PDA

View Full Version : If PSD existed in the 60's-70's



Chronz
04-11-2012, 09:37 PM
Listening to the debate from this morning, or what will be basically go down as the emasculation of Jalen(whole other topic), a few things he said stuck out to me.

He mentioned Jerry West playing today, and how our mutated media would portray him as a loser due to the 9 straight Finals losses he suffered, and he wouldnt be known as Mr.Clutch anymore.

Do you agree, would the media label him a choker? Would the fans be influenced in the slightest if they did or would we still recognize the truth?

Aside from him transport our society and how our media functions, how do you think the following stars at the time would be depicted;

Bill Russell: GOAT? Specialist?
Jerry West: Mr Clutch? Choke Artist?
Wilt Chamberlain: Most Dominating Talent? Greatest Waste of Talent?
Big O : Greatest All-Around player? Needed KAJ to win a title
KAJ: GOAT? Magic+BIG O = True MVP's
Elgin Baylor: Medical Marvel or Cancerous hog?

4 POINT PLAY LJ
04-11-2012, 09:43 PM
People had a different mentality back then

McPeak92
04-11-2012, 09:46 PM
Wilt would be considered the greatest of all time, imagine how quick twitter would blow up/PSD server would crash if someone dropped 100 points today.

Baller1
04-11-2012, 09:50 PM
Damn, this is some pretty profound stuff here Chronz. Tough to answer quite frankly.

It makes it even tougher for me considering I wasn't around in these times.

Ebbs
04-11-2012, 09:56 PM
Listening to the debate from this morning, or what will be basically go down as the emasculation of Jalen(whole other topic), a few things he said stuck out to me.

He mentioned Jerry West playing today, and how our mutated media would portray him as a loser due to the 9 straight Finals losses he suffered, and he wouldnt be known as Mr.Clutch anymore.

Do you agree, would the media label him a choker? Would the fans be influenced in the slightest if they did or would we still recognize the truth?

Aside from him transport our society and how our media functions, how do you think the following stars at the time would be depicted;

Bill Russell: GOAT? Specialist?
Jerry West: Mr Clutch? Choke Artist?
Wilt Chamberlain: Most Dominating Talent? Greatest Waste of Talent?
Big O : Greatest All-Around player? Needed KAJ to win a title
KAJ: GOAT? Magic+BIG O = True MVP's
Elgin Baylor: Medical Marvel or Cancerous hog?

Specialist (He would be considered as a much better cersion of Tyson Chandler.)
Choke Artist (9 final losses would never have been forgiven, can't forgive LeBron for 1.)
Most dominating talent.
Great all around player (I see him being viewed similar to CP3)
Magic and Oscar true MVP's.
Cancerous hog (monta ellis views)

JordansBulls
04-11-2012, 11:58 PM
Listening to the debate from this morning, or what will be basically go down as the emasculation of Jalen(whole other topic), a few things he said stuck out to me.

He mentioned Jerry West playing today, and how our mutated media would portray him as a loser due to the 9 straight Finals losses he suffered, and he wouldnt be known as Mr.Clutch anymore.

Do you agree, would the media label him a choker? Would the fans be influenced in the slightest if they did or would we still recognize the truth?

Aside from him transport our society and how our media functions, how do you think the following stars at the time would be depicted;

Bill Russell: GOAT? Specialist?
Jerry West: Mr Clutch? Choke Artist?
Wilt Chamberlain: Most Dominating Talent? Greatest Waste of Talent?
Big O : Greatest All-Around player? Needed KAJ to win a title
KAJ: GOAT? Magic+BIG O = True MVP's
Elgin Baylor: Medical Marvel or Cancerous hog?

Not sure you would have many GOAT topics for a sport that had only been around 20 years.

Bramaca
04-12-2012, 12:05 AM
If the media and ease of access to stats, games on tv for fans then I think a lot of the aura of greatness for some of those players would be less. Back then journalists wouldn't report a lot of the stuff that is now. In the late 60's early 70's asteriks would be placed beside nearly any title winner because of the amount of expansion and a competing league.

thekmp211
04-12-2012, 12:53 AM
i'm gonna guess that a lot of this kind of material is actually out there if one were to look. just not in endless 24/7 news media internet form. interesting to think about, though. hard to think russell wouldn't be the standard of excellence, and his style of play is a lot different than todays. media made bird, magic and jordan stars and their styles stuck. who knows what it'd be like if russell and wilt were playing to live t.v. audiences and tweeting after games. wilt might have broken twitter.


Not sure you would have many GOAT topics for a sport that had only been around 20 years.

babe ruth? tony hawk? shaun white? johnny unidas? 20 years these days is pretty much ****ing infinity.

DerekRE_3
04-12-2012, 02:36 AM
If PSD existed back then Jordans Bulls would still...somehow come up with Tracy McGrady threads.

Whomewhome
04-12-2012, 03:08 AM
Chronz still around and still posting some of the best topics in the NBA forum I like! :D

Been a long time man.

JLynn943
04-12-2012, 03:37 AM
If the media in its current state existed back when those players played, I'm sure a lot of the negative labels you proposed would have been used. It didn't though, so we're left with a long history of relatively untarnished stars that will be pretty much untouchable in terms of their prestige.

Iodine
04-12-2012, 11:51 AM
If PSD existed back then Jordans Bulls would still...somehow come up with Tracy McGrady threads.

:laugh2:

And if PSD was around in the 60's, I would totally be down with nuclear holocaust

alexander_37
04-12-2012, 11:53 AM
How do decent threads like this have 11 posts while stupid **** about Shumpert or Kobes finger/penis/lost locks of hair get 50-100+....

DaBUU
04-12-2012, 12:00 PM
I often wonder how much society has changed due to social media and a 48 hour news cycle. One thing is for sure MJ would be crucified for all his illegal gambling and whoring. No way that gets swept under the rug nowadays. good topic.

Cal827
04-12-2012, 12:08 PM
If PSD existed back then Jordans Bulls would still...somehow come up with Tracy McGrady threads.


:laugh:

If PSD existed back then, Jordans Bulls would be a mod in the prime of his life.

LongIslandIcedZ
04-12-2012, 12:11 PM
How do decent threads like this have 11 posts while stupid **** about Shumpert or Kobes finger/penis/lost locks of hair get 50-100+....

Because of the lack of controversey surrounding interesting threads.

It would be a lot different because of the different mentalities of the media and fans.

sanjay_prick
04-12-2012, 12:34 PM
It's amazing how everything has evolved around this sport, and all other sports. Because of the coverage and the social media that exists today, players are much more scrutinized, and fans have a greater awareness of the game (which is a positive and a negative).

There are also many more so-called "analysts" in today's game than there has ever been. Hell, every sports-blogger and sports forum participant (yes, every PSD user) thinks they are an analyst, or can be an analyst. Because of this, for every good thing a player does, people will always find and attack the negative.

Imagine, back in the day, analysts and broadcasters were few and far between. They probably didn't have anything more than a broadcasting degree (if any). Now you've got ex-players, ex-coaches, degrees in sports journalism, sports psychology, and so on. Back in the day, there were only a handful of games televised, in a few stations. Now, we have the internet and cable TV to show us every single highlight from every single game.

So if today, Wilt scored 100 points, 9 out of 10 people will applaud and look at this feat, but there will always be a handful of people who will find an excuse to criticize to the tiniest detail (ex: oh, but he did it against this team, or he took x number of shots, or look who's guarding him, and so-and-so is the worst coach in the game) instead of appreciating that accomplishment.

NYKalltheway
04-12-2012, 12:37 PM
Not sure you would have many GOAT topics for a sport that had only been around 20 years.

The sport has been spread around the world since 1915 so i think that makes your comment rather invalid.

JordansBulls
04-12-2012, 12:40 PM
The sport has been spread around the world since 1915 so i think that makes your comment rather invalid.

NBA started in 1947 buddy.

MTar786
04-12-2012, 12:56 PM
if PSD was around during the 50's and 60's KAJ would be a lot more appreciated, russell would be considered not as great as he is. hell, if PSD was around during the 90's and early 2000's then shaq would be more appreciated too. the man was an unstoppable force.
tmac would also be more appreciated. but now it seems he's been forgotten

lvlheaded
04-12-2012, 01:00 PM
Somebody said no one forgives LeBron for 1 finals loss...he has 2 finals loses :D

That said, this is a great topic. It would certainly be interesting to see how history would portray these stars if media was as big a part of the game and the world then as it is now

mjm07
04-12-2012, 01:17 PM
:laugh:

If PSD existed back then, Jordans Bulls would be a mod in the prime of his life.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Chronz
04-12-2012, 01:17 PM
It's amazing how everything has evolved around this sport, and all other sports. Because of the coverage and the social media that exists today, players are much more scrutinized, and fans have a greater awareness of the game (which is a positive and a negative).

There are also many more so-called "analysts" in today's game than there has ever been. Hell, every sports-blogger and sports forum participant (yes, every PSD user) thinks they are an analyst, or can be an analyst. Because of this, for every good thing a player does, people will always find and attack the negative.

Imagine, back in the day, analysts and broadcasters were few and far between. They probably didn't have anything more than a broadcasting degree (if any). Now you've got ex-players, ex-coaches, degrees in sports journalism, sports psychology, and so on. Back in the day, there were only a handful of games televised, in a few stations. Now, we have the internet and cable TV to show us every single highlight from every single game.

So if today, Wilt scored 100 points, 9 out of 10 people will applaud and look at this feat, but there will always be a handful of people who will find an excuse to criticize to the tiniest detail (ex: oh, but he did it against this team, or he took x number of shots, or look who's guarding him, and so-and-so is the worst coach in the game) instead of appreciating that accomplishment.

Good post.

I think the fact that there are so many more voices to be heard now kind of drowns out the idea of any sort of consensus. At the least it makes it harder to come to one with so many arguments being made. I wonder if Wilt heard as much smack when he dropped 100 as Kobe did for his 81PT game, Im sure there were some detractors but I have a feeling it was much more celebrated among fans. For this I think the fans have changed more than the media but I admit I wouldnt even know how to begin comparing them.

Chronz
04-12-2012, 01:28 PM
Specialist (He would be considered as a much better cersion of Tyson Chandler.)
You know how fans today make claims like so and so would have won with that team too, well Nate Thurmond said the same thing about switching places with Russ back in the day. Do you think fans would have blown up that claim or agreed with it?


Choke Artist (9 final losses would never have been forgiven, can't forgive LeBron for 1.)
Does the media reward West the Finals MVP in defeat?

Chronz
04-12-2012, 01:31 PM
Chronz still around and still posting some of the best topics in the NBA forum I like! :D

Been a long time man.

If you transport our society, Im pretty sure we would find comparisons and rankings to make.

Baller1
04-12-2012, 01:48 PM
You know how fans today make claims like so and so would have won with that team too, well Nate Thurmond said the same thing about switching places with Russ back in the day. Do you think fans would have blown up that claim or agreed with it?


Does the media reward West the Finals MVP in defeat?

Doubtful. While West is obviously a much more respected athlete and person than Lebron, look at the scrutiny Lebron has received for anything and everything he does. No one gives Lebron credit for leading his teams through the playoffs and to the Finals, they're only concerned with knocking him for playing below par once he got there.

So using the basis of PSD now, West would for sure be seen as a choke artist.

Chronz
04-12-2012, 02:00 PM
Yea, Im sure JB would be there to cite West having HCA and I would be there to tell him Boston would have the better team, but Bron gives his detractors some kind of ammo with his play in the Finals, in some cases its understandable but West added much less fuel to the fire by being dominant individually. Im sure hes had some Finals with Bron moments but that specific Finals he averaged 31-4-8 with a monster triple double in G7 (42-13-12).

Then again, JB was all over Bron when he exceeded those #'s in the loss against the Magic in a similar situation.

Baller1
04-12-2012, 02:18 PM
Yea, Im sure JB would be there to cite West having HCA and I would be there to tell him Boston would have the better team, but Bron gives his detractors some kind of ammo with his play in the Finals, in some cases its understandable but West added much less fuel to the fire by being dominant individually. Im sure hes had some Finals with Bron moments but that specific Finals he averaged 31-4-8 with a monster triple double in G7 (42-13-12).

Then again, JB was all over Bron when he exceeded those #'s in the loss against the Magic in a similar situation.

I don't think there's any point in using JB's views as your basis, because in any scenario Lebron will be scrutinized. Then again, I guess that adequately represents PSD...

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 02:32 PM
Listening to the debate from this morning, or what will be basically go down as the emasculation of Jalen(whole other topic), a few things he said stuck out to me.

He mentioned Jerry West playing today, and how our mutated media would portray him as a loser due to the 9 straight Finals losses he suffered, and he wouldnt be known as Mr.Clutch anymore.

Do you agree, would the media label him a choker? Would the fans be influenced in the slightest if they did or would we still recognize the truth?

Aside from him transport our society and how our media functions, how do you think the following stars at the time would be depicted;

Bill Russell: GOAT? Specialist?
Jerry West: Mr Clutch? Choke Artist?
Wilt Chamberlain: Most Dominating Talent? Greatest Waste of Talent?
Big O : Greatest All-Around player? Needed KAJ to win a title
KAJ: GOAT? Magic+BIG O = True MVP's
Elgin Baylor: Medical Marvel or Cancerous hog?

Considering these guys are True Gentlemen, I dont think there are anything REALLY bad to say about them except from the usual haters.

Russel - Specialist/Genius (who in the NBA now can block a shot and get the ball after blocking the opponent on a consistent basis?) Dont know if anything negative can be said about this guy.
West - I would say not really a choke artist because he really did not have any chance against the Celtics. There were only 4 out of 9 of those finals where they actually contended '62, '66, '69 & '72 *where they won) More sympathy than negative comments. You cant really compare him to Lebron because Lebron is hated upon his own actions. If west did anything like "THE DECISION" then I guess he should be hated, but he didn't
Chamberlain - Stat Chaser (He put some other worldy numbers. He averaged 37.6 and 27 on his ROOKIE year! He undoubtedly manhandled everybody on the court with his numbers yet he only has 2 Championships? Some would argue he is a ball hog all for the wrong reasons) I would say a split on this for Positive and Negative
KAJ - Cannot be considered a GOAT (because he had a lot of company that can do other things especially if those company is doing alot more than just numbers.) Some may feel that his MVP's as a Laker should go to somebody else. He should end up with 4 MVP's the most
Baylor - Chucker (he is Kobe without Gasol/O'neal. When Gasol and O'neal was not with the Lakers, Kobe had his way and shot outrageous Field Goal Attempts just because he knows he can score 45% of the time. Shot too many times that is why he averaged 32+ ppg. He had a 55 shot attempt for crying out loud!) He is like a Monta Ellis that cannot bring a team to the promise land

Chronz
04-12-2012, 02:43 PM
Solid breakdown

JordansBulls
04-12-2012, 02:53 PM
Yea, Im sure JB would be there to cite West having HCA and I would be there to tell him Boston would have the better team, but Bron gives his detractors some kind of ammo with his play in the Finals, in some cases its understandable but West added much less fuel to the fire by being dominant individually. Im sure hes had some Finals with Bron moments but that specific Finals he averaged 31-4-8 with a monster triple double in G7 (42-13-12).

Then again, JB was all over Bron when he exceeded those #'s in the loss against the Magic in a similar situation.

The problem is when he gets the credit for everything when they are winning but when they lose everyone else gets the blame or it is said he had crap to work with when in reality all the articles point to them being the favorite just like West was in 1969.

ddent12
04-12-2012, 03:00 PM
Just think of the attention Kareem coming to the Lakers would have gotten back then?


And I'm sure these guys weren't all saints back then. What would have probably been the biggest thing was the drug use. The media would have killed half of the league with that exposure. My Dad had a couple stories that these guys smoked weed, drank a lot, and I'm sure steriods and coke. There was no testing of this stuff back then, at least not as good as the test today.

JasonJohnHorn
04-12-2012, 03:05 PM
I read Jerry West's autobiography, and he beat himself up enough for those loses... he wouldnt have needed the media to do it. Even with his success as a GM, and building two dynasties, he still hung up on those loses.

Yes, the media would tear him apart! Especially with the loses to New York. LA had the better team in those series and they choked. They had been waiting so long for Boston to be out of the picture and then NY just jumps up and steals a couple rings away from West. But the media would have been kinder to West than they are to say, LBJ, because West always played well in those finals appearances, where as had James only played at 75% of his abilities, the Dallas series would have been a sweep! A lot of that lose to Dallas is on James's shoulder. He skipped town on the Cavs to sign up with all-stars and win rings, and after he failed to win with the Cavs, despite having the best record in the league for two straight years, he fails even with all-stars beside him. LBJ has raised the bar high for himself, saying he though he could win multiple championships with this squad, so last year's loss, couple with the 4-game sweep agains the Spurs and failure to get to the NBA finals again with the best regular season team in the league reall hurts James's image as a winner, even though he is the best player in the game today.

The media would have hounded West, likely the same way they hounded Dirk and the Dallas Mavs, and with having eventually won a title, he would have silenced all the critics. But yeah... the culture of the league is so different today. You have entire networks dedicated to sports and basketball, so they are starved for stories, so everything gets blown up. I mean, we are spending half an hour talking about Skip and his 1.4 scoring average as a senior! This is news? Howard doesn't like his coach, ALL KINDS of players didnt like their coaches in the 70's and 60's. You didnt get the kind of attention on every little story the way you do now. It is a whole different culture today.

Chronz
04-12-2012, 03:06 PM
The problem is when he gets the credit for everything when they are winning but when they lose everyone else gets the blame or it is said he had crap to work with when in reality all the articles point to them being the favorite just like West was in 1969.
Not trying to get into either of those arguments again, Im more interested on your thoughts with the comparison, would West be criticized as badly as Bron or would there be less animosity.

EYDI819
04-12-2012, 03:20 PM
What I am wondering about is, if there was these kinda media back then, how would it affect those players that you mentioned? I mean you have to have a pretty thick skin on comments made especially with the social media right now. I wonder if we had all these media outlet and these stupid reporters trying to bring down West, if he would've bounced back to win a Championship in '72 or it would break him and psych him out when the media starts calling him a choker?

Forever35
04-14-2012, 02:44 PM
If PSD existed in the 60's/70's, how the hell would I have been able to fit a monstrosity of a computer in an apartment???

:shrug:

SportsAndrew25
04-14-2012, 06:38 PM
1) There would be tons of Jerry West sigs.

2) There would be tons of Walk Frazier sigs.

3) Knicks fans would have a GIF of Willis Reed coming to the court.

4) There would threads about Red Holtzman being coach of the year.

5) There would be many sigs of Wilt Chamberlain and his 100 sign.

6) We would be talking about the opening of Madison Square Garden and the Forum.

Hawkeye15
04-14-2012, 06:58 PM
great question. We didn't have anything but boxscores, and general understanding of the game, so it would have been difficult to pick apart numbers for instance. So per game numbers meant way more back then. West would absolutely be looked at as a choker today. The media's power is SOOOOO strong today, it would be completely different. Russell would be considered the ultimate specialist/winner.

Today we have articles on a daily basis breaking down player A's numbers or splits, or defensive metrics, etc, etc. Back then, it was per game numbers, and team wins.

Evaluating the game has come a long way (well, for some....). It would be so interesting to see what those players were portrayed as today.