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GSWFanInLA
05-12-2012, 12:44 PM
what is happening to the league?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1wps_vDebs&feature=player_embedded

this is all one game

NetsPaint
05-12-2012, 12:52 PM
LOL Wow.

tcav701
05-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Embarrassing.

Worse than European soccer.

~Iggy~
05-12-2012, 01:05 PM
The best one is the one when Paul flops on the referee.

sep11ie
05-12-2012, 01:06 PM
Wow, another flopping thread.

Davidgta1
05-12-2012, 01:07 PM
An that's why I hate the clippers.

Davidgta1
05-12-2012, 01:09 PM
The best one is the one when Paul flops on the referee.

I wonder how stupid Paul felt after he realized he floped on the ref?

phantasyyy
05-12-2012, 01:20 PM
Wow, another flopping thread.

It just goes to show you how big of a problem flopping is becoming. And for those of you who say its just a cpl plays here and there that will not effect the outcome of the game too much, clearly aren't watching these flops live when even if the team your rooting for flops you become just utterly disgusted by what these players are starting to do.

Well thats just how I feel anyway:facepalm:

I Rock Shaqs
05-12-2012, 01:32 PM
I Hate Chris Paul

Davidgta1
05-12-2012, 01:35 PM
It just goes to show you how big of a problem flopping is becoming. And for those of you who say its just a cpl plays here and there that will not effect the outcome of the game too much, clearly aren't watching these flops live when even if the team your rooting for flops you become just utterly disgusted by what these players are starting to do.

Well thats just how I feel anyway:facepalm:

I feel the same way

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 01:56 PM
Flopping is bad but what are you going to do about it? Give solutions, stop b^&*hing about it. Also saying the refs should stop flopping is a horrible solution. They can't see contact every where on the court at all times. The only way is to review it. That can't happen until after the game unless you want a b-ball game to last 5 hours and be under constant review for every foul.

Again, flopping is bad but it hasn't decided a playoffs series or championship yet. It happens maybe 1-2 times per game on average and has always been apart of the game. Stop b%^&hing and make up some realistic solutions instead of how the game today is horrible and how you wish it was the 80's or 90's (when most of you dumb@$$ kids didn't watch bball back then anyways and just watched youtube highlights). I wish it was the 80's and 90's also so I could live in a time period where there was good television, good music, and soft core porn was at its best. But what are you going to do? Jesus, you guys are just complainers.

Corey
05-12-2012, 01:59 PM
Bring back hand checking

ManRam
05-12-2012, 02:03 PM
What is this "flopping" thing? I have never heard of it on PSD.

Blitzbolt
05-12-2012, 02:04 PM
Cp3 flopping on the ref says it all.

The MLS(major league soccer)fines and suspends Players 2 games for flopps.Maybe the NBA should look at that as an example.

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 02:04 PM
I agree hand checking fouls has altered the game (maybe even ruined the game) far more than flopping has. Except people here don't complain about that because they didn't really watch games back in the 90's and 80's and can't tell the difference between todays game and games of the past. But, how can anyone who hasn't watched games in the 80's and 90's complain about a brand of basketball they never experienced anyways? This is getting stupid.

Blitzbolt
05-12-2012, 02:12 PM
What angers me the most is that after games CP3 says stuff like ''I'm gonna punch Marc Gasol out''<<<real quote after game 2.

He Flopps and then acts tough after the game and picks on Marc Gasol who won't hit him because of his calm personality.

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 02:17 PM
Here's a list of players from the past notorious for flopping:

Reggie Miller
John Stockton
Vlade Divac
Bill Laimbeer
Dennis Rodman
Danny Ainge

Again, its always been around in the NBA. Its deploarable and I hate it just like many of you guys do, but its as american as apple pie in the NBA. Stop acting like you're 15 years old and that its brand new to the game. Oh wait, nevermind.

CostanzaNumba0
05-12-2012, 02:18 PM
the heat are just as blatant , these should be technicals

PAOboston
05-12-2012, 02:26 PM
i'm not sure why people are so concerned/shocked about flopping now. it's ALWAYS been part of game. i just think today it's more apparent b/c the refs are so ticky tack and they call everything. before if you flopped, there was a better chance that nothing was called b/c the refs would let them play on.

RenegadeRiot36
05-12-2012, 02:27 PM
I just lost a lot of respect for CP3 from this video

smiddy012
05-12-2012, 03:12 PM
Here's a list of players from the past notorious for flopping:

Reggie Miller
John Stockton
Vlade Divac
Bill Laimbeer
Dennis Rodman
Danny Ainge

Again, its always been around in the NBA. Its deploarable and I hate it just like many of you guys do, but its as american as apple pie in the NBA. Stop acting like you're 15 years old and that its brand new to the game. Oh wait, nevermind.

90s flopping isn't even comparable to today's, get off your high horse. Most of those might exaggerate an impact but they didn't go out of their way to flop. Rodman was one of the most physical players in the games history and he would frustrate opponents into making dumb fouls, and then he would sell it. It's not like you could tap the guy and he'd get "knocked out" like Lebron or Bosh or CP3. Anybody who thinks today's flopping is comparable to the 90s is ********. Most of those guys flopped because of how physical the game was, not wanting to get taken advantage of by opponents. Now flopping is a way to take advantage of opponents.

smiddy012
05-12-2012, 03:22 PM
what is happening to the league?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1wps_vDebs&feature=player_embedded

this is all one game

Wow, just wow... Griffin & Paul are just pathetic.

mvb815
05-12-2012, 03:24 PM
chris paul is really hurting his legacy

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 03:25 PM
This is why I hate the discussion so much. Not only are people hypocritial and only criticize certain players while ignoring others who are just as bad simply because they aren't stars.... but they also turn anything and everything into a flop and ignore the game itself. Here they are:

(1) Blake Griffin - legitimate foul. Flop or not, he was fouled in the air.
(2) Chris Paul - We get a terrible angle. He could have come down on the defender.
(3) Chris Paul - legitimate moving screen set directly into Paul's center of gravity by the screener's hip and knee. (a) It wasn't a flop. (b) Even if it were, that's a foul, who cares?
(4) Chris Paul - legitimate foul. The defender was running straight into Paul at a high speed. Doesn't look like a flop. Again, even if it were, who cares? It's a foul.
(5) Chris Paul - Looks like Paul ran into the defender and lost balance. Maybe a flop, maybe not. Not a foul regardless, that's on Paul.
(6) Clippers player - not a flop. Legitimate collision, should be defensive foul on the Clipper player, video doesn't tell us what got called.
(7) Clippers player - Flop.
(8) Chris Paul - hard to tell, probably a flop.
(9) Blake Griffin - Can't tell, terrible camera angle. 50/50, looks like Zebo completely elbowed him. But you cannot tell.
(10) Blake Griffin - legitimate elbow by Gasol. Flop/sell job by Griffin. Still a legitimate elbow. Again, who cares if he flops on it? It was a foul.
(11) Blake Griffin - Gross flop. Worst of the game. Gross.
(12) Chris Paul - flops on ref. Really? :facepalm:
(13) Chris Paul - flop.
(14) Blake Griffin - Looks like he just lost his balance.
(15) Clippers Player - Not even close to a flop. He dove for a ball. :confused:

I count 5 out of 15. 5 flops in a game, and you're going to tell me that's unusually high? I don't buy it, and I watch a lot of basketball. I'd say 3-5 flops a game by each team is pretty usual, and 5 a game is hardly surprising. 1 each quarter basically, that sounds about right.

The idea that this is somehow egregious or worse than other teams simply doesn't pass the eye test.

As I've said before, the desire to hate on certain players and certain teams drives people to dishonesty about the reality of the situation. It's irritating, and it needs to stop. It is worse than the flopping itself.

kylem4711
05-12-2012, 03:44 PM
An that's why I hate the clippers.

so you prefer rapists rather than floppers?? ha

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 03:48 PM
90s flopping isn't even comparable to today's, get off your high horse. Most of those might exaggerate an impact but they didn't go out of their way to flop. Rodman was one of the most physical players in the games history and he would frustrate opponents into making dumb fouls, and then he would sell it. It's not like you could tap the guy and he'd get "knocked out" like Lebron or Bosh or CP3. Anybody who thinks today's flopping is comparable to the 90s is ********. Most of those guys flopped because of how physical the game was, not wanting to get taken advantage of by opponents. Now flopping is a way to take advantage of opponents.


WOW!! You sir are a moron. People didn't flop in the 90's to take advantage of the other players? Are you serious? That was the most awful use of logic I have ever read. I guess they were just really falling down then? You also have never seen Rodman play. Dude flopped all the time to get into the other players heads. Did it to Alonzo Mourning and Karl Malone just to name a few. Obviously, you've never watched basketball in the 90's and have no clue what you are talking about. Please, stop. You're embarrassing yourself. I sit on a high horse surrounded by idiots with faulty logic.

dalton749
05-12-2012, 03:49 PM
chris paul...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ocPK6CJn0

FlashMacker
05-12-2012, 03:56 PM
As much as I hate flopping that reggie evans flop was actually pretty funny.

LongIslandIcedZ
05-12-2012, 03:59 PM
A Clippers/Heat Finals could be extremely entertaining.

fishedz
05-12-2012, 04:04 PM
WOW!! You sir are a moron. People didn't flop in the 90's to take advantage of the other players? Are you serious? That was the most awful use of logic I have ever read. I guess they were just really falling down then? You also have never seen Rodman play. Dude flopped all the time to get into the other players heads. Did it to Alonzo Mourning and Karl Malone just to name a few. Obviously, you've never watched basketball in the 90's and have no clue what you are talking about. Please, stop. You're embarrassing yourself. I sit on a high horse surrounded by idiots with faulty logic. It doesn't compare... Back then, you had a player or two that would flop...with contact. Now you have entire teams flopping with no contact whatsoever and it is influencing games. It is ridiculous, and most of the veteran players and announcers all realize it, all agree it is affecting the game, and all palyed during the timeframe you speak of or before that.

So....you versus them? Losing...

Fact is...the guys that flopped in the 90's weren't *******. The Heat and the Clippers are an embarassment to the game and the reason why I do not watch basketball anymore. It's a joke, the NBA is a joke, the refs are a joke, and the game has tarnished its legitmacy. If you can't see that, you are blind. 80's/90's/00's>>>>10's....

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 04:28 PM
It doesn't compare... Back then, you had a player or two that would flop...with contact. Now you have entire teams flopping with no contact whatsoever and it is influencing games. It is ridiculous, and most of the veteran players and announcers all realize it, all agree it is affecting the game, and all palyed during the timeframe you speak of or before that.

So....you versus them? Losing...

Fact is...the guys that flopped in the 90's weren't *******. The Heat and the Clippers are an embarassment to the game and the reason why I do not watch basketball anymore. It's a joke, the NBA is a joke, the refs are a joke, and the game has tarnished its legitmacy. If you can't see that, you are blind. 80's/90's/00's>>>>10's....

Dude, what are you talking about? Whole teams flopping? Stop, you are exaggerating on a grandiose scale because you obviously don't like those teams. I listed in a previous post that this happens a lot and rattled off a few names from the past that flopped among others. Flopping is not new to the sport!! Stop trying to convince yourself otherwise. Name a specific playoffs series where flopping influenced the winner. Oh yeah, you can't. The heat whooped the knicks 4-1. I guess they flopped their way to a series victory. Last year, they flopped themselves to the finals but got outflopped by Dirk and crew, right? The clippers flopping obviously has them at a huge advantage against Memphis right? I guess they couldn't outflop Memphis in game 6 and forced a decisive game 7 flop off huh?

I'd rather hear people complain of today's game allowing hand checking fouls or inconsistent foul calls by refs - not flopping. Stop making excuses. Its been in the sport for years. You are all obviously new to the game of NBA basketball. If you don't like it you can go watch hockey or something.

Also, for the millioneth time, all you losers who complain about flopping haven't offered any solutions. I think I read someone say give out technicals. Again, I'll make myself clear - you can't review every single foul it will slow the game down immensely. I'm not watching a 5 hour NBA game, neither does anyone else. Reviews can only be done after the game. Guess what? There is a rule against flopping since 2008 but it really hasnt been implemented. Why? because Stern is not going to suspend Lebron, CP3 or Blake in the playoffs for freaking flopping. He stands to lose money that way. Fining them makes no difference because they're rich as hell. Whats the solution complainers of a problem that has always existed? I'm waiting. If you have none, then stfu.

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 04:31 PM
It doesn't compare... Back then, you had a player or two that would flop...with contact. Now you have entire teams flopping with no contact whatsoever and it is influencing games. It is ridiculous, and most of the veteran players and announcers all realize it, all agree it is affecting the game, and all palyed during the timeframe you speak of or before that.

So....you versus them? Losing...

Fact is...the guys that flopped in the 90's weren't *******. The Heat and the Clippers are an embarassment to the game and the reason why I do not watch basketball anymore. It's a joke, the NBA is a joke, the refs are a joke, and the game has tarnished its legitmacy. If you can't see that, you are blind. 80's/90's/00's>>>>10's....


Also, you say you don't watch basketball anymore because its tarnished yet you know enough about the clippers and heat this postseason to comment? really? stfu, please. I'm destroying your half-@$$ use of logic and arguments. Who's next?

Max.This
05-12-2012, 04:42 PM
pointless, because nothing will be done about it. Yeah the HEAT and CLippers flop, but its not like people are blind and can't see it. They know it makes them look bad, like the Miami game 1 in the post season. After how much **** they took for flopping, I didn't see them flop once after game 1. heat got outflopped by Dirk and crew? I agree with a lot you say but seriously the Mavs just hit more key shots. Its not like every play the mavs fell on their *** and they got to the line. Dirk hit big shots and Lebron didn't. Thats just how it went

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 04:46 PM
pointless, because nothing will be done about it. Yeah the HEAT and CLippers flop, but its not like people are blind and can't see it. They know it makes them look bad, like the Miami game 1 in the post season. After how much **** they took for flopping, I didn't see them flop once after game 1. heat got outflopped by Dirk and crew? I agree with a lot you say but seriously the Mavs just hit more key shots. Its not like every play the mavs fell on their *** and they got to the line. Dirk hit big shots and Lebron didn't. Thats just how it went

Oh I guess you didn't get my sarcasm. I in no way believe that. The heat got beat fair and square. I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous it is to point out how some teams are floppers but others aren't.

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 04:48 PM
Reggie Miller made a career out of flopping on shot attempts. Made it an art. He is still considered one of the greatest shooters of all time. Players today emulate players of the past. Notice how most shooters nowadays try out this same tactic? Result? Players flopping constantly after shot attempts. Thank Reggie Miller for that, don't blame the players today for looking back and trying to act like the greatest shooter of all time.

phantasyyy
05-12-2012, 04:50 PM
To SwatTeam

Sure i agree its been in the game for years, but its only recently become a huge issue due to the fact that its not so subtle any more...dudes just be flailing and dropping like a sack a potatoes on any possession they can. Its disgusting lol, obviously we understand that its a "smart bball play" but the fact that its both reoccurring and so blatantly obvious is what we fans have a problem with. We just want to see some plain old fashion non dirty basketball is that too much to ask for?

CEasFiRe
05-12-2012, 04:53 PM
and I thought the Heat and celtics were bad, Paul and Griffin look really pathetic, flopping on a rest is just shameful

SwatTeam
05-12-2012, 04:55 PM
To SwatTeam

Sure i agree its been in the game for years, but its only recently become a huge issue due to the fact that its not so subtle any more...dudes just be flailing and dropping like a sack a potatoes on any possession they can. Its disgusting lol, obviously we understand that its a "smart bball play" but the fact that its both reoccurring and so blatantly obvious is what we fans have a problem with. We just want to see some plain old fashion non dirty basketball is that too much to ask for?

Hey I understand that logic. I hate flopping also, make no mistake. I want to see great basketball but to be honest I have no solution to this ages old problem. It bothers me but not to the degree where I think its the sole reason for ruining the game. The game was ruined when Jordan retired and we got a bunch of copy-cat players trying to be like mike instead of Magic and Bird. Flopping didn't ruin the version of basketball you see today. Anyways, I've talked too much. I'm out.

chrism516
05-12-2012, 04:58 PM
Memphis is a dirty team....jeepers, they are going to seriously hurt someone.

MagicHero3
05-12-2012, 04:58 PM
blake griffin has become the most loved to the most hated player in the NBA so quickly strictly due to flopping. so sad, he's soft and now he will always have the "soft sellout" rep

phantasyyy
05-12-2012, 05:00 PM
Hey I understand that logic. I hate flopping also, make no mistake. I want to see great basketball but to be honest I have no solution to this ages old problem. It bothers me but not to the degree where I think its the sole reason for ruining the game. The game was ruined when Jordan retired and we got a bunch of copy-cat players trying to be like mike instead of Magic and Bird. Flopping didn't ruin the version of basketball you see today. Anyways, I've talked too much. I'm out.

it may not be directly ruining the games outcome but it is ruining the fact that watching the game has become untolerable

phantasyyy
05-12-2012, 05:01 PM
Memphis is a dirty team....jeepers, they are going to seriously hurt someone.

dirty how? and lmao i'd want to hurt the clippers too if they were flopping all over the court against my team

Blitzbolt
05-12-2012, 05:06 PM
Memphis is a dirty team....jeepers, they are going to seriously hurt someone.

If physical =Dirty then yes.

D-Leethal
05-12-2012, 05:11 PM
Its clear that this is a big part of certain teams gameplan to the point where they probably work it into their practices. The art of drawing fouls has been manipulated to a point the league has got to do something about it. Its ruining games and embarrassing to watch.

D-Leethal
05-12-2012, 05:47 PM
WOW!! You sir are a moron. People didn't flop in the 90's to take advantage of the other players? Are you serious? That was the most awful use of logic I have ever read. I guess they were just really falling down then? You also have never seen Rodman play. Dude flopped all the time to get into the other players heads. Did it to Alonzo Mourning and Karl Malone just to name a few. Obviously, you've never watched basketball in the 90's and have no clue what you are talking about. Please, stop. You're embarrassing yourself. I sit on a high horse surrounded by idiots with faulty logic.

Individual players have been flopping but those guys didn't do it to the extent its done today. Its clear that teams are working it into their gameplans. We have entire teams flopping every chance they get throughout the game.

Its not 1 guy on the team who's strategically getting fouls against superstars on the other team like Rodman would do against Malone, or Reggie getting himself a 4 point play. Its LeBron James, the 260 pound MVP, being love tapped or barely nicked on defense by any dude half his size on the other team scrub or superstar, or not being touched at all, diving on the floor out of bounds and twirling his arms around like a ballerina to get him 2 FT's. And doing that every chance he gets throughout the game.

That didn't exist in the 90s. The stars didn't do that. Pesky defenders like Rodman and Lambeer who specialized in driving the opposition crazy would, and they would put the superstars on the other team on the bench. We now have MVP's flopping on scrubs for an extra 2 FT's or like LeBron says 'We know when we shoot FT's were a better team, it lets us set up our half court defense'. Its clear they practice this **** and study film. The entire team follows suit. They see how embarassing it is but do it to get an easy 2 FT's. The MVP really needs to do that?

You could apply everything I said to the Clips, they are just as bad as the Heat. But the MVP doing it is a disgrace.

effen5
05-12-2012, 05:53 PM
Memphis is a dirty team....jeepers, they are going to seriously hurt someone.

:laugh:

Oh man Chris Paul, man up and play the ****in game you ***** and BG your just as bad....flop flop flop

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 05:57 PM
Its clear that this is a big part of certain teams gameplan to the point where they probably work it into their practices. The art of drawing fouls has been manipulated to a point the league has got to do something about it. Its ruining games and embarrassing to watch.

I've already refuted you on this once. You ignored it. Are you really going to parrot the same stupid line again, even though you've already been taken to task on it once? Quit. Just give up. Stop talking about this topic. You embarrass yourself.

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 05:59 PM
Individual players have been flopping but those guys didn't do it to the extent its done today. Its clear that teams are working it into their gameplans. We have entire teams flopping every chance they get throughout the game.

Its not 1 guy on the team who's strategically getting fouls against superstars on the other team like Rodman would do against Malone, or Reggie getting himself a 4 point play. Its LeBron James, the 260 pound MVP, being love tapped or barely nicked on defense by any dude half his size on the other team scrub or superstar, or not being touched at all, diving on the floor out of bounds and twirling his arms around like a ballerina to get him 2 FT's. And doing that every chance he gets throughout the game.

That didn't exist in the 90s. The stars didn't do that. Pesky defenders like Rodman and Lambeer who specialized in driving the opposition crazy would, and they would put the superstars on the other team on the bench. We now have MVP's flopping on scrubs for an extra 2 FT's or like LeBron says 'We know when we shoot FT's were a better team, it lets us set up our half court defense'. Its clear they practice this **** and study film. The entire team follows suit. They see how embarassing it is but do it to get an easy 2 FT's. The MVP really needs to do that?

You could apply everything I said to the Clips, they are just as bad as the Heat. But the MVP doing it is a disgrace.

God, you are so butthurt over LeBron rejecting NY. :( Pobresito.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-12-2012, 06:04 PM
Don't worry, Grizz will oust them out tomorrow in Memphis.

lakersfan01
05-12-2012, 06:16 PM
The LA Clippers are the biggest floppers in the entire league and Miami Heat are 2nd.

Blake Griffin :laugh:

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 06:19 PM
The LA Clippers are the biggest floppers in the entire league and Miami Heat are 2nd.

Blake Griffin :laugh:

:facepalm: Can you offer some empirical evidence to back up this claim? It would require that someone knows every flop in the NBA over a given period of time, be it this year, or the last two years, etc, and has compiled the data, showing which team flops more than other teams.

If you cannot do this, and you cannot provide this evidence, you're just being ignorant and whining, throwing out conjecture based upon your emotions of disdain for those teams/players.

Come back with something real if you can. If not... just stop. It is embarrassing.

smiddy012
05-12-2012, 06:39 PM
Individual players have been flopping but those guys didn't do it to the extent its done today. Its clear that teams are working it into their gameplans. We have entire teams flopping every chance they get throughout the game.

Its not 1 guy on the team who's strategically getting fouls against superstars on the other team like Rodman would do against Malone, or Reggie getting himself a 4 point play. Its LeBron James, the 260 pound MVP, being love tapped or barely nicked on defense by any dude half his size on the other team scrub or superstar, or not being touched at all, diving on the floor out of bounds and twirling his arms around like a ballerina to get him 2 FT's. And doing that every chance he gets throughout the game.

That didn't exist in the 90s. The stars didn't do that. Pesky defenders like Rodman and Lambeer who specialized in driving the opposition crazy would, and they would put the superstars on the other team on the bench. We now have MVP's flopping on scrubs for an extra 2 FT's or like LeBron says 'We know when we shoot FT's were a better team, it lets us set up our half court defense'. Its clear they practice this **** and study film. The entire team follows suit. They see how embarassing it is but do it to get an easy 2 FT's. The MVP really needs to do that?

You could apply everything I said to the Clips, they are just as bad as the Heat. But the MVP doing it is a disgrace.

Amen.

The sheer quantity of floppers compared to the 90s is ridiculous. Plus it was a different monster back then used by different type players. If you can seriously consider today's game not much worse than the 90s flopping wise you're lying to yourself.

smiddy012
05-12-2012, 06:42 PM
:facepalm: Can you offer some empirical evidence to back up this claim? It would require that someone knows every flop in the NBA over a given period of time, be it this year, or the last two years, etc, and has compiled the data, showing which team flops more than other teams.

If you cannot do this, and you cannot provide this evidence, you're just being ignorant and whining, throwing out conjecture based upon your emotions of disdain for those teams/players.

Come back with something real if you can. If not... just stop. It is embarrassing.

It's not that hard for anyone who's consistently watched basketball over the decades. It really... really isn't.

Do yourself a favor and watch any playoff series during the 90s.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-12-2012, 06:42 PM
:facepalm: Can you offer some empirical evidence to back up this claim? It would require that someone knows every flop in the NBA over a given period of time, be it this year, or the last two years, etc, and has compiled the data, showing which team flops more than other teams.

If you cannot do this, and you cannot provide this evidence, you're just being ignorant and whining, throwing out conjecture based upon your emotions of disdain for those teams/players.

Come back with something real if you can. If not... just stop. It is embarrassing.

Didn't JVG say earlier this yr on a nationally televised game on ABC when the Heat were playing that D.Rose, LeBron and Wade are the 3 best at the "bobbing the head back", meaning when ever they drive to the basket, they get minimal body contact against the defender near the rim, and bob their head backward and scream like they got shot to get the call.

#flopping

smiddy012
05-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Didn't JVG say earlier this yr on a nationally televised game on ABC when the Heat were playing that D.Rose, LeBron and Wade are the 3 best at the "bobbing the head back", meaning when ever they drive to the basket, they get minimal body contact against the defender near the rim, and bob their head backward and scream like they got shot to get the call.

#flopping

No, he did not cite Rose. Rose does not flop. He may give a ref some lip but he refuses to flop.

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 07:02 PM
It's not that hard for anyone who's consistently watched basketball over the decades. It really... really isn't.

Do yourself a favor and watch any playoff series during the 90s.

Neither my post nor the post I was responding to had anything to do with the 90s.

smiddy012
05-12-2012, 07:04 PM
Neither my post nor the post I was responding to had anything to do with the 90s.

Fair enough. The Heat and Clippers are definitely in a league of their own when it comes to flopping though. There's plenty of playoff footage.

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 07:05 PM
:rolleyes:
Didn't JVG say earlier this yr on a nationally televised game on ABC when the Heat were playing that D.Rose, LeBron and Wade are the 3 best at the "bobbing the head back", meaning when ever they drive to the basket, they get minimal body contact against the defender near the rim, and bob their head backward and scream like they got shot to get the call.

#flopping

Two points:

(1) JVG having an opinion on an issue means nothing. It does not address the empirical nature of the question. This is, after all, an empirical issue. This can be quantified, measured, and compared. So, honestly, I don't care what JVG has to say, it means nothing.

(2) Saying individuals are "the best" at something does not in any way suggest - and certainly doesn't prove - that they do it "the most."

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 07:09 PM
Fair enough. The Heat and Clippers are definitely in a league of their own when it comes to flopping though. There's plenty of playoff footage.

You're actually proving my point. There is plenty of footage. Therefore, this is easily quantifiable and discussed empirically. If you are unwilling to do that, you are not qualified to say whether one team does it more or not. So, again, go do that, or just stop. Also, what is the question being addressed?

(a) Do the Heat and Clippers flop more than anyone else?
(b) Do the Heat and Clippers flop more than anyone else in the playoffs?
(c) Have the Heat and Clippers flopped more than anyone else in the 2012 playoffs?

All 3 of those are very different questions. The general statements/feelings of the PSD whiny little children is (a). Therefore, your assertion that "[t]here's plenty of playoff footage" is absolutely meaningless.

Come on guys, try to keep up. This is too easy right now. Try using logic, facts, etc. It isn't too hard. I believe you can do it. At the very least, start over again, decide what your line of argument is, and develop a consistent approach to making that argument. Until you do that, you'll continue to be easily refuted as you have been so far.

Mr Costanza
05-12-2012, 07:16 PM
Most of these "flops" we're legitimate fouls. The fact that someone took time out of their day to make this video is the real tragedy.

mzgrizz
05-12-2012, 07:29 PM
Please.......that the OP made the video, and is not known as a regular Grizz fan; I applaud him for assembling this montage of a freak show. I agree that CP3 is tarnishing his image with his conversion to acting since he moved to Hollywood. I never saw him flail around like that when he played us as a Hornet. He whined and tried to chat up the refs then,too, but he was able to stand on his 2 feet.
Blake Griffin has transformed into a flopper extraordinaire. Can't believe he doesn't have more pride than that. Darn near really hurt himself when he and Marc got tangled under the basket in game 5 when he started flopping around. If you are going to flop, have the sense to do it in open court and not under the basket where you can hit the goal post!
I hope the Grizz come out strong tomorrow and deliver a quick knockout punch and move on. Sick of watching the refs "fall" for this crap.

Mr Costanza
05-12-2012, 07:29 PM
You're actually proving my point. There is plenty of footage. Therefore, this is easily quantifiable and discussed empirically. If you are unwilling to do that, you are not qualified to say whether one team does it more or not. So, again, go do that, or just stop. Also, what is the question being addressed?

(a) Do the Heat and Clippers flop more than anyone else?
(b) Do the Heat and Clippers flop more than anyone else in the playoffs?
(c) Have the Heat and Clippers flopped more than anyone else in the 2012 playoffs?

All 3 of those are very different questions. The general statements/feelings of the PSD whiny little children is (a). Therefore, your assertion that "[t]here's plenty of playoff footage" is absolutely meaningless.

Come on guys, try to keep up. This is too easy right now. Try using logic, facts, etc. It isn't too hard. I believe you can do it. At the very least, start over again, decide what your line of argument is, and develop a consistent approach to making that argument. Until you do that, you'll continue to be easily refuted as you have been so far.

You're right. No one should have an opinion on any subject involving anything whatsoever without a complete volume of meticulous research leaving no stone unturned. Shame on everyone here - excluding you of course - for having an opinion that you cannot mathematically back up.

Seriously guys, you're making this way too easy for him.

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 07:51 PM
You're right. No one should have an opinion on any subject involving anything whatsoever without a complete volume of meticulous research leaving no stone unturned. Shame on everyone here - excluding you of course - for having an opinion that you cannot mathematically back up.

Seriously guys, you're making this way too easy for him.

I find this response from you puzzling, but I'll elaborate. First of all, we fundamentally agree on this thread:


Most of these "flops" we're legitimate fouls. The fact that someone took time out of their day to make this video is the real tragedy.

Secondly, your choice as this to be the point on which you'd come at me is a strange one and, I would suggest, poorly chosen.

You see, you said:


No one should have an opinion on any subject involving anything whatsoever without a complete volume of meticulous research leaving no stone unturned.

However, that isn't what I said, nor does it reflect the position with which I am in disagreement. You see, the people I argued with said nothing about "opinions" at all.



Fair enough. The Heat and Clippers are definitely in a league of their own when it comes to flopping though. There's plenty of playoff footage.


Its clear that this is a big part of certain teams gameplan to the point where they probably work it into their practices. The art of drawing fouls has been manipulated to a point the league has got to do something about it. Its ruining games and embarrassing to watch.

You see, these are not opinions. These are stated as facts, using phrases like "clear" and "definite", which propose that this is obviously true beyond any reasonable doubt. However, with something empirical, this is simply factually inaccurate. It cannot be "true beyond any reasonable doubt" without being demonstrated as such. Simply asserting doesn't qualify.


Seriously guys, you're making this way too easy for him.

Nothing I said previously, until this current quoting of "clear" and "definite" have anything to do with a thesaurus. :eyebrow:

D-Leethal
05-12-2012, 07:59 PM
I've already refuted you on this once. You ignored it. Are you really going to parrot the same stupid line again, even though you've already been taken to task on it once? Quit. Just give up. Stop talking about this topic. You embarrass yourself.

There are like 5 different flopping threads on this forum. I don't even remember which thread I posted that in. If you care to repost it here I'd love to give you an answer. About 2% of my posts come from the NBA forum so I don't always come back to check who responds to my posts.

But regarding your follow up post, do you honestly need someone to mathematically break it down for you that the Heat and Clips lead the charge with flopping? Its blatantly obvious to anyone who watches the games.

And do you think LeBron the 260 pound MVP should really be flopping at little to no contact flailing his arms around like he does? Say I'm butthurt but if he was still in Cleveland I'd say the same damn thing. Its not only 'butthurt' Knicks fans saying it, its the entire league. I know your a Heat fan and I don't expect you to bash your own players, but to say its not a joke and embarassment is a joke in itself.

Mr Costanza
05-12-2012, 08:01 PM
I find this response from you puzzling, but I'll elaborate. First of all, we fundamentally agree on this thread:



Secondly, your choice as this to be the point on which you'd come at me is a strange one and, I would suggest, poorly chosen.

You see, you said:



However, that isn't what I said, nor does it reflect the position with which I am in disagreement. You see, the people I argued with said nothing about "opinions" at all.






You see, these are not opinions. These are stated as facts, using phrases like "clear" and "definite", which propose that this is obviously true beyond any reasonable doubt. However, with something empirical, this is simply factually inaccurate. It cannot be "true beyond any reasonable doubt" without being demonstrated as such. Simply asserting doesn't qualify.



Nothing I said previously, until this current quoting of "clear" and "definite" have anything to do with a thesaurus. :eyebrow:

On the issue of the flopping we are in the same page. I just don't see why you need to belittle all their posts.

ryang
05-12-2012, 08:04 PM
we will be fopping all the way 2 the finals.. every foul we get in our favor is a flop.. now go convince the refs they have no clue how to do there job.. oh i forgot stern wants us 2 win.. i guess you guys should watch another sport..

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 08:07 PM
On the issue of the flopping we are in the same page. I just don't see why you need to belittle all their posts.

I'm not belittling. I'm correcting them and I'm doing so in a way which seriously displays the laziness and ignorant nature of those posts. The worst part of the NBA Forum is the intense level of haters who spout of whatever rhetoric they can find to hate on whatever player or whatever team they want to hate. If that's how they want to post, then I'll show them exactly how bad it is. If they think there is something to what they have to say, they can stand up and defend themselves using even a little bit of logic or some facts.

D-Leethal
05-12-2012, 08:08 PM
I find this response from you puzzling, but I'll elaborate. First of all, we fundamentally agree on this thread:



Secondly, your choice as this to be the point on which you'd come at me is a strange one and, I would suggest, poorly chosen.

You see, you said:



However, that isn't what I said, nor does it reflect the position with which I am in disagreement. You see, the people I argued with said nothing about "opinions" at all.






You see, these are not opinions. These are stated as facts, using phrases like "clear" and "definite", which propose that this is obviously true beyond any reasonable doubt. However, with something empirical, this is simply factually inaccurate. It cannot be "true beyond any reasonable doubt" without being demonstrated as such. Simply asserting doesn't qualify.



Nothing I said previously, until this current quoting of "clear" and "definite" have anything to do with a thesaurus. :eyebrow:

When I say 'its clear' I don't have statistics to back it up because no such things exist. So I use the fact that they have multiple guys flop when given the opportunities all game every game. Its not a strategic thing to get another guy in foul trouble. Its not a matchup thing. Its a free for all to get as many FT opportunities as possible. It takes the art of drawing fouls to a whole new level. At that point it becomes unwatchable.

Look at the Bosh flop on Boozer. You don't flop like that unless its a premeditated gameplan. LeBron and Wade flying all over the floor when the get touched on their drives. The role players flop when they get the opporunity but quite frankly they rarely get the opportunity because they don't play in the paint or in traffic, they let the big 3 do that and feast off open kick outs.

Clippers you have the CP3 and Blake both doing the same whiplash neck cranks. Same exact flop they utilize it all the time. Its pretty clear its part of the game plan. Reggie Evans flops all over the place.

You really think these guys on the same teams do the same flops and all take part every game and never speak of it and acknowledge that its being used as part of their strategy? They are just flopping all over the court at every opportunity on their own will. I think its pretty clear they have a premeditated gameplan to get to the FT line at all costs, and if it means they have to flop to get their they are gonna do it. If you don't think they discuss that and gameplan for that, your just blindly sticking up for your team.

Why do you watch the games if you disregard anything that isn't backed with empirical statistical evidence? You really can't see it with your own 2 eyes? The rest of the world can.

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 08:09 PM
There are like 5 different flopping threads on this forum. I don't even remember which thread I posted that in. If you care to repost it here I'd love to give you an answer. About 2% of my posts come from the NBA forum so I don't always come back to check who responds to my posts.

But regarding your follow up post, do you honestly need someone to mathematically break it down for you that the Heat and Clips lead the charge with flopping? Its blatantly obvious to anyone who watches the games.

And do you think LeBron the 260 pound MVP should really be flopping at little to no contact flailing his arms around like he does? Say I'm butthurt but if he was still in Cleveland I'd say the same damn thing. Its not only 'butthurt' Knicks fans saying it, its the entire league. I know your a Heat fan and I don't expect you to bash your own players, but to say its not a joke and embarassment is a joke in itself.

Actually it is not blatantly obvious. Secondly, I do bash them for flopping. I've done it tons of times. I take issue with nonsensical attempts to hate on people we don't like.

topdog
05-12-2012, 08:10 PM
The thing that drives me crazy about Blake Griffin is that he wants to dunk through people, but then he wants to flop and flail when he gets touched and cry about getting fouled so much.

This is really why I hate what Stern has turned this league into though (of course with the help of consumers). In this superstar league there is not a single foul call where someone isn't chatting up the ref afterwards and complaining about any and every call even if they're blatant fouls.

ryang
05-12-2012, 08:13 PM
The thing that drives me crazy about Blake Griffin is that he wants to dunk through people, but then he wants to flop and flail when he gets touched and cry about getting fouled so much.

This is really why I hate what Stern has turned this league into though (of course with the help of consumers). In this superstar league there is not a single foul call where someone isn't chatting up the ref afterwards and complaining about any and every call even if they're blatant fouls.

yea i love the heat always have but wade and lebron complaining every single time they dont score gets 2 me.. run back play d.. the complaining has gotten outta control

chrism516
05-12-2012, 08:18 PM
dirty how? and lmao i'd want to hurt the clippers too if they were flopping all over the court against my team

It's called sarcasm my friend.

D-Leethal
05-12-2012, 08:19 PM
I'm not belittling. I'm correcting them and I'm doing so in a way which seriously displays the laziness and ignorant nature of those posts. The worst part of the NBA Forum is the intense level of haters who spout of whatever rhetoric they can find to hate on whatever player or whatever team they want to hate. If that's how they want to post, then I'll show them exactly how bad it is. If they think there is something to what they have to say, they can stand up and defend themselves using even a little bit of logic or some facts.

This is a basketball forum not a grammar or english forum. Posts are not meant to be read word for word like a contract. I guess you render the rest of my post obselete because of my choice of one word.

Next time after 'clear' I will be sure to add 'to me' to clarify this is based off my opinion and not off of your requested data that doesn't even exist.

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 08:23 PM
Why do you watch the games if you disregard anything that isn't backed with empirical statistical evidence? You really can't see it with your own 2 eyes? The rest of the world can.

This statement simply underscores the fact that you don't really understand the discussion itself.

(1) There were 990 regular season games this year. No one can see that with their own two eyes. So, you answered your own question. No, I cannot, and neither can you. If I was left up to what I could watch to determine who played the best in the regular season my opinion would be pretty meaningless. So, no, the rest of the world cannot.

(2) You ignore the media bias of the issue. The Heat and Clippers have been targets of negative attention by PSD specifically and NBA fandom in general. Of course everyone notices their offenses more than anyone else's. That's life. It doesn't mean or prove anything other than that people don't like either.

D-Leethal
05-12-2012, 08:25 PM
Actually it is not blatantly obvious. Secondly, I do bash them for flopping. I've done it tons of times. I take issue with nonsensical attempts to hate on people we don't like.

How is it not blatantly obvious? Its all over the NBA world, players tweet about it, writers write about it, analysts analyze it, and reporters report it.

And the 'nonsensical attempts to hate on people we don't like' would hold true if it was only the Heat, but the Clips were the NBA's darling team this year until the flops killed their image. Griffin was a fan favorite and CP3 was a fan favorite for NBA fans. We didn't just pick them out of the blue to bash for flopping, we do it because their next level of flopping is blatantly obvious.

Clips and Heat also get the brunt of it because they lead the charge with some of the best players in the world. All stars and superstars are the ones doing nearly all the flopping out there.

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 08:26 PM
This is a basketball forum not a grammar or english forum. Posts are not meant to be read word for word like a contract. I guess you render the rest of my post obselete because of my choice of one word.

Next time after 'clear' I will be sure to add 'to me' to clarify this is based off my opinion and not off of your requested data that doesn't even exist.

Actually it does exist. The question is whether or not it has been compiled. And yes, "clear to me" is a far cry from "clear." Without "to me" it suggests that the sentiment applies universally, and should to "you", whoever "you" is in the conversation.

Lastly, this is a forum for communication. English and grammar, most specifically, the words you use, are the standard form of communication. To suggest that this is somehow a forum where what you say shouldn't be treated as what you say, because it is what you communicated, is nonsensical at best.

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 08:29 PM
How is it not blatantly obvious? Its all over the NBA world, players tweet about it, writers write about it, analysts analyze it, and reporters report it.

And the 'nonsensical attempts to hate on people we don't like' would hold true if it was only the Heat, but the Clips were the NBA's darling team this year until the flops killed their image. Griffin was a fan favorite and CP3 was a fan favorite for NBA fans. We didn't just pick them out of the blue to bash for flopping, we do it because their next level of flopping is blatantly obvious.

Clips and Heat also get the brunt of it because they lead the charge with some of the best players in the world. All stars and superstars are the ones doing nearly all the flopping out there.

Were you living under a rock in the offseason? The Clippers were no longer a fan favorite after they got CP3 and Stern f**ked Los Angeles. They were immediately hated... a ton.

It's not blatantly obvious, not even close. It's blatantly biased, and unsubstantiated, yes.

Fnom11
05-12-2012, 08:30 PM
yea i love the heat always have but wade and lebron complaining every single time they dont score gets 2 me.. run back play d.. the complaining has gotten outta control

Lebron rarely complains about not getting calls. I mean it definitely happens but it's pretty rare.

ryang
05-12-2012, 08:30 PM
just let em cry.. they obviously dont know much about basketball if they feel the heat flop all the time.. its 2 bad there arent better teams in the eastern conference or these pointless conversations wouldnt happen..

ryang
05-12-2012, 08:32 PM
Lebron rarely complains about not getting calls. I mean it definitely happens but it's pretty rare.

come on bro.. we complain after every shot that had any form of contact.. im only sick of the complaining.. reminds me to much of the knicks and celtics.. maybe they were fouls but just run back on d.. either way im not gonna argue a hate message about my team..

ryang
05-12-2012, 08:34 PM
but wade is far wose then lebron.. wade can do no wrong and if he misses he has 2 yell at someone.. lebron not so much he just makes faces..

WadeKobe
05-12-2012, 08:34 PM
come on bro.. we complain after every shot that had any form of contact.. im only sick of the complaining.. reminds me to much of the knicks and celtics.. maybe they were fouls but just run back on d.. either way im not gonna argue a hate message about my team..

Yea, we argue all the time. Wade sometimes *****es so much that he's still on that side of the court after the other team makes a damn shot. I'm so sick of it. Any Heat fan pretending we don't complain is utterly clueless.

Fnom11
05-12-2012, 08:43 PM
I'm very confused about what just happened in the last 4-5 replies.

D-Leethal
05-12-2012, 08:44 PM
Were you living under a rock in the offseason? The Clippers were no longer a fan favorite after they got CP3 and Stern f**ked Los Angeles. They were immediately hated... a ton.

It's not blatantly obvious, not even close. It's blatantly biased, and unsubstantiated, yes.

Thats not what I recall. I recall the majority of the NBA world outside of Laker fans being happy he wasn't going back to LA. I remember majority of fans being excited he and Chauncey went to LAC because it was the new 'sexy' team out West. It wasn't the same old Lakers. A CP3 to Griffin combo was something the majority of NBA fans were looking forward to. I don't think your recalling the events accurately but I would assume you would just write off my opinion as nothing because there is no empirical data to gauge how the NBA world viewed the Clippers heading into this season.

Actually funny you state an opinion as fact with absolutely 0 evidence to back it up. Stern ****ing the Lakers doesn't = the world hating the Clippers. Laker fans maybe but not NBA fans. Might want to edit that post, this is a communication forum after all.


just let em cry.. they obviously dont know much about basketball if they feel the heat flop all the time.. its 2 bad there arent better teams in the eastern conference or these pointless conversations wouldnt happen..

I understand you guys are Heat fans and are probably fed up with all the hate your team gets, but you cannot say the Heat don't flop all the time. You can argue there is no evidence to say they flop more than your average team, although 95% of the basketball world would disagree.

But how would someone thinking the Heat flop all the time correlate to them not knowing basketball?

Fnom11
05-12-2012, 08:52 PM
I was actually under the impression the Heat don't flop that much before this thread. I think it's just when Lebron flops(which he's done maybe 4 times out of the 5 games against the NYK) they're pretty ridiculous flops and people think he does it all the time.

As for Wade, he doesn't really flop but he doesn't shut the **** up when he drives and always screams for a foul, as well as throw his hands up in the air. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a flop or not. If you don't count those as flops then Wade never flops.

Also if you think those charges the Heat rack up against opposing teams offenses are flops then I don't know what to say to you.

ryang
05-12-2012, 08:54 PM
^^ because you cant name more then 2 plays a game that we flop.. break down every game we played against the knicks.. how many u got?? and battier taking that charge cannot be 1.. amare charged did battier sell it yea but amare still charged.. that one against jr smith and lebron was a flop but those were few and far between and the refs had nothing to do with killing the knicks

ryang
05-12-2012, 08:54 PM
I was actually under the impression the Heat don't flop that much before this thread. I think it's just when Lebron flops(which he's done maybe 4 times out of the 5 games against the NYK) they're pretty ridiculous flops and people think he does it all the time.

As for Wade, he doesn't really flop but he doesn't shut the **** up when he drives and always screams for a foul, as well as throw his hands up in the air. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a flop or not. If you don't count those as flops then Wade never flops.

Also if you think those charges the Heat rack up against opposing teams offenses are flops then I don't know what to say to you.

this

smith&wesson
05-12-2012, 09:00 PM
Embarrassing.

Worse than European soccer.

Its getting there

TylerSL
05-12-2012, 10:55 PM
the only way to effectively get rid of flopping is for the refs to not call as many fouls. If refs would go back to how they called fouls in like the 80's we wouldnt have this problem. Sure you can fine players, but NFL fines defensive players for "hard hits" but that dont stop them. Hell the NFL even suspends them at times. Should the refs have to go back and look at every foul to see if the player flopped? No, thats ineffiecent, and not effective. The only way to really get rid of it is for the refs to swallow the whistle. People say, "players didnt flop in the 80's, NBA was better back then". Well they didnt call as many fouls back then either. When they started making those stupid "superstar" calls is when this started. Officials need swallow the whistle. That is the only way to fix this problem.

#Bringbackhandchecking