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View Full Version : Should Tony Parker be in the discussion for best PG?



Bring The Heat
05-08-2012, 04:56 PM
What Skip Bayless debated on First Take and his recent tweet:


Skip Bayless ‏ @RealSkipBayless
TParker now little better PG than CP3. Quicker, better penetrator & midrange j-shooter, nearly as good a passer. Finals MVP & this season's.




Does he actually have a valid point? Tony Parker has to be one of the best in getting to the rim and finishing, along with a nice mid range game and this year he's been assisting the ball very well.

If you ask me I'll say Cp3 but I think you can make a case for Tony Parker being up there with the best. At the very least top 3 in the league. Dude has been so underrated his whole career. He does it all on the court and plays his position at a high level.

Thoughts?

Swashcuff
05-08-2012, 05:07 PM
The what have you done for me lately syndrome. Skip Bayless is a tool and no he doesn't have a point. Parker should be in the MVP discussion but not the best PG in the NBA. As of right now CP3 and Derrick Rose own that discussion IMO. And no Parker isn't nearly as good a passer nor does he have a better mid range J than CP3.

Paul is the best PG in the game followed by Rose and then Parker begins to get into the discussion along with Westbrook, Nash and Williams.

Hawkeye15
05-08-2012, 05:13 PM
Bayless is a troll.

Parker has a case for a share of the MVP award, and even has a case for 1st team all NBA. But CP3 has been the best PG for 5 years.

lakerboy
05-08-2012, 05:16 PM
The what have you done for me lately syndrome. Skip Bayless is a tool and no he doesn't have a point. Parker should be in the MVP discussion but not the best PG in the NBA. As of right now CP3 and Derrick Rose own that discussion IMO. And no Parker isn't nearly as good a passer nor does he have a better mid range J than CP3.

Paul is the best PG in the game followed by Rose and then Parker begins to get into the discussion along with Westbrook, Nash and Williams.

DRose shouldn't be in the discussion for the best PG this year because he barely played. Tony Parker is the most underrated PG ever

Shammyguy3
05-08-2012, 05:16 PM
Him stating that Parker has a better mid-range jump shot than Paul immediately disqualifies this discussion

Bruno
05-08-2012, 05:17 PM
conveniently enough, we'll be able to watch this match up next round.

Cal827
05-08-2012, 05:18 PM
Him stating that Parker has a better mid-range jump shot than Paul immediately disqualifies this discussion

lol It took you that long to ignore this discussion? I just saw

@RealSkipBayless and dismissed it as "jar-gin from a crack addict that is employed by ESPN" :pity:

Bring The Heat
05-08-2012, 05:19 PM
conveniently enough, we'll be able to watch this match up next round.

I hope so.. really looking forward to seeing CP3 and Parker go at it. Parker might be the best PG finishing at the rim in traffic imo

NYYCowboys
05-08-2012, 05:19 PM
I think this year he definitely was. He would be 2nd or 3rd on my MVP ballot.

Kashmir13579
05-08-2012, 05:20 PM
Bayless is hilarious.

I want to argue that Tony Parker has an argument every year as the best PG. He's highly underrated by many. But then i think about what CP3 would've done with that supporting cast. :drool: seriously :drool::drool::drool:

Avenged
05-08-2012, 05:20 PM
I'd say he's made himself into the top 3.

If the Clippers close their series out, we'll see a great match-up in Chris Paul vs. Tony Parker. :D Tony Parker can tighten the gap with a good performance and series win.

KnicksorBust
05-08-2012, 05:22 PM
Paul played more minutes, more games, scored more points, had more rebounds, had more assists, had less turnovers, had more steals, was better defensively, was a much more effecient scorer, can shoot from the perimeter, got to the foul line more, and was better in clutch situations.

What am I missing?

Ebbs
05-08-2012, 05:22 PM
He is having a career year.

I'd still rather have CP3, healthy D-rose for sure. But he is arguable for #3 with deron, westy, nash

Vincent
05-08-2012, 05:23 PM
Tony Parker has done nothing this year or years past to indicate to me that he's a better point guard than CP3 at any point of his career.

Joshtd1
05-08-2012, 05:23 PM
Even as a Spurs fan, no way is TP the better overall player. CP3's vision is what puts him above TP to me.

Fwiw, TP and CP3 have always had damn good head to matchups pretty much every time they play against one each other.

I do think TP is a top 5 PG for sure though.

Max.This
05-08-2012, 05:25 PM
Bayless is a troll.

Parker has a case for a share of the MVP award, and even has a case for 1st team all NBA. But CP3 has been the best PG for 5 years.

I would still take nash in his prime. Nash is a better shooter and probably just as good of a passer and this was 5 years ago. Of course for the sake of argument i guess CP3 is the best, but who cares who's the best if clips doesnt pass the spurs (assuming they wrap up the grizz series).

KnicksorBust
05-08-2012, 05:29 PM
Bayless is a troll.

Parker has a case for a share of the MVP award, and even has a case for 1st team all NBA. But CP3 has been the best PG for 5 years.

I actually like him from an entertainment standpoint but sometimes I just wish they'd get someone on First Take who actually knew their **** and could tear these guys apart. I think it was Todd McShay who nailed Skip on some NFL Draft comments. It was a good segment.

Joshtd1
05-08-2012, 05:30 PM
Also fwiw I do think its ridiculous he only averages 4.1 FT per game as much as he lives in the paint and gets in there. If he would actually get more calls like he deserves his scoring would be up and he'd be more highly regarded

NYYCowboys
05-08-2012, 05:33 PM
Also fwiw I do think its ridiculous he only averages 4.1 FT per game as much as he lives in the paint and gets in there. If he would actually get more calls like he deserves his scoring would be up and he'd be more highly regarded

Like Lebron and DWade?

Kashmir13579
05-08-2012, 05:34 PM
See this is why TP is underrated though, why is he only getting recognition as a top PG now, when he's won multiple titles and putting up the same numbers since 06?

When has he not been a top PG in the last several years?? People are acting like this is a breakout season for him.

Kashmir13579
05-08-2012, 05:37 PM
I would still take nash in his prime. Nash is a better shooter and probably just as good of a passer and this was 5 years ago. Of course for the sake of argument i guess CP3 is the best, but who cares who's the best if clips doesnt pass the spurs (assuming they wrap up the grizz series).

5 years ago is when CP3 became CP3.

Joshtd1
05-08-2012, 05:39 PM
See this is why TP is underrated though, why is he only getting recognition as a top PG now, when he's won multiple titles and putting up the same numbers since 06?

When has he not been a top PG in the last several years?? People are acting like this is a breakout season for him.

Agreed. I think a lot of it has to do with that were actually a legit contender this year. The last time we had a shot was in 08. Even last year even though we had the #1 seed we were flawed, and have addressed those flaws this year.

BSardogan
05-08-2012, 05:40 PM
Yes, he deserves to be in it. He's a top 5, maybe this season even a top 3 PG. But no, he's not it.

Catfish1314
05-08-2012, 05:42 PM
Obviously he's not better than Paul, but I have always thought he was somewhat underrated.

He's getting a lot of attention for the season he had this year, but he was actually just as good last year (significantly better as far as efficiency goes) and wasn't in the MVP discussion at all.

The_Jamal
05-08-2012, 05:46 PM
Nope as many have already said. He's still the most important piece on the #1 seed in the West.

Kashmir13579
05-08-2012, 05:49 PM
Agreed. I think a lot of it has to do with that were actually a legit contender this year. The last time we had a shot was in 08. Even last year even though we had the #1 seed we were flawed, and have addressed those flaws this year.

I like the Spurs out west mostly because i think Pop is the best coach in all of sports, but last year i really liked their chances and so did a lot of people because their offense was beastly. I don't think its that they haven't been favorites, i think its a lack of recognition and respect for arguably most competent and decorated franchise in recent NBA history. The Spurs do everything right. They're everything i want my team to be. They're never talked about by the media. :shrug:

Giraffes Rule
05-08-2012, 06:06 PM
No, but I do think he's the third best point guard in the league right now and the 2nd best if we only count this past season.

Raph12
05-08-2012, 06:34 PM
It's not close, CP3 is head-and-shoulders better than his competition at PG...

SanAntonioSpurs23
05-08-2012, 07:35 PM
The Spurs have always been Tim Duncan's team, but this year Parker has taken over. While his numbers aren't that much different from previous seasons, you can see how different TPs game is. He is the leader now and has evolved from just a scorer to an all around play maker. Not to mention his defense has been extremely good this season. Chris Paul is better IMO but Tony is top 3.

kdspurman
05-08-2012, 07:55 PM
Him stating that Parker has a better mid-range jump shot than Paul immediately disqualifies this discussion

But he is :shrug:

Catfish1314
05-08-2012, 08:08 PM
But he is :shrug:

Again, I'm a huge Parker fan. But the numbers strongly disagree.

DR_1
05-08-2012, 08:12 PM
Lol skip. Derrick Rose and Chris Paul are at a level no other point guard is at right now.

kdspurman
05-08-2012, 08:12 PM
Even as a Spurs fan, no way is TP the better overall player. CP3's vision is what puts him above TP to me.

Fwiw, TP and CP3 have always had damn good head to matchups pretty much every time they play against one each other.

I do think TP is a top 5 PG for sure though.

This. CP3's ability to get steals and court vision is what gives him the nod.

kdspurman
05-08-2012, 08:16 PM
Again, I'm a huge Parker fan. But the numbers strongly disagree.

Where do they strongly disagree?

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player-vs-player.html#Tony-Parker-vs-Chris-Paul|2225,101108;year=201112;season=r

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Chris%20Paul

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Tony%20Parker

D-Leethal
05-08-2012, 08:21 PM
Parker might be the most underrated player in the league but he's not better than Paul. I do think hes capable of outplaying Paul in a playoff series though, but not over the course of a season.

smith&wesson
05-08-2012, 08:27 PM
Bayless is a troll.

Parker has a case for a share of the MVP award, and even has a case for 1st team all NBA. But CP3 has been the best PG for 5 years.

this

but i do agree that parker has been beasting this season and can be in the top 5 pg cat for sure.

PhillyFaninLA
05-08-2012, 08:35 PM
I think CP3 is number 1, Rose number 2, then Parker (at least this year) and Deron in whatever order you want so he is in the conversation for sure.

Jumi
05-08-2012, 08:45 PM
I can't say TP is better, but I can't just say CP3 is that much better. Each one does what is needed for their team to be successful!

Anybody remember the series when TP and CP3 went head to head after NO had won the first two! That was classic!

They have different games and different teams that maximize their talents. The mid range is CP3 but the lane is owned by my boy!

kdspurman
05-08-2012, 08:45 PM
I'm curious to know the argument for Rose > Parker since I've seen it a couple times now. No baiting or any nonsense, just an honest inquiry.

ManningToTyree
05-08-2012, 09:33 PM
good player, probably a HoFer but not near best PG.

Catfish1314
05-08-2012, 11:18 PM
Where do they strongly disagree?

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player-vs-player.html#Tony-Parker-vs-Chris-Paul|2225,101108;year=201112;season=r

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Chris%20Paul

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Tony%20Parker

Right there. You agreed that Parker is a better midrange shooter than Paul. At the absolute worst, they're at about the same clip and that's really only this season. Paul shot 44% from 10-23 feet, Parker shot 42% from the same distance. Paul has taken more shots from 10-15 feet over the last few years and has a noticeably better percentage from there than does Parker.

They're both great point guards anyway.

*Silver&Black*
05-08-2012, 11:23 PM
I think CP3 is number 1, Rose number 2, then Parker (at least this year) and Deron in whatever order you want so he is in the conversation for sure.

this. Personally, I like Parker the best out of that group, but truth is Paul and Rose is clearly better.

mrblisterdundee
05-08-2012, 11:29 PM
Tony Parker's top-5 material, but he'll never legitimately be in the discussion for best point guard in the league. Even at his best, he can never match the abilities of guys like Chris Paul, Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook. Eventually, I think even Kyrie Irving will overtake him. I also think Brandon Jennings will soon match Parker's production.

1. Chris Paul
2. Derrick Rose (when healthy)
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Tony Parker
5. Deron Williams

(The only reason Parker's ahead of Williams is because Williams is on the Nets; who the hell else on that team do defenses have to focus on?)

mrblisterdundee
05-08-2012, 11:33 PM
Lol skip. Derrick Rose and Chris Paul are at a level no other point guard is at right now.

I think you have to include Russell Westbrook in that group. Kevin Durant will be the runner-up for the MVP award, but Westbrook has been just as important in both the regular season and the playoffs.

MagicBucsSox
05-09-2012, 12:15 AM
Rondo Paul dw rose Nash>parker

mrblisterdundee
05-09-2012, 01:39 AM
Rondo Paul dw rose Nash>parker

I totally forgot Rajon Rondo, who's also better than Tony Parker.

b@llhog24
05-09-2012, 02:44 AM
Rondo isn't better than Parker.

thekmp211
05-09-2012, 02:53 AM
rondo/parker is debatable, i have my biases but they have both been fantastic this year and are both in that tier after CP3/rose.

that said, no. bayless is a texas homer and genius pot stirrer. he knows that this will get people riled up even more for the likely clippers/spurs match up, riled up to see if parker can prove him right. if parker does it and the spurs win? bayless looks like a genius. if not? well, it's skip being skip. he's a master entertainer, for sure.

parker has taken a step this year though. he's always been one of the best guards at scoring in the paint, and his floater is just amazing. that said, his entire game doesn't hold a candle to CP3 or derrick rose. so no, he isn't seriously in that discussion. he is very clearly in the discussion for that next tier, which is more crowded now than ever.

parker also has by far the most help of any of the other players in the conversation and has for quite some time, with the exception of rondo at times. he can focus on the role required of him, unlike other guys on this list who literally carry rosters for seasons at a time.

msc43
05-09-2012, 02:57 AM
I've stopped listening to what Skip Bayless had to say a long time ago. But at any rate, I like Tony Parker's game a lot. He has improved significantly this season and has the Spurs in a great position to get to the Finals. However, he isn't better than Chris Paul yet. I think Parker had a better season than Chris Paul, but I'm not ready to say that Parker is the better PG.

Though Parker has better finishing at the rim, Paul has a better mid-range game, passing, and vision. Parker had a stunning season, but the league's best PG right now is CP3.

GiantsNinersW's
05-09-2012, 03:05 AM
I think he definitely deserves to be in the discussion. He's really, really good

Sadds The Gr8
05-09-2012, 03:30 AM
Bayless is a troll.

Parker has a case for a share of the MVP award, and even has a case for 1st team all NBA. But CP3 has been the best PG for 5 years.

Bayless is the ****in man

naps
05-09-2012, 03:36 AM
Nope, not as long as Chris Paul is playing. CP3 has been the best PG on the planet for a handful number of years, by far. After a gap it's a discussion among Nash, Parker, Rose, D-Will, and Rondo.

UnWantedTheory
05-09-2012, 03:38 AM
Look at their numbers this year with TP playing 4 less minutes a game while being just as efficient a scorer. I am not saying TP is better than CP3, but imo the gap is not as large as some claim.

Patman
05-09-2012, 03:39 AM
CP3 is the best PG in the league period. TP is really good and carried that spurs offense, he is the motor that makes them go. His big step this year is leadership and decision making he seems to make the right decision most of the time, where he looked a bit to much to score in earlier years.

b@llhog24
05-09-2012, 03:39 AM
rondo/parker is debatable, i have my biases but they have both been fantastic this year and are both in that tier after CP3/rose.

that said, no. bayless is a texas homer and genius pot stirrer. he knows that this will get people riled up even more for the likely clippers/spurs match up, riled up to see if parker can prove him right. if parker does it and the spurs win? bayless looks like a genius. if not? well, it's skip being skip. he's a master entertainer, for sure.

parker has taken a step this year though. he's always been one of the best guards at scoring in the paint, and his floater is just amazing. that said, his entire game doesn't hold a candle to CP3 or derrick rose. so no, he isn't seriously in that discussion. he is very clearly in the discussion for that next tier, which is more crowded now than ever.

parker also has by far the most help of any of the other players in the conversation and has for quite some time, with the exception of rondo at times. he can focus on the role required of him, unlike other guys on this list who literally carry rosters for seasons at a time.

It wouldn't be a very good debate.

b@llhog24
05-09-2012, 03:42 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rondora01&y1=2012&p2=parketo01&y2=2012&p3=paulch01&y3=2012&p4=irvinky01&y4=2012

Here's a comparision between Cp3 and Parker. (Rondo was included because some people actually believe he's better than Parker and Irving just because I'm in love with the guy).

BUCSFORLIFE123
05-09-2012, 03:51 AM
give parker a team where hes the number 1 option and hell easily avg 22+ & 8

i have cp3 and rose above parker. westbrook is so overrated and deron hasnt been up there

basketfan4life
05-09-2012, 06:51 AM
It's not close, CP3 is head-and-shoulders better than his competition at PG...

i think a healthy d-rose is as good if not better than cp3.

thekmp211
05-09-2012, 09:03 AM
It wouldn't be a very good debate.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rondora01&y1=2012&p2=parketo01&y2=2012&p3=paulch01&y3=2012&p4=irvinky01&y4=2012

Here's a comparision between Cp3 and Parker. (Rondo was included because some people actually believe he's better than Parker and Irving just because I'm in love with the guy).

rondo and parker fill very different roles on their team. if your argument is that parker has a better TS% than rondo i don't have much to say. despite different roles on the court they had similar impacts on their very balanced, experienced teams.

rondo led the league in assists and is a better defender than parker. parker is a better scorer and shooter from pretty much everywhere, especially this year. they were both arguably the best players on their teams. and neither really ever had the impact that cp3 and rose have from the position.

i like kyrie as much as anyone, and he may get there, but he's not in this discussion yet. great scorer though for sure.

Mr. Upset
05-09-2012, 09:25 AM
All he had to do was drop Eva Longoria. Now he can concentrate on running the rock because she stopped playing with his ****.

meloman1592
05-09-2012, 09:30 AM
Top 5 pg. Not on chris pauls level though

b@llhog24
05-09-2012, 03:15 PM
rondo and parker fill very different roles on their team. if your argument is that parker has a better TS% than rondo i don't have much to say. despite different roles on the court they had similar impacts on their very balanced, experienced teams.

rondo led the league in assists and is a better defender than parker. parker is a better scorer and shooter from pretty much everywhere, especially this year. they were both arguably the best players on their teams. and neither really ever had the impact that cp3 and rose have from the position.

i like kyrie as much as anyone, and he may get there, but he's not in this discussion yet. great scorer though for sure.

Actually my argument is that Parker is a vastly more impactfull offensive player. Higher (TS and eFG%) while destroying Rondo OWS and in Ortg despite having a significantly higher usage rate (which shows that he is responsible for more of his teams possessions than Rondo). He also turns the ball over way less than Rondo. Obviously Rondo is the better defender but unless your name is Gary Payton or J-Kidd then it's extremely rare that your PG being a good defender has that much impact on your teams overall defense. (which Parker also has over Rondo.) Kyrie is there to show that Rondo is more comparable to him more so than Parker.

willabeast77
05-09-2012, 03:42 PM
Parker is a top 5 PG currently but he is not in the MVP discussion (outside 5).

kdspurman
05-09-2012, 03:58 PM
Parker is a top 5 PG currently but he is not in the MVP discussion (outside 5).

What 5 guys do you have ahead of him? He's arguably 3rd for MVP

ManRam
05-09-2012, 04:00 PM
Well I say "no" because I think it's pretty damn clear that Paul is the cream of the crop.

He did make strides this season, for sure, and I think for a while he was flying under the radar too much.

He's in the debate for top 5, trailing Paul and probably Rose, but he's right there with Westbrook, Deron and Kyrie/Nash. I'd say this season he was the 3rd or 4th best. I tend to be more of a fan of Westbrook than some/most, so I'd have Russy at 3 and TP at 4...but flipping those two wouldn't bug me too much.

kdspurman
05-09-2012, 04:07 PM
Well I say "no" because I think it's pretty damn clear that Paul is the cream of the crop.

He did make strides this season, for sure, and I think for a while he was flying under the radar too much.

He's in the debate for top 5, trailing Paul and probably Rose, but he's right there with Westbrook, Deron and Kyrie/Nash. I'd say this season he was the 3rd or 4th best. I tend to be more of a fan of Westbrook than some/most, so I'd have Russy at 3 and TP at 4...but flipping those two wouldn't bug me too much.

I asked this earlier, but I'm really curious. What's the argument for Rose > Parker? (from a non baiting, genuinely curious point of view)

thekmp211
05-09-2012, 04:22 PM
Actually my argument is that Parker is a vastly more impactfull offensive player. Higher (TS and eFG%) while destroying Rondo OWS and in Ortg despite having a significantly higher usage rate (which shows that he is responsible for more of his teams possessions than Rondo). He also turns the ball over way less than Rondo. Obviously Rondo is the better defender but unless your name is Gary Payton or J-Kidd then it's extremely rare that your PG being a good defender has that much impact on your teams overall defense. (which Parker also has over Rondo.) Kyrie is there to show that Rondo is more comparable to him more so than Parker.

your argument is essentially the same. metrics don't encompass rondo's impact on the offense, plain and simple. he gets everyone the shot they like, every game. kidd is the comp, he just isn't as accomplished from 3 or the line yet. his overall impact in other facets is that big, take a look at what he's done in the playoffs.

parker has one of the deepest teams in the league, led by perhaps the very best coach in the game. again, he gets to score because the spurs have a system and a roster that doesn't require him to set the table all game every game. rondo has no such luxury. until pierce got going in the last 3rd of the season, rondo was the only guy who could consistently create on boston. they're just different players. but people always say that "stats don't reveal the whole game" and then promptly do nothing but site statistics to evaluate players. metrics are wonderful, they are a huge reason why the nba and the nba community are so appealing to me, but they are not the be all end all and rondo is an example of why imo.

kdspurman
05-09-2012, 04:38 PM
your argument is essentially the same. metrics don't encompass rondo's impact on the offense, plain and simple. he gets everyone the shot they like, every game. kidd is the comp, he just isn't as accomplished from 3 or the line yet. his overall impact in other facets is that big, take a look at what he's done in the playoffs.

parker has one of the deepest teams in the league, led by perhaps the very best coach in the game. again, he gets to score because the spurs have a system and a roster that doesn't require him to set the table all game every game. rondo has no such luxury. until pierce got going in the last 3rd of the season, rondo was the only guy who could consistently create on boston. they're just different players. but people always say that "stats don't reveal the whole game" and then promptly do nothing but site statistics to evaluate players. metrics are wonderful, they are a huge reason why the nba and the nba community are so appealing to me, but they are not the be all end all and rondo is an example of why imo.

The offense is run through Parker now! Parker's ability to drive and get in the lane is the main reason his assist numbers are up. And they could be higher judging by all the open corner 3's he gets for guys like Green, Leonard, Bonner etc... Not to mention like you said metrics don't say everything because so many times it's Parker's penetration and pass that leads to the wide open guy. Hockey assists aren't kept, but I'd be willing to bet he's pretty high in the rankings if they did.

He certainly does have to set the table every game. This team goes as Parker goes and it was pretty evident in that game 4 against Utah. He struggled, only had 11 points, and the team as a whole had 12 assists which is why they only scored 87 points.

The Spurs offense for anyone that's watched them enough this year knows they run hundreds of pick & rolls a game. That usually involves Parker, Manu, or Neal at times. When Parker is in the game, it's on him. Every now and then they call plays for Tim in the post, but it's strictly on TP to score, or get other guys involved and read what how the defense reacts. Because Parker's gotten so good at the mid range shot, defenses can no longer go under the screen cause he'll knock that shot down all day.

I think Rondo is the better play maker, and defender, but Parker carries as big a load in terms of getting his teammates involved. SA just happens to be deeper than Boston.

What you see on this site is Spurs offense all day. That's what they do, there's nothing complicated about it. Parker is always running the show when he's in.


http://onebasketball.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/masters-of-offensive-spacing-the-san-antonio-spurs-spread-pick-and-roll/

Joshtd1
05-09-2012, 04:52 PM
Funny looking at the synergy numbers how Rondo really isn't that good at all. Ranked 383 with only a .76 PPP (point per possession). Even what we would figure his strength is low, with pick and roll as the ball handler at .68

Defensively he is better then Parker, but TP is better offensively. Though I don't think TP (number wise anyway) is as worse then Rondo, compared to Rondo being worse on offense then TP.

thekmp211
05-09-2012, 05:02 PM
duncan, manu, jackson, diaw, heck even mills can work to get their own shots.

i get that i'm in the minority here. but you gotta watch the guy play -- he isn't trying to score against most teams in the regular season. he was always passing, as evidenced by the streak and leading the league in assists. this comes back to bite him at times, even last night when he's generally been brilliant in the playoffs he made a couple terrible passes when he could have had an easy layup. but for most of the year, his pass first pass second philosophy got wins and his shooting was an afterthought. when he turns it on, his overall game is right there with the best.

but a couple things about parker. first, again parker has been setting up the offense at an increased rate this year, the best he ever has really, but he still doesn't have to do it as often as rondo, or even paul or the scorer types like westbrook and rose. not a knock on his game, but again he is in a superb system with tons of depth and experience on the court and the bench.

i think it's awesome that pop has essentially assimilated the best parts of the SSOL offense into the spurs system. everything i'm saying is in your article. i just think that you are doing rondo an injustice by leaning on advanced stats to evaluate his regular season play.

bagwell368
05-09-2012, 05:44 PM
your argument is essentially the same. metrics don't encompass rondo's impact on the offense, plain and simple. he gets everyone the shot they like, every game. kidd is the comp, he just isn't as accomplished from 3 or the line yet.


Sorry but by this stage in Kidd's career he was already shooting well outside including the 3 (5th year in particular).


his overall impact in other facets is that big, take a look at what he's done in the playoffs.

Did you catch his brain cramp last night at the end of the game? Also 0 for 0 at the line. He can't handle going into the hoop like Kidd can because he's too frail/injury prone.

ManRam
05-09-2012, 06:02 PM
I asked this earlier, but I'm really curious. What's the argument for Rose > Parker? (from a non baiting, genuinely curious point of view)

I don't see how it would be baiting :laugh2: I couldn't care less about Rose, nor am I a Parker fan. It's a legit question...far from baiting :nod:

It's definitely close...especially since the Spurs are now more reliable on Parker than they ever have been. Still, they aren't as reliant on him on offense nearly as much as the Bulls were with Rose. They're really similar. Basically absolute equals in the passing game. Defensively there isn't much of a gap. Parker is a bit more of an efficient scorer, mainly because he has the luxury of having a more selective shot selection. That efficiency is big. PERs are very similar (slight edge to Rose) and WS/48 favor Rose as well. But it's really close. All depends on what you need. I would, and I get how this could be controversial or debatable, without a doubt prefer having Rose as my #1 option over Parker. But, sometimes that's not what you want out of a PG...so it might not matter.


Both Chicago and San Antonio are far better off with who they have. They're good fits. A matter of preference IMO. I really don't prefer Rose all that much more than Parker, maybe just a hair.

knicksfan42
05-09-2012, 06:12 PM
Bayless is a troll.




Indeed he has enough people bite his bait to be considered a pretty successful troll.

b@llhog24
05-09-2012, 06:18 PM
your argument is essentially the same. metrics don't encompass rondo's impact on the offense, plain and simple. he gets everyone the shot they like, every game. kidd is the comp, he just isn't as accomplished from 3 or the line yet. his overall impact in other facets is that big, take a look at what he's done in the playoffs.

parker has one of the deepest teams in the league, led by perhaps the very best coach in the game. again, he gets to score because the spurs have a system and a roster that doesn't require him to set the table all game every game. rondo has no such luxury. until pierce got going in the last 3rd of the season, rondo was the only guy who could consistently create on boston. they're just different players. but people always say that "stats don't reveal the whole game" and then promptly do nothing but site statistics to evaluate players. metrics are wonderful, they are a huge reason why the nba and the nba community are so appealing to me, but they are not the be all end all and rondo is an example of why imo.

Lol that's exactly what they do. I also find it funny that you're trying to insinuate that Parker benifits more from his the Spurs system than Rondo (who is the eptitome of a system player).


The offense is run through Parker now! Parker's ability to drive and get in the lane is the main reason his assist numbers are up. And they could be higher judging by all the open corner 3's he gets for guys like Green, Leonard, Bonner etc... Not to mention like you said metrics don't say everything because so many times it's Parker's penetration and pass that leads to the wide open guy. Hockey assists aren't kept, but I'd be willing to bet he's pretty high in the rankings if they did.

He certainly does have to set the table every game. This team goes as Parker goes and it was pretty evident in that game 4 against Utah. He struggled, only had 11 points, and the team as a whole had 12 assists which is why they only scored 87 points.

The Spurs offense for anyone that's watched them enough this year knows they run hundreds of pick & rolls a game. That usually involves Parker, Manu, or Neal at times. When Parker is in the game, it's on him. Every now and then they call plays for Tim in the post, but it's strictly on TP to score, or get other guys involved and read what how the defense reacts. Because Parker's gotten so good at the mid range shot, defenses can no longer go under the screen cause he'll knock that shot down all day.

I think Rondo is the better play maker, and defender, but Parker carries as big a load in terms of getting his teammates involved. SA just happens to be deeper than Boston.

What you see on this site is Spurs offense all day. That's what they do, there's nothing complicated about it. Parker is always running the show when he's in.


http://onebasketball.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/masters-of-offensive-spacing-the-san-antonio-spurs-spread-pick-and-roll/
+1


Funny looking at the synergy numbers how Rondo really isn't that good at all. Ranked 383 with only a .76 PPP (point per possession). Even what we would figure his strength is low, with pick and roll as the ball handler at .68

Defensively he is better then Parker, but TP is better offensively. Though I don't think TP (number wise anyway) is as worse then Rondo, compared to Rondo being worse on offense then TP.

Simply put this is were Rondo loses out.


duncan, manu, jackson, diaw, heck even mills can work to get their own shots.

i get that i'm in the minority here. but you gotta watch the guy play -- he isn't trying to score against most teams in the regular season. he was always passing, as evidenced by the streak and leading the league in assists. this comes back to bite him at times, even last night when he's generally been brilliant in the playoffs he made a couple terrible passes when he could have had an easy layup. but for most of the year, his pass first pass second philosophy got wins and his shooting was an afterthought. when he turns it on, his overall game is right there with the best.

but a couple things about parker. first, again parker has been setting up the offense at an increased rate this year, the best he ever has really, but he still doesn't have to do it as often as rondo, or even paul or the scorer types like westbrook and rose. not a knock on his game, but again he is in a superb system with tons of depth and experience on the court and the bench.

i think it's awesome that pop has essentially assimilated the best parts of the SSOL offense into the spurs system. everything i'm saying is in your article. i just think that you are doing rondo an injustice by leaning on advanced stats to evaluate his regular season play.

Rondo passes as much as he does because he sucks at scoring, he'd be even more inefficient trying to score than he is now. I'll admit I'm still relatively new to the advanced stat train but even someone such as myself with basic comprehension of them can see that Parker is noticably better than Rondo. Also you're using the playoffs as if Parker hasn't been as good as or maybe even better than Rondo in them.

kdspurman
05-09-2012, 07:00 PM
I don't see how it would be baiting :laugh2: I couldn't care less about Rose, nor am I a Parker fan. It's a legit question...far from baiting :nod:

It's definitely close...especially since the Spurs are now more reliable on Parker than they ever have been. Still, they aren't as reliant on him on offense nearly as much as the Bulls were with Rose. They're really similar. Basically absolute equals in the passing game. Defensively there isn't much of a gap. Parker is a bit more of an efficient scorer, mainly because he has the luxury of having a more selective shot selection. That efficiency is big. PERs are very similar (slight edge to Rose) and WS/48 favor Rose as well. But it's really close. All depends on what you need. I would, and I get how this could be controversial or debatable, without a doubt prefer having Rose as my #1 option over Parker. But, sometimes that's not what you want out of a PG...so it might not matter.


Both Chicago and San Antonio are far better off with who they have. They're good fits. A matter of preference IMO. I really don't prefer Rose all that much more than Parker, maybe just a hair.

Good stuff... And I know you're not going to get offended but that was more for other guys who get really sensitive :laugh2:

SpaceJamJordans
05-09-2012, 07:05 PM
I'd say he's made himself into the top 3.

If the Clippers close their series out, we'll see a great match-up in Chris Paul vs. Tony Parker. :D Tony Parker can tighten the gap with a good performance and series win.

Clips will win don't worry. Then it's gonna be Lakers vs Clippers. Everybody is going to be chanting "BEAT LA" and then I can die peacefully

thekmp211
05-09-2012, 07:17 PM
Sorry but by this stage in Kidd's career he was already shooting well outside including the 3 (5th year in particular).

sort of. definitely better than rondo, but i think that ft shooting is probably a bigger deal as well as something rondo can realistically improve on in the future. but yes, kidd was at least someone you had to guard during the course of the game from three.




Did you catch his brain cramp last night at the end of the game? Also 0 for 0 at the line. He can't handle going into the hoop like Kidd can because he's too frail/injury prone.

last night we saw the whole spectrum for this boston team. rondo was spectacular at times, but yes his shortcomings showed up and it ended up costing us. he did almost win the game though with a fantastic steal, horford got a hand on the ball and made a pretty good play. it happens. ft% and 3 pt are rondos weaknesses for sure, he is capable of overcoming but last night showed his limitations.



Lol that's exactly what they do. I also find it funny that you're trying to insinuate that Parker benifits more from his the Spurs system than Rondo (who is the eptitome of a system player).


+1



Simply put this is were Rondo loses out.


first off i don't say this as a knock on parker. the spurs are just the best run, deepest, most experienced and best coached team in the league and that helps him do what he does best.

re: rondo and the system, that's the thing, he IS the system. the system is screen action on and off the ball, which is always, always always always in his hands. the celtics are largely a jump shooting team, and an old unathletic one at that due to roster makeup. yet despite that, and his shooting limitations, he managed to lead the league in assists and get good production out of guys like bass, bradley, and KG (who also caught fire post all star game) and at least keep our offense competitive.


Rondo passes as much as he does because he sucks at scoring, he'd be even more inefficient trying to score than he is now. I'll admit I'm still relatively new to the advanced stat train but even someone such as myself with basic comprehension of them can see that Parker is noticably better than Rondo. Also you're using the playoffs as if Parker hasn't been as good as or maybe even better than Rondo in them.

whole heartedly disagree with that. in fact, in big games against great teams, and in the playoffs, he proves to be an effective if flawed scorer, in addition to spectacular defender, rebounder, passer ect. yes parker has been great, as have paul and rondo so far. in games that matter (and we can debate if a player who judges competition like that is doing it right). again they've both been excellent, i just think rondo has had to do a bit more this year even with parkers expanded role. both nasty, both not as good as cp3.

Corey
05-09-2012, 07:23 PM
Rondo isn't better than Parker, you people are insane.

Using my same argument from the comparison thread:

Rondo is the superior rebounder and defender. They're comparable in terms of playmaking ability imo.

Tony Parker is better at just about everything else.

I started this debate on my facebook with a few people earlier, and posted:

Offensively, Rondo accounts for .76 points per possession. Tony Parker accounts for .94 points per possession.

Tony Parker has a 12.8 Turnover%...Rondo has a 22% Turnover%.

Tony Parker shoots better percentages overall, in isolation situations, in pick and rolls, on spot up jumpers. Rondo only shoots better percentages in post up situations, which honestly means nothing for a point guard.

Oh, and Tony Parker shoots ~80% from FT, while Rondo shoots ~59%, which plays a big role throughout the course of the season.

Also, while Rondo is the better defender...The Celtics allow less points per 100 possessions when Rondo is off the floor. When he's on the floor, the Celtics allow 101.5 points per 100 possessions, when he's off the court, they allow 98.5 points per 100 possessions.

On the flip side, when Parker is on the court for the Spurs, the allow 101.6 points per 100 possessions, but the difference comes when he's off the court. The Spurs allow 110.5 points per 100 possessions, which shows that he's a lot more important to team defense than Rondo is.

Thats without even bringing up individual jump shot percentages.

This year, Rondo shot 27.8% from 10-15 feet and 39% from 16-23 feet.

thekmp211
05-09-2012, 07:58 PM
Rondo isn't better than Parker, you people are insane.

Using my same argument from the comparison thread:

Rondo is the superior rebounder and defender. They're comparable in terms of playmaking ability imo.

really hard to say that after this year and the streak rondo put together. i think you're short changing the guy.


Tony Parker is better at just about everything else.

so...shooting. we reach this tipping point once again.


I started this debate on my facebook with a few people earlier, and posted:

[QUOTE] Offensively, Rondo accounts for .76 points per possession. Tony Parker accounts for .94 points per possession.

tony is the better shooter and scorer, there is no doubt.


Tony Parker has a 12.8 Turnover%...Rondo has a 22% Turnover%.

And assist %? rondo smokes parker, and obviously a guy passing and controlling the ball as much as rondo will turn it over more. his assist/turnover ratio was better than steve nash's this year -- does that make nash a bad creator? these are simple observations.


Tony Parker shoots better percentages overall, in isolation situations, in pick and rolls, on spot up jumpers. Rondo only shoots better percentages in post up situations, which honestly means nothing for a point guard.

Oh, and Tony Parker shoots ~80% from FT, while Rondo shoots ~59%, which plays a big role throughout the course of the season.


the free throw shooting is the major red flag for me. it's the thing rondo could easily improve. but a totally fair critique.


Also, while Rondo is the better defender...The Celtics allow less points per 100 possessions when Rondo is off the floor. When he's on the floor, the Celtics allow 101.5 points per 100 possessions, when he's off the court, they allow 98.5 points per 100 possessions.

this could have to do with any number of things that have nothing to do with his play. most likely the fact that our second unit defense has been very strong this season, shutting down weak benches.


On the flip side, when Parker is on the court for the Spurs, the allow 101.6 points per 100 possessions, but the difference comes when he's off the court. The Spurs allow 110.5 points per 100 possessions, which shows that he's a lot more important to team defense than Rondo is.

that is not only a bogus conclusion it is case study #1 or #2 from this post why metrics are not the be all end all. there is nothing in that stat that definitively points to either player being more or less effective a defender. if anything, you'd be best served pulling up the best defensive lineups by statistic, don't know what that looks like but it's a flawed stat as well.


Thats without even bringing up individual jump shot percentages.

This year, Rondo shot 27.8% from 10-15 feet and 39% from 16-23 feet.

right he sucks at shooting. once he shores up his game from the line it should be something he can overcome.

bagwell368
05-09-2012, 08:26 PM
sort of. definitely better than rondo, but i think that ft shooting is probably a bigger deal as well as something rondo can realistically improve on in the future. but yes, kidd was at least someone you had to guard during the course of the game from three.

But Rondo's FT% has been lower this year and last then his prior 4 years. That isn't a good trend.

Rondo has massive hands (I'm much bigger than Rondo, but his hands are way bigger then mine). That probably causes him problems not easy to solve. The word is in the past that Rondo hasn't practiced FT's enough to satisfy his Coach.


he did almost win the game though with a fantastic steal

Yes, but why can't he race past his pal Smith? Instead he ate the clock.


re: rondo and the system, that's the thing, he IS the system. the system is screen action on and off the ball, which is always, always always always in his hands. the celtics are largely a jump shooting team, and an old unathletic one at that due to roster makeup. yet despite that, and his shooting limitations, he managed to lead the league in assists and get good production out of guys like bass, bradley, and KG (who also caught fire post all star game) and at least keep our offense competitive.

He's still play playing with 3 future HOF'ers, in a league with a short schedule that didn't expose how old they are (that often), the league is also short on strong teams. The team that wins the title this year might be the weakest in about 7 years.


whole heartedly disagree with that. in fact, in big games against great teams, and in the playoffs, he proves to be an effective if flawed scorer, in addition to spectacular defender, rebounder, passer ect.

But since his famed triple doubles almost always come against teams on National TV, what happens when the game is less important? Does a great player and future leader of the team play according to mood and not the schedule?

Parker is sort of a tweener that plays PG IMO. His shooting efficiency is his huge advantage over Rondo. Rondo has defense and rebounding over Parker. As basketball players, Parker is simply better then Rondo this year. Don't forget Rondo has missed 20% of his teams games this year (14) compared to (6) for Parker, sorry but that has to be counted. Also consider that all of Rondo's misses (FG and FT) more then Parker that are not rebounded by his team are effectively turnovers. Rondo certainly has a good measure more then Parker does.

TornadoOfSouls
05-09-2012, 10:32 PM
I also think Brandon Jennings will soon match Parker's production.

You do realize Parker, throughout his career, has been one of the most efficient players in the league. And you think a chucker like Jennings will match his production? A normal season for Parker has him at a 50% field goal percentage. Jennings barely made it to 40% this season for the first time.

b@llhog24
05-09-2012, 10:53 PM
sort of. definitely better than rondo, but i think that ft shooting is probably a bigger deal as well as something rondo can realistically improve on in the future. but yes, kidd was at least someone you had to guard during the course of the game from three.





last night we saw the whole spectrum for this boston team. rondo was spectacular at times, but yes his shortcomings showed up and it ended up costing us. he did almost win the game though with a fantastic steal, horford got a hand on the ball and made a pretty good play. it happens. ft% and 3 pt are rondos weaknesses for sure, he is capable of overcoming but last night showed his limitations.




first off i don't say this as a knock on parker. the spurs are just the best run, deepest, most experienced and best coached team in the league and that helps him do what he does best.

re: rondo and the system, that's the thing, he IS the system. the system is screen action on and off the ball, which is always, always always always in his hands. the celtics are largely a jump shooting team, and an old unathletic one at that due to roster makeup. yet despite that, and his shooting limitations, he managed to lead the league in assists and get good production out of guys like bass, bradley, and KG (who also caught fire post all star game) and at least keep our offense competitive.



whole heartedly disagree with that. in fact, in big games against great teams, and in the playoffs, he proves to be an effective if flawed scorer, in addition to spectacular defender, rebounder, passer ect. yes parker has been great, as have paul and rondo so far. in games that matter (and we can debate if a player who judges competition like that is doing it right). again they've both been excellent, i just think rondo has had to do a bit more this year even with parkers expanded role. both nasty, both not as good as cp3.

While it isn't the best thing to make hypotheticals based on progression there is plenty of historical evidence that in the future he'll never be a good foul shooter. Factoring his age amongst other things its probably a safe bet Rondo will never improve (which I doubt he will in any event) beyond a 70% foul shooter. (He'll never get that high but for arguments sakes). You say that Rondo is the system, yet when he went down it been shown that guys like PP just end up picking up the slack so really how important is he? Your playoff argument can also be seen as a detractor from your case, why doesn't he perform at this level consistently?

kdspurman
05-10-2012, 09:12 AM
Clips will win don't worry. Then it's gonna be Lakers vs Clippers. Everybody is going to be chanting "BEAT LA" and then I can die peacefully

:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo

RealLiveBear
05-10-2012, 09:33 AM
Not best point guard but top 5 for sure and maybe even top 3, I would like to see what he'd play like on a team like NO when chris paul carried that team and see how he reacted to that kind of situation.

thekmp211
05-10-2012, 11:03 AM
While it isn't the best thing to make hypotheticals based on progression there is plenty of historical evidence that in the future he'll never be a good foul shooter. Factoring his age amongst other things its probably a safe bet Rondo will never improve (which I doubt he will in any event) beyond a 70% foul shooter. (He'll never get that high but for arguments sakes). You say that Rondo is the system, yet when he went down it been shown that guys like PP just end up picking up the slack so really how important is he? Your playoff argument can also be seen as a detractor from your case, why doesn't he perform at this level consistently?

we'll see about the FT's. to me anyone in the league should be able to shoot 80% with enough practice. yao ming did it. anatomy is no longer an excuse. if he works at it it could happen, but it's a big if.

the idea that boston plays well without rondo for long stretches is a falsehood. yes boston grinded out game 2 against the hawks without him...but barely. you can thank keyon dooling for hitting a couple timely 3's and paul pierce for being a first ballot hall of fame player and competitor.

the celtics hit their stride this season, as a team winning basketball games against opponents of all shapes and sizes, with rondo averaging 12-13 assists per game and saving his offense for the big fish.

i don't wanna do rondo here anymore, i'll start Rondo part two. parker is dirty and i don't want to hijack this thread and make it look like i think he sucks compared to rondo, or any one else. just don't think he is quite the total package of cp3.

KingPosey
05-10-2012, 11:15 AM
A BETTER mid range game than CP3? Thats kinda CP3's thing isnt it?

KingPosey
05-10-2012, 11:18 AM
BUT I think TP has been overlooked for years, he is a great PG.

DR_1
05-10-2012, 04:02 PM
I think the PG rankings are

1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul

*Bit of a gap b/w these two and the rest IMO.

3. Steve Nash
4. Tony Parker
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Deron Williams

7. Rajon Rondo

3-6 are pretty interchangeable IMO, but Parker and Nash have both impressed me so much by how they have put their teams on their backs this season. Honestly though we need to see the rest of the Playoffs before we rush to judge any of these guys IMO. If Parker wins the ship, he gets bumped up with Rose and Paul for example.

kdspurman
05-10-2012, 04:23 PM
I think the PG rankings are

1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul

*Bit of a gap b/w these two and the rest IMO.

3. Steve Nash
4. Tony Parker
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Deron Williams

7. Rajon Rondo

3-6 are pretty interchangeable IMO, but Parker and Nash have both impressed me so much by how they have put their teams on their backs this season. Honestly though we need to see the rest of the Playoffs before we rush to judge any of these guys IMO. If Parker wins the ship, he gets bumped up with Rose and Paul for example.

So Rose who's been injured all year is #1 but Parker who's dominated is #4 and can move into the "elite" group if he win's a championship? Cause he's got 3 btw and a finals MVP. Are you going off this year or what?

justinnum1
05-10-2012, 04:28 PM
I think the PG rankings are

1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul

*Bit of a gap b/w these two and the rest IMO.

3. Steve Nash
4. Tony Parker
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Deron Williams

7. Rajon Rondo

3-6 are pretty interchangeable IMO, but Parker and Nash have both impressed me so much by how they have put their teams on their backs this season. Honestly though we need to see the rest of the Playoffs before we rush to judge any of these guys IMO. If Parker wins the ship, he gets bumped up with Rose and Paul for example.

Rose over CP3? no.:no:

Corey
05-10-2012, 05:41 PM
CP3 is the best point guard in the league. He's on his own platform.

The notch below him is Rose.

Notch below him is Nash, Parker, Deron, Westbrook

Notch below them is Rondo

Notch below him is Lawson, Lowry, Kyrie, etc

thekmp211
05-10-2012, 05:49 PM
CP3 is the best point guard in the league. He's on his own platform.

The notch below him is Rose.

Notch below him is Nash, Parker, Deron, Westbrook

Notch below them is Rondo

Notch below him is Lawson, Lowry, Kyrie, etc

this is pretty solid. i'd drop deron for rondo from that second tier, this season. but i think the takeaway is that we have a couple of guys who reign supreme over a really talented crop of PG's.

Corey
05-10-2012, 05:53 PM
I think Deron is much better than Rondo, to be honest.

If you put Rondo on the Nets this year instead of Deron, that would have been even more of a **** show than it was.

DR_1
05-10-2012, 06:24 PM
So Rose who's been injured all year is #1 but Parker who's dominated is #4 and can move into the "elite" group if he win's a championship? Cause he's got 3 btw and a finals MVP. Are you going off this year or what?

I was going off pf overall skills, I discounted health :shrug:

IversonIsKrazy
05-10-2012, 07:49 PM
The most underrated PG of all-time. Bayless is crap, he says idiotic things because he knows he gets views and attention when he does, so he feeds off the idiotic mind which make up for majority of views. TP tho imo is #4 on PG list.
1) CP3
2) Rose [injured this year]
3) DWill
4) Parker
5) Rondo
6) Nash
7) Westbrook

thekmp211
05-10-2012, 07:55 PM
I think Deron is much better than Rondo, to be honest.

If you put Rondo on the Nets this year instead of Deron, that would have been even more of a **** show than it was.

dunno bout that. dunno that any one player could have made that team much better or worse outside of lebron or dwight. it's not like deron shot the ball well, at all, this year or last. or really since 2010 for that matter. and i think rondo is now a better distributor than him by a fair margin. rondo and anthony morrow would be a nice battery for one.

edit: although i don't think rondos personality would jive with being on a team that crappy if that's what you meant.

kdspurman
05-10-2012, 08:14 PM
I was going off pf overall skills, I discounted health :shrug:

So why does TP need to win a ring to be considered in elite group with Rose & CP3 is my question

KingPosey
05-11-2012, 07:29 PM
So why does TP need to win ANOTHER ring to be considered in elite group with Rose & CP3 is my question

fixed.

His argument makes ZERO sense lol.

phoenix_bladen
06-07-2012, 06:07 PM
overrated

kdspurman
06-07-2012, 06:15 PM
overrated

Says the guy with the Jeremy Lin sig :rolleyes:

greg_ory_2005
06-07-2012, 06:15 PM
Not the best, but definitely a second tier PG.

Bishnoff
06-07-2012, 06:34 PM
The what have you done for me lately syndrome. Skip Bayless is a tool and no he doesn't have a point. Parker should be in the MVP discussion but not the best PG in the NBA. As of right now CP3 and Derrick Rose own that discussion IMO. And no Parker isn't nearly as good a passer nor does he have a better mid range J than CP3.

Paul is the best PG in the game followed by Rose and then Parker begins to get into the discussion along with Westbrook, Nash and Williams.

This, especially the bolded.

Blitzbolt
06-07-2012, 06:36 PM
Mike Conley>Tony Parker.

chicago lulz
06-07-2012, 06:39 PM
Mike Conley>Tony Parker.

LOL, This guy!

AIMelo=KillaDUO
06-07-2012, 06:42 PM
Paul played more minutes, more games, scored more points, had more rebounds, had more assists, had less turnovers, had more steals, was better defensively, was a much more effecient scorer, can shoot from the perimeter, got to the foul line more, and was better in clutch situations.

What am I missing?

He doesn't have a ring. Therefore he sucks.

poleandreel
06-07-2012, 06:51 PM
Says the guy with the Jeremy Lin sig :rolleyes:

Nice sig. Stay classy bro. Your team got beat 4 straight times, 1 at home. The refs didn't tell tony parker to go home in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

Hawkeye15
06-07-2012, 08:21 PM
Really poor timing to bring this thread back up, but again, yes he should. He is a top 3-4 PG to me. Paul, Rose, and then maybe Parker.

kdspurman
06-07-2012, 09:51 PM
Nice sig. Stay classy bro. Your team got beat 4 straight times, 1 at home. The refs didn't tell tony parker to go home in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

Be in denial all you want. The details have already been pointed out in another thread. Holding OKC to no FG's for a 5 min stretch yet they managed like 14 points. Off of bogus calls that swung the momentum and took SA out of the game, they made shots and plays to win the game, but quickly got shot down by whistles.

I get it, you don't see it. But 15 years from now, when OKC is playing a new up and coming team and they're on their last legs, and their ratings are low when they play, and they get calls against them like SA did last night, you'll know how Spurs fans feel.

Till then, congrats & enjoy the victory and your trip to the finals.

Blitzbolt
06-08-2012, 12:31 PM
Spurs=crying baby's

Last year injury excuse
This year refs.

Take the lost like a man.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 12:33 PM
I think I have moved Rondo up ahead of him based on these playoffs. But he was top4 for the RS.

kdspurman
06-08-2012, 12:41 PM
Spurs=crying baby's

Last injury excuse
This year refs.

Take the lost like a man.

:confused:

NBA fans (not only Spurs fans) are just stating the obvious of what transpired in Game 6.

Lakeshow24KB
06-08-2012, 12:53 PM
He doesn't have a ring. Therefore he sucks.

Thats only valid when we're talking about LeBron. ;)