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View Full Version : Flopping in the NBA - is a rule change in order?



episodenone
04-30-2012, 10:03 AM
We've all seen the links to the ridiculous flops on YouTube.

I think there is at least one major sport legislating Flops and giving out fouls -- Soccer maybe?

But this is a joke.

And for 2 reasons:

1: I played pickup basketball for years. [as well as several other sports] I got smacked around quite a bit because I threw my body around. I paid for it with missing teeth and broken noses.

But I always was up on my feet in a second or 2. ALWAYS. As was everyone else I played with.

Kicked in the shins? Ouch -- but keep playing. Remember - we only have this court / field rented for the next 20 minutes.

And before you say the Pro;s hits hurt more - consider it equal -- becuase we hit hard for our size as do they.

2: Seriously - if a massive muscular player in the NBA or some other sport had a real reason to not flop [possible Technical] or just "Man-Up" then I bet we would see a whole let less of it. I mean as big as some of these guys are - some of the guys they "crash" into should stand them up just like in a football game.

There is NO ONE -- not 1 single Fan that enjoys watching the way these guys are flopping these days.

Because if you like the one where your guy gets the call - you hate the 5 that the other guy gets it.

It's detracting from the league. This is a contact sport - act like it.

Do you think it's time we made our voices heard some how? and how can we do it? i don;t mean some useless online petition - I mean emailing the NBA front office or something. The NBA is such a league so concerned about their image -- a huge number of emails -- they'll notice it.

Maybe I'll go track down an email address for them.

And I don;t recommend sending an email with a specific complaint about your team -- it should be a general statement if you want it to carry any weight.

This is the "Contact the NBA Front Office Email":

http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html

episodenone
04-30-2012, 10:12 AM
http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html

There you go -- start emailing asap!

jimm120
04-30-2012, 10:13 AM
Hockey has a rule against "flopping". It isn't perfect and very subjective, but I think its in the right direction.

It won't eliminate it, but it will at least make the players think about the consequences before flopping.

Cal827
04-30-2012, 10:15 AM
Fouls for flopping. The stars will get the message when they are at 5 fouls early.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-30-2012, 10:15 AM
Lebron hate for the win!

CodeRed
04-30-2012, 10:17 AM
It would be too hard to determine whether a player is flopping or not in live action but maybe have someone review plays after the game is over and give out fines and eventually suspensions for repeat "floppers"

gaughan333
04-30-2012, 10:20 AM
Technical foul for flopping.

LakersKB24
04-30-2012, 10:21 AM
Hockey has a rule against "flopping". It isn't perfect and very subjective, but I think its in the right direction.

It won't eliminate it, but it will at least make the players think about the consequences before flopping.

They should just give technicals for obvious flopping. That way you don't only hurt yourself but also your team. Maybe this makes them think twice befor they fall to thr ground...
In soccer, when you get caught flopping, you get a yellow card, works fine! Those *****es get punished and make a fool out of themselves in front of the fans!

nycericanguy
04-30-2012, 10:21 AM
Almost everything in sports is "subjective".

Theres no reason flopping can't be included in that. Review plays after games like you do technicals, if there is an obvious flop, give the player a strike. 3 strikes and you get a 1 game suspension. Something along those lines. That alone would make players think twice about flopping. I was LMAO at that Chris Bosh flop on Boozer, that right there should warrant a 1 game suspension.

loughrncu
04-30-2012, 10:26 AM
http://www.vvio.info/jpg1Hockey has a rule against "flopping". It isn't perfect and very subjective, but I think its in the right direction.

It won't eliminate it, but it will at least make the players think about the consequences before flopping.

I think its in the right direction.

Lo Porto
04-30-2012, 10:30 AM
At least soccer has a rule in place for flopping. If you flop in the penalty area, it's a yellow card. That's the same as a technical if related to basketball. In other areas of the field, soccer refs disregard flops and let the play continue despite a player's attempt to fool the ref.

As for basketball, the problem is that refs treat players differently. If you're a star, all you have to do is flop and you'll get the call. If you watched the Miami or San Antonio wins this weekend, that was obvious. All Duncan, Parker, LeBron and Manu have to do is throw their hands up or fall down and it's a trip to the FT line.

The NBA AND Soccer, need to find a way to address flopping after the game. It's hard for refs to see everything, but if the league could definitely point out where a player flopped, then maybe a technical could be addressed after the game. That doesn't help play in the moment, but a stricter technical accumulation rule could keep players out of future games just like yellow cards do in soccer. This could curb the flopping quite a bit.

Lake_Show2416
04-30-2012, 10:31 AM
ya it's obviously over do but the league can control the out comes of games better when they do have flopping

KingsMadness44
04-30-2012, 10:33 AM
i agree with everything you you guys are saying. I dont know exactly which rule change would be best BUT something needs to happen.

Flopping is honestly single handidly ruinning the game of basketball. I had a friend of mine tell me that he respects Lebron for flopping because thats how bad he wants to win and hes doing it in the teams best interest to win.

People are saying that its hard to judge whats a flop and whats not and i agree that its not easy. But i am sure i am not the only one here that has been able to watch a game on TV hear the whistle blow and say "that was clearly a flop" without having to see the replay.

Another thing i would like to point out just in case people say that i shouldnt say anything because i am a Kings fan and say that Divac started the Flopping epidemic. Divac would only flop in order to take charges. Now flopping has gone to falling down on screens, players ripping through to clear space, jump shots, lay-ups, loose balls, charges of course. Basically any kind of contact and you can get a 6-8 250 MAN to fall down WITH EASE.

knicks4life33
04-30-2012, 11:06 AM
nba greatest moments in flopping just released bye sports illustrated http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.flopping/content.1.html?sct=nba_bf4_a3

knicks4life33
04-30-2012, 11:08 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1204/nba.flopping/content.1.html?sct=nba_bf4_a3 see what team and player comes up the most on this list

Slug3
04-30-2012, 11:11 AM
The refs just shouldn't call a foul if to them it looks like the person is flopping.

D-Leethal
04-30-2012, 11:12 AM
Blatant flops should be a tech. Its the only way. Some of those Clipper flops down the stretch were absolutely embarrassing. Same with LeBron. The most talented guys in the NBA shouldn't be playing like little *****es.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 11:16 AM
It would be too hard to determine whether a player is flopping or not in live action but maybe have someone review plays after the game is over and give out fines and eventually suspensions for repeat "floppers"

All of it is subjective really when it comes to something like this. I'm not sure i want them to be able to slow the game down and review it at the time -- that could be counter productive.

So sure - it could be reviewed later and rescinded like a flagrant -- but it would give the game a lot more feel of what we love about college.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 11:19 AM
Hockey has a rule against "flopping". It isn't perfect and very subjective, but I think its in the right direction.

It won't eliminate it, but it will at least make the players think about the consequences before flopping.

Right -- that must have been what I was thinking.

maybe they were talking about it while I was watching a Soccer match that they needed to be more like Hockey.

Soccer players are the worst offenders right up there with B-ball.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 11:22 AM
So far it's more or less unanimous. So what do we do?
I'm gonna send over my email to that email address I posted -- event if it's the wrong address - sooner or later the NBA will figure that out!

if only because the wrong NBA employees are pissed about all the email!

let's mobilize.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 11:23 AM
Voila:

http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html

RedNationBomb
04-30-2012, 11:25 AM
I also believe flopping is getting out of hand. So I would offer this solution. How about the league gives 3 flop review per team per game. That way when the coaches feel there has been a flop and it converts into points for the other team they can request a review. The thing is that some of these flops sometimes occur during pivital points of the game and sometimes can change the outcome of the game. So there is no point in having them reviewed after the game is over. It needs to happen during the so that the players can get the picture that they cannot flop and win a game especially one that is very close. This would also give the refs an opprotunity to start single out the ones who do it consitently. During on overtime teams would only get 1 review. What do you all think?

Cal827
04-30-2012, 11:30 AM
How can that SI article NOT have Bosh's flop on the Boozer elbow? That was almost worthy of an emmy :facepalm:

ironman9518
04-30-2012, 11:45 AM
Flopping in basketball and diving in hockey are the worst. Whenever I see someone flop/dive I get disgusted and lose respect for that player. It's bush league and it's disrespecting the sport and the fans. I don't know if a rule should be made but it is very classless

kdspurman
04-30-2012, 11:48 AM
How can that SI article NOT have Bosh's flop on the Boozer elbow? That was almost worthy of an emmy :facepalm:

That was a joke :laugh2:

episodenone
04-30-2012, 11:48 AM
I also believe flopping is getting out of hand. So I would offer this solution. How about the league gives 3 flop review per team per game. That way when the coaches feel there has been a flop and it converts into points for the other team they can request a review. The thing is that some of these flops sometimes occur during pivital points of the game and sometimes can change the outcome of the game. So there is no point in having them reviewed after the game is over. It needs to happen during the so that the players can get the picture that they cannot flop and win a game especially one that is very close. This would also give the refs an opprotunity to start single out the ones who do it consitently. During on overtime teams would only get 1 review. What do you all think?

Not bad. Would you lose a TO if you're proven wrong?

also -- this would make the guys that act like they didn't actually foul when they did a bit more accountable.

Law25
04-30-2012, 11:48 AM
I dont think teching or any other foul should be given for flopping because it will slow the game down. Let the reffs decide if its flopping during the game. I do think however that each team should have a game reveiw team that watches every game and send clips to the league of players flopping during ther teams game. The league should have no more than a week to decide if its flopping and if it is the player envolved should be fined ten percent of there monthly league wages the first three times, and a twenty percent plus a one game suspension every time after that. i can see the league fining alot of players just for the money, but players will quickly get the message and play grown man ball.

Also the league should review which reffs fall for the flop the most and assign them to the NBA development league for a month at that leagues wages and bring up refs who first must past a test given on the ability to notice a flop.This way the reffs are on ther game as well as the players.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 11:49 AM
Remember back in the day when guys would raise their hands or just walk away after they fouled rather than act like they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar?

heyman321
04-30-2012, 11:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNxiWES8G0o

A Double flop!! What does it mean?? OHHHH MY GOD, OOHOHOHH MY GOD.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 11:50 AM
I dont think teching or any other foul should be given for flopping because it will slow the game down. Let the reffs decide if its flopping during the game. I do think however that each team should have a game reveiw team that watches every game and send clips to the league of players flopping during ther teams game. The league should have no more than a week to decide if its flopping and if it is the player envolved should be fined ten percent of there monthly league wages the first three times, and a twenty percent plus a one game suspension every time after that. i can see the league fining alot of players just for the money, but players will quickly get the message and play grown man ball.

Also the league should review which reffs fall for the flop the most and assign them to the NBA development league for a month at that leagues wages and bring up refs who first must past a test given on the ability to notice a flop.This way the reffs are on ther game as well as the players.

I like it -- make the Refs accountable as well.

These are some great ideas! We all need to start emailing them in: it HAS to make a difference...

Even cut and paste someone else's idea -- they'll get the message.

http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html

episodenone
04-30-2012, 11:54 AM
Sent in my FIRST [of many] email to come.

Cut and Pasted the link to this thread in it. Said it has to be addressed and some of the ideas in this thread should be considered.

Who's next?

It takes literally 10 seconds.

"Flops: Please refer to my thread at PSD.com and you'll see how overwhelming the feeling that flopping in the NBA is a real problem. Not only that - but there are some great ideas on how to fix it as well.
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=716307"

torocan
04-30-2012, 12:00 PM
Make blatant flopping a Technical, with mandatory video review.

Would be easy to define it...

Blatant Flopping occurs when one of the following occurs...

-The player acts like there is body contact when there has clearly been NO body contact.
-The player acts like there is substantial body contact when there has been minor body contact.
-The player slows the pace of the game by feigning injury when there has clearly been minor or no contact.

Penalty : Technical foul. Should the Flop take place on a defending team, then it shall be treated as a goal tend (2 points). Should the Flop take place on the offensive team, then the opposing team shall be awarded 1 point + possession of the ball. Upon review, the referees may choose to waive the call and resume play, with a normal inbounding by the team in possession.

Do that, and problem solved for the most part.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 12:01 PM
Send it in to the link!


http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html

RaiderLakersA's
04-30-2012, 12:04 PM
Flopping is only around because refs are absolutely horrible at calling games consisently. If refs called the games correctly, dislodging, flopping, etc., etc., would never be an issue.

torocan
04-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Flopping is only around because refs are absolutely horrible at calling games consisently. If refs called the games correctly, dislodging, flopping, etc., etc., would never be an issue.

It's the human factor. It's also why they instituted instant replay in the first place.

As it stands now, there's no recourse to force an instant replay on a flop, which means you're relying on human judgement from an everchanging roster of officials.

Codifying it to allow video review would allow the human factor in terms of officiating to be reduced in impact.

Also, without some sort of penalty, then there is ZERO incentive for a player to NOT flop.

Without a downside, Flopping is all upside.

If the Flop succeeds, they get a foul (FT's, change of possession, stack up fouls on your opponent).

If the Flop fails, nothing lost. Game just chugs along.

Unless you institute a way to review flops and and commensurate penalties then you're creating a game environment where the only players who are penalized are the ones who do NOT flop.

In business terms, it's a classic case of profit without risk.

teddygreen17
04-30-2012, 12:11 PM
I wish technicals for flopping...but then again..superstars like Lebron wont get called for it...He really pissed me off in yesterday's game.

Cal827
04-30-2012, 12:13 PM
The one issue I can see people complaining about would be the pace of the game. If the refs have to check almost every single foul for a flop, it would take a lot longer in order to finish a game. For a casual fan, it might be annoying.

emau5
04-30-2012, 12:34 PM
why not allow a team to challenge a play (one that they deem was a flop) and the refs can review, if it was a flop that flopper gets a foul, if it wasnt the team loses one challenge...thoughts?

BklynKnicks3
04-30-2012, 12:35 PM
lebron really is a disgrace 260 6'8 made of steel and anytime u touch him he goes flying what a joke and he not even good at it he falls liek a second late.

ManningToTyree
04-30-2012, 12:38 PM
Technical for flopping would be fair. Yes it is subjective and refs will only call when it is blatant. The rule will deter a lot of floppers for fear of getting T'd up. If the techs add up enough players get suspened so I think that would reduce a lot of flopping (and *****ing about flopping).

LA_Raiders
04-30-2012, 12:38 PM
No way the NBA will have a rule on flopping.

Crab and Flop are signature moves from LeBroom...

emau5
04-30-2012, 12:38 PM
The one issue I can see people complaining about would be the pace of the game. If the refs have to check almost every single foul for a flop, it would take a lot longer in order to finish a game. For a casual fan, it might be annoying.

only allow 3 challenges per game

LA_Raiders
04-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Review the flop after the game and suspend his ***...

RaiderLakersA's
04-30-2012, 12:40 PM
It's the human factor. It's also why they instituted instant replay in the first place.

As it stands now, there's no recourse to force an instant replay on a flop, which means you're relying on human judgement from an everchanging roster of officials.

Codifying it to allow video review would allow the human factor in terms of officiating to be reduced in impact.

Also, without some sort of penalty, then there is ZERO incentive for a player to NOT flop.

Without a downside, Flopping is all upside.

If the Flop succeeds, they get a foul (FT's, change of possession, stack up fouls on your opponent).

If the Flop fails, nothing lost. Game just chugs along.

Unless you institute a way to review flops and and commensurate penalties then you're creating a game environment where the only players who are penalized are the ones who do NOT flop.

In business terms, it's a classic case of profit without risk.

Good post, but my point is simply this: under the original NBA rules the offensive player was never meant to contact the defensive player at all once the defender had established position. What we refer to as the "human factor" is basically the NBA allowing the contact in the first place. Hence (for example) Shaq "backing down" players in the post was no longer a foul, which is what it should have been. As a sad, but twisted result of the refs failure to uphold key principles of the game, flopping became the only recourse for players.

Basketball was meant to be a finesse sport, not football on parquet floors. Players were initially trained to operate with sufficient agility and grace to avoid obstacles, not run through them. I'm not saying that I want to take the physicality out of basketball -- hell, I think teams ought to be punished if they don't earn at least one flagrant 2 a season -- but that is what it was meant to be.

jericho
04-30-2012, 12:44 PM
Make blatant flopping a Technical, with mandatory video review.

Would be easy to define it...

Blatant Flopping occurs when one of the following occurs...

-The player acts like there is body contact when there has clearly been NO body contact.
-The player acts like there is substantial body contact when there has been minor body contact.
-The player slows the pace of the game by feigning injury when there has clearly been minor or no contact.

Penalty : Technical foul. Should the Flop take place on a defending team, then it shall be treated as a goal tend (2 points). Should the Flop take place on the offensive team, then the opposing team shall be awarded 1 point + possession of the ball. Upon review, the referees may choose to waive the call and resume play, with a normal inbounding by the team in possession.

Do that, and problem solved for the most part.

i like this idea also give the coaches a like 3 or 5 chances to challenge the call that way they dont have to review every single foul like some posters think it wld be just the obvious plays were you see flopping involve. the thing with this is if they dont fix this during the game it would be for nothing because flopping can decide the outcome of a game so there is no point in reviewing the game after its over and the game is decided all you can do is just fine them (and i believe it doesnt bother them cuz they make a lot of money) or give them techs and suspend them



the only thing i would change is that instead of giving out points make them take fts

torocan
04-30-2012, 12:47 PM
The one issue I can see people complaining about would be the pace of the game. If the refs have to check almost every single foul for a flop, it would take a lot longer in order to finish a game. For a casual fan, it might be annoying.

It would slow the game down initially, but once the technicals start getting handed out, the number of blatant flops per game would drop significantly. Especially once someone fouls out.

Then the refs could just scale it back to those that are 50/50 or better in their minds.

It's no different than when the game gets chippy and they start nailing people for ticky tack fouls.

All it takes is a few good flop calls and you'll start seeing games shape up.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 12:49 PM
http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html

The link to make your complaint known to those that matter...

NYY 26 to 7
04-30-2012, 12:50 PM
I dont think teching or any other foul should be given for flopping because it will slow the game down. Let the reffs decide if its flopping during the game. I do think however that each team should have a game reveiw team that watches every game and send clips to the league of players flopping during ther teams game. The league should have no more than a week to decide if its flopping and if it is the player envolved should be fined ten percent of there monthly league wages the first three times, and a twenty percent plus a one game suspension every time after that. i can see the league fining alot of players just for the money, but players will quickly get the message and play grown man ball.

Also the league should review which reffs fall for the flop the most and assign them to the NBA development league for a month at that leagues wages and bring up refs who first must past a test given on the ability to notice a flop.This way the reffs are on ther game as well as the players.

I'm with something along these lines. Can't judge it in game (unless it is blatant and then they can tech and review maybe? But I think it should be reviewed by the league office and hold refs and players accountable with fines and suspensions. Guys will stop pretty quick and it's simple to make the game better. Imagine guys not flying all over the place and actually goin up to contest shots instead of trying to slide under a guy who made a good move to get to the rim.

emau5
04-30-2012, 12:54 PM
just have it like football, have 3 challenges that a team can use per game if they feel it was a flop, if it was the flopper gets a foul, if it wasnt a flop then that team loses one of their challenges

seems easy enough

Stinkyoutsider
04-30-2012, 01:02 PM
I think flopping is ruining how the NBA and basketball in America is looked at. We had a few people from Europe come to my job and we talked about basketball (people were from Spain). They said they watch some of the games and laugh because of all the flopping.

Basketball is a physical game. Hits are going to happen and these players need to have the mindset of concentrating on being pros and not taking the easy way out with a flop.

The NBA says the NBA officials are the best in the world, so they need to figure out what's a flop and what isn't. Give the flopper a tech right away. Van Gundy has a point with all of it!

MassoDio
04-30-2012, 01:15 PM
I sent my email.

I cannot stand flopping.

Part of the problem lies with the changes made in the rules over the last decade or so, which all benefit the offense. Defensive players feel that they need to flop in order to get the benefit of a call. Which is true, because you cannot play real defense in this league anymore. Every little touch is a foul, which is ridiculous.

The rule changes have also resulted in more flopping on the offensive end simply because the offensive player knows that any touch is going to result in a foul, so they pretend they get hit, or they exaggerate any touch from the defender because they know the officials are going to make a call.

There are more changes that need to be made to fix this issue. The NBA needs to give the defensive player as much respect as the offensive player, in order for flopping to go away.

As it stands now, an offensive player can initiate contact and the call goes against the defender. And if the defender initiates contact, the call also goes against the defender. It should not matter if a defensive player is set, or gets to a spot first, if the offensive player clearly initiates the contact, and that is what disrupts their shot, it should be a no call or an offensive foul. I would go with the no call, simply because I do not agree with the NBA's stance that this needs to become a non-contact sport, or an ALL offensive sport. Which seems to be what all the rule changes have lead to.

Ugh...the NBA rules, officiating of the rules, and the flopping which has resulted because of them infuriate me.

Big Zo
04-30-2012, 01:21 PM
I don't think even Kings fans *****ed this much after 2002.

jericho
04-30-2012, 01:33 PM
I don't think even Kings fans *****ed this much after 2002.

oh believe me i still do i still say that kobe and shaq have 4 and 3 rings respectively
here is to the real champs from 02 the kings oh and their mvp mike bibby
:p
to bad we have another repeat of that with the heat in the east and i dont know i havent seen the game but i beleive the clips will be carried there 2

MrfadeawayJB
04-30-2012, 01:36 PM
I think if the refs simply did not call flops as fouls it would solve the issue. For example if Dwight is backing down cleanly, and does not lower his shoulder or anything like that, and Bosh flops, then make it a no call and allow Dwight to Dunk on Bosh. This would embarass the defender and discourage flopping

Law25
04-30-2012, 01:38 PM
I don't think even Kings fans *****ed this much after 2002.

Like a poster in another thread stated. If you watched the series and not just game 7 you would see the calls that series were horrible for both sides. It was as if the league didnt want the Lakers to over dominate for fear of the league looking watered down or something. The Kings were getting so many calls that kept them in games and them in the series it wasnt even funny. Kings fans arent complaining as much because they knew than they werent suppose to last as long in that series and benefited from the whistle until the last game. Kobe is my favorite player in the game today, but i hate how he throw his hands in the air on his shots rather he was hit or not, becuase its like he's flopping for to get the call. The Harden's, Manu's, and now Lebron's of the leauge need to get penalized.

jimm120
04-30-2012, 01:46 PM
They should just give technicals for obvious flopping. That way you don't only hurt yourself but also your team. Maybe this makes them think twice befor they fall to thr ground...
In soccer, when you get caught flopping, you get a yellow card, works fine! Those *****es get punished and make a fool out of themselves in front of the fans!

Oh, so Soccer has it too?

That just shows that it can be done. All I know is that since its been put into place in Hockey, it has somewhat deterred flopping.

Of course, there's more contact in basketball (not as hard, but still less) but it can be done.

It won't stop it. It wont. But it will diminish it by a good 20% (at least hopefully) and maybe up to 40%.

jericho
04-30-2012, 01:51 PM
Like a poster in another thread stated. If you watched the series and not just game 7 you would see the calls that series were horrible for both sides. It was as if the league didnt want the Lakers to over dominate for fear of the league looking watered down or something. The Kings were getting so many calls that kept them in games and them in the series it wasnt even funny. Kings fans arent complaining as much because they knew than they werent suppose to last as long in that series and benefited from the whistle until the last game. Kobe is my favorite player in the game today, but i hate how he throw his hands in the air on his shots rather he was hit or not, becuase its like he's flopping for to get the call. The Harden's, Manu's, and now Lebron's of the leauge need to get penalized.

what are you talking bout are you serious wow go back and watch that series again because you and me didnt watch the same games then it all started in game 6 and it followed to game 7 the kings only needed 1 game and could not close thanks to the 5 on 8 disadvantege anyways the thread is bout flopping talk lets talk bout that before i get out of hand going back to the past lol :(

milominderbinde
04-30-2012, 02:57 PM
Not going to happen. When the league's most marketed star is the biggest perpetrator (or one of them) you have the recipe for status quo.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 03:23 PM
Not going to happen. When the league's most marketed star is the biggest perpetrator (or one of them) you have the recipe for status quo.

I disagree.

If the fans who buy the product start complaining and stop buying the product -- how marketable are the players?

JC_
04-30-2012, 03:44 PM
Regarding the Miami - Knicks game:

If fouls were called for flopping there would have been 2 called in that game. 1 for Lebrons flop out of bounds when he was beside JR and 2 was Chalmers flopping after a 3pt attempt.

How much of a difference would that have made in the overall game?


I agree flopping is lame and fouls should be called for doing it but as angry as some of you were after that game, it wouldn't have even made a slight difference in the outcome.

Soonerule
04-30-2012, 03:50 PM
I think a lot of the incidents we see would stop if there was a more uniform standard set for calling fouls in the first place. Some refs call games very tight and some seem to go to the extreme of no blood, no foul. I also don't get the concept that something that was a foul in the second quarter isn't a foul with 10 seconds left on the clock in a close game, or having one standard in the regular season and another during the playoffs.

Once a more stringent standard is set, then the league could institute a program for evaluating individual incidences of flopping. If an actual foul occurred then what a player does to draw attention to it is their own business. But in those cases of ghost flopping when a player hasn't even been touched, progressive fines and suspensions would do the trick.

torocan
04-30-2012, 03:53 PM
Regarding the Miami - Knicks game:

If fouls were called for flopping there would have been 2 called in that game. 1 for Lebrons flop out of bounds when he was beside JR and 2 was Chalmers flopping after a 3pt attempt.

How much of a difference would that have made in the overall game?


I agree flopping is lame and fouls should be called for doing it but as angry as some of you were after that game, it wouldn't have even made a slight difference in the outcome.

Significant if it puts those players in foul trouble early. It forces Lebron to either play less contact on offense/defense, or Spoelstra to sit him more minutes.

The biggest impact in terms of the 2nd quarter officiating wasn't the point difference, it's that it put multiple Knick starters in foul trouble (3) before the 2nd quarter was even done.

Lots of those fouls were legit calls by the ref, but when you toss in crap calls on top of that, it swings the game significantly in ways that are impossible to predict.

Fouls are never just about the points. They're about how they influence the flow of the game and how physical teams can play both on offense and defense. A player with No fouls can take more chances on plays, a player with 4 fouls can't do the same thing.

So yes, flopping is bad in multiple ways, and should be treated harshly in my opinion.

Sly Guy
04-30-2012, 03:55 PM
I see it as 2 completely different schools. Flopping like trying to draw a charge is ok. A guy dipping his shoulder and making contact might be a good way to draw attention to the infraction. Besides, if you don't get that kind of call, you'll likely give up a bucket playing 4-5.

Feinting injury needs to go. When a player rolls around on the ground faking hurt to draw a flagrant or an ejection, that's just despicable. No one wants to see that, and it makes the whole league seem soft.

D-Leethal
04-30-2012, 03:59 PM
I think a lot of the incidents we see would stop if there was a more uniform standard set for calling fouls in the first place. Some refs call games very tight and some seem to go to the extreme of no blood, no foul. I also don't get the concept that something that was a foul in the second quarter isn't a foul with 10 seconds left on the clock in a close game, or having one standard in the regular season and another during the playoffs.

Once a more stringent standard is set, then the league could institute a program for evaluating individual incidences of flopping. If an actual foul occurred then what a player does to draw attention to it is their own business. But in those cases of ghost flopping when a player hasn't even been touched, progressive fines and suspensions would do the trick.

This is the only post worth reading in this thread. You can't have 30-40 officials who all have their own rules as to how they decide to call games. Also, the same officials during the same game can't let guys play 1 quarter and than the next quarter call every touch foul. It happens way too often and there is obviously no standard that applies to every official. Its like they get to go out there and blow their whistle whenever they damn well please.

How are you supposed to defend when the refs keep switching up how physical they let you play every 5 minutes? How can there be so many tick tack fouls in a game where the only allow 6 fouls in 48 minutes? What on Earth does Stern see in the ridiculous amount of tick tack fouls? Is that supposed to get more fans into the games?

Too many calls that are only made once in a blue moon. 3 second calls, travel calls, offensive pushoffs, carries etc....These things occur every possession, but refs will only call them when they feel like it and than let it go for the other 47 minutes.

The whole officiating system in the NBA is as bad as it gets in pro sports.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 04:05 PM
Regarding the Miami - Knicks game:

If fouls were called for flopping there would have been 2 called in that game. 1 for Lebrons flop out of bounds when he was beside JR and 2 was Chalmers flopping after a 3pt attempt.

How much of a difference would that have made in the overall game?


I agree flopping is lame and fouls should be called for doing it but as angry as some of you were after that game, it wouldn't have even made a slight difference in the outcome.

If you read my original post -- it's not about 1 game or 1 team.

You cannot use examples from a blowout game to prove that Flopping is not a major problem. It's a logical fallacy.

I stressed in the OP not to discuss any specific calls in your reasoning - because we all have seen it happen to everyone.

And I'm a Knickerbocker - so I could easily argue -- but I won't in light of the bigger picture of Stopping the Flopping.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 04:05 PM
The link to make your feelings known:

http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html

episodenone
04-30-2012, 04:08 PM
This is the only post worth reading in this thread. You can't have 30-40 officials who all have their own rules as to how they decide to call games. Also, the same officials during the same game can't let guys play 1 quarter and than the next quarter call every touch foul. It happens way too often and there is obviously no standard that applies to every official. Its like they get to go out there and blow their whistle whenever they damn well please.

How are you supposed to defend when the refs keep switching up how physical they let you play every 5 minutes? How can there be so many tick tack fouls in a game where the only allow 6 fouls in 48 minutes? What on Earth does Stern see in the ridiculous amount of tick tack fouls? Is that supposed to get more fans into the games?

Too many calls that are only made once in a blue moon. 3 second calls, travel calls, offensive pushoffs, carries etc....These things occur every possession, but refs will only call them when they feel like it and than let it go for the other 47 minutes.

The whole officiating system in the NBA is as bad as it gets in pro sports.

Jeez D-Leethal -- you've been so negative lately.

This thread has plenty of great posts [not just mine] -- we can make a difference if we try. This problem is universal AND subjective.

We're talking about fixing the Flop. Not much we can do about everything else.

Sactown
04-30-2012, 04:08 PM
In a perfect world it sounds like a great idea, but in the NBA it just leads to more control for the officials

KnicksTape
04-30-2012, 04:16 PM
The Nba is too soft now and a lot of the younger fans like it. :rolleyes:

episodenone
04-30-2012, 04:18 PM
In a perfect world it sounds like a great idea, but in the NBA it just leads to more control for the officials

Which is why you make the officials have to go through their own review to see why they are calling flops as fouls or vice versa.

EVERYONE needs to be held accountable for this Bush League crap.

honestly -- once Stern FINALLY gives up the dictatorship.... maybe then a new commissioner will make some real changes.

episodenone
04-30-2012, 04:20 PM
The Nba is too soft now and a lot of the younger fans like it. :rolleyes:

Totally disagree. No one like the flopping. It's garbage.

yanks08
04-30-2012, 04:31 PM
death sentence for a flop lmao

NYK4L
04-30-2012, 04:56 PM
If the NBA decides to implement a flooping rule.

They name it? The (players name) rule.

JC_
04-30-2012, 05:18 PM
Significant if it puts those players in foul trouble early. It forces Lebron to either play less contact on offense/defense, or Spoelstra to sit him more minutes.

The biggest impact in terms of the 2nd quarter officiating wasn't the point difference, it's that it put multiple Knick starters in foul trouble (3) before the 2nd quarter was even done.

Lots of those fouls were legit calls by the ref, but when you toss in crap calls on top of that, it swings the game significantly in ways that are impossible to predict.

Fouls are never just about the points. They're about how they influence the flow of the game and how physical teams can play both on offense and defense. A player with No fouls can take more chances on plays, a player with 4 fouls can't do the same thing.

So yes, flopping is bad in multiple ways, and should be treated harshly in my opinion.

I was just talking about the Miami - Knicks game. It wouldn't have made a difference. Better officiating in general would have probably made a big difference though. I agree, flopping is lame and it should be treated harshly unless of course it is done as awesomely as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqS5U4lSSVg

JC_
04-30-2012, 05:36 PM
If you read my original post -- it's not about 1 game or 1 team.

You cannot use examples from a blowout game to prove that Flopping is not a major problem. It's a logical fallacy.

I stressed in the OP not to discuss any specific calls in your reasoning - because we all have seen it happen to everyone.

And I'm a Knickerbocker - so I could easily argue -- but I won't in light of the bigger picture of Stopping the Flopping.

Sorry, my post was directed towards other Knicks fans who are probably wondering how much of a difference it would have made in that game. There was no intent to try and prove/disprove anything you've said. I just ignored you not wanting specific calls to be discussed.

I think obvious flops should be called a foul and players who flop (called or not) should be fined after the league does video reviews of the questionable act. The reason I think only "obvious" flops should be called is: the refs would be even worse than they are now if they were forced to make the distinction between a flop/non-flop on the fly.

Sactown
04-30-2012, 05:45 PM
If the NBA decides to implement a flooping rule.

They name it? The (players name) rule.

I love my boy Vlade, but you gotta name it Divac's law of unexplainable falling

Max.This
04-30-2012, 06:06 PM
Regarding the Miami - Knicks game:

If fouls were called for flopping there would have been 2 called in that game. 1 for Lebrons flop out of bounds when he was beside JR and 2 was Chalmers flopping after a 3pt attempt.

How much of a difference would that have made in the overall game?


I agree flopping is lame and fouls should be called for doing it but as angry as some of you were after that game, it wouldn't have even made a slight difference in the outcome.

Lebrun flopped on the front of Carmelo in the post. He acted like a freight train hit him. He flopped on the Tyson chandler screen.

Kevj77
04-30-2012, 06:52 PM
It would be too hard to determine whether a player is flopping or not in live action but maybe have someone review plays after the game is over and give out fines and eventually suspensions for repeat "floppers"This is probably the only way. During the game it's hard for the refs to tell if it is a flop

This was the McHale clothsline on Rambis back in the day. Notice how quickly he gets up ready to fight. There was no technical called or flagrant (not sure flagrants were a rule yet) just a regular foul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ

This is a complete flop by Harden. Harden looks like he took a punch in the face from Mike Tyson rolls on the ground and holds his face. He draws a foul and technical on Chandler for acting. It reminds me of the WWE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLxh2uXpEE

At the end of the video JVG suggests the league reviews these types of play and a $10000 fine for flopping that obviously. It has got out of control.

da ThRONe
04-30-2012, 07:50 PM
While I would like the league to step up and start fining players for obivious flops I think this starts with the refs. I've seen far to many late whistles that we're inspired by a flop. If the original contact didn't warrant a foul then neither should the aftermath.

Lakerfan8032
04-30-2012, 08:08 PM
Yes it is ridiculous. They should absolutely have some system in place to control it as much as they can. When some of these players aren't touched but fall down any way, it is embarrassing for the league. I'm all for some kind of punishment system where it starts with fines and works its way up to suspensions for repeat offenders.

Guys like Ginobili would have to apapt quick.

championships
04-30-2012, 08:15 PM
They need to do something. Flopping is cheating the game and cheapens the game.

NYSpirit1
04-30-2012, 08:18 PM
Wow, Wade with the giant flop at the end of the quarter. He literally fell down in the air himself on purpose. What an idiot.

Seriously, the NBA should investigate the flopping by the Heat.

NYK4L
04-30-2012, 08:25 PM
I love my boy Vlade, but you gotta name it Divac's law of unexplainable falling


:laugh:

torocan
04-30-2012, 09:55 PM
Wow, Wade with the giant flop at the end of the quarter. He literally fell down in the air himself on purpose. What an idiot.

Seriously, the NBA should investigate the flopping by the Heat.

Really, this thread isn't about the Heat.

Yes, Lebron and other Heat players flop alot, but there's not shortage of floppers in the league.

Granted, Lebron has done some very atrocious flops like this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkBjuVGbb4

However, it's about more than any single player. Flops in general are hurting the game. It makes games less fun to watch, it changes the game momentum in ways that take away from the skill component of the game.

If players are good, they should be able to win without excessive flopping.

I believe blatant flops should result in techs + eventual fines. That would end it soon enough.

episodenone
05-01-2012, 08:07 AM
Sorry, my post was directed towards other Knicks fans who are probably wondering how much of a difference it would have made in that game. There was no intent to try and prove/disprove anything you've said. I just ignored you not wanting specific calls to be discussed.

I think obvious flops should be called a foul and players who flop (called or not) should be fined after the league does video reviews of the questionable act. The reason I think only "obvious" flops should be called is: the refs would be even worse than they are now if they were forced to make the distinction between a flop/non-flop on the fly.

No worries. I just didn;t want this to turn into a me vs you thread with a bunch of arguments intermixed with a topic that as NBA fans we should really all want to address.

YoungOne
05-01-2012, 08:28 AM
in soccer refs can hand out yellow cards for obvious flopping. comparable to a technical foul in basketball I guess.

thenaj17
05-01-2012, 08:53 AM
They should just give technicals for obvious flopping. That way you don't only hurt yourself but also your team. Maybe this makes them think twice befor they fall to thr ground...
In soccer, when you get caught flopping, you get a yellow card, works fine! Those *****es get punished and make a fool out of themselves in front of the fans!

Fine in theory but a lot still go unpunished and others get wrongly accused of diving/flopping, when they did in fact get tripped.

The goods
05-01-2012, 09:34 AM
Clearly yes,how is this a mans game when players are flopping all over the place every time they get touched?

The goods
05-01-2012, 09:36 AM
Let's not make this about the heart they are far from the only ones doing it.

The goods
05-01-2012, 09:40 AM
Since we're talking about rule changes we need better refs they suck,they should make a rule that if a ref continues to make bad calls a player can walk up and hit them call it the rondo rule.
That'll keep these refs on their toes. Lol

episodenone
05-09-2012, 01:04 PM
Up. Since C-Webb called out Blake... might as well revive rather than see 5 new threads...