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Baller1
05-10-2012, 11:40 PM
Been arguing with a friend for a while now, so just curious what others think.

Would the Los Angeles Lakers be/have been a better team this season with Harden on the team instead of Kobe? Would the Lakers have a better chance of making a deep playoff run in this instance?

Avenged
05-10-2012, 11:43 PM
Don't know, don't think so though..

Harden comes off the bench as a 3rd option, I'd like to see how he would do as the 1st. Not saying he can't but it's hard to say that he would excel Kobe when he's never been in that position.

*Silver&Black*
05-10-2012, 11:44 PM
NO. Don't care what happens in the season with Kobe taking alot of shots. I would still want him on my team come playoff time. Not a Lakers fan, so maybe they have other opinions, but I would rather have Kobe on my Hawks in the playoffs instead of Harden, and 99% of the league.

Baller1
05-10-2012, 11:45 PM
Don't know, don't think so though..

Harden comes off the bench as a 3rd option, I'd like to see how he would do as the 1st. Not saying he can't but it's hard to say that he would excel Kobe when he's never been in that position.

Can't say I disagree at all, I just thought it was an interesting topic so I wanted to see how other people argued for each side.

Jenceman
05-10-2012, 11:47 PM
No, can Harden really lead a team like the Lakers? Sure has can be great coming off the bench and feeding off all the attention KD and Westbrook get, but can he really lead a team composed of Pau-Bynum?

fresh prince
05-11-2012, 12:08 AM
I really just wanted to ignore this but I just couldn't.

Just answer the question yourself. Is James Harden better than Kobe Bryant at basketball?

ManRam
05-11-2012, 12:16 AM
Love Harden, but I don't think we can jump to this yet. We haven't seen enough of Harden as a #1 option.

But it would be very interesting just because how different the team would be with a guy like Harden as opposed to a guy like Kobe. Very different styles...but both are very good.

ManRam
05-11-2012, 12:20 AM
I really just wanted to ignore this but I just couldn't.

Just answer the question yourself. Is James Harden better than Kobe Bryant at basketball?

I don't think it's necessarily that black and white. Sometimes players can be better fits.

And I actually don't think the gap is that huge. Kobe is still better, but Harden does do things better than Kobe. Harden is extremely effecient. Top 5 in WS/48, a better shooter, incredibly selfless and a solid passer.


But I can't in my right mind say they'd be better...but I think the LA Laker team dynamic would change a lot...and in some ways perhaps for the better.

Chacarron
05-11-2012, 12:53 AM
We haven't seen Harden play as a true number 1 option much (if at all). As much as I love Harden, I don't think he would make a difference in the Lakers playoff run. The problem with the Lakers is the coaching and the complacency of players like Andrew Bynum.

b@llhog24
05-11-2012, 01:06 AM
I think they'd be better in the reg season with Harden, but in the playoffs not so much.

naps
05-11-2012, 01:12 AM
It's hard to say because we haven't seen enough of Harden but Harden's style of play makes me think he would be a better fit next to their twin-towers and thus a chance to have a better overall record. Not sure about the playoffs though. Kobe is a seasoned vet and Harden is a blossoming one.

Law25
05-11-2012, 01:30 AM
This is stupid. Thats like asking would the Heat be better if they had igudala ( i know i spelled it wrong) instead of Wade. He's good but just not on the same level.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-11-2012, 01:38 AM
LMFAO:laugh:

lurkinglionsfan
05-11-2012, 01:39 AM
i said yes but that is only cause harden would be fine being the 2-3 option behind pau and bynum

Donuts365
05-11-2012, 01:58 AM
Been arguing with a friend for a while now, so just curious what others think.

Would the Los Angeles Lakers be/have been a better team this season with Harden on the team instead of Kobe? Would the Lakers have a better chance of making a deep playoff run in this instance?

i laughed

Donuts365
05-11-2012, 01:59 AM
This is stupid. Thats like asking would the Heat be better if they had igudala ( i know i spelled it wrong) instead of Wade. He's good but just not on the same level.

lmfaooooo

Baller1
05-11-2012, 02:10 AM
This is stupid. Thats like asking would the Heat be better if they had igudala ( i know i spelled it wrong) instead of Wade. He's good but just not on the same level.


LMFAO:laugh:


i laughed

Very solid arguments.

Eg714
05-11-2012, 02:14 AM
The lakers are Kobe's team but I would trade Bynum for harden and ibaka.

basketfan4life
05-11-2012, 02:34 AM
There is no way the Lakers would be better with harden instead of Kobe. The Lakers is a team full of immature players and a bad coach who players don't give a **** for. Kobe is the player that keeps people serious on that team. And this is just the leadership part.

As a player, i suggest don't get too obsessed with advanced stats, Harden is not the number 1 player Kobe is at this point in his career, that would be Bynum's team and that means you are going nowhere.

I think the better q is would the heat be better with harden instead of wade, he seems to me a better fit to lbj than wade.

Iron24th
05-11-2012, 02:39 AM
Looks like a baiting attempt.
But I'll try to give the OP the benefit of the doubt.
No I don't think Harden would be a better fit.

J4KOP99
05-11-2012, 02:44 AM
I just think it's one thing to excel when you're the 3rd option and the opposition isn't necessarily game-planning "for" you... What makes the great players great, for lack of a better word, is their ability to constantly improve their game and always be one step ahead of the opposition when it's the oppositions main goal to stop them.

-I am in no way saying Harden would not be able to do what Kobe does, but as of now, I'd have to say no to your answer. We just haven't seen enough of him as "the man"

one hell of a player he is turning into though. I really wonder if he stays in OKC... but that is a topic for another day.

The_Jamal
05-11-2012, 02:45 AM
Tough to say. From an efficiency stand-point, you probably can't find a better trio to create than Harden-Pau-Bynum. However, all three of those guys(right at this moment) are really good #2 options. Pau is past his prime of being able to lead a team, and I don't trust Bynum or Harden to be that guy yet.

iam brett favre
05-11-2012, 02:52 AM
LMFAO:laugh:

What's funny?

Hellcrooner
05-11-2012, 02:53 AM
no.
The problem on the lakers is not Kobe or Pau, they have won rings togheter.

The problem is other.

smith&wesson
05-11-2012, 03:05 AM
this is a joke right :confused:

hell to the no...

kobe = leader, clutch factor, experience, will to win, durabe, plays through injuries, 5 chamionships!!!! one of the best lakers of all time, top 10 player of all time!!!

harden = 3rd or 4th best player on his team. you have no idea what he would preform like as the go to guy and as the guy the aposing teams best defender is gaurding. not to mention the double teams and triple teams.. young, inexperienced, hasnt won **** yet, 6th man etc ..

Ebbs
05-11-2012, 03:26 AM
I hate Kobe. I also think he has been overrated repeatedly on PSD. However this is crazy talk. I can't believe the hype Harden is getting. He is third fiddle to two of the leagues top 10 players. He has shown a lot this year and has stepped up when the Thunder need him too but Kobe has been a proven #1 option for years

PrettyBoyJ
05-11-2012, 03:29 AM
NO.. Harden is a good player but he's not in Kobe's league and probably never will be..

kblo247
05-11-2012, 03:37 AM
I don't think it's necessarily that black and white. Sometimes players can be better fits.

And I actually don't think the gap is that huge. Kobe is still better, but Harden does do things better than Kobe. Harden is extremely effecient. Top 5 in WS/48, a better shooter, incredibly selfless and a solid passer.


But I can't in my right mind say they'd be better...but I think the LA Laker team dynamic would change a lot...and in some ways perhaps for the better.

And Kobes been a primary scorer and facilitator on 7 finals teams which included two different back to back to back trips to the finals. Hardens efficiency and shooting would take a hit with doubles and triples plus the sheer amount of bailouts Kobe takes against the clock throughout his career

I know Harden couldn't do the job as a scorer or playmaker with everyone knowing he is the perimeter offense and facilitator, like Kobe has been for the majority of his career. Iyt is totally different scoring and passing when you have Durant and Westbrook on the perimeter who can get you looks consistently and create for themselves as opposed to a Fisher or Fox who were the main SF's and PG's Kobe played with for a part of his career success and length wise

I also think what would hurt the most is that Brown is spineless unlike Phil, and asks Kobe to be the daddy and the brother. HE has to be one of the guys, but also has to get on Bynum and so forward, which I don't think Harden would be comfortable with doing

Baller1
05-11-2012, 04:18 AM
My god, you people realize that players age right? As in, they get older? Obviously Kobe has accomplished more and accumulated more experience over the years... But that doesn't automatically make him the better player RIGHT NOW.

He's become inefficient as all hell, and hasn't been even close to what he used to be. To say that this topic is "outrageous" or whatever other adjective you want to use is ridiculous in my opinion. Like I said in the original post, I'm open to the debate which is why I brought it up, but if the answer is "because he's older and has won more", then I'm not buying that. Show me why Kobe THIS SEASON is a better fit for the Lakers than Harden.

He's a chucker, inefficient, in over his head, and fails to realize he can't play the way he used to. Meanwhile, Harden has become the most efficient pure scorer in the NBA and the leading playmaker on a team that finished with the better record.

I'm not annoyed because people disagree with the notion, I'm annoyed because I've yet to see a respectable, valid argument as to why they think Kobe is so much more valuable to the Lakers than a potential Harden-led team. That, and the fact that Harden's playing style suits the 2011-2012 Lakers better than Kobe's current game does. So again, I ask for someone to actually put together a respectable argument, didn't think it was too much too ask for.

(Hopefully someone like Avenged or Shep or KB-Pau-D12 will read this, I need some sort of intelligence to enter this conversation).

b@llhog24
05-11-2012, 04:21 AM
I think you guys are thinking about 2006 Kobe. 2006>>2012 Harden. However in the same year its pretty much a a push.

b@llhog24
05-11-2012, 04:23 AM
My god, you people realize that players age right? As in, they get older? Obviously Kobe has accomplished more and accumulated more experience over the years... But that doesn't automatically make him the better player RIGHT NOW.

He's become inefficient as all hell, and hasn't been even close to what he used to be. To say that this topic is "outrageous" or whatever other adjective you want to use is ridiculous in my opinion. Like I said in the original post, I'm open to the debate which is why I brought it up, but if the answer is "because he's older and has won more", then I'm not buying that. Show me why Kobe THIS SEASON is a better fit for the Lakers than Harden.

He's a chucker, inefficient, in over his head, and fails to realize he can't play the way he used to. Meanwhile, Harden has become the most efficient pure scorer in the NBA and the leading playmaker on a team that finished with the better record.

I'm not annoyed because people disagree with the notion, I'm annoyed because I've yet to see a respectable, valid argument as to why they think Kobe is so much more valuable to the Lakers than a potential Harden-led team. That, and the fact that Harden's playing style suits the 2011-2012 Lakers better than Kobe's current game does. So again, I ask for someone to actually put together a respectable argument, didn't think it was too much too ask for.

(Hopefully someone like Avenged or Shep or KB-Pau-D12 will read this, I need some sort of intelligence to enter this conversation).

:mad: I didn't see this before I replied.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-11-2012, 05:33 AM
Very solid arguments.

You really think when Harden gets same coverage by defense than Kobe he can still maintain his efficiency?

You gotta be kidding me...hell, we havent even seen him start, being a first option, lol not even a second option.:facepalm:

john545455
05-11-2012, 05:58 AM
Has harden ever scored 81? No and he never will. Get over it man, Kobe is a better player even at 33.

b@llhog24
05-11-2012, 06:10 AM
Has harden ever scored 81? No and he never will. Get over it man, Kobe is a better player even at 33.

I wasn't aware Kobe scored 81points this season. :eyebrow:

Knicks21
05-11-2012, 06:16 AM
Harden never commands the teams best wing defensive player.

basketfan4life
05-11-2012, 08:09 AM
My god, you people realize that players age right? As in, they get older? Obviously Kobe has accomplished more and accumulated more experience over the years... But that doesn't automatically make him the better player RIGHT NOW.

He's become inefficient as all hell, and hasn't been even close to what he used to be. To say that this topic is "outrageous" or whatever other adjective you want to use is ridiculous in my opinion. Like I said in the original post, I'm open to the debate which is why I brought it up, but if the answer is "because he's older and has won more", then I'm not buying that. Show me why Kobe THIS SEASON is a better fit for the Lakers than Harden.

He's a chucker, inefficient, in over his head, and fails to realize he can't play the way he used to. Meanwhile, Harden has become the most efficient pure scorer in the NBA and the leading playmaker on a team that finished with the better record.

I'm not annoyed because people disagree with the notion, I'm annoyed because I've yet to see a respectable, valid argument as to why they think Kobe is so much more valuable to the Lakers than a potential Harden-led team. That, and the fact that Harden's playing style suits the 2011-2012 Lakers better than Kobe's current game does. So again, I ask for someone to actually put together a respectable argument, didn't think it was too much too ask for.

(Hopefully someone like Avenged or Shep or KB-Pau-D12 will read this, I need some sort of intelligence to enter this conversation).

1-Kobe is easily the better player.

2-How about you show us why harden would be better, you are the one who brought the subject(as ridicuolus as it is)...Also a lot of people explained to you why, but you don't seem to care, well we know kobe is the player you hate most all time.

3-Are you watching Lakers-Denver series? Kobe might be a little inefficient in the regular season, but he is showing now why he is a top dog still in this league(actually denver is the team which can slow down Kobe most in the reg. season). The only player that actually cares now on the lakers roster. Where do you think harden can lead this team with this kind of immature players? do you think his flopping gets Lakers over the top?

Ok, i'm done.

RealLiveBear
05-11-2012, 08:33 AM
Nope, Kobe>Harden. Even though Harden would play more off the bigs and get them more touches you just can't replace Kobes killer instinct.

kdspurman
05-11-2012, 09:08 AM
No way. And that's not a knock on Harden, and more of it probably doesn't have to do with skill. Harden's got so many years ahead of him to be the guy. Kobe has been there and done that. He's got the right attitude and demeanor to be in control of this team. Not to mention, how much respect would he get from the guys around him when he's on the court, and the way his teammates trust him and depend on him to hit big shots

Soonerule
05-11-2012, 11:37 AM
Folks, baller isn't trolling, he just wanted to see what other thought about the effect of swapping Kobe for Harden, and baller, look closer, some answered without getting nasty about it.

For what it's worth, and you know I love Harden, I answered no and I have multiple reasons. The first being his age, too many veterans with championship rings on for Harden to just step in and be THE leader that Kobe is. Second thing is personality. Kobe is much more of a vocal leader than James and not trying to offend any Laker fans out there, this Lakers team has needed some tongue lashings from their leader and I don't think Harden would do that or feel comfortable trying. I think their situation right now is a perfect example. Pau and Bynum are playing like they are asleep. Denver drove the basket all night in game 6 and between both of the Lakers' primary bigs they picked up a total of 2 fouls! In game 5, Pau was the only one that even showed a pulse picking up 4. If a player with Kobe's credentials, mvp awards and all star status, can't motivate these guys, how is a guy like James that has never even been a regular starter fire them up. James, as I said, is not a vocal guy, he leads with his play on the floor and if the performance Kobe put on in the fourth quarter of game 5 doesn't fire up his bigs I would suggest someone get a crash cart.

On the flip side, I think I can anticipate your argument in favor of Harden. James would work to keep Bynum and Pau more involved during the game and work to create shots for them. Something I don't see Kobe doing a lot of, and that could get them playing harder. What we don't know though is how effective Harden would be as "the guy" if it fell to him. Of course that may have never been the situation because by this time Harden may have put Bynum and Gasol in the position of being "the guys", lol, and they may be playing with much more enthusiasm right now leaving him still as the third option and going right on with his business. So yes, I can see where there have been some points to debate.

I looked at that too and I still say I have to give Kobe the nod on this one at "this" time.

Soonerule
05-11-2012, 11:42 AM
What I do find interesting about this thread is 13 picking Harden in the poll but not weighing into the conversation..... just saying

Baller1
05-11-2012, 01:06 PM
1-Kobe is easily the better player.

2-How about you show us why harden would be better, you are the one who brought the subject(as ridicuolus as it is)...Also a lot of people explained to you why, but you don't seem to care, well we know kobe is the player you hate most all time.

3-Are you watching Lakers-Denver series? Kobe might be a little inefficient in the regular season, but he is showing now why he is a top dog still in this league(actually denver is the team which can slow down Kobe most in the reg. season). The only player that actually cares now on the lakers roster. Where do you think harden can lead this team with this kind of immature players? do you think his flopping gets Lakers over the top?

Ok, i'm done.

1. Again, completely opinionated and you provide no insight as to why Kobe is a better player RIGHT NOW. He's 33 and an inefficient chucker at this point in his career who still hasn't figured out that sharing the ball will generate more wins. He's continues to force bad shots, especially late in games, because he thinks he's the Kobe of old. There's so many times this season when Kobe has been absolutely 100% cold, and still forces up late game prayers like this is 2005.

2. Would you like statistical analysis, or logisitic reasoning? Statistically, there isn't a guard in this league that is more efficient than James Harden (not even close actually). He's the younger player and therefore has the superior athleticism than Kobe currently allowing him to get better shots near the rim and more importantly finish those shots. He leads guards in TS% and it's an absolute slaughter, and that's because he's a better finisher, better shooter, better three point shooter, and a better free throw shooter.

Continuing along with the efficiency argument, Harden is the only guard in the top 8 players of the NBA in PPP (points per possession). You know why? Because big men are down low consistently playin closer to the basket and therefore getting easier, more efficient looks. Doesn't matter, because Harden is so damn efficient that he's forced his way into the top of that list anyway.

Shying away from stats a bit, just look at the way the two players play. I admit that Kobe probably has the emotional advantage as far as intangibles go, as well as an advantage in leadership. But liking purely at their playing styles, and play making distributor is what could maximize the talents of LA's two seven footers. Can you imagine a pick and roll game with Pau Gasol and James Harden? For God's sake, Harden runs an unstoppable two man game with Nick ****ing Collison... Sky's the limit if he's running it with a skilled big man like Gasol. And there's Bynum who, when motivated, can get position on the block at almost anytime in the game. And with Harden's insane ability to get inside the lane and dish to an open player (again, see Harden/Collison's two man game), Bynum would thrive off easy baskets from Harden's passes.

3. Of course I've been watching this series, and I've seen what Kobe has done. That's why my question was a two-parter. In the playoffs, I think this question's answer may sway more towards Kobe because of the experience and killer instinct to play big in big moments.

I brought it up out of curiousity in hope of getting some insight, but all it came out being was a bunch of Laker fans scoffing at the idea. Not sure why it's so hard for an objective, intelligent Laker fan to give me some insight. For ****s sake, I'm open to being wrong... I just want to be proven wrong at the very least.

kozelkid
05-11-2012, 01:14 PM
Can't say I'm one bit surprised by the number of posters who think it's easily Kobe given what he once WAS.

Look, as far as first option score goes, Kobe is probably better. However, considering the same Laker fans have complained how Kobe has in numerous occasions, shot their team out of the game and wouldn't feed the ball their dominant twin towers, it amazes me that they are so adamantly against a player who is currently much more efficient than Kobe, younger and is a far more willing passer.

Currently, their team lacks offensive balance, rhythm and continuity, not more scoring talent. As such, I'd prefer Harden.

smith&wesson
05-11-2012, 01:21 PM
My god, you people realize that players age right? As in, they get older? Obviously Kobe has accomplished more and accumulated more experience over the years... But that doesn't automatically make him the better player RIGHT NOW.

He's become inefficient as all hell, and hasn't been even close to what he used to be. To say that this topic is "outrageous" or whatever other adjective you want to use is ridiculous in my opinion. Like I said in the original post, I'm open to the debate which is why I brought it up, but if the answer is "because he's older and has won more", then I'm not buying that. Show me why Kobe THIS SEASON is a better fit for the Lakers than Harden.

He's a chucker, inefficient, in over his head, and fails to realize he can't play the way he used to. Meanwhile, Harden has become the most efficient pure scorer in the NBA and the leading playmaker on a team that finished with the better record.

I'm not annoyed because people disagree with the notion, I'm annoyed because I've yet to see a respectable, valid argument as to why they think Kobe is so much more valuable to the Lakers than a potential Harden-led team. That, and the fact that Harden's playing style suits the 2011-2012 Lakers better than Kobe's current game does. So again, I ask for someone to actually put together a respectable argument, didn't think it was too much too ask for.

(Hopefully someone like Avenged or Shep or KB-Pau-D12 will read this, I need some sort of intelligence to enter this conversation).


Yes players age, but kobe is still playing at a high level. the man was competing with durant for the scoring title and then handed it over by resting for the playoffs instead of playing the last game. they were less then a point apart.

players age, but kobe is still playing at an elite level.

again kobe is the number 1 option on his team.

harden is the 3rd option on his team and the 6th man off the bench. teams dont try to shut harden down, they focus on durant and westbrook. the aposing teams best defender isnt on harden he is gaurding durant. . harden doesnt get double or triple teamed, durant does and then westbrook. theres a huge difference there

now lets flip the script and replace harden with kobe.

westbrook
kobe
durant
ibaka
perkins

okc would have already won atleast 1 ring.

Cali4rnia
05-11-2012, 01:25 PM
yeah when kobe turns 42 yeah this is possible lol :)

rapjuicer06
05-11-2012, 02:06 PM
I say yes.

Pau and Bynum would be much, much better with Harden for the sheer fact of how unselfish he is. Harden would become a less efficient player in doing so, but Bynum and Gasol would be better as well. Harden is better at developing for others than Kobe. Kobe is better at creating for himself. Other players on the Lakers team right now chuck the ball up because if they don't, Kobe will.

I think its fair to say Gasol is declining a bit, but he's still a good player. He can still shoot the ball. Take about 6 shots away from Kobe and he's still getting 20 shots a game, give those to more efficient players in Gasol and Bynum, and they could be scoring more points out of it.

Give Harden about 16 shots a game with that team, it'd spread it out the touches through out the team. Harden would still have Ramon too to create for him as well. Harden is a damn good slasher, shooter and penetrator. I personally think the Lakers would be better with Harden.

RaiderLakersA's
05-11-2012, 03:39 PM
No.

meloman1592
05-11-2012, 03:58 PM
no because when bynum gets his little attitude and gasol goes into "im a *****" mode, I don't think Harden could carry the team

JasonJohnHorn
05-11-2012, 04:05 PM
I say yes, only because I know Harden has no problem taking tough shots, but at the same time doesn't need the ball the way Kobe does, and with Gasol and Bynum in the post, I think the Lakers would be abel to play to their strong points, because lets face it, who else has two 7-footers that can guard those to? I know sometimes they don't force the issue, but I believe if they had more plays run for them, they'd be better. Kobe should not be taking more shots that Gasol and Bynum combined. It's just not going to win them a title this year.

THE MTL
05-11-2012, 04:15 PM
Umm, Harden isnt even 2nd option on his own team. And you want him taking over not only the 1st option on the Lakers but Kobe is one of the best 1st options in the whole league. Thread is ********. Disgrace to Kobe

Soonerule
05-11-2012, 04:19 PM
no because when bynum gets his little attitude and gasol goes into "im a *****" mode, I don't think Harden could carry the team

How much of Bynum getting his attitude and Gasol going into his "I'm a *****" mode could have something to do with this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAF-CgOovMA

The man is on my **** list, but ......

Even the ladies in the room are laughing their butts off....

fresh prince
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
They would be more efficient.. Just not better.

Efficiency isn't everything. Intangibles still exist and they play a role in Basketball perhaps more than any other sport. You just cant measure them so analytical types like the OP have a hard time gripping the reality of it.

Sucks but its fact...

fresh prince
05-11-2012, 07:16 PM
How much of Bynum getting his attitude and Gasol going into his "I'm a *****" mode could have something to do with this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAF-CgOovMA

The man is on my **** list, but ......

Even the ladies in the room are laughing their butts off....

That VIDEO IS 3 years old from when Ron first joined the Lakers.. So you're completely misinterpreting the context. But **** it whatever works for you.

C-Style
05-11-2012, 08:11 PM
I don't think Harden would lead a team to 3 Finals and win 2 Finals MVP with Gasol. He would be the focal point in the perimeter, What ppl don't get is that teams throw the sink at Kobe, they watch video to stop him, they acquire players to stop him, they double team him and triple team him. I just can't see Harden dealing with all that well. Who ever thinks he can deserves a huge facepalm.

Soonerule
05-11-2012, 08:21 PM
That VIDEO IS 3 years old from when Ron first joined the Lakers.. So you're completely misinterpreting the context. But **** it whatever works for you.

I know how old the video is, its dated. What exactly is there about that video to misinterpret? Or what I saw on the floor the last 2 games? Why is it Gasol played with some energy in game 5 and just mailed in game 6? Could it be that Kobe started off game 5 colder than bin Laden's left nut and Gasol thought there was at least a chance he would pass the ball? Maybe there is something I am missing, but why when Kobe heated up in the 4th of game 5 did Gasol and Bynum shut down? Then he starts off game 6 hot and they never show up? But, as you say, **** it, this series extending to 7 games has worked out perfectly for me, every game it has extended has allowed Perk's hip flexor another day to heal.

C-Style
05-11-2012, 08:22 PM
My god, you people realize that players age right? As in, they get older? Obviously Kobe has accomplished more and accumulated more experience over the years... But that doesn't automatically make him the better player RIGHT NOW.

He's become inefficient as all hell, and hasn't been even close to what he used to be. To say that this topic is "outrageous" or whatever other adjective you want to use is ridiculous in my opinion. Like I said in the original post, I'm open to the debate which is why I brought it up, but if the answer is "because he's older and has won more", then I'm not buying that. Show me why Kobe THIS SEASON is a better fit for the Lakers than Harden.

He's a chucker, inefficient, in over his head, and fails to realize he can't play the way he used to. Meanwhile, Harden has become the most efficient pure scorer in the NBA and the leading playmaker on a team that finished with the better record.

I'm not annoyed because people disagree with the notion, I'm annoyed because I've yet to see a respectable, valid argument as to why they think Kobe is so much more valuable to the Lakers than a potential Harden-led team. That, and the fact that Harden's playing style suits the 2011-2012 Lakers better than Kobe's current game does. So again, I ask for someone to actually put together a respectable argument, didn't think it was too much too ask for.

(Hopefully someone like Avenged or Shep or KB-Pau-D12 will read this, I need some sort of intelligence to enter this conversation).


But why u mad? u didn't get the response u were looking for??? u didn't get a solid response because this question doesn't deserve 1, I'm actually pissed at myself for replying to this. You need to know their is a big difference between a 3rd option to a focal perennial star who gets the full attention of the opposing team.

In the Lakers, he won't even be the best player in the team, I think you would have to make Gasol/Bynum the 1st options and make him play off them like he does with Durant/Westbrook team to be successful cause him "leading the team is not going down". It's like arguing he should be the 1st option in OKC.

theheatles
05-11-2012, 08:26 PM
i just imagined kobe on the thunder instead of harden and that made the answer to this poll a resounding no

adidas2307
05-11-2012, 09:03 PM
But why u mad? u didn't get the response u were looking for??? u didn't get a solid response because this question doesn't deserve 1, I'm actually pissed at myself for replying to this. You need to know their is a big difference between a 3rd option to a focal perennial star who gets the full attention of the opposing team.

In the Lakers, he won't even be the best player in the team, I think you would have to make Gasol/Bynum the 1st options and make him play off them like he does with Durant/Westbrook team to be successful cause him "leading the team is not going down". It's like arguing he should be the 1st option in OKC.

I'm pissed at you for replying too. You need to know there is a big difference between there and their.

kyubi256
05-11-2012, 09:05 PM
No way Jose... Harden is good but he is a Jason Terry and Lamar Odom type player. He is best off the bench, and the Lakers need more than that

ChiSox219
05-11-2012, 10:33 PM
Don't know, don't think so though..

Harden comes off the bench as a 3rd option, I'd like to see how he would do as the 1st. Not saying he can't but it's hard to say that he would excel Kobe when he's never been in that position.

Harden plays at >40% usage rate without Durant and Westbrook. Based on his production and skills I think Harden would have no trouble carrying an offense. Also, Harden could easily fit in as a #3 and produce more quality shots for Gasol and Bynum,.


My god, you people realize that players age right? As in, they get older? Obviously Kobe has accomplished more and accumulated more experience over the years... But that doesn't automatically make him the better player RIGHT NOW.

He's become inefficient as all hell, and hasn't been even close to what he used to be. To say that this topic is "outrageous" or whatever other adjective you want to use is ridiculous in my opinion. Like I said in the original post, I'm open to the debate which is why I brought it up, but if the answer is "because he's older and has won more", then I'm not buying that. Show me why Kobe THIS SEASON is a better fit for the Lakers than Harden.

He's a chucker, inefficient, in over his head, and fails to realize he can't play the way he used to. Meanwhile, Harden has become the most efficient pure scorer in the NBA and the leading playmaker on a team that finished with the better record.

I'm not annoyed because people disagree with the notion, I'm annoyed because I've yet to see a respectable, valid argument as to why they think Kobe is so much more valuable to the Lakers than a potential Harden-led team. That, and the fact that Harden's playing style suits the 2011-2012 Lakers better than Kobe's current game does. So again, I ask for someone to actually put together a respectable argument, didn't think it was too much too ask for.

(Hopefully someone like Avenged or Shep or KB-Pau-D12 will read this, I need some sort of intelligence to enter this conversation).

I don't think it's just Kobe, it seems like a lot of posters just aren't that familiar with Harden example:


No way Jose... Harden is good but he is a Jason Terry and Lamar Odom type player. He is best off the bench, and the Lakers need more than that

Baller1
05-11-2012, 10:35 PM
But why u mad? u didn't get the response u were looking for??? u didn't get a solid response because this question doesn't deserve 1, I'm actually pissed at myself for replying to this. You need to know their is a big difference between a 3rd option to a focal perennial star who gets the full attention of the opposing team.

In the Lakers, he won't even be the best player in the team, I think you would have to make Gasol/Bynum the 1st options and make him play off them like he does with Durant/Westbrook team to be successful cause him "leading the team is not going down". It's like arguing he should be the 1st option in OKC.

Hmmm... So that entire post all you decided to respond to was why no one can provide me with a proper response.

You epitomize why mant people consider the NBA forum elementary.

still1ballin
05-11-2012, 10:46 PM
:laugh2:

lakers4sho
05-11-2012, 10:57 PM
Yes

Raph12
05-12-2012, 12:55 PM
Been said several times throughout the thread, we haven't seen Harden handle a #1 option's pressure... With that being said, if you replace Kobe with Harden, Bynum and Pau will get more touches, so their is a good debate there.

Hawkeye15
05-12-2012, 12:58 PM
on paper, the Lakers wouldn't skip a beat (looking at their production). But we haven't seen Harden face the pressure of being the face of the franchise and a #1 option, so my answer is no, the Lakers would not be better off with Harden.

fresh prince
05-12-2012, 04:07 PM
I know how old the video is, its dated. What exactly is there about that video to misinterpret? Or what I saw on the floor the last 2 games? Why is it Gasol played with some energy in game 5 and just mailed in game 6? Could it be that Kobe started off game 5 colder than bin Laden's left nut and Gasol thought there was at least a chance he would pass the ball? Maybe there is something I am missing, but why when Kobe heated up in the 4th of game 5 did Gasol and Bynum shut down? Then he starts off game 6 hot and they never show up? But, as you say, **** it, this series extending to 7 games has worked out perfectly for me, every game it has extended has allowed Perk's hip flexor another day to heal.

This is Exactly my point. Your opinion on the situation is already made up.. So in your mind these events that really have no relation are used to reinforce your belief. Its human nature.

In the video in question..Ron was brand new to the Lakers this video was shot after Ron CAME to the Lakers after walking in the shower after the Lakers lost in the finals and telling Kobe "Im coming to La to help you". He was merely sharing his excitement to play with Kobe (who he admires and respects) with some fans.. " Pass to Kobe"

Kobe Bynum and Pau have 2 championships together they have been playing with each other for a long time now.. Kobe is and always be the same guy. He likes to shoot the rock this is not a new concept to these dudes. They never showed up because Denver collapsed on them post each time they got the rock and in general neither guy is the definition of heart or hustle. They pick and choose their spots to show grit.

Lastly you don't have anything to worry about the Thunder are safe. In fact you would be better off facing the Lakers than Denver. The Nuggets are a team with heart and they are hungry.. The Lakers only have 2-3 guys who fit that same description.