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SpaceJamJordans
04-01-2012, 10:00 PM
Would there be more players wanting to play for the team?

EDIT: NO I AM NOT BASHING CANADA IN ANYWAY. TORONTO IS A GREAT BIG MARKET AND I AM WONDERING WHY NOBODY PLAYS THERE

BlinkManJan02
04-01-2012, 10:02 PM
ahh I've never looked at it that way.

heyman321
04-01-2012, 10:05 PM
No. Players want to play for good teams. If the Raptors were 60-22, everyone would want to play for them.

Trace
04-01-2012, 10:05 PM
If Toronto had a winning culture, they'll have no problems attracting FAs.

Cal827
04-01-2012, 10:08 PM
:pity: some of these threads lol

Cfrey
04-01-2012, 10:13 PM
:pity: some of these threads lol

this lol..

but no it has nothing to do with them playing in canada..

**** toronto is one of the bigger markets in the NBA

B'sCeltsPatsSox
04-01-2012, 10:13 PM
Raptors bashing threads FTW!

Hellcrooner
04-01-2012, 10:15 PM
Maybe Maybe not.

You would need to be a giant ignorant douchebag for that to have any influence on your decision.

Cfrey
04-01-2012, 10:19 PM
Maybe Maybe not.

You would need to be a giant ignorant douchebag for that to have any influence on your decision.

or you can't obtain a visa/passport lol

homestarunner93
04-01-2012, 10:28 PM
Maybe Maybe not.

You would need to be a giant ignorant douchebag for that to have any influence on your decision.

So...if you don't want to move outside of the country you've lived in your entire life, you're a giant ignorant douche bag? Get real.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-01-2012, 10:31 PM
So...if you don't want to move outside of the country you've lived in your entire life, you're a giant ignorant douche bag? Get real.

No.

But some people are ignorant when it comes to Canada. Which equals douche bag-esque.

Hellcrooner
04-01-2012, 10:46 PM
So...if you don't want to move outside of the country you've lived in your entire life, you're a giant ignorant douche bag? Get real.

To win the KIND OF MONEY you make in the NBA.?
Having on account that theres a high chance your city doesnt have an nba team and you will have to move somwhere that isnt "your place" anyway?
COnsidering its a few miles out of the border?
considering they ****ing talk the same language ( for the most part)?

Yes you would need to be an Ignorant douchebag.

The kind of ignorance that creates wars, because "my place is better than your place"

or the same kind of ignorance that makes people dress like trick or treat ghosts and call tehmselves great soup dragon or whatever and go burning decent peoples homes by night jsut because they dont fit with what they thing the acnestry of "their place is".

Theres NOWHERE in the world were i wouldnt move to make NBA salary Money.

I canb understand that if you are from Brooklyn and you got an offer from raps and knicks/nets you prefer to go to your town. That if you ared from Malibu you prefer to sign with lakers.


But if you are from cincinnati and you get several offers and ones from raptors, all you should be questioning is , who offers more money, who offers a better team for my career goals, if you take on consideration that they are not "in you country" then you are ignorant, a douchebag, a xenophobe.

SpaceJamJordans
04-01-2012, 10:46 PM
this lol..

but no it has nothing to do with them playing in canada..

**** toronto is one of the bigger markets in the NBA

No that's my point. It's a big market yet nobody wants to sign there

jtrinaldi
04-01-2012, 10:51 PM
If Toronto was a part of the USA...it would be considered the black whole of the USA....kinda like how the basketball team has been since Bosh left.

nirvana235
04-01-2012, 10:53 PM
If Toronto was a part of the USA...it would be considered the black whole of the USA....kinda like how the basketball team has been since Bosh left.

You talking about the team or the city? Cause the city is fkin amazing.

NoahH
04-01-2012, 10:54 PM
It had everything to do with being in Canada when the Grizzlies were in Vancouver

lvlheaded
04-01-2012, 11:12 PM
^ yes but Toronto>Vancouver, no offense to Vancouver.

I don't think the problem is where they play so much as the culture. Even when they had Bosh they were a fringe team and never really put a great team around him. There best hope is that Derozan improves to a star level, Valanciunas comes over and is a monster and they start winning regularly. If they can become a team that consistently fights to make noise in the playoffs, players will start to want to play there

It'sMyTime
04-01-2012, 11:23 PM
Like others have said, i believe it is the culture around the whole organization. They havent put together the type of team that is capable of winning any game, yet. The Raptors are coming up right now imo, and with good drafts like they have been having, I see no reason why they would not attract free agents.

Raph12
04-01-2012, 11:23 PM
It's a poorly run franchise, but if they get Davis and Valenciunas comes over next season, all of that will change. They have a defensive-minded coach, with a guy like Davis to anchor that defense, they'd definitely be playoffs contenders... They just need the ping-pong balls to drop in their favor.

SA5195
04-01-2012, 11:27 PM
This is the PROBLEM:

We're not a winning organization.

What attracts players the most? A team that can potentially win a championship, and make the playoffs for several years.

Common sense folks, has nothing to do with the city. Don't give me that winter BS, it's mostly the same weather as NY and CHI.

With Jonas coming over, plus a top 5 (most likely) pick, and with alot of cap space, we could attract more players this off-season, than our previous ones.

Sadds The Gr8
04-01-2012, 11:28 PM
Being in Canada isn't the only reason players don't want to come here. We've sucked most of our existance.

It'sMyTime
04-01-2012, 11:29 PM
It's a poorly run franchise, but if they get Davis and Valenciunas comes over next season, all of that will change. They have a defensive-minded coach, with a guy like Davis to anchor that defense, they'd definitely be playoffs contenders... They just need the ping-pong balls to drop in their favor.

I dont think they can become a legit playoff team until they add another wing player. That being said, I think they need a SF/SG in this upcoming draft. Dont get me wrong, with the first pick I think they would and should go with Davis, but since they likely will not have it, I think a guy like Barnes or Gilchrist would do wonders for Derozan/Barg.

MrfadeawayJB
04-01-2012, 11:30 PM
Could have something to do with it, but not too big of an issue. I agree its the lack of winning tradition that really scares off players.

deaner
04-01-2012, 11:39 PM
It's a poorly run franchise, but if they get Davis and Valenciunas comes over next season, all of that will change. They have a defensive-minded coach, with a guy like Davis to anchor that defense, they'd definitely be playoffs contenders... They just need the ping-pong balls to drop in their favor.

I'm all ear as to ALL of your reasoning why you think it's a poorly run franchise. Please include market size, profitability, and franchise direction into your argument. I will not even attack any point you make... I just want to see how educated you are about your opinion.

Brewhouse94
04-02-2012, 12:05 AM
It has nothing to do with Canada, there are a ton of american teams noone wants to sign with... Timberwolves, Nets, Sixers, Warriors, Cavs, Wizards..... wait its pretty much if your not the Heat, Lakers, Mavs or Bulls noone seems to want to play for you. lol

shep33
04-02-2012, 12:06 AM
The problem in a large part is the franchise, and I hate to say it because Toronto is a beautiful city with great fans.

They have made some of the worst trades in NBA history. Vince Carter for Erik and Aaron Williams? Really?

Rafael Araujo?

Just some straight up bone head plays by their GM (Babcock back in the day right?).

Raph12
04-02-2012, 12:18 AM
I dont think they can become a legit playoff team until they add another wing player. That being said, I think they need a SF/SG in this upcoming draft. Dont get me wrong, with the first pick I think they would and should go with Davis, but since they likely will not have it, I think a guy like Barnes or Gilchrist would do wonders for Derozan/Barg.

Davis would do more for Bargnani and DeRozan than a wing ever could... Of course I do agree that a scoring wing is important, but I believe Davis is a great prospect, if you get the #1 pick, you'd be crazy not to draft him.


I'm all ear as to ALL of your reasoning why you think it's a poorly run franchise. Please include market size, profitability, and franchise direction into your argument. I will not even attack any point you make... I just want to see how educated you are about your opinion.

Scouting, drafting, trades, ignorance and just handling certain situations... They could have done much better than they have; I could breakdown all of the little and HUGE mistakes they've made since the Raptors were founded in 95, but I don't care to get into all that **** right now.

deaner
04-02-2012, 12:21 AM
The problem in a large part is the franchise, and I hate to say it because Toronto is a beautiful city with great fans.

They have made some of the worst trades in NBA history. Vince Carter for Erik and Aaron Williams? Really?

Rafael Araujo?

Just some straight up bone head plays by their GM (Babcock back in the day right?).

Every team has bad trades and signings.

The real issue has been the ownership group. They were owned by a teachers pension fund which was only concerned about profits. This has changed and is in transition to a joint venture between content related providers. Going forward, the team Success will be much more important rather than penny pinching with bean counters fighting the GM on what he can do. The raptors are poised to make a very big splash in the next 2 years.

Ty Fast
04-02-2012, 12:33 AM
i have wondered this myself. i mean when is the last time the jays were on sunday night baseball? when was the last time the raps played on abc or espn?

Mr_Jones
04-02-2012, 12:38 AM
Lol, Canada is awesome.

It doesn't, or shouldn't have anything to do with where they're at.. But, whether or not they're a good team. Which they are not.

THE GIPPER
04-02-2012, 12:42 AM
^ yes but Toronto>Vancouver, no offense to Vancouver.

I don't think the problem is where they play so much as the culture. Even when they had Bosh they were a fringe team and never really put a great team around him. There best hope is that Derozan improves to a star level, Valanciunas comes over and is a monster and they start winning regularly. If they can become a team that consistently fights to make noise in the playoffs, players will start to want to play there

Meh obviously its all opinion but to most people, Vancouver is a nicer city. In fact, its been rated the most liveable city in the world for the past 5 years.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/22/vancouver-is-the-worlds-most-livable-city-for-a-fifth-straight-year-survey/

heyman321
04-02-2012, 12:47 AM
If by chance David Stern rigs it for the Raptors and get Davis or Kidd-Gilchrist, and Valanciunas lives up to be a dominant defensive big but can also run the floor, Raptors should be a playoff team in 1-2 years. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they are able to make the eighth seed next year. Anything is possible in the crappy East.

Becks2307
04-02-2012, 12:50 AM
the raps should be better they could have had

roy hibbert
Jrue Holiday

on their team as well if they drafted diff

Look at their picks though Davis and Derozan are both supposed to be really nice pieces, if they can keep them there with Jonas coming over and then a top draft pick next year, they could be the OKC of east.

DodgerBulls
04-02-2012, 12:55 AM
Nobody wanted to play for the Clippers prior to blake griffin... its not about the owner, but also their losing history. Similar applies for Toronto.

Ebbs
04-02-2012, 01:03 AM
Yes 100% if Toronto was the same city located in the states 100% more people would want to play there

Chronz
04-02-2012, 02:01 AM
I don't think their location is a problem, I think their problem has been that their best GM was Isiah Thomas, let that sink in

ThuglifeJ
04-02-2012, 02:13 AM
If they kept their sick purple jerseys players would consider it..

abe_froman
04-02-2012, 02:32 AM
i think in part yes,think it's intimidating to some especially as the bulk of nba talent comes from the us....though i will say the climate,or better the fears about the climate play a bigger part.but most of all has to do with lack of other stars/winning team already being in place before they would arrive.

Skizzik
04-02-2012, 02:49 AM
While a lot of it is the franchise, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that being in another country does make a difference. There are legal things. I apologize, I can't link the quote, it was a couple years back, but I remember a player being interviewed by ESPN that made a comment about the idea of playing in Canada.

You don't just walk across the border in to Canada and buy a home there like you would moving across states in the US. And the impact it has on their lives, even if it is a minor inconvenience to a millionaire, is something players surely consider.

If they were winning championships, I think the hassles become a lot easier to deal with. But I'm 100% certain the fact it's in another country has an impact.

bklynny67
04-02-2012, 02:58 AM
well... i wouldn't wanna live in Canada and i know a lot of other people wouldn't so it TOR is offering a similar contract as another team, i wouldn't be surprised if their decision is impacted by not wanting to live in Canada.

and people are saying if they had a winning culture then people would wanna play there.... well thats kinda the point.. they don't have a winning culture because people don't wanna play there.

murphturph
04-02-2012, 03:27 AM
You have to pay more taxes in canada!!!

murphturph
04-02-2012, 03:29 AM
Taxes

faridk89
04-02-2012, 04:03 AM
Raptors bashing threads FTW!

How is this a raptors bashing thread? I've lived in Toronto my entire life and believe that part of the reason players don't want to play here is because it's in Canada.

Yes it would be a lot easier to attract teams if we where better, but part of the reason is because we're canadian #EH :clap:

faridk89
04-02-2012, 04:04 AM
well... i wouldn't wanna live in Canada and i know a lot of other people wouldn't so it TOR is offering a similar contract as another team, i wouldn't be surprised if their decision is impacted by not wanting to live in Canada.

and people are saying if they had a winning culture then people would wanna play there.... well thats kinda the point.. they don't have a winning culture because people don't wanna play there.

and why wouldn't you want to live in canada

ghettosean
04-02-2012, 05:25 AM
We have had some players not want to play here just because it's Canada... I remember C-Webb back in the day saying he didn't want to play here because there wasn't enough black people... WTF.

Though I think if T.O had more of a winning culture we would get more players wanting to jump on board.

ghettosean
04-02-2012, 05:26 AM
How is this a raptors bashing thread? I've lived in Toronto my entire life and believe that part of the reason players don't want to play here is because it's in Canada.

Yes it would be a lot easier to attract teams if we where better, but part of the reason is because we're canadian #EH :clap:
agreed!

BALLER R
04-02-2012, 09:31 AM
if jonas is as good as people say he is and we get a top 3 pick then next season we will be on the right track. Once we become consistent at winning the players will come.

killersweet
04-02-2012, 10:03 AM
Meh obviously its all opinion but to most people, Vancouver is a nicer city. In fact, its been rated the most liveable city in the world for the past 5 years.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/22/vancouver-is-the-worlds-most-livable-city-for-a-fifth-straight-year-survey/

Who are the 'most' people? To each their own. I have been to Vancouver and I would never want to live there. In my opinion Toronto is much better than Vancouver.

LanceUpperCut
04-02-2012, 10:06 AM
I think the whole notion that players don't want to come to T.O. is way over blown the truth is no players want to go anywhere unless it's NY, LA, MIA etc.
Bosh and Vince both resigned in Toronto. Vince was on top of the NBA when he resigned but a **** attitude and a piece of **** GM in Babcock screwed that relationship which in the long run hurt both sides and with Bosh he was going to be a piece of this so-called big 3 which no many players would turn down especially a media whore like him. We did sign Hedo no matter how ****** he was with us he was still the top FA that offseason. I am sure there's uneducated players who think T.O. is a hockey only city and they will never make the highlight reel on ESPN if they play there but if a player is that stupid I don't want him here anyway. When we start winning we will attract as much as any team other then the big NY,LA,MIA,CHI and maybe BOS and DAL.

torocan
04-02-2012, 10:24 AM
There's probably several factors.

Winter. Cold with lots of Snow (similar to Chicago in weather). Live by the beach or hollywood? Or live in the snow playing for a team that only exists peripherally in people's consciousness?

The team has not been a contender for even the playoffs since 2006-7 and not gotten out of the first round since 2000/2001. Top tier players like chasing chips. Or at least a good playoff round.

Income tax disadvantages. Florida has no state income tax, so take home salaries are considerably higher than many other places, including Ontario, Canada. Not to mention it's more complicated having to sort out tax in 2 countries (not that these guys don't have accountants to sort it out).

US market exposure. Unlike the Lakers, Celtics or Knicks, the Toronto Raptors do not have a major market presence in the US. If you want big exposure for endorsements in the US, the US is still the place to be.

Until the Raptors can create at least 1 season of a truly competitive team (conference or championship run), they're not going to be high in people's consciousness. Even then it's dodgy. The Toronto Blue Jays won the world series 2 years in a row, yet it didn't exactly create a huge number of American Blue Jays fans.

I think the Raptors have to build a serious perennial contending team over time to have any shot of getting the big name players. If OKC wasn't a contender, how many big name players would be rushing to play there? Probably about as many as are rushing to the Trailblazers.

Good luck to the Raptors. They have more than a few things in their way.

PhillyFaninLA
04-02-2012, 10:49 AM
Would there be more players wanting to play for the team?

EDIT: NO I AM NOT BASHING CANADA IN ANYWAY. TORONTO IS A GREAT BIG MARKET AND I AM WONDERING WHY NOBODY PLAYS THERE


Your money might be taxed 3 times, in the US and Canada for sure so its defiantly taxed twice and not sure how they do it in Canada but Toronto might tax it the same time so you could be taxed on the same dollar 3 times.

Its a valid question. I think it would be possible in some cases.

Kenny Powders
04-02-2012, 11:05 AM
well... i wouldn't wanna live in Canada and i know a lot of other people wouldn't so it TOR is offering a similar contract as another team, i wouldn't be surprised if their decision is impacted by not wanting to live in Canada.

and people are saying if they had a winning culture then people would wanna play there.... well thats kinda the point.. they don't have a winning culture because people don't wanna play there.

Could I ask why? Have you ever been?

atl_braves_fan
04-02-2012, 11:26 AM
But if you are from cincinnati and you get several offers and ones from raptors, all you should be questioning is , who offers more money, who offers a better team for my career goals, if you take on consideration that they are not "in you country" then you are ignorant, a douchebag, a xenophobe.

Maybe you don't want to pay 10% more in taxes when you are only going to live in Toronto during the season. Or maybe you would rather be in a U.S. media market for endorsement money.

There could be dozens of other reasons that someone wouldn't want to be in Toronto or any other country outside the U.S. if they had the choice that don't involve an athlete being an ignorant douchebag.

atl_braves_fan
04-02-2012, 11:38 AM
Your money might be taxed 3 times, in the US and Canada for sure so its defiantly taxed twice and not sure how they do it in Canada but Toronto might tax it the same time so you could be taxed on the same dollar 3 times.

Its a valid question. I think it would be possible in some cases.

That's not entirely correct. U.S. citizens are potenitally taxed on any income they make in Canada, but they are generally entitled to a credit against this potential U.S. tax liability for any taxes paid in Canada. The thing that gets you is the higher rate in Canda - it may not sound like much to us, but when you apply to $10million per year or more, that's a good amount of cash.

BushLeague
04-02-2012, 11:46 AM
Maybe Maybe not.

You would need to be a giant ignorant douchebag for that to have any influence on your decision.

I don't think a player prefering to play in the US is ignorant at all. I remember Dwight saying he prefered to play somewhere warm, does that mean any player who takes in climate as a reason to sign somewhere is ignorant. Its personal preference, some players may just want to play where they would be most comfortable, and if that means staying in the states then so be it.

Jamiecballer
04-02-2012, 11:53 AM
It would be easier to sell it to the families of American born players, so yes.

Hellcrooner
04-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Your money might be taxed 3 times, in the US and Canada for sure so its defiantly taxed twice and not sure how they do it in Canada but Toronto might tax it the same time so you could be taxed on the same dollar 3 times.

Its a valid question. I think it would be possible in some cases.

As far as i know theres an international agreemente in orderd that you only get taxed in the country you WIN the money, or the country you have your official residence IN.
THe usual thing is if you are goign to be in a place for a while you officialy move your residence to thtat place and you pay your taxes there.
If you dont do so and keep your residence somwehre esle what happens is you normaly have to make your papers for taxes BOTH places, BUT you can discount from your taxes to pay wichever amount you have payed in one of the countrys, so in fact you only pay once.


Of course thats how it works here, maybe Uncle sam has the balls to tax u.s citizens for the money they make away regardless if they had been taxed where they are.

But doubt it.

selassi3
04-02-2012, 12:07 PM
lol, ok i'm sorry but AMERICANS in GENERAL are USUALLY.....wait for it...........IGNORANT. People act like Toronto is in another planet, that's -100 degrees CELSIUS or for your Americans FAHRENHEIT, and it's always snowing, and there are huskies running around with people on toboggans and some of us live in houses but some in igloos.... NO!

It all comes down to WINNING, and yeah some people have "preference" like some of you say with taxes, climate, and wind, and people, aliens, and whatever the eff "preferences" include, but at the end of the day, it comes down to WINNING and MONEY...If the franchise is contending or attempting too, and willing to SPEND, whether on STAFF,PLAYERS,ETC, ANYONEEEEEEEEEEEE would loveeeeeeee to play for Toronto. Anyone who says other wise is just as what I mentioned above, IGNORANT, and you probably have never been here, sooooo with all that being said.......Colangelo is doing a good job, Casey on the sidelines....Young guys willing to grow, draft picks, cap flex.......don't you worry about "Toronto"

He115ing
04-02-2012, 12:23 PM
Because it is cold

heyman321
04-02-2012, 12:28 PM
Your money might be taxed 3 times, in the US and Canada for sure so its defiantly taxed twice and not sure how they do it in Canada but Toronto might tax it the same time so you could be taxed on the same dollar 3 times.

Its a valid question. I think it would be possible in some cases.

you don't get taxed three times in professional sports. They all have some mechanism in their contracts that evens it out WHEREVER you live, this would happen if you're a regular joe but not in pro sports.

atl_braves_fan
04-02-2012, 12:28 PM
As far as i know theres an international agreemente in orderd that you only get taxed in the country you WIN the money, or the country you have your official residence IN.
THe usual thing is if you are goign to be in a place for a while you officialy move your residence to thtat place and you pay your taxes there.
If you dont do so and keep your residence somwehre esle what happens is you normaly have to make your papers for taxes BOTH places, BUT you can discount from your taxes to pay wichever amount you have payed in one of the countrys, so in fact you only pay once.


Of course thats how it works here, maybe Uncle sam has the balls to tax u.s citizens for the money they make away regardless if they had been taxed where they are.

But doubt it.

This is generally correct, but the rates are still higher in Canada.

I wonder if there is a way the leagues could adjust the allowable salary cap or work in an escalator so that all teams are on a similar ground financially - whether that is based on Canadian tax rates, state tax rates or whatever.

It has always seemed a little silly to me that the Mavericks or Heat effectively have 7-10 percent more spending power than the Knicks for free agents that receive accurate tax advice and take that advice into consideration in making their decision.

Rockwilderz
04-02-2012, 12:31 PM
And the funny thing is that ..Most people that posted here and commented about Toronto and how bad it is..

The truth is... They've never been to Toronto :clap:

Rockwilderz
04-02-2012, 12:37 PM
Because it is cold

and they live in igloos and use dog sleds to get around right? :D

LAKobeBryant
04-02-2012, 12:50 PM
its all because of our GM. BC.

masTOR_shake1
04-02-2012, 01:05 PM
I think the raps, like 20 something other teams, are just victims of circumstance. we have had same amazing players, (t-mac, vince, bosh) so i don't think we're a poorly run franchise making bad decisions all the time. the fact of the matter is that the nba is a litttle bit rigged and specific teams (like the lakers against the kings in 2002 for example) get preferential treatment because of their maket size and winning tradition. players understand this and usually leave for these handfull of teams because it's too much of an uphill battle otherwise (kg, chris paul, bosh, ray allen, lebron, melo, diwght perhaps, etc). teams like; toronto, minnesota, new orleans, charlotte and sacremento may never win a champtionship unless they draft someone with incredible skill and character like the spurs did with duncan, and then luck out with guys like parker and manu.

BALLER R
04-02-2012, 01:24 PM
People saying Toronto is cold. smh cities in the USA have been colder than us stop that nonsense. Speaking on this year its been a pretty warm winter.

gwrighter
04-02-2012, 01:33 PM
The Raptors have a tax exception that let's the team compensate the players for the differences in taxation between the US and Canada. So taxes isn't necessarily an issue. The issue is the losing. If the Raps were winning then we would have more players wanting to come here. simple as that.

Trace
04-02-2012, 01:35 PM
Most of you are wrong about the taxes.

Canada and the USA have a tax treaty which prevents double (or even triple as some of you claim) taxation of professional athletes (and other occupations). You would be right if you were talking about the common laborer. Canadian teams have often given athletes a signing bonus to help mitigate rate differences. There's simply no handicap when it comes to taxation.

Most of you are also wrong about exposure.

If you're a good player, you're going to receive exposure no matter the city you play in. Ex. Rubio

If you have a winning franchise, you'll receive attention from all of the sports networks because that's how capitalism works.

Vince Carter signed gigantic deals with Nike as a Raptor. Same with Bosh. Even lesser known players like Fred Jones were able to capitalize on substantive deals while playing in Toronto. They weren't neglected in any way whatsoever.

However, I think there's far more competing interests in the US. I don't think companies will risk saturating the market by promoting more players than they have to. Therefore, there's a greater tendency for lesser known players to be promoted in Canada than they would have had they played in the U.S.
ex. Bosh, who despite his newly garnered fame, has yet to cash in on it. While Bargnani is quietly shooting commercials with Kobe and Lebron.

Then there's the weather and a bunch of other ******** excuses for you to spout your ******** American exceptionalism.

It's not the city. It's the franchise's culture.

Hellcrooner
04-02-2012, 01:36 PM
And the funny thing is that ..Most people that posted here and commented about Toronto and how bad it is..

The truth is... They've never been to Toronto :clap:

Im eager to, my parents went last year and enjoyed it.
Ive only been to canada for 5 minutes ( yep on the Falls obviously)-

mjt20mik
04-02-2012, 01:50 PM
Most of you are wrong about the taxes.

Canada and the USA have a tax treaty which prevents double (or even triple as some of you claim) taxation of professional athletes (and other occupations). You would be right if you were talking about the common laborer. Canadian teams have often given athletes a signing bonus to help mitigate rate differences. There's simply no handicap when it comes to taxation.

Most of you are also wrong about exposure.

If you're a good player, you're going to receive exposure no matter the city you play in. Ex. Rubio

If you have a winning franchise, you'll receive attention from all of the sports networks because that's how capitalism works.

Vince Carter signed gigantic deals with Nike as a Raptor. Same with Bosh. Even lesser known players like Fred Jones were able to capitalize on substantive deals while playing in Toronto. They weren't neglected in any way whatsoever.

However, I think there's far more competing interests in the US. I don't think companies will risk saturating the market by promoting more players than they have to. Therefore, there's a greater tendency for lesser known players to be promoted in Canada than they would have had they played in the U.S.
ex. Bosh, who despite his newly garnered fame, has yet to cash in on it. While Bargnani is quietly shooting commercials with Kobe and Lebron.

Then there's the weather and a bunch of other ******** excuses for you to spout your ******** American exceptionalism.

It's not the city. It's the franchise's culture.

This. No one wants to play for a losing team.

PhillyFaninLA
04-02-2012, 03:09 PM
you don't get taxed three times in professional sports. They all have some mechanism in their contracts that evens it out WHEREVER you live, this would happen if you're a regular joe but not in pro sports.



Now that is just not true. You cannot put a mechanism in a contract that allow you to violate the law. Any income from any one source that is greater then $500 in the US and you are required to report it to the IRS.

Trace
04-02-2012, 03:14 PM
Now that is just not true. You cannot put a mechanism in a contract that allow you to violate the law. Any income from any one source that is greater then $500 in the US and you are required to report it to the IRS.

Signing bonuses are treated differently which allows for teams to make up tax differences. The U.S has tax treaties with several different countries, one of which is Canada, which allows for exceptions such as this.

Right from the lion's mouth,


The United States has tax treaties with a number of foreign countries. Under these treaties, residents (not necessarily citizens) of foreign countries are taxed at a reduced rate, or are exempt from U.S. taxes on certain items of income they receive from sources within the United States. These reduced rates and exemptions vary among countries and specific items of income. Under these same treaties, residents or citizens of the United States are taxed at a reduced rate, or are exempt from foreign taxes, on certain items of income they receive from sources within foreign countries.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/international/article/0,,id=96739,00.html

There's probably certain specifics that I'm not aware of, but you get the idea.

heyman321
04-02-2012, 04:15 PM
Signing bonuses are treated differently which allows for teams to make up tax differences. The U.S has tax treaties with several different countries, one of which is Canada, which allows for exceptions such as this.

Right from the lion's mouth,


http://www.irs.gov/businesses/international/article/0,,id=96739,00.html

There's probably certain specifics that I'm not aware of, but you get the idea.

Lmao best sig.

LASportsFan1996
04-02-2012, 05:08 PM
If They Were Good, They Would Get Free Agents, Simple As That. I Don't Think It Has Anything To Do With Canada, Because Toronto Is A Nice City.

SA5195
04-02-2012, 06:29 PM
Most of you are wrong about the taxes.

Canada and the USA have a tax treaty which prevents double (or even triple as some of you claim) taxation of professional athletes (and other occupations). You would be right if you were talking about the common laborer. Canadian teams have often given athletes a signing bonus to help mitigate rate differences. There's simply no handicap when it comes to taxation.

Most of you are also wrong about exposure.

If you're a good player, you're going to receive exposure no matter the city you play in. Ex. Rubio

If you have a winning franchise, you'll receive attention from all of the sports networks because that's how capitalism works.

Vince Carter signed gigantic deals with Nike as a Raptor. Same with Bosh. Even lesser known players like Fred Jones were able to capitalize on substantive deals while playing in Toronto. They weren't neglected in any way whatsoever.

However, I think there's far more competing interests in the US. I don't think companies will risk saturating the market by promoting more players than they have to. Therefore, there's a greater tendency for lesser known players to be promoted in Canada than they would have had they played in the U.S.
ex. Bosh, who despite his newly garnered fame, has yet to cash in on it. While Bargnani is quietly shooting commercials with Kobe and Lebron.

Then there's the weather and a bunch of other ******** excuses for you to spout your ******** American exceptionalism.

It's not the city. It's the franchise's culture.

Thank you. Alot of people here are responding with arrogant answers, with no backup of any sort.

JWO35
04-02-2012, 06:44 PM
If they still sucked...no, if they were decent possibly, since Toronto would be on par with NYC, LA, and Chi if they were part of the US.

KaganRS
04-02-2012, 06:55 PM
Toronto has the bomb dim sum !!

Sincerely , your ugly neighbor to the South..Windsor.

kingsdelez24
04-02-2012, 06:57 PM
The problem in a large part is the franchise, and I hate to say it because Toronto is a beautiful city with great fans.

They have made some of the worst trades in NBA history. Vince Carter for Erik and Aaron Williams? Really?

Rafael Araujo?

Just some straight up bone head plays by their GM (Babcock back in the day right?).

Lets not forget Brian Colangelo's awful moves... tj ford, rasho and hibbert for a washed up jermaine oneal? Or not taking beasley from the heat for bosh in the sign and trade

Trace
04-02-2012, 07:07 PM
Lets not forget Brian Colangelo's awful moves... tj ford, rasho and hibbert for a washed up jermaine oneal? Or not taking beasley from the heat for bosh in the sign and trade

lol most of the fan base did not want Beasley anyway and that pick would have been used on Batum not Hibbert. Sam pushed for the O'Neal trade according to an ex-exec which is why he got canned when they went 8-9.

dalton749
04-02-2012, 07:16 PM
If they still sucked...no, if they were decent possibly, since Toronto would be on par with NYC, LA, and Chi if they were part of the US.

how does one go about joining the pauly D fan club in your sig?

http://www.thevine.com.au/resources/imgdetail/200309100739_guido-beach-detail.jpg

NE Sportsfan
04-02-2012, 11:33 PM
they don't want to play there cuz of the euro

SpaceJamJordans
04-03-2012, 02:57 AM
they don't want to play there cuz of the euro

what.

naps
04-03-2012, 03:16 AM
It shouldn't play a role but in all fairness Toronto being the only foreign team in the league does play a role in free agents' decision, no matter how small it is. I know it's unfortunate but that's how it is.