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NoahH
05-15-2012, 12:20 AM
After watching the Thunder absolutely dismantle the Lakers (yes I know it was only one game, but still) it made me think.... How good can this team be? Durant and Westbrook are 23, Harden and Ibaka are 22. This means their top 4 players have not even peaked yet and they are already this good. Do they have the potential to be the next big dynasty i.e. 1990s Bulls, 1960s Celtics, 2000s Lakers? I think so. If they can keep the core four players together (yes pay cuts would probably have to happen since all four will draw max contracts) I could see them winning a good chunk of the decade of championships. Maybe 8 of the next 10, who knows. Personally, I'm scared as a HEAT fan. There's no way the HEAT can win seven championships with these guys out west.

Just a thought. What do you guys think?

JoeyBoy718
05-15-2012, 12:27 AM
I can't believe a Heat fan is saying the Thunder will win 8 out of the next 10. I definitely think 8 out of 10 is a stretch, but I definitely see multiple championships if they stay together. I can see the Thunder and Heat playing each other in the Finals almost every year (kind of like Celtics and Lakers in the 80s). They both have big 3s with 2 superstars (Westbrook/Durant and James/Wade) and 1 all-star (Harden and Bosh). I think the Heat's big 3 is more talented, at the moment, but the Thunder are younger so they have much wider of a window. They definitely have a bright future. I don't think Ibaka will command a "max" contract, but he can definitely get more money elsewhere if he chose to leave.

NoahH
05-15-2012, 12:28 AM
I can't believe a Heat fan is saying the Thunder will win 8 out of the next 10. I definitely think 8 out of 10 is a stretch, but I definitely see multiple championships if they stay together. I can see the Thunder and Heat playing each other in the Finals almost every year (kind of like Celtics and Lakers in the 80s). They both have big 3s with 2 superstars (Westbrook/Durant and James/Wade) and 1 all-star (Harden and Bosh). I think the Heat's big 3 is more talented, at the moment, but the Thunder are younger so they have much wider of a window. They definitely have a bright future. I don't think Ibaka will command a "max" contract, but he can definitely get more money elsewhere if he chose to leave.

I;m not saying they WILL win 8 of the next 10 but i wouldn't be surprised. Ibaka could get max seeing as there aren't alot of good defensive big men.

jneises21
05-15-2012, 12:30 AM
If they can keep that core, the sky is the limit

JoeyBoy718
05-15-2012, 12:33 AM
I;m not saying they WILL win 8 of the next 10 but i wouldn't be surprised. Ibaka could get max seeing as there aren't alot of good defensive big men.

I can definitely see them making 8 out of the next 10 Finals, but I don't see them winning that many. I wouldn't be surprised if the Thunder and Heat met in 4 out of the next 5 Finals and split with 2 wins each. Unfortunately, that will probably be the end of the line for the Heat, but the Thunder will have another 5 years or more left in the tank after that.

NoahH
05-15-2012, 12:34 AM
I can definitely see them making 8 out of the next 10 Finals, but I don't see them winning that many. I wouldn't be surprised if the Thunder and Heat met in 4 out of the next 5 Finals and split with 2 wins each. Unfortunately, that will probably be the end of the line for the Heat, but the Thunder will have another 5 years or more left in the tank after that.

As long as the HEAT win like 2 ill be happy lol

OKC could have like 10 good years left yeah. :speechless:

king4day
05-15-2012, 12:38 AM
I'm pulling for them this year because in a year or two, they will have to be broken up. Maybe after their first contracts, but Harden and Ibaka need to settle their money situation first. Harden won't tolerate being a backup his whole career either. A LOT of other teams will be glad to offer him the max and have him not only start, but be the player the team builds around.

beasted86
05-15-2012, 12:38 AM
The Thunder cannot afford their core.

Nobody wants to talk about this sad truth. The team will be broken up.

NoahH
05-15-2012, 12:39 AM
I'm pulling for them this year because in a year or two, they will have to be broken up. Maybe after their first contracts, but Harden and Ibaka need to settle their money situation first. Harden won't tolerate being a backup his whole career either. A LOT of other teams will be glad to offer him the max and have him not only start, but be the player the team builds around.

Well eventually they'll have to slide him into the starting line up.

Ezio
05-15-2012, 12:41 AM
How long can they keep them for, that's the question.

ccg34
05-15-2012, 12:49 AM
As a die hard Supersonics fan, this sucks. This could have been us.

torocan
05-15-2012, 12:51 AM
It's going to come down to how long they want to stay together.

OKC has actually been travelling under the radar a bit this season (amazing, I know). I really believe they're one of the scariest teams in the NBA right now.

Fast, athletic, deep and young.

I really do believe they're the favorite to take the Championship. The Heat are good, but after Wade/Bosh/Lebron there really isn't alot left in the line up.

OKC is just so fast on offense, and it's SO hard to stop Westbrook, Durant AND Harden, then you have their fast ball movement and ridiculously good perimeter and paint offense and you have one beast of a Team.

Sure, the Spurs or Heat have a shot. Still, it's hard not to look at the way OKC plays and wonder who can really stop them when they're playing well.

They're like the Nuggets, but on steroids. Bigger, faster, and multiple star/superstars to top it all off.

NoahH
05-15-2012, 12:56 AM
As a die hard Supersonics fan, this sucks. This could have been us.
Sonics were my homer team too. Imagine what could have been?
I was thinking this last year with the Thunder vs Grizz semi.
Vancouver vs. Seattle. I could've went to every game

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 12:58 AM
OKC will keep their core together, and they'll sign both Harden and Ibaka for below the max.

Durant's 5 year 85 million dollar contract will be up in 3 more seasons, and Harden and Ibaka aren't due for extensions for another year. They'll stagger Harden's and Ibaka's contracts to rise to max earnings for the year Durant is due for a new contract.

And Durant himself will take a pay cut ala Tim Duncan.(next contract)

Plenty of teams are able to keep their cores together; see the Lakers and Spurs. Teams get mixed up when they give bad contracts to bad players, and OKC doesn't have any of those. They'll be alright, and if push comes to shove, they'll amnesty Perk and use the money to resign Ibaka.

JoeyBoy718
05-15-2012, 01:05 AM
OKC will keep their core together, and they'll sign both Harden and Ibaka for below the max.

Durant's 5 year 85 million dollar contract will be up in 3 more seasons, and Harden and Ibaka aren't due for extensions for another year. They'll stagger Harden's and Ibaka's contracts to rise to max earnings for the year Durant is due for a new contract.

And Durant himself will take a pay cut ala Tim Duncan.(next contract)

Plenty of teams are able to keep their cores together; see the Lakers and Spurs. Teams get mixed up when they give bad contracts to bad players, and OKC doesn't have any of those. They'll be alright, and if push comes to shove, they'll amnesty Perk and use the money to resign Ibaka.

You make some good points. I agree that they'll be able to keep Westbrook/Durant/Harden. The only one I could possibly see them losing is Ibaka. If you look at the Spurs, they've had 3 superstar/all-star caliber players in Duncan/Parker/Ginobli for a decade now and keeping those 3 was never an issue of conversation. The only reason I could see the core breaking apart would be differences between the players, but I don't see contracts being an issue. There's always the possibility that Harden feels that he could be a #1 guys, or even Westbrook feeling he could be a #1, and one of them or both of them wanting to leave. Hopefully they could all eat some humble pie and stick together. They can go down in history.

gatkins11
05-15-2012, 01:12 AM
As many of you have stated, the core will be broken up soon. OKC won't be able to afford the salaries that other teams will offer Harden and Ibaka.

I think it would be arrogant for anyone to say they would give OKC a "hometown" discount. Those guys are young and want to get paid and there are plenty of teams that will have cap space in a few years that would love to have them. The players understand they have to get as much money as they can while they can.

Even if OKC could make it work with bird rights and such, the luxury tax that will be enforced in a few years would cause the team to hemorrhage money.

JoeyBoy718
05-15-2012, 01:23 AM
As many of you have stated, the core will be broken up soon. OKC won't be able to afford the salaries that other teams will offer Harden and Ibaka.

I think it would be arrogant for anyone to say they would give OKC a "hometown" discount. Those guys are young and want to get paid and there are plenty of teams that will have cap space in a few years that would love to have them. The players understand they have to get as much money as they can while they can.

Even if OKC could make it work with bird rights and such, the luxury tax that will be enforced in a few years would cause the team to hemorrhage money.

If the team is forced to break up I see it being bad for the league. It would basically show that the NBA will always be about big name cities signing top notch free agents. We've already seen it with guys like LeBron and Carmelo getting drafted by small markets and leaving in free agency for large markets. Fair enough, they did give those teams 7 years to try to win a championship. However, in the case of OKC, if they are forced to break up, it would basically punish them for drafting well. Professional sports are designed so that the teams on the bottom are able to climb back up by getting high draft picks. It doesn't always work out. How many top 5 picks have the Hawks, Clippers, T'Wolves blown? Small markets teams are already losing hope because all their good players are leaving in free agency for big markets. And if OKC breaks up, bottom-feeder teams who do well in the draft will begin to lose hope because they know their cores won't be able to stay intact. The way things are shaping, if you're not the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics or Heat, you're **** out of luck.

Unrequited
05-15-2012, 01:51 AM
I think they can only keep Harden or Ibaka after this summer, or next? Correct me if I'm wrong. Both will demand a good salary and their cap space is limited.

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 01:52 AM
As many of you have stated, the core will be broken up soon. OKC won't be able to afford the salaries that other teams will offer Harden and Ibaka.

I think it would be arrogant for anyone to say they would give OKC a "hometown" discount. Those guys are young and want to get paid and there are plenty of teams that will have cap space in a few years that would love to have them. The players understand they have to get as much money as they can while they can.

Even if OKC could make it work with bird rights and such, the luxury tax that will be enforced in a few years would cause the team to hemorrhage money.

Plenty of players take pay cuts to play on championship caliber teams, and plenty of players value said championships over "being the guy", or playing for "large markets". They'll give OKC a hometown discount(Westbrook already has, could have gotten more in the open market. We'll act like that didn't happen though) because they value the relationships they've developed with one another since coming into the league, being great, and becoming a potential dynasty over being "the guy" and averaging 25 a night for a fringe playoff team.

These dudes are like brothers, the only teammates they've had are each other and together they've taken OKC from one of the worst teams in the league to a franchise that's looking like that very well could win 5 titles in the next decade. As they keep winning, developing(I can't even begin to describe what playing in the Olympics is going to do for OKC's trio) , and receiving more exposure for their success they're only going to grow closer.

Yea, I'm sure they'd give all that up to play for the Nets or Rockets. Like I said; just as the Celtics, Lakers, and Mavericks, or even Chicago in the 90's; OKC will keep their core together and become the face of the league. They're well positioned to extend very lucrative contracts to both Ibaka and Harden, and both will resign before sniffing free agency.

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 01:53 AM
I think they can only keep Harden or Ibaka after this summer, or next? Correct me if I'm wrong. Both will demand a good salary and their cap space is limited.

OKC has plenty of cap space. :facepalm:

Raph12
05-15-2012, 01:54 AM
They can't keep all 4, they'll have to let go of Ibaka or Harden, because both will command BIG money in 2013 (year everyone clears cap for D12, CP3, Monta, JSmoove, Bynum, etc...).

They're window of oppurtunity is this season and the next.

Unrequited
05-15-2012, 01:59 AM
OKC has plenty of cap space. :facepalm:

What I meant was their space will be limited to just either Harden or Ibaka... :facepalm:

Baller1
05-15-2012, 01:59 AM
They can't keep all 4, they'll have to let go of Ibaka or Harden, because both will command BIG money in 2013 (year everyone clears cap for D12, CP3, Monta, JSmoove, Bynum, etc...).

They're window of oppurtunity is this season and the next.

Even if you're right about them losing Harden and/or Ibaka (I think you're wrong), I'm confident that a team lead by Durant and Westbrook can still win championships.

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 02:07 AM
What I meant was their space will be limited to just either Harden or Ibaka... :facepalm:

They'll have enough money to resign both for what they'll demand. Again, it isn't hard to keep a great core together. Plenty of dynasties do it, it's why they're dynasties.

beasted86
05-15-2012, 02:08 AM
I think they can only keep Harden or Ibaka after this summer, or next? Correct me if I'm wrong. Both will demand a good salary and their cap space is limited.


OKC has plenty of cap space. :facepalm:

He said "correct me if I'm wrong", and you still felt the need for a face palm? :rolleyes:

Anyway, you are somewhat right, but instead of cap space, they are limited by "luxury tax space". Basically for the summer of 2014, the Thunder will have to commit to the luxury tax if they want to keep both Harden & Ibaka.

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 02:19 AM
He said "correct me if I'm wrong", and you still felt the need for a face palm? :rolleyes:

Anyway, you are somewhat right, but instead of cap space, they are limited by "luxury tax space". Basically for the summer of 2014, the Thunder will have to commit to the luxury tax if they want to keep both Harden & Ibaka.

Which they'll do, without question.


Their contracts will be built similar to how the Spurs built the contracts of their core.

dalton749
05-15-2012, 02:51 AM
without reading anything but the thread title I cant help but think your sitting in your bathtub twirling your hair thinking about that girl at school that you've never had the balls to talk to, just wishing that one day she may notice you.

lakerboy
05-15-2012, 03:14 AM
The Thunder cannot afford their core.

Nobody wants to talk about this sad truth. The team will be broken up.

This.

Miami and LA have 3 teams in max contracts and a couple of players with MLEs. They are tight on the budget as hell, both benches suck.

How many players does OKC have to pay?

3 max contracts
Westbrook
KD
Harden

Perk makes $8M/year, and I think he should be let go.
Ibaka will command another $10-11, based on what DeAndre Jordan got--probably even more.

That's only 5 players. But hey, I am not hating. IF they can get some $$, they'll be good.

Kevj77
05-15-2012, 03:20 AM
I think they will have to choose between Ibaka and Harden eventually and get rid of Perkins once they have to offer extensions. They'll likely keep Harden moving him into the starting lineup. They will have a big 3 for maybe a decade if they are willing to commit and probably pay the tax.

Unless of course they all decide to take pay cuts to keep Ibaka.

JJ_JKidd
05-15-2012, 03:35 AM
Relax

cutiepie80
05-15-2012, 03:38 AM
I like this team a lot, the only thing I HATE is that they aren't sporting the green and yellow supersonics jerseys. I am an 80's kid and loved thier uniforms and teams back in the day. Just wish they were the supersonics.

cutiepie80
05-15-2012, 03:39 AM
And anyone thinking that Harden will be a Thunder next year is NUTS!!!!!!!!!

He's gone.

Iron24th
05-15-2012, 03:39 AM
With the new CBA,not sure how long okc can keep westy,durant,harden and co together.

beasted86
05-15-2012, 03:42 AM
Which they'll do, without question.


Their contracts will be built similar to how the Spurs built the contracts of their core.

That's not exactly how Durant and Westbrook's current contracts are composed... so where you are pulling this out of, I don't know.

And as for the first part.... all 3 of these guys will take the max or right near it. It sounds bad, but it's only an average of $16M per season since they are all coming off rookie contracts. $16M is a bargain for all 3 of those guys. But it only takes common sense to realize, $16M x 3 + Perkins $9M is already at the salary cap. We didn't even talk about Ibaka or the rest of the role players like Sefalosha, Collinson, etc... who eat up $3-4M a piece.

When it's all said and done, the Thunder might actually have a higher payroll than the Bulls, HEAT, and Knicks if the owner does want to keep the core together and is willing to pay the tax.

Blazers#1Fan
05-15-2012, 03:48 AM
harden will be gone to another team this offseason

cutiepie80
05-15-2012, 03:50 AM
Like I said, do you think Harden will not take a huge contract from a team with a dying need at sg? He is gone. Ibaka can stay and Perkins will probably be cut.

cutiepie80
05-15-2012, 03:51 AM
Also, if they stay healthy......I said this since January, Thunder are winning it all with this team.

Blazers#1Fan
05-15-2012, 03:51 AM
look for NJ,PHX,NO,MIN to offer him a nice contract maybe even portland doubtful though we need a center and point guard

cutiepie80
05-15-2012, 03:53 AM
He is like a Joe Johnson right now when he was hot..........gone. I also think he is a LOT better then JJ. Just know he deserves to cash a paycheck and be a legit starter and he will.

3ballbomber
05-15-2012, 03:56 AM
After watching the Thunder absolutely dismantle the Lakers (yes I know it was only one game, but still) it made me think.... How good can this team be? Durant and Westbrook are 23, Harden and Ibaka are 22. This means their top 4 players have not even peaked yet and they are already this good. Do they have the potential to be the next big dynasty i.e. 1990s Bulls, 1960s Celtics, 2000s Lakers? I think so. If they can keep the core four players together (yes pay cuts would probably have to happen since all four will draw max contracts) I could see them winning a good chunk of the decade of championships. Maybe 8 of the next 10, who knows. Personally, I'm scared as a HEAT fan. There's no way the HEAT can win seven championships with these guys out west.

Just a thought. What do you guys think?
yeah, i agree how good this team is and they are still all so young. I think what makes Thunder so good is most of the players are unselfish. THey most def have the makings, fundamentals and mechanics to be a great team. They have the players/pieces, the mentality, the depth and the coach. All that's left is experience.

beasted86
05-15-2012, 04:11 AM
They'll give OKC a hometown discount(Westbrook already has, could have gotten more in the open market. We'll act like that didn't happen though)
Can you point me towards the source for this information?

The absolute maximum contract Russell Westbrook could sign as a 4th year player (who did not win an MVP or finish on an All-NBA 2x or get voted in 2x as an all-star) is exactly $82,302,690 and ESPN and all other sources I have ever seen have reported Westbrook signed a contract worth $80M. He signed the contract in January before he was voted on the all-star team for a 2nd time.


The Thunder did not disclose terms, but a source told ESPN.com's Brian Windhorst that the contract is for five years and at the maximum level -- which won't be known until next year but is likely to be about $80 million.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7479799/oklahoma-city-thunder-russell-westbrook-signs-extension

I got the $82,302,690 figure from the maximum contract that Rudy Gay signed a year ago over a 5 year period.

JLynn943
05-15-2012, 04:15 AM
I could definitely see Durant taking a discount to stay and keep Harden and/or Ibaka around. It's not like he wouldn't be getting tons of endorsements.

cutiepie80
05-15-2012, 04:16 AM
Can you point me towards the source for this information?

The absolute maximum contract Russell Westbrook could sign as a 4th year player (who did not win an MVP or finish on an All-NBA 2x or get voted in 2x as an all-star) is exactly $82,302,690 and ESPN and all other sources I have ever seen have reported Westbrook signed a contract worth $80M. He signed the contract in January before he was voted on the all-star team for a 2nd time.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7479799/oklahoma-city-thunder-russell-westbrook-signs-extension

I got the $82,302,690 figure from the maximum contract that Rudy Gay signed a year ago over a 5 year period.

In other words.........hoping and praying they can't sign this team because we don't want to lose?

LdotAdot
05-15-2012, 04:44 AM
That's not exactly how Durant and Westbrook's current contracts are composed... so where you are pulling this out of, I don't know.

And as for the first part.... all 3 of these guys will take the max or right near it. It sounds bad, but it's only an average of $16M per season since they are all coming off rookie contracts. $16M is a bargain for all 3 of those guys. But it only takes common sense to realize, $16M x 3 + Perkins $9M is already at the salary cap. We didn't even talk about Ibaka or the rest of the role players like Sefalosha, Collinson, etc... who eat up $3-4M a piece.

When it's all said and done, the Thunder might actually have a higher payroll than the Bulls, HEAT, and Knicks if the owner does want to keep the core together and is willing to pay the tax.

This, but I don't see them paying the luxury tax. It's no longer 1-1. It's too much of a penalty. I don't see any team trying to be in the luxury tax in this new CBA.

Starting 2013-2014 season this is the penalty per dollar.

Refer here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Tax_levels_from_2013.E2.80.9314)

So lets assume that cap stays at ~$58 mil and luxury tax stays at ~$70 mil for 2013-14. Then Durant+Westbrook+Harden(max)+Perk= ~$58 mil. Then Ibaka gets Deandre Jordan money ~$10-11 + Thabo $4 + Collison $2.5 + They pick up options on Aldrich/Jackson/Hayward $6.5 + bench fillers $3-4 = min $26

Altogether that's $84 mil - $70 = 14 above the luxury threshold.

So for 13-14 they'll be paying $21 in luxury tax. Which means in total for that season they'll pay around $105 mil ($84 contracts + $21 luxury tax).
In 14-15 = $24.5 in luxury tax (without taking into consideration the increasing scale of player salaries. It could go over $30 mil in penalties)

This is rough estimation but it gives an idea of what they have to deal with. They are definitely letting one go to avoid paying that huge penalty. I wonder who they keep. Or maybe Bennet just eats the penalty year after year and creates a dynasty.

Sources
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/oklahoma_city.htm
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/1/19/2718918/russell-westbrook-contract-extension-oklahoma-city-thunder

smood999
05-15-2012, 05:37 AM
Sadly the new CBA was put in place to help small market teams compete with big market teams, but in the case of OKC it'll have the effect it was meant to have on a big market team...the team will be broken up. The penalties are too harsh and neither Westbrook or Durant took a cut to stay already. Also, these guys are young..this point of their careers is when they're going to cash in...saying that they'll be able to keep Ibaka and Harden when they already have Westbrook, Durant and Perkins locked up for a decent amount is wishful thinking

Mr_Amaziing
05-15-2012, 10:21 AM
It's going to come down to how long they want to stay together.

OKC has actually been travelling under the radar a bit this season (amazing, I know). I really believe they're one of the scariest teams in the NBA right now.

Fast, athletic, deep and young.

I really do believe they're the favorite to take the Championship. The Heat are good, but after Wade/Bosh/Lebron there really isn't alot left in the line up.

OKC is just so fast on offense, and it's SO hard to stop Westbrook, Durant AND Harden, then you have their fast ball movement and ridiculously good perimeter and paint offense and you have one beast of a Team.

Sure, the Spurs or Heat have a shot. Still, it's hard not to look at the way OKC plays and wonder who can really stop them when they're playing well.

They're like the Nuggets, but on steroids. Bigger, faster, and multiple star/superstars to top it all off.




This

ChongInc.
05-15-2012, 10:40 AM
I'm pulling for them this year because in a year or two, they will have to be broken up. Maybe after their first contracts, but Harden and Ibaka need to settle their money situation first. Harden won't tolerate being a backup his whole career either. A LOT of other teams will be glad to offer him the max and have him not only start, but be the player the team builds around.

joe johnson?

BSardogan
05-15-2012, 10:56 AM
I think it's obvious this Thunder core won't stay together for a whole decade. Not with 4 players that could get a max pay cheque on almost any other team.

If I were the Thunder front office and were to split up this team, the one player I would seperate from this young core would be RW. The Thunder can't affort giving up their best defensive big man and shot blocker, they won't give up the league's top scorer and having to choose between Harden and Westbrook, I'd go for the first one every day.

Westbrook handles the ball too often now, taking away shots for high % shooters on the Thunder team. Also he doesn't do much with it other than hitting some of his inconsistent jumpers or dunking over someone every now and then. Also a wing of Harden/Durant with a pass-first point guard is just too scary, along with Serge Blockbaka. Just those guys on the court could molest any team in the league.

Harden is class, and will develop into a top 3 Shooting Guard either next year or he's already it. I love his penetration, court vision and deadly three-point shooting. Those are 3 things that make him great and of which Westbrook only has 1.5 in his package.

Westbrook will go to some small market team like Charlotte (in a package for Kemba and a 1st) where they pay him max and build a team around him that never gets out of the first round. Fin.

Cal827
05-15-2012, 11:03 AM
Not gonna be able to hold onto all of them. Even with the Amnesty, they are looking at near-max deals for Harden/Westbrook, and some team is gonna screw them to try and pry Ibaka away.

Lead to a weak supporting core.

I think they'll win it at least once, but it has to be soon (NEXT YEAR) lol

Dade County
05-15-2012, 11:03 AM
OKC is scary good... But I still like the HEAT chances if they ever meet in a finals.

WeCameAsRomans
05-15-2012, 12:11 PM
The Thunder will definitely win a championship. The Thunder still have to get a big men that can score out of the low post. But if Ibaka could add low post scoring to his arsenal not only will he make himself a more valuable player but increasing the Thunder's chances of winning multiple championships and taking some pressure off of Durant, Westbrook, and Harden. Maybe signing Jeff Green could help lead the Thunder to becoming a more complete team. The Thunder have a bright future ahead and have a lot of optimism.

Stinkyoutsider
05-15-2012, 12:58 PM
I think the Heat and Thunder will battle quite a few times for championships but I can never count out the Spurs. It seems coach Pop is always getting the best out of players who didn't fit in on any other teams.

I agree with the Thunder keeping their core intact. Durant is humble and will accept less money to keep this team together. I think Westbrook would take less money too if it meant winning titles. I think Ibaka is a big money player but not a max player so they can keep him too. Perkins does a lot of dirty work for them and is the best one on one low post defender in the NBA, but I keep thinking that he may actually be replaceable?

Harden is the wild card here as far as money. I think he would take less money today but I hope he doesn't get the diva attitude (seems like a quiet, down to earth guy). Sooner or later, the Thunder will need to slide him into the starting lineup and find another 6 man who can score off the bench. Harden is too gifted a player to remain on the bench for too much longer...

bucketss
05-15-2012, 01:09 PM
question is as a small market team can they afford to keep that team intact?

Lindystud36
05-15-2012, 01:25 PM
question is as a small market team can they afford to keep that team intact?

I think this is in interesting statement:
As a small market team, could they afford a payrole of 100mm
---Not counting salary tax, or penalties --- Just straight payout of 100mm

In Theory, if the team makes the Western Conference Finals every year for 6 more years, with the type of marketing form Jersey's and selling out every game, can they support that type of payrole. Winning a playoff series has to generate substantial revenue for a team.

I believe that they can, so to answer your question yes



My other question is what is the value that comes monetarily with winning a Championship? With all the championship jerseys, t shirts, hats, etc. What percentage do the players get; this could almost act as an incentive to stay together.

They you have to imagine if the dare I say "core four" can be sponsored by the same athletic wear company, they will make millions more

smith&wesson
05-15-2012, 01:27 PM
doubt they will be able to keep that core. money will play a huge factor. is ibaka and harden gonna be cool with durant and westbrook taking most of the cake ? i doubt it.

mjm07
05-15-2012, 01:48 PM
Depends on the owner. If he wants to spend close to 100mill in salary + penalty then they can make it happen. Most big markets teams like NY, Lakers, can do this IMO. Not so sure Mr. Arison can do this with the HEAT but he's indicated that he's all in with the BIG 3, so who knows. OKC can def still win championship with Durant/Westbrook/Harden. I'd resign Harden before Ibaka/Perkins to stay with Durant/Westbrook. Thats just me.

To my understanding, the new CBA was created to impede teams from creating "super teams" for a lack of a better term, like what the HEAT did with LBJ, Wade, and Bosh. Although they all left a lot of money on the table to sign with Miami. That doesn't usually happen. Thank you, Godfather Pat Riley!

BALLER R
05-15-2012, 01:55 PM
Still can't believe these guys aren't even in their prime yet

Baller1
05-15-2012, 02:09 PM
It's ridiculous that there's nothing in the CBA that rewards teams for drafting well; if OKC is forced to break up because all the players that they drafted have become to good, then small market teams might as well give up.

john545455
05-15-2012, 02:19 PM
TheRe is no way the Thunder keep all these guys. Harden won't resign riding the bench. Lakers signed a billion dollar deal with Time Warner and they can barley do it with the new CBA. Yes Kobe makes 27 million a year, but still. If you do, you will have zero bench play just like the Lakers.I'm sorry, but savor it for 3 more years and then two of these four will become Lakers.

Kevj77
05-15-2012, 02:32 PM
Depends on the owner. If he wants to spend close to 100mill in salary + penalty then they can make it happen. Most big markets teams like NY, Lakers, can do this IMO. Not so sure Mr. Arison can do this with the HEAT but he's indicated that he's all in with the BIG 3, so who knows. OKC can def still win championship with Durant/Westbrook/Harden. I'd resign Harden before Ibaka/Perkins to stay with Durant/Westbrook. Thats just me.

To my understanding, the new CBA was created to impede teams from creating "super teams" for a lack of a better term, like what the HEAT did with LBJ, Wade, and Bosh. Although they all left a lot of money on the table to sign with Miami. That doesn't usually happen. Thank you, Godfather Pat Riley!I just don't think any team can afford 100 mil in salary under the new CBA even the Lakers or Knicks.


spending above the tax level will increase as follows: $0-5 million over tax level - $1.50 for $1; $5-10 million over tax level - $1.75 for $1; $10-15 million over tax level - $2.50 for $1; $15-20 million over tax level - $3.25 for $1. Then increase $.50 per each additional 5 million.http://www.nba.com/2011/news/12/08/labor-deal-reached/index.html

If the tax stays at 70 mil, which I doubt (most likely it will go down when the cap does to meet the new CBA BRI split). Spending 30 mil over the cap would cost 85 mil in tax.

5x1.50=7.5
5x1.75=8.75
5x2.5=12.5
5x3.25=16.25
5x3.75=18.75
5x4.25=21.25

7.5+8.75+12.5+16.25+18.75+21.25=85

If you become a repeat offender (over the cap in 4 out of 5 year) it costs and additional dollar for dollar tax so another 30 mil. That is 115 mil in tax alone +100 mil in salary.

Who can afford 215 mil payroll. Not even the Lakers if they have to also pay 80 mil in revenue sharing that would be 295 million in salary, tax and revenue sharing. Sadly the rules put in place by small market owners thinking about LA and Miami are going to break apart OKC, a small market team that did everything right. This can't be blamed on big markets either.

masTOR_shake1
05-15-2012, 02:38 PM
The Thunder cannot afford their core.

Nobody wants to talk about this sad truth. The team will be broken up.

The heat did it :shrug: kd seems to have a ton of character and if the new formula for winning a title is to be on a team with several all-star level players, I don't see why they can't or wouldn't stick together.

xnick5757
05-15-2012, 02:50 PM
right now for 2013 (the year harden/ibaka become FA) the thunder have $55,019,783 committed in salaries.

current salary cap is about $58 million


the thunder can free up some cap room though

decline team option on Cole Aldrich - $3,245,152
decline option on Reggie Jackson - $1,260,360
decline option on Lazar Hayward - $2,119,214
amnesty perkins - $8,477,437

that brings their cap to $39,917,620 committed to 4 players (durant, westbrook, sefolosha, collison)

it is likely the cap will increase a little - but if it doesn't, that leaves them with $18,082,380 to spend before hitting the cap.


if we project both harden/ibalka as getting $80 mil deals (i think that's the max for them), with $15 mil in the first year, the thunder's cap increases to $69,917,620. After filling the roster with minimum salary players, it will likely be around $78,000,000. The year after, sefolosha's 3.9 mil comes off the books, provided minor cap relief.


that $78 million figure places the thunder aprox. 8 million over the tax limit (going by 2010-2011 numbers), bringing the thunder to a 84 million dollar payroll - which is not unreasonable for having 4 great players locked up.



also, all my numbers were calculated as if the salary cap will remained locked - it will most likely increase at least a little in the future.


TLDR: thunder can likely afford to keep all four of the core

Weezy
05-15-2012, 02:55 PM
They will keep their core, their GM is a genius. Their talent level is insane and mind-boggling.

lvblay3
05-15-2012, 02:59 PM
i like this team a lot, the only thing i hate is that they aren't sporting the green and yellow supersonics jerseys. I am an 80's kid and loved thier uniforms and teams back in the day. Just wish they were the supersonics.



keep dreaming, thunder up

mjm07
05-15-2012, 03:02 PM
I just don't think any team can afford 100 mil in salary under the new CBA even the Lakers or Knicks.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/12/08/labor-deal-reached/index.html

If the tax stays at 70 mil, which I doubt (most likely it will go down when the cap does to meet the new CBA BRI split). Spending 30 mil over the cap would cost 85 mil in tax.

5x1.50=7.5
5x1.75=8.75
5x2.5=12.5
5x3.25=16.25
5x3.75=18.75
5x4.25=21.25

7.5+8.75+12.5+16.25+18.75+21.25=85

If you become a repeat offender (over the cap in 4 out of 5 year) it costs and additional dollar for dollar tax so another 30 mil. That is 115 mil in tax alone +100 mil in salary.

Who can afford 215 mil payroll. Not even the Lakers if they have to also pay 80 mil in revenue sharing that would be 295 million in salary, tax and revenue sharing. Sadly the rules put in place by small market owners thinking about LA and Miami are going to break apart OKC, a small market team that did everything right. This can't be blamed on big markets either.

WOW! my math was a bit off. Good post. :clap:

Kevj77
05-15-2012, 03:02 PM
xnickx the cap will go down and expect the tax level to go down as well. It has yet to be adjusted in the first two years of the new CBA to reflect the new lower split of BRI for the players.

lvblay3
05-15-2012, 03:06 PM
Man everybody except Thunder fans think that some how they are going to break up, Its it going to be hard YES but they will sign both Ibaka and Harden, the key player nobody is talking about is they will lose Maynor, who will be a good starting point guard in two years when he becomes a free agent. Every body said Durant wasnt going to sign with the Thunder he did... Then it was Westbrook going to LA... nope he signed up.. Presti will make it happen. Thunder going to be hard to beat for years to come because they drafted well and that's how true champions are built.. Pistons, Spurs, Bulls

BKLYNpigeon
05-15-2012, 03:08 PM
I dont know if the Thunder will be able to Keep Harden and Ibaka. Harden will get a Max Deal somewhere. I dont know if they can afford it or want to pay max money for a 6th man on their team.

It really doesnt matter if OKC can keep their core together. They could trade Harden or Ibaka for MAJOR assets if they cant afford Them.

BKLYNpigeon
05-15-2012, 03:10 PM
Eventually Players will want a change in place, they want to make a name for themselves. They will chase the money. Do you think Harden or Westbrook wants to be Durants, Scottie Pippen?

KingPosey
05-15-2012, 03:20 PM
Ibaka isnt drawing a max contract lol....

JoeyBoy718
05-15-2012, 03:46 PM
It's ridiculous that there's nothing in the CBA that rewards teams for drafting well; if OKC is forced to break up because all the players that they drafted have become to good, then small market teams might as well give up.

I agree. The NBA is the only league in pro sports where teams know they'll never have a chance to win a championship. Anyone can win in the NFL, anyone can win in the MLB, the NHL. How do you win in the NBA? You need multiple star players and a solid bench. How do you get these players? You sign them in free agency or draft them. Star players only go to big markets, or they sign with another star player/best-friend. The draft is the only thing that gives hope to small markets because it allow those teams to have such star players as Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving, etc. So the way the NBA is set up, the ONLY way a small market team can compete is to do EXACTLY what the Thunder did (draft well and build a team). And now they're going to be punished for doing the right thing?

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 05:19 PM
People seriously think Ibaka, who averages 9/8/0/4, is going to demand a max contract? Harden wont demand the max, let alone Ibaka. OKC has plenty of cap space, no bad contracts, a genius GM, and the advantage of having drafted and groomed all these guys. They'll be able to keep their core together just as all dynasties do, and they'll commit to the luxury to do it(Seriously, why wouldn't they?). Very few players want to play for a perennial losers in order to make a few more million when they have the chance to contend for multiple titles; those that leave for money generally don't have very much success on their current teams and are looking for a better fit as well as a bigger contract. That isn't the case with any of OKC's players.

Harden will demand about $13million per year, just like Manu, and Ibaka will demand around $10-11million. Both will be offered extensions and resign next season.

BKLYNpigeon
05-15-2012, 05:32 PM
I think Harden leaves for the Money. theres some team out there thats willing to give him Max Money. Harden is young and talented, theres going to be a point in his career where he's going to want to be the Man, the Star and not a 6th man in KD and Westbrooks shadow.

BKLYNpigeon
05-15-2012, 05:36 PM
Harden contributes as much as KD and Westbrook. he's going to want close a contract close to Westbrook's.


reporter: "are you going to give Baltimore a hometown discount?"

Quote: Ray Lewis, " I dont play less, I shouldnt get paid less"

justinnum1
05-15-2012, 05:37 PM
several teams will offer him the max, how many guys take less than max?

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 05:46 PM
several teams will offer him the max, how many guys take less than max?

Plenty, eg: Chris Bosh, Manu Ginobili, Ray Allen, Ron Artest, Tony Parker, etc. But if he deserves the max, they'll extend it, because they have the money to. But again, he's a top 10-20 player, he wont demand the max.

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 05:48 PM
I think Harden leaves for the Money. theres some team out there thats willing to give him Max Money. Harden is young and talented, theres going to be a point in his career where he's going to want to be the Man, the Star and not a 6th man in KD and Westbrooks shadow.

Do you have a list of players that left winning franchises to be the man on worse teams?

justinnum1
05-15-2012, 05:50 PM
Plenty. But if he deserves the max, they'll extend it, because they have the money to. He wont get the max though.

Like? Which player that was elegible for max money took less?

And with the new cba they have a 4yr max and a 5yr max, they would give the 5yr to westbrook, that means they could only give the 4yr max to harden.

justinnum1
05-15-2012, 05:51 PM
Do you have a list of players that left winning franchises to be the man on worse teams?

joe johnson
rashard lewis

most guys get signed and traded, they dont just leave.
amare

im sure there are a lot more guys that left winning teams than there are guys who took less years and money than they could have gotten.



Plenty, eg: Chris Bosh, Manu Ginobili, Ray Allen, Ron Artest, Tony Parker, etc. But if he deserves the max, they'll extend it, because they have the money to. But again, he wont demand the max.
none of those guys were coming off rookie deals and are as good as harden, i would call harden a top 20 player. How many top 20 guys coming off rookie deals took less?

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 05:59 PM
joe johnson
rashard lewis

Historically bad contracts that are considered such by the majority of the league, what a coincidence.


most guys get signed and traded, they dont just leave.
amare

Another bad contract, and from a franchise that was going nowhere. Very comparable to a core of 22-23 year old's being on the verge of dynasty.


im sure there are a lot more guys that left winning teams than there are guys who took less years and money than they could have gotten.

No, not really; because it doesn't happened. Winning is the single most important to most athletes, sorry.


none of those guys were coming off rookie deals and are as good as harden, i would call harden a top 20 player. How many top 20 guys coming off rookie deals took less?

How many 3rd option 6th men are offered the max, and why are you operating under the assumption that OKC can't offer the max should he demand it?

justinnum1
05-15-2012, 06:06 PM
Historically bad contracts that are considered such by the majority of the league, what a coincidence.



Another bad contract, and from a franchise that was going nowhere. Very comparable to a core of 22-23 year old's being on the verge of dynasty.



No, not really; because it doesn't happened. Winning is the single most important to most athletes, sorry.



How many 3rd option 6th men are offered the max, and why are you operating under the assumption that OKC can't offer the max should he demand it?
Read up on the new CBA
teams just cant hand out max deals, you have one 4yr max and a 5yr max.

LJEATON26
05-15-2012, 06:33 PM
Presti is a genius and will find a way to lock them both up.

beasted86
05-15-2012, 07:00 PM
Presti is a genius and will find a way to lock them both up.

I can see him signing Harden & Ibaka, but in turn cutting loose guys like Thabo, Collison, Cook, etc. One way or another, they won't afford to keep all their young players and simply keep spending.

The Thunder will not have a payroll larger than the Bulls, HEAT, and Knicks in that small market.

Baller1
05-15-2012, 07:01 PM
I can see him signing Harden & Ibaka, but in turn cutting loose guys like Thabo, Collison, Cook, etc. One way or another, they won't afford to keep all their young players and simply keep spending.

The Thunder will not have a payroll larger than the HEAT in that small market.

Collison is on a front loaded contract so he's fine; Presti handled that brilliantly. I think he is going to Amnesty Perk and find a way to lock up Harden and Ibaka.

beasted86
05-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Collison is on a front loaded contract so he's fine; Presti handled that brilliantly. I think he is going to Amnesty Perk and find a way to lock up Harden and Ibaka.

Even still, that's ~$3M that he makes. Thabo also makes around that much. They'll probabyl re-sign Cook for $2M. That alone is $8M... it starts to add up.

One way or another somebody or a couple guys are not staying. But anyway they don't have to worry about this until 2014... so between then and now they can assess who they really need to keep. Right now it's a non issue and they should try and win for this season and next.

Bravely Done
05-15-2012, 07:46 PM
Even still, that's ~$3M that he makes. Thabo also makes around that much. They'll probabyl re-sign Cook for $2M. That alone is $8M... it starts to add up.

One way or another somebody or a couple guys are not staying. But anyway they don't have to worry about this until 2014... so between then and now they can assess who they really need to keep. Right now it's a non issue and they should try and win for this season and next.

Why would they resign Thabo and Cook before resigning Harden and Ibaka? Cook was resigned to a two year deal for that very reason.


You don't know what you're talking about.

time4change
05-15-2012, 08:09 PM
I'm pulling for them this year because in a year or two, they will have to be broken up. Maybe after their first contracts, but Harden and Ibaka need to settle their money situation first. Harden won't tolerate being a backup his whole career either. A LOT of other teams will be glad to offer him the max and have him not only start, but be the player the team builds around.

I'm hoping my Bucks will do just this. Milwaukee isn't flashy but a MAX deal is...

time4change
05-15-2012, 08:11 PM
Collison is on a front loaded contract so he's fine; Presti handled that brilliantly. I think he is going to Amnesty Perk and find a way to lock up Harden and Ibaka.

Your delusional if you think you'll be able to keep both Harden and Ibaka. I think it would be Ibaka if it was though. At least I am hoping..

ccg34
05-15-2012, 08:30 PM
Screw the Thunder along with their ****** owner. Seattle was robbed of this team. I have respect for the fans from okc, but screw Clay Bennett. Until Seattle gets a team, I will never get over losing the Sonics. He is a scum bag and a piece of crap. As long as he is owning this team, I wish nothing but the worst. I'm hoping KD pulls a Lebron and takes his talents elsewhere. I'm hoping the Spurs or Heat put a smackdown on them. Clay Bennet doesn't deserve this team. He is a thief and the biggest liar of all the owners.

Baller1
05-15-2012, 10:52 PM
Your delusional if you think you'll be able to keep both Harden and Ibaka. I think it would be Ibaka if it was though. At least I am hoping..

I'm not delusional in the slightest, but thanks for the concern.

Raph12
05-16-2012, 02:55 AM
Even if you're right about them losing Harden and/or Ibaka (I think you're wrong), I'm confident that a team lead by Durant and Westbrook can still win championships.

If they get any better next season, Harden will command a max deal and Ibaka will be in the $10-15M range also; it'll be nearly impossible to keep both... It would really depend on how they retool the frontline after Ibaka's departure (I'd choose the beard).

Jumi
05-16-2012, 09:15 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I'd let Harden walk before I got rid of Ibaka. Good big men don't grow on trees and you can see that he's expanded his offensive abilities. It would be difficult to replace Harden, no doubt, but you can sign veteran sixth men if this team becomes what they should. OKC faces a strange future! No team has had that many good players on one team that freakin young! They have 3 max players under 25! Usually teams expand their game over time, so money isn't an issue. TP had growing pains with the Spurs and Manu took a couple seasons to truly understand the NBA game in all areas so they really weren't max guys early in their tenure with the Spurs. Good luck to you guys! Hopefully the Spurs win it all this year because OKC is a dynasty in the making!!! I can see a three peat easily!

Carey
05-16-2012, 09:36 AM
If they get any better next season, Harden will command a max deal and Ibaka will be in the $10-15M range also; it'll be nearly impossible to keep both... It would really depend on how they retool the frontline after Ibaka's departure (I'd choose the beard).

Harden will be extended this summer, i dont think it's anyway Presti lets him get to restricted free agency. I also think Presti is gonna take a real big swing at seeing if he could backload a deal for Ibaka so that the higher cap hits come when Perk is off the books. He's done a great job of getting inexpensive but quality role players around them. Its still much more likely Ibaka is the piece that gets away but we do have a good young big we have in Germany right now by the name of Tibor Pleiss that will be over in the next year or two. I think they'll very much follow the San Antonio model and contend for years to come, but they need to win 1 first before you can say they'll win 8 out of ten or something.

LJEATON26
05-16-2012, 10:42 AM
I think Perk restructures after next year. (If I read right you can restructure after 3 years). Sam Presti is a genius and I think he already knows how to secure everyone to create a dynasty.