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View Full Version : Is Amare the worst defensive big man in the NBA?



knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 08:29 PM
Alright I believe Amare is the worst big man defender in the league. This is a conclusion I have come to a while ago, but I want to see what some non-Knicks fans think about this. I believe Amare on the court might actually be worse than a 5 on 4 defensively, because with Amare the other players have the illusion of a 5 on 5 so they don't switch up the way they play defense to match a 5 on 4 situation. Now I have written a ton about Amare's league worst (IMO) defense in the Knicks forum, but I want to know what the general forum thinks. Is there a PF or Center out there who is a worse defender than Amare?

justinnum1
04-22-2012, 08:37 PM
You know your going to get flamed for making yet another knicks thread, right?

To answer your question, yes, he is one of the worst i have ever seen. Dude is getting paid 20mil per year and is clueless when it comes to defense.

RonE Coleman
04-22-2012, 08:40 PM
And your a Knicks fan? Go **** yourself

BklynKnicks3
04-22-2012, 08:41 PM
id say worst starting defender in NBA history

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 08:41 PM
You know your going to get flamed for making yet another knicks thread, right?

To answer your question, yes, he is one of the worst i have ever seen. Dude is getting paid 20mil per year and is clueless when it comes to defense.

I am a Knicks fan, I'm just wondering what unbiased basketball fans think of Amare and his defense. Maybe there is an even worse defender out there somewhere. If people want to flame me that's fine I really don't care.

justinnum1
04-22-2012, 08:43 PM
he is terrible. Especially when he plays the 5. Miami will for sure target him evertime on the court and attack him. He missed defnesive rotations causing your whole team defense to get screwed up. Just one of the many reasons i think the knicks are better/scarier without amare.

effen5
04-22-2012, 08:43 PM
Yes, Boozer lately at least has been giving it all in the defensive end...I'm not sure what Amare is doing...

RC3
04-22-2012, 08:45 PM
You know its obvious. Good offensive player. Average rebounder.but not a great defender. Does Not try hard enough.

But the same could be said about some other power forwards.

Most of the top forwards are not what you call elite defenders.

PleaseBeNice
04-22-2012, 08:47 PM
STFU about the knicks

Chronz
04-22-2012, 08:48 PM
Whats sad is he used to be better

Blair is pretty bad to me but hes undersized with no knees.



And your a Knicks fan? Go **** yourself

I agree, his objectivity is intolerable.

IDunknown
04-22-2012, 08:52 PM
You know its obvious. Good offensive player. Average rebounder.but not a great defender. Does Not try hard enough.

But the same could be said about some other power forwards.

Most of the top forwards are not what you call elite defenders.

It's not that he isn't trying hard though.He actually looks like he really doesn't know what he's supposed to do.

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 08:53 PM
Whats sad is he used to be better, guy is getting worse.

Blair is pretty bad to me but hes undersized with no knees.

Do you think he's worse than Amare? I literally cannot think of a single player who is as bad in every facet of defensive play as Amare. If I have kids in the future I will show them game tape of Amare to teach them what not to do on the defensive end.

I think the one saving grace of Blair might be the fact that he boxes out, I understand that boxing out pertains to rebounding, but if a tie breaker is needed I think the fact that he boxes out puts him above Amare.



I agree, his objectivity is intolerable.


I blocked him a while ago, the guy is a troll.

dalton749
04-22-2012, 08:57 PM
he hasn't played for any team that has even tried to play defence in his career im sure his brain has been hurting since dantoni left

KB24PG16
04-22-2012, 08:59 PM
if marvin had another second he wouldve dunked it after amare let him go straight into the paint without any resistance

Slimsim
04-22-2012, 09:01 PM
he's coming back after back injury but yeah he's pretty dreadful

justinnum1
04-22-2012, 09:01 PM
no one is worse than amare. Its really bad. Dude is like a matador out there.

jimm120
04-22-2012, 09:04 PM
Amare will have blocks in his games...he DOES try sometimes. His main problem is his "hustle" on the defensive end on a consistent basis. He'll often decide to just watch someone pass by than get his hands dirty. But he DOES put in the effort on defense sometimes...and when he does, he does end up getting a block or putting temporary pressure.

But that's the problem also. He does excert himself for a few plays every game, but not often enough. Melo, Shumpert, Tyson...when I see them play defense, what I see is not always a consistent effort. Course not. Not always. There really aren't players like that out there. But the main thing for defense is not necessarily to get the block or steal. Its to alter the shot. Pester the offense.


That's where Amare doesn't do well on.

But he does "play defense" in the form of blocks and steals...4 or 6 times a game.

So, don't say he's the most horrible defender out there. Its just he only goes for the block sometimes. But when he does, he shows he has the power, speed, and defensive intelligence to do so. And Amare has proved it a few times in which he can do so for extended periods of times (not games, but periods and halfs).

LakersSaintsLSU
04-22-2012, 09:06 PM
if marvin had another second he wouldve dunked it after amare let him go straight into the paint without any resistance

Love the sig!

IDunknown
04-22-2012, 09:09 PM
Do you think he's worse than Amare? I literally cannot think of a single player who is as bad in every facet of defensive play as Amare. If I have kids in the future I will show them game tape of Amare to teach them what not to do on the defensive end.

I think the one saving grace of Blair might be the fact that he boxes out, I understand that boxing out pertains to rebounding, but if a tie breaker is needed I think the fact that he boxes out puts him above Amare.





I blocked him a while ago, the guy is a troll.

He can block shots because of his athleticism.It seems like any situation where he has to think that he struggles.He doesn't know when to go over or under a pick,or bring help defense.

LakersSaintsLSU
04-22-2012, 09:16 PM
hes week no chance phil comes back to coach that team not his type of players maybe melo and one more guy but come on

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 09:16 PM
He can block shots because of his athleticism.It seems like any situation where he has to think that he struggles.He doesn't know when to go over or under a pick,or bring help defense.

I actually think he is bad in man to man defense, I have never seen a man get crossed by as many slow footed scrubs as Amare, literally any player in the NBA short of maybe Eddy Curry could cross the guy. Now he does sometimes make up for getting crossed by blocking the shot, but really he is pathetic even in man to man defense.

Raph12
04-22-2012, 09:19 PM
They need Tyson to cover up for him defensively, but Amare needs more room to operate on offense, so it's a lose-lose situation...

IDunknown
04-22-2012, 09:20 PM
I actually think he is bad in man to man defense, I have never seen a man get crossed by as man slow footed scrubs as Amare, literally any player in the NBA short of maybe Eddy Curry could cross the guy. Now he does sometimes make up for getting crossed by blocking the shot, but really he is pathetic even in man to man defense.

You're right.After I posted I started thinking of that play against the Cavs when Thompson went by him from the three point line.

justinnum1
04-22-2012, 09:20 PM
they need tyson to cover up for him defensively, but amare needs more room to operate on offense, so it's a lose-lose situation...

+1

D12 fan
04-22-2012, 09:25 PM
I remember Amare when he played for Phx,said he doesn't try hard on defense because he saves his energy for offense,that should tell you how he feels about defense.

Giannis94
04-22-2012, 09:28 PM
Haha Amare isn't good but lets be honest there are a few guys worse than Amare. 1 is on the knicks roster. Meet Dan (G.O.A.T) Gadzuric.

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 09:29 PM
Haha Amare isn't good but lets be honest there are a few guys worse than Amare. 1 is on the knicks roster. Meet Dan (G.O.A.T) Gadzuric.



I seriously don't think there is one out there, but I haven't watch Dan play, its hard to imagine anyone is worse than Amare though.

Giannis94
04-22-2012, 09:32 PM
I seriously don't think there is one out there, but I haven't watch Dan play, its hard to imagine anyone is worse than Amare though.

I can't tell if your being serious.....

justinnum1
04-22-2012, 09:34 PM
lol

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 09:34 PM
I can't tell if your being serious.....

I am, I seriously don't know if Gadzuric is a worse defender than Amare, I don't know if anyone is. I think he is literally as bad as it gets.

Dankster
04-22-2012, 09:52 PM
My man Knicksfan42! To your defense, you've been on the anti-Amar'e bandwagon since we signed him last year, so I respect the fact that you don't at least flip-flop with your assessment of him. You've been pretty much consistent with your criticism of Amar'e and a good portion of it is warranted.

Now I'm curious if you meant starting power forward or just the worst front line player defensively in the NBA whether starting or not? Either way, that's kind of embarassing for a guy making 20 million to be as piss poor as he is defensively.

To Stat's defense though, his weak side defense is pretty good whenever he actually focuses on the weak side help. And he can get timely blocks here and there (was the reason we beat Miami last year at MIA and his block on Rose with under a minute left last year sealed that win for us as well.)

I would like to see more zone coverage maybe by the Knicks, it would help disguise/mask the deficiencies of Stoudemire on the defensive end pretty well i think.

Crackadalic
04-22-2012, 09:56 PM
Came straight out of HS. Play in a Dantoni system for years that doesn't keep accountability on defense. Can't really blame him if he lacks basic fundamentals on D. Theres times were he actually tries and still sucks at it

As for worse defender at his position idk. Can someone bring up some stats that says other wise? Blake is pretty dreadful IMO

justinnum1
04-22-2012, 09:57 PM
With a zone you guys would get murdered on the glass.

YashBoone
04-22-2012, 09:57 PM
There has to beat least one, right.

I think it is just magnified because you watch him every single game.

But im not even gonna venture a guess, cause that's all it would be.

I just don't get it.... When he plays d, instead of staying in front of his man, he literally, and on purpose, turns his body and let's the guy by..... It's almost like he thinks it gives him an edge or something to block the shot...

And I actually like amare but I can't stand to watch that ****.

YashBoone
04-22-2012, 10:02 PM
And by the way, i like how you started this thread in the general forum, but it's mostly knick fans in here..... Lol

Did you expect any less from us?

BH-Sports
04-22-2012, 10:04 PM
I don't understand why people still think he's good... He is probably the most overpaid in the NBA and can't play inspired basketball to save his life. Obviously as stated, his defense is non-existent and his offensive skills are not anywhere close to where it used to be in PHX. Honestly, Ill take KG over Amare. Even Boozer over Amare.

GMEN4EVER
04-22-2012, 10:05 PM
He's not the worst in the league, but he's far from being even average. Biggest waste of talent considering his athleticism? Now that would be one I'd go along with. That's what's so dam annoying with Amar'e. He has the physical skills to be at the very least a good defender and a great rebounder. He just doesn't care enough to make it happen, despite all the tall talk off the court...

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 10:07 PM
My man Knicksfan42! To your defense, you've been on the anti-Amar'e bandwagon since we signed him last year, so I respect the fact that you don't at least flip-flop with your assessment of him. You've been pretty much consistent with your criticism of Amar'e and a good portion of it is warranted.


I think pretty much all of it has been warranted. During the 2010 offseason People were joking we would get Johnson and Amare instead of LeBron and Bosh; I am just thankful we didn't get Johnson as well otherwise Seppuku would have been the only option for me.



Now I'm curious if you meant starting power forward or just the worst front line player defensively in the NBA whether starting or not? Either way, that's kind of embarassing for a guy making 20 million to be as piss poor as he is defensively.

To Stat's defense though, his weak side defense is pretty good whenever he actually focuses on the weak side help. And he can get timely blocks here and there (was the reason we beat Miami last year at MIA and his block on Rose with under a minute left last year sealed that win for us as well.)

I would like to see more zone coverage maybe by the Knicks, it would help disguise/mask the deficiencies of Stoudemire on the defensive end pretty well i think.

I mean worst front line player starting or not defensively and I'm serious about it. I don't think there is anybody who is as bad as Amare is in every facet of defensive play.

Do you think he plays better weakside help D than the average nba big ma?. Yes he gets big blocks at times, but his poor defense is, in many instances, responsible for us needing a big block.

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 10:09 PM
And by the way, i like how you started this thread in the general forum, but it's mostly knick fans in here..... Lol

Did you expect any less from us?

No I didn't I expected a bunch of Knicks fan in here. I expect a bunch of Knicks fans in any thread in the NBA forum particularly in a topic dealing with the Knicks. I just wanted some input from people who are not Knicks fans.

BH-Sports
04-22-2012, 10:11 PM
He's not the worst in the league, but he's far from being even average. Biggest waste of talent considering his athleticism? Now that would be one I'd go along with. That's what's so dam annoying with Amar'e. He has the physical skills to be at the very least a good defender and a great rebounder. He just doesn't care enough to make it happen, despite all the tall talk off the court...

to be honest with you, I don't even think Amare has the physical skills to be elite anymore. The years of injuries and surgeries basically made him half the player that he is. I truly believe hes going to regress tremendously from here. He should have tried when he could have.

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 10:27 PM
I don't understand why people still think he's good... He is probably the most overpaid in the NBA and can't play inspired basketball to save his life. Obviously as stated, his defense is non-existent and his offensive skills are not anywhere close to where it used to be in PHX. Honestly, Ill take KG over Amare. Even Boozer over Amare.

He isn't the most overpaid, but he's definitely immensely overpaid. And I would definitely take Garnett over him, without question. As for Boozer, maybe? He does box out better.

LongIslandIcedZ
04-22-2012, 10:32 PM
I am very interested to see if a full offseason with defense actually drilled into his head changes anything. I mean defense hasnt been stressed at all in his entire professional career. He has the strength and athleticism to be a very good defender, he just needs to learn. It could be too late, but he's a very hard worker, and it would be best for his career. I doubt he'll ever improve, but I'm holding out hope.

justinnum1
04-22-2012, 10:41 PM
He isn't the most overpaid, but he's definitely immensely overpaid. And I would definitely take Garnett over him, without question. As for Boozer, maybe? He does box out better.

boozer @13mil>amare @ 20mil no doubt about that

D-Leethal
04-22-2012, 10:52 PM
David Lee is worse defensively but not many others.

felixng2012
04-22-2012, 11:03 PM
There are few "elite" players that are as bad as he is defensively. The fact that he is paid 20m makes it even worse. I just think he has developed bad habits in terms of defense. He literally played no defense in the Mike No D Antoni system and thats why he was able to be so incredibly great offensively(that and Steve Nash and the face paced offense).

elizur
04-22-2012, 11:04 PM
He is really bad. I was scared on the last play tonight and Amare get burned. Good thing the buzzer ran out/guy missed a dunk

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 11:08 PM
David Lee is worse defensively but not many others.



Haha, I actually disagree. David Lee isn't good, he's quite bad actually, but he's not as bad as Amare for sure. In fact I think that at the 4 spot his (Lee's) defense is merely below average, at the 5 spot its pretty ****ing awful. Again though Lee isn't as bad as STAT and the fact that Lee actually boxes out is also a plus.



Actually remembering Lee I think he's a top 5 worst big man defender, maybe even a top 3 worst, but he's still better than Amare.

felixng2012
04-22-2012, 11:10 PM
During the off season he really needs to learn how to play proper defense. It will be hard but he has to learn. >_<

KingPosey
04-22-2012, 11:24 PM
You need to qualify this. The worst STARTING big man defender...? As a King's fan, I can tell you that Brad Miller probably takes the honor now that he is the 10th man off the bench and an aging vet. Look at any teams 12th guy and you will find a candidate.

kingsdelez24
04-22-2012, 11:30 PM
Didn't he once get 10 blocks in a game with the suns?

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 11:30 PM
You need to qualify this. The worst STARTING big man defender...? As a King's fan, I can tell you that Brad Miller probably takes the honor now that he is the 10th man off the bench and an aging vet. Look at any teams 12th guy and you will find a candidate.

I'm sorry I forgot most people don't watch Amare play every game. I meant worst big man defender period. I honestly don't think their is anyone who plays with as little effort and brains on defense as Amare. I think that a 12th man off the bench might at least give some effort or play with some intelligence on defense. So I do believe Amare could be the worst defender in the NBA.

Punk
04-22-2012, 11:31 PM
His man to man D is fine but when a players drive against him he sucks horribly. His help defense is awful.

But I will was he was starting to turn the corner defensively during the first 7 games under Woodson then he got hurt and I'm sure it will take time for him to regain that focus.

His defense wasn't that bad today actually.

knicksfan42
04-22-2012, 11:31 PM
Didn't he once get 10 blocks in a game with the suns?

He did back in 04.

Becks2307
04-22-2012, 11:40 PM
he can't be, remember when he played against dirk? he shut him down for a while pretty well and even asked before the game to guard him.

Amare just has no clue, he has been under mike d for 7 out of his 9 years in the League, i bet now that Woodson is focusing in on him he will play better.

David Lee has to be worst though. At least Amare can get a block here and there, he had a pretty nasty one vs Brand before he got injured.

smood999
04-22-2012, 11:41 PM
hes pretty bad not gonna lie...he earned his money last yr and before his recent back injury....the few weeks before that (starting after all star break) he was starting to play like last yr amare...so i dont think hes that bad...took him a while to regain form like alot of players this season...but yeah still terrible on d

b@llhog24
04-22-2012, 11:48 PM
Boozer, and maybe Z-bo but then again they actually rebound the ball so its a tossup.

SportsFanatic10
04-22-2012, 11:53 PM
i wouldn't say worst defensive big. pretty bad though, possibly worst big name defensive big since hes supposed to be a star.

justinnum1
04-22-2012, 11:55 PM
Boozer aint paid like amare is, nor is boozer considered a "star"

b@llhog24
04-22-2012, 11:57 PM
Boozer aint paid like amare is, nor is boozer considered a "star"

He's speaking in terms of frontcourt players in general though.

justinnum1
04-23-2012, 12:02 AM
He's speaking in terms of frontcourt players in general though.

it depends. When he is playing the 5 like he was today, it was pretty hard to watch. At the 4, he's still pretty bad, but he usually guards the weaker of the opposing bigs.

sharqstealth
04-23-2012, 12:15 AM
I don't think he is the worst, but he is the laziest! Amare can play D if he wants to... I've seen games where when it's down the wire and he goes for a game saving block... I also think one problem with him is that he's afraid to bang bodies and sacrifice himself on D because he is scared to get injured...

TrueFan420
04-23-2012, 12:40 AM
mikki moore /thread

BK-TY
04-23-2012, 12:54 AM
I can almost GUARANTEE he'll be better next season after Woody and Chandler have a full training camp to work with him. I'm not saying he's gonna turn into Ben Wallace, Duncan or KG but I'm sure they'll get him more respectable as far as help defense goes.

AIRMAR72
04-23-2012, 01:02 AM
his 1st few season before the injury amare was a force dunking in traffic and playing defense he needs to play with more EFFORT and fire like his early yrs in the league

sunnydayin'zona
04-23-2012, 02:39 AM
I can almost GUARANTEE he'll be better next season after Woody and Chandler have a full training camp to work with him. I'm not saying he's gonna turn into Ben Wallace, Duncan or KG but I'm sure they'll get him more respectable as far as help defense goes.

Dude...I said that for 7 years...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-23-2012, 02:52 AM
he probably is

--23--
04-23-2012, 02:54 AM
I don't know if he's the worst ever but for a guy with his athletic abilities(pre-injury) he has to be up there.

dodie53
04-23-2012, 03:55 AM
he sucks at D

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 05:50 AM
I can almost GUARANTEE he'll be better next season after Woody and Chandler have a full training camp to work with him. I'm not saying he's gonna turn into Ben Wallace, Duncan or KG but I'm sure they'll get him more respectable as far as help defense goes.

I can guarantee that he wont get any better, in fact I'm almost certain he'll get worse (if that's possible). Amare is lazy and stupid and even more than a step slow in his lateral quickness. He's been in the league for 9 seasons, he's going to be 30 by the time next season starts.

UKblazers
04-23-2012, 08:07 AM
Dejuan blair might be a worse on ball defender, simply due to lack of length. Nobody matches Amare when it comes to off ball defence.

Fnom11
04-23-2012, 09:23 AM
Blake's defense is much worse than Amare's in my opinion. Ironically they both have fantastic help defense centers to help them.

kdspurman
04-23-2012, 09:40 AM
Dirk, Boozer, Bosh, Blair, are all pretty bad too. Griffin's name should get mentioned here too

knicks4life33
04-23-2012, 10:20 AM
What kinda knick fan starts a thread to bash his own player. I have yet to see any poster start a thread to bash his player. Imagine a Miami heat fan starting a thread about lebron in the clutch? At least start a thread like this in knicks forum

SanAntonioSpurs23
04-23-2012, 10:28 AM
Dejuan Blair is about 10 times worse than Amare...

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 10:37 AM
I can almost GUARANTEE he'll be better next season after Woody and Chandler have a full training camp to work with him. I'm not saying he's gonna turn into Ben Wallace, Duncan or KG but I'm sure they'll get him more respectable as far as help defense goes.

I can guarantee that he wont get any better, in fact I'm almost certain he'll get worse (if that's possible). Amare is lazy and stupid and even more than a step slow in his lateral quickness. He's been in the league for 9 seasons, he's going to be 30 by the time next season starts.

This is where my opinion will always split from yoursbecause you think that you can pass a future prediction off a fact.

I agree with you that his d is bad, but you can't guarantee that it will never get better but you are very adamant about it.

Going into next season, it will be the very first time amare will have a full summer and training camp with a defensie coach and Tyson chandler.... First time in his entire career.

So if it's ever going to happen, it will be then, if it doesn't then that's when you can say with certainty that it will never happen.

My only other beef with you is that you seem like you actively root against amare which I just don't get.

DaLyingofJungl3
04-23-2012, 10:48 AM
Chris Bosh is also a BAD Defender.

Kashmir13579
04-23-2012, 12:33 PM
He's up there with that dude on the Raptors.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2012, 01:52 PM
to answer the question, he isn't the worst most likely, but he is a really, really bad defender.

ewing
04-23-2012, 02:17 PM
This thread is aweful and yes you are an Amare hater. Hating Amare is all you post about. Amare is not a good defender. He insanely stiff laterally and doesn't know how to use his body. That said he is not the worst defensive big in the league. He is actually a lot better then guys like Miller, bargs, Scalabrini, Radmad- off the top of my head. Try enjoying a basketball game inst of only watching to trash a guy on a team you say you root for. Jesus, "its worse then 5 on 4 with Amare on the floor"???? He is a 6'10 PF who can still get off the ground. WTF are you talking about???????????

ewing
04-23-2012, 02:45 PM
If you wanted honest opinions from fans outside of NY you would have asked for that instead of spreading nonsense like I think the knicks are better 4 on 5 what do you think? Your a troll.

nycsports2
04-23-2012, 02:53 PM
not the worst bc he does actually get some nice blocks in and is an ok rebounder but his man 2 man D is just terrible

BradHolt4CYoung
04-23-2012, 02:59 PM
Yes he is atrocious. I dont think he puts 100% on D. On some plays I have watched this year someone would drive to the basket and Amare was right their, but he just stood their and didn't bother to contest the shot.

YoungStuna
04-23-2012, 03:26 PM
David Lee is worse defensively but not many others.

Agreed. Lee is ****ing terrible. Faried torched him last week I believe.

smith&wesson
04-23-2012, 03:28 PM
could it be because he has played under mike dantoni most his career ? hmmm. another star who played under dantoni who doesnt play much D at all. steve nash!!

SluggeR
04-23-2012, 03:49 PM
I'm not gonna lie, it does get frustrating watching STAT play defense in quarters 1,2, & 3. He wusually will step up his D in a close game that is in the fourth quarter. It's not an excuse but I think he avoids some defensive situations to try to prevent injuries (to his eye area). When he wants to be, he's a pretty good shot blocker. He avoids a lot of defensive plays and still had a 150 blocks last year. I hate it when he over plays big men on the perimeter or any players on ther perimeter for that matter. I have seen STAT switch to the guard on pick-n-rolls more times than I can stomach, and allow the big to slash to the basket for another teammate to guard. 1st game of the playoffs, if the game is close in the 4th quarter watch how STAT increases his D.

NYK_kidd77
04-23-2012, 03:54 PM
He's one of the worst i've ever seen. Dude just has no clue what to do on the defensive end of the court.

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 04:24 PM
This is where my opinion will always split from yoursbecause you think that you can pass a future prediction off a fact.

I agree with you that his d is bad, but you can't guarantee that it will never get better but you are very adamant about it.

Going into next season, it will be the very first time amare will have a full summer and training camp with a defensie coach and Tyson chandler.... First time in his entire career.

So if it's ever going to happen, it will be then, if it doesn't then that's when you can say with certainty that it will never happen.




I guarantee the US wont go to war with China tomorrow. I can't state this to an absolute certainty and its obviously not a fact, because anything can happen, but looking at the evidence I can infer it wont. I can infer from watching Amare play, the fact that he has suffered numerous injuries (most recently his second back injury), the fact that he is going to be 30 next season and has played in the NBA for 9 seasons during which he has actually declined defensively (likely due to his injuries) that he wont get better defensively.

He's worked with the best defensive minds in basketball: every defensive coordinator/coach on any team he's been on. Looking at Amare's game there's nothing to be corrected with tips and tricks. You could for instance teach Shumpert how to get over screens better or train Landry not to fall for fakes, but you can't teach a guy with a defensive basketball IQ of 0 and an effort level of I don't give a **** how to do everything defensively. He lacks the brains and the heart to be an even supbar defender let alone a good one; his injuries I believe have made him an even worse defender.




My only other beef with you is that you seem like you actively root against amare which I just don't get


I don't root for Amare to play poorly if that's what you mean, because I want the team to do win and players playing poorly would either prevent that from happening or make it harder to do so. I want Amare to perform well, because I want the team to perform well. Now if you're asking me whether I like the guy, I ****ing despise him. Now I don't hate him personally, I hate him, because I like basketball and I love the Knicks. Amare is an awful player, a fat ****ing leech, and is the reason we will never even sniff championship for the next 3 years. His stupidity and incredibly offensive (it offends) laziness are disgusting. Any game where he plays his typical defense and doesn't score 50+ points is a bad game, so Amare rarely has a good game. The man is now a cancer, plain and simple.

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 04:26 PM
to answer the question, he isn't the worst most likely, but he is a really, really bad defender.



Can you think of anyone who is worse? It seems Blair may be worse. Though Blair is missing acls in both knees and he's only 6'7.

ewing
04-23-2012, 04:45 PM
I guarantee the US wont go to war with China tomorrow. I can't state this to an absolute certainty and its obviously not a fact, because anything can happen, but looking at the evidence I can infer it wont. I can infer from watching Amare play, the fact that he has suffered numerous injuries (most recently his second back injury), the fact that he is going to be 30 next season and has played in the NBA for 9 seasons during which he has actually declined defensively (likely due to his injuries) that he wont get better defensively.

He's worked with the best defensive minds in basketball: every defensive coordinator/coach on any team he's been on. Looking at Amare's game there's nothing to be corrected with tips and tricks. You could for instance teach Shumpert how to get over screens better or train Landry not to fall for fakes, but you can't teach a guy with a defensive basketball IQ of 0 and an effort level of I don't give a **** how to do everything defensively. He lacks the brains and the heart to be an even supbar defender let alone a good one; his injuries I believe have made him an even worse defender.





I don't root for Amare to play poorly if that's what you mean, because I want the team to do win and players playing poorly would either prevent that from happening or make it harder to do so. I want Amare to perform well, because I want the team to perform well. Now if you're asking me whether I like the guy, I ****ing despise him. Now I don't hate him personally, I hate him, because I like basketball and I love the Knicks. Amare is an awful player, a fat ****ing leech, and is the reason we will never even sniff championship for the next 3 years. His stupidity and incredibly offensive (it offends) laziness are disgusting. Any game where he plays his typical defense and doesn't score 50+ points is a bad game, so Amare rarely has a good game. The man is now a cancer, plain and simple.


Yeah your not a hater at all. Nope.

NYkillaPriest
04-23-2012, 04:48 PM
He isn't as bad as yall are trying to make him out to be...the thing is he is disinterested on the defensive end...the one thing is there is no way he is the worst defensive big when he averaged 2 bpg last season...there is no arguing the fact that some bigs don't even get 1 bpg...the thing is Amare is slow to rotate over because he doesn't want to get dunked on...Amare has never claimed to be a good defender he actually says that he was never taught defense so what did you expect...but to say he is the worst defender is laughable

NYkillaPriest
04-23-2012, 04:56 PM
I'm not gonna lie, it does get frustrating watching STAT play defense in quarters 1,2, & 3. He wusually will step up his D in a close game that is in the fourth quarter. It's not an excuse but I think he avoids some defensive situations to try to prevent injuries (to his eye area). When he wants to be, he's a pretty good shot blocker. He avoids a lot of defensive plays and still had a 150 blocks last year. I hate it when he over plays big men on the perimeter or any players on ther perimeter for that matter. I have seen STAT switch to the guard on pick-n-rolls more times than I can stomach, and allow the big to slash to the basket for another teammate to guard. 1st game of the playoffs, if the game is close in the 4th quarter watch how STAT increases his D.

this exactly...he is just disinterested in doing the dirty work including bosing out...just watch Amare on backside help when there is no body down low to bang him he instantly becomes one of the best shot blockers in the league

teddygreen17
04-23-2012, 05:04 PM
Yes, before surgery too. Man he's terrible..im a knicks fan...but yeah...he just might be the worst.

Clyde "Matador D".

DragonJaii
04-23-2012, 05:06 PM
hes terrible, lets opponents walk right by him for a layup. But the blame is on dantoni for being his coach for so long.

WAYNEBO
04-23-2012, 05:16 PM
^^^ Idiot Bulls Fan Alert ^^^

We all agree, STAT is a turrible defender.... no doubt. But how can a coach at the pro level be to blame for basic fundamentals?? It goes to his youth and lack of proper fundatmentals -- he went straight to the bigs -- and since his knee surgeries, his ability and willingness to absorb contact is obviously lacking. Don't blame the coach... and I'm the biggest D'Andummi critic.

DragonJaii
04-23-2012, 05:24 PM
^^^ Idiot Bulls Fan Alert ^^^

We all agree, STAT is a turrible defender.... no doubt. But how can a coach at the pro level be to blame for basic fundamentals?? It goes to his youth and lack of proper fundatmentals -- he went straight to the bigs -- and since his knee surgeries, his ability and willingness to absorb contact is obviously lacking. Don't blame the coach... and I'm the biggest D'Andummi critic.

coach don't preach defense, so he don't play it. :facepalm:

WAYNEBO
04-23-2012, 05:38 PM
So based on your logic then, he should be DPOY next season w/ Coach Woody running the ship???

WAYNEBO
04-23-2012, 05:39 PM
Just half of what Tyson does and I'd be happier than Clinton in Columbia.

DragonJaii
04-23-2012, 05:45 PM
So based on your logic then, he should be DPOY next season w/ Coach Woody running the ship???

He should be improved with a defensive coach running the ship. No?

EYDI819
04-23-2012, 06:13 PM
He's probably thinking... "Why play defense if I already have Chandler and Shumpert doing it for me" :D

rhino17
04-23-2012, 06:14 PM
I would say Scola, at least amara will occasionally block a shot

still a fan
04-23-2012, 06:35 PM
Funny Thing here is this poster needs to seek out therapy because go check out his posts? 95% of them are trashing Amare, the Knicks in a heated game with Atlanta and Amare is playing well but negative posts only focusing on Amare?

Its sad to me to have an agenda like that, but is he the worst?

I read all over the internet how The Bulls call Boozer the worst, and the Spurs call Blair the worse, then there is Charlie V's non existant defense.

Actually the worst big in the game on defense happens to be on the knicks lol, and its not Amare, but its probably the best shooter in the league, in Novak.

He can't play defense a lick, won't grab boards and won't help and never blocks shots.

But this poster for some reason lets this pass?

He hates Amare we all get it, but he needs a shrink because its obsessive and gets old.

Does Amare get me angry? Heck yea, but I will also point out when he does hustle and make stops and help defends.

This is a nonsense thread, but I'm not surprised, I guess he had to take it to a different forum lol

Sssmush
04-23-2012, 08:30 PM
troy murphy is worse

IDunknown
04-23-2012, 08:41 PM
Funny Thing here is this poster needs to seek out therapy because go check out his posts? 95% of them are trashing Amare, the Knicks in a heated game with Atlanta and Amare is playing well but negative posts only focusing on Amare?

Its sad to me to have an agenda like that, but is he the worst?

I read all over the internet how The Bulls call Boozer the worst, and the Spurs call Blair the worse, then there is Charlie V's non existant defense.

Actually the worst big in the game on defense happens to be on the knicks lol, and its not Amare, but its probably the best shooter in the league, in Novak.

He can't play defense a lick, won't grab boards and won't help and never blocks shots.

But this poster for some reason lets this pass?

He hates Amare we all get it, but he needs a shrink because its obsessive and gets old.

Does Amare get me angry? Heck yea, but I will also point out when he does hustle and make stops and help defends.

This is a nonsense thread, but I'm not surprised, I guess he had to take it to a different forum lol

Novak is slow, but he doesn't miss his rotations.He plays smart defense he just isn't athletic.

ewing
04-23-2012, 08:57 PM
hes terrible, lets opponents walk right by him for a layup. But the blame is on dantoni for being his coach for so long.


How do you explain Marion, Bell, Daiw, Jared Jeffries and all the other players that have exceled under Dantoni and are good defenders?

LongIslandIcedZ
04-23-2012, 09:04 PM
He should be improved with a defensive coach running the ship. No?

I think this actually makes a lot of sense, I dont know why that guy is getting on your case.

If your coach never ever stresses defense in the slightest, how can you expected to be great defensively.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but with a new coach with new philosophies, maybe we will see an improved Amar'e. I wouldnt bet on it, but I wouldnt call it impossible.

ewing
04-23-2012, 09:06 PM
Funny Thing here is this poster needs to seek out therapy because go check out his posts? 95% of them are trashing Amare, the Knicks in a heated game with Atlanta and Amare is playing well but negative posts only focusing on Amare?

Its sad to me to have an agenda like that, but is he the worst?

I read all over the internet how The Bulls call Boozer the worst, and the Spurs call Blair the worse, then there is Charlie V's non existant defense.

Actually the worst big in the game on defense happens to be on the knicks lol, and its not Amare, but its probably the best shooter in the league, in Novak.

He can't play defense a lick, won't grab boards and won't help and never blocks shots.

But this poster for some reason lets this pass?

He hates Amare we all get it, but he needs a shrink because its obsessive and gets old.

Does Amare get me angry? Heck yea, but I will also point out when he does hustle and make stops and help defends.

This is a nonsense thread, but I'm not surprised, I guess he had to take it to a different forum lol


I actually think Novak plays surprising decent defense on the perimeter. Of course he has no interior presence and gets muscles around but thats why he's been a jumpshooting journey man until now.

On the other hand according to knicks42 Amare, who has been a or thee main cog on winning teams his whole career, needs to score 50 to offset the places he hurts you and its actually worse then playing 5 on 4 on D with him on the floor. :facepalm:

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 09:17 PM
Funny Thing here is this poster needs to seek out therapy because go check out his posts? 95% of them are trashing Amare, the Knicks in a heated game with Atlanta and Amare is playing well but negative posts only focusing on Amare?

Its sad to me to have an agenda like that, but is he the worst?

I read all over the internet how The Bulls call Boozer the worst, and the Spurs call Blair the worse, then there is Charlie V's non existant defense.

Actually the worst big in the game on defense happens to be on the knicks lol, and its not Amare, but its probably the best shooter in the league, in Novak.

He can't play defense a lick, won't grab boards and won't help and never blocks shots.

But this poster for some reason lets this pass?

He hates Amare we all get it, but he needs a shrink because its obsessive and gets old.

Does Amare get me angry? Heck yea, but I will also point out when he does hustle and make stops and help defends.

This is a nonsense thread, but I'm not surprised, I guess he had to take it to a different forum lol

Well Stilla I'll ignore the fact that you are insulting me, which it is by the way, insults and it is baiting. If one of the decent mods here thought that I did something wrong they would close this thread.


I can post about whatever I so damn please as long as I am following the rules. Now its very interesting that in the Knicks forum, whenever I did post something about Amare, you never countered it, never had any response. No seriously why not debate something I wrote instead of beginning with an ad hominem attack.

In fact Stilla why don't you tell the people here that when I typically write about Amare, about something he does wrong, I use things like statistics and basic logical reasoning, which I don't recall you ever arguing with.


Its interesting that I am crazy because of the possibility that Amare is merely one of the worst defenders in the NBA, but he isn't the worst (in your opinion). Novak is terrible, but I have seen him try and do not so terribly for, I think with Novak he just doesn't have the athleticism to defend well, the same way Blair is undersized and missing 2 ACLs. Now maybe they are worse defenders in which case my question has been answered. Boozer is actually not only a better defender (however so slightly), but he also boxes out as does Blair. And I have a feeling 0 names would be given if I said is Amare the worst starting defensive PF in the game.


In case anyone here is wondering what a typical long-winded post about Amare by me is like (I actually don't usually use all caps to divide up the arguments usually):



FACTS NOT UNDER DISPUTE BY ANYBODY:

Amare is an abysmal defender.


FACTS UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN WITH STATISTICS:

Amare is a bad rebounder.

Amare is 20th in TRR (Total Rebounding Rate) amongst power forwards who have played at least 20 mpg in at least 20 games this season. If we added centers to the mix in rebounding Amare would be 47th in TRR.


FACTS POSSIBLY UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN WITH STATISTICS:

Amare has played like **** offensively this year.

Amare is (among power forwards who have played at least 20 mpg in at least 20 games this season):

23rd in PER, 21st in APER, 24th in WS, 21st in AWS, 27th in TS%, 33rd in eFG%.


FACTS POSSIBLY UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN THROUGH LOGIC:

Amare is lazy.

Defense consists of three components: athleticism, intelligence, and effort. If you are bad defensively you are weak in one or more of these components.

Somehow I don't believe athleticism is the component Amare is weak in. That leaves effort and intelligence. Amare's defense woes are likely a combination of stupidity and lack of effort. From what I've seen it is obviously more laziness than stupidity.



Amare wont get better and will likely decline.

This statement is not true beyond a shadow of a doubt, but is highly likely, in fact it is more likely to be right than wrong.

Considering Amare's injury woes (micro-fracture surgery on both knees and recently a back injury) in combination with his age and his play this season it is simply very likely he wont get better and will instead decline (he has already declined so probably continue declining).




Here is what a not so bad typical response to me is like in the Knicks forum (in fact this is one of the most well thought out typical responses to me):


blah blah blah the guys a leader and a great teammate. Everyone wants to play gm, root for the team. Amare is a great dude, cool dude, i dont under stand how you people can hate the guy. I like this team and i'm going to pull for them, i'm not worried about 3 years from now.

Amare is going to prove alot of people wrong and this board is going to look quite silly whne he's making big plays in the playoffs and we're winning games. It'll be too late by them and i won't allow you people on the bandwagon.



Actually I lied a bit with the last one, the typical responses are more like: **** you, shut the **** up, go watch the Nets they need fans, or my favorite: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: this is the one stupidest posts I have ever read go. But is it any surprise that a mod like Stilla has cultivated such a nice and hospitable environment for the free discussion of ideas no matter how unpopular in the Knicks forum.


No I could go into a number of personal attacks on Stilla (many of which are valid), but for now I'll hold off.

VillaMaravilla
04-23-2012, 09:26 PM
some of you Knick fans just love to get on Amare but love to ride Melos jock, I swear sometimes I think some of you are only Melo fans not Knick fan.....I cant believe this thread was opened by someone who says hes a Knick fan SMH

Jamiecballer
04-23-2012, 09:27 PM
I'm shocked to see 8 pages of this thread and not one mention of Bargnani. I think his defensive awareness is worse. He's not bad when he has to body up against a man but he's completely lost in rotations and rarely even leaves his feet to challenge a shot.

ewing
04-23-2012, 09:33 PM
I'm shocked to see 8 pages of this thread and not one mention of Bargnani. I think his defensive awareness is worse. He's not bad when he has to body up against a man but he's completely lost in rotations and rarely even leaves his feet to challenge a shot.


I mentioned him and i wasnt the first. I cant blame you for not reading very scrap of **** in this thread though:)

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 09:41 PM
This is where my opinion will always split from yoursbecause you think that you can pass a future prediction off a fact.

I agree with you that his d is bad, but you can't guarantee that it will never get better but you are very adamant about it.

Going into next season, it will be the very first time amare will have a full summer and training camp with a defensie coach and Tyson chandler.... First time in his entire career.

So if it's ever going to happen, it will be then, if it doesn't then that's when you can say with certainty that it will never happen.




I guarantee the US wont go to war with China tomorrow. I can't state this to an absolute certainty and its obviously not a fact, because anything can happen, but looking at the evidence I can infer it wont. I can infer from watching Amare play, the fact that he has suffered numerous injuries (most recently his second back injury), the fact that he is going to be 30 next season and has played in the NBA for 9 seasons during which he has actually declined defensively (likely due to his injuries) that he wont get better defensively.

He's worked with the best defensive minds in basketball: every defensive coordinator/coach on any team he's been on. Looking at Amare's game there's nothing to be corrected with tips and tricks. You could for instance teach Shumpert how to get over screens better or train Landry not to fall for fakes, but you can't teach a guy with a defensive basketball IQ of 0 and an effort level of I don't give a **** how to do everything defensively. He lacks the brains and the heart to be an even supbar defender let alone a good one; his injuries I believe have made him an even worse defender.




My only other beef with you is that you seem like you actively root against amare which I just don't get


I don't root for Amare to play poorly if that's what you mean, because I want the team to do win and players playing poorly would either prevent that from happening or make it harder to do so. I want Amare to perform well, because I want the team to perform well. Now if you're asking me whether I like the guy, I ****ing despise him. Now I don't hate him personally, I hate him, because I like basketball and I love the Knicks. Amare is an awful player, a fat ****ing leech, and is the reason we will never even sniff championship for the next 3 years. His stupidity and incredibly offensive (it offends) laziness are disgusting. Any game where he plays his typical defense and doesn't score 50+ points is a bad game, so Amare rarely has a good game. The man is now a cancer, plain and simple.

Your hate for amare is borderline obsessive. It's pathetic really, cause if you were any kind of fan , then 90 percent of your posts wouldnt be bashing amare, even during a good game.

It's all you do.

I name ( stoic sentry) comes to mind..... No one likes a troll.

ewing
04-23-2012, 09:42 PM
Well Stilla I'll ignore the fact that you are insulting me, which it is by the way, insults and it is baiting. If one of the decent mods here thought that I did something wrong they would close this thread.


I can post about whatever I so damn please as long as I am following the rules. Now its very interesting that in the Knicks forum, whenever I did post something about Amare, you never countered it, never had any response. No seriously why not debate something I wrote instead of beginning with an ad hominem attack.

In fact Stilla why don't you tell the people here that when I typically write about Amare, about something he does wrong, I use things like statistics and basic logical reasoning, which I don't recall you ever arguing with.


Its interesting that I am crazy because of the possibility that Amare is merely one of the worst defenders in the NBA, but he isn't the worst (in your opinion). Novak is terrible, but I have seen him try and do not so terribly for, I think with Novak he just doesn't have the athleticism to defend well, the same way Blair is undersized and missing 2 ACLs. Now maybe they are worse defenders in which case my question has been answered. Boozer is actually not only a better defender (however so slightly), but he also boxes out as does Blair. And I have a feeling 0 names would be given if I said is Amare the worst starting defensive PF in the game.


In case anyone here is wondering what a typical long-winded post about Amare by me is like (I actually don't usually use all caps to divide up the arguments usually):






Here is what a not so bad typical response to me is like in the Knicks forum (in fact this is one of the most well thought out typical responses to me):




Actually I lied a bit with the last one, the typical responses are more like: **** you, shut the **** up, go watch the Nets they need fans, or my favorite: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: this is the one stupidest posts I have ever read go. But is it any surprise that a mod like Stilla has cultivated such a nice and hospitable environment for the free discussion of ideas no matter how unpopular in the Knicks forum.


No I could go into a number of personal attacks on Stilla (many of which are valid), but for now I'll hold off.


Fact: Amare is neither a a great or rebounder an defender.

Fact: You act like he is the worst in the league at both

Fact: He has been an asset to every team he has ever been on

Fact: you say he is a cancer.

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 09:51 PM
^lmao Knicksfan, your sad bro..... I have watched you post this at least 4 times..... It's your go to... I really hope you didn't save that for future posting.

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 09:57 PM
Your hate for amare is borderline obsessive. It's pathetic really, cause if you were any kind of fan , then 90 percent of your posts wouldnt be bashing amare, even during a good game.

It's all you do.

I name ( stoic sentry) comes to mind..... No one likes a troll.


No it isn't, my love for the Knicks is obsessive and I believe Amare serverly hurts the Knicks and our chances of winning a championship in the near future.

Questioning my fan hood these are troll posts, which by the way you've made before.

I don't consider any game where a player plays abhorently awful defense, which almost costs us the game, to be a good game for said player.

It must be nice not to ever actually argue the merits of an argument yash.

In fact the above example I presented in my previous post was in response to you. Here is the way you responded to my logic and fact filled post:


All I can really say us the same thing I said to Ronnie.

I understand he is struggling , but it still remains just your opinion that stat won't get out of this and turn it around

and


Remember

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP-ZsBdiySI



Yes a youtube vid.


Oh and just to give people some background on yourself, you actually argued (I guess baseless and incoherent statements can be consider argument) ca that trading Amare for Dwight would be bad for the Knicks.

NY007
04-23-2012, 09:57 PM
He's done solid jobs here and there, but overall yea he kinda sucks lol. I've seen him have good games like he it did against Dirk earlier in the season, he does better with PF's and Centers that are outside shooters.

That said he does make some sick blocks and has had some very timely and clutch blocks.

NY007
04-23-2012, 10:01 PM
if marvin had another second he wouldve dunked it after amare let him go straight into the paint without any resistance

It's too bad he missed the dunk thanks to the help of Melo getting a hand in there. So your statement is false lol.

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 10:01 PM
Amare wont get better and will likely decline.

This statement is not true beyond a shadow of a doubt, but is highly likely, in fact it is more likely to be right than wrong.

Considering Amare's injury woes (micro-fracture surgery on both knees and recently a back injury) in combination with his age and his play this season it is simply very likely he wont get better and will instead decline (he has already declined so probably continue declining).


.[/QUOTE]

The reason I don't agree with this is because
1) this is the first time in his entire nBA career that he will be working with a coach who can teach him and not just that but hold him accountable also
2) there is no question that amare is the hardest working man in the nba and if anyone can overcome the injuries it's him.... He has already looked amazing since coming back

Again my argument with you is really an opinion thing.
You think he will be a cancer for the next three years, and I don't.

You can try to prove it, but you won't until three years from now. Lol

Your hate for him won't even let you just watch a game tho. It's like you just watch him, waiting to post about him.

NY007
04-23-2012, 10:04 PM
^lmao Knicksfan, your sad bro..... I have watched you post this at least 4 times..... It's your go to... I really hope you didn't save that for future posting.

This is true

NY007
04-23-2012, 10:07 PM
It's very simple, Amare is good on defense against outside shooters and when guys try to post him up.

Where he gets beat is switches and off the dribble.

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 10:09 PM
It must be nice not to ever actually argue the merits of an argument yash.

In fact the above example I presented in my previous post was in response to you. Here is the way you responded to my logic and fact filled post:



I understand he is struggling , but it still remains just your opinion that stat won't get out of this and turn it around


First off I think we are both guilty of some ******** posting.... I recall something about a kielbasa ......

Anyway what's wrong with what I said above?
I agree with you that amare has struggled and his defense is utterly inexcusable.

But I just feel like him being away from dantoni finally will be the time he will improve defensively .

And Indont feel, like you do, that he will be a cancer to us.

There is no question that we need his scoring, cause without it, melo has to play out of his shoes for us to win.
He has struggled this year on offense, but he started breaking out of it before his injury and played well last game .

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 10:20 PM
The reason I don't agree with this is because
1) this is the first time in his entire nBA career that he will be working with a coach who can teach him and not just that but hold him accountable also
2) there is no question that amare is the hardest working man in the nba and if anyone can overcome the injuries it's him.... He has already looked amazing since coming back



How do you explain Marion, Bell, Daiw, Jared Jeffries and all the other players that have exceled under Dantoni and are good defenders?

He's worked with the best defensive minds in basketball: every defensive coordinator/coach on any team he's been on. Looking at Amare's game there's nothing to be corrected with tips and tricks. You could for instance teach Shumpert how to get over screens better or train Landry not to fall for fakes, but you can't teach a guy with a defensive basketball IQ of 0 and an effort level of I don't give a **** how to do everything defensively. He lacks the brains and the heart to be an even supbar defender let alone a good one; his injuries I believe have made him an even worse defender.

As for him being the hardest working man in basketball, well that's ******** he's one of the laziest. He's not lazy in terms of physically working out but in terms of improving his skills he's easily one of the laziest players. This season he actually manufactured the excuse that the reason h played so poorly is that he didn't play organized basketball during the offseason. So according to him one of the reasons he played poorly is because of something he chose not to do. Many NBA players train on their own during the offseason (well perhaps with other players but not with their team) and participate in things like summer leagues (not official nba leagues but are filled with nba players). And you would think that in 9 seasons Amare could have hired somebody to work with him on defense during the offseason.



Again my argument with you is really an opinion thing.
You think he will be a cancer for the next three years, and I don't.

You can try to prove it, but you won't until three years from now. Lol

Your hate for him won't even let you just watch a game tho. It's like you just watch him, waiting to post about him.


Of course it's an opinion, basically any debate is a debate between two opinions. My opinion just happens to be founded in factual evidence and logic. You see when one typically debates another, one uses things like facts and statistics and logic to support his opinion.

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 10:32 PM
First off I think we are both guilty of some ******** posting.... I recall something about a kielbasa ......

Difference between joke posts and argument posts.



Anyway what's wrong with what I said above?
I agree with you that amare has struggled and his defense is utterly inexcusable.

But I just feel like him being away from dantoni finally will be the time he will improve defensively .

And Indont feel, like you do, that he will be a cancer to us.

There is no question that we need his scoring, cause without it, melo has to play out of his shoes for us to win.
He has struggled this year on offense, but he started breaking out of it before his injury and played well last game .


Nothing really wrong with what you posted if it wasn't for your posts in this thread. That post shows that when I confronted you with a well supported argument you had nothing to say but essentially the fact that you just have faith Amare will do better, but that you can't really support any of your opinions.

Then in this thread you refuse to debate anything I said and insist on attacking me, because that's really the only thing you can do. Again its nice to attack me and try to change the subject when you know if we actually debate the merits you'll likely be wrong.

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 10:35 PM
The reason I don't agree with this is because
1) this is the first time in his entire nBA career that he will be working with a coach who can teach him and not just that but hold him accountable also
2) there is no question that amare is the hardest working man in the nba and if anyone can overcome the injuries it's him.... He has already looked amazing since coming back



How do you explain Marion, Bell, Daiw, Jared Jeffries and all the other players that have exceled under Dantoni and are good defenders?

He's worked with the best defensive minds in basketball: every defensive coordinator/coach on any team he's been on. Looking at Amare's game there's nothing to be corrected with tips and tricks. You could for instance teach Shumpert how to get over screens better or train Landry not to fall for fakes, but you can't teach a guy with a defensive basketball IQ of 0 and an effort level of I don't give a **** how to do everything defensively. He lacks the brains and the heart to be an even supbar defender let alone a good one; his injuries I believe have made him an even worse defender.

As for him being the hardest working man in basketball, well that's ******** he's one of the laziest. He's not lazy in terms of physically working out but in terms of improving his skills he's easily one of the laziest players. This season he actually manufactured the excuse that the reason h played so poorly is that he didn't play organized basketball during the offseason. So according to him one of the reasons he played poorly is because of something he chose not to do. Many NBA players train on their own during the offseason (well perhaps with other players but not with their team) and participate in things like summer leagues (not official nba leagues but are filled with nba players). And you would think that in 9 seasons Amare could have hired somebody to work with him on defense during the offseason.



Again my argument with you is really an opinion thing.
You think he will be a cancer for the next three years, and I don't.

You can try to prove it, but you won't until three years from now. Lol

Your hate for him won't even let you just watch a game tho. It's like you just watch him, waiting to post about him.


Of course it's an opinion, basically any debate is a debate between two opinions. My opinion just happens to be founded in factual evidence and logic. You see when one typically debates another, one uses things like facts and statistics and logic to support his opinion.

He didn't play organized basketball because he was rehabbing... Hence all the damn muscle he put on which slowed him down earlier this year....

Yeah you have facts alright...

Amare is a cancer
Amare is stupid
Amare is lazy
Amare doesnt practice his skills

FACTS right there boy.
Good job.

That's the equivalent of me saying
Amate has nice hair
Amare is the best
Amare is great with kids

BOOM
served son.

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 10:40 PM
First off I think we are both guilty of some ******** posting.... I recall something about a kielbasa ......

Difference between joke posts and argument posts.



Anyway what's wrong with what I said above?
I agree with you that amare has struggled and his defense is utterly inexcusable.

But I just feel like him being away from dantoni finally will be the time he will improve defensively .

And Indont feel, like you do, that he will be a cancer to us.

There is no question that we need his scoring, cause without it, melo has to play out of his shoes for us to win.
He has struggled this year on offense, but he started breaking out of it before his injury and played well last game .


Nothing really wrong with what you posted if it wasn't for your posts in this thread. That post shows that when I confronted you with a well supported argument you had nothing to say but essentially the fact that you just have faith Amare will do better, but that you can't really support any of your opinions.

Then in this thread you refuse to debate anything I said and insist on attacking me, because that's really the only thing you can do. Again its nice to attack me and try to change the subject when you know if we actually debate the merits you'll likely be wrong.

Knicks fan.... What argument is well thought out that you have? You constantly say that but I don't see it.

You have one post with rebounding numbers that you ****in copy and paste into evey ****ing thread you enter like it was written by god himself

Everything else you say is basically just your opinion, that you claim is based in logic, yet no one sees your "logic" but you....

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 10:41 PM
He didn't play organized basketball because he was rehabbing... Hence all the damn muscle he put on which slowed him down earlier this year....

Yeah you have facts alright...

Amare is a cancer
Amare is stupid
Amare is lazy
Amare doesnt practice his skills

FACTS right there boy.
Good job.

That's the equivalent of me saying
Amate has nice hair
Amare is the best
Amare is great with kids

BOOM
served son.


Actually these are the facts in case you didn't read my post:


FACTS NOT UNDER DISPUTE BY ANYBODY:

Amare is an abysmal defender.


FACTS UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN WITH STATISTICS:

Amare is a bad rebounder.

Amare is 20th in TRR (Total Rebounding Rate) amongst power forwards who have played at least 20 mpg in at least 20 games this season. If we added centers to the mix in rebounding Amare would be 47th in TRR.


FACTS POSSIBLY UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN WITH STATISTICS:

Amare has played like **** offensively this year.

Amare is (among power forwards who have played at least 20 mpg in at least 20 games this season):

23rd in PER, 21st in APER, 24th in WS, 21st in AWS, 27th in TS%, 33rd in eFG%.


FACTS POSSIBLY UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN THROUGH LOGIC:

Amare is lazy.

Defense consists of three components: athleticism, intelligence, and effort. If you are bad defensively you are weak in one or more of these components.

Somehow I don't believe athleticism is the component Amare is weak in. That leaves effort and intelligence. Amare's defense woes are likely a combination of stupidity and lack of effort. From what I've seen it is obviously more laziness than stupidity.



Amare wont get better and will likely decline.

This statement is not true beyond a shadow of a doubt, but is highly likely, in fact it is more likely to be right than wrong.

Considering Amare's injury woes (micro-fracture surgery on both knees and recently a back injury) in combination with his age and his play this season it is simply very likely he wont get better and will instead decline (he has already declined so probably continue declining).

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 10:47 PM
Lmao, there it is again......
Have you not seen this season.... He was out for at least a third of it

He is coming back from a back injury

This shortends season has been hell for healthy guys, let alone a guy who has been nursing a bad back.

Plus he lost his brother and came back like he was in a ****ing twilight zone.

His numbers are down this year but I think a lot of people will agree that a fair assessment can't really be given... Especially in his case..

Oh and not too mention that chandler came in, and completely took over stats spot... So in essence, stat has to change his entire game to fit in.

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 10:52 PM
There is a lot more at work in this ******** shortened season then just his numbers falling.....

Besides, not even joking, you pretty much admitted in an earlier post that your a hater, so your judgment is definitely a little cloudy.

Even in a 22/12 game, second game off of a buldginf disk injury , and you can't even give him credit for that......
But you love to make excuses for guys like Landry ......
That's called subjective thought ...

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 11:00 PM
He didn't play organized basketball because he was rehabbing... Hence all the damn muscle he put on which slowed him down earlier this year....

Yeah you have facts alright...

Amare is a cancer
Amare is stupid
Amare is lazy
Amare doesnt practice his skills

FACTS right there boy.
Good job.

That's the equivalent of me saying
Amate has nice hair
Amare is the best
Amare is great with kids

BOOM
served son.


Actually these are the facts in case you didn't read my post:


FACTS NOT UNDER DISPUTE BY ANYBODY:

Amare is an abysmal defender.


You have already conceded to this point
:I agree with you that his d is bad



FACTS UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN WITH STATISTICS:

Amare is a bad rebounder.

Amare is 20th in TRR (Total Rebounding Rate) amongst power forwards who have played at least 20 mpg in at least 20 games this season. If we added centers to the mix in rebounding Amare would be 47th in TRR.


The stats don't lie, though these are a bit outdated, Amare is now 19th in TRR.


FACTS POSSIBLY UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN WITH STATISTICS:

Amare has played like **** offensively this year.

Amare is (among power forwards who have played at least 20 mpg in at least 30 games this season):

19th in PER, 19th in APER, 18th in WS, 18th in AWS, 21st in TS%, 27th in eFG%.

Are you saying this isn't true? Changed numbers to reflect current numbers.



FACTS POSSIBLY UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN THROUGH LOGIC:

Amare is lazy.

Defense consists of three components: athleticism, intelligence, and effort. If you are bad defensively you are weak in one or more of these components.

Somehow I don't believe athleticism is the component Amare is weak in. That leaves effort and intelligence. Amare's defense woes are likely a combination of stupidity and lack of effort. From what I've seen it is obviously more laziness than stupidity.

Please provide an alternate explanation fo why Amare is such an awful defender. If he gives great effort on that end (isn't lazy) and is an intelligent defender, then why is his defense so terrible.


Amare wont get better and will likely decline.

This statement is not true beyond a shadow of a doubt, but is highly likely, in fact it is more likely to be right than wrong.

Considering Amare's injury woes (micro-fracture surgery on both knees and recently a back injury) in combination with his age and his play this season it is simply very likely he wont get better and will instead decline (he has already declined so probably continue declining).


Hmmmmm a plethora of serious injuries in conjunction with age don't have a significant effect on a players play???? These two factors don't result in the decline of a players game????

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 11:06 PM
You really wanna be right ... Lmao.

YashBoone
04-23-2012, 11:08 PM
Why do you talk in your posts like your talking to someone else and not me????

knicksfan42
04-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Why do you talk in your posts like your talking to someone else and not me????

I wrote "Yash has" instead of "you have" my bad I guess.

ewing
04-24-2012, 08:30 AM
He didn't play organized basketball because he was rehabbing... Hence all the damn muscle he put on which slowed him down earlier this year....

Yeah you have facts alright...

Amare is a cancer
Amare is stupid
Amare is lazy
Amare doesnt practice his skills

FACTS right there boy.
Good job.

That's the equivalent of me saying
Amate has nice hair
Amare is the best
Amare is great with kids

BOOM
served son.


This is a great post

knicksfan42
04-24-2012, 08:33 AM
This is a great post

No no no you see this is a great post:

Actually these are the facts in case you didn't read my post:


FACTS NOT UNDER DISPUTE BY ANYBODY:

Amare is an abysmal defender.


You have already conceded to this point
:I agree with you that his d is bad



FACTS UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN WITH STATISTICS:

Amare is a bad rebounder.

Amare is 20th in TRR (Total Rebounding Rate) amongst power forwards who have played at least 20 mpg in at least 20 games this season. If we added centers to the mix in rebounding Amare would be 47th in TRR.


The stats don't lie, though these are a bit outdated, Amare is now 19th in TRR.


FACTS POSSIBLY UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN WITH STATISTICS:

Amare has played like **** offensively this year.

Amare is (among power forwards who have played at least 20 mpg in at least 30 games this season):

19th in PER, 19th in APER, 18th in WS, 18th in AWS, 21st in TS%, 27th in eFG%.

Are you saying this isn't true? Changed numbers to reflect current numbers.



FACTS POSSIBLY UNDER DISPUTE PROVEN THROUGH LOGIC:

Amare is lazy.

Defense consists of three components: athleticism, intelligence, and effort. If you are bad defensively you are weak in one or more of these components.

Somehow I don't believe athleticism is the component Amare is weak in. That leaves effort and intelligence. Amare's defense woes are likely a combination of stupidity and lack of effort. From what I've seen it is obviously more laziness than stupidity.

Please provide an alternate explanation fo why Amare is such an awful defender. If he gives great effort on that end (isn't lazy) and is an intelligent defender, then why is his defense so terrible.


Amare wont get better and will likely decline.

This statement is not true beyond a shadow of a doubt, but is highly likely, in fact it is more likely to be right than wrong.

Considering Amare's injury woes (micro-fracture surgery on both knees and recently a back injury) in combination with his age and his play this season it is simply very likely he wont get better and will instead decline (he has already declined so probably continue declining).


Hmmmmm a plethora of serious injuries in conjunction with age don't have a significant effect on a players play???? These two factors don't result in the decline of a players game????

aztr0
04-24-2012, 09:52 AM
Yes, he's horrible. Getting sick of seeing him playing no D. Melo at least tries now.