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View Full Version : 2012 NBA ReDraft 1st Round - #4) Atlanta Hawks vs. #5) Phildelphia 76ers



KnicksorBust
04-30-2012, 09:23 PM
Welcome to the 2012 NBA ReDraft voting process. The redraft is exactly how it sounds. The rosters of every NBA team are cleared and then drafted again from scratch. Posters from the site draft full rosters under a salary cap and then there is a voting process to make the playoffs. We are now in the playoffs and the head to head matchups have begun. Please remember to vote for the roster and write-up you believe would win a 7 game series and leave any of your personal preference for the real teams out of your decision. Thank you and enjoy the playoffs!

Hawks:
pg: Darren Collison/Nate Robinson
sg: JJ Redick/Gerald Henderson/Damien Wilkins
sf: Lebron James/Tracy McGrady/Cartier Martin
pf: Ryan Anderson/Amir Johnson
c: DeAndre Jordan/Desagna Diop

76ers:
Isaiah Thomas--Baron Davis--Suck
Thabo Sef--Willie Green
Danny Granger--Roger Mason
Ilyasova--Brandan Wright--Gustavo Ayon
Marc Gasol--Brandan Wright--Jan Vesely


I'd like to congratulate the Hawks on making the playoffs. Good luck and we look forward to a competitive series. If you do not have time to read the full write-up please read the summary section.

76ers Offense: The 76ers offense might not seem like it has that dominating #1 like a Lebron but it does have many things going for it and its offense will be tougher to stop then you think. We can run a variety of different plays and we have excellent spacing. And if you like great teamwork, this team is for you. Remember, the Mavs beat the Heat last year and won the NBA Finals due to great teamwork and some historically awesome spacing. (Need proof? Check (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=single&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=1986&year_max=&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_overtime=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=fg3&order_by_asc=&offset=0) this out (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=&year_max=&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=Y&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_overtime=&c1stat=fg3a&c1comp=gt&c1val=200&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=fg3_pct))

Our offense is going to start with Marc Gasol, who is one of the better low post threats in the league (he ranks 40th in points per play on post ups and takes care of the ball only giving it away on 9% of his post up possessions). Marc is skilled in the left block where he can score with either a running hook or a turnaround baseline J. In addition, hes also a skilled passer. And because of the shooters we have around Marc, he should have an open court to either pass out to an open 3 point shooter or to a cutting man. More importantly though, Marc will have a lot of room to work in the low post because of the excellent spacing that our other 4 players provide him. Isaiah, Thabo, Granger and Ily have all been capable 3 point shooters this year and both Isaiah and Thabo have been especially effective on the corner 3s (44% on corner 3s for Isaiah, 41% on corner 3s for Thabo). Granger has not hit the corner 3 as well this year but over the last 2 years, he's hitting 37.6% of his corner 3s. With 3 different players capable of hitting that corner 3 (which not all players can hit but is the most efficient 3 point shot (http://www.82games.com/locations.htm)), it gives the 76ers the flexibility to have different arrangements in spacing. Ilyasova can hit from either wing which will bring Ryan Anderson out and leave DeAndre alone on Marc with the opposing guards leaving their man at their own risk.

The reason this will work against the Hawks is because DeAndre is not that great of a post defender having given up .83 points per play which ranks 131st in the league. And its not like hes been much better in the previous 2 years, having given up over .8 points per play in each of the last 2 years. Marc will be able to score on DeAndre unless the Hawks double and should they double, Marc will find the open 3 point shooter with his superior passing skills.

Speaking of our 3 point shooters, for this year: Isaiah was a 38% 3 point shooter; Ilyasova was a 45.5% 3 point shooter and ranked 2nd in the NBA in 3 pt%, Granger was a 38.1% 3 point shooter and while Thabo has not been known as a great 3 point shooter, hes improved drastically this year and is shooting 43.7% on 3s this year (including a 1-1 showing in Saturdays playoff game). While some people might choose to ignore it, the fact remains that hes taken over 70 3 point attempts and made over 43% of them. Hes improved his shooting and you still have to guard him at that 3 point line. In addition, we have another 3 point shooter off our bench in Willie Green, who ranks 7th in the NBA in 3 pt% with a 44.2% 3pt%. Finally, while Baron Davis has been a disappointment and has not shot the 3 ball well overall, he can hit the 3 on Spot Ups, hitting 42.5% of his 3s this year in Spot Up situations. And with the way our offense is designed, hell have many opportunities to Spot Up and shoot. Since he can do that, hes still another 3 point threat. And since spotting up and hitting shots is going to be an important aspect of our offense, it is worth noting that we have 4 different players who rank in the top 100 in points per play on Spot Ups.

Marc also might be the most skilled passer in the game from the high post. And the way we plan on taking advantage of this is by having our guards/Granger cut to the basket where Marc can find them. DeAndre will be forced to guard Marc at the high post because of his ability to hit the mid-range J (38.2% on jump shots 16-23 feet is exactly league average, 41.2% on jump shots 10-15 feet vs. league average of 38.4% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=gasolma01&year_id=2012&shot_type=JUMP_SHOT)) and Ilyasova can clean up the glass should the guards/Granger miss (Ilyasova is 7th in the league in ORB%). However, with no DeAndre near the basket, our guards/Granger should have an easy time finishing.

And because movement and cuts will be an important part of our offense, you should know that we have many players who rank in the top 100 in the NBA in cuts to the basket (Brandan Wright ranks 89th in cuts, Gustavo ranks 48th in cuts, Ilyasova ranks 40th in cuts while Granger is the 15th best player in the league on cuts to the basket). While our guards do not have enough plays to qualify on cuts to the basket, Thabo was a good cutter last year finishing with a very respectable 1.2 points per play on cuts to the basket and Isaiah has a good 1.11 points per play on cuts. So many of our players are very efficient at finishing when they cut to the basket. With Marc being an excellent passer out of the high post, we should be able to get a lot of points this way.

Additionally, we can also run the Pick & Roll, with either Isaiah or Danny Granger serving as the ball handler (Isaiah ranks 4th in the NBA in points per play with a 57.3% eFG% on P&R ball handler situations and Granger ranks in the top 75 in PPP on P&R ball handler situations having run 86 plays as the ball handler) and either Ilyasova, Marc Gasol or even Granger can serve as the Roll man (Ily is top 100 in P&R roll man, Marc is 39th in P&R roll man and Granger has run 26 plays as the roll man ranking 64th in points per play). What is even better about our P&R is that while each player ranks among the 100 best in P&R, they all do a good job of taking care of the ball in these situations as well. Gasol, Granger and Ilyasova are all above average in TOV% in P&R situations while Isaiah is only slightly below average.

The last type of play we can run is an Iso for Isaiah. There are a couple of different reasons this play will work. First, Isaiah has been very good this year on Isos, scoring 0.92 points per play which ranks 25th in the NBA. And despite him being a rookie, hes actually been very good at taking care of the ball on isos with a TOV% of just 9.7% (compared to league average of 13.8%). Additionally, his counterpart Darren Collison has been very poor on isolation defense, ranking 261st in PPP allowed on isos. On top of that, Collison doesnt even force turnovers in isolation situations (only a 5.5% TOV% forced by Collison). Plus, its not like the Hawks would be able to switch and put Redick on Isaiah instead as Isaiah would blow by Redick (and his 160th ranked isolation D). And if the Hawks get tired of seeing Isaiah blowing by their guards and put Lebron on Isaiah, well, well just use Granger in isolation situations as he also ranks top 100 in PPP on isolations. The Hawks only have 1 player who is good on isolation defense while the 76ers have 2 players who are good at scoring on isolations. One of these guys is bound to have a mismatch and well exploit it.

In addition, Id like to also point out that we have quite a few players who are very efficient in transition. Isaiah, Ilyasova, Willie Green and Marc Gasol are all top 100 in points per play in transition and Brandan Wright ranks 14th in the NBA in PPP in transition. Wright also doesnt have a single turnover in 45 transition plays.

Finally, Id like to wrap up our offensive section with a few different points. First, while Lebron is an excellent one on one defender, hes been VERY poor on guarding Spot Up shooters this year (giving up over 1 PPP and ranks 265th in the league). Granger has been top 100 in Spot Up shots this year, so he should be able to drill a couple Spot Up 3s over Lebron. In addition, both Collison and JJ have been poor on guarding Spot Up shooters too. Second, while many will accuse us of lacking a go to scorer in crunch time, let me just say that Danny Granger is that guy- he ranked 6th in the NBA this year in points per 48 mins in clutch time and had a 63.3% TS%/55% eFG% in the clutch. Granger also ranked 2nd in the league in Clutch Simple ORtg and 5th in Clutch Adjusted ORtg. (http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2230) In addition, both Isaiah and Ersan are in the top 40 for points per 48 minutes in clutch time. So even with Lebron being a great defender, we have other options. And unlike most teams, we will not stop running our offense in clutch time. Well continue to use the plays that were successful for us throughout the game and well continue to feed Marc the ball in the post.

Lastly, Id like to point out that both Isaiah and Ersan have been very effective since getting inserted into the starting lineup. For both of them, its been about 30 games, which is a decent sample size for a full season. For Isaiah, hes averaging: 14.8 ppg, 5.4 ast, 1 stl, 40.6% 3pt%, 84.1% FT%, 60.2% TS%, 25.1% Ast%, 14.0% TOV%, 19.5 USG%, 120 ORtg. And for Ersan, hes averaging: 16.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 48% 3pt% (about 74 3PTA), 80.5% FT%, 62.6% TS%, 58.7% eFG%, 16.7% TRB%, 20.9% DRB%,1.3% STL%, 1.8% BLK%, 9.1% TOV%, 20.3 USG%, 125 ORtg, 105 DRtg.

Defense:

Ill try to keep this shorter. You guys should be able to see that we have a great defense but heres one of the main problems with the Hawks: other than Lebron, no one on that team can really create. The evidence pointing to that: Lebron is the only player with over 100 isolation plays on the Hawks. At least when Lebron was with the Cavs, he had Mo who could create his own shot (he had 170 iso plays that year). This Hawks team doesnt even have a player of Mos caliber. That is putting a lot of pressure on Lebron to do all the work. He basically needs to play the full 48 minutes because when he comes out, wheres the offense going to come from? The Hawks do not have a low post threat (Anderson is a spot up 3 point shooter and DeAndre has no post game and the few times he does try, hes shooting 29%) and Redick is a spot up shooter. Collison is the closest they have to another person who can create on his own and as I mentioned earlier, he doesnt even have 100 isolation plays this year. Hes been more of a P&R player. He also runs more plays in transition and spot up situations than Isos. Unfortunately for the Hawks, while his 2nd most # of plays have come in transition, hes not been particularly good in transition ranking in the 200s in PPP in transition. That sucks for the Hawks since Lebron is one of the best transition players in the game.

From looking at the Hawks, I can tell that their game will be based around Lebron driving and dishing to open 3 point shooters. And both Redick and Anderson are some of the best 3 point shooters in the game. However, Collison isnt. Hes only shooting 36% from the 3 point line and while thats not bad, its not that great either. In addition, its not like he gets any better when hes spotting up and shooting as hes hitting about 36% of his 3s in that situation as well. So much for driving and kicking out to Collison to spot up for a 3, hes not that good at it. As for Anderson and Redick, yes, theyre great 3 point shooters and are deadly on those spot up shots. However, Thabo Sefolosha is one of the best defenders in the NBA at guarding Spot Up shooters (ranks 34th). His opponents are hitting only 25.6% of their 3s when spotting up against Thabo. In addition, hes excellent on defense when coming off screens (ranks 7th in the NBA) as hes allowing only a 27.6% eFG% off screens. Of course, most of Redicks offense (over 50% of his offense) comes off those 2 types of plays- screens and spot up shots.

Finally, while Ilyasova isnt the greatest at defending Spot Up shooters, both Brandan Wright and Gustavo Ayon have been very good this year at defending Spot Up shots (Wright ranks 52nd against Spot Up shots while Ayon ranks 30th). And of course, a majority of Ryan Andersons plays come on Spot Up shots (most frequent play type with 324 Spot Up shots on the season). Additionally, Ilyasova has outperformed Ryan Anderson in their matchups together. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=ilyaser01&p2=anderry01)

Bench:
We have 4 key bench players in Baron Davis, Willie Green, Brandan Wright and Gustavo Ayon. Each of them brings something to the table. While Davis is having a poor season, as mentioned earlier, hes been a good spot up shooter this year and hes also been a very good/willing passer (ranking 13th in assist ratio out of 67 qualified PGs). Defensively, hes done a good job forcing turnovers on isolation and P&R plays. Willie Green brings some excellent spacing off the bench, can hit the corner 3, is good in the P&R, spotting up, coming off screens and in transition. On defense, hes been good at guarding the P&R, guarding against shooters coming off screens and is holding opponents to 33.3% on Spot Up 3s. Brandan Wright brings top notch offense, ranking 2nd in the NBA in points per play. Offensively, hes also 17th in Post Ups, 7th in P&R as the roll man, 87th in cuts, 19th in PPP on offensive rebounds and 14th in transition points per play. And as mentioned earlier, he can guard spot up shooters on defense. Finally, Gustavo is 14th in the NBA in PPP on P&R roll man situations and is 48th in cuts to the basket. More importantly, hes solid defensively- ranking 59th overall in PPP and specifically is good at guarding spot up shooters (30th) and is top 100 in guarding Post Ups and Isos.

As you can see, our bench brings different things to the table and each of these 4 players will be used both offensively and defensively to help our team. On the other hand, the Hawks bench is pretty thin as Diop brings almost nothing except for blocks (hes ranked 367 in overall D and 228 in Post Up D). While Amir is a good defender, hes way to small to guard our other bigs as hes only 6-9. The Hawks are pretty thin up front and we have some quality bigs. Thatll be a problem for them.

Offensive Summary
So to summarize, we have many different types of plays we can run. Well post Marc up in the low block and let him go to work. Hell either score on an average at best post defender in DeAndre or hell pass it out to an open 3 point shooter. Well also use Marc in the high post and get points off cuts to the basket using Marcs superior passing skills or let him shoot that mid-range jumper that he hits at an above average rate. Well also run the P&R with either Isaiah or Granger serving as the ball handler with Ilyasova, Marc or Granger serving as the Roll Man. And finally well run some isos for either Isaiah or Granger depending on who Lebron decides to guard (we assume Lebron will guard Isaiah at some point after Isaiah constantly blows by/torches the poor defending Collison). Also, should the situation present itself, we can get out and run as we have 5 different players who rank in the top 100 in points per play in transition.

Defensive Summary:
So to sum up our defense, the Hawks are overly reliant on Lebron as hes the only person who can create on their team. We also matchup well with the Hawks shooters as Thabo is one of the best defenders in the NBA on spot up shots and screens while that is pretty much all Redick does. And both Ayon and Wright have been very good at guarding spot up shooters as well. Collison is also not a very good fit for the Hawks since hes not that great of a spot up shooter, isnt very good in transition and has a high TOV% on the P&R plays that he does run well. Finally, Marc Gasol is the anchor of a Memphis team that ranks 7th in DRtg in real life. Hes also 70th in guarding the P&R, 52nd guarding spot up shooters and 18th in the NBA guarding isolations. So hes been a good defender even out on the perimeter, as well as the anchor of the Memphis team in the paint. Also, Id like to mention that in the 123 minutes that Granger and Lebron have been on the court together, Granger has held Lebron to 23.4 points per 36 minutes (2.6 points less than average) and a 55.4% TS%, which is 5.1% below his average TS% on the season. So while Lebron will get his, Granger has done a good job slowing him down.


Atlanta Hawks

Lebron driving the lane and kicking it out to JJ Redick and Ryan Anderson sounds phenomenal to me. Add to that: Collison is a pretty solid point guard. He will not be handling the ball as much as a normal point guard would, but his ability to distribute, drive, and handle the ball will at times take pressure off of Lebron. Redick and Anderson are automatic from the perimeter. DeAndre Jordan will catchy plenty of alley oops when Lebron draws a double team. Lebron is the best player in the league, and it's not very close. On both sides of the ball he has more of an impact than anyone (maybe ever) has.

Matchups:

PG: Collison vs. Thomas

Thomas is putting up some big numbers this year, but a lot of that has to do with being on a mediocre Kings team. If I'm going to be honest, this matchup is close to a push. Collison has regressed a bit, but is still a solid starting point guard. He played decently in the playoffs last season, so I give him the edge only for the playoff experience. He's quick enough to stick on Thomas, and has 3 inches on him, and the ability to out-muscle him.

SG: Redick vs. Sefolosha

Redick is shooting .418% on threes while shooting 4.1 a game. That's pretty ridiculous. He is going to get his threes, and he is going to score very efficiently. Sefolosha is an absolute non-factor offensively, and has been pretty average defensively for his standards (although, still admittedly, damn good). This matchup is a win for Redick.

SF: James vs. Granger

Well, Lebron wins any matchup so this isn't a fair assessment, but, I will pound it into your skulls even more why our team would dominate this series. Why yes, Lebron is shooting .531% while shooting around 19 FG's per game. And dishing 6.2 assists per game (2 assists more than the 76ers starting point guard). Rebounding about 8 times per game. Shooting .362 from 3.. Yeah, this Lebron fella is better than anyone. He really makes our team un-fair. Granger on the other hand, is having his worst season since his sophomore campaign, and his overall worst shooting season. Granger isn't playing very well, and is a big reason the Pacers might never see that "next level" as a team.

PF: Anderson vs. Ilyasova

This may be the weak spot of our defense, but that doesn't worry me too much considering Ilyasova is anything but a "banger". Ilyasova's been damn efficient this year, but Anderson has been much more so. Anderson is a pretty mediocre-bad defensive player, but has better defensive statistics than Ilyasova does.. and scores more, is a better shooter, a good enough rebounder (although worse than Ilyasova in that regard.) This matchup is a close one, but definitely one I see Anderson winning with Lebron on his team.

C: Jordan vs. Gasol

Yeah, there's no denying Gasol wins this matchup. Gasol is an awesome player on both sides. Jordan will give him enough of a fit for us to win this series, though. And will get a couple transition dunks/pick and roll scores from Collison/Lebron.

Bench:

I do like this 76ers team bench quite a bit, but I firmly believe our bench is better. Baron Davis is a shell of his former self. Nate Robinson for us scores as much as Isaiah Thomas does and assists at the same rate. Gerald Henderson is scoring 15 per game off the bench. Amir Johnson is a banger, and will give any big man fits off our bench. He's also pretty decent offensively, and great on the boards. McGrady is nowhere near what he once was, but is still a pretty good bench guy (especially being the 4th man off our bench). He shoots pretty decently. Diop isn't the greatest, but he can block shots, and come off the bench as a big tall body. Cartier Martin has only played 16 games, but averages around 9 ppg and is an awesome spot up shooter.

Gameplan: against this 76ers team, I think our best option is to run and gun. James, Collison, Robinson can burn almost anybody for easy transition buckets. Redick, Martin and Anderson can spot up on the wing and knock down ANY open shot. Jordan, and Henderson are athletic freaks and will surely be a force above the rim.

I do like the team the 76ers have assembled, but with all due respect to the GM's, I really think our team is much better because of Lebron's ability to create. I think our team was underseeded, and will likely beat any team we matchup against. With that said, good luck to the 76ers.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-30-2012, 09:37 PM
I hope people do read our whole write-up and not just the summaries. I feel like I covered almost all angles.

Mile High Champ
04-30-2012, 09:41 PM
As much as I like the Lebron-Anderson duo, I think the 76ers have all the right answers to help stop Lebron. Great write up PSK, a pleasure to read.

Reyes6
04-30-2012, 09:43 PM
Well, LeBron is a great player and can carry a team. But this supporting cast is not strong enough in my opinion to beat the Sixers.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-30-2012, 09:44 PM
As much as I like the Lebron-Anderson duo, I think the 76ers have all the right answers to help stop Lebron. Great write up PSK, a pleasure to read.

Thanks MHC. Glad you read it, hopefully others follow suit :)

Catfish1314
04-30-2012, 10:05 PM
LeBron is really the only guy on Atlanta's team who they can consistently rely on to break down a defense. Their floor-spacing and perimeter shooting is outstanding, but it will only take them so far.

The Sixers have a more balanced, diverse offense and their defense on paper is vastly superior both inside and out. Their point guard combo of Isaiah Thomas and Baron Davis has also really grown on me. I think the sharp rookie and the crafty vet complement each other very well.

Eagles4Lyfe
04-30-2012, 11:04 PM
Nothing much I can say its all been covered in PSK's write up lol.
Like the Sixers here, Hawks have a sexi 3-5 but not only a humangous advantage to put them over the top and their backcourt is just atrocious and not feasible IMO so the Sixers can throw so many guys at lebron to try slowing him down.

Corey
04-30-2012, 11:14 PM
I like the Lebron's more.

They did a good job surrounding Lebron with shooters. Shot blocker in the paint, solid rebounders, shooters..I like it.

Mane
04-30-2012, 11:37 PM
lol

VCaintdead17
04-30-2012, 11:37 PM
Baron has definitely changed his playing style this year, and it's worked pretty well for him. I think the Davis/IT combo would work just fine at the point guard position.


And I'm a little disappointed in Mane's write up. :(

Maybe it's because PSK's was so good.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-30-2012, 11:42 PM
I like the Lebron's more.

They did a good job surrounding Lebron with shooters. Shot blocker in the paint, solid rebounders, shooters..I like it.

Did you read our write-up? Yeah, they have Lebron but other then him, no one on that team can create their own shot. So basically Lebron has to play 48 minutes for that team because no one else can get offense on their own. As I mentioned in my write-up, even Cleveland Mo was more of a creator than Collison as he at least had 170 isolation plays in 09-10. This Hawks team has no one who's had more than 100 iso plays all year other than Lebron.

DeAndre is a shot blocker but he's not much of a post defender (average at best), we have defenders who are good at fighting off screens and contesting spot up shooters (Thabo specifically). We can also throw many different defenders at Lebron (Granger and Thabo specifically).

And your reasoning (or lack there of) for picking the Hawks wasn't very good. I mean there was nothing in your post about the matchups.

Mane
04-30-2012, 11:48 PM
i spent no more than 5 minutes on mine

ugafan
04-30-2012, 11:56 PM
I appreciate the time PSK put into the writeup but he's cherry-picking stats out the *** and there's nothing that annoys me more.

ugafan
04-30-2012, 11:57 PM
Also, just wanted to say that the building of the Hawks team would not be possible without the help of our 2 Co-co-GMs: Modwheat and Scheck.

Catfish1314
04-30-2012, 11:57 PM
It's not like they're irrelevant stats.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-30-2012, 11:58 PM
The Hawks are also thin in their front court. Diop is just a big body but isn't a particularly good defender. Opponents have a 22.4 PER against Diop and his synergy #'s are nothing impressive either (ranked 368th overall and poor post defender). So is the 6-9 Amir Johnson going to come in for DeAndre and guard the paint? And since DeAndre doesn't even play 30 minutes a game (27.2 mpg), there's no way you can ask him to play for 40+ minutes. And there's no way you can have Amir guard Gasol.

Sadds The Gr8
04-30-2012, 11:59 PM
woah wtf...it was 10-1 when I was last in here

Ebbs
04-30-2012, 11:59 PM
I honestly will mull it over but I truly feel Hawks are the better team.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 12:01 AM
woah wtf...it was 10-1 when I was last in here

Yeah, I know. :sigh:

The_Jamal
05-01-2012, 12:03 AM
Tough, tough match-up. Not having a shot-creator outside of LeBron doesn't bother me though. LeBron can play 38-42 minutes a night leave 10 a maximum of 10 LeBronless minutes. I don't really see how that make a big difference in the series.

I am inclined to vote for the Hawks though. LeBron has a great assortment of shooting role players around him that are at least average defensively. I'll wait a bit longer to vote

Scheck
05-01-2012, 12:04 AM
Also, just wanted to say that the building of the Hawks team would not be possible without the help of our 2 Co-co-GMs: Modwheat and Scheck.

:love:

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 12:08 AM
Tough, tough match-up. Not having a shot-creator outside of LeBron doesn't bother me though. LeBron can play 38-42 minutes a night leave 10 a maximum of 10 LeBronless minutes. I don't really see how that make a big difference in the series.

I am inclined to vote for the Hawks though. LeBron has a great assortment of shooting role players around him that are at least average defensively. I'll wait a bit longer to vote

6 minutes a game is a lot though. Look what happened in the last 6 minutes of that Clippers-Grizz game yesterday. We could outscore the Hawks by 10-15 in that stretch and would just have to play them close to even the rest of the game, which I think is definitely possible.

Mane
05-01-2012, 12:08 AM
i hope PSK's team wins and beats the **** out of everyone else, for the record.

The_Jamal
05-01-2012, 12:10 AM
6 minutes a game is a lot though. Look what happened in the last 6 minutes of that Clippers-Grizz game yesterday. We could outscore the Hawks by 10-15 in that stretch and would just have to play them close to even the rest of the game, which I think is definitely possible.

Yea, but it's not like the team is absolute rubbish without LeBron on the floor. Collison/Reddick/McGrady/Anderson/Jordan is more than capable of holding a lead for the 8-10 minutes LeBron doesn't play. Also, I'd imagine he wouldn't get more than a few minutes at a time out of the game.

Scheck
05-01-2012, 12:29 AM
I would say that the Hawks should win, but honestly, after watching the past two playoff games for Lebron with the Heat I think Lebron is way too soft. Ha maybe I'd vote for the Hawks if it was "Vote for whoever is SOFTER, like fuklen COTTON"

Corey
05-01-2012, 12:31 AM
Did you read our write-up? Yeah, they have Lebron but other then him, no one on that team can create their own shot. So basically Lebron has to play 48 minutes for that team because no one else can get offense on their own. As I mentioned in my write-up, even Cleveland Mo was more of a creator than Collison as he at least had 170 isolation plays in 09-10. This Hawks team has no one who's had more than 100 iso plays all year other than Lebron.

DeAndre is a shot blocker but he's not much of a post defender (average at best), we have defenders who are good at fighting off screens and contesting spot up shooters (Thabo specifically). We can also throw many different defenders at Lebron (Granger and Thabo specifically).

And your reasoning (or lack there of) for picking the Hawks wasn't very good. I mean there was nothing in your post about the matchups.

1) Yes, I read both writeups.
2) I dont want to read a novel when voting on re-draft threads.
3) You can write the most amazing piece of literature in the history of mankind...It doesn't make your team better than his in my eyes.

You wrote a better writeup than him. Nice. I still like his team more.

Your number one option is Danny Granger. Gasol, Ilyasova, and Sefolosha are role players. You're starting a rookie point guard. I dont like it.

He has the best player in the world and they surrounded him with players that suit his talent. I think their team is better.

ugafan
05-01-2012, 12:36 AM
I would say that the Hawks should win, but honestly, after watching the past two playoff games for Lebron with the Heat I think Lebron is way too soft. Ha maybe I'd vote for the Hawks if it was "Vote for whoever is SOFTER, like fuklen COTTON"

:laugh2:

If we lose by >2 votes, I'm going to kill you probably.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 12:43 AM
1) Yes, I read both writeups.
2) I dont want to read a novel when voting on re-draft threads.
3) You can write the most amazing piece of literature in the history of mankind...It doesn't make your team better than his in my eyes.

You wrote a better writeup than him. Nice. I still like his team more.

Your number one option is Danny Granger. Gasol, Ilyasova, and Sefolosha are role players. You're starting a rookie point guard. I dont like it.

He has the best player in the world and they surrounded him with players that suit his talent. I think their team is better.

My write-up wasn't much longer than MHCs.

Gasol's impact on the game is probably greater than you realize which is why you're under the misconception that he's a role player.

But at least you gave better reasons this time around though.

VCaintdead17
05-01-2012, 12:44 AM
Marc Gasol is a role player? :eyebrow:

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 12:44 AM
i hope PSK's team wins and beats the **** out of everyone else, for the record.

Well then screw voting in the GM section, you should vote for us :laugh2:

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 12:49 AM
Marc Gasol is a role player? :eyebrow:

Gasol's impact is underestimated unfortunately. People don't appreciate the fact that he's one of the better screen setters in the game or some of the other intangibles he brings.

Hence his RAPM has been very good over the last 3 seasons (especially this year).

felixng2012
05-01-2012, 12:49 AM
1) Yes, I read both writeups.
2) I dont want to read a novel when voting on re-draft threads.
3) You can write the most amazing piece of literature in the history of mankind...It doesn't make your team better than his in my eyes.

You wrote a better writeup than him. Nice. I still like his team more.

Your number one option is Danny Granger. Gasol, Ilyasova, and Sefolosha are role players. You're starting a rookie point guard. I dont like it.

He has the best player in the world and they surrounded him with players that suit his talent. I think their team is better.

You clearly do not know what your talking about.... They are good enough to start on good teams. Ilyasova would average a double double at least if he had more minutes. Gasol starts for the Grizzlies....

VCaintdead17
05-01-2012, 12:53 AM
Gasol's impact is underestimated unfortunately. People don't appreciate the fact that he's one of the better screen setters in the game or some of the other intangibles he brings.

Hence his RAPM has been very good over the last 3 seasons (especially this year).

Gasol is everything you want in a center, and then some. To call him a role player would be entirely inaccurate.

Sadds The Gr8
05-01-2012, 12:55 AM
Gasol is WAY more than a role player.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 12:57 AM
I appreciate the time PSK put into the writeup but he's cherry-picking stats out the *** and there's nothing that annoys me more.

BTW, how am I cherry picking stats? I'm using stats from this year, not stats based on 5 games or anything.

And honestly, I used pretty basic stats. Left out **** like RAPM that no one would have a clue about but is probably one of the best advanced stats out there for measuring intangibles like screen setting, etc.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 12:59 AM
Gasol is everything you want in a center, and then some. To call him a role player would be entirely inaccurate.


Gasol is WAY more than a role player.

Yup.

ugafan
05-01-2012, 01:00 AM
You guys think this chubby mother****er is anything more than a scrub and you're kidding yourselves.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/04/marc-gasol-high-school-1.jpg










(kidding if that wasn't obvious)

felixng2012
05-01-2012, 01:03 AM
You guys think this chubby mother****er is anything more than a scrub and you're kidding yourselves.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/04/marc-gasol-high-school-1.jpg










(kidding if that wasn't obvious)

Lmfao.

Sadds The Gr8
05-01-2012, 01:07 AM
You guys think this chubby mother****er is anything more than a scrub and you're kidding yourselves.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/04/marc-gasol-high-school-1.jpg










(kidding if that wasn't obvious)
lmao

Catfish1314
05-01-2012, 01:12 AM
Gasol has long surpassed the caliber of a role player, although I suppose I understand Corey's reasoning behind voting for the Hawks.

I thought Philly's lack of starpower would hurt them but I didn't think it could hurt them in a match-up against the Hawks.

Corey
05-01-2012, 01:29 AM
I guess you lot have different definitions of role player than me.

I dont view Marc Gasol as someone you can run an offense through. He's a nice piece, he's great at what he does, but he isn't a top option.

On a championship team, he's probably a #3 option. He's a passer out of the post, and a good rebounder.

Regardless of whether we share the same definition, a team with Danny Granger as the #1 option isn't going to beat a well constructed Lebron team.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 01:45 AM
I guess you lot have different definitions of role player than me.

I dont view Marc Gasol as someone you can run an offense through. He's a nice piece, he's great at what he does, but he isn't a top option.

On a championship team, he's probably a #3 option. He's a passer out of the post, and a good rebounder.

Regardless of whether we share the same definition, a team with Danny Granger as the #1 option isn't going to beat a well constructed Lebron team.

Did you watch the beginning of the Grizz-Clippers game yesterday? That Grizz offense ran through Gasol and he made **** happen. Then they went away from him, Conley made a bunch of 3s to keep their lead up but they continued to take jumpers in the 4th and they collapsed. They tried to go back to him at the very end but it was too late.

He could be a #2 option on a ship team. And have you actually seen him play? He's got some good post moves (the running hook and the fadeaway jumper). He's a bit too unselfish I'll give you that but he's got the skills to be a 20 point scorer if the Grizz wanted to feature him more. Also, care to explain why the Grizz this year have an eFG% of 47.9% when he's on the court but an eFG% of 43.9% when he's off the court? Thats a 4% difference, which is pretty large. It is that way because of the way the Grizz use him to work inside out and because he's such a great passer, he's good at finding cutters to the basket leading to higher % shots. He also sets excellent screens (about 3 of them yesterday led to Grizz 3 pointers).

Whats your problem with Granger? He had a down season but he was still one of the more clutch players this year. And he can still get you 20 points on a given night.

Also, our team is much more balanced. You seem to be ignoring that. Isaiah and Ily were averaging 15+ points since being inserted into the starting lineup (and thats over 30+ games of sample size). Other than Lebron, no one on that Hawks team can create for themselves. As I mentioned in the write-up, even the Cavs had Mo who would at least iso a decent amount to give Lebron a break but this Hawks team has no one.

Corey
05-01-2012, 01:59 AM
That's nice.

I can form my own opinions, though, I dont need you to do it for me.

Thanks.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 02:16 AM
That's nice.

I can form my own opinions, though, I dont need you to do it for me.

Thanks.

Ok, uh, well Gasol is on my team so I'm gonna argue for him, especially when someone says he's a role player, which I'd strongly disagree with even if he wasn't on my team.

ugafan
05-01-2012, 02:33 AM
It's against my best interest to say this but come on, Gasol is more than a role player. Top 5 or so player at his position.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 02:38 AM
It's against my best interest to say this but come on, Gasol is more than a role player. Top 5 or so player at his position.

Since you were willing to speak up against the Gasol is a role player comment, I'll admit that hidden somewhere in my write-up is evidence that Lebron is one of the more clutch players in the NBA. I'm not saying where though lol.

Sportfan
05-01-2012, 06:26 AM
I'm going to wait until I get the change to read psk's writeup but how will you stop Anderson? Because I remember you saying ily's ppp stood out defending the post so I'm assuming his spot up isn't impressive

unleashthebeast
05-01-2012, 06:58 AM
Really sorry PSK. Your write-up was simply amazing as always, and clearly it swayed a lot of votes your way so congrats on that. But a team with the best player in the world, with a well constructed roster around him consisting of quality shooters, simply will not lose to the 76ers in this series. I have to go with the hawks

Greet
05-01-2012, 08:21 AM
That's nice.

I can form my own opinions, though, I dont need you to do it for me.

Thanks.

Isn't the point of having voting threads in the NBA forum for people to defend their team? Just because he proved your "opinion" wrong, doesn't mean he's making them for you. I thought the point of discussing your team was so that people wouldn't ignorantly vote like you have. I highly doubt you read the write-up, because I don't see a reason why 21 people can vote against us. I mean you called Marc Gasol a role player...that's interesting enough.


Gasol has long surpassed the caliber of a role player, although I suppose I understand Corey's reasoning behind voting for the Hawks.

I thought Philly's lack of starpower would hurt them but I didn't think it could hurt them in a match-up against the Hawks.

Agreed. But I do also think we have one of (probably the second) best well meshed team in the whole re-draft. But oh well, we don't have Lebron therfore we lose.

knicks=love
05-01-2012, 08:29 AM
Thank you for the headache PSK

Corey
05-01-2012, 10:54 AM
Really sorry PSK. Your write-up was simply amazing as always, and clearly it swayed a lot of votes your way so congrats on that. But a team with the best player in the world, with a well constructed roster around him consisting of quality shooters, simply will not lose to the 76ers in this series. I have to go with the hawks

This

mightybosstone
05-01-2012, 01:47 PM
Lebron is clearly the best player in the league and the most reliable player in this series, but the 76ers are superior in nearly every other regard. They are far more balanced, have a better overall defensive squad and have multiple players who can create for themselves. Outside of Lebron, the Hawks defense is insanely mediocre and (as PSK has pointed out several times), nobody else on that team can create their own shot.

Having Lebron, alone, keeps the series close, but I think the 76ers' balance gets them the win in 7 games.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 01:49 PM
I'm going to wait until I get the change to read psk's writeup but how will you stop Anderson? Because I remember you saying ily's ppp stood out defending the post so I'm assuming his spot up isn't impressive

Oh, I got that covered. Both Wright and Ayon have been good guarding spot up shooters this year. Wright because he's got the long arms to close on a shooter and contest the shot.

But yeah, please read the write-up lol :)

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 02:29 PM
Really sorry PSK. Your write-up was simply amazing as always, and clearly it swayed a lot of votes your way so congrats on that. But a team with the best player in the world, with a well constructed roster around him consisting of quality shooters, simply will not lose to the 76ers in this series. I have to go with the hawks


This

You guys are entitled to your opinion. I mean I have yet to really see a convincing argument against our team in this matchup but I do see why someone would pick the Hawks. So it's all good.


Thank you for the headache PSK

:laugh2: No problem K-L. At least I know you read our write-up lol. But it was better than the one in the Knicks all-time re-draft right? You remember that one right? :laugh2:

Greet
05-01-2012, 03:27 PM
You guys are entitled to your opinion. I mean I have yet to really see a convincing argument against our team in this matchup but I do see why someone would pick the Hawks. So it's all good.

That's the thing. I haven't seen one person actually make an argument for the Hawks that made sense.

KnicksorBust
05-01-2012, 08:40 PM
Bump. Only match-up that deserves it. Hopefully it stays on the front page. :)

PatsSoxKnicks
05-01-2012, 11:34 PM
Bump. Only match-up that deserves it. Hopefully it stays on the front page. :)

x2 lol

PocketKings
05-02-2012, 02:13 AM
Bumpski.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Bumpski.

x2

Sportfan
05-02-2012, 04:01 PM
sexers

Corey
05-02-2012, 05:23 PM
Bump

PatsSoxKnicks
05-03-2012, 02:03 PM
Congrats to the Hawks GMs for advancing. Good luck going forward

DR_1
05-03-2012, 03:45 PM
Ill take the hawks. My 1 worry is who will hit shots in the 4th, but they wont need to worry about it this series.