PDA

View Full Version : International Free Agent Thread



Krylian
04-23-2012, 04:19 PM
There was a bit of talk regarding who the big IFA's are for this July 2nd signing period.

MLB.com just came out with their Top 20 list along with scouting reports for each one.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=int

BlueJayz
04-23-2012, 05:12 PM
There was a bit of talk regarding who the big IFA's are for this July 2nd signing period.

MLB.com just came out with their Top 20 list along with scouting reports for each one.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=int

Awesome. Thanks for posting. AA is going to be looking at the top pitchers again I'm sure.

(EDIT) Check that, the pitching crop looks to be lean this year. But the shortstop crop on the other hand looks mighty good.


BTW~This is SwaggerBallz_T.O, I was banned for some inexplicable reason. lol

town123
04-23-2012, 05:51 PM
There was a bit of talk regarding who the big IFA's are for this July 2nd signing period.

MLB.com just came out with their Top 20 list along with scouting reports for each one.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=int

Love it... thx

Johann
04-23-2012, 05:57 PM
lol @BlueJayz

Edit: I hope AA goes after some of these IFAs

BlueJayz
04-23-2012, 06:09 PM
lol @BlueJayz

Wow, you took the time to post in a thread (in no way reffering to the topic of the thread), just to say that.

It took like 1 minute to make a new account. lol

Schadenfreude much. :rolleyes:

Toxeryll
04-23-2012, 07:15 PM
Wow, you took the time to post in a thread (in no way reffering to the topic of the thread), just to say that.

It took like 1 minute to make a new account. lol

Schadenfreude much. :rolleyes:

lol ull get banned again

Nick O
04-23-2012, 07:24 PM
these kids are like 15..... i dont much care when they are that age.. it doesnt mean too much

BlueJayz
04-23-2012, 07:27 PM
lol ull get banned again

I doubt it, I'm barely on this board. Unlike Mr. 2000+ posts (i.e You). You must have a lot going on in your life to average almost 500 posts a year. lol

jaysforever
04-23-2012, 09:01 PM
We may not get a chance to sign Beras afterall. Says Texas has signed him for $4.5mm saying he is 17, though he was submitted as 16. Something going on here. Figures Texas would be in the middle of this! I really liked the sound of this kid. Hopefully they can prove he is 16, then if Texas still goes after him it MAY take them out of the Carbrera sweepstake.

Anyone else getting the feeling some clubs are going to blow the $2.9 limit out of the water!

Krylian
04-23-2012, 09:49 PM
We may not get a chance to sign Beras afterall. Says Texas has signed him for $4.5mm saying he is 17, though he was submitted as 16. Something going on here. Figures Texas would be in the middle of this! I really liked the sound of this kid. Hopefully they can prove he is 16, then if Texas still goes after him it MAY take them out of the Carbrera sweepstake.

Anyone else getting the feeling some clubs are going to blow the $2.9 limit out of the water!

The Beras signing is being investigated by MLB. Most seem to think that the deal will be rejected and Beras will face some sort of disciplinary action with the conflicting age situation.

Krylian
04-23-2012, 09:54 PM
these kids are like 15..... i dont much care when they are that age.. it doesnt mean too much

Thank you for your contribution. Some of us enjoy following the International Free Agent market.

AK-50
04-24-2012, 12:45 AM
it trips me out how young these kids are and in a few years your gonna see kids from 2000

ILDD
04-24-2012, 07:35 AM
it trips me out how young these kids are and in a few years your gonna see kids from 2000

Yup, horrible feeling. The new server at my local bar is 21 - she was born in 1990 :(

How does the new cba impact us for this IFA class? I believe that there is a very strict cap that means no one team can sign loads of IFA's but I'm not sure.

jaysforever
04-24-2012, 08:44 AM
The Beras signing is being investigated by MLB. Most seem to think that the deal will be rejected and Beras will face some sort of disciplinary action with the conflicting age situation.

I've often wondered if these kids are all 16. Usually each year there are a few that look older. I think this kid and his agent got blindsided by the new CBA and the $2.9 limit per team, thinking now that he is worth much more than that. So they let it out that he is really 17 and creates a bit of a bidding war as the new CBA does not take effect until July 1st. Just my thoughts, but i agree there has to be some kind of disciplinary action on this.

Krylian
04-24-2012, 09:41 AM
I've often wondered if these kids are all 16. Usually each year there are a few that look older. I think this kid and his agent got blindsided by the new CBA and the $2.9 limit per team, thinking now that he is worth much more than that. So they let it out that he is really 17 and creates a bit of a bidding war as the new CBA does not take effect until July 1st. Just my thoughts, but i agree there has to be some kind of disciplinary action on this.

I think the age thing was a lot worse in the past. Over the past couple of years MLB has been a lot more diligent with regards to doing indepth background checks...and with the new rules about every player needing to be registered with MLB before they can be signed, it will be even harder to fake an age and identity. Plus, it seems like a Worldwide draft is inevitable...I'm sure there will be even more rules and restrictions.

Bottom line, it seems to be getting harder and harder for players and their handlers to be shifty when it comes to this sort of thing.

Krylian
04-24-2012, 11:22 AM
Another name to keep in mind is Yancarlos Baez.

Here are a couple of blurbs I've read on him...


Baez is the most projectable of the Dominican infielders and has a higher ceiling defensively than any of them. He’s long and rangy at 6-foot-2, 165-pounds and one almost fears that he’ll grow too tall. Baez runs a 6.7 60 that could get faster as he gains some body strength and you can really see his speed and athletic ability on defense. He has an exceptional ability to accelerate through balls hit in front of him to cut off bad hops and shorten the distance on his throws. He is sometimes too quick on his release and can look a bit frantic at times, but when he stays back and shows his arm strength it shows plus potential with a present 87 mph gun reading.


Baez is a switch-hitter who has similar swing mechanics and bat speed from both sides, with a bit of an edge on the right side at present. He currently lacks the upper body strength to drive the ball consistently but should continue to improve as he gets stronger. Runs a 6.72/60 yd.


Two infield defenders stand out with SS Richard Urena and Yancarlos Baez showing lots of athleticism and top of the line tools on defense. Baez is what you would envision a 16 year old Dominican SS to be: long, lean, loose, very projectable and smooth. Baez isn’t there yet but with additional foot quickness and arm strength has the tools.

AK-50
04-24-2012, 12:38 PM
switch hitters are always great weapons just gotta see if Baez gets strong enough like they say

jaysforever
04-24-2012, 01:18 PM
I think the age thing was a lot worse in the past. Over the past couple of years MLB has been a lot more diligent with regards to doing indepth background checks...and with the new rules about every player needing to be registered with MLB before they can be signed, it will be even harder to fake an age and identity. Plus, it seems like a Worldwide draft is inevitable...I'm sure there will be even more rules and restrictions.

Bottom line, it seems to be getting harder and harder for players and their handlers to be shifty when it comes to this sort of thing.

This is true and i know they are doing everything they can, yet a situation like this shows how hard this is to control. There were some issues last year as well with some of these kids i recall. Some guys not only change their age, but they have been changing their name as well! It just gets so bizarre sometime.

And i'm sure not every guy gets caught either. What's with Texas getting involved with this anyways? They spent $8.5mm on 2 guys last year, not to mention $110mm on Darvish....like geez, can't they back off a bit, especially in an unethical situation like this. Doesn't make them look good IMO.

Krylian
04-24-2012, 03:01 PM
The Jays have been aggressive and I wish they were as aggressive as Texas. I have no issue with they're doing. If a super talented kid says he's 17 and has some paperwork to back it up I'd sign him too and hope it went through. Texas knows MLB does investigations on all signings. There's nothing wrong with trying and hoping they're able to pull a fast one. You have to be craft and creative. It's dog eat dog out there.

jaysforever
04-24-2012, 06:32 PM
If a super talented kid says he's 17 and has some paperwork to back it up I'd sign him too and hope it went through..

I think your being too lenient. He presumably had paperwork to back up that he was 16. I'd be shocked if they let this go thru. No idea though what the penalty here would be.

edit: how do you get into prospects 11 thru 20 on that link. I can only see 1-10.

Krylian
04-24-2012, 08:06 PM
I think your being too lenient. He presumably had paperwork to back up that he was 16. I'd be shocked if they let this go thru. No idea though what the penalty here would be.

edit: how do you get into prospects 11 thru 20 on that link. I can only see 1-10.

There should be an arrow on the right side. Click on it to display 11-20.

I have no doubt there will overturn it. I'm just saying that you need to take every advantage of every loophole you can before it gets closed up (like AA and getting all the comp picks for relievers and such). If Beras actually produces a birth certificate that shows he's 17, I have no problem with the Rangers jumping all over that. I wish the Jays would've. I don't think any team is upset with the Rangers...they're upset with the process and the Beras camp.

Don't hate da playa...hate da game!

Krylian
04-25-2012, 09:32 AM
Yoel Gonzalez: Catcher: 6'1" 175 (DR): 01-Aug-96


Gonzalez is very young physically and is one of the youngest players in the DPL group by date of birth as well. However, he is a very mature receiver who sits calmly and comfortably behind the plate and receives the ball cleanly and blocks with good fundamentals and quickness. His arm is loose and clean and he’ll pop his throws consistently in the 1.9 to 2.0 range, which is pretty impressive for a 15-year old. He handled the 96-98 mph fastballs from one Boston Red Sox pitcher without much problem, although it was obvious he hadn’t seen too many 90 mph hard sinkers in the Dominican when another pitcher was on the hill.


He doesn’t have the strength to create real bat speed at present but his swing is loose and extended and he does a good job finding the barrel in games. There’s plenty of projection here and the more you watch Gonzalez play in games, the more you feel he’s going to be a pretty good player in a couple of years and well worth an investment by a Major League club.

jaysforever
04-28-2012, 09:08 AM
BA has come out with an article on the Beras signing. Apparently MLB has come to a decision on this and should be announced soon. Some of the highlights as follows:

The signing generated an outcry across the industry that the Rangers and Beras were attempting to circumvent the new rules, which essentially restrict teams to spending around $2.9 million on international amateur players each year. By getting the deal done in Feburary, Beras lands a bigger bonus and the Rangers save money against their 2012-13 bonus pool.

What Major League Baseball is no doubt wrestling with is that at some point, Beras presented false information to both MLB and its clubs. The question now is what to do about it.

"The last thing you want to do is get MLB against you," one international scouting director said. "Texas should have gone to MLB and said, 'We have this situation, what do you suggest?' Had they done that, they would've been a lot better off. I wouldn't be surprised if they penalized Texas."

full link: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613315.html

Halladay
04-28-2012, 09:11 AM
I wonder if teams will start giving a wink wink type of offer to IFA's. Tell them hey, sign this cheap deal now and we'll give you X amount later on. Seems like one way to avoid the rules.

Krylian
04-28-2012, 01:31 PM
I wonder if teams will start giving a wink wink type of offer to IFA's. Tell them hey, sign this cheap deal now and we'll give you X amount later on. Seems like one way to avoid the rules.

Then you get into federal issues like how is that money going to be taxed if there's no paper trail. If you're found out, and the IRS comes after you, you're in a heap of trouble.

masTOR_shake1
04-28-2012, 02:32 PM
these kids are like 15..... i dont much care when they are that age.. it doesnt mean too much

I feel ya, it's kind of absurd. If 21-25 year olds like alverez and drebek and lawrie are considered kids, these guys are sperms.

Nick O
04-28-2012, 03:11 PM
Thank you for your contribution. Some of us enjoy following the International Free Agent market.

how are the free agents? .. these kids should be playing video games and focusing on school... not have their baseball skills analyzed by thousands of people.. when your 15 it doesnt mean much... how can anyone possibly begin to tell how good a 15 year old can be?

Krylian
04-28-2012, 04:33 PM
how are the free agents? .. these kids should be playing video games and focusing on school... not have their baseball skills analyzed by thousands of people.. when your 15 it doesnt mean much... how can anyone possibly begin to tell how good a 15 year old can be?

That's what scouts are paid to do. Compare the skills of 15 year olds to other 15 year olds and project how they develop. Many scouts have been doing this for decades. It's fun to hear about these kids that have all this raw ability and think about how good they may turn out to be.

If that doesn't interest you, that's cool. But some of us are interested. I'm quite certain that there are things you care for that many others don't.

Krylian
04-28-2012, 04:38 PM
...and on that note, here's another profile...

Lugo Octavis: DR, 6'1" 170 / SS / 19-Nov-95


Octavis’s physical tools match up well defensively with other DPL middle infielders such as Richard Urena and Yancarlos Baez. He’s a 6.78 runner with a quick first step, an exceptionally quick release at times and plenty of arm strength to stay at shortstop. However, Octavis doesn’t have the same level of skills and fundamentals yet, especially when it comes to his footwork, and is often caught between steps or off balance on plays.


Offensively, Octavis does a very good job of keeping his hands above the ball in his swing and staying away from the common Dominican hand hitch to start his swing. He does have a deep handset and a long stride to the ball, which creates some length that he doesn’t have the strength to compensate for yet. All the tools are there for Octavis to become a solid professional player, it just might take a bit longer than his DPL middle infield peers.

jaysforever
04-30-2012, 06:57 PM
International amateurs who want to sign on July 2 have to be registered tomorrow:


The registration system is mandatory for players from every country in the world that isn't subject to the draft (the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico), not just the Dominican Republic and Venezuela as some teams had initially expected. If a player is not registered by tomorrow, he has to wait until July 2, 2013, to sign. Players who are already eligible to sign—mostly players 17 or older—do not have to register.

So teams are already thinking about how to apply gamesmanship in the registration process. Want to make sure nobody knows who you want to sign? Register as many players as you can, regardless of how good they are. So MLB could see a last-minute flood of registrations, as teams wait until the deadline to avoid giving away any information.

Now if a team finds a diamond in the rough who isn't registered, it has to wait until the following July 2 to get a deal done. While MLB wants to suppress signing bonuses, some fear the registration rules may have the unintended consequence of driving up prices because it will push those players toward a more hectic and expensive July 2 market.


Full Article:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613333.html

es0terik
05-02-2012, 02:05 PM
Awesome. Thanks for posting. AA is going to be looking at the top pitchers again I'm sure.

(EDIT) Check that, the pitching crop looks to be lean this year. But the shortstop crop on the other hand looks mighty good.


BTW~This is SwaggerBallz_T.O, I was banned for some inexplicable reason. lol

Ever since AA has stepped in as GM, while he's focused on arms in the draft, he's done the exact opposite in the IFA market. He's targeted mostly position players.

Krylian
05-02-2012, 02:54 PM
Ever since AA has stepped in as GM, while he's focused on arms in the draft, he's done the exact opposite in the IFA market. He's targeted mostly position players.

Not sure I agree with that...I think the split it 50/50

Here's a list of pitchers that AA has signed in the IFA market since 2010...that I can think of....

Adonys Cardona
Miguel Castro
Greylor Conde
Manuel Cordova
Yeyfry Del Rosario
Osman Gutierrez
Jairo Labourt
Kendry Melo
Roberto Osuna
Jesus Tinoco
Alberto Tirado
Gilberto Vielma

And there are probably a few more...

es0terik
05-02-2012, 04:11 PM
I'm talking about in terms of the very top guys he signs. Of course it evens out near the bottom of the pool but last year all of is initial/top signings were position players: Jesus Gonzalez, Dawel Lugo and Wilmer Becerra. He didn't end up with Osuna till later in the year. Just like in the draft, he starts at the top with pitchers and then gets more hitters later on.

nithanyo
05-02-2012, 04:18 PM
Im still depressed we missed out on Chapman and Darvish and went with Hechavaria

Krylian
05-02-2012, 04:27 PM
I'm talking about in terms of the very top guys he signs. Of course it evens out near the bottom of the pool but last year all of is initial/top signings were position players: Jesus Gonzalez, Dawel Lugo and Wilmer Becerra. He didn't end up with Osuna till later in the year. Just like in the draft, he starts at the top with pitchers and then gets more hitters later on.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that there just really aren't that many top end arms in the IFA market. It's a buttload of shortstops and outfielders. That being said, AA got one of the top arms in each of the 2010 (Cardona) and 2011 (Osuna) signing periods.

es0terik
05-02-2012, 04:44 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that there just really aren't that many top end arms in the IFA market. It's a buttload of shortstops and outfielders. That being said, AA got one of the top arms in each of the 2010 (Cardona) and 2011 (Osuna) signing periods.

Agreed with this whole post. The same can be said of the draft though. There just weren't/aren't as many top end bats as there were arms the past few years.

jaysforever
05-21-2012, 02:39 PM
Rangers, Beras still awaiting decision:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613432.html


Another issue to keep an eye on is that Cuban Jorge Soler has not yet been eligible to sign. Should this not be resolved before July 2, he will be subject to the new rules as well, which would add another 5 tool talent into the pool along with Beras and Cabrera.

bomber0104
05-21-2012, 03:05 PM
Rangers, Beras still awaiting decision:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613432.html


Another issue to keep an eye on is that Cuban Jorge Soler has not yet been eligible to sign. Should this not be resolved before July 2, he will be subject to the new rules as well, which would add another 5 tool talent into the pool along with Beras and Cabrera.

can't see MLB baseball letting the Rangers sign him

its unfair to other teams.. the same thing happened with the O's and a korean pitcher and MLB stopped it

Krylian
05-21-2012, 04:28 PM
@ISmokeDope2 Any rumours regarding who the Blue Jays are looking at from the international side?

Badler: You'll want to read BA tomorrow

wings
05-22-2012, 11:46 AM
@ISmokeDope2 Any rumours regarding who the Blue Jays are looking at from the international side?

Badler: You'll want to read BA tomorrow


Badler's article links the Jays as favourites for Franklin Barreto, SS/CF, Venezuela & Jose Mujica, RHP, Venezuela (who are 2 & 8 on the MLB top 20 posted earlier). Seems to think the 2 will cost about 2.6 combined; which of course would be almost all of our 2.9 limit.

It is a pay article, so no point linking it.

Krylian
05-22-2012, 11:52 AM
KC is rumoured to be the front runner for Gustavo Cabrera.

North Yorker
05-22-2012, 12:26 PM
Badler's article links the Jays as favourites for Franklin Barreto, SS/CF, Venezuela & Jose Mujica, RHP, Venezuela (who are 2 & 8 on the MLB top 20 posted earlier). Seems to think the 2 will cost about 2.6 combined; which of course would be almost all of our 2.9 limit.

It is a pay article, so no point linking it.

Nice! Barreto rated the 2nd best position player as you said, and Mujica rated the #1 SP.

If posters are looking for the list it's in the OP.

jaysforever
05-22-2012, 03:18 PM
Here's a few of the key pieces from the BA article:

Franklin Barreto, SS/CF, Venezuela

Scouts love history on a player, and nobody has a better or longer track record than Barreto, who has been a standout player in international tournaments since he was 10. In 2006, Barreto helped lead a Venezuelan team to a 10-and-under Criollitos de America championship over Cuba.

In September 2008 at the COPABE Pan American 12-and-under tournament, Barreto led Venezuela to a championship while winning MVP honors and leading the tournament in home runs. Later that month he led an undefeated Venezuelan team to a Criollitos de America title and was named the 2008 athlete of the year by the Corporación Criollitos of Venezuela.

Barreto added another tournament MVP trophy to his collection in July 2010 at the 14-and-under Pan American championship before exploding for the Venezuelan team in Mexico last August at the 16-and-under World Championship. Barreto was Venezuela's best hitter and batted .515/.568/.978 (17-for-33), tied for the tournament lead with three home runs (including two against Team USA) and led the tournament with eight stolen bases in eight attempts. Barreto also played briefly in the Venezuelan Parallel League this winter, going 5-for-11 (.455) with four stolen bases in four tries.

Barreto, a 16-year-old from Miranda, now trains with Ciro Barrios and has continued to draw attention for his righthanded bat. His stature (5-foot-9, 175 pounds) and lack of physical projection are concerns, but his bat makes him one of the top prospects in this year's class. He recognizes pitches well, has great hand speed, has a short path to the ball and uses the whole field. He's small but strong, hitting hard line drives and showing surprising power in game situations, with the potential for 15-20 home runs a season.

With plus-plus speed, where Barreto ends up defensively is still up in the air. He's played both shortstop and center field and has worked out for teams at both spots. While he has spent considerable time at shortstop, his footwork and actions there aren't great, so many scouts believe he'll end up moving to either center field or second base. The most optimistic comparisons range from Rafael Furcal with less defense to Shane Victorino.

Barreto is expected to command one of the biggest bonuses in Latin America this year, possibly in the neighborhood of $1.5 million. The Blue Jays have signed several of Barrios' most expensive players in recent years, and they were believed to be the frontrunner to sign Barreto.

Gustavo Cabrera, OF, Dominican Republic

In August 2010, first baseman Ronald Guzman and outfielder Nomar Mazara led the Dominican Republic to a junior division RBI (Reviving Baseball in Inner Cities) World Series title in Jupiter, Fla. The following July 2, the Rangers signed Guzman for $3.45 million and Mazara for $4.95 million, the two highest international amateur bonuses of all time. Cabrera also played in the RBI World Series last summer, leading his Dominican team to the 2011 championship at Target Field in Minnesota. Cabrera earned MVP honors, going 2-for-3 with a walk and a stolen base in the championship game.

In terms of raw tools, there may not be a player this year who can match Cabrera. A 16-year-old from La Romana, Cabrera plays in the Dominican Prospect League and works out in Santo Domingo with Cristian Batista, who is known as "Niche" in the Dominican Republic. At 6 feet, 190 pounds, Cabrera has a thick build but is one of the better athletes and fastest runners in Latin America. He has plus-plus speed, which gives him good range in center field, and a strong arm. His body type has scouts questioning how much of his speed he'll retain as he gets older. At the plate, Cabrera also has above-average raw power, making him an intriguing player with power and speed.

For all of his tools, Cabrera still leaves scouts wanting to see more from him at the plate in games. There's some length to the swing and his hitting mechanics will need to be ironed out to help him get better balance. Cabrera does a lot of things that grade out well on the 20-80 scale, but he will need to show scouts that his tools will translate. Some teams think the Royals may make a play for Cabrera.

Jose Mujica, RHP, Venezuela

Former big league shortstop Carlos Guillen established a Venezuelan academy in 2010, and he had enough money to build one of the best facilities and attract the best players in the country. His first gem is Mujica, whom many scouts consider the best pitcher in Latin America this year.

Mujica, who turns 16 on June 29, was one of the top performers at the MLB showcase in February in the Dominican Republic, where he threw two scoreless innings with no hits, one walk and a strikeout. His raw stuff isn't quite as powerful as that of Victor Sanchez, the Venezuelan righthander who signed with the Mariners last year for $2.5 million, but Mujica combines quality stuff with clean arm action and loose, fluid mechanics, though he can get a bit upright in his delivery. He's a strike-thrower who has touched 93 mph with heavy action, and he should eventually sit with a plus fastball. He's a bit stiff-wristed and his breaking ball gets slurvy, but he already flashes a good changeup with sink that some scouts think could be a plus-plus pitch in the future.

Mujica should be able to command a bonus just north of $1 million, with the Blue Jays the team most frequently linked to him.

Krylian
05-22-2012, 03:28 PM
I'd love the Jays to be in on Cabrera, but Badler is really pretty bang on when he mentioned which teams are in the lead. I remember last year he mentioned Lugo, Becerra, and Cordova all with the Jays and lo and behold, all 3 were signed. Also, he had Cardona linked to the Jays and that got done too. So, my gut tells me the Royals are legitimately the front runners for Cabrera.

This said, I think Barreto and Mujica would be real nice gets.

jaysforever
05-22-2012, 06:10 PM
Yes, he has been bang on. I believe he had us on Osuna as well.

The problem with Cabrera is he could use up most of the $2.9. I think the jays are better off maintaining the relationship with Cito Barrios and grabbing his best player. If we ran out of money someone else will swoop in there and pay Barrios and this could be problematic going forward. The relationship has served us well in the past and will payoff in the future as well.

And if they can get in with Guillen now even better!

jaysforever
06-02-2012, 01:24 PM
Solar finally declared a free agent:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/06/mlb-declares-jorge-soler-a-free-agent/

jaysforever
06-13-2012, 11:07 PM
What an absolute F#!!* mess this age thing is in the DR:


http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/international-affairs/2012/2613554.html

Krylian
06-14-2012, 08:50 AM
What an absolute F#!!* mess this age thing is in the DR:


http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/international-affairs/2012/2613554.html

It really shouldn't be news to anyone.

Put yourself in their shoes...my family is poor as ****...I'm 18 and good at baseball, but maybe not quite good enough for an 18 year old...but as a 16 year old I'm really good. Do I have my trainer fake a few things for me so I can get a contract, help my family out, and then work my *** of to become the player they think they signed.

A lot of these kids and their families are in rough shape. Desperate times...

Eagles4Lyfe
06-14-2012, 01:25 PM
Agreed, just like Leo Nunez and Mike Stanton did. They got caught now have to identify their real name and stuff..

es0terik
06-14-2012, 01:28 PM
Exactly. At the end of the day baseball is a sport. Your family and livelihood is much more important. If they get caught then they get caught but I dont think they are pathetic for doing it. I think people who use steroids and other ways to cheat are pathetic but if someone's lying about their age I could give a **** more. They still have to play for the team and earn their money with a legit performance. If 10 years down the road a team overpays for them and realizes they are paying the player past his prime, that's the team's fault. They shouldn't be giving out such long and ludicrous contracts anyways. Dominican players don't have the luxuries that American players have and so it could be argued that American players have an advantage in terms of being able to be developed earlier and more safely. So if a 20 year old Dominican is often on par with an 18 year old American in terms of skillset and development, then I don't care if they're both drafted as 18 year olds.

es0terik
06-14-2012, 01:30 PM
Agreed, just like Leo Nunez and Mike Stanton did. They got caught now have to identify their real name and stuff..

Leo Nunez and Fausto Carmona lol.

Mike Stanton didn't lie about his identity :eyebrow: He just changed his name to Giancarlo Stanton because that is his real first name and he prefers going by it. It would be like if Coco Crisp decided tomorrow that he would rather go by Covelli Crisp.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-14-2012, 01:54 PM
Oh I stand corrected then lol

Billyen
06-14-2012, 08:31 PM
Exactly. At the end of the day baseball is a sport. Your family and livelihood is much more important. If they get caught then they get caught but I dont think they are pathetic for doing it. I think people who use steroids and other ways to cheat are pathetic but if someone's lying about their age I could give a **** more. They still have to play for the team and earn their money with a legit performance. If 10 years down the road a team overpays for them and realizes they are paying the player past his prime, that's the team's fault. They shouldn't be giving out such long and ludicrous contracts anyways. Dominican players don't have the luxuries that American players have and so it could be argued that American players have an advantage in terms of being able to be developed earlier and more safely. So if a 20 year old Dominican is often on par with an 18 year old American in terms of skillset and development, then I don't care if they're both drafted as 18 year olds.

Well said...btw...Albert Pujols is actually 45.

Krylian
06-14-2012, 09:48 PM
Well said...btw...Albert Pujols is actually 45.

And was still one of the best players in baseball for close to 10 years.

Stupid Angels. Hahaha!!!

wagnall
06-14-2012, 09:51 PM
It is just a sport and to most its there way of getting them and thier families out of conditions that most of us would find absolutely intolerable because they have been given a gift of being a good ball player. But even with that I think that misrepresenting yourself could land you back from which you came. If you have the talent nobody will care. They care if you are good enough to take on, develop and 1 day play in the show, whether you come as an 18 or 21 year old. JMHO

Krylian
06-19-2012, 01:50 PM
Yasel Puig Targeting Free Agency
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [June 19 at 10:03am CST]

Cuban outfielder Yasel Puig aims to become a free agent soon so that he can sign with an MLB team by July 2, when the spending restrictions in baseball’s new collective bargaining agreement take effect, MLB.com’s Jesse Sanchez reports. Puig has defected from Cuba and is in the process of establishing permanent residency in Mexico. Agent Jaime Torres says he hopes MLB will declare the 21-year-old a free agent once his residency has been established.

"We should all be on the same page by July 2nd in order to have the clubs evaluate him and sign a contract before the new rule kicks in," Torres told Sanchez.

Torres has tentatively scheduled a showcase for scouts in Mexico City later this week. Puig, a 6'3" 210 pound outfielder, has two seasons of experience in Cuba’s Serie Nacional. He’s more polished than Jorge Soler but less seasoned than Yoenis Cespedes, according to Sanchez. If MLB declares Puig a free agent in the coming days, he’ll be able to sign before July 2 and maximize his earnings.

jbkbluejayfan
06-21-2012, 09:48 AM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613346.html

PeterH
06-21-2012, 02:38 PM
"The Blue Jays had seemed to be in the lead for Venezuelan right-hander Jose Mujica, but may not be as closely linked to him as expected, Badler writes. The Red Sox and Diamondbacks have also been linked to the 15-year-old Mujica, who's considered by many scouts to be the top pitching prospect available in Latin America.
The Blue Jays are still favored to sign 16-year-old Venezuelan Franklin Barreto, according to Badler. Some teams consider Barreto the top available prospect, but he will likely move from shortstop to another position."

Lookin not too shabby

jaysforever
06-21-2012, 03:40 PM
Here's the full article. BA are such a bunch of dickheads sometimes. Last month is was ALERT ALERT, MUJICA TOPS, BLUE JAYS, ALERT, BLUE JAYS, MUJICA BEST STUFF, ALERT, ALERT, BLUE JAYS BLUE JAYS. And now they come out with this idiotic 'Surprise in Venezuela'


July 2 Notebook: Surprise In Venezuela

By Ben Badler
June 21, 2012

Follow me on Twitter
E-mail Print

Every year there are surprises in the international market. With all the new rules and restrictions about to begin on July 2, this year has an even more unusual feel, as teams are paying bonuses to currently eligible players beyond their true value, for various reasons, and trying to squeeze as much as they can out of the new $2.9 million limits for the upcoming July 2 class.

One of the biggest recent surprises among international scouts is that the Blue Jays may not be as closely linked to Venezuelan righthander Jose Mujica (profiled here) as previously thought. The Blue Jays had been seen as the heavy frontrunner for Mujica, who turns 16 on June 29 and is considered by many scouts to be the top pitching prospect in Latin America in this year's July 2 class.

Now, for whatever reason, the picture for Mujica is more muddled, and there are some who believe Toronto may end up going in a different direction. The Red Sox and Diamondbacks had previously been linked to Mujica, who trains at Carlos Guillen's academy.

"Mujica has pitchability, he's loose and projectable," said one international scouting director. "He's got a good delivery, good arm action and a good fastball . . . He to me is the cream of the crop in pitching. Whoever signs him, I understand why."

The Blue Jays are still considered the favorite to land 16-year-old Venezuelan Franklin Barreto, the player some teams believe is the top prospect available for July 2. There aren't many teams that think Barreto will stay at shortstop, but he's worked out in center field and his 70 speed would be a good fit there, though second base might also be an option. His small, compact stature (5-foot-9, 175 pounds) isn't ideal, but his bat is his calling card and his track record of hitting is unparalleled in this year's class.

"Breaking down the tools, it'd be Barreto No. 1," said another international scouting director. "I think you probably get a lot of different opinions about what position people see him at long term, but just in terms of the speed and the bat, he's certainly the top guy. He can hit for a high average, 15 to 20 home runs and he's got bat speed. The fact that he can run, that's going to add to the average as well. For me, the bat speed gives him a chance to hit and he's got pretty good hand-eye coordination."

• Ronald Medrano is a 6-foot, 170-pound righthander who trains at an academy run by Gary Wendt and former major league righthander Dennis Martinez. Medrano's size doesn't give him a ton of projection, but he's a strike-thrower with good pitchability for a 16-year-old. He throws in the high-80s with good life and pitches well to both sides of the plate. He shows a good curveball and his feel for a changeup is also beyond most kids his age.

• Dominican shortstop Wendell Rijo is still working way to get back on the field after suffering a knee injury during the Dominican Prospect League's spring training tour in the United States in March. Rijo, 16, has been a standout as one of the best hitters in the country prior to his injury.

• Venezuelan lefthander Jose Castillo has seen his stock rise as his fastball went from the mid-80s over the winter to touching the low 90s last month. More recently, Castillo has sat consistently in the low 90s at tryouts. The Red Sox and Padres have been mentioned as possible teams of interest on Castillo, as have the Royals. Some think the Dodgers and Orioles could also be sleepers here, although Castillo's expected bonus is beyond their typical price range.

• International sources say the Twins are showing heavy interest in Amaurys Minier (profiled here), a 16-year-old switch-hitter from the Dominican Republic. Minier plays shortstop now but any team in on him is buying him for his bat—particularly from the left side—since he's probably going to have to move to third base quickly and may end up at either first base or a corner outfield spot. The expectation in Dominican circles is that he will be one of the highest-paid players on the island.

• Dominican third baseman Nataneal Javier won MVP honors at the DPL's recent all-tournament game at the Perfect Game International Series at the Yankees' Dominican academy. Scouts had said that Javier, a 16-year-old righthanded hitter who trains with Basilio Vizcaino (known as Cachaza), had been inconsistent with his hitting previously, but he went 3-for-3 with a double during the game. Vizcaino had another third baseman last year, Miguel Andujar, who signed with the Yankees for $750,000 and is off to a good start in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League. Javier is bigger and more physical (6-foot-3, 200 pounds) than Anudjar and may have more raw power, though his hitting and approach aren't as advanced as Andujar. His older brother Sony Javier spent three years with the Blue Jays in their DSL program before the organization released him this year.

• The third basemen drawing the most interest in the Dominican Republic are Julio de la Cruz and Carlos Belen (both profiled here). De la Cruz trains with former big league outfielder Luis Polonia, whose 19-year-old son Rodney Polonia is in his second year with the Pirates in their Dominican Summer League program. Some sources believe the Pirates are one of the teams in on de la Cruz.

• Alfredo Arias of the Arias and Goodman academy has two third basemen, Juan Carlos Arias and Miguel Mercedes. Arias, 16, has an extra-large frame (6-foot-3, 220 pounds) and good power from the right side. Arias is strong, rotational and puts on a good show in batting practice, though some scouts have questions about his game hitting. Mercedes, 16, is another big third baseman (6-foot-4, 210 pounds) with a similar profile, with good raw power (though maybe a tick less than Arias) but also question marks on the bat and the defense.

Krylian
06-21-2012, 04:06 PM
BA is usually very accurate when it comes to predicting who's in on who.

Dont' be angry just cause one of the higher rated guys isn't on the Jays radar anymore.

jaysforever
06-28-2012, 06:19 PM
Today, per BA:

After Barreto, Venezuela has a group of polished hitters in catcher Luis Torrens, outfielder Alexander Palma and shortstop Luis Castro. Few think the Yankees will be outbid for Torrens or Palma, but the market for Castro has grown more muddled recently.

There was talk earlier that the Rockies were the leaders to sign Castro, a 16-year-old righthanded hitter who trains with Jose Aguiar. Now word is that the Blue Jays may have passed the Rockies after several sources believe that Toronto has backed off its pursuit of Mujica.

"The guy I think is going to be the biggest impact with the bat is Luis Castro," said one Latin American director. "He has bat speed, he's a physical guy and he's going to have power. He has a good arm and he doesn't run well, so he could play third base. He could even catch. The bat has some bat speed, which in this game you've got to have. I think he's going to hit."

Added another Latin American director: "I liked Castro a lot. I saw him early (in a workout), and when I saw him early, I didn't really like him, but that's why workouts suck. In games, he's strong. He can't run a lick, but he might stay at shortstop. He might be one of the better signs. I like the fact he can pick it and throw it. He's never going to have outstanding range and he's probably a third baseman, but I really like the way he hits. I think he has a chance to hit and hit for power. He's strong for a 16-year-old kid with really strong hitting ability. He was one of my favorite guys I liked."

North Yorker
06-29-2012, 03:23 PM
Franklin Berreto ss/cf, Venezuela
Ranking #1 BA and #2 MLB


Amed Rosario ss, Dominican Republic
#11 BA
Rosario, 16, was one of the top performers at the MLB showcase in February in the Dominican Republic, where he went 4-for-7 with a double and a walk. He has grown in recent months and is now around 6-foot-3, 170 pounds with long limbs and a lanky build. Rosario is an average runner and some scouts think he may end up at third base, but right now scouts have said he shows terrific instincts at shortstop, with good hands, a strong arm and the ability to make the barehanded play.

Iggy
06-29-2012, 03:49 PM
Does anyone know the exact process for trading for international cap $ ?

Commencing July 1 all teams have $2.9M to spend ... could the Jays purchase another teams 2.9M allottment and then use the $5.8M on international free agents or must the Jays give up players in the trade. Is there a maximum amount that a team may trade ... the full 2.9M can not be traded?

town123
06-29-2012, 04:04 PM
^^ good question.

I want to know the rules before AA bends them over.....heh

Krylian
06-29-2012, 04:48 PM
Does anyone know the exact process for trading for international cap $ ?

Commencing July 1 all teams have $2.9M to spend ... could the Jays purchase another teams 2.9M allottment and then use the $5.8M on international free agents or must the Jays give up players in the trade. Is there a maximum amount that a team may trade ... the full 2.9M can not be traded?

The ability to buy cap space from another team starts next year. Asked Badler about it today.

town123
06-29-2012, 05:16 PM
The ability to buy cap space from another team starts next year. Asked Badler about it todfay.i

Any idea how that works? Ask Badler.....lol

Iggy
06-29-2012, 05:27 PM
I found a good article about the CBA which includes comments on the international free agent cap.

Starting in 2013 teams can trade up to 50% of their cap

http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/11/22/2579747/how-the-new-collective-bargaining-agreement-affects-the-white-sox-and

town123
06-29-2012, 05:39 PM
I found a good article about the CBA which includes comments on the international free agent cap.

Starting in 2013 teams can trade up to 50% of their cap

http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/11/22/2579747/how-the-new-collective-bargaining-agreement-affects-the-white-sox-and

Good read thanks. Love how most points are moot for the W-Sox because they don't have an AA at the helm.

jaysforever
06-29-2012, 06:06 PM
BA has ranked the top 20 Int'l Free agents. I'm getting really excited...hope some of the rumours are correct!



http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613623.html

jaysforever
06-29-2012, 06:11 PM
I hope these rumours are true:

1. Franklin Barreto, ss/cf, Venezuela
Ht: 5-9. Wt: 175. B-T: R-R.

There are few amateurs who have ever had Barreto's extensive track record of dominance representing Venezuela during international competitions. Barreto has played in international tournaments since he was 10 in 2006. He was the MVP at the Pan American 12-and-under tournament in September 2008, then later that month led Venezuela to another title by winning the Criollitos de America title en route to being named the 2008 athlete of the year by the Corporacion Criolltos of Venezuela. He won another MVP in July 2010 at the 14-and-under Pan American championship, then last August starred at the 16-and-under World Championship, where he he .515/.568/.978 in 33 at-bats, tied for the tournament lead with three homers (including two against Team USA) and led the tournament with eight steals in eight tries.

Several teams have Barreto as the top player on their boards. A 16-year-old from Miranda, Barreto has two standout tools in his hitting and his speed. Some scouts project Barreto as a future plus hitter. He has quick hands, a short swing, recognizes pitches well and hits the ball to all fields. With his hitting acumen and plus-plus speed, he could become a potential .300 hitter. Barreto is small and is already a strong, physically mature player, so there are questions about projection, but he hits hard line drives and has shown he can hit the ball out of the park in games, with 15-20 homer potential.

Most teams don't think Barreto can stick at shortstop. He has a solid arm for the position, but his footwork and actions aren't ideal for the infield. With his speed, some teams view him as a good fit in center field, while others project him as a second baseman. High-end projections range from Rafael Furcal with less defense to a Shane Victorino type in center field. Barreto trains with Ciro Barrios, whose program last year delivered outfielders Wuilmer Becerra and Jesus Gonzalez and righthander Jesus Tinoco to the Blue Jays. Most sources believe the Blue Jays will sign Barreto, who is expected to sign for close to $2 million.

9. Luis Castro, ss, Venezuela
Ht.: 6-1. Wt.: 190. B-T: R-R.

Castro is among a group of several polished Venezuelan hitters who have shown they can handle live pitching on the international circuit. A 16-year-old who trains with Jose Aguiar, he played in the Junior Caribbean Series in Barquisimeto in April 2011, then went to the 16-and-under World Championship in Mexico last August. Castro hit .583/.655/.750 in Mexico, going 14-for-24 with four doubles, four walks and two strikeouts. He tied for the tournament lead in OBP and doubles while tying for second in batting average. His performance included a 4-for-5 game with two walks and a pair of stolen bases against Team USA.

Castro doesn't have the loudest tools, but scouts like his ability to hit and his power potential. His hitting approach is sound, he has good bat speed with a short swing, and he squares up the ball easily. He hits to all fields and has a good idea of the strike zone. With his size, some scouts think he has the potential to hit for average and power, though others don't see quite that much offensive impact since his power now is more gap to gap.

Castro is an instinctive player, both in the batter's box and in the field. He's a fringy runner at best, so he doesn't have great range, and many teams think he projects as a third baseman, with second base or even catcher as a possibility. He's expected to sign as a shortstop, but he would fit well at third because he has clean hands and a solid arm. The Rockies once appeared to be the most likely destination for Castro, but if the Blue Jays have indeed backed off Mujica, they could land Castro, who should be able to get around $1 million.

Krylian
06-29-2012, 07:28 PM
Jays 'might' still be in on #3 Mujica-RHP also. Conflicting reports there.

North Yorker
06-29-2012, 07:36 PM
MOAR prospects!!!!

T.O. Fan
06-29-2012, 11:16 PM
They wouldn't be able to afford both Barreto and Mujica with the $2.9 mil cap, could they?

wamco
06-30-2012, 11:22 AM
Agreed, just like Leo Nunez and Mike Stanton did. They got caught now have to identify their real name and stuff..

what did mike stanton get caught for exactly? using his nickname rather than his given (pimp) name giancarlo?

Krylian
06-30-2012, 11:25 AM
They wouldn't be able to afford both Barreto and Mujica with the $2.9 mil cap, could they?

Anything is possible.

Barreto for $2M. Mujica for $900K? Or somewhere in that area.

Krylian
07-01-2012, 12:04 AM
Angelo Bastardo J.

@Wilnerness590 source here in Dominican republic say Jays will sign Franklin Barreto (rafael furcal) and Amed Rosario (5-tools SS) july 2

StealingSigns
07-01-2012, 02:26 AM
Obviously Barreto is a coup...

StealingSigns
07-01-2012, 02:27 AM
...but what of Mujica?

Krylian
07-01-2012, 07:46 AM
...but what of Mujica?

It's sounding like the Jays have backed off a bit on Mujica. I'm guessing it's because of the cap. If it wasn't for that I have no doubt we'd see them take a hearty run at a bunch of Top 20 ranked guys. Seems like it's a strong year for Venezuela and that's been the Jays bread and butter for a few years now.

jaysforever
07-01-2012, 09:15 AM
It's sounding like the Jays have backed off a bit on Mujica. I'm guessing it's because of the cap. If it wasn't for that I have no doubt we'd see them take a hearty run at a bunch of Top 20 ranked guys. Seems like it's a strong year for Venezuela and that's been the Jays bread and butter for a few years now.

Yeah, there's a story there somewhere. Maybe Mujica is felt to be older than he's saying, for example, or maybe the price got bid up by Baseball America with all their shameless promotion of the link between him and the Blue jays.

I am surprised they've gone to a Dominican though if these rumours are true. As well, rumours had the Mets on Rosario for $1.7mm, so this seems odd we got him:


11. Amed Rosario, ss, Dominican Republic
Ht.: 6-3. Wt.: 170. B-T: R-R.

Rangers outfielder Nomar Mazara set the international bonus record last year when he signed out of Ivan Noboa's program for $4.95 million. Growing up, Mazara played in La Javilla youth league in Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic. Rosario was one of his boyhood teammates, but because he was born six months after Mazara in November 1995, he is part of this year's July 2 class. Rosario trains with John Carmona, who is also the president of La Javilla. Ellis Pena, known as "Peñita", a former scout who was fired by the Pirates, is also one of Rosario's coaches.

Rosario might be the most divisive player in Latin America. He has a long, lanky build, good bat speed and raw power in batting practice along with average speed. Some scouts who like Rosario enough to have him ranked as the top prospect in the Dominican Republic, seeing him as a true shortstop who with power who can hit in games. He showed that at the MLB showcase in February in games against Venezuela, going 4-for-7 with a double, a walk and no strikeouts. Supporters like his fielding instincts, hands, arm strength and ability to make the barehanded play.

Other scouts see an upright hitter with a leg kick that gets him out on his front foot against offspeed stuff and leads to strikeouts with his uppercut stroke. His body has a lot of room to fill out, so he may end up at third base, but some scouts aren't sold on his infield actions and see him as a corner outfielder.

Scouts are united in their appreciation of Rosario's makeup. He is scheduled to graduate high school before July 2. His father is a lawyer who will be influential in the signing, and his mother has a cousin who is married to Brewers scout Rafael Espinal. If a team sees a true shortstop with an impact bat, Rosario could end up the highest-paid player in the Dominican Republic. Some sources think the Mets will be that team, though the Astros and White Sox have also been mentioned.

Spiderdan22
07-01-2012, 12:28 PM
Where would these two have been ranked if in this year's draft?

jaysforever
07-01-2012, 04:03 PM
Where would these two have been ranked if in this year's draft?

The way the draft has been going the last few years is that teams will start to move in on High upside, Higher risk HS kids in the supplemental first round, expecially the HS arms.

I think some of these top int'l kids would fit in here as well, and into the 2nd round as well. Possibly a really good 5 tool kid, or power arm may fit into the 1st round as well.

We did see Correa go first overall. Now, technically he's not an Int'l FA, but in some respects, being a Puerto Rican, he does have this same int'l flavour. Now he's a very special athlete, and he's 17 going on 18, so teams do get a bit more look at him vs. a 16 year old.

Some of the other top Puerto Rican kids have gone in the first, supp first and second rounds over the years.

Edit: I could see Baretto as a supp first round kid maybe, and Rosario as a 2nd/3rd rounder.

jaysforever
07-01-2012, 11:16 PM
BA's latest staying with Barreto and Castro:

1. FRANKLIN BARRETO, SS/CF, VENEZUELA: Alex Anthopolous has made the Blue Jays one of the most aggressive teams in both the draft and the international market since he became general manager. Barreto is the best player available for July 2, and the Blue Jays have long been viewed as the favorites to land him. Nothing here seems to have changed.
Projected Team: BLUE JAYS.

9. LUIS CASTRO, SS, VENEZUELA: Two teams have been linked as potential destinations for Castro, one of Latin America's more polished hitters. The Rockies seemed like favorites early on, but then sources said they believed the Blue Jays were in the lead after they backed off Mujica. Others think the Rockies may still be in the mix. The Blue Jays have also been strongly linked to Barreto and a prominent Dominican shortstop (see below), so they would certainly be pushing the limits of their $2.9 million bonus pool if they could get all three. Right now, most sources think Castro will end up with Barreto in Toronto.
Projected Team: BLUE JAYS.

13. RICHARD URENA, SS, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC: Urena has a good chance to stick at shortstop, and if he were a 60 or 70 runner instead of just average, he might have a chance to get more than $1 million. He's still drawn interest as one of the top shortstops in Latin America, perhaps the best among those who will stay at shortstop, depending on what teams think of Amed Rosario. The White Sox and Reds were linked to Urena at one point, but now it looks like Toronto is making an aggressive push.
Projected Team: BLUE JAYS.

Dol-Fan
07-02-2012, 12:14 AM
No longer favourites for Rosario?

I'm looking forward to tomorrow and the coming days...

metafour
07-02-2012, 02:11 AM
No longer favourites for Rosario?

The report that we were going to sign him was sketchy the entire time. About a day before that report came out, Enrique Rojas (ESPN) wrote that Rosario was going to sign with the Mets for ~$1.7 million. If he's getting that type of offer from the Mets then we clearly cant compete if we are also to sign Berreta.

jaysforever
07-02-2012, 08:43 AM
Jays sign Baretto:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/blue-jays-sign-no-1-international-prospect-franklin-barreto/

North Yorker
07-02-2012, 08:45 AM
Franklin Barreto, the top international prospect available for July 2, has signed with the Blue Jays. Here is Barreto’s full scouting report from the Top 20:

1. Franklin Barreto, ss/cf, Venezuela

Ht: 5-9. Wt: 175. B-T: R-R.

There are few amateurs who have ever had Barreto's extensive track record of dominance representing Venezuela during international competitions. Barreto has played in international tournaments since he was 10 in 2006. He was the MVP at the Pan American 12-and-under tournament in September 2008, then later that month led Venezuela to another title by winning the Criollitos de America title en route to being named the 2008 athlete of the year by the Corporacion Criolltos of Venezuela. He won another MVP in July 2010 at the 14-and-under Pan American championship, then last August starred at the 16-and-under World Championship, where he he .515/.568/.978 in 33 at-bats, tied for the tournament lead with three homers (including two against Team USA) and led the tournament with eight steals in eight tries.

Several teams have Barreto as the top player on their boards. A 16-year-old from Miranda, Barreto has two standout tools in his hitting and his speed. Some scouts project Barreto as a future plus hitter. He has quick hands, a short swing, recognizes pitches well and hits the ball to all fields. With his hitting acumen and plus-plus speed, he could become a potential .300 hitter. Barreto is small and is already a strong, physically mature player, so there are questions about projection, but he hits hard line drives and has shown he can hit the ball out of the park in games, with 15-20 homer potential.

Most teams don't think Barreto can stick at shortstop. He has a solid arm for the position, but his footwork and actions aren't ideal for the infield. With his speed, some teams view him as a good fit in center field, while others project him as a second baseman. High-end projections range from Rafael Furcal with less defense to a Shane Victorino type in center field. Barreto trains with Ciro Barrios, whose program last year delivered outfielders Wuilmer Becerra and Jesus Gonzalez and righthander Jesus Tinoco to the Blue Jays. Most sources believe the Blue Jays will sign Barreto, who is expected to sign for close to $2 million.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/blue-jays-sign-no-1-international-prospect-franklin-barreto/

:clap:

North Yorker
07-02-2012, 08:57 AM
Toronto has signed Venezuelan shortstop Luis Castro, the No. 9 international prospect for July 2.

Castro, a 16-year-old righthanded hitter, is an instinctive player who has hit well during international competition. He’s 6-foot-1, 190 pounds and trained with Jose Aguiar.

Baseball America subscribers can read Castro’s complete scouting report. The Blue Jays earlier today also signed Franklin Barreto, a Venezuelan shortstop/center fielder who ranks as the top international prospect available for July 2.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/blue-jays-sign-no-9-international-prospect-luis-castro/

Nice, anything more is gravy, considering we are probably pretty close to our $2.9M limit.

town123
07-02-2012, 09:47 AM
This Badler dude year after year seems to nail who is going where. Good on him.

Krylian
07-02-2012, 10:13 AM
I wonder how much left the Jays have of the $2.9M. Even another $300K could net a solid prospect. That, and I know each team can sign up to six player for $50K or less (each) and not have it count against the $2.9M.

Still eager to see what we can still do.

Krylian
07-02-2012, 10:15 AM
I wonder how much left the Jays have of the $2.9M. Even another $300K could net a solid prospect. That, and I know each team can sign up to six player for $50K or less (each) and not have it count against the $2.9M.

Still eager to see what we can still do.

town123
07-02-2012, 10:35 AM
#17 . Jose Alamonte signs with RedSox for $610

wings
07-02-2012, 01:35 PM
Sounds like we will be getting Urena as well.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120702&content_id=34319274&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb&tcid=tw_article_34319274


No idea how we were able to get all 3 under the 2.9 (plus 5% I assume), but our latin boys have had one heck of a day!!

Sanyo
07-02-2012, 01:37 PM
Arghh the Rays got Mujica .. as if they need anymore good pitchers on that team.

Krylian
07-02-2012, 01:58 PM
As per @MLBDraft, Jays sign #13 Richard Urena, SS (DR) for $750K.

Wow!!!

fatkev78
07-02-2012, 02:38 PM
That's #1, 9 & 13 according to BA.

No idea how they pulled that off (even with the overage), but I'm glad they did!

Dol-Fan
07-02-2012, 02:44 PM
Unreal! Love it!

es0terik
07-02-2012, 03:17 PM
Yankees got the Rank 2 and 4 prospects (Torres and Palma)

Dol-Fan
07-02-2012, 03:26 PM
Yankees got the Rank 2 and 4 prospects (Torres and Palma)

Funny how, even with the capped system, the teams that have exploited this system in the past are still doing so.

es0terik
07-02-2012, 03:32 PM
Mujica only cost the Rays 1M

Krylian
07-02-2012, 03:40 PM
So maybe Castro was quite a bit under $1M giving the Jays the room for both him and Urena rather than just Mujica.

1, 9, And 13 is awesome.

I'm big on best talent available....and if Mujica has a higher upside then it's unfortunate we couldn't get it to work, but I guess if there is a consolation it's that the organization has so many talented young arms, passing up on one to grab 2 high ceiling shortstops can be forgiven.

Sanyo
07-02-2012, 03:43 PM
Hate the new caps! I know it had to be done but if there wasn't one, Mujica could have been with the Jays.

es0terik
07-02-2012, 04:57 PM
So maybe Castro was quite a bit under $1M giving the Jays the room for both him and Urena rather than just Mujica.

1, 9, And 13 is awesome.

I'm big on best talent available....and if Mujica has a higher upside then it's unfortunate we couldn't get it to work, but I guess if there is a consolation it's that the organization has so many talented young arms, passing up on one to grab 2 high ceiling shortstops can be forgiven.

I don't know why but I feel like when the figures get released, we'll find that we still coulda got two of the three we signed and also gotten Mujica.

jaysforever
07-02-2012, 05:08 PM
I don't know why but I feel like when the figures get released, we'll find that we still coulda got two of the three we signed and also gotten Mujica.

Would have had to give up Baretto then. Mujica for Baretto.

I imagine it was something like:

Baretto 1.5mm - rumour was just under $2mm
Castro 750k
Urena 750k

Total $3mm

Give or take a bit. I guess when BA said jays moved in a different direction it was to ensure they got Castro and Urena instead of Mujica and whatever else they could get for $500k or so.

Edit: overall great job though. Very thrifty to get those 3 signed without significant penalty, assumed.

Krylian
07-02-2012, 05:31 PM
I don't know why but I feel like when the figures get released, we'll find that we still coulda got two of the three we signed and also gotten Mujica.

T's not always the money. Maybe the mujica camp wanted to go with the Rays.

In 2010 when the Jays signed Cardona for $2.8M, it was betwrrn them and the Pirates for Heredia as well. As we all know he ended up signing with the Pirates for $2.6M. However, what some might not know is that the Jays offered $2.8M (same amount as Cardona). However, the Pirates had, I don't know if it was a scout or the International Director himself, but there was a history with the Heredia camp so they took that route.

Personal relationships and politics play a big part and there's every chance that it was about more than just the money.

All this said, the Jays still made off like bandits if these 3 signings are accurate.

bomber0104
07-02-2012, 05:57 PM
T's not always the money. Maybe the mujica camp wanted to go with the Rays.

In 2010 when the Jays signed Cardona for $2.8M, it was betwrrn them and the Pirates for Heredia as well. As we all know he ended up signing with the Pirates for $2.6M. However, what some might not know is that the Jays offered $2.8M (same amount as Cardona). However, the Pirates had, I don't know if it was a scout or the International Director himself, but there was a history with the Heredia camp so they took that route.

Personal relationships and politics play a big part and there's every chance that it was about more than just the money.

All this said, the Jays still made off like bandits if these 3 signings are accurate.

yup a lot of it has to do with that... one of the articles that people posted earlier in the thread commented on how one of the players had gone to the same academy or had the same trainer of a couple of the Jays signees last year

es0terik
07-02-2012, 06:20 PM
T's not always the money. Maybe the mujica camp wanted to go with the Rays.

In 2010 when the Jays signed Cardona for $2.8M, it was betwrrn them and the Pirates for Heredia as well. As we all know he ended up signing with the Pirates for $2.6M. However, what some might not know is that the Jays offered $2.8M (same amount as Cardona). However, the Pirates had, I don't know if it was a scout or the International Director himself, but there was a history with the Heredia camp so they took that route.

Personal relationships and politics play a big part and there's every chance that it was about more than just the money.

All this said, the Jays still made off like bandits if these 3 signings are accurate.
I guess I should have kept this into account as I agree with all of it. I've always understood that specifically in the international market, relationships with the players go a long long way. And yeah, I think the only team that can compete with the Jays haul is the Yankees.

Sanyo
07-02-2012, 06:59 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if money is being paid under the table for some of these int'l guys. For the Jays a little harder since Rogers is the owner and has transparent books but then you have the owners of teams like the Yanks and Angels who have none and could go out and play these games.

Only time will tell..

wowzman
07-02-2012, 09:21 PM
Blue Jays time capsule for you

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/melissa_segura/07/02/jimy-kelly/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a1

fatkev78
07-02-2012, 09:31 PM
BenBadler
Impressive. Got the best player and another one of my favorite hitters. RT @chrisarcher13 thoughts on the jays haul of latin america
.

jaysforever
07-02-2012, 09:56 PM
Yeah, but what's odd is he hasn't confirmed, nor has BA the Urena signing. Odd, maybe will see it there tomorrow.

Krylian
07-03-2012, 07:31 AM
Everyone and their mother knew Osuna signed with the Jays last summer and BA waited a month and a half before announcing.

@mlbdraft is a pretty good source.

Krylian
07-03-2012, 07:39 AM
Dp

Iggy
07-03-2012, 10:30 PM
Looks like the Jays did sign Urena ...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/blue-jays-sign-no-13-international-prospect-richard-urena/

And as such they got Barreto + Castro + Urena

Krylian
07-03-2012, 10:48 PM
That's a *****in' haul!

Love it!

DeRozan10
07-03-2012, 10:53 PM
did we get the best haul of internation free agents this year??

Krylian
07-03-2012, 11:16 PM
did we get the best haul of internation free agents this year??

The Yanks signed the 2nd and 4th ranked guys so they did extremely well.

I believe the Rays might have also signed 2 of the Top 20 guys, but the Jays are the only team that I'm aware of that have signed 3 of the Top 20 (Top 13 actually).

Pretty damn impressive.

Jays and Houston probably had the 2 best drafts too.

The Jays have had a tremendous last month with respect to adding talent to the Farm.

wamco
07-04-2012, 08:42 AM
it has no relevance what the yankees did. You can't base your team's player development on ther teams dummy.

jaysforever
07-04-2012, 09:07 AM
The Yanks signed the 2nd and 4th ranked guys so they did extremely well.

.

And i believe they did it for $2.1mm so they've got about $900k+ so they could still do some damage or wait and sign guys later in the year that develop, much like the jays did last year with those 2pitchers last year who's names if forget.

Krylian
07-04-2012, 09:56 AM
it has no relevance what the yankees did. You can't base your team's player development on ther teams dummy.

Exactly, you idiot.

Now you're getting it, ***** for brains.

Way to go!!!

#wamcoisyanksobsessed

Dol-Fan
07-04-2012, 12:36 PM
Enrique Rojas/ESPN ‏@Enrique_Rojas1
July2 Venezuelan LH pitcher Jose Castillo sign with #Bluejays $800K

Dol-Fan
07-04-2012, 12:37 PM
6th on BA's top 20

how in the blue hell?

TO Rapz
07-04-2012, 12:41 PM
What the ****? He's that good? I thought this was just a Livan Hernandez esque signing.

DeRozan10
07-04-2012, 12:54 PM
**** the police

DeRozan10
07-04-2012, 12:55 PM
4 top 20 guys??

DeRozan10
07-04-2012, 12:56 PM
2nd best pitcher behind mujica?

Dol-Fan
07-04-2012, 12:56 PM
4 top 20 guys??

Let's go with 4 top 13 guys :)

DeRozan10
07-04-2012, 12:59 PM
1. Franklin Barreto, ss/cf, Venezuela
6. Jose Castillo, lhp, Venezuela
9. Luis Castro, ss, Venezuela
13. Richard Urena, ss, Dominican Republic

i dont know a damn thing about int free agents, but that seems like a decent haul

T.O. Fan
07-04-2012, 01:22 PM
Do we have a running total of the remaining cap space?

Toxeryll
07-04-2012, 02:11 PM
how the **** did we sign those four?

FlakeyFool
07-04-2012, 02:22 PM
We used money

PeterH
07-04-2012, 02:24 PM
The jays must have some absolutely smokin ladies on their negotiating team.

Krylian
07-04-2012, 02:29 PM
Do we have a running total of the remaining cap space?

There is no remaining cap space. just based on the numbers ii've read....

Barreto - $1.45M
Castro - Unknown
Urena - $750K
Castillo - $800K

They're already at $3M with $45K left if you assume they spend up to the 5% luxury tax overage....and that doesn't even take into account Castro's bonus which has to be in that $750K+ range.

My only guess is they're found a loophole, or decided thjat the prospects in 2012 are superior to 2013 and are putting all their eggs in this years basket.

Does anyone have a link to the IFA rules and penalties? I'm curious to go through them again and see if there's something in there.

Toxeryll
07-04-2012, 02:37 PM
FELIX OLIVO ‏@felixolivo12


@Enrique_Rojas1 como agente de Castillo le puedo asegurar dos cosas; 1 Jose Castillo, NO firmara con Jays. 2- Sera el bono mas alto de VZ!

Google translate

Castillo agent I can tell you two things: 1 Jose Castillo, DO NOT sign with Jays. 2 - It will be the highest bonus of VZ!

so maybe we didnt get castillo?

Krylian
07-04-2012, 02:59 PM
Makes sense if true. Also, disappointing if true.

Dol-Fan
07-04-2012, 03:26 PM
Hm. Well that's a kick in the pants. Still a great haul even if Castillo doesn't end up with the Jays.

wamco
07-04-2012, 03:53 PM
jays sign enrique rojas

Dol-Fan
07-04-2012, 04:41 PM
MLBTR now reporting the Castillo signing

phillipmike
07-04-2012, 04:41 PM
Hm. Well that's a kick in the pants. Still a great haul even if Castillo doesn't end up with the Jays.

Not sure what to believe but MLBTR is reporting that we did sign him.

fatkev78
07-04-2012, 04:56 PM
MLBTR is reporting it based off the earlier Rojas tweet....which he has since stated was wrong.

Dol-Fan
07-04-2012, 04:59 PM
MLBTR is reporting it based off the earlier Rojas tweet....which he has since stated was wrong.

You're right. I hadn't seen the tweet from Rojas himself, just from the agent or coach of Castillo. Here is the translation of Rojas' most recent tweet:

Coach Jose Castillo leaflet advises that his pupil did not sign with # Bluejays, as stated above.

Toxeryll
07-04-2012, 04:59 PM
Enrique Rojas/ESPN ‏@Enrique_Rojas1


Entrenador de prospecto venezolano José Castillo informa que su pupilo no ha firmado con #BlueJays, como se dijo anteriormente.

Translation


Coach of Venezuelan prospect José Castle reports that his pupil did not sign with Bluejays, as he was told previously.

fatkev78
07-04-2012, 05:02 PM
@BenBadler
I'm told they have not signed him. RT @JohnPolsinelli Did Blue Jays sign Ifa LHP Jose Castillo?.

DeRozan10
07-04-2012, 05:26 PM
can someone tell me the penalties of going over

Toxeryll
07-04-2012, 05:39 PM
can someone tell me the penalties of going over

0-5% in excess- we pay tax
5-10% in excess - we pay tax and i think we cant sign anyone over $500K next year or we'll lose a pick if theres an international draft next year
10-20% over - similar to the one above but harsher: we pay bigger tax and lose multiple picks i believe

Krylian
07-04-2012, 05:58 PM
I don't think I've seen them mention anything about losing picks before.

I can't remember the exact details but it had everything to do with luxury tax and being restricted to not being able to sign players over a specific amount...$500K for going 5-10% over and something like $250K for 10% and over.

Toxeryll
07-04-2012, 06:10 PM
I don't think I've seen them mention anything about losing picks before.

I can't remember the exact details but it had everything to do with luxury tax and being restricted to not being able to sign players over a specific amount...$500K for going 5-10% over and something like $250K for 10% and over.


Penalties in Signing Periods Preceding a Draft Year.

In any signing period commencing in the year prior to a year in which there will be an international draft, a Club that exceeds its Signing Bonus Pool will be subject to the penalties listed below. By way of example, if there will be a draft in 2013, a Club that exceeds its Signing Bonus Pool in the 2012-2013 signing period will be subject to these penalties. Similarly, if there will be a draft in 2014, a Club that exceeds its Signing Bonus Pool in 2013-2014 will be subject to the penalties.

a. 0-5% in excess of Pool—75% tax on all of the Pool overage.
b. 5-10% in excess of Pool—75% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of 1st round pick in the next succeeding international draft.
c. 10-15% in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of 1st round pick and 2nd round pick in next succeeding international draft.
d. 15% or greater in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of loss of 1st round picks in next two succeeding international drafts.

Appendix 46 of the new CBA (http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf)

Toxeryll
07-04-2012, 06:17 PM
if theres no international draft next year, the penalties are:


a. 0-5% in excess of Pool—75% tax on all of the Pool overage.
b. 5-10% in excess of Pool—75% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of right to provide more than one player in the next succeeding signing period with a bonus in excess of $500,000.
c. 10-15% in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of right to provide any player in the next succeeding signing period with a bonus in excess of $500,000.
d. 15% or greater in excess of Pool—100% tax on all of the Pool overage and loss of right to provide any player in the next succeeding signing period with a bonus in excess of $250,000.

Krylian
07-04-2012, 06:32 PM
The non-draft version is the only one I've seen.

Thanks for the additional info.

jaysforever
07-04-2012, 06:47 PM
I've often thought that if the jays think the Int'l draft will be in 2013 for example, they may as well 'go for it' and sign as many top players as they can, or do it next year if they think the Int'l draft will be in 2014.

The reason is, assuming Jays finish at .500 for the year they will have around the 16th pick in the Int'l draft. Lol....what is that going to get you?

We just signed 3 of the top 10 guys or so! So what is the 16th pick really worth? So when i heard they signed Castillo, i thought maybe the Jays think the Int'l draft will be coming in next year. This may still be possible and maybe they will be signing Castillo, and this is why they would do it. Plus whatever other top talent they can sign.

So we'll see how this develops. May have been a false alarm on Castillo this year, but will be something to keep in mind for next year.

DeRozan10
07-04-2012, 07:06 PM
of ba's top 20 ... does anyone know how many of them have signed??

Iggy
07-04-2012, 07:09 PM
of ba's top 20 ... does anyone know how many of them have signed??

Still a few left to sign ...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/top-20-international-prospects-tracker/

Krylian
07-04-2012, 07:10 PM
16 are confirmed signed as per BA.

jaysforever
07-04-2012, 07:10 PM
Gohara is a power arm as well. Let's hope we grab both Castillo and Gohara and go from there!

DeRozan10
07-04-2012, 07:19 PM
Gohara is a power arm as well. Let's hope we grab both Castillo and Gohara and go from there!

word!

DeRozan10
07-04-2012, 07:19 PM
Still a few left to sign ...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/top-20-international-prospects-tracker/

thx homie!

Spiderdan22
07-05-2012, 12:02 AM
I've often thought that if the jays think the Int'l draft will be in 2013 for example, they may as well 'go for it' and sign as many top players as they can, or do it next year if they think the Int'l draft will be in 2014.

The reason is, assuming Jays finish at .500 for the year they will have around the 16th pick in the Int'l draft. Lol....what is that going to get you?

We just signed 3 of the top 10 guys or so! So what is the 16th pick really worth? So when i heard they signed Castillo, i thought maybe the Jays think the Int'l draft will be coming in next year. This may still be possible and maybe they will be signing Castillo, and this is why they would do it. Plus whatever other top talent they can sign.

So we'll see how this develops. May have been a false alarm on Castillo this year, but will be something to keep in mind for next year.

Great point

T.O. Fan
07-06-2012, 07:46 AM
Keith Law Twitter:


Toronto's bonus to Franklin Barreto was $1.45 million, and they gave Luis Castillo $800k.

Krylian
07-06-2012, 08:43 AM
Keith Law Twitter:

Luis Castillo? Who's that?

Luis Castro is the guy the Jays have confirmed signed...

Jose Castillo is the guy that was reported signed and then re-buffed.

I assumed he's talking Castro??

T.O. Fan
07-06-2012, 10:22 AM
I assume he meant Castro. Just tweeted him to confirm so hopefully he answers.

T.O. Fan
07-06-2012, 01:08 PM
Keith Law Twitter

Re Toronto - Luis Castro. RT @I0170: @keithlaw do you mean jose castillo or luis castro?

jaysforever
07-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Per BA:

Rays Sign No. 6 International Prospect Jose Castillo
Red Sox Sign No. 10 International Prospect Wendell Rijo


This is good news. I'm taking this to mean the IFA draft won't be in next year...which is good for us!

fatkev78
07-10-2012, 05:07 PM
The Blue Jays were among the most aggressive teams when the international signing period opened on July 2, signing three of the top 20 international prospects to put them slightly over their $2.9 million international bonus pool.

Toronto signed Venezuelan shortstop Franklin Barreto ($1.45 million), Venezuelan shortstop Luis Castro ($800,000) and Dominican shortstop Richard Urena ($725,000), putting their international amateur spending for the 2012-13 signing period at $2,975,000. That means the Blue Jays are 2.6 percent over their international bonus pool, so for their $75,000 overage they will have to pay a 75 percent tax, which comes to $56,250.

The Blue Jays won't face any penalties beyond the tax unless they choose to spend more than five percent above the $2.9 million pool ($3,045,000), after which they would have to pay a 100 percent tax on the overage and would be prohibited from signing any player for a bonus greater than $500,000 during the 2013-14 international signing period that begins next year on July 2.


During the 2011 calendar year, the Blue Jays ranked second in international amateur spending with estimated bonus expenditures of $7.57 million.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/blue-jays-exceed-2-9-million-international-bonus-pool/

jaysforever
07-12-2012, 09:07 PM
Mlb approves Beras deal. Shocking to me. Just another dominican that was lying about his age to look younger, got caught offside with the new CBA, and scrambled back to claim he was actually older so he could sign for more before the new agreement took effect. Now you know how pathetic the commissioner really is and why FA's are signing 10 year $200mm+ deals.

Just wow.


http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613722.html

Krylian
07-12-2012, 09:16 PM
********.

Not surprised though.

I hope he blows out his knee.

Toxeryll
07-12-2012, 09:18 PM
Mlb approves Beras deal. Shocking to me. Just another dominican that was lying about his age to look younger, got caught offside with the new CBA, and scrambled back to claim he was actually older so he could sign for more before the new agreement took effect. Now you know how pathetic the commissioner really is and why FA's are signing 10 year $200mm+ deals.

Just wow.


http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613722.html

that sucks man. why would they approve this? im not that familiar with the situation but shouldnt the rangers be penalized for this since Beras would have been one of the players on the july 2 international prospects and paid him way over the $2.9 M bonus pool?

i really hope hes a bust. cant stand these liars

Krylian
07-12-2012, 09:32 PM
that sucks man. why would they approve this? im not that familiar with the situation but shouldnt the rangers be penalized for this since Beras would have been one of the players on the july 2 international prospects and paid him way over the $2.9 M bonus pool?

i really hope hes a bust. cant stand these liars

I don't blame the Rangers. They found out the kid was 17 so they signed him. I'd hope that AA would do the same if he came into that sort of info.

I would've hoped that MLB would've squashed the lying Beras and his reps hard though.

Oh well. Beras sounds like Mazara...tools, and huge BP power, but hasn't shown it in games.

bomber0104
07-12-2012, 10:27 PM
I don't blame the Rangers. They found out the kid was 17 so they signed him. I'd hope that AA would do the same if he came into that sort of info.

I would've hoped that MLB would've squashed the lying Beras and his reps hard though.

Oh well. Beras sounds like Mazara...tools, and huge BP power, but hasn't shown it in games.

he should have gotten 2.9 max.. that is the right way to penalize him.. not suspending him for a year which is practically nothing when he is that young

es0terik
07-15-2012, 01:46 PM
They WERE penalized, for something that they weren't even at fault for. They lose the prospect for a year and were unable and un-allowed to get a single other prospect at the July 2 deadline this year. They basically get only one IFA in 2012.

Toxeryll
07-15-2012, 05:47 PM
They WERE penalized, for something that they weren't even at fault for. They lose the prospect for a year and were unable and un-allowed to get a single other prospect at the July 2 deadline this year. They basically get only one IFA in 2012.

meh, thats nothing. IIRC, beras would have been the best international prospect at the july 2 signing if he had not signed earlier. and suspending a guy for a year doesnt really do much because hes still young and can still work out with the team. and they can still sign other prospects since beras deal didnt count against their bonus pool

Krylian
07-16-2012, 12:15 AM
meh, thats nothing. IIRC, beras would have been the best international prospect at the july 2 signing if he had not signed earlier. and suspending a guy for a year doesnt really do much because hes still young and can still work out with the team. and they can still sign other prospects since beras deal didnt count against their bonus pool

Beras was not the consensus #1 at all. He was in the Top 5 discussion, no doubt, but he wasn't any sort of runaway prospects like, say, Sano was a few years back.

He would've signed with Texas regardless of what the amount was.

es0terik
07-16-2012, 03:03 AM
meh, thats nothing. IIRC, beras would have been the best international prospect at the july 2 signing if he had not signed earlier. and suspending a guy for a year doesnt really do much because hes still young and can still work out with the team. and they can still sign other prospects since beras deal didnt count against their bonus pool

As far as I know, the whole reason why the Rangers weren't in on any of the other July 2 prospects was BECAUSE of the fact that they had to wait on Beras. I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to sign anymore IFA's till July 2013 now. I'm not 100% on that, but I'm pretty sure.

Toxeryll
07-16-2012, 03:11 AM
Beras was not the consensus #1 at all. He was in the Top 5 discussion, no doubt, but he wasn't any sort of runaway prospects like, say, Sano was a few years back.

He would've signed with Texas regardless of what the amount was.

my bad, i read an article that he was likely to be #1 so i assumed that he's a consensus #1. ya, i figured he wouldve still signed with texas but i think mlb shouldve handed out harsher penalties.


As far as I know, the whole reason why the Rangers weren't in on any of the other July 2 prospects was BECAUSE of the fact that they had to wait on Beras. I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to sign anymore IFA's till July 2013 now. I'm not 100% on that, but I'm pretty sure.

if im not mistaken they waited until mlb resolve the beras' deal because they werent sure if its going to count against their cap or not. i dont think mlb restricted them from signing anyone on july 2 signing period. and yes, theyre still allowed to sign IFA til July 2013


Beras' $4.5 million bonus doesn't count against the new cap, which covers a yearlong period through next July 1.

link (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rangers-deal-teen-approved-suspension-194841286--mlb.html)

metafour
07-16-2012, 10:17 PM
They lose the prospect for a year

This means next to nothing. He can still train at the organization's DR facility. He cant play in any games; but I dont think any of these kids end up playing right away anyway so it means literally nothing. His suspension ends right around when rookie-level leagues start next year; so he'll literally miss no games.


and were unable and un-allowed to get a single other prospect at the July 2 deadline this year. They basically get only one IFA in 2012.

This isn't true. They were allowed to sign other July 2nd prospects; but obviously they chose not to just in case the MLB decided to rule that his "16 year old" DOB was legit (because then they'd be way over-budget).

Your last point is also way off. They still have $2.9 million to spend, and guess what? They'll end up spending all of that. They missed out on the majority of the "top" July 2nd kids, but in this market you have kids pop up late all the time (top prospect Oscar Tevaras signed months after July 2nd a few years ago and for only ~$150k because he was a late pop-up kid). If 3 months from now a kid all of a sudden shows up displaying top tools, guess what? The Rangers still have their full $2.9 million to spend. Whereas we and most other teams are completely dried out (or close to it) and can only sign kids for $50K, they can pretty much out-bid everyone and they'll have very little competition.

fatkev78
08-01-2012, 04:38 PM
Ugh:


Blue Jays Void Contract Of Venezuelan Shortstop Luis Castro Over Physical

Posted Aug. 1, 2012 4:27 pm by Ben Badler
Filed under: International, News
The Blue Jays have voided the contract of Luis Castro after the Venezuelan shortstop did not pass his physical, according to a source familiar with the contract.

Castro, 16, had agreed to terms with the Blue Jays for $800,000 when the international signing period opened July 2 and had ranked as the No. 9 international prospect. Since the contract was never finalized, Castro will not receive his bonus and will become a free agent.

Castro, who trains with Jose Aguiar, is 6-foot-1, 190 pounds and impressed scouts with his righthanded bat, including his performances at international competitions. Several teams expected he would end up at another position, likely either third base or second.

While the Blue Jays had exceeded their $2.9 million international bonus pool for the 2012-13 signing period, that's now no longer the case. The Blue Jays also signed Venezuelan shortstop Franklin Barreto, the top international prospect, for $1.45 million, as well as Dominican shortstop Richard Urena, the No. 13 international prospect, for $725,000.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/08/blue-jays-void-contract-of-venezuelan-shortstop-luis-castro-over-physical/

MikeSirotka
08-01-2012, 04:42 PM
Terrible.

Krylian
08-01-2012, 05:25 PM
Terrible.

Doom and gloom?

What if they work out another deal with Castro for less $$?

Maybe they'll go after Gohara?

Who knows...but I'm confident they'll spend every bit of that money.

metafour
08-01-2012, 07:54 PM
Not a giant deal because that money will still get used, and knowing the international market it will let us track some late-risers who pop up well after July 2nd. It would have been much more devastating if it was Barreto who failed his physical because he's the real jewel of our class. I'd even argue that Urena is a "higher value" player, given his status as a pure-shortstop.

Korac
08-01-2012, 10:00 PM
Sure beats spending that kind of dough on damaged goods...

fatkev78
08-02-2012, 08:06 AM
I love people trying to put a positive spin on this, but there is only 1 top 20 IFA left and he's not signing for the $800,000 the Jays have left.
It sucks he's hurt.

Krylian
08-02-2012, 09:24 AM
I love people trying to put a positive spin on this, but there is only 1 top 20 IFA left and he's not signing for the $800,000 the Jays have left.
It sucks he's hurt.

It's unfortunate.....but let's not get carried away. There is other talent still out there.

fatkev78
08-02-2012, 09:51 AM
No one's getting carried away....just realistic.

Krylian
08-02-2012, 10:06 AM
No one's getting carried away....just realistic.

Then why the commentary about a positive twist? No one said this was a positive situation...just that it's not a completely hopeless situation.

PeterH
08-02-2012, 10:59 AM
Cant believe Castro couldnt pass a physical, that was a huge shock

fatkev78
08-02-2012, 11:01 AM
^^ I was being sincere about the positive twist as this site is riddled with doom and gloom. However, it's necessary to be realistic here and realize that Gohara will not sign with the Jays as you suggested as they don't have enough money left, nor is there any top 20 IFA's left (as I said before).

Krylian
08-02-2012, 11:24 AM
^^ I was being sincere about the positive twist as this site is riddled with doom and gloom. However, it's necessary to be realistic here and realize that Gohara will not sign with the Jays as you suggested as they don't have enough money left, nor is there any top 20 IFA's left (as I said before).

It's a subjective ranking. Maybe they can get #21 and #22 for that money. Point is, the Jays have been doing a real good job the past 2-3 year in the IFA market, so I have faith that they'll find some good talent to re-allocate that money to.

And you never know, Castro still might re-sign here for a discounted rate...we've seen it happen before with other teams. Who knows what the issue is...maybe it's a bad knee, shoulder, or something like that that requires some surgery and rehab, and he'll end up being fine afterwards.

Let's just wait and see what happens.

metafour
08-02-2012, 02:46 PM
but there is only 1 top 20 IFA left

This means absolutely nothing. Remember that the IFA period is a year-long venture; the top 20 going into July 2nd will likely look drastically different a full year from now, especially when you are talking about 16 year olds (in Latin America nonetheless). I can almost guarantee that there will be kids that pop-up a few months from now and start looking much better than they did on July 2nd. It happens every year. A few years ago the Cardinals signed Oscar Taveras in November (months after July) and for only $150,000; did anyone have him in the initial "July 2nd Top 20?" We signed Carlos Perez as a 17 year old.

Sanyo
08-02-2012, 02:56 PM
Im gonna say this seriously.

The Jays need to start scouting in Kenya -- those guys run like no tomorrow! You can teach them to hit but man oh man. My friend was out there not too long ago and he saw a bunch of kids playing cricket and soccer, he couldnt believe the speed on those kids, they were zipping quick!

Its globalization, doesnt hurt to send someone out there and give it a shot. You could find a few kids out there who could surprise!

fatkev78
08-02-2012, 03:03 PM
This means absolutely nothing. Remember that the IFA period is a year-long venture; the top 20 going into July 2nd will likely look drastically different a full year from now, especially when you are talking about 16 year olds (in Latin America nonetheless). I can almost guarantee that there will be kids that pop-up a few months from now and start looking much better than they did on July 2nd. It happens every year. A few years ago the Cardinals signed Oscar Taveras in November (months after July) and for only $150,000; did anyone have him in the initial "July 2nd Top 20?" We signed Carlos Perez as a 17 year old.

It means "absolutely nothing" that the top 20 are gone...what? Of course you're going to have the odd player develop later, like in any draft, but you take the top ranked guys every time.
I'm not even going to get into the ramifications of the new cap.

metafour
08-02-2012, 03:39 PM
It means "absolutely nothing" that the top 20 are gone...what?

Bro in this market a "ranking" is so volatile that it really does mean very little that almost "all the top 20 are signed" when there are literally 10 more months for players to emerge before next years class. Ben Badler told a story about how every International Director in the league will tell you about how they felt some kid they signed for $50k in a given year was as good as the kid they signed for 15 times that amount. Literally. People talk about the draft being a "crap shoot"...the 16 year old IFA market makes the draft look like a precise science.

No one is celebrating that Castro's contract was voided. I'm just pointing out that your entire "oh no there's no one left to sign" theory is blatantly inaccurate. Its not like Castro was an unmistakeable elite talent either; it is completely plausible that there are kids left unsigned that will prove to be as good or better than he is by the time July 2013 hits. Its really not that big a deal if we continue to do our homework.

Korac
08-02-2012, 04:03 PM
I love people trying to put a positive spin on this, but there is only 1 top 20 IFA left and he's not signing for the $800,000 the Jays have left.
It sucks he's hurt.

Well of course it sucks. Know what would have sucked more? Paying almost a million dollars for a player that is hurt and never is able to come near his potential. It's why they have the players do physicals after all.

That's not a positive spin, that's just reality.

fatkev78
08-02-2012, 04:16 PM
Bro in this market a "ranking" is so volatile that it really does mean very little that almost "all the top 20 are signed" when there are literally 10 more months for players to emerge before next years class. Ben Badler told a story about how every International Director in the league will tell you about how they felt some kid they signed for $50k in a given year was as good as the kid they signed for 15 times that amount. Literally. People talk about the draft being a "crap shoot"...the 16 year old IFA market makes the draft look like a precise science.

Bro, obviously that happens from time to time, but the odds are clearly the higher ranked guys are going to pan out more often than the lower/non ranked guys.


No one is celebrating that Castro's contract was voided. I'm just pointing out that your entire "oh no there's no one left to sign" theory is blatantly inaccurate. Its not like Castro was an unmistakeable elite talent either; it is completely plausible that there are kids left unsigned that will prove to be as good or better than he is by the time July 2013 hits. Its really not that big a deal if we continue to do our homework.

Please point out to me where I say that. I simply said that losing out on top 10 ten talent really sucks...it's actually quite simple.


Well of course it sucks. Know what would have sucked more? Paying almost a million dollars for a player that is hurt and never is able to come near his potential. It's why they have the players do physicals after all.

That's not a positive spin, that's just reality.

lol...I'm not disappointed they didn't sign an injured player, I'm disappointed the player is injured. Of course I wouldn't want him signed for $800,000 now. Wow! Your poorly placed sarcasm was well noted though.

Korac
08-02-2012, 04:20 PM
lol...I'm not disappointed they didn't sign an injured player, I'm disappointed the player is injured. Of course I wouldn't want him signed for $800,000 now. Wow! Your poorly placed sarcasm was well noted though.

I wasn't being sarcastic, but if you want to have paper thin skin you go right on ahead.

fatkev78
08-02-2012, 04:27 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic, but if you want to have paper thin skin you go right on ahead.

No offence, but if it wasn't sarcasm it was stupidity to think that someone would want an injured 16 year old IFA signed to a $800,000 contract.

Korac
08-02-2012, 04:32 PM
No offence, but if it wasn't sarcasm it was stupidity to think that someone would want an injured 16 year old IFA signed to a $800,000 contract.

I think you misunderstood my point, but I think it's best to drop it at this point as this is a silly thing to have an e-peen pissing contest over. :D

How bout those Blue Jays!...err, wait.

fatkev78
08-02-2012, 04:35 PM
Agreed, but I'm at work and this is really killing my shift, so please keep it up - jerk (joking).

Korac
08-02-2012, 04:38 PM
Agreed, but I'm at work and this is really killing my shift, so please keep it up - jerk (joking).

Lol! :clap:

Iggy
08-02-2012, 05:38 PM
I am disappointed in the Blue Jays for taking a month to find out Castro was injured ... now there may not be a lot of good options to spend the $800,000 which he was signed for

Does anyone know the rules when a team does not spend their team allottment on internationnal free agents? Hopefully, the shortfall that the Jays did not spend their $2.9M carries over to next year

Krylian
08-02-2012, 05:42 PM
I am disappointed in the Blue Jays for taking a month to find out Castro was injured ... now there may not be a lot of good options to spend the $800,000 which he was signed for

Does anyone know the rules when a team does not spend their team allottment on internationnal free agents? Hopefully, the shortfall that the Jays did not spend their $2.9M carries over to next year

There is no carry-over.

The money will be spent. There are plenty of talented players available...as well as others that are sleepers right now but will start getting noticed as the year goes on.

heusy_79
08-14-2012, 12:43 AM
Castro signed with the Rockies for 50K, quite the far cry from the 800K he agreed to with Toronto. Leads me to believe the injury concern that popped up in his physical must have been quite significant.

Krylian
08-14-2012, 02:21 PM
Castro signed with the Rockies for 50K, quite the far cry from the 800K he agreed to with Toronto. Leads me to believe the injury concern that popped up in his physical must have been quite significant.

Wow. Surprised that his re-signed contract is that cheap.

Sanyo
08-14-2012, 02:54 PM
If only the Jays had known he could have re-signed for cheap... lol

Krylian
08-14-2012, 03:13 PM
If only the Jays had known he could have re-signed for cheap... lol

Must've not thought it was worth it, based on what his physical revlealed.

MikeSirotka
08-14-2012, 04:54 PM
I feel bad for the guy. That $800k would have set him up nicely for life! Plus International bonuses rarely end up going directly to the kid. In most cases, the bulk of the money will be used to pay off the player's former team... [Someone fact check that.]