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View Full Version : What happened to Andre Iguodala?



kjoke
05-06-2012, 03:28 PM
Why have his numbers decreased from where they were years ago. With Iverson gone, he was suppose to be the face of the franchise. He's only 28, so why has he regressed?

Amare1
05-06-2012, 03:29 PM
He was never that good, a solid rotation player

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-06-2012, 03:33 PM
he's not a franchise player

D12 fan
05-06-2012, 03:39 PM
He's a defensive player,solid starter,he's definitely overpaid for his production.

GoPacers33
05-06-2012, 03:39 PM
He actually has good players around him now

kvrnm
05-06-2012, 03:44 PM
scoring isnt really his role right now, and the sixers are playin well he i still a big part of that. he gets the ball pushes it on the break and is making good pass's as well as playing good defense and team ball

bholly
05-06-2012, 03:45 PM
Why have his numbers decreased from where they were years ago. With Iverson gone, he was suppose to be the face of the franchise. He's only 28, so why has he regressed?

Iggy has played the best he's ever played this season. He's in his ideal role and he's generally been destroying it.
No idea how you can think he's regressed unless all you did was look at points averages for each year then stopped thinking about it.

VCaintdead17
05-06-2012, 03:46 PM
I don't think "regressed" is the right term. Doug Collins realized his limits on the offensive side of the floor, and wanted to utilize him primarily as a point forward/defensive speacialist instead, which is what he should be.

kjoke
05-06-2012, 03:46 PM
Iggy has played the best he's ever played this season. He's in his ideal role and he's generally been destroying it.
No idea how you can think he's regressed unless all you did was look at points averages for each year then stopped thinking about it.

I think the expectations for him when Iverson left were much more than role player. That's what I mean. It's as if he settled for doing the little things. Nothing wrong with that, but I would like to have seen a more asertive Andre

More-Than-Most
05-06-2012, 03:48 PM
God I hope we trade him...Every time he shoots I throw up a little in my mouth. He is over paid...He is a great defender but should not being making what he makes and is not the guy he tries to be...He wants to be the go to guy so badly but he isn't and will never be. He has gone away from that some this year thank god.

pd7631
05-06-2012, 03:50 PM
I think the expectations for him when Iverson left were much more than role player. That's what I mean. It's as if he settled for doing the little things. Nothing wrong with that, but I would like to have seen a more asertive Andre

Where were you in the 3.5 seasons after we traded AI? Iggy was aggressive then, and was close to a 20ppg player. It didn't really get us anywhere though, and he, with the help of Doug Collins, has shifted his role to being an absolute lockdown defender. The result? We finished with a winning record for the first time since Iggy's rookie year.

kjoke
05-06-2012, 04:03 PM
Where were you in the 3.5 seasons after we traded AI? Iggy was aggressive then, and was close to a 20ppg player. It didn't really get us anywhere though, and he, with the help of Doug Collins, has shifted his role to being an absolute lockdown defender. The result? We finished with a winning record for the first time since Iggy's rookie year.

So... you correlate Andre's less role with the 76ers winning? I think it has more to do with Collins, good draft picks and young talent, more than Andre settling for a lesser role.

yaswaggin
05-06-2012, 04:06 PM
iggy is a solid #3 option. thats it.

he's grossly overpaid, but he does lockdown his defender and give fans some electric dunks.

if he had a respectable jumper, i honestly think he would be a top 5 SF.

every other aspect of his game is above-average other then his jumper.

The Final Boss
05-06-2012, 04:09 PM
He's on the same boat as Amar'e Stoudemire, only Stoudemire is the captain. They're both over hyped and extremely over paid. It's not their fault that they garnered undeserved hype and they are simply playing at the level that they truly are. Decent players at best.

bholly
05-06-2012, 04:13 PM
He's on the same boat as Amar'e Stoudemire, only Stoudemire is the captain. They're both over hyped and extremely over paid. It's not their fault that they garnered undeserved hype and they are simply playing at the level that they truly are. Decent players at best.

Except he's like the opposite to Amar'e Stoudemire. He's an elite defensive player, a great passer, does all the little things at a high level but just doesn't shoot a lot or score a lot.

5ass
05-06-2012, 04:26 PM
the sixers should look to trade him already and let evan turner step up.

Donuts365
05-06-2012, 04:38 PM
hes not a star just a good defensive player

2-ONE-5
05-06-2012, 04:39 PM
He actually has good players around him now

this. and the fact that he is unselfish. hasnt taken many shots the last 2 years. he could easily score 18-20 a night if he wanted like he was doing before

tyfreaks brotha
05-06-2012, 04:46 PM
God I hope we trade him...Every time he shoots I throw up a little in my mouth. He is over paid...He is a great defender but should not being making what he makes and is not the guy he tries to be...He wants to be the go to guy so badly but he isn't and will never be. He has gone away from that some this year thank god.

Kings will take him... We'll even take that scrub Jrue Holliday

tyfreaks brotha
05-06-2012, 04:49 PM
hes not a star just a good defensive player

What's up with your sig? :confused:

yaswaggin
05-06-2012, 04:57 PM
Kings will take him... We'll even take that scrub Jrue Holliday

only guy i'd want on the kings is demarcus cousins, but theres no way you guys are trading him.

sixers are set at sg with turner.

i woudnt mind a evans and iggy swap though, however i don't think evans's stock fell that low, and they basically have the same skill sets.

Bruno
05-06-2012, 05:27 PM
Iggy has played the best he's ever played this season. He's in his ideal role and he's generally been destroying it.
No idea how you can think he's regressed unless all you did was look at points averages for each year then stopped thinking about it.

i agree.

he's an elite defensive wing who can distribute. he's not going to take over games offensively, that's not what he does.

gilly
05-06-2012, 06:16 PM
I hope he realises that he is overpaid and accepts less to stay with us at around 10m/yr. He is a vital cog in our defensive system. If we can add a good big and use the Brand space next summer well, we could definitely contend.

pd7631
05-06-2012, 07:01 PM
So... you correlate Andre's less role with the 76ers winning? I think it has more to do with Collins, good draft picks and young talent, more than Andre settling for a lesser role.

Uh....yeah. He spends a lot more time working on shutting down the other team's best perimeter player (his main job as a rookie), and doesn't take nearly as many bad shots as he used to take.

Better defense + smarter offense = more wins

I'm not sure why you think he's regressed because he's scoring less points. This was the best season of his career; he made the all star team, and he's likely going to the olympics.

His role is as big as it's ever been with the team, but it's not the glamorous role.

willabeast77
05-06-2012, 07:07 PM
I also agree that he isn't as aggressive as he should be. He easily should be getting more shots and averaging more ppg. The way he played down these last few games and so far in the playoffs, shows that he really doesn't want to stay in Philadelphia. They need to get rid of him after the post-season and start rebuilding.

jericho
05-07-2012, 04:13 PM
He's on the same boat as Amar'e Stoudemire, only Stoudemire is the captain. They're both over hyped and extremely over paid. It's not their fault that they garnered undeserved hype and they are simply playing at the level that they truly are. Decent players at best.

how bout this then lets trade them amare for iggy yeah i know thats a no nobody wold be insane enough to trade iggy for stat :(

sep11ie
05-07-2012, 04:32 PM
All the modern day basketball fan looks at is stat lines.

jericho
05-07-2012, 04:42 PM
All the modern day bsketball fan looks at is stat lines.

agree i wld love to love to have iggy on my team he does a lot on the court he really doesnt need to score to be effective

THE MTL
05-07-2012, 04:44 PM
I think he realized his true role and what defines him as an NBA player. When AI left, he was given the franchise and forced to do alot of things that he just simply wasnt built for. Sure his numbers looked nice 19-5-5 but Sixers werent winning, he was inefficient, streaky, etc.

His role right now is perfect, it is just that he gets paid a ridiculous amount of money for that particular role lol.

SeoulBeatz
05-07-2012, 04:59 PM
To be honest this has been his best season as a Sixer.

The numbers don't jump out at you (at all), but he is playing his role to perfection. He is a lockdown defender, point-forward/facilitator, and finisher.

He has the lowest opponent PER in the NBA. Meaning he's statistically the best man to man defender in the league. He shuts people down.

I do wish he were more aggressive attacking the basket with all that athleticism, but I'm happy he isn't nearly as trigger happy as he used to be with jumpers. He takes good shots and he's shooting pretty well from 3.

He deserved to be an allstar this year because he is arguably the best wing defender in the league (and the stats back it up). He's also an exciting player and provides electrifying plays night in and night out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cy1Ur4oMsE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdLjCtNquWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T35jXN0z2E

He's not a #1 option, he was just forced into that position because the Sixers lacked a go-to scorer in the post-Iverson era. Now, we finally have players that are stepping up and taking the reigns, and Iggy has transitioned into his new role perfectly.

Swashcuff
05-07-2012, 05:03 PM
Andre Iguodala is one of the best 2 way players in the league and just came off having arguably the best season of his career. Nothing is wrong with him. Unreal expectations was placed upon him by the organization and he was paid as such that doesn't make him less of a player. His acceptance and understanding of his role is actually what makes him a better player.

PhillyStandUp
05-07-2012, 06:19 PM
Too bad the Sixers are going to trade Iggy after this season. Doubt we get full value in return.

2-ONE-5
05-07-2012, 06:42 PM
^oh you know this as a fact? what else does your magic 8 ball full of BS say?

Swashcuff
05-07-2012, 06:47 PM
iggy is a solid #3 option. thats it.

he's grossly overpaid, but he does lockdown his defender and give fans some electric dunks.

if he had a respectable jumper, i honestly think he would be a top 5 SF.

every other aspect of his game is above-average other then his jumper.

This myth about Iggy's jumper is one that needs to be abolished

Because this past season he converted on his J at a higher rate than Luol Deng, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Love among others. I think Iggy's struggles with his jump shot are over emphasized and many really don't know how much he has grown this season in that aspect of his game.

In terms of his jump shot efficiency he's better been than Kobe, Westbrook, Monta, Melo, Gay, Rose and Love so I think if Iggy is going seen as having a poor jump shot those other players should be placed under a microscope as well.

All we have to do is compare Iggy's jumper eFG% to other that are regarded by many as having a steady jumper to get an accurate understanding of his jumper.


Player FG%
Andre Iguodala 0.441
Michael Beasley 0.441
Paul Pierce 0.441
Kevin Love 0.430
Kobe Bryant 0.425
R Westbrook 0.420
Derrick Rose 0.415
Tony Parker 0.414
Luol Deng 0.411
Monta Ellis 0.402
Carmelo Anthony 0.400
Rudy Gay 0.399
Dwyane Wade 0.397

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=JUMP_SHOT&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q1=Y&q2=Y&q3=Y&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

He has also been among the better three point shooters in the league this season. His 39.4% on 193 3PAs put him ahead of guys like Jose Calderon, Jared Dudley, Paul George, Leandro Barbosa, Jameer Nelson, Mike Conley, Anthony Morrow, Chris Paul, and the list goes on and on and on.

This also isn't a case like Rondo where defenders play him differently and his %s raised a bit as a result Iggy has been finding himself in good positions this season and has been taking smarter and more advised jump shots. Sure he isn't getting the kind of attention that say a Carmelo Anthony would get on his jumper but he's still being guarded on that shot and despite of that has shot respectfully this season.

cbreezy34
05-07-2012, 06:50 PM
Why was the bulls thread I posted deleted? There was nothing wrong with it?

pd7631
05-07-2012, 06:57 PM
This myth about Iggy's jumper is one that needs to be abolished

Because this past season he converted on his J at a higher rate than Luol Deng, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Love among others. I think Iggy's struggles with his jump shot are over emphasized and many really don't know how much he has grown this season in that aspect of his game.

In terms of his jump shot efficiency he's better been than Kobe, Westbrook, Monta, Melo, Gay, Rose and Love so I think if Iggy is going seen as having a poor jump shot those other players should be placed under a microscope as well.

All we have to do is compare Iggy's jumper eFG% to other that are regarded by many as having a steady jumper to get an accurate understanding of his jumper.


Player FG%
Andre Iguodala 0.441
Michael Beasley 0.441
Paul Pierce 0.441
Kevin Love 0.430
Kobe Bryant 0.425
R Westbrook 0.420
Derrick Rose 0.415
Tony Parker 0.414
Luol Deng 0.411
Monta Ellis 0.402
Carmelo Anthony 0.400
Rudy Gay 0.399
Dwyane Wade 0.397

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=JUMP_SHOT&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q1=Y&q2=Y&q3=Y&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

He has also been among the better three point shooters in the league this season. His 39.4% on 193 3PAs put him ahead of guys like Jose Calderon, Jared Dudley, Paul George, Leandro Barbosa, Jameer Nelson, Mike Conley, Anthony Morrow, Chris Paul, and the list goes on and on and on.

This also isn't a case like Rondo where defenders play him differently and his %s raised a bit as a result Iggy has been finding himself in good positions this season and has been taking smarter and more advised jump shots. Sure he isn't getting the kind of attention that say a Carmelo Anthony would get on his jumper but he's still being guarded on that shot and despite of that has shot respectfully this season.


He does just fine as a spot up shooter, and he's been more focused on taking those shots this season. When he first broke into the league, he was great at knocking down the corner 3 when AI would penetrate and kick it out to him. He's basically an athletic Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier type of player.

The thing that he was doing post-AI, pre-Doug Collins, was trying to get shots off the dribble. Again, his shot is fine if he's spotting up and getting open shots due to penetration from others (Jrue and ET have helped a lot with this), but off the dribble he's absolutely miserable. That's what separates him from the elite scorers. Iggy just can't create a decent shot for himself.

beasted86
05-07-2012, 07:05 PM
No doubt he should be averaging at least 18 PPG. I blame his work ethic.

He hasn't improved his game at all so teams can probably scout him better now. He skillset basically stagnated 4 years ago and he hasn't added one new dimension since. His jumper is okay, but he has limited range, doesn't move well off the ball, has little to no post game, and is not crafty enough to force driving to the basket and often settles.

Even Luol Deng developed better range on his jumper and 3 ball, and found his way back to being a solid scoring option. Iggy on the other hand has made no improvements.

Swashcuff
05-07-2012, 07:18 PM
No doubt he should be averaging at least 18 PPG. I blame his work ethic.

He hasn't improved his game at all so teams can probably scout him better now. He skillset basically stagnated 4 years ago and he hasn't added one new dimension since. His jumper is okay, but he has limited range, doesn't move well off the ball, has little to no post game, and is not crafty enough to force driving to the basket and often settles.

Even Luol Deng developed better range on his jumper and 3 ball, and found his way back to being a solid scoring option. Iggy on the other hand has made no improvements.

:laugh2:

The classic post of a man who has zero idea of what he's talking about. This man seriously questioned Iggy's work ethic? :laugh2:

Iggy has limited range? I mean seriously dude have you even followed Philly basketball over the past 3 season to attempt to understand what changes Iggy has made to his game and exactly the reason why he has or are you just stating what you think is actually taking place.

ne3xchamps
05-07-2012, 07:28 PM
he's not a franchise player

this.

beasted86
05-07-2012, 08:14 PM
:laugh2:

The classic post of a man who has zero idea of what he's talking about. This man seriously questioned Iggy's work ethic? :laugh2:

Iggy has limited range? I mean seriously dude have you even followed Philly basketball over the past 3 season to attempt to understand what changes Iggy has made to his game and exactly the reason why he has or are you just stating what you think is actually taking place.
I know exactly what I'm talking about. Igoudala has limited range. He cannot hit a 3pter. Averaging his 39% was a fluke this season, just as when Raymond Felton did it a few years ago with Charlotte in his contract year. I see it in his shooting mechanics that he's not going to be a consistent 3PT shooting from this point going forward just as I saw it from Felton. The clear tell-tale sign is his FT shooting that hasn't improved.

And I understand that he's shooting less, but maybe he should be shooting more ad be more aggressive. I mean Philly is one of the weaker offensive teams in the NBA. Instead of the team using their defense to be disruptive and get out in transition the way the HEAT do to create extra possessions instead the 76ers are 25th in the league in pace all while having a starting lineup consisting of mostly 20 year olds. Instead of Igoudala continuing to use his elite athleticism in the half court and transition instead he's allowed his FTAs per game to drop from 7 a game down to 3 a game.

So yes, I understand what's going on. It's Igoudala settling from being a top 5 SF down to fine being "one of the rest", and I do blame his work ethic.

effen5
05-07-2012, 08:18 PM
Hes underrated imo...hes fantastic on defense. I would love him on the Bulls.

SeoulBeatz
05-07-2012, 08:28 PM
No doubt he should be averaging at least 18 PPG. I blame his work ethic.

He hasn't improved his game at all so teams can probably scout him better now. He skillset basically stagnated 4 years ago and he hasn't added one new dimension since. His jumper is okay, but he has limited range, doesn't move well off the ball, has little to no post game, and is not crafty enough to force driving to the basket and often settles.

Even Luol Deng developed better range on his jumper and 3 ball, and found his way back to being a solid scoring option. Iggy on the other hand has made no improvements.

Stopped reading there.

Iggy may come off as many things, but his work ethic is top notch. The guy is a gym rat (just look at those guns) and he spends countless hours working on his jumpshot, it's just not a strong suit, some guys just aren't natural born shooters.

Swashcuff
05-07-2012, 08:53 PM
I know exactly what I'm talking about. Igoudala has limited range. He cannot hit a 3pter. Averaging his 39% was a fluke this season, just as when Raymond Felton did it a few years ago with Charlotte in his contract year. I see it in his shooting mechanics that he's not going to be a consistent 3PT shooting from this point going forward just as I saw it from Felton. The clear tell-tale sign is his FT shooting that hasn't improved.

A fluke? Hands down one of the worst arguments possible when a poster really has nothing left to say but is just trying to be a troll.

I mean seriously first you question Iguodala's work ethic (spent the entire off season working on improving his playmaking, D and jump shot as well as doing his best to ensure that he stayed in top physical shape) now you're calling his improved shot selection (direct reason as to why he's shooting so much better this season JUST like LeBron) a fluke? I mean seriously. That's the best you can do?


And I understand that he's shooting less, but maybe he should be shooting more ad be more aggressive.

Your coach asks you to be less aggressive and focus more on your playmaking and D as that has proven to be the strongest parts of your game and more vital to team success, why go against your coach's wishes when it has for the first time in almost a decade resulted in your team having some sort of success in the post season. If it isn't broke then why should he fix it. He is following his coach's instructions and is being chastised for it?


I mean Philly is one of the weaker offensive teams in the NBA. Instead of the team using their defense to be disruptive and get out in transition the way the HEAT do to create extra possessions instead the 76ers are 25th in the league in pace all while having a starting lineup consisting of mostly 20 year olds. Instead of Igoudala continuing to use his elite athleticism in the half court and transition instead he's allowed his FTAs per game to drop from 7 a game down to 3 a game.

Wait did you just use pace? An ADVANCED STAT :speechless:

Either way again like I said if its not broken then why attempt to fix it? The TEAM is relying on Iggy to do just what he is doing now the onus is on them to rally around him. In case you don't know with his combined play making ability and scoring Iggy accounts for a greater % of his team's offense than any SF not named LeBron, Kevin, Carmelo and Paul. His team's offense is more reliant on him than Gay's and Granger's are theirs.

Philly on a whole doesn't draw much fouls (dead last in the league last season) so its no surprise that Iggy's #s in that regard has fallen. It's just not a great part of our offensive scheme.


So yes, I understand what's going on. It's Igoudala settling from being a top 5 SF down to fine being "one of the rest", and I do blame his work ethic.

No you clearly clearly clearly don't because you have proven that you know NOTHING about Iggy's work ethic (if you did you'd never make such a ridiculous statement. You mentioned nothing about our coach, our system and Iggy's acceptance of his role within that system but continue to spew an argument that holds no grounds. All you're basically doing is saying what you think Iggy should be doing and not what Iggy is best at doing and what makes his team most successful.

NYtilIdie
05-07-2012, 08:53 PM
I know exactly what I'm talking about. Igoudala has limited range. He cannot hit a 3pter. Averaging his 39% was a fluke this season, just as when Raymond Felton did it a few years ago with Charlotte in his contract year. I see it in his shooting mechanics that he's not going to be a consistent 3PT shooting from this point going forward just as I saw it from Felton. The clear tell-tale sign is his FT shooting that hasn't improved.

And I understand that he's shooting less, but maybe he should be shooting more ad be more aggressive. I mean Philly is one of the weaker offensive teams in the NBA. Instead of the team using their defense to be disruptive and get out in transition the way the HEAT do to create extra possessions instead the 76ers are 25th in the league in pace all while having a starting lineup consisting of mostly 20 year olds. Instead of Igoudala continuing to use his elite athleticism in the half court and transition instead he's allowed his FTAs per game to drop from 7 a game down to 3 a game.

So yes, I understand what's going on. It's Igoudala settling from being a top 5 SF down to fine being "one of the rest", and I do blame his work ethic.

No not really. Just stick the Heat forum

bholly
05-07-2012, 09:55 PM
No doubt he should be averaging at least 18 PPG. I blame his work ethic.

He hasn't improved his game at all so teams can probably scout him better now. He skillset basically stagnated 4 years ago and he hasn't added one new dimension since...

Oh, wow. That's some Skip Bayless level analysis right there. This is way wrong. Iggy is a miles and miles better player than he was 4 years ago. It really isn't even close.

beasted86
05-07-2012, 10:57 PM
A fluke? Hands down one of the worst arguments possible when a poster really has nothing left to say but is just trying to be a troll.

You're right, shooting 62% from FT clearly proves his shooting mechanics as a whole have improved.


Wait did you just use pace? An ADVANCED STAT :speechless:
Not really. I thought I went over this with you. An "advanced stat" (as I regard it) is a statistic with a "compensating" (see flawed) formula. I use advanced metrics that don't use formulas.


Philly on a whole doesn't draw much fouls (dead last in the league last season) so its no surprise that Iggy's #s in that regard has fallen. It's just not a great part of our offensive scheme.



No you clearly clearly clearly don't because you have proven that you know NOTHING about Iggy's work ethic (if you did you'd never make such a ridiculous statement. You mentioned nothing about our coach, our system and Iggy's acceptance of his role within that system but continue to spew an argument that holds no grounds. All you're basically doing is saying what you think Iggy should be doing and not what Iggy is best at doing and what makes his team most successful.

Yeah, you are totally right. Iguodala is definitely improving as a player and making his team better. The 76ers who were a 7th/6th seed a couple years ago are an 8th seed. Igoudala has a strong work ethic and has really improved and adapted his game to suit his teammates and whatever the coach wants to run.... moving off of the ball, posting up and shooting especially. If you look at those 3 categories and the improvements he has made from a rookie, and compare it to say Wade, he has made far greater improvements in all 3 of those areas than him.

Swashcuff
05-07-2012, 11:30 PM
You're right, shooting 62% from FT clearly proves his shooting mechanics as a whole have improved.


Not really. I thought I went over this with you. An "advanced stat" (as I regard it) is a statistic with a "compensating" (see flawed) formula. I use advanced metrics that don't use formulas.



Yeah, you are totally right. Iguodala is definitely improving as a player and making his team better. The 76ers who were a 7th/6th seed a couple years ago are an 8th seed. Igoudala has a strong work ethic and has really improved and adapted his game to suit his teammates and whatever the coach wants to run.... moving off of the ball, posting up and shooting especially. If you look at those 3 categories and the improvements he has made from a rookie, and compare it to say Wade, he has made far greater improvements in all 3 of those areas than him.

So now you cheery pick what you can actually attempt to respond to right? :laugh2:

Now you're comparing a fringe All Star in Andre Iguodala to Dwyane Wade one of the greatest shooting guards of all time and hands down a top 50 player all time? Seriously? This is your next argument?

Dude your arguments keep getting worst and worst. You're seriously trying to say that the 76ers who had a .500 record in a weaker eastern conference last season (I honestly don't know what garbage you're talking about a couple seasons ago but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean the 2010-2011 season) who improved leaps and bounds defensively and was more efficient offensively and finished with one of the best differentials in the league and with a much better winning % didn't get better this season?

You're seriously trying to tell me that despite having all these factors in their favour the 76ers didn't improve because they didn't get a better seed?

Dude right now you're trolling if you're going to say that Iggy hasn't developed as an off the ball player (utter rubbish), hasn't developed an effective post game and shooting (again utter rubbish which clearly proves you know nothing about Iggy or Philly basketball) is proof that he doesn't have a good work ethic but yet his entire career every single coach from coach Cheeks, to coach K, to coach Collins and hell even coach Thibs has praised him for his work ethic and his dedication to his craft.

I hold nothing back when I say you sir have NO CLUE whatsoever of what you're talking about and you're doing nothing but getting into a discussion that you are not capable of having.

smood999
05-07-2012, 11:51 PM
This myth about Iggy's jumper is one that needs to be abolished

Because this past season he converted on his J at a higher rate than Luol Deng, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Love among others. I think Iggy's struggles with his jump shot are over emphasized and many really don't know how much he has grown this season in that aspect of his game.

In terms of his jump shot efficiency he's better been than Kobe, Westbrook, Monta, Melo, Gay, Rose and Love so I think if Iggy is going seen as having a poor jump shot those other players should be placed under a microscope as well.

All we have to do is compare Iggy's jumper eFG% to other that are regarded by many as having a steady jumper to get an accurate understanding of his jumper.


Player FG%
Andre Iguodala 0.441
Michael Beasley 0.441
Paul Pierce 0.441
Kevin Love 0.430
Kobe Bryant 0.425
R Westbrook 0.420
Derrick Rose 0.415
Tony Parker 0.414
Luol Deng 0.411
Monta Ellis 0.402
Carmelo Anthony 0.400
Rudy Gay 0.399
Dwyane Wade 0.397

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=JUMP_SHOT&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q1=Y&q2=Y&q3=Y&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

He has also been among the better three point shooters in the league this season. His 39.4% on 193 3PAs put him ahead of guys like Jose Calderon, Jared Dudley, Paul George, Leandro Barbosa, Jameer Nelson, Mike Conley, Anthony Morrow, Chris Paul, and the list goes on and on and on.

This also isn't a case like Rondo where defenders play him differently and his %s raised a bit as a result Iggy has been finding himself in good positions this season and has been taking smarter and more advised jump shots. Sure he isn't getting the kind of attention that say a Carmelo Anthony would get on his jumper but he's still being guarded on that shot and despite of that has shot respectfully this season.

I get that he may be an improved shooter...and I have no issues with him...but this is exactly what is wrong with advanced stats...this does not tell the whole story and you'd be foolish to have Iggy taking a shot before any of these guys...no he's not as bad as Rondo but he is nowhere near the shooter as the guys you've mentioned...

beasted86
05-08-2012, 12:15 AM
So now you cheery pick what you can actually attempt to respond to right? :laugh2:

Now you're comparing a fringe All Star in Andre Iguodala to Dwyane Wade one of the greatest shooting guards of all time and hands down a top 50 player all time? Seriously? This is your next argument?

Dude your arguments keep getting worst and worst. You're seriously trying to say that the 76ers who had a .500 record in a weaker eastern conference last season (I honestly don't know what garbage you're talking about a couple seasons ago but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean the 2010-2011 season) who improved leaps and bounds defensively and was more efficient offensively and finished with one of the best differentials in the league and with a much better winning % didn't get better this season?

You're seriously trying to tell me that despite having all these factors in their favour the 76ers didn't improve because they didn't get a better seed?

Dude right now you're trolling if you're going to say that Iggy hasn't developed as an off the ball player (utter rubbish), hasn't developed an effective post game and shooting (again utter rubbish which clearly proves you know nothing about Iggy or Philly basketball) is proof that he doesn't have a good work ethic but yet his entire career every single coach from coach Cheeks, to coach K, to coach Collins and hell even coach Thibs has praised him for his work ethic and his dedication to his craft.

I hold nothing back when I say you sir have NO CLUE whatsoever of what you're talking about and you're doing nothing but getting into a discussion that you are not capable of having.

Stay true to your elitist attitude, you seem to have your special insider view about how Iguodala is such this good player and keeps improving year after tear, yet the Sixers are shopping him all over and clearly know they aren't getting quite enough from the wings offensively. Sixers have drafted guards/wings in the first round in 3 of the last 4 drafts. Constantly switching up bench parts in Meeks, Nocioni, Kapono, in some attempt to make it work.

Iguodala is a beast defensively, and a quality passer, but offensively he hasn't improved as I see it and the stats don't make a case either. He plateaued 4 years ago and hasn't added to his offensive game since.

willabeast77
05-08-2012, 12:23 AM
Stay true to your elitist attitude, you seem to have your special insider view about how Iguodala is such this good player and keeps improving year after tear, yet the Sixers are shopping him all over and clearly know they aren't getting quite enough from the wings offensively. Sixers have drafted guards/wings in the first round in 3 of the last 4 drafts. Constantly switching up bench parts in Meeks, Nocioni, Kapono, in some attempt to make it work.

Iguodala is a beast defensively, and a quality passer, but offensively he hasn't improved as I see it and the stats don't make a case either. He plateaued 4 years ago and hasn't added to his offensive game since.

I agree with this somewhat, and I have watched Iguodala's career and many Sixers games the past seasons. His defense has improved but his offensive game seems to have stalled. It just doesn't seem like he enjoys much playing in Philadelphia much. I'm sure he would say otherwise. He should be more aggressive and taking more shots. I would have expected him to be a 20 ppg scorer and a deserving allstar. He doesn't deserve all the blame- a lot of it is because of the system the Sixers play and coaching. They play at a too slow pace, they should be a higher paced team- he would excel. I hope he gets traded so he could get to his fullest potential.

Swashcuff
05-08-2012, 12:23 AM
I get that he may be an improved shooter...and I have no issues with him...but this is exactly what is wrong with advanced stats...this does not tell the whole story and you'd be foolish to have Iggy taking a shot before any of these guys...no he's not as bad as Rondo but he is nowhere near the shooter as the guys you've mentioned...

:confused:

So what would you prefer the basic stats because they reflect basically the very same. The basic (FG%) is in the very same link I posted and if you sort them yourself you'd see almost the very same trend.

Also no one came to that conclusion. However what the statistics are basically saying is that Iggy isn't as bad a shooter as some make him out to be and if they really think he's bad well this is the kind of company he keeps. At the end of the day all that matters is how effective your are and this season for anyone who has watched the 76ers play they'd know that Iggy has been quite effective with his jumper as compared to years gone by.

As pd7631 said earlier Iggy is a much better spot up shooter (ala Luol Deng) than he is off the dribble and this season he has come to that understanding and it has been reflecting in his shooting %s. However there are some ignorant posters around who don't even watch understand Iggy's game or Philly's basketball and would tell you that Iggy's improved shooting has nothing to do with his play/decision making but rather its just a fluke.

Melo is seen by most as having one of the best jumpers in the game and leaps and bounds better than LeBron's but in actuality for the past 3+ seasons LeBron has changed that trend.

Swashcuff
05-08-2012, 12:36 AM
Stay true to your elitist attitude, you seem to have your special insider view about how Iguodala is such this good player and keeps improving year after tear, yet the Sixers are shopping him all over and clearly know they aren't getting quite enough from the wings offensively. Sixers have drafted guards/wings in the first round in 3 of the last 4 drafts. Constantly switching up bench parts in Meeks, Nocioni, Kapono, in some attempt to make it work.

Iguodala is a beast defensively, and a quality passer, but offensively he hasn't improved as I see it and the stats don't make a case either. He plateaued 4 years ago and hasn't added to his offensive game since.

Damn right I'll stay true to my attitude :rolleyes:.

I don't have any view on Iggy but the rational one. You were the one who claimed to know everything.

I think I'm done with you however. You continue to make assumptions and completely incorrect statement as if you even have an understanding of the situation when you obviously don't.

You'd never see me coming into a thread about the Heat and arguing with you about a player that you know way more about than myself. I'd actually take heed of your and other posters opinion if I am not fully certain about something. You however refuse to even attempt to get a grasp of the situation but rather spew an opinion that is based on nothing whatsoever.

I mean you make vague statements like our draft choices in an attempt to take a shot at Iguodala without even attempting to assess the situation. FYI in our last 4 drafts our first round picks have been Nikola Vucevic (A CENTER), Evan Turner (A Wing), Jrue Holiday (the best player available and the position we were aiming for the PG) and Marreese Speights another (PF/C). So again your opinion on us really doesn't hold any ground since you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Raph12
05-08-2012, 02:20 AM
Doug Collins has him focused on being a lockdown defender vs #1 scoring option... His defensive numbers were much better under Collins.

Wolfman01
05-08-2012, 03:15 AM
There are many good players around Andre Iguodala now. He doesn't have to do all the scoring anymore. Sixers are a balanced team and for that Andre Iguodala don't really have to worry about doing so much but play team basketball and defense. Philly fans are very strict with sports in their town. If something isn't right or someone isn't playing good they will let that player know for sure. I believe it's time for the 76ers to trade Iggy rather they like or not and give Evan Turner a chance to play more minutes. Iggy has been a 76ers for a long time and hes one of the best defensive defender in the NBA. Where ever he go he will still contribute in a way to help what ever team that he is on.

Unrequited
05-08-2012, 05:39 AM
talk about overpaid, Joe Johnson?

On topic, Andre is known for his defense. His offense is limited, but I would rather have defense than offense. A player with no defense is just an average player, even with all the scoring.

smood999
05-08-2012, 06:05 AM
:confused:

So what would you prefer the basic stats because they reflect basically the very same. The basic (FG%) is in the very same link I posted and if you sort them yourself you'd see almost the very same trend.

Also no one came to that conclusion. However what the statistics are basically saying is that Iggy isn't as bad a shooter as some make him out to be and if they really think he's bad well this is the kind of company he keeps. At the end of the day all that matters is how effective your are and this season for anyone who has watched the 76ers play they'd know that Iggy has been quite effective with his jumper as compared to years gone by.

As pd7631 said earlier Iggy is a much better spot up shooter (ala Luol Deng) than he is off the dribble and this season he has come to that understanding and it has been reflecting in his shooting %s. However there are some ignorant posters around who don't even watch understand Iggy's game or Philly's basketball and would tell you that Iggy's improved shooting has nothing to do with his play/decision making but rather its just a fluke.

Melo is seen by most as having one of the best jumpers in the game and leaps and bounds better than LeBron's but in actuality for the past 3+ seasons LeBron has changed that trend.

Again, I have no issue with Iggy...I even said his jumper may be improved...and no I wouldn't prefer just to use basic stats...my point is stats in general don't tell the whole story...the way you listed everything, you made it seem that he was in the company of those guys as far as shooting the ball, but he's not...

PhillyStandUp
05-08-2012, 09:06 AM
^oh you know this as a fact? what else does your magic 8 ball full of BS say?

Fact? No.. But all indications suggest that he'll get traded. From the numerous reports from ESPN"s Chris Broussard to the actually owner tweeting changes will be made. But if you need a magic 8 ball to get your information or do the thinking for you, hit me up. I have two for you.