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View Full Version : Vogel: "Heat love to flop"



Cfrey
05-11-2012, 02:38 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/7918758/2012-nba-playoffs-indiana-pacers-coach-frank-vogel-says-miami-heat-biggest-floppers-league


"They are the biggest flopping team in the NBA," Vogel told reporters at Thursday's practice in Indianapolis. "It'll be very interesting (to see) how the referees officiate the series and how much flopping they reward."


"Every drive to the basket, they have guys not making a play on the ball, but sliding in front of drivers," Vogel said. "Oftentimes they're falling down even before contact is even being made. It'll be interesting to see how the series is officiated."

LOL

Bigger floppers the clippers or the Heat?? the clippers by far

and Vogel just ruined any chance they had at winning a game. Heat will be like wtf vogel get outta here and sweep them

Also does anyone take into consideration that the Miama Heat just get fouled that much? No doubt they flop but people act like they do it enough to affect the outcome of the game. When LeBron is 6'8 and a freight train he is going to get fouled while going to the basket.

don't blame players for the calls made by officials.. i think thats the biggest thing.. if you guys are sick of NBA officiating then there needs to be a drastic rules change.. good luck with that

Sadds The Gr8
05-11-2012, 02:39 PM
Clippers are #1, with Miami a close 2nd.

PacersForLife
05-11-2012, 02:47 PM
I think the Clippers are the biggest floppers. That being said, the Heat aren't exactly the anti-flop squad either. I think Vogel knows what he is doing and this series should still be competitive, these comments won't change much.

Chronz
05-11-2012, 02:48 PM
Just lost respect for Vogel, of course they dont make plays on the ball, they are all a bunch of midgets compared to other teams in the interior. What they do have is quickness and defensive savvy, they draw legit charges but its right before a playoff series so what else would you expect from the underdog.

I wonder if he ends up retracting those statements the same way Memphis coach did.

sixer04fan
05-11-2012, 02:49 PM
If the Heat play the Clippers in the finals it would be quite hilarious watching all 10 players on the court randomly falling to the ground with no one around them all series long.

GoPacers33
05-11-2012, 02:50 PM
Just lost respect for Vogel, of course they dont make plays on the ball, they are all a bunch of midgets compared to other teams in the interior. What they do have is quickness and defensive savvy, they draw legit charges but its right before a playoff series so what else would you expect from the underdog.

I wonder if he ends up retracting those statements the same way Memphis coach did.

How does this make u lose respect for Vogel?

PacersForLife
05-11-2012, 02:53 PM
Just lost respect for Vogel, of course they dont make plays on the ball, they are all a bunch of midgets compared to other teams in the interior. What they do have is quickness and defensive savvy, they draw legit charges but its right before a playoff series so what else would you expect from the underdog.

I wonder if he ends up retracting those statements the same way Memphis coach did.

I guess you must not respect Phil Jackson or Larry Brown who have done similar things in the past...

kdspurman
05-11-2012, 02:54 PM
Vogel is trying to get the refs early on to not fall for it.

Plus, he's trying to add a little fire to his guys as there's no real headlines in this series or rivalry of any sort. I don't mind it at all. Of course you do run the risk of having Miami come out even more fired up, but that remains to be seen

Shlumpledink
05-11-2012, 02:56 PM
Being undersized doesn't necessitate flopping. Don't be flopping apologists, end flopping so we can watch them play like men

PacersForLife
05-11-2012, 02:56 PM
Vogel is trying to get the refs early on to not fall for it.

Plus, he's trying to add a little fire to his guys as there's no real headlines in this series or rivalry of any sort. I don't mind it at all. Of course you do run the risk of having Miami come out even more fired up, but that remains to be seen

Exactly...

Avenged
05-11-2012, 02:58 PM
Solid strategy. Coaches do this in order to try to get a leverage with the refs, heck George Karl has done it after every loss in the Lakers/Nuggets series.

Geek
05-11-2012, 02:59 PM
Just lost respect for Vogel, of course they dont make plays on the ball, they are all a bunch of midgets compared to other teams in the interior. What they do have is quickness and defensive savvy, they draw legit charges but its right before a playoff series so what else would you expect from the underdog.

I wonder if he ends up retracting those statements the same way Memphis coach did.

You lost respect? Shutup.

Geek
05-11-2012, 03:00 PM
and Vogel just ruined any chance they had at winning a game. Heat will be like wtf vogel get outta here and sweep them

lol.

Chronz
05-11-2012, 03:00 PM
I guess you must not respect Phil Jackson or Larry Brown who have done similar things in the past...
Dont like Larry Brown, and Phil complains when its legit.


How does this make u lose respect for Vogel?
Preemptive excuse that doesnt pass the sniff test.

Jenceman
05-11-2012, 03:01 PM
He's right :shrug:

Chronz
05-11-2012, 03:01 PM
Being undersized doesn't necessitate flopping. Don't be flopping apologists, end flopping so we can watch them play like men
It necessitates charge taking that hes misconstruing as flopping. They all play like men, but you cant expect the smaller team to play a similar style ala "make plays on the ball" as he tried to put it, it would be stupid coaching to try and play the same style.

Chronz
05-11-2012, 03:03 PM
Im 100% positive that if Vogel were playing the Clips he would give them the title, so I dont take his hyperbole as anything other than whining.

PacersForLife
05-11-2012, 03:04 PM
Dont like Larry Brown, and Phil complains when its legit.


Preemptive excuse that doesnt pass the sniff test.

I think this is legit, the Heat do flop a lot...
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3711/bosh.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1087723/bron2.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-flop-2.gif

ManRam
05-11-2012, 03:05 PM
Everyone flops...at least every team has one player at least that embellishes. The Heat do it, for sure. I saw a few flops from Indy in round 1 :shrug:

I don't think talking trash is really in their best interest...but we'll see. Shows weakness to me.

Preemptive ref-whining is always a sign of weakness/fear. Getting the excuses out of the way...

justinnum1
05-11-2012, 03:06 PM
Thank you mr. Vogel.

PacersForLife
05-11-2012, 03:07 PM
Everyone flops...at least every team has one player at least that embellishes. The Heat do it, for sure. I saw a few flops from Indy in round 1 :shrug:

I don't think talking trash is really in their best interest...but we'll see. Shows weakness to me.

Preemptive ref-whining is always a sign of weakness/fear. Getting the excuses out of the way...

I'm not saying I disagree, but who flopped on the Pacers?

sep11ie
05-11-2012, 03:08 PM
If the Heat play the Clippers in the finals it would be quite hilarious watching all 10 players on the court randomly falling to the ground with no one around them all series long.

It would be like watching someone bowl a strike.

PacersForLife
05-11-2012, 03:12 PM
Also, let's not forget Spoelstra's "cage match" comment, he was basically doing the same thing.

Jenceman
05-11-2012, 03:15 PM
I think this is legit, the Heat do flop a lot...
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3711/bosh.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1087723/bron2.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-flop-2.gif

Man that is just ****ing sad that 3 of em are Lebron, one of the most physically imposing dudes in the league. He doesn't need to do that.

Slug3
05-11-2012, 03:17 PM
Also, let's not forget Spoelstra's "cage match" comment, he was basically doing the same thing.

Spo's cage match comment is not even close to the same. He was refering to how physical this series is going to be. He wasnt trying to get the refs attention before even a game is played.

Also he could have used any other play from the Heat to talk about flopping, but he wants to bring up how we take charges. That has been a backbone of our D since the 90's.

Dade County
05-11-2012, 03:19 PM
All this fake hype by the media is not going to change anything; this coach words is not going to change anything ... The HEAT will move on.

He does not want the HEAT to have an easy series, so he has to get into the ref's heads... i don't blame him.

But this is not going to change anything.

Lidz
05-11-2012, 03:21 PM
He's just trying to trick the refs into not making certain calls, I don't think it's trash talkin'. He wants his team to get the benefit of calls instead of the HEAT. It's pretty obvious on account of him sayin' multiple times, "it's going to be interesting on how the refs make calls."

pebloemer
05-11-2012, 03:22 PM
Vogel is trying to get the refs early on to not fall for it.

Plus, he's trying to add a little fire to his guys as there's no real headlines in this series or rivalry of any sort. I don't mind it at all. Of course you do run the risk of having Miami come out even more fired up, but that remains to be seen

Yah, I agree it is probably what he is trying to do (put pressure on officials while firing up his squad), but I don't think you want a "fired up series" against LeBron and the Heat. I think you benefit more by trying to catch them by surprise. I can't see them winning either way, but as a fan I definitely don't mind more fire shown on the court. Could make for a more enjoyable series to watch.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 03:24 PM
I'm not saying I disagree, but who flopped on the Pacers?

Psycho T a few times. Collison at least once. Paul George had an iffy one in game one.


I don't really care, because Baby flops a tremendous amount, as does Hedo. As do probably more. Flopping bothers me, but what bothers me most are people who think only like 5-10 players do it, or only 2-3 teams...

BigCityofDreams
05-11-2012, 03:25 PM
I think this is legit, the Heat do flop a lot...
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3711/bosh.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1087723/bron2.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-flop-2.gif

The one against the Mavs is pretty bad.

smith&wesson
05-11-2012, 03:25 PM
Clippers are #1, with Miami a close 2nd.

this.

nba = where flopping happens. its the new itallian soccer league

pd1dish
05-11-2012, 03:32 PM
countless times i see Wade end up on the ground and yelling like he just got killed and then the replay shows none to minimal contact. i see it with other players around the league (Griffin, Harden and others), but Wade does it the worst. Lebron doesnt necessarily flop, but he creates 100% of the contact, powers through it, and then gets the call.

beasted86
05-11-2012, 03:34 PM
Reading is fundamental. No wonder America is only 17th in education level.

He is talking about the way the team plays defense. The HEAT is #1 in drawing charges... Haslem, Battier, and the teams defensive identity.

meloman1592
05-11-2012, 03:37 PM
Vogel is right though....I dont get why people are mad for what he said. He's trying to get the refs to not fall for the flops early on in the series

beasted86
05-11-2012, 03:37 PM
I wonder if people didn't read it or are just that stupid. I hope its the former.

Sota4Ever
05-11-2012, 03:38 PM
Losing respect for a coach telling the truth is pretty funny. It also isn't whining, tons of coaches do this just to make sure the refs watch the calls. Make sure they don't fall for the lame flopping.

Also the OP has to be the biggest lebron lover, and closet heat fan.

D-Leethal
05-11-2012, 03:38 PM
I think the Heat are fantastic at drawing charges. There weakside rotations are never late. Nearly every drawn charge is a flop in some sense. But if you take it in the chest you should fall backwards, you don't want to create resistance to a freight train coming at you, and you also will never get the call if you don't eat the charge and fall on your ***.

The Heat are flop masters for the way 6'8 260 pound musclemen oversell minimal contact from dudes half their size that shouldn't even be called, not because they fall before a guy plows through them full steam ahead in a charge.

Lebron is one of the most physically imposing and physically stacked athletes in the world and he flops around from contact like he was tossed by Shaq. Its a freakin' joke. There is not one other sport in the world where superstar athletes go to lows like that just to get a call and give themselves an advantage.

Its a smart move by Vogel. He is letting the basketball world and the refs know in advance to keep a keen eye on these guys. He doesn't want to see a 33-5 FT disparity like he saw in game 1 of the first round series.

Sota4Ever
05-11-2012, 03:39 PM
I wonder if people didn't read it or are just that stupid. I hope its the former.

Calling people stupid makes you look stupid.

Rivera
05-11-2012, 03:39 PM
its not a bad strategy to put that in the refs mind....indiana needs to muck this series up and play physical to have any chance i mean we all saw how lebron got hit by a mac truck when he ran into tyson chandler

but the heat will probably use this for motivation and they will win by 25 game 1 ...... game 2 will be interesting though

kozelkid
05-11-2012, 03:41 PM
Just lost respect for Vogel, of course they dont make plays on the ball, they are all a bunch of midgets compared to other teams in the interior. What they do have is quickness and defensive savvy, they draw legit charges but its right before a playoff series so what else would you expect from the underdog.

I wonder if he ends up retracting those statements the same way Memphis coach did.

Why?

While I hate Vogel given the rivalry the Bulls have with the Pacers, this is a total Phil move in hopes of pressuring the officials to be more strict against flopping. Smart move, IMO.

JasonJohnHorn
05-11-2012, 03:41 PM
Vogel is just pulling a Phil Jackson. He's knows, and even Heat fans have to admit, this team get a LOT of calls for flopping. Vogel is just pointing it before the series starts so that the officials have that in the back of their heads.

I saw somebdoy get called for a technical for a flop this year, I hope to see it again in this series, because this flopping $#!T is ruining the game.

effen5
05-11-2012, 03:43 PM
Nothing wrong with what Vogel said, I think it takes the pressure off the players and puts the spot light on vogel

Big Zo
05-11-2012, 03:43 PM
He's complaining about officiating before the series starts because he knows they don't stand a chance.

sammid21
05-11-2012, 03:46 PM
Reading is fundamental. No wonder America is only 17th in education level.

He is talking about the way the team plays defense. The HEAT is #1 in drawing charges... Haslem, Battier, and the teams defensive identity.

Really dude? if the situation was reversed you would be on Vogels side, but since its something against your team you call everyone stupid. Look in the mirror dude

The reason america is failing is because of douchebags getting what they want now without wanting to suffer the consiquences. Instead of working hard they want to win right now ala Lebron..... ok now call me a hater and many other insults because you want to protect your team

teddygreen17
05-11-2012, 03:46 PM
From what I seen against the Knicks, how can you argue...Lebron is the MVP and should also get an Academy Award for his role in "Taking my flops to South Beach".

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 03:48 PM
Just lost respect for Vogel, of course they dont make plays on the ball, they are all a bunch of midgets compared to other teams in the interior. What they do have is quickness and defensive savvy, they draw legit charges but its right before a playoff series so what else would you expect from the underdog.

I wonder if he ends up retracting those statements the same way Memphis coach did.

Losing respect over such a small issue? Oh dear, you're pretty soft if that's true. If Vogel's comment made you lose respect for him, I wonder how you reacted in 04 when Popovich made that moronic comment on how Derek Fisher's 0.4 shot against them was as crushing and tragic as the war in Iraq that was going on at that time, or when D-wade attributed to the Heat losing to begin the 2010-2011 season as The 9/11 thing all over again. Oh but wait, I forgot, you were and always have been a Heat and Lebron apologist, so anything said or done against them is looked upon as sacrilegious.

WadeKobe
05-11-2012, 03:50 PM
I'm tired of this nonsense. They all flop, a lot. It is a rampant problem in the NBA, and there is no team that does it significantly more than others. I jsut don't buy it. The Mavs last year were every bit as bad if not worse than the Heat, but they didn't get crap for it. Why? Because their floppers were Marion, Stevenson, Cardinal, and Barea.... not stars.

The teams that get crap do so because they have stars that are flopping. Everyone flops, and they're all equal offenders. It needs to stop all thew ay around, I'm sick of it jsut as much as anyone else. However, this whole "[Team x] is the worst flopping team" is just nonsense and needs to stop. It is just another avenue to hate players/teams.

D-Leethal
05-11-2012, 03:53 PM
I think this is legit, the Heat do flop a lot...
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3711/bosh.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1087723/bron2.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-flop-2.gif

Its funny if you type heat flops on google you get a book of gifs. That one against the Mavs is absolutely disgraceful. The league is getting pussified to the point of no return. Between the flops and the ridiculous touch foul calls (many are a result of selling little to 0 contact aka flopping) its just out of control and borderline unwatchable.

It sucks to have the best players in the world leading the charge. Players need to take a stand and start calling out their fellow NBA brethren. CWebb was a good start but I think we need someone to call out their own teammate or a major voice like Kobe to get people to start checking themselves.

A little embarassment goes a long way. We continue to let them get away with this gargbage and basically reward them its not going anywhere. Someone needs to call out the floppers on live TV or in a major post game presser.

CunninghamJrIII
05-11-2012, 03:53 PM
don't blame players for the calls made by officials.. i think thats the biggest thing..
can't blame players for the call, but you can blame them for flopping in the first place.

Yeah I know, they're just trying to win.
Admirable :cool:

I do get it, when there's some contact and a possible foul, sure maybe exaggerate your reaction a little bit to bait a call. Not so tough to watch. ie, Battier's "flop" on Amare the other night. Amare went in with the shoulder/elbow and initiated contact, Battier went down fairly easy; but that's not anything new to NBA. Pretty much expect those to be called because the contact was initiated by the offense.

Where it's getting bad is when a player isn't even touched and he reacts like his nose was just broken or he was just hit by a bus. Those are the ones that are tough to watch.

PleaseBeNice
05-11-2012, 03:54 PM
Clippers are easily taking the cake as biggest floppers

beasted86
05-11-2012, 03:54 PM
Really dude? if the situation was reversed you would be on Vogels side, but since its something against your team you call everyone stupid. Look in the mirror dude

The reason america is failing is because of douchebags getting what they want now without wanting to suffer the consiquences. Instead of working hard they want to win right now ala Lebron..... ok now call me a hater and many other insults because you want to protect your team

What? Calm down cool guy.

I could care less what anyone's opinion is on the matter, as long as it's a relevant opinion. Many of the posts (including the OPs) are off-topic talking about the HEAT drawing defensive fouls when Vogul's comments were about Miami drawing offensive fouls.

Either go read the article again, or go read through the topic's comments again. Either way, you didn't read which is exactly what my post was about.

raiderfaninTX
05-11-2012, 03:56 PM
Someone may want to let the pacers coach know that the heat are not missing their best player like other teams were

JasonJohnHorn
05-11-2012, 03:56 PM
You know how people respond: Then don't watch. Well that is what I do whent he Heat play. I can stand watching a guy the size of LBJ get lightly tapped by another player and then watching him fly across the court. I'm tired of watching it, so I tune out those games. I've seen a couple of Clippers games this season, and i didn't notice a lot of flopping, I've seen three or four Heat games, and EVERY time I roll my eyes at least six times. The way Wade pretends like he's getting shoved by the guy bringing the ball up and falls back, only to jump right back on defence when he doesn't get the call. It's so premeditated, it just spoils the game. These guys are the most talented players in the league. The couldn't win on their own, so they teamed up, then they still couldn't win so they start flopping. I watched a lot of LBJ games in Cleveland, and he NEVER flopped like this. It's painful to watch this $#!T. If I was an official I would just hand out a tech every time some guy flopped like that. Hand out two techs to the same player in one game, I got a week's pay that says he'll stop flopping the rest of the series.

Just play basketball for god's sake. LBJ and Wade both look like spoiled babies when they pull thei $#!T. They should bring their A game and leave on the floor, win or lose, and quit pretending like they can get knocked down by a feather.

Fawk I hate watching them play.

PleaseBeNice
05-11-2012, 03:58 PM
I'm tired of this nonsense. They all flop, a lot. It is a rampant problem in the NBA, and there is no team that does it significantly more than others. I jsut don't buy it. The Mavs last year were every bit as bad if not worse than the Heat, but they didn't get crap for it. Why? Because their floppers were Marion, Stevenson, Cardinal, and Barea.... not stars.

The teams that get crap do so because they have stars that are flopping. Everyone flops, and they're all equal offenders. It needs to stop all thew ay around, I'm sick of it jsut as much as anyone else. However, this whole "[Team x] is the worst flopping team" is just nonsense and needs to stop. It is just another avenue to hate players/teams.

The Clippers beg to differ

D-Leethal
05-11-2012, 03:59 PM
I'm tired of this nonsense. They all flop, a lot. It is a rampant problem in the NBA, and there is no team that does it significantly more than others. I jsut don't buy it. The Mavs last year were every bit as bad if not worse than the Heat, but they didn't get crap for it. Why? Because their floppers were Marion, Stevenson, Cardinal, and Barea.... not stars.

The teams that get crap do so because they have stars that are flopping. Everyone flops, and they're all equal offenders. It needs to stop all thew ay around, I'm sick of it jsut as much as anyone else. However, this whole "[Team x] is the worst flopping team" is just nonsense and needs to stop. It is just another avenue to hate players/teams.

Its clear that there are certain teams where flopping is part of the gameplan, and clear that certain players do it on their own. Its clear flopping is a major part of Miami's gameplan, and I would not be surprised if they actually take time to master the art in practice.

And I think the main beef with Miami and LAC is that they have the best players in the world and some of the most physically imposing players in the NBA leading the charge. Its pure embarassment. JJ Barea a 5'6 dude going into the paint and at the rim with 7 footers is not the same as LeBron catching a handcheck from JR Smith and diving out of bounds, or getting screened and grabbing his neck like he just broke his spine. Its a joke. This is a guy whos literally big, strong, and fast enough to be an NFL tight end. He has an unparalleled level of strength and speed. And hes out there diving all over the ground and faking injuries anytime somebody lays a finger on him.

The best players in the league lead the charge for the rest of the players whether they like it or not. LeBron is out there flopping his *** off, joe schmoe trying to get a contract or make a team is going to follow suit.

nate2usmc
05-11-2012, 04:02 PM
if the heat play the clippers in the finals it would be quite hilarious watching all 10 players on the court randomly falling to the ground with no one around them all series long.


it would be like watching someone bowl a strike.

lmao

Chronz
05-11-2012, 04:04 PM
I think this is legit, the Heat do flop a lot...
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3711/bosh.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1087723/bron2.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-flop-2.gif

Can you prove that? Or is this your idea of empirical evidence?

CostanzaNumba0
05-11-2012, 04:04 PM
he's right the heat flop a ton

5ass
05-11-2012, 04:05 PM
people should just stop *****ing about flopping. If it bothers u that much u can flop too.

Does Vogel not see how dirty Hansborough's play is? Everything is fair game in the NBA. You do whatever to win. You want to eliminate flopping you should also eliminate all the dirty players in the game, hey we have to "preserve the integrity of the game" right?.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:05 PM
Losing respect for a coach telling the truth is pretty funny. It also isn't whining, tons of coaches do this just to make sure the refs watch the calls. Make sure they don't fall for the lame flopping.

Also the OP has to be the biggest lebron lover, and closet heat fan.

call me out for false information nice bro!!!

gtfo you know im a wolves fan over anything but they are nowhere to be found right now so yeah I'll root for my favorite player not on the wolves.. kill me for it bro

Chronz
05-11-2012, 04:06 PM
Reading is fundamental. No wonder America is only 17th in education level.

He is talking about the way the team plays defense. The HEAT is #1 in drawing charges... Haslem, Battier, and the teams defensive identity.

Whos confused?

Chronz
05-11-2012, 04:08 PM
Why?

While I hate Vogel given the rivalry the Bulls have with the Pacers, this is a total Phil move in hopes of pressuring the officials to be more strict against flopping. Smart move, IMO.

I dont recall Phil ever lying. And I love Vogel, just lost some respect for his preemptive whining.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:09 PM
some of you are wondering why some people have a problem with Vogel saying this and its because how are you going to complain about officiating before the series even starts?!! he's basically admitting that the only way the Pacers have a chance at winning the series is by getting favorable calls all the time LOL.. thats just pathetic.. how about he prepares his team to play the hardest they've ever played in their life instead of basically throwing in the towel because by making the statements he did he basically already has admitted defeat


so great coach

topdog
05-11-2012, 04:10 PM
LOL

Bigger floppers the clippers or the Heat?? the clippers by far

and Vogel just ruined any chance they had at winning a game. Heat will be like wtf vogel get outta here and sweep them

Also does anyone take into consideration that the Miama Heat just get fouled that much? No doubt they flop but people act like they do it enough to affect the outcome of the game. When LeBron is 6'8 and a freight train he is going to get fouled while going to the basket.

don't blame players for the calls made by officials.. i think thats the biggest thing.. if you guys are sick of NBA officiating then there needs to be a drastic rules change.. good luck with that

1. Defensively, the Heat flop before contact. Mike Miller stands out in my mind at the moment. The offensive player actually stopped at a point I would consider a no-call but Miller was already falling over from I guess the breeze :rolleyes:

2. Lebron and Wade flop all the time on drives. I am so sick of them getting legitimately stripped but flailing like a fish and getting a call.

You call Lebron a "freight train" and yet when he plows through pedestrians it is a foul on them and has been since his 1st NBA game. That is not how the rule is supposed to be called nor how it is called for most other players.

Chronz
05-11-2012, 04:11 PM
Losing respect over such a small issue? Oh dear, you're pretty soft if that's true. If Vogel's comment made you lose respect for him, I wonder how you reacted in 04 when Popovich made that moronic comment on how Derek Fisher's 0.4 shot against them was as crushing and tragic as the war in Iraq that was going on at that time, or when D-wade attributed to the Heat losing to begin the 2010-2011 season as The 9/11 thing all over again. Oh but wait, I forgot, you were and always have been a Heat and Lebron apologist, so anything said or done against them is looked upon as sacrilegious.
Where did I say I lost ALL respect for Vogel? Yes Vogels comments made me lose some respect for him, its exaggerating/whining/hyperbole.

Pop is prolly trolling and your not smart enough to pick up on it.

What about Wade? Your not making any sense, do you have any proof that I agreed with his statement or is your anti heat agenda getting so desperate your willing to put words in my mouth?

topdog
05-11-2012, 04:13 PM
some of you are wondering why some people have a problem with Vogel saying this and its because how are you going to complain about officiating before the series even starts?!! he's basically admitting that the only way the Pacers have a chance at winning the series is by getting favorable calls all the time LOL.. thats just pathetic.. how about he prepares his team to play the hardest they've ever played in their life instead of basically throwing in the towel because by making the statements he did he basically already has admitted defeat


so great coach

He is not saying this at all. He's doing a little Phil Jackson "let's set the officiating tone for the series." Let's get a little media attention and see if we can put it in the back of the refs' minds.

What Vogel may be saying is that he can't afford to have any of his players be benched by cheap fouls because Indiana has a 5-man dynamic vs. a big 2 or 3.

WadeKobe
05-11-2012, 04:13 PM
Its clear that there are certain teams where flopping is part of the gameplan, and clear that certain players do it on their own. Its clear flopping is a major part of Miami's gameplan, and I would not be surprised if they actually take time to master the art in practice.

I am confident that if someone actually compiled the data, and this statement was tested against the data, this statement would come back as silly and false.


And I think the main beef with Miami and LAC is that they have the best players in the world and some of the most physically imposing players in the NBA leading the charge. Its pure embarassment. JJ Barea a 5'6 dude going into the paint and at the rim with 7 footers is not the same as LeBron catching a handcheck from JR Smith and diving out of bounds, or getting screened and grabbing his neck like he just broke his spine. Its a joke. This is a guy whos literally big, strong, and fast enough to be an NFL tight end. He has an unparalleled level of strength and speed. And hes out there diving all over the ground and faking injuries anytime somebody lays a finger on him.


I'm not talking about a 5'6'' guy getting legitimately hit. I'm talking about him flopping. Flopping is flopping whether you're LeBron James or Muggsy Bogues. The double standard needs to stop.



The best players in the league lead the charge for the rest of the players whether they like it or not. LeBron is out there flopping his *** off, joe schmoe trying to get a contract or make a team is going to follow suit.

I completely agree with this. So lets have that conversation? Let's talk about flopping in context.

(1) European players who were accustomed to flopping from football brought it over with them
(2) Arvidas Sabonis and Vlade Divac were the worst of all time, and Dirk Nowitzki, Manu Ginobili, and Tony Parker soon followed suit.
(3) Other star players caught on and started using it
(4) Now everyone does it, every game, and it is irritating and disgusting when anyone does it.... LeBron James or Joe Schmoe.

If we have a problem with stars doing it because it legimtates it for everyone and perpetuates the problem, let's say that. That's an important, good, constructive conversation.

Let's stop singling out star players on good teams and saying that some teams are so much worse than others when this really isn't the case. This is an obfuscating, unconstructive conversation which is really nothing more than trying to hate on successful teams even more than we already do.

If you want to actively cheer against the Miami Heat then do so. If you want flopping in the NBA to stop, advocate for that. People need to stop conflating the two issues. Dishonesty seems to be the standard operating procedure towards the end of hating successful teams/players. What is worse, this only seems to be the case among NBA fans, and not among any other major sport. I'm simply tired of it.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:18 PM
You call Lebron a "freight train" and yet when he plows through pedestrians it is a foul on them and has been since his 1st NBA game. That is not how the rule is supposed to be called nor how it is called for most other players.

What are you talking about? When somebody goes into the lane and gets hacked continuously its a foul every time.... I HATE how lebron gets fouled every time he drives to the hoop but thats the GAME... those are the RULES.. if you are getting swung at every time it is a foul and its because hes so physically gifted that he's able to do that and get to the line more and make people think he gets these phantom calls.. its just funny.. everyone gets a call that goes their way.. some more than others but Lebron and players that attack the hoop get fouled its just that simple

RiLoc
05-11-2012, 04:21 PM
Everyone flops in the NBA.

As a fan it's lame and I wish the NBA would start preventing it. The more people can use slow motion on DVR, the more obvious it is and the more it hurts the game.

From a player's perspective, current officiating and rules make it viable tactic and players will take every advantage they can get.

Erik Spoelstra on Pacers coach Frank Vogel's flop comments: "We could care less." (https://twitter.com/#!/tomhaberstroh/status/201016895493767171)

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 04:24 PM
some of you are wondering why some people have a problem with Vogel saying this and its because how are you going to complain about officiating before the series even starts?!! he's basically admitting that the only way the Pacers have a chance at winning the series is by getting favorable calls all the time LOL.. thats just pathetic.. how about he prepares his team to play the hardest they've ever played in their life instead of basically throwing in the towel because by making the statements he did he basically already has admitted defeat


so great coach

Oh you naive, foolish little boy u, Vogel is pulling a PJAX. Pacers can beat Miami if the refs allow them to play a little defense.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Everyone flops in the NBA.

As a fan it's lame and I wish the NBA would start preventing it. The more people can use slow motion on DVR, the more obvious it is and the more it hurts the game.

From a player's perspective, current officiating and rules make it viable tactic and players will take every advantage they can get.

Erik Spoelstra on Pacers coach Frank Vogel's flop comments: "We could care less." (https://twitter.com/#!/tomhaberstroh/status/201016895493767171)
We could care less is just another way of saying 'Ur right, but I don't have enough ammo to fire back or defend my team, so let's please just end the issue here, ok?'

LRizzle
05-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Every team flops or has players that flop. Sure some do it more than others. Some teams win more than others. Some teams play faster or slower, different styles that influences what's expected from you (getting charges, going for blocks, watching people drive by you).

I'm all for changes in the offseason where if a team submits a complaint to the league, that it gets reviewed, and if the league agrees, they fine the player, and repetitive offenders should be suspended a game.

And I haven't decided if what Vogel did was a very bad mistake that will pump up the Heat players, or smart to call attention to something. We'll see.

Ezio
05-11-2012, 04:29 PM
Man Heat vs Pacers is going to be better than 6ers vs C's.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:30 PM
Oh you naive, foolish little boy u, Vogel is pulling a PJAX. Pacers can beat Miami if the refs allow them to play a little defense.

lolololol

kozelkid
05-11-2012, 04:32 PM
Why?

While I hate Vogel given the rivalry the Bulls have with the Pacers, this is a total Phil move in hopes of pressuring the officials to be more strict against flopping. Smart move, IMO.

I dont recall Phil ever lying. And I love Vogel, just lost some respect for his preemptive whining.

So do you honestly believe that Steve Nash travels too much?

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:32 PM
Everyone flops in the NBA.

As a fan it's lame and I wish the NBA would start preventing it. The more people can use slow motion on DVR, the more obvious it is and the more it hurts the game.

From a player's perspective, current officiating and rules make it viable tactic and players will take every advantage they can get.

Erik Spoelstra on Pacers coach Frank Vogel's flop comments: "We could care less." (https://twitter.com/#!/tomhaberstroh/status/201016895493767171)

so you're saying that spo said they actually could care less... so they do care a little bit lol

5ass
05-11-2012, 04:34 PM
Oh you naive, foolish little boy u, Vogel is pulling a PJAX. Pacers can beat Miami if the refs allow them to play a little defense.

IMO i dont think that works anymore. Now its just too much complaining that the refs will most probably ignore.

topdog
05-11-2012, 04:35 PM
What are you talking about? When somebody goes into the lane and gets hacked continuously its a foul every time.... I HATE how lebron gets fouled every time he drives to the hoop but thats the GAME... those are the RULES.. if you are getting swung at every time it is a foul and its because hes so physically gifted that he's able to do that and get to the line more and make people think he gets these phantom calls.. its just funny.. everyone gets a call that goes their way.. some more than others but Lebron and players that attack the hoop get fouled its just that simple

I'm talking about charges vs. blocking fouls. Lebron runs people over (when they have the position) and the refs call it blocking. The defensive player has a right to that space.

I think it's funny that I just went to check out a chat on another site with so-called "basketball experts" and his response to 2 different flopping questions stated that everyone does it, but that Lebron and Wade are especially bad on offense and that Lebron is always jerking his head at any contact.

LRizzle
05-11-2012, 04:36 PM
And another thing, everyone realizes and sees Wade and LeBron flopping because they want to see them flop and they look for it. Because they want to hate on them. Anyone that knows the Heat and watches them all the time would know that Chalmers is actually the biggest flopper and falls back multiple times a game during contact. But no one cares because it's Chalmers. But LeBron has one play in a whole game (given it's mighty dramatic) and that's all anyone can remember, because they all wanna hate on him. I get how it works, same way with how I deal with Brady or Rose, players I hate. Doesn't mean your comments are accurate. Unless they get some data and study all this, this is all just blind speculation and hatred.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:37 PM
legit the dude is a basketball expert.. how can i get that title

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:38 PM
And another thing, everyone realizes and sees Wade and LeBron flopping because they want to see them flop and they look for it. Because they want to hate on them. Anyone that knows the Heat and watches them all the time would know that Chalmers is actually the biggest flopper and falls back multiple times a game during contact. But no one cares because it's Chalmers. But LeBron has one play in a whole game (given it's mighty dramatic) and that's all anyone can remember, because they all wanna hate on him. I get how it works, same way with how I deal with Brady or Rose, players I hate. Doesn't mean your comments are accurate. Unless they get some data and study all this, this is all just blind speculation and hatred.

This.

/thread

topdog
05-11-2012, 04:40 PM
This.

/thread

Why would you close your own thread? If you think the answer is so simple and obvious why even make a thread? :eyebrow:

Dade County
05-11-2012, 04:41 PM
Oh you naive, foolish little boy u, Vogel is pulling a PJAX. Pacers can beat Miami if the refs allow them to play a little defense.

Beat them in what? What about Miami "D"?

Chronz
05-11-2012, 04:43 PM
So do you honestly believe that Steve Nash travels too much?
If Phil believes he carries then I believe it. LOL ok thats alot of posturing but I dont take it as negatively as the hyperbole Vogel used. Phil had more credence to his opinion than Vogel. Nash actually does palm alot, the Heat are not the most flopping team in the league, we are.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:44 PM
Why would you close your own thread? If you think the answer is so simple and obvious why even make a thread? :eyebrow:

lol im not closing the thread.. im just making a point that that comment he made was perfectly accurate and only people who have a sense of realism in this world can notice that

is lebron or wade the biggest flopper in the NBA ? no not at all but the constant scrutiny from the media somehow makes these guys the bad guys or the floppers lol.. its people that actually understand basketball who realize the amount of hate they get for things everyone else does lol

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 04:45 PM
and by the way people we are talking about vogel who is some no name that opened up his mouth for no reason

kubernetes
05-11-2012, 04:46 PM
Let's stop singling out star players on good teams and saying that some teams are so much worse than others when this really isn't the case.

It's natural because star players are widely regarded as (unfairly) getting more calls to begin with. So when a star flops it seems even worse to the average fan. Miami has a lot of stars, including the biggest one, so it's natural.

Personally I think Wade is a much bigger flopper than Lebron. It seems like 90% of his jumpshots end up with him falling on the ground, whether he's actually touched or not.

sammid21
05-11-2012, 04:52 PM
This.

/thread

Yea close thread because someone is backing up LBJ, Fact is, everyone rags on him because the guy is huge and flops and gets talked about with the like of Jordan, a player that never had to flop, he just won on skill, something that Lebron can do but chooses to flop

Lakersfan2483
05-11-2012, 04:53 PM
Vogel taking a page out of the Phil Jackson/Pat Riley school of coaching and planting seeds before the series starts. Good strategy.

Metswillprevail
05-11-2012, 04:56 PM
in b4 heat sweep indiana

topdog
05-11-2012, 05:01 PM
lol im not closing the thread.. im just making a point that that comment he made was perfectly accurate and only people who have a sense of realism in this world can notice that

is lebron or wade the biggest flopper in the NBA ? no not at all but the constant scrutiny from the media somehow makes these guys the bad guys or the floppers lol.. its people that actually understand basketball who realize the amount of hate they get for things everyone else does lol

I know you can't close the thread I just think it's a stupid PSD cliche to post "/thread"

Aren't they the biggest floppers in the NBA? Considering that they play around 40 minutes a game and have the ball the majority of the time I would argue that they very well could be.

We both know J.J. Barea is a terrible flopper but he doesn't get as many minutes and the refs usually only call the 1st one before realizing he just can't play defense.



and by the way people we are talking about vogel who is some no name that opened up his mouth for no reason

Vogel has far more of a right than any of us to comment on an NBA team imo. A real NBA fan (throwing that out there because of these ridiculous comments you are making) would know that Vogel turned the Pacers into a playoff team last year after looking terrible under Jim O'brien and has brought them back this year even better with a balanced attack.

Btw, who was Tom Thibideau prior to the Celtics' run? Anyway, he's doing his due diligence to set up the upcoming series against a team of superstars where he cannot hope to get close to the same number of calls with his 5 man balanced attack as a big 3 of superstars.

The reason he opened his mouth^

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 05:04 PM
and by the way people we are talking about vogel who is some no name that opened up his mouth for no reason

Actually, Spo is a no-name as well. He's just a result of the loins of Pat Riley and Erik Estrada.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 05:07 PM
I know you can't close the thread I just think it's a stupid PSD cliche to post "/thread"

Aren't they the biggest floppers in the NBA? Considering that they play around 40 minutes a game and have the ball the majority of the time I would argue that they very well could be.

We both know J.J. Barea is a terrible flopper but he doesn't get as many minutes and the refs usually only call the 1st one before realizing he just can't play defense.




Vogel has far more of a right than any of us to comment on an NBA team imo. A real NBA fan (throwing that out there because of these ridiculous comments you are making) would know that Vogel turned the Pacers into a playoff team last year after looking terrible under Jim O'brien and has brought them back this year even better with a balanced attack.

Btw, who was Tom Thibideau prior to the Celtics' run? Anyway, he's doing his due diligence to set up the upcoming series against a team of superstars where he cannot hope to get close to the same number of calls with his 5 man balanced attack as a big 3 of superstars.

The reason he opened his mouth^

common... everything i say does not need to be taken so literally.. yes I know who vogel is.. i know he led them to the playoffs last year.. he's a good coach and this whole thread really turned into something it shouldn't have.. i just disagree with his comments and dont respect people who comment about the referees..

and yes jj barea is a bigger flopper than lebron.. minutes have nothing to do with it unless you are actually trying to compare the number of flops they had in a season which is not even a real statistic lmao

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 05:08 PM
Actually, Spo is a no-name as well. He's just a result of the loins of Pat Riley and Erik Estrada.

spo is a no-name and a ****ing idiot who has no business being the coach of two superstars..

so whats your point??

Punk
05-11-2012, 05:13 PM
The Heat love to flop, they get all the calls.

Want proof?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWYgaJAFLFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihuOrQHSjWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h60uviwKC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBFo-34hRdM

Video don't lie. The Heat are the biggest floppers in the NBA and the only team who gets rewarded by the refs

See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ZuRWGeJJ0

It's a disgrace to basketball but If I'm a Heat fan just own up to it. It's a fact. Plenty of teams have floppers and admit it.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 05:17 PM
Wait a second, can I understand something. Who is saying the Heat don't flop? Please someone point it out.

Everyone gets that the Heat flop just like every other team in the league.. What I'm saying is they don't flop the most in the league.. And so the punk gives 5 videos (some that aren't even flops) and supposedly thats proof of what ? Lol just kinda confused

nate2usmc
05-11-2012, 05:18 PM
The Heat love to flop, they get all the calls.

Want proof?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWYgaJAFLFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihuOrQHSjWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h60uviwKC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBFo-34hRdM

Video don't lie. The Heat are the biggest floppers in the NBA and the only team who gets rewarded by the refs

See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ZuRWGeJJ0

It's a disgrace to basketball but If I'm a Heat fan just own up to it. It's a fact. Plenty of teams have floppers and admit it.

Uh oh :hide:

topdog
05-11-2012, 05:19 PM
common... everything i say does not need to be taken so literally.. yes I know who vogel is.. i know he led them to the playoffs last year.. he's a good coach and this whole thread really turned into something it shouldn't have.. i just disagree with his comments and dont respect people who comment about the referees..

and yes jj barea is a bigger flopper than lebron.. minutes have nothing to do with it unless you are actually trying to compare the number of flops they had in a season which is not even a real statistic lmao

This type of backtracking is "common" on PSD. People try to talk big and make a rhetorical strategy their argument.

What is truly intended to be argued is unclear because of your extremely biased 1st post. My simple reply is that Lebron and Wade flop plenty and that Vogel is trying to coach off the court and work on a clear Miami advantage.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 05:20 PM
Uh oh :hide:

uh oh?? lol are you acting like that was some highly analytical post with tremendous insight into the art of heat flopping?

that post proved nothing to anyone

knicksfan42
05-11-2012, 05:22 PM
Vogel is right. I remember that disgusting flop at the end of the game last Finals vs the Mavericks with D-Wade holding his eye, so egregiously, blatantly ****ing awful.

DaSeba5
05-11-2012, 05:22 PM
Everybody flops and the Clippers are the #1 flopping team.

The haters are always in full force though. You would think LeBron James was Osama Bin Laden by the way people talk about him.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-11-2012, 05:23 PM
spo is a no-name and a ****ing idiot who has no business being the coach of two superstars..

so whats your point??

PSD was so much more peaceful when you were banned. Seriously lol.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 05:25 PM
This type of backtracking is "common" on PSD. People try to talk big and make a rhetorical strategy their argument.

What is truly intended to be argued is unclear because of your extremely biased 1st post. My simple reply is that Lebron and Wade flop plenty and that Vogel is trying to coach off the court and work on a clear Miami advantage.

actually if you read the original post you would notice that there were a couple clear questions I asked.. not to mention that the thread obviously got sidetracked by people who try and turn this into a lebron and wade debate..

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 05:27 PM
PSD was so much more peaceful when you were banned. Seriously lol.

call for my head then

don't think there is any reason for me to get banned.. my comments constantly get twisted and im scrutinized as a biased lebron fan because I like to defend my favorite player on a basketball website.. something that I have a RIGHT to do

LongIslandIcedZ
05-11-2012, 05:30 PM
Some of the flops in that video were hilarious. The one with Wade holding his eye at the end of the game was awesome.

I wish there was a way to quantify and record how much teams flop compared to others.

DaSeba5
05-11-2012, 05:30 PM
The Heat love to flop, they get all the calls.

Want proof?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWYgaJAFLFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihuOrQHSjWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h60uviwKC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBFo-34hRdM

Video don't lie. The Heat are the biggest floppers in the NBA and the only team who gets rewarded by the refs

See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ZuRWGeJJ0

It's a disgrace to basketball but If I'm a Heat fan just own up to it. It's a fact. Plenty of teams have floppers and admit it.

The only team rewarded by the refs? The only team?

I'll give you that they flop, but every team flops. The Heat get a lot of calls when they attack the paint because they attack the paint. I would think the team that attacks the paint would have more FTs than the team that takes jump shots. Do you want the refs to never call a foul?

FreakaNashur
05-11-2012, 05:33 PM
Frank voguel is being a moron

if he is ready to call out the heat on flops he better be ready when other teams do it.

topdog
05-11-2012, 05:35 PM
actually if you read the original post you would notice that there were a couple clear questions I asked.. not to mention that the thread obviously got sidetracked by people who try and turn this into a lebron and wade debate..

Questions you immediately answered...

Not to mention that the Clippers were not covered in the quote nor was there any added argument on your part other than simply stating that they were the bigger floppers.

The other question was altogether unispiring and sounds far more part of an argument than anything else - "has anyone considered the Heat just get fouled that much?" I have considered that and that doesn't change the "embellishment" of fouls or just plain faking of fouls called "flopping."

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 05:40 PM
Questions you immediately answered...

Not to mention that the Clippers were not covered in the quote nor was there any added argument on your part other than simply stating that they were the bigger floppers.

The other question was altogether unispiring and sounds far more part of an argument than anything else - "has anyone considered the Heat just get fouled that much?" I have considered that and that doesn't change the "embellishment" of fouls or just plain faking of fouls called "flopping."

so you need me to make some sort of argument to ask a question?

blake griffin and chris paul.. there you go... now you can have your opinion

SwatTeam
05-11-2012, 05:40 PM
Hahaha this is a funny thread. Here's some points:

1) remember that finals that was decided by flopping? Oh yeah it never happened. (and for those people who complain that it might happen, we'll worry about it when it does. This isnt the Iraq war - we aren't making preemptive strikes against something that happens once or twice a game, stupid.)

2) How pissed do you think Granger is because of Vogel and Hibbert? Granger is the one who has to guard Lebron. Lebron is going to sh!? on his chest on game day. Then he's going to go out for warm ups afterwards. Lebron over/under dropping 35 on Sunday is def an over for me.

3) this series was once boring but now it's a little interesting. Unfortunately, I think the pacers woke up a sleeping giant. We all know the only way to beat the heat is to get them when theyre disinterested and going through the motions. The heat are going to be wide awake and ready to smack that @$$. At least that's what I think. Anything can happen but not a smart move by the pacers. The heat don't get intimidated.

4) and for the guy talking about Jordan not flopping and how great Jordan was - you are obviously an idiot. One can legitimately argue that michaels mark on the game which was pretty much legendary iso play, receiving superstar calls, fade away shots, etc. this is what all current superstars emulate. Everyone wants to be like mike - except they can't but they still continue to try because jordan is put on a pedestal in terms of basketball greatness. Everyone wants to be the greatest. No one will be like mike. We will never see a player like that ever again. Get over it. Stop reminiscing on the past.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 05:43 PM
Hahaha this is a funny thread. Here's some points:

1) remember that finals that was decided by flopping? Oh yeah it never happened. (and for those people who complain that it might happen, we'll worry about it when it does. This isnt the Iraq war - we aren't making preemptive strikes against something that happens once or twice a game, stupid.)

2) How pissed do you think Granger is because of Vogel and Hibbert? Granger is the one who has to guard Lebron. Lebron is going to sh!? on his chest on game day. Then he's going to go out for warm ups afterwards. Lebron over/under dropping 35 on Sunday is def an over for me.

3) this series was once boring but now it's a little interesting. Unfortunately, I think the pacers woke up a sleeping giant. We all know the only way to beat the heat is to get them when theyre disinterested and going through the motions. The heat are going to be wide awake and ready to smack that @$$. At least that's what I think. Anything can happen but not a smart move by the pacers. The heat don't get intimidated.

4) and for the guy talking about Jordan not flopping and how great Jordan was - you are obviously an idiot. One can legitimately argue that michaels mark on the game which was pretty much legendary iso play, receiving superstar calls, fade away shots, etc. this is what all current superstars emulate. Everyone wants to be like mike - except they can't but they still continue to try because jordan is put on a pedestal in terms of basketball greatness. Everyone wants to be the greatest. No one will be like mike. We will never see a player like that ever again. Get over it. Stop reminiscing on the past.

^^

Someone call the swat team cause he just murdered ya'll!!!!

Master Mind
05-11-2012, 06:41 PM
Everyone flops...at least every team has one player at least that embellishes. The Heat do it, for sure. I saw a few flops from Indy in round 1 :shrug:

I don't think talking trash is really in their best interest...but we'll see. Shows weakness to me.

Preemptive ref-whining is always a sign of weakness/fear. Getting the excuses out of the way...

Bingo!

Master Mind
05-11-2012, 06:43 PM
Hahaha this is a funny thread. Here's some points:

1) remember that finals that was decided by flopping? Oh yeah it never happened. (and for those people who complain that it might happen, we'll worry about it when it does. This isnt the Iraq war - we aren't making preemptive strikes against something that happens once or twice a game, stupid.)

2) How pissed do you think Granger is because of Vogel and Hibbert? Granger is the one who has to guard Lebron. Lebron is going to sh!? on his chest on game day. Then he's going to go out for warm ups afterwards. Lebron over/under dropping 35 on Sunday is def an over for me.

3) this series was once boring but now it's a little interesting. Unfortunately, I think the pacers woke up a sleeping giant. We all know the only way to beat the heat is to get them when theyre disinterested and going through the motions. The heat are going to be wide awake and ready to smack that @$$. At least that's what I think. Anything can happen but not a smart move by the pacers. The heat don't get intimidated.

4) and for the guy talking about Jordan not flopping and how great Jordan was - you are obviously an idiot. One can legitimately argue that michaels mark on the game which was pretty much legendary iso play, receiving superstar calls, fade away shots, etc. this is what all current superstars emulate. Everyone wants to be like mike - except they can't but they still continue to try because jordan is put on a pedestal in terms of basketball greatness. Everyone wants to be the greatest. No one will be like mike. We will never see a player like that ever again. Get over it. Stop reminiscing on the past.

:laugh:

You win dude!

Master Mind
05-11-2012, 06:56 PM
Vogul and Hibbert just caused a forest fire

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3p8xm7/

metsbulls1025
05-11-2012, 06:58 PM
How does this make u lose respect for Vogel?

Because everyone hates Lebron and the Heat. He is one of the few that goes against the grain just for the hell of it.


O yeah Lebrons stats makes his dick hard as well.

theheatles
05-11-2012, 07:00 PM
I heard Skip Bayless, Stephen A and Rob Parker ran a train on Charissa Thompson

topdog
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
so you need me to make some sort of argument to ask a question?

blake griffin and chris paul.. there you go... now you can have your opinion

The point was that you didn't back up why you thought the Clippers were bigger floppers and then went on to make smartass comments about Vogel and the Pacers. I don't care to assert who the most egresious floppers are. I simply will argue who is and isn't and that it is a problem.

Now a general comment: the thing I just absolutely LOVE about Lebron fans is that everything comes down to people just "HATING" on Lebron. No one can ever critique him or the Heat without being a "HATER" or "JEALOUS"

DaSeba5
05-11-2012, 07:09 PM
Hahaha this is a funny thread. Here's some points:

1) remember that finals that was decided by flopping? Oh yeah it never happened. (and for those people who complain that it might happen, we'll worry about it when it does. This isnt the Iraq war - we aren't making preemptive strikes against something that happens once or twice a game, stupid.)

2) How pissed do you think Granger is because of Vogel and Hibbert? Granger is the one who has to guard Lebron. Lebron is going to sh!? on his chest on game day. Then he's going to go out for warm ups afterwards. Lebron over/under dropping 35 on Sunday is def an over for me.

3) this series was once boring but now it's a little interesting. Unfortunately, I think the pacers woke up a sleeping giant. We all know the only way to beat the heat is to get them when theyre disinterested and going through the motions. The heat are going to be wide awake and ready to smack that @$$. At least that's what I think. Anything can happen but not a smart move by the pacers. The heat don't get intimidated.

4) and for the guy talking about Jordan not flopping and how great Jordan was - you are obviously an idiot. One can legitimately argue that michaels mark on the game which was pretty much legendary iso play, receiving superstar calls, fade away shots, etc. this is what all current superstars emulate. Everyone wants to be like mike - except they can't but they still continue to try because jordan is put on a pedestal in terms of basketball greatness. Everyone wants to be the greatest. No one will be like mike. We will never see a player like that ever again. Get over it. Stop reminiscing on the past.

This guy just destroyed everyone.

Khri
05-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Wow I didn't care for the Pacers before but I sure do know, I hope we destroy them, they are a bunch of cocky *****es

Mr Costanza
05-11-2012, 07:33 PM
Wow I didn't care for the Pacers before but I sure do know, I hope we destroy them, they are a bunch of cocky *****es

Irony at its best.

Khri
05-11-2012, 07:35 PM
Irony at its best.

I can feel the butthurt from miles away.

Mr Costanza
05-11-2012, 07:42 PM
I can feel the butthurt from miles away.

That one really got me to laugh. Very nice. :clap:

JC_
05-11-2012, 08:32 PM
Pacers are going to get ****ed up. They had a chance to win some games when they were kind of under the radar but now I expect the Heat to come out and completely wreck them.

D1JM
05-11-2012, 08:36 PM
Everyone flops...at least every team has one player at least that embellishes. The Heat do it, for sure. I saw a few flops from Indy in round 1 :shrug:

I don't think talking trash is really in their best interest...but we'll see. Shows weakness to me.

Preemptive ref-whining is always a sign of weakness/fear. Getting the excuses out of the way...

I don't think it shows weakness. His strategy is to make the refs, the NBA, the media and the fans closely monitor their flopping. All he is doing is playing mind games :shrug:

shizzle09
05-11-2012, 08:44 PM
Cannot wait to dust this guy off and his team. We'll see who's flopping after the series. Lol.

justinnum1
05-11-2012, 08:57 PM
Problem with flops are its very hard to tell if its a flop when its live and your standing right near it(being a ref)...if it was easy to detect, refs wouldnt call it so much.

If anything, this is just a ton of material to put on the board.

naps
05-11-2012, 09:08 PM
Frank Vogel on Dan LeBatard.

LINK (http://www.790theticket.com/lebatard.aspx).

LeBatard asked Vogel if LeBron and Wade were floppers and he was like "NOOOOO! They don't flop, they make athletic plays on the rim. LeBron and Wade two of the bests on making plays at the rim."

Ethix11
05-11-2012, 09:25 PM
Quote:
"Every drive to the basket, they have guys not making a play on the ball, but sliding in front of drivers," Vogel said. "Oftentimes they're falling down even before contact is even being made. It'll be interesting to see how the series is officiated."

Not true. Indiana is already throwing in the towel the way i see it. He can't admit that they play solid defense. It's called taking a charge. It's in the rulebook, it's fair, look it up and start playing like men. They don't ever fall down before contact. See Battier and Haslem there's no way they throw themselves back that far.

DaSeba5
05-11-2012, 09:51 PM
Why would he try to piss off the Heat? The last thing you want to do is piss off Wade and LeBron. This is board material for the Heat. How does that motivate the Pacers?

D1JM
05-11-2012, 10:27 PM
Why would he try to piss off the Heat? The last thing you want to do is piss off Wade and LeBron. This is board material for the Heat. How does that motivate the Pacers?

vogel is a gambling man. he is betting that refs are not going to be whistle happy and that lebron and wade think twice before flopping, since he brought it up to the media. however, i doubt the refs and the heat change their style

DaSeba5
05-11-2012, 10:40 PM
vogel is a gambling man. he is betting that refs are not going to be whistle happy and that lebron and wade think twice before flopping, since he brought it up to the media. however, i doubt the refs and the heat change their style

Yah I don't think it will make a difference.

HoodedSB
05-11-2012, 10:53 PM
flopping threads are the new knicks threads, it seems.

NoahH
05-11-2012, 11:09 PM
Let's see who's talking when the pacers go out in 5

stawka
05-11-2012, 11:26 PM
Bad move IMO, don't add fuel to the fire on an elite team

I personally hate flopping. Taking a charge is different to flopping - then again I hate when Wade/Kobe/Pau scream like they got raped every time they take a shot

Vincent33
05-11-2012, 11:28 PM
Good move by Vogel. Very Phil Jackson-like.

LongIslandIcedZ
05-11-2012, 11:35 PM
Hey if it's able to get them a couple of calls that they wouldnt normally get, more power to them. Don't see it making much of a difference though.

Cfrey
05-11-2012, 11:52 PM
you tell em long island

mdm692
05-11-2012, 11:58 PM
Just lost respect for Vogel, of course they dont make plays on the ball, they are all a bunch of midgets compared to other teams in the interior. What they do have is quickness and defensive savvy, they draw legit charges but its right before a playoff series so what else would you expect from the underdog.

I wonder if he ends up retracting those statements the same way Memphis coach did.

I dont think vogel really cares if you respect him or not. Either way he is right.

Ethix11
05-12-2012, 12:33 AM
They don't really care if you respect them or not. Either way you are wrong. They are not a flopping team they are a take charge team. Soft teams don't play defense. They put their bodies on the line, protect their nuts and brace for impact. In fact, they even mastered the art of breaking their falls. If you don't believe me, then just watch.

Chronz
05-12-2012, 01:13 AM
I dont think vogel really cares if you respect him or not. Either way he is right.
Dont care if he does or doesnt, either way hes wrong.

smith&wesson
05-12-2012, 01:38 AM
Just lost respect for Vogel, of course they dont make plays on the ball, they are all a bunch of midgets compared to other teams in the interior. What they do have is quickness and defensive savvy, they draw legit charges but its right before a playoff series so what else would you expect from the underdog.

I wonder if he ends up retracting those statements the same way Memphis coach did.

he is simply planting the seeds in the refs minds to not give too many superstar calls. dont think it will work. id call it a weak tactic.

to be fair the pacers dont have the star power that miami has and its undeniable that stars in this league do in fact get super star calls.

LbronFlopaJames
05-12-2012, 01:55 AM
Coach Vogel is right i am a flopper as well as my team. I am the King for a reason i like to flop.

DaSeba5
05-12-2012, 01:57 AM
Coach Vogel is right i am a flopper as well as my team. I am the King for a reason i like to flop.

:rolleyes::eyebrow:

utl768
05-12-2012, 02:07 AM
being good at taking charges = flopping?

smh

Max.This
05-12-2012, 02:20 AM
being good at taking charges = flopping?

smh

how the hell are you a jet met and heat fan. :facepalm:... I hope to see a Clippers, Heat final. It'll be like watching a tv drama

Knicks21
05-12-2012, 02:32 AM
being good at taking charges = flopping?

smh

Try to look at it if it wasn't your team, then you would understand.

Jarvo
05-12-2012, 09:22 AM
CP3 & Blake say wassup.

BALLER R
05-12-2012, 09:31 AM
Smart coach. He wants his team to play physical but they will get called for a ton of fouls because their facing the heat. So he says this to get the attention of the refs. So now when his players play physical the refs won't easily call the foul on them. Hes thinking 2 step ahead thats pretty smart coaching strategy.

BALLER R
05-12-2012, 09:43 AM
People really think miami doesn't flop. They over react to the smallest touches.
See for yourself (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72oAdLquEi0&feature=related)

MTL_123
05-12-2012, 09:48 AM
i find it funny that people are acting like miami is the only team that flops i bet i can find videos of all your teams flopping. people just like to hate thats it

Facepalm!
05-12-2012, 10:06 AM
James flopping cost the Knicks their series lol

Davidgta1
05-12-2012, 10:13 AM
He's pulling a Phil Jackson. should be a good series.

TheJesus
05-12-2012, 10:13 AM
This forum is ridiculous. Any sign of Melo being bashed, and everyone comes out of the woodwork shaking their fingers and giving the original posters a hard time because people are clearly "bashing" Melo.

Yet, the Heat and Lebron are fair game. I'm not a Heat fan and the hypocritical nature of this forum is a turn off. I feel bad for the Heat fans that have to deal with this regularly. You guys should find a better sports forum where the moderators aren't asleep at the wheel.

BklynKnicks3
05-12-2012, 10:42 AM
lebron and wade are 2 huggin cowards i refuse to watch. If they lose ill be almost as happy as if my knicks win

Byronicle
05-12-2012, 10:43 AM
The problem lies when you have Superstars who already get those phantom/superstar calls and are also flopping to get more calls

Come on now. Sure every team flops, but how many teams have 2 of the leagues top 10 players, and future HOF'ers that flop?

the Facts are real and obvious. Heat is a superstar studded team that flops, its understandable when you got garbage players flopping because that is how they get their pay in the league, but you are a superstar, flopping is going to be seen almost as cheating and no one likes a star that cheats

BklynKnicks3
05-12-2012, 10:51 AM
cowards

MTL_123
05-12-2012, 10:54 AM
lebron and wade are 2 huggin cowards i refuse to watch. If they lose ill be almost as happy as if my knicks win

ahahahhahahah u still man at that 4-1 *** whopping

utl768
05-12-2012, 11:32 AM
how the hell are you a jet met and heat fan. :facepalm:... I hope to see a Clippers, Heat final. It'll be like watching a tv drama

i used to live in ny so theres the jets and mets

i live in florida now and only started watching basketball once i moved here in 2000 and decided to root for the heat since i liked alonzo mourning

Ch0ZSeN1
05-12-2012, 12:08 PM
I dont know dude... Watchin the heat play the Knicks in the first round, the heat take flopping to a whole new level. Not to mention they get every call regardless of a flop or not.

NYY 26 to 7
05-12-2012, 12:19 PM
Vogel is trying to get the refs early on to not fall for it.

Plus, he's trying to add a little fire to his guys as there's no real headlines in this series or rivalry of any sort. I don't mind it at all. Of course you do run the risk of having Miami come out even more fired up, but that remains to be seen

Exactly it's a great move. He has proved to be a really really great coach. He has done some great things with this team.

CubZwin38
05-12-2012, 12:21 PM
I know Vogel was still sucking on his mom's teet at the time but surely somebody has told him of Reggie Miller and his epic flopping for a decade in the NBA on the team that he now coaches. Stfu Vogel. Nothing you say will change anything.

CEasFiRe
05-12-2012, 12:33 PM
Ahhhh if only tone loc wouldve mentioned this when the series ended to further conclude the heat are the most pathetic group of floppers in the league

Raph12
05-12-2012, 12:38 PM
He just wants the refs to look at it closely, he's trying to mind**** them.

Evolution23
05-12-2012, 01:44 PM
He's right but the Clippers are pretty bad too

Evolution23
05-12-2012, 01:45 PM
I dont know dude... Watchin the heat play the Knicks in the first round, the heat take flopping to a whole new level. Not to mention they get every call regardless of a flop or not.

seriously Heat can't even with their 2 stars and 1 raptor, so they have to reduce them selves to flopping.

Supa
05-12-2012, 01:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM7sIEZTFYk

MonroeFAN
05-12-2012, 01:52 PM
Who is this guy to be making comments like that?

I really like the Pacers this year, but that was a stupid comment. They're no one to be talking poorly about Miami.

CrotchetyOldMan
05-12-2012, 01:58 PM
This was a great move by Vogel...It has worked in the past for other coaches just trying to make officials aware of what the Heat try to do...He is speaking the truth as I've yet to see DWade take a shot this year without falling to the ground after and looking at the refs...The Heat and Clippers this year have taken flopping to a whole new level and I find it disturbing and hope Stern does something real about it this offseason...I can barely watch the Heat play and the Clippers as well when if you look at them they go flying across the court and onto the ground...It's pathetic and makes basketball a worse watch than soccer...These guys are great players and strong physical men and it would be refreshing to see them act like men instead of weak little babies....

MonroeFAN
05-12-2012, 02:01 PM
Wade is a *****, i'll give him that. Lebron doesn't need to flop, it's most likely encouraged by the coaching staff.

CrotchetyOldMan
05-12-2012, 02:08 PM
Wade is a *****, i'll give him that. Lebron doesn't need to flop, it's most likely encouraged by the coaching staff.

That's kind of my point...None of these guys NEED to flop...If they played the game strong and fierce they wouldn't go flailing about looking ridiculous every single time they take a shot...Let the refs make the calls without the extra flailing and flopping about...Don't they feel any shame when they go back and watch the tape?...Does anyone else find it comical to watch 200-250 pound grown men flailing like rag dolls when someone taps their elbow on a shot?

Bornknick73
05-12-2012, 02:21 PM
Classic Phil Jackson move. Phil would make statements about things like that before a series to put public pressure on the refs. Smart move by Vogel, put some attention on it before the series starts. Pulled a page from the Jackson book of gamesmanship. Most often then not it worked too. Refs used to give Micheal plenty of calls in the 90s due to Phils public complaining about the Knicks defense before the series.

Cant do it during the series, so get some scrutiny on it before it starts. Smart move.

And Danny Granger is the most underrated player in the game today. If he played in a big market he would be a household name.

Soonerule
05-12-2012, 03:51 PM
Classic Phil Jackson move. Phil would make statements about things like that before a series to put public pressure on the refs. Smart move by Vogel, put some attention on it before the series starts. Pulled a page from the Jackson book of gamesmanship. Most often then not it worked too. Refs used to give Micheal plenty of calls in the 90s due to Phils public complaining about the Knicks defense before the series.

Cant do it during the series, so get some scrutiny on it before it starts. Smart move.

And Danny Granger is the most underrated player in the game today. If he played in a big market he would be a household name.

I don't think Jackson did it to get into get into the refs head and I don't think Vogel did either. He said it to get into the Heats head. It's like telling an opponent his hand position is perfect at the top of his swing and then he rushes the rest of the day and shanks everything in the trees. Vogel gets everyone talking about flopping, gets the Heat thinking about everyone talking about flopping, then when game time comes they are thinking about flopping and not playing. It is brilliant. But I agree he probably picked it up from Jackson when he was advanced scout for the Lakers in 05-06.

PacersForLife
05-12-2012, 04:16 PM
And Danny Granger is the most underrated player in the game today. If he played in a big market he would be a household name.

This is besides the point, but this statement has some truth to it...

SA5195
05-12-2012, 04:26 PM
Both Clippers and Heat are pissing me off. Guys are acting more than playing ball.

godolphins
05-12-2012, 08:01 PM
I'm not saying I disagree, but who flopped on the Pacers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo_nDWk70X0 :laugh2:

Michael Wallace

Pacers' coach Frank Vogel fined $15K for those "flopping" comments about the Heat.

SportsFanatic10
05-12-2012, 08:14 PM
lol gonna be a short series...

3ballbomber
05-13-2012, 05:30 AM
Good stuff Vogel. Pacers may play them tough but unfortunately i just don't see them winning this series.

BcEuAbRsS
05-13-2012, 07:24 AM
Vogel is right... I hate flopping, Noah is a big time offender...

Every time Lebron hits the floor you would think he blew up his ACL... And Wade does his slide halfway down the court every time he goes for a layup...

I just think it's a shame that some of the best players in todays game feel the need to flop...

Jumi
05-13-2012, 10:48 AM
Good move on Vogel's part. A team that has Lebron, Wade, and Bosh shouldn't get phantom fouls for flopping. It's hard enough to beat them with out the extra fouls on your key players and the free throws. Everyone know they do it so I'd point it out too! They aren't the only team to do it, but if it's a team that doesn't need an advantage it's this team. Imagine the 2008 Celtics crushing the league and KG flopping all over the place! That would've been sickening! They were already dominating!!!

justinnum1
05-13-2012, 10:51 AM
All i think this did was make the refs call less things for the pacers. Refs dont like being called out.

BcEuAbRsS
05-13-2012, 02:21 PM
I actually think it helps them. The refs have in a generic way been warned about flopping. The refs don't wanna get caught with the I told you so face.

Cfrey
05-13-2012, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Bornknick73
And Danny Granger is the most underrated player in the game today. If he played in a big market he would be a household name.


This is besides the point, but this statement has some truth to it...

lol are you guys serious?? danny granger is not underrated and in fact he isn't e even close to a star and wouldn't be anywhere he played

TheWhiteMamba
05-13-2012, 02:26 PM
This was genius for Vogel to say. He will get the refs to watch carefully over the Heat floppers (Chalmers, Battier, Haslem, Wade, Bron, Bosh). If i was Vogel id take it a step further and send in tapes from their series with NYK. It'll probably piss off the Heat but its a risk worth taking.

Cfrey
05-13-2012, 02:29 PM
This was genius for Vogel to say. He will get the refs to watch carefully over the Heat floppers (Chalmers, Battier, Haslem, Wade, Bron, Bosh). If i was Vogel id take it a step further and send in tapes from their series with NYK. It'll probably piss off the Heat but its a risk worth taking.

How can you guys keep saying this is genius ?? Like the refs calling flops or not is going to determine the outcome of this series?? LOL I don't think so.. sure go ahead vogel send in some tapes and see where that gets you..

The over analysis of his comments needs to stop.. He said some things he shouldn't have and I can't wait til they get embarrassed

TheWhiteMamba
05-13-2012, 02:32 PM
How can you guys keep saying this is genius ?? Like the refs calling flops or not is going to determine the outcome of this series?? LOL I don't think so.. sure go ahead vogel send in some tapes and see where that gets you..

The over analysis of his comments needs to stop.. He said some things he shouldn't have and I can't wait til they get embarrassed

Well not calling flops will keep important guys out of foul trouble and Miami off the line. A lot of these playoffs games have come down to free throws. Everyone made, missed, taken, and not taken is important.

The GEEEEE Men
05-13-2012, 04:41 PM
Anyone see Miller try to flop? Pathetic

KingsMadness44
05-13-2012, 04:58 PM
did anyone see the grizzlies vs clippers game? that was one of the best games i have watched this entire year! that game was physical and the refs were very very consistent with letting the players play and let them decide the outcome