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View Full Version : Are Heat without Lebron as good as the Bulls without Rose?



FuttinmyBuck
03-30-2012, 08:27 AM
If lebron james and Derrick rose were suspended from the league for a year after being convicted of fighting rabbits in their basements, and the heat and bulls couldnt replace them and had to play an entire season without them, which team would have the better regular season record? and who would go deeper in the playoffs?

In 2009, the Wade led miami heat won 47 games and finished 3rd in the southwest division

wade led the team with 26ppg, 4 boards,1block, 5 assists and nearly 2 steals

and lost 4-1 to Boston in the first round

his #2 was beasley who averaged 14,6 boards and a steal

chris bosh's last time as a #1 for a full season: 33 wins, 49 losses

averaging 22, 10, 2.5 assists and a block

i think they would be a capable duo, but i dont think they would be better regular season wise in terms of record versus a bulls team without rose for a year

but i think the heat would go farther in the playoffs because they would still have 1 superstar in wade

who do you think would win more in the regular season? who would go farther in the playoffs?

Becks2307
03-30-2012, 08:34 AM
This rabbit fighting ring has got to stop!

LAKobeBryant
03-30-2012, 08:44 AM
I hate these "what of" threads

FuttinmyBuck
03-30-2012, 08:55 AM
I hate these "what of" threads

But you love postpadding, so you opened the thread anyway

str8balla4life
03-30-2012, 09:01 AM
no they are not better than chicago without lebron.in fact i question if they are better than the bulls with lebron.the bulls are tops in every statistical catagory for a reason .miami cant measure up to the depth that the bulls have .miami cant measure up to the team the bulls have .miami certanly cant match up to the coach that chicago has with records of fastest to 100 wins and over 85 games without loosing back to backs is remarkable .if this doesnt woo you into the chicago way than i understand .thats why we play the games but mark my words that chicago wont b the same team miami got passed lastyear .none of those games were won easily .miami pretty much the same team .the bulls have gotten bigger faster stronger and are gunning for miami. bulls in 6

uprightciti
03-30-2012, 09:03 AM
i think its becoming very obvious that d-rose is not as critical as we thought
he is a great player but...not an mvp

FuttinmyBuck
03-30-2012, 09:07 AM
i think its becoming very obvious that d-rose is not as critical as we thought
he is a great player but...not an mvp

oh wait...your a knicks fan, nvm

Raps08-09 Champ
03-30-2012, 09:18 AM
Who's dupe is this?

RDBK514
03-30-2012, 09:29 AM
The Heat would not be THAT bad but the Bulls would be the much better team in my opinion. The Heat still have Wade and Bosh which are a great duo and Bosh can step up and score more if need be. Their only problem would be the fact that most of their players are washed up old players and each of them would have to take a more important role and play more minutes. The Bulls are pretty deep team. Watson and John Lucas III have shown they can be very serviceable. There defense is phenomenal even without Rose. The Heat would suffer because Lebron is a great defender who can basically guard all 5 positions (not at once obviously) as they need him too.

BearsBullsSox
03-30-2012, 09:41 AM
It's ridiculous that prior to this season EVERYONE bragged and said that the Miami Heat had become a deeper more improved team from last year with their offseason additions. But now in the midst of the season, people are saying that this same improved Heat team wouldnt win more games in a full season without Lebron than a Bulls team without Rose would? People flip flop wayyyy too much when discussing Bulls-Heat topics.

IndyRealist
03-30-2012, 09:48 AM
I guess I'm the only one that thinks the Heat would be fine. Probably still championship level with the mess the rest of the league is. Their 3rd SF is James Jones, so they can do an off/def matchup switch between Shane Battier and Jones. That's about the only position the CAN lose a player, because if anyone else goes down there's not a good 3rd stringer who can step into major minutes.

joycefwcg
03-30-2012, 09:50 AM
http://www.vvio.info/jpg1It's ridiculous that prior to this season EVERYONE bragged and said that the Miami Heat had become a deeper more improved team from last year with their offseason additions. But now in the midst of the season, people are saying that this same improved Heat team wouldnt win more games in a full season without Lebron than a Bulls team without Rose would? People flip flop wayyyy too much when discussing Bulls-Heat topics.

people are saying that this same improved Heat team wouldnt win more games in a full season without Lebron

justinnum1
03-30-2012, 09:53 AM
heat would still be contenders

the bulls; not so much

oak2455
03-30-2012, 09:57 AM
Guess the op is at grandmas house ...... Dupe account !!!!!!

oak2455
03-30-2012, 09:57 AM
heat would still be contenders

the hulls; not so much

Are the Hulls good???;)

justinnum1
03-30-2012, 09:58 AM
Are the Hulls good???;)

:p

oak2455
03-30-2012, 10:00 AM
:p

Dude I miss spell all the time.... It's all good... Let's play who's the dupe account(op)

bucketss
03-30-2012, 10:03 AM
If lebron james and Derrick rose were suspended from the league for a year after being convicted of fighting rabbits in their basements, and the heat and bulls couldnt replace them and had to play an entire season without them, which team would have the better regular season record? and who would go deeper in the playoffs?

In 2009, the Wade led miami heat won 47 games and finished 3rd in the southwest division

wade led the team with 26ppg, 4 boards,1block, 5 assists and nearly 2 steals

and lost 4-1 to Boston in the first round

his #2 was beasley who averaged 14,6 boards and a steal

chris bosh's last time as a #1 for a full season: 33 wins, 49 losses

averaging 22, 10, 2.5 assists and a block

i think they would be a capable duo, but i dont think they would be better regular season wise in terms of record versus a bulls team without rose for a year

but i think the heat would go farther in the playoffs because they would still have 1 superstar in wade

who do you think would win more in the regular season? who would go farther in the playoffs?

btw bosh won 40 games his last time he was #1 not 33

LAKobeBryant
03-30-2012, 10:03 AM
But you love postpadding, so you opened the thread anyway

He asked a what if question and I replied with my opinion

BearsBullsSox
03-30-2012, 10:03 AM
i think its becoming very obvious that d-rose is not as critical as we thought
he is a great player but...not an mvp

You cant have it both ways, Joakim Noah and Carlos Boozer missed 57 combined games last year and the Bulls got no production out of their 2 guard. Bulls played 4 on 5 ball last year often times with bench players filling in for starters. And with a starting lineup consisting of a non-existant SG and a banged up frontcourt they STILL won 62 games. So I guess by your logic no one on the Bulls is critical then since they always win games without someone playing. I dont remember Boozer or Noah getting discredited last year when the Bulls were winning without them. But only Rose does HMMM.

NYKnickFanatic
03-30-2012, 10:05 AM
Who's dupe is this?

:clap:Obviously a dupe, people dont realize.

oak2455
03-30-2012, 10:06 AM
I guess this is I am banned from PSD thread....

oak2455
03-30-2012, 10:07 AM
:clap:Obviously a dupe, people dont realize.

You're sig is pretty damn cool

1-800-STFU
03-30-2012, 10:10 AM
Are the Knicks without Melo as good as Dallas without Dirk?

1-800-STFU
03-30-2012, 10:11 AM
Are the Kings without Evans as good as Cleveland without Kyrie?

1-800-STFU
03-30-2012, 10:12 AM
Is Charlotte without Kemba Walker as good as Kentucky?

1-800-STFU
03-30-2012, 10:13 AM
Are the Clippers without Blake Griffin and Chris Paul as good as Minnesota without Love and Rubio?

1-800-STFU
03-30-2012, 10:13 AM
Is coffee without flavored creamer as good as broccoli without cheese?

BearsBullsSox
03-30-2012, 10:14 AM
Is planet earth the same without DJ Khaled?

1-800-STFU
03-30-2012, 10:16 AM
Is planet earth the same without DJ Khaled?

You didn't compare it to something else you dunderhead

LGhost
03-30-2012, 10:16 AM
Is coffee without flavored creamer as good as broccoli without cheese?

Each of these questions deserves it owns thread but mainly this one...

The dupe is the guy who created a thread asking what to change his name to, BigHarryPenis or something like that, otherwise it was that Justin guy

justinnum1
03-30-2012, 11:16 AM
Obvious dup

Heediot
03-30-2012, 11:29 AM
Chicago = Great system
Miami = Great players

I think Miami will be hurt more with the loss of James.

Kyben36
03-30-2012, 11:49 AM
heat were making the playoffs without James and with wade, now wade at least has bosh.

Rose would be a huge loss to the bulls IMO, we would lake a finisher which you cant win in this league without one. we would still be a good team, but we would have nobody to take over at the end of games.

Geek
03-30-2012, 11:50 AM
The heat would still have Bosh and Wade.

The bulls will have no one. Boozer and Noah is all they would have. They wouldn't have a good enough PG.

rapjuicer06
03-30-2012, 11:54 AM
How about this...

Do the Magic hurt more with out Dwight than the Bulls with out Rose? Or the Heat with out James?

justinnum1
03-30-2012, 11:56 AM
bulls without rose would be like philly. They would probably lose in 5 or 6 in the first round

LGhost
03-30-2012, 12:47 PM
Bulls suck without Rose and that is a fact, just look at the ECF last year...?

They are something like 13-4 without him so this definitely goes to the 2012 Wade powered Heat without Lebron.

The Bulls have no true second option with Rose and we all know that team basketball and different players showing up on any given night is not a recipe for winning. You gots to have stars or else you will settle with crap records like 13-4...

Rndy
03-30-2012, 12:49 PM
I don't know Miami does has 3 pretty good backup SF in Battier, Miller, and Jones I don't think it would be as bad as people would make it.

Rndy
03-30-2012, 12:50 PM
bulls without rose would be like philly. They would probably lose in 5 or 6 in the first round

Agreed anyone who is actually watching Chicago right now if they aren't shooting well there offense is non existent they have two PG in Watson and JL3 who can't even do a pick and roll. There are no easy buckets without Rose.

rapjuicer06
03-30-2012, 12:59 PM
Chalmer/Wade/Battier/Bosh/Anthony is still a top 3 team in the East

Cfrey
03-30-2012, 01:16 PM
lol..............




this thread would be right if it was the Heat without Wade.. then yeah the Heat would be better than the bulls

Cal827
03-30-2012, 01:35 PM
Hai Reke Havoc :D

Raph12
03-30-2012, 02:02 PM
The Bulls win more during the season and the Heat win more during the playoffs...

justinnum1
03-30-2012, 02:05 PM
Bosh has shown he can be a really good 2nd option when bron or wade is out.

KB-Pau-DH2012
03-30-2012, 02:14 PM
The OP has been banned after just 4 posts, but yet this thread is still open?

Funny how things work on ProSportsDaily! :eyebrow:

Chronz
03-30-2012, 03:33 PM
Wade was declining before Bron showed up tho, at least slightly. You have to figure the Heat landing Bron was the best thing for his longevity.

JordansBulls
03-30-2012, 04:48 PM
i think its becoming very obvious that d-rose is not as critical as we thought
he is a great player but...not an mvp

Except the Heat would still be contenders without Lebron as Wade has already proven to be able to lead a team as the man and win a title.

NoahH
03-30-2012, 06:26 PM
Bulls would be much better. Haven't we seen the Bullls not struggle too much without DRose

willabeast77
03-30-2012, 06:27 PM
Both teams would still be playoff team. They would have done changes at the beginning of the season- other guys would just need to step up. The coaching would still be solid.

But I also find it a little funny how good the Bulls have been without Rose so far. I remember last year when Miami beat them in the ECF, Bulls fans claimed, "it's a one man team, it's only Rose, they would completely be awful without him" along with other things. Even though this is a slightly different Bulls team.

justinnum1
03-30-2012, 06:39 PM
John (Chicago)

Nick with the way Thibs pushes the team to perform their best each game as if it were a playoff game. How will they be able to hit the next gear as most playoff teams tend to do come playoff time?
Nick Friedell (2:16 PM)

Good question -- I'm not sure the Bulls have another gear to hit. They play as hard as they can every single night. They absolutely can win it all this season -- but teams like Miami have another gear they can rely on. The Bulls really don't because Thibs maximizes his roster every night. It's a credit to his system, but it's also a reason Bulls fans should worry heading into a potential rematch with Miami.

I agree with this bulls beat writer. Even without rose, they play so hard every night. They might even be able to get into the 2nd round without rose, there defense is really impressive

smiddy012
03-30-2012, 06:40 PM
The Bulls win more during the season and the Heat win more during the playoffs...

Good answer!

A lot of posters here are so off topic, acting like they know everything too...

Bulls don't even have a true second option, let alone a first without Rose. Meanwhile Wade and Bosh are both solid 1st and 2nd options... Bulls team would be deeper, the Heat would be better when it matters most. Then again its hard to blame a lot of the casual Heat fans in this thread for throwing their team under the bus when we got Turdius the Great on our side, whom all fans overrate except the ones who actually get to consistently watch him play. It's closer than almost everyone here is claiming. The best way to sum it up though would be the way Raph did.

theheatles
03-30-2012, 06:43 PM
The Bulls win More regular season Games

The Heat go farther in the Playoffs


...all are pretty acceptable except bulls going further in the playoffs, that's just silly

naps
03-30-2012, 06:49 PM
No, the Bulls are the best team this planet has ever seen.

valade16
03-30-2012, 06:51 PM
Just to point out: the 1990s Bulls went to the 2nd round of the playoffs (and were really close to the ECFs) without Jordan, did that mean that Michael Jordan was not an MVP?

BALLER R
03-30-2012, 06:54 PM
i think its becoming very obvious that d-rose is not as critical as we thought
he is a great player but...not an mvp

I think what you should say is that the bulls are overall a better team than you thought.

effen5
03-30-2012, 07:23 PM
We obviously have another gear since rose and rip hasn't played

Bulls_fan90
03-30-2012, 07:52 PM
John Lucas.

northsid3r
03-31-2012, 09:54 AM
D. Rose is very important to the bulls He's the best player on the team, but the Bulls have been able to win games because of a very good supporting cast and a good coach.
How would the Heat do without Lebron? I don't think they would be as good because he is important to the Heat and a great player (gotta give credit when credit is due.) However, don't tell me that Rose did not deserve the MVP last year, he carried his team to the best record in the NBA.

HouRealCoach
03-31-2012, 10:12 AM
They re MUCH better than Chicagowithout Rose because they have a legit 1-2 punch

Team*Chicago
03-31-2012, 10:18 AM
i think its becoming very obvious that d-rose is not as critical as we thought
he is a great player but...not an mvp

:facepalm: One of you knicks fans said the Bulls were nothing without Rose now all of a sudden after going 14-5 without Rose he becomes uncritical. This is not the LeBronless Cavaliers, the Bulls has the best FO in the entire league the didn't just build this team exculsively around Rose because this team been building way before Rose got here, they builded it off of the original players that was drafted by the team like Noah and Deng; to bad the Knicks suck at that.


bulls without rose would be like philly. They would probably lose in 5 or 6 in the first round

:facepalm: The Roseless Bulls are beyond 76ers. To bad that happen to the heat when they went up against the Celticsin the playoffs before the big FA fenzy in 2010.

ichitownclowni
03-31-2012, 10:26 AM
heat would still be contenders

the bulls; not so much

We are contending now.

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 10:37 AM
We are contending now.

Bulls without rose are not contenders.

You guys will probably have the best record again, but that doesn't mean much to me.

northsid3r
03-31-2012, 10:42 AM
[QUOTE=justinnum1;21559180]Bulls without rose are not contenders.

I agree. Heat without Lebron wouldn't be title contenders either.

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 10:45 AM
[QUOTE=justinnum1;21559180]Bulls without rose are not contenders.

I agree. Heat without Lebron wouldn't be title contenders either.

And i would disagree there. But i wouldn't expect any bulls fan to acknowledge that

akagiredsuns
03-31-2012, 10:52 AM
heat would still be contenders

the bulls; not so much


And there you have the clear "unbiased" opinion of justin. :laugh2:

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 10:56 AM
Heat still have a #1 option that can take over a series at any moment, what do the bulls have? And no lucas is not considered someone that can take over a series:laugh:

Bosh would be the #1 option on that bulls team without rose...

Bulls without rose are just like philly, they wouldn't get past the first round. The heat without lebron would probably make it to the ECF.

ichitownclowni
03-31-2012, 11:00 AM
Heat still have a #1 option that can take over a series at any moment, what do the bulls have? And no lucas is not considered someone that can take over a series:laugh:

Bosh would be the #1 option on that bulls team without rose...

Bulls without rose are just like philly, they wouldn't get past the first round. The heat without lebron would probably make it to the ECF.

Bosh is not on the Bulls? The Heat would not be Title Contenders either. And Deng could take over a series. Just as Bosh could

jp611
03-31-2012, 11:28 AM
As scary good as the Bulls defense was last season, it's even better this season


• Chicago is ridiculous. The Bulls through 49 games this season had allowed 140 corner-three attempts. The Sixers, through that same stretch, had allowed the second-fewest — 192. The gap between Chicago and Philly is the equivalent of the gap between the Sixers and the league average for corner-three attempts allowed. Chicago opponents are attempting just 2.85 corner threes per game; the average team attempts about five per game.

Guess who yielded the fewest corner-three attempts last season? The Bulls, with a total of 305, or about 3.8 per game. They have shaved a full attempt off that number this season. Tom Thibodeau is scary.

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/03/29/why-corner-threes-matter-for-defenses/

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 11:44 AM
Heat still have a #1 option that can take over a series at any moment, what do the bulls have? And no lucas is not considered someone that can take over a series:laugh:

Bosh would be the #1 option on that bulls team without rose...

Bulls without rose are just like philly, they wouldn't get past the first round. The heat without lebron would probably make it to the ECF.

Orlando Magic would own the Heat and win in 5 games max and so would the Celtics and possible even the Knicks with the way they have been playing lately. Oh and didn't the Roseless Bulls beat the Heat WITH Lebron so I imagine they could also beat them without him even easier.

The only team I could see the Heat winning a playoff series against, without Lebron, would be the Sixers and possibly Atlanta. Thats it. Bulls have beaten the Magic, Boston, Atlanta, Heat and Sixers without Rose already so what makes you believe they couldn't do it during the playoffs Justin? Oh and I think all those games they were missing Rip as well..

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 11:48 AM
And if the heat won in 7, then yea, i would be pretty concerned. I do agree the bull d has improved, but they actually rank below miami in opponent fg%.

Actually, miami's d has improved more from last season than the bulls have.

http://www.hoopdata.com/teamdefstats.aspx?yr=2011&type=pg
http://www.hoopdata.com/teamdefstats.aspx?yr=2012&type=pg

Miami and chicago have nearly identical def efficiency this season.

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 11:49 AM
Orlando Magic would own the Heat and win in 5 games max and so would the Celtics and possible even the Knicks with the way they have been playing lately. Oh and didn't the Roseless Bulls beat the Heat WITH Lebron so I imagine they could also beat them without him even easier.

The only team I could see the Heat winning a playoff series against, without Lebron, would be the Sixers and possibly Atlanta. Thats it. Bulls have beaten the Magic, Boston, Atlanta, Heat and Sixers without Rose already so what makes you believe they couldn't do it during the playoffs Justin? Oh and I think all those games they were missing Rip as well..

Bulls would not beat any of those teams in the playoffs without rose. If you want to believe otherwise be my guest, i do find it funny that you are using 1 game samples. I dont think anyone is worried about rip, ****, most people forgot he even plays anymore he's constantly injured. If he makes it though the playoffs i would be shocked. That dude is made of glass.

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 11:54 AM
Bulls are a likely better team without Rose than Miami is without Lebron in the regular season.

Miami is likely a better team without Lebron than Chicago is without Rose is the post-season.

Bosh and Wade are better than any player on the Bulls besides Rose. Wade is arguably better than Rose.

All that said the Bulls defense has proven capable of shutting down Wade at will. The hypothetical edge goes to Miami in the playoffs, but it's not that clear cut when you actually think about it. If you've watched the Heat vs Bulls games its hard to envision the Bulls not shutting down one of Wade or Bosh when they have done it consistently, even when Bosh and Wade have had the game's best player to take the defense's attention away them.

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 11:55 AM
And if the heat won in 7, then yea, i would be pretty concerned. I do agree the bull d has improved, but they actually rank below miami in opponent fg%.

Actually, miami's d has improved more from last season than the bulls have.

http://www.hoopdata.com/teamdefstats.aspx?yr=2011&type=pg
http://www.hoopdata.com/teamdefstats.aspx?yr=2012&type=pg

Miami and chicago have nearly identical def efficiency this season.

Lebron's your best defensive player by miles. Rose isn't even our best defensive guard......... Bulls would CLEARLY have the better defense with a Lebronless Miami.

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 11:56 AM
Bulls would not beat any of those teams in the playoffs without rose. If you want to believe otherwise be my guest, i do find it funny that you are using 1 game samples. I dont think anyone is worried about rip, ****, most people forgot he even plays anymore he's constantly injured. If he makes it though the playoffs i would be shocked. That dude is made of glass.

If you truly believe the Heat would be better than Chicago, minus the two players, the you can certainly be my guest as well..

See what I did there? :laugh2:

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 11:57 AM
Lebron's your best defensive player by miles. Rose isn't even our best defensive guard......... Bulls would CLEARLY have the better defense with a Lebronless Miami.

That i agree with.

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 11:58 AM
Bulls would not beat any of those teams in the playoffs without rose. If you want to believe otherwise be my guest, i do find it funny that you are using 1 game samples. I dont think anyone is worried about rip, ****, most people forgot he even plays anymore he's constantly injured. If he makes it though the playoffs i would be shocked. That dude is made of glass.

Ok you officially lack credentials.

Bulls without Rose and Miami without Lebron are still probably the best two teams in the East.

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 12:03 PM
And the reason I used 1 game samples Justin is because that's all the proof I can go by. Those are facts.. we've beaten those teams without Rose and Rip, so I imagine it's possible Bulls could do it again in the playoffs.

Bulls have the defense to win playoff series, whereas the Heat would be losing their best defensive player and playmaker. Bulls would shut down the Heat completely without Lebron.

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 12:03 PM
Orlando Magic would own the Heat and win in 5 games max and so would the Celtics and possible even the Knicks with the way they have been playing lately. Oh and didn't the Roseless Bulls beat the Heat WITH Lebron so I imagine they could also beat them without him even easier.

The first bolded is just ******** and the second is just ******** reasoning. Do you not remember when Chicago swempt Miami last regular season? Or was it such a tramatic experience in the playoffs that you absolutely forgot?

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 12:06 PM
And the reason I used 1 game samples Justin is because that's all the proof I can go by. Those are facts.. we've beaten those teams without Rose and Rip, so I imagine it's possible Bulls could do it again in the playoffs.

Bulls have the defense to win playoff series, whereas the Heat would be losing their best defensive player and playmaker. Bulls would shut down the Heat completely without Lebron.

Dont go off 1 games, in fact dont go off regular season games. Heat arent giving it 100% every night, its pathetic, i know, but it is what it is. Last year showed the regular season means absolutely nothing, and the heat know this. All we know is both teams improved over last year. And its the bulls goal this season to get past miami, whereas its miami's goal to win the ring.

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 12:06 PM
The first bolded is just ******** and the second is just ******** reasoning.

please explain.. have the Knicks not been playing well lately?? So a Heat team starting Chalmers, Wade, Battier, Bosh and Joel Anthony is better than what the Knicks have? The Knicks are actually playing defense now.. also you don't think the battle tested Celtics could win a series against a Heat team minus Lebron??

And was I lying about the Bulls beating the Heat without Rose?? They did, so why is it hard to assume they could beat them again in a playoff series especially if Lebron isn't playing??

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 12:08 PM
And the reason I used 1 game samples Justin is because that's all the proof I can go by. Those are facts.. we've beaten those teams without Rose and Rip, so I imagine it's possible Bulls could do it again in the playoffs.

Bulls have the defense to win playoff series, whereas the Heat would be losing their best defensive player and playmaker. Bulls would shut down the Heat completely without Lebron.

The Bulls don't even have a 2nd ****ing option. Meanwhile Miami would have Wade, who's at the very same level Rose is if not higher, and then they got Bosh who is EASILY better than every Bulls player not named Rose.

Youre being quite the homer right now. And justin is compensating by being an ultra-homer too.

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 12:09 PM
Are you guys oblivious to the impact Lebron James has on the Heat?? He was on pace to bash the highest PER EVER for a season, before he cooled off with some injuries. Look at the Heat bench and tell me they aren't a 1st round bust.

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 12:11 PM
Are you guys oblivious to the impact Lebron James has on the Heat?? He was on pace to bash the highest PER EVER for a season, before he cooled off with some injuries. Look at the Heat bench and tell me they aren't a 1st round bust.

:facepalm: wade-bosh+whoever else on miami is enough to get to the ecf.

But to say first round bust?:laugh2::rolleyes:

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 12:12 PM
please explain.. have the Knicks not been playing well lately?? So a Heat team starting Chalmers, Wade, Battier, Bosh and Joel Anthony is better than what the Knicks have? The Knicks are actually playing defense now.. also you don't think the battle tested Celtics could win a series against a Heat team minus Lebron??

And was I lying about the Bulls beating the Heat without Rose?? They did, so why is it hard to assume they could beat them again in a playoff series especially if Lebron isn't playing??

Much of my reasoning is previously stated the last dozen posts.

As for your second paragraph you must have the memory of a chicklet or some ****. That's just an extremely poor agrument, the claim that since we beat them in the regular season we can beat them in the playoffs. I definitely think we could beat them in the playoffs in this hypothetical, but your reasoning is extremely flawed, especially when you consider that we swept them in the regular season last year.

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 12:14 PM
Are you guys oblivious to the impact Lebron James has on the Heat?? He was on pace to bash the highest PER EVER for a season, before he cooled off with some injuries. Look at the Heat bench and tell me they aren't a 1st round bust.

Bosh + Wade are better than ANYONE on the Bulls not named Rose by a VERY MEASURABLE margin. Anyone who thinks this hypothetical series wouldn't be close is a homer.

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 12:14 PM
The Bulls don't even have a 2nd ****ing option. Meanwhile Miami would have Wade, who's at the very same level Rose is if not higher, and then they got Bosh who is EASILY better than every Bulls player not named Rose.

Youre being quite the homer right now. And justin is compensating by being an ultra-homer too.

And you are being a naive Bulls fan. I never said I guaranteed the Bulls would make it to the ECF or even think they would, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. My whole assumption is that the Bulls have a strong enough defense to carry them and they still have enough weapons and are unselfish enough to win a few playoff series. The Heat have no bench and without Lebron and 2 of their starters would have PERs under 10!!!!

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 12:18 PM
:facepalm: wade-bosh+whoever else on miami is enough to get to the ecf.

But to say first round bust?:laugh2::rolleyes:

How far has Wade gone in the playoffs without Lebron the past 5 years?? Wade + Bosh plus the rest of the garbage the Heat have are definitely NOT enough to get to the ECF. How can people say I'm the homer when you post **** like this?? :confused::confused:

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 12:19 PM
And the reason I used 1 game samples Justin is because that's all the proof I can go by. Those are facts.. we've beaten those teams without Rose and Rip, so I imagine it's possible Bulls could do it again in the playoffs.

Bulls have the defense to win playoff series, whereas the Heat would be losing their best defensive player and playmaker. Bulls would shut down the Heat completely without Lebron.

When one team "shuts down" another team, this implies ownage or domination.

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 12:25 PM
When one team "shuts down" another team, this implies ownage or domination.

I believe they would shut them down offensively. The Heat rely so much on creating TOs and running in the open court and getting easy buckets. How many Wade to Lebron and vise versa highlights have you seen? You think Battier could do those same things?? Lebron creates so many mismatches it's not even funny! Do you not comprehend that Lebron James leads the Heat in PTS, ASTS, AND REBS!!! Take a player like that off and they surely will drop a few levels (that one was for you Justin lol)

He affects the Heat offensively AND defensively. They Bulls defense is so good even without Rose I do believe that they could stop the high scoring of the Heat if Lebron is not playing. You are acting like I'm saying these things WITH Lebron but I'm not.

raiderfaninTX
03-31-2012, 12:27 PM
I think heat fans forgot how they played when wade was by himself.

Playoff team yes, Finals team NO

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 12:32 PM
I believe they would shut them down offensively. The Heat rely so much on creating TOs and running in the open court and getting easy buckets. How many Wade to Lebron and vise versa highlights have you seen? You think Battier could do those same things?? Lebron creates so many mismatches it's not even funny! Do you not comprehend that Lebron James leads the Heat in PTS, ASTS, AND REBS!!! Take a player like that off and they surely will drop a few levels (that one was for you Justin lol)

He affects the Heat offensively AND defensively. They Bulls defense is so good even without Rose I do believe that they could stop the high scoring of the Heat if Lebron is not playing. You are acting like I'm saying these things WITH Lebron but I'm not.

It would be a close series in this hypothetical. The Bulls and Heat would still both likely be the best two teams in the East in this hypothetical. Saying one would get dominated by the other or that one has no chance at getting to the ECF is lacking in logic.

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 12:33 PM
Much of my reasoning is previously stated the last dozen posts.

As for your second paragraph you must have the memory of a chicklet or some ****. That's just an extremely poor agrument, the claim that since we beat them in the regular season we can beat them in the playoffs. I definitely think we could beat them in the playoffs in this hypothetical, but your reasoning is extremely flawed, especially when you consider that we swept them in the regular season last year.

Tell me why it's so flawed unbiased Bulls fan?? Was Rose completely healthy last year during that series?? Was Boozer healthy?? Did the Bulls get blown out? Did the Bulls not have a chance to win that series? If you look at history instead of just one sample you will learn that regular season does have some bearing in the playoffs. Don't try to be so unbiased here in the NBA forum. I am making assumptions based on experiences and stuff that has transpired during the season. What have I said that is so homerish?

jp611
03-31-2012, 12:35 PM
Dont go off 1 games, in fact dont go off regular season games. Heat arent giving it 100% every night, its pathetic, i know, but it is what it is. Last year showed the regular season means absolutely nothing, and the heat know this. All we know is both teams improved over last year. And its the bulls goal this season to get past miami, whereas its miami's goal to win the ring.

Bulls goal is to win a championship, no matter who we play... If we have to go through the Heat to do it than so be it... The goal is to win championships.

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 12:37 PM
It would be a close series in this hypothetical. The Bulls and Heat would still both likely be the best two teams in the East in this hypothetical. Saying one would get dominated by the other or that one has no chance at getting to the ECF is lacking in logic.

You have your assumptions and I have mine. I believe a Lebronless Heat team wouldn't be able to beat a Roseless Bulls team. Let's just end the back and forth and say we have different opinions cuz neither one of us can prove each other wrong since this is hypothetical. Stupid argument anyways lol

smiddy012
03-31-2012, 12:45 PM
You have your assumptions and I have mine. I believe a Lebronless Heat team wouldn't be able to beat a Roseless Bulls team. Let's just end the back and forth and say we have different opinions cuz neither one of us can prove each other wrong since this is hypothetical. Stupid argument anyways lol

Fair enough :D

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 12:48 PM
I think heat fans forgot how they played when wade was by himself.

Playoff team yes, Finals team NO

Our second best player was michael beasley :laugh2:

kozelkid
03-31-2012, 01:01 PM
Dont go off 1 games, in fact dont go off regular season games. Heat arent giving it 100% every night, its pathetic, i know, but it is what it is. Last year showed the regular season means absolutely nothing, and the heat know this. All we know is both teams improved over last year. And its the bulls goal this season to get past miami, whereas its miami's goal to win the ring.

Don't flatter yourself. The Bulls' goal is still to win it all like last season. Beating Miami on the way would just be the cherry on top. What, you think OKC's goal is just get through Dallas?

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 01:02 PM
I believe they would shut them down offensively. The Heat rely so much on creating TOs and running in the open court and getting easy buckets. How many Wade to Lebron and vise versa highlights have you seen? You think Battier could do those same things?? Lebron creates so many mismatches it's not even funny! Do you not comprehend that Lebron James leads the Heat in PTS, ASTS, AND REBS!!! Take a player like that off and they surely will drop a few levels (that one was for you Justin lol)

He affects the Heat offensively AND defensively. They Bulls defense is so good even without Rose I do believe that they could stop the high scoring of the Heat if Lebron is not playing. You are acting like I'm saying these things WITH Lebron but I'm not.

The fact that you need to take lebron off the heat to help make an argument that the bulls can beat us says it all.

kozelkid
03-31-2012, 01:03 PM
The fact that you need to take lebron off the heat to help make an argument that the bulls can beat us says it all.

The fact that you didn't read his post and that the context refers to Lebronless vs Roseless, WHICH IS WHAT THIS WHOLE DAMN THREAD IS ABOUT, says it all.

Yanks All Day
03-31-2012, 01:29 PM
The Bulls without Rose would still be a defensive monster under Thibs system. Their bigs would eat Miami alive even moreso than they probably will now. Take LeBron off the Heat and you not only lose your best player, but you lose your best defender to boot. He can guard any position on the court, which is something that can't be taken for granted. People seem to forget that outside the Shaq years (where he was still motivated to play), Wade has not been able to win a playoff round on his own. The Heat would not be as good as the Bulls if this scenario were true.

kozelkid
03-31-2012, 01:35 PM
The Bulls without Rose would still be a defensive monster under Thibs system. Their bigs would eat Miami alive even moreso than they probably will now. Take LeBron off the Heat and you not only lose your best player, but you lose your best defender to boot. He can guard any position on the court, which is something that can't be taken for granted. People seem to forget that outside the Shaq years (where he was still motivated to play), Wade has not been able to win a playoff round on his own. The Heat would not be as good as the Bulls if this scenario were true.

Agreed.

Besides, we've seen how much Wade has struggled against the Bulls defense since Thibs has been here. If you're a team with only one perimeter player able to create for himself going against Thibs' defense, good luck. We all saw how Boston dismantled Lebron's Cavs in the past.

LGhost
03-31-2012, 01:37 PM
Oh and didn't the Roseless Bulls beat the Heat WITH Lebron so I imagine they could also beat them without him even easier.


Actually if you look in your sig picture, you will see Wade trying to turn on LeBron's super secret special santa clause powers second gear, it's located right behind his ear...

They left it off against us, just ask Justin and company

Chi City23
03-31-2012, 01:45 PM
The fact that you need to take lebron off the heat to help make an argument that the bulls can beat us says it all.

Did you even read the thread title?? :laugh:


The fact that you didn't read his post and that the context refers to Lebronless vs Roseless, WHICH IS WHAT THIS WHOLE DAMN THREAD IS ABOUT, says it all.

Thanks Kozel :hi5:


Actually if you look in your sig picture, you will see Wade trying to turn on LeBron's super secret special santa clause powers second gear, it's located right behind his ear...

They left it off against us, just ask Justin and company

Totally forgot about that :rolleyes:

LGhost
03-31-2012, 01:45 PM
The fact that you didn't read his post and that the context refers to Lebronless vs Roseless, WHICH IS WHAT THIS WHOLE DAMN THREAD IS ABOUT, says it all.

That dude is something else

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 01:47 PM
Actually if you look in your sig picture, you will see Wade trying to turn on LeBron's super secret special santa clause powers second gear, it's located right behind his ear...

They left it off against us, just ask Justin and company

Absolutely, i can show you video of that second gear but i think you know what youtube vid i would be linking

LGhost
03-31-2012, 01:50 PM
And when the Bulls win the championship this year, you're still going to continue to find peace by looking at the same video from a year ago... At least we beat them last year, amIrite?

Grow up dude

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 01:53 PM
And when the Bulls win the championship this year, you're still going to continue to find peace by looking at the same video from a year ago... At least we beat them last year, amIrite?

Grow up dude

If the bulls get by the heat then they are the better team, plain and simple.

And when you say beat them last year...do you mean regular season? If so, congrats.

You guys talked a ton of trash leading up to last years ECF, and rightfully so, you guys swept us 3-0. But after watching such a convincing ECF, i just have a hard time seeing the bulls winning 4 of 7 vs. the heat in the playoffs. Can it happen? of course, especially if the bulls dominate the boards.

Wolfman01
03-31-2012, 02:00 PM
I would say yes they are just because they still have Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh on their team if LeBron James isn't playing.

LGhost
03-31-2012, 02:00 PM
Alright then lose the cocky attitude you display in all your posts...

FILM STUDY: SCORING WITHOUT ROSE (http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/03/31/film-study-scoring-without-rose/)


But to see the Bulls scoring more than 104 points per 100 possessions without Rose is a pretty big deal. That’s a rate which would rank Chicago as the seventh best offense in the league … without their best player.

Birdmannn
03-31-2012, 02:37 PM
Chicago has such a good all around team. Great coach and system with the whole team buying in and playing at such a high level. Its great having such a humble star that is willing to do everything to make the team better, Rose's leadership skills at such a young age are so impressive it really makes the team so much better. (Playing or not)

Super.
03-31-2012, 02:40 PM
wat

beasted86
03-31-2012, 06:52 PM
Alright then lose the cocky attitude you display in all your posts...

FILM STUDY: SCORING WITHOUT ROSE (http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/03/31/film-study-scoring-without-rose/)

There were similar statistics about how much better the Nuggets offense and scoring efficiency was without Carmelo and how their team was so much better with everybody being asked to be involved on offense.

Yet at the end of the day you need guys in the playoffs that can create isolation offense and get to the free throw line... especially in the clutch, or else you are easy-out first round team like those same Nuggets were.

Chronz
03-31-2012, 08:45 PM
Alright then lose the cocky attitude you display in all your posts...

FILM STUDY: SCORING WITHOUT ROSE (http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/03/31/film-study-scoring-without-rose/)

There were similar statistics about how much better the Nuggets offense and scoring efficiency was without Carmelo and how their team was so much better with everybody being asked to be involved on offense.

Yet at the end of the day you need guys in the playoffs that can create isolation offense and get to the free throw line... especially in the clutch, or else you are easy-out first round team like those same Nuggets were.
Nuggs got better on d, their o was the same. And they were a first round team throughout Melos tenure.
But what makes you buy into the importance of iso ball?

justinnum1
03-31-2012, 08:47 PM
Nuggs got better on d, their o was the same. But what makes you buy into the importance of iso ball?

I think he means an elite playmaker that can a)take over a game or b)create a high % scoring opportunity for a teammate. Neither of which the bulls have without rose.

Ebbs
03-31-2012, 08:50 PM
Umm no.

Heat without LeBron are worse off than Bulls without Rose.

I believe that 100%.

Kobes a Killer
03-31-2012, 09:00 PM
No

JordansBulls
04-05-2012, 05:03 PM
I think heat fans forgot how they played when wade was by himself.

Playoff team yes, Finals team NO

They won a title with Wade as the man

Cfrey
04-05-2012, 05:06 PM
They won a title with Wade as the man

I'm sorry but when has Wade made the finals by himself??

If I remember correctly, when Wade was the only guy on the Heat (like LeBron was on the Cavs) they were pretty bad.

justinnum1
04-05-2012, 05:21 PM
I'm sorry but when has Wade made the finals by himself??

If I remember correctly, when Wade was the only guy on the Heat (like LeBron was on the Cavs) they were pretty bad.

I think what he means is wade won a title at the #1 option, and yes he did.

SportsAndrew25
04-05-2012, 06:26 PM
With Wade and Bosh, the Heat should still be competitive. I think the Bulls would struggle long term with out Rose.

Cfrey
04-05-2012, 06:32 PM
I think what he means is wade won a title at the #1 option, and yes he did.

He did but the 2006 Heat were way better than any Cleveland team LeBron was ever on hahahaha how could the Heat be better than the Bulls without LeBron??

If anything it would be without Wade. That would be a legitimate thread because there is an actually sample size without Wade.

What are they 10 and 1 without him?? Not to mention that when Wade is out you actually get to see the real LeBron.

Chronz
04-05-2012, 07:40 PM
With Wade and Bosh, the Heat should still be competitive. I think the Bulls would struggle long term with out Rose.

So what theyve done without Rose this season is all one big fluke?

smiddy012
04-05-2012, 07:48 PM
Miami could still compete with the elite teams in the playoffs, the Bulls couldn't IMO. Rose is always the one guy to come through for the Bulls when the teams in a scoring drought. Miami would be in better hands during the playoffs, Chicago during the regular season.

blams
04-06-2012, 02:08 AM
No, not even close. And this isn't a fair comparison. LeBron vs. Rose?