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View Full Version : Dwight's Defensive Impact



5ass
04-24-2012, 01:57 PM
Statistics show just how badly the Orlando Magic's defense has struggled without Dwight Howard.

The Magic limited opponents to 43.8 percent shooting in the 54 games Howard played this season.

But the Magic have allowed opponents to shoot 50.5 percent in the 10 games without their All-Star center.

Just how bad is that relative to the rest of the league? Consider this: The Sacramento Kings entered Monday with the worst field-goal percentage defense in the NBA, but they have allowed opponents to shoot "just" 47.6 percent.

"I don't know what the answer is," coach Stan Van Gundy said after the Magic lost to the Denver Nuggets 101-74 Sunday night. "But we simply can't guard anyone."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-23/sports/os-orlando-magic-news-0224-20120423_1_daniel-orton-dwight-howard-magic-opponents

I remember about a couple of weeks ago in the DPOY thread i suggested that Dwight should still get the award because no player has as much impact defensively. Most people argued that he shouldn't get it because the Magic were only 9th ranked in defensive efficiency instead of their usual top 5 position in previous years. I said that the reason that happened is because we don't have any defensive players to help Dwight anymore. I said that if the Magic didn't have Howard, they'd be one of the worse defensive team in the league.

The Magic are now 3-7 without Howard and with him 33-21.

NOTE: If you're just coming into this thread to bash Howard, or talk about the trade drama, or ask if this is "thread worthy", do every one a favor and keep it to yourself. There are enough threads about bashing Dwight. Im sure some idiot will still post something along these lines though. Also mods i ask you dont move this to the DPOY thread because im going to add a poll and see if this article changes any ones opinion.

justinnum1
04-24-2012, 02:04 PM
chandler won it

5ass
04-24-2012, 02:20 PM
Ya im pretty sure Chandler will win it, but i still think Dwight deserves it most.

JasonJohnHorn
04-24-2012, 02:36 PM
Just going to say this. It doesn't matter what this guy has done on the court this season, because everything he has done off the court has detracted from it. He is really the anti-MVP this season in my eyes. Has served as nothing but a distraction for his team. Obviously he wasn't comitted to SVG as a coach, so he, in turn, isn't committed to the players on the court. Everybody has to be on the same page, and this season, Dwight has clearly not been on the same page.

I'd give the award to Chandler this season. The Knicks defensive turnaround is huge, and after what he did for the Mavs it proves that he is worthy of the award two years running now. His defence won a championship last year, he should have won it then. This year he has had as huge an impact on the Knicks as Garnett had on the C's when he came there.

As for Dwight, I'm honestly sick of hearing about him.

5ass
04-24-2012, 02:48 PM
Just going to say this. It doesn't matter what this guy has done on the court this season, because everything he has done off the court has detracted from it. He is really the anti-MVP this season in my eyes. Has served as nothing but a distraction for his team. Obviously he wasn't comitted to SVG as a coach, so he, in turn, isn't committed to the players on the court. Everybody has to be on the same page, and this season, Dwight has clearly not been on the same page.

I'd give the award to Chandler this season. The Knicks defensive turnaround is huge, and after what he did for the Mavs it proves that he is worthy of the award two years running now. His defence won a championship last year, he should have won it then. This year he has had as huge an impact on the Knicks as Garnett had on the C's when he came there.

As for Dwight, I'm honestly sick of hearing about him.

honestly its unfair ur discrediting everything dwight has done on the court for something that just looks a million times worse because of the media.

5ass
04-24-2012, 02:49 PM
Most of his teammates dont give a **** about winning, otherwise they'd give better effort on D. So dont tell me he failed his teammates.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-24-2012, 03:19 PM
That happens when you have Big Baby starting at center

Raph12
04-24-2012, 03:25 PM
We've allowed over 50% shooting in 8 of the 10 games without Dwight; we only allowed 50+% in 8 of 54 games with Dwight this season... Nuff said.

valade16
04-24-2012, 03:48 PM
Most of his teammates dont give a **** about winning, otherwise they'd give better effort on D. So dont tell me he failed his teammates.

It's not like they'd suddenly be good defenders if they tried harder, they are just bad defenders...

Dwight's impact on the defensive end is insane. At this point his off the court distractions will be enough justification for most voters to feel at least somewhat vindicated in picking someone else if only to disrupt the monotony that would come from picking Dwight 8 straight years.

Iron24th
04-24-2012, 03:59 PM
That happens when you have Big Baby starting at center

This.

SteveNash
04-24-2012, 04:08 PM
That happens when you have Big Baby starting at center

This.

Orlando should have kept Gortat.

Eagles4Lyfe
04-24-2012, 04:13 PM
Seriously why do people keep bringing up how he's done of the court, the fact of the matter is skill and talent wise the dude is an animal and hard to contain. Who cares what people think of him of the court as long as on the court hes producing and not tanking it and he's still had beastly numbers this year.
His last real game playing this year when he played the full minutes he had like 20 points and 20 boards. No matter what anyone says I'd still take this guy on my team anyday

Chronz
04-24-2012, 04:14 PM
That happens when you have Big Baby starting at center

Chicken Dinner

sep11ie
04-24-2012, 04:21 PM
Is this thread worthy?

Raph12
04-24-2012, 04:23 PM
That happens when you have Big Baby starting at center

This.

Orlando should have kept Gortat.

Chicken Dinner

With Dwight playing only 38mpg, this team was top 7-10 defensively this season (before his injury)... Just tells you how impactful he has been, without him, the Magic allow the highest FG% of any team in the league (by far).

Chronz
04-24-2012, 04:50 PM
With Dwight playing only 38mpg, this team was top 7-10 defensively this season (before his injury)... Just tells you how impactful he has been, without him, the Magic allow the highest FG% of any team in the league (by far).

Whats it tell me again? And what does that have to do with my post?

5ass
04-24-2012, 07:06 PM
That happens when you have Big Baby starting at center

Well you also have to take into consideration that Hedo also went down for most of these games and replaced his defensive liability with our 2 best defenders (outside of dwight) Clark and Q-rich, so if Hedo was playing we'd be even worse. Also dont forget that Baby still gets 10-12 mpg every night at back up C.

5ass
04-24-2012, 07:22 PM
It's not like they'd suddenly be good defenders if they tried harder, they are just bad defenders...

Dwight's impact on the defensive end is insane. At this point his off the court distractions will be enough justification for most voters to feel at least somewhat vindicated in picking someone else if only to disrupt the monotony that would come from picking Dwight 8 straight years.

I dont care how u slice it, you can be a good defender by doing just 2 things.
1) give more effort on that end in the court
2) come prepared (watch tape, know ur opponent)

5ass
04-24-2012, 07:27 PM
bump attempt #1

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-24-2012, 07:33 PM
The only thing Dwight try to defend this year was himself. He didn't give a damn about his teammates, the coaching staff or the organization. So on that account, yes, he should win the DEFENSIVE player of the year award.

5ass
04-24-2012, 07:39 PM
The only thing Dwight try to defend this year was himself. He didn't give a damn about his teammates, the coaching staff or the organization. So on that account, yes, he should win the DEFENSIVE player of the year award.

Im sorry, but thats a completely baseless claim, Dwight hurt his back and still played in that philly game. He agitated his injury in the same game before half time playing incredible defense on iggy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5xKzEZHvHo), but the guy still dropped 20-20 and won us the game.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-24-2012, 07:43 PM
Im sorry, but thats a completely baseless claim, Dwight hurt his back and still played in that philly game. He agitated his injury in the same game before half time playing incredible defense on iggy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5xKzEZHvHo), but the guy still dropped 20-20 and won us the game.
You can talk about stats all you want, but he messed up their chemistry.

5ass
04-24-2012, 07:46 PM
You can talk about stats all you want, but he messed up their chemistry.

messed up their chemistry? True professionals shut up and play, dwight did that. Dwight was injured and still gave more effort than any other player on the magic.

jimm120
04-24-2012, 07:48 PM
With Dwight playing only 38mpg, this team was top 7-10 defensively this season (before his injury)... Just tells you how impactful he has been, without him, the Magic allow the highest FG% of any team in the league (by far).

I think he's the best defensive player also, but these stats are kinda skewed. The games without him weren't just "games without Dwight". They've had a lot of other distractions (dwight wanting trade, dwight signing on for another year, dwight wanting stan out, other players sticking with the coach, Dwight opting for surgery instead of coming back...seemingly purposefully). All of these things, I feel, greatly contributed to how bad they're playing.

A lot of it is Dwight not being there, but a lot of it is all the other distractions caused by dwight.


EDIT:

Ah, I see kbpau brought up my point. This isn't just a team missing their defensive big man, its a team that's missing their defensive big man amid reports that he decided not to play the rest of the year for Stan, so he opted for surgery. Reports. Also, that he'll request his trade demand again. That's just a bad way to leave the team.

5ass
04-24-2012, 07:52 PM
I think he's the best defensive player also, but these stats are kinda skewed. The games without him weren't just "games without Dwight". They've had a lot of other distractions (dwight wanting trade, dwight signing on for another year, dwight wanting stan out, other players sticking with the coach, Dwight opting for surgery instead of coming back...seemingly purposefully). All of these things, I feel, greatly contributed to how bad they're playing.

A lot of it is Dwight not being there, but a lot of it is all the other distractions caused by dwight.

those "distractions" were already there when dwight was playing.

ysizz
04-24-2012, 07:53 PM
Yes he should win he still the best defensive big in the game. All the other candidates has more help than him. People act as if he's the first player to ask for the coach to be fired or to be traded at the end of the day if he becomes available every team will still want him. Like everything in the media people just jump on it because they have no better argument

Punk
04-24-2012, 08:15 PM
Sorry but a guy who takes a 28th defense into Top 5 deserves it. Shawn Marion also does considering they lost Tyson, started the season horrid on defense and Marion started guarding each team's best player and their defensive stats shot up.

The reason why the Magic are struggling defensively is because their bigs are Glen Davis and Daniel Orton.

5ass
04-24-2012, 08:30 PM
Sorry but a guy who takes a 28th defense into Top 5 deserves it. Shawn Marion also does considering they lost Tyson, started the season horrid on defense and Marion started guarding each team's best player and their defensive stats shot up.

The reason why the Magic are struggling defensively is because their bigs are Glen Davis and Daniel Orton.

The knicks improvement on D has A LOT to do with Amare being injured, adding better defenders to the team, Woodson, and just the whole team putting in more effort. Lets not act like tyson took them from 28th to top 5 alone. If tyson was such a phenomenal defender his impact wouldnt be easily replaced (see Mavs and how little they've regressed defensively without him with Haywood and vet min players at C).
I realize how good of a defender Tyson is. In fact last season when the Mavs picked him up i said they would end up making the finals, thats how highly i think of him. That being said, he is no Dwight howard on defense.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-24-2012, 08:40 PM
messed up their chemistry? True professionals shut up and play, dwight did that. Dwight was injured and still gave more effort than any other player on the magic.

Ha! Going public with things isn't the only way to ruin chemistry. It can be done all within closed doors as well.

5ass
04-24-2012, 08:42 PM
Ha! Going public with things isn't the only way to ruin chemistry. It can be done all within closed doors as well.

Not giving enough effort ruins chemistry.

ysizz
04-24-2012, 09:09 PM
Sorry but a guy who takes a 28th defense into Top 5 deserves it. Shawn Marion also does considering they lost Tyson, started the season horrid on defense and Marion started guarding each team's best player and their defensive stats shot up.

The reason why the Magic are struggling defensively is because their bigs are Glen Davis and Daniel Orton.

he didn't do it by himself tho, he at least 2 or 3 guys the puts in work on defense

5ass
04-24-2012, 09:16 PM
i thought this thread would get more feedback, but this forum has been filled with dwight haters lately. Ofcourse they will choose to comment in useless threads about some ******** reporter trying to make a quick buck and quickly believe him, but when i come here and post stats suggesting how great Dwight is they turn a blind eye. Appreciate his play, the guy is one of the best defenders this league has ever seen. Turn down the hate and put things into prespective as to this whole situation. Dont be quick to believe and judge when you dont know half the story. Im really starting to question whether the average age of PSD users is more than 15...

Raph12
04-25-2012, 12:52 AM
I think he's the best defensive player also, but these stats are kinda skewed. The games without him weren't just "games without Dwight". They've had a lot of other distractions (dwight wanting trade, dwight signing on for another year, dwight wanting stan out, other players sticking with the coach, Dwight opting for surgery instead of coming back...seemingly purposefully). All of these things, I feel, greatly contributed to how bad they're playing.

A lot of it is Dwight not being there, but a lot of it is all the other distractions caused by dwight.


EDIT:

Ah, I see kbpau brought up my point. This isn't just a team missing their defensive big man, its a team that's missing their defensive big man amid reports that he decided not to play the rest of the year for Stan, so he opted for surgery. Reports. Also, that he'll request his trade demand again. That's just a bad way to leave the team.

The trade and opt-in phase was over before he went down, as for the awkwardness of Dwight wanting Stan fired, if Dwight isn't with the team, why would they be distracted?... That's a bs excuses that little kids use when they don't do their homework, in this case, they can't do that homework (play defense).

smood999
04-25-2012, 01:25 AM
The knicks improvement on D has A LOT to do with Amare being injured, adding better defenders to the team, Woodson, and just the whole team putting in more effort. Lets not act like tyson took them from 28th to top 5 alone. If tyson was such a phenomenal defender his impact wouldnt be easily replaced (see Mavs and how little they've regressed defensively without him with Haywood and vet min players at C).
I realize how good of a defender Tyson is. In fact last season when the Mavs picked him up i said they would end up making the finals, thats how highly i think of him. That being said, he is no Dwight howard on defense.

thats the misconception..that it was woodson taking over and amare being out...amare was out the last few weeks but the knicks were consistently in the top ten the entire season even as high as 6 or 7 under dantoni, ppl seem to ignore it and i dont get y but the knicks d has been good the entire season..

....other than tyson the only good individual defender the knicks have is shumpert (as far as new additions go)...jeffries was always there...tyson changed the culture the same way garnett did in boston...allen and pierce were never good defenders...just like melo now...but now thats all changed with those players buying in...chandler had the same effect on the mavs last yr and its the same thing now...

5ass
04-25-2012, 02:09 AM
thats the misconception..that it was woodson taking over and amare being out...amare was out the last few weeks but the knicks were consistently in the top ten the entire season even as high as 6 or 7 under dantoni, ppl seem to ignore it and i dont get y but the knicks d has been good the entire season..

....other than tyson the only good individual defender the knicks have is shumpert (as far as new additions go)...jeffries was always there...tyson changed the culture the same way garnett did in boston...allen and pierce were never good defenders...just like melo now...but now thats all changed with those players buying in...chandler had the same effect on the mavs last yr and its the same thing now...

mike woodson was still their defensive coach, but yes ofcourse he changed the culture because he has players who want to win. He leads foremost by example. They see him play hard on D and it motivates them. Whereas Dwight's teammates watch Dwight do everything on defense. As for Boston Ray Allen and Paul Pierce came out and said they were going to put more effort and focus on defense. You dont have any one in Orl that is willing to step up.


"I don't know what the answer is," coach Stan Van Gundy said after the Magic lost to the Denver Nuggets 101-74 Sunday night. "But we simply can't guard anyone."

SVG has repeatedly said we lack perimeter defenders. He knows what he has to deal with, but its also very much his job to motivate his players (by benching or cutting their minutes if he has to) into putting more effort and focus on D.

5ass
04-25-2012, 03:19 PM
So it seems from the few articles ive read that chandler is going to win the award, even though they acknowledged that dwight is the better defender.

5ass
04-25-2012, 03:24 PM
Honestly league awards have become a joke anyway. They'll give it to tyson this year and next season after the dwight drama hopefully dies down they'll realize that dwight shouldve gotten it. Much like the mvp award last season going to rose instead of the clear MVP in lebron, people will go back and question their decision.

NYK4L
04-25-2012, 03:54 PM
Who cares about dpoy!? Give it to Howard. He's still gonna take that defensive efficiency elsewhere..hopefully the West.