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View Full Version : Can we stop the Lind bashing please



BlueJayFanDan
05-08-2012, 02:37 PM
I am really tired of coming into this forum every day, and seeing a thread about anything at all being derailed by how awful you all think Lind is. I know Lind is struggling, but he is the only person you guys ever bash. You make excuses for Jose, Rasmus, Arencibia, Lawrie, but always bash Lind. It's really obnoxious and seriously takes away from my enjoyment of the forum when I see my favorite player constantly being bashed. Ok, I get it, his power numbers suck so far and his batting average is terrible. It happens. Look at a guy like Pujols, a guy who a lot of you were suggesting in the offseason we throw 250 million at to bring to Toronto. Right now, Lind has a better average, more home runs, more walks, and a higher OBP at 1/30th (or whatever it is) of the cost. Players struggle. It happens. Take away walks, and Bautista's numbers are hideous too. His numbers will improve though, and so will Lind's. Our whole lineup is just not producing like they are capable of right now (minus a couple guys). If Lind was dead last on the team in every statistic and was striking out every plate appearance, I would understand the bashing, but hes not even last in any statistic. He is 3rd in walks, middle of the road on strikeouts, tied for 2nd in extra base hits, 2nd most doubles, has a better average than Bautista. I'm not saying the numbers are great, but its completely unfair the way you guys go around bashing him and I am really sick of it, and I will not be coming around to this forum anymore if this bashing continues (not that anyone cares).

Rant finished, go ahead and bash me.

Converged
05-08-2012, 02:45 PM
I think the coaching staff only compounds the hatred for Lind. If the guy wasn't hitting cleanup, I doubt you would see the same anger from fans.

Abdul Mutalib
05-08-2012, 02:54 PM
lmao i stopped reading after u said hes ur fav player

craigerlee
05-08-2012, 02:59 PM
I am really tired of coming into this forum every day, and seeing a thread about anything at all being derailed by how awful you all think Lind is. I know Lind is struggling, but he is the only person you guys ever bash. You make excuses for Jose, Rasmus, Arencibia, Lawrie, but always bash Lind. It's really obnoxious and seriously takes away from my enjoyment of the forum when I see my favorite player constantly being bashed. Ok, I get it, his power numbers suck so far and his batting average is terrible. It happens. Look at a guy like Pujols, a guy who a lot of you were suggesting in the offseason we throw 250 million at to bring to Toronto. Right now, Lind has a better average, more home runs, more walks, and a higher OBP at 1/30th (or whatever it is) of the cost. Players struggle. It happens. Take away walks, and Bautista's numbers are hideous too. His numbers will improve though, and so will Lind's. Our whole lineup is just not producing like they are capable of right now (minus a couple guys). If Lind was dead last on the team in every statistic and was striking out every plate appearance, I would understand the bashing, but hes not even last in any statistic. He is 3rd in walks, middle of the road on strikeouts, tied for 2nd in extra base hits, 2nd most doubles, has a better average than Bautista. I'm not saying the numbers are great, but its completely unfair the way you guys go around bashing him and I am really sick of it, and I will not be coming around to this forum anymore if this bashing continues (not that anyone cares).

Rant finished, go ahead and bash me.

Pretty sure Pujols was pretty darn good in 2011 and pretty darn good in 2010, and Adam Lind wasn't. No one's bashing Lind cause he's been struggling the first month of the season, were bashing him cause he's struggled the last two years plus, which I feel is completely justifiable. He plays the most important position offensively and he's taking away major league at bats from a player like Snider who has a lot more talent and upside.

Krylian
05-08-2012, 02:59 PM
lmao i stopped reading after u said hes ur fav player

This.

Your favourite player blows.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-08-2012, 03:02 PM
lmao you guys are to much

BlueJayFanDan
05-08-2012, 03:10 PM
Pretty sure Pujols was pretty darn good in 2011 and pretty darn good in 2010, and Adam Lind wasn't. No one's bashing Lind cause he's been struggling the first month of the season, were bashing him cause he's struggled the last two years plus, which I feel is completely justifiable. He plays the most important position offensively and he's taking away major league at bats from a player like Snider who has a lot more talent and upside.

The same Travis Snider who couldn't even get a roster spot over a mediocre Eric Thames? Yeah, his upside is nice, but he must have a lot wrong to be able to play parts of 4 seasons in the majors then get demoted for a mediocre at best player...

the_jon
05-08-2012, 03:12 PM
It's going to keep happening at least until he gets dropped in the batting order so get used to it.

Lavy16
05-08-2012, 03:12 PM
lmao i stopped reading after u said hes ur fav player

I wish I got paid as much as Lind does and could suck as bad at my job as he does and still have a place to work.

Sadds The Gr8
05-08-2012, 03:17 PM
lmao i stopped reading after u said hes ur fav player


This.

Your favourite player blows.

lol

the_jon
05-08-2012, 03:18 PM
Plus Lind hasn't exactly been staying in great shape. He gets fatter every year. I remember when his excuse a couple years ago was he worked out too much in the offseason and it messed with his ability to get around on balls, but he's even bigger now then he was then. Probably more to do with age, but he's not an old man either so it's definitely a fixable issue.

I'm sure he does give a ****, but he hasn't shown me anything to believe that.

1hardcore
05-08-2012, 03:44 PM
ur favorite player needs to be traded

Toxeryll
05-08-2012, 03:45 PM
lind is a POS

craigerlee
05-08-2012, 03:50 PM
The same Travis Snider who couldn't even get a roster spot over a mediocre Eric Thames? Yeah, his upside is nice, but he must have a lot wrong to be able to play parts of 4 seasons in the majors then get demoted for a mediocre at best player...

I don't know why it matters he lost his job to Thames, cause then your assuming it was the right decision, and that the right decision is to keep Lind in the 4 hole. I think all which not just me, but a lot of other people who know baseball a lot better than me would say is probably not the right decision.

What looks more promising? A 24 year old who's played in parts of 4 seasons, never getting a stint longer than 49 games and has OPS'd .730 and played average to above average defense in LF, or a 28 year old average to below average defensive 1B who's OPS'd .775 his entire career and OPS'd .712 in the his last 301 games. .712 OPS out of your first basemen in the last 301 games I think is reason enough for people to be upset about his performance. How can you make up excuses for that? Least with Pujols its only 26 games he's been bad. There's gonna come a time when Rasmus has no rope left either but seeing as he plays excellent defense in CF and had a really good offensive season in 2010 he obviously gets a longer rope than Lind.

2009mvp
05-08-2012, 03:52 PM
I am really tired of coming into this forum every day, and seeing a thread about anything at all being derailed by how awful you all think Lind is. I know Lind is struggling, but he is the only person you guys ever bash. You make excuses for Jose, Rasmus, Arencibia, Lawrie, but always bash Lind. It's really obnoxious and seriously takes away from my enjoyment of the forum when I see my favorite player constantly being bashed. Ok, I get it, his power numbers suck so far and his batting average is terrible. It happens. Look at a guy like Pujols, a guy who a lot of you were suggesting in the offseason we throw 250 million at to bring to Toronto. Right now, Lind has a better average, more home runs, more walks, and a higher OBP at 1/30th (or whatever it is) of the cost. Players struggle. It happens. Take away walks, and Bautista's numbers are hideous too. His numbers will improve though, and so will Lind's. Our whole lineup is just not producing like they are capable of right now (minus a couple guys). If Lind was dead last on the team in every statistic and was striking out every plate appearance, I would understand the bashing, but hes not even last in any statistic. He is 3rd in walks, middle of the road on strikeouts, tied for 2nd in extra base hits, 2nd most doubles, has a better average than Bautista. I'm not saying the numbers are great, but its completely unfair the way you guys go around bashing him and I am really sick of it, and I will not be coming around to this forum anymore if this bashing continues (not that anyone cares).

Rant finished, go ahead and bash me.

Bing-****ing-O.

DrJamesNaismith
05-08-2012, 03:52 PM
Ya guys... Lind is better than Pujols!

The only player in TO history to reach greater heights, and own this city so completely was Mike James (of Raptor lore).

uhh, I think you really boarded the wrong train of logic with that comparison...

Your Adam Lind autographed rookie card is worthless.

We were invited to bash, right? I'm not missing something here am I.

2009mvp
05-08-2012, 03:56 PM
The same Travis Snider who couldn't even get a roster spot over a mediocre Eric Thames? Yeah, his upside is nice, but he must have a lot wrong to be able to play parts of 4 seasons in the majors then get demoted for a mediocre at best player...

This topic ain't worth the time to look it up, but Snider's big league slash line since the beginning of the 2010 season is better than Lind's in the same time. Face it, the guy is a mess. I sincerely hope you're not older than like 12 years old, otherwise your attachment to a pro athlete this way is kinda...creepy.

jon32
05-08-2012, 03:57 PM
The guy is simply one of the worst everyday players in the league. But ya, he gets bashed unfairly i guess because managers put him in the 4 hole. He should be in the bottom 3rd of the lineup. But cmon, if he was a shortstop or somthin his numbers would be alright.....but this guy is playing the easiest position aside from DH and his numbers clearly do not cut it. Quite honestly , him being in the cleanup spot is having a bit of a facor in Bautistas suckiness too believe it or not . ( not to make up excuses for bautista, but it certainly doesnt help having lind behind you )

bartron_44
05-08-2012, 04:08 PM
I am really tired of coming into this forum every day, and seeing a thread about anything at all being derailed by how awful you all think Lind is. I know Lind is struggling, but he is the only person you guys ever bash. You make excuses for Jose, Rasmus, Arencibia, Lawrie, but always bash Lind. It's really obnoxious and seriously takes away from my enjoyment of the forum when I see my favorite player constantly being bashed. Ok, I get it, his power numbers suck so far and his batting average is terrible. It happens. Look at a guy like Pujols, a guy who a lot of you were suggesting in the offseason we throw 250 million at to bring to Toronto. Right now, Lind has a better average, more home runs, more walks, and a higher OBP at 1/30th (or whatever it is) of the cost. Players struggle. It happens. Take away walks, and Bautista's numbers are hideous too. His numbers will improve though, and so will Lind's. Our whole lineup is just not producing like they are capable of right now (minus a couple guys). If Lind was dead last on the team in every statistic and was striking out every plate appearance, I would understand the bashing, but hes not even last in any statistic. He is 3rd in walks, middle of the road on strikeouts, tied for 2nd in extra base hits, 2nd most doubles, has a better average than Bautista. I'm not saying the numbers are great, but its completely unfair the way you guys go around bashing him and I am really sick of it, and I will not be coming around to this forum anymore if this bashing continues (not that anyone cares).

Rant finished, go ahead and bash me.


Dear lord......you deserve the bashing you are going to take for this one. If you can't see that Lind is just about the worst first basemen in the entire AL, then I don't think I can even debate with you as you obviously can't understand the basics on what makes a player good or bad.




2010: .237/.287/.713
2011: .251/.295/.734
2012: .194/.286/.608

No one really cares about his last 100 PA's (2012). The guy has an obp under .295 and OPS under .734 over his last 1260 PA's!! Those are awful numbers for a catcher, let alone a first baseman.

Sorry bro, but I wouldn't care where he was hitting in the batting order, I would still be calling for his head!! He has got to go, and he has got to go NOW!!!!


My only suggestion is to make life easier on yourself, and switch your favorite player.

TO Rapz
05-08-2012, 04:33 PM
:laugh: This is the best thread ever.

Tmath
05-08-2012, 05:33 PM
Nope.

Kenny Powders
05-08-2012, 05:41 PM
Lind sucks ***.

/thread

DubbyDubbs
05-08-2012, 06:08 PM
i heard it through the grapevine that Adam Lind sucks...

wamco
05-08-2012, 07:03 PM
lind sucks

dballss
05-08-2012, 07:37 PM
when sports athletes are good they are praised, when they suck they are bashed, whats wrong?

1hardcore
05-08-2012, 07:45 PM
Getting bashed is a part of the game that's why they make tons of money!

If youre sensitive about it , i believe it's because u have a personal relationship with the player.

To be diplomatic about it from a business standpoint .. it's better that Lind be with another team :)

Eagles4Lyfe
05-08-2012, 08:11 PM
:laugh2: :laugh2: You guys are effing da best

Lavy16
05-08-2012, 08:30 PM
Fire Lind

Krylian
05-08-2012, 08:40 PM
Fire Lind

Out of a cannon.

GNick
05-08-2012, 08:50 PM
I am really tired of coming into this forum every day, and seeing a thread about anything at all being derailed by how awful you all think Lind is. I know Lind is struggling, but he is the only person you guys ever bash. You make excuses for Jose, Rasmus, Arencibia, Lawrie, but always bash Lind. It's really obnoxious and seriously takes away from my enjoyment of the forum when I see my favorite player constantly being bashed. Ok, I get it, his power numbers suck so far and his batting average is terrible. It happens. Look at a guy like Pujols, a guy who a lot of you were suggesting in the offseason we throw 250 million at to bring to Toronto. Right now, Lind has a better average, more home runs, more walks, and a higher OBP at 1/30th (or whatever it is) of the cost. Players struggle. It happens. Take away walks, and Bautista's numbers are hideous too. His numbers will improve though, and so will Lind's. Our whole lineup is just not producing like they are capable of right now (minus a couple guys). If Lind was dead last on the team in every statistic and was striking out every plate appearance, I would understand the bashing, but hes not even last in any statistic. He is 3rd in walks, middle of the road on strikeouts, tied for 2nd in extra base hits, 2nd most doubles, has a better average than Bautista. I'm not saying the numbers are great, but its completely unfair the way you guys go around bashing him and I am really sick of it, and I will not be coming around to this forum anymore if this bashing continues (not that anyone cares).

Rant finished, go ahead and bash me.

Lind is classic case why platoon at 1b as he can't hit LHP pitching. Causes him to go in prolonged slumps. Lind's OPS against RHP is .834 career. Need to find good RH bat who can play 1b. Encarncion hits better when he is DH alone.

broncosfan_101
05-08-2012, 08:54 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&players=0

2010-2012, all qualified 1B in baseball. Check who's last in WAR, and then check who's 3 spots higher....

Abdul Mutalib
05-08-2012, 08:56 PM
lol nice

GNick
05-08-2012, 09:16 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&players=0

2010-2012, all qualified 1B in baseball. Check who's last in WAR, and then check who's 3 spots higher....

Napoli next to Fielder what a pickup he would be?

Krylian
05-08-2012, 09:36 PM
The only negative WAR player. Just awful for 1B....for any position actually...but especially bad for 1B.

ThunderZubb
05-08-2012, 09:44 PM
My 6 year old sister is better than Adam crappy lind. Lind freaking sucks donkey **** and he should get released. Everytiime he comes up to bat lol it is automatic out and you can tell that he is a for sure out.

Get rid of this crappy player.

bomber0104
05-08-2012, 09:49 PM
I think the fact that he has been crap for 3 years now has a lot to do with it..

and you really think people are defending those other players

Jose looks like **** and everyone has said it in the game threads
Lawrie is hitting nothing hard and has his infield singles to thank for his respectable avg.
JPA is not expected to his .300 since he's a catcher and he has been good lately
Rasmus has hit a lot of balls hard and played great defense so you can't fault him there

Abdul Mutalib
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
what is starting to bother me is always seeing his name here, we should start callin him by another name now lol

JMac4PM
05-08-2012, 10:02 PM
I'm a big Lind fan and think he can rebound because he has such a great swing and I thought he was going to have a comeback year this year... but I'll admit that I am wrong.

It just aint working out here for him... he needs to go... not dropped down in the line up.... not benched.... he needs to be released or traded.

FlakeyFool
05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
how can you be a fan of a guy who has sucked absolute butt hole 4 of the last 5 years. Why don't you just root for mccoy while your at it.

BlueJayFanDan
05-09-2012, 12:29 AM
God, you guys are acting like I think he is the best player in Baseball. I never said that. I am obviously his only fan on here it seems, but my point was he gets unfairly treated and it is pretty annoying and takes away from the quality of threads. The second a player has a bad few games, you all bash them like crazy. All of you were in love with Lind and Hill in 09. Then in 2010 you were all calling them worthless players. Why cant people just be supportive of players going through slumps rather than bash them like crazy? The only Blue Jays player I have 100% consistently bashed in recent memory is Jo-Jo Reyes, because he is literally one of the worst pitchers I have ever seen. Guys struggle, it happens. Lind had a really good month at one point last season and everyone loved him again before he dropped off. Lind has the swing and potential to get back to 09 form. Stop bashing on him in every single ****ing thread.

2009mvp
05-09-2012, 12:53 AM
This isn't ****ing little league. You don't deliver in 2+ seasons and the fans are gonna turn on you. That's pro sports. The guy makes 5M a year, I wouldn't feel too bad for him. As it's been pointed out hundreds of times before this isn't just a slump, it's who he is at this point.

Toxeryll
05-09-2012, 01:24 AM
God, you guys are acting like I think he is the best player in Baseball. I never said that. I am obviously his only fan on here it seems, but my point was he gets unfairly treated and it is pretty annoying and takes away from the quality of threads. The second a player has a bad few games, you all bash them like crazy. All of you were in love with Lind and Hill in 09. Then in 2010 you were all calling them worthless players. Why cant people just be supportive of players going through slumps rather than bash them like crazy? The only Blue Jays player I have 100% consistently bashed in recent memory is Jo-Jo Reyes, because he is literally one of the worst pitchers I have ever seen. Guys struggle, it happens. Lind had a really good month at one point last season and everyone loved him again before he dropped off. Lind has the swing and potential to get back to 09 form. Stop bashing on him in every single ****ing thread.

he deserves to be bashed when hes arguably the worst position player in the bigs. what slump are you talking about, this is his norm, the 09 form ur talking about is clearly an outlier. stop having a man crush on the guy, it doesnt look good on you.

nads83
05-09-2012, 02:01 AM
Lind and Cordero are the only guys on the team currently i can NOT defend. They offer little to nothing to this team. i'd be fine with snider being called up as soon as hes off the DL to take linds spot. we've given him every chance to prove 2009 wasnt a fluke. guess what? it was. lets move on already and provide bautista with some much needed protection.

nads83
05-09-2012, 02:04 AM
and comparing pujols to lind in ANY context is blasphemy

mtf
05-09-2012, 04:42 AM
Adam Lind is fair game for criticism. He is occupying a premium offensive position as both the first baseman and the clean-up hitter and he isn't doing anything to deserve it. He has had 5 years (not including this season) where he played 85+ games in a season, and only in one of those years did he finish with an OPS greater than .755 (2009).

Alex Anthopoulos also deserves some blame here. If you're going to be fair, and give him credit when he does great stuff for the organization, it's also fair to criticize when he neglects an obvious area of concern. Those of us who were advocates of having the Blue Jays sign Prince Fielder in the off-season were not simply doing it on the merits of Fielder himself, but also due to the giant void in the current line-up that Adam Lind is the cause of.

I understand it's very hard on some of you to hear criticisms of your favorite players, even when those players are struggling for several years in a row. Some of you gentle souls cannot take the public negativity directed at certain people in the organization. The internet may not be for you.

ByShine
05-09-2012, 04:48 AM
adam lind is garbage and needs to be traded

Lavy16
05-09-2012, 07:06 AM
adam lind is garbage and needs to be traded

You think some othe team would actually want him besides my Tuesday night beer league softball team?

Halladay
05-09-2012, 07:42 AM
You couldn't give Lind away at this point. Teams aren't lining up for first basemen who got cut from baseball timbits.

GNick
05-09-2012, 08:17 AM
Anthopulos does appear overly patient waiting for potential to produce. He did it last year with Jo-Jo and Rivera, this year Lind may be in that category.

As time goes by can find the weaknesses in a GM. Riccardi looked like Gold his first 2 years, especially after Jays 87 win 2003 season. These boards were screamimg by you posters to get him signed long term in fear he would jump ship to Red Sox. But as seasons went by could find his faults and how it kept Toronto from being a contender. Now the bullpen implodes again this year and AA appears to relaxed to make a move on Lind. He is starting unlikeable trends

killersweet
05-09-2012, 10:02 AM
God, you guys are acting like I think he is the best player in Baseball. I never said that. I am obviously his only fan on here it seems, but my point was he gets unfairly treated and it is pretty annoying and takes away from the quality of threads. The second a player has a bad few games, you all bash them like crazy. All of you were in love with Lind and Hill in 09. Then in 2010 you were all calling them worthless players. Why cant people just be supportive of players going through slumps rather than bash them like crazy? The only Blue Jays player I have 100% consistently bashed in recent memory is Jo-Jo Reyes, because he is literally one of the worst pitchers I have ever seen. Guys struggle, it happens. Lind had a really good month at one point last season and everyone loved him again before he dropped off. Lind has the swing and potential to get back to 09 form. Stop bashing on him in every single ****ing thread.

Don't tell me who I can bash or can't bash. If you have the right to defend Lind, I have the same right to bash him. He deserves all the negative attacks he is receiving. I have no idea why he is still hitting clean up. He should be batting 9th in the order (I would bench him personally). If he played a position like SS or 2B, at least you can say, it is a premier position. He plays 1st freaking Base and there are plenty of decent options at that spot. I had this clown on my Fantasy team last year (cuz I wanted to have at least one Jay on my team) and he caused me so much misery. So yea, go cry me a river! I hope you are not serious about this topic and just think that you are just seeking some attention.

boilerguy2412
05-09-2012, 10:36 AM
The mods have done a terrible job in this forum controlling what goes on here, this forum has lost a lot of good Jays posters over the years. I never post and hardly read this forum because of the ***** fests that happen here. I hope at some point the Jays forum gets cleaned up because i am a huge Jays fan and would love to talk Jays but i choose to do so elsewhere. I have made my feelings known several times but nothing ever changes.

I mean if we can keep things civil in the Leafs forum why not here

Tmath
05-09-2012, 11:08 AM
The mods have done a terrible job in this forum controlling what goes on here, this forum has lost a lot of good Jays posters over the years. I never post and hardly read this forum because of the ***** fests that happen here. I hope at some point the Jays forum gets cleaned up because i am a huge Jays fan and would love to talk Jays but i choose to do so elsewhere. I have made my feelings known several times but nothing ever changes.

I mean if we can keep things civil in the Leafs forum why not here

When a team sucks for 20 years because of the same issues its only natural people aren't going to be happy and rightfully so.

boilerguy2412
05-09-2012, 11:17 AM
When a team sucks for 20 years because of the same issues its only natural people aren't going to be happy and rightfully so.

I hear ya man, there is no reason this team shouldn't be spending a bit more money to be more competitive, but there is no need for personal attacks and everything else that happens on this forum. Nobody is going to agree on everything and that is fine, thats what makes forums fun, but the way people attack one another is outrages. Some people know more about baseball and some no less it's like that with everything in life, just because someone might not know as much about somethign as you do doesn't make them an idiot or stupid and thats what so many people in here do.

I think a perfect example is the Leafs forum not everyone agrees on everything but there is next to no fighting or personal attacks there and the Leafs haven't won anything since anyone on this site was alive.

Farsight
05-09-2012, 11:25 AM
In all honesty, this is by far the best jays forum on the Internet. I don't want to list other sites, but there are some posters on here that participate on these other forums where it's a complete **** show. This is by far the most civil jays forum

mtf
05-09-2012, 12:39 PM
The mods have done a terrible job in this forum controlling what goes on here, this forum has lost a lot of good Jays posters over the years. I never post and hardly read this forum because of the ***** fests that happen here. I hope at some point the Jays forum gets cleaned up because i am a huge Jays fan and would love to talk Jays but i choose to do so elsewhere. I have made my feelings known several times but nothing ever changes.

I mean if we can keep things civil in the Leafs forum why not here

I must disagree with you. Twitchy, in particular, has been active in closing threads or deleting posts with childish comments and stuff like that. A few other mods as well, who's names I can't recall at the moment.

mtf
05-09-2012, 12:54 PM
In related news, Adam Lind dropped to 8th in the line-up today. Baby steps to getting this guy out of the starting 9.

Krylian
05-09-2012, 12:57 PM
Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end.

Now watch Lind go 3-4 with 2 homers and 5 rbi today, and then proceed to suck for another 100AB's.

wamco
05-09-2012, 01:09 PM
When a team sucks for 20 years because of the same issues its only natural people aren't going to be happy and rightfully so.

no, that makes them whiners and impatient. Only after 40 years can you be disgruntled.

Bigred91
05-09-2012, 01:24 PM
Lind and Cordero are the only guys on the team currently i can NOT defend. They offer little to nothing to this team. i'd be fine with snider being called up as soon as hes off the DL to take linds spot. we've given him every chance to prove 2009 wasnt a fluke. guess what? it was. lets move on already and provide bautista with some much needed protection.

At this point I would be fine with them bringing up Snider to be the closer. But seriously though can everybody stop bagging on Cordero. He is my favourite Jay.

JaysHabs
05-09-2012, 01:35 PM
Thing is dude, the other guys are either getting on base more, driving in runs, or at the very least hitting the ball hard (even if its for outs). Thing is Lind has gotten into a serious *** out approach to swinging. unless a pitcher hangs an off-speed he wont hit. I would toss Lind outside all year and watch him strike out or ground out to 2nd base. He has no approach, no timing, and wont change his technique. He needs a change. I aint bashing him, but he aint doing anything, and thats a fact.

pebloemer
05-09-2012, 01:40 PM
While advocating for the Lind bashing to stop, you created a great thread for people to bash Lind.

You are arguing against like 50 other people and don't seem to have any supporters. You may want to consider the validity of their position.

wamco
05-09-2012, 01:44 PM
batting 8th now, go bash farrell for "hating"

Dol-Fan
05-09-2012, 01:46 PM
Stoeten sums up a few of my thoughts on the topic...


Add in the 26 plate appearances Lind has been inexplicably given against lefties (wRC+ of 25!!?!), and you get right about to the magic 100 at-bat mark that John Farrell uses as a benchmark for assessment of a player… at the start of a season. Because, y’know, what possible ****ing sense would it make, when constructing a lineup, to look at the 1155 plate appearances over the previous two seasons in which Lind also sucked?
No, no, these 100 have finally told us that Adam Lind… Adam Lind might not be very good. Multi-million dollar asset management, everybody!!!!

Farsight
05-09-2012, 02:04 PM
to be fair to Farrell, im sure his hand was forced by AA to play him at the start of the season (seeing as AA refuses to give up on him after 2 horrendous years)

Lavy16
05-09-2012, 02:12 PM
If that is ture, it's time to start to question AA...same problems the past 2 years and nothing done to fix them

purplehaze89
05-09-2012, 02:16 PM
Adam Lind sucks and I pray to Satan for the day AA is forced to move on.

mtf
05-09-2012, 03:35 PM
If that is ture, it's time to start to question AA...same problems the past 2 years and nothing done to fix them

That's what I was saying earlier in the thread. Anthopoulos has made some good moves, but there's some things he's done (or not done) that are quite questionable. Leaving Adam Lind as the every-day first baseman, and clean-up hitter, was a huge blunder that most reasonable fans could see in the off-season.

I understand why he did it; Rogers is asking him to make a team on a low budget (as they did with Ricciardi and his Moneyball experience) and Lind was a relatively cheap option, but a player who can't perform well while occupying such an important role is something that was perfectly predictable and inexcusable.

wamco
05-09-2012, 04:25 PM
had to attempt to get him to raise his trade value. And going into this year, Lind as a platoon player at least made sense. That being said, he should have been out of the heart of the order a month ago, that is Cito crap.

Stress
05-09-2012, 05:42 PM
Adam Lind is great
at sucking.

bomber0104
05-09-2012, 05:52 PM
AA doesn't have much of a choice but to give Lind at least half a season to see what he does.. but he definitely shouldn't be doing it in the clean up spot which is on Farrell

Halladay
05-09-2012, 06:09 PM
I'm sure this goes beyond AA, probably right from ownership tbh. Counting those beans over at Rogers.

Toxeryll
05-09-2012, 07:10 PM
That's what I was saying earlier in the thread. Anthopoulos has made some good moves, but there's some things he's done (or not done) that are quite questionable. Leaving Adam Lind as the every-day first baseman, and clean-up hitter, was a huge blunder that most reasonable fans could see in the off-season.

I understand why he did it; Rogers is asking him to make a team on a low budget (as they did with Ricciardi and his Moneyball experience) and Lind was a relatively cheap option, but a player who can't perform well while occupying such an important role is something that was perfectly predictable and inexcusable.

im pretty sure putting Lind on the cleanup spot was not AA's decision

scottythegreat1
05-09-2012, 07:55 PM
Farrell let him try to get out of it...now that Farrell hasg iven him MORE than enough time to show why he is batting fourth, he is batting eighth today, and did better

alistar
05-09-2012, 09:40 PM
That's what I was saying earlier in the thread. Anthopoulos has made some good moves, but there's some things he's done (or not done) that are quite questionable. Leaving Adam Lind as the every-day first baseman, and clean-up hitter, was a huge blunder that most reasonable fans could see in the off-season.

I understand why he did it; Rogers is asking him to make a team on a low budget (as they did with Ricciardi and his Moneyball experience) and Lind was a relatively cheap option, but a player who can't perform well while occupying such an important role is something that was perfectly predictable and inexcusable.

Uhh, I'm pretty sure Anthopoulos doesn't make those decisions. I think that's why teams hire managers.

nithanyo
05-09-2012, 09:49 PM
Uhh, I'm pretty sure Anthopoulos doesn't make those decisions. I think that's why teams hire managers.

Anthopolus gives the manager the pieces to work with. So basically it was him or Edwin with the other person DHing. We dont even have anyone coming up through the system at first. So Farell was not at fault for running him out there.

However he should have learned after 2 weeks of the season that Lind was not cut out to bat 4th especially with Edwin hitting well back there.

miller74
05-09-2012, 10:12 PM
lmao i stopped reading after u said hes ur fav player

Haha me too

alistar
05-09-2012, 10:21 PM
Anthopolus gives the manager the pieces to work with. So basically it was him or Edwin with the other person DHing. We dont even have anyone coming up through the system at first. So Farell was not at fault for running him out there.
However he should have learned after 2 weeks of the season that Lind was not cut out to bat 4th especially with Edwin hitting well back there.

It's Farrell and his staff's decision to bat him in the cleanup spot which is the big issue.

fatkev78
05-09-2012, 10:53 PM
BJFD: as a Jays fan & for your sake I hope Lind can turn it around batting lower in the lineup.

JaysFan87
05-10-2012, 12:59 AM
While i was clearly in the Lind has been one of the worst players in the MLB in the past 2 years and will likely be this year boat, I think AA has a view of players that he must get the most value for them and will stick with them to see that value out. ANd I think that he is a value whore and hates giving up on players while there value is at the lowest. That being said I dont think he beleives that Lind is going ot be a long term solution at 1B in the future and I doubt he thought that last year either. AA is wise enough to see who bad Lind has been but its not like he is going to throw his player under the bus. It makes no sense to do that as it benefits no one.

But like I said at the beginning of the season the organization is going ot give Lind adn Thames every opportunity to succeed and will put them in the best position positions to succeed before making any decisions (long term) on them. Its the first week in may and the team is playing above .500 with essentially no production out of Lind. No whatever happens with Lind this year will be 2 years coming and who knows maybe he can be a good platoon/bench bat to come in and face righties, idk. But unless AA was going to give out 10 year contracts to Pujols or Fielder last off season there was no real long term option at 1B that I think AA would want.

But I think now AA/Farrell have exhausted the "give Lind the best chance to succeed option" and are now in the "if he produces anything this year that is remotely productive, we'll take it option".

2009mvp
05-10-2012, 01:46 AM
^^Bull****. If he didn't want to have to sell Lind at his lowest point he would have sold him in the offseason. Why isn't the onus for evaluating Lind's true talent since all the way back to 2009 not on Anthopolous? The guy's an average-ish platoon bat at best with no defensive value, unless you thought 2009 was the real Lind as opposed to the rest of his career there was no reason to think he'd be a productive first baseman. I don't understand how you can make excuses for AA when it's pretty clear he dropped the ball at first base (and with Cordero, but that's another discussion). There didn't have to be a longterm solution at first base to get rid of Lind, average to slightly below average first baseman are a dime a dozen.

mtf
05-10-2012, 02:01 AM
Uhh, I'm pretty sure Anthopoulos doesn't make those decisions. I think that's why teams hire managers.

In the absence of another player who would fit the role, he basically stuck Farrell with Lind in that spot. I mean, who else would they start at clean-up at the beginning of the season. No one really predicted Encarnacion would be particularly good (and he's starting to come back to his usual performance now). Lawrie's career was about a month old.

Once again, the point was in the off-season, many of us casual fans could see the huge hole in the middle of the line-up and the lack of offense from first-base, which should be a premium offensive position. That wasn't Farrell's failure, it was Anthopoulos'. But yes, a sarcastic reply to try to use semantics to nitpick while ignoring the point is a pretty solid counter-argument.

Sanyo
05-10-2012, 02:11 AM
Yes, so they finally moved him down the lineup card. As I stated many times, Lind's a good hitter but the pressure of being clean up was clearly affectng his game. He's a smooth natural hitter, not necessarily a power guy who you can depend on for 30 hr, 100+ rbi's. At 7th or 8th he can still deliever some damage being a 20, 25 hr guy and start taking some more walks as he's not pressured to having to drive in runs anymore...Edwin is a perfect 4 for now...

Toxeryll
05-10-2012, 02:50 AM
In the absence of another player who would fit the role, he basically stuck Farrell with Lind in that spot. I mean, who else would they start at clean-up at the beginning of the season. No one really predicted Encarnacion would be particularly good (and he's starting to come back to his usual performance now). Lawrie's career was about a month old.

Once again, the point was in the off-season, many of us casual fans could see the huge hole in the middle of the line-up and the lack of offense from first-base, which should be a premium offensive position. That wasn't Farrell's failure, it was Anthopoulos'. But yes, a sarcastic reply to try to use semantics to nitpick while ignoring the point is a pretty solid counter-argument.

2010-12

1) RF Bautista: 1470pa, .993ops, .420woba, 166wRC+
2) 3B Lawrie: 297pa, .853ops, .370woba, 135wRC+
3) DH En'cion: 1026pa, .801ops, .347woba, 117wRC+
4) 2B Johnson: 1412pa, .799ops, .351woba, 114wRC+
5) LF Thames: 491pa, .760ops, .329woba, 105wRC+
6) CF Rasmus: 1174pa, .760ops, .328woba, 105wRC+
7) SS Escobar: 1293pa, .709ops, .319woba, 97wRC+
8) 1B A.Lind: 1264pa, .711ops, .307woba, 89wRC+
9) C Arencibia: 610pa, .699ops, .302woba, 87wRC+

hmm when you have these kind of data available to you, its really dumb to put Lind in the cleanup spot. i mean anyone outside of JPA can be a better cleanup hitter than lind based on the stats over the past two years. I dont see how AA is at fault for putting lind in the cleanup spot.

mtf
05-10-2012, 02:57 AM
2010-12

1) RF Bautista: 1470pa, .993ops, .420woba, 166wRC+
2) 3B Lawrie: 297pa, .853ops, .370woba, 135wRC+
3) DH En'cion: 1026pa, .801ops, .347woba, 117wRC+
4) 2B Johnson: 1412pa, .799ops, .351woba, 114wRC+
5) LF Thames: 491pa, .760ops, .329woba, 105wRC+
6) CF Rasmus: 1174pa, .760ops, .328woba, 105wRC+
7) SS Escobar: 1293pa, .709ops, .319woba, 97wRC+
8) 1B A.Lind: 1264pa, .711ops, .307woba, 89wRC+
9) C Arencibia: 610pa, .699ops, .302woba, 87wRC+

hmm when you have these kind of data available to you, its really dumb to put Lind in the cleanup spot. i mean anyone outside of JPA can be a better cleanup hitter than lind based on the stats over the past two years. I dont see how AA is at fault for putting lind in the cleanup spot.

I said that AA deserves his share of the blame, not all of the blame. But yes, context is overrated around here. No one on that roster, with the exception of Bautista, was a suitable #3 or #4 hitter for a playoff contending team going into the season. I'd argue that Encarnacion still isn't. He had a good month, but is yet to prove he can sustain it. Anthopoulos had opportunities to solidify the offense this off-season, and many of us knew the middle of the line-up needed help to form a true contender, and not just another .500 (+/- 5 wins) team.

JaysFan87
05-10-2012, 12:30 PM
^^Bull****. If he didn't want to have to sell Lind at his lowest point he would have sold him in the offseason. Why isn't the onus for evaluating Lind's true talent since all the way back to 2009 not on Anthopolous? The guy's an average-ish platoon bat at best with no defensive value, unless you thought 2009 was the real Lind as opposed to the rest of his career there was no reason to think he'd be a productive first baseman. I don't understand how you can make excuses for AA when it's pretty clear he dropped the ball at first base (and with Cordero, but that's another discussion). There didn't have to be a longterm solution at first base to get rid of Lind, average to slightly below average first baseman are a dime a dozen.

By no means am I defending AA. What i said was that he does not want to lose value on a player and will try (and maybe to a fault) to extract as much value for the team as possible. I dont know what AA thinks about Lind's true value thats just my opinion from afar. No Gm is going to make every decision 100% correct and sometimes they will back fire. But he did stick with EE when everyone though he was release material and EE paid him back for that, similarly with Bautista but on a lower level.

Whatever happens with Lind and this team will always far to the feet of AA as he is the GM. But realistically nothing beyond Fielder and Pujols was available though FA and the trade market didnt really materialize everything. Who knows maybe he did try to get a FA to come here but maybe they passed, i dont know. But lets see how this ends up before people make decisions. Thats all Im saying.

Twitchy
05-10-2012, 12:49 PM
Pena, Scott, Betemit vs RHP (812 OPS this year and 865-870 the past 2) and Willingham (DH, EE to 1B) were the best external options outside of Pujols/Fielder. Moving Bautista to 1B with EE DHing or vice versa would have allowed the Jays to have Thames and Snider in the same OF so we could evaluate both of them at the same time.

There were plenty of options. Let's not pretend that there was nothing outside of Fielder or Pujols.

JaysFan87
05-10-2012, 06:19 PM
Pena, Scott, Betemit vs RHP (812 OPS this year and 865-870 the past 2) and Willingham (DH, EE to 1B) were the best external options outside of Pujols/Fielder. Moving Bautista to 1B with EE DHing or vice versa would have allowed the Jays to have Thames and Snider in the same OF so we could evaluate both of them at the same time.

There were plenty of options. Let's not pretend that there was nothing outside of Fielder or Pujols.

I do and Im sure you would agree that none of those guys are players who you'd consider to be solutions to anything. Eash of them come with their warts. I think ideally AA hoped Lind would not suck as much as he has but he is not as bad as he has been so far and id probably best suited as a platoon bat at best which is what those options you mentioned above were. AA's fault he is that he has yet to find a long term solution at 1B since he took over in Nov 09 when Lind came of his career year.

Twitchy
05-10-2012, 06:39 PM
I do and Im sure you would agree that none of those guys are players who you'd consider to be solutions to anything.

I completely disagree and if you go through my posts from the offseason you'll note that I recommended Betemit and Pena as good platoon options.

Saying that they're not solutions is just crazy.


Eash of them come with their warts.

But they're still significantly better than Lind. Don't try to argue that those guys aren't clear upgrades over Lind. They are several wins better over the course of a season.


I think ideally AA hoped Lind would not suck as much as he has but he is not as bad as he has been so far and id probably best suited as a platoon bat at best which is what those options you mentioned above were.

Lind has been below replacement level the past 2 years. It doesn't matter if he should be better than this, he'd still be a worthless option at first.

And while the other bats are platoon at bats, let's look at how they've done vs RHP the past few years, shall we?

Betemit 2011 - 865 OPS
Betemit 2010 - 873 OPS

Pena 2011 - 892 OPS
Pena 2010 - 759 OPS (the only year of his career since 2003 it's been lower than 810 and I think 850 since 2008).

Scott in 2011 (injured and had 200 or so AB) - 686 OPS
Scott in 2010 - 935 OPS

Willingham in 2011 - 810 OPS overall (so no platoon issues)
Willingham in 2010 - 848 OPS overall (no platoon issues)

Lind in 2011 - 771 OPS
Lind in 2010 - 829 OPS

If you look at every single option listed, they're significantly better than Lind in every case except for Luke Scott who was injured. Pena's typically been a 900 OPS vs RHP, Scott is an 850-900 OPS guy vs RHP, Betemit is firmly an 850-860 OPS, while Willingham is a guy who has played mostly in pitchers parks and still managed an 800 OPS. Lind at his best is basically the floor for everybody else that I mentioned.

And you're going to tell me that Lind is somehow remotely as valuable as them as platoon bats? Not a chance.


AA's fault he is that he has yet to find a long term solution at 1B since he took over in Nov 09 when Lind came of his career year.

Who said anything about finding a long term option? It's pretty clear within a year or two that's Bautista's spot.

JaysFan87
05-10-2012, 08:03 PM
I completely disagree and if you go through my posts from the offseason you'll note that I recommended Betemit and Pena as good platoon options.

Saying that they're not solutions is just crazy.



But they're still significantly better than Lind. Don't try to argue that those guys aren't clear upgrades over Lind. They are several wins better over the course of a season.



Lind has been below replacement level the past 2 years. It doesn't matter if he should be better than this, he'd still be a worthless option at first.

And while the other bats are platoon at bats, let's look at how they've done vs RHP the past few years, shall we?

Betemit 2011 - 865 OPS
Betemit 2010 - 873 OPS

Pena 2011 - 892 OPS
Pena 2010 - 759 OPS (the only year of his career since 2003 it's been lower than 810 and I think 850 since 2008).

Scott in 2011 (injured and had 200 or so AB) - 686 OPS
Scott in 2010 - 935 OPS

Willingham in 2011 - 810 OPS overall (so no platoon issues)
Willingham in 2010 - 848 OPS overall (no platoon issues)

Lind in 2011 - 771 OPS
Lind in 2010 - 829 OPS

If you look at every single option listed, they're significantly better than Lind in every case except for Luke Scott who was injured. Pena's typically been a 900 OPS vs RHP, Scott is an 850-900 OPS guy vs RHP, Betemit is firmly an 850-860 OPS, while Willingham is a guy who has played mostly in pitchers parks and still managed an 800 OPS. Lind at his best is basically the floor for everybody else that I mentioned.

And you're going to tell me that Lind is somehow remotely as valuable as them as platoon bats? Not a chance.



Who said anything about finding a long term option? It's pretty clear within a year or two that's Bautista's spot.


Look I get what you saying. Like i said before I've been in the same boat as you when it comes to Lind and how bad he has been and last year was the worst. But in 2009/2010 he was a 850+ OPS hitter against RH. while last year he was just bad against everyone. He is not that bad (i dont think) and if put in a place where he is strictly a platoon bat I think he will succeed. Of the guys who you mentioned that I might have considered would have been Willingham strictly as a 1B option. I would assume that AA did his due diligence on him.

the_lazy_man
05-15-2012, 12:13 PM
Ill just simply say I think we have to continue the Lind bashing, I mean this dude plays like hes on the other team half of the ****ing time.

ByShine
05-15-2012, 11:08 PM
lind is garbage trade him for a minor prospect

FlakeyFool
05-15-2012, 11:15 PM
thats too much value for a team to give up

ThunderZubb
05-16-2012, 12:13 AM
Trade Lind for a bag of popcorn, hotdog and bag of chips

Any takers?

wamco
05-16-2012, 08:19 AM
get rid of lind, francisco and cordero

LuckyLuke2
05-16-2012, 09:14 AM
get rid of lind, francisco and cordero

Lind yes. Cordero maybe... AA may just deal him to a playoff contender like he did with Dotel.

Francisco is a non factor... he's just a bench player. He's actually a decent hitter just hasn't had enough playing time not that he deserves more.

Lind will be a difficult trade because his value is low as hell right now.

wamco
05-16-2012, 10:19 AM
i'm fine with cordero pitching in mop up duty. I freak out every time I see him coming out to protect a lead though.

GrumpyOldMan
05-17-2012, 01:51 PM
I promise to stop bashing Lind as long as he stays in AAA.

Towelie
05-17-2012, 02:13 PM
We can stop the bashing now! He's gone!

Farsight
05-17-2012, 02:15 PM
We can stop the bashing now! He's gone! Well... atleast off the major league roster. I would feel a lot better if he was off the team, but this will do for now!

Krylian
05-17-2012, 02:31 PM
Can we show a little sensitivity, folks? BlueJayFanDan just had his heart broken.

Toxeryll
05-17-2012, 02:50 PM
so who now becomes the next whipping boy

town123
05-17-2012, 02:52 PM
so who now becomes the next whipping boy

JPA is pissed that Lind got sent down. He figures he will be the Wboy again.

Valleyfella
05-17-2012, 03:01 PM
so who now becomes the next whipping boy

For Snider lovers, Thames. For everyone else, Rasmus.

Toxeryll
05-17-2012, 03:04 PM
I figured it will be either Thames or JPA since we have Snider and Darnaud

Krylian
05-17-2012, 03:11 PM
Coco.

Twitchy
05-17-2012, 03:12 PM
Seeing as he's demoted we don't really need this anymore.