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View Full Version : Do you agree with Charles Barkley? Do Thunder need low post scorer to win it all?



JordansBulls
03-30-2012, 05:00 PM
Do you agree with Charles Barkley? Do Thunder need low post scorer to win it all?

kjoke
03-30-2012, 05:03 PM
+1

TrueFan420
03-30-2012, 05:06 PM
i think they could do it without one but it would be a huge plus

Mr_Amaziing
03-30-2012, 05:10 PM
Maybe

Ibaka is improving alot with his offensive game so I think we can win with our team as it is

ghettosean
03-30-2012, 05:23 PM
i think they could do it without one but it would be a huge plus
This...

They can win it all this year without one but would be a huge bonus for them to have a low post threat.

tredigs
03-30-2012, 05:24 PM
Certain people will say they need a low post scorer until they prove they don't. Generally how these things play themselves out.

FraziersKnicks
03-30-2012, 05:41 PM
It would draw the defense away from the hugely perimeter orientated offense they have at the moment, but it doesn't seem to be affecting them at the moment.

Cal827
03-30-2012, 05:45 PM
I think so cause not only would the post scorer get the inside points and draw DTs opening up Westbrook, Durant, and 13eard more, but you also have to consider that they can cause the enemy team (mainly their interior scorers) to get into foul trouble. For example, it would be easier for Westbrook to drive the paint if Bynum has five fouls mainly thanks to a guy like Z-Bo.

I see a team like the Lakers ending their season because of that. They have two of the best post-scorers in the league, so as long as Kobe doesn't chuck the ball up 100 times..

Ezio
03-30-2012, 05:59 PM
Yes they do. A good perimeter defense could beat them in a 7 game series.

kjoke
03-30-2012, 06:02 PM
Although KD mught not have the physical tools to do so, but I would love for him to improve his post up game

Blitzbolt
03-30-2012, 06:05 PM
Is funny how does guys down low do nothing on the offensive end.But on Defense they are great especially Nick Collison they do alot of small things to help the team.

waveycrockett
03-30-2012, 06:10 PM
Ibaka is really improving in that area so no. If they feed him the ball next yr he could be 18 to 20 ppg

PHX2daDEATH
03-30-2012, 06:11 PM
they have everything BUT a low post scorer..it didn't stop the Mavs last year..why would it stop a much younger and athletic Thunder team? Westbrook looks like he finally gets it..his drive and dish to guys like Perkins and Ibaka should be enough for them to win it all..

shep33
03-30-2012, 06:14 PM
Best team out west (Spurs right there too).

Westbrook looks so much better now though. Guy is a beast. A lot depends on how he plays. During the WCF last year he shot 36% and had 5 dimes, but also 5 turnovers a game.

Guy is just too good now though, so I'm going to say that they don't need a low post threat.

Hellcrooner
03-30-2012, 06:15 PM
and how can they get one wihtout losing westbrook, durant or harden+ibaka?

Blitzbolt
03-30-2012, 06:18 PM
I agree the key is on Wesbricks brain.If he plays smart its over.

Crackadalic
03-30-2012, 06:18 PM
Didnt the Mavs win it all without one? It would be great but they don't have to have a low post scorer

naps
03-30-2012, 06:25 PM
I don't know. For OKC to win it all both none of their big three can have bad games. Durant, Westy, Harden ALL have to be at their best in a 7 game series against a team like Heat or Bulls.

TheNumber37
03-30-2012, 06:27 PM
yes, they need.Kevin love.
imagine Dirk on that team.... all drooling aside,.they could use a finisher at the 4 with a.decent midrange.game...
Amare, milsap, Nene, Josh Smith, even ryan Anderson

BradfordIsElite
03-30-2012, 06:29 PM
Only thing holding them back from running away with is this year.
The Lakers, Grizz and Spurs all have legitimate chances of reaching the finals, I believe.
LA should be overpowering every single team on any given night. Every team has weaknesses, they just have to improve on working around those issues.
Mike Brown also has to do a better job of keeping their rotations in check, especially in the later stages of each game.. last night was another clear example.
In the 1st half they were outplaying OKC and then suddenly crumbled in the 3rd quarter. That can be fixed and even though there's only 15 or so games left, they have time to work on many things.
Because of Bynum & Gasol..now with a solid PG, many more things have opened up. Even if they are struggling right now. Them and OKC are my favorites for the WCF.

kobebabe
03-30-2012, 06:40 PM
They could but then they would have to do away with say westbrook to even get a decent low post guy. so it equals out.
I can see them win it all without one though!

HouRealCoach
03-30-2012, 06:43 PM
Memphis has GREAT perimeter defense... Miami's even better

They wont win until they get one

LTBaByyy
03-30-2012, 06:52 PM
They wont win without one.

The last teams that have won this decade: Dirk, Gasol, Garnett, Oneal, Duncan

Detroit was the only one without one in the past decade, but their team is way different than the Pistons championship team

LTBaByyy
03-30-2012, 07:00 PM
Lebron, Wade

Marion, West

Kobe, Arest/Barnes

Deng, Brewer


Once all these teams lock them up its over! No inside game

LTBaByyy
03-30-2012, 07:01 PM
Ibaka is the same exact player as Perkins but with athleticism

They need a scoring PF or a scoring C

CoffeeJanitor
03-30-2012, 07:08 PM
Yes.

You're not gonna win in the playoffs just by jumpshooting.

Blitzbolt
03-30-2012, 07:09 PM
I remember last in the Grizzlies/Thunder series Shane Battier,Mike Conley and Tony Allen did a good job on KD,Westbrook and Harden.

But on offense both Tony Allen and Shane Battier miss all their open shots as the thunder pack the pain to stop ZBO and Mac Gasol.

So having a good perimeter defense is not enough they have to make shots on the other end.

waveycrockett
03-30-2012, 07:43 PM
Ibaka is the same exact player as Perkins but with athleticism

They need a scoring PF or a scoring C

What? They are nothing alike. Perkins isnt athletic at all and is slow as hell that makes them completely different players

KnicksorBust
03-30-2012, 10:11 PM
they have everything BUT a low post scorer..it didn't stop the Mavs last year..why would it stop a much younger and athletic Thunder team? Westbrook looks like he finally gets it..his drive and dish to guys like Perkins and Ibaka should be enough for them to win it all..

Didnt the Mavs win it all without one? It would be great but they don't have to have a low post scorer

wtf? Dirk doesn't have a post game? He backs undersized player down all the time.


and how can they get one wihtout losing westbrook, durant or harden+ibaka?

Is it really worth it to have 3 talented guard/wings and 0 two-way bigs? I've been in favor of them flipping Westbrook for a lonnnnng time.


Lebron, Wade

Marion, West

Kobe, Arest/Barnes

Deng, Brewer


Once all these teams lock them up its over! No inside game

A rare great post from LTBaByyy. The elite teams in the league can lock it down on the wing. Without someone to punish teams down low, it'll make it so much easier to game plan against them.

PatsSoxKnicks
03-30-2012, 10:16 PM
^Idk that didn't stop them from getting to the WCF last year and both Harden and Westy are better this year (Harden significantly better). I don't think there's any formula for what defines a championship team, I think you just need to have top line talent, which the Thunder have.

KnicksorBust
03-30-2012, 11:12 PM
^Idk that didn't stop them from getting to the WCF last year and both Harden and Westy are better this year (Harden significantly better). I don't think there's any formula for what defines a championship team, I think you just need to have top line talent, which the Thunder have.

They beat the Nuggets (Lawson-Gallo-Chandler-Nene?) and then squeeked by the Grizzlies. I'm not doing backflips for that. The gap between getting to the WCF and winning a chip is severely underrated.

PatsSoxKnicks
03-31-2012, 12:01 AM
They beat the Nuggets (Lawson-Gallo-Chandler-Nene?) and then squeeked by the Grizzlies. I'm not doing backflips for that. The gap between getting to the WCF and winning a chip is severely underrated.

And they were also right there in every one of their games against the Mavs last year. Let's not also forget they have the best SRS in the WC and the 3rd best SRS overall this year. Harden is also significantly better and Westbrook is also better. So is Durant. Ibaka is also hitting a nice % on his mid-range shots (http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2012&gp=0&mins=25) so you can't tell me that this Thunder team isn't improved and more equipped to go further.

I could understand the gap being larger if the Mavs blew the Thunder out in some of their games but in that series, the Thunder lost the last 3 games by 6 points, in OT and 4 points. That doesn't sound like that much of a gap.

If anything is going to hold back the Thunder, it's going to be the fact that their defensive efficiency is only 12th in the league. Not their offense, which is a league leading 1st in offensive efficiency and 1.7 points per 100 possessions better than the 2nd place team.

I think the biggest misconception about the NBA is that people don't realize talent generally wins. The Heat certainly have some "fit" issues but do you honestly think that'll hold them back from winning a title? Again, I don't think there's any formula for winning a championship. I think a team like the Thunder just needs to continue to do what they do on offense in the playoffs- that is attack the basket and get high % shots.

Bruno
03-31-2012, 12:20 AM
And they were also right there in every one of their games against the Mavs last year. Let's not also forget they have the best SRS in the WC and the 3rd best SRS overall this year. Harden is also significantly better and Westbrook is also better. So is Durant. Ibaka is also hitting a nice % on his mid-range shots (http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2012&gp=0&mins=25) so you can't tell me that this Thunder team isn't improved and more equipped to go further.

I could understand the gap being larger if the Mavs blew the Thunder out in some of their games but in that series, the Thunder lost the last 3 games by 6 points, in OT and 4 points. That doesn't sound like that much of a gap.

If anything is going to hold back the Thunder, it's going to be the fact that their defensive efficiency is only 12th in the league. Not their offense, which is a league leading 1st in offensive efficiency and 1.7 points per 100 possessions better than the 2nd place team.

I think the biggest misconception about the NBA is that people don't realize talent generally wins. The Heat certainly have some "fit" issues but do you honestly think that'll hold them back from winning a title? Again, I don't think there's any formula for winning a championship. I think a team like the Thunder just needs to continue to do what they do on offense in the playoffs- that is attack the basket and get high % shots.

Question being, how long can their front office keep them together? Things are going to get interesting in OKC after the 2013-2014 season, the year Harden and Ibaka become unrestricted free agents. WB, Harden, and Ibaka are all still on their rookie deals. OKC won't be able to keep all three along with Durants big contract, and Perkins contract. They'll be able to keep Durant/WB together for years, so long as they want to stay, but the cast around that pair will change after 2014, they can't afford all five of them, somebody's gone have to go, and Perkins will be hard to trade.

Bruno
03-31-2012, 12:23 AM
I think they can. teams that win it all who don't have low post scorers, usually have bigs who can play lock down D. they fit that blueprint. they might not kill you on the block, but you won't kill them either. at least not for four games. who knows.

mavwar53
03-31-2012, 12:25 AM
It would be nice but they are my choice to win it all this year, so its pretty obvious what I think of this statement by Sir Charles.

Da Knicks
03-31-2012, 12:35 AM
Didnt the Mavs win it all without one? It would be great but they don't have to have a low post scorer

I thought Dirk played for them?

I see the spurs knocking them out, I think they are the heat from the west. Anything can happen but playoff time you need a post up player who commands double teams because the game slows down so much...

Raph12
03-31-2012, 03:28 AM
They need a low-post scorer to be the favs, they can win as is, but a lot of stuff would have to go right...

TheMagicAct24
03-31-2012, 04:22 AM
Sorry, double post

TheMagicAct24
03-31-2012, 04:25 AM
I, too think them having a low post scorer would put them over the top every year in the west. Not to mention it would make KD and Westbrook job a lot easier bcuz their would be way more room to really attack a defense.

Sure they can win as currently constructed, but their defense is gonna have to get a lot better bcuz every game in the playoffs won't be a track meet meaning they're gonna have to play in half-court sets. I see the Lakers, Spurs, even the Grizz (once Z-Bo and Marc get their rhythm) taking them out.

If for instance they get a guy like Nene, D12, Bynum, Z-Bo, or even Scola whose good down low they could be a nightmare. Then again Dallas won last year without a low post scorer other than Dirk. Its just that which ever team gets hot at the right time has won.

5ass
03-31-2012, 04:39 AM
This is exactly why i cant believe the thunder didnt offer Harden+Ibaka for Dwight. Dwight can put up points as efficiently as Harden and rebound and defend better than Ibaka. If they could then solidify the bench with a few FA signings they wouldve been by far the best team. They would have the 3 pt shooting, defense, perimeter scorers, low post threat, ect. On paper, the perfect team, aside from a weakish bench, but that doesnt matter much in the play offs if every one is healthy.

The thunder dont NEED a low post scorer, they could win a championship as is, but their chances would greatly improve with a low post presence. That team has a PG-SG-SF doing all the scoring.

5ass
03-31-2012, 04:42 AM
I think they can. teams that win it all who don't have low post scorers, usually have bigs who can play lock down D. they fit that blueprint. they might not kill you on the block, but you won't kill them either. at least not for four games. who knows.

Actually, this goes against what would be expected but I've seen the Thunder frontline of Ibaka and Perk get torched a lot of times this season.

dgreat5000
03-31-2012, 06:58 AM
Think it would help at least to have a low post scorer off bench.

tcav701
03-31-2012, 09:02 AM
Can the Heat win it all with 0 production from the Center spot and an offense that can be shut down in the half court?

Can the Bulls win it all with only 1 player they can count on offensively?

Can the Knicks win it all when they cant decide who they want on the floor?

Can the Celtics/Spurs win it all with PFs playing the Center position?

Can the Lakers win it all with Kobe shooting the ball 25-30 times a game?


See what I'm doing...they beat the Heat, they beat LA and they can beat Chicago tomorrow.

Why do some people think they cant do the same in the playoffs?

Wolfman01
03-31-2012, 02:42 PM
I believe they do need a low post player to win it all. The Thunder should of traded James Harden and Serge Ibaka for Dwight Howard when the Magic asked the Thunder for those two players for Dwight Howard. I would say it's a good trade and the Thunder ony lose their shooting guard starter. Upgrade from Ibaka to Howard at center.

PG-Russell Westbrook
SG-Thabo Selefosha
SF-Kevin Durant
PF-Kendrick Perkins
C-Dwight Howard

Birdmannn
03-31-2012, 07:26 PM
I believe they do need a low post player to win it all. The Thunder should of traded James Harden and Serge Ibaka for Dwight Howard when the Magic asked the Thunder for those two players for Dwight Howard. I would say it's a good trade and the Thunder ony lose their shooting guard starter. Upgrade from Ibaka to Howard at center.

PG-Russell Westbrook
SG-Thabo Selefosha
SF-Kevin Durant
PF-Kendrick Perkins
C-Dwight Howard

How often do you watch the Thunder ?

TubbyBucket
04-01-2012, 12:36 PM
Is it really worth it to have 3 talented guard/wings and 0 two-way bigs? I've been in favor of them flipping Westbrook for a lonnnnng time.

Wondering who you would trade him for.

PhillyFaninLA
04-01-2012, 12:56 PM
i think they could do it without one but it would be a huge plus

This is pretty much what I was coming in to say.

The Thunder are the best team in the west and have a bright future. I don't think you need to be as complete of a team as you used to have to be to win a title.

Bruno
04-01-2012, 03:34 PM
Actually, this goes against what would be expected but I've seen the Thunder frontline of Ibaka and Perk get torched a lot of times this season.

remember any big examples?

JasonJohnHorn
04-01-2012, 06:39 PM
Jordan and the Bull got it done without a low-post scorer... i mean jordan would post up himself, but they didnt have a PF or C that could really post up.

JordansBulls
04-02-2012, 08:46 AM
Jordan and the Bull got it done without a low-post scorer... i mean jordan would post up himself, but they didnt have a PF or C that could really post up.

True, but that was when the league was dominated by bigs in there primes, now the only big in his prime is Dwight Howard. So I don't think post scoring is all that important now because there the bigs in the league now that are in there primes.

Rockwilderz
04-02-2012, 02:08 PM
Maybe..

having a post up player is good but this will take away Durant, Westbrook and Hardens game which is mostly a slasher/one on one type of players.

I think a big man that can spot up can make shots mid range like Nowitzki, K Love, Bosh type of player can be a big help for the team. It helps a lot to take the opposing teams big man away from the driving lane.

Post player tends to clog the driving lanes which will make it much much harder for those guys to operate.