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EaglesJackson10
04-03-2012, 04:50 PM
1. Albert Pujols
2. Roy Halladay
3. Miguel Cabrera
4. Justin Verlander
5. Felix Hernandez
6. Ryan Braun
7. Clayton Kershaw
8. Troy Tulowitzki
9. Tim Lincecum
10. Robinson Cano
11. CC Sabathia
12. Mariano Rivera
13. Matt Kemp
14. Jose Bautista
15. Adrian Gonzalez
16. Evan Longoria
17. Prince Fielder
18. Cliff Lee
19. Joey Votto
20. Cole Hamels
21. Justin Upton
22. Dustin Pedroia
23. Jacoby Ellsbury
24. Jered Weaver
25. Josh Hamilton

Pretty awful list. Pujols shouldn't be 1. Kemp, Bautista, and Longoria are way too low. Lincecum and Cano are not top 10 players in the league. Rivera is great but is obviously not a top 25 player considering he throws about 60-70 innings a season. There are many other issues throughout the rest of the 500 including Brett Gardner being below Derek Jeter :facepalm:. Discuss.

edit: I also don't understand how Josh Hamilton can be 16 spots ahead of Andrew McCutchen (#41)

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 05:07 PM
Joey Votto #19? lolololololol

VRP723
04-03-2012, 05:12 PM
This was nothing short of an abomination. Don't think I'm overstating it either. I'm a firm believer in people being entitled to their own opinions, I'm not a blind SABR follower, but this was a joke.

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 05:13 PM
I saw you tweet earlier about Mo being better than guys like Kemp, Bautista and the like. It gave me a good chuckle. Now that Im seeing it it makes me sad

VRP723
04-03-2012, 05:15 PM
Bautista and Votto, who are to me probably 1 and 2 in the game, are 14th and 19th. That's mind-blowing. There was actually someone out there who went through their top 20 players in the game, and didn't think Votto deserved being among them. Top 20. It's absurd.

long ball
04-03-2012, 05:16 PM
This list is not good.

Iodine
04-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Votto clearly isnt good guys, he plays in cinci.

DUH.

This list.... lulzy

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 05:23 PM
I know Dom Brown is on the list which I enjoy. But it's a joke

sportscrazed
04-03-2012, 05:24 PM
Please explain to me why the best second baseman in baseball is not top 10?

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 05:26 PM
Because he doesn't have RBI

1903
04-03-2012, 05:30 PM
Reds just gave the 19th best player $225 million. They got ripped off because Votto does not get RBIs like Howard.

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 05:31 PM
Howard's ranked 66 lol

GeekInThePink
04-03-2012, 05:36 PM
Holy **** sauce, Bautista that low?? okay ESPN.

MagicBucsSox
04-03-2012, 05:36 PM
Reds just gave the 19th best player $225 million. They got ripped off because Votto does not get RBIs like Howard.

Please someone else handle this I can't breathe

1903
04-03-2012, 05:40 PM
Please someone else handle this I can't breathe

Dude, Howard gets RBIs and hits bombs. Votto is not going to hit 50 bombs like Howard or get all those RBIs. My eyes are all the evidence I need.

Iodine
04-03-2012, 05:44 PM
Yankee's trolled while he thought people would know he was trolling, so is it really trolling

1903
04-03-2012, 05:48 PM
Yankee's trolled while he thought people would know he was trolling, so is it really trolling

I will report you for trolling.

Jeffy25
04-03-2012, 05:49 PM
MLB Network puts Kemp 1, ESPN puts him 13th.

It's either a sign of the awfulness of both organizations to evaluate talent, or it's a sign how even the top players in baseball are.

I'm going with both, but mainly the former of those two reasons.

Jeffy25
04-03-2012, 05:55 PM
This sweet 16 wouldn't even have Votto at all

1. Albert Pujols
vs
16. Evan Longoria

2. Roy Halladay
vs
15. Adrian Gonzalez

3. Miguel Cabrera
vs
14. Jose Bautista

4. Justin Verlander
vs
13. Matt Kemp

5. Felix Hernandez
vs
12. Mariano Rivera

6. Ryan Braun
vs
11. CC Sabathia

7. Clayton Kershaw
vs
10. Robinson Cano

8. Troy Tulowitzki
vs
9. Tim Lincecum

Kenny Powders
04-03-2012, 05:55 PM
Ohhh, ESPN never fails.

Sweet_Caroline
04-03-2012, 06:05 PM
Reds just gave the 19th best player $225 million. They got ripped off because Votto does not get RBIs like Howard.

But Votto won a Gold Glove so that helps his case. I'm not sure what is more important Gold Gloves or RBI's? Probably RBI's because defense is for nerdzzz.

dodgersuck
04-03-2012, 06:09 PM
Only real problem I have is Mariano Rivera being in the top 15.

Mitchell133
04-03-2012, 06:15 PM
10. Robinson Cano
11. CC Sabathia
12. Mariano Rivera
14. Jose Bautista

Nice to see ESPN pleasing Yanknation.

Iodine
04-03-2012, 06:19 PM
But Votto won a Gold Glove so that helps his case. I'm not sure what is more important Gold Gloves or RBI's? Probably RBI's because defense is for nerdzzz.

:laugh2: Normally this would be the post of the day, but Jersey just destroyed JB earlier so even with 70 grade lulz, Jersey's 80 grade>>>

1903
04-03-2012, 06:34 PM
But Votto won a Gold Glove so that helps his case. I'm not sure what is more important Gold Gloves or RBI's? Probably RBI's because defense is for nerdzzz.

RBIs all day. Howard gets them by the boat load and he hits lots of bombs.

EaglesJackson10
04-03-2012, 06:40 PM
Please explain to me why the best second baseman in baseball is not top 10?

1. Cano isn't the best 2nd baseman
2. There are 10 players better than the best 2nd baseman anyway

EaglesJackson10
04-03-2012, 06:43 PM
I feel bad that Keith Law has to be questioned about this list because I know it wasn't him that ****ed it up this bad.

Nymfan87
04-03-2012, 06:45 PM
RBIs all day. Howard gets them by the boat load and he hits lots of bombs.

http://i.qkme.me/1t0m.jpg

EaglesJackson10
04-03-2012, 06:47 PM
Bautista and Votto, who are to me probably 1 and 2 in the game, are 14th and 19th. That's mind-blowing. There was actually someone out there who went through their top 20 players in the game, and didn't think Votto deserved being among them. Top 20. It's absurd.

Yeah I mean I don't know if I would have Votto top 5 but I definitely should have mentioned that he was too low. I mean the fact that he is a one spot ahead of Cole Hamels is a joke and that's coming from a Phillies fan. Definitely a top 10 player. I think ESPN might have one (maybe two) top 5 players right and those are the easy ones to get right.

masTOR_shake1
04-03-2012, 06:58 PM
:facepalm:

CHRISDODGERS
04-03-2012, 07:00 PM
Rivera in front of Kemp says it all. Bautista and Votto are a ****ing abomination.

northsider
04-03-2012, 07:30 PM
My god ESPN clean yourself the **** off cause this is a mess.

A closer in the top ****ing 15 players???? You have got to be kidding me. Too much wrong with the entire list outside of having Pujols at number 1.

Sweet_Caroline
04-03-2012, 07:30 PM
I feel bad that Keith Law has to be questioned about this list because I know it wasn't him that ****ed it up this bad.

You know Keith probably **** himself when he saw this list. It's no mystery why he's not on more ESPN coverage for baseball. He would make everyone of his "colleagues" look stupid.

Just for ****s and giggles it would be fun to see a Baseball Tonight roundtable of Law, Kruk, Bowden, and Joe Morgan. So much snark...and the others wouldn't even know what was going on.

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 07:32 PM
They probably dont let him do anything because he would be to smart for the average fan

1903
04-03-2012, 07:34 PM
Who did Lee piss off to be placed 18th?

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 07:38 PM
The Yankees

1903
04-03-2012, 07:39 PM
The Yankees

Cash using his ESPN connections.

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 07:39 PM
Gotta be

Sweet_Caroline
04-03-2012, 07:42 PM
Well he only won 12 games two years ago. C'mon guys.

EaglesJackson10
04-03-2012, 07:51 PM
You know Keith probably **** himself when he saw this list. It's no mystery why he's not on more ESPN coverage for baseball. He would make everyone of his "colleagues" look stupid.

Just for ****s and giggles it would be fun to see a Baseball Tonight roundtable of Law, Kruk, Bowden, and Joe Morgan. So much snark...and the others wouldn't even know what was going on.

Not that Morgan ever seems to know what's going on.

I find it hilarious that Bowden and Law have pretty much the same titles at ESPN. Law is just so much better. I find it hilarious that Bowden was actually a major league GM.

slugger82685
04-03-2012, 07:52 PM
so much wrong with this entire list, Ian Kennedy at #61?!?!? give me a break

Iodine
04-03-2012, 08:08 PM
Jim Bowden once served as a GM for my favorite team at one point. Luckily the scouting director pretty much tased him into submission during their drafts to salvage some value

Toxeryll
04-03-2012, 08:12 PM
Rivera that high? hahaahaha

Sweet_Caroline
04-03-2012, 08:13 PM
Jim Bowden once served as a GM for my favorite team at one point. Luckily the scouting director pretty much tased him into submission during their drafts to salvage some value

Bowden: "Hey, guys we should draft this guy, he had a lot of RBI's in high school."

Director: :cricket:

Green_Monster
04-03-2012, 08:17 PM
Dude, Howard gets RBIs and hits bombs. Votto is not going to hit 50 bombs like Howard or get all those RBIs. My eyes are all the evidence I need.

:laugh2: Well done.

And this list is crap.

Iodine
04-03-2012, 09:10 PM
Bowden: "Hey, guys we should draft this guy, he had a lot of RBI's in high school."

Director: :cricket:

I hate him always for turning Soriano (a good trade) Into a sandwhich pick, AND NOTHING ELSE. FUUUU

Iodine
04-03-2012, 09:12 PM
Oh and that sandwhich pick became Josh Smoker...... ****ING ****

es0terik
04-03-2012, 10:35 PM
Dude, Howard gets RBIs and hits bombs. Votto is not going to hit 50 bombs like Howard or get all those RBIs. My eyes are all the evidence I need.

:laugh2: I love this guy.

Btw I don't know any of these analysts much but I remember seeing one guy in one of the videos on MLB.com, I think his name was Joe Sheenan or something. He had an almost perfect "Top 10 Third Basemen" list, so from the one list I saw him make, I really liked him.

es0terik
04-03-2012, 10:41 PM
So his name is *Joe Sheehan, and he works for MLB Network.

This was his Top 10 third basemen list:

1 | Longoria
2 | Zimmerman
3 | Beltre
4 | Cabrera
5 | Sandoval
6 | Wright
7 | Rodriguez
8 | Youkilis
9 | Lawrie
10| A Ramirez

I really love the list. I think Longoria being in the #1 spot is great and I absolutely love that he gave consideration to Zimmerman and Sandoval when so many others don't. At first I didn't like Cabrera being all the way down at 4 but when I heard his explanation (he thinks Cabrera is the absolute best pure hitter in the game, he only placed Beltre/Zimmerman/Longoria above him because of their ability to save 20 runs with their defense). The only changes I see myself making on this list are switching Lawrie and Youkilis and dropping Aramis Ramirez for Hanley Ramirez. I haven't seen his other rankings but I was really impressed with these ones.

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 10:42 PM
That was from MLB Network. This list is ESPN

StealingSigns
04-03-2012, 11:19 PM
Apparently that ESPN biography from a while back wasn't far off the mark. They are still doing rails of blow, and pretending to be newsworthy.

-Lavigne43-
04-03-2012, 11:23 PM
Jim Bowden's article where he revealed his OPSRBIs stat is gold. It's amazing that this guy ran a baseball organization.

sexicano31
04-03-2012, 11:26 PM
Link?

StealingSigns
04-03-2012, 11:27 PM
Jim Bowden's article where he revealed his OPSRBIs stat is gold. It's amazing that this guy ran a baseball organization.

:laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0qm0KUPeD8

Laces-Out
04-03-2012, 11:31 PM
This list is terrible

-Lavigne43-
04-03-2012, 11:33 PM
Google OPSRBIs. It was a blog entry like a year ago. He was writing about which stat he likes to use to quickly evaluate players. For hitters he said OPSRBIs, then explained what the stat was. If I remember correctly it was just the OPS (.900) + amount of RBIs (100) = OPSRBIs (1,000, I think he got rid of the decimal point). The most ridiculous stat I have ever seen.

1903
04-03-2012, 11:36 PM
I like to combine steals with doubles when evaluating players.

StealingSigns
04-03-2012, 11:48 PM
ESPN sent this memo out prior to last years All Star Game: when evaluating a hitter, it is chewing tobacco capacity multiplied by average shadow cast over home plate divided by charisma + karaoke ability.

Makes sense, right?

lol, please
04-04-2012, 12:32 AM
This list is questionable to say the least, but Lincecum in the top 10 earns a little redemption.

StealingSigns
04-04-2012, 12:35 AM
This list is questionable to say the least, but Lincecum in the top 10 earns a little redemption.

At least your guy was taken care of. :rolleyes:

BradfordIsElite
04-04-2012, 12:40 AM
Kershaw and Kemp should be higher.

At least Pujols is one.

JermanJaysFan
04-04-2012, 01:39 AM
If I owned a ball team and was hiring a new GM, in the interview I'd show them this top 25 list and ask them to count the errors. If they came up with less than 10, I'd thank them for their time and conclude the interview.

OaklandsFinest
04-04-2012, 01:54 AM
Lincecum not top 10?!?! You're high! Giving Kemp a top 10 spot after one really good season would be rediculous! There's 30 teams of 25 guys on the roster thats 750 players, if you're in the top 20 its a compliment whether you're 2 or 20 so stop nitpicking.

EaglesJackson10
04-04-2012, 01:55 AM
:laugh2: I love this guy.

Btw I don't know any of these analysts much but I remember seeing one guy in one of the videos on MLB.com, I think his name was Joe Sheenan or something. He had an almost perfect "Top 10 Third Basemen" list, so from the one list I saw him make, I really liked him.

Haven't read much of Sheehan but Keith Law is great. He's the only reason I have ESPN insider or listen to the ESPN Baseball Today Podcast. That's the thing about ESPN they have a couple diamonds hidden in a big pile of ****.

EaglesJackson10
04-04-2012, 02:19 AM
Lincecum not top 10?!?! You're high! Giving Kemp a top 10 spot after one really good season would be rediculous! There's 30 teams of 25 guys on the roster thats 750 players, if you're in the top 20 its a compliment whether you're 2 or 20 so stop nitpicking.

Not as ridiculous as your spelling of ridiculous. Kemp was arguably the best player in the league last year. His season was historic and he's had good years in the past. 2010 was terrible but he bounced back as well as he could. He's also just entering his prime so things are even looking up from last year. Lincecum is in decline. His K rate is getting lower while his walk rate is increasing from 09. He could turn back into 09 Lincecum but I wouldn't count on it. The guy was probably the third best pitcher on his own team last year.

I do enjoy the contradiction in this post. You're saying: It's absurd to think that Lincecum isn't top 10 but it doesn't really make a difference if you're in the top 20. Hmmmm.

Sweet_Caroline
04-04-2012, 02:26 AM
Haven't read much of Sheehan but Keith Law is great. He's the only reason I have ESPN insider or listen to the ESPN Baseball Today Podcast. That's the thing about ESPN they have a couple diamonds hidden in a big pile of ****.

The Podcast is great when Klaw is on it. I don't think I've actually listened to it when he wasn't on it.

http://sweaterpillows.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/shrig-im-dead-cat_2.jpg

es0terik
04-04-2012, 02:28 AM
Keith Law pisses me off sometimes though. I just always got this vibe from him that screams "I AM NEVER WRONG" and he doesn't admit he's wrong very often, even if he clearly is/was. And another thing I don't like about him is that when he doesn't like a player, he REALLY doesn't like them and rags on them whenever he has a chance.

Mr Haha
04-04-2012, 09:57 AM
Keith Law pisses me off sometimes though. I just always got this vibe from him that screams "I AM NEVER WRONG" and he doesn't admit he's wrong very often, even if he clearly is/was. And another thing I don't like about him is that when he doesn't like a player, he REALLY doesn't like them and rags on them whenever he has a chance.

He is the caricature of the snooty advanced-stat-head, which is a shame because he's right 98% of the time. The attitude detracts from his amazing understanding of the game. If only more of those sorts of people understood that. The public could be infected with an even greater understanding of the game in the post-Moneyball era.

es0terik
04-04-2012, 11:39 AM
I'm not saying that you're post in a whole is right or wrong or that I agree or disagree but Keith Law is NOT right 98% of the time. I've seen him make mistakes and call things wrong a lot of the time.

EaglesJackson10
04-04-2012, 02:18 PM
Google OPSRBIs. It was a blog entry like a year ago. He was writing about which stat he likes to use to quickly evaluate players. For hitters he said OPSRBIs, then explained what the stat was. If I remember correctly it was just the OPS (.900) + amount of RBIs (100) = OPSRBIs (1,000, I think he got rid of the decimal point). The most ridiculous stat I have ever seen.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/post/_/id/389/simple-stats-to-evaluate-teams-players

OPSBIs actually. This article is ****ing hilarious.

ichitownclowni
04-04-2012, 02:28 PM
wow what a fail of a list

Station 13
04-04-2012, 02:54 PM
What a ****ing fail ESPN.

Iodine
04-04-2012, 04:57 PM
the ESPN history book is amazing BTW, whoever mentioned it

Iodine
04-04-2012, 05:01 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/post/_/id/389/simple-stats-to-evaluate-teams-players

OPSBIs actually. This article is ****ing hilarious.

The key for me is breaking down the RBIs to differentiate the ones that came against pitchers who throw with the most velocity, change in velocity, late-breaking action, change in planes or deceptive deliveries. How often do the RBIs occur in one-run games against Mariano Rivera in the ninth inning as opposed to a 12-0 blowout in the fourth inning against a mopup reliever. It is essential to break this down in detail.

What. The. ****.

yankswin27
04-04-2012, 06:13 PM
Me and my friend were discussing who will have the better year once they come off the DL, Chase Utley or Michael Pineda. I argued Pineda because he has shoulder tendinitis, but with no structural damage, so he could be back in three to four weeks. Utley, on the other hand, is supposed to be out until mid-May with knee tendinitis, maybe even June if the Phillies opt to take it slow with him. Both are in or near the top 100 players in the game when healthy, but who will have the better season?

Jeffy25
04-05-2012, 04:51 AM
Except Utley is/was a 6 WAR player when he did/does play.

He was awesome when he played last year still, even though everyone says he has slowed up.

MrForever
04-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Hey, ESPN? Do you guys like Bautista? No? Didn't think so.

NYMetros
04-05-2012, 12:11 PM
Votto gets no love from the casual baseball fans playing out in Cincy. If he played in NY or Philly he'd easily be a concensus top 5 player in baseball

KingPosey
04-05-2012, 12:35 PM
Utley definitely was not near where he has been, you cant really rank him if he cant stay healthy.