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bomber0104
04-19-2012, 11:18 PM
I was gone and couldn't post this in the game thread but I had to stop by to bash Farrell one more time after another pathetic game managing the ballclub

Someone explain to me.. why the was Frasor left in to pitch to Pena and Scott? does he not understand the whole lefty-lefty matchup thing or does he not have any faith in our team scoring 3 runs? I mean you people bash me for quitting when we are down 3 runs yet it is okay for our manager to give up 2 games in a row.

Don't tell me he is the same as Maddon. Maddon brought in 2 different lefties in 1 inning when the lefties in our lineup came up and he got out of the inning with no runs allowed.. yet this idiot sticks with the righty to face guys that hammer righties in Pena and Scott. That is 2 games in a row where a relatively close game turned into a laugher because of his mismanagement.

We dont allow a run there and the 9th inning would have been much more interesting with Lawrie coming up and the tying run on base. I know that making different moves wouldn't gurantee a different outcome but the guy is really not even giving us a chance in these games. Yesterday it was intentionally walking Zobrist when the count was already 3-2 and bringing up their hottest hitter in Pena who eventually ended up walking with the bases loaded to start that shitfest of an inning.

And not to mention having Thames batting 6th and having him come up 3 times with runners in scoring position and having terrible ABs every single time.

This guy is a joke of a manager. That was my belief all through last year and I decided to give him a chance because it was his first year managing. But the guy clearly hasn't learned anything and has perhaps gotten worse with his decisions IMO.

You can't bring in a pitching coach and turn him into a manager overnight. The sooner AA realizes that, the sooner we can get on in our plans to compete.

My first rant thread of the year. Next one will probably feature the genious that is Duane Murphy

Sanyo
04-19-2012, 11:21 PM
lol well I will say one thing and that is Lind at 4th is just bs. I know part of it is pressure from AA and Rogers to stick him in a good spot, but he should naturally be at 5th or 6th. Maybe even 7th. He just doesnt scare anyone at cleanup.

2009mvp
04-19-2012, 11:22 PM
If you're gonna sarcastically call someone a 'genious' you just gotta spell it right.

Krylian
04-19-2012, 11:23 PM
Tell us what you really think.

bomber0104
04-19-2012, 11:23 PM
lol well I will say one thing and that is Lind at 4th is just bs. I know part of it is pressure from AA and Rogers to stick him in a good spot, but he should naturally be at 5th or 6th. Maybe even 7th. He just doesnt scare anyone at cleanup.

Lind hasn't been that bad this year.. thats one of the few things i have no problem with actually although i could see it becoming one if Lind returns to his ****** form and Farrell sticks with him in that spot

craigerlee
04-19-2012, 11:24 PM
If you're gonna sarcastically call someone a 'genious' you just gotta spell it right.

"future Duane Murphy" was pretty epic too.

aman_13
04-19-2012, 11:33 PM
Honestly the Rays just beat us this series. Morrow and Alvarez both didn't have their best stuff or command. We are 6-6 and our team is playing no where near their potential. We should be happy with our record considering the slow starts. Lets take care of the next three series, start a winning a streak, build some confidence and then maybe we will do better against the Rays next time around.

aman_13
04-19-2012, 11:35 PM
The movie Moneyball has taught me to be very patient because we could just end up winning 20 in a row and then lose in the world series lol.

bomber0104
04-19-2012, 11:37 PM
Honestly the Rays just beat us this series. Morrow and Alvarez both didn't have their best stuff or command. We are 6-6 and our team is playing no where near their potential. We should be happy with our record considering the slow starts. Lets take care of the next three series, start a winning a streak, build some confidence and then maybe we will do better against the Rays next time around.

Again.. my issue is not with how the team is playing. its with the mistakes made by farrell. He is not putting the players in the right situations to get the job done

bomber0104
04-19-2012, 11:38 PM
The fact you make this thread every year, when every ****ing person in this forum knows your opinion on John Farrell. We hear it in the game thread every frickin page and now we gotta see it as a thread is just annoying. Overkill much?

Alright.. so explain to me how the moves that Farrell made in this game make any sense

Maybe he is a "genius" and i'm just not seeing it. Someone spell it out for me. Please

bomber0104
04-19-2012, 11:39 PM
Hey let's ********* swear about *******. *****, ******* ******. And another thing! ******* **** *******!!!

Again.. talking about the swearing part and not discussing the issue. Lets see i'll take the swear outs so you guys aren't distracted

aman_13
04-19-2012, 11:44 PM
Again.. my issue is not with how the team is playing. its with the mistakes made by farrell. He is not putting the players in the right situations to get the job done

I don't disagree with you but i think this becomes more evident when the team is losing. Farrell was doing no wrong at least from the media point of view a week ago and now he looks kind of bad because of the results in the last couple series.

bomber0104
04-19-2012, 11:47 PM
I don't disagree with you but i think this becomes more evident when the team is losing. Farrell was doing no wrong at least from the media point of view a week ago and now he looks kind of bad because of the results in the last couple series.

he made a few questionable calls in the games we won and got away with it. I said a few times that Farrell isn't gonna continue to get bailed out and he sure hasn't the last 2 games

craigerlee
04-19-2012, 11:47 PM
Alright.. so explain to me how the moves that Farrell made in this game make any sense

Maybe he is a "genius" and i'm just not seeing it. Someone spell it out for me. Please

Ya he makes mistakes, but you make it sound like he single handedly loses games. Carlos Pena and Luke Scott don't crush righties and Jason Frasor doesn't suck against lefties either like you said. Ya maybe there's a slight advantage going to lefty there, but they got 16 or so games in a row coming up and maybe that little advantage you get isn't worth burning your bullpen for. The team seems to love the guy and firing him 12 games into the season for a few tactical mistakes is just idiotic. Blowing through another lefty leaves you with one lefty left going into tomorrow's game against KC who have Hosmer, Gordon and Moustakas all good lefty bats. Also too you were hammering Farrell yesterday for the infield defence shift, when you do realize that's Butterfield. Seems like you will say anything to go off on a tangent against Farrell.

Toxeryll
04-19-2012, 11:51 PM
im ok with our manager so far except for lind batting clean up and thames being too high

phillipmike
04-19-2012, 11:52 PM
Alright.. so explain to me how the moves that Farrell made in this game make any sense

Maybe he is a "genius" and i'm just not seeing it. Someone spell it out for me. Please

Farrell's 2nd year and the 12th game of the season? Calm down.

He has had a great start as our manager and a few rough games.

Luke Scott:
Scott is a career 1 for 5 against Frasor. Hitting .200
Scott is a career 1 for 5 against Oliver and Perez. Hitting .200
Never faced Crawford.

Carlos Pena:
Pena is a career 3 for 12 against Frasor. Hitting .250
Pena is a career 3 for 9 against Oilver and Perez with 6 RBIs. Hitting .333
Never faced Crawford.
Pena is also 7 for 14 vs LHP in 2012 with 2 HR and 7 RBIs. Hitting .500

It looks like Farrell was playing the odds and rightfully so. Maybe he could have brought in a lefty against Scott but Frasor was just as good as our lefties in the pen vs Scott.

Eric Thames:
Is hitting .429 with an OBP of .444 and a SLG of .500 as the number 6 hitter this season going 3 for 7 with 2 walks, a double and an RBI.
Is a career 1 for 2 vs. Hellickson with a walk and an RBI. So moving him up isnt that bad of an idea.
Where as Rasmus is 0 of 3 vs Hellickson. And Arencibia is 0 for 5. Also Lawrie has never faced him.

So it is Thames who has faced him and gotten on base 2 out of 3 times with an OBP of .444 in the 6th spot in 2012 vs someone who has not played him before.

Thames is a .286 OPS player in the 7th in 2012. So it looks like Farrell made all the logical moves by playing the percentages.

If you have questions it is not that hard to research them before you make a post like this.

aman_13
04-19-2012, 11:56 PM
he made a few questionable calls in the games we won and got away with it. I said a few times that Farrell isn't gonna continue to get bailed out and he sure hasn't the last 2 games

Fair enough, i'm not saying he's a great manager but whenever the team loses, i blame it on the players. Managers can have a big effect on a game time to time but it's the players that win or lose the game.

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 12:06 AM
Ya he makes mistakes, but you make it sound like he single handedly loses games. I didn't say he is the sole reason for those losses but he is certainly not helping the cause.



Carlos Pena and Luke Scott don't crush righties

Scott hitting .100 vs. lefties this year (.471 vs. righties)
Last year he was a .167 vs. lefties
2010 he was .240 vs. lefties
in all these season he hit at least 60 points higher vs. righties

Pena actually hitting better vs. lefties in limited ABs this year
Last year he was .133 vs. lefties compared to .255 vs. righties
2010 he was .179 vs. lefties compared to .204 vs. righties

so yeah these guys are definitely better hitters vs. righty pitching. Its like saying Lind doesn't crush righties. Yes he isn't pujols against righties but its still a welcomed matchup for him over righties




Ya maybe there's a slight advantage going to lefty there, but they got 16 or so games in a row coming up and maybe that little advantage you get isn't worth burning your bullpen for. Blowing through another lefty leaves you with one lefty left going into tomorrow's game against KC who have Hosmer, Gordon and Moustakas all good lefty bats.

You have Oliver completely fresh tomorrow and Perez on one day rest having pitched a total of 0.2 innings the previous 8 days. Its also not unheard of for a lefty like Crawford to come in and get 1 lefty out even if he has pitched on back to back days.

Plus you don't worry about these guys now.. maybe tomorrows game is a blowout and you don't even need any of these guys.

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 12:10 AM
Farrell's 2nd year and the 12th game of the season? Calm down.

He has had a great start as our manager and a few rough games.

Luke Scott:
Scott is a career 1 for 5 against Frasor. Hitting .200
Scott is a career 1 for 5 against Oliver and Perez. Hitting .200
Never faced Crawford.

Carlos Pena:
Pena is a career 3 for 12 against Frasor. Hitting .250
Pena is a career 3 for 9 against Oilver and Perez with 6 RBIs. Hitting .333
Never faced Crawford.
Pena is also 7 for 14 vs LHP in 2012 with 2 HR and 7 RBIs. Hitting .500

It looks like Farrell was playing the odds and rightfully so. Maybe he could have brought in a lefty against Scott but Frasor was just as good as our lefties in the pen vs Scott.

Eric Thames:
Is hitting .429 with an OBP of .444 and a SLG of .500 as the number 6 hitter this season going 3 for 7 with 2 walks, a double and an RBI.
Is a career 1 for 2 vs. Hellickson with a walk and an RBI. So moving him up isnt that bad of idea.
Where as Rasmus is 0 of 3 vs Hellickson. And Arencibia is 0 for 5. Also Lawrie has never faced him.

So it is Thames who has faced him and gotten on base 2 out of 3 times with an OPB of .444 in the 6th spot in 2012 vs someone who has not played him before.

Thames is a .286 OPS player in the 6th in 2012. So it looks like Farrell made all the logical moves by playing the percentages.

If you have questions it is not that hard to research them before you make a post like this.

I'm sorry but ill take the numbers from the several hundereds ABs that Pena and Scott have had against lefties over the previous years over the small sample size they have against the specific pitchers.

As for Thames.. come on. The guy has been horrible all season and just happened to have his 2 good games while batting 6th. It doesn't mean that batting him 6th will produce the same results. 6th and 7th in this situation are identical. Its not like he has bautista batting behind him

nithanyo
04-20-2012, 12:11 AM
Tosca, Fregosi, Buck, Gibbons, Cito and now Farell. Maybe Toronto fans should look at the on field product before firing every manager they see. Maybe its the fact that our catcher can't make a play, our rotation has a lot of question marks and our bullpen can't keep a close game or our offence is a roller coaster.

maybe just maybe, if the manager was given a better team to work with we would be a winning more

aman_13
04-20-2012, 12:13 AM
Yeah our bullpen has been an early concern but again its early.

phillipmike
04-20-2012, 12:18 AM
I'm sorry but ill take the numbers from the several hundereds ABs that Pena and Scott have had against lefties over the previous years over the small sample size they have against the specific pitchers.

As for Thames.. come on. The guy has been horrible all season and just happened to have his 2 good games while batting 6th. It doesn't mean that batting him 6th will produce the same results. 6th and 7th in this situation are identical. Its not like he has bautista batting behind him

You asked for someone to make sense of Farrells moves. I have brought up recent stats in 2012 and Pena's and Scott's career vs. Frasor and the alternatives in Oliver, Perez and Crawford. Frasor matches up against those guys better then the lefties you thought we should have brought in.

Same with Thames. He had better recent stats in the 6th spot and against Hellickson than Lawrie, Arencibia or Rasmus.

I gave you legit proof to asnwer your questions. Now you are refuting my irrefutable proof because it does not fit your your illogical rant against Farrell.

You would rather go with LHP vs a player than the actual player like Oliver, Crawford or Perez.

By your logic you rather go with the statistic of a left handed pitcher vs the actually pitcher's stats against that batter. That is insane!

If you cant see the stats and logic after it is in front of you and choosing to stick with your illogical argument then i cant help you and there is no point for me to continue wasting my time on you.

2009mvp
04-20-2012, 12:21 AM
Irrefutable proof? You're talking about a handful of at bats at most. I don't even think it's an argument that Scott and especially Pena are drastically better hitters against RHP than they are against southpaws. I get why it's hard to take bomber seriously what with all the overreacting/cursing but he certainly has a point here.

statquo
04-20-2012, 12:25 AM
Tosca, Fregosi, Buck, Gibbons, Cito and now Farell. Maybe Toronto fans should look at the on field product before firing every manager they see. Maybe its the fact that our catcher can't make a play, our rotation has a lot of question marks and our bullpen can't keep a close game or our offence is a roller coaster.

maybe just maybe, if the manager was given a better team to work with we would be a winning more

lol... thhhis... its always the coaches fault when the players dont get the job done.

statquo
04-20-2012, 12:27 AM
And coach bomber how is he a joke, we had a terribly mediocore team last year that no coach would coach into the playoffs and after nine games he's already a joke?

sleeeep it off.

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 12:28 AM
You asked for someone to make sense of Farrells moves. I have brought up recent stats in 2012 and Pena's and Scott's career vs. Frasor and the alternatives in Oliver, Perez and Crawford. Frasor matches up against those guys better then the lefties you thought we should have brought in.

Same with Thames. He had better recent stats in the 6th spot and against Hellickson than Lawrie, Arencibia or Rasmus.

I gave you legit proof to asnwer your questions. Now you are refuting my irrefutable proof because it does not fit your your illogical rant against Farrell.

You would rather go with LHP vs a player than the actual player like Oliver, Crawford or Perez.

By your logic you rather go with the statistic of a left handed pitcher vs the actually pitcher's stats against that batter. That is insane!

If you cant see the stats and logic after it is in front of you and choosing to stick with your illogical argument then i cant help you and there is no point for me to continue wasting my time on you.

9 ABs is nothing.. Put Snider against Price for 9 ABs and he might get lucky and get 3 hits. Then he could easily got 0-10 the next 10 ABs he takes. 9 ABs is not enough sample size especially compared the several hundred ABs of data we have of Pena vs. lefties in general.

This obviously doesn't factor in that Frasor has already thrown a bunch of pitches at this point coming in the previous inning.

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 12:31 AM
And the previous game. Morrow is clearly lost and getting hammered all over the field and Farrell refuses to take him out despite a relatively fresh bullpen. Morrow comes out for the 6th inning and gives up 2 HRs just like that turning a 2 run game into a 4 run game.

Sometimes your pitchers don't have it. You cant continue to force the issue and keep on throwing them out there to get hammered by the opposition. You have a bullpen with 2 guys capable of going for multiple innings. Bring them in and try your chances. Ofcourse Perez follows Morrow and goes 2 perfect innings but it was already too late at that point as the game was out of reach

craigerlee
04-20-2012, 12:52 AM
I didn't say he is the sole reason for those losses but he is certainly not helping the cause.




Scott hitting .100 vs. lefties this year (.471 vs. righties)
Last year he was a .167 vs. lefties
2010 he was .240 vs. lefties
in all these season he hit at least 60 points higher vs. righties

Pena actually hitting better vs. lefties in limited ABs this year
Last year he was .133 vs. lefties compared to .255 vs. righties
2010 he was .179 vs. lefties compared to .204 vs. righties

so yeah these guys are definitely better hitters vs. righty pitching. Its like saying Lind doesn't crush righties. Yes he isn't pujols against righties but its still a welcomed matchup for him over righties





You have Oliver completely fresh tomorrow and Perez on one day rest having pitched a total of 0.2 innings the previous 8 days. Its also not unheard of for a lefty like Crawford to come in and get 1 lefty out even if he has pitched on back to back days.

Plus you don't worry about these guys now.. maybe tomorrows game is a blowout and you don't even need any of these guys.


I'm sorry but ill take the numbers from the several hundereds ABs that Pena and Scott have had against lefties over the previous years over the small sample size they have against the specific pitchers.

As for Thames.. come on. The guy has been horrible all season and just happened to have his 2 good games while batting 6th. It doesn't mean that batting him 6th will produce the same results. 6th and 7th in this situation are identical. Its not like he has bautista batting behind him

Contradiction much? You quote their numbers vs. lefties from this season when neither guy has had more than 14 AB's against LH yet you pan another poster for bringing up a 9 AB sample sizes. Neither guy has near the platoon split Lind has, so there's no comparison there, yes there better against righties but neither of them kill righties like you suggested.

Crawford's gone he's sent down cause of Hutchison which Farrell likely knew. So basically they would of been left with Perez only for tomorrow's game as you can't expect a 41 year old like Oliver to be effective on back to backs had they brought him in today as the only available lefty in the pen.

Its like every time a player fails its clearly Farrell's fault. Can a player not just fail cause he failed. Frasor isn't Octavio Dotel, he's not here to only get righties out, there's an expectation he can lefties out too.

JermanJaysFan
04-20-2012, 12:59 AM
And the previous game. Morrow is clearly lost and getting hammered all over the field and Farrell refuses to take him out despite a relatively fresh bullpen. Morrow comes out for the 6th inning and gives up 2 HRs just like that turning a 2 run game into a 4 run game.

Sometimes your pitchers don't have it. You cant continue to force the issue and keep on throwing them out there to get hammered by the opposition. You have a bullpen with 2 guys capable of going for multiple innings. Bring them in and try your chances. Ofcourse Perez follows Morrow and goes 2 perfect innings but it was already too late at that point as the game was out of reach
I mostly agree with your points about BP usage, although I am not so vehement about the implications it has about Farrell as a manager and his future employment here.

But I think this here is a bit too much of a grey area to really criticize him on. Morrow had just had an efficient 5th, and Farrell might have had decent reason to believe either through observations or talking with Morrow that he was settling in a bit. 4 of the next 5 batters coming up for the Rays were righties. Sometimes you go with your gut and you get burned.

craigerlee
04-20-2012, 01:05 AM
Answer me this: Is John Farrell any worse than Bruce Bochy, Ron Washington, TLR, or Dusty Baker when it comes to managing? I'd say no, yet all those managers have made the playoffs and won world series in the last 2 years. You need to quite blaming Farrell for every loss, the manager has a minimal impact on the games and the players are the ones who need to come through.

2009mvp
04-20-2012, 01:10 AM
Contradiction much? You quote their numbers vs. lefties from this season when neither guy has had more than 14 AB's against LH yet you pan another poster for bringing up a 9 AB sample sizes. Neither guy has near the platoon split Lind has, so there's no comparison there, yes there better against righties but neither of them kill righties like you suggested.

Pena's got something like a .370 OBP against RHP and I'd be shocked if he's slugged less than .500 against them in his career. I'd call that killing righties.


Crawford's gone he's sent down cause of Hutchison which Farrell likely knew.

He was sent down after the game, there should have been absolutely no reason for him not to have been on the roster and available for tonight's game. Not that I would have used him there, but the point remains.


So basically they would of been left with Perez only for tomorrow's game as you can't expect a 41 year old like Oliver to be effective on back to backs had they brought him in today as the only available lefty in the pen.

After facing two batters? I damn sure would expect him to be able to handle that.


Its like every time a player fails its clearly Farrell's fault. Can a player not just fail cause he failed. Frasor isn't Octavio Dotel, he's not here to only get righties out, there's an expectation he can lefties out too.

Agreed for the most part.

adid727
04-20-2012, 02:06 AM
You asked for someone to make sense of Farrells moves. I have brought up recent stats in 2012 and Pena's and Scott's career vs. Frasor and the alternatives in Oliver, Perez and Crawford. Frasor matches up against those guys better then the lefties you thought we should have brought in.

Same with Thames. He had better recent stats in the 6th spot and against Hellickson than Lawrie, Arencibia or Rasmus.

I gave you legit proof to asnwer your questions. Now you are refuting my irrefutable proof because it does not fit your your illogical rant against Farrell.

You would rather go with LHP vs a player than the actual player like Oliver, Crawford or Perez.

By your logic you rather go with the statistic of a left handed pitcher vs the actually pitcher's stats against that batter. That is insane!

If you cant see the stats and logic after it is in front of you and choosing to stick with your illogical argument then i cant help you and there is no point for me to continue wasting my time on you.

i actually agree with bomber, i would take the yearly stats over the four or five at bats you presented. Farrell does not know how to manage a bullpen. He is in the process of learning and hopefully he learns that he should worry about winning today's game first, instead of saving his pitchers for tomorrow where he might not even need them.

adid727
04-20-2012, 02:07 AM
im ok with our manager so far except for lind batting clean up and thames being too high

Buck Blunder :clap:

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 02:26 AM
Contradiction much? You quote their numbers vs. lefties from this season when neither guy has had more than 14 AB's against LH yet you pan another poster for bringing up a 9 AB sample sizes. Neither guy has near the platoon split Lind has, so there's no comparison there, yes there better against righties but neither of them kill righties like you suggested.

I never said the 10 ABs this year are a great indicator.. that is why i mentioned the numbers from the previous 2 years. And yeah Scott and especially pena are significantly better vs. righties


Crawford's gone he's sent down cause of Hutchison which Farrell likely knew. So basically they would of been left with Perez only for tomorrow's game as you can't expect a 41 year old like Oliver to be effective on back to backs had they brought him in today as the only available lefty in the pen.

LOL.. we are gonna be screwed if Oliver can't pitch on back to back days.

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 02:29 AM
Answer me this: Is John Farrell any worse than Bruce Bochy, Ron Washington, TLR, or Dusty Baker when it comes to managing? I'd say no, yet all those managers have made the playoffs and won world series in the last 2 years. You need to quite blaming Farrell for every loss, the manager has a minimal impact on the games and the players are the ones who need to come through.

Obviously some of the blame goes to the players but as a manager, you are paid to put your players in the best situation for them to succeed and i think Farrell has failed to do that on more than one occasion this year

craigerlee
04-20-2012, 06:08 AM
Pena's got something like a .370 OBP against RHP and I'd be shocked if he's slugged less than .500 against them in his career. I'd call that killing righties.



He was sent down after the game, there should have been absolutely no reason for him not to have been on the roster and available for tonight's game. Not that I would have used him there, but the point remains.



After facing two batters? I damn sure would expect him to be able to handle that.



Agreed for the most part.

Crawford pitched in the 7th, they blew the game open in the 9th.

craigerlee
04-20-2012, 06:32 AM
LOL.. we are gonna be screwed if Oliver can't pitch on back to back days.



After facing two batters? I damn sure would expect him to be able to handle that.


He wasn't all that effective last year on back to backs, I don't think its a stretch to think you want to avoid using a 41 year old 2 days in a row this early in the season.

2011

0 days rest: era 3.60, WHIP 2.00, K/BB 2.00
1 days rest: era 0.73, WHIP 0.65, K/BB 3.67

Valleyfella
04-20-2012, 07:37 AM
They're 6-6 and no one on the team, other than Drabek and Encarnacion, has gotten off to a great start. They've got a few others who are doing okay but almost everyone else is under achieving and some, badly. There's no reason to believe they won't start putting it together. Give it 40 games before getting the vapors and swooning like a southern belle.

Ragin' Cajun
04-20-2012, 08:20 AM
It's far too early to be bashing anyone IMO. But 2 things for me is that Alvarez should not be in the game when we are down 6-3 in the 7th inning, and I really don't think Thames should be in the starting lineup. I would much rather have Rajai or Francisco in there.

Valleyfella
04-20-2012, 09:56 AM
It's far too early to be bashing anyone IMO. But 2 things for me is that Alvarez should not be in the game when we are down 6-3 in the 7th inning, and I really don't think Thames should be in the starting lineup. I would much rather have Rajai or Francisco in there.

I'm starting to agree about Thames and I supported him over Snider. He's not good defensively and so needs to be that much better offensively to make playing him worthwhile. If he was having good at bats and just hitting into bad luck, that would be one thing, but he looks lost at the plate and has hit nothing hard. I'd give him another 10 games or so, but if there isn't an improvement, I'd call Snider up and send Thames down.

Sanyo
04-20-2012, 09:58 AM
lolllllllll i love how the hash tags for this post is "farrell sucks", "gym", and "i'm out' hahaha

Jays#1
04-20-2012, 12:18 PM
I have just one question, if you are so much better at managing this team than Farrell, why is Farrell the manager and not you? He probably just liked the matchup of Frasor vs. Pena over Oliver vs. Longoria. That would be my logic, and then by the time Scott came up the game was already out of hand so why burn your lefty in that situation.

2009mvp
04-20-2012, 12:42 PM
Crawford pitched in the 7th, they blew the game open in the 9th.

Whoops, missed that. Now your original point makes more sense.


He wasn't all that effective last year on back to backs, I don't think its a stretch to think you want to avoid using a 41 year old 2 days in a row this early in the season.

2011

0 days rest: era 3.60, WHIP 2.00, K/BB 2.00
1 days rest: era 0.73, WHIP 0.65, K/BB 3.67

Sure, but there's sooo much noise in there including a crazy high BABIP on back to backs. Those numbers are much closer when you look at his entire career. Still slightly worse than on 1 or more days rest (as you'd probably expect), but nothing to where I'd hesitate to use him against a tough lefty or two on back to back nights.


I have just one question, if you are so much better at managing this team than Farrell, why is Farrell the manager and not you?

:laugh2:


He probably just liked the matchup of Frasor vs. Pena over Oliver vs. Longoria. That would be my logic, and then by the time Scott came up the game was already out of hand so why burn your lefty in that situation.

Which is fine. Weird that you jump on my VM page calling me out when not once in this entire thread have I said I had a huge issue with how Farrell managed the game last night. I definitely see why going to a lefty against Pena and/or Scott would have made sense there but I also don't really have a problem with leaving Frasor in there.

Jays#1
04-20-2012, 12:49 PM
^^ Sorry, I didn't mean to post that on the VM page, it was meant for here, I apologize for that. My Bad.

adid727
04-20-2012, 02:18 PM
Thames should bat 8th. JPA should bat 9th. rasmus should bat 6th.

craigerlee
04-20-2012, 03:02 PM
Thames should bat 8th. JPA should bat 9th. rasmus should bat 6th.

If they're gonna continue to sub Rajai in for Thames in close games and Thames isn't gonna be much better than Rasmus. Then ya they definitely should flip them cause its been really annoying that in all these close games we've played, Rajai has been coming up in the heart of the lineup.

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 03:04 PM
I have just one question, if you are so much better at managing this team than Farrell, why is Farrell the manager and not you? He probably just liked the matchup of Frasor vs. Pena over Oliver vs. Longoria. That would be my logic, and then by the time Scott came up the game was already out of hand so why burn your lefty in that situation.

thats the stupidest argument you can come up with. That is like saying if Bush is so dumb, why was he president and i wasn't

as for the matchup. Its pretty damn easy. You bring Oliver to get pena. If he does you walk Longoria with 1st base open and let him pitch to scott. But I dont expect Farrell to be able to comprehend that.. he only uses his intentional walks in 3-2 counts and when the team's hottest hitter is on deck

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 03:08 PM
If they're gonna continue to sub Rajai in for Thames in close games and Thames isn't gonna be much better than Rasmus. Then ya they definitely should flip them cause its been really annoying that in all these close games we've played, Rajai has been coming up in the heart of the lineup.

Thats another thing i've had a big issue with.. twice in the orioles series Farrell subs THames out too early for defensive purposes only to have the other team take the lead and have Davis come up to swing the bat hopelessly against a righty in Johnson in a close game in the 9th.. If you really hate Thames defense that much and considering he can't hit anything but a fastball, why is he on the team over Snider. It just baffles my mind

craigerlee
04-20-2012, 03:11 PM
Thats another thing i've had a big issue with.. twice in the orioles series Farrell subs THames out too early for defensive purposes only to have the other team take the lead and have Davis come up to swing the bat hopelessly against a righty in Johnson in a close game in the 9th.. If you really hate Thames defense that much and considering he can't hit anything but a fastball, why is he on the team over Snider. It just baffles my mind

Not sure if this is another fire Farrell implication, but we don't know if thats Farrell's or AA's decision to have Thames over Snider. I honestly think it's AA that wants Thames up cause all spring training, him not Farrell kept saying that its Eric's job to lose and that Snider needs to be really special. Also too the fact Farrell keeps subbing Thames out so early almost seems like he's sending a subtle message that this guy just isn't a good defensive LF. However Farrell needs to smarten up and flip Thames and Rasmus if this is gonna be a common occurrence.

2009mvp
04-20-2012, 03:16 PM
I think Thames has done a good enough job himself sending the message that he just isn't very good defensively.

adid727
04-20-2012, 03:24 PM
I think Thames has done a good enough job himself sending the message that he just isn't very good defensively.

Yeah, i hold my breath every time a fly ball is hit to left field. It seems that he always misreads the ball and breaks the wrong way. I think we should have had snider in left, since he at least is average to slightly above average defensively in left.

Twitchy
04-20-2012, 03:29 PM
It's worth pointing out that Frasor has been equally effective against RH/LH hitters over his career. 621 OPS against vs LH hitters and 588 vs RH hitters.

Perez or Crawford aren't terrible options vs LH hitters and probably would have been the better call in those spots. But I mean it's not the end of the world if Frasor is used in those spots. He just shouldn't have been tossing 40+ pitches in a game.

I'd complain more about how high Thames bats and how low Rasmus does before I complain about the bullpen usage.

Jays#1
04-20-2012, 03:46 PM
thats the stupidest argument you can come up with. That is like saying if Bush is so dumb, why was he president and i wasn't

as for the matchup. Its pretty damn easy. You bring Oliver to get pena. If he does you walk Longoria with 1st base open and let him pitch to scott. But I dont expect Farrell to be able to comprehend that.. he only uses his intentional walks in 3-2 counts and when the team's hottest hitter is on deck

What if Oliver doesn't get Pena, do you really trust him facing Longoria with the bases loaded? I would rather take my chances with Frasor getting Pena out, at least he is still in there then to face Longoria. Your logic is suggesting that Oliver is going to get Pena out which is obviuosly not a given, but as a manager it is always best to look at things from the worst case scenario and try to minimize the damge, that is what I think Farrell was doing in this case, Frasor just didn't execute simple as that.

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 03:51 PM
Not sure if this is another fire Farrell implication, but we don't know if thats Farrell's or AA's decision to have Thames over Snider. I honestly think it's AA that wants Thames up cause all spring training, him not Farrell kept saying that its Eric's job to lose and that Snider needs to be really special. Also too the fact Farrell keeps subbing Thames out so early almost seems like he's sending a subtle message that this guy just isn't a good defensive LF. However Farrell needs to smarten up and flip Thames and Rasmus if this is gonna be a common occurrence.

I would think that Farrell is on board with having Thames here considering Thames played the majority of the year ofr him last year.. he doesn't have much of a history with Travis

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 03:56 PM
[/B][/B]

What if Oliver doesn't get Pena, do you really trust him facing Longoria with the bases loaded? I would rather take my chances with Frasor getting Pena out, at least he is still in there then to face Longoria. Your logic is suggesting that Oliver is going to get Pena out which is obviuosly not a given, but as a manager it is always best to look at things from the worst case scenario and try to minimize the damge, that is what I think Farrell was doing in this case, Frasor just didn't execute simple as that.


There was only 1 guy on base with Pena batting so Longoria couldn't possibly come up with the bases loaded.

Maddon certainly didn't have that thought process when he went to 3 pitchers in the 6th in the biggest situation in the game. He went with McGee who couldn't get Johnson out so he brought the righty to face bautista and finally the lefty to face Lind. 1 of his 3 matchups worked and thats all he needed..

It wouldn't have been a big issue if Farrell went to Oliver to face Pena then brought in Janssen to hopefully get Longo and finish off the inning. He had 8 guys in the pen for a reason. I just feel like he undermanages his pen way too much

Jays#1
04-20-2012, 04:05 PM
There was only 1 guy on base with Pena batting so Longoria couldn't possibly come up with the bases loaded.

Maddon certainly didn't have that thought process when he went to 3 pitchers in the 6th in the biggest situation in the game. He went with McGee who couldn't get Johnson out so he brought the righty to face bautista and finally the lefty to face Lind. 1 of his 3 matchups worked and thats all he needed..

It wouldn't have been a big issue if Farrell went to Oliver to face Pena then brought in Janssen to hopefully get Longo and finish off the inning. He had 8 guys in the pen for a reason. I just feel like he undermanages his pen way too much

Fair enough, but managing the pen with a three run lead as Maddon was and when you are trailing by 3 as Farrell was requires a different thought process, you are comparing two different situations.

dtmagnet
04-20-2012, 04:12 PM
We lost the games against Tampa because of the starters giving up home runs. Thats it.

Krylian
04-20-2012, 04:27 PM
I hated Cito's managing style when we were winning pennants and titles in the 90's. I get being frustrated with managers, second guessing, and thinking you have the answers. Bottom line is the players need to get it done. These guys have been in the game their whole lives and have forgotten more about baseball than we'll ever know.

I like Farrell. Of the major pro sports coaching has the least impact in baseball.

adid727
04-20-2012, 05:15 PM
I hated Cito's managing style when we were winning pennants and titles in the 90's. I get being frustrated with managers, second guessing, and thinking you have the answers. Bottom line is the players need to get it done. These guys have been in the game their whole lives and have forgotten more about baseball than we'll ever know.

I like Farrell. Of the major pro sports coaching has the least impact in baseball.

no... just no. A Baseball manager is the one that has most impact in major sports. That's why most of the managers in baseball are former catchers, because they know a little hitting in addition to knowing pitching and how to manage pitchers and the bullpen. Look at maddon, every year the rays win two or three games against us thanks to how he manages the bullpen and the lineup. Farrell doesn't seem to understand simple things like lefty and righty match-ups which is why bomber and others are upset.

Nofear
04-20-2012, 05:47 PM
I was gone and couldn't post this in the game thread but I had to stop by to bash Farrell one more time after another pathetic game managing the ballclub

Someone explain to me.. why the was Frasor left in to pitch to Pena and Scott? does he not understand the whole lefty-lefty matchup thing or does he not have any faith in our team scoring 3 runs? I mean you people bash me for quitting when we are down 3 runs yet it is okay for our manager to give up 2 games in a row.

Don't tell me he is the same as Maddon. Maddon brought in 2 different lefties in 1 inning when the lefties in our lineup came up and he got out of the inning with no runs allowed.. yet this idiot sticks with the righty to face guys that hammer righties in Pena and Scott. That is 2 games in a row where a relatively close game turned into a laugher because of his mismanagement.

We dont allow a run there and the 9th inning would have been much more interesting with Lawrie coming up and the tying run on base. I know that making different moves wouldn't gurantee a different outcome but the guy is really not even giving us a chance in these games. Yesterday it was intentionally walking Zobrist when the count was already 3-2 and bringing up their hottest hitter in Pena who eventually ended up walking with the bases loaded to start that shitfest of an inning.

And not to mention having Thames batting 6th and having him come up 3 times with runners in scoring position and having terrible ABs every single time.

This guy is a joke of a manager. That was my belief all through last year and I decided to give him a chance because it was his first year managing. But the guy clearly hasn't learned anything and has perhaps gotten worse with his decisions IMO.

You can't bring in a pitching coach and turn him into a manager overnight. The sooner AA realizes that, the sooner we can get on in our plans to compete.

My first rant thread of the year. Next one will probably feature the genious that is Duane Murphy

Though you do have some points that are good in this thread, I don't really get the bold.

Are you seriously pissed off at Farrel because he folded up the tent when he's down 3 runs going into the 9th? How many times do you expect to come from 3 down in the 9th to actually win?

I understand what your saying but resting pitchers for games you can win on the weekend seems okay to me.

Sure 1 or 2 runs I'd agree with you but 3 runs? Come on Fella, you don't burn up arms on a longshot comeback that has very little hope of being successful. I'll take a full pen of lefties into a weekend series with KC anyday over a pipe dream comeback versus an elite ballclub.

JaysFan87
04-20-2012, 05:59 PM
....I just got home and got quite a laugh. Thanks!

bomber0104
04-20-2012, 06:50 PM
Though you do have some points that are good in this thread, I don't really get the bold.

Are you seriously pissed off at Farrel because he folded up the tent when he's down 3 runs going into the 9th? How many times do you expect to come from 3 down in the 9th to actually win?

I understand what your saying but resting pitchers for games you can win on the weekend seems okay to me.

Sure 1 or 2 runs I'd agree with you but 3 runs? Come on Fella, you don't burn up arms on a longshot comeback that has very little hope of being successful. I'll take a full pen of lefties into a weekend series with KC anyday over a pipe dream comeback versus an elite ballclub.

I hate to keep on bringing up Maddon but who remember the game Price started against us in his rookie year and allowed 7 runs.. Maddon never gave up on that game and kept managing for the win. Well what happend? The Rays came all the way back to win the game.

So no the manager shouldn't ever quit in a 3 run game. Look at what happend the first game of the season?

Krylian
04-20-2012, 09:49 PM
no... just no. A Baseball manager is the one that has most impact in major sports. That's why most of the managers in baseball are former catchers, because they know a little hitting in addition to knowing pitching and how to manage pitchers and the bullpen. Look at maddon, every year the rays win two or three games against us thanks to how he manages the bullpen and the lineup. Farrell doesn't seem to understand simple things like lefty and righty match-ups which is why bomber and others are upset.

I disagree.

Nofear
04-21-2012, 12:54 AM
I hate to keep on bringing up Maddon but who remember the game Price started against us in his rookie year and allowed 7 runs.. Maddon never gave up on that game and kept managing for the win. Well what happend? The Rays came all the way back to win the game.

So no the manager shouldn't ever quit in a 3 run game. Look at what happend the first game of the season?

As I said you have some valid points, but your timing is wrong. Complaining about not using up pitchers when your down 3 runs against the Rays is poor timing because the Jays had next to zero chance for a comeback. This is the Rays pitching staff we're talking about here not some mismatch pile of jokers like last years Jays pen

Oh as for Maddon keeping going, I'm pretty sure theres a big difference in that Jays bullpen back then versus the Rays relievers today. A 20 run lead might not have been safe with the Jays closer.

I'll lay down and pass up an opportunty for an unlikely comeback versus an elite team with the best collection of arms in baseball to save all my leftys for an opponent that we could get three against.

leafswin2011
04-21-2012, 01:23 AM
baseball is very much a mental sport and it starts with your manager to put you in a position to win.not every game we lose is our managers fault like some make it out to be BUT having players hitting in very important parts of our lineup who havent come through for us in a long time is not giving us the best chance to win.hopefully hes learning from his mistakes but the lineup is ridiculous.

dballss
04-21-2012, 02:21 AM
i dont care what anyone says but we're an avg-slightly above avg team, thats all

Jamiecballer
04-21-2012, 10:49 AM
I'll lay down and pass up an opportunty for an unlikely comeback versus an elite team with the best collection of arms in baseball to save all my leftys for an opponent that we could get three against.

really? you'd rather save them for a win that may never come than play to win today?

can you imagine a manager saying something like that to his players in the clubhouse after the game. they'd all quit playing for him on the spot.

bomber0104
04-21-2012, 11:25 AM
As I said you have some valid points, but your timing is wrong. Complaining about not using up pitchers when your down 3 runs against the Rays is poor timing because the Jays had next to zero chance for a comeback. This is the Rays pitching staff we're talking about here not some mismatch pile of jokers like last years Jays pen

Oh as for Maddon keeping going, I'm pretty sure theres a big difference in that Jays bullpen back then versus the Rays relievers today. A 20 run lead might not have been safe with the Jays closer.

I'll lay down and pass up an opportunty for an unlikely comeback versus an elite team with the best collection of arms in baseball to save all my leftys for an opponent that we could get three against.

coming into the series.. the Rays easily had the worst bullpen in baseball with an 11.50 ERA. and there closer Fernando Rodney is a terrible pitcher who had a good 4 innings and was due for a stinker which he did have. Too bad the game was out of reach at that point

treeleaf
04-21-2012, 11:27 AM
really? you'd rather save them for a win that may never come than play to win today?

can you imagine a manager saying something like that to his players in the clubhouse after the game. they'd all quit playing for him on the spot.

Its called strategy... Obviously hes not trying to throw the game but in the context of the situation, saving the arms was the best decision. If you waste the arms and you still lose, then you may "look" better in the media's eyes but in no way shape or form is your team in a better position for the next series.(Which happens to be a series where we could realistically sweep or take 3/4).

Twitchy
04-21-2012, 11:29 AM
really? you'd rather save them for a win that may never come than play to win today?

can you imagine a manager saying something like that to his players in the clubhouse after the game. they'd all quit playing for him on the spot.

What he's saying is you don't burn through your best left handed reliever when you're already down by 3 runs. And he's right.

And now looking in hindsight, it's worth pointing out that because Perez wasn't used in Thursday's game, he was able to pitch 1 2/3 innings in Friday's game. He shut down the Royals and allowed the Jays to come back and win the game. If he pitches in Thursday's game (a game that, let's face it, the Jays would have lost regardless of who came in for relief) then the Jays might lose Friday's game because they don't have Perez to shut down the Royals for a very key 1 2/3 innings.

So instead of potentially costing us two wins (using Perez in a game we'd lose and not having him in Friday's game which could have cost us the game), the Farrell didn't burn Perez for Thursday, saved him for a winnable game on Friday, and the result was a win.

So with the benefit of hindsight we know that it was the right move not to go to Perez on Thursday. Seems like Nofear got it right.

LuckyLuke2
04-21-2012, 11:36 AM
Farrell is a great manager this thread is pathetically useless.

bomber0104
04-21-2012, 11:37 AM
What he's saying is you don't burn through your best left handed reliever when you're already down by 3 runs. And he's right.

And now looking in hindsight, it's worth pointing out that because Perez wasn't used in Thursday's game, he was able to pitch 1 2/3 innings in Friday's game. He shut down the Royals and allowed the Jays to come back and win the game. If he pitches in Thursday's game (a game that, let's face it, the Jays would have lost regardless of who came in for relief) then the Jays might lose Friday's game because they don't have Perez to shut down the Royals for a very key 1 2/3 innings.

So instead of potentially costing us two wins (using Perez in a game we'd lose and not having him in Friday's game which could have cost us the game), the Farrell didn't burn Perez for Thursday, saved him for a winnable game on Friday, and the result was a win.

So with the benefit of hindsight we know that it was the right move not to go to Perez on Thursday. Seems like Nofear got it right.

Dunno how you can say that.. if we were able to keep it at 3 runs.. we had a great 9th inning against Rodney bringing what could have been the winning run in Lawrie to the plate with only 1 out.

and he could have brought in oliver not necessarily perez especially if you only needed to get Pena alone

idrinkpepsi
04-21-2012, 11:42 AM
coming into the series.. the Rays easily had the worst bullpen in baseball with an 11.50 ERA. and there closer Fernando Rodney is a terrible pitcher who had a good 4 innings and was due for a stinker which he did have. Too bad the game was out of reach at that point

I feel that some people in this thread need to listen to the all mighty Small Sample size song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dw9qqvm-LT8)

bomber0104
04-21-2012, 01:01 PM
I feel that some people in this thread need to listen to the all mighty Small Sample size song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dw9qqvm-LT8)

it doesn't take away from the fact that their bullpen was struggling

craigerlee
04-21-2012, 01:02 PM
What he's saying is you don't burn through your best left handed reliever when you're already down by 3 runs. And he's right.

And now looking in hindsight, it's worth pointing out that because Perez wasn't used in Thursday's game, he was able to pitch 1 2/3 innings in Friday's game. He shut down the Royals and allowed the Jays to come back and win the game. If he pitches in Thursday's game (a game that, let's face it, the Jays would have lost regardless of who came in for relief) then the Jays might lose Friday's game because they don't have Perez to shut down the Royals for a very key 1 2/3 innings.

So instead of potentially costing us two wins (using Perez in a game we'd lose and not having him in Friday's game which could have cost us the game), the Farrell didn't burn Perez for Thursday, saved him for a winnable game on Friday, and the result was a win.

So with the benefit of hindsight we know that it was the right move not to go to Perez on Thursday. Seems like Nofear got it right.

I think the argument was to bring in Oliver, I don't think Perez was available on Thursday cause he went 2 IP's on Wednesday. However I completely agree that your down 3 runs in the 9th, there's no reason to burn Oliver, when Jason Frasor is also capable of getting LH's out. Sure it would of been a better matchup Oliver vs. Pena, but then you have a poor matchup in Oliver vs. Longoria and have to burn another reliever. When you have 16 games in a row with no offdays, I think you want to keep your pen as fresh as you can and not play to try and comeback from 3 run deficits in 9th. Frasor didn't execute, simple as that, and to blame Farrell for it is just complete over reaction.

Twitchy
04-21-2012, 01:30 PM
Dunno how you can say that.. if we were able to keep it at 3 runs.. we had a great 9th inning against Rodney bringing what could have been the winning run in Lawrie to the plate with only 1 out.

and he could have brought in oliver not necessarily perez especially if you only needed to get Pena alone

I don't know how you can suggest that the Jays would have made a comeback. I can just as easily say whoever you suggested would have replaced Frasor could have failed and allowed Pena/Longoria to get a hit too.

It's very easy to play the coulda/woulda/shoulda game. Fact is, we know the Jays didn't come back. You can say they could have come back all you want, but we know they didn't. It's as simple as that.

bomber0104
04-21-2012, 01:51 PM
I don't know how you can suggest that the Jays would have made a comeback. I can just as easily say whoever you suggested would have replaced Frasor could have failed and allowed Pena/Longoria to get a hit too.

It's very easy to play the coulda/woulda/shoulda game. Fact is, we know the Jays didn't come back. You can say they could have come back all you want, but we know they didn't. It's as simple as that.

thats my point.. the Jays didn't have a chance to come back because Farrell didn't give them the chance to

Nofear
04-21-2012, 02:23 PM
thats my point.. the Jays didn't have a chance to come back because Farrell didn't give them the chance to

He didn't improve their chances. The still had the same chance, very slim.

You're really hung up on trying to win when you're three down as opposed to looking at the big picture.

Twitchy
04-21-2012, 02:31 PM
thats my point.. the Jays didn't have a chance to come back because Farrell didn't give them the chance to

They were down 6-3 heading into the ninth. They scored one run in the bottom of the ninth. Just because they came back once from a 3 run defecit doesn't mean it's likely to happen again. A team has a 96% chance of winning with a 3 run lead in the bottom of the ninth. For all intents and purposes the game was over.

We know they only scored one run in the ninth. It's not like they would have magically scored 2 extra runs if the score was 6-4 in the bottom of the 9th compared to what it was of 9-4 in the 9th.

They still would have lost, and worse they would have wasted the guy who actually helped them win last night's game. So under your scenario, the Jays lose Thursday AND Friday.

treeleaf
04-21-2012, 04:27 PM
I think the argument was to bring in Oliver, I don't think Perez was available on Thursday cause he went 2 IP's on Wednesday. However I completely agree that your down 3 runs in the 9th, there's no reason to burn Oliver, when Jason Frasor is also capable of getting LH's out. Sure it would of been a better matchup Oliver vs. Pena, but then you have a poor matchup in Oliver vs. Longoria and have to burn another reliever. When you have 16 games in a row with no offdays, I think you want to keep your pen as fresh as you can and not play to try and comeback from 3 run deficits in 9th. Frasor didn't execute, simple as that, and to blame Farrell for it is just complete over reaction.

This. End of thread

bomber0104
04-21-2012, 05:18 PM
They were down 6-3 heading into the ninth. They scored one run in the bottom of the ninth. Just because they came back once from a 3 run defecit doesn't mean it's likely to happen again. A team has a 96% chance of winning with a 3 run lead in the bottom of the ninth. For all intents and purposes the game was over.

We know they only scored one run in the ninth. It's not like they would have magically scored 2 extra runs if the score was 6-4 in the bottom of the 9th compared to what it was of 9-4 in the 9th.

They still would have lost, and worse they would have wasted the guy who actually helped them win last night's game. So under your scenario, the Jays lose Thursday AND Friday.

we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.. plus thats only one of the situations where Farrell is mismanaged the pitching staff this year

Toxeryll
04-21-2012, 10:24 PM
im sure bomber will post here again after the game tonight..

man, farrell had his worst game of the season. leaving hutch far too long, putting thames at 5th spot and rasmus and EE too low.

bomber0104
04-22-2012, 12:48 AM
yeah this will be by "WTF is Farrell doing thread?"

I'm sure i wasn't the only one that was left scratching his head when Hutch was left in there. Its exactly what i've been saying. Farrell seems dead set to have his starters throw 6 innings no matter how many runs they've given

Sanyo
04-22-2012, 12:52 AM
"Farrell sucks", "gym", "i'm out".

craigerlee
04-22-2012, 01:25 AM
Ya Farrell ****ed up by throwing Hutch out there for the 6th inning. However he did more to help us win this game then cost us it, those 3 hit and runs he put on in the 4th inning was a huge reason we won this game. Had he not put those on, we would of scored one run that inning as the Lawrie, Rasmus and JP ground balls were all tailor made double play balls. By realizing Mendoza couldn't miss bats, he got KC to go to their pen in the 4th inning, which actually could help us out the next 2 games in the series too. So you can harp on it all you like that Hutch was left in too long, but Farrell more than made up for that lapse of judgement.

bomber0104
04-22-2012, 01:31 AM
Ya Farrell ****ed up by throwing Hutch out there for the 6th inning. However he did more to help us win this game then cost us it, those 3 hit and runs he put on in the 4th inning was a huge reason we won this game. Had he not put those on, we would of scored one run that inning as the Lawrie, Rasmus and JP ground balls were all tailor made double play balls. By realizing Mendoza couldn't miss bats, he got KC to go to their pen in the 4th inning, which actually could help us out the next 2 games in the series too. So you can harp on it all you like that Hutch was left in too long, but Farrell more than made up for that lapse of judgement.

I could have told you that before the game started.. I love hit and runs but a lot of it has to do with luck. you hit a line drive and the inning could be over just like that. They worked this time and kudos to Farrell and the hitters but they could easily fail next time.

That move to keep Hutch though seems to be a part of a pattern with Farrell and that could be a problem

craigerlee
04-22-2012, 01:41 AM
I could have told you that before the game started.. I love hit and runs but a lot of it has to do with luck. you hit a line drive and the inning could be over just like that. They worked this time and kudos to Farrell and the hitters but they could easily fail next time.

That move to keep Hutch though seems to be a part of a pattern with Farrell and that could be a problem

He created his own luck by putting the hit and runs on, and that's exactly what your idol Maddon does every game. This is only the second time he's left a starter in too long, Morrow and Alvarez were still throwing gas when they were left in, they just didn't execute. Can't blame Farrell for his pitchers not executing. I agree these last two games with Drabek and Hutch they were left in too long.

Sanyo
04-22-2012, 02:10 AM
Guys need to realize this is still a very young rotation! In fact isn't it the 2nd youngest or youngest? Need to check but Alvarez and Hutch at 21, Drabek at 24 and your "ace" being only 27, poses risks to your heart knowing they will have a few outings that will result in you pulling out your hair. The quicker some of you realize this, the quicker some of you can calm down and not stress yourself out -- why shave off 10 years of life due to stress for something you have no control over? Watch the game, realize that the guys struggling are in their early to mid 20's, not 30's. Have fun and enjoy the game people :

Toxeryll
04-22-2012, 02:10 AM
farrell didnt win us the game, rasmus and EE did.

craigerlee
04-22-2012, 02:16 AM
farrell didnt win us the game, rasmus and EE did.

Did I say he won us the game? I said he did more to help us win the game then lose us the game. Obviously players win or lose you the game. That's why this whole thread is joke, to think the Farrell is single handedly losing us ball games. He put out a lineup that probably isn't the most efficient, and it still put up 9 runs. To **** all over Farrell for batting Thames 5th is just dumb cause its pretty immaterial in the grand scheme of things. A manager has very little effect over the outcome, and I can name you at least 10 managers in the MLB that are million times worse than Farrell.

bomber0104
04-22-2012, 02:21 AM
He created his own luck by putting the hit and runs on, and that's exactly what your idol Maddon does every game. This is only the second time he's left a starter in too long, Morrow and Alvarez were still throwing gas when they were left in, they just didn't execute. Can't blame Farrell for his pitchers not executing. I agree these last two games with Drabek and Hutch they were left in too long.


I dont care if they were still throwing 100 .. the fact is these guys weren't executing all game so chances are, they are gonna continue to struggle if you keep throwing them in there

bomber0104
04-22-2012, 02:23 AM
Guys need to realize this is still a very young rotation! In fact isn't it the 2nd youngest or youngest? Need to check but Alvarez and Hutch at 21, Drabek at 24 and your "ace" being only 27, poses risks to your heart knowing they will have a few outings that will result in you pulling out your hair. The quicker some of you realize this, the quicker some of you can calm down and not stress yourself out -- why shave off 10 years of life due to stress for something you have no control over? Watch the game, realize that the guys struggling are in their early to mid 20's, not 30's. Have fun and enjoy the game people :

I realize we have a young rotation but there is no need to keep throwing these guys in when they clearly don't have it hurting their confidence and ultimately hurting the team. they will have plenty of time to develop so the extra 6th or 7th inning isn't gonna affect that but it might still hurt our chances of winning

craigerlee
04-22-2012, 02:37 AM
I dont care if they were still throwing 100 .. the fact is these guys weren't executing all game so chances are, they are gonna continue to struggle if you keep throwing them in there

Well then Farrell should of pulled them in the 2 inning according to you. Alvarez pitched a clean 6th inning and probably would of gotten through the 7th had Lind not made an error. As for Morrow he didn't execute on 2 pitches which went for home runs, otherwise he pitched strong that inning. I can see why Farrell wants to get as many innings out of his starters as he can, that was a major reason last year the pen was so bad, cause Drabek and Reyes were consistently getting yanked in the 4th and the 5th.

JaysFan87
04-22-2012, 09:49 AM
lol

bomber0104
04-22-2012, 12:27 PM
Well then Farrell should of pulled them in the 2 inning according to you. Alvarez pitched a clean 6th inning and probably would of gotten through the 7th had Lind not made an error. As for Morrow he didn't execute on 2 pitches which went for home runs, otherwise he pitched strong that inning. I can see why Farrell wants to get as many innings out of his starters as he can, that was a major reason last year the pen was so bad, cause Drabek and Reyes were consistently getting yanked in the 4th and the 5th.

Well you can say that every pitcher in every game through pretty well but didn't execute on a few pitches that lead to hits and runs.. the fact is, he put Morrow out there and the result was a 2 run game turning into a 4 run game in a game where we had a bunch of chances to score runs in the later innings

jaysrocksox
04-22-2012, 02:53 PM
I love all the people ripping Farrell as if they're better. Why don't you guys have Major League jobs then?

bomber0104
04-22-2012, 05:36 PM
I love all the people ripping Farrell as if they're better. Why don't you guys have Major League jobs then?

again with this argument.. but i'll humour you with an answer

i wasn't born in this country and never played baseball in my life so thats my reasoning.. plus i'm only 21 so its kinda hard to get a major league job at that age

jaysrocksox
04-22-2012, 06:37 PM
Unfortunately, the argument is very valid. If any of us were anything of value in baseball, we'd have jobs with teams.

craigerlee
04-22-2012, 06:41 PM
Unfortunately, the argument is very valid. If any of us were anything of value in baseball, we'd have jobs with teams.

There's kind of an unwritten rule that managers have to be former players. Since there's never been a manager that wasn't a former player, its kinda hard to say that someone without baseball playing experience can't make a good manager. Maddon never got past A ball, but yet he's the best manager and better than pretty much every manager that had a successful playing career. There's pretty much no chance of any of us becoming a manager unless we played pro ball of some sort.

Now there is something to be said about having the respect of your players and being a former player probably goes a long way there. However I don't think its impossible for players to respect you if you didn't play pro ball.

I don't agree with Bomber about Farrell killing this team, but I agree with him here.

Twitchy
04-22-2012, 06:52 PM
That kind of logic is awful. It's like saying I can't criticize a movie because I'm not a director or an actor. I know a bad movie when I see one, just like I can recognize when someone makes a bad managerial decision.

You don't have to be a manager to recognize when they make a good or bad move.

Toxeryll
04-22-2012, 06:53 PM
Unfortunately, the argument is very valid. If any of us were anything of value in baseball, we'd have jobs with teams.

sorry but that argument is stupid.

YUMYUM
04-22-2012, 07:41 PM
I feel dumber after reading this thread

Towelie
04-22-2012, 08:08 PM
I love all the people ripping Farrell as if they're better. Why don't you guys have Major League jobs then?

This is a terrible argument. What % of baseball fans in the world have a job within MLB? What % of people who graduate from sports management actually become a MLB manager? You can know more than someone and still not have a job in the profession.

bomber0104
04-22-2012, 08:15 PM
hey .... at least we agree on something

Krylian
04-22-2012, 08:42 PM
Knock Knock...

Who's there?

John Farrell...

John Farrell who?

John Farrell's a better manager than all of us.

jaysrocksox
04-22-2012, 08:47 PM
This is a terrible argument. What % of baseball fans in the world have a job within MLB? What % of people who graduate from sports management actually become a MLB manager? You can know more than someone and still not have a job in the profession.

Sorry, it's a great argument. Now now, don't everyone get all upset and cry because I pointed out that none of us are anything in baseball. Nowhere did I say the manager had to be a former player, all I said was that if any of us were worth any value, we'd have baseball jobs. All people seem to want to do is criticize this team, and everyone that's a part of it. John Farrell does what he thinks is best for the team during the game, sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not. I support the guy.

Now, with that aside, anyone care for a kleenex?

bomber0104
04-22-2012, 09:05 PM
Sorry, it's a great argument. Now now, don't everyone get all upset and cry because I pointed out that none of us are anything in baseball. Nowhere did I say the manager had to be a former player, all I said was that if any of us were worth any value, we'd have baseball jobs. All people seem to want to do is criticize this team, and everyone that's a part of it. John Farrell does what he thinks is best for the team during the game, sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not. I support the guy.

Now, with that aside, anyone care for a kleenex?

so according to you, most baseball and sport writers in general have no business writing about the game because they didn't play professionally

and no political analyst have any business criticizing the US president because they haven't been presidents themselves

and on and on

jaysrocksox
04-22-2012, 09:10 PM
Did I say that? don't put words in my mouth, kid.

here's a kleenex.

Toxeryll
04-22-2012, 10:32 PM
Did I say that? don't put words in my mouth, kid.

here's a kleenex.

lol, kleenex seriously, thats the best u can come up with?? bomber gave u some analogy of ur logic. u find them ridiculous, well we find urs too

jaysrocksox
04-22-2012, 10:35 PM
No he didn't...he put words in my mouth because he didn't fully understand the context of my post. And yeah, it probably is the best I can come up with because it's already bad enough everyone's crying about what I said, but I won't begin insulting people personally.

JaysFan87
04-22-2012, 11:14 PM
No he didn't...he put words in my mouth because he didn't fully understand the context of my post. And yeah, it probably is the best I can come up with because it's already bad enough everyone's crying about what I said, but I won't begin insulting people personally.

I go out and get a journalism degree and become a political analyst for the local newspaper. DOes my opinion not count or matter?

I become a sports writer does my opinion not count?

lovingTO
04-22-2012, 11:58 PM
I think Farrell has done a pretty good job this year. I've especially liked this team's aggressiveness running the bases.

bomber0104
04-23-2012, 01:21 AM
Did I say that? don't put words in my mouth, kid.

here's a kleenex.

this is exactly what you said.. you said we can't criticize Farrell because none of us is good enough to be a manager in the big leagues.. same way sports writers shouldn't criticize athletes because they aren't good enough to do what they do

and kleenex, really? what are we 5

koreancabbage
04-23-2012, 09:11 AM
I like Farrell has done. He's got his team to come out and beat Kansas City like they are supposed to. Sure they lost the series against the Orioles and the Rays but somehow, the Orioles are a better team and the Rays are the Rays. Our offense is finally clicking in now, so we'll be a little more competitive now - can't blame Farrell on that, and Santos went to the DL, can't blame him on that either.

he's still getting to know his team and he's gonna push the buttons to see what he can get out of his guys later in the season when the same scenario pops out. That double steal was ingenius with Arencibia and Lawrie

jaysrocksox
04-23-2012, 10:26 AM
this is exactly what you said.. you said we can't criticize Farrell because none of us is good enough to be a manager in the big leagues.. same way sports writers shouldn't criticize athletes because they aren't good enough to do what they do

and kleenex, really? what are we 5

Jobs in baseball doesn't necessarily mean managers. Sports writers are sports writers because they know enough about the sport, that's why they have a job in sports.

Well, I thought kleenex was fitting because you and a couple others are doing a lot of crying right now. And still are! So are you done now???

craigerlee
04-23-2012, 10:55 AM
Jobs in baseball doesn't necessarily mean managers. Sports writers are sports writers because they know enough about the sport, that's why they have a job in sports.

Well, I thought kleenex was fitting because you and a couple others are doing a lot of crying right now. And still are! So are you done now???

Your making this huge assumption that everyone in the baseball world is good at their job and everyone outside of it couldn't do the same job. That's pretty delusional. We have sports writers that still think pitcher wins is the be all end all pitcher stat, and we had a sports writer who thought Michael Young was the best player in the league last year. You can't tell me some posters on this forum who don't work in baseball couldn't do a better job than some people that have jobs in this industry. Most people don't pursue jobs in baseball cause the career opportunities are pretty limited, case in point there is only 30 GM jobs in all of baseball, so the odds of ever landing that job is pretty damn slim.

Eagles4Lyfe
04-23-2012, 11:28 AM
Just saw on the score ticker how there is an article about people questioning Farrell's pitcher selections and are turned of by it..

sanjay_prick
04-23-2012, 02:09 PM
It's not like we can do any better, so we shouldn't judge Farrell, or the Blue Jays in general. So essentially:

Nobody can say whether an actor is good or bad, or if the director made some questionable choices, or if a movie is terrible because we are not actors, directors, or film makers. It's not like we can do any better. Otherwise, we would all be in the film industry.

Nobody can say whether or not a particular food or service in a restaurant is bad because we are not cooks, chefs, waiters, or restaurant owners. It's not like we can do any better. Otherwise, we would all have Michelin Stars.

Nobody can say a joke is bad, or particularly unfunny because we are not comedians or writers. It's not like we can do any better. Otherwise, we would all make kleenex jokes.

JaysFan87
04-23-2012, 06:24 PM
Just saw on the score ticker how there is an article about people questioning Farrell's pitcher selections and are turned of by it..

you should probably read the rest of the article.

Cooshman
04-23-2012, 08:04 PM
I don't necessarily agree with every move Farrell makes but I think he has done a pretty good job overall with the team.
I love his aggressive approach on the bases (something we sorely lacked in the past) and he makes some pretty bold defensive moves too (bringing 1 OFer into the infield - when have we ever seen a Jays manger make a move like that). He also did what was sorely needed (and no one did before) which was to move Lind out of the 4spot.....

I say good job so far to Farrell - keep it up!!

jaysrocksox
04-23-2012, 09:13 PM
It's not like we can do any better, so we shouldn't judge Farrell, or the Blue Jays in general. So essentially:

Nobody can say whether an actor is good or bad, or if the director made some questionable choices, or if a movie is terrible because we are not actors, directors, or film makers. It's not like we can do any better. Otherwise, we would all be in the film industry.

Nobody can say whether or not a particular food or service in a restaurant is bad because we are not cooks, chefs, waiters, or restaurant owners. It's not like we can do any better. Otherwise, we would all have Michelin Stars.

Nobody can say a joke is bad, or particularly unfunny because we are not comedians or writers. It's not like we can do any better. Otherwise, we would all make kleenex jokes.


another one crying about this? wow

Kelly Gruber
04-24-2012, 08:46 PM
Managers live by their own agenda. Every one of them will do things the fans don't agree with. Farrell is still developing as a manager, on a young team they'll grow together and could be a great team one day. See how it all plays out.

jaysrocksox
04-24-2012, 10:45 PM
Thank you, Kelly. By the way, the umps blew it, you totally tagged that guy on the ankle.

bomber0104
04-27-2012, 10:35 PM
haha.. another one on Farrell..

COCO as closer ... LMFAO

Krylian
04-27-2012, 10:49 PM
haha.. another one on Farrell..

COCO as closer ... LMFAO

It's Coco's fault that Lawrie couldn't make a throw.

If you're gonna make a point, make one that's relevant.

bomber0104
04-27-2012, 10:51 PM
It's Coco's fault that Lawrie couldn't make a throw.

If you're gonna make a point, make one that's relevant.

its farrell fault that coco is closing and its his fault that he didn't bring in Perez to face Ackley and Jaso

thats where we lost the game and there is no way u can convince me otherwise..

Perez gets Jaso there 9 times out of 10

Jays#1
04-27-2012, 11:30 PM
its farrell fault that coco is closing and its his fault that he didn't bring in Perez to face Ackley and Jaso

thats where we lost the game and there is no way u can convince me otherwise..

Perez gets Jaso there 9 times out of 10

Coco did his job, he got a ground ball to end the game, how is it his fault that play was not executed, ackley and Jaso never should have been up there in the first place. I don't see how you can blame Farrell on this one but you seem to blame him for every loss so I guess it is a moot point

bomber0104
04-28-2012, 12:04 AM
Coco did his job, he got a ground ball to end the game, how is it his fault that play was not executed, ackley and Jaso never should have been up there in the first place. I don't see how you can blame Farrell on this one but you seem to blame him for every loss so I guess it is a moot point

Coco should have still been able to finish it off.. i mean a guy like Jaso isn't exactly a world beater and he had him down 1-2.. but of course sicne he can't strike anyone out (some closer eh), the ball was put in play and they scored..

But coco wouldn't have had to face Jaso if Farrell has an ounce of baseball knowledge in him.. he never manages the splits and that is what lost us the game..

Jaso hits .185 vs. lefties and lefties hit .100 vs. Perez.. you do the math

JaysFan87
04-28-2012, 12:16 AM
I guesss some ppl still dont understand that the MLB is managed to the closer. I guess its still harder for some to grasp the concept than others. Oh well, idiots will be idiots i guess.

bomber0104
04-28-2012, 03:05 AM
I guesss some ppl still dont understand that the MLB is managed to the closer. I guess its still harder for some to grasp the concept than others. Oh well, idiots will be idiots i guess.

i'm not gonna insult u because i don't need to do that to feel better about myself which u obviously feel the need to do.

We lost our closer so everybody should be in play.. i dont care if Coco gets butt hurt and if Farrell and AA really care about winning games, neither should they. This isn't 1990. You aren't gonna win playing with that old school mentality.

Twitchy
04-28-2012, 08:22 AM
Yeah how stupid of Farrell to use the guy with the most closing experience in his bullpen when Santos is down with injury.

As nice as it would have been for him to play the splits, you'd be the first guy to jump on him for not assigning a real closer if one of his moves didn't pan out.

Just gets more ridiculous every time.

bomber0104
04-28-2012, 11:49 AM
Yeah how stupid of Farrell to use the guy with the most closing experience in his bullpen when Santos is down with injury.

As nice as it would have been for him to play the splits, you'd be the first guy to jump on him for not assigning a real closer if one of his moves didn't pan out.

Just gets more ridiculous every time.

and that is exactly where we went wrong.. who cares about his closing experience.. He used to throw 96 and strike over a better per inning when he was accumulating this saves.. he doesn't have that stuff nor the strikeout ability to be a closer in this division.

And no, i've been saying play the splits all year and if the right move is made and it doesn't work, then what ur gonna do. But when you make the obvious wrong move, obviously its frustrating

Krylian
04-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Coco got the ground ball. The game should've been over. You give a MLB team extra outs and they're gonna score. IF Coco was giving up homers here there and everywhere then go ahead and say that he stunk and blew it...but he got the contact that we all wanted him to get, a grounder. In yesterday's case, he did what he needed to do and the third baseman blew it. You just have a distaste for Cordero and want to pin whatever you can on him, whether it's warranted or not. When he's bad, rip him...but when something happens that's not his fault, don't make things up.

Twitchy
04-28-2012, 02:40 PM
and that is exactly where we went wrong.. who cares about his closing experience.. He used to throw 96 and strike over a better per inning when he was accumulating this saves.. he doesn't have that stuff nor the strikeout ability to be a closer in this division.

And no, i've been saying play the splits all year and if the right move is made and it doesn't work, then what ur gonna do. But when you make the obvious wrong move, obviously its frustrating

The Jays were leading 5-3. He got a flyout, allowed a solo HR, got a pop up and then got a ground ball. Game over, if Lawrie doesn't boot it. So now he needs to get 4 outs.

So this one would be on Lawrie, not Farrell. Certainly Arencibia's throwing error didn't help things either.

As for using somebody else in the bullpen, who do you recommend?

Frasor? Certainly not the way he's pitched this year.
Janssen? He's been awful too.

Outside of Perez/Oliver the entire pen has been awful. It wouldn't matter if Farrell went to Frasor, Cordero or Janssen right now because all three are pretty awful this season.

I'm not the biggest fan of Cordero's but it's not like Frasor or Janssen are pitching well right now. If somebody steps it up I'm in favour of it but until that point it really doesn't make a difference who closes. Let's at least acknowledge that the majority of the relievers have struggled this season.

Tmath
04-28-2012, 03:00 PM
The Jays were leading 5-3. He got a flyout, allowed a solo HR, got a pop up and then got a ground ball. Game over, if Lawrie doesn't boot it. So now he needs to get 4 outs.

So this one would be on Lawrie, not Farrell. Certainly Arencibia's throwing error didn't help things either.

As for using somebody else in the bullpen, who do you recommend?

Frasor? Certainly not the way he's pitched this year.
Janssen? He's been awful too.

Outside of Perez/Oliver the entire pen has been awful. It wouldn't matter if Farrell went to Frasor, Cordero or Janssen right now because all three are pretty awful this season.

I'm not the biggest fan of Cordero's but it's not like Frasor or Janssen are pitching well right now. If somebody steps it up I'm in favour of it but until that point it really doesn't make a difference who closes. Let's at least acknowledge that the majority of the relievers have struggled this season.

Yes Lawrie made the error but it was still a catchable play that Lind unfortunately couldn't execute.

JP's error was just a dumb play which ultimately cost us the game.

Cordero is a contact pitcher, we already tried this last season with Rauch & we all know how it played out.

nithanyo
04-28-2012, 03:23 PM
Yes Lawrie made the error but it was still a catchable play that Lind unfortunately couldn't execute.

JP's error was just a dumb play which ultimately cost us the game.

Cordero is a contact pitcher, we already tried this last season with Rauch & we all know how it played out.

If that throw was even half decent we win the game. You gave the mariners extra outs.

FFS im sure i could make that throw

bomber0104
04-28-2012, 06:59 PM
Coco is just not closer material

9 IP, 12 H, 4 BB, 6 K... in what league is that closer material

yeah Janssen and Frasor's ERA aren't that pretty either but at least their other stats aren't that horrible.. and i'm not saying use these guys. Im saying play the matchups.. so yes coco came in and might have gotten unlucky to not get the save, but there is no excuse for not bringing in Perez to face Jaso..

nithanyo
04-28-2012, 07:28 PM
Coco is just not closer material

9 IP, 12 H, 4 BB, 6 K... in what league is that closer material

yeah Janssen and Frasor's ERA aren't that pretty either but at least their other stats aren't that horrible.. and i'm not saying use these guys. Im saying play the matchups.. so yes coco came in and might have gotten unlucky to not get the save, but there is no excuse for not bringing in Perez to face Jaso..

If a man is your closer he stays in the game until he blows the save. Im sure 29 other managers do the same thing.

Twitchy
04-28-2012, 07:40 PM
Coco is just not closer material

9 IP, 12 H, 4 BB, 6 K... in what league is that closer material

yeah Janssen and Frasor's ERA aren't that pretty either but at least their other stats aren't that horrible.. and i'm not saying use these guys. Im saying play the matchups.. so yes coco came in and might have gotten unlucky to not get the save, but there is no excuse for not bringing in Perez to face Jaso..

They've allowed a ton of home runs. That's a pretty horrible stat.

bomber0104
04-28-2012, 08:01 PM
They've allowed a ton of home runs. That's a pretty horrible stat.

Francisco has allowed 2 himself

bomber0104
04-28-2012, 08:02 PM
If a man is your closer he stays in the game until he blows the save. Im sure 29 other managers do the same thing.

it is a sad reality that i'm fine with if you have your actual closer out there. but when your closer is not available, you shouldn't be held hostage by that rule especially to a guy as mediocre as COCo

nithanyo
04-28-2012, 08:19 PM
it is a sad reality that i'm fine with if you have your actual closer out there. but when your closer is not available, you shouldn't be held hostage by that rule especially to a guy as mediocre as COCo

Personally i want them to give perez a shot at setting up and possibly closing but as of right now Im fine with Cordero. He has the most experience in that role.

If i was farell i give him one more shot at closing. if he blows it, maybe its time to move on. P.S. yesterday was not his fault.

bomber0104
05-01-2012, 11:25 PM
So Lind continues to hit clean up and Coco will remain the closer despite having one clean inning all year and the following numbers

11 IP, 17 H, 6 ER, 3 HR, 4 BB, 7K

and having allowed runs in 3 straight and 4 of 5 appearances

jaysrocksox
05-04-2012, 08:17 PM
You better call Farrell up and give him a piece of your mind then!! you'll put him in his place, that's for sure. No doubt about that.

bomber0104
05-06-2012, 12:09 AM
thats another one on Farrell..

I believe that as long as he is given a chance to **** a game up, there is a good chance he will proceed to

rapsjaysfan88
05-06-2012, 12:12 AM
thats another one on Farrell..

I believe that as long as he is given a chance to **** a game up, there is a good chance he will proceed to

Dude you should have bid on the JF dinner, to give him a piece of ur mind

bomber0104
05-06-2012, 12:24 AM
Dude you should have bid on the JF dinner, to give him a piece of ur mind

nah i might have committed a crime

nithanyo
05-06-2012, 12:47 AM
lol this thread gets bumped to the top by Bomber after every loss

bomber0104
05-06-2012, 12:51 AM
lol this thread gets bumped to the top by Bomber after every loss

if i feel like Farrell ****ed up then you bet i will..

and he ****ed up big time in this game

Twitchy
05-06-2012, 01:11 AM
I'm locking this thread because it's just ridiculous now. Keep your complaints in the game thread.