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View Full Version : Carmelo The Biggest (Playoff) Loser



raiderfaninTX
05-04-2012, 10:16 AM
If a mod thinks the title is a baiting title please feel free to change it

The guy is overrated and the stats do not lie

source : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303916904577373974101773782.html

Players with lowest playoff %

1.Carmello Anthony 16-36 .307
2.Mookie Blaylock 18-36 .333
3.Eduardo Najera 20-39 .339


There's not many top 5 players or all time greats on that list.

knicks4life33
05-04-2012, 10:19 AM
hmmmmm

Hawkeye15
05-04-2012, 10:19 AM
Surprised to see Brad Miller on there. Battier was with the Grizz and Rox during their constant first round exits, and the others seem to fit.

Does this kill the whole, "McGrady is not as good as Melo" crap? I mean, don't we kill TMac for not advancing in the playoffs, despite the fact he has had a team favored once in his life versus a Denver team that should have clearly done more than they did?

knicks4life33
05-04-2012, 10:21 AM
melo also went aganist really good teams in his days in denver

NYK4L
05-04-2012, 10:22 AM
Wooohho!

nycericanguy
05-04-2012, 10:24 AM
Not a big Melo fan, but in fairness to him, he's about to go 0-8 as a Knick. But Knicks never had a shot these past 2 years under their circumstances.

I mean what team can beat MIA right now? Let alone beat them with 3 starters out.

JordansBulls
05-04-2012, 10:25 AM
First wanted to say I like Melo as a player and even wanted him on the Bulls, but something I just realized about him is that if he doesn't raise his shooting percentage in the playoffs it would be the 5th year in the playoffs out of his 9 years in the playoffs that he shot below 38% FG for the postseason.
Now it is true the sample size is small since it is only a first round series, but even so, there is no way a guy should be shooting that low of a percentage in the 1st round nearly every other playoff run.
Is there any reason for that? Is it simply bad shot selection or what?

justinnum1
05-04-2012, 10:27 AM
Pretty sure you wanted to trade deng for him lol

JordansBulls
05-04-2012, 10:28 AM
melo also went aganist really good teams in his days in denver
Yeah but he should never had lost that series to Utah back in 2010 when Utah had 2 starters out.

Da Knicks
05-04-2012, 10:33 AM
His name is Carmelo and the series is not over!

MTL_123
05-04-2012, 10:34 AM
lol loved when they showed this stat watching the game at my friends house most of them die hard knick fans. when they showed this stat i was laughing my *** off then look at my friends acting like they didnt see lol to jokes

MTL_123
05-04-2012, 10:34 AM
His name is Carmelo and the series is not over!

lol why r u and evolution no where to be seen after every game?

Swashcuff
05-04-2012, 10:38 AM
Why do we continue to define individuals by their teams records? I mean the amount of variables that have to be taken into consideration leaves a lot to be desired if we're just going to say that he's bad because he never won very much.

Da Knicks
05-04-2012, 10:43 AM
lol why r u and evolution no where to be seen after every game?

im right here right now what you got to tell me?

MTL_123
05-04-2012, 10:44 AM
im right here right now what you got to tell me?

why do u keep hiding everytime u guys lose u were talking so much **** before the series :D

Hawkeye15
05-04-2012, 10:44 AM
Why do we continue to define individuals by their teams records? I mean the amount of variables that have to be taken into consideration leaves a lot to be desired if we're just going to say that he's bad because he never won very much.

While I completely agree in principal, it shows the monster difference between LeBron and Melo for example, on top of the statistical disparity. LeBron, with Melo's rosters, would never have been bounced out in the first round routinely or been anywhere near a top 10 worst list.

Melo is proving that he simply doesn't have what it takes to lead a team deep into the playoffs. And its not as if he has had pure garbage around him.

justinnum1
05-04-2012, 10:45 AM
lol

NYK4L
05-04-2012, 10:46 AM
Why do we continue to define individuals by their teams records? I mean the amount of variables that have to be taken into consideration leaves a lot to be desired if we're just going to say that he's bad because he never won very much.

Don't bother. Reasoning has no place here in PSD.

Avenged
05-04-2012, 10:46 AM
Why do we continue to define individuals by their teams records? I mean the amount of variables that have to be taken into consideration leaves a lot to be desired if we're just going to say that he's bad because he never won very much.

It's not like he's had bad teams though. And for someone who's considered one of the elite players in the game, well that stat is telling.

AIRMAR72
05-04-2012, 10:49 AM
like they say NUMBERS dont lie

Da Knicks
05-04-2012, 10:53 AM
why do u keep hiding everytime u guys lose u were talking so much **** before the series :D

Im not hiding im right here, and im a real knick fan to the core. I will die a knick fan and i will stick with them no matter what, i thought real knick fans proved ourselves sticking with our team throughout all these years. Ive being a fan since 88-89 and will continue to be like i said. I talk crap because im a fan and a competitive one, i have sig bets with justinum1 and buckets. If the heat can put us away i will wear the sigs proudly knowing that i backed up my team. That is what a real fan does, and second of all im a man of my word.... ps the series is not over......:)

LakersKB24
05-04-2012, 10:53 AM
Why do we continue to define individuals by their teams records? I mean the amount of variables that have to be taken into consideration leaves a lot to be desired if we're just going to say that he's bad because he never won very much.

:clap:

I think it's a little unfair to blame Melo. His shot selection may be questionable sometimes but if you look at this Knicks team and their performance agains the Heat, he's the only one who draws more than one defender on a regular basis.
Of course it's harder for you when your teammates aren't drawing any attention. Also the teams he has been on never really were championship material and they always had to face tough opponents in the playoffs.
The only team that had a chance was the one from 09, when they faced the Lakers in the WCF and you can't really blame them for losing that series...

NYK4L
05-04-2012, 10:54 AM
[QUOTE=Avenged24;22057006

It's not like he's had bad teams though.[/QUOTE]

True true. Lebron didn't either, two straight year's with the top record in the league was it? Lebron did get to the finals, melo didn't. They both made some changes, so far it has been going well for lebron and horrible for melo.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2012, 10:56 AM
True true. Lebron didn't either, two straight year's with the top record in the league was it? Lebron did get to the finals, melo didn't. They both made some changes, so far it has been going well for lebron and horrible for melo.

LeBron's Cleveland teams were a joke. He was the Cavs. I am sure he would have killed for the talent Melo had around him his first 7 years.

oak2455
05-04-2012, 11:01 AM
im right here right now what you got to tell me?

I think he :love: you

meloman1592
05-04-2012, 11:02 AM
I would make a point but this is psd...can't expect much from posters here

Swashcuff
05-04-2012, 11:02 AM
While I completely agree in principal, it shows the monster difference between LeBron and Melo for example, on top of the statistical disparity. LeBron, with Melo's rosters, would never have been bounced out in the first round routinely or been anywhere near a top 10 worst list.

Melo is proving that he simply doesn't have what it takes to lead a team deep into the playoffs. And its not as if he has had pure garbage around him.


It's not like he's had bad teams though. And for someone who's considered one of the elite players in the game, well that stat is telling.

I agree guys but IMO we just shouldn't define a player by it. Unless we break down each series in which he played in an attempt to ascertain the reason as to why his team's post season Winning % is so poor I just don't think that it should be set in stone that an individual is bad because of it.

Having good teammates is one thing but then you have to ask yourself the question, how good did those teammates really play? What seed were they and what advantages their oponent had on them. Also most importantly we have to remember that though Melo had good teams they were mostly high paced, good offensenses with poor D.

We know what happens in playoff basketball especially in the 90s onwards. For Melo to be successful in the post season under those circumstances given his level of production/talent (not as high as many would say) would be tough.

Swashcuff
05-04-2012, 11:05 AM
I would make a point but this is psd...can't expect much from posters here

Its not just a culture on PSD its fans basically on every corner of the earth. Make your point if its valid guys like Hawkeye15 and Avenged etc would note it if its not they'd let you know. Don't even worry about the trolls.

oak2455
05-04-2012, 11:05 AM
Why do we continue to define individuals by their teams records? I mean the amount of variables that have to be taken into consideration leaves a lot to be desired if we're just going to say that he's bad because he never won very much.

i agree 100%, look at a guy like Don Mattingly........one of my favorite players of all time how many playoffs did he go to and win?? That being said their team is a depleted squad with no Point guard ......not really all his fault

Hawkeye15
05-04-2012, 11:11 AM
I agree guys but IMO we just shouldn't define a player by it. Unless we break down each series in which he played in an attempt to ascertain the reason as to why his team's post season Winning % is so poor I just don't think that it should be set in stone that an individual is bad because of it.

Having good teammates is one thing but then you have to ask yourself the question, how good did those teammates really play? What seed were they and what advantages their oponent had on them. Also most importantly we have to remember that though Melo had good teams they were mostly high paced, good offensenses with poor D.

We know what happens in playoff basketball especially in the 90s onwards. For Melo to be successful in the post season under those circumstances given his level of production/talent (not as high as many would say) would be tough.

Oh absolutely you don't judge a player by just pulling up an article like this. But I have been in discussions over the years about probably each and every series Melo's team has lost. And its not as if he played on a team never favored to win a series, or at least capable of an occasional upset.

It goes further. What kind of players mesh with Melo? I don't believe he would ever thrive under a hardcore defensive coach, or someone who demanded constant ball movement and team work. The point is, Melo is quickly gaining the reputation as a so called super star who can not will his team or get his teammates inspired enough to win a series. And he doesn't have the two way talent and all around game of a LeBron and a few others who just take over a series by themselves and win it.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2012, 11:13 AM
Simply put, I think Carmelo Anthony will go down as this generations Allen Iverson.

THE GIPPER
05-04-2012, 11:15 AM
Yeah but he should never had lost that series to Utah back in 2010 when Utah had 2 starters out.

Im a nuggets fan and not a big supporter of melo anymore but that series could be blamed on a lot of guys but NOT melo. He played outstanding. Everyone else choked and Karl battling cancer didnt help either.

imbetterthanyou
05-04-2012, 11:17 AM
I believe Christian Shephard said it best to his son Jack (and maybe to Melo too):

"When it comes down to it son, you just don't have what it takes."

In all seriousness, I dont think Melo is the type of player to lead his team to a Finals run, but he is NOT getting help from his team in any way, Novak invisible, Stoudemire doing stoudemire things, Lin out (although I think he hurts Melo) and Shumpert their best perimeter defender not taking out Wade.
But I agree about the Denver years, he had some decent teams that he couldnt make a run with, and LeBron made runs with much less.

John Walls Era
05-04-2012, 11:19 AM
No Tmac? Then again he was just a choker, not really a loser. A series lead is never safe if Tmac is your go to guy.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2012, 11:20 AM
No Tmac? Then again he was just a choker, not really a loser. A series lead is never safe if Tmac is your go to guy.

Chronz is gonna mess you up dude!

THE GIPPER
05-04-2012, 11:21 AM
I believe Christian Shephard said it best to his son Jack (and maybe to Melo too):

"When it comes down to it son, you just don't have what it takes."

In all seriousness, I dont think Melo is the type of player to lead his team to a Finals run, but he is NOT getting help from his team in any way, Novak invisible, Stoudemire doing stoudemire things, Lin out (although I think he hurts Melo) and Shumpert their best perimeter defender not taking out Wade.
But I agree about the Denver years, he had some decent teams that he couldnt make a run with, and LeBron made runs with much less.

I dont think anyone is saying he's Lebron. I mean seriously, nobody in the entire league other than Bron could have got that Cavs team to the finals.

sharqstealth
05-04-2012, 11:30 AM
Its unfair to label him that way... Why don't you consider he has never missed the playoffs in his entire career? I don't think that losing percentage define how good or how poor he is as a player...

shep33
05-04-2012, 11:31 AM
Wow, that's pretty surprising right there. These Knick teams didn't stand a chance the past two years though. Still, I mean the Knicks put themselves in a bad spot both years due to poor regular seasons.

NYKnicks4511
05-04-2012, 11:33 AM
lol why r u and evolution no where to be seen after every game?

Because not everyone is an internet thug like you. Why are you always on this site?

NYY09
05-04-2012, 11:34 AM
Sucks to be a basketball fan in NYC, no doubt. But when you REALLY think about it, they couldnt even pull out a great draft pick when the team was horrendous, and that was for close to a decade.

From ownership to management to players this franchise is just :facepalm: . End of story.

And whoever thought Melo was a "superstar" needs to lay off the pipe.

Big Zo
05-04-2012, 11:38 AM
Its unfair to label him that way... Why don't you consider he has never missed the playoffs in his entire career? I don't think that losing percentage define how good or how poor he is as a player...

It's the NBA. Teams with ****** below .500 records can get in the playoffs.

Swashcuff
05-04-2012, 11:48 AM
Oh absolutely you don't judge a player by just pulling up an article like this. But I have been in discussions over the years about probably each and every series Melo's team has lost. And its not as if he played on a team never favored to win a series, or at least capable of an occasional upset.

It goes further. What kind of players mesh with Melo? I don't believe he would ever thrive under a hardcore defensive coach, or someone who demanded constant ball movement and team work. The point is, Melo is quickly gaining the reputation as a so called super star who can not will his team or get his teammates inspired enough to win a series. And he doesn't have the two way talent and all around game of a LeBron and a few others who just take over a series by themselves and win it.

Great point. IMO that is why he would never be among one of the greats. A system should not have to completely conform to a player in order for the player to maximize his ability and really not be beneficial to the team. If it were both then understandable but playing to suit Melo really doesn't help his teams.

I still think however that unless properly broken down one shouldn't use a stat like this to define a player.

D12 fan
05-04-2012, 11:54 AM
Melo is not a franchise player he's just a great scorer.

blahblahyoutoo
05-04-2012, 11:54 AM
Surprised to see Brad Miller on there. Battier was with the Grizz and Rox during their constant first round exits, and the others seem to fit.

Does this kill the whole, "McGrady is not as good as Melo" crap? I mean, don't we kill TMac for not advancing in the playoffs, despite the fact he has had a team favored once in his life versus a Denver team that should have clearly done more than they did?

t-mac > melo

it's pretty clear that melo is all about personal play and not making those around him better.
not like lebron, kobe, jkidd, MJ, etc.

blahblahyoutoo
05-04-2012, 11:58 AM
i agree 100%, look at a guy like Don Mattingly........one of my favorite players of all time how many playoffs did he go to and win?? That being said their team is a depleted squad with no Point guard ......not really all his fault

you can't even compare baseball to bball. it's not even remotely close.

celtNYpatsHeels
05-04-2012, 12:04 PM
Im not trying to defend Melo, but his days in Denver were surrounded by some pretty stacked Western Conference teams. And when he did have the luxury of a solid supporting cast the Nuggs did make the WCF.

The Knicks this year and last year were pretty garbage, and that contributes to a 0-8 record right there... So while I'm not defending Anthony I do think that those stats/records can be skewed a little.

Swashcuff
05-04-2012, 12:13 PM
Simply put, I think Carmelo Anthony will go down as this generations Allen Iverson.

Interesting. I think what sets them apart is A.I.'s heart. I can Melo's career path somewhat mirroring A.I.'s though A.I. was the better player. Melo has had more opportunities to be successful than A.I. has however.

mjm07
05-04-2012, 12:14 PM
Sucks to be a basketball fan in NYC, no doubt. But when you REALLY think about it, they couldnt even pull out a great draft pick when the team was horrendous, and that was for close to a decade.

From ownership to management to players this franchise is just :facepalm: . End of story.

And whoever thought Melo was a "superstar" needs to lay off the pipe.

Great point. I think Shump Shump is pretty good though.

Donuts365
05-04-2012, 12:14 PM
when your the only guy that can score consistantly on a team knicks two str8 years amare is useless the defense is mainly guarding you must be nice to have a triple threat melo came from west with laker mavs thunder spurs just to face heat bulls with a knicks team smh

Sadds The Gr8
05-04-2012, 12:16 PM
this shows exactly why he's one of the most overrated players in the last decade.

Gators123
05-04-2012, 12:19 PM
His last 3 (playoff) games-


Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2011-12 27 NYK NBA 3 122 12.5 .425 .352 8.5 19.5 13.6 12.0 1.4 0.8 13.9 33.7 89 112 -0.2 0.0 -0.2 -0.062

Donuts365
05-04-2012, 12:21 PM
Melo is not a franchise player he's just a great scorer.

just like dwight only defense

TheWhiteMamba
05-04-2012, 12:22 PM
I bet it's D'Antoni's fault. Lets face it, Melo was more concerned about getting his coached fired than winning this season.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2012, 12:22 PM
Interesting. I think what sets them apart is A.I.'s heart. I can Melo's career path somewhat mirroring A.I.'s though A.I. was the better player. Melo has had more opportunities to be successful than A.I. has however.

I can buy the heart difference. I really never respected AI until I was lucky enough to get seats like 12-13 rows from the floor at a game back in 2002 and watched him up close. Iverson attacked the rim 6 straight possessions, and was knocked on his *** 3 times, hard, and just kept coming back for more. I remember thinking, "that midget doesn't give a **** about getting hit. Toughest dude on the floor". When you see it up close, you realize how fast he really was, and how little he was. You also noticed he played with zero fear.

sharqstealth
05-04-2012, 12:22 PM
It's the NBA. Teams with ****** below .500 records can get in the playoffs.


FYI Melo never had a below .500 record season in his career...

Ill21
05-04-2012, 12:25 PM
If a mod thinks the title is a baiting title please feel free to change it

The guy is overrated and the stats do not lie

source : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303916904577373974101773782.html

Players with lowest playoff %

1.Carmello Anthony 16-36 .307
2.Mookie Blaylock 18-36 .333
3.Eduardo Najera 20-39 .339


There's not many top 5 players or all time greats on that list.

How about you spell his name right ;)

Cfrey
05-04-2012, 12:25 PM
First wanted to say I like Melo as a player and even wanted him on the Bulls, but something I just realized about him is that if he doesn't raise his shooting percentage in the playoffs it would be the 5th year in the playoffs out of his 9 years in the playoffs that he shot below 38% FG for the postseason.
Now it is true the sample size is small since it is only a first round series, but even so, there is no way a guy should be shooting that low of a percentage in the 1st round nearly every other playoff run.
Is there any reason for that? Is it simply bad shot selection or what?

This right here basically proves everything to everybody.

Melo is big scrub

NYY09
05-04-2012, 12:40 PM
Great point. I think Shump Shump is pretty good though.

I agree with Shump, guy is a beast and should only get better but the rest of the years? A pure definition of "Pathetic", throwing darts at a board might have yielded a more favorable outcome.

After the Ewing/ Van Gundy years the franchise has went into a tailspin of epic proportions. The sad part is that it seems like the horrendous decision making has no end in sight. Couple that with some questionable luck and there you have The New York Knicks.

NYY09
05-04-2012, 12:42 PM
How about you spell his name right ;)

Carson Palmer says hi Raidersfanintx....

raiderfaninTX
05-04-2012, 12:46 PM
Carson Palmer says hi Raidersfanintx....

Great defense to the article, I assume you agree with what I posted then

I do nto see a big difference between the raiders and knicks,


I dont know I maybe wrong

NYY09
05-04-2012, 12:54 PM
Great defense to the article, I assume you agree with what I posted then

I do nto see a big difference between the raiders and knicks,


I dont know I maybe wrong

As in both franchises "should" be much better than they are, yeah, absolutely. Making very questionable personel decisions? yup, that too.

IMO the stats you brought up are relative to the situation as a whole and don't speak that much about Melo as an individual player. Yeah his "teams" havent done that well but perhaps without him they wouldnt even be a playoff team, another school of thought.

The truth about Melo is kinda between the hate/love people, mostly people try and label him to what they think he should be, not what he is, which is a great scorer AT TIMES who needs a unique team around him for his team to succeed.

markh42
05-04-2012, 01:03 PM
his name is carmelo and the series is not over!
im a diehard knicks fan and im sorry but its over

PleaseBeNice
05-04-2012, 01:18 PM
How about you spell his name right ;)

He added an extra "L" to subliminally prove a point ;)

gotoHcarolina52
05-04-2012, 01:22 PM
He added an extra "L" to subliminally prove a point ;)

:laugh:

Da Knicks
05-04-2012, 01:32 PM
im a diehard knicks fan and im sorry but its over

sorry diehards dont give up...

LeonFSU
05-04-2012, 01:33 PM
First wanted to say I like Melo as a player and even wanted him on the Bulls, but something I just realized about him is that if he doesn't raise his shooting percentage in the playoffs it would be the 5th year in the playoffs out of his 9 years in the playoffs that he shot below 38% FG for the postseason.
Now it is true the sample size is small since it is only a first round series, but even so, there is no way a guy should be shooting that low of a percentage in the 1st round nearly every other playoff run.
Is there any reason for that? Is it simply bad shot selection or what?

Largely. His shot selection is atrocious, especially with the Knicks. Its really hard for me to even watch him play.

BKLYNpigeon
05-04-2012, 01:37 PM
the biggest playoff loser is Tracy Mcgrady.

Jint.
05-04-2012, 01:38 PM
Carmello..? never heard of him

BKLYNpigeon
05-04-2012, 01:39 PM
Im not a fan of Melo, but I respect his game. The Media has really turned him into a villain.

Chronz
05-04-2012, 01:46 PM
First wanted to say I like Melo as a player and even wanted him on the Bulls, but something I just realized about him is that if he doesn't raise his shooting percentage in the playoffs it would be the 5th year in the playoffs out of his 9 years in the playoffs that he shot below 38% FG for the postseason.
Now it is true the sample size is small since it is only a first round series, but even so, there is no way a guy should be shooting that low of a percentage in the 1st round nearly every other playoff run.
Is there any reason for that? Is it simply bad shot selection or what?

Youve just now realized Melo doesnt raise his game in the playoffs? Jesus thats like barely figuring out you need water to survive.



Why do we continue to define individuals by their teams records? I mean the amount of variables that have to be taken into consideration leaves a lot to be desired if we're just going to say that he's bad because he never won very much.
Agreed, which is why Melo is a double loser. I never expect his team to overachieve and I never expect him to significantly raise his game, in fact most times I expect it to regress.


I have to somewhat agree.

Wade willed the HEAT to at least 1 win over the 2009-10 Celtics team that later went to the Finals. He averaged 33.2 PPG, 56% FG, 40% 3PT, 5.6 REB, 6.8 AST, 1.6 BLK, 1.6 STL. You have to do whatever it takes to win, even if it's only win one game to save face.

Carmelo needs to carry the Knicks and play like an unstoppable monster to prove his worth.
TRUTH



Simply put, I think Carmelo Anthony will go down as this generations Allen Iverson.
A poor mans AI



No Tmac? Then again he was just a choker, not really a loser. A series lead is never safe if Tmac is your go to guy.
Yea damn Tmac for hitting a game winner to put Rox up 2-0 against a VASTLY superior Dallas team that was great on the road (conversely the Rockets were meh at home), or going up 3-1 on a vastly superior team that was finally getting healthy and finally figured out they had a defensive gem in Tayshaun. Totally unexplanable, I mean its not like someone the caliber of Kobe hasnt lost a series 3-1, at least Tmacs 3-1 loss makes sense all things considered.


sorry diehards dont give up...
So you enjoy rooting for something that has never happened? Your way too much of a diehard fan then, Im a realist when it comes to my team.

wizardsfan3
05-04-2012, 01:57 PM
sorry diehards dont give up...

It's over man. Knicks are a great team on paper, but on the court not so much...

KnickFanSince91
05-04-2012, 02:17 PM
All this means is he's had the misfortune of playing for the two coaches with the lowest playoff winning percentages among coaches with at least 50 games under their belt.

Mike D'Antoni - .473 (26-29)
George Karl - .431 (75-99)

http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Coach.jsp?sortOrder=5&conf=all&loc=all&season=all&active=all&pre=POST&team=all&pRd=all&x=22&y=8

tp13baby
05-04-2012, 02:24 PM
melo also went aganist really good teams in his days in denver

Aren't all playoff teams, especially in the west really good teams?

tp13baby
05-04-2012, 02:30 PM
I don't know if he has changed in NY, because I don't watch them. But in Denver he never was the leader the team needed. I think his playoff record is a direct correlation to that. The one year he went deep into the playoffs? Billups was running our point and was our MVP in most of our (Denvers) eyes. He Just doesn't or didn't have the leadership to lead teams.

Da Knicks
05-04-2012, 02:37 PM
So you enjoy rooting for something that has never happened? Your way too much of a diehard fan then, Im a realist when it comes to my team.[/QUOTE]

I enjoyed it in 99, you cant give up if you are a real fan of the team...:)

DoMeFavors
05-04-2012, 02:38 PM
Cant believe Dolan rushed Walsh a GM with experience to get Melo for all that talent, they should start over and admit that this entire thing failed. All this money being thrown around and its falling through the cracks. The idea is a failure Melo, Amare doesnt work.

gotoHcarolina52
05-04-2012, 02:39 PM
All this means is he's had the misfortune of playing for the two coaches with the lowest playoff winning percentages among coaches with at least 50 games under their belt.

Mike D'Antoni - .473 (26-29)
George Karl - .431 (75-99)

http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Coach.jsp?sortOrder=5&conf=all&loc=all&season=all&active=all&pre=POST&team=all&pRd=all&x=22&y=8

Carmelo played for Mike Fratello (.323) and Gene Shue (.390)?

Matrix3132
05-04-2012, 02:42 PM
melo also went aganist really good teams in his days in denver

So what you're trying to say is that melo played against good teams in the playoffs?

Interesting theory, never thought about it that way

Big Zo
05-04-2012, 02:43 PM
FYI Melo never had a below .500 record season in his career...

FYI, that's not the point. You asked why people don't give him more credit for it, and I answered why.

nycsports2
05-04-2012, 02:43 PM
well with 3 starters out i guess this is fair... lol smh

blahblahyoutoo
05-04-2012, 02:47 PM
FYI Melo never had a below .500 record season in his career...

knicks have been below or hovering around .500 since his arrival.

ne3xchamps
05-04-2012, 02:50 PM
This isn't going to end well.

John Walls Era
05-04-2012, 02:53 PM
Yea damn Tmac for hitting a game winner to put Rox up 2-0 against a VASTLY superior Dallas team that was great on the road (conversely the Rockets were meh at home), or going up 3-1 on a vastly superior team that was finally getting healthy and finally figured out they had a defensive gem in Tayshaun. Totally unexplanable, I mean its not like someone the caliber of Kobe hasnt lost a series 3-1, at least Tmacs 3-1 loss makes sense all things considered.


I was a Tmac fan until the last days he was with the Rockets. Disliked how he left Toronto, but I always rooted for him. But I can't be subjective. He choked badly when he was up 3-1 in that series and got cocky. He said he was excited for the 2nd round when there was still 1 game left to play. You forget to mention when the Rockets had homecourt advantage against the Jazz and choked in game 7 (despite being up 10 in the 4th quarter -- AK47 sparked the Jazz with B2B 3s and Tmac turned cold). JVG got replaced after that series. Also the Mavs weren't any more superior than the Rockets on paper, having a 2-0 lead going back home and losing the series (they got blown out in game 7) is choking.

I will give Tmac that if he played against the Blazers, Rockets probably would've advanced to the 2nd round like they did anyways.

meloman1592
05-04-2012, 02:56 PM
Say what you want about him not getting to the finals in denver but in NY he hasn't had a legit chance to. The Knicks have been injury hit HARD in his first 2 seasons here. Would Miami have gotten to the Finals last year if Wade was out for the playoffs with a bad ankle and Bosh had back Spasms? Im not comparing Billups and amare to Wade and Bosh, but those were the 2 other main pieces for their respective teams...Miami wouldnt have gotten past boston or chicago. This year they lose Lin, SHump and Amare....even at full strength they wouldn't beat the heat but when you subtract 3 extremely important pieces, there's absolutely no chance in hell. Lets say you remove Chalmers, Battier and Bosh...Miami is no longer favorites to win it all.

My point is, judge Carmelo's playoff failure success from Denver, not New York. He hasn't had a full team to work with as of yet. And Melo could have been a champion in 08...or 09 i forgot what year but Anthony Carter doesn't know how to make inbounds passes.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-04-2012, 02:57 PM
always have said the guy is overrated, but homers eyes dont see it

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-04-2012, 02:59 PM
Simply put, I think Carmelo Anthony will go down as this generations Allen Iverson.

AI was an MVP, dont think Melo will get that in his lifetime

DoMeFavors
05-04-2012, 03:00 PM
Say what you want about him not getting to the finals in denver but in NY he hasn't had a legit chance to. The Knicks have been injury hit HARD in his first 2 seasons here. Would Miami have gotten to the Finals last year if Wade was out for the playoffs with a bad ankle and Bosh had back Spasms? Im not comparing Billups and amare to Wade and Bosh, but those were the 2 other main pieces for their respective teams...Miami wouldnt have gotten past boston or chicago. This year they lose Lin, SHump and Amare....even at full strength they wouldn't beat the heat but when you subtract 3 extremely important pieces, there's absolutely no chance in hell. Lets say you remove Chalmers, Battier and Bosh...Miami is no longer favorites to win it all.

My point is, judge Carmelo's playoff failure success from Denver, not New York. He hasn't had a full team to work with as of yet. And Melo could have been a champion in 08...or 09 i forgot what year but Anthony Carter doesn't know how to make inbounds passes.

Knicks couldnt win a game! NOT 1 game, thats sad. Celtics last year were easy.

Kashmir13579
05-04-2012, 03:04 PM
New York exposed 'Melo for the cancer he is.

Kashmir13579
05-04-2012, 03:05 PM
Knicks fans are doomed to suffer.

mjm07
05-04-2012, 03:05 PM
AI was an MVP, dont think Melo will get that in his lifetime

If D-Rose can, so can he.

Bryant + Shaq combined to have as many MVP titles as Steve Nash(if i'm not mistaken) so anything's possible.

He certaintly has the talent to make it happen. Does he have the heart/will/dedication as previous winners? .....

thekmp211
05-04-2012, 03:05 PM
i usually don't mind, but how can you be a basketball fan and not ****ing know how to spell carmelo? like even by accident?

sorry. but cmon. and yes, at some point people have to ask is it worth accomodating an entire team for this guy who is, how shall we say, very hit or miss. all the talent in the world, but he's not a smart offensive player. even worse for new york is that he's redundant with diminished amar'e, who suffered the most from this whole ordeal.

something like lin/amare for jennings/ilysova needs to go down and fast, if the melo knicks are ever going to have a chance. a trade along those lines.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2012, 03:06 PM
AI was an MVP, dont think Melo will get that in his lifetime

he won it, but he was never the MVP. Chronz said it perfect honestly, a poor man's AI. I literally meant they resemble each other in the fact that they are clearly overrated superstars beloved by their fan base and average fans, whose games have big holes in them.

Wade>You
05-04-2012, 03:09 PM
Carmelo teams have never missed the playoffs, either.

Two ways to look at the glass....

Kashmir13579
05-04-2012, 03:11 PM
The sad part is the Knicks could trade him for a number of packages that would amp up the Knicks roster and give them wiggle-room to make adjustments in the offseason. Not only is the current roster not going to work, we have no cap flexibility to tweak the roster.

People called me crazy and they probably still do, but i would've traded 'Melo at the height of Linsanity.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-04-2012, 03:12 PM
If D-Rose can, so can he.

Bryant + Shaq combined to have as many MVP titles as Steve Nash(if i'm not mistaken) so anything's possible.

He certaintly has the talent to make it happen. Does he have the heart/will/dedication as previous winners? .....

D-Rose is efficient, Melo not so much

willabeast77
05-04-2012, 03:14 PM
The stat isn't that surprising to be honest. I mean, every season he's been in the playoffs, his team didn't have homecourt to win except one year. The one year they did have a high seed with homecourt (2009', 2nd seed) they made the WCF. Even then, that was a lot due to Chauncey Billups. Though Carmelo's numbers do decline in the post-season.

Showtime Steve
05-04-2012, 03:16 PM
My problem is the his name being spelled wrong.

meloman1592
05-04-2012, 03:17 PM
Knicks couldnt win a game! NOT 1 game, thats sad. Celtics last year were easy.

First of all...Do you honestly think

Toney Douglas
Landry Fields
Melo
Jared Jeffries
Ronny Turiaf

could have beaten the celtics???? Cmon be serious!

2nd of all...you're a nets fan. L O L

KnickFanSince91
05-04-2012, 03:20 PM
Carmelo played for Mike Fratello (.323) and Gene Shue (.390)?

Typo...should've read "for two of the"

gotoHcarolina52
05-04-2012, 03:23 PM
First of all...Do you honestly think

Toney Douglas
Landry Fields
Melo
Jared Jeffries
Ronny Turiaf

could have beaten the celtics???? Cmon be serious!

2nd of all...you're a nets fan. L O L

I don't care about the Nets, but come on, man. You guys don't have room to be talking **** to Nets fans.

Since 2000:

Nets: 4 division titles and 2 Eastern Conference championships
Knicks: 0 division titles and 13 straight playoff losses

L O L

Meaze_Gibson
05-04-2012, 03:23 PM
He only lost in 1 series of which he was supposed to win. While his playoff shooting percentages aren't great, neither are durant's. And to those he say his teams were stacked, in his prime he has gone against Lakers, Spurs, Boston, Heat (probably), and Utah. 4 of those 5 have been champs within this past decade while the other team has a top 10 coach of all time. Biggest Loser?..hardly. Unluckiest Playoff Performer is more deserving

beasted86
05-04-2012, 03:28 PM
i usually don't mind, but how can you be a basketball fan and not ****ing know how to spell carmelo? like even by accident?

sorry. but cmon. and yes, at some point people have to ask is it worth accomodating an entire team for this guy who is, how shall we say, very hit or miss. all the talent in the world, but he's not a smart offensive player. even worse for new york is that he's redundant with diminished amar'e, who suffered the most from this whole ordeal.

something like lin/amare for jennings/ilysova needs to go down and fast, if the melo knicks are ever going to have a chance. a trade along those lines.

At least Carmelo is an unusual name. I've never in my life seen one person with their name spelled "Griffen". Not even the mythical creature is spelled "Griffen".

raiderfaninTX
05-04-2012, 03:32 PM
My problem is the his name being spelled wrong.

FAIL

yeah I messed up but please make sure your right when you want to correct someone's grammar

meloman1592
05-04-2012, 03:33 PM
I don't care about the Nets, but come on, man. You guys don't have room to be talking **** to Nets fans.

Since 2000:

Nets: 4 division titles and 2 Eastern Conference championships
Knicks: 0 division titles and 13 straight playoff losses

L O L

Wasn't talking to you...and if its not a ring, it doesn't matter

meloman1592
05-04-2012, 03:34 PM
He only lost in 1 series of which he was supposed to win. While his playoff shooting percentages aren't great, neither are durant's. And to those he say his teams were stacked, in his prime he has gone against Lakers, Spurs, Boston, Heat (probably), and Utah. 4 of those 5 have been champs within this past decade while the other team has a top 10 coach of all time. Biggest Loser?..hardly. Unluckiest Playoff Performer is more deserving

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Sadds The Gr8
05-04-2012, 03:44 PM
Carmelo teams have never missed the playoffs, either.

Two ways to look at the glass....

because he's always played with good talent around him and never had to really bust his *** to carry a squad. who cares if he's never missed the playoffs? he ***** the bed everytime he gets there.

PleaseBeNice
05-04-2012, 03:44 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think your sig is backwards.

streetsmarts13
05-04-2012, 03:52 PM
Carmelo teams have never missed the playoffs, either.

Two ways to look at the glass....

Half the NBA make the playoffs. Is that really big accomplishment. CMON MAN

jam
05-04-2012, 03:58 PM
Half the NBA make the playoffs. Is that really big accomplishment. CMON MAN

Considering the level of competition, yes, it is.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-04-2012, 04:12 PM
Considering the level of competition, yes, it is.

knicks almost missed the playoffs in a sorry *** eastern conference

Stinkyoutsider
05-04-2012, 04:25 PM
I can see why Melo is shooting under 40% this series. Lebron James is why...

I think that Anthony doesn't let the game and offense come to him. Coaches and teammates see his talent every day in practice and he becomes the first option. But Melo doesn't understand that, just because you're a number 1 scoring option, you don't have to take a ton of tough shots. And, his teammates should see the same thing and look to exploit their matchups.

I think Anthony is in a losing situation. If he defers all the time, people question why he didn't take more shots. If he does what he's doing right now, people are asking why he's shooting so much.

Honestly, he needs to change his mindset.

STA_PLAR
05-04-2012, 04:42 PM
Nobody takes this post seriously...I HOPE
Carmelo was in the big bad west when he started in his career.....
Now that the East has become stronger bc of Miami he came out East.

His days in Denver were always ****ed up by a Lakers team which was too good for his nuggets.

Now in the East he played Boston and Miami his first two years...while I agree with his skill he shouldve been able to steal a game or two in each series...

You still want him on your team though. Knicks simply cant **** with Miami. I said it before this series and yes I am a KNICK fan.

Knickerbocker34
05-04-2012, 04:47 PM
damn its hard to be a knicks fan

Meaze_Gibson
05-04-2012, 04:56 PM
Nobody takes this post seriously...I HOPE
Carmelo was in the big bad west when he started in his career.....
Now that the East has become stronger bc of Miami he came out East.

His days in Denver were always ****ed up by a Lakers team which was too good for his nuggets.

Now in the East he played Boston and Miami his first two years...while I agree with his skill he shouldve been able to steal a game or two in each series...

You still want him on your team though. Knicks simply cant **** with Miami. I said it before this series and yes I am a KNICK fan.

See this where I differ. I expected Melo to steal a game or two with a healthy knick squad. We look to these guys as superheros but they are not. 3 of their top 5 players are gone. 2 of their top 3 players were gone last year. A win would be nice but I just don't expect that.

Thats like stripping my boy wade of haslem and chalmers in 09 and 10. That's like stripping Bron of Varejao, Mo Willams, (even tho he disappeared in playoffs anyway) in 2009. He has been dealt a rough hand these last two playoff years.

PlezPlayDKnicks
05-04-2012, 05:12 PM
Spend ur career vs the Lakers and the Spurs and see your playoff success. If people crown LbJ for not having a team but the east being piss poor at the time you can't have it both ways. Melo has flaws for sure but this is an unfair assessment

Sadds The Gr8
05-04-2012, 05:33 PM
Spend ur career vs the Lakers and the Spurs and see your playoff success. If people crown LbJ for not having a team but the east being piss poor at the time you can't have it both ways. Melo has flaws for sure but this is an unfair assessment
What? Of course its fair. DWill, cp3, Dirk all elevate their games and never **** the bed in the playoffs every year and they all played in the west most of their careers. They all have faces the spurs and LAL lots of times.

Blitzbolt
05-04-2012, 05:36 PM
Isos don't work in the playoffs is that simple.

KnickaBocka.44
05-04-2012, 05:49 PM
Surprised to see Brad Miller on there. Battier was with the Grizz and Rox during their constant first round exits, and the others seem to fit.

Does this kill the whole, "McGrady is not as good as Melo" crap? I mean, don't we kill TMac for not advancing in the playoffs, despite the fact he has had a team favored once in his life versus a Denver team that should have clearly done more than they did?

No, T-Mac didn't qualify for this list because he has not even played the minimum of 50 playoff games.

Donuts365
05-04-2012, 05:49 PM
The sad part is the Knicks could trade him for a number of packages that would amp up the Knicks roster and give them wiggle-room to make adjustments in the offseason. Not only is the current roster not going to work, we have no cap flexibility to tweak the roster.

People called me crazy and they probably still do, but i would've traded 'Melo at the height of Linsanity.

good theory but even if you trade melo still wont get to the finals til heat big 3 age out atleast with a healthy melo amare chandler lin etc you have a chance

Donuts365
05-04-2012, 05:50 PM
Isos don't work in the playoffs is that simple.

lebron wade do it all game

Meaze_Gibson
05-04-2012, 06:06 PM
I can see why Melo is shooting under 40% this series. Lebron James is why...

I think that Anthony doesn't let the game and offense come to him. Coaches and teammates see his talent every day in practice and he becomes the first option. But Melo doesn't understand that, just because you're a number 1 scoring option, you don't have to take a ton of tough shots. And, his teammates should see the same thing and look to exploit their matchups.

I think Anthony is in a losing situation. If he defers all the time, people question why he didn't take more shots. If he does what he's doing right now, people are asking why he's shooting so much.

Honestly, he needs to change his mindset.

Bruh, not trying to knock you personally, but do you watch the game. Melo is one of the best forward decision makers in game. But when Landry Fields misses wide open threes, when Novak can't pumpfake and put ball on floor, when Jr. Smith is the only reliable option on the weakside, how are you going to exploit anything?

As a Heat fan but basketball fan first, some of you fans get so caught up, you don't give credit when its due. Dude played great d on bron in first half, while remaining calm against some iffy calls. He made the correct passes when needed but players weren't taking advantage. Between him defending arguably the best player in NBA, with 2 of his main starters out, and no one hitting shots, Do you really expect him to get 30 on near 50% shooting? lol..Who would?

JasonJohnHorn
05-04-2012, 06:11 PM
Well.... he has won 16 playoff games, which is all you need to win a title, he's just got to do it all in one season now.
It does say something that there are players with as many playoff wins in a single season as Melo' has in his career so far, but this isn't all on Melo. When he got beat, he got beat by teams that were better. Its like McGrady. He has never been out of the first round, but he's also always been beat by teams that were better (though I hate McGrady as a basketball player, always thought he was a ball hog).

Anyways... There are lots of players with fewer wins than that, and Melo is in his prime right now. Let us wait and see what else he has in store for his career before we pass judgement on him.

metsbulls1025
05-04-2012, 06:19 PM
The thing that kills the Knicks is they don't have the defense to match up to the Heat. Since they don't have that they need efficient scorers on the floor and that is an even bigger problem. Lebron James and Dwayne Wade are just about a lock to not only shoot 50 percent (or over), but make it to the free throw line a lot. When the Knicks can't get consistent offesne because of lack of consistency from shooters they find themselves allowing the Heat to go on 10-2 runs through out the game.

Lebron James isn't the main reason Carmelo Anthony is shooting so bad. The Heat use about 3 defenders on him because they don't have anyone else who can score the basketball. Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, and Shane Battier all take turns. Not to mention Carmelo Anthony isn't a very good shooter. Good scorer yes, but not efficient enough.

ManRam
05-04-2012, 06:23 PM
Not a big Melo fan, but in fairness to him, he's about to go 0-8 as a Knick. But Knicks never had a shot these past 2 years under their circumstances.

I mean what team can beat MIA right now? Let alone beat them with 3 starters out.

Sorry, maybe I'm wrong, but I think a lot of the other true super star players in the NBA could have squeaked out a win with either of these Knicks teams :shrug:


A lot of it isn't his fault, for sure. He's not this awful...but there is something truthfully being told here. We credit him for being "the leauge's best scorer" (which makes zero sense to me) and for being ultra clutch (and he can hit big shots)...but rarely does he ever take a game over, at least in the playoffs, and will his team to a win.

This year, that's hard to ask for, since more often than not the Heat are blowing the Knicks out...

Meaze_Gibson
05-04-2012, 06:35 PM
Sorry, maybe I'm wrong, but I think a lot of the other true super star players in the NBA could have squeaked out a win with either of these Knicks teams :shrug:


A lot of it isn't his fault, for sure. He's not this awful...but there is something truthfully being told here. We credit him for being "the leauge's best scorer" (which makes zero sense to me) and for being ultra clutch (and he can hit big shots)...but rarely does he ever take a game over, at least in the playoffs, and will his team to a win.
This year, that's hard to ask for, since more often than not the Heat are blowing the Knicks out...

I know that they didnt win, but last years 42pt 17rb 6as performance on Boston was his takeover game...You can't win tho when your best players are not there. I think he got another good game coming this series tho

metsbulls1025
05-04-2012, 06:37 PM
I know that they didnt win, but last years 42pt 17rb 6as performance on Boston was his takeover game...You can't win tho when your best players are not there. I think he got another good game coming this series tho

A lot of guys, some not even considered stars, can take over games once in a blue moon. Hell Ben Gordon can take over a game. The problem with Melo is consistency.

ManRam
05-04-2012, 06:49 PM
I know that they didnt win, but last years 42pt 17rb 6as performance on Boston was his takeover game...You can't win tho when your best players are not there. I think he got another good game coming this series tho

I said "rarely". Yes, he's done it once or twice...but still. Even with the average teams he's had, and the strong opponents he's faced, you'd think he could have mustered up a single win of his last 13 chances? Or even just a few more over his entire 50 game playoff career. He had some decent talent around him back in Denver...and never really did a whole lot with it, aside from that one year (08 or 09...I forget) where they made the WCF.

Has he made it out of the first round ever besides that? I mean...that says something if he indeed hasn't.

SteveNash
05-04-2012, 07:00 PM
Poor Najera, his record being soiled by Carmelo.


Surprised to see Brad Miller on there. Battier was with the Grizz and Rox during their constant first round exits, and the others seem to fit.

Does this kill the whole, "McGrady is not as good as Melo" crap? I mean, don't we kill TMac for not advancing in the playoffs, despite the fact he has had a team favored once in his life versus a Denver team that should have clearly done more than they did?

Carmelo never lost to a team with a worse record than his in the playoffs. So right now he's in Jordan territory.

Tracy McGrady lost up 3-1. Up 2-0 going home, and twice with HCA.

Meaze_Gibson
05-04-2012, 07:16 PM
A lot of guys, some not even considered stars, can take over games once in a blue moon. Hell Ben Gordon can take over a game. The problem with Melo is consistency.

There are only about 4 players who receive the defensive attention that Melo gets. (Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Kobe,) None of them have had the injury depleted playoff squads he's been forced to carry the last two years.

While near his prime (2006) he has been majorily consistent. Against the Jazz, (2010), he played well. He played well in 09 (Hornets, Mavs, Lakers). Played ok in 08. (Lakers). Played well in 07 (Spurs), His last two against Miami and Boston have been below his standard but, as stated, he has not had a healthy team.

I feel with a healthy team, Carmelo has proven to be absolutely consistent in his production in the postseason. With a healthy team, he will give you around 25 points 8-9 boards and 3 assists on 44% shooting. Not quite the Loser stats people are throwing out.

Meaze_Gibson
05-04-2012, 07:33 PM
I said "rarely". Yes, he's done it once or twice...but still. Even with the average teams he's had, and the strong opponents he's faced, you'd think he could have mustered up a single win of his last 13 chances? Or even just a few more over his entire 50 game playoff career. He had some decent talent around him back in Denver...and never really did a whole lot with it, aside from that one year (08 or 09...I forget) where they made the WCF.

Has he made it out of the first round ever besides that? I mean...that says something if he indeed hasn't.

The Knicks havent mustered a single win in last 13 chances. Melo has.

He never did much with the decent talent because he went up against majorily elite teams. There's a difference between strong and elite. Strong is a team like the Jazz, who he has lost one series to. Elite are teams like the Spurs, Lakers, Boston, and Miami. You aren't beating these teams with poor to average talent.

To be honest, Melo was not even suppose to be at 50 playoff games. The catch is that he lead his teams to playoffs while other stars teams chased lottery hope. It's not like he is Joe Johnson out here clowning in season and disappearing for no reason in the post season. Dude is extremely legit when he has a healthy team.

MarkieMark48
05-04-2012, 08:07 PM
:clap:

I think it's a little unfair to blame Melo. His shot selection may be questionable sometimes but if you look at this Knicks team and their performance agains the Heat, he's the only one who draws more than one defender on a regular basis.
Of course it's harder for you when your teammates aren't drawing any attention. Also the teams he has been on never really were championship material and they always had to face tough opponents in the playoffs.
The only team that had a chance was the one from 09, when they faced the Lakers in the WCF and you can't really blame them for losing that series...

kinda like any of the Cavs teams Lebron was on?

Sadds The Gr8
05-04-2012, 08:09 PM
Poor Najera, his record being soiled by Carmelo.



Carmelo never lost to a team with a worse record than his in the playoffs. So right now he's in Jordan territory.

Tracy McGrady lost up 3-1. Up 2-0 going home, and twice with HCA.

Didn't they lose to Utah a couple years ago with HCA? The series where Deron owned them

Chronz
05-04-2012, 08:15 PM
I was a Tmac fan until the last days he was with the Rockets.
Explain.


Disliked how he left Toronto, but I always rooted for him.
What?


But I can't be subjective. He choked badly when he was up 3-1 in that series and got cocky.
Hardly, the Pistons were getting healthy and realized Tayshaun was a great defender. Thats not choking, thats getting beat by a better team. If thats choking then lots of superstars have choked much harder so I really dont care. At least Tmac's team overachieved, thats all I can ask for. I mean taking the first seed to 7, with his cast, against that team. You can label that choking if you wish, so long as you recognize it is in fact a better performance than most stars could have mustered, unless your dumb enough to think more of him if he had just gotten swept instead.



He said he was excited for the 2nd round when there was still 1 game left to play.
Irrelevant, cockiness does not constitute choking.


You forget to mention when the Rockets had homecourt advantage against the Jazz and choked in game 7 (despite being up 10 in the 4th quarter -- AK47 sparked the Jazz with B2B 3s and Tmac turned cold).
I didnt mention it because I was only speaking about Tmac before the injuries wrecked his playing style, Tmac of old wouldve dominated Fisher. Also, that loss had more to do with Yao than Tmac. He couldnt rebound, couldnt defend and the Jazz had a more complete team.



JVG got replaced after that series. Also the Mavs weren't any more superior than the Rockets on paper, having a 2-0 lead going back home and losing the series (they got blown out in game 7) is choking.
LMFAO, your paper is all wrong. The Rockets lost both of their starting PF's (one to a trade the other to injury) and had to start a D-Leaguer. Against one of the deepest teams. Dirk was clamped down in large part due to Tmac's defense against him. I see no choke job, just 1 man willing a team far beyond its capability while a superior team (particularly on the road vs a weak home team) overcame its star being shutdown. Its essentially the same team that would contend over years.



I will give Tmac that if he played against the Blazers, Rockets probably would've advanced to the 2nd round like they did anyways.

Well no ****, Nate was stupid enough to play Yao 1 on 1 in G1 and they tried to play traditional basketball. Teams only have success against the Rockets if they can turn a primary strength (Yao's defensive impact) into a huge liability. It took them too long to go small.

DenButsu
05-04-2012, 08:50 PM
Surprised to see Brad Miller on there. Battier was with the Grizz and Rox during their constant first round exits, and the others seem to fit.

Does this kill the whole, "McGrady is not as good as Melo" crap? I mean, don't we kill TMac for not advancing in the playoffs, despite the fact he has had a team favored once in his life versus a Denver team that should have clearly done more than they did?

In fairness to Melo, when he was with the Nuggets, they were at a pretty severe disadvantage in the first round almost every time.

2004 - 8th seed, 1st round loss to Wovles (NBA's 2nd best record, WC finalist, KG MVP)
2005 - 7th seed, 1st round loss to Spurs (NBA champions)
2006 - This was the worst one. 3rd seed, 1st round loss to Clippers. The Nuggs were fielding a pretty crap team, though, w/ Greg Buckner and Fransisco Elson as starters and Earl Boykins as 6th man, and then Kenyon beefing w/ Karl and getting benched for the series.
2007 - 6th seed, 1st round loss to Spurs (NBA champions)
2008 - 8th seed, 1st round loss to Lakers (NBA finalists, best WC record)
2009 - The obvious best one. 2nd seed, WCF loss to Lakers (NBA champions)
2010 - This one was pretty bad. 4th seed, 1st round loss to Jazz (lost in 2nd round).

So really, 2006 and 2010 were Melo's only two playoff outings in Denver where the team did worse than should have been expected. In 3 of the remaining 5 they lost to the eventual champs, and in 1 he was a rookie who turned around a lotto franchise that was lucky to even make the playoffs at all.

I've been plenty critical of Melo here at PSD, but let it never be said that I don't give him his due when merited. :cool:

To me, the more damning indictment of Melo than his postseason performances would be his (at least in long stretches) lackadaisical, unimpassioned regular season play, which contributed to Denver constantly having worse-than-they-should records, and ending up at the bottom of the playoff bracket faced with horrible matchups against (all too often) the Spurs and Lakers. What happened after they got there was usually no surprise.

Chronz
05-04-2012, 09:05 PM
In fairness to Melo, when he was with the Nuggets, they were at a pretty severe disadvantage in the first round almost every time.
My thing is, if thats the excuse than people really need to let go of this idea that hes some sort of star. Nobody expects Melo to win, hell I dont even expect him to show up, but he usually takes it a step further than that.

ball4reel
05-04-2012, 09:11 PM
LeBron's Cleveland teams were a joke. He was the Cavs. I am sure he would have killed for the talent Melo had around him his first 7 years.

The west was much stronger then the east was at that time also..

phantasyyy
05-04-2012, 09:35 PM
at least melo got dat national title so...

MELO > JEBRON LAMES

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

:D

Dade County
05-05-2012, 12:36 AM
at least melo got dat national title so...

MELO > JEBRON LAMES

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

:D

So are you trying to say if Lbj want to Collage he would not have won a title?

I really hope you are not trying to say this.

Max.This
05-05-2012, 01:48 AM
So are you trying to say if Lbj want to Collage he would not have won a title?

I really hope you are not trying to say this.

No hes saying he would flunk out because he wouldn't pass his classes

JordansBulls
05-05-2012, 09:40 AM
In fairness to Melo, when he was with the Nuggets, they were at a pretty severe disadvantage in the first round almost every time.

2004 - 8th seed, 1st round loss to Wovles (NBA's 2nd best record, WC finalist, KG MVP)
2005 - 7th seed, 1st round loss to Spurs (NBA champions)
2006 - This was the worst one. 3rd seed, 1st round loss to Clippers. The Nuggs were fielding a pretty crap team, though, w/ Greg Buckner and Fransisco Elson as starters and Earl Boykins as 6th man, and then Kenyon beefing w/ Karl and getting benched for the series.
2007 - 6th seed, 1st round loss to Spurs (NBA champions)
2008 - 8th seed, 1st round loss to Lakers (NBA finalists, best WC record)
2009 - The obvious best one. 2nd seed, WCF loss to Lakers (NBA champions)
2010 - This one was pretty bad. 4th seed, 1st round loss to Jazz (lost in 2nd round).

So really, 2006 and 2010 were Melo's only two playoff outings in Denver where the team did worse than should have been expected. In 3 of the remaining 5 they lost to the eventual champs, and in 1 he was a rookie who turned around a lotto franchise that was lucky to even make the playoffs at all.

I've been plenty critical of Melo here at PSD, but let it never be said that I don't give him his due when merited. :cool:

To me, the more damning indictment of Melo than his postseason performances would be his (at least in long stretches) lackadaisical, unimpassioned regular season play, which contributed to Denver constantly having worse-than-they-should records, and ending up at the bottom of the playoff bracket faced with horrible matchups against (all too often) the Spurs and Lakers. What happened after they got there was usually no surprise.
:clap:

effen5
05-05-2012, 09:54 AM
No hes saying he would flunk out because he wouldn't pass his classes

Im surpised Melo passed his classes....hell Im surpised Rose passed his classes too lol.

ChaseHamels
05-05-2012, 10:52 AM
So are you trying to say if Lbj want to Collage he would not have won a title?

I really hope you are not trying to say this.

Has Lebron won any titles since he was a juvenile?

I don't know what argument I want to make in this thread. Melo truly is overrated, but Heat fans(?), South Florida fans(?) are so fake and weak it makes me laugh.

Oh and COLLAGE? Really dude... yikes.

GiantsSwaGG
05-05-2012, 11:03 AM
at least melo got dat national title so...

MELO > JEBRON LAMES

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

:D

:facepalm:

KnickNyKnick
05-05-2012, 11:38 AM
If a mod thinks the title is a baiting title please feel free to change it

The guy is overrated and the stats do not lie

source : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303916904577373974101773782.html

Players with lowest playoff %

1.Carmello Anthony 16-36 .307
2.Mookie Blaylock 18-36 .333
3.Eduardo Najera 20-39 .339


There's not many top 5 players or all time greats on that list.


lol did u see the teams melo faced throughout his playoff career? and what those teams accomplished?

Nugget Tony
05-05-2012, 12:06 PM
Something we Nugget fans who didn't have our heads up Carmelo's Lame Game ***** knew a long time ago..... (Not trying to bait here in your forum)

Something the Knicks fans will learn sooner or later.....

Get used to 1 and done.....

MarkieMark48
05-05-2012, 12:52 PM
No hes saying he would flunk out because he wouldn't pass his classes

Lebron graduated high school with a 3.2 GPA... but in college it wouldnt matter, its an unwritten rule for professors to pass their schools sports stars.

mrblisterdundee
05-05-2012, 02:01 PM
I think Tracy McGrady still holds the crown of biggest playoff loser. Carmello Anthony has gotten past the first round. There's no reason to bash on him just because the Knicks made a mistake pairing him up with Amare Stoudemire. That's been about as disastrous as Anthony being paired up with Allen Iverson (although Iverson actually knows how to pass a basketball once in a while).

SteveNash
05-05-2012, 02:05 PM
Didn't they lose to Utah a couple years ago with HCA? The series where Deron owned them

Tied records. And Karl was out and Denver was tanking fast.

mrblisterdundee
05-05-2012, 02:06 PM
Lebron graduated high school with a 3.2 GPA... but in college it wouldnt matter, its an unwritten rule for professors to pass their schools sports stars.

I don't think that's accurate. They don't just pass them; schools provide an inordinate amount of tutors and other aids to sports stars to make sure they do well. For instance, I went to the University of Oregon, where the top two floors of the John E. Jaqua Academic Center are entirely reserved for athletes to study in. The Jaqua Center is also the most expensive building per square foot in the entire state of Oregon (more than even any building on the Nike campus). Of course, this might not be the case at schools that don't have Phil Knight backing them up.

ManningToTyree
05-05-2012, 02:29 PM
I think the real story here is Eduardo Najera is still an active player.

Crackadalic
05-05-2012, 02:37 PM
In fairness to Melo, when he was with the Nuggets, they were at a pretty severe disadvantage in the first round almost every time.

2004 - 8th seed, 1st round loss to Wovles (NBA's 2nd best record, WC finalist, KG MVP)
2005 - 7th seed, 1st round loss to Spurs (NBA champions)
2006 - This was the worst one. 3rd seed, 1st round loss to Clippers. The Nuggs were fielding a pretty crap team, though, w/ Greg Buckner and Fransisco Elson as starters and Earl Boykins as 6th man, and then Kenyon beefing w/ Karl and getting benched for the series.
2007 - 6th seed, 1st round loss to Spurs (NBA champions)
2008 - 8th seed, 1st round loss to Lakers (NBA finalists, best WC record)
2009 - The obvious best one. 2nd seed, WCF loss to Lakers (NBA champions)
2010 - This one was pretty bad. 4th seed, 1st round loss to Jazz (lost in 2nd round).

So really, 2006 and 2010 were Melo's only two playoff outings in Denver where the team did worse than should have been expected. In 3 of the remaining 5 they lost to the eventual champs, and in 1 he was a rookie who turned around a lotto franchise that was lucky to even make the playoffs at all.

I've been plenty critical of Melo here at PSD, but let it never be said that I don't give him his due when merited. :cool:

To me, the more damning indictment of Melo than his postseason performances would be his (at least in long stretches) lackadaisical, unimpassioned regular season play, which contributed to Denver constantly having worse-than-they-should records, and ending up at the bottom of the playoff bracket faced with horrible matchups against (all too often) the Spurs and Lakers. What happened after they got there was usually no surprise.

You just saved me the trouble of posting this.

Chronz
05-05-2012, 02:39 PM
I think Tracy McGrady still holds the crown of biggest playoff loser. Carmello Anthony has gotten past the first round. There's no reason to bash on him just because the Knicks made a mistake pairing him up with Amare Stoudemire. That's been about as disastrous as Anthony being paired up with Allen Iverson (although Iverson actually knows how to pass a basketball once in a while).
How can he hold the crown when he actually raises his level of play and gets his team to over achieve whereas Melo has been locked down by the simplest of schemes. I was there in person when Q Ross made him his *****.

Getting past the first round once with a clearly superior team doesn't make him a winner. Only a simpleton focuses solely on team success, if we all thought the way you did, Elvin Hayes would be seen as a better pf than Karl malone and Chuck because of that shiny ring. Instead hes viewed as one of the games most notorious cancers/chokers.

Melo is in the exact same boat, hes more likely to get shut down in the playoffs than he is to rise to the occasion, and no amount of roster support is going to exonerate him of this fact.

Chronz
05-05-2012, 02:41 PM
In fairness to Melo, when he was with the Nuggets, they were at a pretty severe disadvantage in the first round almost every time.

2004 - 8th seed, 1st round loss to Wovles (NBA's 2nd best record, WC finalist, KG MVP)
2005 - 7th seed, 1st round loss to Spurs (NBA champions)
2006 - This was the worst one. 3rd seed, 1st round loss to Clippers. The Nuggs were fielding a pretty crap team, though, w/ Greg Buckner and Fransisco Elson as starters and Earl Boykins as 6th man, and then Kenyon beefing w/ Karl and getting benched for the series.
2007 - 6th seed, 1st round loss to Spurs (NBA champions)
2008 - 8th seed, 1st round loss to Lakers (NBA finalists, best WC record)
2009 - The obvious best one. 2nd seed, WCF loss to Lakers (NBA champions)
2010 - This one was pretty bad. 4th seed, 1st round loss to Jazz (lost in 2nd round).

So really, 2006 and 2010 were Melo's only two playoff outings in Denver where the team did worse than should have been expected. In 3 of the remaining 5 they lost to the eventual champs, and in 1 he was a rookie who turned around a lotto franchise that was lucky to even make the playoffs at all.

I've been plenty critical of Melo here at PSD, but let it never be said that I don't give him his due when merited. :cool:

To me, the more damning indictment of Melo than his postseason performances would be his (at least in long stretches) lackadaisical, unimpassioned regular season play, which contributed to Denver constantly having worse-than-they-should records, and ending up at the bottom of the playoff bracket faced with horrible matchups against (all too often) the Spurs and Lakers. What happened after they got there was usually no surprise.

You just saved me the trouble of posting this.
Is that post suppose to make Melo look good? All it does is reveal hes not a star

Crackadalic
05-05-2012, 02:44 PM
Is that post suppose to make Melo look good? All it does is reveal hes not a star

It proves he isnt a superstar. Just a really good star player with bad playoff luck

It just proves that he face better competition all his years out west. His best chance was against the lakers the year they won a chip. All the other years he played teams that were just better then his and won a chip

Not saying Melo doesnt deserves criticism cause he damn well does but lets not act like its all his fault.

Chronz
05-05-2012, 02:45 PM
Poor Najera, his record being soiled by Carmelo.



Carmelo never lost to a team with a worse record than his in the playoffs. So right now he's in Jordan territory.

Tracy McGrady lost up 3-1. Up 2-0 going home, and twice with HCA.

Didn't they lose to Utah a couple years ago with HCA? The series where Deron owned them
Yup, and Utah was without key players as well. I forget who but they were wrecked come playoff time, they were such a mess that I actually put money on the Nuggs, it would be the last time I counted on Melo

Chronz
05-05-2012, 02:46 PM
Is that post suppose to make Melo look good? All it does is reveal hes not a star

It proves he isnt a superstar. Just a really good star player with bad playoff luck

It just proves that he face better competition all his years out west. His best chance was against the lakers the year they won a chip. All the other years he played teams that were just better then his and won a chip

Not saying Melo doesnt deserves criticism cause he damn well does but lets not act like its all his fault.
Agreed

Sportfan
05-05-2012, 02:49 PM
carmelo is a winner!!!! he's already in the 2nd round in the redraft, and heading back to the WCF!!!!!!!!!

JordansBulls
05-05-2012, 05:29 PM
carmelo is a winner!!!! he's already in the 2nd round in the redraft, and heading back to the WCF!!!!!!!!!

:confused:

mrblisterdundee
05-05-2012, 06:42 PM
How can he hold the crown when he actually raises his level of play and gets his team to over achieve whereas Melo has been locked down by the simplest of schemes. I was there in person when Q Ross made him his *****.

Getting past the first round once with a clearly superior team doesn't make him a winner. Only a simpleton focuses solely on team success, if we all thought the way you did, Elvin Hayes would be seen as a better pf than Karl malone and Chuck because of that shiny ring. Instead hes viewed as one of the games most notorious cancers/chokers.

Melo is in the exact same boat, hes more likely to get shut down in the playoffs than he is to rise to the occasion, and no amount of roster support is going to exonerate him of this fact.

Carmelo Anthony has averaged good numbers in the playoffs. Tracy McGrady was primarily better because he could distribute the ball. Anthony is simply ineffective without a good point guard feeding him - allowing him to play off the ball - which is the case this year. I guess my real mistake is in crowning McGrady the biggest loser of all time. Maybe it's the fact that he was the next best thing after Kobe Bryant.
As for the Nuggets team that went past the first round in 2008-09, I wouldn't say it was better than McGrady's Rockets of 2006-07, which had him and a dominant Yao Ming, along with a bevy of good defenders. It was offense and defense that made those teams, respectively.
In the best year for Anthony's Nuggets(when they also switched point guards in the middle of the season), they were the seventh best offensive team in the league, the eighth best defensively and finished the season at 54-28. In the best year for McGrady's Rockets, they were the third best defensive team in the league, the 15th best offensively and finished the season at 52-30. The Nuggets took down a Dallas team in 2008-09 that was better then the 2006-07 Utah team that the Rockets lost to.
McGrady in 2006-07 averaged 25.3 points, 7.3 assists, 5.9 rebounds, .9 blocks and made 39 percent of his shots. Anthony in 2008-09 averaged 27.2 points, 5.8 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.8 steals and made 45.3 percent of his shots. No amount of whining on McGrady's part is going to exonerate him of the fact that he had just as good of a chance to make it out of the first round as Anthony, and yet it was Anthony who played the best and took his team out of the first and to the third round against the eventual champion Los Angeles Lakers.

Meaze_Gibson
05-05-2012, 06:42 PM
He is just as good a postseason player as Durant..Melo is our generations Dominique Wilkins

mrblisterdundee
05-05-2012, 06:48 PM
He is just as good a postseason player as Durant..Melo is our generations Dominique Wilkins

I hope you're not talking in terms of athleticism, because Anthony's a marshmallow compared to Wilkins.

JayW_1023
05-05-2012, 06:50 PM
Dominique Wilkins in his prime was way better than Melo. Wilkins played in the same era as Bird and MJ in the same conference.

Go figure.

Meaze_Gibson
05-05-2012, 06:56 PM
How can he hold the crown when he actually raises his level of play and gets his team to over achieve whereas Melo has been locked down by the simplest of schemes. I was there in person when Q Ross made him his *****.

Getting past the first round once with a clearly superior team doesn't make him a winner. Only a simpleton focuses solely on team success, if we all thought the way you did, Elvin Hayes would be seen as a better pf than Karl malone and Chuck because of that shiny ring. Instead hes viewed as one of the games most notorious cancers/chokers.

Melo is in the exact same boat, hes more likely to get shut down in the playoffs than he is to rise to the occasion, and no amount of roster support is going to exonerate him of this fact.

There is no player in the NBA has been forced to rise to an insurmountable playoff occasion like Melo has and we both know it. When Chauncey and Amare went down, that was by far one of the worst playoff squads I've ever seen going against an elite defense. Lebron, Wade, Durant, Duncan, Kobe, etc has never lost top players to this degree.

I really just want someone to name me 1 player who lost their top 2 or 3 players in the post season run and was able to put up numbers. Just 1.

Meaze_Gibson
05-05-2012, 07:04 PM
Dominique Wilkins in his prime was way better than Melo. Wilkins played in the same era as Bird and MJ in the same conference.

Go figure.

Dominique Wilkins shoots basically same percentage from field as Melo does with less rebounds and less assists. While Wilkins lost to Bird and MJ..Melo has lost to a prime Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Lebron James & D Wade. All elite Hall of Fame players. The only shot he has had to win was against the Jazz, similar to how Lebron didnt get past the Magic.

Chronz
05-05-2012, 09:30 PM
There is no player in the NBA has been forced to rise to an insurmountable playoff occasion like Melo has and we both know it. When Chauncey and Amare went down, that was by far one of the worst playoff squads I've ever seen going against an elite defense. Lebron, Wade, Durant, Duncan, Kobe, etc has never lost top players to this degree.

Honestly this just sounds like you havent been following Melo up until New York.


I really just want someone to name me 1 player who lost their top 2 or 3 players in the post season run and was able to put up numbers. Just 1.

There are lots of them, they didnt lose those players because they never had them. Like I saw D-Wade will crap to the playoffs and then torch an even better version of that same Celtics team. Ive seen Tmac will his rag tag group in Orlando to a 7th game against the top seeded Pistons. Ive seen MJ drop 60+ despite having NOBODY.

Again nobody expects Melo to win, hell I dont even expect him to play to his average level of play, but to fall off the way he has is as glaring of a sign that hes not a star as there has ever been.

Show me just 1 star who has suffered as much as he has individually come playoff time.

Chronz
05-05-2012, 09:53 PM
Carmelo Anthony has averaged good numbers in the playoffs.
Hes also averaged HORRID numbers in the playoffs. Overall hes been clamped down more often than Ive seen any other superstar.


Tracy McGrady was primarily better because he could distribute the ball. Anthony is simply ineffective without a good point guard feeding him - allowing him to play off the ball - which is the case this year. I guess my real mistake is in crowning McGrady the biggest loser of all time. Maybe it's the fact that he was the next best thing after Kobe Bryant.
Melo had Andre Miller and Iverson before this year, it didnt stop him from getting absolutely clamped down by Quinton Ross and Cuttino Mobley. Thats the thing about Melo, he needs a team to built around him almost perfectly in order for him to be effective, he cant adapt his game to his teammates the way true stars do. Like how often do you hear JVG and co say he has to play more 4, or alongside a stretch 4 in order to be effective, how sad is it that he needs practically everyone on the court to space it out for him on top of running a stagnant offense for him to find angles. How many times did George Karl plea for him to learn and play more like Tmac?. Cmon man, the writing has been on the wall for years, the guy isnt a star PERIOD.



As for the Nuggets team that went past the first round in 2008-09, I wouldn't say it was better than McGrady's Rockets of 2006-07, which had him and a dominant Yao Ming, along with a bevy of good defenders. It was offense and defense that made those teams, respectively.

Well first of all I wont argue against that version of Tmac being on par with Melo, by then injuries wrecked Tmac to the point that he was just as ball dominant as Melo was, and similarly lazy defensively (just not as bad). And while I think Melo had more talent alongside him overall its not that different, Yao was better than either of them, but the thing about Yao is that you can turn him into a defensive liability by going small or spacing him out.
What was normally a strength of Yao's game became a huge liability. The Boozer/Okur frontcourt were simply not the kind of players he could defend adequately. The Rockets were essentially a 3-Man team against a well rounded Utah team, the same Utah team that beat Melos team despite entering the playoffs injured. And those good defenders you spoke of, well Shane Battier had no one to check, a huge portion of his contribution was non-existent because the Jazz didnt deploy a scoring wing. Battier was outplayed by the likes of Matt Harpring (Utahs 6th or 7th best player), he was suppose to be Houstons 3 or 4th best player. Simply put, the Jazz werent the right matchup for that Rockets team.



In the best year for Anthony's Nuggets(when they also switched point guards in the middle of the season), they were the seventh best offensive team in the league, the eighth best defensively and finished the season at 54-28. In the best year for McGrady's Rockets, they were the third best defensive team in the league, the 15th best offensively and finished the season at 52-30. The Nuggets took down a Dallas team in 2008-09 that was better then the 2006-07 Utah team that the Rockets lost to.

Middle of the season? LMFAO they traded for Chauncey at the start of the year, and that Dallas team they beat was definitely not a better team than those Jazz. Not a single credible metric for gauging team strength would agree with you. Also its sad that the only time you can compare Melo to Tmac comes on the downside of his career in which he played through injuries against a horrible matchup that rendered his best teammates liabilities.

SouthSideRookie
05-05-2012, 09:54 PM
Alone on a podium late Thursday night, Carmelo Anthony wrapped himself in comfortable catchphrases and verbal deflections. The Miami Heat had not shut him down. He was simply “missing shots that I normally make.”

The Knicks, down three games to none in the playoffs, were not defeated. “Our confidence is high.”

Anthony’s tone was unwavering, his faith absolute. This is how elite talent speaks, with a self-belief that borders on the absurd and occasionally veers into self-delusion.

The Knicks, who have been outscored by 60 points in the series, are not going to be the first N.B.A. team (out of 100) to overcome a 3-0 deficit. Anthony, who is shooting .344 and has twice as many turnovers (12) as assists (6), is not going to lead them back.

The Knicks will soon exit the postseason, their 12th straight year without winning a series. Their 13-game losing streak is the longest in playoff history.

“I wasn’t here for them losses,” Anthony bristled this week, though he has now been here for seven.

His dismissiveness misses the larger point: the Knicks traded a bounty for Anthony — four starters and three draft picks — to end their decade-long drought, to make May and June matter again at Madison Square Garden. Anthony demanded a trade on the premise that he, along with Amar’e Stoudemire, would turn the Knicks into a reasonable facsimile of the LeBron James-Dwyane Wade Heat.

So far, the Anthony-Stoudemire Knicks have accomplished no more than the Stephon Marbury-Tim Thomas Knicks (swept in 2004).

They have had their misfortune — injuries to Stoudemire and Chauncey Billups in 2011, injuries to Stoudemire and Iman Shumpert in 2012 — but great teams find a way to win. And when they fail, the great players absorb, reflect and rededicate themselves.

Anthony is not the reflective type. He has rarely taken responsibility for his team’s failures, preferring to shift blame toward injuries, coaches or the playbook. But the N.B.A. is a star-driven league, and Anthony — a star by reputation, if not achievement — must eventually confront his own résumé.

In nine postseasons, Anthony is 16-36 — the worst record among active players with at least 50 playoff games. He has won a first-round series only once, in 2009. Since then, he has lost 11 of 13 playoff games. If the Knicks lose Sunday, it will be Anthony’s third time getting swept in five years.

Anthony shot .375 against the Boston Celtics in last year’s sweep. He is shooting miserably against Miami, but he is still taking 30 percent of his team’s field-goal attempts while the offense stagnates and the Heat loads up its defense.

Playing Meloball — in which Anthony dominates the offense, usually in ball-pounding isolation sets — got the Knicks through a critical late-season period, without Stoudemire and Jeremy Lin, with a 9-4 record. Anthony was brilliant in that stretch, shooting high percentages and collecting 30-point games while the defense did the rest.

But we are now seeing the limitations of Meloball. It can win 45 to 50 games (as it did in Denver), but it cannot beat a team as talented and disciplined as the Heat.

Stoudemire hardly saw the ball in the first two games of this series. The Knicks’ 3-point shooters are not getting open looks, because the ball is not moving.

Anthony is a great scorer. He is not yet a great player, because he does not consistently elevate his teammates. He averaged a modest 3.6 assists per game this season, and has a career average of 3.1.

By contrast, consider his close friends from the 2003 draft class: Wade has averaged 6.2 assists per game for his career, and James 6.9. Both Miami stars can control a game through their playmaking alone. The same goes for Kobe Bryant (4.7 career average), when the mood strikes.

In Cleveland, James led his teams deep into the playoffs (including the 2007 finals) despite a lackluster lineup, proving that a selfless star is infinitely more valuable than a single-minded gunner.

Kurt Rambis — a former teammate of Magic Johnson and a former coach of Bryant — put it best in an ESPN podcast, saying of Anthony: “One of the things he has to learn is how to involve his teammates more. There’s a lot more to winning ballgames than just scoring points.”

George Karl and Mike D’Antoni tried in vain to sell Anthony on this virtue, costing Karl years of aggravation and D’Antoni his job.

Initially, D’Antoni asked Anthony to play point forward, giving him the ball control he desired, but with equal responsibility for scoring and playmaking. Anthony accepted the role grudgingly and played it poorly.

Once Lin emerged, the Knicks’ playmaking needs were resolved. But Anthony was uncomfortable in a point guard-dominated offense and admitted as much a week before D’Antoni resigned.

So far, the only offense that seems to please Anthony is one where everyone else passes and he shoots.

“Melo is going to have to raise his game,” Coach Mike Woodson said Friday, suggesting that Anthony needs some growth to escape his personal playoff rut. “He’s got to change that.”

Woodson, an interim coach with no leverage, has necessarily catered to Anthony’s desires. With a little job security, he might not be so forgiving. Phil Jackson, if he were enticed by the Garden’s riches, would certainly demand a more team-oriented game.

Anthony will be 28 this month — old enough to be considered a veteran, young enough to learn. The Knicks will never be an elite team until he matures. And he will never truly be a star until he evolves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/05/sports/basketball/knicks-carmelo-anthony-has-poor-playoff-track-record.html?_r=2&smid=tw-share

Chronz
05-05-2012, 10:08 PM
Mike Woodson is pushing for Carmelo Anthony to be in better shape next season.

“I’ve got to push him to be in better shape when you start the season,” Woodson said Friday. “Everybody’s got to be in better shape. There’s a lot of things that’s got to be changed, not a lot of things, but there’s got to be some changes for this team to really get to the next level.”

AllOut305
05-05-2012, 10:16 PM
His name is Carmelo and the series is not over!

Lol its over kind sir :facepalm:

TylerSL
05-06-2012, 12:19 AM
His name is Carmelo and the series is not over!

This series was over the moment the Knicks locked up the 7 seed.....

blastmasta26
05-06-2012, 04:35 AM
Melo struggles in the playoffs because he doesn't adjust his playing style against elite defense. He has all the talents of a great 1 on 1 scorer, but he forces his shot so much that the Melo iso incites more fear in fans than opponents. You can say that his teams may have been overmatched, but individually his effectiveness has fallen off considerably.

I wouldn't really question his desire to win, because he has been giving it his all this series. But his understanding of the game is questionable. Melo prefers to do it all himself even though his game improves when he has those stretches where he tries to move off of the ball and get easy opportunities.

To call him a "poor man's AI" seems fitting, as you absolutely have to build your team around him but you cannot expect to win with him as your only upper level talent a la Dirk.

Patman
05-06-2012, 05:11 AM
Mike Woodson is pushing for Carmelo Anthony to be in better shape next season.

“I’ve got to push him to be in better shape when you start the season,” Woodson said Friday. “Everybody’s got to be in better shape. There’s a lot of things that’s got to be changed, not a lot of things, but there’s got to be some changes for this team to really get to the next level.”

I think more important would be for Melo learning to move off the ball, that would make life way easier for him. But the guy just made no efforts over his career to improve his game outside of Isolation's and Post-Ups. He will get shutdown next year again if the Knicks employ a similar offense system.

kobebabe
05-06-2012, 09:16 AM
This series was over the moment the Knicks locked up the 7 seed.....

This! They wanted # 7 they got it! You get what you ask for.

Meaze_Gibson
05-06-2012, 02:22 PM
[QUOTE=Chronz;22072870]Honestly this just sounds like you havent been following Melo up until New York.


There are lots of them, they didnt lose those players because they never had them. Like I saw D-Wade will crap to the playoffs and then torch an even better version of that same Celtics team. Ive seen Tmac will his rag tag group in Orlando to a 7th game against the top seeded Pistons. Ive seen MJ drop 60+ despite having NOBODY.

Again nobody expects Melo to win, hell I dont even expect him to play to his average level of play, but to fall off the way he has is as glaring of a sign that hes not a star as there has ever been.

Show me just 1 star who has suffered as much as he has individually come playoff time.[/QUOTE
Wade had a much better team than that knicks playoff Team last year. Mcgrady was never responsible for producing and full time defending the arguable best player in the league. Thplus neither lost their best players. Have wade lose haslem beasley and chalmers then tellbme he doesnt get swept.

I agree he did terrible Against clips. But in his prime he has had more good playoffs than bwd. If you want to exclude tmacs post prime years surely you have to exclude melos preprime years right.

mrblisterdundee
05-06-2012, 04:27 PM
Hes also averaged HORRID numbers in the playoffs. Overall hes been clamped down more often than Ive seen any other superstar.


Melo had Andre Miller and Iverson before this year, it didnt stop him from getting absolutely clamped down by Quinton Ross and Cuttino Mobley. Thats the thing about Melo, he needs a team to built around him almost perfectly in order for him to be effective, he cant adapt his game to his teammates the way true stars do. Like how often do you hear JVG and co say he has to play more 4, or alongside a stretch 4 in order to be effective, how sad is it that he needs practically everyone on the court to space it out for him on top of running a stagnant offense for him to find angles. How many times did George Karl plea for him to learn and play more like Tmac?. Cmon man, the writing has been on the wall for years, the guy isnt a star PERIOD.



Well first of all I wont argue against that version of Tmac being on par with Melo, by then injuries wrecked Tmac to the point that he was just as ball dominant as Melo was, and similarly lazy defensively (just not as bad). And while I think Melo had more talent alongside him overall its not that different, Yao was better than either of them, but the thing about Yao is that you can turn him into a defensive liability by going small or spacing him out.
What was normally a strength of Yao's game became a huge liability. The Boozer/Okur frontcourt were simply not the kind of players he could defend adequately. The Rockets were essentially a 3-Man team against a well rounded Utah team, the same Utah team that beat Melos team despite entering the playoffs injured. And those good defenders you spoke of, well Shane Battier had no one to check, a huge portion of his contribution was non-existent because the Jazz didnt deploy a scoring wing. Battier was outplayed by the likes of Matt Harpring (Utahs 6th or 7th best player), he was suppose to be Houstons 3 or 4th best player. Simply put, the Jazz werent the right matchup for that Rockets team.



Middle of the season? LMFAO they traded for Chauncey at the start of the year, and that Dallas team they beat was definitely not a better team than those Jazz. Not a single credible metric for gauging team strength would agree with you. Also its sad that the only time you can compare Melo to Tmac comes on the downside of his career in which he played through injuries against a horrible matchup that rendered his best teammates liabilities.

I compared Carmelo Anthony and Tracy McGrady in the season where they each had the best team around them, both played really well and had the best chances of advancing - Anthony did, and McGrady didn't. I don't think Anthony was getting locked down on in 2008-09, considering he was scoring more and averaging a higher field goal percentage than McGrady. And I would say McGrady became less ball dominant in his later years, facilitating more to make up for his loss in athleticism.
I'm sorry for handing McGrady the biggest playoff loser crown - he's always had much higher expectations than Anthony, and he's been a significantly better player over his years in the league. But Anthony's nowhere near not being a superstar or being a playoff bust. He doesn't need a team specifically designed around him; he just needs a good point guard to play off of.

Chronz
05-06-2012, 05:20 PM
Wade had a much better team than that knicks playoff Team last year.
Im not seeing how its "MUCH" better, it only looks that way because Wade has a knack for getting his teams to overachieve, besides Melo has also had much better teams than Wade did that year, whilst facing inferior competition and produced nowhere near the results, so whats your point?


Mcgrady was never responsible for producing and full time defending the arguable best player in the league.
You know whats more impressive than defending Bron poorly, defending at a high level. Tmac was the ultimate swiss army knife in his prime, come playoff time he would clamp down. Hes defended a multitude of different players ranging from Dirk, to Baron Davis, to Glenn Robinson, and against Detroit he put in the work to defend whoever got hot, hell on occasion he even anchored his teams zone defenses by playing center. Point being, he played defense to a level Melo has never proven capable of sustaining all while carrying his team offensively. Your excuses for Melo only prove how inferior he truly is. Hell his own coach knew this to be true yet for some reason you think you know more than him? LMFAO get a clue




Thplus neither lost their best players. Have wade lose haslem beasley and chalmers then tellbme he doesnt get swept.

Thats because he didnt have those players to begin with. Melo's team now is no different than what Wade had against the Celtics, and Jermaine played injured so he was basically not playing.


I agree he did terrible Against clips. But in his prime he has had more good playoffs than bwd. If you want to exclude tmacs post prime years surely you have to exclude melos preprime years right.
Just one problem with your theory, statistically speaking there is no difference between that year and any of Melos other years, in fact its one of his best seasons. So if thats your excuse then it only proves Tmac superiority. At the same point in Tmacs career he was already producing at levels Melo could only dream about and was willing flawed teams far beyond their talent level.

More importantly Im not excluding anything, Ive already admitted that version of Tmac was very similar to Melo, in fact if you click on my blog I accuse that version of Tmac as being one of the games most overrated players. He was getting far too much love for middling results. It doesnt change that Tmac in his prime was FAR better than the broke down version, so if thats your basis of comparison its not helping your argument. Its also important to note that Tmac lost Yao the very next year and still played better so Im not seeing the correlation your trying to make for Melo (That not having teammates is some excuse to go ghost).


Point remains Melo would get clamped down many more times at an age when Tmac was tearing **** up. It takes back, knee and shoulder injuries and a steep decline for the 2 to be comparable. Thats your idea of a star? LMFAO

We're done here


I compared Carmelo Anthony and Tracy McGrady in the season where they each had the best team around them, both played really well and had the best chances of advancing - Anthony did, and McGrady didn't. I don't think Anthony was getting locked down on in 2008-09, considering he was scoring more and averaging a higher field goal percentage than McGrady.
Point remains you had to take a SIGNIFICANTLY diminished Tmac facing a harder obstacle than Melo faced that same year in order for you to find a season where you can argue he was a greater player. Thats downright pathetic.


And I would say McGrady became less ball dominant in his later years, facilitating more to make up for his loss in athleticism.

Thats because you have a poor understanding of NBA terminology. Being ball dominant doesnt imply a reluctance to pass, it implies a reluctance to play OFF THE BALL. Im not saying its always a bad thing, it depends on the caliber of teammates but it always requires an understanding of when to pass out of double teams.

Tmac in his later years was handling the ball alot more than he ever did at his best. Even if we pretend you have a point, if what you were saying were true then explain why still lead the league in usage% in Houston.....


I'm sorry for handing McGrady the biggest playoff loser crown - he's always had much higher expectations than Anthony, and he's been a significantly better player over his years in the league. But Anthony's nowhere near not being a superstar or being a playoff bust. He doesn't need a team specifically designed around him; he just needs a good point guard to play off of.
Melo is better than All-Star, and hes not a guy like Glenn Robinson who can be locked down 1 on 1, but thats a FAR cry from being a superstar ala Wade, Kobe, Bron, Tmac in his prime.

Meaze_Gibson
05-06-2012, 06:29 PM
Im not seeing how its "MUCH" better, it only looks that way because Wade has a knack for getting his teams to overachieve, besides Melo has also had much better teams than Wade did that year, whilst facing inferior competition and produced nowhere near the results, so whats your point?


You know whats more impressive than defending Bron poorly, defending at a high level. Tmac was the ultimate swiss army knife in his prime, come playoff time he would clamp down. Hes defended a multitude of different players ranging from Dirk, to Baron Davis, to Glenn Robinson, and against Detroit he put in the work to defend whoever got hot, hell on occasion he even anchored his teams zone defenses by playing center. Point being, he played defense to a level Melo has never proven capable of sustaining all while carrying his team offensively. Your excuses for Melo only prove how inferior he truly is. Hell his own coach knew this to be true yet for some reason you think you know more than him? LMFAO get a clue




Thats because he didnt have those players to begin with. Melo's team now is no different than what Wade had against the Celtics, and Jermaine played injured so he was basically not playing.


Just one problem with your theory, statistically speaking there is no difference between that year and any of Melos other years, in fact its one of his best seasons. So if thats your excuse then it only proves Tmac superiority. At the same point in Tmacs career he was already producing at levels Melo could only dream about and was willing flawed teams far beyond their talent level.

LMFAO

We're done here


Point remains you had to take a SIGNIFICANTLY diminished Tmac facing a harder obstacle than Melo faced that same year in order for you to find a season where you can argue he was a greater player. Thats downright pathetic.


Thats because you have a poor understanding of NBA terminology. Being ball dominant doesnt imply a reluctance to pass, it implies a reluctance to play OFF THE BALL. Im not saying its always a bad thing, it depends on the caliber of teammates but it always requires an understanding of when to pass out of double teams.

Tmac in his later years was handling the ball alot more than he ever did at his best. Even if we pretend you have a point, if what you were saying were true then explain why still lead the league in usage% in Houston.....


Melo is better than All-Star, and hes not a guy like Glenn Robinson who can be locked down 1 on 1, but thats a FAR cry from being a superstar ala Wade, Kobe, Bron, Tmac in his prime.

Melos playoff numbers
2006 clippers (age 21). 22pts 6bds 3as
2007 spurs 26pts 8bd 1 ***
2008 Lakers 23, 9, 2
2009 Western Semis 27pts 6bds 4 assists
2010 Jazz 30pts 8bds 3 ***
2011 Celtics 26pts 10bds 5ass

How is the clips series near his best? How are these not super star numbers. No he is not Mcgrady but youd be crazy to say he's not an elite player.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-06-2012, 06:37 PM
Melo 41!!!

Chronz
05-06-2012, 06:38 PM
Im not seeing how its "MUCH" better, it only looks that way because Wade has a knack for getting his teams to overachieve, besides Melo has also had much better teams than Wade did that year, whilst facing inferior competition and produced nowhere near the results, so whats your point?


You know whats more impressive than defending Bron poorly, defending at a high level. Tmac was the ultimate swiss army knife in his prime, come playoff time he would clamp down. Hes defended a multitude of different players ranging from Dirk, to Baron Davis, to Glenn Robinson, and against Detroit he put in the work to defend whoever got hot, hell on occasion he even anchored his teams zone defenses by playing center. Point being, he played defense to a level Melo has never proven capable of sustaining all while carrying his team offensively. Your excuses for Melo only prove how inferior he truly is. Hell his own coach knew this to be true yet for some reason you think you know more than him? LMFAO get a clue




Thats because he didnt have those players to begin with. Melo's team now is no different than what Wade had against the Celtics, and Jermaine played injured so he was basically not playing.


Just one problem with your theory, statistically speaking there is no difference between that year and any of Melos other years, in fact its one of his best seasons. So if thats your excuse then it only proves Tmac superiority. At the same point in Tmacs career he was already producing at levels Melo could only dream about and was willing flawed teams far beyond their talent level.

LMFAO

We're done here


Point remains you had to take a SIGNIFICANTLY diminished Tmac facing a harder obstacle than Melo faced that same year in order for you to find a season where you can argue he was a greater player. Thats downright pathetic.


Thats because you have a poor understanding of NBA terminology. Being ball dominant doesnt imply a reluctance to pass, it implies a reluctance to play OFF THE BALL. Im not saying its always a bad thing, it depends on the caliber of teammates but it always requires an understanding of when to pass out of double teams.

Tmac in his later years was handling the ball alot more than he ever did at his best. Even if we pretend you have a point, if what you were saying were true then explain why still lead the league in usage% in Houston.....


Melo is better than All-Star, and hes not a guy like Glenn Robinson who can be locked down 1 on 1, but thats a FAR cry from being a superstar ala Wade, Kobe, Bron, Tmac in his prime.

Melos playoff numbers
2006 clippers (age 21). 22pts 6bds 3as
2007 spurs 26pts 8bd 1 ***
2008 Lakers 23, 9, 2
2009 Western Semis 27pts 6bds 4 assists
2010 Jazz 30pts 8bds 3 ***
2011 Celtics 26pts 10bds 5ass

How is the clips series near his best? How are these not super star numbers. No he is not Mcgrady but youd be crazy to say he's not an elite player.
I never said the clips series was his best, I said that was one of his finest seasons statistically as in all year.

And its easy to see how they aren't superstar numbers, the reason you can't is because you ignore per possession efficiency.

And for him to be elite, you would have to expand the definition to include alot of players, which pretty much defeats the purpose of the word.

tp13baby
05-06-2012, 06:52 PM
He only lost in 1 series of which he was supposed to win. While his playoff shooting percentages aren't great, neither are durant's. And to those he say his teams were stacked, in his prime he has gone against Lakers, Spurs, Boston, Heat (probably), and Utah. 4 of those 5 have been champs within this past decade while the other team has a top 10 coach of all time. Biggest Loser?..hardly. Unluckiest Playoff Performer is more deserving

Superstars are supposed to do more than he does.

So Unluckiest playoff performer? We can put the superstar talk to rest cause he definitely can't be compared to LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Durant, even Dwight. He had a solid supporting cast in Denver. And still can't figure it out with an even better one in NY. He is a good player in the league. Far from superstar, or even great in my opinion.

tp13baby
05-06-2012, 06:54 PM
I never said the clips series was his best, I said that was one of his finest seasons statistically as in all year.

And its easy to see how they aren't superstar numbers, the reason you can't is because you ignore per possession efficiency.

And for him to be elite, you would have to expand the definition to include alot of players, which pretty much defeats the purpose of the word.

Thank you. People look at points and don't factor in anything else. For you to actually have a thoughtful post. Applause. :clap:

tp13baby
05-06-2012, 07:02 PM
Don't remind me of the WCF series versus the Lakers. If we could throw an inbounds pass, we may of went to the finals...

Meaze_Gibson
05-06-2012, 07:42 PM
Superstars are supposed to do more than he does.

So Unluckiest playoff performer? We can put the superstar talk to rest cause he definitely can't be compared to LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Durant, even Dwight. He had a solid supporting cast in Denver. And still can't figure it out with an even better one in NY. He is a good player in the league. Far from superstar, or even great in my opinion.

So he was supposed to Steal a series from a prime Kobe, Tim Duncan, or Miami and Boston? They are the only teams Melo faced in his prime.THe only series they shouldve won was the series against jazz annd he performed well in that series.

Durant? Only time he played an elite team was the Lakers, Mavs which they lost. Who has he had to guard? This is the second postseason Westbrook and others have shown him up, on his own squad, yet he is a superstar but Melo isn't? With the amount of turnovers, and bad decision making he is a superstar

I guess to me you have the greats of a generation, the superstars of a generation, the all stars, and the role players. Melo is not a once in a generation player, like Lebron Wade etc, I do think of him though as a superstar though because he leads teams to playoffs, is not 1 dimensional player (good rebounder), and generally performs well when he gets there.

Meaze_Gibson
05-06-2012, 07:59 PM
Thank you. People look at points and don't factor in anything else. For you to actually have a thoughtful post. Applause. :clap:

Sorry bruh these dont come off as thoughtful but I didn't look at points. I look at rebounds, turnovers, minutes, other teammate contributions, and more importantly the team of which you are playing against. Melo is not a point forward, he is a small forward. I don't expect him to get 5 assists the same way I didn't expect Paul Pierce in his prime to get 5. In fact, if you take away KG and Ray, How are Pierce and Anthony different playoff wise? Yet, I wouldn't dare say Paul was not a superstar player before they arrived.

I'm thinking, just don't see how losing to Elite Teams in your prime, constitute into becoming a Loser rather than unlucky.

NY_Heartbreak
05-06-2012, 08:18 PM
what the ****

knickfan33
05-06-2012, 08:21 PM
If a mod thinks the title is a baiting title please feel free to change it

The guy is overrated and the stats do not lie

source : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303916904577373974101773782.html

Players with lowest playoff %

1.Carmello Anthony 16-36 .307
2.Mookie Blaylock 18-36 .333
3.Eduardo Najera 20-39 .339


There's not many top 5 players or all time greats on that list.

LOL... yeah do those numbers tell you how many times he was knocked out in the first round by the team that went on to win title... lakers, spurs?... your not talking about a guy losing to 8 seeds year after year... get off his nuts

knickfan33
05-06-2012, 08:26 PM
lol look at my crystal ball... i havent posted here in over a year cause the nab forum is such a joke...

STA_PLAR
05-06-2012, 08:27 PM
Haters gonnn Hate...It's not Melo that sucks...It's because he is in a Knick uniform that he has started to suck.

When he was in Denver people were riding him like he was the best scorer. Too much NY, Chi, Miami and LA hate on prosports. Move to a big city losers..


hahahahahahahhahaha

GiantsSwaGG
05-06-2012, 08:53 PM
Can we please not get carried away :facepalm: again Carmelo is a superstar, but he's not elite