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View Full Version : How much should Thibs be blamed for the Bulls lose to the 76ers?



kjoke
05-04-2012, 11:00 PM
If you guys missed it, he stuck with a lineup of Boozer, Rip, JLIII, Deng and Asik, even though no offense was being generated. He had Taj, Watson, and Korver out for the most part, even though they were capable of playing

I'm not trying to bait, instead, I kinda want to know if Thibs made the right call.

ManRam
05-04-2012, 11:05 PM
Well, we'll see. I didn't think he did the right thing either. He generally plays the hot hands...and he has a bit of a luxury because that's a deep team.

Not gonna blame him entirely for losing this, but yeah...I didn't think he was putting the right guys in there. They weren't scoring, for ****. Hindsight is 20/20, though.

Korver was awful tonight...so can't fault Thibs for benching him. Watson didn't score a point either, not that JLIII was terribly efficient. Taj probably should have been in there over Asik....

IDK. Plenty of blame to go around.

nitric
05-04-2012, 11:07 PM
Thibs is a product of Rose on the offensive end.

Slug3
05-04-2012, 11:07 PM
Everyone knows the playoffs are a different game then the regular season. He just needs to figure out how his rotations need to be without his best player. But the bulls only gave up 79 points, the D is still there.

Also, I know Noah is not an offensive center but it does hurt losing him.

Catfish1314
05-04-2012, 11:10 PM
I would have gone with Gibson over Asik (and Thibs usually does when the opponent is leading late), but I don't see an issue with having any of the rest of those guys on the floor. JLIII had hit some big shots, Watson is very capable as a scorer despite the awful game he was having, and the same goes for Rip, Deng, and Boozer.

The Bulls don't have anyone on the roster outside of Rose who can consistently break down a defense and score off the bounce. The combination of his absence and the heightened intensity of competition in postseason play is going to result in some stagnation in the offense. It's only going to get worse unless someone steps up, because the Sixers probably smell blood now.

D1JM
05-04-2012, 11:18 PM
8 minutes without making a shoT :mad:

mustaine
05-04-2012, 11:19 PM
Everyone knows the playoffs are a different game then the regular season. He just needs to figure out how his rotations need to be without his best player. But the bulls only gave up 79 points, the D is still there.

Also, I know Noah is not an offensive center but it does hurt losing him.

Maybe not when it comes to scoring consistently but his passing is excellent and really important to the ball movement. If he's out, the Bulls are in serious trouble (if they aren't already).

Slug3
05-04-2012, 11:25 PM
Maybe not when it comes to scoring consistently but his passing is excellent and really important to the ball movement. If he's out, the Bulls are in serious trouble (if they aren't already).

I actually meant scoring wise.... he is a very good passer and a great offensive re bounder.

northsider
05-04-2012, 11:28 PM
I just wanted to know where in gods name Taj was???

This was the most appalling part of the loss. Taj was killing it and then he was pulled. I mean Lucas is one thing but, at least put the guy out there that was willing to give you that much more. He was the reason we went up big and then bam like a fart he got pulled.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-04-2012, 11:28 PM
I blame him for keeping Rose and other starters in with 82 seconds left in game 1.

Every failure that happened after is just a by-product of the Rose incident.

justinnum1
05-04-2012, 11:35 PM
A lot. I just don think he knows how to make adjustments. He was horrible in the ECF last year. He has an amazing defensive system and he gets his guys to play hard, thats admirable. But as for adjustments, thibs has a long ways to go.

mustaine
05-04-2012, 11:38 PM
I actually meant scoring wise.... he is a very good passer and a great offensive re bounder.

Fair enough, he's a gritty guy and gets most of his points from rebounds and hustle. Without him, the Bulls will get even uglier.

nitric
05-04-2012, 11:39 PM
A lot. I just don think he knows how to make adjustments. He was horrible in the ECF last year. He has an amazing defensive system and he gets his guys to play hard, thats admirable. But as for adjustments, thibs has a long ways to go.

100% agreed. Thibs is clueless on the substitution end and overplays his players. I still can't believe he put Noah back in the game after he sprained his ankle, what a joke.

ManRam
05-04-2012, 11:42 PM
Thibs' substitutions are iffy at times...but he's still an absolutely other-worldly coach.

Too many players were cold tonight. Credit Philly's defense, which was, for most the year, absolutely elite. The only thing I can blame him for tonight is not putting Gibson in there. Besides that, what more do you want. He played the hot hands :shrug:

torocan
05-04-2012, 11:45 PM
Personally I prefer to give Doug Colllins credit.

He's one heck of a coach.

That and they just happen to match up very well against the Bulls.

Slug3
05-04-2012, 11:50 PM
Personally I prefer to give Doug Colllins credit.

He's one heck of a coach.

That and they just happen to match up very well against the Bulls.

I am sure it helps with Noah and Rose going down. A top center and one of THE best players in the game.

bholly
05-04-2012, 11:52 PM
Personally I prefer to give Doug Colllins credit.

He's one heck of a coach.

That and they just happen to match up very well against the Bulls.

Honestly, the way he's done things this playoffs has been a real surprise. He's been much worse most of the year. A lot of Philly fans are ready to be done with him. His play calling, especially late, has been awful all year (it's pretty much Lou Will hero ball for the last minute of every quarter) which shows up in our abysmal record in close games, and he's refused to put the ball in Evan's hands and use him and Jrue as the closers.
The way he's coached the 2nd and 3rd games of this series - putting faith in ET and putting the ball in their hands, benching Jodie Meeks, and closing tonight with ET and Jrue attacking the rim instead of Lou settling for long jumpers - is a real revelation and a huge turnaround from him. I'm giving him credit for it, for sure, but if he had've made those simple changes earlier in the year we'd have been a much better team.
Still, better way late than never.

ChicagoFan4Eva
05-04-2012, 11:52 PM
Not his fault bulls couldn't score down the stretch.. it was expected since Rose is injured

Bullsfan22
05-05-2012, 12:11 AM
Thibs is a product of Rose on the offensive end.

Basically. I respect Thibs a lot, he's a defensive guru and one hell of a coach but right now he's getting out coached by Collins. He literally makes no offensive adjustments and doesn't put nearly the amount of effort in on the offensive side of the ball. The fact that he kept John Lucas in the game was beyond me and some of the Bulls beat reporters during the game. When it's all said and done it's up to the players.

kozelkid
05-05-2012, 12:19 AM
Personally I prefer to give Doug Colllins credit.

He's one heck of a coach.

That and they just happen to match up very well against the Bulls.

Pretty much. I don't know why people are so shocked about this. Philly has been an absolute thorn for the Bulls. Couple that with a Roseless Bulls team that clearly appears lost without him now that they know he's gone for good, and bam.


I blame him for keeping Rose and other starters in with 82 seconds left in game 1.

Every failure that happened after is just a by-product of the Rose incident.

I don't blame him one bit for that as I said before. However, everything that has followed is definitely a by-product of losing Rose.

redwhitenblue
05-05-2012, 12:52 AM
Thibs had a lot of very questionable calls in this game. For one of the first times all year the starters (save CJ Watson) played the entire first quarter AND started and played a good chunk of the 2nd quarter before ever receiving rest. That doesn't make sense to do on a deep team. Then the bench came in and played well, started pulling away and he brought back in some of the starters that weren't shooting great.

Overall the last two games have brought out how poorly Thibs offensive system is and how desperate the Bulls will be in the offseason to bring in a different backup PG (Hinrich?) to play until Rose is ready. Watson is ice cold and Lucas dribbles way too deep into the playclock every possession.

CTCUBBIES
05-05-2012, 01:09 AM
The Bulls missed 9 free throws (60%) and turned it over 15 times. They got 5 combined points from 2 starters (Deng and Watson) all while not having Rose and Noah down the stretch. If anything it's a testament to Thibs that this game was even close because they play so damn hard for him.

No coach could overcome the above-mentioned stats with "better rotations." For those calling for Watson and Korver to be substitued in have you been watching the series at all? Those two were a combined 0-9 with ZERO points. How exactly does that help your offense? Do people watch the game or just post after its over?

MrfadeawayJB
05-05-2012, 01:18 AM
I dont think Thibs will get any blame...no D-Rose in the playoffs = trouble

D1JM
05-05-2012, 01:26 AM
watson is still struggling with his ankle apparently. bulls have not been able to stay healthy this season and they look avg without rose.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-05-2012, 01:30 AM
I don't blame him one bit for that as I said before. However, everything that has followed is definitely a by-product of losing Rose.

Ehhh. Majority would say it's a bad idea to keep in your starters when the game is out of reach. 82 seconds and no one on their team was an outside scoring threat(shot 1-9 from 3 the whole game) leaves a pinsize hole chance of a comeback.

I mean I'd say keep some starters on but not your superstar who was already injured and sat out so many games for just to save for the playoffs. Why save him if he meant to play him in Brian Scalabrine time?

kozelkid
05-05-2012, 01:33 AM
Ehhh. Majority would say it's a bad idea to keep in your starters when the game is out of reach. 82 seconds and no one on their team was an outside scoring threat(shot 1-9 from 3 the whole game).

I'd say keep some starters on but not your superstar who was already injured and sat out so many games for just to save for the playoffs. Why save him if he meant to play him in Brian Scalabrine time?

We have blew games before being up 15 with 2-3 minutes to go.

If you are going to be constantly paranoid about a player getting injured, especially with such limited time left, then you won't get far in the NBA. This is the playoffs. There's no saving minutes anymore. Either your stars play the games or they don't. There's no inbetween.

And no, majority don't disagree. Only reporters that need a story. Any practical coach would have done the same. Thibs came from the school of coaching of JVG, who in turn came from the school of coaching of Pat Riley. In other words, most coaches currently employed in the NBA, are probably linked to that school of coaching. And as far as being a tough coach, Thibs has learned almost EVERYTHING from JVG and ALWAYS asks for his advice.

Bottomline, being up 12 with over a minute to go is in NO WAY out of reach. None. I have never seen a coach put away his starters in a PLAYOFF game (let alone stars), being only up 12.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-05-2012, 01:42 AM
We have blew games before being up 15 with 2-3 minutes to go.

If you are going to be constantly paranoid about a player getting injured, especially with such limited time left, then you won't get far in the NBA. This is the playoffs. There's no saving minutes anymore. Either your stars play the games or they don't. There's no inbetween.

And no, majority don't disagree. Only reporters that need a story. Any practical coach would have done the same. Thibs came from the school of coaching of JVG, who in turn came from the school of coaching of Pat Riley. In other words, most coaches currently employed in the NBA, are probably linked to that school of coaching. And as far as being a tough coach, Thibs has learned almost EVERYTHING from JVG and ALWAYS asks for his advice.

It's pretty simple to be honest. Play a guy or don't play a guy in a game out of reach. If you want to play him, fine. It's just not the most logical thing when the game is out of reach and the win is almost guaranteed. The chance of a comeback was there. Probability was very small.

I've seen so many times post saying "Bulls were still a top team without Rose" or "Bulls went 18-9 without Rose". You mean to tell me a lineup of the rest of the starters and John Lucas can have a .666 winning percentage in the regular season with 48 mins(or more in case of OT) each game yet they can't hold a 12 point lead with 82 seconds to go?

Either way, you were going to take a chance. Either Rose or other main players got hurt or the comeback was going to happen. Thibs ended up taking the riskier one.

kozelkid
05-05-2012, 01:49 AM
It's pretty simple to be honest. Play a guy or don't play a guy in a game out of reach. If you want to play him, fine. It's just not the most logical thing when the game is out of reach and the win is almost guaranteed. The chance of a comeback was there. Probability was very small.

Probability of a comeback being only up 12 is much higher than a player tearing his ACL. If a torn ACL is a concern, then you don't play the player AT ALL.


I've seen so many times post saying "Bulls were still a top team without Rose" or "Bulls went 18-9 without Rose". You mean to tell me a lineup of the rest of the starters and John Lucas can have a .666 winning percentage in the regular season with 48 mins(or more in case of OT) each game yet they can't hold a 12 point lead with 82 seconds to go?

Doesn't matter. You play with your best lineup.

99 times out of 100, nothing happens. The hundredth time, you lose. Even with a lineup that had a .666 winning percentage.


Either way, you were going to take a chance. Either Rose or other main players got hurt or the comeback was going to happen. Thibs ended up taking the riskier one.


You have no evidence to suggest that playing Rose is a riskier option than blowing the lead.

Just like you don't have evidence to suggest that most coaches would have done different. In fact, from all the coaches (or ex-coaches) I've heard discuss this matter (like Collins and JVG), sided with Thibs.

Maybe you would have done it differently. Personally, I don't believe it. In the heat of the moment, watching your team unable to put away that Sixers team throughout that game, makes me doubt that any coach would have been willing to take out Rose.

I mean what else are you gonna do if you are paranoid about Rose getting injured? Are you gonna wrap him in saran wrap wherever he goes in fear that he trips awkwardly?

Hell, only two days ago, Suggs tore his ACL playing ****ing basketball.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-05-2012, 02:05 AM
Probability of a comeback being only up 12 is much higher than a player tearing his ACL. If a torn ACL is a concern, then you don't play the player AT ALL.

Clearly that's not the same situation or what I meant. :rolleyes: Obviously if you are down and you can still make a comeback, then you play him. Or if it's a close game with a min left.

But your player was hurt, play him and it's likely to aggravate an injury. I'm not just talking about a torn ACL. It's about getting even more hurt in general. It just so happens that it was a torn ACL. It could even have been just a tweaked ankle that would reduce his production but allow him to play and I would say the exact same thing.



Doesn't matter. You play with your best lineup.

99 times out of 100, nothing happens. The hundredth time, you lose. Even with a lineup that had a .666 winning percentage.


Well now you'll have to rely on that .666 win% team. Taking a risk that had a more drastic effect in the future isn't the greatest thing.



You have no evidence to suggest that playing Rose is a riskier option than blowing the lead.

Just like you don't have evidence to suggest that most coaches would have done different. In fact, from all the coaches (or ex-coaches) I've heard discuss this matter (like Collins and JVG), sided with Thibs.

Blowing a lead was pretty unlikely. The 76ers scored 12 points from 4:07 mins left to 1:34 mins left. It's not as if they were on a big run or something. Granted so is a torn ACL.

But with both unlikely scenarios, which one do you rather risk when a blown lead doesn't affect the outcome of the following games while a Rose injury affects the rest of the playoffs?

Never did I say coaches would have done different. I said majority, and most people I've talked to (which means I used a sample size to predict the majority) highly favoured sitting him over playing him in a semi blowout game.


Either way, we'll never agree. My case is you sit a player when a comeback was highly improbable. Your case is wanting to win a game with the best player. You want to play him for security, fine. That's what Thibs did and a torn ACL is the result.


Though I would like to note that as soon as Rose went out, the Bulls actually matched the same amount of points as the 76ers. At least for next season, we'll know that the Bulls roster minus Rose can hold their own against a 76ers team with 82 seconds left.

DaBUU
05-05-2012, 02:08 AM
100% agreed. Thibs is clueless on the substitution end and overplays his players. I still can't believe he put Noah back in the game after he sprained his ankle, what a joke.

not just that he brought him back in, there was a series when the Bulls had the ball and it was obvious he couldn't move, he should of called a time out. He didnt and Jo had to gimp back to the other end on D and then tried blocking a shot, which looked like it made the ankle worse.

Silent
05-05-2012, 02:14 AM
Personally I prefer to give Doug Colllins credit.

He's one heck of a coach.

That and they just happen to match up very well against the Bulls.

Are u serious lol Where missing the Mvp And Noah im sure alot of teams would match up good Against us

kozelkid
05-05-2012, 02:16 AM
Clearly that's not the same situation or what I meant. :rolleyes: Obviously if you are down and you can still make a comeback, then you play him. Or if it's a close game with a min left.

But your player was hurt, play him and it's likely to aggravate an injury. I'm not just talking about a torn ACL. It's about getting even more hurt in general. It just so happens that it was a torn ACL. It could even have been just a tweaked ankle that would reduce his production but allow him to play and I would say the exact same thing.

No he wasn't. Now you are just making stuff up. He was reported as completely healthy, as such, Thibs did the right thing.

The ACL injury did not happen cause Rose had previous injury. This is no just me saying that, this is a doctor, Doctor Michael Kaplan, saying that. It was a fluke.

So stop playing the whole hindsight 20-20 routine. :rolleyes:


Well now you'll have to rely on that .666 win% team. Taking a risk that had a more drastic effect in the future isn't the greatest thing.

It's not a risk that should have ANY reason of being in the coach's mind in the first place. Rose was medically cleared and ACL injuries can happen at ANY moment.


Blowing a lead was pretty unlikely. The 76ers scored 12 points from 4:07 mins left to 1:34 mins left. It's not as if they were on a big run or something. Granted so is a torn ACL.

And yet, we could have said the same thing today when Sixers struggled offensively and yet they came in the fourth and scored 28. Or the previous game where they shot over 60%.


But with both unlikely scenarios, which one do you rather risk when a blown lead doesn't affect the outcome of the following games while a Rose injury affects the rest of the playoffs?

Are you serious?

Let me repeat this for you, ROSE WAS REPORTED AS HEALTHY, i.e. GOOD TO GO.

Again, hindsight is an awesome luxury.


Never did I say coaches would have done different. I said majority, and most people I've talked to (which means I used a sample size to predict the majority) highly favoured sitting him over playing him in a semi blowout game.

I'm sure most people will also tell you that they'd pick Tom Brady well before the 199th pick. Once again, isn't hindsight an awesome tool?



Either way, we'll never agree. My case is you sit a player when a comeback was highly improbable. Your case is wanting to win a game with the best player. You want to play him for security, fine. That's what Thibs did and a torn ACL is the result.

And I'm calling you out as someone who is using hindsight as a crutch. Especially given that Rose was cleared by the medical staff as 100% healthy.


Though I would like to note that as soon as Rose went out, the Bulls actually matched the same amount of points as the 76ers. At least for next season, we'll know that the Bulls roster minus Rose can hold their own against a 76ers team with 82 seconds left.

Right, because 82 seconds is an awesome sample size. Whereas, Bulls DIDN'T match Philly for the last 2 games.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-05-2012, 02:48 AM
No he wasn't. Now you are just making stuff up. He was reported as completely healthy, as such, Thibs did the right thing.

The ACL injury did not happen cause Rose had previous injury. This is no just me saying that, this is a doctor, Doctor Michael Kaplan, saying that. It was a fluke.

So stop playing the whole hindsight 20-20 routine. :rolleyes:

It's not a risk that should have ANY reason of being in the coach's mind in the first place. Rose was medically cleared and ACL injuries can happen at ANY moment.

And yet, we could have said the same thing today when Sixers struggled offensively and yet they came in the fourth and scored 28. Or the previous game where they shot over 60%.

Are you serious?

Let me repeat this for you, ROSE WAS REPORTED AS HEALTHY, i.e. GOOD TO GO.

Again, hindsight is an awesome luxury.

I'm sure most people will also tell you that they'd pick Tom Brady well before the 199th pick. Once again, isn't hindsight an awesome tool?

And I'm calling you out as someone who is using hindsight as a crutch. Especially given that Rose was cleared by the medical staff as 100% healthy.

Right, because 82 seconds is an awesome sample size. Whereas, Bulls DIDN'T match Philly for the last 2 games.

A man who was injured for like a 3rd of the year was magically 100% when commentators, your own fans, analyst said Rose wasn't 100%?

And don't pull that ******** "hindsight" crap and pin it in this situation. It's logical to know you're more likely to get hurt if you've already been hurt before. Granted the previous injuries had nothing to do with his torn ACL, but he could have easily aggravated his groin injury.

I love how you bring up all those irrelevant situations though. :rolleyes:

Also, I guess the 28 points the 76ers scored the WHOLE quarter is the same as the 82 seconds when the Bulls had most of the momentum.

Like I said. I wouldn't have played him because it was more logical for me to sit out a player when a game was practically out of reach. You would have played him regardless because you wanted the feeling of more security of the win. There's no point in continuing this. Everything happened already. Rose is out and Bulls are likely done for the year. Too bad because both a game 1 win and Rose playing for game 2 could have easily been possible.


I'll end on this. I asked myself why an injured(or by your terms, a "healthy") Rose was playing in a blowout game with 4 mins left. You act as if I only had this opinion and thought after the situation already occurred. Clearly not the case. I was already cautious of a non 100% Rose on the floor of a blowout game. If anything, the injury backed up my suspicion instead of what you make it out to be as me only having this opinion after the fact.

5ass
05-05-2012, 02:49 AM
everybody makes mistakes sometimes.

kozelkid
05-05-2012, 02:59 AM
A man who was injured for like a 3rd of the year was magically 100% when commentators, your own fans, analyst said Rose wasn't 100%?

I didn't say he was 100%. I said he was healthy, good to go. Almost every player has nicks and bruises.

And when you finish playing doctor and actually learned more about the medical field or even basic physiology, you would understand that not every injury can be reaggravated or is directly correlated to minutes played.

There are injuries that are, like his groin injury. But that injury was way back when and has not been an injury for awhile now.


And don't pull that ******** "hindsight" crap and pin it in this situation. It's logical to know you're more likely to get hurt if you've already been hurt before. Granted the previous injuries had nothing to do with his torn ACL, but he could have easily aggravated his groin injury.

No he couldn't have. The groin injury had long since healed. Again, stop playing doctor. Not every injury can get reaggravated. When a player has said injuries, THEN a coach is advised to carefully allocate them injuries. When Rose had that groin injury, he was given less minutes when he first returned. When Rip had a groin injury, he also couldn't get more than 24 mpg for his first 20 games or so.

See, this is where you, as an outsider, who hasn't followed this team nearly everyday, nor are you a doctor, have any clue what you are talking about.


Also, I guess the 28 points the 76ers scored the WHOLE quarter is the same as the 82 seconds when the Bulls have most of the momentum.

What momentum? We went from up nearly 20 to only up 12. Our guys couldn't maintain the lead.


Like I said. I wouldn't have played him because it was more logical for me to sit out a player when a game was practically out of reach. You would have played him regardless because you wanted the feeling of more security of the win. There's no point in continuing this. Everything happened already. Rose is out and Bulls are likely done for the year. Too bad because both a game 1 win and Rose playing for game 2 could have easily been possible.

Sure, and hindsight is 20-20.

If you actually knew Rose's injury report, i.e. no ailing injuries that required limited PT, then you wouldn't need to resort to carefully watching how many minutes Rose is playing.


I'll end on this. I asked myself why an injured(or by your terms, a "healthy") Rose was playing in a blowout game with 4 mins left. You act as if I only had this opinion and thought after the situation already occurred. Clearly not the case. I was already cautious of a non 100% Rose on the floor of a blowout game. If anything, the injury backed up my suspicion instead of what you make it out to be as me only having this opinion after the fact.

Even if you claim that to be the case, then I can just as well say that your opinion is of someone who has no idea what Rose's medical report is. Let me say this once again, Rose was not reported with ANY lingering injuries capable of getting reaggravated due to extra playing time. In other words, being worried that he could injury himself would be dumb. You might as well, have the same concern with Noah, Boozer, Deng, Rip, Watson, etc. All of them are injury prone.

therealwd27
05-05-2012, 03:05 AM
He ****ed up tonight putting Noah back in...he shouldnt have put him back in.

The Rose thing was 50/50..He also is questionable and stubborn with his rotation but most coaches are

But the game tonight with Noah that was a HUGE mistake

Raps18-19 Champ
05-05-2012, 03:06 AM
Like I said. It was either play Rose or not. 12 points with 82 seconds. If you wanna play him, fine. I surely wouldn't risk my star player a bruise when a win is practically guaranteed.

Though you could clearly post without the blatant what can be labelled as unnecessary shots toward me with the "stop playing doctor" **** or the irrelevant hindsight crap. :rolleyes:

kozelkid
05-05-2012, 03:10 AM
In the end of the day, I'm not saying that Rose was 100%. Far from it. However, as I mentioned, not EVERY injury means it will be reaggravated. For instance, Deng completely tore a ligament in his wrist, however, his injury cannot get any worse. It can get more painful in some days, but not worse.

Same with Rose and his ankle injury when he was cleared to play. PT wasn't gonna make him worse. Of course, he wasn't going to be his explosive self the first few weeks, maybe even months. But it had no reason to get worse, barring a totally unrelated injury.

kozelkid
05-05-2012, 03:12 AM
Like I said. It was either play Rose or not. 12 points with 82 seconds. If you wanna play him, fine. I surely wouldn't risk my star player a bruise when a win is practically guaranteed.

Though you could clearly post without the blatant what can be labelled as unnecessary shots toward me with the "stop playing doctor" **** or the irrelevant hindsight crap. :rolleyes:

Awesome. You are really saving that player from that 1-2% of PT. Not to mention, showing your other players that said player is above them. Oh, AND the possibility of blowing a lead every so often.

Bulls_fan90
05-05-2012, 03:16 AM
How much can he do when our best two players are injured and the third is playing with torn ligaments in his wrist?

Don't blame Thibs, injuries have destroyed this team.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-05-2012, 03:25 AM
Awesome. You are really saving that player from that 1-2% of PT. Not to mention, showing your other players that said player is above them. Oh, AND the possibility of blowing a lead every so often.

Could have saved Rose. From my understanding, coaches take out players during garbage time for 2 reasons: To rest them and to prevent a freak accident from happening. At least that's how Coach Pop described it.

Don't the other players already know that Rose is thought of as more highly than them? Or is John Lucas the Turd like some call him of equal value to Rose?

Also, Bulls were the best team in the East for the regular season. Looks at it from different angles. Bulls weren't that big on an offensive threat that game and time was not on their side. It's not as if there was a T-Mac or Reggie Miller pulling a bunch of points in a short amount of time.

therealwd27
05-05-2012, 03:25 AM
How much can he do when our best two players are injured and the third is playing with torn ligaments in his wrist?

Don't blame Thibs, injuries have destroyed this team.

No Need to risk it tonight with Noah he clearly was hurt..why put him back in???:confused:

kozelkid
05-05-2012, 03:34 AM
Could have saved Rose. From my understanding, coaches take out players during garbage time for 2 reasons: To rest them and to prevent a freak accident from happening. At least that's how Coach Pop described it.

Being up 12 with over a minute to go is not garbage time, especially in a playoff game. Moreover, if you believe that a comeback couldn't happen in 86 seconds of time remaining, why should an injury happen? And 86 seconds of rest is nothing so let's clear that reasoning away, immediately.


Don't the other players already know that Rose is thought of as more highly than them?

Sure, but the players respect Rose and Thibs more for the fact that Rose is treated like another guy.


Also, Bulls were the best team in the East for the regular season. Looks at it from different angles. Bulls weren't that big on an offensive threat that game and time was not on their side. It's not as if there was a T-Mac or Reggie Miller pulling a bunch of points in a short amount of time.

So what?

They still have enough scorers who could get hot and change the dynamics of the game in Jrue Holiday, Jodie Meeks and Lou Williams.

More than anything, no coach pulls his starters when there's barely over a minute to go because a freak injury in such limited time is considered inconceivable and not something worth being concerned about in the first place.

And by the way, if I recall correctly, Bulls were up nearly 20. Rose got pulled out of the game. The remaining players couldn't maintain the lead and Thibs put Rose back in when the lead went down to 12. Given that scenario, can you blame Thibs for putting in his best players when the others couldn't hold a 20 point lead? I can't. Previous injuries should have no bearing in this given that the injuries Rose had had nothing to do with being reaggravated due to playing time. And if you want to make the claim that Rose being injury prone is enough reason, then again, you might as well pull all the other injury prone players on this roster like Noah, Boozer, Deng, etc.

Even coaches, as willing to save their players like Doc, has played KG over 40mpg this postseason while well aware that KG is injury prone.

Bulls_fan90
05-05-2012, 03:36 AM
No Need to risk it tonight with Noah he clearly was hurt..why put him back in???:confused:

The doctors examined Noah and said no further damage could be done by playing on. Add to that Noah asked Thibs to put him back on because he felt good to go.


K.C Johnson ‏ @KCJHoop
Thibs on Noah: "He felt like he could go. Once we saw he was having a hard time moving, that was it." #Bulls

torocan
05-05-2012, 03:37 AM
Are u serious lol Where missing the Mvp And Noah im sure alot of teams would match up good Against us

Look up Doug Collins' record some time. He's no joke of a coach.

And yes, the 76ers match up well against the Bulls. They weren't favorites against the Bulls with Rose in, but they sure matched up better against the Bulls than against Miami, with or without Rose.

If I recall, this is the SAME Chicago team that bulls fans called "Elite", with or without Rose.

As for Noah, he was there for game 2 (blown out), and when he went down in game three, it was a 3 point game.

Did we mention that Philadelphia is the #8 seed? They're not exactly a "loaded" team...

therealwd27
05-05-2012, 03:55 AM
The doctors examined Noah and said no further damage could be done by playing on. Add to that Noah asked Thibs to put him back on because he felt good to go.

lol no further damage? is that a joke? what kind of doctor would say "no further damage can be done?


And ofcourse a player is going to say he can still play its up to the COACH to tell him to sit his *** down. You dont put him back in, not at all. You saw how he was when he added weight to it? what did they think he was going to hop on 1 foot and play? its common sense come on

"Pride goeth before a fall"

Bulls_fan90
05-05-2012, 03:59 AM
lol no further damage? is that a joke? what kind of doctor would say "no further damage can be done?


And ofcourse a player is going to say he can still play its up to the COACH to tell him to sit his *** down. You dont put him back in, not at all. You saw how he was when he added weight to it? what did they think he was going to hop on 1 foot and play? its common sense come on

"Pride goeth before a fall"

I see you're a little slow. Try watching the game, it was announced during it.

:laugh: Can't believe I wasted my time with a troll.

Wade>You
05-05-2012, 04:35 AM
Just got home (hours after the game) and can't believe the Bulls lost. I was listening to the game when the Bulls held a +10pt lead starting the 4th then turned it off cuz I just figured they'd win it. Wtf happened? I'm pretty drunk so this is shocking to me that the Bulls lost. Bulls appeared to play well statistically.

:drunk:

Blech!!!

therealwd27
05-05-2012, 11:27 AM
I see you're a little slow. Try watching the game, it was announced during it.

:laugh: Can't believe I wasted my time with a troll.

This is coming from someone who has a sig of a baby t-rex and ben stiller's lost son:facepalm:

PhillyFaninLA
05-05-2012, 11:37 AM
Why is no one giving the Sixers credit for taking advantage of Rose's injury.

Holiday, Turner, and Hawes have stepped up.

All I read is excuses from Bulls fans and no real credit for the Sixers stepping up. The Sixers are better then the Bulls without Rose.

Green_Monster
05-05-2012, 11:44 AM
The Bulls just don't really have a good #2 option after Rose. In the offseason, they have to get a better SG or PF.

torocan
05-05-2012, 12:09 PM
Give the 76ers and Collins some credit.

The lack of Rose does have an impact, but let's not forget that the 76ers DID take a win off the Bulls when Rose was playing (98-82, Feb 1). And they took that win pretty much the SAME way they're doing it now.

The 76ers have a speedy, athletic line up, and Collins knows how to maximise them against the Bulls. He has them pushing the pace to wear down the Chicago bigs, and running fast transitions up and down the floor to make it difficult for them to set their defense, and has them getting back on defense VERY quickly.

Collins also has the 76ers playing excellent rotation defense. The speed that they're transitioning from double team to double team, and double team to close outs is very impressive.

Evan Turner was dead on. The 76ers and Collins match up better against Chicago than against Miami.

kdspurman
05-05-2012, 12:16 PM
Probably should not have allowed him back in there. At worst you lose him last night, but have a better chance at having him in Game 4.

Holydiver
05-05-2012, 12:26 PM
the way he handled Noah last night was appalling.

TheWhiteMamba
05-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Why is no one giving the Sixers credit for taking advantage of Rose's injury.

Holiday, Turner, and Hawes have stepped up.

All I read is excuses from Bulls fans and no real credit for the Sixers stepping up. The Sixers are better then the Bulls without Rose.

I gave Philly a lot of credit for the beating they gave the Bulls in game 2. However game 3 Philly played about as bad as anyone can possibly play. They shot what like 32% or something like that? I know the Bulls werent much better but they sure as hell choked that game away.

DRose01
05-05-2012, 12:51 PM
without Rose and now Noah, and a one handed Deng who has been awful thus far in the playoffs, this team is not much more than a low seeded team anyway so they go out now or later it doesnt really matter now. I wouldnt consider a playoff loss an upset now. the fact the sixers were even down and fighting back at home against a very shorthanded team with limited options is not good for them gonig forward. but bulls need to address scoring this offseason. a low post scorer and a wing player.

BearCubBull22
05-05-2012, 12:52 PM
Give Collins and Philly some credit. The Sixers had to feel coming into the series that either Rose vs Holiday or Rose vs Turner was going to be a match up they would lose and lose big. However, with Rose out, they have been quick to make some adjustments to exploit the fact that Watson is clearly struggling/not healthy and Lucas is clearly overmatched, turning those matchups into huge wins.

As far as blaming Thibs...putting Noah back in was probably a mistake but he's trying to win the game. It depends on what the training staff told him about the severity of the injury and the potential for making it worse.

Blaming Thibs for the Rose injury is ridiculous. Coaches pull players out for 3 reasons.
1) for rest. I dont think anyone can argue that an extra 86 secs of rest would have made a difference in Rose's effectiveness.
2) a player has a nagging injury and is at risk of reaggravating it. This isn't related to an old injury. It was new.
3) the game is overly physical/cheap shots are being delivered which increases the chance of injury. Clearly there was none of this going on.

The fact is, while the chances of the Bulls blowing that lead were small, the chances of Rose tearing his ACL were much smaller. I believe there were 2-3 ACL tears in the NBA coming into the playoffs. How many times did teams blow 12 point leads late in games? I would guess more than 2-3. The injury is terrible but it was a fluke. It could have just as easily have happened on the opening tip.

DRose01
05-05-2012, 12:53 PM
and a pass first pg to backup rose. all 3 of our PGS are scorers first and i've always hated cj.

therealwd27
05-05-2012, 01:06 PM
No need to put Noah back in the game point blank. He was clearly hurt and why put a player in whos not even 75%? he could barely walk

torocan
05-05-2012, 01:11 PM
No need to put Noah back in the game point blank. He was clearly hurt and why put a player in whos not even 75%? he could barely walk

I understand why he put him back in the first time (to take the FT's). Noah probably was begging and telling Thibs he was fine.

After he came off the 2nd time, there's NO way he should have gone back into the game.

Double stupidity there, on the part of Noah and Thibs.

thekmp211
05-05-2012, 01:17 PM
lol really? the fact that this team retained the one seed is honestly remarkable and thibs deserves 0% blame here.

look at the roster minus rose. it's plain to see why they are struggling. this team was never built to contend without him and now we see the results of an injury. everyone has known this for 2+ seasons.

this is case/point why you don't build around one guy like that. don't really think it has anything do with anything else. philly is a good team that is healthy. not surprised that they are taking advantage.

JasonJohnHorn
05-05-2012, 01:21 PM
I'm still upset with Thibs for leaving Rose in the game when they were up by twenty and he KNEW Rose was just coming back from an injury and should have limited his minutes. That was just a bone head move. Would Rose have gotten injured anyways? Who knows. I know one thing is certain, he wouldnt have been injured in game one if Thibs had pulled Rose out when they were up by 20 with 5 minutes to go.

But Brown did the same thing in game one against Denver. They were up by twenty or so with five minutes and he left Bynum and Kobe and Gasol in the game (I think Bynum he left in because he was on pace to tie the NBA record for most blocks in a playoff game, and Kobe because he wants to pad his stats). Seriously... coaches need to pull out the vets when they are up by that much and give their bench a chance to get some playoff experience. Benches NEED time in the post season so they can get a feel for the game and be ready when it counts the most.

I'm shaking my head at Thibs though... he's such a great coach, how could he make a bone-headed move like that? i don't care that Rose was on pace for a triple double...

justinnum1
05-05-2012, 01:42 PM
Philly is just outplaying the bulls, plain and simple.

BearCubBull22
05-05-2012, 02:02 PM
Philly is just outplaying the bulls, plain and simple.

They have in spurts. They certainly did in game 2 and they throughly outplayed the Bulls in the 4th quarter of game 3. The Sixers were a tough match up for the Bulls at full strength- long, athletic, very good defensively, good in transition and don't turn the ball over. With no Rose, likely no Noah, and a one-armed Deng, you can easily argue they are Sixers are now the more talented team.