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View Full Version : LeBron James' Worst Enemy



kobe4thewinbang
05-16-2012, 02:16 AM
Free throws. C'mon, man. You gotta make those.
Is he ever going to fix this problem? Keeps happening.

stawka
05-16-2012, 03:49 AM
Thread of the year

That said, Cool story brother

asandhu23
05-16-2012, 03:50 AM
his 4th quarter self.

John Walls Era
05-16-2012, 03:51 AM
Skip Bayless actually

DodgerBulls
05-16-2012, 03:52 AM
It seemed like earlier that he didnt want any part of the last shot. It could just be me, but he stayed at the corner letting whoever guarding him guard with hardly any effort at all.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2012, 03:56 AM
I agree lol

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-16-2012, 03:58 AM
I would say Heat fans are a comin, but just realized it's 4 in the morning where they're at.

Norm
05-16-2012, 04:05 AM
Human beings who love controversy and ratings.

bholly
05-16-2012, 04:24 AM
his 4th quarter self.

He shot .801 (95 of 118) in the 4th quarter this year, higher than his usual percentage. .857 (12 of 14) in the first round.
Last year it was .772 (149 of 193) in the regular season and .804 (33 of 41) in the playoffs.
The year before that, .793 (184 of 232), the year before that .813 (161 of 198), the year before that .758 (172 of 227).

LeBron James is, and has been for the last 5+ seasons, a better free throw shooter in the 4th quarter than the rest of the game.

But by all means just keep repeating whatever the usual go-to storyline is that Skip told you without even thinking about it or checking to see if it's true.

Eagles710
05-16-2012, 04:58 AM
You Know whats really cool... He Could miss 10,000 Free throws in a row, and still be the BEST Player in the Nba

Eagles710
05-16-2012, 04:58 AM
And to the Person that Read that ^^^^^^^^ NO KOBE IS NOT BETTER lol

3ballbomber
05-16-2012, 05:04 AM
You Know whats really cool... He Could miss 10,000 Free throws in a row, and still be the BEST Player in the Nba
omg that is garbage, homer drivel.

Lebrons worst enemy is himself.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-16-2012, 05:07 AM
You Know whats really cool... He Could miss 10,000 Free throws in a row, and still be the BEST Player in the Nba

The hell u smokin son?!

thenaj17
05-16-2012, 05:32 AM
He shot .801 (95 of 118) in the 4th quarter this year, higher than his usual percentage. .857 (12 of 14) in the first round.
Last year it was .772 (149 of 193) in the regular season and .804 (33 of 41) in the playoffs.
The year before that, .793 (184 of 232), the year before that .813 (161 of 198), the year before that .758 (172 of 227).

LeBron James is, and has been for the last 5+ seasons, a better free throw shooter in the 4th quarter than the rest of the game.

But by all means just keep repeating whatever the usual go-to storyline is that Skip told you without even thinking about it or checking to see if it's true.

THIS! LeBron is an all time great, end of. Leave the dude alone.

JJ_JKidd
05-16-2012, 05:50 AM
You Know whats really cool... He Could miss 10,000 Free throws in a row, and still be the BEST Player in the Nba

That still cant win a Championship...

COOL STORY, indeed :cool:

JeffG20
05-16-2012, 06:05 AM
You Know whats really cool... He Could miss 10,000 Free throws in a row, and still be the BEST Player in the Nba

you know whats even cooler... he can be the best player in the nba and still have less rings then adam Morrison

mustaine
05-16-2012, 07:52 AM
He shot .801 (95 of 118) in the 4th quarter this year, higher than his usual percentage. .857 (12 of 14) in the first round.
Last year it was .772 (149 of 193) in the regular season and .804 (33 of 41) in the playoffs.
The year before that, .793 (184 of 232), the year before that .813 (161 of 198), the year before that .758 (172 of 227).

LeBron James is, and has been for the last 5+ seasons, a better free throw shooter in the 4th quarter than the rest of the game.

But by all means just keep repeating whatever the usual go-to storyline is that Skip told you without even thinking about it or checking to see if it's true.

Can't dispute the numbers. He's very good in the fourth quarter player and he does make a fair share of great plays at the end of games.

Having said that, this was in an article on espn.com:

1-Possession Game With 1 Min Remaining
4th Quarter and OT, This Season
FT FT Pct
LeBron James 10-17<< 59%
Dwyane Wade 6-7 86%
Chris Bosh 3-3 100%
Mario Chalmers 4-5 80%
>>0-2 in Game 2

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/42919/without-bosh-heat-inside-game-doused

Anyway, he's a great player and should make those free throws. Unlucky that they didn't go in, next game they might but I think it's safe to say that in a one possession game with 1 minute or under left it would be smarter going to Wade.

theheatles
05-16-2012, 07:58 AM
LeBron missing those FTs has everything to do with fatigue...LeBron is simply playing too much and since he's having to play more PF therefore exerting more energy playing d, with Bosh out and Haslem only playing 13 min, LeBron was spent

chi-townlove1
05-16-2012, 08:48 AM
John Lucas the turd..

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2012, 09:06 AM
I agree lol

holy **** wtf is going on with your username:speechless:

natelpete
05-16-2012, 09:12 AM
He shot .801 (95 of 118) in the 4th quarter this year, higher than his usual percentage. .857 (12 of 14) in the first round.
Last year it was .772 (149 of 193) in the regular season and .804 (33 of 41) in the playoffs.
The year before that, .793 (184 of 232), the year before that .813 (161 of 198), the year before that .758 (172 of 227).

LeBron James is, and has been for the last 5+ seasons, a better free throw shooter in the 4th quarter than the rest of the game.

But by all means just keep repeating whatever the usual go-to storyline is that Skip told you without even thinking about it or checking to see if it's true.

this

You Know whats really cool... He Could miss 10,000 Free throws in a row, and still be the BEST Player in the Nba
this


And to the Person that Read that ^^^^^^^^ NO KOBE IS NOT BETTER lol

this.. and I'm not even a Heat fan.

bholly
05-16-2012, 09:12 AM
LeBron missing those FTs has everything to do with fatigue...LeBron is simply playing too much and since he's having to play more PF therefore exerting more energy playing d, with Bosh out and Haslem only playing 13 min, LeBron was spent

This is almost as bad as the 'LeBron is just awful at FTs in the 4th' argument. At least yours isn't demonstrably wrong, but you have no idea if it's right or not, either. Sometimes guys just miss FTs. Even the greats. There's no way to accurately ascribe the misses to anything like that. He might've just missed.

knicks4life33
05-16-2012, 09:15 AM
The fourth quarter under 3 minutes is his worst enemy

ChicagoJ
05-16-2012, 10:38 AM
LeBron is going to be the most criticized player in sports so no surprise missing free throws brings up the same old story line. The misses are still on him, you gota make those, but he will get the microscope treatment nonetheless.

Chronz
05-16-2012, 10:44 AM
Do you have proof that he does this all the time or do you just want to blow up an isolated incident like every hater does for every player he hates on.

D-Leethal
05-16-2012, 10:51 AM
Can't dispute the numbers. He's very good in the fourth quarter player and he does make a fair share of great plays at the end of games.

Having said that, this was in an article on espn.com:

1-Possession Game With 1 Min Remaining
4th Quarter and OT, This Season
FT FT Pct
LeBron James 10-17<< 59%
Dwyane Wade 6-7 86%
Chris Bosh 3-3 100%
Mario Chalmers 4-5 80%
>>0-2 in Game 2

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/42919/without-bosh-heat-inside-game-doused

Anyway, he's a great player and should make those free throws. Unlucky that they didn't go in, next game they might but I think it's safe to say that in a one possession game with 1 minute or under left it would be smarter going to Wade.

This.

His 4th quarter FT's overall is misleading. This is one of the best teams in the league with a ton of blowouts. The large majority of those FT's are likely in games they have a comfortable lead.

As the stats suggest above, LeBron's worst enemy is crunch time of tight games where the pressure hits its climax. He will do his thing but when it comes down to 1 possession or 1 trip to the FT line, thats where he folds.

Hes the best player in the world for 47 minutes a night, but I don't think anyone can deny he has some serious inner demons when it comes down to that ONE play to determine whether your gonna lose or your gonna win. He just doesn't have it.

D-Leethal
05-16-2012, 10:54 AM
Do you have proof that he does this all the time or do you just want to blow up an isolated incident like every hater does for every player he hates on.

I would say his FT % dropping about 30 percentage points from his regular 4th quarter % in the 80s to his 1 minute/1 possession game FT % which is in the 50s would qualify, no?

MoBASS
05-16-2012, 10:59 AM
I wonder if he meditates. If not, he should. Really

Chronz
05-16-2012, 11:14 AM
I would say his FT % dropping about 30 percentage points from his regular 4th quarter % in the 80s to his 1 minute/1 possession game FT % which is in the 50s would qualify, no?
Absolutely not and Ill show you why.

Here were his #'s in 1 possession games over 2 minutes situation in 2 years I could look the stat up without an exhaustive search.

2008: 80%
2004: 6/8 (75%)

So did he get worse in FT% in really tight situations? Or can we admit small samples are prone to random variance?

kobe4thewinbang
05-16-2012, 11:16 AM
Do you have proof that he does this all the time or do you just want to blow up an isolated incident like every hater does for every player he hates on. It's not an isolated incident. LBJ has consistently done this in big game situations. Last year, this year, I think he even did it with the Cavs. When is it going to end? Why can't he make a free throw? Every time he does this crap, his team loses.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 11:48 AM
Lebron does NOT want any part of the free throw line at the end of close games. Stevie wonder could see that.

BALLER R
05-16-2012, 11:54 AM
Lebrons mental toughness is his biggest enemy

D-Leethal
05-16-2012, 12:05 PM
Absolutely not and Ill show you why.

Here were his #'s in 1 possession games over 2 minutes situation in 2 years I could look the stat up without an exhaustive search.

2008: 80%
2004: 6/8 (75%)

So did he get worse in FT% in really tight situations? Or can we admit small samples are prone to random variance?

I'm assuming you mean under 2 minutes situations?

And he only took 8 FT's under 2 minutes in 1 possession games for all of 2004? I find it hard to believe he took half the amount of FT's in pressure situations under 2 min. than he did this year in pressure situations under 1 min.?

That seems off to me.

I think 17 FT's in crunch time close games is a pretty damn good sample size for this year. I also think the random variance in crunch time isn't that random because being a pressure packed situation is a very real variable that can change the outcome of something a player regularly does successfully.

I know your a stat guy, but do you just refuse to accept anything you see with your own 2 eyes unless you have a slew of stats to back it up? You really can't see it in his eyes, see it in his body language? The dude has 0 confidence in those situations and does anything he can to avoid being put in them. After he missed the 2 FT's he himself just looked at a loss for words like 'are you kidding me? Again?'. Obviously, thats about as subjective as it gets, and there aren't a ton of ways to prove it, but at this point I find it hard to argue that the man freezes up when it comes down to 1 play to win or lose.

NYK4L
05-16-2012, 12:29 PM
He should call another retired player to work on his freethrows, he's great just need's more advice is all.

Chronz
05-16-2012, 12:58 PM
It's not an isolated incident. LBJ has consistently done this in big game situations. Last year, this year, I think he even did it with the Cavs. When is it going to end? Why can't he make a free throw? Every time he does this crap, his team loses.

link?

Chronz
05-16-2012, 01:17 PM
I'm assuming you mean under 2 minutes situations?

And he only took 8 FT's under 2 minutes in 1 possession games for all of 2004? I find it hard to believe he took half the amount of FT's in pressure situations under 2 min. than he did this year in pressure situations under 1 min.?

That seems off to me.
I forgot to mention the #'s were only through March 17th of that year. And if your recall 2004 was his rookie year, both he and the Cavs were pretty bad then. Still would it render those 8FTA meaningless? What about his 80% success rate in 2008? I can track every FT throughout his career under those same guidelines if you wish but its going to take me some time but only if your willing to accept what comes out. Which I have no idea but given the nature of clutch stats and small samples, Im pretty confident they revert to his career norms.


I think 17 FT's in crunch time close games is a pretty damn good sample size for this year.



I also think the random variance in crunch time isn't that random because being a pressure packed situation is a very real variable that can change the outcome of something a player regularly does successfully.

If this were true there would be a stronger correlation year to year among teams in the clutch. Everything Ive read has suggested otherwise, more importantly, its not as important as how you play all 48 minutes.


I know your a stat guy, but do you just refuse to accept anything you see with your own 2 eyes unless you have a slew of stats to back it up?
Its free throw shooting, you cant make up a narrative on such a short amount of data. Ive SEEN him make those same FT's before, now how is my eye suppose to track YEARS of data? You can say he choked yesterday, thats what my eyes told me too, but you cannot say this is a trend without proof.


You really can't see it in his eyes, see it in his body language? The dude has 0 confidence in those situations and does anything he can to avoid being put in them. After he missed the 2 FT's he himself just looked at a loss for words like 'are you kidding me? Again?'. Obviously, thats about as subjective as it gets, and there aren't a ton of ways to prove it, but at this point I find it hard to argue that the man freezes up when it comes down to 1 play to win or lose.
I do agree that in those situations the less he looks like superman he becomes, but its also not the only time you can be clutch. And with regards to FT shooting, I need proof that this is a recurring theme if thats going to be the narrative on him. 17 attempts arent any more conclusive than his 8 attempts his ROOKIE year and 80% shooting in 2008.

Vinylman
05-16-2012, 01:27 PM
this is something that you can't prove statistically nor need to...

unfortunately, we all watched the game last night... he missed the fT's when they should be a given

that... no one can dispute

Chronz
05-16-2012, 01:57 PM
this is something that you can't prove statistically nor need to...

unfortunately, we all watched the game last night... he missed the fT's when they should be a given

that... no one can dispute

What do you mean you cant prove it? You cant look up how many free throws the man has missed under a certain guideline? Thats actually the easiest factor of clutchness you can review.

kobemelo
05-16-2012, 02:12 PM
You Know whats really cool... He Could miss 10,000 Free throws in a row, and still be the BEST Player in the Nba

this lmao.

benzni
05-16-2012, 02:20 PM
You Know whats really cool... He Could miss 10,000 Free throws in a row, and still be the BEST Player in the Nba

so when he averages less points, loses games due to missing 10,000 let alone 1,000 in a row you still think he is going to be the BEST player in the NBA. He averaged 10.2 attempts this year and 29.7 points. He misses all 10 shots and he averages a whopping 19 points a game. What a King!

D-Leethal
05-16-2012, 02:29 PM
I forgot to mention the #'s were only through March 17th of that year. And if your recall 2004 was his rookie year, both he and the Cavs were pretty bad then. Still would it render those 8FTA meaningless? What about his 80% success rate in 2008? I can track every FT throughout his career under those same guidelines if you wish but its going to take me some time but only if your willing to accept what comes out. Which I have no idea but given the nature of clutch stats and small samples, Im pretty confident they revert to his career norms.





If this were true there would be a stronger correlation year to year among teams in the clutch. Everything Ive read has suggested otherwise, more importantly, its not as important as how you play all 48 minutes.


Its free throw shooting, you cant make up a narrative on such a short amount of data. Ive SEEN him make those same FT's before, now how is my eye suppose to track YEARS of data? You can say he choked yesterday, thats what my eyes told me too, but you cannot say this is a trend without proof.


I do agree that in those situations the less he looks like superman he becomes, but its also not the only time you can be clutch. And with regards to FT shooting, I need proof that this is a recurring theme if thats going to be the narrative on him. 17 attempts arent any more conclusive than his 8 attempts his ROOKIE year and 80% shooting in 2008.

My personal opinion is that LeBron played much more freely young in his career. He was adored by his hometown, adored by the National fans, pristine reputation and he was the hometown hero. I think that translated through his game, he didn't have the same pressure he does now, he didn't have the same expectations he does now, did have a legion of vultures, both fans and media alike, waiting for him to mess up so they can pounce on him.

Early in his career you never saw these clutch demons come out. I mean he had I believe 2 game winners against Washington in a tight first round playoff series early in his career. Had an unbelievable turn around 3 point prayer buzzer beater in the playoffs against ORL.

I think a combination of increasing pressure coming with being 'The King' with no ring (this started in his later years in CLE) combined with the extra thinking in crunch time that goes hand in hand with having one of the best closers in the game on your team has had an effect on his mental psyche.

Its no longer a 'play free' type of game for LeBron. There is too much pressure, his legacy on the line, too many haters, and he's no longer the defacto closer, something that comes along with signing with your best friends who happen to be top talents in the league.

I think his lack of mental fortitude wasn't really exposed back then because he didn't feel the pressure he does now. Now that the pressure is on, I think we are seeing his inner demons truly come out, and its been pretty evident for the past 3 years or so.

Hes no longer the top young talent to ever grace the hardwood, hes now a seasoned vet who has yet to mold that unbelievable talent into championships, and he senses the clock ticking and the pressure skyrocketing, and IMO, it shows through missed FT's down the stretch of pressure-packed games, passing off to guys like Haslem and Chalmers to take the game winners/tiers/clinchers, waiving to Wade to come grab the ball for the final possession while he goes and hides in the corner etc....

That didn't happen when LeBron was young, carefree, and pressure-free. I mean this guy has said 100s of times how he hates being the 'villain', he cares about being liked, hes hired a ton of PR people to help him be liked, he calls HOFers to find out what is wrong with his approach to try to get this monkey off his back.

Everything hes done sort of points to him not being able to perform under the pressure that he brought upon himself the second he not only went to Miami, but proclaimed winning championships was going to be EASY. Early in his career he played like he knew he was destined to be one of the greatest of all time, if not THE GOAT. Now hes playing like hes looking at the championship hourglass running thin, and he knows with every loss, every choke, every empty postseason without a ring, his legacy is falling further and further from GOAT status.

metsbulls1025
05-16-2012, 03:32 PM
This year Lebron is shooting 58.8 percent from the free throw line in the final minute of one position games.

Ebbs
05-16-2012, 03:35 PM
Real Answer DeShawn os so Sexual Stevenson

8kobe24
05-16-2012, 04:38 PM
I think somewhere in lebron's mind while shooting the freethrow(s) is the fear of criticism instead of just having a clear mind and just shooting the damn ball.

bholly
05-16-2012, 05:58 PM
I would say his FT % dropping about 30 percentage points from his regular 4th quarter % in the 80s to his 1 minute/1 possession game FT % which is in the 50s would qualify, no?

Where are the stats on that coming from?

BBR has his =<3 minutes and =<5 point spread numbers at .75 (21 of 28) this year. I'd really like to see those 1min 1poss stats. Preferably for his career, because the sample size can't be very big just picking one or two years.

Chronz
05-16-2012, 06:02 PM
My personal opinion is that LeBron played much more freely young in his career. He was adored by his hometown, adored by the National fans, pristine reputation and he was the hometown hero. I think that translated through his game, he didn't have the same pressure he does now, he didn't have the same expectations he does now, did have a legion of vultures, both fans and media alike, waiting for him to mess up so they can pounce on him.

Early in his career you never saw these clutch demons come out. I mean he had I believe 2 game winners against Washington in a tight first round playoff series early in his career. Had an unbelievable turn around 3 point prayer buzzer beater in the playoffs against ORL.

I think a combination of increasing pressure coming with being 'The King' with no ring (this started in his later years in CLE) combined with the extra thinking in crunch time that goes hand in hand with having one of the best closers in the game on your team has had an effect on his mental psyche.

Its no longer a 'play free' type of game for LeBron. There is too much pressure, his legacy on the line, too many haters, and he's no longer the defacto closer, something that comes along with signing with your best friends who happen to be top talents in the league.

I think his lack of mental fortitude wasn't really exposed back then because he didn't feel the pressure he does now. Now that the pressure is on, I think we are seeing his inner demons truly come out, and its been pretty evident for the past 3 years or so.

Hes no longer the top young talent to ever grace the hardwood, hes now a seasoned vet who has yet to mold that unbelievable talent into championships, and he senses the clock ticking and the pressure skyrocketing, and IMO, it shows through missed FT's down the stretch of pressure-packed games, passing off to guys like Haslem and Chalmers to take the game winners/tiers/clinchers, waiving to Wade to come grab the ball for the final possession while he goes and hides in the corner etc....

That didn't happen when LeBron was young, carefree, and pressure-free. I mean this guy has said 100s of times how he hates being the 'villain', he cares about being liked, hes hired a ton of PR people to help him be liked, he calls HOFers to find out what is wrong with his approach to try to get this monkey off his back.

Everything hes done sort of points to him not being able to perform under the pressure that he brought upon himself the second he not only went to Miami, but proclaimed winning championships was going to be EASY. Early in his career he played like he knew he was destined to be one of the greatest of all time, if not THE GOAT. Now hes playing like hes looking at the championship hourglass running thin, and he knows with every loss, every choke, every empty postseason without a ring, his legacy is falling further and further from GOAT status.

all good points, could be alot to that. I remember feeling something similar with Tmac back in the day, his free throw shooting really tailed off towards the end of his career and I maintain that his confidence wasnt the same.

NoahH
05-16-2012, 06:20 PM
:facepalm:

Eagles710
05-17-2012, 03:11 PM
Lmao, Listen Everyone Thinks Im a Lebron Fan im actually Not, all im saying is the truth.... He Really could be a Bad free throw shooter for the Rest of his career and be the best in the Nba Hands Down, which he is. Still does not take away the fact he is 6'8 260 and can Play Every Position on the Floor, and Can Play them All Well. Thats all im trying to say