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View Full Version : Why are alot of athletic guys bad defenders?



Valkyrie
04-24-2012, 06:23 PM
Amare, Blake Griffin, Tyrus Thomas, Michael Beasley, Travis outlaw, Andray Blatche, etc.. you get the point. If your'e really athletic, doesnt that give you the tools to play good defense? I mean, Amare is probably the worst in the league.

blastmasta26
04-24-2012, 06:26 PM
Laziness is usually a big factor. Some guys have terrible defensive awareness though, so they end up in foul trouble often or are horrible at picking up guys off switches and such. But most athletic guys are good man to man defenders when they are actually trying out there.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-24-2012, 06:26 PM
I have always thought tyrus was a good defender but really bad on offense:shrug:

Valkyrie
04-24-2012, 06:28 PM
Is he? I thought he was just a shot blocker

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-24-2012, 06:29 PM
Laziness is usually a big factor. Some guys have terrible defensive awareness though, so they end up in foul trouble often or are horrible at picking up guys off switches and such. But most athletic guys are good man to man defenders when they are actually trying out there.

your sig:laugh:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-24-2012, 06:30 PM
Is he? I thought he was just a shot blocker

I just checked that tyrus has -0.4 offensive WS in his career but int he other hand he has 13.3 defensive WS:speechless:

LongIslandIcedZ
04-24-2012, 06:31 PM
Defense is about wanting it. Every guy you listed could potentially be a great defender if they worked hard and wanted it.

Valkyrie
04-24-2012, 06:33 PM
I just checked that tyrus has -0.4 offensive WS in his career but int he other hand he has 13.3 defensive WS:speechless:

hmm i dont know about advanced stats like win shares and stuff like that... i never look at those

Raph12
04-24-2012, 06:34 PM
IQ, footwork, lateral quickness, discipline, awareness, focus, motivation and effort... Defense isn't just about bodying guys up and being long/athletic a la Bynum.

tcav701
04-24-2012, 06:38 PM
Effort, reaction time and intelligence are key components of defense.

Most of the great defenders of all time have a very high basketball IQ.

Ebbs
04-24-2012, 06:43 PM
Defense is about wanting it. Every guy you listed could potentially be a great defender if they worked hard and wanted it.

I think this to an extent. Defense is IQ + desire

D-Leethal
04-24-2012, 06:48 PM
People act like if you try on D your gonna be a good defender. Good defense, while having hustle as a prerequisite, is a skill. Its not something anyone can do.

Amare is explosive as hell but he is extremely stiff and has some of the most non-fluid lateral movement I have ever seen. He has no defensive awareness which comes down to his overall basketball IQ which is also a skill. He has crappy peripheral vision and never has no idea where his man is on the court. He gets lost every single time in transition and needs Tyson to slap him across the head and point to his man.

Being a great individual and team defender takes an abundance of SKILLS and SMARTS. More than just being athletic.

NYY 26 to 7
04-24-2012, 06:49 PM
As an individual defender it would be laziness and attitude of wanting to stop someone more than they want to score. IQ would factor in on team D (which is mostly Amar'e problem) being out of positioning not knowing when to switch(too much switching is also lazy another Amar'e issue) or not knowing when to help and where to be help side. Amar'e could be a good defender but in his own words he "was never taught defense". I would say his issue specifically was in high school I'm sure all he did was stand in the lane and block shots then went to the league and played for D'Antoni who doesn't know there is a defensive aspect to the game and doeasn't teach it (Amar'es words). And he was never on a team with a verteran leader who demanded everyone play D so he doesn't have the attitude because no coach or older leaders ever taught him or demanded him to D up.

GunFactor187
04-24-2012, 07:10 PM
It's because they only rely on their athletics and think that will just get them by, defense is and takes skill to do, that's why guys like (not being a homer or anything) Greg Monroe will flourish long term because he isn't so athletic so he has to be skilled or else he isn't going to be successful.

tcav701
04-24-2012, 07:20 PM
Same reason super athletic guys dont make great NFL QBs....

They are dumb as ****.

MrfadeawayJB
04-24-2012, 08:15 PM
Its a want to thing

dnl123
04-24-2012, 08:30 PM
It's not all about "wanting it". Great defenders have great court vision just like great passers do. They see the passing lanes and anticipate what is going to happen before it does.

Bigdaddyburch
04-24-2012, 08:33 PM
Humm Jordan was a great defender.

RiLoc
04-24-2012, 08:39 PM
Many of the All-Defensive Team players are athletic; D12, Iggy, LeBron, Kobe, Gerald Wallace, JSmith, Wade, etc. I don't think there is a correlation. Many players rely on athleticism at all levels of sports, many players rely on a special skill and/or smart play. You don't see non-athletic people without a special skill or smart play, because then they wouldn't be in the NBA. It's not like person X grows up athletic therefore he can't play smart or play defense or whatever.

Ezio
04-24-2012, 08:53 PM
Is like asking why McGee is a great defensive player but offensively he sucks.

Swashcuff
04-24-2012, 09:21 PM
Aside from natural physical ability, wanting it, all the defensive skills etc etc etc you have to have a great IQ and know how to put that to use. There are elite defensive players who have now started using various advanced metrics of their opposing number as a key part of their personal scouting report for said player.

Some of these guys plan way ahead of time against each player learning how they play and how they should be played. Some of those gr

Prior to last season Amar'e admitted that he put more work in on his D than at any time prior in his career and it showed to an extent in his shot blocking for the Knicks but he still shied away from contact in the post and really isn't the banging type down in there. While Amar'e may have played better defense he still was a piss poor defender.

There is way more to playing D than being athletic and committing yourself on that end of the floor. Luis Scola not the most athletic commits himself greatly on D. However that hasn't made him a good defender. Maybe makes him look good in the eyes of those who haven't seen him play quite often but he really isn't very effective on that end of the floor.

Swashcuff
04-24-2012, 09:22 PM
Is like asking why McGee is a great defensive player but offensively he sucks.

McGee isn't even good defensively much less for being great. He's a poor defensive player but a good shot blocker. Much like Amar'e last season.

LakersIn5
04-24-2012, 09:28 PM
dwight, rose., josh smith, ibaka

JesusNYY_Savior
04-24-2012, 09:32 PM
Laziness is usually a big factor. Some guys have terrible defensive awareness though, so they end up in foul trouble often or are horrible at picking up guys off switches and such. But most athletic guys are good man to man defenders when they are actually trying out there.

your sig has got to be a fake account, right.... right?

InRoseWeTrust
04-24-2012, 09:44 PM
Simple answer: they grew up dominating the game by relying on their athleticism as opposed to learning the intricacies of the game. Thus, they don't come into the NBA with the requisite "defensive IQ" to succeed immediately on that end of the floor.

blastmasta26
04-24-2012, 09:50 PM
your sig has got to be a fake account, right.... right?

lol I wish it was a fake.

Swashcuff
04-24-2012, 09:50 PM
dwight, rose., josh smith, ibaka

Josh Smith, Rose, Dwight, Ibaka really aren't the worlds greatest individual defenders however.

Chuck Hayes is better individually than all those bigs and he isn't known for his athleticism.

IndyRealist
04-24-2012, 10:27 PM
Because, in general, playing defense doesn't get you paid. Scoring points does. If you've known since middle school that you were on track to an NBA career, what are you going to focus on? Being a Bruce Bowen type role player making the MLE at best, or a Danny Granger type scorer making over $10M/yr? Carlos Boozer makes $13.5M/yr, Marcin Gortat makes $6.7M/yr. Thabo Sefolosha makes $3.3M, while Ben Gordon makes $11.6M. Yet who would you rather have?

There are always exceptions to the rule (Tyson Chandler, Andre Igoudala), but in general scorers make tons more cash than defenders do. So there's no incentive to work on your defensive skills instead of your jump shot.

KB24PG16
04-24-2012, 10:59 PM
most of the time its effort

mdm692
04-24-2012, 11:19 PM
Defense is not just about strength or athletic ability its about very high basketball iq and understanding angles in the court. How can i give the guy im guarding the less room to work with without me getting burned?

ManningToTyree
04-24-2012, 11:21 PM
Lack of Bball IQ and Effort plain and simple. If you are in the NBA you most likely have the physical attributes to defend, but you have to understand defenses and have the desire.

PlayDPlease
04-24-2012, 11:25 PM
Some guys don't have the lateral quickness, hand speed and wing span to be good.

Even if they are great athletes and great players

Sadds The Gr8
04-24-2012, 11:27 PM
add Derozan to this list.

smood999
04-24-2012, 11:29 PM
just cause someone is long, strong and could jump through the roof doesnt mean they necessarily have the lateral quickness...want and just knowing how to play defense also goes into it...but lateral quickness has a lot to do with it as well esp when ur talking about big men...

alot of guards and wing players u can attribute it to laziness...but someone like amare who u can tell is actually trying at times but just simply lacks the lateral quickness..he may be fast sprinting up the court but side to side not so much

Valkyrie
04-24-2012, 11:49 PM
add Derozan to this list.

lol. he cant be that bad
right

TO Rapz
04-24-2012, 11:52 PM
lol. he cant be that bad
right

You would think so, but he's bad. Trust me.

Sadds The Gr8
04-24-2012, 11:55 PM
lol. he cant be that bad
right

nah, he's ****in horrible.

Valkyrie
04-24-2012, 11:56 PM
hmmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ5wDKsiRTo

lol

knicks4life33
04-25-2012, 12:16 AM
Isnt dwight howard athletic and won dpoy lol

Bruno
04-25-2012, 12:30 AM
it takes a good basketball IQ to be able to handle communication, switches, team schemes and assignments. lack of one-on-one lock down may come due to a lack of genuine effort, but a lot of it comes down to IQ. lets face it, there are a lot of people in the NBA who aren't x/o geniuses, who make it solely of their athletic ability.

Raph12
04-25-2012, 12:41 AM
Josh Smith, Rose, Dwight, Ibaka really aren't the worlds greatest individual defenders however.

Chuck Hayes is better individually than all those bigs and he isn't known for his athleticism.

Dwight is a better 1v1 defender than Chuck or any other big, he's also a better wing defender than any big...

dodie53
04-25-2012, 04:55 AM
laziness

kdspurman
04-25-2012, 10:09 AM
Have to have a certain mindset. Some of these guys just want highlights

pebloemer
04-25-2012, 10:20 AM
add Derozan to this list.

Definitely.

To answer the thread. Athleticism is a great aid to defense but not a pre-requisite. There is a lot of other player qualities involved (experience, awareness, instincts, effort, teammates, coaching, etc).

Swashcuff
04-25-2012, 02:02 PM
Dwight is a better 1v1 defender than Chuck or any other big, he's also a better wing defender than any big...

No he's not Chuck Hayes is better on the perimeter and individually than Dwight is.

aztr0
04-25-2012, 04:01 PM
Never thought Blatche was athletic. Always thought Tyrus Thomas was known for D... but whatever. Defense is about desire. You either want to play it or not.

JEDean89
04-25-2012, 04:29 PM
there are many different types of defense. perimiter, interior, team, help defense all make up the type of defender a player is. but the coach truly makes a player a good defender and it is why we think of good defenders as great defenders on good defensive teams. the bulls, celtics, spurs, 76ers are all stacked with players we consider to be good defenders, but stick a guy like luol deng on a George Karl team (a coach who laughs at defense) and see if he is considered a great defender. When Mike Woodson took over the Knicks, it was scary how much better he made the Knicks defense. Sure Amare sucks at defense, but he is the starting PF on the team with the 5th best defensive efficiency in the league. that is the difference between Mike Woodson and Mike Dantoni. if i want the best defense in the league, i'm taking the best defensive coach first, not he best defensive player. Orlando has the 13th best defense in the league, the Bulls have the best and don't have a single all defensive team player.

Raph12
04-25-2012, 06:05 PM
No he's not Chuck Hayes is better on the perimeter and individually than Dwight is.

No he's not, Chuck is slow and struggles to move his feet to guard the perimeter wings; Chuck has held opponent's to 0.71PPP, Dwight holds guys to 0.73PPP in the post, but the difference is that that Dwight holds them to a lower FG% and a higher tov%, he just has a higher foul rate because he's so aggressive... The difference in PPP isn't nearly significant enough to call Chuck a better 1v1 defender and when you factor Opponent's PER, it's not even close.