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Rivera
05-11-2012, 06:50 PM
ESPN bottom line; AP reporting

Report: LeBron James wins MVP



MIAMI -- A person familiar with the decision tells The Associated Press that Miami's LeBron James will be announced Saturday as the NBA's MVP, the third time he's won the award in the past four seasons.

The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the results have not been released. James is expected to be presented with the trophy Sunday by commissioner David Stern before Miami hosts Game 1 of the Eastern Conference semifinals against Indiana.

James will become the eighth player to win the award at least three times, joining Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Moses Malone.

He'll be the first to win as a member of the Heat. James' previous MVP awards in 2009 and 2010 came when he played for Cleveland.


Copyright 2012 by The Associated Press

metsbulls1025
05-11-2012, 06:51 PM
:yawn:

Bruno
05-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Congrats to LBJ.

LBJ is the only three-time MVP in league history who hasn't won a championship. this is his 9th season, clocks ticking.

kntresistheheat
05-11-2012, 06:52 PM
According to espn James wins 3rd MVP

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 06:52 PM
MIAMI -- A person familiar with the decision tells The Associated Press that Miami's LeBron James will be announced Saturday as the NBA's MVP, the third time he's won the award in the past four seasons.

The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the results have not been released. James is expected to be presented with the trophy Sunday by commissioner David Stern before Miami hosts Game 1 of the Eastern Conference semifinals against Indiana.

James will become the eighth player to win the award at least three times, joining Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Moses Malone.

He'll be the first to win as a member of the Heat. James' previous MVP awards in 2009 and 2010 came when he played for Cleveland.

SOURCE: ESPN


Congrats LeBron!

theheatles
05-11-2012, 06:52 PM
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: :cry:

^ tears of joy

SteveNash
05-11-2012, 06:53 PM
Great news, well deserved. Now can they right their wrong and retroactively give him last years MVP as well?

justinnum1
05-11-2012, 06:53 PM
:dance:

ManRam
05-11-2012, 06:54 PM
:clap:

Obviously well deserved.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 06:54 PM
riveramk2>kntresistheheat

Cal827
05-11-2012, 06:54 PM
Great news, well deserved. Now can they right their wrong and retroactively give him last years MVP as well?

:laugh:

Congrats to him. This year was truly phenomenal..
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In Before some hater goes on with "asterisk!Asterisk!! blah blah"

Rivera
05-11-2012, 06:55 PM
kinda sad Durant didnt get it honestly.....but it is well deserved lebron had an incredible year

but we all know that doesnt matter until he wins a championship....people wont realize lebrons greatness until he gets that ring!

Mell413
05-11-2012, 06:56 PM
:clap:

Well deserved

godolphins
05-11-2012, 06:58 PM
Congrats to Lebron but this won't mean a thing if he doesn't win the championship this year.

theheatles
05-11-2012, 06:58 PM
This is huge for professional sports in South Florida

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 06:58 PM
Oh btw, since this was a shortened condensed season, this award should have an asterisk******!

#Cal827system

Master Mind
05-11-2012, 06:59 PM
:clap:

kntresistheheat
05-11-2012, 06:59 PM
Woo hoo!!

Mr. Baller
05-11-2012, 06:59 PM
Congrats to LeBron well deserved.

PhillyFaninLA
05-11-2012, 07:00 PM
:yawn:

Well you Bulls fans have plenty of time to sleep while Lebron is still playing

More-Than-Most
05-11-2012, 07:01 PM
I think Durant was more Valuable to his teams success but can still live with this..Lebron is the best player in the world but how successful would the heat be without him compared to the thunder without Durant?

Gritz
05-11-2012, 07:03 PM
Travesty!

More-Than-Most
05-11-2012, 07:03 PM
I actually think Durant deserved the mvp while Lebron deserved DPOY...Lebron is so good you could give him every award and it would be ok by me and I am really just splitting hairs here

ManRam
05-11-2012, 07:04 PM
I think Durant was more Valuable to his teams success but can still live with this..Lebron is the best player in the world but how successful would the heat be without him compared to the thunder without Durant?

It would be close. Westbrook, Harden, Thabo, Ibaka, Perkins is still a damn good starting 5. Chalmers, Wade, Miller, Bosh, Haslem as well. Harden moving from bench to starter makes it closer. I do think Durant means slightly more to his team, but LeBron just had too good of a season, was more valuable than any other player, and is just the better all-around player. I don't think I would have been too upset if KD won, but I definitely feel Bron deserved it more.

theheatles
05-11-2012, 07:07 PM
Well you Bulls fans have plenty of time to sleep while Lebron is still playing

:rimshot:

Bruno
05-11-2012, 07:07 PM
According to espn James wins 3rd MVP

your sig is very well done.

DaSeba5
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
First Heat player to ever win MVP. Well deserved.

davids22
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
Well deserved. A mute point at this point in his career though. It's time to silence the haters. It's going to be hard to defend him if he can't get it done this year.

Rivera
05-11-2012, 07:11 PM
is there a player that fills the stat sheet better than lebron? EVER? (besides wilt)

Cal827
05-11-2012, 07:11 PM
Oh btw, since this was a shortened condensed season, this award should have an asterisk******!

#Cal827system

:laugh:

Switch
05-11-2012, 07:14 PM
This is huge for professional sports in South Florida

A championship would be huge for South Florida. Not an individual award.

SportsAndrew25
05-11-2012, 07:16 PM
To show you how great a year Lebron had, here are some stats:

53% shooting (highest in his career)
36% from the three point range (highest in his career)
PER of 30.7 (third highest in his career, higher than last year)

When you look at that, you can see why Lebron won.

LOOTERX9
05-11-2012, 07:17 PM
Lebron winning mvp's have become redundant right before his playoff choke jobs. it's kinda embarrassing for nba to have it's league mvp continue to shrink in playoffs

naps
05-11-2012, 07:17 PM
Congrats LeBron! Very well deserved. 3 out of 4 times. Could have been 4 out of 4 if it was not for the unprecedented hate and had Rose not been the hot story.

~Iggy~
05-11-2012, 07:17 PM
is there a player that fills the stat sheet better than lebron? EVER? (besides wilt)

Oscar Robertson.

Congrats to LeBron, well deserved! :clap:

There will be no time to waste by celebrating on Sunday though, the road continues towards what's even more important than an individual award!

Khri
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
:clap::clap::clap:

Best player in the world, well deserved.

Canterbury
05-11-2012, 07:19 PM
Congrats to Lebron.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 07:20 PM
Lebron winning mvp's have become redundant right before his playoff choke jobs. it's kinda embarrassing for nba to have it's league mvp continue to shrink in playoffs

Yeah. I'm sure the NBA feels real embarrassed...

:confused:

PatsSoxKnicks
05-11-2012, 07:22 PM
Congrats to LBJ.

LBJ is the only three-time MVP in league history who hasn't won a championship. this is his 9th season, clocks ticking.

To be fair, both Moses and Wilt won 3 MVPs before getting championships. Of course, for both of them, they won their 3rd MVP in the regular season and finished the season on top winning the championship. Will Lebron follow suit?

theheatles
05-11-2012, 07:24 PM
A championship would be huge for South Florida. Not an individual award.

Both would be huge but the MVP is more rare...Heat won a championship and the Marlins won 2 World Series in my lifetime but this will be the 1st MVP in my lifetime

Marino won his MVP in 84'

LOOTERX9
05-11-2012, 07:25 PM
Yeah. I'm sure the NBA feels real embarrassed...

:confused:

When lebron fails to win title this year yet again, who will lebron fanboys blame this time? Oh I know lebron needs dwight howard to help him win a title. there will be trade bosh for howard threads soon after the inevitable choke job

Bruno
05-11-2012, 07:26 PM
To be fair, both Moses and Wilt won 3 MVPs before getting championships. Of course, for both of them, they won their 3rd MVP in the regular season and finished the season on top winning the championship. Will Lebron follow suit?

he should. his path to the finals this year will be one of the easiest in recent memory (unless Boston finds a time-machine).

GoPacers33
05-11-2012, 07:26 PM
It don't mean a thing if u don't win the ring

PatsSoxKnicks
05-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Congrats LeBron! Very well deserved. 3 out of 4 times. Could have been 4 out of 4 if it was not for the unprecedented hate and had Rose not been the hot story.

The same thing used to happen to MJ. Lebron could win it every year and it'd be the right choice but that won't happen because voters will get sick of seeing him win it every year. MJ had a number of years where he should have won the MVP but didn't because it was redundant.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 07:27 PM
When lebron fails to win title this year yet again, who will lebron fanboys blame this time? Oh I know lebron needs dwight howard to help him win a title. there will be trade bosh for howard threads soon after the inevitable choke job

They probably won't blame it on anything but him. :shrug: I think most people get it now. I think most blamed him last year too...I certainly did. I don't fault him for never winning in Cleveland because I can't think of a single player in this league that could have done better...but him not winning in MIA isn't OK, especially two years in a row.

But again, how does him winning three MVPs embarrass the league? That's what you said, and that's what I'm questioning.

I'm no more of a "fanboy" as you are an unabashed hater too. Maybe neither of us are being objective, but at least I'm not saying ridiculous things :shrug:

JDMVP
05-11-2012, 07:29 PM
Congrats to him and all but everyone knows its time to win some

FINALS MVPS.

Im not gonna hate on this one, the only time im only gonna stop the hate on LeBron is when he FINALLY wins a RING

Avenged
05-11-2012, 07:29 PM
He will probably finish with like 6-7 overall.

At least Durant put up a good fight.

The Flash
05-11-2012, 07:29 PM
When lebron fails to win title this year yet again, who will lebron fanboys blame this time? Oh I know lebron needs dwight howard to help him win a title. there will be trade bosh for howard threads soon after the inevitable choke job

Dude, what's up with you, what's your agenda? In fact why do i even bother asking, it's enough that i glanced at your post...

naps
05-11-2012, 07:29 PM
When lebron fails to win title this year yet again, who will lebron fanboys blame this time? Oh I know lebron needs dwight howard to help him win a title. there will be trade bosh for howard threads soon after the inevitable choke job

Why doesn't PSD have a rule not to allow underaged posts here? #Kidsthesedays

da ThRONe
05-11-2012, 07:30 PM
I think Durant was more Valuable to his teams success but can still live with this..Lebron is the best player in the world but how successful would the heat be without him compared to the thunder without Durant?

If that was the only criteria Chris(turnmybackonnola) Paul would have as many MVP trophies as LeBron. Wade miss what 14-15 games this season and an argument could be made they were actually better. Clear MVP by a significant margin.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 07:31 PM
@bomani_jones
gotta say, nothing brings out the stupidity like days when good things happen to lebron.

PREACH!

Why is it so hard to just say "congrats" and move on?

bbcmillionaire
05-11-2012, 07:33 PM
Well you Bulls fans have plenty of time to sleep while Lebron is still playing

Yea Philly we'll see u guys soon courtesy of Boston

Rain City
05-11-2012, 07:34 PM
I thought it was Durant's or Kobe's to lose but Lebron clearly earned it in the last month. One of the greatest all around players as well as individual talent's the game has ever seen.

AIRMAR72
05-11-2012, 07:34 PM
Congrats to Lebron but this won't mean a thing if he doesn't win the championship this year.

yeah IT does it means hes the Most Valuable Player in the NBA(the badest) but team wins championships and the heat dont have the TEAM (bench) to it win all this year PACERS are a complete TEAM

JDMVP
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
u know wats funny

LeBron season MVP

Dwade FINALS MVP

lol

bbcmillionaire
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
Congrats to lbj, hope he gets one this year because we are coming for that title next year

Baller1
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
:(

naps
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
PREACH!

Why is it so hard to just say "congrats" and move on?

Because he's unfairly talented and becuase he too good? May be?

ManRam
05-11-2012, 07:37 PM
And come on...it still matters. If he doesn't win a ring this year, and instead wins a few in the next few years, no one will think that this one didn't matter. In the end, we'll all look upon his numbers, his accolades and the awards as a whole...and this contributes to it.

In the short term it doesn't matter...but in the long term it certainly doesn't hurt :laugh2:

da ThRONe
05-11-2012, 07:37 PM
Lol at the concept of winning LEAGUE MVP meaning absolutely nothing!

How as a fan of the sport could that thought ever enter your brain?

championships
05-11-2012, 07:39 PM
What a crock!

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 07:41 PM
PREACH!

Why is it so hard to just say "congrats" and move on?

Although what he said is true, Bomani Jones for the most part is a knucklehead and comes more of a dumbass than all the panelists on ESPN's Around the Horn.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 07:44 PM
Although what he said is true, Bomani Jones for the most part is a knucklehead and comes more of a dumbass than all the panelists on ESPN's Around the Horn.

Bomani annoys me, a lot. Very combative. I actually think he's quite intelligent at times...just too sure and full of himself.

He's saying a lot of good things right now. I question why I follow him a lot, but he's on point right now.

Except for him saying that all the LeBron criticism ends after he wins a ring. We all know it wont. Those that don't like him will switch the narrative...there's always a way to hate.

naps
05-11-2012, 07:45 PM
Lol at the concept that winning LEAGUE MVP meaning absolutely nothing!

How as a fan of the sport could that thought ever enter your brain?

+1

If you pay attention to the posters who mostly are saying it won't matter are fanboys of a certain player. Had their fav player won it they would be like anothet one to the hardware. There would be threads like "Does anyone have as good work ethic?" OR "Where do you rank him now woth this MVP? Is he better than Jordan?"

popo85
05-11-2012, 07:46 PM
Well deserved.

MrFastBreak
05-11-2012, 07:46 PM
I think Durant was more Valuable to his teams success but can still live with this..Lebron is the best player in the world but how successful would the heat be without him compared to the thunder without Durant?

Wouldn't the best player in the world have more of an impact tho? Seems contradictory.

kobemelo
05-11-2012, 07:47 PM
well deserved lol should be his fourth or fifth tbh but well deserved :cool:

Rivera
05-11-2012, 07:49 PM
Bomani annoys me, a lot. Very combative. I actually think he's quite intelligent at times...just too sure and full of himself.

He's saying a lot of good things right now. I question why I follow him a lot, but he's on point right now.

Except for him saying that all the LeBron criticism ends after he wins a ring. We all know it wont. Those that don't like him will switch the narrative...there's always a way to hate.

but...but he signed with Dwayne Wades team he wasnt he man like kobe wasnt for kobes first 3 rings!

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 07:49 PM
Bomani annoys me, a lot. Very combative. I actually think he's quite intelligent at times...just too sure and full of himself.

He's saying a lot of good things right now. I question why I follow him a lot, but he's on point right now.

Except for him saying that all the LeBron criticism ends after he wins a ring. We all know it wont. Those that don't like him will switch the narrative...there's always a way to hate.

One time on ATH, he made a dumbass comment saying that saying you have a lot of wisdom means that you're just really old, and Jackie MacMullan ripped a new one.

Bravo95
05-11-2012, 07:50 PM
Hilarious how many idiots find themselves rooting for Lebron or Kobe to fail because of some imaginary competition, denying the accomplishments of either just to make the other guy look great or whatever. Both sides need to quit acting like groupies and just appreciate that we're still watching two of the best ever.

LakersA's49ers
05-11-2012, 07:51 PM
I really wish that Kobe had gotten that 2005-2006 mvp, because ppl try to dog on me because lebron now has 2 more MVPs. I think everyone can agree that the Finals MVP is the best individual award in the game, because it means youre team did something remarkable. No hate to James, but his hate is warranted in some degrees.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 07:54 PM
but...but he signed with Dwayne Wades team he wasnt he man like kobe wasnt for kobes first 3 rings!

That's probably the first thing the narrative switches to...which is somewhat silly. But a lot of his criticism is silly...so the more success he sees the worse it will get.

smith&wesson
05-11-2012, 07:59 PM
:clap: well deserved. congrats lebron

LOOTERX9
05-11-2012, 08:02 PM
It's a crime that both Lebron and Nash have more mvp's than shaq and kobe. It's utterly a huge joke

ManRam
05-11-2012, 08:04 PM
It's a crime that both Lebron and Nash have more mvp's than shaq and kobe. It's utterly a huge joke

Aha! The real reasoning comes out.

Nash shouldn't have more than one...I agree.

Neither should Kobe though. He's got more Finals MVPs, and isn't that all that matters? So why so upset?

justinnum1
05-11-2012, 08:04 PM
Well you Bulls fans have plenty of time to sleep while Lebron is still playing

lmfao

Khri
05-11-2012, 08:06 PM
It's a crime that both Lebron and Nash have more mvp's than shaq and kobe. It's utterly a huge joke

It's a crime that you are allowed to post on here with the amount of crap that you type.

theheatles
05-11-2012, 08:09 PM
All hail the king!!!

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 08:11 PM
All hail the prince!!!

Fixed.

Cal827
05-11-2012, 08:12 PM
all hail the drunk guy at the bus stop!!!

:p

LOOTERX9
05-11-2012, 08:15 PM
It's a crime that you are allowed to post on here with the amount of crap that you type.

umm don't you think a player that has 5 nba titles and is considered on a level of jordan as a player should have more mvps than a player with zero titles and has a history of shrinking in playoffs:confused: I think it's obvious how unnatural the situation looks. It makes the NBA look kind of backwards if you ask me

justinnum1
05-11-2012, 08:16 PM
umm don't you think a player that has 5 nba titles and is considered on a level of jordan as a player should have more mvps than a player with zero titles and has a history of shrinking in playoffs:confused: I think it's obvious how unnatural the situation looks. It makes the NBA look kind of backwards if you ask me

:bla:

ManRam
05-11-2012, 08:17 PM
umm don't you think a player that has 5 nba titles and is considered on a level of jordan as a player should have more mvps than a player with zero titles and has a history of shrinking in playoffs:confused: I think it's obvious how unnatural the situation looks. It makes the NBA look kind of backwards if you ask me

Not if he didn't deserve them?

Hell, Kobe didn't even deserve it the year he won it :shrug:

It's a regular season award, and there have been more worthy candidates basically every year Kobe has been in the league. MVPs aren't a lifetime achievement award. Winning rings doesn't mean you deserve more MVPs than you have...

It doesn't make the NBA look weird at all if you can be objective about things.

naps
05-11-2012, 08:26 PM
Doc Rivers (http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/11/lebron-mvp.ap/?ls=iref:nbahpt1) on LeBron as MVP:


"I think LeBron is an MVP candidate every year," Celtics coach Doc Rivers said last month. "It's just who he is. He only does everything. So I don't know what more you can ask from him.

"LeBron, to me, is the favorite every year," Rivers added. "The years he doesn't win it, it'll usually be because people are just tired of voting for him. Statistically, if you go all-around game, I don't know how you don't vote for him every year."

LOOTERX9
05-11-2012, 08:28 PM
Not if he didn't deserve them?

Hell, Kobe didn't even deserve it the year he won it :shrug:

It's a regular season award, and there have been more worthy candidates basically every year Kobe has been in the league. MVPs aren't a lifetime achievement award. Winning rings doesn't mean you deserve more MVPs than you have...

It doesn't make the NBA look weird at all if you can be objective about things.


But don't you think knowing that lebron has continued to fail in playoffs he would stop winning mvp's until he wins a title finally. Why continue to give it to him knowing he will eventually not will the title. it makes the mvp award look weak and unimportant if the nba mvp does not win a title.

beasted86
05-11-2012, 08:28 PM
6 pages?

I didn't bother reading but my guess is a lot of people are mad here.

Congrats, LeBron, but the HEAT still has work to do.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 08:30 PM
He'll get Jordan treatment eventually if he doesn't fall off. People will start looking for other guys to give it to...if if they aren't better players/more deserving. It's not farfetched to think he could win 6 in his career.

More good tweets...tweets that I've been harping for a while.


@erivera7
With LeBron, we're witnessing a special player. Wish more people could appreciate that instead of trying to tear him down.


@erivera7
The fact that people have to go out of their way to hate on LeBron speaks to the gravitas he has. He's compelling. People care.


@erivera7
You don't have to like LeBron. But to completely deny his abilities and simply label him names is silly and immature.

I've fallen guilty of hating player so much to the point I can't enjoy them. But, when all is said and done, if you spent all your time hating a guy like LeBron, you're going to waste the one chance you'll ever have to root for something that special/unique. I get hate, I'm guilty of it too...it just hope people don't look back 20 years from now regretting how they couldn't just sit back, relax, and enjoy something so incredibly unique. He's not the best ever, nor will he ever be, but I'll be stunned if we ever see another player play the game like him. It's a joy.

naps
05-11-2012, 08:30 PM
umm don't you think a player that has 5 nba titles and is considered on a level of jordan as a player should have more mvps than a player with zero titles and has a history of shrinking in playoffs:confused: I think it's obvious how unnatural the situation looks. It makes the NBA look kind of backwards if you ask me

Don't you think that regular season MVP has absolutely NOTHING to do with playoffs?


No, you don't because then you wouldn't be an embarrassment to life itself.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 08:32 PM
But don't you think knowing that lebron has continued to fail in playoffs he would stop winning mvp's until he wins a title finally. Why continue to give it to him knowing he will eventually not will the title. it makes the mvp award look weak and unimportant if the nba mvp does not win a title.

Like I said, I blame him for not winning last year and last year only. In Cleveland, he overachieved. Not a single player in the NBA could have done more than what he did.


And no. The MVP has NOTHING to do with that. How is that hard to understand? Rings don't matter, one bit, in the MVP voting...nor should they. It's for the regular season, and a single regular season only. It's not for the playoffs the year before, or anything the year before. This MVP was strictly about the 2011-2012 NBA regular season. What's so hard to understand.

The award that winning rings matters for is called THE FINALS MVP! And he has none of those because of the points you're making.

bucketss
05-11-2012, 08:33 PM
umm don't you think a player that has 5 nba titles and is considered on a level of jordan as a player should have more mvps than a player with zero titles and has a history of shrinking in playoffs:confused: I think it's obvious how unnatural the situation looks. It makes the NBA look kind of backwards if you ask me

why does shrinking in the playoffs matter when mvp is a regular season award?

BcEuAbRsS
05-11-2012, 08:34 PM
Well deserved... Dude is a regular season machine...

I honestly want him to get a ring now that the Bulls are gone... I want that so all the idiots will stop acting like he isn't the single best basketball player... Can he reach being greatest ever? I doubt it, but top 5 all-time ain't nothing to sneeze at...

naps
05-11-2012, 08:37 PM
He'll get Jordan treatment eventually if he doesn't fall off. People will start looking for other guys to give it to...if if they aren't better players/more deserving. It's not farfetched to think he could win 6 in his career.


I have been saying it as well. Basically he will be the top fav to win it every year but won't get it because of voters getting tired of voting for him. My prediction: He gets 6 before it's all said and done.




I've fallen guilty of hating player so much to the point I can't enjoy them. But, when all is said and done, if you spent all your time hating a guy like LeBron, you're going to waste the one chance you'll ever have to root for something that special/unique. I get hate, I'm guilty of it too...it just hope people don't look back 20 years from now regretting how they couldn't just sit back, relax, and enjoy something so incredibly unique. He's not the best ever, nor will he ever be, but I'll be stunned if we ever see another player play the game like him. It's a joy.

Perfectly put. I wonder if I'll ever see another one like him in my lifetime. I missed Jordan's first 6/7 years and I used to regret but watching LeBron's whole career would certainly alleviate that pain.

unleashthebeast
05-11-2012, 08:38 PM
:cheers:

Congrats LeBron! Amazing season, let's finish it off correctly with a championship.

naps
05-11-2012, 08:40 PM
Well deserved... Dude is a regular season machine...

I honestly want him to get a ring now that the Bulls are gone... I want that so all the idiots will stop acting like he isn't the single best basketball player... Can he reach being greatest ever? I doubt it, but top 5 all-time ain't nothing to sneeze at...

Classy post from a Bulls fan.

LOOTERX9
05-11-2012, 08:40 PM
why does shrinking in the playoffs matter when mvp is a regular season award?

cause knowing lebron's choking playoff history he should not be given the award until he wins a title. should have just gave mvp award to durant or cp3. Lebron winning league mvp's and then shrinking in playoffs is getting old and boring. it makes winning league mvp meaningless

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 08:40 PM
Well deserved... Dude is a regular season machine...

I honestly want him to get a ring now that the Bulls are gone... I want that so all the idiots will stop acting like he isn't the single best basketball player... Can he reach being greatest ever? I doubt it, but top 5 all-time ain't nothing to sneeze at...

Bird, Magic, Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, Russell and Chamberlain are already etched in stone. It'll be hard to overcome those guys. And then you look at the next tier of that bottom part of the top 10 with O'Neal, Duncan, Bryant and Olajuwon. Yeah, it's it's going to take a lot more for him to do than to just win 1 or 2 titles. The fact that he has D-Wade on the team does hurt his overall rankings at the end. At he continued to do what he is doing now in Cleveland and then won several titles, again, that would elevate him even more. His legacy does take a bit because he himself chose to get ultimate help by joining Wade and Bosh via free agency.

Doesn't matter how you cut it at the end, the truth is the truth.

Buckwheat
05-11-2012, 08:43 PM
cause knowing lebron's choking playoff history he should not be given the award until he wins a title. should have just gave mvp award to durant or cp3. Lebron winning league mvp's and then shrinking in playoffs is getting old and boring. it makes winning league mvp meaningless

LeBron has two less game winning playoff shots than Kobe in a dozen less attempts.

bucketss
05-11-2012, 08:43 PM
cause knowing lebron's choking playoff history he should not be given the award until he wins a title. should have just gave mvp award to durant or cp3. Lebron winning league mvp's and then shrinking in playoffs is getting old and boring. it makes winning league mvp meaningless

well lebron has done more in the playoffs than cp3 durant combined why you acting like they are better in the playoffs? lebron top 5 in nba history in playoff scoring, and do you think voters are going to sit around and go oh well lebron choked last year lets not vote for him? you have your whole profile dedicated to lebron so i dont you can think objectively untill you lose the hater goggles.

beasted86
05-11-2012, 08:44 PM
Bird, Magic, Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, Russell and Chamberlain are already etched in stone. It'll be hard to overcome those guys. And then you look at the next tier of that bottom part of the top 10 with O'Neal, Duncan, Bryant and Olajuwon. Yeah, it's it's going to take a lot more for him to do than to just win 1 or 2 titles. The fact that he has D-Wade on the team does hurt his overall rankings at the end. At he continued to do what he is doing now in Cleveland and then won several titles, again, that would elevate him even more. His legacy does take a bit because he himself chose to get ultimate help by joining Wade and Bosh via free agency.

Doesn't matter how you cut it at the end, the truth is the truth.

Bird and Magic can surely be passed. Not sure if LeBron will do it, or anyone else in the current NBA, but they aren't part of that "Mount Rushmore" of NBA greats. The others I agree on.

Rivera
05-11-2012, 08:45 PM
cause knowing lebron's choking playoff history he should not be given the award until he wins a title. should have just gave mvp award to durant or cp3. Lebron winning league mvp's and then shrinking in playoffs is getting old and boring. it makes winning league mvp meaningless

so you dont want to give it to lebron because he hasnt won a championship but you wouldnt mind givin it to cp3 or durant even though neither one of them has one a championship either?

BcEuAbRsS
05-11-2012, 08:45 PM
I was gonna debate you on Bird, but I actually took a peak at his career and those are some pretty sexy stats.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 08:45 PM
cause knowing lebron's choking playoff history he should not be given the award until he wins a title. should have just gave mvp award to durant or cp3. Lebron winning league mvp's and then shrinking in playoffs is getting old and boring. it makes winning league mvp meaningless

OK. You are blatantly ignoring reason. I will no longer pay attention to your posts.

BklynKnicks3
05-11-2012, 08:47 PM
disgrace how they give mvp to a coward who took the easy route. I cant stand those 2 clowns wade and lebron

Gators123
05-11-2012, 08:47 PM
LeBron is a douche, but he is still by far the best player on the planet.

Congrats.

BcEuAbRsS
05-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Bird and Magic can surely be passed. Not sure if LeBron will do it, or anyone else in the current NBA, but they aren't part of that "Mount Rushmore" of NBA greats. The others I agree on.

Disagree greatly... go look at their careers... Lebron has had a very nice one but those guys have sexy stats...

JordansBulls
05-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Bird, Magic, Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, Russell and Chamberlain are already etched in stone. It'll be hard to overcome those guys. And then you look at the next tier of that bottom part of the top 10 with O'Neal, Duncan, Bryant and Olajuwon. Yeah, it's it's going to take a lot more for him to do than to just win 1 or 2 titles. The fact that he has D-Wade on the team does hurt his overall rankings at the end. At he continued to do what he is doing now in Cleveland and then won several titles, again, that would elevate him even more. His legacy does take a bit because he himself chose to get ultimate help by joining Wade and Bosh via free agency.

Doesn't matter how you cut it at the end, the truth is the truth.

I wouldn't say Wilt is etched in stone as far as top 5 all time is concerned and neither is Bird. They are probably the two guys who would be the first to be out of the top 6 all time.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 08:51 PM
disgrace how they give mvp to a coward who took the easy route. I cant stand those 2 clowns wade and lebron

Because none of that matters :shrug:

beasted86
05-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Disagree greatly... go look at their careers... Lebron has had a very nice one but those guys have sexy stats...

Pace adjusted they aren't in a league above LeBron or many other NBA greats. They also weren't 2-way players.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 08:53 PM
Bird and Magic can surely be passed. Not sure if LeBron will do it, or anyone else in the current NBA, but they aren't part of that "Mount Rushmore" of NBA greats. The others I agree on.

Did you just say that Bird and Magic aren't part of the Mt Rushmore of the NBA when they basically put the NBA on the World Map and then MJ basically kept the lights on?


Those 2 guys made today's NBA. They started the brickwork and MJ finished the job in superior fashion with the aesthetics, lighting, paintwork you name it.


LeBron has just taken pre-game photographs on the sidelines. That's it. The guy needs to do more in terms of being a great great ambassador of the game and even breathing near the greats of this game.

CoffeeJanitor
05-11-2012, 08:54 PM
LeBron could overtake Bird...

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 08:54 PM
I wouldn't say Wilt is etched in stone as far as top 5 all time is concerned and neither is Bird. They are probably the two guys who would be the first to be out of the top 6 all time.

Well to be fair JB, in my current rankings of those guys, I have:

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird


I think the one guy right now if he wins 1 or 2 more rings that can surpass Wilt and Bird for that 5th spot right now is Kobe. That's the only guy.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 08:56 PM
LeBron has just taken pre-game photographs on the sidelines. That's it. The guy needs to do more in terms of being a great great ambassador of the game and even breathing near the greats of this game.

Well, he's the face of the league, whether it's good or bad.

He's also the most charitable player in the game right now. That's being a pretty solid ambassador I'd say. All those trips overseas promoting the game too? No?

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 09:00 PM
Well, he's the face of the league, whether it's good or bad.

He's also the most charitable player in the game right now. That's being a pretty solid ambassador I'd say. All those trips overseas promoting the game too? No?


Many superstars do that. Actually, they started doing all that after the 08 Olympics. The world saw how respected Bryant was in China during the olympics, and now all these others star's agents and PR guys along with Stern have told their league's superstars to go out there and promote themselves worldwide. Stern's been savoring to have the NBA go international for yrs now, but before Stern had this aspiration, guys like Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe (post MJ era of course) were already going globally trying to promote the game.


LeBron's isn't the first and he won't be the last. It's just that it's more of a concerted effort by today's superstars because it's a movement in trying to expand the National Basketball Association globally into Europe, which Stern has wanted now for the last 5 yrs.

LOOTERX9
05-11-2012, 09:03 PM
LeBron has two less game winning playoff shots than Kobe in a dozen less attempts.

and 5 less rings

LOOTERX9
05-11-2012, 09:05 PM
so you dont want to give it to lebron because he hasnt won a championship but you wouldnt mind givin it to cp3 or durant even though neither one of them has one a championship either?

yes cause lebron winning the mvp is boring these days. it would be different if he was winning titles and winning mvp's. i'd would have gave it to someone new this season cause durant never won it and neither has cp3. it would have been refreshing

UPRock
05-11-2012, 09:06 PM
Yeah, I remember how many votes McGrady past his prime got in the All Star game for going around the world working with charity, and of course China.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 09:08 PM
Many superstars do that. Actually, they started doing all that after the 08 Olympics. The world saw how respected Bryant was in China during the olympics, and now all these others star's agents and PR guys along with Stern have told their league's superstars to go out there and promote themselves worldwide. Stern's been savoring to have the NBA go international for yrs now, but before Stern had this aspiration, guys like Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe (post MJ era of course) were already going globally trying to promote the game.


LeBron's isn't the first and he won't be the last. It's just that it's more of a concerted effort by today's superstars because it's a movement in trying to expand the National Basketball Association globally into Europe, which Stern has wanted now for the last 5 yrs.

I didn't say he was the first. I'm just saying he puts his more than his fair share. You said he's not an ambassador, and I disagreed. What more do you want from him? Of course he can't be the first to go overseas and promote. Of course he can't be the first to be ultra-charitable. But he does it, and he does way more than what's required. He's gone on some trips to China by himself to promote. He's very marketable there...there are tons of LeBron products in China. During the lockout he did a tremendous amount of marketing in China. He was a huge part of all the lockout exhibition games, orchestrating much of it on his own. He wasn't the only one to go overseas, and never did I say he was...but he's a huge part of the NBA's marketability and image. He's a huge ambassador IMO. That's all I'm saying. He's not the only one...you just said he wasn't, and I'm explaining how he is.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 09:08 PM
and 5 less rings

Was waiting for it!


RINGS!!!! RAWR!

FlashMacker
05-11-2012, 09:11 PM
I wouldn't say Wilt is etched in stone as far as top 5 all time is concerned and neither is Bird. They are probably the two guys who would be the first to be out of the top 6 all time.


Wilt was a beast. I consider him the greatest player ever.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 09:12 PM
Was waiting for it!


RINGS!!!! RAWR!

:laugh2:

I don't know, I just think this whole NBA Cares thing is such a farce, sometimes you just can't tell what's real and what's staged. I don't know if nowadays, it's just a marketing ploy and to raise the reputation of players and the league or if it's truly a sincere thing that the NBA does.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 09:13 PM
Wilt was a beast. I consider him the greatest player ever.

Not if Russell kept owning his teams.

justinnum1
05-11-2012, 09:13 PM
A few people in this thread are so mad and i find it hilarious:laugh:

ManRam
05-11-2012, 09:15 PM
:laugh2:

I don't know, I just think this whole NBA Cares thing is such a farce, sometimes you just can't tell what's real and what's staged. I don't know if nowadays, it's just a marketing ploy and to raise the reputation of players and the league or if it's truly a sincere thing that the NBA does.

It's definitely hard to tell, because much of it is required. But he goes above and beyond what's required. The work he puts in back in Akron, with the B&G clubs and really all across the board is pretty impressive. There was an article the other day, and it is a bit tough to calculate perfectly because sometimes donation totals aren't readily given, about how he was indeed the most charitable player in the NBA. I'll try and find it real quick. Think it was forbes, something like that...

But I agree. NBA Cares is good and all...but obviously most of it is forced. But forced is better than nothing I guess.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 09:15 PM
A few people in this thread are so mad and i find it hilarious:laugh:

Um, we were having a nice discussion about rankings, ambassador roles and such for LeBron. But um, thanks for sidetracking the discussion, lol.

UPRock
05-11-2012, 09:16 PM
disgrace how they give mvp to a coward who took the easy route. I cant stand those 2 clowns wade and lebron

Says the guy with a Melo and STAT signature, smh. You're just mad because he didn't go to your team.

JordansBulls
05-11-2012, 09:17 PM
Wilt was a beast. I consider him the greatest player ever.

Not when your numbers drop from the season to the playoffs and not when you can't even win a title when you have a guy who averaged 39 ppg in the finals.

For instance,

Most Career 50+ Point Games in Playoffs History
1. MJ = 8
2. Wilt = 4
3. West = 3
Iverson

Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 81
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60

Wilt played in more playoff games than both West and Baylor two guys in his same era and both of them have more 40+ and 30+ point games than Wilt. What does that say about how well Wilt played when it mattered most? Anyone can put up empty stats.

The Flash
05-11-2012, 09:18 PM
:laugh2:

I don't know, I just think this whole NBA Cares thing is such a farce, sometimes you just can't tell what's real and what's staged. I don't know if nowadays, it's just a marketing ploy and to raise the reputation of players and the league or if it's truly a sincere thing that the NBA does.

Well the league is doing better than before, why not also do some good things?

naps
05-11-2012, 09:19 PM
Bird, Magic, Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, Russell and Chamberlain are already etched in stone. It'll be hard to overcome those guys. And then you look at the next tier of that bottom part of the top 10 with O'Neal, Duncan, Bryant and Olajuwon. Yeah, it's it's going to take a lot more for him to do than to just win 1 or 2 titles. The fact that he has D-Wade on the team does hurt his overall rankings at the end. At he continued to do what he is doing now in Cleveland and then won several titles, again, that would elevate him even more. His legacy does take a bit because he himself chose to get ultimate help by joining Wade and Bosh via free agency.

Doesn't matter how you cut it at the end, the truth is the truth.

So it hurts LeBron because he plays with Wade but it didn't hurt in your eyes Magic and Kareem played with each other and are both top 5 all time along with Worthy who was a finals MVP, Russell had those legendary rosters, Jordan had Pippens-Rodmans, Bird had McHale-Parish, Shaq had Kobe, Kobe had Shaq?

Look I think it will be extremely difficult for him to get past those guys but he has legit shots at getting past all of them except may be Jordan. Guys on that list had played with HOFers and won championships. You can't blame for LeBron playing with Wade because he's not doing it any different.

UPRock
05-11-2012, 09:19 PM
Not when your numbers drop from the season to the playoffs and not when you can't even win a title when you have a guy who averaged 39 ppg in the finals.

For instance,

Most Career 50+ Point Games in Playoffs History
1. MJ = 8
2. Wilt = 4
3. West = 3
Iverson

Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 81
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60

Wilt played in more playoff games than both West and Baylor two guys in his same era and both of them have more 40+ and 30+ point games than Wilt. What does that say about how well Wilt played when it mattered most? Anyone can put up empty stats.

I Agree with everything you just said, MJ dominating the top by a large margin, incredible.

FlashMacker
05-11-2012, 09:23 PM
Not when your numbers drop from the season to the playoffs and not when you can't even win a title when you have a guy who averaged 39 ppg in the finals.

For instance,

Most Career 50+ Point Games in Playoffs History
1. MJ = 8
2. Wilt = 4
3. West = 3
Iverson

Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 81
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60

Wilt played in more playoff games than both West and Baylor two guys in his same era and both of them have more 40+ and 30+ point games than Wilt. What does that say about how well Wilt played when it mattered most? Anyone can put up empty stats.


Wilt was also a great rebounder

naps
05-11-2012, 09:23 PM
disgrace how they give mvp to a coward who took the easy route. I cant stand those 2 clowns wade and lebron

So he took the easy route? He joined Heat as a FA but Melo forced Nuggets hands to Knicks to form his own big three, Melo didn't take the easy route? You are just mad because you team got swept by LeBron, oh my bad they won a game...LMFAO!

ManRam
05-11-2012, 09:24 PM
Not when your numbers drop from the season to the playoffs and not when you can't even win a title when you have a guy who averaged 39 ppg in the finals.

For instance,

Most Career 50+ Point Games in Playoffs History
1. MJ = 8
2. Wilt = 4
3. West = 3
Iverson

Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 81
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60

Wilt played in more playoff games than both West and Baylor two guys in his same era and both of them have more 40+ and 30+ point games than Wilt. What does that say about how well Wilt played when it mattered most? Anyone can put up empty stats.

LeBron and Kobe are so interconnected these days...and this brought up a ton of Kobe legacy talk on twitter...mainly in relation to Jordan. It's just laughable. Kobe can win 7 rings, and never will be the player Jordan was. Kobe's top 10 all time, but he's not even close to Jordan, and no TEAM accomplishment will ever change that. We're sidetracking, but whatever. Kobe's best FG% was 46.9%. Jordan's career FG% was 49.7%. I know there's so much more than just that...but that's just a start.

Jordan is on his own level in terms of wings. Kobe can't sniff him, nor can LeBron. Sucks everything either of these two has to be connected to the other, and then connected to Jordan. Just let Jordan be Jordan, Kobe be Kobe and LBJ be LBJ. :shrug:

da ThRONe
05-11-2012, 09:29 PM
If anything playing with Wade makes it harder for James. They look to score in similar ways and both are iso guys that dominate the ball. It's not like Wade offense helps create for LeBron. Same with Durant and Westbrook.

LakersMaster24
05-11-2012, 09:29 PM
Congrats to Lebron! Well deserved! Now go get the Finals MVP....if you can ;)

The Flash
05-11-2012, 09:30 PM
So he took the easy route? He joined Heat as a FA but Melo forced Nuggets hands to Knicks to form his own big three, Melo didn't take the easy route? You are just mad because you team got swept by LeBron, oh my bad they won a game...LMFAO!

I think he was mad before that, mad since Lebron didn't pick his team

bucketss
05-11-2012, 09:31 PM
So he took the easy route? He joined Heat as a FA but Melo forced Nuggets hands to Knicks to form his own big three, Melo didn't take the easy route? You are just mad because you team got swept by LeBron, oh my bad they won a game...LMFAO!

a ball hog(kobe) + no rings(lebron) = carmelo anthony lol i saw a picture that said that i was laughing at the accuracy

JordansBulls
05-11-2012, 09:31 PM
Wilt was also a great rebounder

You talk about what Wilt did in the regular season, which is fine and all, but when talking about the best, what they did in the playoffs and finals is what matters. Wilt getting 55 rebounds against Russell in a meaningless regular season game doesn't matter much does it? Especially when in the finals he averages 11.7 ppg against him one year.

Wilt lost 5 series with Homecourt Advantage, 5 of them. Did the poster know that?

Here were the years.

Wilt Chamberlain (lost in 60-61, 65-66, 67-68, 68-69, 72-73)

Now I know what you are going to say that Jordan never played the Celtics. Well how about why did Wilt lose with Homecourt Advantage to the Syracuse Nationals in Round 1 when the Nationals were 38-41. Not only did he lose but he got swept.

Wilt's scoring from regular season to playoffs went down every single year of his career (sometimes by a lot) on lower efficiency (.547 to .523). Obviously facing better teams and facing Russell (who held Wilt to 5.7 ppg under his career average in their 147 meetings) had something to do with it, but Wilt failed to step up his game and it didn't help his teams in the playoffs.

In the regular season , Wilt was on some of the best teams in his era. Most seem to assume that Wilt just didn't have the supporting cast to contend with the greatest dynasty ever. This is not the case. His 1967 Sixers were named the best team ever in 1980, and he had that team's core (Wilt, Greer, Walker, Cunningham, Jackson) for 3 years straight, and also had the best SG in West and best SF in Baylor (up to that point) for a couple years after, forming a trio that Wilt himself said he thought could go down as the greatest team of all time. Talented rosters that won a lot in the regular season and had high expectations in the playoffs.

When the playoffs arrived, however, it was a different story. Wilt's failures:

1961: Wilt's 46-33 Warriors are swept by the 38-41 Nationals

1962: Wilt, at the height of his scoring prowess having averaged 50.4 ppg in the regular season, is held to a season-low 22 points in the 7th and deciding game by Bill Russell

1966: Wilt's 55-25 Sixers lose 4-1 to the 54-26 Celtics

1967: Wilt's single impressive playoff run, nearly averaging a triple double. The 68-13 Sixers soundly beat the Celtics 4-1, proving that this was a championship caliber core

1968: The same Sixers (with Wilt winning season MVP) go 62-20 and lose to the 54-28 Celtics in 7 games after being up 3-1. In Game 7 Wilt did not attempt a field goal in the 2nd half

1969: One of the most talented trios ever in Wilt, West, and Baylor go 55-25 and win the regular season series 4-2 against the 48-34 Celtics, proving again Wilt had the talent to beat them. The Lakers were heavily favored against the Celtics in the Finals. But again, Wilt laid another 7th game egg against the Celtics when he "hurt his leg" with 6 minutes to go and did not play the rest of the game

1970: Wilt's Lakers return to the Finals, this time against the Knicks. Reed missed game 6 due to injury and Wilt demolished the Knicks to send it to a 7th game. So what happened in Game 7? You guessed it: another stinker by Wilt's 21 points (1-11 from the line) against a hobbling, injured Reed and his backups.


And let's be real about something: In the 1970 Finals, the Lakers were up 20 points in Game 5 and Willis Reed was hurt and the Knicks still won that game. Game 6, Willis Reed missed that game and the Lakers won and in game 7 Willis Reed was still hurt and he came in to play in the game. He only scored like 4 points in it and thus that is why his stats were down. So don't give me this mess about how good Wilt was when he couldn't dominate a player that was injured.
Frazier took over Game 7 and that's why the Knicks won. Thus what was Wilt doing in Game 7 in the Finals? He couldn't even dominate a hubbled Willis Reed.


1973: Wilt's 60-22 Lakers lose 4-1 to the 57-25 Knicks


Wilt lost 5 series when his teams were the higher seed. He failed to step up in 4 Game 7s. By what standards was Wilt an excellent playoff performer if he couldn't lead his teams to victory when he had great opportunities to do so? Certainly not GOAT standards. Jordan never lost a series in which the Bulls were the higher seed.

Wilt, despite all his individual brilliance in the regular season, was a chronic underachiever in the playoffs. To paraphrase Barry, Wilt was simply a loser.


Now tell me, how do you average 50 ppg for a season but in game 7 of the playoffs you score 22? How could anyone be considered the best when in the most important games they show up like that?

Also what about this what Bill Russell even noticed.

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1969.htm

The Lakers were heavily favored to win the 1969 NBA Finals against the old, battered Celtics, but then Chamberlain became the victim of one of the most controversial coaching decisions in NBA history. In Game 7, Wilt hurt his leg with six minutes left to play, with the Lakers trailing by nine points. The Celtics won, 108-106. When Chamberlain had asked out of the game, the Lakers had been trailing by nine points, but then mounted a comeback to pull within one by the time he asked back in; this caused some to assume that Chamberlain had not really been injured, but instead had given up and "copped out" of the game when it looked as though the Lakers would lose. Because of this, some branded him a scapegoat and a quitter. Even Bill Russell ridiculed him, which almost caused Chamberlain to end their friendship..



http://www.barrystickets.com/lakers/lakers-players/wilt-chamberlain.php

In 1970, the acquisition of the sharpshooting guard Gail Goodrich helped with the Lakers' offensive firepower with the loss of Baylor. In the NBA Finals, the Lakers were matched up against the New York Knicks, one of the best defensive teams of the post-Russell-Celtics era. Both teams fought a hard, grueling series, but in Game 5, Chamberlain's opposing center Willis Reed suffered a serious thigh injury. The Knicks won that game, but they were demolished in Game 6 with Chamberlain's strong offense, and they looked doomed in Game 7 without their starting center. However, Reed limped onto the court, won the opening tip-off against Chamberlain, and scored the first four points, inspiring his team to one of the most famous playoff upsets of all time. Although Reed was able to play only a fraction of the game, and could hardly move when he did play, Chamberlain still scored only 21 points (his season average had been 27.3) on only 16 shots, quite few in a Game 7. Further, he shot an abysmal 1-of-11 from the foul line, making the game perhaps his greatest on-court failure.

1-11 from the foul in Game 7 of the NBA Finals and this is supposed to be the GOAT?



NBA PLAYOFFS HIGH SCORING GAME BY YEAR
1946-47 - 37 Joe Fulks, PHW vs CHI at PHW 16Apr47
1947-48 - 34 Connie Simmons, BLT vs NYK at BLT 27Mar48
1948-49 - 42 George Mikan, MPL vs WSC 4Apr49 @ MPL
1949-50 - 40 George Mikan, MPL vs SYR at MPL 23Apr50
1950-51 - 41 George Mikan, MPL vs IDS at MPL 21Mar51
1951-52 - 47 George Mikan, MPL at ROC 29Mar52
1952-53 - 50 Bob Cousy, BOS vs SYR at BOS 21Mar53
1953-54 - 36 Dolph Schayes, SYR at NYK 21Mar54
1954-55 - 32 Bill Sharman, BOS at SYR 24Mar55
1955-56 - 43 Neil Johnson, PHW at SYR 25Mar56
1956-57 - 42 Bob Leonard, MPL vs STL at MPL 25Mar57
1957-58 - 50 Bob Pettit, STL vs BOS at STL 12Apr58
1958-59 - 40 Cliff Hagan, STL vs MPL at STL 21Mar59
1959-60 - 53 Wilt Chamberlain, PHW vs SYR at PHW 14Mar60
1960-61 - 47 Elgin Baylor, LAL at DET 18Mar61
............... 47 Elgin Baylor, LAL at STL 27Mar61
1961-62 - 61 Elgin Baylor, LAL at BOS 14Apr62
1962-63 - 47 Sam Jones, BOS vs CIN at BOS 10Apr63
1963-64 - 50 Wilt Chamberlain, SFW vs STL at SFW 10Apr64
1964-65 - 52 Jerry West, LAL vs BAL at LAL 3Apr65
1965-66 - 46 Wilt Chamberlain, PHI vs BOS at PHI 12Apr66
1966-67 - 55 Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI at SFW 18Apr67
1967-68 - 46 Zelmo Beaty, STL vs SFW 23Mar68 @ STL
1968-69 - 53 Jerry West, LAL vs BOS at LAL 23Apr69
1969-70 - 50 Billy Cunningham, PHI vs MIL at PHI 1Apr70
1970-71 - 39 Gail Goodrich, LAL at CHI 28Mar71
1971-72 - 43 John Havlicek BOS at ATL 31Mar72
1972-73 - 54 John Havlicek, BOS vs ATL at BOS 1Apr73
1973-74 - 44 Bob McAdoo, BUF vs BOS 6Apr74 at BUF
............... 44 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, MIL at CHI 18Apr74
1974-75 - 50 Bob McAdoo, BUF vs WAS at BUF 18Apr75
1975-76 - 45 Fred Brown, SEA vs PHO at SEA 15Apr76
1976-77 - 45 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LAL vs GSW at LAL 29Apr77
1977-78 - 46 George Gervin, SAN vs WAS at SAN 18Apr78
1978-79 - 42 George Gervin, SAN vs WAS at SAN 11May79
............... 42 George Gervin, SAN at WAS 18May79
1979-80 - 44 George Gervin, SAN vs HOU at SAN 4Apr80
1980-81 - 42 Calvin Murphy, HOU at SAN 17Apr81
............... 42 Moses Malone, HOU vs KCK at HOU 26Apr81
1981-82 - 39 George Gervin, SAN vs LAL at SAN 14May82
............... 39 Andrew Toney, PHI vs BOS at PHI 16May82
1982-83 - 42 Alex English, DEN vs PHO at PHO 24Apr83
............... 42 George Gervin, SAN at DEN 26Apr83
1983-84 - 46 Bernard King, NYK at DET 19Apr84
............... 46 Bernard King, NYK vs DET at NYK 22Apr84
1984-85 - 43 Rolando Blackman, DAL vs POR at DAL 18Apr85
............... 43 Larry Bird, BOS vs DET at BOS 8May85
1985-86 - 63 Michael Jordan, CHI at BOS 20Apr86
1986-87 - 51 Sleepy Floyd, GSW vs LAL at GSW 10May87
1987-88 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 1May88
1988-89 - 50 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 5May89
1989-90 - 49 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 11May90
1990-91 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 10May91
1991-92 - 56 Michael Jordan, CHI at MIA 29Apr92[/b]
1992-93 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO at CHI 16Jun93
1993-94 - 56 Charles Barkley, PHO at GSW 4May94
1994-95 - 48 Michael Jordan, CHI at CHA 28Apr95
1995-96 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at NYK 11May96
1996-97 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs WAS at CHI 27Apr97
1997-98 - 45 Michael Jordan, CHI at UTA 14Jun98
1998-99 - 37 Tim Duncan, SAN at LAL 22May99
............... 37 Scottie Pippen, HOU vs LAL at HOU 13May99
............... 37 Shaquille O'Neal, LAL vs HOU at HOU 15May99
............... 37 Allen Iverson, PHI vs ORL at PHI 15May99
1999-00 - 50 Karl Malone, UTA vs SEA at UTA 22Apr00
-----
ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2
Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0
Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI, 1965..... 40.8
Elgin Baylor, LAL vs BOS, 1962..... 40.6

LakersMaster24
05-11-2012, 09:33 PM
Here comes JB with his essays...

naps
05-11-2012, 09:33 PM
LOL...JB is going off! Who poked him?

JordansBulls
05-11-2012, 09:33 PM
LeBron and Kobe are so interconnected these days...and this brought up a ton of Kobe legacy talk on twitter...mainly in relation to Jordan. It's just laughable. Kobe can win 7 rings, and never will be the player Jordan was. Kobe's top 10 all time, but he's not even close to Jordan, and no TEAM accomplishment will ever change that. We're sidetracking, but whatever. Kobe's best FG% was 46.9%. Jordan's career FG% was 49.7%. I know there's so much more than just that...but that's just a start.

Jordan is on his own level in terms of wings. Kobe can't sniff him, nor can LeBron. Sucks everything either of these two has to be connected to the other, and then connected to Jordan. Just let Jordan be Jordan, Kobe be Kobe and LBJ be LBJ. :shrug:

My post was in reference to the guy that was referring to Wilt and I was showing how West and Baylor had more 40+ and 30+ games in the playoffs than Wilt despite playing less playoff games than him.

Jarvo
05-11-2012, 09:34 PM
Congrats Lebron he deserved it so congrats, Just win a title to make everyone shut up!

ManRam
05-11-2012, 09:34 PM
My post was in reference to the guy that was referring to Wilt and I was showing how West and Baylor had more 40+ and 30+ games in the playoffs than Wilt despite playing less playoff games than him.

Oh...I have nothing wrong with anything you've said. My post wasn't triggered by your post really.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 09:43 PM
So it hurts LeBron because he plays with Wade but it didn't hurt in your eyes Magic and Kareem played with each other and are both top 5 all time along with Worthy who was a finals MVP, Russell had those legendary rosters, Jordan had Pippens-Rodmans, Bird had McHale-Parish, Shaq had Kobe, Kobe had Shaq?

Look I think it will be extremely difficult for him to get past those guys but he has legit shots at getting past all of them except may be Jordan. Guys on that list had played with HOFers and won championships. You can't blame for LeBron playing with Wade because he's not doing it any different.

Naps......HE CHOSE TO PLAY WITH WADE & BOSH. HE CHOSE!

There is a huge difference. There's something to be said about things just "happening" naturally.

Kareem was traded from the Bucks to the Lakers after '75. People will criticize Kareem for telling management to trade him to LA, but the fact of the matter is that Kareem (Lew Alcindor) was drafted in '69 and won a title in his 2nd season in Milwaukee. The guy gave the Big O his only title and the city of Milwaukee their only title.

Then Magic was drafted by the Lakers. Then Worthy was drafted by the Lakers. It just happened. Those guys didn't wake up one morning and say "We want to play with so and so".


MJ and Pippen were drafted 3 yrs apart by the Chicago Bulls. Those guys didn't wake up one morning and say "We want to be play with the other". And Rodman had already won 2 titles with the Bad Boy Pistons without MJ&Pip while MJ&Pip had already won 3 titles w/o Rodman before the Worm decided to join them in '95.


McHale, Parish and Bird happened as well.


Shaq wanted to go to LA same reasons as Kareem, but there was no established star player there for both of those guys. Magic just happened for Kareem and Kobe just happened for Shaq. Kobe didn't say "I want to be play with Shaq", Jerry West made sure those 2 things happened simulatenously. One couldn't happen without the other. When Shaq came to LA, he basically said: "Who the hell is this bald skinny 17 yr old kid. Never heard of him".


Fact of the matter is that LeBron just became the best player in the league in '09, came off of two great regular season MVPs with the top record in the league both yrs, and when he was unsuccessful for 2 yrs, he decided to ditch his team, leaving them high and dry at age 25 and decided to join force with a guy who had already won a championship and finals MVP without him.

Master Mind
05-11-2012, 09:48 PM
Naps......HE CHOSE TO PLAY WITH WADE & BOSH. HE CHOSE!

There is a huge difference. There's something to be said about things just "happening" naturally.

Kareem was traded from the Bucks to the Lakers after '75. People will criticize Kareem for telling management to trade him to LA, but the fact of the matter is that Kareem (Lew Alcindor) was drafted in '69 and won a title in his 2nd season in Milwaukee. The guy gave the Big O his only title and the city of Milwaukee their only title.

Then Magic was drafted by the Lakers. Then Worthy was drafted by the Lakers. It just happened. Those guys didn't wake up one morning and say "We want to play with so and so".


MJ and Pippen were drafted 3 yrs apart by the Chicago Bulls. Those guys didn't wake up one morning and say "We want to be play with the other". And Rodman had already won 2 titles with the Bad Boy Pistons without MJ&Pip while MJ&Pip had already won 3 titles w/o Rodman before the Worm decided to join them in '95.


McHale, Parish and Bird happened as well.


Shaq wanted to go to LA same reasons as Kareem, but there was no established star player there for both of those guys. Magic just happened for Kareem and Kobe just happened for Shaq. Kobe didn't say "I want to be play with Shaq", Jerry West made sure those 2 things happened simulatenously. One couldn't happen without the other. When Shaq came to LA, he basically said: "Who the hell is this bald skinny 17 yr old kid. Never heard of him".


Fact of the matter is that LeBron just became the best player in the league in '09, came off of two great regular season MVPs with the top record in the league both yrs, and when he was unsuccessful for 2 yrs, he decided to ditch his team, leaving them high and dry at age 25 and decided to join force with a guy who had already won a championship and finals MVP without him.

:shrug:

Maybe they should do away with free agency

dalton749
05-11-2012, 09:48 PM
Even if LeBron does win iteveryone will still hate and say yea but it was with the heat

ManRam
05-11-2012, 09:49 PM
Naps......HE CHOSE TO PLAY WITH WADE & BOSH. HE CHOSE!

There is a huge difference. There's something to be said about things just "happening" naturally.

Kareem was traded from the Bucks to the Lakers after '75. People will criticize Kareem for telling management to trade him to LA, but the fact of the matter is that Kareem (Lew Alcindor) was drafted in '69 and won a title in his 2nd season in Milwaukee. The guy gave the Big O his only title and the city of Milwaukee their only title.

Then Magic was drafted by the Lakers. Then Worthy was drafted by the Lakers. It just happened. Those guys didn't wake up one morning and say "We want to play with so and so".


MJ and Pippen were drafted 3 yrs apart by the Chicago Bulls. Those guys didn't wake up one morning and say "We want to be play with the other". And Rodman had already won 2 titles with the Bad Boy Pistons without MJ&Pip while MJ&Pip had already won 3 titles w/o Rodman before the Worm decided to join them in '95.


McHale, Parish and Bird happened as well.


Shaq wanted to go to LA same reasons as Kareem, but there was no established star player there for both of those guys. Magic just happened for Kareem and Kobe just happened for Shaq. Kobe didn't say "I want to be play with Shaq", Jerry West made sure those 2 things happened simulatenously. One couldn't happen without the other. When Shaq came to LA, he basically said: "Who the hell is this bald skinny 17 yr old kid. Never heard of him".


Fact of the matter is that LeBron just became the best player in the league in '09, came off of two great regular season MVPs with the top record in the league both yrs, and when he was unsuccessful for 2 yrs, he decided to ditch his team, leaving them high and dry at age 25 and decided to join force with a guy who had already won a championship and finals MVP without him.

He was a free agent. Kobe was blessed with Shaq and Phil...then blessed with his team being able to bring in a guy like Pau. Jordan was blessed with much of the same. The great Celtic and Laker teams of the past were blessed with many great players. Duncan blessed with Robinson and then Manu/Parker. Etc. etc. etc.

You can make excuses as to how all those great teams with MULTIPLE HOFers came to be...but the fact is, LeBron NEVER had that. So why hold him to the same standard we hold them all to?

No one has ever won it on their own, and that would have been what LeBron would have HAD to do in Cleveland.

LeBron was blessed with nothing. I'd imagine, knowing how competitive Kobe is, that he'd want to leave if his team couldn't bring in adequate help. Hell, he refused to go to Charlotte in the first place probably for that fear...and flirted with leaving when things weren't going well post-Shaq/pre-Pau.

Cleveland had a lot of time to bring in an adequate sidekick, or a great supporting cast...and they didn't. He exercised his FA rights to leave, and so be it. Who cares? He didn't have enough around him, so he left. So be it. Most of the greats never had that problem, so acting like they're holier is silly...

Mr Costanza
05-11-2012, 09:57 PM
No matter what lebron does, for a lot of people he will always have a asterisk next to all his post-decision accomplishments.

MTL_123
05-11-2012, 09:59 PM
Congrats to lebron so happy that he won it now win the finals MVP

naps
05-11-2012, 10:00 PM
Naps......HE CHOSE TO PLAY WITH WADE & BOSH. HE CHOSE!

There is a huge difference. There's something to be said about things just "happening" naturally.

Kareem was traded from the Bucks to the Lakers after '75. People will criticize Kareem for telling management to trade him to LA, but the fact of the matter is that Kareem (Lew Alcindor) was drafted in '69 and won a title in his 2nd season in Milwaukee. The guy gave the Big O his only title and the city of Milwaukee their only title.

Then Magic was drafted by the Lakers. Then Worthy was drafted by the Lakers. It just happened. Those guys didn't wake up one morning and say "We want to play with so and so".


MJ and Pippen were drafted 3 yrs apart by the Chicago Bulls. Those guys didn't wake up one morning and say "We want to be play with the other". And Rodman had already won 2 titles with the Bad Boy Pistons without MJ&Pip while MJ&Pip had already won 3 titles w/o Rodman before the Worm decided to join them in '95.


McHale, Parish and Bird happened as well.


Shaq wanted to go to LA same reasons as Kareem, but there was no established star player there for both of those guys. Magic just happened for Kareem and Kobe just happened for Shaq. Kobe didn't say "I want to be play with Shaq", Jerry West made sure those 2 things happened simulatenously. One couldn't happen without the other. When Shaq came to LA, he basically said: "Who the hell is this bald skinny 17 yr old kid. Never heard of him".


Fact of the matter is that LeBron just became the best player in the league in '09, came off of two great regular season MVPs with the top record in the league both yrs, and when he was unsuccessful for 2 yrs, he decided to ditch his team, leaving them high and dry at age 25 and decided to join force with a guy who had already won a championship and finals MVP without him.


So just because he chose to play with great players his legacy wouldn't be the same? So his team could not draft a player of Wade's caliber or Magic's caliber or Pippen's caliber he should have wasted one of the greatest and most unique talents this league has ever seen by playing alongside Mo-Williams?

Tell me how does that change the fact that Jordans, Magic, Kareem, Bird etc played with better or similar talents than LeBron has ever had. It's not where he wins it, its if he is winning. All those other guys were lucky enough to be drafted by storied franchises or get traded to those storied franchises or eventually were surrounded by brilliant casts. LeBron's first 7 years were a waste. He gave 8 years of chance to a ballclub to build a great team and that club didn't and now he decides to choose his destiny and if he succeeds he want to penalize him for that? Great rational logic man. No competitive superstar wants to play with non-contenders. Kobe didn't go to Charlotte and he wanted to leave because Lakers didn't have contending teams for just 2/3 years even though the same franchise won him 3 rings previously. In the end of the day people say Shaq has 4 rings, not he left orlando to go to a storied franchise or he won one with Wade. You know you try hard sometimes to be rational but you can't really hide it. Let's say you have 2 pseudo-rational posts and then it's almost guaranteed that the 3rd one will reveal the color.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 10:20 PM
So just because he chose to play with great players his legacy wouldn't be the same? So his team could not draft a player of Wade's caliber or Magic's caliber or Pippen's caliber he should have wasted one of the greatest and most unique talents this league has ever seen by playing alongside Mo-Williams?

Tell me how does that change the fact that Jordans, Magic, Kareem, Bird etc played with better or similar talents than LeBron has ever had. It's not where he wins it, its if he is winning. All those other guys were lucky enough to be drafted by storied franchises or get traded to those storied franchises or eventually were surrounded by brilliant casts. LeBron's first 7 years were a waste. He gave 8 years of chance to a ballclub to build a great team and that club didn't and now he decides to choose his destiny and if he succeeds he want to penalize him for that? Great rational logic man. No competitive superstar wants to play with non-contenders. Kobe didn't go to Charlotte and he wanted to leave because Lakers didn't have contending teams for just 2/3 years even though the same franchise won him 3 rings previously. In the end of the day people say Shaq has 4 rings, not he left orlando to go to a storied franchise or he won one with Wade. You know you try hard sometimes to be rational but you can't really hide it. Let's say you have 2 pseudo-rational posts and then it's almost guaranteed that the 3rd one will reveal the color.


His first 7 yrs were a waste?

Then his 2 all-star mvp awards, 2 league mvp awards, rookie of the yr award, and scoring title shouldn't count then.


He learned how the play the game the right way his first 3 or 4 yrs after coming out of high school (everyone who didn't go to college needs some game polishing, ask kobe, ask kg), then he makes the finals gets swept, then loses to Boston, then has 2 season Mvp yrs. He had just started blossoming as the guy that could consistently lead his team in the regular season. So what if he had some failures in Cleveland, everyone does. MJ failed his first 6 yrs, but you didn't see him join a team with a superstar that had already won it all before. You didn't see him wanting to join the Bad Boy Pistons or Magic's Lakers or Bird's Celtics, he stuck with it, and then that right moment came when Phil took over for Doug Collins, but yet, they still lost that first yr under Phil to Detroit in the ECF. He still stuck with it, and the next yr, the dynasty started.

I assure you, LeBron is so good, sooner or later, that one coaching change or that one or two personnel changes (Shaq just came off the books with his expiring $20M) would have elevated the Cavs to the finals and LeBron would win the title. LeBron really only gave the Cavs management a 2-3 yr window to work their magic. They just fired Mike Brown, on the verge of bringing a guy that had been to the finals 2x before with the Nets in Byron Scott, and would have made a splash in free agency, but free agents of that yr were scared of joining Cleveland because there was no commitment from LeBron himself.


I just think he should have given the coaching chance of M.Brown to B.Scott a chance before he finally closed that chapter of his career. He called it quits too soon.

Swashcuff
05-11-2012, 10:28 PM
As expected... Interested on seeing the voting.

Congrats LeBron.

Gram
05-11-2012, 10:40 PM
Congrats LeBron.

Vote americaspasttim as PSD MVP.

Yankee Clipper
05-11-2012, 10:49 PM
Congrats to LeBron. One hell of a season.

Miami Heat
05-11-2012, 10:54 PM
congrats to lebron, well deserved

NoahH
05-11-2012, 11:09 PM
Yeaaaaaaaaaahhh!!!! Woo! He'll add a ring and a finals MVP to that in a little over a month

Tanakid777
05-11-2012, 11:15 PM
:clap:

kozelkid
05-11-2012, 11:39 PM
Well you Bulls fans have plenty of time to sleep while Lebron is still playing

Why would we be any more busy if the Bulls were still in the playoffs?

Let me guess, you are one of those people who actually considers himself apart of his team's success. :laugh: It was because of YOU, that Philly beat the Bulls. :rolleyes: Congrats.

Either way, well deserved by Lebron. However, as others mentioned, it all means nothing if he can't win it in the big stage.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 11:54 PM
We all new this. Congrats to my ***** LBJ, a personal friend of mine as well. Hope to celebrate this accomplishment with him soon.

metsfan4ever
05-12-2012, 12:08 AM
If he doesn't win a ring this year, he won't give two ***** about the MVP.
.lol at the Kobe groupies on the verge of tears.

TheNumber37
05-12-2012, 12:21 AM
I really hope he never gets a ring.

GOON MUSIC
05-12-2012, 12:24 AM
Should've also won defensive player of the year and this year he's winning the chip

FlashMacker
05-12-2012, 01:08 AM
[QUOTE=JordansBulls;22152746]You talk about what Wilt did in the regular season, which is fine and all, but when talking about the best, what they did in the playoffs and finals is what matters. Wilt getting 55 rebounds against Russell in a meaningless regular season game doesn't matter much does it? Especially when in the finals he averages 11.7 ppg against him one year.

Being the greatest of all time includes everything you've done in your career. He had a 100 point game and he averaged over 50 points a game and over 25 rebounds a game that season. That's crazy. He's the only player to ever score over 4,000 points in the regular season. It's not like he never won a championship. He won 2. The 72 Lakers in the clinching game Wilt had 24 points and 29 rebounds. Those are good numbers.

If being the greatest is what you've done in the playoffs and finals then the greatest player is Bill Russell. What did he do in the playoffs? Oh yeah, he won 11 championships.

This is my opinion. I don't agree that Mike is the greatest.

JordansBulls
05-12-2012, 01:19 AM
Being the greatest of all time includes everything you've done in your career. He had a 100 point game and he averaged over 50 points a game and over 25 rebounds a game that season. That's crazy. He's the only player to ever score over 4,000 points in the regular season. It's not like he never won a championship. He won 2.

If being the greatest is what you've done in the playoffs and finals then the greatest player is Bill Russell. What did he do in the playoffs? Oh yeah, he won 11 championships.

This is my opinion. I don't agree that Mike is the greatest.

And Wilt hasnt done enough.

#1 in PPG
#1 in PER
#1 in win shares per 48
#1 in MVP award shares

#1 in playoff win shares
#1 in playoff win shares per 48
#1 in playoff PPG
#1 in playoff points
#1 in playoff PER

He was also a DPOY, which is pretty rare for a perimeter player and especially a MVP caliber one that carries the offensive load that he did.

9 time All-Defensive first team
10 time All-NBA first

And this is with taking basically a year and a half off during his prime...


5 x MVP
6 x Champ
6 x Finals MVP
10 x scoring leader
3 x steals leader
7 x PER leader
9 x Win share leader


Series with HCA



HCA(50+)/non-50
Jordan: 14-0 / 10-0
Russell: 10-0 / 12-1
Shaq: 11-2 / 12-2
Magic: 9-2 / 20-1
Duncan: 13-4 / 8-0
Jabbar: 11-3 / 23-2
Olajuwon: 4-0 / 5-2
Bird: 10-6 / 14-1
Wilt: 4-3 / 9-2



If Wilt was that great why couldn't he take an organization that never won anything prior to him arriving to a title (an organization that drafted him)?

GOAT candidates gotta have everything. The stats, the accolades, the winning, the efficiency. Also not getting upset in playoff series meaning not losing with HCA. This is mainly where the HCA issue comes in.

MJ = 6 Titles, 6 finals MVP's, 5 League MVP's = 17 Points total
Russell = 11 Titles, 0 finals MVP's, 5 League MVP's = 16 Points Total
Kareem = 6 Titles, 2 finals MVP's, 6 League MVP's = 14 Points Total
Magic = 5 Titles, 3 finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's = 11 Points Total
Duncan = 4 Titles, 3 finals MVP's, 2 League MVP's = 9 Points Total
Shaq = 4 Titles, 3 finals MVP's, 1 League MVP's = 8 Points Total
Bird = 3 Titles, 2 finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's = 8 Points Total
Wilt = 2 Titles, 1 finals MVP's, 4 League MVP's = 7 Points Total
Kobe = 4 Titles, 1 finals MVP's, 1 League MVP's = 6 Points Total
Hakeem = 2 Titles, 2 finals MVP's, 1 League MVP's = 5 Points Total
Moses Malone = 1 Titles, 1 finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's = 5 Points Total



Players that have won league and finals mvp the same year or league mvp and title same year.

MJ (1991, 1992, 1996, 1998)
Russell (1961, 1962, 1963, 1965)
Bird (1984, 1986)
Kareem (1971)
Magic (1987)
Hakeem (1994)
Duncan (2003)
Shaq (2000)
Moses (1983)



By comparison Russell won 27 playoff series in his career while Jordan won 30 playoff series in his career. During Russell's times he basically got 11 rings winning 25 total series during that time. MJ in his 6 title runs had to win 24 series. Why you ask? Well in Russell's time for his first 8 titles he had to win 2 series and his last 3 titles he had to win 3 series. MJ had to win 4 series yearly.
Jordan won each of his as the best player on his team, the same can't be said for Russell as he did not lead his team in PER and Win Shares ever year.

Not to mention the year Russell came is the same year Heinsohn came and guess what it was Heinsohn who won ROY over Russell. It was Heinsohn who made 2nd team all nba while Russell did not and it was Heinsohn who was the allstar as a rookie.

Rings just put you in the discussion for GOAT, but you need more than rings to be GOAT. In basketball IMO you need to be great on both ends, and just having rings in itself doesn't prove that.

The same reason Wayne Gretzky is considered the greatest Hockey player all time despite only having 4 rings. Or should Henri Richard who won 11 Stanley Cups be the GOAT for Hockey?

Babe Ruth won 7 championships in Baseball and is considered the GOAT, however Yogi Berra won 10 championships in Baseball and is not considered the GOAT.

FlashMacker
05-12-2012, 01:29 AM
Dude we can have our own opinions. I'm not the only one who doesn't think MJ is the greatest. And I looked up Wilt's performances against Bill Russell and he had some big games against him. Bill didn't shut him down at all. In the games they played against each other, Wilt averaged over 28 points and 27 rebounds. I think Wilt is the best and you think it's Mike. It's cool, we can have our own opinions.

JordansBulls
05-12-2012, 01:31 AM
Dude we can have our own opinions. I'm not the only one who doesn't think MJ is the greatest. And I looked up Wilt's performances against Bill Russell and he had some big games against him. Bill didn't shut him down at all. In the games they played against each other, Wilt averaged over 28 points and 27 rebounds. I think Wilt is the best and you think it's Mike. It's cool, we can have our own opinions.

From 1966-1969 Wilt had HCA over Russell in '66, '67, '68 and 69 and only won one series. He was 1-3 with HCA vs Russell. The Greatest of all time doesn't lose that many series as the favorite and doesn't average 11.7 ppg in the finals when his teammate averages 38.9 ppg.

Don't you find it ironic that if a guy had great impact why would his numbers just drop more than anyone else from the season to playoffs? Why would he have less 40+ and 30+ point games than West or Baylor guys in his own era when scoring was Wilt's greatest attribute and he played more playoff games than them?

naps
05-12-2012, 01:42 AM
His first 7 yrs were a waste?

Then his 2 all-star mvp awards, 2 league mvp awards, rookie of the yr award, and scoring title shouldn't count then.


Waste as a team. Who were the players he played with again? Can you compare them with what any other top 10 player played with? NO.
His individual accomplishments with those mediocre teams just goes to show how insanely talented he had been.




He learned how the play the game the right way his first 3 or 4 yrs after coming out of high school (everyone who didn't go to college needs some game polishing, ask kobe, ask kg), then he makes the finals gets swept, then loses to Boston, then has 2 season Mvp yrs. He had just started blossoming as the guy that could consistently lead his team in the regular season. So what if he had some failures in Cleveland, everyone does. MJ failed his first 6 yrs, but you didn't see him join a team with a superstar that had already won it all before. You didn't see him wanting to join the Bad Boy Pistons or Magic's Lakers or Bird's Celtics, he stuck with it, and then that right moment came when Phil took over for Doug Collins, but yet, they still lost that first yr under Phil to Detroit in the ECF. He still stuck with it, and the next yr, the dynasty started.

Starting from second year everyone knew Pippen was a special player in the making. Pippen was drafted in Jordan's 3rd or 4th year, IIRC. So it's not like Jordan waited for 7/8 years without knowing the future of the franchise. Cleveland had no promising young talent around LeBron that could potentially create a dynasty. But I would still give MJ his due because he's probably the only one who wasn't in a storied franchise and won so many without a dominant big. That's why he's the GOAT. And I am certain that I already said LeBron had little to no shot at surpassing MJ.
The truth of all truths is that LeBron never had the fortunes of Magic, Bird, Kobe, Jordan, Duncan, etc.


I assure you, LeBron is so good, sooner or later, that one coaching change or that one or two personnel changes (Shaq just came off the books with his expiring $20M) would have elevated the Cavs to the finals and LeBron would win the title. LeBron really only gave the Cavs management a 2-3 yr window to work their magic. They just fired Mike Brown, on the verge of bringing a guy that had been to the finals 2x before with the Nets in Byron Scott, and would have made a splash in free agency, but free agents of that yr were scared of joining Cleveland because there was no commitment from LeBron himself. I just think he should have given the coaching chance of M.Brown to B.Scott a chance before he finally closed that chapter of his career. He called it quits too soon.


No, you can't assure me Byron Scott would make them champions. No player in the history of basketball could win with that roster. NONE. And how do you know LeBron didn't make sure no star player was coming to Cleveland? I mean they had a chance to get Amare for freaking Hickson and they didn't do it. I think he gave 7 years to that team and it's safe to say LeBron would never win in Cleveland with the way the franchise was heading. He left as a FA and picked a team to win. He didn't go for money or fame (New York/Chicago). The guy wanted to win and picked the best situation for himself. I don't know someone could hold that against him. Does Kobe not wanting to play in Charlotte hurt his legacy? Or does his demand of getting traded from the franchise that won him 3 rings just because they sucked for 2/3 years hurt his legacy? He himself many times said he once was close to signing with the Clippers. And we all know Bulls didn't wanna let go off Deng; Kobe wouldn't be a Laker anymore had the Bulls agreed. Lakers pulled of a miracle and Kobe stayed put. That doesn't change the fact that Kobe couldn't wait to win again, right? I am sure it doesn't hurt his legacy but LeBron waited 7 years and then finally left as a freaking FA and it still hurts his legacy. What an amazing logic!

I don't get how any of these negates the fact that almost every top 10 player played with legendary rosters. Everyone played with HOFers. You can't hold that double standard against just one player saying he played with Wade and so it would hurt his legacy. If that was the case Magic shouldn't sniff the top list because he played with someone who has the closest case for the GOAT other than Jordan. Also, the 3rd best player on his team won finals MVP. See how that works?

FlashMacker
05-12-2012, 01:46 AM
From 1966-1969 Wilt had HCA over Russell in '66, '67, '68 and 69 and only won one series. He was 1-3 with HCA vs Russell. The Greatest of all time doesn't lose that many series as the favorite and doesn't average 11.7 ppg in the finals when his teammate averages 38.9 ppg.

Don't you find it ironic that if a guy had great impact why would his numbers just drop more than anyone else from the season to playoffs? Why would he have less 40+ and 30+ point games than West or Baylor guys in his own era when scoring was Wilt's greatest attribute and he played more playoff games than them?

I wouldn't say his team was the favorite during that stretch where the celtics were winning all those championships in a row. coming into 66 and 67 boston was the defending champs and they were winning all those titles so i'd say they were the favorites

miami didnt have homecourt against the bulls last year but most people considered them the favorites

Cfrey
05-12-2012, 01:46 AM
ya wilt is not the best player of all time lol

FlashMacker
05-12-2012, 01:47 AM
ya wilt is not the best player of all time lol

thats your opinion

FlashMacker
05-12-2012, 01:50 AM
This is getting ridiculous. Everyone has an opinion and that's mine. That is all

JLynn943
05-12-2012, 01:51 AM
He deserves it :clap:

LbronFlopaJames
05-12-2012, 02:02 AM
i would like to thank my refs that give me all the calls that other plays dont get and also my ability to get the ball back by floppin all da time!

LbronFlopaJames
05-12-2012, 02:04 AM
bla bla powwwwwwwwwww!! FLOPPA!! i go hard in the paint

naps
05-12-2012, 02:39 AM
^^

Most definitely a dupe. I give it 2 days before gets banned.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-12-2012, 02:45 AM
Well, we can argue back and forth, and it's fine.

That being said, again, congrats to LeBron James for his 3rd career League MVP Award. Well deserved.

kozelkid
05-12-2012, 02:54 AM
This is getting ridiculous. Everyone has an opinion and that's mine. That is all

You're right; everyone has an opinion. However, that doesn't make it correct.

knicks4life33
05-12-2012, 03:36 AM
I think when lebron had that little rant of NOT 1 NOT 2 NOT 3 NOT 4 NOT 5 ..... I think he might have been talking about mvps

Swashcuff
05-12-2012, 08:15 AM
This is getting ridiculous. Everyone has an opinion and that's mine. That is all

Dude that's the lamest cop out around. Why don't you try to actually defend yourself. JB has given hard facts to back his opinion. All you do is throw arbitrary stats out there like Wilt averaging 50 PPG in a season you know if MJ played in a league as high paced as Wilt's he'd averaged 50+ a game as well and if Wilt played at MJ's pace he'd barely average 15 rpgs?

You're not applying any context, not trying to understand what JB is point out to you and then you say everyone has their opinion. Well guess what an opinion is there to be changed and can be changed. That's why we join forums such as these, and if you actually back your opinion at least you can have a solid discussion until then it really matters not what your opinion may or may not be.

KnicksorBust
05-12-2012, 09:52 AM
It's so interesting to be right in the middle of the career of an all-time great. He's already got a phenomenal resume and could end up anywhere from 10-2 depending on rings.

MarkieMark48
05-12-2012, 10:00 AM
very nice, I like

kobebabe
05-12-2012, 10:05 AM
If he doesn't win a ring this year, he won't give two ***** about the MVP.
.lol at the Kobe groupies on the verge of tears.

lol at your signature!!!

kobebabe
05-12-2012, 10:07 AM
Congrats Lebron!
Durant had a good shot at it too. May be a co-MVP could have been a good idea but i think Lebron deserves it more

TheJesus
05-12-2012, 10:11 AM
Rose hasn't won a championship. Is his MVP award meaningless?

TheJesus
05-12-2012, 10:18 AM
Lebron James is Alex Rodriguez. The amount of consistent fan hate he gets is absolutely ridiculous. The majority of it is simply because the guy, as a person, turns many people off. Yet the hatred of some fans is just sad because your hate is probably blinding you from watching one of the top 5 players in NBA history when all is said and done. Yes, better than Kobe barring injuries.

You have a situation where a player like Mark Teixeira signs a lucrative deal, sucks, and no one cares. Yet A-Rod signs a lucrative deal, dominates in the regular season, struggles in the playoffs, and yet everything is meaningless until he wins a ring!

Do some people listen to themselves talk? Lebron James is better than your favorite basketball player. Better than Kobe, better than Rose, better than Dwight, better than Paul, better than Durant, and 100x better than Melo. Get over it. He's not on your team. Appreciate greatness.

jtrinaldi
05-12-2012, 10:22 AM
Congats Lebron, you have tied something that Milwaukee Player has done before (Kareem) whoop D ****, win a title and then we'll talk.

TheJesus
05-12-2012, 10:23 AM
Congats Lebron, you have tied something that Milwaukee Player has done before (Kareem) whoop D ****, win a title and then we'll talk.

Curious, who's your favorite team? Did Lebron eliminate your favorite team?

Davidgta1
05-12-2012, 10:30 AM
He had a hell of a season.

blastmasta26
05-12-2012, 10:43 AM
I'm so conflicted when it comes to LeBron. On one hand, his success is detrimental to my Knicks if they ever hope to compete for a title. On the other hand, the opportunity to witness someone who could end up top 5 when it's all said and done is very compelling. Hopefully LeBron pulls out a title soon, I will say the only valid argument critics may have is that he faltered against Dallas last year.

metsfan4ever
05-12-2012, 10:48 AM
Lebron will have 10 mvps and not 1 damn ring..

Bravo95
05-12-2012, 10:52 AM
Hopefully LeBron pulls out a title soon, I will say the only valid argument critics may have is that he faltered against Dallas last year.
He's gonna need way more than one title to be a near-concensus Top 5 ATG. That's the real winners' circle right there.

The individual accomplishments speak for themselves though.

The Flash
05-12-2012, 10:54 AM
I love it how people say " congrats" and then go on to add that if he doesn't win a ring MVP don't mean a thing.

knicks4life33
05-12-2012, 10:58 AM
I love it how people say " congrats" and then go on to add that if he doesn't win a ring MVP don't mean a thing.

Lebron would say that himself. His goal is to win a championship.

fadahway
05-12-2012, 10:58 AM
i would like to thank my refs that give me all the calls that other plays dont get and also my ability to get the ball back by floppin all da time!

Keep sipping on that haterate brutha.

Raph12
05-12-2012, 12:51 PM
Well deserved, now he needs to get that other MVP; the one presented after the Finals.

JordansBulls
05-12-2012, 01:36 PM
Rose hasn't won a championship. Is his MVP award meaningless?

He has been in the league 4 years.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 01:37 PM
Those pants!!!

ManRam
05-12-2012, 01:41 PM
Congrats on winning the MVP award. Here's the keys to a BRAND NEW KIA!!!


:laugh:

SKINSZARDS
05-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Like Lebron or hate him, he won this award fair and square

ManRam
05-12-2012, 01:45 PM
First place MVP vote-getters:

LeBron (85)
Durant (24)
Paul (6)
Parker (4)
Bryant (2)

Looks actually really good to me...

Wade>You
05-12-2012, 01:48 PM
LeBron: "I think everyone has the heard story about my mom"

Not the story everyone was thinking about.

NYtilIdie
05-12-2012, 01:49 PM
Thank you NBA, I wasn't sure if Lebron could afford a Kia.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 01:49 PM
I've always felt that LeBron's humbleness was genuine. Came into the league as that soft spoken and humble guy...someone who you'd never hear speak because he'd never say anything other than what he should. No sound clips, nothing. I swear I didn't know what he sounded like for a few years. I won't ever say that anyone who thinks it's all forced and that he his a humble guy who knows and respects his roots is wrong...I just disagree. Can he be cocky? Of course. He's the best player in the NBA...hard not to be.

I liked the speech.


Cue: why is he humbled and emotional for winning an MVP award. He shouldn't care!

Htownballa1622
05-12-2012, 01:51 PM
I like what he said."this isn't the award I want. We have a bigger goal. I want a championship."

ManRam
05-12-2012, 01:52 PM
I like what he said."this isn't the award I want. We have a bigger goal. I want a championship."

I think we were all waiting for that...

I liked that speech, a lot. :shrug:

Ebbs
05-12-2012, 01:53 PM
3 MVP's is a monsterous accomplishment. IMO while evaluating players a MVP means more than a ring.

Htownballa1622
05-12-2012, 01:54 PM
i think we were all waiting for that...

I liked that speech, a lot. :shrug:

x2

jetsforever
05-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Lebron is fantastic and the fact that people still hate the Heat and him annoys me. Go Lebron! Win your ring this year!

ManRam
05-12-2012, 01:57 PM
3 MVP's is a monsterous accomplishment. IMO while evaluating players a MVP means more than a ring.

It takes out a lot of non-individual factors. Rings are a team accomplishment. MVPs are much less so. When comparing individual players, why shouldn't you just compare them individually, and take out all the extraneous factors?

Rings do matter...but they are far from the only thing that matters.

Wade>You
05-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Just wanted to say thanks for all the kind, classy comments from PSD. I know a lot of people here are fans of other teams, so it means a lot.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 02:00 PM
Joe Johnson got an MVP vote...

:laugh:

Whoever did that needs to have their voting privileges rescinded ASAP.

Blitzbolt
05-12-2012, 02:00 PM
Congratz The best player by far but what I really like about him is the Defense he is a Top 3 player on both sides offense and Defense.

Also Kevin Love 0 votes hahahaha loser.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 02:02 PM
Congratz The best player by far but what I really like about him is the Defense he is a Top 3 player on both sides offense and Defense.

Also Kevin Love 0 votes hahahaha loser.

He finished 6th though...as he should have.

Swashcuff
05-12-2012, 02:05 PM
Congratz The best player by far but what I really like about him is the Defense he is a Top 3 player on both sides offense and Defense.

Also Kevin Love 0 votes hahahaha loser.

He's a loser for finishing 6th in MVP voting? Damn you're a horrible poster.

Wade>You
05-12-2012, 02:05 PM
@tomhaberstroh
Pat Riley congratulates LeBron, calling him fearless: "A lot of us don't understand what you go through."
Erik Spoelstra reveals his nickname for LeBron: "1-through-5" for his ability to guard all five positions.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 02:05 PM
People's whose voting rights need to be rescinded.

The dudes who voted LeBron at #4 and at #5 (one person each)
Whoever voted for Kobe #1 (does Chris Palmer have a vote...probably)
Whoever voted Rose #3 (only one person voted for him period, and they had him at #3)
Whoever voted for Johnson

JordansBulls
05-12-2012, 02:10 PM
First place MVP vote-getters:

LeBron (85)
Durant (24)
Paul (6)
Parker (4)
Bryant (2)

Looks actually really good to me...

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/12/mvp-release/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

Can't believe Kobe got 2 votes for first place nor that Rose who missed nearly 40% of the season got a 3rd place vote.

D12 fan
05-12-2012, 02:14 PM
Lebron James is without a doubt the best basketball player on the planet,he could win the next 5 MVP's if he really wanted to,the guy is that good,and I hope he finally gets his championship this year.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 02:14 PM
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/12/mvp-release/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

Can't believe Kobe got 2 votes for first place nor that Rose who missed nearly 40% of the season got a 3rd place vote.

Agreed. Those guys are on the list of people who should lose voting rights...

I don't think they should actually lose their rights, that's the whole point of it: having people with different opinions vote on a common thing. But still. Have some integrity.

P-O-Z
05-12-2012, 02:16 PM
Deep down I really feel this is our year. Congrats Lebron.

Blitzbolt
05-12-2012, 02:17 PM
Really lebron got a 5th place both hahahahah!

That guy is a super hater or from Clev.

Ill21
05-12-2012, 02:33 PM
Congrats. Well deserved.

Ebbs
05-12-2012, 02:38 PM
My Ballot would have been:

LeBron
Durant
Paul
Parker
Love

I think

justinnum1
05-12-2012, 02:55 PM
My Ballot would have been:

LeBron
Durant
Paul
Parker
Love

I think

That's what most ballots probably were

D.O.N.
05-12-2012, 03:06 PM
Well deserved 'Bron!

CHANGO
05-12-2012, 03:30 PM
People's whose voting rights need to be rescinded.

The dudes who voted LeBron at #4 and at #5 (one person each)
Whoever voted for Kobe #1 (does Chris Palmer have a vote...probably)
Whoever voted Rose #3 (only one person voted for him period, and they had him at #3)
Whoever voted for Johnson

This... :clap:

xelalex
05-12-2012, 03:54 PM
LeBron plays 3 out of 4qtrs. 3 MVPs in 4yrs. He always off one! Rings>MVP Awards

ManRam
05-12-2012, 04:18 PM
LeBron plays 3 out of 4qtrs. 3 MVPs in 4yrs. He always off one! Rings>MVP Awards

A) Awful joke
B) He's been one of the best (top 2 this year) 4th quarter players for a long time


I think you mean "he misses a few buzzer beaters here and there".

FlashMacker
05-12-2012, 05:10 PM
A) Awful joke
B) He's been one of the best (top 2 this year) 4th quarter players for a long time


I think you mean "he misses a few buzzer beaters here and there".


Well in last years finals he only averaged like 2 points a game in the 4th lol thats why people say he's only good for 3 quarters

ManRam
05-12-2012, 06:41 PM
A) Awful joke
B) He's been one of the best (top 2 this year) 4th quarter players for a long time


I think you mean "he misses a few buzzer beaters here and there".


Well in last years finals he only averaged like 2 points a game in the 4th lol thats why people say he's only good for 3 quarters

I understand the joke. So you understand sample size?

Cano4prez
05-12-2012, 06:53 PM
http://i.imgur.com/hsbEw.png

The Flash
05-12-2012, 06:53 PM
LeBron plays 3 out of 4qtrs. 3 MVPs in 4yrs. He always off one! Rings>MVP Awards

Would you trade Rose for Lebron straight up?

The Flash
05-12-2012, 06:55 PM
http://i.imgur.com/hsbEw.png

:clap:

Nick O
05-12-2012, 07:51 PM
no shock here

theheatles
05-12-2012, 08:55 PM
in the past year, 1 word to describe LeBron would be...maturity

MrFastBreak
05-12-2012, 09:50 PM
Congrats to Lebron but this won't mean a thing if he doesn't win the championship this year.

Yet Kobe won the MVP in the 07-08 season, the same year the Celts beat them 4-2. I guess his MVP didn't mean a thing either.

MrFastBreak
05-12-2012, 09:57 PM
Lebron will have 10 mvps and not 1 damn ring..

Can you see the future?

Cal827
05-12-2012, 10:03 PM
People's whose voting rights need to be rescinded.

The dudes who voted LeBron at #4 and at #5 (one person each)
Whoever voted for Kobe #1 (does Chris Palmer have a vote...probably)
Whoever voted Rose #3 (only one person voted for him period, and they had him at #3)
Whoever voted for Johnson

I can forgive the three others, not that last guy.

That last voter should not only have their voting rights rescinded, they probably should be kidnapped, executed via hitchhiker firing squad on live tv, burned, then set up into space in a rocket.

Johnson with a MVP vote, that's something you would expect to hear from PSD, but not from the actual sport :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

MrFastBreak
05-12-2012, 10:05 PM
Congats Lebron, you have tied something that Milwaukee Player has done before (Kareem) whoop D ****, win a title and then we'll talk.

What if he can't do it by himself? An NBA title takes a team effort. You should know this, considering how much you value a title when evaluating an individual player.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 10:12 PM
What if he can't do it by himself? An NBA title takes a team effort. You should know this, considering how much you value a title when evaluating an individual player.

Some people can't seperate team success from individual success...


LeBron HAS to win titles now. I won't blame him, ever, for not winning in Cleveland. It would be hypocritical because Kobe, Bird, Magic, Jordan or any of the other greats never won with that little. Expecting him to win in Cleveland is expecting the unpreceedented.

But things have changed now. He doesn't win this year, and any criticism he gets is deserved (assuming he doesn't go 40/10/10 shooting 70% or some **** in the playoffs...AKA, assuming it's completely not his fault).

JC_
05-12-2012, 10:33 PM
Some people can't seperate team success from individual success...


LeBron HAS to win titles now. I won't blame him, ever, for not winning in Cleveland. It would be hypocritical because Kobe, Bird, Magic, Jordan or any of the other greats never won with that little. Expecting him to win in Cleveland is expecting the unpreceedented.

But things have changed now. He doesn't win this year, and any criticism he gets is deserved (assuming he doesn't go 40/10/10 shooting 70% or some **** in the playoffs...AKA, assuming it's completely not his fault).

I love his style so far in the playoffs. He's getting the whole team ready by facilitating cause he knows he's going to need everyone when it matters most.

ManRam
05-12-2012, 10:37 PM
I love his style so far in the playoffs. He's getting the whole team ready by facilitating cause he knows he's going to need everyone when it matters most.

I mean. Skip talks about LeBresia or whatever...but he has a case of it too, just in the reverse way. I think people forget how great he was in the playoffs, sans a series or two, in Cleveland. had some of the best individual playoff performances EVER.

He's been great so far. I love Lebron, but he HAS to win this year. End of story. He's finally on a team that is 100% capable of winning it all...and it needs to happen.

MrFastBreak
05-12-2012, 10:39 PM
Some people can't seperate team success from individual success...


LeBron HAS to win titles now. I won't blame him, ever, for not winning in Cleveland. It would be hypocritical because Kobe, Bird, Magic, Jordan or any of the other greats never won with that little. Expecting him to win in Cleveland is expecting the unpreceedented.

But things have changed now. He doesn't win this year, and any criticism he gets is deserved (assuming he doesn't go 40/10/10 shooting 70% or some **** in the playoffs...AKA, assuming it's completely not his fault).

Agreed. I doubt it will be Bron's fault and if his performance is that exemplary, they should have no problem winning, assuming the whole team steps it up. In a postseason where unexpected plays and events are bound to occur, it is hard to predict who is going to advance and who's not (though I have great confidence in the Heat). That's why it's best to just sit back and watch, though most people will jump to conclusions and be quick to open they're mouths when something interesting happens.

godolphins
05-12-2012, 10:49 PM
Yet Kobe won the MVP in the 07-08 season, the same year the Celts beat them 4-2. I guess his MVP didn't mean a thing either.
Um, who's talking about Kobe? I'm talking about Lebron. This season: Regular season MVP without a championship= Failure. Lebron didn't come to Miami to win an MVP, he came to Miami to win a championship.

MrFastBreak
05-12-2012, 11:35 PM
Um, who's talking about Kobe? I'm talking about Lebron.
The Kobe subject is only a tactic to prompt an explanation.


Lebron didn't come to Miami to win an MVP, he came to Miami to win a championship.
Obviously, he said it himself.


This season: Regular season MVP without a championship= Failure.

Yes, but who's to say the failure will be on his part? And you are jumping the gun here, the Heat haven't even played in the conf. finals yet. The hypotheticals are unnecessary as of now.

fadahway
05-13-2012, 01:33 AM
LeBron plays 3 out of 4qtrs. 3 MVPs in 4yrs. He always off one! Rings>MVP Awards

Forgot 2 laugh

3ballbomber
05-13-2012, 05:14 AM
it's easy to up your assists, shooting % etc. when you team up w/ a top 2 (in my opinion) or top 3 player in Dwyane Wade who commands just as much attention.....not to mention having Bosh there to boot. Lebron did go to Miami to make it easier for himself.

congrats Lebron

naps
05-13-2012, 05:51 AM
it's easy to up your assists, shooting % etc. when you team up w/ a top 2 (in my opinion) or top 3 player in Dwyane Wade who commands just as much attention.....not to mention having Bosh there to boot. Lebron did go to Miami to make it easier for himself.

Another desperate hater grasping straws. What's next genius?



congrats Lebron

Don't need to be fake. If you wanna hate, be genuine and do that boldly.

3ballbomber
05-13-2012, 06:15 AM
Another desperate hater grasping straws. What's next genius?



Don't need to be fake. If you wanna hate, be genuine and do that boldly.

what r u a 12 yr old? seriously not every opinion not flowing to the direction of personal views is "hating." you should have ended it with "U MAD?" :facepalm:

Swashcuff
05-13-2012, 07:51 AM
it's easy to up your assists, shooting % etc. when you team up w/ a top 2 (in my opinion) or top 3 player in Dwyane Wade who commands just as much attention.....not to mention having Bosh there to boot. Lebron did go to Miami to make it easier for himself.

congrats Lebron

So what's your excuse for when he averaged more assists in Cleveland? Oh and Bosh plays with arguably the 2 best players in the league but his shooting % has taken a hit. Why didn't his go up like LeBron's.

If you would stop being a hater for 5 minutes you'd realize that no matter who LeBron plays with he's going to get 6+ assists per game (hell if anything Bosh and Wade are the reason he's averaging less assists) and that LeBron made it his business to work on his shot selection, his jumper and his inside game and it has directly correlated with his efficiency. Anyone making the remarks that you just made just shows their lack of knowledge of LeBron's game.

3ballbomber
05-13-2012, 08:21 AM
So what's your excuse for when he averaged more assists in Cleveland? Oh and Bosh plays with arguably the 2 best players in the league but his shooting % has taken a hit. Why didn't his go up like LeBron's.

If you would stop being a hater for 5 minutes you'd realize that no matter who LeBron plays with he's going to get 6+ assists per game (hell if anything Bosh and Wade are the reason he's averaging less assists) and that LeBron made it his business to work on his shot selection, his jumper and his inside game and it has directly correlated with his efficiency. Anyone making the remarks that you just made just shows their lack of knowledge of LeBron's game.
again w/ 'hater' jeez man grow up.


You cats can believe what ever you want. Having another elite player in your team makes things a whole lot easier. i do not give two hoots about knowledge of Lebrons game though i am quite familiar........i have knowledge of the game it self and alot of experience playing it and it's fact having to cover 2 deadly offensive threats opens up shots, chances & opportunities!!

Teams now can't run the risk of doubling either players leaving the other open. I remember in last years playoffs vs Mavs they hard doubled Wade pretty much on the catch on several plays Lebron was left open from the perimeter several times.

Vice versa w/ Wade. i'm used to seeing Wade cloaked w/ 2,3 guys. Teams can no longer do that too often and Wade has far more open lanes, open shot attempts than he ever has in the past due to Lebron getting just as much attention if not more. Lebron never had caliber of players in Wade & Bosh in Cleveland.