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View Full Version : Kobe Bryant just finished top five in MVP voting for the 10th time in his career.



Bruno
05-12-2012, 08:00 PM
Kobe Bryant finished 4th in the 2012 NBA regular-season MVP voting (behind James, Durant and Chris Paul).

It is the 10th time that Bryant has finished top five in regular season MVP voting:
1st: 2008.
2nd: 2009.
3rd: 2003, 2007, 2010.
4th: 2006, 2011, 2012.
5th: 2002, 2004

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/12/mvp-release/index.html

Fun Facts:
Only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (15), and Bill Russell (11) have finished with more top five finishes than Kobe Bryant. Bryant joins Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain with ten top five finishes.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, and Kobe Bryant are the only players in NBA history with ten or more top five finishes in regular season MVP voting.

*LeBron James will need only three more top five finishes to join this club.

Supreme LA
05-12-2012, 08:05 PM
Kobe's 5 rings is all he really needs to define his legacy.

Bruno
05-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Kobe's 5 rings is all he really needs to define his legacy.

Tom Heinsohn, Statch Sanders and Jim Loscutoff might tell ya there's a bit more too it than that.

HouRealCoach
05-12-2012, 08:12 PM
Its a shame that he didn't even deserve the one he got....

Bruno
05-12-2012, 08:18 PM
Its a shame that he didn't even deserve the one he got....

yea he did.

now what? :up:

BKLYNpigeon
05-12-2012, 08:22 PM
No one counts or cares about MVP's. only rings.

Bruno
05-12-2012, 08:26 PM
No one counts or cares about MVP's. only rings.

they don't?

Chronz
05-12-2012, 08:26 PM
That caps off a decade of dominance.

I Rock Shaqs
05-12-2012, 08:29 PM
Kobe Bryant is sexy

LakersA's49ers
05-12-2012, 08:33 PM
Love this guy! Props for a consistent career. Wish he could get atleast 1 more MVP, but im definitely into rings first and foremost

Fnom11
05-12-2012, 08:34 PM
The fact that anyone even voted for him this season is a travesty.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 08:37 PM
Pretty remarkable. Some Kobe fans seem upset he only has one MVP...but being a top 5 player for that long is an incredibly remarkable feat...something only a very, very, very select amount of players can say for themselves.

:clap:

Swashcuff
05-12-2012, 08:39 PM
Pretty remarkable. Some Kobe fans seem upset he only has one MVP...but being a top 5 player for that long is an incredibly remarkable feat...something only a very, very, very select amount of players can say for themselves.

:clap:

:nod: indeed he's a part of select company

LAKobeBryant
05-12-2012, 08:43 PM
are you kidding me joe johnson got in the talk for mvp?

ThunderousDemon
05-12-2012, 08:47 PM
Meh

smith&wesson
05-12-2012, 08:47 PM
Its a shame that he didn't even deserve the one he got....

i disagree.

Cal827
05-12-2012, 08:49 PM
Don't mean to take away from Kobe's outstanding feat... but that last line about Lebron is amazing too. Only three more... :speechless:

smith&wesson
05-12-2012, 08:53 PM
That caps off a decade of dominance.

YES


Kobe Bryant is sexy

and yes

smith&wesson
05-12-2012, 08:54 PM
Don't mean to take away from Kobe's outstanding feat... but that last line about Lebron is amazing too. Only three more... :speechless:

lebron is a monster. ppl will apreciate him more later on. right now he is taken for granted

More-Than-Most
05-12-2012, 08:59 PM
Lol is JJ a member of the board? Maybe a family member or something? Come on really

llemon
05-12-2012, 09:06 PM
Kobe Bryant finished 4th in the 2012 NBA regular-season MVP voting (behind James, Durant and Chris Paul).

It is the 10th time that Bryant has finished top five in regular season MVP voting:
1st: 2008.
2nd: 2009.
3rd: 2003, 2007, 2010.
4th: 2006, 2011, 2012.
5th: 2002, 2004

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/12/mvp-release/index.html

Fun Facts:
Only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (15), and Bill Russell (11) have finished with more top five finishes than Kobe Bryant. Bryant joins Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain with ten top five finishes.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, and Kobe Bryant are the only players in NBA history with ten or more top five finishes in regular season MVP voting.

*LeBron James will need only three more top five finishes to join this club.

Sorry, but who gives a flying fuhoodgee?

theheatles
05-12-2012, 09:09 PM
*LeBron James will need only three more top five finishes to join this club.

well he's going to win the next 3 mvps putting him in this club and giving him 6 league mvps and then lebron will pull his dick out on national tv and tell mj to hold it

lakersfan01
05-12-2012, 09:11 PM
4th? :laugh2: 43% fgs, 30% 3pointers, 23 fg attempts/game.

Cal827
05-12-2012, 09:14 PM
well he's going to win the next 3 mvps putting him in this club and giving him 6 league mvps and then lebron will pull his dick out on national tv and tell mj to hold it

:laugh::laugh:

lakersfan01
05-12-2012, 09:14 PM
well he's going to win the next 3 mvps putting him in this club and giving him 6 league mvps and then lebron will pull his dick out on national tv and tell mj to hold it

Then all Bron will need is 6 rings :laugh2:

In all seriousness, he should be getting one this year. I'm not a Lebron basher like most of America, but he needs at least a few rings for him to have a legitimate argument for being better than. MJ.

Kobeme Bryant is not worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as. new sentence. Michael Jordan. Lebron has a shot if he can start winning many championships.

willabeast77
05-12-2012, 10:29 PM
Good to see that Chris Paul came in 3rd. I assumed the media would have given more votes to Parker than Paul.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 10:47 PM
Then all Bron will need is 6 rings :laugh2:

In all seriousness, he should be getting one this year. I'm not a Lebron basher like most of America, but he needs at least a few rings for him to have a legitimate argument for being better than. MJ.

Kobeme Bryant is not worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as. new sentence. Michael Jordan. Lebron has a shot if he can start winning many championships.

I don't know if he'll ever surpass Jordan in most people's eyes. Whether he deserves it ultimately or not, Jordan has been placed on a pedestal that is nearly untouchable. The detractors will detract the narrative enough to the point where even if there's a legit argument to be made, the consensus will never be that LBJ > MJ.

I expect flack for this...but I think Lebron just needs 2-3 rings, and a couple Finals MVPs to pass Kobe. he's already proven to be the superior individual player, in the regular season (and hell, statistically in the playoffs too). I think he's been the better individual player at his peak already, but the team success will decide it ultimately.

Rafer17
05-12-2012, 10:53 PM
What happened to Kobe in 2005?

Supa
05-12-2012, 11:29 PM
The solution is to take away the voting right from the sports writers and give it back to the peer(player)/coach.

---

Gritz
05-12-2012, 11:59 PM
My my player has won the mvp 8 straight seasons, I am not impressed

Gritz
05-13-2012, 12:02 AM
well he's going to win the next 3 mvps putting him in this club and giving him 6 league mvps and then lebron will pull his dick out on national tv and tell mj to hold it

Ban for gay fetish

broncosfan4eva
05-13-2012, 12:02 AM
The fact that anyone even voted for him this season is a travesty.

The fact that you became a heat fan 2 years ago is a travesty.

Sactown
05-13-2012, 12:38 AM
The fact that you became a heat fan 2 years ago is a travesty.

I hate when people say this.. I've been a huge Kings fan for 12 years and I've joined PSD like 2 years ago? How do you know it's any different from him

naps
05-13-2012, 12:57 AM
I think being fortunate enough to play for a storied franchise which has always been focused on winning championships and continuously building top contending teams has something to do with it. Bryant has played on championship teams for 95% of his career as the 2nd best/best player. So I think its not a surprising feat since he has been a top 5 player for so many years.

Fnom11
05-13-2012, 01:05 AM
I hate when people say this.. I've been a huge Kings fan for 12 years and I've joined PSD like 2 years ago? How do you know it's any different from him

Honestly I just assume that that guy is an idiot and thinks a person becomes a fan when they join a website.

Cfrey
05-13-2012, 01:33 AM
People need to stop acting like the MVP has zero meaning to is whatsover.. holy hell gimme a break..

and kobe shouldn't have even been top 5 this year.. its a shame how slanted the voting is

naps
05-13-2012, 01:34 AM
Honestly I just assume that that guy is an idiot and thinks a person becomes a fan when they join a website.

JB also thinks that way. If you join PSD today then you were not a fan before today, you are a fan from today. Like PSD is the church or something of basketball...LMFAO!

kblo247
05-13-2012, 02:44 AM
What happened to Kobe in 2005?

He, Lamar, and Caron played 44 games together all year.

Rudy t quit with them being the 5th seed because if alcoholism

Kobe say out the end of the year after his wife miscarried with their second child in the second trimester

Also missed games with an ankle injury that was worsened by plantar faschitis from being asked to bulk up

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-13-2012, 02:59 AM
well he's going to win the next 3 mvps putting him in this club and giving him 6 league mvps and then lebron will pull his dick out on national tv and tell mj to hold it

So all of a sudden, LeBron is being compared to Michael now?

Kids these things. :pity:

Bruno
05-13-2012, 03:04 AM
Sorry, but who gives a flying fuhoodgee?

the forty people who commented, including yourself, and the 1,000 people who viewed this thread in the past four hours.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-13-2012, 03:09 AM
JB also thinks that way. If you join PSD today then you were not a fan before today, you are a fan from today. Like PSD is the church or something of basketball...LMFAO!

:laugh:

Bruno
05-13-2012, 03:33 AM
JB also thinks that way. If you join PSD today then you were not a fan before today, you are a fan from today. Like PSD is the church or something of basketball...LMFAO!


it's not that you weren't a fan. it's that you weren't adamant enough to join a forum until your team was the favorite to win the title. maybe you just didn't know about psd until then. and that's totally cool, its not even think its a big deal. so what?

you can't bash me for that though. i join the forum the month before Gasol was traded to the Lakers :D .

Swashcuff
05-13-2012, 07:54 AM
the forty people who commented, including yourself, and the 1,000 people who viewed this thread in the past four hours.

He's a 80 year old troll. Has been on my ignore list for months. 95% of what he says is just to hate.

USMCLaker
05-13-2012, 08:00 AM
I finished 6th with zero votes.

Fnom11
05-13-2012, 08:51 AM
it's not that you weren't a fan. it's that you weren't adamant enough to join a forum until your team was the favorite to win the title. maybe you just didn't know about psd until then. and that's totally cool, its not even think its a big deal. so what?

you can't bash me for that though. i join the forum the month before Gasol was traded to the Lakers :D .

Never understood that logic anyway. People don't become fans of ****** teams, it just doesn't happen. Sooner or later a team becomes hyped up and that attracts new fans. You think the Lakers have the most fans because they're the most fun to watch? No they've won 16 championships and have been to the NBA Finals 31 times and that attracts more fans.

But because these people are "new" fans their opinions mean less or they're worse people.

I'm not saying I just became a fan of the Heat, I became one the first time I watched Wade step on a NBA court.

JordansBulls
05-13-2012, 09:09 AM
it's not that you weren't a fan. it's that you weren't adamant enough to join a forum until your team was the favorite to win the title. maybe you just didn't know about psd until then. and that's totally cool, its not even think its a big deal. so what?

you can't bash me for that though. i join the forum the month before Gasol was traded to the Lakers :D .

Yep. Not to mention where were they when there team actually won it all with a star player already. Also they give the notion that they mainly support the new star on there team more than anyone else in the league. It's not like it was 15 years ago or something.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2012, 10:26 AM
No one counts or cares about MVP's. only rings.

spoken like a true Kobe fan and LeBron hater.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2012, 10:27 AM
congrats to Kobe for another achievement many before him didn't reach. Whether or not you think at this point many of his awards are merit based or reputation based, it won't matter in the history books, the awards are still there.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2012, 10:34 AM
it's not that you weren't a fan. it's that you weren't adamant enough to join a forum until your team was the favorite to win the title. maybe you just didn't know about psd until then. and that's totally cool, its not even think its a big deal. so what?

you can't bash me for that though. i join the forum the month before Gasol was traded to the Lakers :D .

I joined when my team sucked. Didn't know about the site until my friend told me it was a good place to get rumors/news. And then I lurked the message boards for 6 months until I saw a poster say something I didn't agree with at all. Guess which team he was a fan of? :p

CoffeeJanitor
05-13-2012, 10:37 AM
Pretty remarkable. Some Kobe fans seem upset he only has one MVP...but being a top 5 player for that long is an incredibly remarkable feat...something only a very, very, very select amount of players can say for themselves.

:clap:Yup...He may never have been the best player in any given year, but his consistency has been remarkable

LoveMeOrHateMe
05-13-2012, 11:03 AM
Congrats to Kobe the sad part is he only has 1 MVP when he really should have 3-4 what's even more sad is people think he didn't deserve the one he got... Look back on that year lakers had the better record Kobe was the best player in the game and the deciding factor was Kobe beating the hornets in that game that decided the MVP
Kobe will go down as a top 3 player when it's all said and done

LoveMeOrHateMe
05-13-2012, 11:08 AM
Then all Bron will need is 6 rings :laugh2:

In all seriousness, he should be getting one this year. I'm not a Lebron basher like most of America, but he needs at least a few rings for him to have a legitimate argument for being better than. MJ.

Kobeme Bryant is not worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as. new sentence. Michael Jordan. Lebron has NO(Fixed) shot if he can start winning many championships.

:facepalm: A lakers fan who likes Lebron but hates Kobe isn't really a lakers fan to me... That tells me you don't appreciate what Kobe has done for your so called team and well Kobe absolutely deserves to be in the same breath as MJ even MJ himself said that if there was anyone close to being the greatest it was Kobe and that no one else should be compared... So keep on living in your Kobe hating world it's all good.

LoveMeOrHateMe
05-13-2012, 11:13 AM
I don't know if he'll ever surpass Jordan in most people's eyes. Whether he deserves it ultimately or not, Jordan has been placed on a pedestal that is nearly untouchable. The detractors will detract the narrative enough to the point where even if there's a legit argument to be made, the consensus will never be that LBJ > MJ.

I expect flack for this...but I think Lebron just needs 2-3 rings, and a couple Finals MVPs to pass Kobe. he's already proven to be the superior individual player, in the regular season (and hell, statistically in the playoffs too). I think he's been the better individual player at his peak already, but the team success will decide it ultimately.


Stats Aren't everythings... Give me kobes career over lebrons any day of the week even though both careers aren't over yet!
And anyone with a brain knows that Kobe in his prime would absolutely blow lebron James out of the water... Give me MJ(Kobe) over Magic(Lebron)
Actually Lebron isn't even magic cuz at least magic is/was a winner Lebron well let's just say he loves his stats and choking more then winning championships

LoveMeOrHateMe
05-13-2012, 11:19 AM
Yup...He may never have been the best player in any given year, but his consistency has been remarkable

This comment is idiotic and so false... There was a point from 05 to maybe 10' where Kobe was the consencious top player in the league! The media knew it, retired NBA players knew it hell everyone at school knew it... I just laugh when I see a comment like that

Bravo95
05-13-2012, 11:20 AM
The same idiots who complain about hate whenever Lebron accomplishes something are doing it in this thread.

LoveMeOrHateMe
05-13-2012, 11:25 AM
^^^ exactly

Bravo95
05-13-2012, 11:36 AM
The fact that guys like Garnett and Kobe are still getting it done after 16-17 years, in the biggest games should be enough to make the biggest "hater" keep his mouth shut. Look at where the rest of the class of '95/'96 are now.

Injuries and other things could/will prevent most of these younger Drake generation NBA stars from playing at the level of these two when they reach that age. Props to him (and KG), the rest of us will just enjoy the show.

Avenged
05-13-2012, 11:40 AM
I joined when my team sucked. Didn't know about the site until my friend told me it was a good place to get rumors/news. And then I lurked the message boards for 6 months until I saw a poster say something I didn't agree with at all. Guess which team he was a fan of? :p

The epic battles of Armin vs. Hawkeye.

CoffeeJanitor
05-13-2012, 12:10 PM
This comment is idiotic and so false... There was a point from 05 to maybe 10' where Kobe was the consencious top player in the league! The media knew it, retired NBA players knew it hell everyone at school knew it... I just laugh when I see a comment like thatI'm sure Kobe really appreciates you defending him like he's jesus or some ****

NFLNBA
05-13-2012, 12:35 PM
Hate the man or love the man but respect the man!

I find it funny how someone who has broken mostly all of Jordans records who everyone agrees is the best ever reiceves so much hate and denial of being as great as he was and is ect. The man has 5 Championships, has a 81pt game as a SG not a Center remind you! He broke Jordans record for most consecutive 40 pt games with 8 i believe how many allstars 14? How many first team defense? Only 1 MVP for the regular season but remember 2 FINALS MVP's!!!! HOw he didnt get the MVP the season he averaged 36 a game is a travesty. People love jordan so much in this era of the fans that Kobe was the next one and people didnt like it at all that he was compared to him. Now that more time as gone by we have the new generation of fans with the Lebron era and most kids didnt even see a Jordan game us older peeps did but KObe was that middle man who came after the almighty Jordan and that hurt him. Kobe IMO will go down as a top 10 player all time. Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Russel, Bird, Jabbar, Malone, Stockton, Hakeem. Where he sits in the order of that top 10 is really debatible but what isnt debatible is he is the 2nd greatest SG all time as we stand lets just see how his career ends as well, one of the best to lace them up, and light years ahead of Lebron for god sakes! How he is even considered in the same breath makes me sick! What has he done that is so great? Lose in the Finals? Choke? Leave his city he couldnt win a ring with to join a superteam to get it done? PLZ people!!!!!

LoveMeOrHateMe
05-13-2012, 12:38 PM
Hate the man or love the man but respect the man!

I find it funny how someone who has broken mostly all of Jordans records who everyone agrees is the best ever reiceves so much hate and denial of being as great as he was and is ect. The man has 5 Championships, has a 81pt game as a SG not a Center remind you! He broke Jordans record for most consecutive 40 pt games with 8 i believe how many allstars 14? How many first team defense? Only 1 MVP for the regular season but remember 2 FINALS MVP's!!!! HOw he didnt get the MVP the season he averaged 36 a game is a travesty. People love jordan so much in this era of the fans that Kobe was the next one and people didnt like it at all that he was compared to him. Now that more time as gone by we have the new generation of fans with the Lebron era and most kids didnt even see a Jordan game us older peeps did but KObe was that middle man who came after the almighty Jordan and that hurt him. Kobe IMO will go down as a top 10 player all time. Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Russel, Bird, Jabbar, Malone, Stockton, Hakeem. Where he sits in the order of that top 10 is really debatible but what isnt debatible is he is the 2nd greatest SG all time as we stand lets just see how his career ends as well, one of the best to lace them up, and light years ahead of Lebron for god sakes! How he is even considered in the same breath makes me sick! What has he done that is so great? Lose in the Finals? Choke? Leave his city he couldnt win a ring with to join a superteam to get it done? PLZ people!!!!!

:clap:

JayW_1023
05-13-2012, 12:43 PM
Whoops wrong thread. Apologies.

USMCLaker
05-13-2012, 12:45 PM
I also came in 7th place with zero votes.

Ty Fast
05-13-2012, 12:48 PM
lebron finished 1st for the 3rd time

DaLakerz Rulz
05-13-2012, 12:49 PM
lebron finished 1st for the 3rd time

It doesn't count, he traveled while doing so.

lpdunks8
05-13-2012, 01:05 PM
What's funny is the disconnect between a lot of NBA players and fans/media. Just go through some of the game reports from this season's games. There are numerous qoutes from opposing players saying he's still the best player in the game.

Interesting isn't it?

beliges
05-13-2012, 02:42 PM
MVPs are terrific to have, but all the MVPs in the world would not equal one championship. LBJ winning his 3rd MVP doesnt really do much for his career. Hes done everything he could individually at this point. Only thing left to do is win multiple championships and play well while doing it. Only a few titles will propel him into the conversation for a top 10 player.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2012, 02:45 PM
MVPs are terrific to have, but all the MVPs in the world would not equal one championship. LBJ winning his 3rd MVP doesnt really do much for his career. Hes done everything he could individually at this point. Only thing left to do is win multiple championships and play well while doing it. Only a few titles will propel him into the conversation for a top 10 player.

1 title in his prime is going to be enough for him to slip into the top 10 imo. His numbers are nearly unmatched, only by a couple of players. But yes, the only thing that assures him being top 10 is a title while in his prime.

As for the thread, even the most hardcore Laker/Kobe fan can't possibly think he is still the best player in the league. If you do, you need to remove the blue/gold glasses.

CoffeeJanitor
05-13-2012, 02:51 PM
Hate the man or love the man but respect the man!

I find it funny how someone who has broken mostly all of Jordans records who everyone agrees is the best ever reiceves so much hate and denial of being as great as he was and is ect. The man has 5 Championships, has a 81pt game as a SG not a Center remind you! He broke Jordans record for most consecutive 40 pt games with 8 i believe how many allstars 14? How many first team defense? Only 1 MVP for the regular season but remember 2 FINALS MVP's!!!! HOw he didnt get the MVP the season he averaged 36 a game is a travesty. People love jordan so much in this era of the fans that Kobe was the next one and people didnt like it at all that he was compared to him. Now that more time as gone by we have the new generation of fans with the Lebron era and most kids didnt even see a Jordan game us older peeps did but KObe was that middle man who came after the almighty Jordan and that hurt him. Kobe IMO will go down as a top 10 player all time. Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Russel, Bird, Jabbar, Malone, Stockton, Hakeem. Where he sits in the order of that top 10 is really debatible but what isnt debatible is he is the 2nd greatest SG all time as we stand lets just see how his career ends as well, one of the best to lace them up, and light years ahead of Lebron for god sakes! How he is even considered in the same breath makes me sick! What has he done that is so great? Lose in the Finals? Choke? Leave his city he couldnt win a ring with to join a superteam to get it done? PLZ people!!!!!This is one of the most homerific posts I've ever seen. Congrats.

beliges
05-13-2012, 02:51 PM
1 title in his prime is going to be enough for him to slip into the top 10 imo. His numbers are nearly unmatched, only by a couple of players. But yes, the only thing that assures him being top 10 is a title while in his prime.

As for the thread, even the most hardcore Laker/Kobe fan can't possibly think he is still the best player in the league. If you do, you need to remove the blue/gold glasses.

Kobe is certainly not the best player in the league anymore. Hes in his 16th season for goodness sakes. However, winning ONE title is most definitely not enough, especially given the fact that he is on a team with 2 other superstars. Its difficult to tell who he would take out of the top 10. Hes not surpassing Hakeem or Duncan with just one title. One thing every top 10 player has in common is MULTIPLE titles. Lebron is not the exception to that rule. His numbers are not unmatched. He has great numbers but so did everyone on that top 10 list. Given the failures he has had and poor peformances in the FInals and playoffs, having one good run is not going to be enough. However, he is in a good situation right now with Miami. The East will be his for some time. However, it seems the Thunder have a great shot to start winning their own titles and if Durant is able to get his this year, then itll be difficult to say Lebron is the better player. But time will tell.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2012, 03:05 PM
Kobe is certainly not the best player in the league anymore. Hes in his 16th season for goodness sakes. However, winning ONE title is most definitely not enough, especially given the fact that he is on a team with 2 other superstars. Its difficult to tell who he would take out of the top 10. Hes not surpassing Hakeem or Duncan with just one title. One thing every top 10 player has in common is MULTIPLE titles. Lebron is not the exception to that rule. His numbers are not unmatched. He has great numbers but so did everyone on that top 10 list. Given the failures he has had and poor peformances in the FInals and playoffs, having one good run is not going to be enough. However, he is in a good situation right now with Miami. The East will be his for some time. However, it seems the Thunder have a great shot to start winning their own titles and if Durant is able to get his this year, then itll be difficult to say Lebron is the better player. But time will tell.

I have covered it before, trying to penalize LeBron for having help now is pretty weak sauce, when Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird, and everyone else outside maybe the Dream who has more than a title had ridiculous help as well. I guess if OKC wins we have to discredit Durant for having an all NBA PG and the 6th man of the year, and runner up in DPOY, right?

I see it differently. Seeing the monster numbers, awards, accolades, etc that LeBron has, a ring is simply the last remaining part of the equation. Hell his playoff numbers are way better than Kobe's, he just needs the one last thing. I don't weigh a ring any more heavily than I do stats, awards, dominance amongst peers, peak, prime, etc. Its just a factor.

So, if the Thunder win the championship, Durant is the better player? Kobe fans have been forced into that line of thinking because it rescues their guy in every debate, but its flawed from top to bottom. Its why some made the claim that Dirk was better than LeBron last season. Its nonsense, no matter how you cut it.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2012, 03:06 PM
I find it alarming how short term many of your memories are Laker fans. If you are going to get on LeBron for having Wade, better put an * next to all 3 of Kobe's first rings.

JasonJohnHorn
05-13-2012, 03:08 PM
Meh

This.

JasonJohnHorn
05-13-2012, 03:09 PM
lebron finished 1st for the 3rd time

Yeah, but he flops a lot and it's annoying as hell.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-13-2012, 03:12 PM
I find it alarming how short term many of your memories are Laker fans. If you are going to get on LeBron for having Wade, better put an * next to all 3 of Kobe's first rings.

Again, Kobe and Shaq just happened, neither guy came to the Lakers saying that they wanted to play with each other.

LeBron joined Wade, who had already won a title and finals MVP without him.

That's where the argument lies.

beliges
05-13-2012, 03:23 PM
I have covered it before, trying to penalize LeBron for having help now is pretty weak sauce, when Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird, and everyone else outside maybe the Dream who has more than a title had ridiculous help as well. I guess if OKC wins we have to discredit Durant for having an all NBA PG and the 6th man of the year, and runner up in DPOY, right?

I see it differently. Seeing the monster numbers, awards, accolades, etc that LeBron has, a ring is simply the last remaining part of the equation. Hell his playoff numbers are way better than Kobe's, he just needs the one last thing. I don't weigh a ring any more heavily than I do stats, awards, dominance amongst peers, peak, prime, etc. Its just a factor.

So, if the Thunder win the championship, Durant is the better player? Kobe fans have been forced into that line of thinking because it rescues their guy in every debate, but its flawed from top to bottom. Its why some made the claim that Dirk was better than LeBron last season. Its nonsense, no matter how you cut it.

If Lebron could have won one with the Cavs, it wouldve been a completely different story. And yes, most people did put an asterisk next to Kobe's first 3 titles because he didnt do it without Shaq. Up to that point, he never had the opportunity to do it without Shaq. He had a great teammate and maximized it by winning 3 in a row which has only happened less than a handful of times in the history of the league. But what Kobe did, and what Lebron will most likely have to do eventually, is win without the "other guy."

Anyways though, you keep citing to Lebron's numbers but you need to understand that players like Hakeem, Wilt, Shaq, Bird, MJ, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Russell all has seasons where they had similar or better numbers than Lebron. Lebron's numbers is in the same class as those guys, not better as you like to put it. However, all those guys I mentioned not only had similar numbers but they were all multiple champs. Lebron is NOT going to end that trend.

And yes, if Durant leads his team to a title, he will be considered the better player. Lebron is playing alongside Wade and Bosh. He SHOULD win it. No excuse for him not to win it. Furthermore, NONE of those guys mentioned left their team and decided to join another superstar's team. I dont understand how you think that is not relevant. Theres a difference between being put in a situation to built up your teammates and winning, and going to a stacked team and winning.

Lebron's got a long ways to go before he is in the top 10 conversation. He will need to surpass Duncan or Hakeem if he wants to get in the top 10 (depending on how you have your top 10). And I can guarantee you, without winning at least 2 or 3 titles, its just not gonna happen.

Chronz
05-13-2012, 04:07 PM
Again, Kobe and Shaq just happened, neither guy came to the Lakers saying that they wanted to play with each other.

LeBron joined Wade, who had already won a title and finals MVP without him.

That's where the argument lies.

Sounds like a shallow argument, especially when you consider how important frontcourt dominance is when it comes to championships.

Joining Wade still means Bron has to overcome not having the trees behind him.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2012, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by beliges


If Lebron could have won one with the Cavs, it wouldve been a completely different story. And yes, most people did put an asterisk next to Kobe's first 3 titles because he didnt do it without Shaq.

His Cavs team would have been by far and away the least amount of support any star has ever had if he won a championship with that roster. Winning one would have thrown him straight into top 5 ever. And no, only idiots put asterisks next to players accomplishments.


Up to that point, he never had the opportunity to do it without Shaq. He had a great teammate and maximized it by winning 3 in a row which has only happened less than a handful of times in the history of the league. But what Kobe did, and what Lebron will most likely have to do eventually, is win without the "other guy."

Kobe has never won without extremely dominant help. Try again.


Anyways though, you keep citing to Lebron's numbers but you need to understand that players like Hakeem, Wilt, Shaq, Bird, MJ, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Russell all has seasons where they had similar or better numbers than Lebron. Lebron's numbers is in the same class as those guys, not better as you like to put it. However, all those guys I mentioned not only had similar numbers but they were all multiple champs. Lebron is NOT going to end that trend.

Jordan is the only player who has had better numbers through his peak. All else are beneath LeBron's statistics unless we are going to throw in per game numbers of the old timers who had 40 more possessions a game to work with.


And yes, if Durant leads his team to a title, he will be considered the better player.

For you maybe, but not to a person who looks at the big picture when evaluating. The flavor of the month doesn't get better because his team finally stepped up to support him.


Lebron is playing alongside Wade and Bosh.

Durant has Harden, Westbrook, and Ibaka. Bird had McHale, Parish, Johnson, Maxwell, Waltong. Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper. Jordan had Pippen. Kobe had Shaq, Gasol, Bynum. What is your point? I think its ridiculous that LeBron haters have now moved onto whatever other excuses they can grasp for at this point. After Bosh, maybe a top 30 player, their roster play drops off a cliff. They have nowhere near the role players the guys we have brought up have.


He SHOULD win it. No excuse for him not to win it.

Agree for once.


Furthermore, NONE of those guys mentioned left their team and decided to join another superstar's team. I dont understand how you think that is not relevant.


Why would you leave a team that provided you championship help from day 1? That makes no sense. I don't think its relevant in the slightest, it happens all the time in sports.


Theres a difference between being put in a situation to built up your teammates and winning, and going to a stacked team and winning.

ding ding ding! This is what Duncan, Kobe, Magic, and Bird walked into. But since LeBron had to use free agency instead of the draft to get this done, it somehow becomes wrong.



Lebron's got a long ways to go before he is in the top 10 conversation. He will need to surpass Duncan or Hakeem if he wants to get in the top 10 (depending on how you have your top 10). And I can guarantee you, without winning at least 2 or 3 titles, its just not gonna happen.

My top 10 most likely doesn't match yours. LeBron has the numbers to be there already if he simply maintains another few seasons. He wins a ring, the single criticism against him dies. At that point, its a pile of excuses trying to tell me he doesn't rank with the all timers.

blastmasta26
05-13-2012, 06:59 PM
Don't think Kobe deserved it this year, but still a testament to his great longevity.

The criticism of LeBron is really short-sighted IMO. I will concede, I initially criticized LeBron for going to Miami (probably because I was so upset he didn't come to NY), but I cooled down and looked at it objectively. You can't knock LeBron for seeking help, as his original team never provided it to him. So many of the greats walked into incredible situations from day one, which is why they never had to leave.

Also, to people that claim joining Wade, a proven winner, harms him, I say the opposite. It is clear that LeBron now runs this Miami team, so to take over the team from an established champion in Wade should raise LeBron's standing, not hurt it.

Bruno
05-13-2012, 07:03 PM
What happened to Kobe in 2005?

injuries.


The solution is to take away the voting right from the sports writers and give it back to the peer(player)/coach.

---
i dono, Kobe would have racked a lot more than one if players voted on MVP.

He's a 80 year old troll. Has been on my ignore list for months. 95% of what he says is just to hate.
he is.


Never understood that logic anyway. People don't become fans of ****** teams, it just doesn't happen. Sooner or later a team becomes hyped up and that attracts new fans. You think the Lakers have the most fans because they're the most fun to watch? No they've won 16 championships and have been to the NBA Finals 31 times and that attracts more fans.

But because these people are "new" fans their opinions mean less or they're worse people.

I'm not saying I just became a fan of the Heat, I became one the first time I watched Wade step on a NBA court.

people usually become fans of bad team if they're from the same city that the bad team plays. there are exceptions.


Yep. Not to mention where were they when there team actually won it all with a star player already. Also they give the notion that they mainly support the new star on there team more than anyone else in the league. It's not like it was 15 years ago or something.
that bugs me a lot as well. i'd be excited to have LBJ too, but some of these HEAT fans don't appreciate what Wade has done for the franchise.


congrats to Kobe for another achievement many before him didn't reach. Whether or not you think at this point many of his awards are merit based or reputation based, it won't matter in the history books, the awards are still there.
classy hawk.

I joined when my team sucked. Didn't know about the site until my friend told me it was a good place to get rumors/news. And then I lurked the message boards for 6 months until I saw a poster say something I didn't agree with at all. Guess which team he was a fan of? :p

I joined PSD for one reason. So I could find access to streaming Laker games (i had just moved from LA to SF, and Fox Bay Area plays The Warriors not the Lakers). I found streaming links, lurked, and finally joined when i wanted to respond to a post by Lost Art.



1 title in his prime is going to be enough for him to slip into the top 10 imo. His numbers are nearly unmatched, only by a couple of players. But yes, the only thing that assures him being top 10 is a title while in his prime.

As for the thread, even the most hardcore Laker/Kobe fan can't possibly think he is still the best player in the league. If you do, you need to remove the blue/gold glasses.

I dono man, I think he needs at least two to crack the top ten. Every single member of the top ten club has two rings and two Finals MVPs, I don't think he gets an exception.


I find it alarming how short term many of your memories are Laker fans. If you are going to get on LeBron for having Wade, better put an * next to all 3 of Kobe's first rings.
sure. but for that very reason, I don't understand the LBJ only needs 2-3 titles to pass kobe stuff. I'm not outraged by it or anything, If he did it without joining a former finals MVP, then i'd agree. but LBJ is playing alongside with some really great teammates now and i don't know if his regular season statistical dominance makes up for a 2-3 title difference, especially since he's had an all-star cast since age 25 (and will continue to have an all star cast well into his 30's pending a blow up in south beach). he didn't have the help in cleveland, but when we look back in ten years, well all have to admit that he played with a loaded roster from 25-? (peak years, 25-29 or so).

Bruno
05-13-2012, 07:08 PM
Don't think Kobe deserved it this year, but still a testament to his great longevity.

didn't deserve 4th? who would you have put ahead of him?


Also, to people that claim joining Wade, a proven winner, harms him, I say the opposite. It is clear that LeBron now runs this Miami team, so to take over the team from an established champion in Wade should raise LeBron's standing, not hurt it.

I think this is a little over-blown. in dwyane wade were still talking about a guy who was 3rd in PER, and 5th in WS/48. Wade is still elite, has an argument as the best SG in the league, ect. LBJ needs Wade to win a title (and thats totally cool, because everyone needs help). but ill say, miami has no shot at the title if you take wade off that team. OKC would eat them for breakfast.

playing with Wade doesn't necessarily hurt LBJ, but i don't see it as some personal bonus-point type situation.

Bruno
05-13-2012, 07:14 PM
Pretty remarkable. Some Kobe fans seem upset he only has one MVP...but being a top 5 player for that long is an incredibly remarkable feat...something only a very, very, very select amount of players can say for themselves.

:clap:
classy manram.

:nod: indeed he's a part of select company
classy.

well he's going to win the next 3 mvps putting him in this club and giving him 6 league mvps and then lebron will pull his dick out on national tv and tell mj to hold it
:laugh2:


I expect flack for this...but I think Lebron just needs 2-3 rings, and a couple Finals MVPs to pass Kobe. he's already proven to be the superior individual player, in the regular season (and hell, statistically in the playoffs too). I think he's been the better individual player at his peak already, but the team success will decide it ultimately.
I think he'd need 3-4, and to surpass him in finals MVPs. he'd also need to come close to matching his longevity (which he probably will).


People need to stop acting like the MVP has zero meaning to is whatsover.. holy hell gimme a break..

and kobe shouldn't have even been top 5 this year.. its a shame how slanted the voting is
who should have been four and five ahead of kobe?


Sounds like a shallow argument, especially when you consider how important frontcourt dominance is when it comes to championships.

Joining Wade still means Bron has to overcome not having the trees behind him.
fair. but.

LBJ is kind of a tree himself. he's pretty much karl malone with perimeter handles. lol.

john545455
05-13-2012, 07:35 PM
So Lebron was the most valuable player 3 times and has zero championships. What a joke... Obviously closing out games does not matter to the public, or who ever votes. I guess passing the ball at the end of games makes him MVP. The guy has 2 perennial all stars on his team and still won it. When it's all said and done he can call up Kobe, and gloat about his 5 MVPs and zero championships.

If the Heat win any championships it will be because of Dwayne Wade mark my words. Ball will be in his hands late while Lebron watches.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2012, 07:47 PM
After reading every post in this thread it's clear PSD would explode if the Lakers played the Heat in the Finals. The historical ramifications are mind-boggling.

Chronz
05-13-2012, 07:48 PM
lol you dont even know who votes for MVP and you think you know its relevance?

Bruno
05-13-2012, 07:54 PM
After reading every post in this thread it's clear PSD would explode if the Lakers played the Heat in the Finals. The historical ramifications are mind-boggling.

just like Magic vs MJ in '91...

five time champ leads his team against the ringless, reigning MVP. 21 years later.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2012, 07:59 PM
just like Magic vs MJ in '91...

five time champ leads his team against the ringless, reigning MVP. 21 years later.

Great analogy. You predicting the same outcome? ;)

Bruno
05-13-2012, 08:00 PM
After reading every post in this thread it's clear PSD would explode if the Lakers played the Heat in the Finals. The historical ramifications are mind-boggling.

i don't know if Laker nation could handle seeing two seperate over-the-hill former champions get eaten up by the new generations up-and-coming future dynasty...

watching an out of his prime Kobe getting eaten up a 27 year old LBJ would be extremely depressing for me, personally.

Bruno
05-13-2012, 08:01 PM
Great analogy. You predicting the same outcome? ;)

yes.

...but if LA won?

:dance:

KnicksorBust
05-13-2012, 08:10 PM
yes.

...but if LA won?

:dance:

If Kobe beat the Heat and won Finals MVP, I'd put him #3 all-time. Seriously.

kblo247
05-13-2012, 09:07 PM
I got a better stat than this:

100% of the time LeBron James wins a regular season MVP,
Kobe wins a championship and finals MVP

Chronz
05-13-2012, 09:26 PM
If Kobe beat the Heat and won Finals MVP, I'd put him #3 all-time. Seriously.

What if Duncan did the same?

creamed corn
05-13-2012, 09:29 PM
I'd love to see if Kobe had the MVP's and LeBron had the rings. MVP's would be the end all be all for determining which player is better for Kobe fans.

AIRMAR72
05-13-2012, 09:49 PM
poor kobe atleast he has 5rings but clearly was NEVER the BEST player in league back in his hey day

kblo247
05-13-2012, 09:51 PM
What if Duncan did the same?Tim's biggest knock for me is always the same personally

- Kobe was the best player on the court in the majority of their series
- Tim has lost as a 1 to a 8, lost up 2-0, and never been to the finals b2b let alone defended a title
- longevity being good all year over falling off and getting dnps for being old

Chronz
05-13-2012, 10:41 PM
Tim's biggest knock for me is always the same personally

- Kobe was the best player on the court in the majority of their series
- Tim has lost as a 1 to a 8, lost up 2-0, and never been to the finals b2b let alone defended a title
- longevity being good all year over falling off and getting dnps for being old
Can you prove that Kobe was better than Timmy in those series? I dont recall that being the case in his prime. Which is why I dont consider many of those complaints to be so damning as they all came afterwards.

And I dont see the point in focusing on team accomplishments as if it was all Timmy's doing, besides its hard to go back to back when your forced to sit out the playoffs, forced to repeat with a flawed team, and Manu was injured against LAL. Then again, I still think he was EXTREMELY lucky to win in 2003.

Kevj77
05-13-2012, 11:01 PM
Can you prove that Kobe was better than Timmy in those series? I dont recall that being the case in his prime. Which is why I dont consider many of those complaints to be so damning as they all came afterwards.

And I dont see the point in focusing on team accomplishments as if it was all Timmy's doing, besides its hard to go back to back when your forced to sit out the playoffs, forced to repeat with a flawed team, and Manu was injured against LAL. Then again, I still think he was EXTREMELY lucky to win in 2003.2001 WCF? It was probably the best playoff series of Kobe's entire career.

kblo247
05-13-2012, 11:20 PM
2001 Kobe had his superstar/hero coming out party at the expense of the whole west. His numbers were ridiculous versus their great defense

2002 Kobe ripped the Spurs apart again despite them having one if the best defenses and defenders

2004 Kobe turned the whole series around single handedly in that game 4. He outplayed every player on both sides and was the best guy out there in game 5. Despite people remembering Tim's shot before Derek's, Kobe hit the go ahead right before that

2008 it wasn't even a contest

Even Pop has relented that Kobe was the best player in the majority of their series back doing the 08 playoffs as he said he wasn't shocked by what Kobe and the Lakers did, as Kobe had did it to them for years before.

Kobe has killer numbers and moments/posters at Tim's expense with and without Shaq

---

As for not repeating, it comes down to excuses. Kobe and Shaq lost depth on their team year by year yet 3 peated. Kobe took the youngest team to the finals the past two decades with the Pau core, despite only he and Fisher having real playoff winning experience. Then he got them back there again with a broken finger, a vastly underproducing bench, and hobbled Bynum to win a ring. Then he on a leg that needed surgery and was drained 4 times those playoffs, with an injured Bynum, a banged up Odom, an underproducing bench, and Pau playing poorly in Boston, Phoenix, and OKC still led his team to a third finals and successful title defense while defending Rondo and Westbrook. Tim has to own the fact he didn't get it done health or no health, bench or no bench, because Kobe and Shaq had no problem willing their way to defend their crown like real champions over winning every couple of years and getting randomly bounced

blastmasta26
05-13-2012, 11:27 PM
Don't think Kobe deserved it this year, but still a testament to his great longevity.

didn't deserve 4th? who would you have put ahead of him?


Also, to people that claim joining Wade, a proven winner, harms him, I say the opposite. It is clear that LeBron now runs this Miami team, so to take over the team from an established champion in Wade should raise LeBron's standing, not hurt it.

I think this is a little over-blown. in dwyane wade were still talking about a guy who was 3rd in PER, and 5th in WS/48. Wade is still elite, has an argument as the best SG in the league, ect. LBJ needs Wade to win a title (and thats totally cool, because everyone needs help). but ill say, miami has no shot at the title if you take wade off that team. OKC would eat them for breakfast.

playing with Wade doesn't necessarily hurt LBJ, but i don't see it as some personal bonus-point type situation.

Doing this from my phone, so it might come out a little odd but...

I guess the Kobe point is irrelevant. I would've said maybe Parker at 4 but I would have Kobe at 5 which still leaves him in the top 5.

As for LeBron, I see what you're saying, but it's more of a counter to the argument that LeBron needs a "winner" like Wade to succeed. I mean, he obviously needs help and I'm not implying that LeBron's presence makes Wade expendable or his performance less than elite, but he shouldn't be discredited for playing with Wade.

JordansBulls
05-14-2012, 12:23 AM
I'm actually pulling for the Spurs this season simply because I think it is the last chance Duncan will have to win a title as an impact player.

Chronz
05-14-2012, 01:24 AM
2001 WCF? It was probably the best playoff series of Kobe's entire career.
You really think so?


2001 Kobe had his superstar/hero coming out party at the expense of the whole west. His numbers were ridiculous versus their great defense

2002 Kobe ripped the Spurs apart again despite them having one if the best defenses and defenders

2004 Kobe turned the whole series around single handedly in that game 4. He outplayed every player on both sides and was the best guy out there in game 5. Despite people remembering Tim's shot before Derek's, Kobe hit the go ahead right before that

2008 it wasn't even a contest
Well said man, Im sure Kobe played better in alot of games but when it comes to expressing that impact you have to consider the defensive pressure/attention and I have a hard time believing Kobe got more attention than Duncan did. Particularly in the days before Bowen. I also have a hard time believe Kobe had anywhere near the defensive influence/responsibility Duncan had for his team so even if the stats are close, defense would definitely go in Duncans favor.

But strictly based on stats, 2001 Kobe outdid everyone.

2002, not so much. That was the year they added Bowen, Duncans stats were superior.

2003 was definitely in favor of Duncan as well, he eviscerated the Lakers tho Shaq was no longer capable of defending him in spurts at this point so I can see the argument for him having it easier than Kobe.

2004 would go to Kobe as well but the one thing that stood out for me that series was the decision to SWARM Duncan, the Spurs couldnt hit squat from outside, it prompted them to sign Barry.

So from 01-04 I would say its more like 2/2.

2008 was nearing the end for Duncan if not already passed it, but it still holds more relevance than say the first year Kobe became a starter in 98-99 where Duncan just dominated. So 3/2 in favor of Kobe if you count 08.



Even Pop has relented that Kobe was the best player in the majority of their series back doing the 08 playoffs as he said he wasn't shocked by what Kobe and the Lakers did, as Kobe had did it to them for years before.

Kobe has killer numbers and moments/posters at Tim's expense with and without Shaq

That sounds like Pop, but hes pretty harsh on his players.


As for not repeating, it comes down to excuses. Kobe and Shaq lost depth on their team year by year yet 3 peated. Kobe took the youngest team to the finals the past two decades with the Pau core, despite only he and Fisher having real playoff winning experience. Then he got them back there again with a broken finger, a vastly underproducing bench, and hobbled Bynum to win a ring. Then he on a leg that needed surgery and was drained 4 times those playoffs, with an injured Bynum, a banged up Odom, an underproducing bench, and Pau playing poorly in Boston, Phoenix, and OKC still led his team to a third finals and successful title defense while defending Rondo and Westbrook. Tim has to own the fact he didn't get it done health or no health, bench or no bench, because Kobe and Shaq had no problem willing their way to defend their crown like real champions over winning every couple of years and getting randomly bounced

LOL You do realized that Duncan was forced to sit out the playoffs and watched his "championship core" get bounce in R.1 right? Its safe to say you cant just jumble up all the extenuating factors and point the finger directly at Duncan. Most of the time Kobe had the better team so I would expect him to win most of the time. As for you focusing on Kobes accomplishments, none of his titles stand up to the 2003 run Duncan had. Even if he didnt repeat he came damn close, if not for .4 and the Manu foul he would have gone to the Finals 5 straight years, thats as close as your going to get and he did it with less around him most of the time.

More importantly, head to head matchups are a nice side story but how you do against the NBA as a whole is far more important.

FreakaNashur
05-14-2012, 01:36 AM
id rather have mvp's than finish in top five.juss sayin

Kevj77
05-14-2012, 01:47 AM
Yes, Chronz I really think so. Kobe was the best player on either team in the 2001 WCF. Better than Duncan and even Shaq he dominated the series. I also feel it was his best playoff series ever.

If it would have been the finals (it basicly was) Kobe would have been MVP.

Cali4rnia
05-14-2012, 01:56 AM
I like LeBron James but think about it if he wins 10 more MVPs with no rings now that would be FU**ed up. Oh n my personal opinion i dont think steve nash deserved it back to back years. I think kobe deserved it when he was scoring 40 points like 13 or 14 games in a row.

kblo247
05-14-2012, 03:01 AM
You really think so?


Well said man, Im sure Kobe played better in alot of games but when it comes to expressing that impact you have to consider the defensive pressure/attention and I have a hard time believing Kobe got more attention than Duncan did. Particularly in the days before Bowen. I also have a hard time believe Kobe had anywhere near the defensive influence/responsibility Duncan had for his team so even if the stats are close, defense would definitely go in Duncans favor.

But strictly based on stats, 2001 Kobe outdid everyone.

2002, not so much. That was the year they added Bowen, Duncans stats were superior.

2003 was definitely in favor of Duncan as well, he eviscerated the Lakers tho Shaq was no longer capable of defending him in spurts at this point so I can see the argument for him having it easier than Kobe.

2004 would go to Kobe as well but the one thing that stood out for me that series was the decision to SWARM Duncan, the Spurs couldnt hit squat from outside, it prompted them to sign Barry.

So from 01-04 I would say its more like 2/2.

2008 was nearing the end for Duncan if not already passed it, but it still holds more relevance than say the first year Kobe became a starter in 98-99 where Duncan just dominated. So 3/2 in favor of Kobe if you count 08.



That sounds like Pop, but hes pretty harsh on his players.


LOL You do realized that Duncan was forced to sit out the playoffs and watched his "championship core" get bounce in R.1 right? Its safe to say you cant just jumble up all the extenuating factors and point the finger directly at Duncan. Most of the time Kobe had the better team so I would expect him to win most of the time. As for you focusing on Kobes accomplishments, none of his titles stand up to the 2003 run Duncan had. Even if he didnt repeat he came damn close, if not for .4 and the Manu foul he would have gone to the Finals 5 straight years, thats as close as your going to get and he did it with less around him most of the time.

More importantly, head to head matchups are a nice side story but how you do against the NBA as a whole is far more important.

Yeah I'll give you 02 but I do remember on the road in Sna Antonio, and Kobe breaking the Spurs. I also remember the play of the series that truly decided it IMO was Fish missing a j for the game and Kobe getting the rebound over the towers and putting it back it in and then flexing to the Laker bench and mouthing it's over to Fox.

Duncan came very close with 0.4 sure, but the same could be said for the Kobe lakers of 03 coming that damn close as well in. Game 5 ironically enough. Kobe led a hell of a comeback in San Antonio in game 5 as well that year, but he trusted Horry late, rightfully so mind you, and that was a shocking moment when Horry missed the 3 for it all. Horry hits that and they 4 peat, maybe even go for 5 straight.

I do miss the Laker/Spurs days of old thinking back though.

I think Tim is top 10 without a doubt, but I just don't think it holds the same as Shaq when he 3 peated, Kobe 3 peating and also going to 3 straight finals with a much younger core than time and defending the title with little help from Bynum or the bench as the team was just Kobe/Pau/Lamar/Fish and one of Sasha/Trevor/Ron really and truly who were counted on for those runs in every round. I also just got to admire Hakeem repeating how he did more so. Tim is definetly top 10 and the best paper PF ever (he's a damn C IMO).

KnicksorBust
05-14-2012, 06:02 AM
What if Duncan did the same?

Duncan would move up to #5.

basketfan4life
05-14-2012, 09:47 AM
What if Duncan did the same?

well, considering Kobe will not have HCA from now on and Duncan will have it all the way, it'd be more impressing on Kobe's side. Don't you think?

natelpete
05-14-2012, 10:11 AM
Now we are counting top five finishes?? Anything to keep Kobe relevant, I guess.

KnicksorBust
05-14-2012, 10:14 AM
Now we are counting top five finishes?? Anything to keep Kobe relevant, I guess.

I don't even see how people can hate on this thread. He was one of the 5 best players in the world for basically a decade straight. How is that not impressive?

Algmuskrats
05-14-2012, 11:01 AM
One of the GOAT's.

blahblahyoutoo
05-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Good to see that Chris Paul came in 3rd. I assumed the media would have given more votes to Parker than Paul.

parker deserves it more than cp3.

Sactown
05-14-2012, 03:50 PM
The longevity of his prime is insane... His work ethic is absolutely fantastic, and he's the most polished offensive player in the game, right next to Tim Duncan..

blahblahyoutoo
05-14-2012, 03:53 PM
it's not that you weren't a fan. it's that you weren't adamant enough to join a forum until your team was the favorite to win the title. maybe you just didn't know about psd until then. and that's totally cool, its not even think its a big deal. so what?

you can't bash me for that though. i join the forum the month before Gasol was traded to the Lakers :D .

that word, it does not mean what you think it does.