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View Full Version : Joakim Noah...Dont ever say he's Top-10



waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 10:47 PM
What happened to this guy? I realize Omer Aseik is a good BACKUP Center but DAMN he has fallen off like crazy and lost a ton of his minutes. There were some people calling him a top-5 Center before the season. His offense is terrible, he is a meh free throw shooter, he is not rebounding like he used to, not blocking shots like he used to and he has gotten owned against some of the better centers in the league this year.

redwhitenblue
04-12-2012, 10:48 PM
Are we basing this off of one game?

tredigs
04-12-2012, 10:49 PM
What happened to this guy? I realize Omer Aseik is a good BACKUP Center but DAMN he has fallen off like crazy and lost a ton of his minutes. There were some people calling him a top-5 Center before the season. His offense is terrible, he is a meh free throw shooter, he is not rebounding like he used to, not blocking shots like he used to and he has gotten owned against some of the better centers in the league this year.

Can you name 7 centers that were clearly better than him last season and your reasons why it was asinine for people to consider him as a top 5? Please include stats and consider defensive impact. Thank you.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 10:52 PM
Are we basing this off of one game?
No off an entire year

redwhitenblue
04-12-2012, 10:53 PM
No off an entire year
He was beasting up until very recently

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 10:53 PM
Can you name 7 centers that were clearly better than him last season and your reasons why it was asinine for people to consider him as a top 5? Please include stats and consider defensive impact. Thank you.

I'll let you do the leg work. WHAT HAPPENED to him has nothing to do with other centers in the league. Tho I can easily name 7 more productive Centers in the game today.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 10:55 PM
He was beasting up until very recently

ESPN analysis of Noah's production



Noah's production has been up-and-down all season and is down slightly across the boards,

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3224/joakim-noah

redwhitenblue
04-12-2012, 10:57 PM
ESPN analysis of Noah's production




http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3224/joakim-noah
So slightly down (mostly from a poor start to the season) equals fallen off like crazy?

effen5
04-12-2012, 10:57 PM
Well this is a huge thread fail.

GSWFanInLA
04-12-2012, 10:58 PM
What happened to this guy? I realize Omer Aseik is a good BACKUP Center but DAMN he has fallen off like crazy and lost a ton of his minutes. There were some people calling him a top-5 Center before the season. His offense is terrible, he is a meh free throw shooter, he is not rebounding like he used to, not blocking shots like he used to and he has gotten owned against some of the better centers in the league this year.

???

He is a 74% FT shooter. Solid for a center.

Averaging 9.6 rebounds compared to 10.4 last season. Solid for 30 MPG.

1.4 blocks a game(compared to 1.5 last season). Again solid averages.

Sactown
04-12-2012, 10:58 PM
I've always said Noah was inconsistent, but Bulls fans *****ed at me for it lol :laugh: finally someone else is noticing it too

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:00 PM
So slightly down (mostly from a poor start to the season) equals fallen off like crazy?

All Across the board=alot

redwhitenblue
04-12-2012, 11:01 PM
Someone name a consistent C and I'll show you a bunch of poor games.

Dwight Howard is the closest thing, hell Bynum goes through stretches of ****.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:02 PM
???

He is a 74% FT shooter. Solid for a center.

Averaging 9.6 rebounds compared to 10.4 last season. Solid for 30 MPG.

1.4 blocks a game(compared to 1.5 last season). Again solid averages.

With his calling card being defense and rebounding and what he hangs his hat on and built his reputation those numbers are disappointing. Not to mention how he is pimped by alot of analyst. Even CB is down on this guy and he is his biggest fan.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:04 PM
Someone name a consistent C and I'll show you a bunch of poor games.

Dwight Howard is the closest thing, hell Bynum goes through stretches of ****.

You gotta be kidding. Some of Bynum's low points are better than Noah's high point. I'm not just bashing him for no reason. I've even heard Barkley getting on him this year.

redwhitenblue
04-12-2012, 11:04 PM
Being that Asik is a year more experienced, he's earned a few more minutes, taking a bit away from Noah. Add in a fully healthy Boozer who's rebounding better and that's hte drop in rebounding.

D-Leethal
04-12-2012, 11:04 PM
Someone name a consistent C and I'll show you a bunch of poor games.

Dwight Howard is the closest thing, hell Bynum goes through stretches of ****.

I think T.Chandler is somewhere in the dictionary next to consistent.

Swashcuff
04-12-2012, 11:06 PM
With his calling card being defense and rebounding and what he hangs his hat on and built his reputation those numbers are disappointing. Not to mention how he is pimped by alot of analyst. Even CB is down on this guy and he is his biggest fan.

You start a thread and then tell another poster to do the leg work? :confused:

Dude could you please give reason as to why you think Joakim Noah is such a horrible player because thus far I don't see anything other than your opinion in this one.

redwhitenblue
04-12-2012, 11:06 PM
You're wrong. Tyson is no more consistent than Noah.

GSWFanInLA
04-12-2012, 11:07 PM
With his calling card being defense and rebounding and what he hangs his hat on and built his reputation those numbers are disappointing. Not to mention how he is pimped by alot of analyst. Even CB is down on this guy and he is his biggest fan.

You said he had fallen off like crazy which is far from the truth.

His Per36 minute stats are better than last year.

His assists, rebounds, and blocks have all gone up from last year.

llemon
04-12-2012, 11:08 PM
Guys, it's just wavy.

Not the most knowledgeable NBA fan.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:09 PM
You start a thread and then tell another poster to do the leg work? :confused:

Dude could you please give reason as to why you think Joakim Noah is such a horrible player because thus far I don't see anything other than your opinion in this one.

When did I say he was horrible? He is solid. I'm saying he isn't an elite center or top-10. When his own coach seems to think his backups are as good it's time to throw that idea out the window.

Swashcuff
04-12-2012, 11:10 PM
Being that Asik is a year more experienced, he's earned a few more minutes, taking a bit away from Noah. Add in a fully healthy Boozer who's rebounding better and that's hte drop in rebounding.

The kind of people that would knock Noah for his rebounding are the same that would knock Rose for his APG. Despite Noah not averaging more RPG the Bulls are still the #1 rebounding team in the league by a favourable margin and despite Derrick Rose not being Rondo or Nash when it comes to passing the Bulls are still one of the best teams in terms of ball movement and APG and had Rose been more healthy they'd be near the best in that regard.

I don't understand why people start threads when they haven't even attempted to properly analyze a player and his team before even starting to bash said player or team. :pity:

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:10 PM
You said he had fallen off like crazy which is far from the truth.

His Per36 minute stats are better than last year.

His assists, rebounds, and blocks have all gone up from last year.

PER36=fictional stats.

redwhitenblue
04-12-2012, 11:11 PM
When did I say he was horrible? He is solid. I'm saying he isn't an elite center or top-10. When his own coach seems to think his backups are as good it's time to throw that idea out the window.
So Rose isn't a top 10 PG?

BullsFTW
04-12-2012, 11:12 PM
waveycrockett...sir you're an idiot.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:13 PM
So Rose isn't a top 10 PG?

I didnt realize Noah was dealing with Back, Ankle, Groin injuries and missed 9 of his last 10 and out of game shape.

D1JM
04-12-2012, 11:13 PM
The kind of people that would knock Noah for his rebounding are the same that would knock Rose for his APG. Despite Noah not averaging more RPG the Bulls are still the #1 rebounding team in the league by a favourable margin and despite Derrick Rose not being Rondo or Nash when it comes to passing the Bulls are still one of the best teams in terms of ball movement and APG and had Rose been more healthy they'd be near the best in that regard.

I don't understand why people start threads when they haven't even attempted to properly analyze a player and his team before even starting to bash said player or team. :pity:

Because they like to troll and trust their naked eye

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:14 PM
waveycrockett...sir you're an idiot.

Truth hurts man.

Swashcuff
04-12-2012, 11:14 PM
When did I say he was horrible? He is solid. I'm saying he isn't an elite center or top-10. When his own coach seems to think his backups are as good it's time to throw that idea out the window.

I guess Derrick Rose isn't an Elite or top 10 PG either right?

Could you please give us some facts as to why Noah isn't top 10. Its your thread so it would help your cause if you can actually back your opinion.

LGhost
04-12-2012, 11:14 PM
You gotta be kidding. Some of Bynum's low points are better than Noah's high point. I'm not just bashing him for no reason. I've even heard Barkley getting on him this year.

Noah with the triple double

flclfanman
04-12-2012, 11:15 PM
Yeah he's had a **** game against MIA today, but the guy still brings it with his Energy and defense. Not to mention he's competing with Booz/Taj/Asik for Boards every minute.

He'll bounce back next game. If he was really stinking it up Asik would be taking most of his mins. That hasn't been the case since the ASG :laugh2:

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:15 PM
Because they like to troll and trust their naked eye

I'm not trolling and I didn't realize this was the Bulls forum. Seems to me Bulls fans have swarmed to this thread are coming off butt hurt instead of defending their point.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:17 PM
Noah with the triple double

In case you missed Bynum's 30 rebound game NBA TV has it on replay.

Rosh
04-12-2012, 11:17 PM
Poster sees one nationally televised game and makes a blanket assumption. Fresh.

flclfanman
04-12-2012, 11:17 PM
I didnt realize Noah was dealing with Back, Ankle, Groin injuries and missed 9 of his last 10 and out of game shape.

He went thru all that crap last year. But still, a couple of bad games doesn't change what a player gives you LONG TERM.

I'm SO happy we to Noah over Hawes in 07' :phew:

Rosh
04-12-2012, 11:18 PM
I'm not trolling and I didn't realize this was the Bulls forum. Seems to me Bulls fans have swarmed to this thread are coming off butt hurt instead of defending their point.


Where was this thread the last time they played the Heat? Or how about every game since mid-January when he finally got over his slump?

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:18 PM
Poster sees one nationally televised game and makes a blanket assumption. Fresh.

Uhh I've been following dude all year. I got $600 riding on him and Boozer this week actually.

Hester23Jordan
04-12-2012, 11:21 PM
This is the same idiot that claims Brook Lopez is a better center than Bynum. Go away and stop being a hater.

oak2455
04-12-2012, 11:21 PM
I'll take him on the Knicks

The Final Boss
04-12-2012, 11:22 PM
He was beasting up until very recently

Beasting and playing tough are two totally different descriptions. He has never beasted.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:22 PM
Yeah he's had a **** game against MIA today, but the guy still brings it with his Energy and defense. Not to mention he's competing with Booz/Taj/Asik for Boards every minute.

He'll bounce back next game. If he was really stinking it up Asik would be taking most of his mins. That hasn't been the case since the ASG :laugh2:

Funny thing is he wasn't even having a bad game. He just got yanked for Aseik who really wasn't playing any better. Even Kerr was calling for his name for the final 20 minutes. He is a solid player for sure but how can you be a top-10 center when your own coach doesn't seem to think so.

Blitzbolt
04-12-2012, 11:23 PM
I had a Marc Gasol is better then NOAH fight with some bulls fans a long time ago but you can't say anything bad about them because they are so sensitive.

Noah is a piece in a puzzel he is a scrub if you put in a bad team.

flclfanman
04-12-2012, 11:23 PM
Uhh I've been following dude all year. I got $600 riding on him and Boozer this week actually.

Ok so there's money involved, now this thread makes since :rolleyes:

oak2455
04-12-2012, 11:24 PM
where is DoMeFavors???

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:25 PM
This is the same idiot that claims Brook Lopez is a better center than Bynum. Go away and stop being a hater.

Hating? Yes I'm hating he's not playing more over Omer Aseik.:rolleyes:

flclfanman
04-12-2012, 11:28 PM
Funny thing is he wasn't even having a bad game. He just got yanked for Aseik who really wasn't playing any better. Even Kerr was calling for his name for the final 20 minutes. He is a solid player for sure but how can you be a top-10 center when your own coach doesn't seem to think so.

But how do you know his coach doesn't think he's top-10? There are different match ups for different players, so Thibs went with Asik's length over Noah's athleticism. It's not the end of the world :laugh2:

Still my point stands. Despite this game Bulls fans would MUCH rather go with Noah than to trade him or not have him at all.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:31 PM
But how do you know his coach doesn't think he's top-10? There are different match ups for different players, so Thibs went with Asik's length over Noah's athleticism. It's not the end of the world :laugh2:

Still my point stands. Despite this game Bulls fans would MUCH rather go with Noah than to trade him or not have him at all.

Bulls fans can't seem to separate criticism from bashing. No one said Noah sucks. He is a solid player he just isn't anything special. I'd want him on my team but for a player that got as much hype as he had the past 2 years, put in elite category, I expected more especially with Rose out.

Swashcuff
04-12-2012, 11:34 PM
Bulls fans can't seem to separate criticism from bashing. No one said Noah sucks. He is a solid player he just isn't anything special. I'd want him on my team but for a player that got as much hype as he had the past 2 years, put in elite category, I expected more especially with Rose out.

I am not a Bulls fans. Most Bulls fans hate me because I attack their homerism but I have NEVER seen ANYONE put Joakim Noah in an elite category. What on earth are you talking about?

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 11:39 PM
I am not a Bulls fans. Most Bulls fans hate me because I attack their homerism but I have NEVER seen ANYONE put Joakim Noah in an elite category. What on earth are you talking about?

I've heard Charles Barkley call him the next Dennis Rodman, a HOF player. Thats an NBA analyst. I don't think I need to dig up any threads to prove there have been plenty of people who called him a top-5/top-10 center.

Kashmir13579
04-12-2012, 11:41 PM
He is still top 10 in rebounding and 2nd in offensive rebounding. The guys plays his heart out on every play it seems. On offense you can't expect much but he's a basically a guaranteed 10pts on 50% shooting. Its not like he's a liability.

I would really like the Noah if he wasn't a Bull. I think he might be in the midst of his best season yet. Top 10 center.

Swashcuff
04-12-2012, 11:42 PM
I've heard Charles Barkley call him the next Dennis Rodman, a HOF player. Thats an NBA analyst. I don't think I need to dig up any threads to prove there have been plenty of people who called him a top-5/top-10 center.

Top 5/ top 10 is NOT elite. Elite is Dwight Howard and now Andrew Bynum. Gallinari is a top 10 SF is he elite?

So what if Charles called him the next Rodman. No one in their right minds takes Charles Barkley seriously anymore. :pity:

rhymeratic
04-12-2012, 11:44 PM
Noah to me is a slightly better version of Emeka Okafor... Now that he no longer is a hustle/energy guy consistently, his warts are starting to show. Not a big deal... he isn't the problem... Boozer is. Get rid of that cancer and put a real PF next to Noah and Bulls will be all set.

Hester23Jordan
04-12-2012, 11:44 PM
Bulls fans can't seem to separate criticism from bashing. No one said Noah sucks. He is a solid player he just isn't anything special. I'd want him on my team but for a player that got as much hype as he had the past 2 years, put in elite category, I expected more especially with Rose out.

Your point is that Noah doesn't belong in the category of being a top 10 center in the league. As a Bulls fan, I will tell you that Noah is not an ELITE player and the hype he gets is mostly due to playing on such a good team and large market. However, that doesn't mean he isn't a very good Center or doesn't belong in the top 10 discussion. I believe he makes any team better while not putting up outstanding stats. His defense, energy, and hustle is enough to make him a valuable piece.

As being a top 10 center? It is hard to decide, but he is definitely on the border line, which is very reasonable IMO. At least he can stay healthy and rebound unlike your center.

oak2455
04-12-2012, 11:44 PM
He is still top 10 in rebounding and 2nd in offensive rebounding. The guys plays his heart out on every play it seems. On offense you can't expect much but he's a basically a guaranteed 10pts on 50% shooting. Its not like he's a liability.

I would really like the Noah if he wasn't a Bull. I think he might be in the midst of his best season yet. Top 10 center.

agreed Kash this thread is dooooo dooooooo:speechless:

oak2455
04-12-2012, 11:45 PM
He is still top 10 in rebounding and 2nd in offensive rebounding. The guys plays his heart out on every play it seems. On offense you can't expect much but he's a basically a guaranteed 10pts on 50% shooting. Its not like he's a liability.

I would really like the Noah if he wasn't a Bull. I think he might be in the midst of his best season yet. Top 10 center.
dupe

eibbor
04-12-2012, 11:46 PM
this is an easy problem to fix. If he ever shoots any shot other than a free throw it should be from 6 inches away on an offensive rebound...

That said...

I'd take him in a second. He plays the game with a passion like Garnett and is an excellent defender/rebounder. He might not have a jumper and it is too late to fix it imo, BUT... I'd want him in the game when it matters.

Kashmir13579
04-12-2012, 11:47 PM
Poster sees one nationally televised game and makes a blanket assumption. Fresh.

People acting like he doesn't have a top 10 track record that dates back to last year. :pity:

I didn't even watch the game but this thread is nonsense. I just witnessed Noah completely obliterate my Knicks on the offensive boards. The guy goes up and gets the rock over 4 blue shirts, multiple times... wtfffff

Ladies Man
04-12-2012, 11:48 PM
He plays on team where he doesn't need to fill it up every night

Hester23Jordan
04-12-2012, 11:49 PM
this is an easy problem to fix. If he ever shoots any shot other than a free throw it should be from 6 inches away on an offensive rebound...

That said...

I'd take him in a second. He plays the game with a passion like Garnett and is an excellent defender/rebounder. He might not have a jumper and it is too late to fix it imo, BUT... I'd want him in the game when it matters.

You obviously havn't watched Noah this season. He improved his offense game and makes at least 1 or 2 outside jump shots a game. It may not be pretty but he gets it to go in.

oak2455
04-12-2012, 11:51 PM
Imagine if D12 played with same intensity as Noah

rhymeratic
04-12-2012, 11:54 PM
Imagine if D12 played with same intensity as Noah

Then he'd suck....

oak2455
04-12-2012, 11:55 PM
Then he'd suck....

:sigh:

monzternipz12
04-12-2012, 11:56 PM
You know whats annoying?? ppl trying to find ways to hate on the bulls?? must be slim pickins bc the bulls have very limited weaknesses.

Kashmir13579
04-12-2012, 11:56 PM
You obviously havn't watched Noah this season. He improved his offense game and makes at least 1 or 2 outside jump shots a game. It may not be pretty but he gets it to go in.

One of the ugliest jumpers in the NBA...

eibbor
04-12-2012, 11:56 PM
You obviously havn't watched Noah this season. He improved his offense game and makes at least 1 or 2 outside jump shots a game. It may not be pretty but he gets it to go in.

I wasn't trying to knock him at all. All I'm saying is I don't think he needs to worry so much about offense. That isn't his game imo. I'd be more than happy to have him on my team, but if he was I'd be more than happy with the rebounding and defense. If he scores that would be a bonus but I wouldn't care if he averaged 3 points a game.

I'm a Pacers fan, but I have watched probably half of their games this season.

northsider
04-12-2012, 11:57 PM
Wow this thread smells of a pot of boiling suck. Really do people just come up with random ideas to post about with out even looking into if first????

Kashmir13579
04-12-2012, 11:57 PM
You know whats annoying?? ppl trying to find ways to hate on the bulls?? must be slim pickins bc the bulls have very limited weaknesses.

They couldn't do better than Noah???

monzternipz12
04-12-2012, 11:57 PM
And oak2455, your damn sig is distracting....God bless you

eibbor
04-12-2012, 11:59 PM
And oak2455, your damn sig is distracting....God bless you

I know what ya mean... That's my mom.

The Final Boss
04-12-2012, 11:59 PM
I think the biggest point of contention we're all missing here is that when you have debates over a player like Noah's stature in a Top 5 Center conversation it truly shows just how watered-down and shallow the position really is.

oak2455
04-13-2012, 12:00 AM
I know what ya mean... That's my mom.

I'd hit it :D

monzternipz12
04-13-2012, 12:00 AM
i really don't understand the hate on the bulls. They do all they're talking on the court. if they lose, they stfu, and play the next game, no excuses.

oak2455
04-13-2012, 12:01 AM
Heat fans gotta be shhhhhittting

oak2455
04-13-2012, 12:01 AM
ESPN doin highlights

monzternipz12
04-13-2012, 12:01 AM
I know what ya mean... That's my mom.

you're my new bff then

eibbor
04-13-2012, 12:02 AM
I think the biggest point of contention we're all missing here is that when you have debates over a player like Noah's stature in a Top 5 Center conversation it truly shows just how watered-down and shallow the position really is.

Impossible to disagree with that.

But...

You also can't teach hustle really... Players either do or don't (See C Anthony...)

You don't have to be the best at a position to play the hardest...

eibbor
04-13-2012, 12:03 AM
I'd hit it :D

What?! That's assault! That is a crime. Unless you mean...

eibbor
04-13-2012, 12:04 AM
you're my new bff then

I feel like I'm being used

Nabeshin
04-13-2012, 12:05 AM
Chandler makes Noah look like he is still at Florida, and it is ironic that Chandler was once a Bull :D

oak2455
04-13-2012, 12:06 AM
What?! That's assault! That is a crime. Unless you mean...

your mom is a hottie:clap::clap: seriously you hear that??? its the Heat players crying in the Locker room again :D

oak2455
04-13-2012, 12:06 AM
I feel like I'm being used

just your mom:eyebrow: JK JK

The Final Boss
04-13-2012, 12:07 AM
Impossible to disagree with that.

But...

You also can't teach hustle really... Players either do or don't (See C Anthony...)

You don't have to be the best at a position to play the hardest...

I'd actually draft Noah before Anthony in a re-draft purely out of spite due to his lack of respect to the game.

oak2455
04-13-2012, 12:07 AM
Ok back to the topic Noah is good end of this painful thread

monzternipz12
04-13-2012, 12:09 AM
Wtf i can't stop looking at it. lol. oak2455 change it!! I'm about to go blind. I'm jk. don't you dare change it!!

eibbor
04-13-2012, 12:09 AM
just your mom:eyebrow: JK JK

Good luck... I think Delonte has dibs. Just sayin'

eibbor
04-13-2012, 12:10 AM
Ok, I have a question... I'm halfway thru a bottle of Jack so... I'm in the NBA forum and not the Bulls forum, right?

Raph12
04-13-2012, 12:10 AM
I think the biggest point of contention we're all missing here is that when you have debates over a player like Noah's stature in a Top 5 Center conversation it truly shows just how watered-down and shallow the position really is.

He's not Top 5 and not even Top 10 this season... Give me Dwight, Bynum, Big Al, MGasol, Hibbert, Cousins, Monroe, Bogut (healthy), Gortat, Horford, Duncan, Garnett and Chandler over Noah any day of the week.

And don't say Horford, Duncan and Garnett aren't PFs, because Noah is actually a PF as well, he just doesn't have the skill set to match his size.

oak2455
04-13-2012, 12:11 AM
Ok, I have a question... I'm halfway thru a bottle of Jack so... I'm in the NBA forum and not the Bulls forum, right?

right:D:D:D

monzternipz12
04-13-2012, 12:13 AM
Ralph12 thinks were still talking about Noah!! lmfao.

eibbor
04-13-2012, 12:15 AM
right:D:D:D

Ha Thanks bro!

kozelkid
04-13-2012, 12:16 AM
I think the biggest point of contention we're all missing here is that when you have debates over a player like Noah's stature in a Top 5 Center conversation it truly shows just how watered-down and shallow the position really is.

No arguments there, but Noah is still a top 10 center. No he isn't elite, but he's a good and a key player for Chicago.

Rndy
04-13-2012, 12:16 AM
Chandler makes Noah look like he is still at Florida, and it is ironic that Chandler was once a Bull :D

As someone who has witnessed both on our team I'd much rather have Noah. Much better passer and the better perimeter defender. Chandler can dunk and defend the post. But for the Bulls I'd rather have Noah.

D-Leethal
04-13-2012, 12:17 AM
You're wrong. Tyson is no more consistent than Noah.

A double double with 70% shooting, grade A defense and 100 altered shots is as consistent as it gets.

I personally think Noah is a young Tyson Chandler.

D-Leethal
04-13-2012, 12:21 AM
As someone who has witnessed both on our team I'd much rather have Noah. Much better passer and the better perimeter defender. Chandler can dunk and defend the post. But for the Bulls I'd rather have Noah.

Noah is a great perimeter defender but so is Tyson. If Noah is better its minimal and because hes younger with a bit more speed. Tyson is one of the best pick and roll defenders in the league, and one of the best weakside help defenders. Saying hes just a post defender is a sham.

Tyson locked down Monta 2x and forced him into horrible shots on the perimeter last night down the stretch on pick and roll switches.

I like Noah a lot. But right now Tyson has the edge and you can't underestimate what Championship pedigree can translate to on the court.

I think Chandler and Noah are both top 5.

Dwight, Bynum, Gasol, Tyson, Noah (if I'm forgetting someone forgive me. Hibbert is not someone I'm forgetting). Also real 7 footers not 6'9 guys playing C.

GSWFanInLA
04-13-2012, 12:23 AM
I think Chandler and Noah are both top 5.

Dwight, Bynum, Gasol, Tyson, Noah (if I'm forgetting someone forgive me. Hibbert is not someone I'm forgetting). Also real 7 footers not 6'9 guys playing C.

Andrew. Bogut. :)

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when healthy

kozelkid
04-13-2012, 12:26 AM
I hate Chandler, but there's no question he's better defensively. Possible enough to make for Chandler's lack of offense and passing ability that Noah has.

eibbor
04-13-2012, 12:28 AM
Andrew. Bogut. :)

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when healthy

I'd take Hibbert over Bogut all day.

Sinestro
04-13-2012, 12:40 AM
Sometimes Noah has a bad game, Asik is a great backup and can sometimes make Noah look expendable however I like Asik against the Heat, Asik is a bigger body he helps a lot

Sinestro
04-13-2012, 12:42 AM
Noah is a great perimeter defender but so is Tyson. If Noah is better its minimal and because hes younger with a bit more speed. Tyson is one of the best pick and roll defenders in the league, and one of the best weakside help defenders. Saying hes just a post defender is a sham.

Tyson locked down Monta 2x and forced him into horrible shots on the perimeter last night down the stretch on pick and roll switches.

I like Noah a lot. But right now Tyson has the edge and you can't underestimate what Championship pedigree can translate to on the court.

I think Chandler and Noah are both top 5.

Dwight, Bynum, Gasol, Tyson, Noah (if I'm forgetting someone forgive me. Hibbert is not someone I'm forgetting). Also real 7 footers not 6'9 guys playing C.

Honestly, I would take Tyson on this Bulls team over anyone on the Knicks currently yea I said it so sue me

eibbor
04-13-2012, 12:48 AM
Honestly, I would take Tyson on this Bulls team over anyone on the Knicks currently yea I said it so sue me

You will be hearing from my lawyer

LGhost
04-13-2012, 12:56 AM
In case you missed Bynum's 30 rebound game NBA TV has it on replay.

lol, Noah with the triple double

Sinestro
04-13-2012, 12:57 AM
You will be hearing from my lawyer

I just don't think Melo or Stat would help the team too much, I like the defensive line up of
Rose
Brewer/Butler
Deng
Taj
Chandler

Raph12
04-13-2012, 01:00 AM
Ralph12 thinks were still talking about Noah!! lmfao.

No Raph (not Ralph) was just responding to the thread... Give me Dwight, Bynum, Big Al, MGasol, Hibbert, Cousins, Monroe, Bogut (healthy), Gortat, Horford, Duncan, Garnett and Chandler all over Noah any day of the week.

eibbor
04-13-2012, 01:07 AM
I just don't think Melo or Stat would help the team too much, I like the defensive line up of
Rose
Brewer/Butler
Deng
Taj
Chandler

I was playin around bro.

Stat imo is broke and wont help any team. Knicks would be better next year if they amnesty him. ......and I don't think much of melo. He makes nobody better.

I'm a Pacers fan but if I were the bulls I'd stick with Noah. Dude hustles.

The goods
04-13-2012, 01:10 AM
Someone name a consistent C and I'll show you a bunch of poor games.

Dwight Howard is the closest thing, hell Bynum goes through stretches of ****.

Whoa whoa whoa,no need to bring bynum into this. Lol

The goods
04-13-2012, 01:14 AM
Noahs always been about defense and he still plays it pretty good and grabs his rebounds, don't forget about this shortened season as well not all players can adapt to playing some many games in so little time,

cutiepie80
04-13-2012, 01:15 AM
Please name me 9 better centers. This is coming from a die hard bulls fan who doesn't like him just because of his personality. He is easily a top 10 center in the league though. Especially this year, he has overachieved in my opinion.

xILLN355
04-13-2012, 02:04 AM
asik is a beast, of course hes gonna take some of noahs minutes lol

waveycrockett
04-13-2012, 02:11 AM
Please name me 9 better centers. This is coming from a die hard bulls fan who doesn't like him just because of his personality. He is easily a top 10 center in the league though. Especially this year, he has overachieved in my opinion.

Off the top?

D12
Bynum
Marc Gasol
Al Jefferson
Duncan
Chandler
Gortat
Horford
Monroe
Bogut

chitownbears89
04-13-2012, 02:48 AM
Ok so let me get this straight PSD. Noah sucks, Rose sucks, Boozer sucks, Deng is overrated, Rip is old and useless, Taj sucks, Asik sucks, as well as the rest of the team. This is what I get when I come to the main forum.

How the hell do we win games?

smiddy012
04-13-2012, 03:10 AM
Ok so let me get this straight PSD. Noah sucks, Rose sucks, Boozer sucks, Deng is overrated, Rip is old and useless, Taj sucks, Asik sucks, as well as the rest of the team. This is what I get when I come to the main forum.

How the hell do we win games?

Cuz of the system..

blastmasta26
04-13-2012, 03:27 AM
Cuz of the system..

The Kobe system?

meloman1592
04-13-2012, 03:51 AM
**** Noah and his guns. How the hell do you have a gun celebration and you can't shoot?

Shammyguy3
04-13-2012, 04:36 AM
this is an easy problem to fix. If he ever shoots any shot other than a free throw it should be from 6 inches away on an offensive rebound...

That said...

I'd take him in a second. He plays the game with a passion like Garnett and is an excellent defender/rebounder. He might not have a jumper and it is too late to fix it imo, BUT... I'd want him in the game when it matters.

Except for the fact that Noah's shooting over 42% from 16-23 feet this season right? :rolleyes:


He's not Top 5 and not even Top 10 this season... Give me Dwight, Bynum, Big Al, MGasol, Hibbert, Cousins, Monroe, Bogut (healthy), Gortat, Horford, Duncan, Garnett and Chandler over Noah any day of the week.

And don't say Horford, Duncan and Garnett aren't PFs, because Noah is actually a PF as well, he just doesn't have the skill set to match his size.

Al Jefferson? Ha.
Hibbert's play has really gone down since the start of the season. And this is coming from a huge Hibbert fan that isn't a Pacers fan at all. I think he's one of the most underutilized players in the league. It's a tossup between him and Noah though. Cousins... most inefficient man in the league. No thanks. Saying you'd take a healthy Bogut over him at this point would equate to me saying i'd rather have a healthy Yao Ming. It's juts not going to ever happen. Gortat, yeah i agree. Same for M.Gasol. Chandler, tossup again.

Garnett/Horford/Duncan are all PFs that are forced to play center. Monroe i feel is the same as Horford. If the Bulls didn't have Boozer's scoring I'd want Monroe. But Noah plays better with Boozer, imo, compared to how Monroe would. Right now, i wouldn't fault you taking Garnett/Horford over Noah at all though. Duncan, not anymore.

It's a fallacy that the league is deprived of centers. We haven't even mentioned Spencer Hawes, Nene Hilario, DeAndre Jordan, Javale McGee, Pekovic, Ibaka, Perkins, and more i'm sure i'm forgetting. The league has A TON of good centers. Just not HOF centers outside of Dwight Howard.

Shammyguy3
04-13-2012, 04:39 AM
So basically, definitely top-10. Probably just outside the top-5 though.

Bulls_fan90
04-13-2012, 04:47 AM
Yeah Noah sucks. CJ Watson is also better than Wade. Great sample size.

Watson>>>>>>>>>>>Rose too.

smiddy012
04-13-2012, 05:28 AM
Cousins... most inefficient man in the league. No thanks.

Well I suppose Chandler is the best center in the league then.

Shammy, since you love to rag on Cousins, do yourself a favor and watch the guy play, and SEE who he has to work with, SEE how much the team depends on him, then maybe you'll realize he plays to win the game, not to pad his stats for you. Oh right, you don't have the time, which is why you jump to conclusions based on a stat-sheet without any context. Believe it or not, the quality of a players surrounding cast can hurt or help his efficiency. Sacramento depends on Cousins to WIN games, try watching him play.

Put Cousins in Noah's place and we have as much firepower as Miami if not more, Cousins is LIGHT YEARS the better shooter and finisher than Noah. When's the last time Noah got double-teamed? Does Cousins have anyone else on his team who commands a double? When's the last time Noah had a dependable shot? Cousin's defense is on par with Noahs to boot, and he is a better rebounder. Noah's a better perimeter defender and a better passer, that is literally all Noah is conclusively better at. Cousins is a hell a lot more well-rounded, and he has no real weakness besides his mentality (lack of discipline).

As far as I'm concerned any Bulls fan who claims they rather have Noah instead of Cousins is letting their homerism show (and it's only Bulls fans who will claim this BTW). I'm so tired of hearing this BS that Cousins isn't as good as Noah, it's really ignorant, it's really a myth.

smiddy012
04-13-2012, 05:44 AM
Except for the fact that Noah's shooting over 42% from 16-23 feet this season right? :rolleyes:

Yeah he takes one of those a game basically, and is at 39% (NOT 42% btw). Say he took 200 or so of those this season, you still think he'd be at 39%??? There's a reason he practically never takes that shot and is always given that shot uncontested... and while we're comparing Cousins and Noah, it's funny how Cousins actually can create his own shot, whereas Noah doesn't, and this is reflected in their %As at 16-23.

DenButsu
04-13-2012, 06:30 AM
I made three linear regression charts which take his data starting from the beginning of the 2010-11 season and extend through this season to his most recent game as of now (2012-04-12).

The first chart shows that his shooting percentages have mostly held steady with a slight downward trajectory in his FG%:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/denbutsu/Noah2010-12FGpctandFTpct.jpg

The second chart shows a slightly mixed bag. His assists seem to be trending upwards, with his blocks holding steady and his steals declining:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/denbutsu/Noah2010-12ASTSTLBLK.jpg

The third chart is the most worrisome for Bulls fans. It shows a fairly marked decline in his rebounds, free throw attempts and points:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/denbutsu/Noah2010-12TRBFTAPTS.jpg

The fact that most of the categories that would indicate "hustle" or "playing aggressively" - which are pretty much the the hallmark of Noah's game - are showing a downward trend is at the very least not encouraging. Even if you take into consideration a lack of conditioning and increased physical toll on the players resulting from the lockout and condensed season, and Asik's increased role, Noah's still young enough that he should be able to weather that kind of stuff and continue on an improving trajectory.

It'll be interesting to see how well he plays in the playoffs. They tend to have a way of separating elite players from the rest, so we'll see if he can step up his game when it counts most.

DR_1
04-13-2012, 07:18 AM
This thread is hilarious, OP is such a troll :laugh:

tcav701
04-13-2012, 07:53 AM
Noah is a good center.

Not great but above average for sure.

/thread.

quade36
04-13-2012, 08:02 AM
This is why I don't come on this forum much anymore. Too many negative threads. For my team if the bulls lose you peeps will start a thread on how rose isn't clutch. (which btw wade and lebron were extremely clutch last night. If the bulls win you bash something else. I say this not just from my teams perspective. That's all these threads are. How someone either sucks or is overrated. Just boring

rapjuicer06
04-13-2012, 08:07 AM
I think its fair to say the Bulls have two top 10 centers...

oak2455
04-13-2012, 08:23 AM
Off the top?

D12
Bynum
Marc Gasol
Al Jefferson
Duncan
Chandler
Gortat
Horford
Monroe
Bogut

No Lopez.... The Brookster!?!

oak2455
04-13-2012, 08:39 AM
This is why I don't come on this forum much anymore. Too many negative threads. For my team if the bulls lose you peeps will start a thread on how rose isn't clutch. (which btw wade and lebron were extremely clutch last night. If the bulls win you bash something else. I say this not just from my teams perspective. That's all these threads are. How someone either sucks or is overrated. Just boring

I agree I said it a few times how ppl bash other teams when they are playing well.... Sad

thapastime7
04-13-2012, 08:43 AM
dwight howard
andrew bynum
tyson chandler
marc gasol
roy hibbert
greg monroe

just to name a few that are better centers so yea he isnt a top 5 and maybe a top 10

HrtHustleNMscle
04-13-2012, 08:53 AM
No off an entire year

Than you haven't watched all season up until last night. Him and Boozer are a huge reason the Bulls are still in first even without Rose. His rebounding and defense have been great all year, he shoots better from the line than most big men, passes and runs the floor as well if not better than any C in the league, and has been very good with put backs. Guy has been a double double machine the 2nd half of the season. So what the hell are you talking about? His mid range jumper and post game have never been great, but he does a lot of other things better than most. I never say this, but this is a bad thread started by someone who has clearly not been watching a lot of Bulls games and basing his opinion off one game.

Evolution23
04-13-2012, 08:55 AM
i used to like Noah but now I hate him because bulls fans consider him Kereem.

HrtHustleNMscle
04-13-2012, 08:58 AM
When did I say he was horrible? He is solid. I'm saying he isn't an elite center or top-10. When his own coach seems to think his backups are as good it's time to throw that idea out the window.

Quit running your mouth and name 10 better that have actually played this season, you are putting PF's at the C position and guys who have barely played all season above him based off what? Sounds like you are reaching. Why not try using healthy people and actual C's, not PF's who can play C. Also, including stats would probably be a wise move because if you just choose people based off opinion and not numbers you are going to get eaten alive by people on this forum. Charles Barkley called and said this was a "knucklehead" thread.

kozelkid
04-13-2012, 09:02 AM
i used to like Noah but now I hate him because bulls fans consider him Kereem.

Who is Kereem?

And by the way, no Bull fan overrates Noah NEARLY as much as people here LOVE to exaggerate. At worst, we look at him as a borderline top 5 center. Not sure what's wrong with that.

HrtHustleNMscle
04-13-2012, 09:09 AM
He's not Top 5 and not even Top 10 this season... Give me Dwight, Bynum, Big Al, MGasol, Hibbert, Cousins, Monroe, Bogut (healthy), Gortat, Horford, Duncan, Garnett and Chandler over Noah any day of the week.

And don't say Horford, Duncan and Garnett aren't PFs, because Noah is actually a PF as well, he just doesn't have the skill set to match his size.

Was Noah a PF in college? Did they draft him as a PF? How can you say he is one when was drafted to play C and has always played C? Also, Chandler is old Bulls garbage, if we still wanted him we would have tried to keep him. He's good for alley oops and blocks, that's about it. Noah is a much better all around player.

Evolution23
04-13-2012, 09:09 AM
Who is Kereem?

And by the way, no Bull fan overrates Noah NEARLY as much as people here LOVE to exaggerate. At worst, we look at him as a borderline top 5 center. Not sure what's wrong with that.

Kareem Adbul Jabbar. Every Bulls fan thinks Noah is close to his level. Look it up.

uprightciti
04-13-2012, 09:15 AM
I know Dwight Howard has really fallen off this year

SERIOUSLY!!!

IDIOTS THIS IS THE YEAR OF THE PG!!!!

oak2455
04-13-2012, 09:16 AM
Was Noah a PF in college? Did they draft him as a PF? How can you say he is one when was drafted to play C and has always played C? Also, Chandler is old Bulls garbage, if we still wanted him we would have tried to keep him. He's good for alley oops and blocks, that's about it. Noah is a much better all around player.

Noah is good but Tyson is better

jp611
04-13-2012, 09:33 AM
Kareem Adbul Jabbar. Every Bulls fan thinks Noah is close to his level. Look it up.

I've never once heard a Bull fan say this

boolish
04-13-2012, 09:44 AM
they call JKN a defensive center who brings it, yet he is routinely replaced by Asik in crunch time situations when Thibs is looking for stops.

effen5
04-13-2012, 09:48 AM
Kareem Adbul Jabbar. Every Bulls fan thinks Noah is close to his level. Look it up.

First time I'm hearing this. Proof?

No proof = troll which is obvious

kozelkid
04-13-2012, 09:53 AM
Who is Kereem?

And by the way, no Bull fan overrates Noah NEARLY as much as people here LOVE to exaggerate. At worst, we look at him as a borderline top 5 center. Not sure what's wrong with that.

Kareem Adbul Jabbar. Every Bulls fan thinks Noah is close to his level. Look it up.

That's a load of crap. Prove it, don't tell me to look up your baseless, asinine statements.

003
04-13-2012, 09:58 AM
I disagree. He is definitely a top ten center. I have been criticial of him a lot on here and was one of the few who would have sent him to Denver for Melo...still would do that trade by the way. He's not a hall of famer, but the key is this. Name me 10 centers that are better. The NBA doesn't have a lot of good centers right now. There's Howard, Bynum,..........and the rest. He has by far a better motor than probably any center in the league, and underrated offensive game, and is a very good defensive player with good leadership skill. I honestly would still have him as a top 5 due to the weakness as a whole at the center position. This thread to me is baiting and not really well thought out. If you are going to make a statement, you should be willing to do the "leg work" to prove your point.

Jayrich28
04-13-2012, 10:05 AM
Noah is not top five c ...he is very good but hes.not elite...we dont need him to be he fits our team
I will put him 10-15 area.
The top c

D12
Bynum
Marc gasol
Duncan (hes a pf/c)
D cousins
monroe
Hibbert
Chandler
Gortat
Kaman
Varejio/noah......cavs center idk spelling

Others here cuz they play out of position or suck at defense

Nene - defense
Horford- outta position
Bogut-hurt but good when healty
Mcgee/deandre-alot of potential haven't figured it out yet

Guys the center position has a chance to become dominant again I really think we have some nice coming bigs on the rise

thenaj17
04-13-2012, 10:08 AM
With his calling card being defense and rebounding and what he hangs his hat on and built his reputation those numbers are disappointing. Not to mention how he is pimped by alot of analyst. Even CB is down on this guy and he is his biggest fan.

Block and rebound numbers don't always explain a players value in defense, that's ridiculous reasoning. Correct rotations, quick feet to get in the right positions, pick & roll D and forcing the offensive player into a hard shot don't get stats but Noah does it all.

I don't even like the dude at all so don't call bias on my opinion.

DChibes
04-13-2012, 10:16 AM
Noah is not top five c ...he is very good but hes.not elite...we dont need him to be he fits our team
I will put him 10-15 area.
The top c

D12
Bynum
Marc gasol
Duncan (hes a pf/c)
D cousins
monroe
Hibbert
Chandler
Gortat
Kaman
Varejio/noah......cavs center idk spelling

Others here cuz they play out of position or suck at defense

Nene - defense
Horford- outta position
Bogut-hurt but good when healty
Mcgee/deandre-alot of potential haven't figured it out yet

Guys the center position has a chance to become dominant again I really think we have some nice coming bigs on the rise

really? Marc Gasol the third best Center? idk about that and Duncan shouldn't count, he was in the PF voting in the Allstar game and rarely plays C

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:27 AM
really? Marc Gasol the third best Center? idk about that and Duncan shouldn't count, he was in the PF voting in the Allstar game and rarely plays C

Actually Duncan has exclusively played the C for the greater part of the last 5 years or so. Also ASG ballots are hardly the best means to be able to tell what position a player plays. Amar'e was on the ballot for years at the C but no one would venture to say that Amar'e is a C.

If Marc Gasol isn't the 3rd best C atm who do you think is?

Jayrich28
04-13-2012, 10:30 AM
Duncan is a center though he 7ft...if u look at the spurs now he really is the center...the main reason he never was the actual center is that when he came into the league robinson was already the established center thats y I have him here he is effective at either position

pd1dish
04-13-2012, 10:36 AM
PER36=fictional stats.

the world your mind is living in=fictional

rapjuicer06
04-13-2012, 10:37 AM
If Noah is a top 10 Center, then so is Varejo (sp) They are the same exact player except Varejo isn't a douche bag...Oh, and my other comment was sarcasm in case anyone brings that up...

Blitzbolt
04-13-2012, 10:37 AM
really? Marc Gasol the third best Center? idk about that and Duncan shouldn't count, he was in the PF voting in the Allstar game and rarely plays C

WOW Now this is dumb in so many LEVELS.

This guy knows nothing about basketball Marc Gasol at times this year has been the best Center.

Jayrich28
04-13-2012, 10:38 AM
Like I said gasol is solid...he is for now but alot of u guys that bash cousins need to realize this guy is a force and yes hes immature so is bynum but one plays on a champioship level squad and the other plays on a team with no identity...but if the kings r smart cousins is the guy u build around.

You can fix his bad habits with the right coaching and structure around him but this guy has already shown he can dominate the center position in only his 2nd yr

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:43 AM
Like I said gasol is solid...he is for now but alot of u guys that bash cousins need to realize this guy is a force and yes hes immature so is bynum but one plays on a champioship level squad and the other plays on a team with no identity...but if the kings r smart cousins is the guy u build around.

You can fix his bad habits with the right coaching and structure around him but this guy has already shown he can dominate the center position in only his 2nd yr

Defense is a major part of the game and Cousins in going to be better than Gasol if he continues this kind of play but at the moment the defensive gap between the two is too big and Cousins still needs to mature and find himself on both ends of the floor.

As immature as Bynum is he's still better than Cousins on both ends of the floor and his impact defensively alone is more valuable to his team than Cousins overall impact.

Cousins is in his 2nd season in the league. Give him time.

Blitzbolt
04-13-2012, 10:44 AM
Ok so let me get this straight PSD. Noah sucks, Rose sucks, Boozer sucks, Deng is overrated, Rip is old and useless, Taj sucks, Asik sucks, as well as the rest of the team. This is what I get when I come to the main forum.

How the hell do we win games?

This why I hate Bull fans they are so sensitive about their players.They all suck but together make a great team.

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 10:48 AM
This why I hate Bull fans they are so sensitive about their players.They all suck but together make a great team.

Every time I see one of your posts I just laugh. Quickly becoming one of the worst posters on PSD but you're still quite comical.

Vincent
04-13-2012, 10:50 AM
This why I hate Bull fans they are so sensitive about their players.They all suck but together make a great team.

Yeah, that's just stupid.

They all have their faults, but they all have their strengths as well. And the Bulls collectively play to minimize their individual faults and play to their strengths.

Bulls have a very talented roster. And you guys are just hating.

72 Wins
04-13-2012, 11:00 AM
Damn, got to this thread too late... but Noah has had his ups and downs this year. When he's playing well, he's definitely in the top 10. The center position is super weak in the NBA so that helps move him up just by default.

Jayrich28
04-13-2012, 11:12 AM
Bulls fans and haters is really simple...the bulls have a great team ..we may have only one player that can strongly be considered top five at his position and thats rose.

Deng and boozer r not elite or perennial all stars but they are very good

Rip and noah are solid players they wont wow u with highlights but they will impact the game

The bench consist of scoring and defense a nice mix.
When you put that together u create a great team.

This league has turned into two models and its either the heat or the bulls...i will input lakers and cs kind of started the whole stars aligning thing and not the heat. With ray pierce kg and lakers getting gasol.

Now u have teams like clips and knicks who r trying to win with all stars.
But u also have teams like memphis,okc and pacers that r taking the method of building deep teams to win it all.


I guess we will see which does better in the

Jayrich28
04-13-2012, 11:15 AM
Playoffs

THE_G.O.A.T.
04-13-2012, 11:40 AM
What is this thread about again? Seems stupid to me.

waveycrockett
04-13-2012, 12:35 PM
Block and rebound numbers don't always explain a players value in defense, that's ridiculous reasoning. Correct rotations, quick feet to get in the right positions, pick & roll D and forcing the offensive player into a hard shot don't get stats but Noah does it all.

I don't even like the dude at all so don't call bias on my opinion.

So that explains why Thibs takes him out alot for Aseik when the Bulls need a defensive stop?

Holydiver
04-13-2012, 12:36 PM
still cant believe Pax makes him off limits in trading for superstars

justinnum1
04-13-2012, 12:36 PM
still cant believe Pax makes him off limits in trading for superstars

If the bulls lose to the heat again, im sure he would be included in trade scenarios.

Shammyguy3
04-13-2012, 12:48 PM
Well I suppose Chandler is the best center in the league then.

Shammy, since you love to rag on Cousins, do yourself a favor and watch the guy play, and SEE who he has to work with, SEE how much the team depends on him, then maybe you'll realize he plays to win the game, not to pad his stats for you. Oh right, you don't have the time, which is why you jump to conclusions based on a stat-sheet without any context. Believe it or not, the quality of a players surrounding cast can hurt or help his efficiency. Sacramento depends on Cousins to WIN games, try watching him play.

Put Cousins in Noah's place and we have as much firepower as Miami if not more, Cousins is LIGHT YEARS the better shooter and finisher than Noah. When's the last time Noah got double-teamed? Does Cousins have anyone else on his team who commands a double? When's the last time Noah had a dependable shot? Cousin's defense is on par with Noahs to boot, and he is a better rebounder. Noah's a better perimeter defender and a better passer, that is literally all Noah is conclusively better at. Cousins is a hell a lot more well-rounded, and he has no real weakness besides his mentality (lack of discipline).

As far as I'm concerned any Bulls fan who claims they rather have Noah instead of Cousins is letting their homerism show (and it's only Bulls fans who will claim this BTW). I'm so tired of hearing this BS that Cousins isn't as good as Noah, it's really ignorant, it's really a myth.

I've covered this a thousand times it seems. No player in the NBA should EVER be considered a good offensive player if their efg% is 44.6%. That's awful for any player in the league, let alone a center. If he was simply below average, then sure i'd give him every benefit of the doubt imaginable. He's just not there. Sorry. TONS of upside, but he isn't capitalizing on it.

And no, Cousins isn't the better shooter.
Cousins' Career %es (2 years)
10-15 feet: 60/175 = 34.3%
16-23 feet: 148/374 = 39.6%
jumpshots: 317/979 = 32.4%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=couside01&year_id=2011
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=couside01&year_id=2012

Noah's %es over the same time frame
10-15 feet: 15/42 = 35.7%
16-23 feet: 39/100 = 39.0%
jumpshots: 76/245 = 31.0%

At this point, they're equals shooting wise 10 feet and out. With the benefit of the doubt to Cousins since his sample size is much larger. But, i'd be careful saying one is definitively better than the other shooting from the outside.


Yeah he takes one of those a game basically, and is at 39% (NOT 42% btw). Say he took 200 or so of those this season, you still think he'd be at 39%??? There's a reason he practically never takes that shot and is always given that shot uncontested... and while we're comparing Cousins and Noah, it's funny how Cousins actually can create his own shot, whereas Noah doesn't, and this is reflected in their %As at 16-23.

Wrong, it is 42%: 22/52 for 42.3%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=noahjo01&year_id=2012

Nice try though. And if he took ~200 of those a season, yeah he'd make between 70-85 of those shots (or between 35-42.5%).

For the past two seasons, DeMarcus Cousins has made 803 attempts of which 338 were assisted on. That equates to 42.1%ast. For the past two seasons, Noah has made 422 shots of which 253 were assisted on. That equates to 60.0%ast. Just for the record.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=DeMarcus+Cousins
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Joakim+Noah
*(this according to hoopdata.com which isn't as up to date as basketball-reference.com is when talking about this season, but bball-reference doesn't have the %ast stat).


Defense is a major part of the game and Cousins in going to be better than Gasol if he continues this kind of play but at the moment the defensive gap between the two is too big and Cousins still needs to mature and find himself on both ends of the floor.

As immature as Bynum is he's still better than Cousins on both ends of the floor and his impact defensively alone is more valuable to his team than Cousins overall impact.

Cousins is in his 2nd season in the league. Give him time.

This.

tcav701
04-13-2012, 12:50 PM
I love when fans relentlessly defend players that wouldnt piss on them if they were on fire.

waveycrockett
04-13-2012, 12:50 PM
still cant believe Pax makes him off limits in trading for superstars
Thats kind of my point in all this. He is a good player but he is held in much higher regard by the Bulls organization and analyst than I think he should be. He is pretty much the same player as Anderson Vareajo who gets maybe 1/2 the credit.

Catfish1314
04-13-2012, 12:52 PM
If Noah is a top 10 Center, then so is Varejo (sp) They are the same exact player except Varejo isn't a douche bag...Oh, and my other comment was sarcasm in case anyone brings that up...

So tired of this comparison. Varejao isn't half as skilled as Noah. Noah has the handles and passing capability of a point guard (because he was one once). He's also a superb free-throw shooter and has far more length and pure talent than Andy V.

Noah is one of the best offensive rebounders in basketball right now, not to mention a very smart and very good interior defender. Bigger centers like Dwight pretty much trash him but Dwight trashes most other centers anyway.

And for those who think Thibs is the reason for the attention Noah gets as a defensive player, he had already made a significant impact on the Bulls defense before Thibs got there.

Kashmir13579
04-13-2012, 01:02 PM
i used to like Noah but now I hate him because bulls fans consider him Kereem.

Please realize that this type of logic is precisely what makes PSD a ****-show. Hate him because he's a Bull, not because some random on the internet, who does not in-anyway represent a general consensus, overrated him. pshhhh my biggest pet-peeve with this site and you should know better. Knick fans on here fall victim to this **** everyday. Posters can't get a word in edge-wise because all they see is "lulz Shumpert next Jordan lulz"

Stinkyoutsider
04-13-2012, 01:05 PM
I don't think his energy is where it was in the past that made him a very good center. His offensive skills are marginal at best and I hate it when he's in the game and the other team doesn't guard him. Puts the Bulls at a 4 on 5 disadvantage. Added with Noah not wanting to take jump shots and it hurts the Bulls more.

He's done a good job covering the defensive end as a whole this season. We could see more production from him on that end if he wasn't covering up for Boozer's defensive woes.

This offseason, he has to develop a jumpshot and use it when people play off him. That's how he'll get to stay in the game in the 4th quarter. Heck, I would even think coach Thibbs is thinking about using both Gibson and Boozer in the playoff 4th quarters if Noah doesn't pick it up...

oak2455
04-13-2012, 01:09 PM
If the bulls lose to the heat again, im sure he would be included in trade scenarios.

and what happens if the Heat don't win:eyebrow::D:D

BKLYNpigeon
04-13-2012, 01:35 PM
Noah is an energy guy. i dont reeally care about his numbers, because he players solid defense.

Lake_Show2416
04-13-2012, 02:36 PM
Noah is having pretty much the same year as last, wuts the big issue, probably a little down since his star isn't there to take away pressure for some easier stats

Troll so Hard

waveycrockett
04-13-2012, 02:37 PM
Noah is an energy guy. i dont reeally care about his numbers, because he players solid defense.

Exactly he is an energy guy. There are a bunch of guys like that. Doesn't make him one of the best.

justinnum1
04-13-2012, 02:54 PM
and what happens if the Heat don't win:eyebrow::D:D

bosh and spo are gone most likely

oak2455
04-13-2012, 03:00 PM
bosh and spo are gone most likely

Coach will be gone, but you really think Bosh????

Raph12
04-13-2012, 03:40 PM
Was Noah a PF in college? Did they draft him as a PF? How can you say he is one when was drafted to play C and has always played C? Also, Chandler is old Bulls garbage, if we still wanted him we would have tried to keep him. He's good for alley oops and blocks, that's about it. Noah is a much better all around player.

Play Noah next to most of the guys I mentioned and he would play PF... Tyson is smart, he sticks to what he's good at, ergo the 68% shooting this season; defensively, Tyson is much better than Noah and if it's one or the other, I'd rather have Tyson on my team.

justinnum1
04-13-2012, 03:42 PM
Coach will be gone, but you really think Bosh????

If they dont make it to the finals i do.

HrtHustleNMscle
04-13-2012, 05:25 PM
Play Noah next to most of the guys I mentioned and he would play PF... Tyson is smart, he sticks to what he's good at, ergo the 68% shooting this season; defensively, Tyson is much better than Noah and if it's one or the other, I'd rather have Tyson on my team.

Again, used to have him, wouldn't want him. All he is good for is alley oops, dunks, and blocks. Doesn't run the floor as well, pass as well, shoot free throws as well, blocks and rebounds are almost the same. He's shooting 68% because all he ever does is dunk.

I am Smart
04-13-2012, 05:30 PM
You know what's hilarious? People are trying to use stats to prove that Noah's play has fallen off...however most of what Noah brings to the table doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Actually watching the games can do wonders people..

Donuts365
04-13-2012, 05:50 PM
What happened to this guy? I realize Omer Aseik is a good BACKUP Center but DAMN he has fallen off like crazy and lost a ton of his minutes. There were some people calling him a top-5 Center before the season. His offense is terrible, he is a meh free throw shooter, he is not rebounding like he used to, not blocking shots like he used to and he has gotten owned against some of the better centers in the league this year.

are yu serious?

giants73756
04-13-2012, 06:02 PM
No off an entire year


Are we basing this off of one game?

You know it's off one game. You're just bullshitting because you don't want to admit it.

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 06:27 PM
Again, used to have him, wouldn't want him. All he is good for is alley oops, dunks, and blocks. Doesn't run the floor as well, pass as well, shoot free throws as well, blocks and rebounds are almost the same. He's shooting 68% because all he ever does is dunk.

Why attack a player that you clearly know nothing about?

It's a shame that he played for your team but you'd say something as ignorant as this. Chandler is a better player than Noah there is now doubt about that. Tyson is better than Noah on both ends of the floor. That is something I think even most objective Bulls fans would agree.

dee279
04-13-2012, 06:46 PM
I cant name 10 Centers better then Noah but hes not all that good but not many better. Not 10 more many.

In no special order:

D Howard
Bynum
B. Lopez
Bogut
Marc Gasol
Demarcus Cousins
Tyson Chandler
KG(been playing Center)
Tim Duncan( same as KG)
(its starting to get tough now)

Hmmmm...
Roy Hibbert
Kendrick Perkins? Idk

I pretty much have to put PFs at Center but actually after i think about it, its debateable.

Jayrich28
04-13-2012, 07:05 PM
I cant name 10 Centers better then Noah but hes not all that good but not many better. Not 10 more many.

In no special order:

D Howard
Bynum
B. Lopez
Bogut
Marc Gasol
Demarcus Cousins
Tyson Chandler
KG(been playing Center)
Tim Duncan( same as KG)
(its starting to get tough now)

Hmmmm...
Roy Hibbert
Kendrick Perkins? Idk

I pretty much have to put PFs at Center but actually after i think about it, its debateable.

you forgot monroe , kaman, nene,

I am Smart
04-13-2012, 07:24 PM
I cant name 10 Centers better then Noah but hes not all that good but not many better. Not 10 more many.

In no special order:

D Howard
Bynum
B. Lopez
Bogut
Marc Gasol
Demarcus Cousins
Tyson Chandler
KG(been playing Center)
Tim Duncan( same as KG)
(its starting to get tough now)

Hmmmm...
Roy Hibbert
Kendrick Perkins? Idk

I pretty much have to put PFs at Center but actually after i think about it, its debateable.
Perkins? are you high? Lopez?

Duncan and KG aren't even C's you asshat

Blitzbolt
04-13-2012, 07:26 PM
Who cares why even make a tread about a scrub player on a good team.He is not a super star or even worth talking about.

dee279
04-13-2012, 07:38 PM
Perkins? are you high? Lopez?

Duncan and KG aren't even C's you asshat

I said that in my post u dumbazz. And id much ratha have Lopez then Noah. And i put Perkins with a question mark fo a reason so call ya own self sumthin cuz u da one confused idiot.

dee279
04-13-2012, 07:40 PM
you forgot monroe , kaman, nene,

True. I couldnt think at da moment. But i agree.

Raph12
04-13-2012, 07:40 PM
Again, used to have him, wouldn't want him. All he is good for is alley oops, dunks, and blocks. Doesn't run the floor as well, pass as well, shoot free throws as well, blocks and rebounds are almost the same. He's shooting 68% because all he ever does is dunk.

He's a better man defender and a better team defender; offensively he's a bigger threat in a pnr situation as he draws more attention when slashing to the basket... I'd still take Tyson over Noah any day of the week.

Catfish1314
04-13-2012, 07:48 PM
I cant name 10 Centers better then Noah but hes not all that good but not many better. Not 10 more many.

In no special order:

D Howard
Bynum
B. Lopez
Bogut
Marc Gasol
Demarcus Cousins
Tyson Chandler
KG(been playing Center)
Tim Duncan( same as KG)
(its starting to get tough now)

Hmmmm...
Roy Hibbert
Kendrick Perkins? Idk

I pretty much have to put PFs at Center but actually after i think about it, its debateable.

Nene and Greg Monroe (who I really think of as more of a PF) would replace Lopez and Perkins, who have no business anywhere near this list. Perkins is borderline worthless and Lopez is afraid of rebounds.

Bogut really shouldn't be on it either anymore. When he's healthy, he's undoubtedly top five. But that is very, very rarely the case these days.

1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Marc Gasol
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Tyson Chandler
6. Tim Duncan

After that it's sort of a cluster**** between a handful of centers who have noticeable holes in their games. Noah (limited offensively), Nene (good but not great rebounder for his size), Cousins (can be dominant, but horribly inefficient for a player with his gifts), and Hibbert (average rebounder).

I won't count Al Horford since he hasn't been healthy this year and like Monroe, is really a four.

Swashcuff
04-13-2012, 07:49 PM
Perkins? are you high? Lopez?

Duncan and KG aren't even C's you asshat

You call someone an asshat when you're the one who is showing that you know nothing about. Tim Dunac has been a centre for the last 5+ seasons and KG has played the C for the entirety of this season and has produced at a higher rate there than at the PF.

dee279
04-13-2012, 08:01 PM
Nene and Greg Monroe (who I really think of as more of a PF) would replace Lopez and Perkins, who have no business anywhere near this list. Perkins is borderline worthless and Lopez is afraid of rebounds.

Bogut really shouldn't be on it either anymore. When he's healthy, he's undoubtedly top five. But that is very, very rarely the case these days.

1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Marc Gasol
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Tyson Chandler
6. Tim Duncan

After that it's sort of a cluster**** between a handful of centers who have noticeable holes in their games. Noah (limited offensively), Nene (good but not great rebounder for his size), Cousins (can be dominant, but horribly inefficient for a player with his gifts), and Hibbert (average rebounder).Y

I won't count Al Horford since he hasn't been healthy this year and like Monroe, is really a four.

Yea i wasnt putting any center in any order. I would still choose B. Lopez before Noah because of his offensive abilities though. But it depends what your team looks like if Lopez or Noah would be the choice.

dee279
04-13-2012, 08:04 PM
You call someone an asshat when you're the one who is showing that you know nothing about. Tim Dunac has been a centre for the last 5+ seasons and KG has played the C for the entirety of this season and has produced at a higher rate there than at the PF.

Thank you for clearing that 1 up. :hi5: