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View Full Version : If KD leads OkC to a championship, is he looked on a being best player in the NBA?



LJEATON26
05-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Say Broussard comment on ESPN. Wondered everyone elses opinion.

gatkins11
05-16-2012, 09:53 PM
Probably not, even though his offensive game is great he won't be considered the best because he's not nearly as good defensively as LeBron.

mdm692
05-16-2012, 10:00 PM
He should be specially if he dominates and gets finals mvp.

Showtime Steve
05-16-2012, 10:02 PM
Westbrook is dominating more than durant is right now

eibbor
05-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Well stats aren't everything, otherwise GOAT would go Wilt then maybe Oscar... However, I don't think he is there defensively. With all that said tho, what OKC has to do to get it done this year would be crazy. Definitely will elevate his stature. OKC is crazy good with pieces in the right places.

LTBaByyy
05-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Unless he changes his name to Lebron James or plays some defense

He has the Dirk Syndrome, elite offense and average defense

He will always be 3-8 best player in his career

hineswardfan
05-16-2012, 10:16 PM
I'd say he's tied with LBJ in my books.

THE GIPPER
05-16-2012, 10:20 PM
Durant's supporting cast >>> Lebron's supporting cast so for Durant to dethrone Lebron he'll have to be really, really impressive and Lebron will have to be underwhelming.

If OKC wins it all this year the media will probably portray Durant as the best player in the world but winning doesn't mean player A is better than player B. For example, Dirk last year is equal to Dirk the year before. Just because he won doesn't mean he's better, he just had more team success.

JordansBulls
05-16-2012, 10:22 PM
It would mean he won the title and scoring title same year. The only players to do that were hands down the best.

2000 Shaq
MJ 1991-1993, 1996-1998
1971 Kareem

llemon
05-16-2012, 10:22 PM
Say Broussard comment on ESPN. Wondered everyone elses opinion.

Look at him however you like.

THE GIPPER
05-16-2012, 10:31 PM
It would mean he won the title and scoring title same year. The only players to do that were hands down the best.

2000 Shaq
MJ 1991-1993, 1996-1998
1971 Kareem

Just because someone wins both in the same season doesnt mean they're the best player in the league. What if OKC wins the title but Westbrook is finals MVP?


Also Shaq and Kareem both won regular season MVP in those years and Jordan won it in 4 out of the 6 years he lead the league in scoring.

meloman1592
05-16-2012, 10:36 PM
No..he is not better than lebron

bucketss
05-16-2012, 10:42 PM
dirk wasn't so idk maybe if he goes off and lebron lays a huge embarrassing egg.

LTBaByyy
05-16-2012, 10:43 PM
He doesn't play defense! Dirk was never considered the best in the NBA

He might have been considered the 2nd best or 3rd best at some point but never the best

Don't say because he won MVP, Rose wasn't the best player last year

It was still Lebron, Rose was just the most valuable

Durant is the same as Dirk in the peak of his prime to me playing style

Avenged
05-16-2012, 10:43 PM
Ehh.. Durant's roster is just so good top to bottom.

Lebron you only have 3 great players.

I'd say he would be right on par with him.. Winning championships when you're playing at a high level does boost anyone up in my eyes.

If Lebron were to win one this season then same thing, he'd separate himself even more.

JordansBulls
05-16-2012, 10:54 PM
Just because someone wins both in the same season doesnt mean they're the best player in the league. What if OKC wins the title but Westbrook is finals MVP?


Also Shaq and Kareem both won regular season MVP in those years and Jordan won it in 4 out of the 6 years he lead the league in scoring.

It says if KD leads OKC to a championship so obviously that means he wins finals mvp since he didn't win the season mvp.

JordansBulls
05-16-2012, 10:56 PM
He doesn't play defense! Dirk was never considered the best in the NBA

He might have been considered the 2nd best or 3rd best at some point but never the best

Don't say because he won MVP, Rose wasn't the best player last year

It was still Lebron, Rose was just the most valuable

Durant is the same as Dirk in the peak of his prime to me playing style

Dirk was the clear best last season. Only allstar on his team and outplayed Lebron when they met head to head and upset them as well. Beat 3 teams that had an all nba 1st team member, and 2nd team member and beat the two teams that were favorite from the get go.

If you are saying Dirk wasn't the best because he doesn't play defense than neither were Bird or Magic or even Shaq.

naps
05-16-2012, 10:58 PM
Ehh.. Durant's roster is just so good top to bottom.

Lebron you only have 3 great players.

I'd say he would be right on par with him.. Winning championships when you're playing at a high level does boost anyone up in my eyes.

If Lebron were to win one this season then same thing, he'd separate himself even more.

THIS.


LeBron is way too dominant on both ends. OKC as a team is much better than Miami. Miami is a team of three great players and nothing else. OKC is a team of 4 great players and bunch of magnificent role players who step up when needed. Give some credits to Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. It's not just Durant. OKC is my favorite along with Spurs to win it all.

And I love how OP put NO and Someone else is better as poll options. Aren't these two essentially mean same? Yeah, so you wanted to see more Yes out of all three when other two basically mean the same. Smart

qwerty123
05-17-2012, 02:36 AM
No but derek fisher might be looked as the best six rings lol

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-17-2012, 03:01 AM
People will say it. KD won't be the best if he wins a Title. It'll be like Dirk last year... Dirks been puttin up the same great #'s for 10 years....

Baller1
05-17-2012, 03:05 AM
Not the best basketball player, that is Lebron by far.

But the argument would be there as the best overall player in the league. That probably doesn't make sense, but I don't know how else to put it. Basically, we've seen the way many people value winning, late game heroics, and leadership... So in that regard, I can see Durant being viewed as the best.

Like I said though, it's clear who the best, most talented basketball player in the NBA is; easily Lebron.

Evolution23
05-17-2012, 03:10 AM
are we really making excuses for Lebron's lack of talent now? It's not enough to have Wade and Bosh?

Becks2307
05-17-2012, 08:07 AM
If Durant beats the Heat in the Finals then he is the best player in the NBA

Not really, but he will be.

if that makes sense.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 08:15 AM
Only if you overvalue rings, which many of you and the media or general fan do.

Teams win rings. Teams with the most talent. The Thunder would stand atop the talent level for TEAMS.

Whomewhome
05-17-2012, 08:18 AM
Let me rephrase the question.

If KD wins a championship, will he be the best player since MJ?

Becks2307
05-17-2012, 08:26 AM
Only if you overvalue rings, which many of you and the media or general fan do.

Teams win rings. Teams with the most talent. The Thunder would stand atop the talent level for TEAMS.

After we gave Lebron a pass for all those years with Cleveland, he won't get one for losing with another top 5 player. it just won't happen. Not saying its right but its true.

Just saying in the grand scheme of things, if Durant wins a title this year, he will be considered better than Lebron

BobbyHillSwag
05-17-2012, 08:45 AM
no he can never be the best, people have too much of an agenda to push lebron as the best. Dude is a fraud just a stat sheet stuffer and he wouldn't be nearly as good if he didn't get to literally maul his defender on every play. Still a great player though, just overrated out the ***. Anyway, Durant if the media wants durant to be the best player he will be. Idiots go off what the media tells you

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-17-2012, 08:51 AM
lol no

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 09:27 AM
After we gave Lebron a pass for all those years with Cleveland, he won't get one for losing with another top 5 player. it just won't happen. Not saying its right but its true.

Just saying in the grand scheme of things, if Durant wins a title this year, he will be considered better than Lebron

Durant will not be considered better than LeBron in my book until he is actually the better player. This isn't tennis, where a championship clearly defines who is better. The better TEAM wins a championship in basketball. I will never, in my life, buy measuring individuals by team accomplishments.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 09:30 AM
LeBron nut huggers lining up to make excuses.

Simple answer. Yes.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 09:31 AM
no he can never be the best, people have too much of an agenda to push lebron as the best. Dude is a fraud just a stat sheet stuffer and he wouldn't be nearly as good if he didn't get to literally maul his defender on every play. Still a great player though, just overrated out the ***. Anyway, Durant if the media wants durant to be the best player he will be. Idiots go off what the media tells you

^^This

Da Knicks
05-17-2012, 09:32 AM
Durant and Lebron are pretty equal to me, Lebron better defender Durant better scorer. In the clutch i go with Durant, drawing fouls they both get the benefit of the whistle and i would probably be more at ease with Durant shooting the free throws.

mjm07
05-17-2012, 09:35 AM
Dirk was the clear best last season. Only allstar on his team and outplayed Lebron when they met head to head and upset them as well. Beat 3 teams that had an all nba 1st team member, and 2nd team member and beat the two teams that were favorite from the get go.

If you are saying Dirk wasn't the best because he doesn't play defense than neither were Bird or Magic or even Shaq.

Dirk is a great player but not in the same level of Bird, Shaq ( both 3 x All defensive team ) and Magic. GTFOH with that talk.

Your dislike for LBJ is so obvious.

Anyway, Durant is a special and great player, Top 3 with out a doubt. If OKC wins a championship id say he's 1b and Lebron 1a b/c winning a championship does enhance a players status IMO especially since Durant is the best player on that team. But LBJ is still the better player now and until Durant becomes at least more involved defensively. That the only thing stoping him from being the best.

Good thing for him he's only 22. Scary.

mjm07
05-17-2012, 09:38 AM
no he can never be the best, people have too much of an agenda to push lebron as the best. Dude is a fraud just a stat sheet stuffer and he wouldn't be nearly as good if he didn't get to literally maul his defender on every play. Still a great player though, just overrated out the ***. Anyway, Durant if the media wants durant to be the best player he will be. Idiots go off what the media tells you

And pple like you are the complete opposite who dislike LBJ for every good/bad thing he says.

;)

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 09:46 AM
Once LeBron and the Heat sign D12, CPIII, Eric Gordon, Kevin Love, Andrew Bynum and claim Stephon Curry off waivers then we can say LeBron will be considered GOAT.

Right now it is unfair to say KD is better b/c his team is sooooooooo stacked with talent everywhere. Makes the 60s Celtics look like d-bag YMCA players.

You put LeBron and the Big 2 plus those guys they will sign for Vet Min and no doubt LeBron will single handedly win not 1/2/3 but 62 Championships and retire GOAT. LeBron will finally have the talent around him to prove his greatness. He can facilitate his team to AWESOMENESS so much so he can likely do it from his locker at the AAA. He will mind meld and get his team to AWESOMENESS and prove his greatness.

KD can suck it.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 09:55 AM
quick refresher on how Durant and his teammates are playing

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2012.html

4 players (their top 4 in minutes) with a PER over 20, with Westbrook over Durant, and Harden right with them, all around a PER of 26. Look at the WS/48 on these guys. When your top 4 players are all over .200 WS/48, you are going to mow through teams. Durant doesn't even have a clear cut case as being the best player on his team in the playoffs.

Now, lets look at the Heat

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2012.html

LeBron with a PER of 31.9, and WS/48 of .348, BLOWING AWAY everyone in the playoffs. Wade is underperforming, with a PER of 23.8, and shooting a subpar 51.4 TS% (sure as hell not playing anything like a top 5 player in the playoffs, including going freelance when they don't need him to). Bosh has played well, he is now out. Next best player? 3 way tie between Chalmers, Battier, and Anthony, all coming in at a waaaaaaay under average PER of 11 or far below.

LeBron is being forced to carry it all again. Durant hasn't even established himself as the best player in these playoffs on his own team.

So, while the Bron haters will look at it as excuses, Durant clearly has the superior roster around his so far these playoffs, and unless 2 of Harden/Westbrook/Ibaka go down, its not even a remote comparison.

How can a guy not even the best player on his own team through the playoffs be better than a guy who has been the best player in the NBA for 5 years, and is yet again killing it in the playoffs with his help fading by the minute?

Durant needs to play a **** ton better to even bring this subject up without looking like a complete Bron hater.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 09:58 AM
quick refresher on how Durant and his teammates are playing

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2012.html

4 players (their top 4 in minutes) with a PER over 20, with Westbrook over Durant, and Harden right with them, all around a PER of 26. Look at the WS/48 on these guys. When your top 4 players are all over .200 WS/48, you are going to mow through teams. Durant doesn't even have a clear cut case as being the best player on his team in the playoffs.

Now, lets look at the Heat

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2012.html

LeBron with a PER of 31.9, and WS/48 of .348, BLOWING AWAY everyone in the playoffs. Wade is underperforming, with a PER of 23.8, and shooting a subpar 51.4 TS% (sure as hell not playing anything like a top 5 player in the playoffs, including going freelance when they don't need him to). Bosh has played well, he is now out. Next best player? 3 way tie between Chalmers, Battier, and Anthony, all coming in at a waaaaaaay under average PER of 11 or far below.

LeBron is being forced to carry it all again. Durant hasn't even established himself as the best player in these playoffs on his own team.

So, while the Bron haters will look at it as excuses, Durant clearly has the superior roster around his so far these playoffs, and unless 2 of Harden/Westbrook/Ibaka go down, its not even a remote comparison.

How can a guy not even the best player on his own team through the playoffs be better than a guy who has been the best player in the NBA for 5 years, and is yet again killing it in the playoffs with his help fading by the minute?

Durant needs to play a **** ton better to even bring this subject up without looking like a complete Bron hater.

Here go the stats that are near meaningless for playoff basketball.

Durant hits the go ahead bucket and is able to get the ball even with the D focused on him.

LeBron sets pick for Mario Chalmers and sits around waiting for Mario to hit a fade away three for the tie.

Compile stats all you want. In the playoffs you have to beat good teams and that means coming up big when it counts at the end of games.

LeBron nut huggers can diddle the stats all they want. He is not a GOAT or even the best in the NBA right now .... as long as best means winning RINGS.

But dunking on Toronto in march -- he is awesome.

JasonJohnHorn
05-17-2012, 10:01 AM
I voted yes, not because I think he is the best, but because I think he will be viewed as such. Let's face it, Durant's best teammate is likely Westbrook, then Harden. James gets Wade and Bosh. I think James has teammates with more talent than does Durant, so since, Durant winning it would mean James didn't, I think he would be viewed by many as being better because he was able to win with less. No disrespect intended to Westbrook and Harden, but lets face it, as good as Harden is, he ain't no Wade. And as good as Westbrook is, he doesn't rank as high at his position as Bosh does.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 10:05 AM
I voted yes, not because I think he is the best, but because I think he will be viewed as such. Let's face it, Durant's best teammate is likely Westbrook, then Harden. James gets Wade and Bosh. I think James has teammates with more talent than does Durant, so since, Durant winning it would mean James didn't, I think he would be viewed by many as being better because he was able to win with less. No disrespect intended to Westbrook and Harden, but lets face it, as good as Harden is, he ain't no Wade. And as good as Westbrook is, he doesn't rank as high at his position as Bosh does.

Nooooooooooooooo. LeBron does it all by himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He needs 29 Year Old Kareem, 28 Year Old Karl Malone, 30 year old Michael Jordan and 25 year old Isaiah Thomas to come back and play along side him so he can become GOAT!!

If LeBron had those guys he'd be universally called GOAT. Then he can have Bosh and Wade come off the bench cuz they are scrubs.

b@llhog24
05-17-2012, 10:23 AM
It would mean he won the title and scoring title same year. The only players to do that were hands down the best.

2000 Shaq
MJ 1991-1993, 1996-1998
1971 Kareem

Most pointless post in this thread.


Durant and Lebron are pretty equal to me, Lebron better defender Durant better scorer. In the clutch i go with Durant, drawing fouls they both get the benefit of the whistle and i would probably be more at ease with Durant shooting the free throws.
Since you want to make it cut and dry

Durant's Offense>Lebron's (this still isn't true but whatever)
Lebron's Defense>>Durant's



I voted yes, not because I think he is the best, but because I think he will be viewed as such. Let's face it, Durant's best teammate is likely Westbrook, then Harden. James gets Wade and Bosh. I think James has teammates with more talent than does Durant, so since, Durant winning it would mean James didn't, I think he would be viewed by many as being better because he was able to win with less. No disrespect intended to Westbrook and Harden, but lets face it, as good as Harden is, he ain't no Wade. And as good as Westbrook is, he doesn't rank as high at his position as Bosh does.

I think this is what will happen.

mjm07
05-17-2012, 10:23 AM
Nooooooooooooooo. LeBron does it all by himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He needs 29 Year Old Kareem, 28 Year Old Karl Malone, 30 year old Michael Jordan and 25 year old Isaiah Thomas to come back and play along side him so he can become GOAT!!

If LeBron had those guys he'd be universally called GOAT. Then he can have Bosh and Wade come off the bench cuz they are scrubs.

I don't think we can afford all of them under the current CBA. :shrug:


:pity:

b@llhog24
05-17-2012, 10:24 AM
As for a response to the OP, He will NOT be the best player but I'd move him up my personal rankings to #2 though.

Baller1
05-17-2012, 10:28 AM
quick refresher on how Durant and his teammates are playing

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2012.html

4 players (their top 4 in minutes) with a PER over 20, with Westbrook over Durant, and Harden right with them, all around a PER of 26. Look at the WS/48 on these guys. When your top 4 players are all over .200 WS/48, you are going to mow through teams. Durant doesn't even have a clear cut case as being the best player on his team in the playoffs.

Now, lets look at the Heat

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2012.html

LeBron with a PER of 31.9, and WS/48 of .348, BLOWING AWAY everyone in the playoffs. Wade is underperforming, with a PER of 23.8, and shooting a subpar 51.4 TS% (sure as hell not playing anything like a top 5 player in the playoffs, including going freelance when they don't need him to). Bosh has played well, he is now out. Next best player? 3 way tie between Chalmers, Battier, and Anthony, all coming in at a waaaaaaay under average PER of 11 or far below.

LeBron is being forced to carry it all again. Durant hasn't even established himself as the best player in these playoffs on his own team.

So, while the Bron haters will look at it as excuses, Durant clearly has the superior roster around his so far these playoffs, and unless 2 of Harden/Westbrook/Ibaka go down, its not even a remote comparison.

How can a guy not even the best player on his own team through the playoffs be better than a guy who has been the best player in the NBA for 5 years, and is yet again killing it in the playoffs with his help fading by the minute?

Durant needs to play a **** ton better to even bring this subject up without looking like a complete Bron hater.

You know I'm a fan of stats Hawk, so I'm not even all that inclined to argue with this. But I will say this... Durant has now hit two game winners and been a pretty dominant player in the fourth quarter from what I can remember in this postseason. IF, and I mean if, Indiana pulls it out against Miami in this series, that's going to fall right back on those free throws missed by Lebron (and Wade's missed layup/jumpers as well).

Like I said, I don't disagree with you because the stats make it clear who the best player is... But when it comes down to it, there are still other ways to compare players, late game heroics being one of them.

the_jon
05-17-2012, 10:35 AM
You mean if Derek Fisher leads okc to a championship...

THE GIPPER
05-17-2012, 10:36 AM
This whole thread is a bit of an overreaction to Miami losing game 2 and OKC going up 2-0. Miami could easily be the team up 2-0 if anyone other than Wade and Bron would have contributed even slightly. After Wade and Bron, the next highest scorer on MIA had 5pts.

As for OKC they could easily be tied 1-1. Game 1 they shot the lights out and the Lakers had no chance. In game 2 I thought the Lakers outplayed the Thunder the entire game until Kobe screwed the pooch at the end of the 4th quarter.

So pretty much PSD is overreacting to the most recent event (shocker) and we should just chill and let it play out.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 10:37 AM
This whole thread is a bit of an overreaction to Miami losing game 2 and OKC going up 2-0. Miami could easily be the team up 2-0 if anyone other than Wade and Bron would have contributed even slightly. After Wade and Bron, the next highest scorer on MIA had 5pts.

As for OKC they could easily be tied 1-1. Game 1 they shot the lights out and the Lakers had no chance. In game 2 I thought the Lakers outplayed the Thunder the entire game until Kobe screwed the pooch at the end of the 4th quarter.

So pretty much PSD is overreacting to the most recent event (shocker) and we should just chill and let it play out.

Indy could also be up 2-0.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 10:38 AM
Dirk is a great player but not in the same level of Bird, Shaq ( both 3 x All defensive team ) and Magic. GTFOH with that talk.

Your dislike for LBJ is so obvious.

Anyway, Durant is a special and great player, Top 3 with out a doubt. If OKC wins a championship id say he's 1b and Lebron 1a b/c winning a championship does enhance a players status IMO especially since Durant is the best player on that team. But LBJ is still the better player now and until Durant becomes at least more involved defensively. That the only thing stoping him from being the best.

Good thing for him he's only 22. Scary.

Dirk was clearly the best player last year once you factor in both season and playoffs. Upset the two teams that were favorite and was the only allstar on his team and outplayed both Kobe and Lebron in the matchups. Only other player in the running is Wade who played well in the finals.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 10:39 AM
You know I'm a fan of stats Hawk, so I'm not even all that inclined to argue with this. But I will say this... Durant has now hit two game winners and been a pretty dominant player in the fourth quarter from what I can remember in this postseason. IF, and I mean if, Indiana pulls it out against Miami in this series, that's going to fall right back on those free throws missed by Lebron (and Wade's missed layup/jumpers as well).

Like I said, I don't disagree with you because the stats make it clear who the best player is... But when it comes down to it, there are still other ways to compare players, late game heroics being one of them.

My overall point is, how can we give Durant credit for the Thunder's play entirely when he has had 2 others balling out of their minds, and Ibaka showing up in a big way, while LeBron, despite having to carry the Heat, and having his big man go down while Wade underperforms gets all this heat for not winning?

Who was responsible for that run late? Wasn't just Durant. If LeBron doesn't bring his "A" game every night, his team gets beat up. The same can't be said for Durant.

It will forever be the clear misunderstanding on how to evaluate individuals in a team sport. If Bosh doesn't return, and Wade continues to play like he has no business being called a top 5 player, while the rest of the Heat suck as usual, LeBron will have to go Superman, not seen in modern basketball to win a title, while Durant just needs his guys to keep playing the exact same way they have been.

Look, LeBron asked for this. I am not making excuses. I am simply saying no matter how many of you want to think since he has Wade, and had Bosh that they were unbeatable, the fact is if one of them went down, and they now relied on contributions from the rest of THAT roster, there would be problems.

Durant needs to up his game ten fold to even bring this subject up in a legit way.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 10:41 AM
Most pointless post in this thread.

.

Except whatever you just stated was an opinion while what I mentioned was an absolute fact.


Also consider the following:
Is 18% a good percentage?
In what you might ask... 18% winning percentage...
Pretty awful right?
Well in 60 years of NBA Basketball only 11 league leading scorers have won a championship... That's 18.333333%...
Their names are: Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, George Mikan and some guy named Joe Fulks...

If Durant wins the title he would be the only other wing other than MJ to win scoring title and title same season.

b@llhog24
05-17-2012, 10:50 AM
Except whatever you just stated was an opinion while what I mentioned was an absolute fact.


Also consider the following:
Is 18% a good percentage?
In what you might ask... 18% winning percentage...
Pretty awful right?
Well in 60 years of NBA Basketball only 11 league leading scorers have won a championship... That's 18.333333%...
Their names are: Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, George Mikan and some guy named Joe Fulks...

If Durant wins the title he would be the only other wing other than MJ to win scoring title and title same season.

:laugh2: I'm not even going to waste my time.

BobbyHillSwag
05-17-2012, 11:28 AM
And pple like you are the complete opposite who dislike LBJ for every good/bad thing he says.

;)

I dont dislike lebron for things he says i only care about his play on the court not all that media driven bs. His play on the court shows me he is vastly overrated because he fills up the boxscore. He's great but not nearly as great as people make him out to be.

b@llhog24
05-17-2012, 11:37 AM
I dont dislike lebron for things he says i only care about his play on the court not all that media driven bs. His play on the court shows me he is vastly overrated because he fills up the boxscore. He's great but not nearly as great as people make him out to be.

I noticed you said he isn't the best player, so who do you have ranked over him out of curiosity?

WeCameAsRomans
05-17-2012, 11:48 AM
If Durant and Lebron dance in the finals Durant will come out on top.

Reasons why
1. Thunder have a deeper roster than Miami.
2. Thunder have a better scoring trio.
3. Thunder have big men that are healthy and can contribute on both sides of the floor.
4. Thunder rebound the ball better than Miami.
5. Thunder have stars who show up for 4 quarters.
6. Thunder are longer, more atheltic, and have more energy than Miami.

The door is wide open for the Thunder to win a championship this year.

LongIslandIcedZ
05-17-2012, 11:49 AM
If Kevin Durant wins the Finals MVP and Lebron gets bounced by Indiana after a poor showing, many people will look to Lebron as the best player in basketball. I dont believe that to be the case, because Lebrons effort on both sides of the court are unmatched. The media cares about rings, whether it is the right or wrong way to judge a player, thats just how it is. I do think it would make KD the 2nd best player in the league, if he isnt there already.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 11:50 AM
If Durant and Lebron dance in the finals Durant will come out on top.

Reasons why
1. Thunder have a deeper roster than Miami.
2. Thunder have a better scoring trio.
3. Thunder have big men that are healthy and can contribute on both sides of the floor.
4. Thunder rebound the ball better than Miami.
5. Thunder have stars who show up for 4 quarters.

The door is wide open for the Thunder to win a championship this year.

Yep. Nowhere here did I read its because Durant is better than LeBron. If the Thunder beat the Heat, it has zero with Durant being better.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 11:51 AM
If Kevin Durant wins the Finals MVP and Lebron gets bounced by Indiana after a poor showing, many people will look to Lebron as the best player in basketball. I dont believe that to be the case, because Lebrons effort on both sides of the court are unmatched. The media cares about rings, whether it is the right or wrong way to judge a player, thats just how it is. I do think it would make KD the 2nd best player in the league, if he isnt there already.

so far, he is stud LeBron. Point to his missed FT's, but over the course of the series and the playoffs, LeBron is dominating like no other player.

I agree with the rest completely.

WeCameAsRomans
05-17-2012, 11:56 AM
Yep. Nowhere here did I read its because Durant is better than LeBron. If the Thunder beat the Heat, it has zero with Durant being better.

If Bosh doesn't return, Lebron will have to play the Power Foward position. Playing the 4 spot is to taxing on Lebron, which will evetually lead to the Heat's downfall. When Lebron plays the 4 spot he struggles because he plays so many minutes. No depth will lead to Lebron being sluggish and tired reslting in the Heat's downfall.

BobbyHillSwag
05-17-2012, 11:59 AM
I actually have lebron as best player in the league, but the rankings is not what bothers me because he def has a great case of best player in the league. It's just when all espn does is talk about him like he is the best player ever and should have no flaws and gets on him when he is not clutch. Who cares? the dude is a beast everyone has flaws, stop tryna make him something he is not. The point is we know he is the best player in the league but the media doesn't have to push their agenda on us anymore, it's like they're going out of their way to do it. When they want Durant to be the best player in the league he will be whether he really is or not. It's just how they work and it is ********. Im not tryna hate on lebron im just saying they are pushing him on everyone too much.

btw my grammar and sentence structure sucks so don't go hard on me lol

WeCameAsRomans
05-17-2012, 12:02 PM
I actually have lebron as best player in the league, but the rankings is not what bothers me because he def has a great case of best player in the league. It's just when all espn does is talk about him like he is the best player ever and should have no flaws and gets on him when he is not clutch. Who cares? the dude is a beast everyone has flaws, stop tryna make him something he is not. The point is we know he is the best player in the league but the media doesn't have to push their agenda on us anymore, it's like they're going out of their way to do it. When they want Durant to be the best player in the league he will be whether he really is or not. It's just how they work and it is ********. Im not tryna hate on lebron im just saying they are pushing him on everyone too much.

btw my grammar and sentence structure sucks so don't go hard on me lol
Lebron isn't the best player in my opinion, however he is the most talented.

LongIslandIcedZ
05-17-2012, 12:02 PM
If Kevin Durant wins the Finals MVP and Lebron gets bounced by Indiana after a poor showing, many people will look to Lebron as the best player in basketball. I dont believe that to be the case, because Lebrons effort on both sides of the court are unmatched. The media cares about rings, whether it is the right or wrong way to judge a player, thats just how it is. I do think it would make KD the 2nd best player in the league, if he isnt there already.

so far, he is stud LeBron. Point to his missed FT's, but over the course of the series and the playoffs, LeBron is dominating like no other player.

I agree with the rest completely.

Lebron is playing extremely well, but in the eyes of a lot of people he is not playing well enough. I understand and somewhat agree with both sides of the argument. Without Lebron, Miami wouldn't even compete. But at the same time, when you want all the glitz and glamour you need to hit clutch shots. I can't give Lebron a pass for missing the FT's based on what he did the rest of the game.

Just my. 02

Corndog
05-17-2012, 12:05 PM
Durant could eventually unseed LeBron and Kobe in the future, his defense and overall game need work, no doubt. LeBron is the best overall player in the NBA. But LeBron's continual choking in the playoffs and Durant last night proved he could make a clutch score, driving down the lane, going around nearly every defender on the Lakers. I usually don't say the best player should be determined on championships, but in the NBA it is a huge weighing factor, and the media always factors it in. If OKC wins the championship, I wouldn't be surprised if it comes up. I think it's a little early for him.

As far as LeBron fans complaining about OKC having a better team, um this is what LeBron wanted. He had opportunities to go to more complete teams, OKC just did what the Bulls did with Jordan and Lakers with Kobe, put a great team around their star player.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 12:17 PM
:laugh2: I'm not even going to waste my time.

That's because there is no counter to it. Those are facts. Prove me wrong.:)

Heatcheck
05-17-2012, 12:20 PM
offensively, he's just as good. defensively...not so much, lebrons a beast on defense.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 12:22 PM
If Bosh doesn't return, Lebron will have to play the Power Foward position. Playing the 4 spot is to taxing on Lebron, which will evetually lead to the Heat's downfall. When Lebron plays the 4 spot he struggles because he plays so many minutes. No depth will lead to Lebron being sluggish and tired reslting in the Heat's downfall.

It's not just that, its the fact that the Heat are now down to 2 capable players to battle real teams. No chance when they face either the huge firepower of the Thunder or the trees of San Antonio.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 12:40 PM
quick refresher on how Durant and his teammates are playing

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2012.html

4 players (their top 4 in minutes) with a PER over 20, with Westbrook over Durant, and Harden right with them, all around a PER of 26. Look at the WS/48 on these guys. When your top 4 players are all over .200 WS/48, you are going to mow through teams. Durant doesn't even have a clear cut case as being the best player on his team in the playoffs.

Now, lets look at the Heat

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2012.html

LeBron with a PER of 31.9, and WS/48 of .348, BLOWING AWAY everyone in the playoffs. Wade is underperforming, with a PER of 23.8, and shooting a subpar 51.4 TS% (sure as hell not playing anything like a top 5 player in the playoffs, including going freelance when they don't need him to). Bosh has played well, he is now out. Next best player? 3 way tie between Chalmers, Battier, and Anthony, all coming in at a waaaaaaay under average PER of 11 or far below.

LeBron is being forced to carry it all again. Durant hasn't even established himself as the best player in these playoffs on his own team.

So, while the Bron haters will look at it as excuses, Durant clearly has the superior roster around his so far these playoffs, and unless 2 of Harden/Westbrook/Ibaka go down, its not even a remote comparison.

How can a guy not even the best player on his own team through the playoffs be better than a guy who has been the best player in the NBA for 5 years, and is yet again killing it in the playoffs with his help fading by the minute?

Durant needs to play a **** ton better to even bring this subject up without looking like a complete Bron hater.

Durant is averaging 26/8/4 on 48% FG while playing the same mpg as Lebron
Lebron is averaging 28/8/5 on 47% FG

Then you figure the Thunder have not lost a game yet in the playoffs despite playing the superior competition.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 12:41 PM
offensively, he's just as good. defensively...not so much, lebrons a beast on defense.

You must have missed when they put Durant on Kobe yesterday the last few minutes.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 12:45 PM
Durant is averaging 26/8/4 on 48% FG while playing the same mpg as Lebron
Lebron is averaging 28/8/5 on 47% FG

Then you figure the Thunder have not lost a game yet in the playoffs despite playing the superior competition.

sure, ignore their efficiency levels and the fact Bron guards the other teams best perimeter scorer. Or ignore the fact that Durant is getting ridiculous contributions from 3 other teammates.

JB, you tried to sell me for years that a fat Big Z and Shaq corpse tandem was real help for LeBron, so pardon me for not really wanting to get into how you choose to evaluate LeBron James, or give credit to individuals for their team performing well above expecatations versus well below.

BobbyHillSwag
05-17-2012, 12:56 PM
sure, ignore their efficiency levels and the fact Bron mauls the other teams best perimeter scorer. Or ignore the fact that Durant is getting ridiculous contributions from 3 other teammates.

JB, you tried to sell me for years that a fat Big Z and Shaq corpse tandem was real help for LeBron, so pardon me for not really wanting to get into how you choose to evaluate LeBron James, or give credit to individuals for their team performing well above expecatations versus well below.

dude gets away with everything on defense

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 01:03 PM
sure, ignore their efficiency levels and the fact Bron guards the other teams best perimeter scorer. Or ignore the fact that Durant is getting ridiculous contributions from 3 other teammates.

JB, you tried to sell me for years that a fat Big Z and Shaq corpse tandem was real help for LeBron, so pardon me for not really wanting to get into how you choose to evaluate LeBron James, or give credit to individuals for their team performing well above expecatations versus well below.

Or ignore the fact one guy has a guy who is arguably a better playoff performer than he himself and who shows up on the highest stage and who is a proven winner as the best player on his team.
Not to mention the level of competition that Durant has faced is greater than what Lebron has faced or will face in the East.

Chronz
05-17-2012, 01:24 PM
Or ignore the fact one guy has a guy who is arguably a better playoff performer than he himself and who shows up on the highest stage and who is a proven winner as the best player on his team.
LOL let us know when Wade starts playing that way. As of now Durant has 2 teammates playing better than Wade. Then theres Ibaka, oh god


Not to mention the level of competition that Durant has faced is greater than what Lebron has faced or will face in the East.
True, doesnt offset the chasm in talent thus far

THE GIPPER
05-17-2012, 01:26 PM
Durant is averaging 26/8/4 on 48% FG while playing the same mpg as Lebron
Lebron is averaging 28/8/5 on 47% FG

Then you figure the Thunder have not lost a game yet in the playoffs despite playing the superior competition.

ohhhh JB issa sooo smaaaaaaawwwt

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 02:25 PM
the Big 3 in Miami went from never losing two game in a row to now there are 2-3 better teams in the NBA b/c of 1 injury to the third best player on the Team.

LeBron nut huggers in full force..

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 02:27 PM
LeBron nut huggers, I thought he was so good b/c he made his teammates better unlike Melo.

So why does his team now suck?

Heatcheck
05-17-2012, 02:45 PM
Or ignore the fact one guy has a guy who is arguably a better playoff performer than he himself and who shows up on the highest stage and who is a proven winner as the best player on his team.
Not to mention the level of competition that Durant has faced is greater than what Lebron has faced or will face in the East.

whats this highest stage? if you mean the playoffs (which i think this is as far as durants ever gotten), im pretty sure lebron showed up against bulls last year, in an even bigger stage, ask Deng.

Heatcheck
05-17-2012, 02:48 PM
You must have missed when they put Durant on Kobe yesterday the last few minutes.

no but i saw troy hudson lose his mind for a whole playoff series, and i didnt think he was any better an offensive player after that either.

.

KnicksorBust
05-17-2012, 02:51 PM
Dirk, a former MVP, leads the Mavericks to a championship and the vast majority still ranked LeBron as the best player in the league.

Durant would be a similar situation.

PLAYERS FAN
05-17-2012, 02:59 PM
If you consider Duncan the best player over Shaq, after winning the title in 99, I don't see why Durant shouldn't consider the best, if he win it this year.

D12 fan
05-17-2012, 03:15 PM
Lebron will be the best player in the NBA for the next 3years at least,people need to quit hating on the guy and give him his props.Lebron may not be clutch but he is still clearly the best player in the NBA,Durant on the other hand is now the 2nd best player in the NBA.

Rivera
05-17-2012, 03:23 PM
i already have KD as the best player in the NBA (in my book bron bron #2) so no it wouldnt change to me at least

i will say this though. you think KD gets a lot of passes and you hear alot of KD is the "golden boy" of the NBA....let him win a Chip before LeBron and ESPN/PSD/Media will amplify it 100000x that KD is the best player in the world, that KD took down the Heat by himself (cause russy, harden, ibaka were drafted not signed over) etc etc etc

Soonerule
05-17-2012, 03:30 PM
I love KD, obviously, :rolleyes: , but after watching him since he has been in OKC for almost 4 years I really don't think that is his primary motivation. I'm not sure it is even his 2nd or 3rd top priority. He has said, and I didn't buy it at first, that he doesn't care if he scores a single point as long as the team wins. First time he said something like that I thought 'yeah, and wild monkeys will come flying out your arse anytime now'. And then I see a game like last night and he wanted to get his team going so much he was passing to a shot that was no better than the one he could have taken himself. About the 3rd time he did it I thought I was going to blow a gasket. I screaming at the TV, "TAKE THE SHOT!"

Scotty Brooks even called him on it in the post game interview and Brooks NEVER throws anyone near a tire much less under the bus. So he is still looking for his balance on that.

As has been said, his defense needs work. It's getting better and something he is constantly working on but he hasn't learned to use all of his tools yet.

But if he can add a ring it will bring up his stock dramatically and with Kobe aging and Lebron not being very consistent in the 4th he might have a shot. The sparkle off those championship rings draw a lot of attention. But that little word "if" is the biggest 2 letter word in the dictionary.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 03:54 PM
Or ignore the fact one guy has a guy who is arguably a better playoff performer than he himself and who shows up on the highest stage and who is a proven winner as the best player on his team.
Not to mention the level of competition that Durant has faced is greater than what Lebron has faced or will face in the East.

Well, its not 2006 now, is it? Let me know when Wade shows up to help LeBron, that is the topic of discussion here.

The level of competition the THUNDER have faced is strong. Thank god for Durant while he hasn't really gone beyond his regular season play, Westbrook, Ibaka, and especially Harden have...

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 03:57 PM
Dirk, a former MVP, leads the Mavericks to a championship and the vast majority still ranked LeBron as the best player in the league.

Durant would be a similar situation.

While I agree that in the short term many members of the media and fans thought Dirk was the better player, its easy to see that once this season started, everyone was right back on the LeBron is best train, outside the irrational or LeBron haters.

JasonJohnHorn
05-17-2012, 04:02 PM
Lebron will be the best player in the NBA for the next 3years at least,people need to quit hating on the guy and give him his props.Lebron may not be clutch but he is still clearly the best player in the NBA,Durant on the other hand is now the 2nd best player in the NBA.

I don't disagree with you on this. I think LBJ is the best player and will be the best player for some years. But that's not quite what the OP is asking. He's asking if people will see him as being better should he win the title this year, and I think the answer to that is yes. Statistically James will be putting up numbers that nobody can touch unless there is some seriously marked improvement in somebody's game or a rookie comes on the scene like David Robinson did, but outside of that, yes, LBJ will statistically be the best player. But when it comes to winning, there are certain intangibles that come into play, and people will accredit those intangibles with being the reason that Durant is better. People will say: James had Wade and Bosh... all Durant had was Westbrook (who some see as a 'cancer') and Harden, who dress it up as you may, is a bench player. If Durant wins with that, and James doesn't, people will see Durant as a better player....

I mean... imagine if you swapped out Wade and Bosh for Westbrook and Harden, and even throw in Ibaka... how much better would the Thunder be than they are now? And if James can't win without that... well... maybe Durant is a better player.... IF he wins it all this year.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 04:08 PM
Well, its not 2006 now, is it? Let me know when Wade shows up to help LeBron, that is the topic of discussion here.

The level of competition the THUNDER have faced is strong. Thank god for Durant while he hasn't really gone beyond his regular season play, Westbrook, Ibaka, and especially Harden have...

He has shown up he is averaging 27 ppg in this series and let's not forget the finals as well.

Chronz
05-17-2012, 04:18 PM
If you consider Duncan the best player over Shaq, after winning the title in 99, I don't see why Durant shouldn't consider the best, if he win it this year.
Did you? Im very interested on peoples thoughts during this time period before Shaq won.

Lidz
05-17-2012, 04:25 PM
Why would it be any different from LBJ? They both are apart of a big 3. Durant isn't doing it alone. He has another top 5 scorer in the league on his team, LBJ doesn't.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 04:42 PM
Lebron will be the best player in the NBA for the next 3years at least,people need to quit hating on the guy and give him his props.Lebron may not be clutch but he is still clearly the best player in the NBA,Durant on the other hand is now the 2nd best player in the NBA.

Can someone explain that to me. It sounds ignorant to me.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 04:43 PM
Why would it be any different from LBJ? They both are apart of a big 3. Durant isn't doing it alone. He has another top 5 scorer in the league on his team, LBJ doesn't.

LeBron nut huggers complaining LeBron needs a Big 5 to win a Championship.

So, Nash and D12 I guess?

Then LBJ will be GOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 04:46 PM
Maybe the reason LeBron's supporting cast (which was awesome and great up until two days ago) is that LeBron is over rated in terms of BB IQ, does not have a killer instinct and is not quite the floor general people think he is????????

ChicagoJ
05-17-2012, 04:48 PM
LeBron is the best player in the game and will be for a while still.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 04:51 PM
He has shown up he is averaging 27 ppg in this series and let's not forget the finals as well.

Would Miami have ever made the finals without LeBron last year?

51.4% TS. Off rating of 106 in the playoffs so far. That is not worthy of being called a top 5 player. After a subpar Wade, nobody showed up game 2. Not sure why anyone would expect that to change going forward with the Heat roster 4-10.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 04:55 PM
Would Miami have ever made the finals without LeBron last year?

51.4% TS. Off rating of 106 in the playoffs so far. That is not worthy of being called a top 5 player. After a subpar Wade, nobody showed up game 2. Not sure why anyone would expect that to change going forward with the Heat roster 4-10.

Would Dallas have made it without Dirk?

What kind of idiotic reasoning is this?

Maybe Wade is not playing to potential b/c LeBron hogs the ball, puts Wade in bad spots and takes away Wade's sweet spots on the floor. Maybe it is LeBron's fault the supporting cast under achieves with him???? Maybe if he wanted the last shot he would have hit it and gone up 2-0 on Indy?

LeBron, 2-8 in Finals games. Crappy performances too.

D12 fan
05-17-2012, 04:56 PM
Can someone explain that to me. It sounds ignorant to me.

So Magic Johnson was the best player in his era,and he wasn't a clutch player,those championship Lakers team went to Kareem in clutch situations.Yet Magic is considered a top 5 player of alltime,yet Lebron can't be considered the best player because he's not clutch.LMAO

Yet all the nba greats (Magic,Bird,Pippen,Barkley,etc.) even Kobe said this year that Lebron is the best basketball player in the world.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by khaleesi


Would Dallas have made it without Dirk?

nope


What kind of idiotic reasoning is this?

Did you watch the Bulls series, where LeBron had to bail out Miami? Think before you type.


Maybe Wade is not playing to potential b/c LeBron hogs the ball, puts Wade in bad spots and takes away Wade's sweet spots on the floor.

For sure not it, but at least you are reaching, as I see you do in all your posts purely trying to get under peoples skin.




Maybe it is LeBron's fault the supporting cast under achieves with him????

Since its never happened before (see Cleveland), not sure why you would think its happening now. In fact, hasn't LeBron had the highest simple rating in the NBA for a while now? That means statistically he IS the most important player to his team.


Maybe if he wanted the last shot he would have hit it and gone up 2-0 on Indy?

Couldn't tell ya bro.


LeBron, 2-8 in Finals games. Crappy performances too.

The Spurs finals when he was a kid and the Spurs simply put a wall around him, forcing his teammates to perform? In games 3-6 last year, he was inexcusably bad. If you choose to weigh your evaluation on such small sample sizes, not sure what to tell you man.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 05:14 PM
Magic,

20PPG in the playoffs
51% shooter from the field
84% from the line
12 assists per game

Oh yeah and what matters 5 RINGS.

LeBron, 5 points lower on FG% and 10 points lower on FT%. ZERO rings. 2-8 Finals record.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 05:16 PM
nope



Did you watch the Bulls series, where LeBron had to bail out Miami? Think before you type.



For sure not it, but at least you are reaching, as I see you do in all your posts purely trying to get under peoples skin.





Since its never happened before (see Cleveland), not sure why you would think its happening now. In fact, hasn't LeBron had the highest simple rating in the NBA for a while now? That means statistically he IS the most important player to his team.



Couldn't tell ya bro.



The Spurs finals when he was a kid and the Spurs simply put a wall around him, forcing his teammates to perform? In games 3-6 last year, he was inexcusably bad. If you choose to weigh your evaluation on such small sample sizes, not sure what to tell you man.

So in essence he is great b/c you like the STATs he produces for the first 3.5 quarters of games.

I am not trying to get under anyone's skin but fact is LeBron is beyond over rated as a player.

He simply plays small when it matters and that, makes him a talented loser.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 05:18 PM
Would Miami have ever made the finals without LeBron last year?

51.4% TS. Off rating of 106 in the playoffs so far. That is not worthy of being called a top 5 player. After a subpar Wade, nobody showed up game 2. Not sure why anyone would expect that to change going forward with the Heat roster 4-10.

They wouldn't have beaten Chicago without Bosh actually. He averaged 23 and 8 on 60% FG and outplayed Chicago's entire frontcourt. And they wouldn't have beaten Boston without Wade who was better than Lebron in that series as well.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 05:24 PM
D12,

You have no clue how good Magic was. LeBron on his best day can't sniff it.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 05:24 PM
So in essence he is great b/c you like the STATs he produces for the first 3.5 quarters of games.

I am not trying to get under anyone's skin but fact is LeBron is beyond over rated as a player.

He simply plays small when it matters and that, makes him a talented loser.

Nope, I think he is a great player because he is a great player.

The rest of your post doesn't concern my opinion on him, and I haven't seen you provide evidence of your claims, only blanket statements meant to troll.

Selective memory is a funny thing in this world.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 05:28 PM
Nope, I think he is a great player because he is a great player.

The rest of your post doesn't concern my opinion on him, and I haven't seen you provide evidence of your claims, only blanket statements meant to troll.

Selective memory is a funny thing in this world.

He is a very good player. Your stats simply show he dominates the ball versus average talent and teams. The minute the competition gets better, he plays smaller. That is why he is not a GREAT player ........

Larry Bird balled in the Finals.
Magic balled in the Finals
Jordan
Kareem
Moses
Isiaih
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

.... LeBron can't sniff them. He might be more physically talented. Maybe the most physically talented player ever. Maybe. But he plays so teeny tiny little little puny small when it matters.

Like ARod or Mark Texeira in the Playoffs. Puny little and small.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 05:29 PM
They wouldn't have beaten Chicago without Bosh actually. He averaged 23 and 8 on 60% FG and outplayed Chicago's entire frontcourt. And they wouldn't have beaten Boston without Wade who was better than Lebron in that series as well.

I understand all of that. Here is my problem with you in particular. You are never willing to give LeBron the credit he is due, only criticize when him when his teammates fail him. You never recognize when he needs to constantly bail them out. You constantly overrate his Cleveland teams, and use your specific parameters to use your evaluations, and only use infor when it helps your case.

Fact is, you are overlooking the Thunder's top 4 and their production, and trying to cram a false opinion at me. Look at the way Harden, Westbrook, and Ibaka are supporting Durant. Then take their 5-8 guys. There is no comparison about how much better they are playing than LeBron's cast, and now that Bosh is down, it gets even worse for LeBron. He will have to go Superman just to make the finals interesting, outplaying everyone, to win a couple of games if Bosh doesn't return and Wade doesn't actually play like his accepted ranking states. Even then, the Thunder and Spurs have so much more talent up and down, being top heavy at the #1 option isn't going to help the Heat if Bosh isn't 100%, and Wade is ballin'. The Heat set themselves up to be dependant on 3 players playing great all the time. When one goes down, and the other isn't playing his best, they have problems.

khaleesi
05-17-2012, 05:31 PM
Nobody failed LeBron the other night Hawk, he refused to get the ball and preferred to be a screener.

What was his excuse versus the Mavs??

LeBron FAIL.

D12 fan
05-17-2012, 05:33 PM
D12,

You have no clue how good Magic was. LeBron on his best day can't sniff it.

It doesn't matter what I think if Magic Johnson thinks Lebron is the basketball player in the world,I would think it's speaks to how good Lebron is as a player if one of the greats thinks he's the best.

You are just another Lebron hater,and I will not waste my time arguing with you.Have a good day and peace out.:dance2:

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-17-2012, 05:34 PM
So Magic Johnson was the best player in his era,and he wasn't a clutch player,those championship Lakers team went to Kareem in clutch situations.Yet Magic is considered a top 5 player of alltime,yet Lebron can't be considered the best player because he's not clutch.LMAO

Yet all the nba greats (Magic,Bird,Pippen,Barkley,etc.) even Kobe said this year that Lebron is the best basketball player in the world.

How about all those game winners against Boston in the regular season and then that finals game with the baby sky hook?

Oh yes, Kareem bum ankle, and Magic takes over in game 6 of the 80 finals with famous 42pts-15rebs-7asst line, playing all 5 positions.

You're Welcome.

DR_1
05-17-2012, 05:35 PM
Yes. I love how people underrate KD. And I'm not even a Thunder fan and I can see how good he really is.

blastmasta26
05-17-2012, 05:37 PM
Yes. I love how people underrate KD. And I'm not even a Thunder fan and I can see how good he really is.
Underrated or not, a title won't make him better than LeBron when his supporting cast is playing so much better.

justjames
05-17-2012, 05:47 PM
When Durant first came into the league, I figured that he'd leap frog Lebron and replace Kobe as the top player in the game when Kobe is an old man.

Bull Rush
05-17-2012, 05:54 PM
He doesn't play defense! Dirk was never considered the best in the NBA

He might have been considered the 2nd best or 3rd best at some point but never the best

Don't say because he won MVP, Rose wasn't the best player last year

It was still Lebron, Rose was just the most valuable

Durant is the same as Dirk in the peak of his prime to me playing style

Rose= NBA's best player.

Chronz
05-17-2012, 05:55 PM
Plz dont try to blame Bron for Wade's struggles, its true that they get in each others way but between the 2, Bron is the one who opens the game up for Wade more than vice versa.

But that takes us to the crux of the problem, they dont have the same synergy as Bosh and (insert star perimeter player here).

tcav701
05-17-2012, 05:57 PM
just wait untill LeBron gets a better supporting cast.....

Chronz
05-17-2012, 05:58 PM
How about all those game winners against Boston in the regular season and then that finals game with the baby sky hook?

Oh yes, Kareem bum ankle, and Magic takes over in game 6 of the 80 finals with famous 42pts-15rebs-7asst line, playing all 5 positions.

You're Welcome.

Be real, does McHale reject the **** out of that baby hook if hes not playing with a broken foot?

Bull Rush
05-17-2012, 06:00 PM
just wait untill LeBron gets a better supporting cast.....

Why? Did Jordan need one?

tcav701
05-17-2012, 06:02 PM
Why? Did Jordan need one?

I was being sarcastic, get it?

Because Bron has a top 5 player running the wing with him and a top 5 PF and because he has the best 2nd and 3rd option in the NBA and nobody could reasonably expect a better supporting cast than what he has.

Not sure why I am responding to someone who claims Rose is the best player in the league tho.

Bull Rush
05-17-2012, 06:07 PM
I was being sarcastic, get it?

Because Bron has a top 5 player running the wing with him and a top 5 PF and because he has the best 2nd and 3rd option in the NBA and nobody could reasonably expect a better supporting cast than what he has.

Not sure why I am responding to someone who claims Rose is the best player in the league tho.

Why cant Rose be called best player? Because ESPN says so?

tcav701
05-17-2012, 06:09 PM
Why cant Rose be called best player? Because ESPN says so?

LOL

I havent turned on ESPN since Monday Night Football ended. when people come on here and talk about what Skip Bayless said, I know not to take them seriously. So no, its not because of ESPN.

I could rattle of many reasons why Rose is not the best player in the NBA, or even top 5 for that matter but i got a better idea.

Give me one reason why rose is the best player today?

Bull Rush
05-17-2012, 06:17 PM
LOL

I havent turned on ESPN since Monday Night Football ended. when people come on here and talk about what Skip Bayless said, I know not to take them seriously. So no, its not because of ESPN.

I could rattle of many reasons why Rose is not the best player in the NBA, or even top 5 for that matter but i got a better idea.

Give me one reason why rose is the best player today?

OK. everyone has opinion. Why not top 5?

Raph12
05-17-2012, 06:39 PM
Nope... Lebron's still #1.

Sly Guy
05-17-2012, 06:44 PM
Westbrook is dominating more than durant is right now

easy now, westbrook's dominant cuz of his matchup.

lakersfan01
05-17-2012, 06:47 PM
Westbrook > Durant

lakersfan01
05-17-2012, 06:47 PM
King James > the rest of the league.

Becks2307
05-17-2012, 06:52 PM
I can't listen to arguments about Lebron's Supporting Cast. Im sorry you have a top 5 player on your team! WTF!!

Bosh and Wade> Harden and Westbrook.

Raph12
05-17-2012, 07:03 PM
I can't listen to arguments about Lebron's Supporting Cast. Im sorry you have a top 5 player on your team! WTF!!

Bosh and Wade> Harden and Westbrook.

Yes but Ibaka+Perkins+Collison+Sefalosha+Cook >>>>> Haslem+Chalmers+Battier+Cole+Miller

Oh and Harden is more valuable, productive and efficient for the Thunder than Bosh is for the Heat (both as third options); KD does have a better supporting cast.

Alayla
05-17-2012, 07:22 PM
No

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 09:23 PM
I can't listen to arguments about Lebron's Supporting Cast. Im sorry you have a top 5 player on your team! WTF!!

Bosh and Wade> Harden and Westbrook.

not in these playoffs they don't. Bosh isn't even playing anymore. You forgot Ibaka.

Chronz
05-17-2012, 09:55 PM
I can't listen to arguments about Lebron's Supporting Cast. Im sorry you have a top 5 player on your team! WTF!!

Bosh and Wade> Harden and Westbrook.

What Wade have you been watching?

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 10:02 PM
I can't listen to arguments about Lebron's Supporting Cast. Im sorry you have a top 5 player on your team! WTF!!

Bosh and Wade> Harden and Westbrook.

:clap:
Not to mention one was an allstar starter as well and the other an allstar. One guy had 2 other allstar teammates and a guy who performs on the highest stage with a finals mvp as one of the greatest finals performers and playoff performers ever.

Chronz
05-17-2012, 10:14 PM
:clap:
Not to mention one was an allstar starter as well and the other an allstar. One guy had 2 other allstar teammates and a guy who performs on the highest stage with a finals mvp as one of the greatest finals performers and playoff performers ever.
What about this year? That all-star is gone, the wade your thinking about, is gone as well.

Hell Im thinking about going back to review the tape last year to see who exactly Wade dominated in that Finals (My guess is Jason Terry). Seems to me like he always had the benefit of the weaker matchup and fresher legs after Bron had carried the Heat to the Finals.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 10:43 PM
What about this year? That all-star is gone, the wade your thinking about, is gone as well.

Hell Im thinking about going back to review the tape last year to see who exactly Wade dominated in that Finals (My guess is Jason Terry). Seems to me like he always had the benefit of the weaker matchup and fresher legs after Bron had carried the Heat to the Finals.

Is that why Wade was better against Boston and also dominated Jason Terry who in turn dominated Lebron in the finals?

Hawkeye15
05-17-2012, 10:48 PM
Is that why Wade was better against Boston and also dominated Jason Terry who in turn dominated Lebron in the finals?

never saw Terry and Bron matched up.

dtmagnet
05-17-2012, 10:48 PM
He's so young, if a guy that young can lead a team to a championship its hard to say anyone is better than him.

Chronz
05-17-2012, 11:01 PM
Is that why Wade was better against Boston and also dominated Jason Terry who in turn dominated Lebron in the finals?
Wade and Bron were equals against Boston, but Bron did that against Pierce (a better defender). Also you neglect to mention the MINUTES Bron carried while Wade got rest (took the series off vs Chicago).

And dominating Jason Terry is the point Im making. Seems to me Marion spent more time on Bron than Wade. And Bron defending JET is another point in his favor, who was Wade defending?. He did a fantastic job the first 2 games when JET gave him props but after logging 44MPG continuously, I have no doubt it took a toll.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 11:02 PM
never saw Terry and Bron matched up.

Then you need to rewatch the finals my friend because Lebron tried to hold Terry and he couldn't which is probably why he lost his confidence on the other end of the floor as well.

JordansBulls
05-17-2012, 11:05 PM
Wade and Bron were equals against Boston, but Bron did that against Pierce (a better defender). Also you neglect to mention the MINUTES Bron carried while Wade got rest (took the series off vs Chicago).

And dominating Jason Terry is the point Im making. Seems to me Marion spent more time on Bron than Wade. And Bron defending JET is another point in his favor, who was Wade defending?. He did a fantastic job the first 2 games when JET gave him props but after logging 44MPG continuously, I have no doubt it took a toll.

No, Wade was better against Boston than Lebron was.

Wade - 30.2 PPG, 52.3% FG, 7.2 RPG, 4.8 APG, 3.0 TO, 2.0 SPG

Lebron - 28.0 PPG, 46.7% FG, 8.2 RPG, 3.6 APG, 3.4 TO, 1.8 SPG

Chronz
05-17-2012, 11:40 PM
No, Wade was better against Boston than Lebron was.

Wade - 30.2 PPG, 52.3% FG, 7.2 RPG, 4.8 APG, 3.0 TO, 2.0 SPG

Lebron - 28.0 PPG, 46.7% FG, 8.2 RPG, 3.6 APG, 3.4 TO, 1.8 SPG
Your right, Wade was better in 3 of the 5 games. But the gap is closer when you consider the defenders (Ray vs Pierce) and Brons greater responsibility in terms of anchoring his teams defense.

But since thats the only problem you had with my post Im guessing you concede everything else. Good to know your finally see things my way.

JordansBulls
05-18-2012, 12:00 AM
Your right, Wade was better in 3 of the 5 games. But the gap is closer when you consider the defenders (Ray vs Pierce) and Brons greater responsibility in terms of anchoring his teams defense.

But since thats the only problem you had with my post Im guessing you concede everything else. Good to know your finally see things my way.

No Bosh anchored that defense along with Anthony. Not to mention Wade had a tougher matchup in Ray Allen chasing him around while Lebron took the easier matchup in the slower Pierce.

Chronz
05-18-2012, 12:14 AM
No Bosh anchored that defense along with Anthony. Not to mention Wade had a tougher matchup in Ray Allen chasing him around while Lebron took the easier matchup in the slower Pierce.
RLY? So then why wasnt Bosh a DPOY contender, hell why didnt he make an All-Defensive team? Even if what your saying were true (which it isnt), it doesnt change the fact that Bron has a greater presence defensively than Wade.

JordansBulls
05-18-2012, 12:22 AM
RLY? So then why wasnt Bosh a DPOY contender, hell why didnt he make an All-Defensive team? Even if what your saying were true (which it isnt), it doesnt change the fact that Bron has a greater presence defensively than Wade.

Hype. One was mentioned in the movie Coach Carter as a rookie while the other had no hype.

Chronz
05-18-2012, 12:25 AM
Hype. One was mentioned in the movie Coach Carter as a rookie while the other had no hype.
It all makes sense now. Coaches and media members fell for the hype. Bosh being a terrible defender before ever hooking up with Bron was all a mirage.

Becks2307
05-20-2012, 01:27 AM
Yup he will. If kd plays Lebron in a series kd wins

ewing
05-20-2012, 01:59 AM
He will be i still dont think he is. He's ****ing awesome thougn

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-20-2012, 02:03 AM
Durant just took the torch from Kobe this series, so yes, KD will win a championship this yr and it will be his era.


From MJ, to Kobe, to KD.

Becks2307
05-20-2012, 02:08 AM
KD is cold blooded - 3 ****ing game winners in these playoffs alone.

Chronz
05-20-2012, 02:11 AM
Durant just took the torch from Kobe this series, so yes, KD will win a championship this yr and it will be his era.


From MJ, to Kobe, to KD.

LOL Kobe never carried the torch

Baller1
05-20-2012, 04:30 AM
I really believe KD will be unanimously viewed as an NBA legend if he can stay healthy thoughout his career.

kArSoN RyDaH
05-20-2012, 04:45 AM
yes

todu82
05-20-2012, 09:22 AM
I think he will enter into the conversation as the best player but it's still Lebron and Kobe as the top 2.

da ThRONe
05-20-2012, 09:30 AM
This whole title agruement is just gone on to far. Titles should never factor into individual greatest in a team sport even basketball. Everybody went crazy over Dirk after last year and what did he do this year? Durant is a great player that still hasn't peaked yet. He'll be in the discussion if he continues to grow his game and be consistent. For me right now he's just starting to break into the top 5.

JWO35
05-20-2012, 10:47 AM
I thought he already was...

ManRam
05-20-2012, 11:01 AM
Maybe if he plays well...but again...that's team success dictating individual stature and it's never that cut and dry.

Hell, Russy's stature probably deserves to balloon the most. He's been phenomenal, and often unfairly criticized.

torocan
05-20-2012, 11:03 AM
I think he will enter into the conversation as the best player but it's still Lebron and Kobe as the top 2.

Kobe isn't top 2 anymore. Age is catching up to him (sadly).

Lebron is still the better individual player up and down, Durant isn't far behind.

Durant is probably the better TEAM player right now, though it's harder to judge given how ridiculously good Pops is when compared to Spo.

Durant WILL pass Lebron. Just a matter of time barring injury. Might be a season or two, but I think it's pretty clear where the torch is going.

I personally think Lebron's stats are inflated due to playing in the weaker Eastern Conference. However, he's still better on D than Durant so gets the edge in my books.

Becks2307
05-20-2012, 11:49 AM
Kobe isn't top 2 anymore. Age is catching up to him (sadly).

Lebron is still the better individual player up and down, Durant isn't far behind.

Durant is probably the better TEAM player right now, though it's harder to judge given how ridiculously good Pops is when compared to Spo.

Durant WILL pass Lebron. Just a matter of time barring injury. Might be a season or two, but I think it's pretty clear where the torch is going.

I personally think Lebron's stats are inflated due to playing in the weaker Eastern Conference. However, he's still better on D than Durant so gets the edge in my books.

Thing is though. It won't matter if Durant wins a chip.

Whats the good in being the best player in the world, if you can't win the close games. I've seen Durant time and time again win the games for OKC. If Durant gets to the finals and hits a couple clutch shots, he will explode in the NBA realm.

As amazing as Lebron's MVPS and stats are, they get emptier and emptier to the public every year he doesn't get a ring.

All this said, its very early in the playoffs still, people are writing the heat off a bit early.

ManRam
05-20-2012, 11:58 AM
A few things.

1. It obviously depends on how he plays. If he goes nuts, then maybe. If he carries his team and just looks head and shoulders better than everyone else, then whatever...that's fine. We can crown him.

2. You could make an argument that Westbrook has actually been the team's best player these playoffs.

3. It's worth nothing that LeBron has been the best player in the playoffs so far too. If we're comparing individuals, why not compare individual efforts? LeBron has been phenomenal in these playoffs. You can blast him for missing a few FTs...that's fine. But he's been amazing overall. KD had a few iffy ends to games in these playoffs, he just got help from other guys to secure the wins. He's got two huge shots made, and with the clutch narrative driving everything, I understand why people will use that to put him at the top. That's fine. But hey, LeBron has been the best player in close-and-late situations in these playoffs :shrug: Even better than KD. Shooting 50% in those situations... compared to Durant's 45%. But we remember the bad, and not the good...


He's clearly a top 2 player in the NBA now. I guess it comes down to preference...since the two play very different styles of basketball.

Becks2307
05-20-2012, 12:07 PM
A few things.

1. It obviously depends on how he plays. If he goes nuts, then maybe. If he carries his team and just looks head and shoulders better than everyone else, then whatever...that's fine. We can crown him.

2. You could make an argument that Westbrook has actually been the team's best player these playoffs.

3. It's worth nothing that LeBron has been the best player in the playoffs so far too. If we're comparing individuals, why not compare individual efforts? LeBron has been phenomenal in these playoffs. You can blast him for missing a few FTs...that's fine. But he's been amazing overall. KD had a few iffy ends to games in these playoffs, he just got help from other guys to secure the wins. He's got two huge shots made, and with the clutch narrative driving everything, I understand why people will use that to put him at the top. That's fine. But hey, LeBron has been the best player in close-and-late situations in these playoffs :shrug: Even better than KD. Shooting 50% in those situations... compared to Durant's 45%. But we remember the bad, and not the good...


He's clearly a top 2 player in the NBA now. I guess it comes down to preference...since the two play very different styles of basketball.

Lebron dominated against a hobbled Knick team with no one to guard him.

KD swept the defending champion Mavericks, winning one of the games with a last second shot.

Lebron is faltering somewhat vs the Pacers (not entirely his fault) but he did brick two free throws and "let Chalmers take the last shot"

KD is up 3-1 vs the Lakers, and hit two absolutely clutch game winning shots.


So who's really playing better? Lebron's stats may be a bit better, but Durant is putting up the stats and winning the games when it matters.

This is how it will be seen in the Basketball World.

Lebron's statistical dominance has become irrelevant because of his perceived failings in the fourth.

Its like "Oh Lebron almost got a triple double again? but he missed the two important free throws...great..."

MrfadeawayJB
05-20-2012, 12:10 PM
He would get more consideration but still a close second to lebron

torocan
05-20-2012, 12:21 PM
He's clearly a top 2 player in the NBA now. I guess it comes down to preference...since the two play very different styles of basketball.

Definitely some truth to this.

As to the issue of being "clutch", in the final 5 minutes of games, Lebron is actually not very clutch at all. His FG% drops from 53 to 45%. Yes, defenses crunching down can account for some of that, BUT his FT shooting ALSO drops from to 77% to 71% in the last 5 minutes. http://www.82games.com/1112/11MIA8.HTM

And while "clutchiness" is a bit of an intangible, I don't think it's completely unfair to factor it in on some level when you're trying to seperate the "great" from the "best".

I don't factor clutch play in as much as some of the other posters do, but I do understand the argument. IE, what good is 43 mins of great play if you can't close in the last 5 minutes?

It could be argued that as great as he is, he may not be the guy that can be relied on to single-handedly push a team over the hump to win critical games.

Is that enough to make Durant the "best"? Depends on your point of view I suppose.

The Jokemaker
05-20-2012, 12:25 PM
I'd say Durant is the best now. He gets the concept of a team, plays well with his teammates, doesn't bash his coach every chance he gets, is a phenomenal scorer, good defensively, and big time clutch. If I'm Starting a franchise today, Durant is my guy. He is the best in the league.

Sactown
05-20-2012, 01:04 PM
Lebron dominated against a hobbled Knick team with no one to guard him.

KD swept the defending champion Mavericks, winning one of the games with a last second shot.

Lebron is faltering somewhat vs the Pacers (not entirely his fault) but he did brick two free throws and "let Chalmers take the last shot"

KD is up 3-1 vs the Lakers, and hit two absolutely clutch game winning shots.


So who's really playing better? Lebron's stats may be a bit better, but Durant is putting up the stats and winning the games when it matters.

This is how it will be seen in the Basketball World.

Lebron's statistical dominance has become irrelevant because of his perceived failings in the fourth.

Its like "Oh Lebron almost got a triple double again? but he missed the two important free throws...great..."

Let's not pretend those were the same mavericks that won last year... and who did they have to cover Durant? since the Knicks didn't have anyone to guard Lebron?

Statistically KD is exactly "rising to the occasion" considering his numbers have flat lined and decreased in certain areas.

and Lebrons stat's are better in the 4th....

Baller1
05-20-2012, 01:11 PM
Let's not pretend those were the same mavericks that won last year... and who did they have to cover Durant? since the Knicks didn't have anyone to guard Lebron?

Statistically KD is exactly "rising to the occasion" considering his numbers have flat lined and decreased in certain areas.

and Lebrons stat's are better in the 4th....

Shawn Marion.

da ThRONe
05-20-2012, 01:23 PM
Maybe if he plays well...but again...that's team success dictating individual stature and it's never that cut and dry.

Hell, Russy's stature probably deserves to balloon the most. He's been phenomenal, and often unfairly criticized.

Yeah Russ has been the difference. He's not just out there "going for his". He's shooting, but he's taking high percentage shots. Also not so early in the shot clock and not without any ball movement.

Chronz
05-20-2012, 01:59 PM
Kobe isn't top 2 anymore. Age is catching up to him (sadly).

Lebron is still the better individual player up and down, Durant isn't far behind.

Durant is probably the better TEAM player right now, though it's harder to judge given how ridiculously good Pops is when compared to Spo.

Durant WILL pass Lebron. Just a matter of time barring injury. Might be a season or two, but I think it's pretty clear where the torch is going.


Im lost, whats Pops got to do with anything?



I personally think Lebron's stats are inflated due to playing in the weaker Eastern Conference. However, he's still better on D than Durant so gets the edge in my books.
Is there any sort of evidence to back you? Brons #'s vs the West are superior than his #'s vs the East both this year and on his career. The East has most of the best defensive teams dont they?

torocan
05-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Im lost, whats Pops got to do with anything?

Coaching impacts practices, rotations, talent recruitment and playcalling. The best coach optimizes the rotation, putting the best mix of players on the floor. Any player performs better when put in the best position to maximize their abilities. So, a coach like Pops extracts higher levels of performance from individual members than inferior coaches.

For example, if a Coach puts a bad rotation on the floor, then a player like Lebron or Durant will be put at a performance disadvantage. So, without knowing how Lebron and Durant would perform under the same coach, it's harder to judge how much of Durant's efficiency can be partially attributed to superior coaching.


Is there any sort of evidence to back you? Brons #'s vs the West are superior than his #'s vs the East both this year and on his career. The East has most of the best defensive teams dont they?

10 out of the last 13 champions were from the Western Conference.

In the last 13 years, the championship titles break down as follows...

Lakers - 5
Spurs - 4
Mavericks - 1

Pistons - 1
Miami - 1
Celtics - 1

So yes, I would argue that currently the WC is tougher than the EC.

PhillyFaninLA
05-20-2012, 03:06 PM
If he is not the best without a ring a piece of jewelry does not make him one. Titles are a team accomplishment not an individual one.

Now if you want to say he's the best because you think he's the best I get that but if you say the ring makes him the best have the balls to sincerely say and defend Robert Horry is better then Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan or acknowledge you're a hypocrite.

JordansBulls
05-20-2012, 03:07 PM
A few things.

1. It obviously depends on how he plays. If he goes nuts, then maybe. If he carries his team and just looks head and shoulders better than everyone else, then whatever...that's fine. We can crown him.

2. You could make an argument that Westbrook has actually been the team's best player these playoffs.

3. It's worth nothing that LeBron has been the best player in the playoffs so far too. If we're comparing individuals, why not compare individual efforts? LeBron has been phenomenal in these playoffs. You can blast him for missing a few FTs...that's fine. But he's been amazing overall. KD had a few iffy ends to games in these playoffs, he just got help from other guys to secure the wins. He's got two huge shots made, and with the clutch narrative driving everything, I understand why people will use that to put him at the top. That's fine. But hey, LeBron has been the best player in close-and-late situations in these playoffs :shrug: Even better than KD. Shooting 50% in those situations... compared to Durant's 45%. But we remember the bad, and not the good...


He's clearly a top 2 player in the NBA now. I guess it comes down to preference...since the two play very different styles of basketball.

It will be hard to argue against Durant. He would have knocked off the defending champions in Dallas, the team that won the 2 titles before Dallas in LA and then SA the team that won it all before LA last and if it is Boston the team that won it all in 2008.

So it would be Dallas 2011, LA 2009, 2010, SA 2007, Boston 2008.

Each of those teams probably has there top 2-3 players still from when they won it all.

JordansBulls
05-20-2012, 03:12 PM
Durant just took the torch from Kobe this series, so yes, KD will win a championship this yr and it will be his era.


From MJ, to Kobe, to KD.

I'd say it was more from MJ to Shaq to Duncan to Kobe.

Dont see how Shaq and Duncan didn't carry it when they won league mvp a season they won the title and finals mvp.

PleaseBeNice
05-20-2012, 03:14 PM
Probably not, even though his offensive game is great he won't be considered the best because he's not nearly as good defensively as LeBron.

This right here. Durant is miles behind LeBron on defense. People like to think the NBA is only about offense.

AIRMAR72
05-20-2012, 03:21 PM
durant IS playing the I expected him to play by attacking the basket he really needs to post more russel need to stop playing wildman ball lakers allow themselves to get beat but the culprit is kobe spurs should handle OKC with ease

DreamShaker
05-20-2012, 04:02 PM
He is getting close. Every year he gets better. His defense, playmaking, and leadership juave all seemed to improve. He has a killer instinct already and can will his team to victory, in a way most guys cannot. He has been out Kobe-ing Kobe.

DreamShaker
05-20-2012, 04:05 PM
No idea how I said Juave instead of have. Lol.

WadeKobe
05-20-2012, 04:37 PM
Championships have nothing to do with individuals. They're won by teams. Championships never made anyone GOAT, ever. Championships don't matter in GOAT discussions. They do not matter AT ALL.

Performance by that player on the big stage is what matters. Not winning/losing. Teams do that. Individuals perform.

Becks2307
05-20-2012, 08:25 PM
Championships have nothing to do with individuals. They're won by teams. Championships never made anyone GOAT, ever. Championships don't matter in GOAT discussions. They do not matter AT ALL.

Performance by that player on the big stage is what matters. Not winning/losing. Teams do that. Individuals perform.

This isn't true.

No player will ever be the GOAT if they don't win a chip in basketball, EVER.

Chronz
05-20-2012, 08:41 PM
Coaching impacts practices, rotations, talent recruitment and playcalling. The best coach optimizes the rotation, putting the best mix of players on the floor. Any player performs better when put in the best position to maximize their abilities. So, a coach like Pops extracts higher levels of performance from individual members than inferior coaches.

For example, if a Coach puts a bad rotation on the floor, then a player like Lebron or Durant will be put at a performance disadvantage. So, without knowing how Lebron and Durant would perform under the same coach, it's harder to judge how much of Durant's efficiency can be partially attributed to superior coaching.
Yes but what does Pops have to do with Durant vs Bron?


10 out of the last 13 champions were from the Western Conference.
Point? Your talking about their stats vs conference play.


In the last 13 years, the championship titles break down as follows...

Lakers - 5
Spurs - 4
Mavericks - 1

Pistons - 1
Miami - 1
Celtics - 1

So yes, I would argue that currently the WC is tougher than the EC.
Based on what though? The Western conference has a bunch of teams that dont win the title, your focusing on 1 team each year. And Brons stats vs the West get BETTER. Also arent the best defenses in the East?

Your "evidence" doesnt support your claim (that conferences boost his stats) because the stats show that not to be the case. In fact the stats say Bron plays better against the West and Durant sees no significant difference one way or another. So what exactly are you basing it on?

JJ_JKidd
05-20-2012, 08:49 PM
Most probably. He has been clutch this postseason :clap:

Blitzbolt
05-20-2012, 09:09 PM
Lebron is top 3 in both defense and Offense.He is faster stronger and smarter. So no even with a ring.

JC_
05-20-2012, 09:53 PM
If they win the championship they are the best team. Put Lebron on that team and other teams would be crying during timeouts lol

Becks2307
05-20-2012, 10:55 PM
Lebron is top 3 in both defense and Offense.He is faster stronger and smarter. So no even with a ring.

It won't matter if he can't lead them to a ring in the grand scheme of things.