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View Full Version : Mamba's Lone Strike: How Can Kobe Have Only One MVP?



amos1er
04-13-2012, 09:42 PM
http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2011-12/index.html


Mamba's Lone Strike
April 13 -- Years from now, long after his quest for a all-time greatness is over, his legacy is cemented and his face plastered alongside the NBA's Mt. Rushmore with the other greats, someone will have to explain to the next generation how this happened.

Someone will have to explain how it came to be that Kobe Bean Bryant finished his storied career among the best of the best in almost every conceivable category of note, how he piled up championships, points, All-NBA honors, All-Star nods and Olympic gold medals and all of the other prizes the legends do, but has just one Most Valuable Player award.

Some poor soul will have to flip through the pages of history (or more appropriately, click through them) and explain why 2008 was the only year that the player who could very well go down as one of the two or three greatest players in league history, was duly recognized as the king of the (regular season) hill just once.

A hoops historian will have to try and explain why a man who spent a decade-plus as a first team All-NBA pick was the captain of that team just once. How did he finish his career with more MVP trophies from The Finals (2) and three times as many All-Star Game MVP trophies (4) on his mantle than he did MVP trophies?

Bryant will watch someone else walk away with the award once again this season, likely either LeBron James or Kevin Durant. They've led the way in the KIA Race to the MVP Ladder all season and will no doubt finish this season there on most people's officials ballots.

Bryant will most likely finish a strong third, the same spot he has held down all season on our list. But that doesn't mean we're comfortable toying with his legacy in this way. He is leading the league in scoring and is fourth in minutes played in this, his 16th season. Both are unbelievable feats when you consider the amount of mileage on his body (playoff minutes included).

For all of the things Bryant has been able to control on the floor, for all of the outcomes he's been able to manipulate with a crossover dribble, a late-game dagger, a simple flick of his wrist, this is one that he'll have to grin and bear as others mark the final score.

Lucky for him and his legacy, MVP trophies alone do not decide one's place among the best of the all-time best. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won a record six MVP trophies, Bill Russell and Michael Jordan five each, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Moses Malone three each, while Bob Pettit, Karl Malone and Tim Duncan won two each. Suns point guard Steve Nash has two, one that could have (and some would argue should have) gone to Bryant. James already has two and could add a handful more before he's done. And Durant is looking for his first of what could be several as well.

Bryant, though, will have to suffer the same MVP travesty as his one-time running mate and nemesis Shaquille O'Neal. One-and-done MVPs.

Whether they were victims of circumstance or some other forces that prevented them from being feted properly is another discussion altogether. But the results remains the same, they are one and done.

And it seems as ridiculous now as it will for generations to come!

(Since we can't rank the entire Bulls team No. 1, we'll just go with our usual rankings from this point on!)

Surely Kobe deserves more than one MVP...Out of all the all time greats, he has been robbed the most. Maybe its because of the Colorado incident, or maybe its just typical Laker jealousy. Whatever it is, its a travesty that a player of Kobe's caliber has only one MVP to speak of.

shep33
04-13-2012, 09:44 PM
It's amazing that he and Shaq only have two combined. Anyways, it doesn't really matter.

Both those guys' greatness is noted in NBA history.

iam brett favre
04-13-2012, 09:44 PM
Because he's a chucker :shrug:

tredigs
04-13-2012, 09:45 PM
The real travesty is that he's ranked #3 in MVP voting this season.

Hawkeye15
04-13-2012, 09:46 PM
I have long talked about my distaste for the inconsistencies of the MVP award. That being said, you can't make an argument with no holes that Kobe Bryant was ever THE best player in any given year.

Please don't confuse my statement with agreeing that he doesn't deserve more than 1 however. Steve ****ing Nash won 2. Really???

ManRam
04-13-2012, 09:49 PM
Because he wasn't really ever the clear cut best player in any single season :shrug: Top 3 year after year, which is an AMAZING feat...but there were players basically each and every year, even his MVP year, that had better seasons...

amos1er
04-13-2012, 09:50 PM
It's amazing that he and Shaq only have two combined. Anyways, it doesn't really matter.

Both those guys' greatness is noted in NBA history.

Good point. Can't believe that a guy as talented as Shaq only has one and Lebron already has 2.

We can probably attribute some Laker hate to Kobe and Shaq only having one MVP each. The award loses credibility to me when I think about the fact that Shaq and Kobe have only won it once.

Guess the price of success results in some regular season MVP award hating. :D

amos1er
04-13-2012, 09:52 PM
Because he wasn't really ever the clear cut best player in any single season :shrug: Top 3 year after year, which is an AMAZING feat...but there were players basically each and every year, even his MVP year, that had better seasons...

lol...From 2001 till 2009 Kobe was hands down the best player in the league.

Kobe not getting it in 2006 is a joke and you know it.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-13-2012, 09:55 PM
Maybe he wasn't the best in other seasons? :shrug:

mdm692
04-13-2012, 09:55 PM
How is it a travesty he can probably win one more and he has a couple of mvps that really matter(finals mvp ;)). Im sure nash would trade both of his mvps for a CHANCE at a ring, kobe has 5.

mdm692
04-13-2012, 09:56 PM
Btw he is already top 10 all time and could be on par with mj if not pass him when all is done.

FraziersKnicks
04-13-2012, 09:57 PM
lol...From 2001 till 2009 Kobe was hands down the best player in the league.

Kobe not getting it in 2006 is a joke and you know it.

:laugh2:

ManRam
04-13-2012, 09:57 PM
lol...From 2001 till 2009 Kobe was hands down the best player in the league.

Kobe not getting it in 2006 is a joke and you know it.

No.

Not at all.

amos1er
04-13-2012, 09:58 PM
I have long talked about my distaste for the inconsistencies of the MVP award. That being said, you can't make an argument with no holes that Kobe Bryant was ever THE best player in any given year.

Please don't confuse my statement with agreeing that he doesn't deserve more than 1 however. Steve ****ing Nash won 2. Really???

An argument without holes is a pretty loose statement. I can make a pretty damn good argument that he was the best in the league from at least 2001 to 2009.

Agreed, that Steve Nash's second MVP was a joke. It was basically the NBA telling Kobe that we don't appreciate what happened in Colorado and here is us letting you know it.

amos1er
04-13-2012, 10:00 PM
No.

Not at all.

Can't argue with that. :rolleyes:

alexander_37
04-13-2012, 10:01 PM
Kobe was never the best player in the league for a full season.

tredigs
04-13-2012, 10:01 PM
Can't argue with that. :rolleyes:

Uhhh... I'd say your comment is the one that deserves some backup pimpin.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:02 PM
Good point. Can't believe that a guy as talented as Shaq only has one and Lebron already has 2.

We can probably attribute some Laker hate to Kobe and Shaq only having one MVP each. The award loses credibility to me when I think about the fact that Shaq and Kobe have only won it once.

Guess the price of success results in some regular season MVP award hating. :D


So, you think MVPs should be life time achievement awards...or awards that have to do with the playoffs...or what.

Because LeBron's two MVP seasons, and this season as well, have been better than any regular season Kobe probably has ever had. :shrug:

Kobe's legacy is rings. He's got them, and that's why he's an all time great...but there were better players than him throughout his years. KG had a few seasons better than him. Shaq did. LeBron did. Duncan did. Dirk Did. Even guys like T-Mac, Paul, etc. did.

Duncan was more deserving the two times he won them. KG and Dirk were more deserving when they won it. LeBron was the better player when he won his two...at least "in the regular season". Rose deserved it over Kobe last year. 5-6 players deserve it over him this year. Shaq deserved it over him every year Shaq was a Laker.

So, basically, you have AI's season (a weak MVP campaign) and Nash's two (weak campaigns) to get Kobe another MVP. Did he deserve it any of those three years?

I don't think you understand what the MVP award is...

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:02 PM
Can't argue with that. :rolleyes:

I've made this argument a million times...

Make yours. Tell me what years Kobe deserved another MVP award.

Hell, I'll say that he didn't even deserve it in 2008.

Top 10 player of all time, for sure. Doesn't mean he deserved more than 1 MVP...

E.O.21
04-13-2012, 10:03 PM
The MVP award stands for most "valuable" not necessarily the best player. People should stop ripping Steve Nash the guy was very valuable to his team. Plus they had the best record

jimbobjarree
04-13-2012, 10:04 PM
I still think the one he actually won should have gone to CP3

LakersIn5
04-13-2012, 10:05 PM
Maybe he wasn't the best in other seasons? :shrug:

nash was never the best.

Kobe2324
04-13-2012, 10:05 PM
Great article, the year he averaged 35.4 he was simply robbed blind, in my opinion was not even a debate, Nash's numbers were good but he put up stats that are good but not rare. Kobe put up one of the best scoring seasons of all time in an era where that jus't dosnt happen anymore, absolutely robbed. Other than that he could of arguably won another mvp award but other than that unfortunetly the mvp award is as much a team award as it is individual, the best player for over a decade will most likely finish with 1 mvp and that is just sad, he deserves so much more.

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:06 PM
It would be nice if the OP can give us a season by season break down as to why Kobe deserved the MVP over X player. OP you've really not done Kobe justice in this thread.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:06 PM
I still think the one he actually won should have gone to CP3

X2...

It's not a knock on Kobe. Being as elite as he has been for as long as he's been...and winning as much as he has...is why he's going to go down as an all time great. 1 MVP doesn't mean anything....

It's a frivolous award :shrug: I don't get why Kobephiles get so bent out of shape over it.

If you're upset he has only won 1 of them...point to me the years that there was not a single player in the NBA that was more deserving of the award...while keeping in mind that it doesn't even necessarily mean "best player in the NBA"...

mdm692
04-13-2012, 10:07 PM
An argument without holes is a pretty loose statement. I can make a pretty damn good argument that he was the best in the league from at least 2001 to 2009.

Agreed, that Steve Nash's second MVP was a joke. It was basically the NBA telling Kobe that we don't appreciate what happened in Colorado and here is us letting you know it.

im sorry but are we really going to say nash's second mvp was a joke. In 05-06 nash lost stat to injury and joe johnson and richardson to trades ended up with a roster that looked like:
Nash/scrub
Bell/barbosa
Marion/scrub
Diaw/tim thomas
Kurt thomas/scrub
And led the team to one of the best records in the nba and in the process turned diaw into the MIP. Yes kobe had an argument as did lebron but the records of theor respective teams is why they lost. But ok ill play along with kobe deserving the 06 mvp, so if were going that route nash deserved the mvp that dirk won, and cp3 deserved the one kobe won so either way nash deserved 2.

JordansBulls
04-13-2012, 10:07 PM
I don't get how anyone in there right mind can say Kobe was the best player in 2005 when his team didn't even make the playoffs and he barely even made 3rd team.

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:08 PM
his face plastered alongside the NBA's Mt. Rushmore with the other greats

Am what? :confused:

I take it the article means other Laker greats right and that was just a typo.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:09 PM
Great article, the year he averaged 35.4 he was simply robbed blind, in my opinion was not even a debate, Nash's numbers were good but he put up stats that are good but not rare. Kobe put up one of the best scoring seasons of all time in an era where that jus't dosnt happen anymore, absolutely robbed. Other than that he could of arguably won another mvp award but other than that unfortunetly the mvp award is as much a team award as it is individual, the best player for over a decade will most likely finish with 1 mvp and that is just sad, he deserves so much more.

And, we all know why he didn't win it: the 7 seed.

Look at guys like JB...they think guys like LeBron, who was and still is having a historic season (was on pace to break the all time PER and WS/48 records) doesn't deserve it because the Heat might finish with the SECOND seed, let alone the 7th seed...

As I said, it's a frivolous award. :shrug:

With that said, I've seen players do more with as little, if not less, than Kobe did during his post-Shaq/pre-Pau season (not all of them, but one or two).

shep33
04-13-2012, 10:09 PM
I dunno, I'm a homer so I disagree with some people saying he was never the best player in a single year:

Hawkeye15
04-13-2012, 10:09 PM
An argument without holes is a pretty loose statement. I can make a pretty damn good argument that he was the best in the league from at least 2001 to 2009.

Agreed, that Steve Nash's second MVP was a joke. It was basically the NBA telling Kobe that we don't appreciate what happened in Colorado and here is us letting you know it.

I will put it this way. I can sell a better argument (I have actually) that Kobe was never THE best player in the NBA in any given year, then you can sell me he was the best for multiple years.

I will get back to you tomorrow if you wish to pursue this. And I will read your post, but if I smell homerism bias like any Laker fan trying to sell me he was THE best player for multiple seasons, I won't be replying. Been there, done that.

jimm120
04-13-2012, 10:12 PM
all I gotta say is that Kobe had some of his most dominating seasons during those seasons in which the Lakers sucked (after he forced Shaq to be ousted). No way they would give it to him considering the Lakers were sucking.

tredigs
04-13-2012, 10:14 PM
lol...From 2001 till 2009 Kobe was hands down the best player in the league.

Kobe not getting it in 2006 is a joke and you know it.

Fun fact on Kobe: Never once in his career has he cracked the top 2 in WinShares or PER (he generally hovers around 3rd to 8th). These are stats that every other player considered top ten all time have been top 2 multiple seasons at the very least.

The players who generally led these cats were Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, KG, Dirk, Cp3 and Wade.

Your comment is a joke, and frankly if anything Kobe is awarded too many yearly awards (see: consistently gifted All NBA 1st team defense to this day, which is clearly a joke).

Hawkeye15
04-13-2012, 10:15 PM
I dunno, I'm a homer so I disagree with some people saying he was never the best player in a single year:

homer :p

shep33
04-13-2012, 10:15 PM
See I disagree with him not being the best player in the game any year. That's just my opinion. There's a big difference between best player and the MVP.

Let's be honest with ourselves, if he was playing in the weak eastern conference, not only would he have better stats, but those terrible Laker squads would be higher seeds.

Just imagine if he played in the Atlantic Division... He'd get to see that Raps 4 times a year lol.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:15 PM
I dunno, I'm a homer so I disagree with some people saying he was never the best player in a single year:

If I said "best"...I might have not meant it. But I don't think it's a crazy notion to think that he was never the most deserving of an MVP award...not even once :shrug:

Just to clarify my stance. The award is weird...you get guys like AI, Nash, Rose etc. winning it when they're not at all the best players in the NBA...but that's how it works. Expectations, record, team play and so many other factors that have NOTHING to do with being the best player in the NBA have so much to do with it.

stawka
04-13-2012, 10:15 PM
Shaq only having one is much more of a travesty.

That is all

DaLakerz Rulz
04-13-2012, 10:15 PM
He only has one because he wasn't really the undisputed "best player" (however that is measured - statistics, value to team, etc) during each year over the last decade. Why should it even matter? The greater feat is that he has been playing at an elite level for over 16 years. How many players can really say that (even among the greats)?

Awards/accolades like MVP and first team offense/defense should be taken with a grain of salt IMO. Simply too subjective. Either way, give me balanced scoring and team play over pointless regular season awards any day. If only Kobe could realize that...

shep33
04-13-2012, 10:15 PM
homer :p

Total homer lol, I have to stick up for the Kobester here lol

TheWhiteMamba
04-13-2012, 10:16 PM
Because he didnt deserve more than 1?

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:17 PM
See I disagree with him not being the best player in the game any year. That's just my opinion. There's a big difference between best player and the MVP.

Let's be honest with ourselves, if he was playing in the weak eastern conference, not only would he have better stats, but those terrible Laker squads would be higher seeds.

The same can be said about KG, TD and Shaq who were all better than Kobe at various points in those down years. Though I really don't know much about the stats part.

shep33
04-13-2012, 10:18 PM
Honestly, either way does it even matter?

We look at Shaq now as one of the greatest ever, the most dominant ever, and we look past his single MVP.

To me anyways, it's not a big deal. One is fine I guess lol.

Hawkeye15
04-13-2012, 10:18 PM
See I disagree with him not being the best player in the game any year. That's just my opinion. There's a big difference between best player and the MVP.

Let's be honest with ourselves, if he was playing in the weak eastern conference, not only would he have better stats, but those terrible Laker squads would be higher seeds.

Just imagine if he played in the Atlantic Division... He'd get to see that Raps 4 times a year lol.

I sure wish my KG led Wolves were in the east during those years......

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:19 PM
Honestly, either way does it even matter?

We look at Shaq now as one of the greatest ever, the most dominant ever, and we look past his single MVP.

To me anyways, it's not a big deal. One is fine I guess lol.

A point a made earlier...

I don't get why it matters...

Especially not in this world where the "yeah...but how many rings does he have?" narrative is hammered home so strongly.

Method28
04-13-2012, 10:20 PM
The real travesty is that he's ranked #3 in MVP voting this season.

This.

amos1er
04-13-2012, 10:21 PM
Maybe he wasn't the best in other seasons? :shrug:

2001: Its between him Iverson and Shaq. After the playoffs, its clear that Kobe was the best that season as Shaq clearly admitted in the following statement: "I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."

2002: Duncan was the league MVP, but Kobe won a championship and was the better individual talent.

2003: Duncan won it again, but Kobe was clearly the better individual talent still.

2004: Kobe was now the best player in the league and was the leader of the Lakers. He took them to the finals beating the league chosen MVP Garnet in the western conference finals. Kobe was clearly the better individual talent than KG.

2005: Kobe was on a horrible team and was injured for 1/4 of the season. Still, I don't know any players that were better individually than Kobe that year. Best player in the game still. By far a better individual talent than Nash.

2006: Clearly the best in the league...scored 81 in a game, averaged 35.4 ppg, 63 in 3 quarters. Still the NBA rewarded Nash over Kobe for a second time even though Nash would clearly get owned by Kobe 100 out of 100 times if they played one on one.

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.

2008: Kobe finally silenced his critics and won MVP proving he was the best player on the best team once he finally had a decent running mate.

2009: Lebron won it over Kobe because once again the league claimed that it was all about having the Cavs having a better record than the Lakers. Never mind that the Eastern Conference was a joke and that the Lakers could have won 70 games had they been in the east. Guess the league doesn't take into account the record of the teams you face. They also didn't take into account that The Lakers beat the Cavs both times they faced them that season. Kobe also clearly outmatched Lebron in both matchups aswell. Kobe had the last laugh as he went on the win the championship and proved that he really was the best player on the best team with his finals MVP.

PhillyFaninLA
04-13-2012, 10:23 PM
Why does Kobe only have one MVP?

Early in his career he was the second best player on his team, the middle of his career you had guys that Kobe is better then overall have better years, and the last part of his career he was no better then second best or third best player on any given year.

tredigs
04-13-2012, 10:23 PM
God I hate homers.

You actually took the time to write, "yeah Duncan won MVP. But Kobe was the better individual talent" in an attempt to back up laughable claim that Kobe was "clearly the best player in the league all decade".

Great breakdown there chief.

shep33
04-13-2012, 10:24 PM
A point a made earlier...

I don't get why it matters...

Especially not in this world where the "yeah...but how many rings does he have?" narrative is hammered home so strongly.

Yeah very true ManRam. I dunno, ranking players just becomes more and more complex over time. New stats come out, the "rings" issue makes its way into play.

Ah well, whatever. I'm fine with it.

xILLN355
04-13-2012, 10:26 PM
2001: Its between him Iverson and Shaq. After the playoffs, its clear that Kobe was the best that season as Shaq clearly admitted in the following statement: "I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."

2002: Duncan was the league MVP, but Kobe won a championship and was the better individual talent.

2003: Duncan won it again, but Kobe was clearly the better individual talent still.

2004: Kobe was now the best player in the league and was the leader of the Lakers. He took them to the finals beating the league chosen MVP Garnet in the western conference finals. Kobe was clearly the better individual talent than KG.

2005: Kobe was on a horrible team and was injured for 1/4 of the season. Still, I don't know any players that were better individually than Kobe that year. Best player in the game still. By far a better individual talent than Nash.

2006: Clearly the best in the league...scored 81 in a game, averaged 35.4 ppg, 63 in 3 quarters. Still the NBA rewarded Nash over Kobe for a second time even though Nash would clearly get owned by Kobe 100 out of 100 times if they played one on one.

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.

2008: Kobe finally silenced his critics and won MVP proving he was the best player on the best team once he finally had a decent running mate.

2009: Lebron won it over Kobe because once again the league claimed that it was all about having the Cavs having a better record than the Lakers. Never mind that the Eastern Conference was a joke and that the Lakers could have won 70 games had they been in the east. Guess the league doesn't take into account the record of the teams you face. They also didn't take into account that The Lakers beat the Cavs both times they faced them that season. Kobe also clearly outmatched Lebron in both matchups aswell. Kobe had the last laugh as he went on the win the championship and proved that he really was the best player on the best team with his finals MVP.

lmao. obviously dude

amos1er
04-13-2012, 10:26 PM
I've made this argument a million times...

Make yours. Tell me what years Kobe deserved another MVP award.

Hell, I'll say that he didn't even deserve it in 2008.

Top 10 player of all time, for sure. Doesn't mean he deserved more than 1 MVP...

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Who deserved it then??? CP3???

The Lakers had the better record, Kobe had better numbers, Kobe was the better player and whooped CP3's *** when all the chips were on the line and the Lakers and Hornets faced each other with both teams needing that game for 1st place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgjpo-a21RI


Here is another for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JILcBVGBdQI

Kobe also led his team to the finals and CP3 couldn't even lead them past the semi's.

DaLakerz Rulz
04-13-2012, 10:26 PM
2001: Its between him Iverson and Shaq. After the playoffs, its clear that Kobe was the best that season as Shaq clearly admitted in the following statement: "I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."

2002: Duncan was the league MVP, but Kobe won a championship and was the better individual talent.

2003: Duncan won it again, but Kobe was clearly the better individual talent still.

2004: Kobe was now the best player in the league and was the leader of the Lakers. He took them to the finals beating the league chosen MVP Garnet in the western conference finals. Kobe was clearly the better individual talent than KG.

2005: Kobe was on a horrible team and was injured for 1/4 of the season. Still, I don't know any players that were better individually than Kobe that year. Best player in the game still. By far a better individual talent than Nash.

2006: Clearly the best in the league...scored 81 in a game, averaged 35.4 ppg, 63 in 3 quarters. Still the NBA rewarded Nash over Kobe for a second time even though Nash would clearly get owned by Kobe 100 out of 100 times if they played one on one.

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.

2008: Kobe finally silenced his critics and won MVP proving he was the best player on the best team once he finally had a decent running mate.

2009: Lebron won it over Kobe because once again the league claimed that it was all about having the Cavs having a better record than the Lakers. Never mind that the Eastern Conference was a joke and that the Lakers could have won 70 games had they been in the east. Guess the league doesn't take into account the record of the teams you face. They also didn't take into account that The Lakers beat the Cavs both times they faced them that season. Kobe also clearly outmatched Lebron in both matchups aswell. Kobe had the last laugh as he went on the win the championship and proved that he really was the best player on the best team with his finals MVP.

So your argument for almost every year is that he is the "better individual talent" based on nothing but your opinion. Sounds convincing.

xILLN355
04-13-2012, 10:27 PM
God I hate homers.

You actually took the time to write, "yeah Duncan won MVP. But Kobe was the better individual talent" in an attempt to back up laughable claim that Kobe was "clearly the best player in the league all decade".

Great breakdown there chief.

no back up what-so-ever. just saying hes better individual talent. classic homer

alexander_37
04-13-2012, 10:27 PM
2001: Its between him Iverson and Shaq. After the playoffs, its clear that Kobe was the best that season as Shaq clearly admitted in the following statement: "I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."

2002: Duncan was the league MVP, but Kobe won a championship and was the better individual talent.

2003: Duncan won it again, but Kobe was clearly the better individual talent still.

2004: Kobe was now the best player in the league and was the leader of the Lakers. He took them to the finals beating the league chosen MVP Garnet in the western conference finals. Kobe was clearly the better individual talent than KG.

2005: Kobe was on a horrible team and was injured for 1/4 of the season. Still, I don't know any players that were better individually than Kobe that year. Best player in the game still. By far a better individual talent than Nash.

2006: Clearly the best in the league...scored 81 in a game, averaged 35.4 ppg, 63 in 3 quarters. Still the NBA rewarded Nash over Kobe for a second time even though Nash would clearly get owned by Kobe 100 out of 100 times if they played one on one.

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.

2008: Kobe finally silenced his critics and won MVP proving he was the best player on the best team once he finally had a decent running mate.

2009: Lebron won it over Kobe because once again the league claimed that it was all about having the Cavs having a better record than the Lakers. Never mind that the Eastern Conference was a joke and that the Lakers could have won 70 games had they been in the east. Guess the league doesn't take into account the record of the teams you face. They also didn't take into account that The Lakers beat the Cavs both times they faced them that season. Kobe also clearly outmatched Lebron in both matchups aswell. Kobe had the last laugh as he went on the win the championship and proved that he really was the best player on the best team with his finals MVP.

ROFL...

This is line after line of homerisim.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-13-2012, 10:27 PM
nash was never the best.

Never said he was. I don't think he deserved his MVP's too.

What does that have to do with me thinking Kobe didn't deserve his MVPs?

alexander_37
04-13-2012, 10:28 PM
So your argument for almost every year is that he is the "better individual talent" based on nothing but your opinion. Sounds convincing.

:nod:

Hawkeye15
04-13-2012, 10:29 PM
thank god I didn't waste my time with a long, thought out post on that one...

shep33
04-13-2012, 10:30 PM
I sure wish my KG led Wolves were in the east during those years......

Haha totally. The east was pretty bad back then. The Wizards were the 5th seed out west with a 42-40 record.

jimbobjarree
04-13-2012, 10:30 PM
A point a made earlier...

I don't get why it matters...

Especially not in this world where the "yeah...but how many rings does he have?" narrative is hammered home so strongly.

manram, the master of the ellipsis...

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:30 PM
God I hate homers.

You actually took the time to write, "yeah Duncan won MVP. But Kobe was the better individual talent" in an attempt to back up laughable claim that Kobe was "clearly the best player in the league all decade".

Great breakdown there chief.

I can assure you you're not the only one in that boat.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-13-2012, 10:31 PM
2001: Its between him Iverson and Shaq. After the playoffs, its clear that Kobe was the best that season as Shaq clearly admitted in the following statement: "I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."

2002: Duncan was the league MVP, but Kobe won a championship and was the better individual talent.

2003: Duncan won it again, but Kobe was clearly the better individual talent still.

2004: Kobe was now the best player in the league and was the leader of the Lakers. He took them to the finals beating the league chosen MVP Garnet in the western conference finals. Kobe was clearly the better individual talent than KG.

2005: Kobe was on a horrible team and was injured for 1/4 of the season. Still, I don't know any players that were better individually than Kobe that year. Best player in the game still. By far a better individual talent than Nash.

2006: Clearly the best in the league...scored 81 in a game, averaged 35.4 ppg, 63 in 3 quarters. Still the NBA rewarded Nash over Kobe for a second time even though Nash would clearly get owned by Kobe 100 out of 100 times if they played one on one.

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.

2008: Kobe finally silenced his critics and won MVP proving he was the best player on the best team once he finally had a decent running mate.

2009: Lebron won it over Kobe because once again the league claimed that it was all about having the Cavs having a better record than the Lakers. Never mind that the Eastern Conference was a joke and that the Lakers could have won 70 games had they been in the east. Guess the league doesn't take into account the record of the teams you face. They also didn't take into account that The Lakers beat the Cavs both times they faced them that season. Kobe also clearly outmatched Lebron in both matchups aswell. Kobe had the last laugh as he went on the win the championship and proved that he really was the best player on the best team with his finals MVP.

I love the double standard you pull here. You claim that Kobe should win because they won the title(what does that have to do with the SEASON MVP) and had a better record yet you lower Lebron because his team had a better record.

You also seem to be infatuated with Kobe's scoring numbers. Yea... scoring isn't everything.


Also, he could have been the best talent. I'm not disagreeing that. But in terms of actual production in the regular season, he wasn't at the top.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:33 PM
2001: Its between him Iverson and Shaq. After the playoffs, its clear that Kobe was the best that season as Shaq clearly admitted in the following statement: "I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."

Shaq deserved it over Kobe any year they were both Lakers. He was simply the better and more dominant player. Post-Shaq era is when Kobe winning MVPs become possible.


2002: Duncan was the league MVP, but Kobe won a championship and was the better individual talent.

Championships don't matter in the MVP discussion...again, leading me to suggest you don't get what the MVP award means, and also leading me to believe that you think he deserves some sort of lifetime achievement award...


2003: Duncan won it again, but Kobe was clearly the better individual talent still.

Back that up, please. Not only was Duncan leading the Spurs to the best record in the NBA, but he was the better player. Just look at any stat that isn't PPG. Duncan trumped Kobe in WS, WS/48, PER. I mean, Duncan is a top 3, at the worst, PF of all time, and this was his peak. His team had more success...and again, if you consider what the MVP means, you'll understand why NO ONE thinks Duncan didn't deserve it.



2004: Kobe was now the best player in the league and was the leader of the Lakers. He took them to the finals beating the league chosen MVP Garnet in the western conference finals. Kobe was clearly the better individual talent than KG.

Again, "best player in the league"...well...that's subjective. KG had a better individual year, and his team had a better year too :shrug: KG had almost 5 more win shares than the next closest player...he was UNREAL that year. I thought he had a better season, and again, factoring in team success, which the MVP concerns itself with, KG was an easy pick.


2005: Kobe was on a horrible team and was injured for 1/4 of the season. Still, I don't know any players that were better individually than Kobe that year. Best player in the game still. By far a better individual talent than Nash.

Horrible team, and missed 1/4th of the season. Case closed. Any other player and you wouldn't care. It's the MVP award...not the "best player when healthy and irregardless of team success award"


2006: Clearly the best in the league...scored 81 in a game, averaged 35.4 ppg, 63 in 3 quarters. Still the NBA rewarded Nash over Kobe for a second time even though Nash would clearly get owned by Kobe 100 out of 100 times if they played one on one.

7 seed. I'm not gonna beat a dead horse...but team success matters.

Also, Dirk and LeBron had better seasons...KG probably had a better season too...

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.


2008: Kobe finally silenced his critics and won MVP proving he was the best player on the best team once he finally had a decent running mate.

Poor Kobe...took so long to "finally" have a decent running mate...

Paul had a better season, but, since it's the MVP award, not the "player who had the best individual season award", Kobe can have it. He was actually probably more deserving other years, and that's the funny thing. It wasn't at all his best season...his team just got better around him.


2009: Lebron won it over Kobe because once again the league claimed that it was all about having the Cavs having a better record than the Lakers. Never mind that the Eastern Conference was a joke and that the Lakers could have won 70 games had they been in the east. Guess the league doesn't take into account the record of the teams you face. They also didn't take into account that The Lakers beat the Cavs both times they faced them that season. Kobe also clearly outmatched Lebron in both matchups aswell. Kobe had the last laugh as he went on the win the championship and proved that he really was the best player on the best team with his finals MVP.

Well, a lot of people will tell you that LeBron had better individual regular seasons that Kobe those years...and I'd ask you to objectively tell me how that's not true.



All you're spewing is opinion...and that's fine...but when you act like opinion is fact, well, that's where you'll get into problems.

The Final Boss
04-13-2012, 10:34 PM
I have long talked about my distaste for the inconsistencies of the MVP award. That being said, you can't make an argument with no holes that Kobe Bryant was ever THE best player in any given year.

Please don't confuse my statement with agreeing that he doesn't deserve more than 1 however. Steve ****ing Nash won 2. Really???

And you wonder why the forum doesn't take you seriously.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:35 PM
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Who deserved it then??? CP3???

The Lakers had the better record, Kobe had better numbers, Kobe was the better player and whooped CP3's *** when all the chips were on the line and the Lakers and Hornets faced each other with both teams needing that game for 1st place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgjpo-a21RI


Here is another for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JILcBVGBdQI

Kobe also led his team to the finals and CP3 couldn't even lead them past the semi's.

Considering the definitions of the award, he deserved it. Sure.

But Paul was the better player that year, EASILY...and that contradicts your original stance.

Hawkeye15
04-13-2012, 10:36 PM
And you wonder why the forum doesn't take you seriously.

Correction: I don't care why most Laker fans don't take me seriously.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:37 PM
And you wonder why the forum doesn't take you seriously.

Excellent post. You really schooled him with all that logic and stuff!!!


It's not hard. You look at the stats, especially the ones that actually do a decent job of describing how good a player is and more importantly how positively he's impacting his team, and it's not a hard case to make...

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:37 PM
And you wonder why the forum doesn't take you seriously.

Actually Hawkeye15 is one of the most respected posters on this entire forum. Damn near everyone with an understanding of the game of basketball on this forum knows that he is a top quality poster.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:39 PM
Correction: I don't care why most Laker fans don't take me seriously.

The only Laker fans who don't take you seriously are those that are blind homers and think Kobe Bryant is a 2 rings away from being the G.O.A.T.

jimbobjarree
04-13-2012, 10:39 PM
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Who deserved it then??? CP3???

The Lakers had the better record, Kobe had better numbers, Kobe was the better player and whooped CP3's *** when all the chips were on the line and the Lakers and Hornets faced each other with both teams needing that game for 1st place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgjpo-a21RI


Here is another for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JILcBVGBdQI

Kobe also led his team to the finals and CP3 couldn't even lead them past the semi's.

CP3 took a pretty ragdoll team, who were a 39-43 lottery team the year before, almost to the 1st seed in the West. This, without acquiring a talent like Gasol for nothing. I always thought that was a more impressive achievement, not to mention his all round statistics and efficiency were ridiculous. Thats just my opinion though.

Considering its regular season MVP, I, unlike you, won't waste my time talking about the playoffs however.

Lakerhead4ever
04-13-2012, 10:40 PM
wow everyone is saying "look what cp3 did in that year" or "nash numbers" but you guys forget what kobe has done. u guys act like he went out there and never had a string of 60 point games, or 60 in three quarters,or a string of 40 point games or a string of 50 point games or bringing scrubs like smush parker and brian cook/ kwame brown to the playoffs and almost beating steve nash and the suns.

im so tired of this argument. people dont like the lakers/kobe. stop making threads about the two subject because its like beating a dead horse.

Kobe has 5 rings which is much greater than MVP's.

jimbobjarree
04-13-2012, 10:41 PM
Actually Hawkeye15 is one of the most respected posters on this entire forum. Damn near everyone with an understanding of the game of basketball on this forum knows that he is a top quality poster.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I have it on good authority that hawkeye actually knows nothing about basketball

gcoll
04-13-2012, 10:42 PM
An argument without holes is a pretty loose statement. I can make a pretty damn good argument that he was the best in the league from at least 2001 to 2009.

Agreed, that Steve Nash's second MVP was a joke. It was basically the NBA telling Kobe that we don't appreciate what happened in Colorado and here is us letting you know it.
Steve Nash's second MVP was about Amare Stoudemire being out for the year.

The answer to the question as to why Kobe doesn't have more MVPs....it's because he was at his best, when his team wasn't. So it went to guys who were on better teams. And the rape accusations may have played a part.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:42 PM
I have it on good authority that hawkeye actually knows nothing about basketball

I concur. It's all an act!


Kobe, top 10 player ever, perhaps higher: and MVPs don't mean a damn thing

Raps08-09 Champ
04-13-2012, 10:42 PM
And you wonder why the forum doesn't take you seriously.

:laugh2:

Is this serious?

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:43 PM
Oh and Manram :worthy:

I applaud you dude. You actually took the time to break down that post. You're a boss.

Hawkeye15
04-13-2012, 10:43 PM
wow everyone is saying "look what cp3 did in that year" or "nash numbers" but you guys forget what kobe has done. u guys act like he went out there and never had a string of 60 point games, or 60 in three quarters,or a string of 40 point games or a string of 50 point games or bringing scrubs like smush parker and brian cook/ kwame brown to the playoffs and almost beating steve nash and the suns.

im so tired of this argument. people dont like the lakers/kobe. stop making threads about the two subject because its like beating a dead horse.

Kobe has 5 rings which is much greater than MVP's.

Yes and no. Would a player rather have rings over awards and accolades? Yep. But having only 1 MVP, will always hurt his equation used when it comes to all time rankings.

Nobody neglects what Kobe has done. Imho, the reason Kobe is top 10 ever, is his unreal consistency. He has been a top 3-4 player for 14 years. That is damn near impossible. But again, there isn't a single year where its non-debateable that he was the game's best.

Basically, Kobe's PEAK was not as good as many of his peers, and if you think it was, his absolute peak coincided with his team being a non-factor. But his prime has outlasted them all. Equally impressive, if not more so.

PhillyFaninLA
04-13-2012, 10:46 PM
I concur. It's all an act!


Kobe, top 10 player ever, perhaps higher: and MVPs don't mean a damn thing

Kobe is no better then 3rd or 4th best Laker ever so he cannot be a top 10 player all time if he's not 1 or 2 on his own teams history.

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:48 PM
Kobe is no better then 3rd or 4th best Laker ever so he cannot be a top 10 player all time if he's not 1 or 2 on his own teams history.

This makes no sense.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 10:49 PM
Kobe is no better then 3rd or 4th best Laker ever so he cannot be a top 10 player all time if he's not 1 or 2 on his own teams history.

I was just trying to be nice to the Kobe fans! I agree he's in no way #1...and probably not 2 either (I do think it's close). I do think he's at worst #3. But that's neither here nor now. Kobe's fringe top 10 IMO...I just didn't want to stir up that debate too!

jimbobjarree
04-13-2012, 10:49 PM
Oh and Manram :worthy:

I applaud you dude. You actually took the time to break down that post. You're a boss.

or a guy who desperately needs a girlfriend?

PhillyFaninLA
04-13-2012, 10:49 PM
I was just trying to be nice to the Kobe fans! I agree he's in no way #1...and probably not 2 either (I do think it's close). I do think he's at worst #3. But that's neither here nor now. Kobe's fringe top 10 IMO...I just didn't want to stir up that debate too!

Fair enough and well stated.

Ovratd1up
04-13-2012, 10:50 PM
Because he hasn't played well enough.

amos1er
04-13-2012, 10:52 PM
Considering the definitions of the award, he deserved it. Sure.

But Paul was the better player that year, EASILY...and that contradicts your original stance.

In your opinion Paul was the better player that year. You're not backing up your statement with anything. Ask most sports analysts, coaches, ex-players, and experts and they will mostly all agree that Kobe was the best player in the NBA back in 2008. I defy you to find one credible opinion that says CP3 was the better player in 2008. In fact Larry Bird said that year that "the fact that Kobe didn't have an MVP award made him want to give his back".

coryd238
04-13-2012, 10:53 PM
2004-2009 Kobe was the best perimeter player in the league. Just because one player has a statistically better year doesn't mean they take that away from him. Jesus christ.

llemon
04-13-2012, 10:55 PM
http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2011-12/index.html



Surely Kobe deserves more than one MVP...Out of all the all time greats, he has been robbed the most. Maybe its because of the Colorado incident, or maybe its just typical Laker jealousy. Whatever it is, its a travesty that a player of Kobe's caliber has only one MVP to speak of.

Travesty??????

Life's tough. Walk it off, junior, and get back in the game.

Lakerhead4ever
04-13-2012, 10:55 PM
Yes and no. Would a player rather have rings over awards and accolades? Yep. But having only 1 MVP, will always hurt his equation used when it comes to all time rankings.

Nobody neglects what Kobe has done. Imho, the reason Kobe is top 10 ever, is his unreal consistency. He has been a top 3-4 player for 14 years. That is damn near impossible. But again, there isn't a single year where its non-debateable that he was the game's best.

Basically, Kobe's PEAK was not as good as many of his peers, and if you think it was, his absolute peak coincided with his team being a non-factor. But his prime has outlasted them all. Equally impressive, if not more so.


Like I said. This thread is like beating a dead horse.

amos1er
04-13-2012, 10:56 PM
Yes and no. Would a player rather have rings over awards and accolades? Yep. But having only 1 MVP, will always hurt his equation used when it comes to all time rankings.

Nobody neglects what Kobe has done. Imho, the reason Kobe is top 10 ever, is his unreal consistency. He has been a top 3-4 player for 14 years. That is damn near impossible. But again, there isn't a single year where its non-debateable that he was the game's best.

Basically, Kobe's PEAK was not as good as many of his peers, and if you think it was, his absolute peak coincided with his team being a non-factor. But his prime has outlasted them all. Equally impressive, if not more so.

ROTFLMAO. hahahahaaha Kobe back from 2006-2009 would whooop most of the all-time greats arses. 81 points in one game....clearly you can't argue that he wasn't the best in the league back in 2006.

amos1er
04-13-2012, 10:58 PM
2004-2009 Kobe was the best perimeter player in the league. Just because one player has a statistically better year doesn't mean they take that away from him. Jesus christ.

:clap:

Jenceman
04-13-2012, 11:06 PM
Yeah, I call ******** that Kobe was never the best player. That's just ****ing hating :laugh2:

stawka
04-13-2012, 11:08 PM
This is probably the worst thread that has stayed open in the history of the Internet. Yep, I said it!

ManRam
04-13-2012, 11:12 PM
or a guy who desperately needs a girlfriend?

I think you're actually way more right than he is...

JordansBulls
04-13-2012, 11:12 PM
2003 Duncan was clearly the best player in the league no doubt about it. Led team to best record in the league, won league mvp and won finals mvp and also beat the 3x defending champs. No way on earth Kobe was better than Duncan that year. And from 2000-2002 Shaq was the best player in the league.

ManRam
04-13-2012, 11:13 PM
ROTFLMAO. hahahahaaha Kobe back from 2006-2009 would whooop most of the all-time greats arses. 81 points in one game....clearly you can't argue that he wasn't the best in the league back in 2006.

So...you are using one game to support this claim...that's wise.

shep33
04-13-2012, 11:35 PM
I need to leave my homerism out of this topic lol.

naps
04-13-2012, 11:35 PM
He didn't even deserve the one he got, let alone deserving more then one. Kobe has been a top 5 player for so many years that it's his longevity that makes him a great but I honestly don't see any year where he was the hands down best player in the league and I don't see any year where he deserved the mvp award all over the ones that got the award. I'm glad that hawkeye, tredigs, manram are already posting in this thread. I know they will own anyone who thinks Kobe deserved more MVP award.

Chronz
04-13-2012, 11:39 PM
Well Shaq deserved it over AI
Duncan and KG deserved theirs
Shaq deserved the first one Nash won
Dirk deserved Nash's second
Nash Deserved Dirks first
Kobe or CP3 deserved the 08
Bron owns the rest

That wraps up Kobes career.

If the awards were done right Shaq would have 3 in 2K era

Sadds The Gr8
04-13-2012, 11:39 PM
00-04 - Shaq was the man.
05-07 - even though his stats were impressive his teams were garbage and barely made the playoffs. The league rewards MVP as best player on best team.
08 - he won...
09-10 - He had pretty good stats but Lebron's were better and his teams were #1 seeds. (best player on best team).
11 - he doesn't deserve MVP now. he's pretty much a volume scorer now like Iverson and Carmelo Anthony.

And for the people saying he was NEVER the best player in the league at one point, I'm one of the biggest Kobe haters there is and even I think that statement is an absolute ****in joke.

Chronz
04-13-2012, 11:40 PM
You explained it much more simpler

Greet
04-13-2012, 11:46 PM
^lol

gcoll
04-13-2012, 11:49 PM
Interesting stat. Kobe has never shot 50% in a season. Found that sort of odd.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-14-2012, 12:01 AM
2004-2009 Kobe was the best perimeter player in the league. Just because one player has a statistically better year doesn't mean they take that away from him. Jesus christ.

Half of those years, his team was a low seed or missed the playoffs.

When his team was actually winning regular season games, Lebron's team also had a good record AND he had a larger impact.

lakersfan01
04-14-2012, 12:23 AM
Almost as big of a crime as Shaq only having 1. Lakers envy.

FraziersKnicks
04-14-2012, 12:27 AM
This thread is full of fail.. 95% of it belonging to amos1er.

coryd238
04-14-2012, 01:06 AM
Jesus christ, once again: this is the dumbest basketball related forum I've ever been apart of.



2004-2009 Kobe was the best perimeter player in the league. Just because one player has a statistically better year doesn't mean they take that away from him. Jesus christ.

Oh! Tmac scored a little better than Kobe for one season? Hahah, Kobe's no longer the best player in the league xD. No, if you're not ****ing ******** you'd know that Kobe WAS the most dominant player in that time span AND his consistency with that was outstanding.

My god.

DaLakerz Rulz
04-14-2012, 01:08 AM
Interesting stat. Kobe has never shot 50% in a season. Found that sort of odd.

Not many shooting guards have that type of efficiency (besides Jordan of course).

LAKobeBryant
04-14-2012, 01:09 AM
It's amazing that he and Shaq only have two combined. Anyways, it doesn't really matter.

Both those guys' greatness is noted in NBA history.

doesn't matter finals MVP are more valuable than league MVP imo.

Hawkeye15
04-14-2012, 03:18 AM
Like I said. This thread is like beating a dead horse.

agreed brother.

JC_
04-14-2012, 03:32 AM
Great article, the year he averaged 35.4 he was simply robbed blind, in my opinion was not even a debate, Nash's numbers were good but he put up stats that are good but not rare. Kobe put up one of the best scoring seasons of all time in an era where that jus't dosnt happen anymore, absolutely robbed. Other than that he could of arguably won another mvp award but other than that unfortunetly the mvp award is as much a team award as it is individual, the best player for over a decade will most likely finish with 1 mvp and that is just sad, he deserves so much more.

I guess the argument that you could make is Nash made his team insanely better than it was without him, just like Lebron did with the Cavs.

JC_
04-14-2012, 03:36 AM
doesn't matter finals MVP are more valuable than league MVP imo.

This. Regular season mvp's help for sure but they don't really mean **** when you have so many championship rings.

PhillyFaninLA
04-14-2012, 06:06 AM
This. Regular season mvp's help for sure but they don't really mean **** when you have so many championship rings.

If you want to use rings then have the balls to say Robery Horry and Jim Loscutoff are better then Kobe because they have more ring or don't use rings as your argument.

Every player with more rings is better and have the balls to admit it if it is going to be your only argument.

Using rings as a your only measuring stick means you don't understand how to evaluate a player, can't think for yourself, and can't create an open minded argument only a cliche popular one.

Also the Kobe defenders always use this because they don't have much else. Kobe is a great player but has rarely if ever been the best player in a random 12 month period, he's always been near it but not it.

Lastly rings are a team accomplishment not individual.

BoognishMN
04-14-2012, 07:45 AM
Fairly simple, early in his career he played with Shaq and that split the votes. Later in his career he was an acused rapist and had a reputation as not being a great team player. The MVP is "Valuable" not best. I think first team all-NBA teams are a better measure of greatness anyway.

NBAfan4life
04-14-2012, 07:48 AM
Big Kobe fan here, but I think it is a bigger travesty Shaq only having one.

Lakers211221
04-14-2012, 08:12 AM
Because it's not an award for best player in the league, it's an award for most popular player to the sports media.

C-Style
04-14-2012, 08:13 AM
How can anyone say that Kobe who played both defense and offense for a good 8 years was not better then player 'B' who played no defense.

Dirk, Nash, T-Mac, AI, Shaq, Lebron(up until 2010), & Wade did not have the all around game Kobe had where he can score from anywhere on the floor from his post game, 1on1 game, long range game, mid range game, add 5assist & 6 rbs 2stls 1blk.. And still have pride in playing lock down defense. Nobody has since Jordan. Thats what seperated him from the players in 2000's... But the typical Kobe haters wanna turn a blind eye and just look at offensive stats to make an argument.

Teeboy1487
04-14-2012, 08:24 AM
I never cared for the MVP award. It's a regular season award. Kobe is still an alltime great and probably top 5-7 alltime. I doubt he cares about having one MVP award. It's about rings with him and having 5 of them as a superstar on his teams beats any MVP award. I bet Kobe would trade his MVP award in 08 for 2008 Finals MVP any day of the week. At the end of the day, he is a winner. That is his legacy.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-14-2012, 08:24 AM
Big Kobe fan here, but I think it is a bigger travesty Shaq only having one.

Shaq is the main victim of the Jordan Era.

Lakers211221
04-14-2012, 08:27 AM
I guess the argument that you could make is Nash made his team insanely better than it was without him, just like Lebron did with the Cavs.

Kobe didn't make that team "insanely" better? Do you realize he took that team to the playoffs and went to game 7 against the Suns and the starting lineup was Smush Parker, Kobe Bryant, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, and Kwame Brown?

abe_froman
04-14-2012, 08:31 AM
there are alot of greats that have one or none-big o,dr.j.wade,kg,stockton,shaq,dirk,hakeem,west,bark ley,baylor,ect.

i know many kobe fans this their fav subject but mvp voting depends on the circumstances of the year ,not just if your all time great or not.as i pointed out above just being top 10 or 20 of all time rankings doesnt guarantee multiple mvps.kobe isnt a special case in this regard,he's just one of many

Lakers211221
04-14-2012, 08:34 AM
there are alot of greats that have less than one or none-big o,dr.j.wade,kg,stockton,shaq,dirk,west,baylor,ect.

mvp voting depends on the circumstances of year ,not just if your great or not.just because your an all time great doesnt guarantee multiple mvps as i pointed out above

Aside from Shaq and West, none of those other players are even close to being on the same level as Kobe as an all-time great.

JordansBulls
04-14-2012, 08:48 AM
Well Shaq deserved it over AI
Duncan and KG deserved theirs
Shaq deserved the first one Nash won
Dirk deserved Nash's second
Nash Deserved Dirks first
Kobe or CP3 deserved the 08
Bron owns the rest

That wraps up Kobes career.

If the awards were done right Shaq would have 3 in 2K era

Shaq was the best over Iverson but he didn't deserve it over AI not when both teams had the same record and Shaq had wayy more talent on his team than Iverson. Lebron deserved his in 2009 and 2010 and Rose deserved his in 2011 as the only allstar on his team.

C-Style
04-14-2012, 08:49 AM
Whats even funnier is the argument they used against Kobe with that "take Lebron/Kobe off their team" is no longer one now... Why dont they use the same argument against Lebron? Their are teams that if you take their best player off the team, they drop off significantly. U remove Lebron and u still have a top contender.

Swashcuff
04-14-2012, 08:58 AM
Whats even funnier is the argument they used against Kobe with that "take Lebron/Kobe off their team" is no longer one now... Why dont they use the same argument against Lebron? Their are teams that if you take their best player off the team, they drop off significantly. U remove Lebron and u still have a top contender.

:confused:

What are you talking about? The discussion is about's Kobe's prime what does that have to do with LeBron James?

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-14-2012, 09:09 AM
:confused:

What are you talking about? The discussion is about's Kobe's prime what does that have to do with LeBron James?

Incorrect.

The discussion is about why Kobe has only 1 Maurice Podoloff Trophy.

C-Style is basically saying that the MVP criteria has changed so much that Kobe has been slighted on numerous occasions because of it, but the criteria always plays a favor in the seasons that LBJ is an MVP candidate, thus, it's a double standard against Mr. Bryant.

SaimuKala
04-14-2012, 09:12 AM
"Probably cuz hes overrated and an arrogant chucker." Thats probably what 90% of the people in PSD think.

3RDASYSTEM
04-14-2012, 09:22 AM
The same **** i hear bout all this greatness and blah blah blah i havent heard 1 person on here acknowledge how in the hell can and why did he backup EDDIE JONES coming in for not 1 not 2 but 3yrs ..was it becausse of EDDIES greatness or cause the coach didnt know the basic concept of playing the best player for majority of minutes or did they get it right and play the best player most minutes?

Nobody ever answers the 'backup guard' ? how does someone so great and dominant start out as a backup for yrs? thats the dumbest **** i've ever heard in sports, its just like he was ROBIN now he's BATMAN, he took RIDERs dunk to make him a premature ALLSTAR, he had MIKES game and was prematurely compared cause he won rings earlier but took his entire game and made it his since the cash cow MJ had retired and AI clearly didnt conform tho he was better individually since day 1 rookie yr,film dont lie...

VICTOR CRUZ win another ring and IRVIN/RICE better watch out, same with ARIAN FOSTER if he win he coming for BARRY and EMMITT..especially IRVIN/RICE since CRUZ just gotta ring in like his rookie yr and had a sensational season to start off career

Did i miss the boat or somethin because im sure a backup guard who turns into a perennial ALLSTAR will not mentioned on a MT RUSHMORE of sports, pretty pathetic if ya ask me, i dont care if he played in UTAH/S.A. market or LA/NYC ..its hype at its finest...imagine if DUNCAN played in NYC or LA with his 4rings, he wouldnt be mentioned as great PF ever, it would be greatest BIG man ever cause hes basically RUSSELL with better off. game..so i get it now

The Clone has 5rings, the original had 6 with no bigs,the clones transformed from WILT for 8yrs to most talented 7foot frontline in bball, they outrebound teams by themselves, yea those 2 guys...

but hey i guess if he deserves to be on RUSHMORE then so does HORRY and B.WALLACE, HORRY came in and started from day 1 and got 7 rings, WALLACE came up more like KB and worked his way into starting lineup and end up 4time defensive player of yr, with 2 FINALS app and 1 ring as he anchored it ala RUSSELL style,shouldnt WALLACE be on RUSHMORE?... i bet if WALLACE played in LA with those credentials he would be looked at as superior or equal to RUSSELL D, but overly hyped cuz of market....


KB so good that he can win 3 rings as 'ROBIN' then magically transform from no8 to no24 and win 2 because that number change turned him into BATMAN?wat a media frontrunner

and when people say he was best since 2001-09 it lets me know they fanatics and followers..he just started his 2nd full season in 01 and that was his 5th season in...wouldnt ya think that somebody that is a top 3 player since 2001 would have been in starting lineup since inception...ala AI?

Its like since KB patterned his game after JORDAN they automatically positioned him into it because MJ was no ROBIN, but all i hear is KB was 2nd fiddle or ROBIN to SHAQ during 3peat, once a ROBIN always a ROBIN...right PIPPEN? wasnt PIPPEN a ROBIN to JORDAN? Well KB is a scoring version of PIPPEN, go figure

then when guys like CHRONZ say SHAQ deserved it over AI then it makes KB look even more overrated/hyped because he basically saying that MCKIE/SNOW/LYNCH is equal to KB as SHAQ's support...pure CHAPPELLE comedy

Moral of story: its amazing feat for a backup guard turned perennial ALLSTAR to win just 1 MVP, now thats a ice cold accomplishment from a backup guard turned starter but to put him on RUSHMORE is all media driven

Swashcuff
04-14-2012, 09:25 AM
Incorrect.

The discussion is about why Kobe has only 1 Maurice Podoloff Trophy.

C-Style is basically saying that the MVP criteria has changed so much that Kobe has been slighted on numerous occasions because of it, but the criteria always plays a favor in the seasons that LBJ is an MVP candidate, thus, it's a double standard against Mr. Bryant.

So what you're essentially trying to tell me that even before LeBron came into the league the double standard has been in favour of him? Like when A.I. won in 01, or The Dream won in 94, or Moses in 82, etc etc etc. It has long been the criteria that if a player has an amazing fete such as LeBron in those regular seasons that he is awarded with the MVP.

Tell me something. If during the course of his prime when Kobe had those scrub teams do you think had the Lakers won 55+ games in any season he would still have been snubbed of the MVP?

Also if you guys are alluding to LBJ in contention for it this season then you should take into account that Wade has missed a considerable amount of time this season and Bosh has tailed off fast as the season progressed and despite that LeBron is putting together one of the best statistical seasons ever.

Lastly there have always been MVPs that played for stacked teams. If a player is flat out the best player in the league and his team finished with a top 3 record are you really going to say that the criteria is shifted just to reward him and spite Kobe? Seriously dude.

Kobe doesn't have more MVPs due to the mere fact that in his most dominant seasons he didn't have the help nor the system to get his team over the hill. Its really that simple.

And yes the conversation is about Kobe's prime as has been discussed at length during this thread. His prime years being those that he was according to some "snubbed" of winning the MVP award.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-14-2012, 09:31 AM
So what you're essentially trying to tell me that even before LeBron came into the league the double standard has been in favour of him? Like when A.I. won in 01, or The Dream won in 94, or Moses in 82, etc etc etc. It has long been the criteria that if a player has an amazing fete such as LeBron in those regular seasons that he is awarded with the MVP.

Tell me something. If during the course of his prime when Kobe had those scrub teams do you think had the Lakers won 55+ games in any season he would still have been snubbed of the MVP?

Also if you guys are alluding to LBJ in contention for it this season then you should take into account that Wade has missed a considerable amount of time this season and Bosh has tailed off fast as the season progressed and despite that LeBron is putting together one of the best statistical seasons ever.

Lastly there have always been MVPs that played for stacked teams. If a player is flat out the best player in the league and his team finished with a top 3 record are you really going to say that the criteria is shifted just to reward him and spite Kobe? Seriously dude.

Kobe doesn't have more MVPs due to the mere fact that in his most dominant seasons he didn't have the help nor the system to get his team over the hill. Its really that simple.

And yes the conversation is about Kobe's prime as has been discussed at length during this thread. His prime years being those that he was according to some "snubbed" of winning the MVP award.


Although you make valid points here, what C-Style is trying to say and that I agree is that Kobe wasn't even "considered" for the MVP award in the mid-2000s, the criteria kept changing.


When it was Nash getting those awards, it was "The guy who makes his teammates better". But when Dirk got the award, it was "Best player on the best team". Now, currently with LBJ as the MVP candidate on the Heat, it's "Best historical stats, PER, win shares on a top team".


The criteria changes basically ever year to accommodate the pre-season winner of the award (meaning the guy that was already picked to win the award by analysts etc. before the season even started).

Swashcuff
04-14-2012, 09:40 AM
Although you make valid points here, what C-Style is trying to say and that I agree is that Kobe wasn't even "considered" for the MVP award in the mid-2000s, the criteria kept changing.


When it was Nash getting those awards, it was "The guy who makes his teammates better". But when Dirk got the award, it was "Best player on the best team". Now, currently with LBJ as the MVP candidate on the Heat, it's "Best historical stats, PER, win shares on a top team".


The criteria changes basically ever year to accommodate the pre-season winner of the award (meaning the guy that was already picked to win the award by analysts etc. before the season even started).

That is a conspiracy theory that holds no ground in a debate such as this.

Also tell me which of these criteria apply to Kobe Bryant's mid 2000s in the years that he didn't win the MVP? He wasn't the best player on his Laker teams when Shaq was around. His team wasn't even a top 5 seed in his conference when he played without Shaq when Gasol arrived he eventually got his according to the very same criteria that Derrick Rose won his LeBron won his, Nash won his (because he was the best player on the best team and made them way better), Dirk won his etc.

Kobe too benefited from that criteria when he won his MVP award. He had a top 3 record in the league. The best in his conference and was quite handily the best player on his own team. To me that looks every bit like LeBron, Dirk, Nash and Rose winning theirs.

There are many different factors to be taken into consideration when awarding an MVP and in Kobe's instance it was unfortunate that things didn't pan out for his team in the season when he was playing at his very best on both ends of the floor.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-14-2012, 09:48 AM
That is a conspiracy theory that holds no ground in a debate such as this.

Also tell me which of these criteria apply to Kobe Bryant's mid 2000s in the years that he didn't win the MVP? He wasn't the best player on his Laker teams when Shaq was around. His team wasn't even a top 5 seed in his conference when he played without Shaq when Gasol arrived he eventually got his according to the very same criteria that Derrick Rose won his LeBron won his, Nash won his (because he was the best player on the best team and made them way better), Dirk won his etc.

Kobe too benefited from that criteria when he won his MVP award. He had a top 3 record in the league. The best in his conference and was quite handily the best player on his own team. To me that looks every bit like LeBron, Dirk, Nash and Rose winning theirs.

There are many different factors to be taken into consideration when awarding an MVP and in Kobe's instance it was unfortunate that things didn't pan out for his team in the season when he was playing at his very best on both ends of the floor.


You talk about Kobe's 08 MVP season all due to Pau Gasol, but that is untrue.

If you remember, the Lakers were the #1 seed with Kobe and Bynum. Then Bynum went down with an injury, the Lakers went 3-5 in that span, and fell to 6th place, then Pau came in and the Lakers went back up to the #1 seed.


The one constant was Kobe Bryant, and all he needed was a big man not named Kwame Brown down low to keep the Lakers atop of the West.


And he was doing all this heading into that season not knowing his future with the Lakers because of the trade demand the previous summer.

JordansBulls
04-14-2012, 09:50 AM
So what you're essentially trying to tell me that even before LeBron came into the league the double standard has been in favour of him? Like when A.I. won in 01, or The Dream won in 94, or Moses in 82, etc etc etc. It has long been the criteria that if a player has an amazing fete such as LeBron in those regular seasons that he is awarded with the MVP.

Tell me something. If during the course of his prime when Kobe had those scrub teams do you think had the Lakers won 55+ games in any season he would still have been snubbed of the MVP?

Also if you guys are alluding to LBJ in contention for it this season then you should take into account that Wade has missed a considerable amount of time this season and Bosh has tailed off fast as the season progressed and despite that LeBron is putting together one of the best statistical seasons ever.

Lastly there have always been MVPs that played for stacked teams. If a player is flat out the best player in the league and his team finished with a top 3 record are you really going to say that the criteria is shifted just to reward him and spite Kobe? Seriously dude.

Kobe doesn't have more MVPs due to the mere fact that in his most dominant seasons he didn't have the help nor the system to get his team over the hill. Its really that simple.

And yes the conversation is about Kobe's prime as has been discussed at length during this thread. His prime years being those that he was according to some "snubbed" of winning the MVP award.

What players won league mvp playing on a stacked team that didn't finish 1st in there conference?

Teeboy1487
04-14-2012, 09:53 AM
That is a conspiracy theory that holds no ground in a debate such as this.

Also tell me which of these criteria apply to Kobe Bryant's mid 2000s in the years that he didn't win the MVP? He wasn't the best player on his Laker teams when Shaq was around. His team wasn't even a top 5 seed in his conference when he played without Shaq when Gasol arrived he eventually got his according to the very same criteria that Derrick Rose won his LeBron won his, Nash won his (because he was the best player on the best team and made them way better), Dirk won his etc.

Kobe too benefited from that criteria when he won his MVP award. He had a top 3 record in the league. The best in his conference and was quite handily the best player on his own team. To me that looks every bit like LeBron, Dirk, Nash and Rose winning theirs.

There are many different factors to be taken into consideration when awarding an MVP and in Kobe's instance it was unfortunate that things didn't pan out for his team in the season when he was playing at his very best on both ends of the floor.
I do agree with this. The standard has always been the best player on the team with the top 3 record in the league. This is why I never cared for the award because a player is rewarded for team success even when there are better players or more valuable players in the league.

I do think Lebron deserved his awards and he was a legit MVP both times. Honestly, I thought he deserved it in 07 as well over Dirk. I think the DPOY is a more legit award for individual success because it has been consistently given to the best defensive player in the league. I stop caring for the MVP award when Dirk, Nash, and even Kobe received it (lifetime achievement award).

xbrackattackx
04-14-2012, 09:59 AM
I don't get why just having one is bad, there are plenty of players who never got any MVP awards. Kobe is a great player, but I'm fine with him having one. I think in the mid 00s Mcgrady was better, but didn't have Kobe's drive. that's what i think separates Kobe from the other players. he may not have been the best one season overall. but his heart and drive were way deeper then any other players. Hence why he is still in the league and Marbury,Iverson,j Oneal,Kerry kittles and other greats from a deep draft, yea they are all done. but Kobes heart and drive, he still going.

Swashcuff
04-14-2012, 10:01 AM
What players won league mvp playing on a stacked team that didn't finish 1st in there conference?

None.

eugene
04-14-2012, 10:06 AM
cause he just wasnt the best player in the NBA... his "success" was conditioned by the overall lack of talent in the NBA during these days. look at his stats, he always was unefficient each year there were guys that deserved this title more. MVP - most valuable player means the effect which the player has on his team positive results and ability to win games for these teams. Every year when Lakers was able to win, Kobe played alongside some true stars like Shaq and Pau. It explains everything...

basketfan4life
04-14-2012, 10:17 AM
i think Kobe was the best player in the league for solid 3 to 5 seasons. Sure PER or WS may not agree with me, but it is what it is. People everywhere were agreeing Kobe was the best those years, than someone came up with some stats, and people changed their opinions about those years. Again it is what it is.

As far as MVP goes, i don't think he deserved more than 1. Its rules are damn clear, put up great stats and take your team to the top. Not make the most out of your team (which Kobe did in 06 and 07) just take it to the top. while taking that Lakers team to 7th seed with 45 wins is as incredible as it is, 7th seed is not the top, so you can't get the award. You have to have a good team to win an MVP.

Kobe could have won MVP in 09 and 10, but lebron had better stats and better team record, so he was the MVP. Fair and clear. I don't think LBJ was the best player at the time, Kobe still was, which he proved every year in the playoffs,BTW where i rank players, but lebron had better team record and better stats in the regular season, so he was the MVP.

MTL_123
04-14-2012, 11:11 AM
i find it weird that Wade,D-12 and CP3 dnt have it

richiesaurus310
04-14-2012, 11:40 AM
Well one reason was all the years he was with shaq he couldn't win one if shaq wasn't winning them either. He and shaq should have more than one though. What's funny is the one kobe has I think belonged to chris paul that year.

$GangGr33n$
04-14-2012, 12:01 PM
MVP: Most Valuable Player not best player award, take Kobe away from the Lakers in any year after Shaq left theyre drafting pretty early in the lottery he definitely deserves more than 1 MVP award

smith&wesson
04-14-2012, 12:21 PM
alot of kobe haters in psd.

he is in his 16th season and still playing at the highest level. leading the league in scoring and 4th in mins. you guys have to remember the guys he is playing against are from a much newer generation.

but its ok keep up the blind hate. im sure it makes living your lives much better..

nash really shouldnt have two mvp's if shaq and kobe have only one. it makes no sence at all.

heyman321
04-14-2012, 12:38 PM
Nash should have THREE MVPs.

JasonJohnHorn
04-14-2012, 12:51 PM
He's only got one because he wasn't good enough to win more than that. Basically when he was with Shaq, Shaq was the MVP of that team. And when he was putting up his rediculous numbers, the team wasn't that good. Then LBJ arrived on the scene, and let's face it, LBJ is better than Kobe, so Kobe's window for MVP has closed.

If he was ever actually as good as Jordan, he would have won about six. But he's not, so he's got one.

And lets face it, Kobe, as often as he is the reason the Lakers won, is also the reason they LOST. This season is a great example. If Kobe was sharing the ball with Bynum and Gasol more, they'd have a better record. But there have been a number of games where Kobe has jacked up a bunch of ugly shots and shot well below 40% on the night, while Bynum ends up outsocring Kobe with half as many shots. Kobe should be playing into Bynum right now and encouraging Bynum to become dominant. But instead he's stunting Bynum's growth as a player because he's too busy looking for his own shots.

Cheers!

smith&wesson
04-14-2012, 12:51 PM
Nash should have THREE MVPs.

Might make up for his lack of rings ? he had played with all star casts most of his career i wonder why he never reached the ultimate prize. he is a great player i always wondered why those great suns teams couldnt get it done.

smith&wesson
04-14-2012, 12:53 PM
He's only got one because he wasn't good enough to win more than that. Basically when he was with Shaq, Shaq was the MVP of that team. And when he was putting up his rediculous numbers, the team wasn't that good. Then LBJ arrived on the scene, and let's face it, LBJ is better than Kobe, so Kobe's window for MVP has closed.

If he was ever actually as good as Jordan, he would have won about six. But he's not, so he's got one.

Cheers!

how come shaq only has one ? just doesnt seem right.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-14-2012, 01:16 PM
Might make up for his lack of rings ? he had played with all star casts most of his career i wonder why he never reached the ultimate prize. he is a great player i always wondered why those great suns teams couldnt get it done.

He also had stacked teams in Dallas. Remember the yr when he had Dirk, Finley, Jamison, Tawn and Van Exel?

JordansBulls
04-14-2012, 02:30 PM
how come shaq only has one ? just doesnt seem right.
Lakers were only the top seed once and this with a team that was as talented as their's.

DaLakerz Rulz
04-14-2012, 03:08 PM
Lakers were only the top seed once and this with a team that was as talented as their's.

So it should only go to the player on the team with the top record? I agree with Kobe not deserving more, but Shaq definitely does. He was the most dominant player in basketball history IMO. How does that only deserve one mvp award?

The year Iverson won, the Lakers had the 2nd best record in the league (2 more losses than Spurs). Shaq averaged ridiculous numbers and was extremely efficient, and they won the title. Meanwhile you have Iverson chucking shots at 42% FG and only 4.6 assists. Even his WS/48 was much lower than Shaq's (Shaq was 2nd in league after David Robinson). Yea, real MVP worthy.

It just shows what a pointless award it is.

JasonJohnHorn
04-14-2012, 03:19 PM
how come shaq only has one ? just doesnt seem right.

Kobe and Shaq cancel each other out. Because they are both MVP candidates, the one takes votes away from the other. Guys like Garnett and Ducan never had another top-40 player all time playing with them. And Shaq and Kobe would be considered, by some at least, to both be top 10 players (though I wouldnt place either as high as ten).

Also, guys like Duncan and Garnett were ironmen, they played most of the season, where as Shaq missed a lot of games due to injury, and Shaq has made comments about the regular season not mattering much, and it seemed to me, especially since he got to LA, that he played with that kind of mindset, like the regular season was a rheresal and the playoffs are what counted. Duncan and Garnett and Nash play every game like its game seven of the NBA finals. These guys left it all on the floor, and Shaq, if you look at his playoff numbers, clearly wasn't leaving it all out on the floor during the regular season.

DaLakerz Rulz
04-14-2012, 03:22 PM
Kobe and Shaq cancel each other out. Because they are both MVP candidates, the one takes votes away from the other. Guys like Garnett and Ducan never had another top-40 player all time playing with them. And Shaq and Kobe would be considered, by some at least, to both be top 10 players (though I wouldnt place either as high as ten).

Also, guys like Duncan and Garnett were ironmen, they played most of the season, where as Shaq missed a lot of games due to injury, and Shaq has made comments about the regular season not mattering much, and it seemed to me, especially since he got to LA, that he played with that kind of mindset, like the regular season was a rheresal and the playoffs are what counted. Duncan and Garnett and Nash play every game like its game seven of the NBA finals.

What players say, and their injury history OUTSIDE THE SEASON IN QUESTION should not matter at all.

Berniemac23
04-14-2012, 03:46 PM
I agree I think Kobe should have been awarded at least three times..the problem is he's played with great big men on two separate time frames (O'neal) &(Gasol & Bynum) maybe stealing some of his shine and giving to it to Nash who made the Suns.

smith&wesson
04-14-2012, 03:55 PM
Kobe and Shaq cancel each other out. Because they are both MVP candidates, the one takes votes away from the other. Guys like Garnett and Ducan never had another top-40 player all time playing with them. And Shaq and Kobe would be considered, by some at least, to both be top 10 players (though I wouldnt place either as high as ten).

Also, guys like Duncan and Garnett were ironmen, they played most of the season, where as Shaq missed a lot of games due to injury, and Shaq has made comments about the regular season not mattering much, and it seemed to me, especially since he got to LA, that he played with that kind of mindset, like the regular season was a rheresal and the playoffs are what counted. Duncan and Garnett and Nash play every game like its game seven of the NBA finals. These guys left it all on the floor, and Shaq, if you look at his playoff numbers, clearly wasn't leaving it all out on the floor during the regular season.

kobe and shaq may have cancled eachother out.but the argument that great players who play with other greats is flawed imo. lebron plays with wade and still is in running for mvp awards. jordan played with fellow hof players like pippen and rodman. durant basically plays with two all stars and when its all said and done westbrook and harden could be noted as greats too. they are just young at this piont.

you dont put shaq in your top 10 ? i know kareem and russle were great and all but if they played in shaqs era, shaq would own them.

but to each his own i supose. ill agree to disagree.

smith&wesson
04-14-2012, 04:09 PM
Hakeem only won one as well. imo hakeem, shaq, kobe all deserve more.

jim51990
04-14-2012, 04:12 PM
He really only deserved one shaq led the team then kobes teams struggled and he was nothing more then a monta ellis type then he steped his game up won the mvp and 2 championships then decreases a little. Thats basicly sums it up

gcoll
04-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Might make up for his lack of rings ? he had played with all star casts most of his career i wonder why he never reached the ultimate prize. he is a great player i always wondered why those great suns teams couldnt get it done.
To win a title you need to be very good, and you need to get a few breaks.

The Suns have been very good...but haven't had that many breaks. The first year with Nash, Joe Johnson got injured in the playoffs. The second year, Amare was out the whole year. Still got to the Western Conference finals. The third year was the year of the suspensions against the Spurs. An overlooked aspect of that series was Steve Nash missing crunch time in game one because the trainers couldn't stop his nose from bleeding.

The most recent year of the Suns being good.....not that much bad luck (apart from an Artest offensive rebound). But, that's just sort of the way it goes.

So. The reason the Suns haven't won a title in the Nash era is a combination of coming up against some very good teams, and catching some bad breaks along the way. Also, we have a terrible owner.

DaLakerz Rulz
04-14-2012, 04:20 PM
kobe and shaq may have cancled eachother out.but the argument that great players who play with other greats is flawed imo. lebron plays with wade and still is in running for mvp awards. jordan played with fellow hof players like pippen and rodman. durant basically plays with two all stars and when its all said and done westbrook and harden could be noted as greats too. they are just young at this piont.

you dont put shaq in your top 10 ? i know kareem and russle were great and all but if they played in shaqs era, shaq would own them.

but to each his own i supose. ill agree to disagree.

Exactly - if people are going to complain about Kobe/Shaq, then Lebron should be out of the MVP race as long as he is on the Heat with Wade.

smith&wesson
04-14-2012, 04:33 PM
To win a title you need to be very good, and you need to get a few breaks.

The Suns have been very good...but haven't had that many breaks. The first year with Nash, Joe Johnson got injured in the playoffs. The second year, Amare was out the whole year. Still got to the Western Conference finals. The third year was the year of the suspensions against the Spurs. An overlooked aspect of that series was Steve Nash missing crunch time in game one because the trainers couldn't stop his nose from bleeding.

The most recent year of the Suns being good.....not that much bad luck (apart from an Artest offensive rebound). But, that's just sort of the way it goes.

So. The reason the Suns haven't won a title in the Nash era is a combination of coming up against some very good teams, and catching some bad breaks along the way. Also, we have a terrible owner.

You can say kobes post shaq championships had bynum injured frequently as well.

those suns teams had great depth. no excuses. when you have that much talent and a two time mvp leading the way you should have at least reached the finals once. Nash has played with players such as dirk, finlay, jamison, marion, stat, joe johnson, barbosa, bell, diaw, jrich,shaq, carter, etc...

imo the reason he didnt win with phx was due to lack of defence. we all know defence wins championships and while those suns were very potent offensivley they were questionable on D.

one of my fav teams because they were soo dam entertaining so dont get me wrong im not hating on the suns in anyway. but i will agree the owner is terrible.

gcoll
04-14-2012, 04:45 PM
You can say kobes post shaq championships had bynum injured frequently as well.

those suns teams had great depth. no excuses. when you have that much talent and a two time mvp leading the way you should have at least reached the finals once. Nash has played with players such as dirk, finlay, jamison, marion, stat, joe johnson, barbosa, bell, diaw, shaq, carter, etc...

imo the reason he didnt win with phx was due to lack of defence. we all know defence wins championships and while those suns were very potent offensivley they were questionable on D.

one of my fav teams because they were soo dam entertaining so dont get me wrong im not hating on the suns in anyway. but i will agree the owner is terrible.
Bynum got injured.....but then they got Gasol.

Nash has played with great players. But again, to win a title you need a great team, and you need nothing to go wrong. The Suns have had a lot of things go wrong.

Cfrey
04-14-2012, 04:47 PM
Lol how is it a travesty at all??

Players had better seasons than Kobe its just that simple

thephoenixson28
04-14-2012, 04:55 PM
Kobe could never do it by himself. Not knocking him cuz I would want him on my team. Even Kobe was to be taken off the lakers, I could still see them making the playoffs. The MVP is for who is more valuable to there team, not who is the best player in the NBA. Steve Nash did only what 5 player(I think) that ever did. Shot 90% 50% 40% and took his team to a western conference finals 3 times. What has Kobe done alone, and had to make his team better. Nothing

thephoenixson28
04-14-2012, 04:58 PM
The MVP award stands for most "valuable" not necessarily the best player. People should stop ripping Steve Nash the guy was very valuable to his team. Plus they had the best record

Exactly.

last stand
04-14-2012, 05:11 PM
Kobe could never do it by himself. Not knocking him cuz I would want him on my team. Even Kobe was to be taken off the lakers, I could still see them making the playoffs. The MVP is for who is more valuable to there team, not who is the best player in the NBA. Steve Nash did only what 5 player(I think) that ever did. Shot 90% 50% 40% and took his team to a western conference finals 3 times. What has Kobe done alone, and had to make his team better. Nothing

nash was alone

joe johnson, shawn mario, and amare stoudemire have made all star teams without him. how was nash alone?

his 2nd MVP was somewhat deserved when joe left and amare went down and it was just him, marion, diaw, and bell.

also lets not bash kobe

kobe took steve nash's team to 7 games with kwame brown, smush parker, and luke walton starting. a line-up no star can ever even claim to have had to endure. not even lebron in cleveland.

THE MTL
04-14-2012, 05:16 PM
lol...From 2001 till 2009 Kobe was hands down the best player in the league.

Kobe not getting it in 2006 is a joke and you know it.

Best player in league from 2001 to 2009. NO WAY man.
Shaq won all the finals MVPs and was hands down BEST PLAYER on the Lakers!
2001 Allen Iverson EASILY best player in the whole NBA! You cannot argue with me on that one. Lead his team single-handedly to the finals.
2003 Tracy Mcgrady shitted on the entire league! Easily best player of that year.
2007 Lebron James single-handedly beat the whole Pistons squad to lead bums to the NBA Finals (back when Kobe was a selfish chucker).

Kobe only distinguished himself as the best player in the NBA. For a few seasons. I'll give him 2005, 2006, 2009.

I do think that he should have gotten in 2006. But you cannot argue with Steve Nash. Seriously, 50% FG 40% 3pt 90% FT. Averaging 19ppg 10.5apg on the BEST TEAM in the NBA (won 60 games) and also Amare missed that entire season. You cant argue with those facts!

When it comes down to it, there were simple more deserving players in the NBA each of those seasons. Yes, Kobe Bryant is an all time great Top 10 of all time easily, but you cannot argue with the winners of those seasons: Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Iverson, Nash, James, Rose.

Chronz
04-14-2012, 05:55 PM
Well Shaq deserved it over AI
Duncan and KG deserved theirs
Shaq deserved the first one Nash won
Dirk deserved Nash's second
Nash Deserved Dirks first
Kobe or CP3 deserved the 08
Bron owns the rest

That wraps up Kobes career.

If the awards were done right Shaq would have 3 in 2K era

Shaq was the best over Iverson but he didn't deserve it over AI not when both teams had the same record and Shaq had wayy more talent on his team than Iverson. Lebron deserved his in 2009 and 2010 and Rose deserved his in 2011 as the only allstar on his team.
No, no, and no

Shaqs impact for his teams ***** on AIs

smith&wesson
04-14-2012, 07:23 PM
no, no, and no

shaqs impact for his teams ***** on ais

+1

smith&wesson
04-14-2012, 07:28 PM
Bynum got injured.....but then they got Gasol.

Nash has played with great players. But again, to win a title you need a great team, and you need nothing to go wrong. The Suns have had a lot of things go wrong.

and you need defence...


Kobe could never do it by himself. Not knocking him cuz I would want him on my team. Even Kobe was to be taken off the lakers, I could still see them making the playoffs. The MVP is for who is more valuable to there team, not who is the best player in the NBA. Steve Nash did only what 5 player(I think) that ever did. Shot 90% 50% 40% and took his team to a western conference finals 3 times. What has Kobe done alone, and had to make his team better. Nothing

your right kobe could never do it by himself. but please tell me who could or better yet who has ?

you just said the lakers with out kobe would still make the playoffs. if im not mistaken bulls played ALOT of games with out rose this year yet the bulls still have the first seed in the the east am I right ?

stat, joe johnson & marion all in their prime couldnt make the playoffs ? dont act like nash acomplished so much on his own. he has played with some great rosters. yes there has been some missfortune but lets not act like nash was on the raptors all these years.

AIRMAR72
04-14-2012, 10:03 PM
2001: Its between him Iverson and Shaq. After the playoffs, its clear that Kobe was the best that season as Shaq clearly admitted in the following statement: "I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."

2002: Duncan was the league MVP, but Kobe won a championship and was the better individual talent.

2003: Duncan won it again, but Kobe was clearly the better individual talent still.

2004: Kobe was now the best player in the league and was the leader of the Lakers. He took them to the finals beating the league chosen MVP Garnet in the western conference finals. Kobe was clearly the better individual talent than KG.

2005: Kobe was on a horrible team and was injured for 1/4 of the season. Still, I don't know any players that were better individually than Kobe that year. Best player in the game still. By far a better individual talent than Nash.

2006: Clearly the best in the league...scored 81 in a game, averaged 35.4 ppg, 63 in 3 quarters. Still the NBA rewarded Nash over Kobe for a second time even though Nash would clearly get owned by Kobe 100 out of 100 times if they played one on one.

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.

2008: Kobe finally silenced his critics and won MVP proving he was the best player on the best team once he finally had a decent running mate.

2009: Lebron won it over Kobe because once again the league claimed that it was all about having the Cavs having a better record than the Lakers. Never mind that the Eastern Conference was a joke and that the Lakers could have won 70 games had they been in the east. Guess the league doesn't take into account the record of the teams you face. They also didn't take into account that The Lakers beat the Cavs both times they faced them that season. Kobe also clearly outmatched Lebron in both matchups aswell. Kobe had the last laugh as he went on the win the championship and proved that he really was the best player on the best team with his finals MVP.

all this for what were are going with this its all rubbish

C-Style
04-14-2012, 10:13 PM
He should have 3

AIRMAR72
04-14-2012, 10:40 PM
MVP: Most Valuable Player not best player award, take Kobe away from the Lakers in any year after Shaq left theyre drafting pretty early in the lottery he definitely deserves more than 1 MVP award

look I could tell you know better are else you wouldnt have repeated the word MVP and that kobe should have more than 1 MVP the trophy represent individual greatness D-fish is not better than Steve Nash with his 5rings or Bob Horry with his 7rings the Dream as 1MVP and THATS because he played when they were too many great players in the league at the sametime like today NBA players from 2003 draft class to THE present they are better players compare to players from 1993 draft class till 2002, now in 1997 when kobe came in league we all thought he would finish is career with 3 or more MVP but he struggle it took him about 6yrs to understand the NBA game kobe problem was his IQ for the game plus he wasnt the best at SG back than with guys like Tracy,Vince,allan kobe never really outplay are dominate those guys plus his stat dosent reflect greatness and at end of day numbers matter stern and his crew that(stats) is formula they use for reference not highlights but numbers that why kobe has 1MVP

amos1er
04-14-2012, 11:10 PM
Best player in league from 2001 to 2009. NO WAY man.
Shaq won all the finals MVPs and was hands down BEST PLAYER on the Lakers!
2001 Allen Iverson EASILY best player in the whole NBA! You cannot argue with me on that one. Lead his team single-handedly to the finals.
2003 Tracy Mcgrady shitted on the entire league! Easily best player of that year.
2007 Lebron James single-handedly beat the whole Pistons squad to lead bums to the NBA Finals (back when Kobe was a selfish chucker).

Kobe only distinguished himself as the best player in the NBA. For a few seasons. I'll give him 2005, 2006, 2009.

I do think that he should have gotten in 2006. But you cannot argue with Steve Nash. Seriously, 50% FG 40% 3pt 90% FT. Averaging 19ppg 10.5apg on the BEST TEAM in the NBA (won 60 games) and also Amare missed that entire season. You cant argue with those facts!

When it comes down to it, there were simple more deserving players in the NBA each of those seasons. Yes, Kobe Bryant is an all time great Top 10 of all time easily, but you cannot argue with the winners of those seasons: Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Iverson, Nash, James, Rose.


Actually the Suns won 54 games and were the 2 seed in the west.

In 2001 AI was not the best in the league. I would put Shaq and Kobe both ahead of him. His fg% was horrible and his defense was non existent. Shaq and Kobe led the Lakers to a 15-1 record in the playoffs. Kobe's numbers were insane in the playoffs that year 29, 6, and 7 I believe. Shaq even called Kobe the best in the league.

Fnom11
04-14-2012, 11:15 PM
How can still not understand the MVP doesn't go to the best player? It goes to the most valuable player on the top team in that particular season(regular season). The man still have 2 Finals MVPs which are 10000x more meaningful.

amos1er
04-14-2012, 11:19 PM
Exactly - if people are going to complain about Kobe/Shaq, then Lebron should be out of the MVP race as long as he is on the Heat with Wade.

I agree 100% Lebron gave up his rights to the MVP when he joined Wade in Miami. If you ask me, the Heat are underachieving this year anyways. They have two of the top five players in the league and are not even the best team. The Bulls, OKS, and the Spurs are all better IMO. If Lebron got it this year it would be a complete joke.

ManRam
04-14-2012, 11:33 PM
I agree 100% Lebron gave up his rights to the MVP when he joined Wade in Miami. If you ask me, the Heat are underachieving this year anyways. They have two of the top five players in the league and are not even the best team. The Bulls, OKS, and the Spurs are all better IMO. If Lebron got it this year it would be a complete joke.

your criteria for who the MVP award should go to seems to be so not-static....

LakersMaster24
04-14-2012, 11:55 PM
I agree with Hawkeye here. As much as I love Kobe, and I wish he would have more than 2 MVPs, I can understand him having only 1.

It can be argued that Kobe was a better player than certain players that won a MVP (cough cough Nash) but it can also be argued the other way around. Kobe was not a clear cut, hands down, best player for a lot of years during his career. If in 2005 lets say you ask me who I want on my team for one season I would probably choose Duncan, KG, or Kobe. There is no clear favorite. The only years that I would take Kobe over any player were probably 2006, 2008, and 2009 (for playoffs that year :p), and of course a lot of that has to do with me being a Lakers fan :laugh2:

The only year I think that Kobe got robbed was 2006. Actually, if someone besides Nash won that MVP I wouldn't be as disappointed, because IMO Nash simply did not deserve the award that year.

But hey, I am sure that Kobe would take the rings and the Finals MVPs over regular season MVP any day, so I guess it turned out to be a win win. :up:

P.S: Even with one MVP Kobe is a Top 7-10 player of all time, so it really says a lot about what the man has accomplished.

iggypop123
04-15-2012, 12:12 AM
I've given up analyzing and caring for awards. The final nail will come when thibedau will have more coach of the years than popovich and Jackson combined. There are a ton of politics in these awards

bljay29
04-15-2012, 12:15 AM
who cares about MVP's, its Rings that count.. he comes better then many there

llemon
04-15-2012, 01:11 AM
Lol how is it a travesty at all??

Players had better seasons than Kobe its just that simple

Wilt averaged 50 PPG and wasn't the MVP that season

LakersMaster24
04-15-2012, 05:42 AM
who cares about MVP's, its Rings that count.. he comes better then many there

Exactly.

CoffeeJanitor
04-15-2012, 06:08 AM
Here's why: Kobe has been consistently great but really only had a great argument for best player in the league once or twice. There are guys who beat him out in terms of individual performance on nearly every year of his career.

That's not really a knock against him though. He's been consistently awesome. And his best season came on a 7th seed team, and we all know you have to be top tier to win an MVP.

(they don't mean much though)

alencp3
04-15-2012, 07:48 AM
I still cant believe how he won that MVP over CP3 in 08'

C-Style
04-15-2012, 09:36 AM
From 2001-2009 how many players could say he:


had amazing footwork
can score in da midrange
can score on the low post
can score on the perimeter
can attack the basket
can hit free throws
can rebound(for his positon)
can defend
can pass
is clutch

is driven

Kobe mastered the game, other than Duncan there is no player who can say they were better offensively, played defense & was clutch.

willabeast77
04-15-2012, 11:48 AM
In all honesty Kobe should have no MVPs. He won MVP in 08's besides the voters felt he was due and Chris Paul was still "young"

LakersMaster24
04-16-2012, 12:46 AM
I still cant believe how he won that MVP over CP3 in 08'

Well I think your name on PSD says a lot about why you cant believe it.

NothingbutWill
04-16-2012, 02:57 AM
Well I think your name on PSD says a lot about why you cant believe it.

I thought CP3 should of won it that year over Kobe as well. Not hating on Kobe, he's one of the best players EVER to play the game of basketball.

I am surprised that Kobe only has 1 but whatever, he has achieved more then anybody in the league right now.

jam
04-16-2012, 03:21 AM
Kobe's career has been bookended by two of the most physically dominant players in the league: Shaq and now LeBron. Both players are much bigger, stronger and impact the game far more than Kobe ever could, even though he is more skilled than either.

Also, unlike Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Jordan, Magic or Bird, Kobe has never been the BEST in any given area of specialization in the game over the course of his career. Wilt dominated in every area; Kareem was the definition of consistent dominant scoring with his skyhook; Jordan had 10 scoring championships and a resume as long as a telephone book; Magic reinvented the point, Bird had the greatest all around skillset of any forward in the game.

Kobe has been an outstanding scorer, but "only" led the league in scoring twice. He's had just as many 24/25 ppg seasons as he's had 30 ppg seasons since the age of 22. He's been a very good passer, and a good rebounder, but his numbers have never been extraordinary in either area.

He loves to take big shots, but he misses a ton of shots in the last minute and last two minutes and misses most of his shots at the buzzer. He's a two time finals mvp but has shot the ball very poorly in both finals mvp series.

He also has definite difficulties with the concept of "teammate," on just about every level. He doesn't trust his teammates, doesn't like his teammates, rides them mercilessly and force them to bow down to him at every turn. He tends to instill fear rather than respect.

Add to that his sociopathic character flaws. He raped the girl in Colorado (yes, he did). And he did try to buy his way out of being prosecuted. And he did throw Shaq under the bus while doing so as well. Then, he had his wife hold his hand while he plead guilty to "infidelity" and sin before god.

He's a great player, but with regards to any sense of humanity and moral character, he is an utter abomination and disgrace.

Raph12
04-16-2012, 03:28 AM
Considering the fact that guys like Shaq, DRob and Dream only have one each, while Steve Nash has two, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-16-2012, 03:32 AM
Kobe's career has been bookended by two of the most physically dominant players in the league: Shaq and now LeBron. Both players are much bigger, stronger and impact the game far more than Kobe ever could, even though he is more skilled than either.

Also, unlike Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Jordan, Magic or Bird, Kobe has never been the BEST in any given area of specialization in the game over the course of his career. Wilt dominated in every area; Kareem was the definition of consistent dominant scoring with his skyhook; Jordan had 10 scoring championships and a resume as long as a telephone book; Magic reinvented the point, Bird had the greatest all around skillset of any forward in the game.

Kobe has been an outstanding scorer, but "only" led the league in scoring twice. He's had just as many 24/25 ppg seasons as he's had 30 ppg seasons since the age of 22. He's been a very good passer, and a good rebounder, but his numbers have never been extraordinary in either area.

He loves to take big shots, but he misses a ton of shots in the last minute and last two minutes and misses most of his shots at the buzzer. He's a two time finals mvp but has shot the ball very poorly in both finals mvp series.

He also has definite difficulties with the concept of "teammate," on just about every level. He doesn't trust his teammates, doesn't like his teammates, rides them mercilessly and force them to bow down to him at every turn. He tends to instill fear rather than respect.

Add to that his sociopathic character flaws. He raped the girl in Colorado (yes, he did). And he did try to buy his way out of being prosecuted. And he did throw Shaq under the bus while doing so as well. Then, he had his wife hold his hand while he plead guilty to "infidelity" and sin before god.

He's a great player, but with regards to any sense of humanity and moral character, he is an utter abomination and disgrace.


You were doing so well.

FAIL. :pity:

willabeast77
04-22-2012, 12:04 PM
Considering the fact that guys like Shaq, DRob and Dream only have one each, while Steve Nash has two, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Shaq should have about 3. He should have won in 99' and 01'

Chronz
04-22-2012, 12:47 PM
shaq should have about 3. He should have won in 99' and 01'

05?

willabeast77
04-22-2012, 12:53 PM
05?

True, I think he should have won in 05' as well.

LTS
04-22-2012, 01:01 PM
dbl post

LTS
04-22-2012, 01:01 PM
Good point. Can't believe that a guy as talented as Shaq only has one and Lebron already has 2.
We can probably attribute some Laker hate to Kobe and Shaq only having one MVP each. The award loses credibility to me when I think about the fact that Shaq and Kobe have only won it once.

Guess the price of success results in some regular season MVP award hating. :D

While Bryant probablt should of won one of Nash's Lebron has clearly dominated and both years he got his MVP awards so just because one goy who deserved it doesnt mean the next guy shouldnt get because Lebron clearly deserved his last two MVP awards

LTS
04-22-2012, 01:05 PM
Well I think your name on PSD says a lot about why you cant believe it.

I actually agree with him as well CP3 had a amazing year that year and you saying hes biased which he obviously is discounts you as well Lakermaster24

OC Knights #11
04-22-2012, 01:15 PM
MVP's mean nothing. . . He has 5 rings. . . Lebron has 0

LeMarcus
04-22-2012, 02:43 PM
Here we go again, an MVP thread turns into a rings comparison.

Kobe stans lol

Trueblue2
04-22-2012, 06:29 PM
Kobe only has one MVP because Steve Nash was playing out of his mind during the two seasons that Kobe had a legit shot at winning the award. And I'm saying this as a Laker fan.

Trueblue2
04-22-2012, 06:29 PM
Kobe only has one MVP because Steve Nash was playing out of his mind during the two seasons that Kobe had a legit shot at winning the award. And I'm saying this as a Laker fan.

Gibby
04-22-2012, 06:51 PM
well until shaq left he wasn't the best player on the team. after that his team was **** so he didnt get it.

EDIT: well his team wasnt bad but they werent near the top.

bulldog2683
04-22-2012, 09:02 PM
http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2011-12/index.html



Surely Kobe deserves more than one MVP...Out of all the all time greats, he has been robbed the most. Maybe its because of the Colorado incident, or maybe its just typical Laker jealousy. Whatever it is, its a travesty that a player of Kobe's caliber has only one MVP to speak of.

"MVP" Winners have come and gone. Kobe is still here.

In the end, people wear shirts that read "NBA Champions," not "NBA MVP." I have 5 of them from Kobe ;)

BULLSFAN0810
04-23-2012, 09:04 AM
"MVP" Winners have come and gone. Kobe is still here.

In the end, people wear shirts that read "NBA Champions," not "NBA MVP." I have 5 of them from Kobe ;)

with that said it will be a travesty that players like MJ,Shaq,Kobe as great as they are/were they will NEVER get the accolades they deserve > Each year for the past 8-10 years Kobe night in and night out was the MVP . Most of Shaq NBA life he was clearly the most dominate,and MJ needs no explanation . The bar was set with these guys, that if you were super ordinary out of this world you were over looked bc They Shaq Kobe MJ were too dominate and no one else could compete statiscally and physically..Nash had to win it when Shaq imo was in prime peek form and DOMINATED like none other(and imo Nash had one MVP year). MJ was robbed almost his whole NBA life,this guy averaged 30 for like 13 years and won Finals when ever he played it seemed. SO now you have guys like LBJ who over his NBA life will outclass Forementioned players with awards. over LBJ NBA life he will come off award wise more accomplished than MJ,SHAQ,KOBE and he isnt in their class even if you compare them age for age over their NBA life. IMo this will inflated LBJs importance to a point where he will be considered better on paper (and we all know ppl know a days , pay more attn to stats then actual gameplay)

dos132
04-23-2012, 09:21 AM
doesn't matter if he only got 1 mvp for the season, but still he got 5 ring and 2 MPV Championship award :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

dbramforskins21
04-23-2012, 09:23 AM
IDC if he wins another one, if he deserved another one or whatever...hes one of the GOAT. He has went from 2000 till now averaging atleast 26ppg. In 05, and 06 he average 35.4 and 31.6 ppg. Plus he has 5 rings...Plus he is loaded with money..I think he's okay sacrificing a individual trophy for rings.

dos132
04-23-2012, 09:24 AM
MVP's mean nothing. . . He has 5 rings. . . Lebron has 0

:clap:

joe1nas
04-23-2012, 03:56 PM
this is y i hate this website the kobe hate is ridiciolous how can yall say there wasnt a year where kobe was the best player in the leauge the guy has been the best player for the past decade i hear people naming t-mac carter and pierce r yall kidding me they were never better then kobe its not kobes fault he had to play with shaq and they were by themselves. we see what happen when shaq left he drops 35 a game but yall want to say t-mac and them were better **** outta here. hell i can make a case in 2002-2003 for kobe gettin mvp the kid was averging 30.ppg with shaq on his team but thats y he didnt get it

joe1nas
04-23-2012, 03:59 PM
He only has one because he wasn't really the undisputed "best player" (however that is measured - statistics, value to team, etc) during each year over the last decade. Why should it even matter? The greater feat is that he has been playing at an elite level for over 16 years. How many players can really say that (even among the greats)?

Awards/accolades like MVP and first team offense/defense should be taken with a grain of salt IMO. Simply too subjective. Either way, give me balanced scoring and team play over pointless regular season awards any day. If only Kobe could realize that...

kobe is a team player yall people get out of hand making it seem like kobe is a ballhogger u cant win 5 chips ball hoggin im sorry

LeMarcus
04-23-2012, 04:08 PM
C'mon man even legit hardcore lakers fan know Kobe's a ball hog. I don't know what tv your watching from but c'mon bruh be real.

joe1nas
04-23-2012, 04:27 PM
Shaq deserved it over Kobe any year they were both Lakers. He was simply the better and more dominant player. Post-Shaq era is when Kobe winning MVPs become possible.



Championships don't matter in the MVP discussion...again, leading me to suggest you don't get what the MVP award means, and also leading me to believe that you think he deserves some sort of lifetime achievement award...



Back that up, please. Not only was Duncan leading the Spurs to the best record in the NBA, but he was the better player. Just look at any stat that isn't PPG. Duncan trumped Kobe in WS, WS/48, PER. I mean, Duncan is a top 3, at the worst, PF of all time, and this was his peak. His team had more success...and again, if you consider what the MVP means, you'll understand why NO ONE thinks Duncan didn't deserve it.




Again, "best player in the league"...well...that's subjective. KG had a better individual year, and his team had a better year too :shrug: KG had almost 5 more win shares than the next closest player...he was UNREAL that year. I thought he had a better season, and again, factoring in team success, which the MVP concerns itself with, KG was an easy pick.



Horrible team, and missed 1/4th of the season. Case closed. Any other player and you wouldn't care. It's the MVP award...not the "best player when healthy and irregardless of team success award"



7 seed. I'm not gonna beat a dead horse...but team success matters.

Also, Dirk and LeBron had better seasons...KG probably had a better season too...

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.



Poor Kobe...took so long to "finally" have a decent running mate...

Paul had a better season, but, since it's the MVP award, not the "player who had the best individual season award", Kobe can have it. He was actually probably more deserving other years, and that's the funny thing. It wasn't at all his best season...his team just got better around him.



Well, a lot of people will tell you that LeBron had better individual regular seasons that Kobe those years...and I'd ask you to objectively tell me how that's not true.



All you're spewing is opinion...and that's fine...but when you act like opinion is fact, well, that's where you'll get into problems.

no in 2002-2003 and 2003-2004 kobe was better than shaq

TornadoOfSouls
04-23-2012, 04:35 PM
2001: Its between him Iverson and Shaq. After the playoffs, its clear that Kobe was the best that season as Shaq clearly admitted in the following statement: "I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."

2002: Duncan was the league MVP, but Kobe won a championship and was the better individual talent.

2003: Duncan won it again, but Kobe was clearly the better individual talent still.

2004: Kobe was now the best player in the league and was the leader of the Lakers. He took them to the finals beating the league chosen MVP Garnet in the western conference finals. Kobe was clearly the better individual talent than KG.

2005: Kobe was on a horrible team and was injured for 1/4 of the season. Still, I don't know any players that were better individually than Kobe that year. Best player in the game still. By far a better individual talent than Nash.

2006: Clearly the best in the league...scored 81 in a game, averaged 35.4 ppg, 63 in 3 quarters. Still the NBA rewarded Nash over Kobe for a second time even though Nash would clearly get owned by Kobe 100 out of 100 times if they played one on one.

2007: Dirk had a great season, but Kobe was a better player, just didn't have the team Dirk had...This was when the league started to say that its not about rewarding the best player in the league, its about the best player on the best team in the league.

2008: Kobe finally silenced his critics and won MVP proving he was the best player on the best team once he finally had a decent running mate.

2009: Lebron won it over Kobe because once again the league claimed that it was all about having the Cavs having a better record than the Lakers. Never mind that the Eastern Conference was a joke and that the Lakers could have won 70 games had they been in the east. Guess the league doesn't take into account the record of the teams you face. They also didn't take into account that The Lakers beat the Cavs both times they faced them that season. Kobe also clearly outmatched Lebron in both matchups aswell. Kobe had the last laugh as he went on the win the championship and proved that he really was the best player on the best team with his finals MVP.

lol at Kobe being the better individual talent in '02, '03, '04. Kobe was playing sidekick to Shaq those years while Duncan and Garnett were carrying a group of role players to 60 win seasons. And how the hell was Kobe the better individual talent. Duncan+scrubs eliminated Kobe's team in '03 when he had prime Shaq and the GOAT coach.

Horrible analysis. Cautionary advice to everyone: Ignore any user that proudly displays a DBZ avatar

teddygreen17
04-23-2012, 04:57 PM
Please don't confuse my statement with agreeing that he doesn't deserve more than 1 however. Steve ****ing Nash won 2. Really???

Also remember, the Kobe was with Shaq (thats going to kill you) and there are also other players in the league who played with far less talent that Kobe. Plus he's a shooting guard..

in the case of Steve Nash, he's a point guard and the numbers he put up in his MVP year were ridiculous..Also remember, he is orchestrating the offense, passing, shooting above 50% from the field and 90% from the line. Don't diminish what he did.

Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2005–06 Phoenix 79 79 35.4 .512 .439 .921 4.2 10.5 .8 .2 18.8
2006–07 Phoenix 76 76 35.3 .532 .455 .899 3.5 11.6 .8 .1 18.6

EYDI819
04-23-2012, 04:59 PM
Here is my unbiased opinion. I think Kobe and Shaq was good together, but when separated, they dont do much damage unless with better casts. Compare them to the past MVP's including casts.

92-93 – Barkley (Shaq Rookie Season)
93-94 – Olajuwon (Carried team Deserving)
94-95 – Robinson (Spurs #1 in the league)
95-96 – Jordan (GOAT)
96-97 – Malone (Kobe Rookie Season)
97-98 – Jordan (GOAT)
98-99 – Malone (Tied with Spurs as #1 in the league)
99-00 – O’neal (Most PPG carried Lakers to Finals) Deserving
00-01 – Iverson (Most PPG carried PHI to Finals w/ no cast) Deserving
01-02 – Duncan (25.5 ppg 12.5 rpg 3.7 apg 2.5 bpg Career highs at the time) Deserving
02-03 – Duncan (23.3 ppg 12.9 rpg 3.9 apg 2.9 bpg Spurs #1 in the league) Deserving
03-04 – Garnett (24.2 ppg 13.9 rpg 5 apg 2.2 bpg 1.5 spg MIN #2 in the league) Deserving
04-05 – Nash (PHO #1 in league w/ only Stoudamire in the team) Lakers not in playoffs Kobe out of argument in this year. Shaq had better cast
05-06 – Nash (PHO # 3 with Stoudamire injured. Cast of nobody’s in the Suns) Lakers 7th seed so out of MVP talks because of record. Shaq missed 18 games and Wade played better than him.
06-07 – Nowitzky (Mavs #1 in the league) Lakers 7th seed again so Kobe out of MVP talks. O’neal missed 35 games out of MVP talks
07-08 – Bryant (Lakers #1 in West)
08-09 – James (Cavs #1 in the league with nobody as a cast) Kobe have Pau Odom and Bynum and was still beaten by Cavs record wise. Shaq was declining.
09-10 – James (Cavs #1 again with James broke the record for being youngest to 15k points) Shaq joined Cavs as a ring chaser. Kobe still has better cast.
10-11 – Rose (CHI #1 in league carried by Rose) Rose was better than Kobe this year all around.

joe1nas
04-23-2012, 05:03 PM
He's only got one because he wasn't good enough to win more than that. Basically when he was with Shaq, Shaq was the MVP of that team. And when he was putting up his rediculous numbers, the team wasn't that good. Then LBJ arrived on the scene, and let's face it, LBJ is better than Kobe, so Kobe's window for MVP has closed.

If he was ever actually as good as Jordan, he would have won about six. But he's not, so he's got one.

And lets face it, Kobe, as often as he is the reason the Lakers won, is also the reason they LOST. This season is a great example. If Kobe was sharing the ball with Bynum and Gasol more, they'd have a better record. But there have been a number of games where Kobe has jacked up a bunch of ugly shots and shot well below 40% on the night, while Bynum ends up outsocring Kobe with half as many shots. Kobe should be playing into Bynum right now and encouraging Bynum to become dominant. But instead he's stunting Bynum's growth as a player because he's too busy looking for his own shots.

Cheers!

stfu and lebron is not better than kobe

Bruno
04-23-2012, 05:10 PM
Jerry West: zero mvps.
Shaq: One MVP
Dream: one MVP
Kobe: one MVP

regular season mvps has little impact on their legacies. everyone knows it's an extremely political award, so who cares. Finals MVPs is what matters. Notice, these four combine for three regular season MVPs, but eight Finals MVPs. how's history treatin' them?

Chronz
04-23-2012, 05:15 PM
Horrible analysis. Cautionary advice to everyone: Ignore any user that proudly displays a DBZ avatar

What about video game characters, they cool?

joe1nas
04-23-2012, 05:33 PM
C'mon man even legit hardcore lakers fan know Kobe's a ball hog. I don't know what tv your watching from but c'mon bruh be real.

he ball hogs when his team isn't on but yall make it seem like hes ai or something like he never plays team ball

LeMarcus
04-23-2012, 07:28 PM
He ball hogs regardless if his team is on or off.
Look at the numbers this year regarding Kobe's FGA oppose to other stars around the league.

FGM - FGA. FGA total
Kobe 9.9 - 23.0. 1336
Durant 9.8 - 19.6. 1255
Westbrook 8.6 - 19.3. 1233
Love 8.6 - 19.3. 1059

OKC has two of the top 5 leading scorers and they still manage to facilitate the ball to the two scorers.

Lakers teammates
Gasol 7.4-14.1. 917
Bynum 7.4-13.3. 796

And dont say when his team is on or off. The lakers without Kobe this year 5-2.
Bynum is the best bigman in the league.
Pau is still a very efficient player regardless of his "soft" stigma.

Sssmush
04-23-2012, 08:29 PM
MVP is kind of like a "most popular player" or "best league role model" contest, that should be fairly obvious by now.

fresh prince
04-23-2012, 08:36 PM
Kobe was never the best player in the league for a full season.

Say he wasn't the most efficient or something.. Saying he wasn't the best just makes you look dysfunctional.

fresh prince
04-23-2012, 08:57 PM
Shaq deserved it over Kobe any year they were both Lakers. He was simply the better and more dominant player. Post-Shaq era is when Kobe winning MVPs become possible.

.

Not really in the 2002 - 2003 season Kobe was the best player on the Lakers. This was the year Shaq started the season injured and chose to have surgery right before the season and rehab "on company time".

Kobe carried the Lakers for most of the year and went out an averaged :

30 PPG , 7 RPG , 6 APG, on 45 % and could have very well won DPOY that season as well.

Duncan deservedly won the MVP thanks to the SPurs winning 60 but this was Kobe's first season as a legit MVP candidate.

Bruno
04-23-2012, 09:19 PM
Not really in the 2002 - 2003 season Kobe was the best player on the Lakers. This was the year Shaq started the season injured and chose to have surgery right before the season and rehab "on company time".

Kobe carried the Lakers for most of the year and went out an averaged :

30 PPG , 7 RPG , 6 APG, on 45 % and could have very well won DPOY that season as well.

Duncan deservedly won the MVP thanks to the SPurs winning 60 but this was Kobe's first season as a legit MVP candidate.

x2. kobe beats out shaq in 2003 because of games played and minutes. Bryant lead in total win-shres, although Shaq led in PER and WS/48. shaq still produced at a higher level but Bryant played 866 more minutes and played in 15 more games. It would have taken Shaq an additional 22.5 regular season games at his 2003 minute per game average of 37.8 to have matched Bryant in total minutes.

shaq outperformed kobe by a lot in the 2003 playoffs, but were talking about regular season MVP here.

amos1er
04-23-2012, 10:08 PM
Here is my unbiased opinion. I think Kobe and Shaq was good together, but when separated, they dont do much damage unless with better casts. Compare them to the past MVP's including casts.

92-93 – Barkley (Shaq Rookie Season)
93-94 – Olajuwon (Carried team Deserving)
94-95 – Robinson (Spurs #1 in the league)
95-96 – Jordan (GOAT)
96-97 – Malone (Kobe Rookie Season)
97-98 – Jordan (GOAT)
98-99 – Malone (Tied with Spurs as #1 in the league)
99-00 – O’neal (Most PPG carried Lakers to Finals) Deserving
00-01 – Iverson (Most PPG carried PHI to Finals w/ no cast) Deserving
01-02 – Duncan (25.5 ppg 12.5 rpg 3.7 apg 2.5 bpg Career highs at the time) Deserving
02-03 – Duncan (23.3 ppg 12.9 rpg 3.9 apg 2.9 bpg Spurs #1 in the league) Deserving
03-04 – Garnett (24.2 ppg 13.9 rpg 5 apg 2.2 bpg 1.5 spg MIN #2 in the league) Deserving
04-05 – Nash (PHO #1 in league w/ only Stoudamire in the team) Lakers not in playoffs Kobe out of argument in this year. Shaq had better cast
05-06 – Nash (PHO # 3 with Stoudamire injured. Cast of nobody’s in the Suns) Lakers 7th seed so out of MVP talks because of record. Shaq missed 18 games and Wade played better than him.
06-07 – Nowitzky (Mavs #1 in the league) Lakers 7th seed again so Kobe out of MVP talks. O’neal missed 35 games out of MVP talks
07-08 – Bryant (Lakers #1 in West)
08-09 – James (Cavs #1 in the league with nobody as a cast) Kobe have Pau Odom and Bynum and was still beaten by Cavs record wise. Shaq was declining.
09-10 – James (Cavs #1 again with James broke the record for being youngest to 15k points) Shaq joined Cavs as a ring chaser. Kobe still has better cast.
10-11 – Rose (CHI #1 in league carried by Rose) Rose was better than Kobe this year all around.

The Cavs did not beat the Lakers record wise because they faced weaker teams in the east. Thats why you simply can't judge by overall record, because if you are in an easier conference its easier win games. The Lakers BTW beat the Cavs in both of their matchups that year.

In 2006 Kobe deserved it. Who cares that the Lakers were the 7 seed. The award is called "the most valuable player award", not the "best player on the best team award". Kobe shouldn't be punished because his team sucked. he should be judged by what he had to work with and how far he took them. Most of the starting line-up he had that year were D-Leaguers...its a miracle he got them into the playoffs. He broke countless scoring records that year including 81 points in a game and 62 in 3 quarters. He averaged 35 ppg, something that no one has been able to do since Jordan. Kareem was awarded his FOURTH MVP in the 75-76 season when he didn't even make the playoffs. Surely back then, they were still giving the award to the actual most valuable player, not the best player on the best team award or whatever the morph it into to justify not giving it to Kobe.

Chronz
04-23-2012, 11:57 PM
Not really in the 2002 - 2003 season Kobe was the best player on the Lakers. This was the year Shaq started the season injured and chose to have surgery right before the season and rehab "on company time".
Best player or most healthy player? And yes that was the season Shaq decided to get the surgery that would get him back on the court sooner rather than properly correct the problem. What an idiot huh.


Kobe carried the Lakers for most of the year and went out an averaged :

30 PPG , 7 RPG , 6 APG, on 45 % and could have very well won DPOY that season as well.

Those stats are great but Duncan-Shaq-Tmac-KG all had better. DPOY? For what?

fresh prince
04-24-2012, 12:29 AM
Best player or most healthy player? And yes that was the season Shaq decided to get the surgery that would get him back on the court sooner rather than properly correct the problem. What an idiot huh.



Both...


Shaq decided to get the surgery that would get him back on the court sooner rather than properly correct the problem. What an idiot huh.

Shaq should have gotten surgery much earlier in the off season was the issue. Not what type of surgery he had. Deez wanted to take exotic trips all summer long so he waited til the weather cooled down then had the surgery and famously made the decision that since he got "hurt on company time he would heal on company time".


DPOY? For what?

For playing really good defense. Ben Wallace deserved to win for sure but if they gave a conference DPOY Kobe or Doug Christie would have won it.

krrys11
04-24-2012, 07:45 AM
Last time a person won MVP and a title was back in 03 ...Duncan.
If you ask Kobe to choose between them...he would not even blink.
All he cares about is Rings. Thats how he makes history.
We as fans should just appriciate we can watch it happen.

As someone mention before MVP is given for 82 games in season. Not for one when you score 81points. Not for one when you score 12 3pts. But for 82 ...in 2006 Lakers didnt do well enough for their leader to win MVP.
For me MVP should be a player who brings his team to winning the league at the end of regular season.

HouRealCoach
04-24-2012, 09:16 AM
lol...From 2001 till 2009 Kobe was hands down the best player in the league.

Kobe not getting it in 2006 is a joke and you know it.

They got it right in 2001 with Iverson but from 96 to 2004 Kobe wasn't even the best player on his team...

2005.. He didn't deserve it
2006.. You can make an arguement but his team was 6th seed and Nash played out of his mind
2007.. Dirk OWNED that year
2008.. Chris Paul was ROBBED and Kobe DID NOT deserve it
2009.. LeBron EASILY
2010.. LeBron EASILY
2011.. Rose EASILY

People act like Kobe should have about 4 MVP's but only can make a case for 2006

HouRealCoach
04-24-2012, 09:26 AM
The Cavs did not beat the Lakers record wise because they faced weaker teams in the east. Thats why you simply can't judge by overall record, because if you are in an easier conference its easier win games. The Lakers BTW beat the Cavs in both of their matchups that year.

In 2006 Kobe deserved it. Who cares that the Lakers were the 7 seed. The award is called "the most valuable player award", not the "best player on the best team award". Kobe shouldn't be punished because his team sucked. he should be judged by what he had to work with and how far he took them. Most of the starting line-up he had that year were D-Leaguers...its a miracle he got them into the playoffs. He broke countless scoring records that year including 81 points in a game and 62 in 3 quarters. He averaged 35 ppg, something that no one has been able to do since Jordan. Kareem was awarded his FOURTH MVP in the 75-76 season when he didn't even make the playoffs. Surely back then, they were still giving the award to the actual most valuable player, not the best player on the best team award or whatever the morph it into to justify not giving it to Kobe.

:facepalm:

Once again u are only making a case for 2006... Even if he was robbed that year he made up for it in 2008 by robbing Chris Paul

How many MVP's do you guys want Kobe to have? lol

celtNYpatsHeels
04-24-2012, 11:02 AM
I think he is more concerned with his 5 rings than his 1 MVP

ChicagoJ
04-24-2012, 11:09 AM
MVP isn't a perfect award. I remember when MJ was playing in his prime when the bulls were a great team, it seemed he should probably win it every year. He was hands down the most deserving player each season. But, they had to spread it around a bit so other guys like Karl Malone got the nod. Kobe should have won more, but it's not a perfect award.

Chronz
04-24-2012, 11:58 AM
Both...

Then your half wrong.


Shaq should have gotten surgery much earlier in the off season was the issue. Not what type of surgery he had. Deez wanted to take exotic trips all summer long so he waited til the weather cooled down then had the surgery and famously made the decision that since he got "hurt on company time he would heal on company time".
LOL what? Even if he had gotten the surgery Dr's were recommending from day 1 he would have been out even longer, he was taking his time getting second opinions and weighing his options, he said what he did in frustration but even if he was somewhat at fault it doesnt change the fact that he took the route that got him on the court SOONER rather than correct the problem.
And he knows his body better than anyone, why would anyone care about you thinking you know whats best for him and the team? Facts are he put the team first rather than his career, yet you blame him because of the backlash towards management?



For playing really good defense. Ben Wallace deserved to win for sure but if they gave a conference DPOY Kobe or Doug Christie would have won it.
I didnt see that really good defense, I saw hints of good defense mixed with hints of poor defense, lots of players played good defense. What are you basing Kobe making it on?

JordansBulls
04-24-2012, 12:01 PM
Not really in the 2002 - 2003 season Kobe was the best player on the Lakers. This was the year Shaq started the season injured and chose to have surgery right before the season and rehab "on company time".

Kobe carried the Lakers for most of the year and went out an averaged :

30 PPG , 7 RPG , 6 APG, on 45 % and could have very well won DPOY that season as well.

Duncan deservedly won the MVP thanks to the SPurs winning 60 but this was Kobe's first season as a legit MVP candidate.

No way he deserved MVP that year. That is a team that only won 50 games that was a 3x champ and was a 5th seed. Not to mention the Lakers were 5-10 the games Shaq was out.

JordansBulls
04-24-2012, 12:02 PM
I think Dirk is another guy who should have gotten more consideration in 2006. Led team to 60 wins and had the best numbers in the league. Nash got it and didn't even have the best numbers on his team and they only won 54 games.

8kobe24
04-24-2012, 12:07 PM
Because the NBA/media or whoever changes their definition of MVP every year, really, I was surprised Kobe even got one.

miller74
04-24-2012, 12:09 PM
Kobe only has 1 because he wasnt the best player on his team until Shaq left.

fresh prince
04-24-2012, 12:28 PM
No way he deserved MVP that year. That is a team that only won 50 games that was a 3x champ and was a 5th seed. Not to mention the Lakers were 5-10 the games Shaq was out.

I never said he deserved MVP that season.

This post was in response to the notion that Kobe was never the best player on the Lakers. Which in 2022 - 2003 he definitely was.

fresh prince
04-24-2012, 01:52 PM
Then your half wrong.


LOL what? Even if he had gotten the surgery Dr's were recommending from day 1 he would have been out even longer, he was taking his time getting second opinions and weighing his options, he said what he did in frustration but even if he was somewhat at fault it doesnt change the fact that he took the route that got him on the court SOONER rather than correct the problem.
And he knows his body better than anyone, why would anyone care about you thinking you know whats best for him and the team? Facts are he put the team first rather than his career, yet you blame him because of the backlash towards management?





I'm not blaming the Shaqster for anything. I'm merely stating Kobe was the best player on the Lakers that season. He just played better than Shaq. Bryant was brilliant on offense ( 30 PPG and 6 Assists per game) and played Jack Black D - whereas Shaq that season more so than ever used the defensive end of the floor to rest up for offense. Its understandable he was coming off foot surgery , was out of shape and not as mobile.

Defensive rebounds per game

Kobe: 5.6
Shaq: 7.2 ( career low at the time)


I didnt see that really good defense, I saw hints of good defense mixed with hints of poor defense, lots of players played good defense. What are you basing Kobe making it on?

Kobe and Doug Christie were 1-2 in opponents FG% defense that season. And while steals are sometimes a result of bad defense and typically not a good "defense indicator" they are a valuable measurement for elite on ball defenders ( which Kobe was at the time) he posted a career high 2.2 that year.

kdspurman
04-24-2012, 02:24 PM
Because the NBA/media or whoever changes their definition of MVP every year, really, I was surprised Kobe even got one.

Totally off topic- I'm amazed at your sig LOL... Must be why the word on MWP is not out yet

Stinkyoutsider
04-24-2012, 02:25 PM
I always have to remember who gets to vote for regular season MVPs and how difficult it is to get it absolutely right every season. 82 games is tough, 7 is easier (finals MVP).

I can't assume every journalist is 100% unbiased with their voting. Maybe Kobe rubbed them the wrong way a few times during the season. Maybe some of them don't like Kobe. Some of these voters make it personal based on interactions...

JesusWears24
04-24-2012, 03:09 PM
Maybe he wasn't the best in other seasons? :shrug:

He was the best player from 2001 to 2010. The fact that he has one shows that the regular season MVP is worthless.

Chronz
04-24-2012, 03:12 PM
I'm not blaming the Shaqster for anything. I'm merely stating Kobe was the best player on the Lakers that season. He just played better than Shaq. Bryant was brilliant on offense ( 30 PPG and 6 Assists per game) and played Jack Black D - whereas Shaq that season more so than ever used the defensive end of the floor to rest up for offense. Its understandable he was coming off foot surgery , was out of shape and not as mobile.

Defensive rebounds per game

Kobe: 5.6
Shaq: 7.2 ( career low at the time)



Kobe and Doug Christie were 1-2 in opponents FG% defense that season. And while steals are sometimes a result of bad defense and typically not a good "defense indicator" they are a valuable measurement for elite on ball defenders ( which Kobe was at the time) he posted a career high 2.2 that year.

Very well, I respect your position even if I disagree with it entirely.

Wade>You
04-24-2012, 03:14 PM
NBA awards are too important to be decided by sports pundits.

amos1er
04-24-2012, 03:39 PM
:facepalm:

Once again u are only making a case for 2006... Even if he was robbed that year he made up for it in 2008 by robbing Chris Paul

How many MVP's do you guys want Kobe to have? lol

You actually believe that CP3 was robbed in 2008....hahahahaahahahahaha

You're on a very lone island on that one buddy.

The Lakers had the better record and Kobe was the best player in the league. There was one game in particular that year where the Lakers faced the Hornets and the 1 seed was on the line. Kobe stepped up that game and clearly was the better player and the Lakers won that game. Even Larry Bird came out that year and said that Kobe not getting the MVP would make him want to give him his back.

I don't know why you're saying that people on here are saying that Kobe deserves 4 MVP's. You actually need to read the title of the thread and it says "how can Kobe only have "one" MVP". Just saying that a player of his caliber deserves more than one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi6IOZ_lriU

fresh prince
04-24-2012, 04:32 PM
Very well, I respect your position even if I disagree with it entirely.

:cheers:

Bruno
04-24-2012, 04:34 PM
No way he deserved MVP that year. he's not saying kobe deserved MVP that year. he just said he deserved it over Shaq (not Duncan) considering Shaqs total games played.


That is a team that only won 50 games that was a 3x champ and was a 5th seed. Not to mention the Lakers were 5-10 the games Shaq was out.

would you expect anything different? without Shaq, Kobe had a supporting cast of Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Devean George, Samaki Walker, Brian Shaw, Mark Madsen, Kareem Rush, S. Madvedenko, Pargo, and Tracy Murry. Derek Fisher was 3rd on the 2003 Lakers in win-shares and no player besides Shaq or Kobe had a PER above 12.4 (league average 15.0). also, that that team was coming off three straight finals appearances and had dead legs for the season.

Rain City
04-24-2012, 04:51 PM
Kobe went through a big selfish phase that harshed him in voting, Steve Nash put up MVP stats on a winning team despite not playing any defense so i think he was easier to vote for. It is not like winning an MVP is easy with guys like Duncan, KG, and Lebron around.

SHaq only got 1 MVP, Griffey also, these guys are all time greats, top players in their era.

dh144498
04-25-2012, 03:05 PM
Kobe didn't make that team "insanely" better? Do you realize he took that team to the playoffs and went to game 7 against the Suns and the starting lineup was Smush Parker, Kobe Bryant, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, and Kwame Brown?

greatest team ever assembled!!!:worthy::worthy:

JK


shame those MVP votes were probably affected by Kobe's off-court reputation. Should have won at least another MVP. :clap:

SportsAndrew25
04-25-2012, 03:10 PM
The problem is that Kobe played in an era which had Jordan, then Shaq, and then Lebron and as someone mentioned, his best years where years when he was on teams which were as not good as the Shaq-Kobe dynasty.

raiderNlakerfan
04-25-2012, 03:15 PM
as a fan i would of liked more kobe mvp awards.. but idc anymore.. i will take his 5 rings over any amount of mvps

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-25-2012, 03:56 PM
Overtime, the MVP trophy has lost its value in some ways. It's now more media dominated than it ever has been, and what these analysts and media people tend to do is play this game of INCEPTION with us, they basically plant the idea of who they want as MVP into our minds as fans before the season ever even starts. So yeah, in a way, I think the feel and the fun factor of what used to be as the anticipation of who's going to get it and in which fashion is now gone sadly.