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View Full Version : How in the world Steve Nash windup with 2 MVP's?



DaVille
04-12-2012, 01:26 AM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.

Ovratd1up
04-12-2012, 01:27 AM
Go to a whorehouse on mushrooms.

sunsfan88
04-12-2012, 01:29 AM
Mods please lock this thread.

I think the better question is, how in world does Nash ONLY have two MVPs?

SugeKnight
04-12-2012, 01:30 AM
Suns were dominant and he was ballin.

tredigs
04-12-2012, 01:31 AM
Funny to me that some people still parrot this cliche' that defense is "50% of the game" even when it concerns point guards, and simultaneously seem to assume that Nash is so deficient defensively that his out-of-control offensive genius/efficiency/playmaking is somehow entirely mitigated because he can't defend Jason Kidd in the post.

Cfrey
04-12-2012, 01:31 AM
Go to a whorehouse on mushrooms.

lol

DaVille
04-12-2012, 01:34 AM
Mods please lock this thread.

I think the better question is, how in world does Nash ONLY have two MVPs?

Its legitimate question. Steve Nash won one too many MVPs

Toxeryll
04-12-2012, 01:39 AM
he was the best player on the dominant Suns team

SSmythe22
04-12-2012, 01:39 AM
because he deserved them.

its that simple.

Supa
04-12-2012, 01:42 AM
MVP is voted by the sports writers, apparently they think Nash is as good as Shaq and Kobe combine ...

---

tredigs
04-12-2012, 01:45 AM
There's a way to phrase this argument and talk about how/why MVP awards are given to particular players (using Nash as the prototype here), but - assuming you weren't just baiting, which is highly possible - you just went about this weakly/terribly.

The argument is there. Try harder.

Ebbs
04-12-2012, 01:46 AM
This thread is oozing garbage that steals IQ points.

Anyway still comical that people think Nash's D is that questionable.

Supa
04-12-2012, 01:48 AM
Here is the list of back to back MVPs, can you spot the odd man out?


2009-2010 - Lebron James, Cleveland
2008-2009 - Lebron James, Cleveland

2005-06 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2004-05 - Steve Nash, Phoenix

2002-03 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio

1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago

1989-90 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers

1985-86 - Larry Bird, Boston
1984-85 - Larry Bird, Boston
1983-84 - Larry Bird, Boston

1982-83 - Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1981-82 - Moses Malone, Houston

1976-77 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1975-76 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles

1971-72 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1970-71 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee

1967-68 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966-67 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1965-66 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia

1962-63 - Bill Russell, Boston
1961-62 - Bill Russell, Boston
1960-61 - Bill Russell, Boston

---

More-Than-Most
04-12-2012, 01:49 AM
He should be in the discussion again this year as a top candidate as well... It probably should have only won one of the 2 that he did but he actually deserved the 3rd that he didnt win... Also I wish people would get off this kick on how bad Nash is defensively...The guy gets thrown under the bus as the omg worst defender ever but he really isn't.

More-Than-Most
04-12-2012, 01:50 AM
Here is the list of back to back MVPs, can you spot the odd man out?


2009-2010 - Lebron James, Cleveland
2008-2009 - Lebron James, Cleveland

2005-06 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2004-05 - Steve Nash, Phoenix

2002-03 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio

1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago

1989-90 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers

1985-86 - Larry Bird, Boston
1984-85 - Larry Bird, Boston
1983-84 - Larry Bird, Boston

1982-83 - Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1981-82 - Moses Malone, Houston

1976-77 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1975-76 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles

1971-72 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1970-71 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee

1967-68 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966-67 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1965-66 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia

1962-63 - Bill Russell, Boston
1961-62 - Bill Russell, Boston
1960-61 - Bill Russell, Boston

---

this is a fail argument and one not worth responding to. Tell me why he didn't deserve the mvps instead of using something like this

BaustinSali08
04-12-2012, 01:51 AM
Suns were dominant and he was ballin.

Dis. Pho Sho.

harlequin018
04-12-2012, 02:02 AM
Steve Nash is the best perimeter shooter of all time (if you have ESPN Insider, read Hollinger's analysis of this here (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-100309)). He's also one of the best distributors of all time. I'm blown away by how underrated he is because he wasn't a phenom coming out of college and he's fairly nonathletic. He is still the most skilled player in the NBA.

SeoulBeatz
04-12-2012, 02:03 AM
Did you watch that Suns team????

Nash was a magician on offense (still is) but all you had to do was watch him play and say "damn this guy is the MOST VALUABLE player in the league/for his team"

I still remember that Nash, Joe Johnson, Q Rich, Shawn Marion, Stoudemire team.

That was about as awesome as a roster could get. Shame the refs ****ed em over in that SA series.

JARVIS123
04-12-2012, 02:11 AM
i said the same thing when he got those mvps.kobe put up the same # when he got those mvps.chris paul lead the lead in assist and steals while putting up 20 + points a game why he didnt get mvp?nash had better players than cp3.but thats the nba 4 u...

JLynn943
04-12-2012, 02:14 AM
lol. Nash is easily one of the greatest point guards of all time and was what made all of those great Suns teams as good as they were. He absolutely is deserving of two MVP awards (although maybe the years he got them should have been different). His defense was bad, but it was not so bad that it somehow erases how ridiculous he made that offense.

5ass
04-12-2012, 02:32 AM
he was the best player on great regular season teams, he's still a great player though.

AIRMAR72
04-12-2012, 02:38 AM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.
GET LOST how dear you question Steve Nash MVPs

naps
04-12-2012, 03:03 AM
Because he was deserving. Stop trolling. I am sure you haven't followed the NBA for long enough.

silvTeg98
04-12-2012, 03:11 AM
kobe should have gotten those 2 MVP awards

Phenomenonsense
04-12-2012, 03:26 AM
MVP is most valuable to the team. My *** Kobe deserved anything those years.

JLynn943
04-12-2012, 03:29 AM
MVP is most valuable to the team. My *** Kobe deserved anything those years.

Yeah, seriously. That's what this will always boil down to though...

mdm692
04-12-2012, 03:37 AM
MVP = Most VALUEBLE Player. Not the best player, not the greatest players, not the most clutch but the Most VALUABLE Player. Ok thats out of the way someone try to watch the suns play ball when nash sits down or is injured or whatever, with the exception of a couple good games from telfair this year and maybe 1 or 2 from dragic before, its a f###### trainwreck and to an extent you question how some of these players are in the nba.

FriedTofuz
04-12-2012, 03:56 AM
You really didnt realize what kind of level nash was playing at, id you? otherwise you'd understand why he was an MVP twice. He transoformed the suns into a contender. I even thought they were ging to win it all that year when nash resigned in phoniex

MickeyMgl
04-12-2012, 04:28 AM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.

Kobe's poplarity was pretty low going into the 05-06 season, so the writers were easily able to justify to themselves why to not award the MVP to the player who had had by far the most dominant season. 21 voters left him off their Top 5 ballot completely.

dos132
04-12-2012, 05:11 AM
his stat now su:Dcks, but in those years that he won mvp his stat were high and suns was a very good team having Marion, amare, barbosa, house and raja bell and etc. :clap:

Duncan = Donkey
04-12-2012, 05:16 AM
Why do peope say he plays no defense?? weakest argument ever. People act like opposing PG's cans score on him whenever they want to, lol.

Turnover Machine, LMFAO, There are 6 players ahead of Nash in turnovers per game, and i Guarantee you Nash has control of the ball alot longer than them as well.

DaVille your a clown.

Trueblue2
04-12-2012, 05:23 AM
umm because he had [more than] two amazing seasons and his team was dominant...

NothingbutWill
04-12-2012, 06:03 AM
MVP basically means the player on the team that can make the team better and can win. Doesn't have to be the most talented player, the best player, score the most and etc. Steve Nash made EVERYONE on his team better just by him being on the floor. He was awesome and couldn't be stopped and just made great plays after great plays, even without thinking. He deserved at least 1 of those MVPs. I kind of agree that he shouldn't of gotten his second one but that's just my opinion.

UnWantedTheory
04-12-2012, 06:07 AM
Did you watch that Suns team????

Nash was a magician on offense (still is) but all you had to do was watch him play and say "damn this guy is the MOST VALUABLE player in the league/for his team"

I still remember that Nash, Joe Johnson, Q Rich, Shawn Marion, Stoudemire team.

That was about as awesome as a roster could get. Shame the refs ****ed em over in that SA series.

That is such ********. They should have won the other games and they did it to themselves to begin with.

UnWantedTheory
04-12-2012, 06:12 AM
Nash was and is great, but I still believe he was only deserving of one of those MVP's.

UnWantedTheory
04-12-2012, 06:15 AM
Why do peope say he plays no defense?? weakest argument ever. People act like opposing PG's cans score on him whenever they want to, lol.

Turnover Machine, LMFAO, There are 6 players ahead of Nash in turnovers per game, and i Guarantee you Nash has control of the ball alot longer than them as well.

DaVille your a clown.

He hasn't been the worst defender ever, but he was pretty bad on that end of the court. Your TO argument is solid as well imo.

MOST
04-12-2012, 06:18 AM
Maybe someone should give parker the cold shoulder

MOST
04-12-2012, 06:20 AM
Lets see how spurs fans feel. Just saying

MOST
04-12-2012, 06:36 AM
I live in San Antonio now and there happy about bumping nash that one year. 95% fans here.

FrenchSunsFan
04-12-2012, 06:48 AM
Just cause he deserve to be 2 times MVP , Karl Malone was 2 times MVP and never be NBA champion too (like LBJ).

holocaust227
04-12-2012, 07:05 AM
Nash is the best at keeping his dribble alive and perimeter shooting. He may not be that quick but he defends using great positioning and it leads to a lot of charges.

Mile High Champ
04-12-2012, 07:24 AM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.

I am all for a good debate on topics like this but man you have really brought nothing to the table.

Plays no defense and that the game is half of that? Turover machine? You got anything better. Please tell me you do because this is one of the most poorly worded and chosen argugments I have seen a poster make in this forum.

When you are ready to come back and contribute something of quality, then maybe we can all take you seriously.

Stress
04-12-2012, 07:37 AM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.

because he's white...
Nash is a boss. There wasnt a better floor general at that time. There still isn't.
Clutch 3's and hard-to-make dimes.
KG doesnt deserve more than one MVP award. That's just silly.

Kinkotheclown
04-12-2012, 07:56 AM
MVP = Most VALUEBLE Player. Not the best player, not the greatest players, not the most clutch but the Most VALUABLE Player. Ok thats out of the way someone try to watch the suns play ball when nash sits down or is injured or whatever, with the exception of a couple good games from telfair this year and maybe 1 or 2 from dragic before, its a f###### trainwreck and to an extent you question how some of these players are in the nba.

:clap::clap:

Now I only have to Write this.

PHX2daDEATH
04-12-2012, 08:02 AM
the OP just started watching Basketball two years ago, possibly..if so I'll give him a free pass at this post..

thenaj17
04-12-2012, 08:19 AM
MVP = Most VALUEBLE Player. Not the best player, not the greatest players, not the most clutch but the Most VALUABLE Player. Ok thats out of the way someone try to watch the suns play ball when nash sits down or is injured or whatever, with the exception of a couple good games from telfair this year and maybe 1 or 2 from dragic before, its a f###### trainwreck and to an extent you question how some of these players are in the nba.

More valuable than Kobe was? If Kobe hadn't been on that Lakers team, i'm not sure the Lakers would have won 10 games. Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Luke Walton, Vlad Radmanovic. Are you kidding me?

If you swapped Kobe and Nash so it was Kobe, Stoudamire, Marion, Diaw, Joe Johnson and tell me he wouldn't have swept Nash with Smush, Kwame, Mihm, Walton, Radman

trini_knickfan
04-12-2012, 08:53 AM
Here is the list of back to back MVPs, can you spot the odd man out?


2009-2010 - Lebron James, Cleveland
2008-2009 - Lebron James, Cleveland

2005-06 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2004-05 - Steve Nash, Phoenix

2002-03 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio

1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago

1989-90 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers

1985-86 - Larry Bird, Boston
1984-85 - Larry Bird, Boston
1983-84 - Larry Bird, Boston

1982-83 - Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1981-82 - Moses Malone, Houston

1976-77 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1975-76 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles

1971-72 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1970-71 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee

1967-68 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966-67 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1965-66 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia

1962-63 - Bill Russell, Boston
1961-62 - Bill Russell, Boston
1960-61 - Bill Russell, Boston

---

Ur right, Lebron name does look odd there lol

Greet
04-12-2012, 08:58 AM
D from the PG position isn't that valuable to begin with.....

NYKnicks4511
04-12-2012, 09:00 AM
Its legitimate question. Steve Nash won one too many MVPs

MVP is not necessarily the best player having the best season, and people fail to realize this. Most Valuable Player was Nash, because without him the Suns would have struggled to win 35 games in the West -- and that's a fact. Nash is very deserving of both his MVPs.

thekmp211
04-12-2012, 10:55 AM
his defense is not as terrible as advertised, and it's been made painfully clear that nash made d'antoni and not the other way around.

he deserved at least one, and i don't mind that he has two. one of the best point guards and players of his generation, as well as imo the best pure shooter of all time by a fair margin.

Swashcuff
04-12-2012, 11:07 AM
I've seen this debate made hundreds of times but I must say this is the worst job I've seen anyone do at it. Steve Nash has orchestrated some of the greatest offensives in the history of the NBA and is one of its greatest offensive powerhouses. I too am very critical of Nash's multiple MVPs but lets not discredit the man's greatness. He's indeed a top 50 player all time.

Swashcuff
04-12-2012, 11:08 AM
MVP is not necessarily the best player having the best season, and people fail to realize this. Most Valuable Player was Nash, because without him the Suns would have struggled to win 35 games in the West -- and that's a fact. Nash is very deserving of both his MVPs.

Look at what Nash has been able to do with those Suns these past two seasons. Simply amazing given his support IMO.

teddygreen17
04-12-2012, 11:13 AM
Honestly, i though he might be eligible for one more, the season after..my opinion.

nycsports2
04-12-2012, 11:17 AM
bc in those yrs he was deserving of them... thats really it lol no other player deserved it more

king4day
04-12-2012, 11:20 AM
I keep coming back to this. He turned around a team with 30 something wins to a 60+ win team. Aside from Q-Rich, that was the same team Marbury had the year before.
That turnaround is not MVP worthy?
The next year, without Amar'e, and running with a squad of Bell, Diaw, Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, who were ALL first year Suns....no chemistry, and still had 54 wins and taking the division....

What's funny is, the year after his second MVP he probably was most deserving of those he went up against and didn't win it. Not a single Suns fan *****es about it. It would have been mad cool to see a 3-peat.
People just hate Nash so much that they have to find reasons to think he didn't deserve it.

Do you want to make arguments on why Shaq or Kobe coulda won it those years? Fine. But to say it's a travesty Nash won them is plain disrespectful.

RiLoc
04-12-2012, 11:34 AM
I don't think it's fair to say, "How did Steve Nash win two when XXXXX only won X times." Not all seasons are created equal. It's easier to understand if you look at the actual seasons.

2004-05 MVP Candidates
Nash: 62 wins after winning only 29 the previous season, 15.5 ppg, 11.5 apg.
Shaq: 59 wins, 22ppg, 10.4rpg, 27.0per.

I think he wins this year, because he changed the course of the Suns from the bottom of the West to the top using an offensive style that was contrary to the rest of the league.

2005-06 MVP Candidates
Nash: 54 wins, 18.8 ppg, 10.5 apg
LeBron: 50 wins, 31.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.6 apg, 28.1 per
Dirk: 60 wins, 26.6 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 28.1 per
Kobe: 45 wins, 35.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.8 spg, 28.0 per
Billups: 64 wins, 18.5 ppg, 8.6 apg

Two of the best individual performance are coming from the two worst teams on the list, the Cavaliers and the Lakers. The Pistons were thought of as a team without a star. I guess voters like Nash more than Dirk. Certainly, Nash was popular. I think Dirk also had the better supporting cast and less injuries, while Nash's Suns won 54 games when Amare only played three games, leaving the Suns ridiculously weak for big men. Nash was definitely what made the Suns who they were. Side note, Nash had his first 50%/40%/90% shooting year.

He's not the type of person we think of winning two MVPs, but his impact on the Suns was on the same level as the type of person we envision as winning two MVPs.

So... I think the answer is he had an enormous impact on the Suns, he was popular and benefited from some luck in terms of the field of candidates.

RiLoc
04-12-2012, 11:39 AM
Double post.

KingPosey
04-12-2012, 11:40 AM
Here is the list of back to back MVPs, can you spot the odd man out?


2009-2010 - Lebron James, Cleveland
2008-2009 - Lebron James, Cleveland

2005-06 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2004-05 - Steve Nash, Phoenix

2002-03 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio

1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago

1989-90 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers

1985-86 - Larry Bird, Boston
1984-85 - Larry Bird, Boston
1983-84 - Larry Bird, Boston

1982-83 - Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1981-82 - Moses Malone, Houston

1976-77 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1975-76 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles

1971-72 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1970-71 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee

1967-68 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966-67 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1965-66 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia

1962-63 - Bill Russell, Boston
1961-62 - Bill Russell, Boston
1960-61 - Bill Russell, Boston

---
They all look like HOFers to me.

knicks4life33
04-12-2012, 11:48 AM
did you just start watching basketball ? nash im pretty sure deserved at least 1 of those mvps and the other 1 was a tigh race with shaq that 1 year

yoseppii12
04-12-2012, 11:48 AM
agree with some people about MVP definition. I think tis a combonation of exceeding expectations and value on their own team.

Nash doesn't play particularly noteworthy defense, he won MVP not DPOY. I think MVP, just like all-star appearances, are based on offense not defense. Sure defense plays a role but offense plays a way bigger role.

In terms of defense there are very few lock down perimeter defenders. Likewise, there are very few terrible guys that get beat all the time. Most players just fall somewhere close to the mean and are more of a product of their defensive scheme then anything else... (hence Boozer has 58 steals to Deng's 50 this year)

RiLoc
04-12-2012, 11:49 AM
Double post.

Sactown
04-12-2012, 11:49 AM
I'm confused on the debate? It's always been the best player on one of the best teams? It's not like the Suns sucked and he won it...

valade16
04-12-2012, 11:52 AM
Someone brought up another key point.

The 2nd year Nash won MVP Amare was injured for the entire season.

How many teams that came out of nowhere the year before and won a ton of games could you say "good, now lose your 2nd best player and other star, and see if you do as good" and they did.

That is really impressive.

Shaq should've probably won more MVPs, Kobe probably should've won more MVPs, but Nash absolutely deserved the 2 he got.

valade16
04-12-2012, 11:56 AM
agree with some people about MVP definition. I think tis a combonation of exceeding expectations and value on their own team.

Nash doesn't play particularly noteworthy defense, he won MVP not DPOY. I think MVP, just like all-star appearances, are based on offense not defense. Sure defense plays a role but offense plays a way bigger role.

In terms of defense there are very few lock down perimeter defenders. Likewise, there are very few terrible guys that get beat all the time. Most players just fall somewhere close to the mean and are more of a product of their defensive scheme then anything else... (hence Boozer has 58 steals to Deng's 50 this year)

That is absolutely true when determining an MVP. You can win an MVP with average defense. Ever seen a guy win an MVP in the last 25 years who had average offense?

BKLYNpigeon
04-12-2012, 11:57 AM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.


Its because you didnt watch Basketball until the Celtics formed their Big 3.

Jamiecballer
04-12-2012, 11:59 AM
the media was dying to annoint a moppy haired white boy MVP in a sport dominated by african americans. a great player but MVP he was not.

HOZ THE KNICK
04-12-2012, 11:59 AM
Lmao....

carruthers32
04-12-2012, 12:01 PM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.

Your either....

a) young and didn't even watch him those years
b) have no idea what your talking about

either or he clearly was the favourite those years, anyone following basketball knows that.

mjt20mik
04-12-2012, 12:04 PM
I don't know what the problem is?

2004-2005 He led his team to a 62-20 record (with the likes of Amare, Marion, J.Johnson, Barbosa, Q.Rich).

2005-2006 He led his team to 54-28 records (with the likes of Marion, Barbosa, Diaw, Bell).

Just to put things in perspective, during the 04/05 season, Amare put up 26 PPG and was a huge part of their offense. Now imagine losing your top scorer and inside threat for a whole season and still competing and producing as well.

That's why he won 2 MVPs.

THE MTL
04-12-2012, 12:13 PM
First MVP was very well deserved. Suns were the best team in the NBA...won like 62 games. It was a huge turnaround from the previous year. He was the best player and he even had the MVP stats.

Now, the second MVP was actually better than the first one. Suns were still the best team in the NBA and Nash's stat line considerably improved and the team lost STAT for the entire season! His stat line.....18.9ppg 10.5 apg with shooting percentages of 50% FG-40% 3pt -90% FT. which is incredible and only a few players in NBA history have achieved such an accomplishment.

But I'll admit that there was a MORE deserving player named Kobe Bryant!

STAT1
04-12-2012, 12:18 PM
First MVP was very well deserved. Suns were the best team in the NBA...won like 62 games. It was a huge turnaround from the previous year. He was the best player and he even had the MVP stats.

Now, the second MVP was actually better than the first one. Suns were still the best team in the NBA and Nash's stat line considerably improved and the team lost STAT for the entire season! His stat line.....18.9ppg 10.5 apg with shooting percentages of 50% FG-40% 3pt -90% FT. which is incredible and only a few players in NBA history have achieved such an accomplishment.

But I'll admit that there was a MORE deserving player named Kobe Bryant!

Because the Lakers were 45-37.

Chronz
04-12-2012, 12:22 PM
First MVP was very well deserved. Suns were the best team in the NBA...won like 62 games. It was a huge turnaround from the previous year. He was the best player and he even had the MVP stats.

Now, the second MVP was actually better than the first one. Suns were still the best team in the NBA and Nash's stat line considerably improved and the team lost STAT for the entire season! His stat line.....18.9ppg 10.5 apg with shooting percentages of 50% FG-40% 3pt -90% FT. which is incredible and only a few players in NBA history have achieved such an accomplishment.

But I'll admit that there was a MORE deserving player named Kobe Bryant!
I dont think its hard for you to admit that considering your his fan. No Kobe did not deserve the MVP that year, neither did Nash. Dirk deserved it, it was his best year, put up the best stats in the game and had a powerhouse team completely dependent on him, he ended up willing his team to the Finals that year. Shaq deserved the award the year prior.

So neither of Nash's awards were legit in my mind, but he did deserve MVP his 3rd year (when Dirk won it).

Pfeifer
04-12-2012, 12:35 PM
He won because he was literally unstoppable from the outside and in the paint. He would drop threes until he decided to just take it to the rim with that lazy looking layup. Im pretty sure he was averaging like 12 assists per game and if it wasnt for the terrible suspensions and cheap shot from horry he may have a title as well. Honestly he was unbelievably good for those few years.

STAT1
04-12-2012, 12:35 PM
People should stop counting MVP's and comparing the players that way. It's stupid.

llemon
04-12-2012, 12:38 PM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.

Nash did it with mirrors

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 12:41 PM
I dont think its hard for you to admit that considering your his fan. No Kobe did not deserve the MVP that year, neither did Nash. Dirk deserved it, it was his best year, put up the best stats in the game and had a powerhouse team completely dependent on him, he ended up willing his team to the Finals that year. Shaq deserved the award the year prior.

So neither of Nash's awards were legit in my mind, but he did deserve MVP his 3rd year (when Dirk won it).

MVP is for regular season and it doesnt include Playoffs!

CudiOnMyiPod
04-12-2012, 12:42 PM
Yes he is a top 50 player of all time but he deserved only 1 MVP.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 12:44 PM
First MVP was very well deserved. Suns were the best team in the NBA...won like 62 games. It was a huge turnaround from the previous year. He was the best player and he even had the MVP stats.

Now, the second MVP was actually better than the first one. Suns were still the best team in the NBA and Nash's stat line considerably improved and the team lost STAT for the entire season! His stat line.....18.9ppg 10.5 apg with shooting percentages of 50% FG-40% 3pt -90% FT. which is incredible and only a few players in NBA history have achieved such an accomplishment.

But I'll admit that there was a MORE deserving player named Kobe Bryant!

04-05 Lakers 34-48 Did not even make the playoffs. So how is he deserving?
05-06 Lakers 45-31 7th seed. How is he going to be an mvp if he is only in the 7th seed after winning 3 Championships before?

Ladies Man
04-12-2012, 01:07 PM
I for one think he deserved them. I know a lot of people who disagree though. Oh well

Chronz
04-12-2012, 01:23 PM
MVP is for regular season and it doesnt include Playoffs!

Of course, his regular season play was worthy on its own merit, I merely pointed out the fact that his playoff form was ridiculous that year.

I know it has nothing to do with the award, it has to do with describing where Dirk was at in his career, but I agree with Bill Simmons when he says, your level of play in the post season can somewhat legitimize your awards.

You feel alot safer in your claim that your guy was worthy when he backs it up with a great playoff performance.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 01:33 PM
Of course, his regular season play was worthy on its own merit, I merely pointed out the fact that his playoff form was ridiculous that year.

I know it has nothing to do with the award, it has to do with describing where Dirk was at in his career, but I agree with Bill Simmons when he says, your level of play in the post season can somewhat legitimize your awards.

You feel alot safer in your claim that your guy was worthy when he backs it up with a great playoff performance.

I see your point :)

Stinkyoutsider
04-12-2012, 01:47 PM
No need to hate on Steve Nash. He would be in the running for the MVP this year if Phoenix had a top 3 record...

Nash isn't bad defensively. And, the reasons why Nash deserved the MVPs was because he was playing at a level only 2 or 3 players in the league played at. Usually, the writers pick the best player on the best team.

llemon
04-12-2012, 01:48 PM
Yes he is a top 50 player of all time but he deserved only 1 MVP.

That is your opinion.

But the decision was not yours to make.

willabeast77
04-12-2012, 01:50 PM
Shaq deserved the MVP in 05' and LeBron or Dirk deserved it in 06'

llemon
04-12-2012, 02:02 PM
Shaq deserved the MVP in 05' and LeBron or Dirk deserved it in 06'

Cryin' shame they didn't get it

MickeyMgl
04-12-2012, 05:07 PM
umm because he had [more than] two amazing seasons and his team was dominant...

Not that dominant if you can't even reach the Finals. But 62 wins is good, even if not "dominant". In any case, Good players + Good coach = Good team.

MickeyMgl
04-12-2012, 05:09 PM
MVP basically means the player on the team that can make the team better and can win.

Where do you get that from?

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Not that dominant if you can't even reach the Finals. But 62 wins is good, even if not "dominant". In any case, Good players + Good coach = Good team.

I think what he meant by an amazing season is Regular Season.

That is why there are 2 MVP's
Regular Season MVP's and Finals MVP. The Finals MVP is basically the MVP for the Playoffs. So if you are saying that Nash should not be an MVP because he didnt reach the finals, then that defeats the purpose of having a Regular season MVP.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 05:17 PM
His second MVP was a joke

jayjay33
04-12-2012, 05:22 PM
Funny to me that some people still parrot this cliche' that defense is "50% of the game" even when it concerns point guards, and simultaneously seem to assume that Nash is so deficient defensively that his out-of-control offensive genius/efficiency/playmaking is somehow entirely mitigated because he can't defend Jason Kidd in the post.

Anybody who can't guard derek fisher (still luv ya fish) is as bad as it gets defensively.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 05:24 PM
His second MVP was a joke

His second one was actually the most deserving one. Amare was out for the season with an injury yet they are 3rd in the league and 2nd in their conference.

jayjay33
04-12-2012, 05:24 PM
Here is the list of back to back MVPs, can you spot the odd man out?


2009-2010 - Lebron James, Cleveland
2008-2009 - Lebron James, Cleveland

2005-06 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2004-05 - Steve Nash, Phoenix

2002-03 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio

1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago

1989-90 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers

1985-86 - Larry Bird, Boston
1984-85 - Larry Bird, Boston
1983-84 - Larry Bird, Boston

1982-83 - Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1981-82 - Moses Malone, Houston

1976-77 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1975-76 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles

1971-72 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1970-71 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee

1967-68 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966-67 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1965-66 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia

1962-63 - Bill Russell, Boston
1961-62 - Bill Russell, Boston
1960-61 - Bill Russell, Boston

---


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Ray Charles could spot this one.

2-ONE-5
04-12-2012, 05:26 PM
Mods please lock this thread.

I think the better question is, how in world does Nash ONLY have two MVPs?

Amen. Really should have 3. I just think Dirk was worthy enough when he got it and they were prob tired of givin it to Nash

jayjay33
04-12-2012, 05:33 PM
The problems is people only take team in to consideration when the team is good. Ie....... best player on the best team.

But what Kobe did with that team that made the playoffs and took the suns to seven. Was all time great. That might be the worst team ever.

miller74
04-12-2012, 05:41 PM
Mods please lock this thread.

I think the better question is, how in world does Nash ONLY have two MVPs?

For real, the year following his 2 MVP's might have been his best year.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 05:45 PM
His second one was actually the most deserving one. Amare was out for the season with an injury yet they are 3rd in the league and 2nd in their conference.

LeBron and Kobe deserved it much more that year. Him winning the MVP was a joke. Nash was playing with Marion and Co. while LeBron had......Donyell Marshall

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 05:48 PM
LeBron and Kobe deserved it much more that year. Him winning the MVP was a joke.

Again I'm going back to stats. Kobe is 7th in the west. nuff said Cavs is in 4th in the east which is a weaker conference. What arguement is there left? How can you be the Most Valueable Player if you cant bring your team to the level that Nash brought his team in despite the condition of his team (injuries etc.)

gattaca
04-12-2012, 05:49 PM
I think he should have won 3 in a row actually.

Some of you are being morons. You were probably in elementary school when Nash won his MVPs. Don't judge his MVPs by how he plays now.That's like judging Michael Jordan based on his time with the Wizards. It's not relevant.
He was an absolute machine.

thephoenixson28
04-12-2012, 05:49 PM
Should've won 3

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 05:53 PM
Again I'm going back to stats. Kobe is 7th in the west. nuff said Cavs is in 4th in the east which is a weaker conference. What arguement is there left? How can you be the Most Valueable Player if you cant bring your team to the level that Nash brought his team in despite the condition of his team (injuries etc.)
Since when is the MVP a team award? WHo are we giving it to this year? CJ Watson? LeBron blew him out of the water both years he won it and if you like team accomplishments how about single handidly bringing them to the finals.

thephoenixson28
04-12-2012, 05:53 PM
Steve Nash stats in a Run n Gun system is as inflated as Kobe shooting a bunch and scoring a lot.

thephoenixson28
04-12-2012, 05:55 PM
Since when is the MVP a team award? WHo are we giving it to this year? CJ Watson? LeBron blew him out of the water both years he won it.

It's a team award, when it comes to losing that player. If Phoenix didn't have Nash, they aren't even sniffing the Western conference finals.

SteveNash
04-12-2012, 05:56 PM
Stupid journalist who know nothing about the game of basketball. Trying to crown the next great white hype while trying to stupidly equate PG to QB.

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 05:57 PM
It's a team award, when it comes to losing that player. If Phoenix didn't have Nash, they aren't even sniffing the Western conference finals.

Ummmmmmmmmmm the Cavs made the FINALS that year, and did it by beating a championship team in the Pistons. Without LeBron that year not only do they not make it to the finals but they probably have the 1st pick in the lottery.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 06:01 PM
Ummmmmmmmmmm the Cavs made the FINALS that year, and did it by beating a championship team in the Pistons. Without LeBron that year not only do they not make it to the finals but they probably have the 1st pick in the lottery.

Going to the finals means Playoffs!!! Regular season is different from playoffs. Regular season MVP is judging a player up to the point of ending the REGULAR SEASON. Playoffs is not included.

THE MTL
04-12-2012, 06:02 PM
04-05 Lakers 34-48 Did not even make the playoffs. So how is he deserving?
05-06 Lakers 45-31 7th seed. How is he going to be an mvp if he is only in the 7th seed after winning 3 Championships before?

Seriously, the Lakers made it to 7th seed because of Kobe Bryant. Without him, they would have like top 5 lottery team. Kobe singlehandedly took them to the 7th seed and that is a good record considering who Kobe played with.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 06:03 PM
Ummmmmmmmmmm the Cavs made the FINALS that year, and did it by beating a championship team in the Pistons. Without LeBron that year not only do they not make it to the finals but they probably have the 1st pick in the lottery.

Will you give the MVP to Lebron then from 2004-2009? because he carried the weak Cavaliers team on his back the whole time.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 06:04 PM
Seriously, the Lakers made it to 7th seed because of Kobe Bryant. Without him, they would have like top 5 lottery team. Kobe singlehandedly took them to the 7th seed and that is a good record considering who Kobe played with.

my point exactly... now reverse the role... Suns are 2nd in the west WITH NASH. take NASH OUT. where would they be?

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 06:05 PM
Going to the finals means Playoffs!!! Regular season is different from playoffs. Regular season MVP is judging a player up to the point of ending the REGULAR SEASON. Playoffs is not included.

Exactly judging a PLAYER not a TEAM. And LeBron's REGULAR season blew Nash's regular season out of the water.Stop trying about to make this about Amar'e. LeBron was playing with absolute trash, guys who didn't belong in the league.

THE MTL
04-12-2012, 06:05 PM
Steve Nash stats in a Run n Gun system is as inflated as Kobe shooting a bunch and scoring a lot.

Well during Nash's two MVP reigns he shot 50% FG 40% 3pt 90% FT.

How do u inflate those statistics? Answer: YOU CANNOT!

waveycrockett
04-12-2012, 06:07 PM
Will you give the MVP to Lebron then from 2004-2009? because he carried the weak Cavaliers team on his back the whole time.

Hmmm

HOF Coach Doc Rivers THIS WEEK

"LeBron, to me, is the favorite every year. If he doesn't win it, its because people are tired of voting for him"

I think I'm going with the HOF coach on this one. Can't go wrong with a damn near triple double every year.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 06:08 PM
Exactly judging a PLAYER not a TEAM. And LeBron's REGULAR season blew Nash's regular season out of the water.Stop trying about to make this about Amar'e. LeBron was playing with absolute trash, guys who didn't belong in the league.

ok how can you judge a player? is it by stats? is it by accomplishment to himself? ISNT IT BY A TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT? Why is Monta Ellis snubbed in allstars when he is in the top 10 scoring averages last year and this year? It is because his team sucks. You are judged based on your team!

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 06:10 PM
Hmmm

HOF Coach Doc Rivers THIS WEEK

"LeBron, to me, is the favorite every year. If he doesn't win it, its because people are tired of voting for him"

I think I'm going with the HOF coach on this one. Can't go wrong with a damn near triple double every year.

I for one thinks that he should have won more than 2 but what can we do? :D

thephoenixson28
04-12-2012, 06:13 PM
Well during Nash's two MVP reigns he shot 50% FG 40% 3pt 90% FT.

How do u inflate those statistics? Answer: YOU CANNOT!

Exactly my point, the thread starter said that Nash statistics were inflated.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 06:16 PM
Exactly my point, the thread starter said that Nash statistics were inflated.

I guess he has a magical way of inflating % :D:D:D

rockets-fan
04-12-2012, 06:54 PM
He deserved both those Mvp's but not any more

Cfrey
04-12-2012, 07:15 PM
I hope LeBron wins the MVP.

I'd like to see him win 5 for his career.

coryd238
04-12-2012, 07:36 PM
Carrying teams offensively.... and yeah, it's not like Nash is putting up the same stats without D'antoni... oh wait.

Defense? You're probably one of the guys that wants KD to win MVP.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 07:38 PM
If there is such a thing as MVP for over 35, I would give it to him again:D

TubbyBucket
04-12-2012, 07:53 PM
I guess he has a magical way of inflating % :D:D:D

His advanced stats are pretty awful for an MVP, near the realm of Derrick Rose and AI.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mvp.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html

jayjay33
04-12-2012, 07:59 PM
Again I'm going back to stats. Kobe is 7th in the west. nuff said Cavs is in 4th in the east which is a weaker conference. What arguement is there left? How can you be the Most Valueable Player if you cant bring your team to the level that Nash brought his team in despite the condition of his team (injuries etc.)

Cause nash would have been in the lottery with kobe's team.

TubbyBucket
04-12-2012, 08:02 PM
The other weak number in the bunch belongs to Kobe from 07-08, when CP3 probably should've won.

All in all, Nash probably wasn't undeserving, but in the larger picture, he was slightly overrated.

TheBatchelor213
04-12-2012, 08:05 PM
Dumb thread. One could argue he should win the mvp this yr.

llemon
04-12-2012, 08:05 PM
Divine Intervention

TubbyBucket
04-12-2012, 08:07 PM
Dumb thread. One could argue he should win the mvp this yr.

And one could argue that Carrot Top is the smartest man alive.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 08:07 PM
Cause nash would have been in the lottery with kobe's team.

But that does not make Kobe an MVP for that year since they are at 7th.

MickeyMgl
04-12-2012, 08:36 PM
I think what he meant by an amazing season is Regular Season.

That is why there are 2 MVP's
Regular Season MVP's and Finals MVP. The Finals MVP is basically the MVP for the Playoffs. So if you are saying that Nash should not be an MVP because he didnt reach the finals, then that defeats the purpose of having a Regular season MVP.

I acknowledged the 62 wins, which IMO is good but not dominant.

llemon
04-12-2012, 09:15 PM
I acknowledged the 62 wins, which IMO is good but not dominant.

Did you get a vote that would determine who would be MVP that season?

IndyRealist
04-12-2012, 10:50 PM
50/40/90 with double digit assists. Each year he was regular season MVP it looked like the Suns were going to the Finals. Even at 38 years old half the teams in the league would trade their starting PG and picks for him.

ZebraCity916
04-12-2012, 11:26 PM
He was more valuable to his team than any other player to their own respective teams 2 years in a row. That's how.

Sactown
04-12-2012, 11:53 PM
Cause nash would have been in the lottery with kobe's team.

It's not "the best player in the league" It's "most valuable player" nobody ever said it goes to the best player.

HouRealCoach
04-13-2012, 12:44 AM
First of all, he plays no defense. 50% of the basketball game (Defense) Steve Nash is unaccounted for. He is turnover machine. And Mike D'Antoni system has track record inflating players stats. Nash isn't considered top50 player. On the other hand, KG only has one MVP, Shaq only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP.

Lets see... PHX in 04 was a 29 win team but with Nash they were an instant 62 win squad and in 06 he led a team without a big man and Boris Diaw at Center to the second seed in the west

KG only had Minnesota looking like championship contenders one year... He won that year he could have won in 2003 but Tim Duncan was well deserved

In 2008 where he was on a good squad CHRIS PAUL should have won
2009, 2010, & 2011 they got it right

Only year Kobe could have won was in 2006 but he ROBBED Chris Paul in 2008... Kobe only deserves ONE

HouRealCoach
04-13-2012, 12:51 AM
Cause nash would have been in the lottery with kobe's team.

Not true... Nash knows how to make players better

Kobe doesn't

Nash's team didn't have a big man and he was the second seed and also went to the WCF

Nash also shot +50% FG, +90% FT, +40% 3pt, led the league in assists

HouRealCoach
04-13-2012, 12:54 AM
Seriously, the Lakers made it to 7th seed because of Kobe Bryant. Without him, they would have like top 5 lottery team. Kobe singlehandedly took them to the 7th seed and that is a good record considering who Kobe played with.

Of course Lamar Odom averaging 15, 9, 5.5 had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it neither did Phil Jackson being the coach... I mean he is only the greatest coach ever

jayjay33
04-13-2012, 12:55 AM
Seriously, the Lakers made it to 7th seed because of Kobe Bryant. Without him, they would have like top 5 lottery team. Kobe singlehandedly took them to the 7th seed and that is a good record considering who Kobe played with.

my point exactly... now reverse the role... Suns are 2nd in the west WITH NASH. take NASH OUT. where would they be?

10 times Better than that lakers team without Kobe......amare, matrix, barbosa or Walton , smushed and kawma......not even close doesnt even do it justice.

KB-Pau-DH2012
04-13-2012, 01:00 AM
Not true... Nash knows how to make players better

Kobe doesn't



Nash is a point guard, and so if you're a point guard, you better damn know how to make your teammates better and maximize their talents.


Kobe is a shooting guard, a scorer, a closer.



Two different players with two different roles in two completely different style of offenses at the time.


But on defense...Kobe >>>>> Nash's nonexistent defense.

HouRealCoach
04-13-2012, 01:00 AM
10 times Better than that lakers team without Kobe......amare, matrix, barbosa or Walton , smushed and kawma......not even close doesnt even do it justice.

Actually they were just a 29 win team and the year you are talking about they didnt have Amare

This would be the lineup...

Diaw
Marion
Thomas
Bell
Barbosa

Not that good of a team

eibbor
04-13-2012, 01:02 AM
10 times Better than that lakers team without Kobe......amare, matrix, barbosa or Walton , smushed and kawma......not even close doesnt even do it justice.

Don't think so

HouRealCoach
04-13-2012, 01:05 AM
Nash is a point guard, and so if you're a point guard, you better damn know how to make your teammates better and maximize their talents.


Kobe is a shooting guard, a scorer, a closer.



Two different players with two different roles in two completely different style of offenses at the time.


But on defense...Kobe >>>>> Nash's nonexistent defense.

Lebron makes players better, Jordan did, Shaq did... Just because your not playing PG doesn't mean u cant make your players better

But Kobe didnt win because his team was a 7th seed... If you want to win MVP u have to make your team look like a threat to win the title and that is what Nash did and Kobe didn't

eibbor
04-13-2012, 01:10 AM
He won them because he deserved them. Dude might play til he's fiddy and if he did I'd take him every year.

His def is under rated because when you run the break it's a dif game.

If you aren't asked to do something...

dodie53
04-13-2012, 02:22 AM
he deserved it.
period.

EYDI819
04-13-2012, 12:25 PM
Nash is a point guard, and so if you're a point guard, you better damn know how to make your teammates better and maximize their talents.


Kobe is a shooting guard, a scorer, a closer.



Two different players with two different roles in two completely different style of offenses at the time.


But on defense...Kobe >>>>> Nash's nonexistent defense.

Kobe's defense is really good but we are talking about MVP's not defensive player of the year.

atl_braves_fan
04-13-2012, 12:49 PM
MVP = Most VALUEBLE Player. Not the best player, not the greatest players, not the most clutch but the Most VALUABLE Player. Ok thats out of the way someone try to watch the suns play ball when nash sits down or is injured or whatever, with the exception of a couple good games from telfair this year and maybe 1 or 2 from dragic before, its a f###### trainwreck and to an extent you question how some of these players are in the nba.

No offense intended, but this is a really ridiculous argument. What could possibly be more valuable than being the best player? The award is for the most valuable player (which is an objective measure), not the most valuable player to his team given his specific situation (which, for the reasons you pointed out, is a very subjective measure).

If you want to give Steve Nash an award for best really good player to fit into D'Antoni's system in 2005, I don't think anyone would argue. However, Steve Nash was not the Most Valuable Player in those years - because he wasn't the best player in those years.

If you were redrafting the league after the 2005 season I doubt there is anyone that would rather have Steve Nash than Lebron and his 31ppg/7rpg/7apg or Garnett and his 23ppg/14rpg/6apg (both while playing incredible defense). There were other player better than Nash (and, therefore, more valuable) those years as well, KG and Lebron are just a couple of examples

willabeast77
04-13-2012, 01:32 PM
No offense intended, but this is a really ridiculous argument. What could possibly be more valuable than being the best player? The award is for the most valuable player (which is an objective measure), not the most valuable player to his team given his specific situation (which, for the reasons you pointed out, is a very subjective measure).

If you want to give Steve Nash an award for best really good player to fit into D'Antoni's system in 2005, I don't think anyone would argue. However, Steve Nash was not the Most Valuable Player in those years - because he wasn't the best player in those years.

If you were redrafting the league after the 2005 season I doubt there is anyone that would rather have Steve Nash than Lebron and his 31ppg/7rpg/7apg or Garnett and his 23ppg/14rpg/6apg (both while playing incredible defense). There were other player better than Nash (and, therefore, more valuable) those years as well, KG and Lebron are just a couple of examples


I agree. Nash benefited because of D'Antoni's system and it was clear. His numbers were good but not MVP great. Also Amar'e was better than Nash in 05' but Nash got the credit for "making him better".

HouRealCoach
04-13-2012, 01:39 PM
No offense intended, but this is a really ridiculous argument. What could possibly be more valuable than being the best player? The award is for the most valuable player (which is an objective measure), not the most valuable player to his team given his specific situation (which, for the reasons you pointed out, is a very subjective measure).

If you want to give Steve Nash an award for best really good player to fit into D'Antoni's system in 2005, I don't think anyone would argue. However, Steve Nash was not the Most Valuable Player in those years - because he wasn't the best player in those years.

If you were redrafting the league after the 2005 season I doubt there is anyone that would rather have Steve Nash than Lebron and his 31ppg/7rpg/7apg or Garnett and his 23ppg/14rpg/6apg (both while playing incredible defense). There were other player better than Nash (and, therefore, more valuable) those years as well, KG and Lebron are just a couple of examples

Funny u say that because the KG that averaged those numbers in 2005, 2006, and 2007 didn't see one playoff game... I agree in 2006 LeBron would have been a legit choice to win MVP but if you go look at that year its many players that you couldn't have went wrong with...

2-ONE-5
04-13-2012, 01:45 PM
[/B]

I agree. Nash benefited because of D'Antoni's system and it was clear. His numbers were good but not MVP great. Also Amar'e was better than Nash in 05' but Nash got the credit for "making him better".

so who is Nash benefiting from now? hei s having another MVP worthy year. did u ever think that Nash made D'Antonis system look good?

willabeast77
04-13-2012, 01:55 PM
so who is Nash benefiting from now? hei s having another MVP worthy year. did u ever think that Nash made D'Antonis system look good?

Well I don't seem him as having another MVP season. He's been pretty good but the Suns isn't in the playoff contention atm. And I wasn't arguing that he made D'Antoni's system good. D'Antoni made Nash good- it goes both ways.

valade16
04-13-2012, 02:13 PM
so who is Nash benefiting from now? hei s having another MVP worthy year. did u ever think that Nash made D'Antonis system look good?

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.

I mean, outside of Steve Nash, when has D'Antoni's system experienced any success?..

ghettosean
04-13-2012, 02:14 PM
Go to a whorehouse on mushrooms.
:laugh2:

king4day
04-13-2012, 02:35 PM
Hmmm

HOF Coach Doc Rivers THIS WEEK

"LeBron, to me, is the favorite every year. If he doesn't win it, its because people are tired of voting for him"

I think I'm going with the HOF coach on this one. Can't go wrong with a damn near triple double every year.

I don't see Doc getting into the Hall. He's a good coach but doesn't have a big enough track record. He started looking elite when KG came. Before that, wasn't he on the verge of being fired?


[/B]

I agree. Nash benefited because of D'Antoni's system and it was clear. His numbers were good but not MVP great. Also Amar'e was better than Nash in 05' but Nash got the credit for "making him better".

Nash hasn't been part of a run and gun system for years now and he still plays MVP ball.

mdm692
04-13-2012, 02:48 PM
I hope LeBron wins the MVP.

I'd like to see him win 5 for his career.

i want to see him win not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, but as many as he can as long as he doesnt get a ring :D

Lake_Show2416
04-13-2012, 02:50 PM
well he earned 1 of them & stole 1 from Kobe :D

mdm692
04-13-2012, 03:08 PM
I love how people say D'antonis system maxde nash when mike has been out of phoenix for years now yet nash still puts up numbers similar to his mvp seasons. The most recent example as to why nash deserved the mvp's is shannon brown. All season long brown played in the bench and at one point was out of the rotation then grant hill goes out he gets inserted into the line up and becomes the suns go to scorer averaging 18ppg as a starter. Last year very similar scenario, we had troubles at the sg position(vince carter) and we put jared dudley, the guy with a 5 inch vertical, as a starter and he averages 17ppg as a starter. Heck look at what nash has done to marcin gortat. In 05 the suns traded away q for kurt thomas, joe johnson for raja bell and diaw, plus stoudemire played just 3 games. We had a line up of
Nash/scrub
Bell/barbosa
Marion/scrub
Diaw/tim thomas
Kurt thomas/scrub
Yet the suns were one of the leagues best records and diaw got MIPY. So please mods close this thread thereis no argument as to nash not being deserving.

atl_braves_fan
04-13-2012, 03:13 PM
Funny u say that because the KG that averaged those numbers in 2005, 2006, and 2007 didn't see one playoff game... I agree in 2006 LeBron would have been a legit choice to win MVP but if you go look at that year its many players that you couldn't have went wrong with...

Teams make playoffs and win championships.

Individuals accumulate stats and win MVP awards and other individual awards.

KG is an individual who happened to have been better and more valuable than Steve Nash in those years. The Phoenix Suns are a team who happened to be better than the Minnesota Timberwolves in those years (and most years, for that matter).

llemon
04-13-2012, 03:24 PM
Teams make playoffs and win championships.

Individuals accumulate stats and win MVP awards and other individual awards.

KG is an individual who happened to have been better and more valuable than Steve Nash in those years. The Phoenix Suns are a team who happened to be better than the Minnesota Timberwolves in those years (and most years, for that matter).

Sorry, but I see Nash as a player that makes his teammates better more than I see Garnett as a player that makes his teammates better.

This is not to say that Nash is a better player than Garnett.

But it also doesn't mean that Garnett is a better player than Nash.

The Final Boss
04-13-2012, 03:30 PM
Funny to me that some people still parrot this cliche' that defense is "50% of the game" even when it concerns point guards, and simultaneously seem to assume that Nash is so deficient defensively that his out-of-control offensive genius/efficiency/playmaking is somehow entirely mitigated because he can't defend Jason Kidd in the post.

This post would carry weight if you were, you know...right. If you cut the head off a snake it's useless and in most cases point guards are the head of most team's snake. Too bad point guards do much much more than post up. I can't think of a point guard who has a post game.

Nomar
04-13-2012, 03:36 PM
You obviously cant see past statistics.

MickeyMgl
04-13-2012, 04:14 PM
It's not "the best player in the league" It's "most valuable player" nobody ever said it goes to the best player.

"The best player" should be "the most valuable player", as in "Who would be the most valuable player to ANY team?".

SteveNash
04-13-2012, 05:29 PM
I love how people say D'antonis system maxde nash when mike has been out of phoenix for years now yet nash still puts up numbers similar to his mvp seasons. The most recent example as to why nash deserved the mvp's is shannon brown. All season long brown played in the bench and at one point was out of the rotation then grant hill goes out he gets inserted into the line up and becomes the suns go to scorer averaging 18ppg as a starter. Last year very similar scenario, we had troubles at the sg position(vince carter) and we put jared dudley, the guy with a 5 inch vertical, as a starter and he averages 17ppg as a starter. Heck look at what nash has done to marcin gortat. In 05 the suns traded away q for kurt thomas, joe johnson for raja bell and diaw, plus stoudemire played just 3 games. We had a line up of
Nash/scrub
Bell/barbosa
Marion/scrub
Diaw/tim thomas
Kurt thomas/scrub
Yet the suns were one of the leagues best records and diaw got MIPY. So please mods close this thread thereis no argument as to nash not being deserving.

How was Nash under Terry Porter?

atl_braves_fan
04-13-2012, 06:02 PM
Sorry, but I see Nash as a player that makes his teammates better more than I see Garnett as a player that makes his teammates better.

This is not to say that Nash is a better player than Garnett.

But it also doesn't mean that Garnett is a better player than Nash.

I am not sure how that first part is relevant to my post. Nash may make his teammates better, he may not. He may just be on good teams. NBA players may just love to play their best for the Suns because they have hottest dancers - who knows for sure? My point was only that you can't solely judge the value of an individual's performance in any given season based on his team's results.

For example, in 2006, Jason Williams won a ring with the Heat and Steve Nash did not. In no way, shape or form is Jason Willams in Steve Nash's class on an individual level, but his team achieved better results. Similarly, Steve Nash's team, the Phoenix Suns, achieved a better result than Kevin Garnett's team, the Minnesota Timberwolves, achieved in 2005-2006 season.

Those team results don't change the fact that Kevin Garnett (and a few others) had a much better season individually than Steve Nash did. If they were better individual players Steve Nash that year, they produced more value than Steve Nash that year - regardless of team results (i.e. there were several players that were more deserving of the MVP award than Steve Nash was).