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View Full Version : 2012 NBA ReDraft WC Finals - #1) San Antonio Spurs vs. #3) New Orleans Hornets



KnicksorBust
05-09-2012, 09:48 PM
Welcome to the 2012 NBA ReDraft voting process. The redraft is exactly how it sounds. The rosters of every NBA team are cleared and then drafted again from scratch. Posters from the site draft full rosters under a salary cap and then there is a voting process to make the playoffs. We are now in the playoffs and the head to head matchups have begun. Please remember to vote for the roster and write-up you believe would win a 7 game series and leave any of your personal preference for the real teams out of your decision. Thank you and enjoy the playoffs!

Spurs:
PG: Chris Paul | John Lucas III | Patty Mills
SG: Rip Hamilton | C.J. Miles
SF: Kawhi Leonard | Martell Webster
PF: Elton Brand | Kenyon Martin
C: Al Jefferson | Ian Mahinmi | Anthony Tolliver

Hornets:
G: Mo Williams - Beno Udrih
G: Dwyane Wade - Klay Thompson
F: Gerald Wallace - Reggie Williams - Chris Singleton
F: Paul Millsap - Markieff Morris
C: Tiago Splitter - Greg Stiemsma - Erick Dampier



First of all, congratulations is in order for chaca and Catfish. They did a real nice job with assembling that team and advancing through the playoffs.

I'm not going to go on a super long match-up breakdown in this write-up and trash on the Spurs roster. Maybe that's what many will want to see/hear, but I think there's been enough BS and hostility in this re-draft as is. I'll just throw out a game plan/talk about our team and let the voters think and form their own opinion for now.


Overall, this series provides some very interesting match-ups and situations. The 3 strongest starting positions for the Hornets happen to be the 3 weakest positions for the Spurs at SG, SF, and PF. Same goes for our 2 weakest positions being their strongest points at PG and C.

It may look like an uphill battle for us facing off against the #1 seed, but it's going to be hard to rule out any team lead by Dwyane Wade. As much as I may resent him on a personal level, this guy gets it done, and will be our first line of attack offensively. Wade is a big time playoff performer and will be able to rise to the challenge of putting this team on his back if need be.

Now, getting Wade off to a quick start and letting him attack from the beginning will open up the possibility of numerous positive outcomes for our team, from opening up opportunities for others to creating foul situations for the opponent. The more pressure Wade is able to apply, the more we'll be able to get guys like Gerald Wallace working into the soft areas of the defense without the ball, Mo Williams spacing the floor and creating his own opportunities, and Paul Millsap and Tiago Splitter finishing down low with efficiency. Getting these guys baskets with lower defensive resistance will be a huge boost to our offense and overall game.

Helping Wade out on our front line are two of the most efficient big men in the NBA this season with Splitter and Millsap.

Millsap: 21.8 PER, 54.5 TS%, 15.4 TRB%, 12.4 AST%, 23.2 USG%, 2.9 STL%, 2.0 BLK%, 0.96 PPP, 48.5 %Score
Splitter: 20.5 PER, 64.9 TS%, 15.7 TRB%, 9.2 AST%, 20.7 USG%, 1.0 STL%, 3.0 BLK%, 1.08 PPP, 55.3 %Score

Both big men are solid rebounders and provide us with nice interior passing. While Millsap will be our primary #2 option to create offense, it won't be easy to leave Splitter unattended or take your eye off of a cutting Gerald Wallace.

All while Mo Williams is perched outside with deadly accuracy as a spot-up shooter; Hitting 41.8% of his 3-point shots in such situations, adding in a 1.12 PPP.


Defensively, we have a very nice look as well with good to great individual defenders like Wade, Wallace, Millsap, Stiemsma, and Singleton. And some guys that are really capable of stepping up and provide great team defense and rotations like Splitter, Markieff Morris, and Reggie Williams.

A main factor that will help our defense become seemingly more potent is our ability to create turnovers and turn them into points. Wade, Wallace, Singleton, Millsap and Mo Williams are all fantastic at stealing the ball and forcing opponents into mistakes. While Wade, Stiemsma, Splitter, Wallace, Millsap, Dampier, and Markieff do a good job of protecting the rim and/or getting blocks man-to-man.

Wade: 2.7 STL%, 3.1 BLK%, 9.9 %TO
Wallace: 2.2 STL%, 1.3 BLK%, 8.6 %TO
Millsap: 2.9 STL%, 2.0 BLK%, 9.3 %TO
Splitter: 1.0 STL%, 3.0 BLK%, 8.7 %TO
Williams: 1.9 STL%, 0.4 BLK%, 12.3 %TO
Singleton: 2.5 STL%, 1.5 BLK%, 7.9 %TO
Morris: 1.7 STL%, 2.5 BLK%, 9.0 %TO
Stiemsma: 2.6 STL%, 8.5 BLK%, 9.9 %TO
Dampier: 0.6 STL%, 3.7 BLK%, 7.1 %TO

This will only make our potent offensive weapons better and give them easier opportunities in situations in which they thrive. Wade and G-Force on the fast break will be nearly certain easy points each time with their ability to finish or draw contact. Plus Mo Williams' ability to score in transition and pull up for the transition 3, which he has hit at a remarkable 50% clip this season.


Our bench isn't much to scoff at either. Beno Udrih returning to a positive situation outside of the constant strain and herky jerky lineups of Scott Skiles will benefit him pretty well. He should have no trouble returning to his efficient self and will be a very nice option to create for us off the bench.

Klay Thompson put together a very nice season, especially with the absence of Steph. He'll provide us with a nice scoring spark and will abuse the net from downtown (41.4%) and a 24.7 USG%.

Reggie Williams and Markieff Morris give us even more shooting ability and solid defensive contributors. While Stiemsma and Singleton provide us with big defensive boosts.

That's about all the rambling time I have though, so good luck to the Spurs. May the better team win.



1 San Antonio Spurs vs. 3 New Orleans Hornets

Congratulations to kingbrent, chitownbulls, and ABOMB for advancing to the Western Conference Finals. They built an excellent team well-deserving of a deep postseason run.

As attractive as the Hornets are on paper, this is actually by far the most favorable match-up we have drawn in the playoffs. Our two strongest players (Chris Paul and Al Jefferson) will be pitted against their two weakest starters (Mo Williams and Tiago Splitter/Greg Stiemsma), and our most prominent defender, Elton Brand, will be tasked with checking their second option in Paul Millsap.

As outlined in previous write-ups, Al Jefferson possesses perhaps the most proficient, refined, and effective interior offensive game in basketball. This season, he converted on 58% of baskets within nine feet of the rim and less than fifty percent of those scores were assisted on. Jefferson is a borderline dominant interior scorer WITHOUT the league's premier floor general to find shots for him.

In our offense, Jefferson will absolutely thrive alongside the best distributor in basketball and a complementary high post power forward in Elton Brand, who is converting nearly 47% of midrange shots between 10-15 feet and ranks among the league's fifty most proficient spot-up shooters (53%, 1.09 PPP).

Tiago Splitter will likely log the bulk of the Hornets minutes at center, which bodes well for Jefferson. In a large sample size, Splitter ranks in the bottom half of the league defending post-up plays. In fact, he surrenders a score on fifty percent of the post up plays he defends and his opponents shot nearly 52% on such plays. In a much smaller sample size, Stiemsma was more effective as an interior defender. But the Hornets can't expect a rookie who logged 14 minutes a game this year to keep up with the most prominent interior scorer in the game.

Referencing head-to-head match-ups between Brand and Millsap would probably be irrelevant since it was likely Brand defended Jefferson in the last several meetings (though it may be worth mentioning that Millsap shot 32% from the field in two games against Brand this year), but Brand's capacity as an interior defender is certainly relevant.

Brand only gives up a score on 35% of the post-up plays and spot-up shots he defends (on 34% shooting), which is where 40% of Millsap's offense comes from. With Brand defending him, Millsap is highly unlikely to achieve his season averages in this series.

On the perimeter, Kawhi Leonard and Rip Hamilton would shoulder the heavy burden of defending Dwyane Wade. As the numbers attest, both players are capable defenders. But this is the playoffs. Wade will get his and we can't stop him.

With that in mind, the Hornets can't stop Chris Paul either. And unless they want to exhaust Wade's stamina on the defensive end of the floor, Paul is far more likely to ignite Mo Williams and Beno Udrih than Wade is to burn Leonard, Hamilton, Webster, etc.

Our chief goal in stopping the Hornets is executing our own offense. The bulk of Gerald Wallace's scoring comes from cuts to the basket and finishes in transition. Wade also finds 20% of his offensive output in transition. For New Orleans devastating transition offense to come into play, we have to turn the ball over. Al Jefferson has led the league in turnover percentage the last two years (one turnover a game despite a 25.7 USG%) and Chris Paul is arguably the best point guard in the league taking care of the ball (9.1 assists to 2.1 turnovers and a 24.3 USG%).

While the Hornets built a strong lineup, this is about as favorable a match-up for us as we could have drawn this deep in the playoffs. In fact, it borders on a nightmare match-up for them. New Orleans has nothing to prevent Chris Paul and Al Jefferson from running rampant over the course of this seven game series and a combination of our stout interior defense, highly efficient offense, and homecourt advantage will overwhelm them in the end.

KnicksorBust
05-09-2012, 09:51 PM
It's easier for the Spurs to matchup with Wade than it is for the Hornets to matchup with CP3. Plus the Al Jeff advantage puts this over the top. Spurs deserve to make it to the finals.

roshan3ai
05-09-2012, 10:09 PM
Tiago vs. Al Jeff and Mo Williams vs. CP is just killer

Green_Monster
05-09-2012, 10:12 PM
I went with the Spurs. The Hornets are a good team, they just don't match up well with the Spurs.

It'sMyTime
05-09-2012, 10:26 PM
The fact that no one on the Hornets can guard Paul would make it tough for the Hornets to win. One of their best assets Wallace's defense will not go very far since Paul and Jefferson are bad matchups for him. Im going with the Spurs making it to the finals

VCaintdead17
05-09-2012, 10:29 PM
Damn fine write up Brent.

VCaintdead17
05-09-2012, 10:31 PM
Both team made great write ups actually.

Catfish1314
05-09-2012, 10:32 PM
damn fine write up brent.

:(


both team made great write ups actually.

:)

Chacarron
05-09-2012, 10:36 PM
The fact that no one on the Hornets can guard Paul would make it tough for the Hornets to win. One of their best assets Wallace's defense will not go very far since Paul and Jefferson are bad matchups for him. Im going with the Spurs making it to the finals

Thanks for the vote.

I just want to point out that Gerald Wallace has been absolutely terrible on defense this season. He allowed 0.91 PPP this season (while with the Blazers, bigger sample size).

Eagles4Lyfe
05-09-2012, 10:43 PM
The fact that no one on the Hornets can guard Paul would make it tough for the Hornets to win. One of their best assets Wallace's defense will not go very far since Paul and Jefferson are bad matchups for him. Im going with the Spurs making it to the finals

Yes he can he can put Wade on CP3 and Mo on Rip, he doesn't have to put Mo on CP3.

Hornets can manipulate the defense in their favour and I've really liked this team since the start and I don't think either teams bench gives a big advantage over the other and both write ups were phenomenal.

I dunno man I want to see some more arguing if there is any before making a vote cause it's really really tough for me to give the vote to someone right now.

mightybosstone
05-09-2012, 10:43 PM
The Hornets are a good team, but similarly to my matchup with the Spurs, they do not have an answer for Jefferson. The worst part is that they have no one to handle Paul. If I were them, I would have included in my writeup that Wade will defend Paul. Mo would get beat by Rip, but he'd get absolutely torched by Paul. Regardless, I don't think it makes much of a defense.

Wade, alone, would keep this series relatively close, but the Spurs would win in 6.

mightybosstone
05-09-2012, 10:48 PM
Yes he can he can put Wade on CP3 and Mo on Rip, he doesn't have to put Mo on CP3.
That SHOULD have been the argument, but since the Hornets didn't say that, we can't assume that. Even if they did, though, the Spurs are just more balanced and are better constructed.


Hornets can manipulate the defense in their favour and I've really liked this team since the start and I don't think either teams bench gives a big advantage over the other and both write ups were phenomenal.
But even with my hatred of Al Jeff, I can't ignore Splitter against him. That's just an awful matchup. And Millsap isn't going to help in that regard. The Hornets would get absolutely mauled inside by Brand and Jefferson.

Catfish1314
05-09-2012, 10:48 PM
Yes he can he can put Wade on CP3 and Mo on Rip, he doesn't have to put Mo on CP3.

Hornets can manipulate the defense in their favour and I've really liked this team since the start and I don't think either teams bench gives a big advantage over the other and both write ups were phenomenal.

I dunno man I want to see some more arguing if there is any before making a vote cause it's really really tough for me to give the vote to someone right now.

I don't want to get into an all-out argument, but it wouldn't be wise for the Hornets to use Wade to check Paul for long stretches just as it wouldn't be wise for us to use Paul to defend Wade. Neither team can afford to use its best offensive player to defend the opposition's best offensive player.

If the Hornets were the real-life Heat and Wade could afford to exhaust more energy defensively knowing he has Bosh and LeBron to pick up the slack offensively, it would be a different story.

NYMetros
05-09-2012, 10:49 PM
Both are good teams deserving of making it to the WCF. I'll go with the Spurs, mainly because of the Paul/Jefferson duo. That's just so dominant offensively. Rip, Kahwi and Brand are good role players as well. Spurs in 6 or 7 I think

mightybosstone
05-09-2012, 10:49 PM
I don't want to get into an all-out argument, but it wouldn't be wise for the Hornets to use Wade to check Paul for long stretches just as it wouldn't be wise for us to use Paul to defend Wade. Neither team can afford to use its best offensive player to defend the opposition's best offensive player.
But I think you and I could both agree that Wade would have a hell of a lot easier time with Paul than Paul would with Wade. Wade is just too strong for Paul.

Catfish1314
05-09-2012, 10:57 PM
But I think you and I could both agree that Wade would have a hell of a lot easier time with Paul than Paul would with Wade. Wade is just too strong for Paul.

I agree to an extent. Only because Wade has some length to compensate, but I don't think either player could really stay in front of the other for extended stretches. Fortunately we have Al Jefferson to make up the difference.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-09-2012, 10:58 PM
That SHOULD have been the argument, but since the Hornets didn't say that, we can't assume that. Even if they did, though, the Spurs are just more balanced and are better constructed.


But even with my hatred of Al Jeff, I can't ignore Splitter against him. That's just an awful matchup. And Millsap isn't going to help in that regard. The Hornets would get absolutely mauled inside by Brand and Jefferson.
Well I haven't watched much of the Spurs but since your a Rockets fan I'm sure you follow the Spurs thoroughly and I'll take your word for it. It's just I haven't watched much of Splitter and I don't want my unknown perception of him screwing the hornets possibly over which is why I want to hold of for a bit.

N I agree with your first part but Brent says he'll point out the main points and wanted us to figure out the matchups so I was just thinking out loud I guess.

I don't want to get into an all-out argument, but it wouldn't be wise for the Hornets to use Wade to check Paul for long stretches just as it wouldn't be wise for us to use Paul to defend Wade. Neither team can afford to use its best offensive player to defend the opposition's best offensive player.

If the Hornets were the real-life Heat and Wade could afford to exhaust more energy defensively knowing he has Bosh and LeBron to pick up the slack offensively, it would be a different story.

Well I get what your saying cause if Paul gets tired for you can easily just feed it down to the post which is why if he atleast had a sick 6th man of the bench or a big bench advantage over you I would've instantly gave him the vote but he doesn't and I'm leaning towards spurs right now.

Sadds The Gr8
05-09-2012, 10:59 PM
still not a fan of Paul and Jefferson 1-2 punch but they have to 2 biggest mis-matches in the series so I say Spurs in 7.

PocketKings
05-09-2012, 11:48 PM
I think this is one helluva match-up but in the end the balance that CP3 and Al Jeff will bring is to much for the Hornets. I'm not a fan at all of the Hornets floor spacing and I think the mismatches for CP3/Al Jeff will be to much here. The Spurs at least have a VERY GOOD defensive presence to counter the Hornets #2 option in Paul Milsap and G-Force isn't the type of really dominate a game offensively.

I think in the end the Spurs win it in 6 on the shoulders of the great CP3.

Sadds The Gr8
05-09-2012, 11:59 PM
should made the poll 2 hrs before it gets raided with dupes :laugh:

Eagles4Lyfe
05-10-2012, 12:15 AM
already where??

Sadds The Gr8
05-10-2012, 12:16 AM
they never came yet, I'm just sayin to get this over with quick before they come lol

PatsSoxKnicks
05-10-2012, 01:42 PM
Great write-ups by both teams but went with the Spurs. As mentioned by most people, CP3 and Jefferson have favorable matchups. I'm a fan of Splitter though but he is weaker defensively.

Minor quip with the Hornets write-up (which was very good), are those forced TOV%'s really that great? The league average TOV% is around 13% based on basketball-reference but synergy counts plays differently (plays include offensive rebounds starting a new "play" whereas possessions do not include plays). So because of that, its kind of tough to tell whats a good forced TOV% from synergy unless you just eyeball it. And from eyeballing a fair share amount of players, I think it's probably anything over 10% being good. I think we can safely assume CP3 is one of the league's better players in forcing TOVs and he's at 14.9% %TOV. So I would say based on that 1 statistic, only Mo is really good at forcing turnovers. Although, a lot of your players have good steal%'s.

Anyways, as Catty mentioned in his write-up, Al and CP3 are low turnover rate players so forcing turnovers and getting out in transition is going to be tough for the Hornets.

Also, since I mentioned a minor quip with the Hornets write-up, should probably mention that Ast-TOV ratio is not that good of a stat (great write-up though Catty, you definitely convinced me, though I was already convinced lol). It incorrectly weights assists (an assists' worth is debatable but no way its the exact same amount as a TOV).

For example, from hoopdata, CP3 assists on 7.1 assists per 40 minutes leading to 2FG and 2.8 ap40 leading to 3FG. When you pace adjust that, its .0926 per poss for 2FG and .0365 per poss for 3FG. Then if you believe half credit should go to the person making the pass and half credit should go to the person making the basket (thats arbitrary and probably makes no sense), for CP3, you'd get .0926*.5*2 (2 being for 2 points) and then you'd have .0548*.5*3 (3 being for how much a 3 point FG is worth)= .0548. Add those 2 up and then subtract TOVs * league average points per possession and you have an assist-turnover stat that actually makes some sense. For CP3, I found that was .116 (or basically the amount of points you create per possession from just assists and turnovers). Multiply that by 100 and you'd have points created off assists and turnovers per 100 possessions.

Thats probably a poor method (credit shouldn't be split 50-50 IMO) but it at least weights assists and turnovers properly, rather than assigning a value of 1 to each. You could also use Hollinger's pure point rating, assuming you are ok with giving the person making the assist only 1/3 of the credit (and the person making the basket 2/3rds credit).

Anyways, that was off-topic (sorry Catty and kingbrent lol) but I like Spurs because of the mismatches they create at PG and C. Tiago isn't much of a defensive player and Brand should be able to slow down Millsap significantly.

Rivera
05-10-2012, 01:55 PM
spurs are my favotire to win it all im probably gonna vote spurs...ill wait to see how the votes go though because if they get outta control like how i think (not in a spam sort of way) im gonna give brent my pity vote

PatsSoxKnicks
05-10-2012, 02:03 PM
spurs are my favotire to win it all im probably gonna vote spurs...ill wait to see how the votes go though because if they get outta control like how i think (not in a spam sort of way) im gonna give brent my pity vote

Thats exactly how the dupes could affect voting (I know you said you didn't understand how the dupe votes could impact voting in the Hawks-Knicks thread, well thats how). Someone goes up a lot due to dupes and the other person might start getting pity votes. Not saying you would do that, just making a generalization about how dupe votes could affect voting.

And anyways, why would you give someone a pity vote? lol

Rivera
05-10-2012, 02:11 PM
Thats exactly how the dupes could affect voting (I know you said you didn't understand how the dupe votes could impact voting in the Hawks-Knicks thread, well thats how). Someone goes up a lot due to dupes and the other person might start getting pity votes. Not saying you would do that, just making a generalization about how dupe votes could affect voting.

And anyways, why would you give someone a pity vote? lol

dupes dont affect votes because they dont count. the dupes sure affected the knicks hawks series because the dupes voted hawks and the knicks got eliminated right??? its impossible to affect the votes if they dont count :shrug:


and id give brent my pity vote everyday of the week cause thats my boy

Rivera
05-10-2012, 02:12 PM
and when i say a spam sort of way i mean dupes....i dont mean legit votes because legit votes wise i honestly dont think the hornets stand a chance

unless the "bulls croonies" show up :eyebrow:

mightybosstone
05-10-2012, 02:26 PM
Thats exactly how the dupes could affect voting (I know you said you didn't understand how the dupe votes could impact voting in the Hawks-Knicks thread, well thats how). Someone goes up a lot due to dupes and the other person might start getting pity votes. Not saying you would do that, just making a generalization about how dupe votes could affect voting.

And anyways, why would you give someone a pity vote? lol

I said something very similar in the other thread. Also, if you see one team has a huge portion of the vote and you take a quick glance at the rosters, that might influence your vote even if the winning team has like 50 percent dupe votes. Or you might vote for the team with the most votes so as to not appear stupid or to agree with the masses.

There are a number of ways dupe votes can affect voting, and I think they should be taken out of the equation altogether.

Rivera
05-10-2012, 02:29 PM
its time to get over the knicks-hawks series guys....this is a new series...any qualms or comments about that series should be discussed in the redraft lounge....clearly the dupes didnt have enough an effect cause the knicks won so lets drop it

lets give these 2 gms the credit and attention they deserve and focus on this series and not talk about knicks-hawks cause its over and the knicks won....this is the spurs-hornets thread not hawks-knicks

mightybosstone
05-10-2012, 03:17 PM
its time to get over the knicks-hawks series guys....this is a new series...any qualms or comments about that series should be discussed in the redraft lounge....clearly the dupes didnt have enough an effect cause the knicks won so lets drop it

lets give these 2 gms the credit and attention they deserve and focus on this series and not talk about knicks-hawks cause its over and the knicks won....this is the spurs-hornets thread not hawks-knicks

Oh god... I apologize if PSK and I damaged your delicate sensibilities. :rolleyes: And, no, we were not discussing the other series, but rather dupes in general and how they ruin re-draft voting.

I doubt very seriously that the GMs give a damn if we discuss re-draft voting in their thread, but if they do, I apologize. Both teams have clearly built talented squads to get this far, but the Spurs also seem to match up extremely well with the Hornets, so I doubt very seriously we'll see a comeback at this point.

DR_1
05-10-2012, 03:47 PM
Spurs, Al Jeff will destroy Splitter in the paint. AND the Spurs have Chris Paul, and their wings are not terrible. San Antonio in 5.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-10-2012, 09:59 PM
bumpski

John Walls Era
05-10-2012, 10:04 PM
Spurs, Al Jeff will destroy Splitter in the paint. AND the Spurs have Chris Paul, and their wings are not terrible. San Antonio in 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lawKYban42w

Sorry bud, Splitter is the best.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-10-2012, 11:03 PM
After sleeping on it and doin more research I think Spurs take this series

PatsSoxKnicks
05-10-2012, 11:34 PM
http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player-vs-player.html#Tiago-Splitter-vs-Al-Jefferson|201168,2744;year=201112;season=r

Jefferson has abused Splitter this year.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-11-2012, 04:28 PM
bump