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View Full Version : Why dont more players around Lebron excel?



Rain City
04-24-2012, 02:37 PM
Lebron is a dominant player, he is a great passer, tremendous feel for the game, his presence diverts alot of attention from his teammates and he plays within a team concept. I cant think of hardly anybody that has really benefitted playing with lebron.

Here is a list of talented players that either flopped or failed to live up to expectations playing with Lebron, when you would think they could have had career years or close to it playing with an MVP who is known for being a great team player.

Moe Williams
Larry Hughes
Drew Gooden
Norris Cole
Shane Battier
Anthony Parker
jamario moon
Shaq
Antawn Jamison

Guys that maybe refute this claim
Ilgauskus
Varajeo
Delonte West (i know what you are thinking)
Mario Chalmers

Is this an illusion that Lebron, albeit being an unselfish player, doesnt make teammates better. Im curious to know.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-24-2012, 02:46 PM
Because most of them just watch and stand in the corner and just wait for him to do his thing until he penetrates and kicks it out to them wide open in the corner or at the top of the key. LeBron does all the work and the role players are basically spoon-fed everything.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2012, 02:52 PM
they are all average to below average players, or over the hill. Mike Brown is also not exactly an offensive wizard, so he just put the ball in Bron's hands, and asked everyone else to chill and hit open shots when asked to. Works great until you get deep into the playoffs where the great defensive teams force the role players to create for themselves, something they weren't capable of doing.

Joshtd1
04-24-2012, 03:00 PM
All the guys you listed are either average role players or guys that were past their prime...

haggis
04-24-2012, 03:01 PM
Norris Cole is so good he got listed twice.

Slug3
04-24-2012, 03:16 PM
Not only did you list Norris Cole, but you put him twice. Also a lot of these players were just never good to begin with, or on the downside of their career. Also Z, Varajeo and Mo all did pretty good with him.

krazylegz
04-24-2012, 03:27 PM
if i remember right....delonte west was the one who stepped up in the playoffs for the cavs in 2010....not lebron!!

Becks2307
04-24-2012, 03:28 PM
mo williams made an all star game because of lebron lol

MO WILLIAMS!

davids22
04-24-2012, 03:30 PM
All of those player's arn't THAT good. Mario Chalmers and Mo Williams are probably the best listed. To say he doesn't make Mario better is debatable; dude's actually having a decent year for being a role player on the team.

Lebron just didn't have a reliable 2nd option in Cleveland; I think that's pretty obvious now when we look back. Some may argue that he had Shaq, but he had old and beat-up Shaq who only played 20 minutes a game and missed half of the regular season.

If you look back to the 2009-2010 Cavs team that had the #1 seed and lost to Boston in the semis, not a single player on that Cavs starting lineup starts in the NBA anymore besides Antawn Jamison. Mo Williams starts in LAC now but he's their 6th man and only starts because Chauncey Billups is down.

Lebron literally was that entire team. But Lebron has no excuses anymore. He got what he wanted (and got Bosh thrown in too). So he needs to get it done. One could argue that he makes D-Wade a better player (or vice versa). They play off each others strengths and weaknesses and are pretty much best friends in real life, so you know there won't be any communication issues like there was in Cleveland (*cough* Delonte)

BigBlueCrew
04-24-2012, 03:31 PM
I wonder when Chris Bosh is gonna make this list :rolleyes:

naps
04-24-2012, 03:44 PM
You can't be ****ing serious. If LeBron doesn't make anyone better then no superstar in the history of basketball made anyone better. He's god himself making teammates look good. I mean he made Mo ****ing Williams an allstar and you listed Mo on the list that didn't excel? Most of your list made of washed up players. But I get what you are trying to achieve from this thread. Good luck.

Rain City
04-24-2012, 03:45 PM
mo williams made an all star game because of lebron lol

MO WILLIAMS!

One of the most undeserving All star nods ever. Moe came over to Cleveland from Milwaukee where he was a focal point of the offense and his scoring stayed the same, his FG%, assists, steals all went down, and than the 2nd year went down again....It is not like he took a diminished role with Cleveland, he was supposed to be the number 2 option, he was 25, I was surpised he didnt become a 20pts per game scorer, the opportunity was there, also that his FG% went down considerably (albeit more accurate from 3).

I think a decent point was made that it has something to do with his coach's ineptitude at coaching offensive basketball.

Also, Chris Bosh could be a candidate to be on this list but i think most people expected his numbers to drop some playing with Lebron AND Wade.

mRc08
04-24-2012, 03:45 PM
To be fair, most of the players on that list are either not that good in general, or weren't that good playing with lebron. To really see if other players benefit playing with him you have to look at the current heat team. Has wade excelled? I would say yes. Has Bosh? well not as much as people would have thought. I think most people would have figured bosh's scoring would have decreased going to miami considering he's going to be the third option, but has the rest of his game and efficency increased playing with lebron?

When i look at that list, i cant blame lebron for making those players better.

Trueblue2
04-24-2012, 03:45 PM
Mo Williams?

smith&wesson
04-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Lebron is a dominant player, he is a great passer, tremendous feel for the game, his presence diverts alot of attention from his teammates and he plays within a team concept. I cant think of hardly anybody that has really benefitted playing with lebron.

Here is a list of talented players that either flopped or failed to live up to expectations playing with Lebron, when you would think they could have had career years or close to it playing with an MVP who is known for being a great team player.

Moe Williams
Larry Hughes
Drew Gooden
Norris Cole
Shane Battier
Anthony Parker
jamario moon
Shaq
Antawn Jamison

Guys that maybe refute this claim
Ilgauskus
Varajeo
Delonte West (i know what you are thinking)
Mario Chalmers

Is this an illusion that Lebron, albeit being an unselfish player, doesnt make teammates better. Im curious to know.

if i recall correctly he took alot of those players to the finals. you dont go to the finals with varagao, gooden, hughes, etc with out making those guys better. i beleive he took one of the worst rosters to the nba finals. that says alot.

theheatles
04-24-2012, 04:02 PM
close this nonsense

Chronz
04-24-2012, 04:17 PM
Moe Williams
Larry Hughes
Drew Gooden
Norris Cole
Shane Battier
Anthony Parker
jamario moon
Shaq
Antawn Jamison

Can you explain some of these? Like Mo, dude was selected to an All-Star all because of Bron.



Is this an illusion that Lebron, albeit being an unselfish player, doesnt make teammates better. Im curious to know.
Ive wondered that for years too. Same with Rondo. Its possible but some of those guys you listed arent making sense to me.

Chronz
04-24-2012, 04:21 PM
One of the most undeserving All star nods ever.

True


Moe came over to Cleveland from Milwaukee where he was a focal point of the offense and his scoring stayed the same, his FG%, assists, steals all went down, and than the 2nd year went down again....It is not like he took a diminished role with Cleveland, he was supposed to be the number 2 option, he was 25, I was surpised he didnt become a 20pts per game scorer, the opportunity was there, also that his FG% went down considerably (albeit more accurate from 3).
FG% going down is a result of the added 3's he took, the tradeoff was a more efficient and productive player.

Rain City
04-24-2012, 04:22 PM
if i recall correctly he took alot of those players to the finals. you dont go to the finals with varagao, gooden, hughes, etc with out making those guys better. i beleive he took one of the worst rosters to the nba finals. that says alot.

Cant dispute that at all....Lebron wins despite average play from the guys around him. What I want to know is why these average players do not play better with Lebron.

Why did larry hughes, who was an up and coming star in the league, why did his stats tank when he joined Lebron? Perhaps he woulda tanked anyways. Drew Gooden was a former top 5 pick in his prime and his numbers dipped, you look at Kobe and guys like Lamar and Bynum develop into stars, Ariza and Fish were great role players, Lebron just has role players.

I think it is possible Lebron just hasnt had guys that can step up, Wade is out of this debate because he is a super star with or without him, but rarely do u see an unsung guy step up with lebron when it happens all the time on other teams, it should be easier for a teammate of lebron due to his greatness right?

The lack of offensive philosophy could be another reason, but personally I think lebron is too buddy buddy with his guys and puts everything on his shoulders. Kobe, KG, Duncan ride their teammates, hold them accountable and their intensity rubs off, but than angain Kobe, KG and Duncan have had great coaches, something Lebron cant say.

Rain City
04-24-2012, 04:27 PM
True


FG% going down is a result of the added 3's he took, the tradeoff was a more efficient and productive player.

actually his 3pt FGAs stayed the same, his % went UP!, but his FG% went down...meaning he took alot of erratic shots in half court (probably more mike browns fault)....Wouldnt you think a guy in the prime of his career who is a star player on a bad team would go play with Lebron and benefit?....his numbers didnt get any better ...I remember when they got him i was thinking he was going to average 20+, that is what they needed....Same thing with Larry Hughes but worse.....

LTS
04-24-2012, 04:34 PM
close this nonsense

2nd

Chronz
04-24-2012, 04:41 PM
actually his 3pt FGAs stayed the same, his % went UP!,
Umm what? He took 3.5 a game in Milwauke and 5.2 in Cleveland.



but his FG% went down...meaning he took alot of erratic shots in half court (probably more mike browns fault)....Wouldnt you think a guy in the prime of his career who is a star player on a bad team would go play with Lebron and benefit?....his numbers didnt get any better ...I remember when they got him i was thinking he was going to average 20+, that is what they needed....Same thing with Larry Hughes but worse.....

His numbers may not have skyrocketed but his stats did get better, his efficiency jumped up despite the uptick in usage so I think its fair to say he didnt play worse.

As for Hughes, he was in a contract year and struggled with injuries his entire stay, even when he left Cleveland he didnt get any better.

DODGERS&LAKERS
04-24-2012, 08:29 PM
if i recall correctly he took alot of those players to the finals. you dont go to the finals with varagao, gooden, hughes, etc with out making those guys better. i believe he took one of the worst rosters to the NBA finals. that says alot.

You always have to consider the talent they played against to get there. AI got a crap roster to the finals, JKidd got two crap rosters to the finals back to back years. Someone had to come out of the east. So making the finals then is not such a big deal. They got put in their place once they faced the first real team they saw in the playoffs. So getting to the finals with a crap roster does not mean he "made his teammates better" Some guys just get lucky with the talent they have to play against.


As far as what he has done for Wade and Bosh, they are having average to below average years. Wade had his 5th and 6th best years of his 9 year career these past two years with Bron.

Bosh is having his 3rd and 4th worst years of his career the past two years according to the limited stat of PER and win shares. I just though I would add that since everyone was commenting on the scrubs that the OP listed. Wade and Bosh have not lit it up even with the unselfishness of James. Why is this the case? I have no idea.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html

Rain City
04-24-2012, 08:53 PM
close this nonsense

if u cant take criticism of your guys than get outta here....its obvious why u feel that looking at your name.

NoahH
04-24-2012, 09:02 PM
mo williams made an all star game because of lebron lol

MO WILLIAMS!

This

Blitzbolt
04-24-2012, 09:05 PM
On Shane Battier

I love the guy but he is one year to old and his 3 point shot is getting worst and worst a I'm Grizz fan I'm glad he left.Great Guy but he is done.

justinnum1
04-24-2012, 09:09 PM
norris cole is a joke

pakyofivetimes
04-24-2012, 09:22 PM
Because they always rely to Lebron. They don't take big shots or carry the team in the clutch. Just Lebron doing all things. I think that makes the Cavs (Lebron's Cavs) 1 man team afterall.

Gibby
04-24-2012, 09:53 PM
Mo williams was an all star, so how did he not excel?

billsftw
04-24-2012, 09:55 PM
i would like to see lebron under an offensive minded coach for a change

Method28
04-25-2012, 02:36 AM
Well when Brons mom is doing his teammates im guessing its hard to focus for them

dodie53
04-25-2012, 04:07 AM
when lebron averages double digits in assists then maybe, people will be happy and say that he makes players around him better