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View Full Version : Has any NBA coach lost his only star player for 39% of the season



Holydiver
04-26-2012, 11:37 AM
and still ended up with best record in the league?


I believe he lost Rose for 26 games this season.

26 / 66 = 39

bulldog312
04-26-2012, 11:45 AM
From a fellow Bulls fan, please do not make new threads like these in the NBA forum. PSD can't handle it.

iliketurtles24
04-26-2012, 11:53 AM
then are you saying rose isnt that good? or are you saying his supporting cast is just really good so he doesn't deserve mvp? Or do you think the success of the team is because the coach?

Just questions, dont jump down my throat.

LakersIn5
04-26-2012, 11:56 AM
then are you saying rose isnt that good? or are you saying his supporting cast is just really good so he doesn't deserve mvp? Or do you think the success of the team is because the coach?

Just questions, dont jump down my throat.

this.

NoahH
04-26-2012, 11:57 AM
Ok let's give the Bulls more credit. Flog a dead horse again.

Greet
04-26-2012, 11:58 AM
Can we also use this # to show that Rose isn't much needed.

sep11ie
04-26-2012, 11:58 AM
The intel I gained from this thread.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-26-2012, 11:58 AM
From a fellow Bulls fan, please do not make new threads like these in the NBA forum. PSD can't handle it.

An underlying shot.

Stop victimizing yourself.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-26-2012, 12:00 PM
Manu Ginobili has been gone for a while. Not sure if it's 39% though. And he's not his only star player.

justinnum1
04-26-2012, 12:01 PM
:facepalm:

Gators123
04-26-2012, 12:07 PM
This thread gets a 1 star rating.

justinnum1
04-26-2012, 12:09 PM
This thread gets a 1 star rating.

you cat give a half star?

LongIslandIcedZ
04-26-2012, 12:14 PM
All this will show people is that Rose wasn't as needed as everyone thought.

DerekRE_3
04-26-2012, 12:17 PM
Closest I can think of is Rick Adelman lost Chris Webber for most of the season during the 2003-2004 season. He had the ivory towers of Brad Miller and Vlade Divac. Between the two of them they averaged 10 assists a game.

They finished the year 55-27, but they could have won 60 games if Webber hadn't come back for the final 23 games. He wasn't 100% (never was again) and hurt the team when he came back. They were 11-12 with him playing, which means they were 44-15 without him.

They did have Peja though. He put up 24 points and 6 boards a game, shot 48% from the field and 43% from three.

justinnum1
04-26-2012, 12:25 PM
:violin:

Vincent
04-26-2012, 12:28 PM
Jordan's second season.

Cool007
04-26-2012, 12:38 PM
then are you saying rose isnt that good? or are you saying his supporting cast is just really good so he doesn't deserve mvp? Or do you think the success of the team is because the coach?

Just questions, dont jump down my throat.

1) He is not even in the MVP conversation THIS year.
2) Bulls team is good without Rose but GREAT WITH ROSE.
3) Thibs should be Coach of the year (Winningest pct to start the first 2 years).

Cool007
04-26-2012, 12:40 PM
Can we also use this # to show that Rose isn't much needed.

huh?

Bulls are 32-7 and WITH Rose. That's super ELITE team.

Bulls are 17-9 Without Rose, that is a good team but nowhere near how good it is WITH Rose.

lavilevi23
04-26-2012, 12:42 PM
Let's all stand together and cry out loud because the Bulls don't get the credit they deserve. :(
:facepalm:

cubbies7177
04-26-2012, 12:45 PM
then are you saying rose isnt that good? or are you saying his supporting cast is just really good so he doesn't deserve mvp? Or do you think the success of the team is because the coach?

Just questions, dont jump down my throat.

1. No
2. No
3. Yes

I love how you try to put a negative view on everything. Our success without Rose has proven our system. Can you say that the Spurs are better without Ginoblli? Can you blame any player for not doing "enough" if his coach has a good system?

I really don't understand... Rose was the MVP last year, and I don't understand why everyone hates it so much. He brought us from the 7th to 1st seed, and you have to admit that he played quite incredible last year for us. What did Lebron do for his team with a better supporting cast? Sometimes I feel like we emphasize stats too much here.. especially in regard to the MVP (which has a lot more intangibles involved IMO). And how can you even harp on supporting cast these days...

Potential MVP's for 2012:

Lebron (Supporting Cast = Wade, Bosh)
Durant (Supporting Cast = Westbrook, Harden)
Kobe (Supporting Cast = Bynum, Gasol)

Rose (Supporting Cast as of 2011 = Boozer (injured most of the season), JoNo (injured most of the season), Deng?)

as of 2011: ROSE HAD A MUCH WORSE SUPPORTING CAST THAN ALL OF 2012 CANDIDATES. So, I don't think it's fair to say that Rose doesn't deserve the MVP because of the Bench Mob. It's not his fault that Thibs actually knows how to use his bench correctly and efficiently.

Finally, though, YES. I think this season is entirely credited to Thibs and the Bench stepping up. The fact that we did that without Rose for most of the season is pretty incredible IMO. Pretty sure most teams couldn't have handled the injuries we had this season.

Now...More interesting question: What do you think the Heat would have done without Lebron/Chalmers for a 1/3 and 1/2 of the season (Chalmers = Rip in this comparison)? What about Durant/Sef.? Not trying to bait.. just see what you guys think.

PleaseBeNice
04-26-2012, 01:25 PM
Closest I can think of is Rick Adelman lost Chris Webber for most of the season during the 2003-2004 season. He had the ivory towers of Brad Miller and Vlade Divac. Between the two of them they averaged 10 assists a game.

They finished the year 55-27, but they could have won 60 games if Webber hadn't come back for the final 23 games. He wasn't 100% (never was again) and hurt the team when he came back. They were 11-12 with him playing, which means they were 44-15 without him.

They did have Peja though. He put up 24 points and 6 boards a game, shot 48% from the field and 43% from three.

Exactly what I thought clicking on this thread

5ass
04-26-2012, 01:36 PM
then are you saying rose isnt that good? or are you saying his supporting cast is just really good so he doesn't deserve mvp? Or do you think the success of the team is because the coach?

Just questions, dont jump down my throat.

1st of all owls are the ****, i dont know whats happening in ur sig but they look like they're having a good time lol

I remember last season when i told bulls fans that Rose doesnt deserve MVP because he doesnt mean as much to his team as other players. I said that the reason they have such a great record has a lot to do with their coach and great team. They tried to discredit every one on their team to make Rose look better, and bashed me so much it was hilarious. They said i was a troll, and i became hated in the bulls forum lol. Thank god they can now see what im talking about. Im not trying to start something here, but these guys know who they are.

iliketurtles24
04-26-2012, 01:38 PM
1. No
2. No
3. Yes

I love how you try to put a negative view on everything.

Im not being negative, im just being the devils advocate. I didn't say these were my views, i was just presenting opposing questions.

Becks2307
04-26-2012, 01:48 PM
1. No
2. No
3. Yes

I love how you try to put a negative view on everything. Our success without Rose has proven our system. Can you say that the Spurs are better without Ginoblli? Can you blame any player for not doing "enough" if his coach has a good system?

I really don't understand... Rose was the MVP last year, and I don't understand why everyone hates it so much. He brought us from the 7th to 1st seed, and you have to admit that he played quite incredible last year for us. What did Lebron do for his team with a better supporting cast? Sometimes I feel like we emphasize stats too much here.. especially in regard to the MVP (which has a lot more intangibles involved IMO). And how can you even harp on supporting cast these days...

Potential MVP's for 2012:

Lebron (Supporting Cast = Wade, Bosh)
Durant (Supporting Cast = Westbrook, Harden)
Kobe (Supporting Cast = Bynum, Gasol)

Rose (Supporting Cast as of 2011 = Boozer (injured most of the season), JoNo (injured most of the season), Deng?)

as of 2011: ROSE HAD A MUCH WORSE SUPPORTING CAST THAN ALL OF 2012 CANDIDATES. So, I don't think it's fair to say that Rose doesn't deserve the MVP because of the Bench Mob. It's not his fault that Thibs actually knows how to use his bench correctly and efficiently.

Finally, though, YES. I think this season is entirely credited to Thibs and the Bench stepping up. The fact that we did that without Rose for most of the season is pretty incredible IMO. Pretty sure most teams couldn't have handled the injuries we had this season.

Now...More interesting question: What do you think the Heat would have done without Lebron/Chalmers for a 1/3 and 1/2 of the season (Chalmers = Rip in this comparison)? What about Durant/Sef.? Not trying to bait.. just see what you guys think.

Ok hold up, the whole bulls team is a supporting cast, you can't just say that they don't have a second star because their whole team is made of third and fourth options. Lebron would do wonders with that bulls team imo.

new york blue
04-26-2012, 01:53 PM
Part of the reason is that in this pre-season shortened, back-to-back-to-back greedball season, team cohesion counts for a lot, since there was no time to integrate new players to a system. Also, lots of injuries all around, so the baseline is a bit skewed. Not sure that you say much about the generally crappy brand of ball we were subjected to this year.

smith&wesson
04-26-2012, 01:54 PM
what is an mvp ?

an mvp is a player who is most valuable to its team and success.

if a team achieves the same level of success with out that player would it indicate that perhaps he isnt the most valuable player ?

DaBear
04-26-2012, 01:56 PM
Of course Heat fans would be in here *****ing and moaning.

Lakers + Giants
04-26-2012, 01:58 PM
So he didn't really deserve MVP. .

sixer04fan
04-26-2012, 02:03 PM
:horse:

We get it. Rose was injured this year. Good for you guys to still get the number one seed. Congrats. What a great testament to your coach, the other players, and of course, most importantly, the Bulls fans on PSD.

pd1dish
04-26-2012, 02:08 PM
i think the point of the thread is just to give Thibs more credit because a lot of people are quick to choose Pop for COY. it wouldnt be a horrible choice, but im trying to be as objective as possible when considering awards like these (since we all have our biases), and i think Thibs easily deserves it the most.

whether you like Rose or not, he is the reigning MVP and has missed a great amount of the season. if you look at the Bulls lineup without Rose and looked at each individual matchup against a lot of the playoff teams, youd think to yourself that the Bulls have no shot at beating a lot of these teams. what gives the Bulls the advantage is great defense and teamwork which was brought about by COACHING. therefore, Thibs gets my vote and i expect him to be a back to back COY.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-26-2012, 02:09 PM
:facepalm:

:laugh2: I expected this

Audubon
04-26-2012, 02:23 PM
It means Rose is MVP, Thibs is an awesome coach. We have a deep team who plays hard and doesn't slack like other teams. Yep I said it.

ChicagoJ
04-26-2012, 02:30 PM
The fact that the bulls are still a great team without rose just means they are a solid unit and don't depend on one or a few guys for everything. As for the MVP last year, Rose deserved it. Many of those games were won because he was pulling those game out. This year other guys have stepped up more and are becoming the team that thibbs envisioned. Can't say enough on how great of a coach thibbs is. There is no other coach I'd rather have for my team.

Lakers + Giants
04-26-2012, 02:30 PM
It means Rose is MVP, Thibs is an awesome coach. We have a deep team who plays hard and doesn't slack like other teams. Yep I said it.

It actually means the opposite, if the team is still able to get the 1st seed without him then he's not the most VALUABLE player. There's other players on contending teams where if they went out the team would be noticeably weaker. For example, Lebron, Durant, Dwight, CP3, Tony Parker. Those players being hurt would make a huge difference in terms of their teams record. . . that's what the MVP is about.

Sly Guy
04-26-2012, 02:31 PM
and still ended up with best record in the league?


I believe he lost Rose for 26 games this season.

26 / 66 = 39

26/66!=39. 26/66=0.393939...

Psh.

JC_
04-26-2012, 02:39 PM
Bulls without Rose is insanely better than last year when they didn't know what do to if Rose wasn't in charge. That being said, Rose is a player who got better from practice, practice and more practice. When you are battling so many injuries and not playing, you don't get the workout that keeps all the facets of your game in shape. We'll see if the Bulls with Rose reverts back to last years Bulls if he doesn't play well during the playoffs.

Wrigheyes4MVP
04-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Closest I can think of is Rick Adelman lost Chris Webber for most of the season during the 2003-2004 season. He had the ivory towers of Brad Miller and Vlade Divac. Between the two of them they averaged 10 assists a game.

They finished the year 55-27, but they could have won 60 games if Webber hadn't come back for the final 23 games. He wasn't 100% (never was again) and hurt the team when he came back. They were 11-12 with him playing, which means they were 44-15 without him.

They did have Peja though. He put up 24 points and 6 boards a game, shot 48% from the field and 43% from three.

I remember that season.

Peja as unconcious that year. They were actually better off with Webber that year. I remember them dropping from the #1 seed to the #4 seed when Webber came back for the final 23 games. They just didn't have the same chemistry and they lost to Minnesota in the 2nd round.

Tough ending to that season, but that was a fun to to follow that year.

justinnum1
04-26-2012, 02:53 PM
15 votes for pop, 10 for thibs
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/COY-2012/2011-12-coach-year-is

effen5
04-26-2012, 03:01 PM
Do I have to do this again?

How many games could a team of
Cj Watson
Keith bogans
Taj Gibson
Luol deng
Kurt Thomas

Win? Because that was essentially the five rose was playing with.

DaBear
04-26-2012, 03:05 PM
The fact that the bulls are still a great team without rose just means they are a solid unit and don't depend on one or a few guys for everything. As for the MVP last year, Rose deserved it. Many of those games were won because he was pulling those game out. This year other guys have stepped up more and are becoming the team that thibbs envisioned. Can't say enough on how great of a coach thibbs is. There is no other coach I'd rather have for my team.

Haven't you learned? The past has everything to do with what is currently happening. Teams usually have great chemistry in their first year together.

DaBear
04-26-2012, 03:07 PM
It actually means the opposite, if the team is still able to get the 1st seed without him then he's not the most VALUABLE player. There's other players on contending teams where if they went out the team would be noticeably weaker. For example, Lebron, Durant, Dwight, CP3, Tony Parker. Those players being hurt would make a huge difference in terms of their teams record. . . that's what the MVP is about.

Rose isn't the MVP this year. However, he deserved the MVP last year because the Bulls wouldn't have been successful without him.

Raph12
04-26-2012, 03:33 PM
Just goes to show how good Thibs really is; and how undeserving Rose was for getting the MVP last season... 75.6 winning percentage last season, 75.4 this season; MVP! MVP! MVP! :rolleyes:

k.smith904
04-26-2012, 03:46 PM
Just goes to show how good Thibs really is; and how undeserving Rose was for getting the MVP last season... 75.6 winning percentage last season, 75.4 this season; MVP! MVP! MVP! :rolleyes:

Except you missed the part where Noah and Boozer missed a ton of games, leading to Rose having to do all the scoring, especially with Keith Blowgans as our starting guard.

RaiderLakersA's
04-26-2012, 03:48 PM
and still ended up with best record in the league?


I believe he lost Rose for 26 games this season.

26 / 66 = 39

For exactly 39% of the season??? Probably not.

Good job point this out. Someone give that man a cookie!

Raph12
04-26-2012, 03:57 PM
Except you missed the part where Noah and Boozer missed a ton of games, leading to Rose having to do all the scoring, especially with Keith Blowgans as our starting guard.

Rip was out for most of this season (played only 27 games) and Rose missed a shitload of games as well (played only 39 games); there are your two missing starters, yet Thibs gets the same winning percentage regardless... He's the most valuable asset on that Bulls team, plug in any other top 5 PG (CP3, Westbrook, DWill, Parker or Irving [yes I got Irving over "grandpa" Nash and Rajon "the brick" Rondo]) and that team is still as good, if not better.

Chronz
04-26-2012, 04:02 PM
Do I have to do this again?

How many games could a team of
Cj Watson
Keith bogans
Taj Gibson
Luol deng
Kurt Thomas

Win? Because that was essentially the five rose was playing with.
5?
Wheres Noah/Boozer because they werent out at the same time. Wheres the best defensive bench in the league?

How many games do YOU think that team wins?

Dwight was the MVP last year if we base it off replacement value.

Chronz
04-26-2012, 04:04 PM
Also this thread is a disgrace, no coach is THAT valuable. Thibs has maximized his talent but its not like hes the driving force, the players are.

k.smith904
04-26-2012, 04:07 PM
Also this thread is a disgrace, no coach is THAT valuable. Thibs has maximized his talent but its not like hes the driving force, the players are.

I think OP was just asking a simple yes or no question, when PSD naturally turned the fan on high and started hurling feces into it.

smiddy012
04-26-2012, 04:18 PM
Rip was out for most of this season (played only 27 games) and Rose missed a shitload of games as well (played only 39 games); there are your two missing starters, yet Thibs gets the same winning percentage regardless... He's the most valuable asset on that Bulls team, plug in any other top 5 PG (CP3, Westbrook, DWill, Parker or Irving [yes I got Irving over "grandpa" Nash and Rajon "the brick" Rondo]) and that team is still as good, if not better.

If you think that Bulls would be as good or better with Parker, Irving, or Westbrook instead of Rose you are mentally handicapped.

smiddy012
04-26-2012, 04:28 PM
5?
Wheres Noah/Boozer because they werent out at the same time.

Wheres the best defensive bench in the league?

How many games do YOU think that team wins?

Dwight was the MVP last year if we base it off replacement value.

Yes, they were injured at the same time for many games.

Starting! lol
EDIT - don't forget Brewer was injured for much of the season also. along with Korver's defense being no where near what it is today, he was a liability last season.

They'd be lucky to be 500... extremely lucky.

Dwight didn't make his team the top seed last season however. Nor was he the guy who continually won games for his team in the clutch with comebacks.

smiddy012
04-26-2012, 04:31 PM
I think OP was just asking a simple yes or no question, when PSD naturally turned the fan on high and started hurling feces into it.

It is a bait thread though...

Chronz
04-26-2012, 04:37 PM
I think OP was just asking a simple yes or no question, when PSD naturally turned the fan on high and started hurling feces into it.
I dont believe he was simply looking for the answer, its pretty obvious hes trying to draw attention to Thibs and take credit away from the individual performing the actual task. Why? I have no idea but if all he wanted to know was the answer of a question why not look it up?

These kind of questions dont spark debate because of their simplicity, so naturally PSD made the conversation interesting by getting to the meaning of such a question.

Chronz
04-26-2012, 04:42 PM
Yes, they were injured at the same time for many games.
Define many because I recall a few. The majority of the time one was on the floor.



Starting! lol
EDIT - don't forget Brewer was injured for much of the season also. along with Korver's defense being no where near what it is today, he was a liability last season.

I dont like how you casually throw around words like "many" and "much" to support your argument, the FACTS are Brewer missed 1 game that year. That deserves mentioning when speaking of the Bulls talent. Lets try sticking to honest evaluations plz.



They'd be lucky to be 500... extremely lucky.

Nah, thats the low bar. They go .500 at the MINIMUM. Their defense dictates so. You can win half your games with the best defense in the game alone.


Dwight didn't make his team the top seed last season however. Nor was he the guy who continually won games for his team in the clutch with comebacks.
Who says MVPs are suppose to go to the top seeded team? I clearly stated if we go by replacement value, its Dwights. EASILY. And it wasnt their offense that got them back into games so why are you crediting all the clutchness to Rose?

Cal827
04-26-2012, 04:44 PM
:laugh: Chalk another thread victory for Chronz. *****'s burnt up people. It's over. On to the next thread.

Chronz
04-26-2012, 04:46 PM
Just questions, dont jump down my throat.
Asks politely



I love how you try to put a negative view on everything. Our success without Rose has proven our system.....

And a biased/pointless rant ensues.


LOL

Cal827
04-26-2012, 04:49 PM
You know what: Since it's only a matter of time before Knick/Heat/Laker fans come in here and **** all over this, I'll start baiting:

Derrick Rose never deserved MVP. He's only a product of the system, and this season proved that Jon Lucas III could do his job adequately. Even without Rose, the team was atop the Eastern conference for the season.

:D:D:D

U Mad?

cubbies7177
04-26-2012, 05:05 PM
Also this thread is a disgrace, no coach is THAT valuable. Thibs has maximized his talent but its not like hes the driving force, the players are.

I would probably disagree. Having Pop or Thibs as a coach is worth so much.

With a bad coach - you have to win given the base talent you have
With a good coach - you have the opportunity to increase value of less talented players, therefore, increasing the team's best case.

Essentially, I feel that having a system (Spurs, Bulls) allows you to get more value out of bench/role players without paying any more money.

You put VDN/D'Antoni on the Bulls. Very, very different story IMO.

smiddy012
04-26-2012, 05:08 PM
Define many because I recall a few. The majority of the time one was on the floor.

Wish I knew where to find the stats. Even when either player was playing, after their initial injuries, they weren't near 100%. Joakim was a beast before he was injured and it even effected him into this season. Boozer's having a much better year this year with or without injuries.


I dont like how you casually throw around words like "many" and "much" to support your argument, the FACTS are Brewer missed 1 game that year. That deserves mentioning when speaking of the Bulls talent. Lets try sticking to honest evaluations plz.

Yeah you're right. My bad, he was coming off an injury the previous season, and it showed. That's why Thibbs didn't start him but one game of last season, because he was easing him into his PT. As opposed to this season, where Thibbs was comfortable starting Brewer.


Nah, thats the low bar. They go .500 at the MINIMUM. Their defense dictates so. You can win half your games with the best defense in the game alone.

KT/Taj/Deng/Bogans/Watson... shut Deng down and you effectively shut the offense down. That exact starting team would be lucky to be 500 IF they started every game. Now the team last season without Rose would probably be a little above 500, maybe sneaking into the playoffs.


Who says MVPs are suppose to go to the top seeded team? I clearly stated if we go by replacement value, its Dwights. EASILY. And it wasnt their offense that got them back into games so why are you crediting all the clutchness to Rose?

The fact that Rose alone, with defense of course, carried them to the top seed says something. Rose was a comeback machine last season, sorry I didn't write it down at the time but he led a good number of 4th quarter comebacks, games they would have surely lost without his offense. Last season they looked lost offensively when he wasn't in the game. The offensive burden he had to carry last season compared to this isn't even comparable. That said there is a good argument for DH as MVP last season, but he wasn't clutch offensively like Rose, nor did he lead his team to the top seed.

Chronz
04-26-2012, 05:12 PM
I would probably disagree. Having Pop or Thibs as a coach is worth so much.

With a bad coach - you have to win given the base talent you have
With a good coach - you have the opportunity to increase value of less talented players, therefore, increasing the team's best case.

Essentially, I feel that having a system (Spurs, Bulls) allows you to get more value out of bench/role players without paying any more money.

You put VDN/D'Antoni on the Bulls. Very, very different story IMO.
"The difference between the best coach and the worst coach isnt as drastic as the difference between the best player and the worst player" --- JVG

With a bad roster the best coach cant win

With a good roster the worst coach can win

Chronz
04-26-2012, 05:17 PM
Wish I knew where to find the stats. Even when either player was playing, after their initial injuries, they weren't near 100%. Joakim was a beast before he was injured and it even effected him into this season. Boozer's having a much better year this year with or without injuries.
I have seen the stats, even with them in diminished form, they are definitely more productive than the bums mentioned in the list.


Yeah you're right. My bad, he was coming off an injury the previous season, and it showed. That's why Thibbs didn't start him but one game of last season, because he was easing him into his PT. As opposed to this season, where Thibbs was comfortable starting Brewer.
Yup, thats why he should have been mentioned. Even a diminished Brewer helped spearhead the best defensive bench in the game.


KT/Taj/Deng/Bogans/Watson... shut Deng down and you effectively shut the offense down. That exact starting team would be lucky to be 500 IF they started every game. Now the team last season without Rose would probably be a little above 500, maybe sneaking into the playoffs.

You can have the worst offense in the league and win half your games so long as you have the best defense in the league. They are a .500 team at the MINIMUM.


The fact that Rose alone, with defense of course, carried them to the top seed says something.
It says hes not as valuable as the guy who meant more to his team on BOTH ends. Not just 1. Rose is deserving of the MVP but he wasnt MOST deserving is what Im saying.


Rose was a comeback machine last season, sorry I didn't write it down at the time but he led a good number of 4th quarter comebacks, games they would have surely lost without his offense. Last season they looked lost offensively when he wasn't in the game. The offensive burden he had to carry last season compared to this isn't even comparable. That said there is a good argument for DH as MVP last season, but he wasn't clutch offensively like Rose, nor did he lead his team to the top seed.

Again, Im arguing replacement value. Who says the MVP has to go to the first seed?

Chronz
04-26-2012, 05:25 PM
I take it back, Rose was damn clutch last year and deserves most of the credit for the Bulls victories in close games. Sadly the majority of their wins came by virtue of their elite defense so it still doesnt change my replacement value argument.

SteveNash
04-26-2012, 05:37 PM
Just proved my point. Rose isn't Chicago's best player. Biggest fraud MVP in history with his complete choke in the playoffs + more evidence this year. Bigger fraud awards since Miami's title.


Also this thread is a disgrace, no coach is THAT valuable. Thibs has maximized his talent but its not like hes the driving force, the players are.

My stats tell me replacing VDN with Thibs gives you 20 wins.

PleaseBeNice
04-26-2012, 05:41 PM
Fishing for compliments

Chronz
04-26-2012, 05:44 PM
My stats tell me replacing VDN with Thibs gives you 20 wins.
So the Clips would win 70 just like that?

SteveNash
04-26-2012, 05:54 PM
So the Clips would win 70 just like that?

Depending on how their offseason went I'd say they'd be near the 73 win mark.

Chronz
04-26-2012, 06:04 PM
Depending on how their offseason went I'd say they'd be near the 73 win mark.
Would you be interesting in snorting some cheez with me?.....



What ? Never snorted cheez, I swear its not as nonsensical as what you just wrote.

celtNYpatsHeels
04-26-2012, 06:08 PM
then are you saying rose isnt that good? or are you saying his supporting cast is just really good so he doesn't deserve mvp? Or do you think the success of the team is because the coach?

Just questions, dont jump down my throat.

BINGOOOOOO!!!!!! He got BINNNGGOOOOOO!!!!

mzgrizz
04-26-2012, 10:51 PM
Maybe I missed a post , but we were without ZBo for 37 of 66 games. Yes he wasn't our only star , but at the time he was our biggest. That's 56% of our games.

naps
04-27-2012, 01:30 AM
Just shows how underrated the Bulls team minus Rose is. All the credits had been handed to Rose for their regular season success, which was absolutely wrong. I am glad it's proved now.

smokeosama
04-27-2012, 04:20 AM
huh?

Bulls are 32-7 and WITH Rose. That's super ELITE team.

Bulls are 17-9 Without Rose, that is a good team but nowhere near how good it is WITH Rose.

I think a lot of people are missing this stat and/or reading over it...so I'll quote it again and peace out of this thread with this...That's an 82% winning percentage with Rose, 65% without. The original poster asked a question and people couldn't wait to flame.

Knicks21
04-27-2012, 04:49 AM
Those wins without rose weren't that good, they had the easiest schedule while he was out, and were only just beating average teams.

emman03
04-27-2012, 04:52 AM
why bulls fans talks too much and too much faith on themselves it's to cold here the wind is so strong don't fly too much if you fall it hurts a lot just keep your both foot on the ground like a true bull

try to think rose is in deng is out :D rose?

naps
04-27-2012, 04:59 AM
why bulls fans talks too much and too much faith on themselves it's to cold here the wind is so strong don't fly too much if you fall it hurts a lot just keep your both foot on the ground like a true bull

try to think rose is in deng is out :D rose?

WTF was that? You high?

LGhost
04-27-2012, 06:05 AM
wrong ****ing thread