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StealingSigns
04-08-2012, 09:08 PM
Time to start a new one for the new season.

StealingSigns
04-08-2012, 09:09 PM
As per request, Jays forum top 30 prospect picks.

1. Travis D'Arnaud
2. Anthony Gose
3. Jake Marisnick
4. Drew Hutchison
5. Noah Syndergaard
6. Daniel Norris
7. Justin Nicolino
8. Deck McGuire
9. Aaron Sanchez
10. Adonys Cardona
11. AJ Jiminez
12. Jacob Anderson
13. Adeiny Hechavarria
14. Asher Wojciechowski
15. Joe Musgrove
16. Carlos Perez
17. John Stilson
18. Michael Crouse
19. Matt Dean
20. Chad Jenkins
21. Kevin Comer
22. Marcus Knecht
23. Christopher Hawkins
24. Joel Carreno
25. Dwight Smith
26. Moises Sierra
27. David Cooper
28. Roberto Osuna
29. Dickie Joe Thon
30. Jeremy Gabryszwski

Sanyo
04-08-2012, 10:02 PM
Anyone know what Justin Nicolino has not started in Lansing yet? Its the fourth game so Im assuming it will be him coming up but why is he below someone like Marcus Walden? Just want to know if anyone has info...

es0terik
04-08-2012, 10:53 PM
Is Jacob Anderson playing yet? If he is, how's he doing?

Sanyo
04-08-2012, 11:01 PM
Is Jacob Anderson playing yet? If he is, how's he doing?

Nope, I think he's going to start in Bluefield, their season starts in May and then when Vancouver start their season in June he'll get the bump up.

Toxeryll
04-08-2012, 11:55 PM
Starters for tomorrow:

Lansing - Nicolino
Dunedin - Dyson
New Hampshire - Cecil

Dol-Fan
04-09-2012, 12:59 AM
Starters for tomorrow:

Lansing - Nicolino
Dunedin - Dyson
New Hampshire - Cecil

Ooh. Very excited.

torontosports10
04-09-2012, 08:32 AM
My buddy plays for Reading (Phillies AA team) so its awesome to see him going up against the Jays AA team.

Sanyo
04-09-2012, 10:37 AM
My buddy plays for Reading (Phillies AA team) so its awesome to see him going up against the Jays AA team.

whats his name?

torontosports10
04-09-2012, 12:55 PM
Jay Johnson. had a rough first outing out of their pen.

He was drafted by the O's and Jays but never signed cause they didn't like his medical report (Two Tommy Johns) but he is pretty much fine now. He was on the Pan-Am Team Canada that won gold this summer as well.

es0terik
04-09-2012, 02:14 PM
Who's Dyson? I haven't ever heard that name before

Pride
04-09-2012, 03:55 PM
Sam Dyson? He was highly regarded but fell due to arm injuries or something.

Sanyo
04-09-2012, 04:16 PM
Jay Johnson. had a rough first outing out of their pen.

He was drafted by the O's and Jays but never signed cause they didn't like his medical report (Two Tommy Johns) but he is pretty much fine now. He was on the Pan-Am Team Canada that won gold this summer as well.

good luck to him! hope he gets his opportunity.

Sanyo
04-09-2012, 04:19 PM
Dyson's 23 so you have to be realistic about his chance since he's never pitched in a pro game. Injuries have killed him, his fastball was his only plus pitch and has come down in velocity -- would touch 97, now regular at 91, can touch 95. Average off-speed pitches according to scouting reports. Don't see him much more than bullpen help with the Jays or most likely traded ...

Sanyo
04-09-2012, 04:21 PM
The top of the top that I care about is Syndergaard, Nicolino, Sanchez, Cardona, Norris and Osuna.

bomber0104
04-09-2012, 04:28 PM
i'm surprise Dyson is actually starting... last thing i heard about him was that he had a setback again

bomber0104
04-09-2012, 11:09 PM
Lansing shutout the opposition today.. Sanchez and Nicholino beasting

Nic started going 3 perfect innings striking out 5
Sanchez came in and pitched 3 1-hit innings with 2 walks and 4 ks

Cecil got his *** handed to him in AA

Dyson pitched decent allowing 4 runs in 6 innings (i guess he`s healthy)

Good games for Marisnick, Knecht, Jackson

Toxeryll
04-09-2012, 11:28 PM
Lansing shutout the opposition today.. Sanchez and Nicholino beasting

Nic started going 3 perfect innings striking out 5
Sanchez came in and pitched 3 1-hit innings with 2 walks and 4 ks

Cecil got his *** handed to him in AA

Dyson pitched decent allowing 4 runs in 6 innings (i guess he`s healthy)

Good games for Marisnick, Knecht, Jackson

Im so excited for all the Lansing pitchers. Nicolino, Sanchez, Syndergaard :drool:

I dont care about Cecil.

I guess thats a good debut for Dyson. Im surprised he went 6 innings.

I still dont know why Marisnick is hitting leadoff and Hawkins and Sweeney hitting 7th and 9th respectively.

Sanyo
04-09-2012, 11:29 PM
Cecil 6.2 innings, 4 er, 11 hits. Gave a ton of hits, but I guess he must have pitched out of a ton of situations which is a positive. Obviously, he still needs a ton of work right now -- unfortunately it slowly seems like he's going towards the path of Brad Mills which is sad considering his rookie season. Could be one of the biggest busts in a while. They need to figure out what's wrong quick before its over with him and I hope he can figure it out!

Sanyo
04-09-2012, 11:32 PM
Lugnuts will win the championship this year, especially if Norris or Osuna make it to the team this year. Plus your thinking maybe a guy like Jacob Anderson may get a shot near the end. Its a stacked team..

bartron_44
04-10-2012, 07:42 AM
Cecil 6.2 innings, 4 er, 11 hits. Gave a ton of hits, but I guess he must have pitched out of a ton of situations which is a positive. Obviously, he still needs a ton of work right now -- unfortunately it slowly seems like he's going towards the path of Brad Mills which is sad considering his rookie season. Could be one of the biggest busts in a while. They need to figure out what's wrong quick before its over with him and I hope he can figure it out!



I still think Cecil would make a foolish LOOGY out of the bullpen, so I wouldn't call him one of the biggest busts in a while. ..and thats if we don't trade him to a team that thinks they can "fix" him..like STL. However, I think he should try going back to the mechanics that worked for him last year. Why on earth he did he go back to his old bad mechanics after fixing this issue same issue last year? The wind up change of simply lifting his arms over his head instead of leaving them at his belly fixed his issue of leaving the ball up so much, and fixed his velocity issue last year. Then because he drops 40 lbs he thinks he should go back to the old way......does this not seem strange/stupid to anyone else?

I think I mentioned this a month a little while ago. Did anyone else notice this?

bartron_44
04-10-2012, 08:49 AM
The bad news for the Lugnuts championship run is that if the boys keep it up, Syndergaard,Sanchez and Nicolino may not finish the year in Lansing...

The good news is, they could be replaced by guys like Norris,Comer and Musgrove though :)

Nicolino was absolutely dominant in his first 3 innings, Sanchez is looking improved over last year with reports of him firing up to 98 mph, and Syndergaard is not only showing improved off speed pitches and location, but he may be throwing even harder then last year too...


A lot of our top hitting specs are off to hot starts..however I am still waiting for D'Arnaud to turn things around. His hand injury at the end of last year playing for team USA has scared me all winter....a thumb is a big injury for someone trying to swing a bat. It may take him a year or 2 to fully come back after surgery to repair his hand....I hope I am wrong though...

Our OF depth is starting to get silly. Next year we could have all of the following battling for 2 spots (assuming Jose stays in RF)

Rasmus
Thames
Snider
Gose
Sierra
Marisnick



I think AA is going to have some fun this year at the deadline :)

Farsight
04-10-2012, 11:16 AM
I wonder how many weeks of Thames struggling would it take to see Snider recalled? I would say near the end of april, if hes still struggling he gets send down. Some people say his defense has improved, which does not seem true as Farrell continues to substitute Davis late in the games for his defense

Dol-Fan
04-10-2012, 01:34 PM
Hutch goes tonight for NH

Last night recap

Lansing
Perez 1-4, BB, 2 K not hitting too well to start the year at .182
Pillar 2-5, 2B having a solid start to the year at .308
Hawkins 3-4, HR, BB
Sweeney 1-3, BB
Vega 1-5, K, 2 errors

Hawkins and Sweeney look great to start the year...and of course awesome games from Nicolino/Sanchez that were already mentioned

Dunedin
Marisnick 2-5, 2B, BB, K, SB great start to the year, NH needs him and he should be up there if he continues to perform
Knecht 2-4, 2 2B (4 RBI), 1 BB very all or nothing start to the year, getting big hits, walks, and Ks
Crouse 1-4, BB, K, SB bit of a rough start to the year at .125

Sam Dyson had a very nice first start 6 IP, 6 H, 0 BB, 4 runs 3 earned, 4 K...all earned runs came on a home run

New Hampshire
Jimenez 0-4, BB
McDade 2-4, K
Justin Jackson 3-4, 2B, 3B,

This just in: Cecil sucks (11 hits in 6.2 innings, 4 ER, 0 BB and 7 K)
Evan Crawford had a nice inning and a third

Las Vegas (unfortunately I didn't get a chance to watch the game tonight - for some off-hand scouting reports on Gose/Hech/TdA/Sierra - check back a few pages)
Gose 1-5, K
Hech 2-4, K, SB
Snider 1-4, 2B, K
d'Arnaud 0-4 he looks real rough at the plate to start the year and I thought the same thing watching him for 2 games. A lot of movement while he's setting up to swing and he's just not making solid contact. He's looked good behind the plate though.
Sierra 1-4, HR, K he is going to rip it up in LV this year. Perfect environment for a hitter like him, he's going to be very highly regarded in a few months IMO. Saying it for the third time in this thread - his swing looks a lot like EE.

This just in: Scott Richmond sucks. So does the rest of the LV pitching staff. I mean, they are just awful. It's unfortunate because the team has a lot of potential with that lineup, but they are not going to win many games throwing Richmond, Sanchez, Bill Murphy(?), etc. out there. Only good pitcher I've seen on that squad thus far has been Igarashi.

Sanyo
04-10-2012, 02:26 PM
I can see Crawford taking over Oliver next year -- he really deserves a shot with the Jays. Also Danny Barnes as well who's continuing where he left off last year and pitching fantastic. He's still in Single A so about two years away but would love to see him up for the Jays in the bullpen as well.

StealingSigns
04-10-2012, 05:29 PM
I wonder how many weeks of Thames struggling would it take to see Snider recalled? I would say near the end of april, if hes still struggling he gets send down. Some people say his defense has improved, which does not seem true as Farrell continues to substitute Davis late in the games for his defense

I'm not seeing the improvement. He is awful...

Farsight
04-10-2012, 06:20 PM
I'm not seeing the improvement. He is awful... Yeah, that is why i made mention of Farrell constantly subbing him late in the games for Davis

T.O.Bombinators
04-10-2012, 07:54 PM
my buddy last night said thames was a better fielding than snider, i was flabbergasted to say the least

ah nuts
04-10-2012, 09:29 PM
my buddy last night said thames was a better fielding than snider, i was flabbergasted to say the least

was he drunk?

... thames just allowed a double - terrible path to the ball and didn't run hard enough(due to mis judging)

Dol-Fan
04-10-2012, 10:15 PM
Hutch 6 IP 8 H 0 R 1 BB 0 K(?)

Marisnick 0-5

Knecht 1-3, 2B, BB

Sweeney and Hawkins each moved up a spot in the lineup, both went 1-4

Dol-Fan
04-10-2012, 10:22 PM
Weird - Gose is now 0/3 on steals this year.

ChongInc.
04-10-2012, 11:14 PM
My favorite thread is back in full swing :)

Dol-Fan
04-10-2012, 11:31 PM
TdA solid LD base hit to left

Sanyo
04-10-2012, 11:32 PM
Hutch another solid outing: 6 innings, 8 hits, 0 earned runs. 1 walk but no strikeouts.

Dol-Fan
04-11-2012, 12:15 AM
Hutch another solid outing: 6 innings, 8 hits, 0 earned runs. 1 walk but no strikeouts.

Posted it with a few other updates from the FSL and MWL in the last post on the last page :)

Hech has really impressed me in the few games I've watched. Has another 2 nice base hits tonight, scored on a Snider double. Makes nice contact, has a nice consistent swing. As good as advertised defensively, as well.

Gose is definitely a few years away still. He's got all the tools...tons of speed, great D, can take a walk and makes nice contact from time to time, but his swing is wildly inconsistent and his pitch recognition is not so hot. Really hope that improves because he could be a beast.

Dol-Fan
04-11-2012, 12:23 AM
Decent GB base hit for Gose. LD triple for Hech. Another beautifully hit ball.

nevermind, it was a well-hit ball for Gose, but they changed it to an error.

Dol-Fan
04-11-2012, 12:25 AM
Snider flies out to the deepest part of the park to end the inning. Well hit ball again for Snider.

bomber0104
04-11-2012, 12:27 AM
Man look at that Sacramento offense

Mitchell, Grant Green (top prospect), Chris Carter, Brandon Moss (former Sox), Taylor (former Jay), Derrek Norris (top C prospect), Parker, Hicks, Rosales (A's player)

the whole team is batting .400

Dol-Fan
04-11-2012, 12:43 AM
Man look at that Sacramento offense

Mitchell, Grant Green (top prospect), Chris Carter, Brandon Moss (former Sox), Taylor (former Jay), Derrek Norris (top C prospect), Parker, Hicks, Rosales (A's player)

the whole team is batting .400

They had Barton too when they were playing the 51s

TdA solid liner to the gap in left-centre. Much better game today after a rough few games.

phillipmike
04-11-2012, 01:51 AM
AA said that Anthony Gose (a former pitcher) said that Evan Crawford is has the best arm in the Jays system.

AA says he can be a good longterm piece that could be a great arm in the pen.

StealingSigns
04-11-2012, 02:07 AM
Yeah, that is why i made mention of Farrell constantly subbing him late in the games for Davis

haha sorry if that came out the wrong way, I was in agreement with your post

Toxeryll
04-11-2012, 02:38 AM
man our Triple A rotation sucks.. i miss Brad Mills

Iggy
04-11-2012, 09:42 AM
Anyone know much about Jesse Hernandez ... went 7 IP, 1 hit, 8 SO for Lansing

Sanyo
04-11-2012, 12:14 PM
I think everyday how close the Jays were in getting Shelby Miller (#19) over Chad Jenkins (#20) in the 2009 Draft and how AA went with Wojo (#41) over Taijuan Walker (#43) in the 2010 Draft and how we could have received Alex Meyer (#23) or Taylor Guerrerti (#24) over Tyler Beede (#21) in last year's draft.

Just to think how close the Jays were to getting Walker, Miller and Guerrerti over Wojo and Jenkins and not signing Beede... ahhh. The Jays still have a stacked system but damn that by would far be the #1 system in the MLB ... by far not even close...

Shelby Miller, Taijuan Walker , Noah Syndergaard, Henderson Alvarez and Taylor Guerrerti in 2015 ---- oh myyy...

Dol-Fan
04-11-2012, 03:01 PM
John Stilson, Anthony DeSclafani, and I'm guessing Noah Syndergaard are all going today. Noah will likely pitch since last time he started, DeSclafani came in after. Today they are likely switching roles.

rapsjaysfan88
04-11-2012, 05:36 PM
wow hech is crushing the ball so far. man if he can hit holy crap does his value increase :)

Toxeryll
04-11-2012, 07:23 PM
Stilson throwing 94-95 mph in the first inning. had one strikeout

DeRozan10
04-11-2012, 07:46 PM
I think everyday how close the Jays were in getting Shelby Miller (#19) over Chad Jenkins (#20) in the 2009 Draft and how AA went with Wojo (#41) over Taijuan Walker (#43) in the 2010 Draft and how we could have received Alex Meyer (#23) or Taylor Guerrerti (#24) over Tyler Beede (#21) in last year's draft.

Just to think how close the Jays were to getting Walker, Miller and Guerrerti over Wojo and Jenkins and not signing Beede... ahhh. The Jays still have a stacked system but damn that by would far be the #1 system in the MLB ... by far not even close...

Shelby Miller, Taijuan Walker , Noah Syndergaard, Henderson Alvarez and Taylor Guerrerti in 2015 ---- oh myyy...

Don't be greedy bro!! It's the name of the game.

Just be thankful this organization is loaded with young ,high ceiling talent from the Majors down.

Abdul Mutalib
04-11-2012, 08:03 PM
I think everyday how close the Jays were in getting Shelby Miller (#19) over Chad Jenkins (#20) in the 2009 Draft and how AA went with Wojo (#41) over Taijuan Walker (#43) in the 2010 Draft and how we could have received Alex Meyer (#23) or Taylor Guerrerti (#24) over Tyler Beede (#21) in last year's draft.

Just to think how close the Jays were to getting Walker, Miller and Guerrerti over Wojo and Jenkins and not signing Beede... ahhh. The Jays still have a stacked system but damn that by would far be the #1 system in the MLB ... by far not even close...

Shelby Miller, Taijuan Walker , Noah Syndergaard, Henderson Alvarez and Taylor Guerrerti in 2015 ---- oh myyy...
say word, word do u guys get info/news on these prospects anywayz? lol im @ best a casual fan hopped on the jays bandwagon in 09' when i saw the bleek and shallow future of the raptors...

Sanyo
04-11-2012, 08:09 PM
Don't be greedy bro!! It's the name of the game.

Just be thankful this organization is loaded with young ,high ceiling talent from the Majors down.

not greedy, just sayin' how close the stars were to being aligned for the Jays to get those top pitching prospects, it was within one or two slots, its crazy.

Im very happy with what the Jays have with the likes of Sanchez, Norris, Nicolino and Hutchison coming through.

jaysforever
04-11-2012, 08:21 PM
I think everyday how close the Jays were in getting Shelby Miller (#19) over Chad Jenkins (#20) in the 2009 Draft and how AA went with Wojo (#41) over Taijuan Walker (#43) in the 2010 Draft and how we could have received Alex Meyer (#23) or Taylor Guerrerti (#24) over Tyler Beede (#21) in last year's draft.


2/3 of this post i've often thought of as well. Don't agonize over the Shelby Miller portion because he was off the board anyways, so you can drive yourself crazy if you think like this! A better example from that draft was Mike Trout at #25, but most clubs missed on him and 'outscouting' other teams on high school kids was not a strength of the Riccardi staff so this was never going to happen...so overall, Jenkins was probably the best we were going to do.

In 2011 i wanted Guerreri or Norris with the first pick. We got lucky and picked up Norris in the second round, and i don't blame them for trying on Beede. Plus, we'll get a good pick at #22 this year as compensation for not signing Beede...and who knows, maybe better than Guerreri anyways!

That being said, the Walker miss is the killer for me. The pre-draft scouting report on him was excellent...big power pitcher, 2 sport star (basketball), good makeup etc..he was your prototypical jays prospect. My best guess is they had him ranked higher than Wojo, but wanted to mitigate the risks of the prior high cieling, high risk HS picks they had made (Sanchez, Synd), but this is just speculation....or else it was just a miss. I'd love to know what happened though.

StealingSigns
04-11-2012, 09:18 PM
I'm positive lots of other teams fans are doing the "what if" questions re. their prospective GM being able to draft one of our prospects at their draft slot.

DeRozan10
04-11-2012, 09:32 PM
Ya its so pointless to play the what if with prospects.

We have what we have. And the most important thing right now is the 2012 Toronto Blue Jays

DeRozan10
04-11-2012, 10:55 PM
not greedy, just sayin' how close the stars were to being aligned for the Jays to get those top pitching prospects, it was within one or two slots, its crazy.

Im very happy with what the Jays have with the likes of Sanchez, Norris, Nicolino and Hutchison coming through.

What if 1 of the other 29 teams decided to take Syndergaard before we did?

DeRozan10
04-11-2012, 10:59 PM
Snider and Cooper both 2 for 2 so far tonight

DeRozan10
04-11-2012, 11:00 PM
Evan Crawford - 1 perfect inning, 3 k's

DeRozan10
04-11-2012, 11:00 PM
Syndergaard and DeSclafani both pitched well again tonight.

DeRozan10
04-11-2012, 11:01 PM
John Stilson

4 IP, 1H, 0ER, 4K

StealingSigns
04-11-2012, 11:03 PM
nvm...

bomber0104
04-11-2012, 11:18 PM
From Keith Law's twitter on Stilson


keithlaw ‏ @keithlaw

As a reliever? Sure. "@AndyMc9293: @keithlaw Should I, as a Jays fan, be excited about John Stilson?"

Reliever is what i'm leaning to as well but if he can somehow continue to be effective as a starter, he will be a major steal.

2 GS, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 3BB, 7 K

is his line so far through 2 starts

bomber0104
04-11-2012, 11:25 PM
Notes from Lansing

Descalfani started the game
3 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 3 Ks

Here is a tweet from a random person

106 and Ballparks ‏ @BackInBlueBalls

I was really impressed with DeScalfani last night, moreso than Syndergaard. Anthony has way better command of FB, Noah was just throwing.

Syndergaard followed
3 IP, 2 H, 1 R (on his error), 2 BB, 2 K


Lansing Lugnuts ‏ @LansingLugnuts

Noah Syndergaard's night 3 IP 2 H 2 K 1 R 0 ER 1 throwing error. FB sat mid-90's. Used CB sparingly but it looked very good w/ 12-6 action

Kellen Sweeney 2-4 (.333), 2 R, RBI
Hawkins 1-3 (.333), BB, 2 R, 2 RBI
Carlos Perez 1-5 (.200)

Lansing sweep again to move to 6-0 for the season.. only way they dont win is if all the pitchers move on to Dunedin and even NH

Dol-Fan
04-11-2012, 11:35 PM
Thanks man ^^ I was thinking about compiling something but I'll just make some updates on the LV game I'm watching again

Hech is a machine right now. Real nice swing, consistent action, just gets line drive after line drive. He makes very nice contact.

Snider has been good for the most part tonight, but just had a really ugly K on a breaking pitch. One of his little wave swings at a breaking ball low and away. Yuck.

TdA just had a solid LD base hit to centre to drive in a run

DeRozan10
04-11-2012, 11:41 PM
Thanks man ^^ I was thinking about compiling something but I'll just make some updates on the LV game I'm watching again

Hech is a machine right now. Real nice swing, consistent action, just gets line drive after line drive. He makes very nice contact.

Snider has been good for the most part tonight, but just had a really ugly K on a breaking pitch. One of his little wave swings at a breaking ball low and away. Yuck.

TdA just had a solid LD base hit to centre to drive in a run


Regarding Hech ....

Line drives are great news. Can't say its the AAA ballparks thats allowing him to hit the ball hard

StealingSigns
04-11-2012, 11:42 PM
I have to admit, I have always been skeptical of Hech. If his swing holds out, though... watch out.

Sanyo
04-12-2012, 12:28 AM
The only reason Hech is not up here is cause of his bat -- if that is coming through he becomes one of the best ss in the game!

Its just weird to see the Jays Triple A team in Vegas, I hope they go to Buffalo who is looking to boot the Mets after this year -- would be such a perfect match!!

Dol-Fan
04-12-2012, 12:38 AM
And there we go, Hech with ANOTHER solid base hit. He's making great contact, and really squaring it up, with every hit going somewhere between left-centre and right-centre. Sent Gose (who had just taken a walk - nice eye for this kid) from first to third on the base hit. Snider then took a walk. TdA swinging for the fences (and you can definitely see the power in his swing) but doesn't appear to have his timing down yet. Cooper with a 2 run double.

StealingSigns
04-12-2012, 12:50 AM
And there we go, Hech with ANOTHER solid base hit. He's making great contact, and really squaring it up, with every hit going somewhere between left-centre and right-centre. Sent Gose (who had just taken a walk - nice eye for this kid) from first to third on the base hit. Snider then took a walk. TdA swinging for the fences (and you can definitely see the power in his swing) but doesn't appear to have his timing down yet. Cooper with a 2 run double.

Thanks for the updates. :clap:

Sanyo
04-12-2012, 01:07 AM
Hech, Snider and Cooper are all hitting over .400 so far this season. Cooper if he keeps it up has to be traded for something, kinda a waste for this guy to be there. Snider needs his shot at the MLB, its ridiculous he's in Triple A, though understandable at this point. Hech will also have a hard time right now with Escobar and Johnson strong at their respective positions right now...

Toxeryll
04-12-2012, 01:18 AM
I hope they tell Hech to see more pitches and increase his walks just like they did with Lawrie.

bartron_44
04-12-2012, 07:57 AM
^^If Hech keeps hitting over .400, I don't think I want them to change a thing...

I am very interested to see what the Jays do with Stilson. He has been outstanding his first 2 appearances in Dunedin. Has anybody heard what his fastball is looking like?
I think he will end up being the first promotion from Dunedin when someone from NH moves on. It could also be Sean Nolin, but I think Stilson will be a fast riser if he is actually fully recovered.

Michael Crouse had a solid game last night. 2-4 with his a SB in his 4th straight game. Good to see his bat coming around.

ILDD
04-12-2012, 08:38 AM
AA's strategy is really paying off. Targetting and then acquiring "up-the-middle" prospects gives us TdA, Hech and Gose who are all incredibly valuable players.

If all those pan out it gives AA surplus players in JPA, Escobar and maybe Rasmus who can be traded for an absolue star player, maybe the Ace that we need.

JMac4PM
04-12-2012, 08:40 AM
our AAA pitching staff is scary bad.... when is Litsch gonna be back? He'll prolly be goin to LV.

bartron_44
04-12-2012, 11:05 AM
Should we be giving more attention to Kevin Pillar? I realize he is a bit old for the league, but the guy already has 4 SB's over his first 6 games, and is hitting 3rd in the order for Lansing. He played mostly CF and hit for an OPS of .911 in Bluefield last year with a .347 batting average..


Also, what about Kevin Patterson? He is even older then Pillar, but he has produced everywhere we have placed him so far over the past 12 months..He had 23 extra base hits (10 Hr's) in only 169 AB's last year. He is a 6'4 power hitting first baseman who actually had a monster year his junior season of college with 16 HR's and a .782 SLG%, but then didn't sign when TB took him in the 23rd round. His senior year at Auburn was good, but not quite as good, and he slipped to the 30th round when we took him in 2011.


I think those bats should both always be in the lineup.

Sanyo
04-12-2012, 11:19 AM
our AAA pitching staff is scary bad.... when is Litsch gonna be back? He'll prolly be goin to LV.

Triple A is pretty much a write off for the Jays until they find a new home. They arent sending their best and brightest (atleast pitching wise) there. Even hitting wise its hard to gauge but its still fine.

And Litsch is suppose to be back in May.

Sanyo
04-12-2012, 11:22 AM
Should we be giving more attention to Kevin Pillar? I realize he is a bit old for the league, but the guy already has 4 SB's over his first 6 games, and is hitting 3rd in the order for Lansing. He played mostly CF and hit for an OPS of .911 in Bluefield last year with a .347 batting average..


Also, what about Kevin Patterson? He is even older then Pillar, but he has produced everywhere we have placed him so far over the past 12 months..He had 23 extra base hits (10 Hr's) in only 169 AB's last year. He is a 6'4 power hitting first baseman who actually had a monster year his junior season of college with 16 HR's and a .782 SLG%, but then didn't sign when TB took him in the 23rd round. His senior year at Auburn was good, but not quite as good, and he slipped to the 30th round when we took him in 2011.


I think those bats should both always be in the lineup.

Both guys may just become career minor leaguers, both are 23, 24 now in Mid A. Unless they really rapidly progress, its going to be hard to get a shot but nothing is impossible and still have to look at production. However, they are not priorities, especially Pillar since the Jays have other guys who are 2-3 years younger with higher upside in the outfield.

If they want, they could try moving these guys more rapidly up the system but at the same time they like to move up guys mid-season that they see have a future with the Major League club and develop those guys more rapidly than others. Just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes, but I dont deny their success either.

bomber0104
04-12-2012, 12:55 PM
^^If Hech keeps hitting over .400, I don't think I want them to change a thing...

I am very interested to see what the Jays do with Stilson. He has been outstanding his first 2 appearances in Dunedin. Has anybody heard what his fastball is looking like?
I think he will end up being the first promotion from Dunedin when someone from NH moves on. It could also be Sean Nolin, but I think Stilson will be a fast riser if he is actually fully recovered.

Michael Crouse had a solid game last night. 2-4 with his a SB in his 4th straight game. Good to see his bat coming around.

i think 93-95

Dol-Fan
04-12-2012, 12:59 PM
Thanks for the updates. :clap:

Not a problem. I'm really glad to be able to watch the LV games and keep everyone else updated. I was a real skeptic about Hech's recent hitting surge, but the Vegas conditions are playing no part in his beast mode.

ah nuts
04-12-2012, 01:22 PM
if hech keeps hitting like this, the jays will have to promote him to AA. : I
man, LV is such a waste of time.

Twitchy
04-12-2012, 02:03 PM
Don't know if this (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16441) was posted but it talks about a couple of our top prospects. Basically a best case scenario, and a most likely scenario.

DeRozan10
04-12-2012, 04:39 PM
Found this vid of Hech from last year

Check out the range

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UopYGbtFGVs

lexecutioner
04-12-2012, 06:12 PM
Found this vid of Hech from last year

Check out the range

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UopYGbtFGVs

wow :clap:

jaysforever
04-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Wow....Sean Nolin tonight pitching for Dunedin...5.2 innings with 11 SO's. This is a big kid at 6'5", 235 lbs, and a lefty! Still only 22, and an AA draftpic in 2010 from Junior college.

DeRozan10
04-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Wow....Sean Nolin tonight pitching for Dunedin...5.2 innings with 11 SO's. This is a big kid at 6'5", 235 lbs, and a lefty! Still only 22, and an AA draftpic in 2010 from Junior college.

Gnarly. Could see him in AA at some point this year which means he'd be a step away from the Bigs

DeRozan10
04-12-2012, 08:17 PM
Jenkins got roughed up a bit tonight

jaysforever
04-12-2012, 08:21 PM
Here's Sean Nolin's scouting report from Jays Journal...they had him #32 but a great report on him!

http://jaysjournal.com/2012/03/24/jays-journal-top-50-blue-jays-prospects-no-32-sean-nolin/

jaysforever
04-12-2012, 08:33 PM
Jenkins got roughed up a bit tonight

Just when ya think he's starting to figure it out....he gets creamed!

JermanJaysFan
04-12-2012, 08:49 PM
Found this vid of Hech from last year

Check out the range

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UopYGbtFGVs

Nice work to get a glove on that ball, and a savvy play to go to third with it.

Krylian
04-12-2012, 09:00 PM
Just when ya think he's starting to figure it out....he gets creamed!

Some aren't that high on him.

Dol-Fan
04-12-2012, 09:07 PM
Wow....Sean Nolin tonight pitching for Dunedin...5.2 innings with 11 SO's. This is a big kid at 6'5", 235 lbs, and a lefty! Still only 22, and an AA draftpic in 2010 from Junior college.

Great game for him tonight.

Justin Jackson had another great game as well.

3-4, 2 2B, 2 SB avg up to .409...still no walks but 4/9 hits have gone for extra bases.

Toxeryll
04-12-2012, 09:42 PM
Is Chino Vega only a backup infielder now? He should be starting over Berti IMO.

JMac4PM
04-12-2012, 09:43 PM
man that would be awesome if Ahrens and Jackson could figure it out and have a good season.... we pretty much wrote them off but if they had a big season we could prolly trade em for something decent considering they were high draft picks. We'd be getting something for nothin considering we wrote em both off and aren't considering em a part of our future.

Toxeryll
04-12-2012, 09:48 PM
man that would be awesome if Ahrens and Jackson could figure it out and have a good season.... we pretty much wrote them off but if they had a big season we could prolly trade em for something decent considering they were high draft picks. We'd be getting something for nothin considering we wrote em both off and aren't considering em a part of our future.

I doubt we'll get something for them especially with Aherns still being in A ball. Jackson will be a utility man at best.

DeRozan10
04-12-2012, 10:27 PM
I doubt we'll get something for them especially with Aherns still being in A ball. Jackson will be a utility man at best.

A whole lotta people probably thought Jose Bautista was a utility man at best as well.

Toxeryll
04-12-2012, 10:48 PM
A whole lotta people probably thought Jose Bautista was a utility man at best as well.

i dont know why you brought that up. jose has had good numbers in the minors, i cant say the same for aherns or jackson.

bomber0104
04-13-2012, 12:03 AM
man that would be awesome if Ahrens and Jackson could figure it out and have a good season.... we pretty much wrote them off but if they had a big season we could prolly trade em for something decent considering they were high draft picks. We'd be getting something for nothin considering we wrote em both off and aren't considering em a part of our future.

i still have little hope for Jackson because he can play multiple positions and has shown solid patience.. Ahrens is a bust no question. the guy can't even play D at 3B

Sanyo
04-13-2012, 12:39 AM
Jays have so much talent, if Jackson and Ahrens actually did bloom now it would be a bonus -- but Jays have so much outfield talent in the minors and already have Lawrie at 3b who'll be the cornerstone of the Jays for maybe 10-15 years (he's the one guy Rogers will pay $20 mil/year to) so not having an immediate 3rd basemen is not too big of a concern.

es0terik
04-13-2012, 01:04 AM
i dont know why you brought that up. jose has had good numbers in the minors, i cant say the same for aherns or jackson.

You also can't say the same for Ricky Romero:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=romero001ric

He was god-awful in the minors, just absolutely horrible. Look where he is now.

JMac4PM
04-13-2012, 08:19 AM
I doubt we'll get something for them especially with Aherns still being in A ball. Jackson will be a utility man at best.

If jackson has a good year in AA coupled with the fact he is a high draft pik I'm sure our great GM could prolly get a half decent pitching prospect or something for him.

AA09-?
04-13-2012, 08:29 AM
If jackson has a good year in AA coupled with the fact he is a high draft pik I'm sure our great GM could prolly get a half decent pitching prospect or something for him.

IMO that's a stretch.

bartron_44
04-13-2012, 08:48 AM
Wow....Sean Nolin tonight pitching for Dunedin...5.2 innings with 11 SO's. This is a big kid at 6'5", 235 lbs, and a lefty! Still only 22, and an AA draftpic in 2010 from Junior college.

Not only did he strike out 11 of the 17 outs last night, but he also got 5 GB outs and only 1 fly out. Pretty darn dominating performance imo. I wonder if he is throwing harder this year. Last year he spent the off season losing weight (like Cecil did this year), I wonder if he spent this off season working on his arm speed and strength like Tiny Tim Collins did when he rose through our minor league ranks. He was supposed to be able to reach back and touch 93-94 last year, but most reports I have found say he normally pitches more in the 88-91 mph range during games..

any word on his velocity this year that you guys can find?

bartron_44
04-13-2012, 09:16 AM
Both guys may just become career minor leaguers, both are 23, 24 now in Mid A. Unless they really rapidly progress, its going to be hard to get a shot but nothing is impossible and still have to look at production. However, they are not priorities, especially Pillar since the Jays have other guys who are 2-3 years younger with higher upside in the outfield.

If they want, they could try moving these guys more rapidly up the system but at the same time they like to move up guys mid-season that they see have a future with the Major League club and develop those guys more rapidly than others. Just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes, but I dont deny their success either.

Actually, Patterson's birthday isn't until September 28th, so they are both playing this year as a 23 year old...that's not that old for guys who went to college.The league average in the MIDW is 22, and the league average in the FSL is 23.

I realize they both just got to Lansing this year, so they are currently a level behind schedule, but there is nothing really standing in Patterson's way from going to Dunedin this year if he performs well again. The incumbent 1st basemen there is only Jon Talley..and he hasn't exactly been a stud the last few seasons...

Pillar on the other hand, has a much tougher battle ahead of him... He would have had an easier path to the big leagues in most other systems. Having 3 guys like Marisnick, Knecht, Crouse, Glenn, Gose, Sierra, Snider and Thames ahead of you makes it tough to rise quickly through our ranks....He is off to a good start in Lansing though ...if he can maintain an OBP over .400 and keep stealing a shyte load of bases while hitting for the power he displayed last year (and in college), then his stock should rise pretty quickly.

Halladay
04-13-2012, 09:28 AM
You also can't say the same for Ricky Romero:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=romero001ric

He was god-awful in the minors, just absolutely horrible. Look where he is now.

Go back 5 or 6 years in this forum...you don't even wanna see the threads. There were maybe, maybe 3 or 4 of us who had faith in Romero.

ILDD
04-13-2012, 09:49 AM
Go back 5 or 6 years in this forum...you don't even wanna see the threads. There were maybe, maybe 3 or 4 of us who had faith in Romero.

And I wasn't one of them. As it turns out, professional baseball talent evaluators know more than I do - who knew?

Halladay
04-13-2012, 10:03 AM
And I wasn't one of them. As it turns out, professional baseball talent evaluators know more than I do - who knew?

The Romero threads weren't nearly as entertaining as the McGowan threads though. Some of the stuff people would say about McGowan was too damn funny. Like the guy too their mothers out for dinner and never called them again or something.

DeRozan10
04-13-2012, 12:03 PM
i dont know why you brought that up. jose has had good numbers in the minors, i cant say the same for aherns or jackson.

Because, no offence, but what do you really know about this kid? You've followed some internet stats and maybe seen a youtube vid or two and your gonna cap him as a bench player at best?

Too many fans do this ... Who know's how this kid will end up. He could have an incredible work ethic for all we know and one day a switch my turn for him.

I hope to hell he has solid big league career weather its with the Jays or another organization, but to cap him at a bench player just because you've seen some stats is wrong.

DeRozan10
04-13-2012, 12:04 PM
And I wasn't one of them. As it turns out, professional baseball talent evaluators know more than I do - who knew?

Lol THIS

Everyone on this forum thinks they know best about what a prospects ceiling is and how they should be handled through out the minors

lexecutioner
04-13-2012, 12:10 PM
Wheres DoL-Fan? i want updates :) lol.

JaysFan87
04-13-2012, 12:20 PM
Because, no offence, but what do you really know about this kid? You've followed some internet stats and maybe seen a youtube vid or two and your gonna cap him as a bench player at best?

Too many fans do this ... Who know's how this kid will end up. He could have an incredible work ethic for all we know and one day a switch my turn for him.

I hope to hell he has solid big league career weather its with the Jays or another organization, but to cap him at a bench player just because you've seen some stats is wrong.

Granted that no one knows any professional player personally so any remarks about them personally should be taken as a guess. However, (and i cant speak for all) you definitely look at minor league stats as a barometer to see how they are progressing (if they are). Its not teh be all and end all og course becasue you have to take in account age, level, and injury. Thats when you look at talent evaluators reports who have seen them in person. You add those reports to the stats and you have a pretty good source of information to make a judgement on. Ahrens has looked terrible by all accounts and the stats indicate that as well. Where as Jackson has received some good reports regarding his defense and they fact he plays a premium position (CF/SS) makes him more likely to rise than a light hitting 3B.

Iggy
04-13-2012, 12:24 PM
Just read an article in the Blue Jays Journal where the writer felt Norris was the Jays' #1 pitching prospect and should be in Lansing's rotation ... an interesting article

http://jaysjournal.com/2012/04/13/lansing-lugnuts-rotation/

Toxeryll
04-13-2012, 01:34 PM
Because, no offence, but what do you really know about this kid? You've followed some internet stats and maybe seen a youtube vid or two and your gonna cap him as a bench player at best?

Too many fans do this ... Who know's how this kid will end up. He could have an incredible work ethic for all we know and one day a switch my turn for him.

I hope to hell he has solid big league career weather its with the Jays or another organization, but to cap him at a bench player just because you've seen some stats is wrong.

well obviously you have to look at the stats theyre putting up and scouting reports by the "experts" to see how they project in the bigs. these projections are subjective so you dont have to believe what everyone says. so far in aherns and jackson's minor league career, its not reasonable to expect them to be more than bench players since players with no success in the minors will not likely have a good big league career.. as a Jays fan like you, i want them to have good seasons and make it to the bigs but i just dont see it happening.

jaysforever
04-13-2012, 01:40 PM
Not only did he strike out 11 of the 17 outs last night, but he also got 5 GB outs and only 1 fly out. Pretty darn dominating performance imo. I wonder if he is throwing harder this year. Last year he spent the off season losing weight (like Cecil did this year), I wonder if he spent this off season working on his arm speed and strength like Tiny Tim Collins did when he rose through our minor league ranks. He was supposed to be able to reach back and touch 93-94 last year, but most reports I have found say he normally pitches more in the 88-91 mph range during games..

any word on his velocity this year that you guys can find?

I think we're just going to have to be patient and follow him going forward. Could be 100 reasons why he's doing so well, and why he had such a good game. But he was a 6th round pick so you know they thought a lot of his potential. The Jays journal report had his ceiling as a 5th starter but i would discount that. They didn't draft a guy in the 6th round with a ceiling of a 5th starter!!

Whether his velocity has popped, or he's developed a new pitch...who knows. Maybe he hung around Nicolino all spring and picked his brain on how to work the plate! Let's see if he can keep it up.

JMac4PM
04-13-2012, 02:15 PM
Just read an article in the Blue Jays Journal where the writer felt Norris was the Jays' #1 pitching prospect and should be in Lansing's rotation ... an interesting article

http://jaysjournal.com/2012/04/13/lansing-lugnuts-rotation/

I don't agree with this writer... Jays have the luxury of a deep minor league pitching staff so we are able to bring up pitching prospects more slowly. Nobody has ever been hurt by being brought up too slowly... its good for a prospect to stay at a level and dominate for awhile.

2009mvp
04-13-2012, 03:40 PM
Granted that no one knows any professional player personally so any remarks about them personally should be taken as a

guess. However, (and i cant speak for all) you definitely look at minor league stats as a barometer to see how they are progressing (if they are). Its not teh be all and end all og course becasue you have to take in account age, level, and injury. Thats when you look at talent evaluators reports who have seen them in person. You add those reports to the stats and you have a pretty good source of information to make a judgement on. Ahrens has looked terrible by all accounts and the stats indicate that as well. Where as Jackson has received some good reports regarding his defense and they fact he plays a premium position (CF/SS) makes him more likely to rise than a light hitting 3B.

And some will tell you scouting is all that matters, making all that moot. I mean, it's nice to see skills translate into stats but it's more than possible to produce the stats without necessarily having the skills in the minor leagues. Just a ton of variables that so few actually consider. To each his own, but personally I think analyzing these stats (or at least the stats of the lesser known guys, the ones at the top of the prospect lists we know have the skills) is for the most part fool's gold.

bartron_44
04-13-2012, 03:44 PM
I don't agree with this writer... Jays have the luxury of a deep minor league pitching staff so we are able to bring up pitching prospects more slowly. Nobody has ever been hurt by being brought up too slowly... its good for a prospect to stay at a level and dominate for awhile.

I actual agree with the writers points, as I would have love to see that rotation together...but just because he starts the season in short season doesn't mean he won't be on the Lugnuts playoff roster at the end of the season and finish with more then 68 total innings this year.

However, they may not want to let him throw too many innings at such a young age too. no need to push him too hard and get him hurt.

I would have liked for the writer to justify his comment on Norris being the best pitching prospect we have though. He didn't really back up that statement with anything at all...

Dol-Fan
04-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Wheres DoL-Fan? i want updates :) lol.

Couldn't watch the Vegas game last night due to papers, unfortunately...here's a brief recap of the farm last night (not sure if any of this has already been posted, but here goes)

LV
Gose 0-4, BB, stole 2 bases and got on base on one or two errors.
Hech 0-4, BB (weird to see him slow down, I'm sure he still hit the ball hard)
Snider 1-5, HR
TdA 2-5

NH
as I mentioned, Justin Jackson had a sick game 3-3, 2 2B or something like that
Jenkins 7 IP, 5 H, 5 ER, 1 BB, 7 K...3 HR allowed and 9:6 GO:FO

Dunedin
Marisnick 1-4, 3B
Knecht 0-4, 2 K
Crouse had the night off
Sean Nolin had an awesome night as mentioned earlier

Lansing
Berti 2-3, 2B, BB
Hawkins and Sweeney both 1-4

of note: Carreno, McGuire, Wojo all go tonight

JaysFan87
04-13-2012, 04:42 PM
And some will tell you scouting is all that matters, making all that moot. I mean, it's nice to see skills translate into stats but it's more than possible to produce the stats without necessarily having the skills in the minor leagues. Just a ton of variables that so few actually consider. To each his own, but personally I think analyzing these stats (or at least the stats of the lesser known guys, the ones at the top of the prospect lists we know have the skills) is for the most part fool's gold.

Agreed. Scouting of the player is far more important that the stats they accumulate. Often the lower quality of play in the minor leagues artificial inflates the stats of players who would be ordinary in a different setting.

town123
04-13-2012, 07:24 PM
I think we're just going to have to be patient and follow him going forward. Could be 100 reasons why he's doing so well, and why he had such a good game. But he was a 6th round pick so you know they thought a lot of his potential. The Jays journal report had his ceiling as a 5th starter but i would discount that. They didn't draft a guy in the 6th round with a ceiling of a 5th starter!!

Whether his velocity has popped, or he's developed a new pitch...who knows. Maybe he hung around Nicolino all spring and picked his brain on how to work the plate! Let's see if he can keep it up.

You guys read my good raves about Nolin and Barnes last year. No surprise here.

Krylian
04-13-2012, 11:06 PM
Vegas game in progress (leading 14-0).

Carreno with an excellent start for Vegas. 5ip, 1h, 2bb, 8k's.

Gose 2-4, 2B, 2 RBI.
Snider 4-5, 2b, hr, 5 RBI.
Hechavarria 2-5, RBI.
D'Arnaud 2-3, 2 2b, RBI, 2BB.

Krylian
04-13-2012, 11:11 PM
In New Hampshire's 6-1 loss...

McGuire with a mediocre start...5 IP, 7 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 5 K.
Not much to speak of with the bats.

Krylian
04-13-2012, 11:16 PM
Dunedin wins 4-1...

Woj with a strong 2nd start...6 IP, 2 H, R, ER, BB, 4 K.
Marisnick 1-5. Only .242 to start the year.
Knecht 1-3, 2 RBI. Only .200 to start the year but has 11 RBI in 8 games.

Krylian
04-13-2012, 11:19 PM
Lansing drop their first game, 5-4.?.

None of the prime arms went tonight.

Perez 3-5, 2B, 3B.
Pillar 3-5, 2B, RBI, SB.
Hawkins 2-4, 3B.

Toxeryll
04-13-2012, 11:53 PM
I really like Hawkins but with a set outfield in Dunedin, i wonder if theyre just gonna leave him in Lansing for the whole year. I hope he gets a promotion though and they can promote Marisnick to AA.

Im worried about Deck, thats two straight bad outings for him.

Farsight
04-14-2012, 02:03 AM
Vegas game in progress (leading 14-0).

Carreno with an excellent start for Vegas. 5ip, 1h, 2bb, 8k's.

Gose 2-4, 2B, 2 RBI.
Snider 4-5, 2b, hr, 5 RBI.
Hechavarria 2-5, RBI.
D'Arnaud 2-3, 2 2b, RBI, 2BB. Snider really needs to come up sooner or later. Its so redundant to see him kill the minors.

jaysforever
04-14-2012, 08:44 AM
Snider really needs to come up sooner or later. Its so redundant to see him kill the minors.

I doubt we'll see him though. He'll either be traded, or stay in AAA most of the year. Recall that he's out of options so if they rush him back up and he struggles again, he'll have zero trade value AND they can't send him back down. Poooof goes the value!

It's best to trade him while he's hot down there if you can get something good back or keep him down all year and let him rake in big numbers. Then they've got something of value.

ILDD
04-14-2012, 09:56 AM
I doubt we'll see him though. He'll either be traded, or stay in AAA most of the year. Recall that he's out of options so if they rush him back up and he struggles again, he'll have zero trade value AND they can't send him back down. Poooof goes the value!

It's best to trade him while he's hot down there if you can get something good back or keep him down all year and let him rake in big numbers. Then they've got something of value.

I think we could see him in Toronto but it needs a pretty specific set of circumstances

Snider has to continue having good AB's and getting good results, Thames has to be playing poorly for about 6-8 weeks (or get a long-term injury) and Francisco and Davis have to show that they're not good enough for a stop-gap measure.

I'd love to see him because I'm always a massive fan of higher ceilings over higher floors and I see Snider as a potential star whereas Thames is a very good 4th outfielder IMHO. The chance of Snider actually becoming a star might not be great but I take a long time to give up on a player.

HotBalls
04-14-2012, 10:02 AM
I doubt we'll see him though. He'll either be traded, or stay in AAA most of the year. Recall that he's out of options so if they rush him back up and he struggles again, he'll have zero trade value AND they can't send him back down. Poooof goes the value!

It's best to trade him while he's hot down there if you can get something good back or keep him down all year and let him rake in big numbers. Then they've got something of value.

The Jays had no problem demoting Snider last year to Vegas after just one month of poor hitting. Thames' has opened the season struggling almost exactly the same as Snider was last year, if not worse.... begs the question, do they keep Thames on the same short leash & demote Thames like they did Snider? Or give Thames all the time in the world to work his way out of it?

Krylian
04-14-2012, 10:46 AM
The Jays had no problem demoting Snider last year to Vegas after just one month of poor hitting. Thames' has opened the season struggling almost exactly the same as Snider was last year, if not worse.... begs the question, do they keep Thames on the same short leash & demote Thames like they did Snider? Or give Thames all the time in the world to work his way out of it?

It's a racial thing.

ILDD
04-14-2012, 10:54 AM
The Jays had no problem demoting Snider last year to Vegas after just one month of poor hitting. Thames' has opened the season struggling almost exactly the same as Snider was last year, if not worse.... begs the question, do they keep Thames on the same short leash & demote Thames like they did Snider? Or give Thames all the time in the world to work his way out of it?

They give Thames longer.

Last year Snider goes down, Thames comes up. If Thames sucked badly they could reverse the decision no problem. This year, when Snider comes up he can't go back down so there's more riding on it. Management need to be certain there making the right choice before they do it so they'll take more time.

Krylian
04-14-2012, 11:12 AM
They give Thames longer.

Last year Snider goes down, Thames comes up. If Thames sucked badly they could reverse the decision no problem. This year, when Snider comes up he can't go back down so there's more riding on it. Management need to be certain there making the right choice before they do it so they'll take more time.

In the words of Brian Burke, 'Snider is the real deal.'

Krylian
04-14-2012, 11:16 AM
Sanchez and Nicolino tandem start for Lansing this afternoon.
Dyson gets the start for Dunedin tonight.
Cecil for New Hampshire
Richmond for Vegas.

A big "who cares" for the last two.

DeRozan10
04-14-2012, 11:47 AM
Snider really needs to come up sooner or later. Its so redundant to see him kill the minors.

Not exactly ... He's not in AAA to see if he can hit. We know he can hit. He is there to work on his mechanics and stay consistent with them. We've seen it a few times where he goes down to the minors and finds good mechanics then comes back to the big leagues and goes back to his same old patterns.

He needs to stay down and keep working on an consistent swing.

lexecutioner
04-14-2012, 11:50 AM
Couldn't watch the Vegas game last night due to papers, unfortunately...here's a brief recap of the farm last night (not sure if any of this has already been posted, but here goes)

LV
Gose 0-4, BB, stole 2 bases and got on base on one or two errors.
Hech 0-4, BB (weird to see him slow down, I'm sure he still hit the ball hard)
Snider 1-5, HR
TdA 2-5

NH
as I mentioned, Justin Jackson had a sick game 3-3, 2 2B or something like that
Jenkins 7 IP, 5 H, 5 ER, 1 BB, 7 K...3 HR allowed and 9:6 GO:FO

Dunedin
Marisnick 1-4, 3B
Knecht 0-4, 2 K
Crouse had the night off
Sean Nolin had an awesome night as mentioned earlier

Lansing
Berti 2-3, 2B, BB
Hawkins and Sweeney both 1-4

of note: Carreno, McGuire, Wojo all go tonight

always appreciate this bro :hi5:

Twitchy
04-14-2012, 12:51 PM
I doubt we'll see him though. He'll either be traded, or stay in AAA most of the year. Recall that he's out of options so if they rush him back up and he struggles again, he'll have zero trade value AND they can't send him back down. Poooof goes the value!

It's best to trade him while he's hot down there if you can get something good back or keep him down all year and let him rake in big numbers. Then they've got something of value.

That's not how the option works. They can send him up or down as many times as they want this year. Burning the option is for the year. It's just next year he has to be in the majors or pass through waivers to get to AAA.

jaysforever
04-14-2012, 02:09 PM
That's not how the option works. They can send him up or down as many times as they want this year. Burning the option is for the year. It's just next year he has to be in the majors or pass through waivers to get to AAA.

Yeah...i think you're right about this. I still don't think we'll see Snider anytime soon as it makes sense now to see what Thames can do, but thanks for the clarification.

jaysforever
04-14-2012, 02:11 PM
BA has their first Hot Sheet up. No jays but lots of well know prospects on this list.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2012/2613259.html

DeRozan10
04-14-2012, 02:25 PM
Cecil roughed up again

DeRozan10
04-14-2012, 02:25 PM
Sanchez another 3 scoreless innings

Toxeryll
04-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Cecil roughed up again

4 errors in 1 inning also didnt help. they should send this guy to A ball, lol

bomber0104
04-14-2012, 02:45 PM
BA has their first Hot Sheet up. No jays but lots of well know prospects on this list.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2012/2613259.html

Fernandez is a guy i loved this past draft.. too bad he went way earlier than expected at 14

Kenny Powders
04-14-2012, 02:50 PM
Yeah...i think you're right about this. I still don't think we'll see Snider anytime soon as it makes sense now to see what Thames can do, but thanks for the clarification.

Thames is what he is. A 4th outfielder with some pop and horrible defence. I would much rather see Snider, rather then Thames, work out his kinks up here.

purplehaze89
04-14-2012, 07:07 PM
I knew this idiot was going to hit into a double play.

Arencibia may be the worst Jay in the history of Toronto baseball.

ILDD
04-14-2012, 07:49 PM
I knew this idiot was going to hit into a double play.

Arencibia may be the worst Jay in the history of Toronto baseball.

I really don't like putting people on ignore but wow - that's possibly tenmost stupid comment.

Goodbye.

Krylian
04-14-2012, 10:24 PM
I knew this idiot was going to hit into a double play.

Arencibia may be the worst Jay in the history of Toronto baseball.

How is this Minor League thread worthy?

1hardcore
04-14-2012, 11:00 PM
I knew this idiot was going to hit into a double play.

Arencibia may be the worst Jay in the history of Toronto baseball.

How long have u been a fan ?? Like seriously , i've seen some dumb posts, but this one takes the cake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FlakeyFool
04-14-2012, 11:46 PM
how long have you been a fan to have not seen a troll post before?

Sanyo
04-15-2012, 12:32 AM
Sanchez and Nicolino 3 scoreless innings each! Brat pack of Sanchez, Nicolino and Syndergaard getting ready for mid season Dunedin call up. Dyson and Stilson will likely move up to Double A to help that team which sucks now.

bomber0104
04-15-2012, 12:36 AM
Sanchez and Nicolino kept their ERAs at 0.00

Sanchez started
3 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 2BB, 3K

Nicolino followed
3 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 1BB, 3K

Perez continues his hot hitting ... 2-4 (.310), 2B, SB
Pillar 2-6 (.344)
Hawkins 2-5 (.353)
Sweeney 0-4 (.235), 2BB

bomber0104
04-15-2012, 12:39 AM
Dyson pitched well again in his second career start
5 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 4K and a great 8-1 GB to FB ratio

Not much hitting

Marisnick 0-2 (.229)
Knecht 0-4 (.176), 2 K

bomber0104
04-15-2012, 12:41 AM
Cecil roughed up again at AA

Team offense sucks at NH this year

Jimenez 0-3 (.214)
Justin Jackson 2-3 (.429), 1BB, SB (4th)

Maybe we have something in Jackson

Sanyo
04-15-2012, 12:45 AM
Cecil roughed up again at AA

Team offense sucks at NH this year

Jimenez 0-3 (.214)
Justin Jackson 2-3 (.429), 1BB, SB (4th)

Maybe we have something in Jackson

Too early to tell on Jackson...if he keeps it up the whole year I'll be impressed...

Toxeryll
04-15-2012, 12:56 AM
Cecil roughed up again at AA

Team offense sucks at NH this year

Jimenez 0-3 (.214)
Justin Jackson 2-3 (.429), 1BB, SB (4th)

Maybe we have something in Jackson

i remember he had a great start last year as well but was terrible in the last 2-3 months of the season

es0terik
04-15-2012, 02:55 AM
Looking for bounceback years from Dickie and Perez and I'm really impatient to see more of Anderson.

bartron_44
04-15-2012, 07:43 PM
Travis Snider seems to have his power stroke back. If he can come back and break out like Drabek seems poised to do, that could be another impact bat along with better defence. Thames is heating up some, but if Snider keeps mashing and walking as much as he k's, AA will have to recall him.

AA09-?
04-15-2012, 08:36 PM
Travis Snider seems to have his power stroke back. If he can come back and break out like Drabek seems poised to do, that could be another impact bat along with better defence. Thames is heating up some, but if Snider keeps mashing and walking as much as he k's, AA will have to recall him.

Being that it's Vegas, it holds much less relevance.

Toxeryll
04-15-2012, 08:44 PM
Being that it's Vegas, it holds much less relevance.

the home run he hit was crushed though, they have a video of it on milb.com

rapsjaysfan88
04-15-2012, 08:45 PM
Being that it's Vegas, it holds much less relevance.

he only hit 3 last year, pcl or not, so ya his power stroke is back

rapsjaysfan88
04-15-2012, 08:48 PM
hech outside of the k has been very impressive

AA09-?
04-15-2012, 08:55 PM
he only hit 3 last year, pcl or not, so ya his power stroke is back

Actually he hit 4 in AAA alone (22 doubles too).

Dol-Fan
04-15-2012, 08:59 PM
Actually he hit 4 in AAA alone (22 doubles too).

the point still stands. 7 HR in nearly 500 PAs between the majors and AAA is pretty bad and not indicative of his true power.

3 HR in 35 PAs much better.

AA09-?
04-15-2012, 09:08 PM
the point still stands. 7 HR in nearly 500 PAs between the majors and AAA is pretty bad and not indicative of his true power.

3 HR in 35 PAs much better.

Fair enough, my point was and is that it's Vegas.

Dol-Fan
04-15-2012, 10:12 PM
Fair enough, my point was and is that it's Vegas.

OK. Coming from someone who has watched 75% of the Vegas games so far, I can tell you that Snider is hitting the ball hard. Yeah, some lazy fly balls go out around the league, but Snider has been hitting the ball on a line, and I've seen 2 of his HRs go out live, and both were to the deepest part of the Vegas park, which is known as "death valley" because it's very tough to hit the ball out to that spot. I believe it measures out to 425 or 430.

You can say "oh, it's Vegas" all you want, but the fact remains that he hit 1 more HR last year in about 200 more PAs in Vegas. The fact that he's on pace to do so much better is very encouraging. I suggest you watch the games before dismissing success on the basis of "oh, it's Vegas"

Toxeryll
04-15-2012, 10:23 PM
OK. Coming from someone who has watched 75% of the Vegas games so far, I can tell you that Snider is hitting the ball hard. Yeah, some lazy fly balls go out around the league, but Snider has been hitting the ball on a line, and I've seen 2 of his HRs go out live, and both were to the deepest part of the Vegas park, which is known as "death valley" because it's very tough to hit the ball out to that spot. I believe it measures out to 425 or 430.

You can say "oh, it's Vegas" all you want, but the fact remains that he hit 1 more HR last year in about 200 more PAs in Vegas. The fact that he's on pace to do so much better is very encouraging. I suggest you watch the games before dismissing success on the basis of "oh, it's Vegas"

good to know. AA also said on the radio today that hes much better this season hitting the ball with authority. he said snider was slapping the ball last year when he got sent down. i hope he gets a chance before the all-star break at the latest

DeRozan10
04-15-2012, 11:01 PM
good to know. AA also said on the radio today that hes much better this season hitting the ball with authority. he said snider was slapping the ball last year when he got sent down. i hope he gets a chance before the all-star break at the latest

where can i find this radio interview??

Toxeryll
04-15-2012, 11:33 PM
where can i find this radio interview??

he was interviewed by ashby during the game today so i dont think theres a link for it

ah nuts
04-16-2012, 12:01 AM
good to know. AA also said on the radio today that hes much better this season hitting the ball with authority. he said snider was slapping the ball last year when he got sent down. i hope he gets a chance before the all-star break at the latest

i always was a big snider supporter, but last year made it a bit difficult. Just as you say, last year he was not hitting with authority. It was weird cus he such a strong kid.

good to see the old snider again. I look forward to his LV stats for a sugary pick me up.

Sanyo
04-16-2012, 12:54 AM
Last year Snider wasnt hitting to his potential cause they were getting him to try out a new swing and it was a complete and utter fail. I hope they just let the guy hit the way he did when he started his career. Just let him play and dont pressure him and he'll be fine...

ILDD
04-16-2012, 07:42 AM
OK. Coming from someone who has watched 75% of the Vegas games so far, I can tell you that Snider is hitting the ball hard. Yeah, some lazy fly balls go out around the league, but Snider has been hitting the ball on a line, and I've seen 2 of his HRs go out live, and both were to the deepest part of the Vegas park, which is known as "death valley" because it's very tough to hit the ball out to that spot. I believe it measures out to 425 or 430.

You can say "oh, it's Vegas" all you want, but the fact remains that he hit 1 more HR last year in about 200 more PAs in Vegas. The fact that he's on pace to do so much better is very encouraging. I suggest you watch the games before dismissing success on the basis of "oh, it's Vegas"

Thanks, good to get info from someone who actually watches the game.

Valleyfella
04-16-2012, 07:57 AM
No matter what Snider does in AAA, he's not coming up unless Thames fails and Thames will be given time to prove himself.

ah nuts
04-16-2012, 09:13 AM
No matter what Snider does in AAA, he's not coming up unless Thames fails and Thames will be given time to prove himself.

i have faith in thames failure... seriously though, if thames was to be a could hitter, it usually takes a few years, a few years he doesn't have... not with EE shining.

May - june i'm guessing.

Kenny Powders
04-16-2012, 10:54 AM
No matter what Snider does in AAA, he's not coming up unless Thames fails and Thames will be given time to prove himself.

If all was fair, then he would be given the 100-200 at bats at a time that Snider was given, especially with Snider breathing down his throat. Especially with Thames' horrid defense.

bartron_44
04-16-2012, 11:30 AM
i have faith in thames failure... seriously though, if thames was to be a could hitter, it usually takes a few years, a few years he doesn't have... not with EE shining.

May - june i'm guessing.

I am not even sure what this is supposed to mean? Did you write this on your cell phone with auto-correct on or something? (not trying to be rude, simply asking..)

I think you meant "If he is going to be a good hitter, it will take more time then he will have to prove himself with EE shining at DH"

If that is what you meant to say, then I agree. He won't peak as a hitter for another couple years, so if he has a sophomore slump, he may end up losing his job pretty quickly the way EE and Snider are swinging the bats right now to start the season, and all the hype around this team.

bartron_44
04-16-2012, 11:41 AM
not sure if this is the right thread, but he just came from the minors so I will put it here....

I think we may have found a new cheap replacement for scrabbles.....Evan crawford. He has a deceptive delivery, can run his fastball up to 93 mph with good location, and he has a great breaking ball that is a great change of speed with big time bend. He is supposed to be able to throw a slider too, but we didn't see that last night (at least I don't remember seeing one..). He and Perez could end up being solid left handed relievers for the next several seasons. They each have great arms and good breaking balls..they should be lethal on left handed bats.

Sanyo
04-16-2012, 01:13 PM
Danny Barnes is another arm who I can see up likely next year if one of Oliver or Cordero leave. They still have Joel Carreno as well.

jaysforever
04-16-2012, 01:19 PM
OK. Coming from someone who has watched 75% of the Vegas games so far, I can tell you that Snider is hitting the ball hard. Yeah, some lazy fly balls go out around the league, but Snider has been hitting the ball on a line, and I've seen 2 of his HRs go out live, and both were to the deepest part of the Vegas park, which is known as "death valley" because it's very tough to hit the ball out to that spot. I believe it measures out to 425 or 430.


Dol...is he taking anything out to left field? Also, how is he handling the offspeed stuff to the outside corner? Is he yanking off it or driving it to left like Johnson and Thames do, for example? If you can get any insights on this it would be helpful.

BlueJayFanDan
04-16-2012, 03:18 PM
Danny Barnes is another arm who I can see up likely next year if one of Oliver or Cordero leave. They still have Joel Carreno as well.

We have quite a few arms we could see in the bullpen next year potentially if guys leave. Evan Crawford who just got called up, Danny Barnes, Danny Farquhar, Chad Beck, Trystan Magnuson. I think all of them could be up next year depending on how many openings we have. Bullpen is something we have good potential at which is nice.

town123
04-16-2012, 05:13 PM
Loving the Vegas milb info..... thx Dol-Fan!

jaysforever
04-16-2012, 07:23 PM
Syndy vs Archie Bradley tonight. Kool matchup!

bartron_44
04-16-2012, 07:57 PM
4 K's through 2 for Noah....here he goes again :)

Dol-Fan
04-16-2012, 08:10 PM
Dol...is he taking anything out to left field? Also, how is he handling the offspeed stuff to the outside corner? Is he yanking off it or driving it to left like Johnson and Thames do, for example? If you can get any insights on this it would be helpful.

He is taking the ball to left-centre, not much straight out to left from what I've seen, save for a few singles. Hard hit balls are ranging from a dead pull to moderate oppo field. When he goes that way, he's driving it real well. Like what we saw glimpses of in 09 and 10. TBH it can be tough to see where the ball enters the strike zone because of the camera angle (well behind home plate, right field side - if you've ever watched MiLB.tv you'd understand my pain) but when he has trouble, it seems to be with the breaking pitches low and away, which is definitely troubling. He seems to lay off them fairly well (although that could definitely change with the talent increase from AAA to majors) but when he does hack at them, it still looks ugly.

Long story short: power stroke appears back, driving the ball to 3/4s of the field, hitting the ball with authority, better eye but still not great, still has flaws with plate discipline especially breaking pitches low and outside.

Dol-Fan
04-16-2012, 08:14 PM
Syndy vs Archie Bradley tonight. Kool matchup!

Beauty of a matchup. I really wish MiLB.tv would broadcast games from all levels :(

Stilson had his first misstep today, 3.2 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 2 K...also had a balk, not sure how that played into his troubles.

Syndergaard finished with 6 Ks in 3 IP, 2 H, 0 BB

craigerlee
04-16-2012, 08:23 PM
Beauty of a matchup. I really wish MiLB.tv would broadcast games from all levels :(

Stilson had his first misstep today, 3.2 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 2 K...also had a balk, not sure how that played into his troubles.

Syndergaard finished with 6 Ks in 3 IP, 2 H, 0 BB

Good outing for Syndergaard, looking at the boxscore he had 4 GB outs and zero FB outs, so that's good to see as well. I hope they start stretching him out soon, I hate these 3 inning starts as they always look dominate since they only have to face the order once. I'd rather see them on pitch counts then inning counts.

Dol-Fan
04-16-2012, 08:29 PM
A real camera angle with the 51s game! I've got tons of work to do tonight, but hopefully I'll be able to get some updates going. The angle at the Vegas home games is horrible. Much better now. This actually feels like an MLB broadcast.

lexecutioner
04-16-2012, 09:22 PM
A real camera angle with the 51s game! I've got tons of work to do tonight, but hopefully I'll be able to get some updates going. The angle at the Vegas home games is horrible. Much better now. This actually feels like an MLB broadcast.

:clap: i would like to say you are really appreciated my friend!

jaysforever
04-16-2012, 09:35 PM
Long story short: power stroke appears back, driving the ball to 3/4s of the field, hitting the ball with authority, better eye but still not great, still has flaws with plate discipline especially breaking pitches low and outside.

Dol...great update...thanks! The big leaguers were consistently throwing offspeed to the outside corner for Travis, and he was pulling off causing ground outs to the second baseman. They will certainly keep doing this when they see him again! I hope he sees a lot of this in AAA so he can work on driving these pitches to left.

Sanyo
04-16-2012, 11:47 PM
Syndergaard is a beast so far, but agree need to stop babying these guys, give them 4-5 innings. Also hate Nicolino and Sanchez pitching on the same day, split them up.

I think by May the starters will be Syndergaard, Nicolino, Sanchez, Desclafani and Jesse Hernandez.

ah nuts
04-17-2012, 12:04 AM
Danny Barnes is another arm who I can see up likely next year if one of Oliver or Cordero leave. They still have Joel Carreno as well.

i just assumed AA will trade Oliver and Cordero for prospects at july's deadline and replaced them with Crawford and Carreno.

bomber0104
04-17-2012, 12:29 AM
Descalfani and Syndergaard continuing to pitch well.. and I agree screw the 3 innings starts..

Toxeryll
04-17-2012, 02:27 AM
Someone from battersbox mentioned that Syndergaard got 5 Ks with curveballs which was around 68mph.

Krylian
04-17-2012, 08:45 AM
Someone from battersbox mentioned that Syndergaard got 5 Ks with curveballs which was around 68mph.

Too slow for my liking. Most curveballs are in the high-70's...and probably should be in the low-80's as far as Syndergaard's arm is concerned.

Dave Bush had a high 60's curveball and some of you may remember how slow and loopy that was.

The problem with Noah last year and is curve was slowing down his arm speed to throw it...apparently that's gotten better so far this year but I'd like to see a little more mph on his curve and tighten up that break.

Sanyo
04-17-2012, 10:54 AM
I wonder if we can somehow get confirmation on the 68 mph curve.

Syndergaard just started developing a curve last year so its still a work in progress...still has the fastball, change and splitter in his arsenal.

Dol-Fan
04-17-2012, 11:20 AM
Too slow for my liking. Most curveballs are in the high-70's...and probably should be in the low-80's as far as Syndergaard's arm is concerned.

Dave Bush had a high 60's curveball and some of you may remember how slow and loopy that was.

The problem with Noah last year and is curve was slowing down his arm speed to throw it...apparently that's gotten better so far this year but I'd like to see a little more mph on his curve and tighten up that break.

Hm. Hopefully he can really improve on that over the year and offseason, because that will be a big problem when he gets to AA. That's when the competition really steps up. A confirmation report on this would be awesome.


Dol...great update...thanks! The big leaguers were consistently throwing offspeed to the outside corner for Travis, and he was pulling off causing ground outs to the second baseman. They will certainly keep doing this when they see him again! I hope he sees a lot of this in AAA so he can work on driving these pitches to left.

The only issue with him seeing a lot of it in AAA is that major league stuff is a lot different from AAA stuff. He's looked bad on a few sharp breaking pitches real low and outside, but not many. Most of the time he just lays off them. The issue here: they are balls. In the majors, he'll get that stuff, as you alluded to, on the outside corner in his problem zone, but he can't lay off of it because it's a strike. I think it's just one of those things where, you really want to see improvement in AAA (and I think we have), but the only way to know for sure is if he gets PT in the majors.


:clap: i would like to say you are really appreciated my friend!

unfortunately the Vegas game stunk tonight. I didn't get to catch the first game, I missed Snider's double (although he took a lot of pitches on the AB and hit it deep to left). Gose looked really bad at the plate (had a pop up or two, not making good contact despite pretty decent pitch recognition), really good in the field in terms of taking great routes and just showcasing his speed out there. Hech was similar. Looked great in the field but he's hit a bit of a rough stretch with the bat. His plate discipline is not nearly as bad as I thought, he takes some borderline pitches that he'd just roll over anyway if he decided to swing. He made decent contact, not on a line though, and was hitting balls right to the infielders.

Dol-Fan
04-17-2012, 11:38 AM
stat wrap for the night:

LV 2header combined stats
Gose 1-7, K
Hech 0-7, 2 K, turned 3 DP over the two games though and looked darn good doing it.
Snider 3-6, 2B, K
TdA 0-3, K

NH
Jimenez 2-4
McDade 3-4, avg to .341, already has 3 errors on the year? weird for a guy supposed to be a killer fielder
Jackson 0-3 (crazy that I'm even keeping up on him when he sucks...shows how good he's been this year) but somehow made his 4th error in CF? really? 4 errors in CF in like 10 or 11 games? is that even possible?

Dunedin
Marisnick 0-3, K, HBP (for the third time I believe this year...is it something in his stance or is he just unlucky?)
Knecht 3-4, 2 2B - not that I care about RBIs, but Knecht has 14 in 11 games
Crouse 0-3, BB, 2 K
Stilson 3.2 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 2 K as was mentioned on the last page. his first road bump.

Lansing
I think we all know what Syndergaard and DeSclafani did :) Both look great to start the year
Hawkins 0-4
Sweeney 1-3, BB, K
Javier Avendano struck out all 6 batters he faced.

Sanyo
04-17-2012, 11:53 AM
So I guess we see Cardona, Musgrove, Norris to start Vancouver and Comer, Osuna to start in Bluefield. Can't wait until May and June when their seasons start!

Krylian
04-17-2012, 12:02 PM
I wonder if we can somehow get confirmation on the 68 mph curve.

Syndergaard just started developing a curve last year so its still a work in progress...still has the fastball, change and splitter in his arsenal.

I've never heard him throwing a splitter. Was that in a scouting report somewhere?

Krylian
04-17-2012, 12:04 PM
So I guess we see Cardona, Musgrove, Norris to start Vancouver and Comer, Osuna to start in Bluefield. Can't wait until May and June when their seasons start!

Pretty sure we'll see Osuna in GCL. He won't be turning 17 until July 2nd.

JaysFan87
04-17-2012, 12:13 PM
Descalfani and Syndergaard continuing to pitch well.. and I agree screw the 3 innings starts..

I think at this point they would rather have them pitch teh whole minor league year rather than shut them down early.

craigerlee
04-17-2012, 12:56 PM
I think at this point they would rather have them pitch teh whole minor league year rather than shut them down early.

Ya but 3 innings is meaningless. Have them on a pitch count. Give them 50 pitches to start or something like that, if they can get through 4 innings on 50 pitches let them do that and keep gradually increasing it every start. Inning limits are stupid.

Krylian
04-17-2012, 01:11 PM
Ya but 3 innings is meaningless. Have them on a pitch count. Give them 50 pitches to start or something like that, if they can get through 4 innings on 50 pitches let them do that and keep gradually increasing it every start. Inning limits are stupid.

The innings will increase once the weather gets a little warmer. The Jays have already said this. I don't have a problem with the organization being a little extra cautious during their first month of full season ball. I'm not that impatient that I can't wait for longer outings. If they get their 100-120 IP by the end of the year why does it really matter if it's done more gradually or more aggressivly then shutting them down early? As long as they're developing and staying healthy....giddy up!

ah nuts
04-17-2012, 01:23 PM
I'm sure somewhere in jays management they're saying:

OMG, the forum posters are right, 3 innings is stupid, we really should be paying more attention to our top prospects.

craigerlee
04-17-2012, 01:29 PM
The innings will increase once the weather gets a little warmer. The Jays have already said this. I don't have a problem with the organization being a little extra cautious during their first month of full season ball. I'm not that impatient that I can't wait for longer outings. If they get their 100-120 IP by the end of the year why does it really matter if it's done more gradually or more aggressivly then shutting them down early? As long as they're developing and staying healthy....giddy up!

Did you even read my post? How does this address the fact that inning limits are stupid? A pitcher could throw 30 pitches in 3 innings or 70 pitches in 3 innings, how do those situations equate? They don't but that's exactly what they're doing, my point is they should be building up their pitch counts not their innings as that's what matters.

JaysFan87
04-17-2012, 01:33 PM
Ya but 3 innings is meaningless. Have them on a pitch count. Give them 50 pitches to start or something like that, if they can get through 4 innings on 50 pitches let them do that and keep gradually increasing it every start. Inning limits are stupid.

Teams count innings not pitches. \You know this. Considering he(Syndergaard) pitched only 59 innings last year. He will be limited in IP this year. And DeScalafani is in his first pro leagues. Teams will not take chances on players health so early in their careers.

JaysFan87
04-17-2012, 01:37 PM
The innings will increase once the weather gets a little warmer. The Jays have already said this. I don't have a problem with the organization being a little extra cautious during their first month of full season ball. I'm not that impatient that I can't wait for longer outings. If they get their 100-120 IP by the end of the year why does it really matter if it's done more gradually or more aggressivly then shutting them down early? As long as they're developing and staying healthy....giddy up!

Good chance Syndergaard doesnt top 100 innings this year.

craigerlee
04-17-2012, 01:39 PM
Teams count innings not pitches. \You know this.

Yes but it doesn't change the fact that its probably a better idea to count pitches. Letting kids labour through games at the end of the year cause they have innings available isn't good for them. Or yanking kids after 25 pitches cause they were just too effective. This sounds like the Dusty Baker school of thought.

JaysFan87
04-17-2012, 01:45 PM
Yes but it doesn't change the fact that its probably a better idea to count pitches. Letting kids labour through games at the end of the year cause they have innings available isn't good for them. Or yanking kids after 25 pitches cause they were just too effective. This sounds like the Dusty Baker school of thought.

Well duh... pitch counts are also monitored. But typically you are going to throw around 35-50 pitches in those 3 innings. Again the priority is innings as the sitting and then throwing does more harm to the arm then throwing a few more pitches per inning. I think you are using an extreme example of a pitcher being completely ineffective. And if thats teh case the they liekly get yanked prior to three innnigs. In the end though you'd think the pitch counts per starts will even out somewhat which is what you are looking for.

jaysforever
04-17-2012, 01:54 PM
Nolin on the mound again tonight for Dunedin. Should be interesting!

craigerlee
04-17-2012, 01:57 PM
Well duh... pitch counts are also monitored. But typically you are going to throw around 35-50 pitches in those 3 innings. Again the priority is innings as the sitting and then throwing does more harm to the arm then throwing a few more pitches per inning. I think you are using an extreme example of a pitcher being completely ineffective. And if thats teh case the they liekly get yanked prior to three innnigs. In the end though you'd think the pitch counts per starts will even out somewhat which is what you are looking for.

There's no need to give me sass, I think I've been posting on here long enough that you don't need to throw the word duh out at me when I've done nothing to insult you.

I don't completely buy that sitting between innings is worse than throwing extra pitches, as these guys keep their arms pretty warm so the muscles don't contract between innings. I just think its stupid to have this universal 3 inning limit when a guy can be extremely effective and not get enough work in or a guy can be extremely ineffective and get too much work in. You hope it balances out, but strikeout guys are more than likely gonna end up throwing a lot more pitches than ground out guys, I just don't see how you can give them the same innings limit.

JaysFan87
04-17-2012, 02:04 PM
There's no need to give me sass, I think I've been posting on here long enough that you don't need to throw the word duh out at me when I've done nothing to insult you.

I don't completely buy that sitting between innings is worse than throwing extra pitches, as these guys keep their arms pretty warm so the muscles don't contract between innings. I just think its stupid to have this universal 3 inning limit when a guy can be extremely effective and not get enough work in or a guy can be extremely ineffective and get too much work in. You hope it balances out, but strikeout guys are more than likely gonna end up throwing a lot more pitches than ground out guys, I just don't see how you can give them the same innings limit.

It wasn't as much sass as it was the obvious. I know you are a regular poster here and if it you took it as sass then sorry. Again the idea is to manage IP's not pitches as again it will balance out throughout a whole season. Trying ot manage pitches seems alot like micromanaging. Syndaargard pitched innings last year so if they want him pitching the whole year he is going ot be on IP limits to get him to 90 innings this year. Its really not that hard. Dont want to look for it but there are many studies done on this subject that give credence to the IP limits on pitchers.

craigerlee
04-17-2012, 02:21 PM
It wasn't as much sass as it was the obvious. I know you are a regular poster here and if it you took it as sass then sorry. Again the idea is to manage IP's not pitches as again it will balance out throughout a whole season. Trying ot manage pitches seems alot like micromanaging. Syndaargard pitched innings last year so if they want him pitching the whole year he is going ot be on IP limits to get him to 90 innings this year. Its really not that hard. Dont want to look for it but there are many studies done on this subject that give credence to the IP limits on pitchers.

Were gonna have to disagree on this one, as my point is basically no pitcher is the same and no inning is the same, so its not a universal measurement. Likely a groundball pitcher's pitch count will not balance out to strikeout pitchers pitch count if you give them the same innings. I don't see it all like micromanaging as you choosing to manage their pitch count instead of their innings count, which is just a more universal gauge of performance.

Krylian
04-17-2012, 02:38 PM
Did you even read my post? How does this address the fact that inning limits are stupid? A pitcher could throw 30 pitches in 3 innings or 70 pitches in 3 innings, how do those situations equate? They don't but that's exactly what they're doing, my point is they should be building up their pitch counts not their innings as that's what matters.

How do you know they're not limiting pitches. Maybe the pitch count right now is somewhere between 40 and 50 and that just happens to line up with their 3 innings. Also, they almost certainly want the next guy coming in to start an inning. You're making assumptions.

DeRozan10
04-17-2012, 02:40 PM
It's actually unbelievable that people are questioning, and are upset about this inning limit, and who pitches with who on what days.

DeRozan10
04-17-2012, 02:41 PM
I'm sure somewhere in jays management they're saying:

OMG, the forum posters are right, 3 innings is stupid, we really should be paying more attention to our top prospects.

Hahaahahahaha. Thiis. I couldnt believe what I was reading lol

craigerlee
04-17-2012, 02:49 PM
How do you know they're not limiting pitches. Maybe the pitch count right now is somewhere between 40 and 50 and that just happens to line up with their 3 innings. Also, they almost certainly want the next guy coming in to start an inning. You're making assumptions.

Cause every starter pitched 3 innings no more no less. I don't know how to find out pitch counts, but I suspect they didn't all come in at 40-50 pitches.

bartron_44
04-17-2012, 02:53 PM
I don't think you guys get it.... they do watch pitch counts. If noah would have thrown 40 pitches in the second inning, I highly doubt you see him come back out there in the 3rd. But if he has a good day and rolls through 3 innings in 40 pitches, there is no need to send him out there to throw 10 more pitches if his limit is 50. These are still guys being stretched out to pitch full seasons as a starter for the first time in Lansing. I have no problem with them limiting their use early as they build up arm strength. I actually like the idea a lot. You don't want to see them shut down in June or get hit around because they are worn out. They are simply taking things slow with these young arms we have flooding our system. Noah is striking out a tonne of hitters, so its not like he is going out there and having 3 pitch innings. The pitch count will average out over the course of the year between the quick innings and the long innings, so there is no real need to micromanage to the level you are referring to Craigerlee. If this was the middle of the summer the starters would be going longer, but there is no need to make him throw 5 innings right now just to get to 'x' amount of pitches.

Krylian
04-17-2012, 02:54 PM
Cause every starter pitched 3 innings no more no less. I don't know how to find out pitch counts, but I suspect they didn't all come in at 40-50 pitches.

I'm sure the organization knows what it's doing. I know we'd all love a meteoric rise but it'll all come in good time.

craigerlee
04-17-2012, 03:02 PM
I don't think you guys get it.... they do watch pitch counts. If noah would have thrown 40 pitches in the second inning, I highly doubt you see him come back out there in the 3rd. But if he has a good day and rolls through 3 innings in 40 pitches, there is no need to send him out there to throw 10 more pitches if his limit is 50. These are still guys being stretched out to pitch full seasons as a starter for the first time in Lansing. I have no problem with them limiting their use early as they build up arm strength. I actually like the idea a lot. You don't want to see them shut down in June or get hit around because they are worn out. They are simply taking things slow with these young arms we have flooding our system. Noah is striking out a tonne of hitters, so its not like he is going out there and having 3 pitch innings. The pitch count will average out over the course of the year between the quick innings and the long innings, so there is no real need to micromanage to the level you are referring to Craigerlee. If this was the middle of the summer the starters would be going longer, but there is no need to make him throw 5 innings right now just to get to 'x' amount of pitches.

It doesn't average out if one pitcher is just extremely more efficient than another pitcher or vice versa. If your using micromanaging with a negative connotation here, it implies by monitoring pitch count your somehow causing inefficiencies or interfering with your goal which is to stretch these pitchers out. I don't see how monitoring pitch count would do those, so yes maybe it is looking at something in more detail but it definitely shouldn't be construed as a bad thing.

Farsight
04-17-2012, 04:26 PM
I completely agree with Craigerlee on this issue. Pitch count is a far better tool to manage a pitchers overall progression through a game and season. The more details we know, the better.

Krylian
04-17-2012, 04:32 PM
I completely agree with Craigerlee on this issue. Pitch count is a far better tool to manage a pitchers overall progression through a game and season. The more details we know, the better.

I don't think anyone discounts using pitch count...I think almost everyone uses pitch count. I.e. Once you get to about 100 pitches, you're pretty unlikely to start the next inning. I think what the debate was about was that it seemed like there was an assumption that the Jays weren't considering pitch count and were only looking at 3 innings and out. I'm sure the organization is looking at far more than just pitch count too.

The kids are doing well, they're improving, and they're healthy. Whatever they're doing, it's working.

Jamiecballer
04-17-2012, 04:32 PM
I completely agree with Craigerlee on this issue. Pitch count is a far better tool to manage a pitchers overall progression through a game and season. The more details we know, the better.

right. but the people who actually need to know these things, do.

craigerlee
04-17-2012, 04:35 PM
I know they look at pitch count, but the point is that they seem to look at IP's first in most circumstances and pitch count second. When ideally I think pitch count should be the most important factor as no inning is created equal.

Krylian
04-17-2012, 04:36 PM
right. but the people who actually need to know these things, do.

Yes.

I mean, ideally, I'd love to have data on every pitch thrown...what it was...velocity...location...break/movement. But that info isn't available to us, at least not from a minor league level. But I trust that the Jays brass has all this and more.

Maybe one day fans will be able to have access to all this as well.

Jamiecballer
04-17-2012, 04:51 PM
maybe they just don't want their young pitchers getting distracted by how many pitches they have "left"

bomber0104
04-17-2012, 05:57 PM
I think at this point they would rather have them pitch teh whole minor league year rather than shut them down early.

a guy like Syndergaard should be pushed more aggressively IMO because he has the built.. but obviously the Jays know better than we do

town123
04-17-2012, 06:12 PM
Pitch count is fine with the early chilly weather. Archie Bradley kicked our *** for 6 innings and we have our guys on a 3 inning leash? For the drive down at least I got some variety on the mound,,, not that I really wanted it.

jaysforever
04-17-2012, 06:26 PM
I know they look at pitch count, but the point is that they seem to look at IP's first in most circumstances and pitch count second. When ideally I think pitch count should be the most important factor as no inning is created equal.

Guys, i'm kind of jumping into this mid stream so i don't know all that's been said...but i'm sure they are monitoring pitch count first and foremost. If, for example Synde gets through his 3 innings in 40 pitches and they wanted him to go 50, he'll likely get 10 more pitches in with a bullpen session. They mentioned this several times in spring training. The advantage of using innings in the game is they can get everyone in that they want to, and be able to let them know they'll be pitching.

jaysforever
04-17-2012, 06:36 PM
Nolin 3 up 3 down in the first inning with 2 strikeouts! Announcer said he was dialing it up to 93! And this was the opposing team's announcers!

If you want to listen live:

http://radio.securenetsystems.net/v4/index.cfm?stationCallSign=WSBB

bartron_44
04-17-2012, 06:37 PM
It doesn't average out if one pitcher is just extremely more efficient than another pitcher or vice versa. If your using micromanaging with a negative connotation here, it implies by monitoring pitch count your somehow causing inefficiencies or interfering with your goal which is to stretch these pitchers out. I don't see how monitoring pitch count would do those, so yes maybe it is looking at something in more detail but it definitely shouldn't be construed as a bad thing.

How many pitches you have thrown is almost always valued when determining whether or not to send a pitcher out for another inning. What I was saying is that there is simply no need to micromanage to the point where you are simply sending someone out to throw an extra few pitches because they need to reach a certain number. Remember, this is also a unique because this is the year when these pitchers switch from a short season to a full season in pro ball. All I am saying is that there is plenty of time for these guys to reach whatever limits the guys who actually have control put on them. Whether it be 100 innings or 1500 pitches or whatever.

For example, Last year Casey Lawrence made 21 starts and threw 125 innings in Lansing alone. Syndergaard only made 11 starts last year, and threw under 60 innings. He isn't really ready for a full season yet. he needs to be eased into the full season schedule.

bomber0104
04-17-2012, 10:21 PM
Nolin 3 up 3 down in the first inning with 2 strikeouts! Announcer said he was dialing it up to 93! And this was the opposing team's announcers!

If you want to listen live:

http://radio.securenetsystems.net/v4/index.cfm?stationCallSign=WSBB

93 is nice from a lefty... doesn't hurt to have more pitchers thats for sure

Sanyo
04-17-2012, 10:26 PM
Jenkins got ROUGHED UP! 2.2 innings, 9 hits, 8 er, 2 walks, 0 sos.

ERA up to 8.04. Ouch!

bomber0104
04-17-2012, 10:39 PM
yup bad start for Jenkins...

Hech with another 0-3 so far.. haven't checked but has had a few O fers .. avg down to .308

Luca68
04-17-2012, 10:40 PM
wow roughed up isnt even the word

bomber0104
04-17-2012, 10:41 PM
Nolin's start didn't go too well after that 1st inning.

4 IP, 6 H, 5 R, 4ER, 3BB, 5K

David Rollins with another great start for Lansing

4.1 IP, 4H, 0 R, 1BB, 7K

Luca68
04-17-2012, 10:45 PM
atleast somebody had a good start :)

Luca68
04-17-2012, 10:53 PM
hows gose doing?

ah nuts
04-17-2012, 11:08 PM
I don't think anyone discounts using pitch count...I think almost everyone uses pitch count. I.e. Once you get to about 100 pitches, you're pretty unlikely to start the next inning. I think what the debate was about was that it seemed like there was an assumption that the Jays weren't considering pitch count and were only looking at 3 innings and out. I'm sure the organization is looking at far more than just pitch count too.

The kids are doing well, they're improving, and they're healthy. Whatever they're doing, it's working.

plus, for all we know, these pitchers could be throwing a little more than usual before their innings or after their innings. Besides, it's only2 weeks in.

ah nuts
04-17-2012, 11:10 PM
good to hear...

apparently Cecil has been an excellent team mate in AA

bomber0104
04-17-2012, 11:18 PM
good to hear...

apparently Cecil has been an excellent team mate in AA

nice.. he can stay there

lexecutioner
04-18-2012, 09:41 AM
AAA:

Gose went 0-3, 2K's (Avg.151)
Hech went 0-4 (avg.302)
Snider went 1-3 2B
D'Arnaud went 0-4 2K's (avg.200)

(Fun stuff: They went against former Jay Flamethrower Brad Mills who gave up only 1ER)

Lansing:

Perez went 0-4
Pillar 1-4
Hawkins 1-3
Sweeney 1-3 3B

Hampshire:

Jackson 2-5
McDade 1-4
Jimenez 1-5

As mentioned Chad Jenkins got Melancon'ed :facepalm:

Dunedin:

Marisnick 1-5 2B
Knecht 1-4 2K's
Ahrens our future HoF'er 0-2 (he will bounce back :P)
Crouse 1-3

as mentioned Nolin with A katy Perry hot N cold performance
started good but end up sucking 4IP 5R 4ER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just from boxscores havent seen any game so take the numbers for what it is :)

Sanyo
04-18-2012, 11:06 AM
Hopefully the Vegas bats get going soon, the three guys you really want to see get going are struggling out of the gate (Gose, D'Arnaud, and Hech the last few games after his hot start). Snider still doing well, liking that.

DeRozan10
04-18-2012, 11:27 AM
Hopefully the Vegas bats get going soon, the three guys you really want to see get going are struggling out of the gate (Gose, D'Arnaud, and Hech the last few games after his hot start). Snider still doing well, liking that.

All 3 will probably be down there all year so they got lots of time.

Dol-Fan
04-18-2012, 11:43 AM
Thanks lex, I don't really have time today with an exam coming up in a few hours. Much appreciated.

and to the above ^^ Hech is in a 3 or 4 game slide. He'll be fine IMO, with how hard he's hit the ball and his pitch recognition. Gose is a work in progress. He might struggle for a while before hitting his stride. TdA will be fine too, he's had some games where he's looked really good, just needs to find that consistency.

lexecutioner
04-18-2012, 11:48 AM
Thanks lex, I don't really have time today with an exam coming up in a few hours. Much appreciated.

and to the above ^^ Hech is in a 3 or 4 game slide. He'll be fine IMO, with how hard he's hit the ball and his pitch recognition. Gose is a work in progress. He might struggle for a while before hitting his stride. TdA will be fine too, he's had some games where he's looked really good, just needs to find that consistency.

No problem bro, I remembered you saying yesterday you are working on some stuff so instead of just waiting lol might as well do something for a change :) Good luck on exams.

And yeah Hech is playing well except for the last few games defense is still top notch as reports indicate.

JaysFan87
04-18-2012, 12:10 PM
a guy like Syndergaard should be pushed more aggressively IMO because he has the built.. but obviously the Jays know better than we do

Agreed and he is only 19 years old so LOTS of time for him to develop.

bomber0104
04-18-2012, 10:54 PM
Much better start from Deck after 2 horrible ones

he pitched 6.1 scoreless innings on 1 hit with 3 walks and 3 Ks

Toxeryll
04-18-2012, 11:32 PM
Much better start from Deck after 2 horrible ones

he pitched 6.1 scoreless innings on 1 hit with 3 walks and 3 Ks

hopefully he keeps it up so we caan trade him for someone good

Krylian
04-18-2012, 11:35 PM
hopefully he keeps it up so we caan trade him for someone good

I agree.

bomber0104
04-18-2012, 11:37 PM
hopefully he keeps it up so we caan trade him for someone good

yup exactly my thinking.. he is much more valuable to us as a trade piece especially with an NL team. I can't see him having that much success in this divsiion

JaysFan87
04-18-2012, 11:46 PM
umm...why not?.....he was 3 above average pitches (fastball, slider and change up) can sit in the 92-94 range. Throws strikes (9 k/9). Yes he is a little homer prone BUT he is only 22 years old and is likely going to make his debut in the MLB this year. There is alot to like in him and Jenkins. The prospects in low A have a while until they are ready to debut and become regulars. Between now and then you have 3 years where you need the Hitchisons, McGuires, and Jenkins to pitch for you and its likely that they will all pitch for the jays in that time and yes even possible be successful.

Krylian
04-19-2012, 12:09 AM
umm...why not?.....he was 3 above average pitches (fastball, slider and change up) can sit in the 92-94 range. Throws strikes (9 k/9). Yes he is a little homer prone BUT he is only 22 years old and is likely going to make his debut in the MLB this year. There is alot to like in him and Jenkins. The prospects in low A have a while until they are ready to debut and become regulars. Between now and then you have 3 years where you need the Hitchisons, McGuires, and Jenkins to pitch for you and its likely that they will all pitch for the jays in that time and yes even possible be successful.

He doesn't have 3 above average pitches...only his slider is above average. He does not sit 92-94...he sits 89-92 and touches 93-94.

He isn't a high ceiling guy...he's a high floor guy. He and Jenkins are both tradable commodities and should be groomed for just that.

Sanyo
04-19-2012, 01:51 AM
Wow can't believe STL is making Shelby Miller pitch in Triple A in the PCL League. OUCH! Should be the 5th starter for STL right now...if Hutch is being considered for a start with 6 starts over A level ball, Miller should definitely be pitching right now in STL...

bomber0104
04-19-2012, 03:16 AM
umm...why not?.....he was 3 above average pitches (fastball, slider and change up) can sit in the 92-94 range. Throws strikes (9 k/9). Yes he is a little homer prone BUT he is only 22 years old and is likely going to make his debut in the MLB this year. There is alot to like in him and Jenkins. The prospects in low A have a while until they are ready to debut and become regulars. Between now and then you have 3 years where you need the Hitchisons, McGuires, and Jenkins to pitch for you and its likely that they will all pitch for the jays in that time and yes even possible be successful.

yeah like Krylian said, those are some overeaggerated scouting reports that you are reading on Deck. He has 4 average pitches, none of them plus and he certainly doesn't sit 92-94. Those scouting reports make it seem like everyone in the minors throws in the low to high 90s but once they make it to the show, the velocity suddenly disappears.

We saw it with Stewart last year. The guy apparently threw in the low 90s then got up here and could barely touch 90 with the fastball. Same thing with Carreno. He threw way more 89 and 90 MPH fastballs in his start than the 92 we've been hearing about.

so yes Deck still has the potential to be a solid bottom of the rotation starter but that is not what we're looking for on this team. That is why i'm saying he might be more valuable to other organizations that play in weaker divsions