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View Full Version : JVan Gundy's Flop Rant 4/15



xk4
04-15-2012, 04:58 PM
http://www.rantsports.com/courtcrusades/2012/04/15/video-jeff-van-gundy-rants-about-flopping-during-heat-knicks-game/

Some of you must have heard it this morning, made me :laugh2:. He just goes on and on

But I think it's awesome he's getting after the league about this. It's becoming a huge problem.

Any of you guys have creative solutions for the flopping problem?

b@llhog24
04-15-2012, 05:01 PM
Can he get fined for this?

k.smith904
04-15-2012, 05:01 PM
theres no need for creative solutions.

A technical foul will end the blatant **** quicker than Blake Griffin can cry about it.

gaughan333
04-15-2012, 05:02 PM
I agree with him entirely. If you really want to get rid of flopping, anytime someone flops it should be a delay of game technical.

gaughan333
04-15-2012, 05:04 PM
theres no need for creative solutions.

A technical foul will end the blatant **** quicker than Blake Griffin can cry about it.

He has become my least favorite player in the NBA

NYKnicks4511
04-15-2012, 05:24 PM
Blake fell off with me quick. The whole dunk + exaggerated staredown ritual got old, fast.

xxplayerxx23
04-15-2012, 05:27 PM
that play was a flop and it was crazy, but funny he went nuts lol ripped into stern too so funny

Evolution23
04-15-2012, 05:31 PM
This isn't just about the Heat although they tend to get a lot of calls because of their superstars. The problem goes beyond flopping and the league needs to get be more consistent with their calls.

justinnum1
04-15-2012, 05:34 PM
He has become my least favorite player in the NBA

Diwght is up there too...

NYSpirit1
04-15-2012, 05:37 PM
Yeah, he's completely right.

This killed the game today - completely. The Knicks would have been within three at 60-57, instead the Heat came back and went up 10. The Heat got calls like that all day long though.

It's amazing how much refs can take the life out of the entire building.

Broadwayjoe NY
04-15-2012, 05:39 PM
JVG has been on the mission to end flopping for years now; he routinely calls out the league and most notably stern for not doing anything about it. I agree that it would be quite subjective to police, but then again, so are technicals.

Let's just nip it in the bud right here before it gets started, this is not about the Heat or Blake Griffen, this is about the integrity and just overall play of the game we love. It's definitely ruining it in his, and many others', opinion and I hope they do something about it, but I doubt it.

KnicksSoxFan69
04-15-2012, 05:42 PM
Agree

Teams like the Heat and Bulls flop so much

All they do is flop

Heat suck

justinnum1
04-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Yeah, he's completely right.

This killed the game today - completely. The Knicks would have been within three at 60-57, instead the Heat came back and went up 10. The Heat got calls like that all day long though.

It's amazing how much refs can take the life out of the entire building.

LMFAO, melo got away with using his off arm to create space at least 5 times, come on bro. Dont blame the refs. Not to mention that one time melo bull dozed over battier and they called it a block, that was bull ****

CoffeeJanitor
04-15-2012, 05:53 PM
I love JVG's rants. While I do think flops can be subjective, sometimes its blatantly obvious when a guy is faking it. In this case, I think that there was a pushoff, and the defender was just making sure the ref saw it. Hopefully they can get rid of it in the future, or at least try to.

YoungOne
04-15-2012, 05:53 PM
punish them via video evidence after the game.

Silent
04-15-2012, 06:04 PM
Agree

Teams like the Heat and Bulls flop so much

All they do is flop

Heat suck


U mad?????????

Its called Defense that's why there both top 5

smith&wesson
04-15-2012, 06:17 PM
blake fell off with me quick. The whole dunk + exaggerated staredown ritual got old, fast.

+1

Punk
04-15-2012, 06:19 PM
It's not so much about flopping but the refs are just awful this season. I watched Brandon Bass go over Kris Humphrie's back VERY VERY obviously for a rebound and shoved him and no call.

Then Greg Stiesma or whatever, grabs Jordan Williams arm going for a rebound and no call either.

Then Deron gets called for a touch foul on Pierce.

Calls like that is what ruins the game. Flip flopping with contact.

MTL_123
04-15-2012, 06:21 PM
Yeah, he's completely right.

This killed the game today - completely. The Knicks would have been within three at 60-57, instead the Heat came back and went up 10. The Heat got calls like that all day long though.

It's amazing how much refs can take the life out of the entire building.

:facepalm: wow i guess u didnt see how melo was always pushing people off with his arm to get space be happy that the game wasnt called fair if it was miami probably would have won by more

TheNumber37
04-15-2012, 06:23 PM
Epic. And they tried to silence him.

llemon
04-15-2012, 06:25 PM
JVG is unbearable to listen to.

BigBlueCrew
04-15-2012, 06:30 PM
:facepalm: wow i guess u didnt see how melo was always pushing people off with his arm to get space be happy that the game wasnt called fair if it was miami probably would have won by more

Everyone does that push off move, when the hell did Melo become the only one, On PSD?

TheNumber37
04-15-2012, 06:36 PM
Flopping is an issue. I think in order for the issue to really be solved, it's the FANS that have to really speak out for the sake of the game.
It's simple, Technical Foul, which would really take it away as an option in late games. After a certain number, fines... it is an integrity of the game issue, bad sportsmanship.
It only works if the ref has to call it and then someone else (Refs on opposite end of the floor or even better, JVG) has to review the video and determine if a flop was committed.
2 shots and the ball.

Ultimately, flopping will not be eliminated. But i wish that it would whittle down to slightly exaggerating the contact. If you take a decent hit but it's not necessarily enough to knock you down, but you stumble; you have the right to fall down to enhance perception of a good call. It's like the Defensive version of "Continuation". That I wouldn't mind, cause it would be more or less seamless. At least taking away the obvious flops.

llemon
04-15-2012, 06:48 PM
Everyone does that push off move, when the hell did Melo become the only one, On PSD?

So, you don't think the 'pushoff' should be called.

Personally, if I were coaching a team, and 'Melo (or ANY other player) was using the 'pushoff' as a major part of their offensive arsenal against my team, I would tell my player defending him (and I would make it a particularly strong player for a series of plays) to come down hard on the offensive player's arm (as if the defender was pushing the offensive player's arm off of him), but add a little (or a lot) more strength and viciousness.

Get called for a foul or two, but make the offensive player think about the next time he is going to push off.

Sorry, but I'm old school.

BigBlueCrew
04-15-2012, 06:52 PM
So, you don't think the 'pushoff' should be called.

Personally, if I were coaching a team, and 'Melo (or ANY other player) was using the 'pushoff' as a major part of their offensive arsenal against my team, I would tell my player defending him (and I would make it a particularly strong player for a series of plays) to come down hard on the offensive player's arm (as if the defender was pushing the offensive player's arm off of him), but add a little (or a lot) more strength and viciousness.

Get called for a foul or two, but make the offensive player think about the next time he is going to push off.

Sorry, but I'm old school.

only if you think there are NOT enough whistles in the game....

Look everyone does it, from Melo, Lebron Dwade, to the great Michael Jordan, who used to do all the time. So please lets cut the crap that Melo is starting some kinda revolutionary move here with his push off. Its nothing new. I dont get why its being brought up.

mjt20mik
04-15-2012, 06:55 PM
Well to be honest, basketball is a finesse sport now. It's clearly not a game of toughness like it was before.

The Final Boss
04-15-2012, 07:02 PM
Lebron.

llemon
04-15-2012, 07:04 PM
only if you think there are NOT enough whistles in the game....

Look everyone does it, from Melo, Lebron Dwade, to the great Michael Jordan, who used to do all the time. So please lets cut the crap that Melo is starting some kinda revolutionary move here with his push off. Its nothing new. I dont get why its being brought up.

LOL!!! Yeah, I said it was revolutionary.

Wise up kid. I was just explaining how to get an offensive player to stop pushing off.

I've been following the NBA since Wilt was a San Francisco Warrior, and the principle is to win, and you do what yo have to win.

Offensive players push off so that their teams have a better chance to win.

Defensive players should be willing to fracture that offensive player's forearm to give their team a better chance to win.

BigBlueCrew
04-15-2012, 07:15 PM
LOL!!! Yeah, I said it was revolutionary.

Wise up kid. I was just explaining how to get an offensive player to stop pushing off.

I've been following the NBA since Wilt was a San Francisco Warrior, and the principle is to win, and you do what yo have to win.

Offensive players push off so that their teams have a better chance to win.

Defensive players should be willing to fracture that offensive player's forearm to give their team a better chance to win.

If that's the case then you should be equally riled up against the non called traveling calls. That could a bigger issue

Pushing off is such a non-issue

Raph12
04-15-2012, 07:55 PM
That would be awesome, guys would be afraid of flopping, it would make the game so much better.

Cubby
04-15-2012, 07:59 PM
:facepalm: wow i guess u didnt see how melo was always pushing people off with his arm to get space be happy that the game wasnt called fair if it was miami probably would have won by more

You ***** about him *****ing about the refs, but then you begin to ***** about the calling as well. Logic.

torocan
04-15-2012, 08:03 PM
Do it like the NFL.

Gives coaches a fixed number of video review challenges per game, like 3 per game.

Then make flopping a 1 warning then Technical call.

That would fix floppin pretty fast, and take some of the game out of the ref's somewhat subjective hands.

Cubby
04-15-2012, 08:23 PM
Flopping really has no place in the game.

new york blue
04-15-2012, 08:26 PM
Why not just call flops? They give yellow cards in soccer--unclear why they can not penalize it in the NBA.

NYSPORTSALLDAY
04-15-2012, 08:39 PM
Its pathetic what is considered a foul now a days

NetsPaint
04-15-2012, 08:44 PM
I don't think flopping should be counted as a technical, but the players should be fined.

I want JVG to go on a carrying rant. Almost every player in the league does it on almost ever possession and it's never called.

Vinylman
04-15-2012, 08:59 PM
The only way to really get rid of it is through a review / fining system...

flops 1-3 $10k per
flops 4-6 $35k per
flops 7-10 $75k per & 1 game suspension

It would be no different than review of flagrants

Cubby
04-15-2012, 09:07 PM
I don't think flopping should be counted as a technical, but the players should be fined.

I want JVG to go on a carrying rant. Almost every player in the league does it on almost ever possession and it's never called.

Because more often than not, carrying has no effect on the game. Flopping can completely change the game, and it does.

llemon
04-15-2012, 11:19 PM
Because more often than not, carrying has no effect on the game. Flopping can completely change the game, and it does.

Carrying the basketball has no effect on the game?

DragonJaii
04-16-2012, 01:22 AM
punish them via video evidence after the game.

i agree with this.

Cubby
04-16-2012, 01:26 AM
Carrying the basketball has no effect on the game?

More than flopping? Hell no. Honestly, I mainly see carrying when a player is dribbling down court. That doesn't effect the game.

UPRock
04-16-2012, 01:36 AM
He said the truth, nuff said.

shep33
04-16-2012, 01:38 AM
How awesome would a JVG and SVG team be on ESPN/ABC games?

heyman321
04-16-2012, 01:40 AM
The man speaks the truth.

BallIsAll
04-16-2012, 03:34 AM
If that's the case then you should be equally riled up against the non called traveling calls. That could a bigger issue

Pushing off is such a non-issue


If pushing off is a non issue neither is smacking a players hand while he shoots. Although plenty of players do it melo does it at almost every offensive drive to the basket or contested jump shot. Honestly he used to get called for it like 3 times a game in Denver and there were many times a game where it wouldn't get called. Pushing off is an offensive foul the same way touching someone's elbow or smacking their hand while shooting is a shooting foul. I saw when melo did it today in the closing minutes and so did the announcers. It's blatant and if they called it fairly on melo he wouldn't last a game in the season without fouling out.

Jesse2272
04-16-2012, 04:22 AM
This **** all year against the knicks, Jones gets the call on Shump, realy, Novak 3 should have counted

JC_
04-16-2012, 06:25 AM
This **** all year against the knicks, Jones gets the call on Shump, realy, Novak 3 should have counted

They called a zillion random offensive fouls against the Heat so that call made sense

njnets
04-16-2012, 08:35 AM
flops are a problem and something needs to be done about it. good for jvg for ranting about it.

3baller9
04-16-2012, 08:41 AM
Yeah, he's completely right.

This killed the game today - completely. The Knicks would have been within three at 60-57, instead the Heat came back and went up 10. The Heat got calls like that all day long though.

It's amazing how much refs can take the life out of the entire building.
The Knicks were up 81-80 and then score 4 points in the last 6min. The only one who was still thinking about that play was James Jones and thats cuz he got injured on the play...

3baller9
04-16-2012, 09:29 AM
I'm not sure how JVG ever got a coaching job in the NBA let alone how he lasted that long...

In my early days I never flopped and I was fighting over every screen and dived for every ball. I was playing great man to man defense but guys still managed to score on me cuz refs allowed them to use illegal tricks to get some advatage on me. At first I stayed on my feet everytime but was too late to challenge the shot and that is when I realized some moves are just unstoppable cuz refs allow offensive player to get away with some stuff that are and should be illegal. My coach said to me that I try too hard and he showed me how to take a hit and fall cuz if you don't fall they are not giving you the call which is sad but thats the way it is.

And now on the play in question. Shumpert pased the ball to Novak and then went into Jones (who I agree could have stayed on his feet) blocking him so he was unable to get to Novak and Jones simply choose to fall and got the call. The fact that Jones had no chance to get to Novak even if Shumpert stayed out of his way is unimportant.

dalton749
04-16-2012, 11:03 AM
that flop didnt deserve to spark that rant tho shumpert did run into him and it could make a case for a moving screen

ChicagoJ
04-16-2012, 04:42 PM
I agree with van gumby. It would be great to do something about the blatent flops although its been around as long as I've been watching the nba.

JasonJohnHorn
04-16-2012, 07:17 PM
Flopping is pretty annoying.

Punk
04-16-2012, 11:13 PM
Flopping is a problem but someone needs to call out the refs and the NBA.


Technical foul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5JvlPF1cJc

This is not a technical foul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQVPCYblJ5U

THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. The NBA is a joke if this is how they think officiating like this is acceptable.

You see it every single game. Touch fouls = fouls, hard fouls = no call, *points at my elbow* = technical foul.

eibbor
04-16-2012, 11:21 PM
I dunno, I think everything he said was true.

magic0320
04-16-2012, 11:46 PM
it's ref's problems for not doing their job right. fine ref see if they can do their jobs ... instead gambling

why is it players' problem playing within the rules. it's ref who can't even realize what is flop or not. fine them and suspend them i am sure they will get it right or better than now.

Patman
04-17-2012, 02:47 AM
The rant was a bit over the top. On that play that was an illegal Screen in my opinion, there was a Flop on it but still the call was ok in my book. The prblem is if you don't flop on the defensive end the chances are you get a blocking foul or a non call even though the offensive player pushed off or burried his shoulder in your chest.

For me I'd like them to call the stiff arm many offensive player use (Melo is a master at that) oh and the little push offs with the elbows and the jumping into players on a drive...

There are so many inconsitencies in how the game is called and it also seems to depend on who you are.

Sssmush
04-17-2012, 03:46 AM
The easy solution, is just tell the refs to really keep an eye out for flopping, and don't call the foul, just let them play through.

The idea about calling technicals and fining players for flopping is a bit ridiculous, but there's nothing to stop the refs from just flat out not calling the foul on a flop. For that matter, just feel free to call way less fouls in general, ESPECIALLY when there is a flop.

Right now, the refs seem to have the mindset that, hey, the guys feet were set, and then he threw himself on the ground, so by the rules of basketball, we HAVE to call something. But yeah... just tell the refs, if it's not clear contact, if it looks like a flop, then just let the player lay there on his back and whine while his opponent scores a layup and his coach yells wtf.

The players will figure it out. Right now it's built in as an accepted part of the game, so in that sense JVG is right. It's accepted now as part of the gamesmanship of being out there, and the refs are virtually awarding points for "good flops" right now.

Sssmush
04-17-2012, 03:53 AM
Also, notice that the really top players like Kobe NEVER flop, they are always playing for the ball and going for it all out. Ricky Rubio tried to flop defending Kobe and ended up out for the season.

Yeah, it's bad to get injured for the season, but it's worse if you injure yourself for the season trying to flop and pretend you were getting knocked down. Like, you throw yourself on the ground to convince the referees that you were pushed or roughed up by the opponent, so you'll get a foul or some points, and then injure yourself. Ridiculous.

Not many people ever, EVER knock Kobe down. And if they did, they earned it. Kobe won't throw himself down like that, if he sees you're going to draw the charge on him he probably just lower his shoulder and let you have it, or if he defending you he will take those free throws out of your hide. Or he'll just try to make the shot or steal the ball. In general I think that Lakers and Phil Jackson players rarely try to fall back on the refs and rely on the refs to bail them out anyway. With the exception of Fisher, of course, who has now brought his act to OKC and good riddance really.

But Kobe seems to make it a point of serious pride.

xk4
04-17-2012, 04:16 AM
Can't disagree with that. The real, fiery competitors don't fall down on purpose, they go for steals, blocks, dive out of bounds, etc

Ideally it would be solved by players showing some integrity instead of trying to exploit the weaker parts of the rule book.

And I had no idea Rubio was hurt that way. Embarassing. I mean, if I went and threw myself down on my kitchen floor 5-10 times a day the bumps and bruises would probably start to add up after a while. That's why I have respect for the players who are willing to take full speed charges to protect the basket. But if you're hitting the floor, make it count for something other than a cheap turnover and then wink to your pals on the bench. Flopping just proves you're kind of a coward

Knicks21
04-17-2012, 04:59 AM
If pushing off is a non issue neither is smacking a players hand while he shoots. Although plenty of players do it melo does it at almost every offensive drive to the basket or contested jump shot. Honestly he used to get called for it like 3 times a game in Denver and there were many times a game where it wouldn't get called. Pushing off is an offensive foul the same way touching someone's elbow or smacking their hand while shooting is a shooting foul. I saw when melo did it today in the closing minutes and so did the announcers. It's blatant and if they called it fairly on melo he wouldn't last a game in the season without fouling out.

Im sure if they called it once in a game he would stop. If the ref doesn't call it, for any player on any team, why stop doing it if it gives you an advantage?. JR Smith does it a heck of a lot more than melo does on his step back, but yet they don't call it.

amos1er
04-17-2012, 05:15 AM
Stan is absolutely right. The league does not want to stop flopping as it is in their best interest to use it to their advantage to control the outcome of games.

He is also right by saying that they could stop it if they wanted to, they just don't. Basketball is already the most objective sport there is, now enter flopping into the equation, and you now give David Stern and his trained Zebra's even more control in rigging games.

I can't even imagine how many wins that Anderson Varejao must have gotten the Cavs through his flopping. He was after all second in the league only to Lebron in plus/minus those years the Cavs were the number one seed. We all know it wasn't due to his prowess on the court...lol Couldn't have had anything to do with his reign as NBA flopper of the year back in 2009 and 2010 or anything could it? Just something to think about.

Sssmush
04-17-2012, 09:01 AM
Can't disagree with that. The real, fiery competitors don't fall down on purpose, they go for steals, blocks, dive out of bounds, etc

Ideally it would be solved by players showing some integrity instead of trying to exploit the weaker parts of the rule book.

And I had no idea Rubio was hurt that way. Embarassing. I mean, if I went and threw myself down on my kitchen floor 5-10 times a day the bumps and bruises would probably start to add up after a while. That's why I have respect for the players who are willing to take full speed charges to protect the basket. But if you're hitting the floor, make it count for something other than a cheap turnover and then wink to your pals on the bench. Flopping just proves you're kind of a coward

well, it's not totally proven that Rubio was flopping on that play, but if you watch the replay you can see that he tries to slide in under Kobe, like to get position on him off balance, so that if Kobe doesn't stop his dribble it would draw a charge or something. As he slides in and Kobe is driving, his leg seems to get stuck in a weird position.

I mean some people disagree, but if you are simply trying to stop Kobe or make a steal or play on the ball, and not constantly playing to the referees then I don't think you put yourself off balance in front of the driving player, like daring him to knock you over. I guess it's part of the game, but it kind of gets back to why the heck do they call so many fouls every game anyway.
And then some of the fouls are "flops"... wtf. The refs are too much a part of the game.

iliketurtles24
04-17-2012, 09:25 AM
100 million dollar fine for each flop, that would make sure it never happens again.

iliketurtles24
04-17-2012, 09:28 AM
theres no need for creative solutions.

A technical foul will end the blatant **** quicker than Blake Griffin can cry about it.

funny, but i think he could get his wine in first. He has a lot of practice and is very good at it.