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North Yorker
03-24-2012, 01:47 PM
DUNEDIN, Fla. -- If you utter that magic word, "phenom," in a baseball word-association game, you know the names you'll hear back:

Bryce Harper … Mike Trout… Matt Moore.

Every one of those names would represent a 100 percent correct answer, of course. But here's another name that should never again be left off your handy dandy list of Baseball's Brightest Phenoms -- or you'll be sentenced to watching 97 consecutive hours worth of highlights of The Bachelor's Greatest Dates:

Brett Lawrie.

The Toronto Blue Jays' 22-year-old third baseman isn't technically a rookie anymore, thanks to the 150 at-bats he got at the end of last season. But mention the name Brett Lawrie to people inside baseball's inner circle, and the responses blow your eardrums away.

"Wow," said one longtime scout.

"Oh my God," said another.

"Speed, power, attitude, hustle -- and he's got every intangible you could ever want in a player," said another.

"He's going to be a great offensive force," said yet another. "And defensively, I don't know what quality you'd want in a third baseman that he doesn't have."

read on... (http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7729121/toronto-blue-jays-third-baseman-brett-lawrie-bound-greatness)

es0terik
03-24-2012, 02:00 PM
I really wish people stop saying crap like this, they're hyping him up so damn hard that it'll be near impossible to meet those expectations. There's a good chance that the guy is due for a sophomore slump as the year goes on, but because of articles like this that keep showing up, not just Lawrie, but even guys like Moore, Harper and Trout are all going to have way too much to 'prove' to people. **** like this gets to guys sometimes. Enough with these articles, there's no use getting all our hopes up to the moon. Let's just wait till the season starts.

the_jon
03-24-2012, 02:03 PM
I don't like throwing Derek Jeters name around, but Lawrie just gives me that feeling.

He probably won't hit for quite as high an average as Jeter over his career, but he projects more power and has more range defensively than Jeter ever had.

Dol-Fan
03-24-2012, 02:16 PM
Great piece, thanks for posting. I laughed reading about his experiences in Milwaukee...wanted to be in the big leagues at 19 so they traded him, in a nutshell.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 02:22 PM
Then he goes on to make a list of guys who had Lawrie's success at his age, all of whom have many more plate appearances than him, and then makes an absolutely incorrect statement saying that 10 of the 11 of those guys are in the Hall of Fame, and then he actually went and TOLD Lawrie that his name is in a group that includes Ted Williams, Joe Jackson, Willie McCovey, Albert Pujols and Ted Williams. THAT is the kind of stuff that gets to a guy. Now I know this may mean nothing because Lawrie so far has shown infinite confidence and stuff like that, but psychology is still a big part of the game. It wouldn't be surprising if a guy like that goes into a slump and then thinks back at all the comparisons to the MVP/HoF players and gets negatively affected even more, thinking that he let people down. Like I said, this doesn't necessarily have to be Lawrie, but this stuff does happen, it's happened before. Trout, Harper and Moore are all being treated the same way.

2009mvp
03-24-2012, 02:24 PM
The chart is cool and all, but the AB's aren't really close. The third person reference though...eww. Buck's quote about George Brett was pretty fun to hear though.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 02:34 PM
The chart is cool and all, but the AB's aren't really close. The third person reference though...eww. Buck's quote about George Brett was pretty fun to hear though.

The AB's aren't really close and his statements are also totally wrong. 10 of those guys aren't in the Hall of Fame, because as he admitted, Hal Trosky isn't in there, and apparently he doesn't know that Joe Jackson and A-Rod are also not in the HoF yet.

Dol-Fan
03-24-2012, 02:37 PM
The chart is cool and all, but the AB's aren't really close. The third person reference though...eww. Buck's quote about George Brett was pretty fun to hear though.

Loved that bit as well, but the comparison to all-time greats was undoubtedly overblown.

bomber0104
03-24-2012, 02:41 PM
yeah i'm not liking the extra attention either.. hopefully it doesn't get to his head..

the guy might be a douche, but he's our douche

JermanJaysFan
03-24-2012, 02:55 PM
yeah i'm not liking the extra attention either.. hopefully it doesn't get to his head..

the guy might be a douche, but he's our douche
See, I don't see Brett as being this kind of guy. Even with people hyping him up, I can't imagine him getting complacent. He is so intense and competitive that I can't imagine him slacking, thinking that he has "made it" just because people say he is awesome. He wants to kick *** on each given play in a ball game, not just in the history books.

3mikee_
03-24-2012, 03:06 PM
I love brett lawrie

es0terik
03-24-2012, 03:17 PM
See, I don't see Brett as being this kind of guy. Even with people hyping him up, I can't imagine him getting complacent. He is so intense and competitive that I can't imagine him slacking, thinking that he has "made it" just because people say he is awesome. He wants to kick *** on each given play in a ball game, not just in the history books.

This is what I mean. Right NOW he's this awesome confident guy because all he has seen so far is success. Do we know he'll still be as steadfast if ever slumps? That's what we're talking about here. If he ever goes into a slump (which would be totally natural) we don't know if he'll still be as confident, or if all this overhype may or may not get to him.

Cooshman
03-24-2012, 03:45 PM
I get the feeling that Lawrie is one of "those" guys that can take the hype, pressure and comparisons and not have it effect his game play. They are far and few in-between but I think Lawrie is one of them. Will he slump? Sure, everyone slumps but his talent is so great that I think he'll work through it and become even better for it.
The Lawrie for Marcum trade was a lopsided trade in favor of the Jays - IMO

JermanJaysFan
03-24-2012, 03:49 PM
This is what I mean. Right NOW he's this awesome confident guy because all he has seen so far is success. Do we know he'll still be as steadfast if ever slumps? That's what we're talking about here. If he ever goes into a slump (which would be totally natural) we don't know if he'll still be as confident, or if all this overhype may or may not get to him.
But my point is that he is insanely driven. Can't you see him getting more pissed than any fan if he is slumping ?

town123
03-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Forget Bartman.

I wouldn't want to be the fan that snags the foul ball only 5 rows in.......

BlueJayFanDan
03-24-2012, 04:09 PM
I love brett lawrie

I'm pretty certain we all love him.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 04:18 PM
But my point is that he is insanely driven. Can't you see him getting more pissed than any fan if he is slumping ?

Exactly. A guy being angry at himself for letting people and himself down isn't always healthy for his game. I just saw the ESPN Brett Lawrie fantasy value clip for the second time and they say confidently that 'He's a future Ryan Braun, this guy'. I mean yeah it gives me chills and goosebumps to hear that kind of stuff, but I don't know if I WANT to believe all that just yet. We've been disappointed enough with guys like Hill and Lind.

bljay29
03-24-2012, 04:39 PM
I think we all love Brett BUT in all honesty its getting to the point we are all over hyping him.. Who knows he could struggle this year once pitchers start getting to know him or my biggest worry is that all out hustle all the time is gonna lead to a lot of injuries..

There has been a lot of guys that got a lot of hype and attention that never panned out in the majors and for myself as much as i want to say he could be this or that or compare him to Braun, Brett etc.. I will just enjoy watching him and try not to label him

es0terik
03-24-2012, 04:51 PM
I think we all love Brett BUT in all honesty its getting to the point we are all over hyping him.. Who knows he could struggle this year once pitchers start getting to know him or my biggest worry is that all out hustle all the time is gonna lead to a lot of injuries..

There has been a lot of guys that got a lot of hype and attention that never panned out in the majors and for myself as much as i want to say he could be this or that or compare him to Braun, Brett etc.. I will just enjoy watching him and try not to label him

This.

wagnall
03-24-2012, 05:02 PM
I just want to see him play and stay away from comparisons right now. Had a very good end of season, and a great ST., but this is a kid who needs to take a valium before each game as he completely leaves everything he has on the field. Sometime you try too hard to reach these lofty predictions you start to lose your focus at the plate.
Lawrie is a tough kid who is a legit ball player, and will indeed have slumps as do ALL players. But how do you stop a freight train at full speed. Let him play his game. He will learn to stay grounded and concentrate on what he can do rather than trying to do what press clippings expect him to do. JMHO

JermanJaysFan
03-24-2012, 07:51 PM
Exactly. A guy being angry at himself for letting people and himself down isn't always healthy for his game. I just saw the ESPN Brett Lawrie fantasy value clip for the second time and they say confidently that 'He's a future Ryan Braun, this guy'. I mean yeah it gives me chills and goosebumps to hear that kind of stuff, but I don't know if I WANT to believe all that just yet. We've been disappointed enough with guys like Hill and Lind.
I'm not sure if you're not understanding my point, or if we just have different views on his personality, haha. I'll give it one more go :D:

Lets say Brett boots a grounder to third. I don't see him thinking "Ah well, I'm Brett ****ing Lawrie, who cares?", I see him being a guy who is internally motivated, and thinking "**** Brett, be better!" and locking in more. I don't see his ego and competitiveness ever standing in his way, only driving. If he slumps, he will not be complacent and will do something about it, because guys like him can't live with sub-par. For a guy like him, failure isn't something that gets him down, it's something that kicks him in the pants and motivates.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 08:21 PM
Oh I get it. Well see my thing isn't really with Brett Lawrie's personality or even Lawrie as a whole. My whole point is against overhyping prospects to the point of comparing them to perennial MVP candidates or hall of famers... Like I pointed out a few times that it may not get to Lawrie specifically, because as we can all agree on, the guy's got an excellent personality. But can you really say that this kind of pressure won't get to a guy like maybe Bryce Harper? I mean nothing about Harper screams 'OH MY GOD THIS CONFIDENCE! AHHH!' about him. The guy dropped out of school to get drafted and everybody in his life is like 'SUCCEED OR DIE!' Even in the clubhouse everybody expects him to be the second coming of Jesus for the Nationals. When people make it seem like the future of a franchise depends on your nineteen year old shoulders, it can kill a player's game. At this point I can actually speculate that Harper will never live up to the expectations that people have put on him, simply because the expectations are that he will have a hall of fame career or be the next Pujols or some ****.

bomber0104
03-24-2012, 09:52 PM
See, I don't see Brett as being this kind of guy. Even with people hyping him up, I can't imagine him getting complacent. He is so intense and competitive that I can't imagine him slacking, thinking that he has "made it" just because people say he is awesome. He wants to kick *** on each given play in a ball game, not just in the history books.

I'm not worried about it affecting his play on the field because the guy is a beast. What i'm worried about is if was start having issues with guys that aren't his best buddies (JPA, Snider) in the clubhouse. You also don't want him to have any issues off the field

StealingSigns
03-24-2012, 11:29 PM
Here's the thing about Lawrie.

He brings a much needed swagger to this team, something that has been missing for a loooong time. Yep, I ragged on him for his Twitter stuff earlier this offseason (and he needs to find that balance) but he is EXACTLY what this team needs.

Remember when Dave Winfield was exasperated with the fanbase? Winfield wants noise? Finally, someone is about to deliver it.

This isn't about overhyping him. Rather, it's about time we had a player who is comfortable as being the standard bearer. He relishes it, just as Robbie did during the heyday. I just don't see him withering when it comes to expectations, not with his makeup.

es0terik
03-25-2012, 12:34 AM
That's all fine and dandy and I agree with everyone of those points SS but that isn't exactly what is happening here. People aren't praising his swagger. Maybe when they say the fact that he has every intangible you want, it gets mentioned with that, but what's happening here is that he IS being overhyped. The guy's being put in the same list as bonafide first ballot hall of famers and getting fantasy projections that look like Ryan Braun. THAT is the only thing I'm not really happy with. I love everything about the actual player, just not what the media is doing with him already.

jakedajewler
03-25-2012, 12:58 AM
See, I don't see Brett as being this kind of guy. Even with people hyping him up, I can't imagine him getting complacent. He is so intense and competitive that I can't imagine him slacking, thinking that he has "made it" just because people say he is awesome. He wants to kick *** on each given play in a ball game, not just in the history books.

I didn't think of Vince Carter like that either, he had a competitve edge untill he won the dunk competetion and it all went to his head

Big Hurt
03-25-2012, 09:17 AM
My ONLY corcern with Brett is that he plays SO hard that he might be more prone to injuries.
Otherwise I love our hockey player with cleats on playing 3rd for the next 10 years!!!

dtmagnet
03-25-2012, 09:33 AM
Here's the thing about Lawrie.

He brings a much needed swagger to this team, something that has been missing for a loooong time. Yep, I ragged on him for his Twitter stuff earlier this offseason (and he needs to find that balance) but he is EXACTLY what this team needs.

Remember when Dave Winfield was exasperated with the fanbase? Winfield wants noise? Finally, someone is about to deliver it.

This isn't about overhyping him. Rather, it's about time we had a player who is comfortable as being the standard bearer. He relishes it, just as Robbie did during the heyday. I just don't see him withering when it comes to expectations, not with his makeup.

I like this post, I agree his personality is almost to the point where he probably already has these thoughts himself.

Towelie
03-25-2012, 09:33 AM
This guys got so much hype. He's gonna be great don't get me wrong. But I can't remember the last time a guys been hyped this much. Don't know if it's just cause were local to this but he's getting more attention than Jose. If he's a 275/340/439 thats a great player, but not the player of this hype.

JermanJaysFan
03-25-2012, 10:40 AM
This guys got so much hype. He's gonna be great don't get me wrong. But I can't remember the last time a guys been hyped this much. Don't know if it's just cause were local to this but he's getting more attention than Jose. If he's a 275/340/439 thats a great player, but not the player of this hype.
I don't know if you're quoting that as a potential line for this season, or as a kind of "career norm" line for him. If its the former, sure, I'd be fine with that for this point in his development. But a .779 OPS is far from being a great player in terms of being a "career norm". If a fully developed Lawrie posts ~.780 OPS values, I think the Jays fan base would be rightly disappointed, unless he ends up as a plus plus plus defender at third (edit- and/or adds substantial value on the basepaths).

Towelie
03-25-2012, 11:59 AM
I don't know if you're quoting that as a potential line for this season, or as a kind of "career norm" line for him. If its the former, sure, I'd be fine with that for this point in his development. But a .779 OPS is far from being a great player in terms of being a "career norm". If a fully developed Lawrie posts ~.780 OPS values, I think the Jays fan base would be rightly disappointed, unless he ends up as a plus plus plus defender at third (edit- and/or adds substantial value on the basepaths).

See for me a rookie season with that line isn't a disappointment. You're statement on how it would be is what worries me. I just think my expectations are a little lower for a rookie. I think he's gonna be a beast, but I set my expectations low for the rookie season.

JermanJaysFan
03-25-2012, 12:12 PM
See for me a rookie season with that line isn't a disappointment. You're statement on how it would be is what worries me. I just think my expectations are a little lower for a rookie. I think he's gonna be a beast, but I set my expectations low for the rookie season.

Oh no, for a rookie season that's great, I'd be happy with that line. I just wasn't sure whether you were throwing that line out there as a "rookie line" or a "career peak" line.

es0terik
03-25-2012, 04:42 PM
I don't know if you're quoting that as a potential line for this season, or as a kind of "career norm" line for him. If its the former, sure, I'd be fine with that for this point in his development. But a .779 OPS is far from being a great player in terms of being a "career norm". If a fully developed Lawrie posts ~.780 OPS values, I think the Jays fan base would be rightly disappointed, unless he ends up as a plus plus plus defender at third (edit- and/or adds substantial value on the basepaths).

The guy's a Red Sox fan. Who knows how much he even knows about the player.

kanersen
03-25-2012, 05:16 PM
What I saw from Lawrie last year was amazing. Having said that, Jeff Francour came out the gate for his hometown Brave's just as hot, and we all know how that ended. I'm going to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. A full season is a long season.

Towelie
03-25-2012, 05:59 PM
Oh no, for a rookie season that's great, I'd be happy with that line. I just wasn't sure whether you were throwing that line out there as a "rookie line" or a "career peak" line.

Yea, no maybe should of cleared it up. Yea, thats a rookie line for this season. Although a OPS of 850 certainly isn't out of the question. I'm just hoping that a good season isn't spoiled cause he's not Ryan Braun out of the gate.

Halladay
03-26-2012, 12:03 AM
The guy's a Red Sox fan. Who knows how much he even knows about the player.

He is, and usually outside opinions are much less bias and more realistic.

bljay29
03-26-2012, 08:49 AM
What I saw from Lawrie last year was amazing. Having said that, Jeff Francour came out the gate for his hometown Brave's just as hot, and we all know how that ended. I'm going to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. A full season is a long season.

That is a good point, Francour was hyped big time too

AA09-?
03-26-2012, 09:34 AM
See, I don't see Brett as being this kind of guy. Even with people hyping him up, I can't imagine him getting complacent. He is so intense and competitive that I can't imagine him slacking, thinking that he has "made it" just because people say he is awesome. He wants to kick *** on each given play in a ball game, not just in the history books.

Exactly. He clearly has the attitude that he doesn't just want to win, he wants to embarrass the opposition.

darius
03-26-2012, 11:26 AM
I don't like throwing Derek Jeters name around, but Lawrie just gives me that feeling.

He probably won't hit for quite as high an average as Jeter over his career, but he projects more power and has more range defensively than Jeter ever had.

I don't think of Jeter at all.

He plays like Pete Rose.

Krylian
03-26-2012, 11:43 AM
I really wish people stop saying crap like this, they're hyping him up so damn hard that it'll be near impossible to meet those expectations. There's a good chance that the guy is due for a sophomore slump as the year goes on, but because of articles like this that keep showing up, not just Lawrie, but even guys like Moore, Harper and Trout are all going to have way too much to 'prove' to people. **** like this gets to guys sometimes. Enough with these articles, there's no use getting all our hopes up to the moon. Let's just wait till the season starts.

If he slumps because of articles written about him then he's got potential flake written all over him much like Colby Rasmus.

He's a ball player...he just needs to go out, work hard, and play ball. Everything else will take care of itself. I'll spare everyone the suspense...Lawrie will have his slumps, but he's a good player. He'll adjust and will be just fine. Others acknowledging that the Jays have a very young, very gifted athlete is a good thing.

AA09-?
03-26-2012, 03:07 PM
I just want to see him play and stay away from comparisons right now. Had a very good end of season, and a great ST., but this is a kid who needs to take a valium before each game as he completely leaves everything he has on the field. Sometime you try too hard to reach these lofty predictions you start to lose your focus at the plate.
Lawrie is a tough kid who is a legit ball player, and will indeed have slumps as do ALL players. But how do you stop a freight train at full speed. Let him play his game. He will learn to stay grounded and concentrate on what he can do rather than trying to do what press clippings expect him to do. JMHO

:clap::clap:

AA09-?
03-26-2012, 03:14 PM
I don't think of Jeter at all.

He plays like Pete Rose.

:nod:Or from what's been written, Ty Cobb.

Towelie
03-26-2012, 03:32 PM
The guy's a Red Sox fan. Who knows how much he even knows about the player.

It's funny cause I was pretty much agreeing with you. So I guess a Sox fan feeling the same as you must eat you up inside. Just cause someone has a fav team doesn't mean they ignore a division rival, or a local team, or a Canadian player.

es0terik
03-27-2012, 02:00 AM
It's funny cause I was pretty much agreeing with you. So I guess a Sox fan feeling the same as you must eat you up inside. Just cause someone has a fav team doesn't mean they ignore a division rival, or a local team, or a Canadian player.

How could you have been agreeing with me when we were talking about two totally different things. I was talking about how a guys psyche could get messed up with too much media pressure and you were talking about potential projections. It's like me saying "Hi my name is Johnny Cash" and you saying "I'll take my Orange Juice with extra pulp" and then telling me that your statement somehow agreed with mine.


If he slumps because of articles written about him then he's got potential flake written all over him much like Colby Rasmus.

I never meant to say that he would slump because of articles written about him, so if I made it seem like that, woopsies, not gonna go back and check though. My point was that if he does slump, there's always a chance that he feels he let people down because of how high the media held him. Now like I said numerous times, I'm not saying this is a specific case about Brett Lawrie, he could be totally immune to this. It's the whole general concept of overhyping prospects.

Bob_at_york
03-28-2012, 11:35 AM
Good article.

masTOR_shake1
03-29-2012, 03:39 PM
I don't like throwing Derek Jeters name around, but Lawrie just gives me that feeling.

He probably won't hit for quite as high an average as Jeter over his career, but he projects more power and has more range defensively than Jeter ever had.

he isn't as measured and is understandably more immature than jeter, but he could be our jeter culturally as well. we have a bad history as of late of trading away our "identity" guys and i think lawrie, like jeter, could be with one major league team his whole career.