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View Full Version : Derrick Rose ruled out 8-12 months



BKLYNpigeon
05-15-2012, 05:16 PM
OUCH. might not see him at all next season.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/doctor-bulls-derrick-rose-out-8-12-months-after-knee-injury-but-could-return-sooner/2012/05/15/gIQAjWEyRU_story.html

Iron24th
05-15-2012, 05:20 PM
8-12 months seems unreal.

BKLYNpigeon
05-15-2012, 05:21 PM
It must be a serious ACL injury.

Holydiver
05-15-2012, 05:22 PM
bulls window slammed shut

justinnum1
05-15-2012, 05:22 PM
^yep

Must have found more damage in the knee, i would be surprised if he comes back next year, its bad enough that he might not ever be the same, no need to risk re injury.

SA5195
05-15-2012, 05:22 PM
Holy ****!

DaSeba5
05-15-2012, 05:23 PM
Sucks to see that. He's a great guy. I wish him the best.

todu82
05-15-2012, 05:24 PM
Wow, that's terrible news for Rose and the Bulls. Hopefully the Bulls can do well without him next season and he can return in time for the playoffs.

jayjay33
05-15-2012, 05:24 PM
Damn! This could turn into another Gil Arenas situation. With out his explosivness gil went from agent 0 to nothing. I think the same will happen to rose if he can't get that back to at least close to what it was. That's is the danger with players who's game is primarily dependent on there athleticism. It's not looking good for his future superstar status.

BKLYNpigeon
05-15-2012, 05:24 PM
Good thing he got that Extension and Adidas deal.

Rose will have to change his game.

Draco
05-15-2012, 05:25 PM
"The surgery went extremely well. Really no surprises. It was pretty routine.

"We're at this point very optimistic. ... We think of recovery as the long process that's in stages. But the short answer is the time frame we believe an athlete of this caliber generally requires is about 8-12 months. Sometimes shorter, sometimes longer."
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/7934110/doctor-says-chicago-bulls-derrick-rose-8-12-months-acl-surgery

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-15-2012, 05:31 PM
Gilbert Arenas 2.0?

justinnum1
05-15-2012, 05:31 PM
Good thing he got that Extension and Adidas deal.

Rose will have to change his game.

Or the bulls medical staff will have to be more careful with him. Someone as athletic as rose can get hurt when they are less than 100% and playing like they are fully healthy. But yea, needs to adjust his game is he is playing hurt.

D12 fan
05-15-2012, 05:32 PM
Damn Chicago,I feel bad for their fans.Get well Drose.

Master Mind
05-15-2012, 05:33 PM
:sigh:

Hate to see injuries

Chill_Will_24
05-15-2012, 05:35 PM
Damn! This could turn into another Gil Arenas situation. With out his explosivness gil went from agent 0 to nothing. I think the same will happen to rose if he can't get that back to at least close to what it was. That's is the danger with players who's game is primarily dependent on there athleticism. It's not looking good for his future superstar status.

This

BSardogan
05-15-2012, 05:37 PM
Rose it too much of a natural talent to fall back as hard as Arenas did. His athleticism might be his primary weapon, but outside of that he also just has pure skill and really, even without his crazy finishing at the rim, he still would be one of the better point guards.

Also this injury had almost nothing to do with being injury prone, he just landed awkwardly and had the worst of luck in the world. To hear this is horrible news and Rose must be devestated. But I don't see him start regressing at this point of his career already. Let's hope he comes back even stronger from all this.

JWO35
05-15-2012, 05:39 PM
Its now or never for the Detroit Pistons in the Central Division now :jumpy:








jk we suck

spreadeagle
05-15-2012, 05:39 PM
David Robinson situation??? they suck get a top pick and then Rose comes back the following year and BAM you good again

mjokc
05-15-2012, 05:41 PM
Rose it too much of a natural talent to fall back as hard as Arenas did. His athleticism might be his primary weapon, but outside of that he also just has pure skill and really, even without his crazy finishing at the rim, he still would be one of the better point guards.

Also this injury had almost nothing to do with being injury prone, he just landed awkwardly and had the worst of luck in the world. To hear this is horrible news and Rose must be devestated. But I don't see him start regressing at this point of his career already. Let's hope he comes back even stronger from all this.

There is a true possibility that Rose will never be the same. He doesn't have any natural skills besides explosive athleticism and that was taken away. He will always be held back by either physical limitations or mental limitations being afraid not to re injure is knee.

kobebabe
05-15-2012, 05:41 PM
Wow! That really sucks!!! Rose is one of my favorite players and I hate to see this happen to him. I wonder if we saw the best of Rose last year when he won MVP? Doubt if he will ever be the same again. I wish him and the Bulls the best

mustaine
05-15-2012, 05:43 PM
Manchester United captain Nemanja Vidic who is 30 years old had a similar knee injury (even worse if anything) in December. First projections said he would be a year out and now they are expecting him back for preseason training which starts in July. They're being careful and talking "worst case scenario" but in a lot of cases it works faster. I'm sure he'll be back sooner than anyone thinks (or at least I'm hopeful).

Chill_Will_24
05-15-2012, 05:50 PM
Rose it too much of a natural talent to fall back as hard as Arenas did. His athleticism might be his primary weapon, but outside of that he also just has pure skill and really, even without his crazy finishing at the rim, he still would be one of the better point guards.

Also this injury had almost nothing to do with being injury prone, he just landed awkwardly and had the worst of luck in the world. To hear this is horrible news and Rose must be devestated. But I don't see him start regressing at this point of his career already. Let's hope he comes back even stronger from all this.

:laugh2: Derrick Rose has nothing outside his athleticism to make him a relevant pg if he loses his athleticism.

bodupp311
05-15-2012, 05:51 PM
Looks like a majority of this forum can't read. No surprise at all.

justinnum1
05-15-2012, 05:54 PM
Damn! This could turn into another Gil Arenas situation. With out his explosivness gil went from agent 0 to nothing. I think the same will happen to rose if he can't get that back to at least close to what it was. That's is the danger with players who's game is primarily dependent on there athleticism. It's not looking good for his future superstar status.

thats like the worst case scenario

Lakerhead4ever
05-15-2012, 05:58 PM
good to see heat fans be classy towards this situation.

bodupp311
05-15-2012, 06:02 PM
-It was a routine procedure, fixed 3 tears, 1 big and 2 that were of little consequence.
-Derrick is being a good boy and doing everything he needs to do.
-20 years ago this was a career ending injury but thankfully now its just a minor thing in a players career.
-The timeframe an athlete of Rose requires to be able to play is 8-12 months, some less, some more.
-They've mapped out an optimial rehab schedule designed to reduce risk.
-Although he'll likely be good to play within 12 months, it will probably be longer until he's at his pre-injury levels
-Rose is in Chicago right now, but they don't yet know where Rose will be doing the majority of his rehab. Regardless of where, he will have the best people surrounding him at all times.
-What they saw in surgery is EXACTLY what they saw on the MRI, which isn't always the case. The damage to his knee was actually more minor than a lot of torn ACLs
-Rehab starts immediately, he is doing range of motion and other tests.
-Statistically reinjury is more common for people who tear their ACL in THE OTHER KNEE. It's not very high overall though. They know how to reduce the risk but not how to completely eliminate it. That is the last remaining hurdle to mastering torn ACLs. Due to his age and physical shape, Rose is much less likely to reinjury his knee.
-There will be a mental hurdle that he will probably have to overcome even after he's able to play. Derrick will be able to do basketball related activities fairly early on in the process, so he will have a lot of time to trust his knee again. But when he starts contact practice it will be another hurdle.
-Being able to clear the mental hurdle is a reason why players do not get back to preinjury levels. Their rehab includes constantly emphasizing getting over the mental hurdle and letting him learn to trust his knee again.
-Players will be "back" to a certain level but for the most case it takes longer to get to pre-injury levels. Some people can get "back" in as little as 6 months. Some people it might take 3 years. No way of knowing beforehand.

No meniscus removed which is GREAT news. So this "ruled out 8-12 months" is bs. So y'all can relax on this Bulls are screwed typical Psd overreaction crap.

jayjay33
05-15-2012, 06:06 PM
Rose it too much of a natural talent to fall back as hard as Arenas did. His athleticism might be his primary weapon, but outside of that he also just has pure skill and really, even without his crazy finishing at the rim, he still would be one of the better point guards.

Also this injury had almost nothing to do with being injury prone, he just landed awkwardly and had the worst of luck in the world. To hear this is horrible news and Rose must be devestated. But I don't see him start regressing at this point of his career already. Let's hope he comes back even stronger from all this.

It's not his jumping that's the deal breaker it's that blow by speed, if rose can't blow by people anymore then he is done.

Name when one elite pg without super blow by quicks...etc rondo, rose, Westbrook or mad finesse game and a crazy pure jay.....etc Nash billiups, cassell.......

BSardogan
05-15-2012, 06:08 PM
:laugh2: Derrick Rose has nothing outside his athleticism to make him a relevant pg if he loses his athleticism.

If with the loss of athleticism you mean every single aspect of it, of course. Same thing goes for every single other guard in the league, since athleticism on itself is a big term.

But just because Rose has a torn ACL and has had surgery doesn't mean he'll completely lose the ability to explode off the dribble or accelerate to finish at the rim. Also, he still has a decent mid/3pt game and court vision, and to say he won't even be a relevant PG just because he'll be held back (probably mentally as well as physically, as mentioned by some others in this topic) by some injury is borderline crazy.

ManRam
05-15-2012, 06:09 PM
Devastating.

Hopefully it's 8, and not 12. There's obviously a HUGE difference between the two. Basically means playing the bulk of the season or not.

Hopefully it goes as smoothly as it can...

Donuts365
05-15-2012, 06:10 PM
if rondo didnt have blow by speed he would be 10 times better rose at any speed should be able to get by people his floater is too beast for him to decline like ga

Gators123
05-15-2012, 06:10 PM
I wonder if hes going to stop using the jump stop once he comes back?

justinnum1
05-15-2012, 06:11 PM
good to see heat fans be classy towards this situation.

Nothing is worse than injuries.

BSardogan
05-15-2012, 06:14 PM
It's not his jumping that's the deal breaker it's that blow by speed, if rose can't blow by people anymore then he is done.

Name when one elite pg without super blow by quicks...etc rondo, rose, Westbrook or mad finesse game and a crazy pure jay.....etc Nash billiups, cassell.......

He won't be playing on that D-Rose MVP level anymore, agreed on that. I'm just saying, even if this injury does impact his usual game a little, I don't see him falling back at Arenas' level so quickly. No point in including those names in this argument, because I know Rose without any blow-by speed is Not a tier 1, elite point guard anymore.

torocan
05-15-2012, 06:14 PM
Ouch. Really bad break for the Bulls.

Guessing their FO will have to do some serious scrambling in the off season now. :(

8kobe24
05-15-2012, 06:15 PM
Sorry to hear that Bulls fans, its a Damn shame. I like DRose too... I guess the silver lining is he is still young and can recover quicker. I say is get that surgery on that knee, rest, do that platelet-rich plasma therapy in Germany, rest some more, and rehab with the best Tim Grover. We should see DRose 2.0 in about a year. Good Luck:clap:

naps
05-15-2012, 06:19 PM
****ing injury!! They should hurry him back though. No need to re-aggregate the knee. They need to make sure Rose is absolutely 100% when he returns.

5ass
05-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Damn.

GoPacers33
05-15-2012, 06:23 PM
Pacers Central Division champs 2012-2013

Hawkeye15
05-15-2012, 06:28 PM
12 months is worst case scenario for an ACL surgery, unless they found more damage. I think Bulls fans can expect to see him midseason next year.

nycericanguy
05-15-2012, 06:31 PM
That sounds really bad, Iman Shumpert's timeline after surgery was said to be 6-8 months, sounds like Rose's was much worse.

LakersIn5
05-15-2012, 06:35 PM
i hate rose and the bulls before but im kinda sad for them now especially rose. i hope spurs 1997 happen again. drobinson got injured which led the spurs to getting the no. 1 pick who became duncan.

yeah thats how sad i am for them

Weezy
05-15-2012, 06:36 PM
David Robinson situation??? they suck get a top pick and then Rose comes back the following year and BAM you good again

I was actually thinking about this same exact thing also.

Sad for rose and the Bulls. Hope for the best for him. I think he will come back strong.

GiantsSwaGG
05-15-2012, 06:37 PM
I thought this was a Glibert Arenas thread


Rose might be the new Arenas!

JasonJohnHorn
05-15-2012, 06:37 PM
Worst case scenario... the Bulls will be looking like the Magic after Penny's knee injury.
Best case scenario... The Bulls absolutely tank next season like the Robinsonless Spurs and end up with another frist overall pic...

I honestly hope that Rose returns to form and is a 100% when he returns. He seemed to rush back for the playoffs this year... hopefully he takes all the time he needs to and get back to 100%. This league needs players like Rose.

Bruno
05-15-2012, 06:38 PM
wow man. we saw what happened to arenas, roy, and some of these other knee issues. bulls fans might find this absurd, but moving boozer for a pick in this years draft, and sitting rose all of next season might be an excellent long term decision.

they cut bloated salary, get a pick in this years draft, punt next season and get a great pick for 2014 with a health 25 year old Rose. like another poster said, this could be a david robinson/SAS 1997 type situation.

GiantsSwaGG
05-15-2012, 06:59 PM
Rose won't be the same and it's unfortunate

k.smith904
05-15-2012, 07:04 PM
awesome.

Now we just need Brandon Marshall to get hit by a bus .

jayjay33
05-15-2012, 07:10 PM
12 months is worst case scenario for an ACL surgery, unless they found more damage. I think Bulls fans can expect to see him midseason next year.

Yeah but how will he be. The only person i ever remmeber getting their explosivness back is baron davis at ucla...he came back with a bionic knee and was more explosive than before he got hurt, but everybody else has fallen of. An rose is not 6-10 like a Mcdyess or Amare where he can get by with effort and a mid range jay. He NEEDS his speed. He can't make a living shooting jumpers especially if guys no longer have to back up of him. Without his speed the best he can hope for his andre miller and I don't think he has that kind of finesse in his game. He needs to get back at least 85-90 percent of his blow by speed or he becomes a role player.

MJ-BULLS
05-15-2012, 07:11 PM
With the history of ACL injuries, a time span of being out up to 12 months was guaranteed. but the good thing is that Rose is still a very young player indeed. Dr. Cole mentioned that age has a lot to do with the recovery. Also that the injury wasn't severe like other acl surgeries he has had.

I'm not worried. he is still going to be the same explosive player he is, he might not go all out and go full force to the rim with reckless abandon. but i know he is going to refine his game with adding some post up moves and improve his shooting abilities.

all in all, I'd say he's coming back early January.

jayjay33
05-15-2012, 07:16 PM
With the history of ACL injuries, a time span of being out up to 12 months was guaranteed. but the good thing is that Rose is still a very young player indeed. Dr. Cole mentioned that age has a lot to do with the recovery. Also that the injury wasn't severe like other acl surgeries he has had.

I'm not worried. he is still going to be the same explosive player he is, he might not go all out and go full force to the rim with reckless abandon. but i know he is going to refine his game with adding some post up moves and improve his shooting abilities.

all in all, I'd say he's coming back early January.

Lets hope, good thing is he's got a nasty floater, even with out his hops as long as he can still blow by people he can play at a high level. But if he loses more than 10-15% of that chi town is in trouble.......

Chronz
05-15-2012, 07:18 PM
While I do agree with Bulls fans and believe Rose can come back and dominate at a near MVP level, I also think his prime years will fall off alot sooner now. I have a feeling he will be done within 5-6 years.

Kashmir13579
05-15-2012, 07:21 PM
As much as i dislike and root against The Bulls, you hate to see this.. Wish D-Rose the best of luck in his recovery..

Kashmir13579
05-15-2012, 07:22 PM
While I do agree with Bulls fans and believe Rose can come back and dominate at a near MVP level, I also think his prime years will fall off alot sooner now. I have a feeling he will be done within 5-6 years.

Can you name some other players that made it back to 100% after this type of injury?

meloman1592
05-15-2012, 07:25 PM
one less team to compete with miami. Get well rose

Sinestro
05-15-2012, 07:32 PM
wow man. we saw what happened to arenas, roy, and some of these other knee issues. bulls fans might find this absurd, but moving boozer for a pick in this years draft, and sitting rose all of next season might be an excellent long term decision.

they cut bloated salary, get a pick in this years draft, punt next season and get a great pick for 2014 with a health 25 year old Rose. like another poster said, this could be a david robinson/SAS 1997 type situation.

It all depends IMO if Rose can come back in January at the latest I say don't tank if it is 12 months, I'd rather tank the next season and try to secure a top pick

fadedmario
05-15-2012, 07:33 PM
Wow - the Bulls franchise just went down the tubes. I'm calling it now - Detroit will win another title before Chicago does. Not even hating either. I actually wanted CHicago to win it this year.

pd1dish
05-15-2012, 07:41 PM
i thought this was kind of expected. it takes about 12 months to really be fully recovered back to 100% with this injury and i think that management learned the hard way to not rush Rose back even if he thinks he can go. i just want him to bounce back and still have a great career. if it means no Rose next season, then be it, because i dont want him to come back early with the possibility of his career being completely shattered.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-15-2012, 07:43 PM
Damn, man... Wish him a speedy recovery.

tbone2171
05-15-2012, 07:45 PM
I feel bad for D. Rose...for Bulls fans though, not at all

meloman1592
05-15-2012, 07:49 PM
I feel bad for D. Rose...for Bulls fans though, not at all

this

pd1dish
05-15-2012, 07:51 PM
wow man. we saw what happened to arenas, roy, and some of these other knee issues. bulls fans might find this absurd, but moving boozer for a pick in this years draft, and sitting rose all of next season might be an excellent long term decision.

they cut bloated salary, get a pick in this years draft, punt next season and get a great pick for 2014 with a health 25 year old Rose. like another poster said, this could be a david robinson/SAS 1997 type situation.

yeah, im all for sort of letting next season go if it means a healthy Rose. itd be great if we could move Boozer for basically ANYTHING of good value. we also have Nikola Mirotic coming over from Real Madrid for the 2013-'14 season who is expected to be a big part of the team. i see us being back in contention in 2013, but next season, even if Rose comes back, is going to be a disappointing year.

Chronz
05-15-2012, 08:07 PM
Can you name some other players that made it back to 100% after this type of injury?

Mostly bigmen but among guards Im pretty sure Baron Davis did, Jamal Crawford, Lowry. Not sure if they tore both ACL/MCL but at least one of them.

Im wondering whats worse, requiring MF or tearing a lig.

Dade County
05-15-2012, 08:14 PM
this is so f'ed up.

jimm120
05-15-2012, 08:14 PM
8-12 months seems unreal.

damn, and I thought that Iman Shumpert's 6-8 months was a lot. Wow.

Redskins10
05-15-2012, 08:15 PM
I think he's done. He's going down the T-mac/Gil path.

Sssmush
05-15-2012, 08:58 PM
For sure one of the worst injuries in the history of the league, in terms of a bona fide superstar going down. Chicago, Adidas and the NBA are for sure taking JP-Morgan-Chase-like losses on this one. When Jordan left the Bulls because Bulls' management said they were intent on "rebuilding", Jordan commented that the Cubs had been "rebuilding for 100 years." As of 2012, Jordan is still 100% right.

Look for Kyrie Irving and CP3 to start getting more and more crazy hype about being the best/most amazing/dangerous weapon in the league. Not so much good old Wade, though, although he is probably the most deserving, because hyping him too much might seem to diminish Lebron, and there is still major marketing investment in Lebron.

cheaptrikz
05-15-2012, 09:06 PM
A lot work needs to be put in by rose and bulls to make sure he comes back at his healthiest

northsider
05-15-2012, 09:15 PM
Damn.

Evolution23
05-15-2012, 09:15 PM
That really does suck. I hope the knicks can build something special now that the Bulls won't be contending next year.

yoseppii12
05-15-2012, 09:17 PM
From what I've heard from guys that work on the training staff for the White Sox say that with ACL injuries you are best to hold them off the court as long as possible and rehab until both legs are the same. Sometimes the problem is they come back after getting surgery on the left, rehab it get it strong again, and then the right goes down because its actually weaker.

fadedmario
05-15-2012, 09:29 PM
For sure one of the worst injuries in the history of the league, in terms of a bona fide superstar going down. Chicago, Adidas and the NBA are for sure taking JP-Morgan-Chase-like losses on this one. When Jordan left the Bulls because Bulls' management said they were intent on "rebuilding", Jordan commented that the Cubs had been "rebuilding for 100 years." As of 2012, Jordan is still 100% right.

Look for Kyrie Irving and CP3 to start getting more and more crazy hype about being the best/most amazing/dangerous weapon in the league. Not so much good old Wade, though, although he is probably the most deserving, because hyping him too much might seem to diminish Lebron, and there is still major marketing investment in Lebron.

lol - Kyrie Irving is made of glass. I'd bet anyone on this board $100 that he never plays a full 82.

GiantsSwaGG
05-15-2012, 09:29 PM
My pray he comes back to his MVP self

BKLYNpigeon
05-15-2012, 09:32 PM
hopefully the bulls can get into the lottery and end up with the #1 pick again with a .5% percent chance.

AddiX
05-15-2012, 10:27 PM
Rose is done, without that speed and first step and hops he will be a shell of himself. I'm not saying he wont get back on the court, but his game was based of that insae burst, that's gone now.

eibbor
05-15-2012, 10:34 PM
This sucks. I'm not a Bulls fan but I am a BB fan & I hate this.

Swashcuff
05-15-2012, 11:26 PM
This sucks. I'm not a Bulls fan but I am a BB fan & I hate this.

The exact same thing I came into this thread to say word for word :cry:

roshan3ai
05-15-2012, 11:30 PM
I hate hearing things like this.

Really hope he returns soon for the sake of the NBA

willabeast77
05-15-2012, 11:31 PM
These things happen for a reason. :pray:

bears88
05-15-2012, 11:33 PM
wow man. we saw what happened to arenas, roy, and some of these other knee issues. bulls fans might find this absurd, but moving boozer for a pick in this years draft, and sitting rose all of next season might be an excellent long term decision.

they cut bloated salary, get a pick in this years draft, punt next season and get a great pick for 2014 with a health 25 year old Rose. like another poster said, this could be a david robinson/SAS 1997 type situation.

problem is who wants Boozer's contract ???

kozelkid
05-15-2012, 11:35 PM
Some people really don't know much about ACL injuries. So I'm gonna set this straight for some of you guys.

You don't lose your explosiveness from tearing a ligament. You get your explosiveness from your MUSCLES not your LIGAMENTS. Granted, there is legit fear that screwing your ACL can cause you to be injury prone for the rest of the career, but sports medicine has also come a long way as far as knees go, recently.

Essentially, the main concern is that Rose rehabs and recovers properly and it doesn't become recurring. At the very least, the surgery was a success and there appears to be no infection so he at least got through that. But again, there should be no reason that his explosiveness or speed disappears; that makes zero physiological sense. More injury prone or potential to tear his ACL again? Perhaps. Lose explosiveness? No.

A lot of you need to stick to your day jobs.

3ballbomber
05-15-2012, 11:36 PM
These things happen for a reason. :pray:
i love the positivity!

Horrible news. We need a player/person in the NBA like Derrick Rose. Let's give him positive vibes for a quick and strong recovery process!

Swashcuff
05-15-2012, 11:37 PM
Some people really don't know much about ACL injuries. So I'm gonna set this straight for some of you guys.

You don't lose your explosiveness from tearing a ligament. You get your explosiveness from your MUSCLES not your LIGAMENTS. Granted, there is legit fear that screwing your ACL can cause you to be injury prone for the rest of the career, but sports medicine has also come a long way as far as knees go, recently.

Essentially, the main concern is that Rose rehabs and recovers properly and it doesn't become recurring. At the very least, the surgery was a success and there appears to be no infection so he at least got through that. But again, there should be no reason that his explosiveness or speed disappears; that makes zero physiological sense. More injury prone or potential to tear his ACL again? Perhaps. Lose explosiveness? No.

A lot of you need to stick to your day jobs.

All you really had to say was Baron Davis. You're right though. However my question is how would it affect him down the road, like when he hits the wrong side of 30 thereabout.

kozelkid
05-15-2012, 11:40 PM
Here's a recap on ESPN's Dr. Michael Kaplan being interviewed about Rose's injury.


This is EPSN's medical analyst and was on the radio with Carmen, Jurko & Harry. I thought it was an informative interview because of how much talk and speculation there is about if Rose will ever be the same, how much he might have to change his game, etc.

There isn't a snip of the interview by itself, but it starts at about 39:00 minutes.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/chicago/play?id=7874840

Some quotes from the Dr.

- I don't think it will affect his career. Though a major blow.

- Previous injuries may have set him up, but might have more due to with the cutting/slashing style he plays.

- Success chance is in the 90s for coming back and doing everything, even as acrobatic as he is.

- Was not the shoes.

- It being late in the game didn't have any special bearing on it.

- Each ACL incident is different, won't know full damage that could be done till they do the surgery - if other damage was done.

- Some feeling that surgery should wait till motion is restored. Should be within next few weeks.

- Healing takes 6-9 months, can cheat *a little* with elite athletes. Surrounding muscles must be strengthened.

- Shortened season was likely a contributor, same as increased incidents in NFL during its lockout season.

Will he be better?

- He won't be better. But its reasonable to think he will be as good as he was, barring anything worrying they find during the surgery. Everything would point to him coming back 100%.

kozelkid
05-15-2012, 11:43 PM
All you really had to say was Baron Davis. You're right though. However my question is how would it affect him down the road, like when he hits the wrong side of 30 thereabout.

That's a fair question. And Chronz correctly pointed to his prime likely being shortened. But to start comparing him to Roy or Penny is incredibly premature not to mention two COMPLETELY different contexts.

Roy is missing cartilage and was too painful to move.

Penny had microfracture surgery among many other issues. And again, knowledge on knees and sports medicine has come SUCH a long way since the 90s. It's simply remarkable.

I'm a little concerned about down the line, but it also is good to know that Rose has an awesome work ethic and will adjust properly as well. As long as Rose properly rehabs and doesn't rush back, I'm not worried. It sucks that essentially two seasons have went down the drain, but maybe we land a great pick if we pull a Spurs type tank. Unfortunately, I can't imagine our team going through with it even thought I think that's the best option.

Swashcuff
05-15-2012, 11:57 PM
That's a fair question. And Chronz correctly pointed to his prime likely being shortened. But to start comparing him to Roy or Penny is incredibly premature not to mention two COMPLETELY different contexts.

Roy is missing cartilage and was too painful to move.

Penny had microfracture surgery among many other issues. And again, knowledge on knees and sports medicine has come SUCH a long way since the 90s. It's simply remarkable.

I'm a little concerned about down the line, but it also is good to know that Rose has an awesome work ethic and will adjust properly as well. As long as Rose properly rehabs and doesn't rush back, I'm not worried. It sucks that essentially two seasons have went down the drain, but maybe we land a great pick if we pull a Spurs type tank. Unfortunately, I can't imagine our team going through with it even thought I think that's the best option.

What separates him from Baron Davis greatly in this scenario.

Kuya_Clive
05-16-2012, 01:09 AM
Sorry to hear that Bulls fans, its a Damn shame. I like DRose too... I guess the silver lining is he is still young and can recover quicker. I say is get that surgery on that knee, rest, do that platelet-rich plasma therapy in Germany, rest some more, and rehab with the best Tim Grover. We should see DRose 2.0 in about a year. Good Luck:clap:

they did give Rose platelet rich blood plasma. I read that in an article somewhere in the bulls forum.

They also used the patellar tendon to create the graft for the new acl which is stronger than the original acl. Rose should re-gain most of his athleticism back because he has crazy work ethic. Like kozel said earlier, he just needs to regain normal function of his knee and work out his affected leg's muscles back to normal, which is obviously easier said than done. I do see Rose developing into a much better playmaker because of this injury though.

Mckphins
05-16-2012, 01:19 AM
I love to hate this guy, but you can't wish anything like this on him. The league needs the guy, hope he comes back strong

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 03:30 AM
Some people really don't know much about ACL injuries. So I'm gonna set this straight for some of you guys.

You don't lose your explosiveness from tearing a ligament. You get your explosiveness from your MUSCLES not your LIGAMENTS. Granted, there is legit fear that screwing your ACL can cause you to be injury prone for the rest of the career, but sports medicine has also come a long way as far as knees go, recently.

Essentially, the main concern is that Rose rehabs and recovers properly and it doesn't become recurring. At the very least, the surgery was a success and there appears to be no infection so he at least got through that. But again, there should be no reason that his explosiveness or speed disappears; that makes zero physiological sense. More injury prone or potential to tear his ACL again? Perhaps. Lose explosiveness? No.

A lot of you need to stick to your day jobs.

Oh sounds good could you give us some examples of some nba high flyers who had this injury and got all of there explosiveness back? Cause I have only ever seen the 1 guy that I mentioned when this thread was first started "Baron Davis", and he actually came back better. That doesn't seem like good odds to me. So maybe you could name a few more?

MJ-BULLS
05-16-2012, 03:35 AM
That's a fair question. And Chronz correctly pointed to his prime likely being shortened. But to start comparing him to Roy or Penny is incredibly premature not to mention two COMPLETELY different contexts.

Roy is missing cartilage and was too painful to move.

Penny had microfracture surgery among many other issues. And again, knowledge on knees and sports medicine has come SUCH a long way since the 90s. It's simply remarkable.

I'm a little concerned about down the line, but it also is good to know that Rose has an awesome work ethic and will adjust properly as well. As long as Rose properly rehabs and doesn't rush back, I'm not worried. It sucks that essentially two seasons have went down the drain, but maybe we land a great pick if we pull a Spurs type tank. Unfortunately, I can't imagine our team going through with it even thought I think that's the best option.

you really think we are going to tank. i dont think so...

the avenger
05-16-2012, 03:45 AM
We will see wether the Bulls can cope with another blow of an injured rising star and wether Rose is a real champion or not...

Remember 1986 when Jordan broke his foot and sat out 6 months? The next season, he came back as a beast better than ever before...

CHANGO
05-16-2012, 03:48 AM
WHAT the ****!?? That sucks. DAMN. What a shame.

Kyrie Irving
05-16-2012, 03:54 AM
:laugh:

Donot let the dooor hitt u on the way out.

Kyries time!!!

Canterbury
05-16-2012, 04:04 AM
^Excellent first post.

LGhost
05-16-2012, 08:48 AM
:guns:
:laugh:

Donot let the dooor hitt u on the way out.

Kyries time!!!

Swashcuff
05-16-2012, 08:55 AM
you really think we are going to tank. i dont think so...

I may have been in your guys' best interest but in all honesty I think you're too good of a team to fall out of the post season without Rose. That defense is just too solid and if Deng, Noah and Boozer are healthy I think you guys need to lay a royal egg if you're going to get into the lottery and even then you're not guaranteed to be better down the road (dare I mention Tyrus Thomas).

LGhost
05-16-2012, 08:56 AM
Thibs will quit before he allows any tanking

Greet
05-16-2012, 09:04 AM
Oh yeah I'm sure Thibs will quit his job.

LGhost
05-16-2012, 09:09 AM
oh yeah i'm sure thibs will quit his job.


You sure?

Jumi
05-16-2012, 09:17 AM
Just sign Nash! Duh!!

That would allow DRose to fully rehab and keep the team in the hunt. I believe Nash could hold things together until DRose is good to go. Whatever the front office does will let the fans know what direction they're headed.

celtNYpatsHeels
05-16-2012, 09:29 AM
I think that it would be very wise for Rose to sit out all of next year. The Bulls should want to sit him out to protect their long term investement, and Rose should want to sit out so he can FULLY heal and not get re-injured.

Sucks for Chicago, but they still have a good team without him. They can sign Felton, Brooks, Dragic, Miller, etc and still be an elite team.

c-rock
05-16-2012, 10:05 AM
Sorry about your bad luck with losing Rose. As a Trailblazer fan, i'm well versed in the curse of injuries.(Roy, Oden). I think Nash has found his new home. Anybody but Miami next year.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2012, 10:17 AM
Yeah but how will he be. The only person i ever remmeber getting their explosivness back is baron davis at ucla...he came back with a bionic knee and was more explosive than before he got hurt, but everybody else has fallen of. An rose is not 6-10 like a Mcdyess or Amare where he can get by with effort and a mid range jay. He NEEDS his speed. He can't make a living shooting jumpers especially if guys no longer have to back up of him. Without his speed the best he can hope for his andre miller and I don't think he has that kind of finesse in his game. He needs to get back at least 85-90 percent of his blow by speed or he becomes a role player.

for an ACL? You get it all back that young. If Rose has a successful surgery, and rehabs right, no reason to believe he isn't as explosive as before.

ACL repair has come so far in that last 10-15 years.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2012, 10:19 AM
They would be wise to amnesty Boozer this summer, and see if they can make due with what they have (not tanking, but lets be honest, they are round 1 roadkill next playoffs without a healthy Rose). Assume Rose is 100% to start the 2013-14 season, with a top 10-12 pick added, and free agent space to get something next summer.

ChicagoJ
05-16-2012, 10:32 AM
I think the bulls can be a playoff team next year, but not sure what seed. They won't be a contender like they were last year, but still a decent team.

I'd love to see rose back, but whatever time it takes to heal so be it. I just want him healthy and as good as ever at some point.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah but how will he be. The only person i ever remmeber getting their explosivness back is baron davis at ucla...he came back with a bionic knee and was more explosive than before he got hurt, but everybody else has fallen of. An rose is not 6-10 like a Mcdyess or Amare where he can get by with effort and a mid range jay. He NEEDS his speed. He can't make a living shooting jumpers especially if guys no longer have to back up of him. Without his speed the best he can hope for his andre miller and I don't think he has that kind of finesse in his game. He needs to get back at least 85-90 percent of his blow by speed or he becomes a role player.

for an ACL? You get it all back that young. If Rose has a successful surgery, and rehabs right, no reason to believe he isn't as explosive as before.

ACL repair has come so far in that last 10-15 years.

In regular people sure. In elite level NBA athletes I can't think of any who got it all back. Some people on here keep saying, that but the proof is in the pudding.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 11:23 AM
you really think we are going to tank. i dont think so...

I don't, unfortunately.


Oh sounds good could you give us some examples of some nba high flyers who had this injury and got all of there explosiveness back? Cause I have only ever seen the 1 guy that I mentioned when this thread was first started "Baron Davis", and he actually came back better. That doesn't seem like good odds to me. So maybe you could name a few more?

I can't think that many high flyers off the top of my head who specifically had an ACL injury and weren't the same.

When we think of broken promising careers for young players, they tend be far more complicated knee injuries than simply tearing an ACL, like Livingston tearing his ACL, MCL and meniscus. Or many players like Martin having microfracture surgery, a technique that hasn't been perfected til the last few years generally.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 11:26 AM
In regular people sure. In elite level NBA athletes I can't think of any who got it all back. Some people on here keep saying, that but the proof is in the pudding.

Like I said, give the examples of athletes who have specifically regressed from just an ACL tear.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-16-2012, 12:00 PM
They would be wise to amnesty Boozer this summer, and see if they can make due with what they have (not tanking, but lets be honest, they are round 1 roadkill next playoffs without a healthy Rose). Assume Rose is 100% to start the 2013-14 season, with a top 10-12 pick added, and free agent space to get something next summer.

It still wouldn't be that much cap space. Probably about 15 mil when they decline Rip's option. But even then they only have 5 guys on the roster and wouldn't be able to do/sign much. Not sure if that's worth it in the front office's eyes.

If they wanted to fully rebuild, they'd ship out Deng and/or Noah. At least 1 of them for pick(s) + Expiring. Then amnesty boozer. Lets say they do that with Noah (since he holds more value in my eyes). That would leave them with only about 35 mil committed in 2013-14 with Rose, Deng, Taj, and Butler + 2012 draft pick and 2013 draft pick(s). So roughly 38 mil with around 20 million to fill 5-6 spots, meaning they could sign someone of significant value that summer and still have some cash to add role players.

If they do ship out both Deng and Noah, they'd have everything just mentioned, except an extra 14 in cap space. So they'd have around 34 mil to spend on 6-7 players which depending on who is available could land a haul. This route could be the way to go, considering 2013-14 we could have Mirotic coming over on a cheap rookie deal, plus then we are 2 years closer to the Bobcats pick being unprotected giving it more value.

Edit: All those numbers listed are assuming Asik signs elsewhere this summer. If the Bulls are able to retain him, those numbers would obviously be affected to include whatever his salary is.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 12:09 PM
In regular people sure. In elite level NBA athletes I can't think of any who got it all back. Some people on here keep saying, that but the proof is in the pudding.

Like I said, give the examples of athletes who have specifically regressed from just an ACL tear.


Dude I'm the one who asked for some examples, so why would you ask me? If you don't know any just say that. Your the 1 saying in these times guys get back to 100% so I just asked like who? If you dont know any then really can't make that claim.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2012, 12:12 PM
In regular people sure. In elite level NBA athletes I can't think of any who got it all back. Some people on here keep saying, that but the proof is in the pudding.

it isn't microfracture surgery. Really not the end of the world if the surgeon does his job, and the player then does his. Rose should be fine.

haggis
05-16-2012, 12:21 PM
Dude I'm the one who asked for some examples, so why would you ask me? If you don't know any just say that. Your the 1 saying in these times guys get back to 100% so I just asked like who? If you dont know any then really can't make that claim.

Kyle Lowry tore his ACL and was back within 6 months at Villanova. Similar type of player to Rose.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 12:24 PM
In regular people sure. In elite level NBA athletes I can't think of any who got it all back. Some people on here keep saying, that but the proof is in the pudding.

it isn't microfracture surgery. Really not the end of the world if the surgeon does his job, and the player then does his. Rose should be fine.

So then as for as elite level NBA althetes go rose is a test case? Cause that what it's starting to sound like. This thread is 8 pages long and the only name I have seen is "baron davis". This is the psd usually by now 10 different guys would have thrown out names by now. At least that is how it usually goes. To me, just to me, that's not really a good sign.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 12:28 PM
Dude I'm the one who asked for some examples, so why would you ask me? If you don't know any just say that. Your the 1 saying in these times guys get back to 100% so I just asked like who? If you dont know any then really can't make that claim.

Kyle Lowry tore his ACL and was back within 6 months at Villanova. Similar type of player to Rose.

In what way is Kyle Lowry similar to rose? Lowry is not a high flyer he is not even a low flyer.....and he also doesnt just blow by every guy you put in front of him. So what super athletism excatly did he get back too?

boolish
05-16-2012, 01:27 PM
rose was tentative this year with his minor injuries. his major obstacle will be mental, trusting his knee.

DoubleDragon
05-16-2012, 01:48 PM
Wow.
Well my prayers are with him and Chicago's fans and team for his speedy recovery. (closet Bulls fan here. Grew up in Chicago going to Bulls, Cubs, Blackhawks games)
No matter how much he shreds teams (mine included), it's a bummer to have him out. The league feels his loss, no doubt.
Get Well D-Rose!

(now how bout a few prayers for my lakers):pray:

Hawkeye15
05-16-2012, 01:51 PM
So then as for as elite level NBA althetes go rose is a test case? Cause that what it's starting to sound like. This thread is 8 pages long and the only name I have seen is "baron davis". This is the psd usually by now 10 different guys would have thrown out names by now. At least that is how it usually goes. To me, just to me, that's not really a good sign.

well, there are maybe 3% of athletes with Rose's explosiveness, so you are going to have trouble finding examples similar to him exactly, because there are very few like him. Fact is, many, and I mean MANY, players get back to the exact same speed/explosion ability, if not better.

Why would Rose be any different?

Chronz
05-16-2012, 01:59 PM
So then as for as elite level NBA althetes go rose is a test case? Cause that what it's starting to sound like. This thread is 8 pages long and the only name I have seen is "baron davis". This is the psd usually by now 10 different guys would have thrown out names by now. At least that is how it usually goes. To me, just to me, that's not really a good sign.

Jamal Crawford came back didnt he?

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 02:11 PM
well, there are maybe 3% of athletes with Rose's explosiveness, so you are going to have trouble finding examples similar to him exactly, because there are very few like him. Fact is, many, and I mean MANY, players get back to the exact same speed/explosion ability, if not better.
Why would Rose be any different?



???????

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 02:25 PM
Heres a link I found http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1177651-10-nba-players-that-suffered-torn-acls-and-recovered-better-than-ever

look at the guys on the list. No great athletes, Not 1 guy had a game dependent on there speed and jumping ability, they never blew by or jumped over people before they got hurt. None were ever explosive except "baron" and this was the best list his research could come up with. Jamal Crawford or David west losing a little speed or jumping ability is not even noticeable with there games and pre injury athleticism . It really does seem like this might be a test case of how far modern medicine has come. Can a guy in the NBA who is an elite level "athlete" get back to being the level of "athlete" that he was or very close to it.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2012, 02:33 PM
Heres a link I found http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1177651-10-nba-players-that-suffered-torn-acls-and-recovered-better-than-ever

look at the guys on the list. Not 1 guy had a game dependent on there speed and jumping ability, they never blew by or jumped over people before they got hurt. None were ever explosive except "baron" and this was the best list his research could come up with. It really seems like this might be a test case of how far modern medicine has come.

I mean, I get what you are trying to get at. Fact is, nobody of Rose's athletic ability has gotten hurt in this way in basketball. However, a majority of players who have ACL surgeries come back to the same speed/athletic ability they had before the injury, so I just don't see why Rose wouldn't be the same.

Chronz
05-16-2012, 02:39 PM
Can you name players who never recovered?

Swashcuff
05-16-2012, 02:49 PM
I mean, I get what you are trying to get at. Fact is, nobody of Rose's athletic ability has gotten hurt in this way in basketball. However, a majority of players who have ACL surgeries come back to the same speed/athletic ability they had before the injury, so I just don't see why Rose wouldn't be the same.

And though those players aren't reliant on their speed to blow by others like Rose is its not like the were not capable of doing such they were/are capable of doing it.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 02:58 PM
Can you name players who never recovered?

I don't have to cause I'm not saying he won't. I was just wonder what all the people saying he "will" were basing it on. They seem so sure, so I thought I was out of the loop. But it doesnt seem like there have been any great athletes to tear there acl and go back to being great athletes so this seems like a test case to me.

torocan
05-16-2012, 03:09 PM
The real question here is what the Bulls FO does in the off season.

Do they assume Rose is back in 8? Back in 12? Get a solid PG? Roll with what they have (CJ/Watson)?

If Rose is out 12, do they tank it or try to snag a solid starter?

Going to be an interesting off-season.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 03:18 PM
The real question here is what the Bulls FO does in the off season.

Do they assume Rose is back in 8? Back in 12? Get a solid PG? Roll with what they have (CJ/Watson)?

If Rose is out 12, do they tank it or try to snag a solid starter?

Going to be an interesting off-season.

That's what we're all wondering. The 3 options seem this.

(A) They'll decline the final year options on Watson, Brewer and Korver and be a mediocre, at best, 1st round exit. I expect this to be the most likely. Brewer is certainly a goner with Butler taking over his role. Essentially, we'll be a very mediocre team next year. I expect this the most likely scenario as Bulls look to avoid the luxury tax considering even when Rose returns, he won't be 100% still and we aren't going to be a legit contender. With this option, we will also sign some cheap vets.

(B) We cut a bunch of players and simply tank. This is what I would do, but I can't imagine Thibs being okay with that route. It won't happen, but with Deng gone for half the season as he'll get surgery after the Olympics and Rose obviously, I'd do this and get another nice young player in the draft to pair with Rose for the future.

(C) We look to make some sort of splash or even get a high impact vet like a Billups or Nash who can hold the fort while Rose is gone and then be that missing piece come playoff time when Rose is back. While I like it, Rose won't be 100% by the playoffs so I don't see us winning it...

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 03:23 PM
So then as for as elite level NBA althetes go rose is a test case? Cause that what it's starting to sound like. This thread is 8 pages long and the only name I have seen is "baron davis". This is the psd usually by now 10 different guys would have thrown out names by now. At least that is how it usually goes. To me, just to me, that's not really a good sign.

So what?

Rose might be more of an elite athlete than other NBA players, but all NBA players are pretty much elite athletes. If so many cases of NBA players can come back 100% to their old selves, why shouldn't Rose do the same?

Again, I've been saying this for awhile, you don't lose your athleticism from tearing a LIGAMENT, you would lose it from screwing your muscle or ****ing up cartilage where it's too painful to explode (see: Penny, Roy).

Problem with tearing an ACL is that it could be recurring and might not properly healed, especially with some of the old examples. But again, as many in this thread have said, sports medicine has come a long way in just the past 5-10 years. There's no reason Rose shouldn't come back 100%, especially since surgery went 100% fine without further issues being found.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 03:25 PM
And though those players aren't reliant on their speed to blow by others like Rose is its not like the were not capable of doing such they were/are capable of doing it.

More than anything, I hate the sort of cliche that Rose is some kind of player that is super dependent on his athleticism and other NBA players are some sort of bums. To be in the NBA, you have to have elite athleticism relative to the rest of the NBA. Even someone like Brian Scalabrine, as much as we love to laugh at him, has elite athleticism relative to the general population.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 03:43 PM
So what?

Rose might be more of an elite athlete than other NBA players, but all NBA players are pretty much elite athletes. If so many cases of NBA players can come back 100% to their old selves, why shouldn't Rose do the same?

Again, I've been saying this for awhile, you don't lose your athleticism from tearing a LIGAMENT, you would lose it from screwing your muscle or ****ing up cartilage where it's too painful to explode (see: Penny, Roy).

Problem with tearing an ACL is that it could be recurring and might not properly healed, especially with some of the old examples. But again, as many in this thread have said, sports medicine has come a long way in just the past 5-10 years. There's no reason Rose shouldn't come back 100%, especially since surgery went 100% fine without further issues being found.

No they are not.....not even close some yes, but far far far from all. But their is no need to argue any further the fact that you think somebody like David west coming back from and acl is no different than rose, Tells me all I need to know.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 03:46 PM
No they are not.....not even close some yes, but far far far from all. But their is no need to argue any further the fact that you think somebody like David west coming back from and acl is no different than rose, Tells me all I need to know.

Do you honestly believe that a David West who isn't at his peak can be nearly as effective as he is in his peak? Just because West doesn't make highlight reels like Rose, doesn't mean his athleticism isn't equally important for him to maintain his level of play in the NBA. People for some reason have this notion that players that aren't athletic freaks don't use their athleticism. That's asinine.

Aside from that, thanks for being a smug ******* instead of discussing this like a respectable adult.

kdspurman
05-16-2012, 03:49 PM
Sad picture here... Really hope he makes a full recovery:

https://twitter.com/#!/IAMAGM/status/202847885254078464/photo/1

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 03:52 PM
More than anything, I hate the sort of cliche that Rose is some kind of player that is super dependent on his athleticism and other NBA players are some sort of bums. To be in the NBA, you have to have elite athleticism relative to the rest of the NBA. Even someone like Brian Scalabrine, as much as we love to laugh at him, has elite athleticism relative to the general population.

1.He is,
2. your confusing skill and height with athleticism you can go to almost any park you want and find 10-20 guys who can run faster and jump higher than scalabrine.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 04:06 PM
Do you honestly believe that a David West who isn't at his peak can be nearly as effective as he is in his peak? Just because West doesn't make highlight reels like Rose, doesn't mean his athleticism isn't equally important for him to maintain his level of play in the NBA. People for some reason have this notion that players that aren't athletic freaks don't use their athleticism. That's asinine.

Aside from that, thanks for being a smug ******* instead of discussing this like a respectable adult.

What? You wanna talk about asinine. That is aburd....there are player who's game rely on atleticism and those who don't. It is in no way equally improtant across the board. How could some who knows basketball even think that. An I don't think I was smug at all.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 04:08 PM
[/B]

1.He is,

No, he isn't. Gerald Green is. Tyrus Thomas is. Derrick Rose isn't.


2. your confusing skill and height with athleticism you can go to almost any park you want and find 10-20 guys who can run faster and jump higher than scalabrine.

Now? Probably. But when Scalabrine was good, I doubt you could find many random individuals with his height and weight who were as athletic.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 04:09 PM
What? You wanna talk about asinine. That is aburd....there are player who's game rely on atleticism and those who don't. It is in no way equally improtant across the board. How could some who knows basketball even think that. An I don't think I was smug at all.

Every player relies on athleticism. Every. Single. Player. Some more than others. Saying otherwise is asinine.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 04:18 PM
Seriously, it amazes me that people get this notion that athleticism and great fundamentals are somehow mutually exclusive for players; that Wade, Howard, Rose, etc are purely "athletes" while Duncan, Nash, Pierce, Kidd are purely fundamentally sound players. No, it doesn't work that way.

Rose might have blinding speed and explosiveness, but he also has a GREAT understanding of what angles to take and a very good timing. Whereas great athletes like Gerald Green or Tyrus Thomas, DON'T have that type of fundamentals and are mediocre because of it.

The opposite is also true for a guy like Duncan. He is still very explosive and a very quick big with great lateral quickness which is why he is a HOF and one of the greatest defenders. Whereas someone like Spencer Hawes may have great fundamentals, but will never be in the same league as Duncan cause he doesn't have near the athleticism.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2012, 04:58 PM
Jamal Crawford, Corey Brewer, Baron Davis, all come to mind as good to great athletic ability players who were even better afterwards.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 05:15 PM
Jamal Crawford, Corey Brewer, Baron Davis, all come to mind as good to great athletic ability players who were even better afterwards.

Better player maybe but neither player was ever close explosive to begin with. If anyting there shot making better.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 05:42 PM
Seriously, it amazes me that people get this notion that athleticism and great fundamentals are somehow mutually exclusive for players; that Wade, Howard, Rose, etc are purely "athletes" while Duncan, Nash, Pierce, Kidd are purely fundamentally sound players. No, it doesn't work that way.

Rose might have blinding speed and explosiveness, but he also has a GREAT understanding of what angles to take and a very good timing. Whereas great athletes like Gerald Green or Tyrus Thomas, DON'T have that type of fundamentals and are mediocre because of it.

The opposite is also true for a guy like Duncan. He is still very explosive and a very quick big with great lateral quickness which is why he is a HOF and one of the greatest defenders. Whereas someone like Spencer Hawes may have great fundamentals, but will never be in the same league as Duncan cause he doesn't have near the athleticism.

1. I think you and I have very different definition of explosive.

2. It amazes me you can't see there are those players who "rely" on there athleticism and those who "rely" on there skill. that doesn't mean the guy who rely's on skill is a bad athlete. You can be a good athlete and not be explosive. For instance, lets say that neither Nash or rose can blow by or jump over anyone who do you think is gonna be hurt by that? Can Nash still be elite whiteout the ability to blow by or jump over anyone? yes! Can rose still be elite without that ability? No!

Don't get me wrong i like D. Rose but, I think some guy's "Game" can afford give up a little speed and jumping ability. Without much fall of, I just don't think Rose is on of those guys.

effen5
05-16-2012, 05:43 PM
So what?

Rose might be more of an elite athlete than other NBA players, but all NBA players are pretty much elite athletes. If so many cases of NBA players can come back 100% to their old selves, why shouldn't Rose do the same?

Again, I've been saying this for awhile, you don't lose your athleticism from tearing a LIGAMENT, you would lose it from screwing your muscle or ****ing up cartilage where it's too painful to explode (see: Penny, Roy).

Problem with tearing an ACL is that it could be recurring and might not properly healed, especially with some of the old examples. But again, as many in this thread have said, sports medicine has come a long way in just the past 5-10 years. There's no reason Rose shouldn't come back 100%, especially since surgery went 100% fine without further issues being found.

I was listening to dr cole last night regarding rose's surgery and he said people who tear their ACL rarely tears it again.

kozelkid
05-16-2012, 05:50 PM
1. I think you and I have very different definition of explosive.

No, Duncan didn't routinely put down ridiculous dunks, although he has had some impressive ones. Instead, he had great explosiveness and quick twitch muscles which led him to being an awesome defender.


2. It amazes me you can't see there are those players who "rely" on there athleticism and those who "rely" on there skill. that doesn't mean the guy who rely's on skill is a bad athlete. You can be a good athlete and not be explosive. For instance, lets say that neither Nash or rose can blow by or jump over anyone who do you think is gonna be hurt by that? Can Nash still be elite whiteout the ability to blow by or jump over anyone? yes! Can rose still be elite without that ability? No!

There's varying degrees, I never disagreed. But Nash has enough speed as a player to be able to get past his defenders in the first place as well as being incredibly well conditioned to still play at an elite level at such an age. Does Rose use more of his athleticism than Nash? No ****. But if you lack either fundamentals or athleticism, you won't make it in this league. In that case you fall into the camp of being an athlete with no skills (Green, Tyrus, Swift, etc.) or a basketball player who doesn't have the NBA size or athleticism to make it (i.e. thousands of college players).

And yes, Rose can still be elite as evident by his elite mid range % in year two. Just like MJ or Kobe or Lebron, managed to adjust from being athletic freaks to having INCREDIBLE fundamentals (while still being supremely conditioned, you know, ATHLETICISM). You have no evidence to suggest Rose cannot make the same adjustment when called upon.


I was listening to dr cole last night regarding rose's surgery and he said people who tear their ACL rarely tears it again.

Yup. However, there is the concern that a player plays too careful with the knee that they tore their ACL, and in effect, can lead to tearing the ACL in the other knee.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 06:41 PM
No, Duncan didn't routinely put down ridiculous dunks, although he has had some impressive ones. Instead, he had great explosiveness and quick twitch muscles which led him to being an awesome defender.



There's varying degrees, I never disagreed. But Nash has enough speed as a player to be able to get past his defenders in the first place as well as being incredibly well conditioned to still play at an elite level at such an age. Does Rose use more of his athleticism than Nash? No ****. But if you lack either fundamentals or athleticism, you won't make it in this league. In that case you fall into the camp of being an athlete with no skills (Green, Tyrus, Swift, etc.) or a basketball player who doesn't have the NBA size or athleticism to make it (i.e. thousands of college players).

And yes, Rose can still be elite as evident by his elite mid range % in year two. Just like MJ or Kobe or Lebron, managed to adjust from being athletic freaks to having INCREDIBLE fundamentals (while still being supremely conditioned, you know, ATHLETICISM). You have no evidence to suggest Rose cannot make the same adjustment when called upon.



Yup. However, there is the concern that a player plays too careful with the knee that they tore their ACL, and in effect, can lead to tearing the ACL in the other knee.

1. you must have missed where i said there's a difference between being a good athlete and being explosive.

2. Duncan is in no way explosive stop reaching.

3. Dude, MJ and Kobe are 6-6,6-7 and had way more finesse to there games and most of all they could move to the elbow, Rose can't.

4. What? Rose mid rang game? Do you have any idea how hard it is to hit shots if you can't make people back up and give you space to shoot. Derek Fisher can Knock down mid range shots like nobody's business. Who cares he cant get a look. Slower guys like nash and billups do it with pick and roll. But that only works if the guy can't go under the screen. Rose can't be elite with out his speed cause guys aren't going to "give" him a midrange jumpers like they do now. There going to get up and take away his space. An without his speed he is not going to be able to blow by them. Trust me i been playing bball all my life. When it comes to pg's Your either quick or you need a pick. lol Other wise your just a roll player. An if your a pick and roll player you need to be a shooter with legit range on your shot. Those are really the only 2 ways a pg can be elite.

Now if your tall enough like "kobe" or PP you can swap out blowing by people for going off ball and playing at the elbow, with triple threat. But rose cant play like that, he's to short. at least that's my opinion.

But Im not saying rose can't come back because I REALLY dont know. I just don't see it as surely as other people do.

jayjay33
05-16-2012, 06:57 PM
No, Duncan didn't routinely put down ridiculous dunks, although he has had some impressive ones. Instead, he had great explosiveness and quick twitch muscles which led him to being an awesome defender.



There's varying degrees, I never disagreed. But Nash has enough speed as a player to be able to get past his defenders in the first place as well as being incredibly well conditioned to still play at an elite level at such an age. Does Rose use more of his athleticism than Nash? No ****. But if you lack either fundamentals or athleticism, you won't make it in this league. In that case you fall into the camp of being an athlete with no skills (Green, Tyrus, Swift, etc.) or a basketball player who doesn't have the NBA size or athleticism to make it (i.e. thousands of college players).

And yes, Rose can still be elite as evident by his elite mid range % in year two. Just like MJ or Kobe or Lebron, managed to adjust from being athletic freaks to having INCREDIBLE fundamentals (while still being supremely conditioned, you know, ATHLETICISM). You have no evidence to suggest Rose cannot make the same adjustment when called upon.



Yup. However, there is the concern that a player plays too careful with the knee that they tore their ACL, and in effect, can lead to tearing the ACL in the other knee.

Maybe we should find another word to use. Cause now being in great condition makes you "athletic". At this piont I don't think we are talking about the same thing. But then again you keep saying tim ducan is "explosive" so i not sure it would matter what word we use.

OC Knights #11
05-16-2012, 06:58 PM
First Jay Williams now Derick Rose.

effen5
05-16-2012, 07:50 PM
First Jay Williams now Derick Rose.

These two injuries don't even compare. Plus jay got hurt on a motorcycle like a dumbass

justinnum1
05-16-2012, 08:27 PM
First Jay Williams now Derick Rose.

lolwut?

eibbor
05-16-2012, 08:45 PM
Man, I'm not even a fan of Rose, but I hate this for him and Bulls fans alike. Hopefully he can come back and be his old self.