PDA

View Full Version : Bucher: If Kings Move, Vancouver would be a "very viable spot"



Mile High Champ
04-17-2012, 11:12 PM
The Sacramento Kings might be on the move after all now that their arena deal has fallen apart. But now it seems Seattle has a new, unexpected competitor in its attempt to land an NBA team.

Ric Bucher, an NBA reporter for ESPN, told "The Kevin Calabro Show" on Friday that if the Kings were to leave Sacramento, Vancouver, British Columbia would be a "very viable spot."

"Maybe, quite honestly, the most viable spot right now among places that gets the next NBA franchise that is on the move," Bucher said.

With investor Chris Hansen working to build an arena in Seattle, Vancouver wouldn't seem to be first in line for a relocated franchise, but Bucher said the city has a few things working in its favor.

"They have the corporate infrastructure, they have a building that they can readily move into ... they also have a very hot hockey team there currently," he said, referring to the Canucks, who are in first place in the Northwest Division. "It's a place that [the NBA] doesn't want to give up on."

NBA commissioner David Stern has faced turmoil in the past year with several franchises, including the Hornets and Bobcats and now the Kings. What would he think of a move across the Canadian border?

"We know that David Stern has always wanted to make this as global as possible. And everything that I'm hearing is that the China experiment failed, that the current owners are not interested in expanding into Europe anytime soon," Bucher said. "This is a way to expand back globally a little bit without it being too risky."

Some might see this as a blip on the NBA relocation radar, but Bucher insists Vancouver will remain a strong player in the battle for a franchise.

"It was one of those things on the NBA coconut- telegraph that will not go away as far as Vancouver being far more attractive than Anaheim," he said, "and even having the ability to elbow Seattle out of the way."

Time will tell if the Kings will move from Sacramento and exactly where they'll land. The silver lining for Seattle: Hansen is moving forward with his plans to build an arena in SoDo and remains committed to bringing the NBA back to the city.

The question remains as to just how long we'll wait.

http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=384&sid=661994&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Exciting news as a Canadian basketball fan. Thoughts?

kjoke
04-17-2012, 11:17 PM
Noooooooooooooo.

justinnum1
04-17-2012, 11:19 PM
**** :puke:er

JasonJohnHorn
04-17-2012, 11:27 PM
Being a Canadian and a fan of basketball, there is nothing I would love more than to have more Canadian teams, but that said, seeing how hard it has been for Toronto, the third largest market in the NBA, to bring in talent via free agency and keep the talent they get via the draft, I just don't think its a good idea. It essentially a lock that the team will forever be in a rebuilding process. Its a sad state of affairs, but it is what it is. I think its the taxes more than anything else. I mean, Miami could offer less money and they player would end up with more after taxes then signing with a Canadian club.

I think Seatle still wants a team... maybe they can move there.

spreadeagle
04-17-2012, 11:33 PM
Honestly they coud support a team, I think Nash has brought a ton of basketball fans out there who now like the game more then 15 yrs ago pre Nash days...and Vancouver is a very rich city with a HUGE Chinese/Asian population...that being said do I think it will happen, no

carson005
04-17-2012, 11:34 PM
This would be awesome! Kings are my favourite team too.

heyman321
04-17-2012, 11:43 PM
Being a Canadian and a fan of basketball, there is nothing I would love more than to have more Canadian teams, but that said, seeing how hard it has been for Toronto, the third largest market in the NBA, to bring in talent via free agency and keep the talent they get via the draft, I just don't think its a good idea. It essentially a lock that the team will forever be in a rebuilding process. Its a sad state of affairs, but it is what it is. I think its the taxes more than anything else. I mean, Miami could offer less money and they player would end up with more after taxes then signing with a Canadian club.

I think Seatle still wants a team... maybe they can move there.

What talent? The reason players left is because the team is crappy not because it's in Toronto. With the exception of T-mac, I don't think anyone has ever wanted out because they were playing in Canada.

Stoudamire? Nope. Carter? team sucked. Bosh? team sucked. I fail to see where the inability to keep "drafted talent" is. Also the taxes point is moot, because the IRS and NBA compensate for it. You can even read it on the IRS's website, it's in their policy.

Cal827
04-17-2012, 11:46 PM
As an avid Hockey fan as well.. I don't think Vancouver would want any team with the name "Kings" anywhere around them right now :D

More-Than-Most
04-18-2012, 12:00 AM
treez is not liking this

FutureGM
04-18-2012, 12:03 AM
As long as they keep the team out of California I'm happy. Las Vegas, Vancouver, or Seattle would be fine in my books.

Nothing would make me happier than seeing Seattle get their team back. I couldn't imagine losing mine in the first place...

shep33
04-18-2012, 12:08 AM
You had me at Bucher...

Sadds The Gr8
04-18-2012, 12:09 AM
in before the ignorance about Canada posts.

Shammyguy3
04-18-2012, 12:14 AM
I'd love for this to happen

VCaintdead17
04-18-2012, 12:14 AM
in before the ignorance about Canada posts.

canada=sux

effen5
04-18-2012, 09:23 AM
More contracting less moving, nba needs to remove the cats hornets etc off the nba. And no offense to the Canadians but Seattle deserves a team more then vancouver

thekmp211
04-18-2012, 09:27 AM
right, let's move to a city that failed once with a franchise, and will have a built in disadvantage competing against a very popular hockey team.

bucher strikes again.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-18-2012, 09:27 AM
Las Vegas should get a team. The fans were great at the 2007 All-star Game.

theheatles
04-18-2012, 09:29 AM
Vancouver had their chance

BKLYNpigeon
04-18-2012, 09:58 AM
Vegas would be a terrible option. Vancouver or Seattle would be the best option. But I have a sneaky feeling the kings will go to San Jose or Southern California.

its not about selling tickets or jerseys. its about the TV Market. Teams make the bulk of their money from their TV contracts. think of it this way. The Lakers make 10x more money then Portland on their TV Deal.

The Maloofs need MONEY. they just sold their Palms Casino and only own 2% of it now.

Shammyguy3
04-18-2012, 10:06 AM
right, let's move to a city that failed once with a franchise, and will have a built in disadvantage competing against a very popular hockey team.

bucher strikes again.

Except that city didn't fail, the owner wanted out. And saying they have a built-in disadvantage competing against the hockey team... what the crap is that? That makes no sense... so the Canucks are going to steal basketball players from the team if they get one? :laugh2:

Chicago has a very popular hockey team. So does Philly, Boston, New York, and a plethora of other cities. That doesn't interfere with operating the team or building a successful franchise.

thekmp211
04-18-2012, 10:08 AM
Vegas would be a terrible option. Vancouver or Seattle would be the best option. But I have a sneaky feeling the kings will go to San Jose or Southern California.

its not about selling tickets or jerseys. its about the TV Market. Teams make the bulk of their money from their TV contracts. think of it this way. The Lakers make 10x more money then Portland on their TV Deal.

The Maloofs need MONEY. they just sold their Palms Casino and only own 2% of it now.

bingo, bango. this is going to be the biggest change for sports franchise business models, and the first teams to realize it and capitalize on it will benefit tremendously. the irony is that it will probably coincide with making attendance cheaper again ... which i why t.v. deals became so vital in the first place.

thekmp211
04-18-2012, 10:11 AM
Except that city didn't fail, the owner wanted out. And saying they have a built-in disadvantage competing against the hockey team... what the crap is that? That makes no sense... so the Canucks are going to steal basketball players from the team if they get one? :laugh2:

Chicago has a very popular hockey team. So does Philly, Boston, New York, and a plethora of other cities. That doesn't interfere with operating the team or building a successful franchise.

it's different. all of those cities have a big, big inherent basketball culture. there are millions of hoops fans in each of those cities.

not to overstate my knowledge of vancouver, but i don't think it's like that at all. hockey is the cultural sport. you don't have a big base of basketball fanatics waiting for their own franchise.

it's just far from an optimal nba city.

ManningToTyree
04-18-2012, 10:19 AM
The Vancouver experiment failed already. I have no problem with picking up a 2nd Canadian team, but not there.

NoahH
04-18-2012, 10:43 AM
I'd be ecstatic if a team came back to Vancouver.

To all you people who are saying that the Vancouver team 'failed,' that's not true. There were alot of issues at play that wasn't the fault of the city or the fans. First of all, the American dollar was 60cents to buy 1 Canadian dollar, which made it more expensive for the team to run in Canada. Second of all, the owner was a ******** and he wanted out of Vancouver since the early stages. The Grizzlies never put a quality team on the floor. EVER. And they drafted terribly as well. Overall, the franchise was poorly run.

I live in Vancouver and the popularity of basketball is rising and is actually huge at the moment. Steve Nash did alot for basketball in this area. I personally think a team would work here, but someone has to take the chance.

thekmp211
04-18-2012, 10:48 AM
I'd be ecstatic if a team came back to Vancouver.

To all you people who are saying that the Vancouver team 'failed,' that's not true. There were alot of issues at play that wasn't the fault of the city or the fans. First of all, the American dollar was 60cents to buy 1 Canadian dollar, which made it more expensive for the team to run in Canada. Second of all, the owner was a ******** and he wanted out of Vancouver since the early stages. The Grizzlies never put a quality team on the floor. EVER. And they drafted terribly as well. Overall, the franchise was poorly run.

I live in Vancouver and the popularity of basketball is rising and is actually huge at the moment. Steve Nash did alot for basketball in this area. I personally think a team would work here, but someone has to take the chance.

i think that this is what i mean. some things would have pan out right, and frankly there are several more cities that are better-made to host an nba franchise.

i have no like or dislike of vancouver, just looking at it from a hoops perspective. if the culture is that big, then maybe you are right.

Bramaca
04-18-2012, 11:11 AM
i think that this is what i mean. some things would have pan out right, and frankly there are several more cities that are better-made to host an nba franchise.

i have no like or dislike of vancouver, just looking at it from a hoops perspective. if the culture is that big, then maybe you are right.

The idea of relocation has to be looked at in current conditions, as in right now what is the best option because when a team is looking at relocating it is a right now decision. The Kings/Maloofs aren't looking at what might happen down the road (Seattle may build an arena that could be ready in a few years) because they would just be putting themselves in a similar situation. Vancouver is among the fastest growing large cities in the US/Canada, has a lot more opportunity for corporate support then Sacramento, and has an arena they could move into today.

There aren't too many options that can beat that. Seattle still doesn't have the arena (which is what they are trying to get away from), Anaheim and San Jose have arenas and corporations but they would be the 3rd team in one area and the 2nd in another. The best competition seems to be cities in the mid-west and east but they really seem to be looking only at the west coast area. If an owner is to move a team in this area this offseason or next, Vancouver is the best option.

Shammyguy3
04-18-2012, 11:14 AM
it's different. all of those cities have a big, big inherent basketball culture. there are millions of hoops fans in each of those cities.

not to overstate my knowledge of vancouver, but i don't think it's like that at all. hockey is the cultural sport. you don't have a big base of basketball fanatics waiting for their own franchise.

it's just far from an optimal nba city.

There's basketball culture in Phoenix? In Minnesota? In Portland? in Oklahoma City?

There are 611,000 people in Vancouver. It's not like they'll struggle to get 15,000+ fans there. There's a ready made stadium available, and a huge market in all of Canada to advertise to (in stride with Toronto).

If you're worried about fans in Vancouver, CA ... then so should half the league in the NBA (e.g. Milwaukee).

Mile High Champ
04-18-2012, 11:18 AM
right, let's move to a city that failed once with a franchise, and will have a built in disadvantage competing against a very popular hockey team.

bucher strikes again.

Shows me you know nothing about what happened in Vancouver. The owner was the reason why the team moved, not because the team could not be supported in the city. Please do some background reading next time before making out of the air statements. ;)

da ThRONe
04-18-2012, 11:25 AM
What talent? The reason players left is because the team is crappy not because it's in Toronto. With the exception of T-mac, I don't think anyone has ever wanted out because they were playing in Canada.

Stoudamire? Nope. Carter? team sucked. Bosh? team sucked. I fail to see where the inability to keep "drafted talent" is. Also the taxes point is moot, because the IRS and NBA compensate for it. You can even read it on the IRS's website, it's in their policy.

I agree this problem isn't exclusive to Canada. This goes for every none glamor team in the NBA under the current salary cap structure.

thekmp211
04-18-2012, 11:29 AM
The idea of relocation has to be looked at in current conditions, as in right now what is the best option because when a team is looking at relocating it is a right now decision. The Kings/Maloofs aren't looking at what might happen down the road (Seattle may build an arena that could be ready in a few years) because they would just be putting themselves in a similar situation. Vancouver is among the fastest growing large cities in the US/Canada, has a lot more opportunity for corporate support then Sacramento, and has an arena they could move into today.


There aren't too many options that can beat that. Seattle still doesn't have the arena (which is what they are trying to get away from), Anaheim and San Jose have arenas and corporations but they would be the 3rd team in one area and the 2nd in another. The best competition seems to be cities in the mid-west and east but they really seem to be looking only at the west coast area. If an owner is to move a team in this area this offseason or next, Vancouver is the best option.

maybe. logistically you are probably right and frankly that is why vancouver vaults up the list from the maloofs standpoint.


There's basketball culture in Phoenix? In Minnesota? In Portland? in Oklahoma City?

There are 611,000 people in Vancouver. It's not like they'll struggle to get 15,000+ fans there. There's a ready made stadium available, and a huge market in all of Canada to advertise to (in stride with Toronto).

If you're worried about fans in Vancouver, CA ... then so should half the league in the NBA (e.g. Milwaukee).

portland is known to be one of the coolest cities in the country, and their fans are rabid. don't know about okc but they aren't having problems now as a franchise. but your point is valid.

look i'm not saying that expansion has been perfect. i would have two teams in chicago, a team in KC, maybe louisville, pittsburgh .. before i would ever put a franchise in minny. lots of huge bball markets to exploit.

but you have to think about why expansion teams were put where they were. they were being created precisely to market NBA basketball to regions that didn't normally get a ton of access. what they didn't consider, of course, was that people will only show up if the product is good.

in that sense, and this is what bucher was claiming to be the true inspiration anyway, vancouver makes sense. it is a different market with the potential to stick, if the team is good. but if we're taking basketball towns, it's just not at the top. not a knock.

thekmp211
04-18-2012, 11:32 AM
Shows me you know nothing about what happened in Vancouver. The owner was the reason why the team moved, not because the team could not be supported in the city. Please do some background reading next time before making out of the air statements. ;)

right, and why would an nba owner want to leave canada....and go to a major us market....

...i just can't possibly imagine what he was up to.

look canucks, you're right in saying it's not cut and dry but lets not act like vancouver had it's baby ripped from its arms. it wasn't a good fit.

THE GIPPER
04-18-2012, 11:33 AM
That would be amazing

THE GIPPER
04-18-2012, 11:34 AM
Vancouver had their chance

False. They were not given a chance and that was the problem.

thekmp211
04-18-2012, 11:37 AM
it was just a ****** situation all around, like most expansion franchises in the early years.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/04/16/grizzlies-long-gone-but-vancouvers-viability-as-nba-city-sits-very-high-according-to-u-s-sources/

nate2usmc
04-18-2012, 11:46 AM
Kings need to move to Vancouver ASAP and sign Nash to a damn near max contract :win:

BTG50EAGLE
04-18-2012, 11:49 AM
I live in Vancouver, and it was horrible when the Grizzlies left
Even though they were terrible we all loved them, that greedy punk *** piece of ******* Micheael Heisley screwed all of us.
I guarantee that our city would fully back and support a new team, this news has given the city a new hope. We have a massive basketball crowd here, and we would love nothing more than another team, regardless of whether they suck or whatever. But I wont get my hopes up too high, I know its a long process. Sure, many of the stars players may leave if the team came to Canada, thats fine, we just want a team again.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
04-18-2012, 11:50 AM
It's close enough to Seattle:shrug:

KingPosey
04-18-2012, 12:05 PM
lol, if they move to Vancouver, that means the Maloofs are no longer the owners. If the Maloofs are no longer the owners, there would be absolutely no reason to move at all.

nate2usmc
04-18-2012, 12:05 PM
Seriously. How do the Bobcats exist in CHARLOTTE and the Bucks exist in Milwaukee but Vancouver and Seattle don't have a team? :confused:

I even question the existence of the Hawks in Atlanta :hide:

smith&wesson
04-18-2012, 12:21 PM
Seattle and vancouver are right next to eachother. the support and love for basket ball is there. Those cities just need another chance.

i would be happy with either city getting a team.

smith&wesson
04-18-2012, 12:35 PM
Noooooooooooooo.

Why not ?


**** :puke:er

all those posts under your belt and this is the best you can come up with ?


canada=sux

cool thanks. are we supose to bash the states now ? is that how this game works ?


right, let's move to a city that failed once with a franchise, and will have a built in disadvantage competing against a very popular hockey team.

bucher strikes again.

my man, just because vancouver is a hockey town it doesnt mean they cant support another sports team. toronto is also a hockey town.


Vancouver had their chance

not a fair one. there are alot of basket ball fans in Vancouver B.C and also surounding cities, provinces that would love for a team to be there.


it's different. all of those cities have a big, big inherent basketball culture. there are millions of hoops fans in each of those cities.

not to overstate my knowledge of vancouver, but i don't think it's like that at all. hockey is the cultural sport. you don't have a big base of basketball fanatics waiting for their own franchise.

it's just far from an optimal nba city.

but you are overstating your knowledge of vancouver. no disprespect but your asuming alot of things.


The Vancouver experiment failed already. I have no problem with picking up a 2nd Canadian team, but not there.

like where mtl ? edmonton ? maybe, but i think vancouver would have a better chance


i think that this is what i mean. some things would have pan out right, and frankly there are several more cities that are better-made to host an nba franchise.

i have no like or dislike of vancouver, just looking at it from a hoops perspective. if the culture is that big, then maybe you are right.

if you ever been to vancouver you would love it. woman are beatifull, always warm weather, its a beatifull city.


maybe. logistically you are probably right and frankly that is why vancouver vaults up the list from the maloofs standpoint.

portland is known to be one of the coolest cities in the country, and their fans are rabid. don't know about okc but they aren't having problems now as a franchise. but your point is valid.

look i'm not saying that expansion has been perfect. i would have two teams in chicago, a team in KC, maybe louisville, pittsburgh .. before i would ever put a franchise in minny. lots of huge bball markets to exploit.

but you have to think about why expansion teams were put where they were. they were being created precisely to market NBA basketball to regions that didn't normally get a ton of access. what they didn't consider, of course, was that people will only show up if the product is good.

in that sense, and this is what bucher was claiming to be the true inspiration anyway, vancouver makes sense. it is a different market with the potential to stick, if the team is good. but if we're taking basketball towns, it's just not at the top. not a knock.


alot has changed since when vancouver has lost their team including the population of the city. you know how many raptors fans are in vancouver ? were talking about a city in the west coast supporting a team in the east coast because they have no other team in canada.

and to compare portland to vancouver just shows that indeed you have never been to vancouver. theres no comparison. if you had the choice of living in one of those cities and visited both you would def pick vancouver trust me. Vancouver is one of the nicest cities you could visit in north america. if you think portland is one of the "coolest" cities youll think B.C is the red light district.


it was just a ****** situation all around, like most expansion franchises in the early years.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/04/16/grizzlies-long-gone-but-vancouvers-viability-as-nba-city-sits-very-high-according-to-u-s-sources/

like any other franchise in order for things to work alot of things have to go right.

Yunqn
04-18-2012, 12:54 PM
Being a Canadian and a fan of basketball, there is nothing I would love more than to have more Canadian teams, but that said, seeing how hard it has been for Toronto, the third largest market in the NBA, to bring in talent via free agency and keep the talent they get via the draft, I just don't think its a good idea. It essentially a lock that the team will forever be in a rebuilding process. Its a sad state of affairs, but it is what it is. I think its the taxes more than anything else. I mean, Miami could offer less money and they player would end up with more after taxes then signing with a Canadian club.

I think Seatle still wants a team... maybe they can move there.

Everything but the tax part is false..

The chicago bulls cant land any big freeagents.. Ima a bulls fans an noone wants to come here.. For max or not .. It all depends on who can offerthe best situation.. Livin wise market wise,winning wise, and last but not least a chance to be the guy.. U automatically are the guy i u go to a team like the bobcats an people dont want that by default..

If the raptors were always winning and atleast year after year fighting for higher than a the 5th seed, guys would consider canada alot. U cant faut a guy for going to where theres no talent w.out them and this is a common mistake fans make all the time.. Its all about what you can offer .. toronto isnt no cleveland .. No offense they just have a more entertaining city,venues,marketing and etc..

The bad teams dot get free agents and thats how it should be .. The owners should suffer for not putting any talent around them and then banking on one average guy who u overpay for to get u out of it ..

thekmp211
04-18-2012, 12:54 PM
my man, just because vancouver is a hockey town it doesnt mean they cant support another sports team. toronto is also a hockey town.

toronto is the 4th biggest market in NA. i'm just saying, most cities have a pecking order when it comes to sports.


not a fair one. there are alot of basket ball fans in Vancouver B.C and also surounding cities, provinces that would love for a team to be there.

i'll take your word for it. i dont doubt that there are enough fans numerically, but i highly doubt basketball is a regional culture the way it is in places like new york, chicago, la ect.


but you are overstating your knowledge of vancouver. no disprespect but your asuming alot of things.

ya, i don't know a lot about it.


alot has changed since when vancouver has lost their team including the population of the city. you know how many raptors fans are in vancouver ? were talking about a city in the west coast supporting a team in the east coast because they have no other team in canada.

again this statement seems a bit strong, but okay.


and to compare portland to vancouver just shows that indeed you have never been to vancouver. theres no comparison. if you had the choice of living in one of those cities and visited both you would def pick vancouver trust me. Vancouver is one of the nicest cities you could visit in north america. if you think portland is one of the "coolest" cities youll think B.C is the red light district.

not comparing, i've never been to either city. but the post i was responded to characterized portland in the way i was portraying vancouver, as a middling market with a tepid fanbase. it seems as though portland is what a vancouver team might strive to be.


like any other franchise in order for things to work alot of things have to go right.

well sure. but when you're losing games, sieving money and all of your players are telling you how much they hate playing where they play, how many other options are there? if the population and corporate culture there are really that different than maybe you are right, the fact is i really don't know. but the city had some things working against it.

THE GIPPER
04-18-2012, 01:14 PM
I can testify to what smith&wesson is saying about people in Vancouver and BC in general supporting the raptors. Tons of raptor fans in BC.


http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=Van&lg=n

I dont know how relevant this is but its the attendance for the grizz when they were in Van. Not all that bad considering how terrible they were. The city has also has grown since then and bball has become a lot more popular.

_KB24_
04-18-2012, 01:16 PM
If anything, it'll be because of the existing infrastructure and logistics around the whole scenario. Read some of the reports, the NBA if anything wants to capitalize on the booming market there. Read somewhere that Stern was spotted meeting the Aquillinis during one of the Canucks games in the regular season.

king4day
04-18-2012, 01:18 PM
I would love to see Vancouver get another shot at this. I thought I read that the reason that franchise floundered was not because of people showing up, but because of ownership. They could have a very good following just like the Raptors.

That said, I'd much rather the NBA just expand 2 more teams and give Seattle and Vancouver teams. Then keep a short leash on teams struggling to keep a crowd.

C_Mund
04-18-2012, 01:25 PM
toronto is the 4th biggest market in NA. i'm just saying, most cities have a pecking order when it comes to sports.



i'll take your word for it. i dont doubt that there are enough fans numerically, but i highly doubt basketball is a regional culture the way it is in places like new york, chicago, la ect.



ya, i don't know a lot about it.



again this statement seems a bit strong, but okay.



not comparing, i've never been to either city. but the post i was responded to characterized portland in the way i was portraying vancouver, as a middling market with a tepid fanbase. it seems as though portland is what a vancouver team might strive to be.



well sure. but when you're losing games, sieving money and all of your players are telling you how much they hate playing where they play, how many other options are there? if the population and corporate culture there are really that different than maybe you are right, the fact is i really don't know. but the city had some things working against it.

When I opened this thread I didn't expect to see such a level-headed debate, based on previous threads on the same topic.

Just so people know, the 600 000 population that somebody posted is completely inaccurate. The Metropolitan Vancouver area has 2.3 million people. It's also a very diverse city from a cultural standpoint. Sure, it's a hockey town but there's also a thriving urban scene. Hip hop, graffiti, street ball, all of these things are very relevant. Also, British Columbia has produced some of the best players in Canadian history (which, I fully understand, does NOT hold a ton of water as an argument, haha). I think with proper ownership and decent uniforms (sorry, Grizz faithful) there's no reason Van couldn't sustain a team.
I do believe that Seattle needs a team back. If they can get their **** together and build an arena you'll hear no complaints if a second Canadian team is put on the back burner

rhymeratic
04-18-2012, 01:25 PM
New Jersey anyone....

THE GIPPER
04-18-2012, 01:27 PM
When I opened this thread I didn't expect to see such a level-headed debate, based on previous threads on the same topic.

Just so people know, the 600 000 population that somebody posted is completely inaccurate. The Metropolitan Vancouver area has 2.3 million people. It's also a very diverse city from a cultural standpoint. Sure, it's a hockey town but there's also a thriving urban scene. Hip hop, graffiti, street ball, all of these things are very relevant. Also, British Columbia has produced some of the best players in Canadian history (which, I fully understand, does NOT hold a ton of water as an argument, haha). I think with proper ownership and decent uniforms (sorry, Grizz faithful) there's no reason Van couldn't sustain a team.
I do believe that Seattle needs a team back. If they can get their **** together and build an arena you'll hear no complaints if a second Canadian team is put on the back burner

I dont think that even includes Abbotsford/Chilliwak.


EDIT: I loved the old grizz unis!! Has anyone else noticed all the Vancouver Grizzlies snap-backs that are everywhere now? Maybe its just a northwest thing but I even saw a few in San Diego this winter.

C_Mund
04-18-2012, 01:34 PM
I dont think that even includes Abbotsford/Chilliwak.


EDIT: I loved the old grizz unis!! Has anyone else noticed all the Vancouver Grizzlies snap-backs that are everywhere now? Maybe its just a northwest thing but I even saw a few in San Diego this winter.

I like the old uni's as a throwback but I couldn't do the teal with the tribal trim again, haha. Thinking about Big Country lumbering down the court in those short shorts.... man, that was just bad for basketball

Muttman73
04-18-2012, 01:56 PM
Vancouver redux?

Grizzlies anyone?

SluggeR
04-18-2012, 01:56 PM
Terrible idea. Top notch drafted talent are not going to re-sign with a vancouver franchise and top notch FA's definitely aint coming. If the kings should go any where, it should be to Seattle and bring the Super Sonics back to life.

mjt20mik
04-18-2012, 01:59 PM
Terrible idea. Top notch drafted talent are not going to re-sign with a vancouver franchise and top notch FA's definitely aint coming. If the kings should go any where, it should be to Seattle and bring the Super Sonics back to life.

Have you been to vancouver? I don't think you speak on behalf of top notch drafted talent.

:facepalm:

smith&wesson
04-18-2012, 02:03 PM
When I opened this thread I didn't expect to see such a level-headed debate, based on previous threads on the same topic.

i agree. and although thekmp211 was mis informed about a few things he did keep it classy and respectfull in expressing his stance.

rhymeratic
04-18-2012, 02:11 PM
Vancouver is a beautiful city... same as Toronto. The problem is NOT about the cities... it's about $$$ and half the league that has criminal records makes it harder for them to get cleared past customs. If I recall.... Delonte West couldnt play in a game in Toronto recently.

On top of that, there are issues with conversion rates $$$ wise. I believe if memory serves me right you make less money out there because of that. I think they need to figure out the provisions on that first and foremost.

Also I feel like talent wise the league is spread out thinly... do we really need another bad team like the Bobcats.... If we removed the Bobcats from the NBA, at least 8 players on that team wouldn't have an NBA job ANYWHERE.

In fact just look at these rosters...
Wizards
Bobcats
Raptors
Nets
Cavs


Those teams right there are predominatly D-League talent. Imagine what adding additional teams will do to the league.

Kings are better served moving to:

1. New Jersey - there was nothing really wrong with Jersey and they already have recently built Arena (geared more towards hockey BUT still viable in Prudential Center). Nets owners just wanted to move team to BK... Tri-State can handle a 3rd squad easy.
2. Seattle - The other LOGICAL place
3. Vancouver - Probably as expansion team
4. Las Vegas - Probably as expansion team
5. Connecticut - (Sun do well in WNBA and once again, tri-state can handle 3rd team. UCONN shows CT is basketball crazy and you can stick them in Hartford or Mohegan Sun arena).

NYMetropolitans
04-18-2012, 02:16 PM
I think it would be good for the NBA. More teams in Canada or no teams at all in my opinion, having just one is odd.

NYMetropolitans
04-18-2012, 02:21 PM
Vancouver is a beautiful city... same as Toronto. The problem is NOT about the cities... it's about $$$ and half the league that has criminal records makes it harder for them to get cleared past customs. If I recall.... Delonte West couldnt play in a game in Toronto recently.

On top of that, there are issues with conversion rates $$$ wise. I believe if memory serves me right you make less money out there because of that. I think they need to figure out the provisions on that first and foremost.

Also I feel like talent wise the league is spread out thinly... do we really need another bad team like the Bobcats.... If we removed the Bobcats from the NBA, at least 8 players on that team wouldn't have an NBA job ANYWHERE.

In fact just look at these rosters...
Wizards
Bobcats
Raptors
Nets
Cavs


Those teams right there are predominatly D-League talent. Imagine what adding additional teams will do to the league.

Kings are better served moving to:

1. New Jersey - there was nothing really wrong with Jersey and they already have recently built Arena (geared more towards hockey BUT still viable in Prudential Center). Nets owners just wanted to move team to BK... Tri-State can handle a 3rd squad easy.
2. Seattle - The other LOGICAL place
3. Vancouver - Probably as expansion team
4. Las Vegas - Probably as expansion team
5. Connecticut - (Sun do well in WNBA and once again, tri-state can handle 3rd team. UCONN shows CT is basketball crazy and you can stick them in Hartford or Mohegan Sun arena).

I don't agree with your CT or NJ logic. The Nets fans will follow the team to BK, and most Connecticutians are either Nets or Knicks fans so I don't see why they would follow their CT NBA team when they already have that and UConn basketball. If I would put it anywhere on the East Coast I'd probably stick them in Baltimore.

sep11ie
04-18-2012, 02:22 PM
Why do leagues keep rewarding cities that fail?

mjt20mik
04-18-2012, 02:25 PM
Why do leagues keep rewarding cities that fail?

Have you not read a single post on this thread addressing that issue?

BTG50EAGLE
04-18-2012, 02:26 PM
Nice to see most people support the idea
If we have another chance with an owner who is actually committed to the city, I know a team would flourish in this city, people love their basketball here.

SpaceJamJordans
04-18-2012, 02:29 PM
i don't know... in my mind i don't even think that the NBA players that play in toronto like playing in Canada. I made a thread about it earlier but that's just my opinion

BTG50EAGLE
04-18-2012, 02:37 PM
I understand that and I feel its true as well.
But whatever, I know myself and many other basketball fans here in Vancouver could care less whos on the team, we dont care if they suck as much as the Raptors, we just want a team again. We would support them regardless of where they sit in the standings.
They sucked when the Grizzlies were here but the building was still relatively full most nights.
Just the fact that guys like Lebron, Kobe, Rose, Griffin etc. will be coming will fill out the stadium.

smith&wesson
04-18-2012, 02:37 PM
i don't know... in my mind i don't even think that the NBA players that play in toronto like playing in Canada. I made a thread about it earlier but that's just my opinion

Only players in raptor history who actually had a problem with playing in toronto were a.davis and tmac.

a.davis because he wanted his children to be brought up in the united states learning about american history so his reasons were personal and nothing to do with the actual city of toronto.

tmac has since admitted that he wouldnt have a problem with going back to toronto and has thought of what could have been had he stayed here with carter. Id provide a link but i dont have one this was on a local radio broad cast.

also shaq has a condo here in toronto, vince carter still has resto's and clubs here in toronto.

players dont like being here because the team sux. has nothing to do with the city itself. its cold here yes but no colder then chicago, clevland, new york etc. if the team had a winning culture im sure players wouldnt mind playing here as they dont mind playing in oklahoma because they are a good team.

mjt20mik
04-18-2012, 02:39 PM
Vancouver is a beautiful city... same as Toronto. The problem is NOT about the cities... it's about $$$ and half the league that has criminal records makes it harder for them to get cleared past customs. If I recall.... Delonte West couldnt play in a game in Toronto recently.

On top of that, there are issues with conversion rates $$$ wise. I believe if memory serves me right you make less money out there because of that. I think they need to figure out the provisions on that first and foremost.



Nope. There is a tax issue but the team compensates players for that, so there are no monetary issues.

smith&wesson
04-18-2012, 02:39 PM
if there is a team in vancouver i can see nash being a big suporter in trying to make sure it sticks this time. nash has a huge following in vancouver and has made the sport alot more popular in canada in general.

sep11ie
04-18-2012, 02:42 PM
Have you not read a single post on this thread addressing that issue?

Nope, not one. If I did do you think I would have asked?

mjt20mik
04-18-2012, 03:41 PM
Nope, not one. If I did do you think I would have asked?

lol.

They failed due to management issues and issues related to the owner at the time. Let's not forget, it does take patience and time to build a team through drafting (especially a expansion team).

During the 5 years the Grizzles were in Vancouver, they were horrendous. Management did a terrible job drafting players, and the team was all over the place.

With regards to fan support and attendance, Vancouver had decent numbers for the first couple of years, but fell off the last 2 years due to the lockout and poor performance.


Year Total Avg
2000-01 563,218 13,737
1999-00 569,864 13,899
1998-99 417,966 16,719
1997-98 660,457 16,109
1996-97 679,422 16,571
1995-96 704,489 17,183

Now, it may seem like it failed due to the last 2 years, but if you look at the numbers in Memphis, from 01 - 10, the average has been much worse than that of Vancouver. For example, in 07-08 and 08-09, the average attendance was a little less than 13k.

LINK: http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=mem&lg=n

NoahH
04-18-2012, 04:50 PM
Has anyone thought about maybe a Seattle/Vancouver join team? Like the Northwest Kings? Just a thought IDK the logistics behind it but maybe split the home games half at Rogers Arena half in Seattle or something? This might make financially no sense but Im just curious

heyman321
04-18-2012, 05:21 PM
Has anyone thought about maybe a Seattle/Vancouver join team? Like the Northwest Kings? Just a thought IDK the logistics behind it but maybe split the home games half at Rogers Arena half in Seattle or something? This might make financially no sense but Im just curious

That is too much of a hassle considering they would have to cross customs each time. Vancouver and Seattle should both get seperate teams. Relocate Sac to Vancouver and the Bobcats to Seattle.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
04-18-2012, 05:36 PM
Seriously. How do the Bobcats exist in CHARLOTTE and the Bucks exist in Milwaukee but Vancouver and Seattle don't have a team? :confused:

I even question the existence of the Hawks in Atlanta :hide: Why ya calling Milwaukee out for? Yeah our numbers are down this year. Still ahead of plenty of other teams. Besides Bucks are a old franchise way before the ABA merger. Kohl been win now like forever even though he should of tanked a few seasons when we needed picks. But Kohl did one thing right and not sell to Jordan cause the rumor was he was gonna move them to Vegas. Kohl wont sell the Bucks if the new owner wants to move them. He will only sell to a local owner.

C_Mund
04-18-2012, 05:44 PM
i don't know... in my mind i don't even think that the NBA players that play in toronto like playing in Canada. I made a thread about it earlier but that's just my opinion

I know for sure that a few ex-Raptors said they didn't like the cold. That wouldn't be the case in Van. Also, seeing as there's another thread about athletes smoking weed, maybe one of British Columbia's biggest industries might give somebody a reason to stick around....

TeamSeattle
04-18-2012, 06:25 PM
How is Vancouver a better place than Seattle? Canada already has there one team in the Raptors & they have never been any good. Bring the glory back to my home city already, we need NBA back!

THE GIPPER
04-18-2012, 06:53 PM
How is Vancouver a better place than Seattle? Canada already has there one team in the Raptors & they have never been any good. Bring the glory back to my home city already, we need NBA back!

It probably isnt but Seattle needs a new Arena. Thats the only thing holding them back at this point.

THE GIPPER
04-18-2012, 06:54 PM
I know for sure that a few ex-Raptors said they didn't like the cold. That wouldn't be the case in Van. Also, seeing as there's another thread about athletes smoking weed, maybe one of British Columbia's biggest industries might give somebody a reason to stick around....

Lol I was thinking the same thing

thekmp211
04-19-2012, 12:25 AM
When I opened this thread I didn't expect to see such a level-headed debate, based on previous threads on the same topic.

Just so people know, the 600 000 population that somebody posted is completely inaccurate. The Metropolitan Vancouver area has 2.3 million people. It's also a very diverse city from a cultural standpoint. Sure, it's a hockey town but there's also a thriving urban scene. Hip hop, graffiti, street ball, all of these things are very relevant. Also, British Columbia has produced some of the best players in Canadian history (which, I fully understand, does NOT hold a ton of water as an argument, haha). I think with proper ownership and decent uniforms (sorry, Grizz faithful) there's no reason Van couldn't sustain a team.
I do believe that Seattle needs a team back. If they can get their **** together and build an arena you'll hear no complaints if a second Canadian team is put on the back burner

it's mostly this stuff. sad fact is that it hashed out the way it did the first time. certainly doesn't predispose a well run franchise from succeeding there, though. i guess it's a matter of what the league is looking from in an nba city right now.



i agree. and although thekmp211 was mis informed about a few things he did keep it classy and respectfull in expressing his stance.

thanks. i think generally most non-grizzlies fans got a pretty one-sided impression of how things went down. players didn't like the idea, there were some TERRIBLE decisions made (like wow...really really bad. look at bryant reeves and then tell me the league isn't in a magical place talent-wise, jesus) and it seemed almost reasonable for heisley to want to escape to an american city.

being older now obviously you understand where some of the blame falls when a team is run poorly. it seems as if some unfavorable demographical issues wouldn't be as big a problem. i do think players are more mature about home cities, although i'd bet that a majority of nba players would still scoff at playing in canada, which is dumb but then again so are they.

edit: you can blaze in vancouver? in that case i'm not sure why it's not the capital city of basketball the sport as a whole.

lakersfan01
04-19-2012, 12:30 AM
Vancouver are you kidding me haha. Las Vegas.

topdog
04-19-2012, 12:39 AM
I'm just thinking how hilarious it would be to see this Kings team in Vancouver. I smell a reality show!

IversonIsKrazy
04-19-2012, 02:41 AM
Please let this happen. Vancouver has grown a huge basketball fan base, with the right management like Aquilini, it can be a success. A Vancouver based NBA team can be huge, and really hope it happens.