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View Full Version : Most Improved Player of the Year?



Blitzace137
03-23-2012, 02:30 PM
Discuss

Giraffes Rule
03-23-2012, 02:39 PM
Kyle Lowry, Evan Turner, James Harden

That'd be my nominees.

Gators123
03-23-2012, 02:40 PM
Greg Monroe, Harden and Ryan Anderson all have cases.

b@llhog24
03-23-2012, 02:41 PM
Monroe & Anderson.

raiderposting
03-23-2012, 02:42 PM
Andrew Bynum

DITKA4GOV
03-23-2012, 02:46 PM
Harden , Monroe, and Lowry.

KnicksR4Real
03-23-2012, 02:47 PM
I know this was the obvious elephant in the room. Jeremy Lin. He's gonna win for sure.

VCaintdead17
03-23-2012, 02:47 PM
Anderson embodies the award perfecty. I can't think of anyone else who deserves it more.

Iron24th
03-23-2012, 02:49 PM
Harden,Monroe,Bynum

tredigs
03-23-2012, 02:49 PM
Evan Turner's really not shown much improvement other than his one great week there. He's already back to reality (and it's not an impressive one).

I want to say Ryan Anderson, but really he's always been capable of this play and has always shown it when given the minutes. His PER-36 minute numbers aren't much different at all. Kyle Lowry? He's been impressive, but I'm not really sure that he's that much better than last year.

James Harden has a good case, but we can argue that it was a natural progression for a 3rd year budding star that most saw coming (the efficiency is great though). So that's an argument, but he's already got 6th man locked up - so from the voters standpoint I doubt he gets it.

Ersan Ilyasova is the clear choice to me. Dude has just stepped up his game all over. Scoring, rebounding, efficiency - it's all finally coming together for him. Especially in these past couple months.

shyfly24
03-23-2012, 02:51 PM
Kevin love

IversonIsKrazy
03-23-2012, 02:52 PM
Lin.

willabeast77
03-23-2012, 02:53 PM
Harden wont win it. Sure he's improved but people saw this from him in the playoffs last season. He has a better case for winning 6th Man of the Year.

TeamSeattle
03-23-2012, 02:53 PM
Greg Monroe by far.

JasonJohnHorn
03-23-2012, 02:57 PM
Nikola Pekovic should be somewhere in this conversation as well.
Jeremy Lin is an obvious fan fav for this award, though his improvement came mid-season when he found himself in the starting line up.
Greg Monroe has seen his scoring average and rebounding average increase, while his FG% actually dropped a little bit. I'm not so sure he is 'better' than he was last season, but he is certainly getting the ball more, and getting more minutes.

The thing I always find odd about the award is that often times players who havent improved end up getting the award, simply because their team sucks and they end up getting more minutes or have more plays run for them. Perfect example is in 08. Calderon saw moderate improvements in his scoring and assist averages, but huge improvements in his FT% and 3PT%, both increased by over 10%. That is a huge improvement. And his assist-to-turnover ration was WAY better than the season before. He increased his assists by 3.3 that season, while only increasing his turnovers by 0.1. That is a huge improvement. But he wasn hardly mentioned for the award and it ended up going to Turkoglu, who did improve his percentages slightly, but really the only difference in his game was that he was getting more shots and more minutes.

This season, you look at a guy like Lowry, he's improved his 3PT% and FT%, but if you look at his per36 stats, he really only has a slight increase in scoring, about an extra basket a game. Monroe has actually seen his FG% drop, though his FT% has imrpoved, and his per36 stats you can see a drastic improvement in scoring and a nice improvement in rebounding.

Evan Turner, who some have mentioned, has seen an improvement in assists and rebounds with only a mild increase in minutes, but he's actually went down with his 3PT% and FT%.

Ryan Anderson may be considered a favorite to win the award, but looking at his per36 minutes stats he's actually getting less rebounds and assists than last season, and only half a bucket more, though all over his percentages are up slightly from last season. He is largely benifitting from the fact that Orlando doesnt have any real option at PF.

For me, the top candidates would be Harden and Bynum.

Bynum was already playing at a high level, but he has brought his game up big time. Its hard to see the difference when you are already playing at a high level, but his improvement is akin to Grant Hill's improvement in the 00 season. Hill posted a nearly a 5 poitn increase, which wasnt as drastic and increase as some that season, but it was huge considering he was already a 20 point per game scorer, he got a 3PT shot that season, literally gong from .000% to .347, while both his FG% and FT% went up, as well as his assists and rebounds. He had a huge season that year, but it didnt look like a big improvement because he was already an all-star.

This year Harden has improved his FG% and 3PT%, increases his rebounds slightly, his assists, and his scoring average, and its not just because he's getting more minutes as his per36 minutes scoring average is up almost 3 points this season. There are increases in all his per36 minute stats.

Here's the deal with Bynum. He was the second best center last year. He is the second best center this year. the ground he's gained on Dwight Howard in one year is huge. Now there are actually people who would rather have Bynum than Dwight. Bynum has improved his post game and gets more shots, but his per36 scoring average is virtually the same as it was in 2010 and 2009. His per36 rebounding average is the same as last season. The depature of Odom has helped Bynum a lot because Odom used to play a lot of minutes at PF which allowed Pao to play a lot of minutes at center. Nowthe Lakers need both of these guys to play starting minutes, and Brown has opted to run a few plays for Bynum.

I'm gonna put my vote in for Lin this year, but its a close race for second place. Lin's numbers are just so drastically higher than other people, its almost not even a contest.

tredigs
03-23-2012, 02:59 PM
Not feeling the Monroe choice. Everybody knew that with more minutes and more time in the NBA the 2nd year player would clearly show improvement. That's natural progression. If his efficiency stayed the same or got better with the more minutes I'd be on board with it, but it's definitely taken a dip. Also his defense is still paltry and his game hasn't been strong enough to translate to wins for them.

No sale.

@Jason. Pekovic is a great choice as well. I'm just as good with that as Ilyasova.

KnicksR4Real
03-23-2012, 03:01 PM
When you are a lottery pick you shouldn't be most improved player. People expect quality production when you are in the lottery. That eliminates a lot of these players like Greg Monroe.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2012, 03:02 PM
Andrew Bynum will win it.

Shmontaine
03-23-2012, 03:03 PM
lol knicks...

the knicks will win every award this season handed out this season...

TeamSeattle
03-23-2012, 03:04 PM
When you are a lottery pick you shouldn't be most improved player. People expect quality production when you are in the lottery. That eliminates a lot of these players like Greg Monroe.

He's averaging 17 & 10 and has performed tremendously against plus .500 teams. Sry I don't fall for this notion of a player has to be on a winning team to receive an award. If a player is good he's good.

shep33
03-23-2012, 03:05 PM
Bynum, Harden, Monroe. Pekovic?

29$JerZ
03-23-2012, 03:07 PM
Pekocic, Monroe, Lin, Harden IMO
Nice year for young Centers

Also I forgot, Ryan Anderson has a shot as well. Completely forgot
About him.

Swashcuff
03-23-2012, 03:11 PM
Not feeling the Monroe choice. Everybody knew that with more minutes and more time in the NBA the 2nd year player would clearly show improvement. That's natural progression. If his efficiency stayed the same or got better with the more minutes I'd be on board with it, but it's definitely taken a dip. Also his defense is still paltry and his game hasn't been strong enough to translate to wins for them.

No sale.

@Jason. Pekovic is a great choice as well. I'm just as good with that as Ilyasova.

Precisely. You're expected to improve in your second season in the league. Its rare that 2nd year players even win the award in the first place. IIRC Gilbert Arenas is the last 2nd year player to have won the award.

LongIslandIcedZ
03-23-2012, 03:15 PM
Is Jeremy Lin even eligible? I remember one of the posters a few weeks back said he wasnt even eligible.

If he is, it will probably be him. He might not be the most deserving. But the publicity he has gotten versus other contenders will probably put him over the edge.

Gators123
03-23-2012, 03:18 PM
Precisely. You're expected to improve in your second season in the league. Its rare that 2nd year players even win the award in the first place. IIRC Gilbert Arenas is the last 2nd year player to have won the award.

Didn't Monta Ellis win it in his 2nd year?

Lakers + Giants
03-23-2012, 03:24 PM
Monroe, Bynum, Harden or Lin.

Lim
03-23-2012, 04:11 PM
why bynum? he has surely improved but its most likely a product of being healthy for once, getting more touches, and a lot more minutes. per 36 minutes confirms this as he has put up numbers like this b4, when he was 20 mind you (and with less touches)

Lakers + Giants
03-23-2012, 04:25 PM
why bynum? he has surely improved but its most likely a product of being healthy for once, getting more touches, and a lot more minutes. per 36 minutes confirms this as he has put up numbers like this b4, when he was 20 mind you (and with less touches)

according to PSD he's overrated and brook lopez is better. Lopez isn't even a top 5 center.

Ebbs
03-23-2012, 04:37 PM
Initially I thought Anderson.

Than I was like maybe Lin.

I concluded Ersan deserves it the most.

KnicksR4Real
03-23-2012, 05:01 PM
He's averaging 17 & 10 and has performed tremendously against plus .500 teams. Sry I don't fall for this notion of a player has to be on a winning team to receive an award. If a player is good he's good.

Not what I said bahaha. I said if he is drafted in the lottery, aka, he is expected to perform well, he shouldn't be considered for the award. Where does winning or record fall into place?

Raph12
03-23-2012, 05:05 PM
Pekovic, Harden and Monroe are my top 3, not in any specific order...

Cal827
03-23-2012, 05:09 PM
Lebron James, Greg Monroe, Kevin Love

5ass
03-23-2012, 05:39 PM
Pekovic, Harden and Monroe are my top 3, not in any specific order...

I have to agree with this. Ryan anderson has been mentioned here a lot, and i dont think he's much improved from last year. We always knew he could rebound and hit the 3. He has improved his defense, but not enough.

Pekovic has been doing everything better. avoiding comitting fouls and turnovers, rebounding, scoring. I think his defense hasnt changed much, but everything else has improved

Greg monroe im not sure about. I think he hasnt improved much, he's just being used more. Hes getting a lot more touches especially late in the game, but i believe if he already had a polished offensive game, good passing, and rebounding last season. His FT% has improved a lot though.

Harden has improved in a few areas like running plays for teammates and he's just so calm and composed on the court. Also drawing more fouls and committing less. His shot has also improved.

If i had to choose one I'd go with Pekovic, but u could go with Harden just because this improvement is the step that makes him an elite player.

JasonJohnHorn
03-23-2012, 05:51 PM
Can one of the moderators add a pole to this things?

tredigs
03-23-2012, 05:56 PM
I'm still not feeling or understanding the 2nd or 3rd year lottery picks who are 20/21 years old, I don't think that's the spirit of the award at all.

Hawk or Manram or Avenged or whoever else sees this, you should add a poll. I'm curious which way most are leaning and I want to focus an argument for Ilyasova or Pek compared to whoever that player is...

Maybe with options of: Harden, Monroe, Lin, Pekovic, Ilyasova, Anderson, Lowry and other? Seem like the most common names.

TheNumber37
03-23-2012, 06:13 PM
Lowry in the first few months... but seriously, lin.
he went from d league to top selling NBA Jersey in matter of weeks

Avenged
03-23-2012, 06:21 PM
I'm still not feeling or understanding the 2nd or 3rd year lottery picks who are 20/21 years old, I don't think that's the spirit of the award at all.

Hawk or Manram or Avenged or whoever else sees this, you should add a poll. I'm curious which way most are leaning and I want to focus an argument for Ilyasova or Pek compared to whoever that player is...

Maybe with options of: Harden, Monroe, Lin, Pekovic, Ilyasova, Anderson, Lowry and other? Seem like the most common names.

Gotcha. Poll added!

tredigs
03-23-2012, 06:29 PM
Gotcha. Poll added!

Mahalo holmes. Bynum too - that's a good call.

Baller1
03-23-2012, 06:34 PM
I'll probably be viewed as a homer, but I really do believe it's Harden.

AIRMAR72
03-23-2012, 06:34 PM
Evan Turner

knicksfan42
03-23-2012, 06:34 PM
I'm gonna put my vote in for Lin this year, but its a close race for second place. Lin's numbers are just so drastically higher than other people, its almost not even a contest.

Yep

pacersfan1967
03-23-2012, 06:43 PM
George Hill

Gators123
03-23-2012, 06:48 PM
George Hill

:confused:

lavilevi23
03-23-2012, 06:54 PM
Lowry for me

tredigs
03-23-2012, 07:01 PM
I'll probably be viewed as a homer, but I really do believe it's Harden.

He has the argument, I just personally don't know if it should go to him being that he's a budding star in what is generally the breakout age/season (3rd) for budding stars.

But unlike Monroe, what's impressive about Harden is that with the increase in minutes he's also having an INSANE increase in efficiency - to the point where he's having one of the most efficient seasons in NBA history for a guard (65.3% TS%. That just about matches Nash's best year ever - and I think Nash's TS% might have been the highest ever for a guard... definitely in the past decade). And even including PF's/Centers that TS% is good enough for 1st overall nearly every year. So is his O-rating of 124.5. Unfortunately for him Tyson Chandler and his 1/2 foot 'shooting' radius has him putting up the highest TS% in league history and a legendary Offensive rating too. But obviously in context it is not even remotely as epic as what Harden is doing.

And not to mention his per-game numbers like points in assists making a rise in both actuality and on a PER-36 minute basis. Basically everything he's doing is phenomenal and he's a lock for 6th man. MIP? Yeah, he could actually be that also, but I'd still rather give it to a guy who I did not EXPECT a rise in production from (tho' nobody probably anticipated it being this big).

So all that said I think it should still go to Ilyasova, who is seeing a major rise in both production and efficiency ala Harden (not at his level, but it's all relative). He's a 26 year old 4th year 2nd round draft pick playing alongside the same B. Jennings and crew (not exactly known to make teammates better) who I don't think many if any saw such a massive uptick in his game coming. Here's his numbers for anyone lazy but curious to check 'em out: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilyaser01.html

Steadily increasing the past couple months also. I think he even got himself a player of the week a couple weeks ago. Not something I thought I'd ever see from him.

Gators123
03-23-2012, 07:05 PM
He has the argument, I just personally don't know if it should go to him being that he's a budding star in what is generally the breakout age/season (3rd) for budding stars.

But unlike Monroe, what's impressive about Harden is that with the increase in minutes he's also having an INSANE increase in efficiency - to the point where he's having one of the most efficient seasons in NBA history for a guard (65.3% TS%. That just about matches Nash's best year ever - and I think Nash's TS% might have been the highest ever for a guard... definitely in the past decade). And even including PF's/Centers that TS% is good enough for 1st overall nearly every year. So is his O-rating of 124.5. Unfortunately for him Tyson Chandler and his 1/2 foot 'shooting' radius has him putting up the highest TS% in league history and a legendary Offensive rating too. But obviously in context it is not even remotely as epic as what Harden is doing.

And not to mention his per-game numbers like points in assists making a rise in both actuality and on a PER-36 minute basis. Basically everything he's doing is phenomenal and he's a lock for 6th man. MIP? Yeah, he could actually be that also, but I'd still rather give it to a guy who I EXPECTED a rise in production from (tho' nobody probably anticipated it being this big).

So all that said I think it should still go to Ilyasova, who is seeing a major rise in both production and efficiency ala Harden. But he's a 26 year old 4th year 2nd round draft pick playing alongside the same B. Jennings and crew (not exactly known to make teammates better). Here's his numbers for anyone lazy but curious to check 'em out: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilyaser01.html

Steadily increasing the past couple months also. I think he even got himself a player of the week a couple weeks ago. Not something I thought I'd ever see from him.

:laugh2: I see what your trying to do.

We get it man, your still salty about the Warriors drafting Udoh ahead of Monroe. Get over it.

jbeezy
03-23-2012, 07:13 PM
Pekovic is a beast

tredigs
03-23-2012, 07:14 PM
:laugh2: I see what your trying to do.

We get it man, your still salty about the Warriors drafting Udoh ahead of Monroe. Get over it.

Uh... what?

#1: I was really happy with Udoh and wish to hell he was still with the team.

#2: In losing him we got a center who I will take all day every day ahead of Monroe. Broken bones don't scare me going forward (bad ankles on the other hand...).

#3: I was stating facts. "UNLIKE Monroe" (who I mentioned because many people are bringing up his name), James Harden both increased production AND efficiency. Monroe went from shooting 55.1% from the field to 51.5% from the field. His ft shooting going from sorry to a respectable 76% keeps the TS% from only taking a slight dip however, so that's good on him. His PER raised as well (largely due to an increase in Usage% and PPG, which PER loves), but his O-rating went from 120 to 110. Polar opposite situation as with Harden. Again, these are facts.

It's not like I have ill will towards Monroe or the Pistons. Frankly they're mostly irrelevant to me and the league as a whole at this point.

tredigs
03-23-2012, 07:21 PM
Lin's a tough one. Lin is essentially a rookie; only halfway through the year being given a chance to show what he can do in the league. 9 MPG in only about 1/3rd of the games in his actual rookie year isn't enough of a baseline for me to say he's drastically improved. Obviously his PER36 and everything else took a monster jump, but the minutes and opportunity just weren't there to get a good reading on him.

But he definitely wins the award for making the most of an opportunity. He's been a stud, there's no denying that.

Gators123
03-23-2012, 07:25 PM
Monroe went from having the 3rd lowest usage rate on the team last year (Only ahead of Ben Wallace and Maxiell) to having the highest usage rate on the team this year. Last year he had less than 10 plays called for him, basically all of his buckets came from put backs. Not the case this year. Hes a huge part of the offense. So his efficiency dropping a little isn't a huge deal.

FYI, The Warriors aren't contending for a ship anytime soon either...

Oh and I like Bogut, and it was fun watching Monroe DOMINATE him earlier this year :)

Baller1
03-23-2012, 07:32 PM
He has the argument, I just personally don't know if it should go to him being that he's a budding star in what is generally the breakout age/season (3rd) for budding stars.

But unlike Monroe, what's impressive about Harden is that with the increase in minutes he's also having an INSANE increase in efficiency - to the point where he's having one of the most efficient seasons in NBA history for a guard (65.3% TS%. That just about matches Nash's best year ever - and I think Nash's TS% might have been the highest ever for a guard... definitely in the past decade). And even including PF's/Centers that TS% is good enough for 1st overall nearly every year. So is his O-rating of 124.5. Unfortunately for him Tyson Chandler and his 1/2 foot 'shooting' radius has him putting up the highest TS% in league history and a legendary Offensive rating too. But obviously in context it is not even remotely as epic as what Harden is doing.

And not to mention his per-game numbers like points in assists making a rise in both actuality and on a PER-36 minute basis. Basically everything he's doing is phenomenal and he's a lock for 6th man. MIP? Yeah, he could actually be that also, but I'd still rather give it to a guy who I did not EXPECT a rise in production from (tho' nobody probably anticipated it being this big).

So all that said I think it should still go to Ilyasova, who is seeing a major rise in both production and efficiency ala Harden (not at his level, but it's all relative). He's a 26 year old 4th year 2nd round draft pick playing alongside the same B. Jennings and crew (not exactly known to make teammates better) who I don't think many if any saw such a massive uptick in his game coming. Here's his numbers for anyone lazy but curious to check 'em out: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilyaser01.html

Steadily increasing the past couple months also. I think he even got himself a player of the week a couple weeks ago. Not something I thought I'd ever see from him.

You basically said everything about Harden for me, haha. Did you ever get to see the article about Harden I posted a month or so ago?

I have no problem with Ilyasova getting it; I'm a closet Bucks fan. He's been on a crazy tear as of late. His rebounding abilities are insane for someone of his stature.

fadedmario
03-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Uh... what?

#1: I was really happy with Udoh and wish to hell he was still with the team.

#2: In losing him we got a center who I will take all day every day ahead of Monroe. Broken bones don't scare me going forward (bad ankles on the other hand...).

#3: I was stating facts. "UNLIKE Monroe" (who I mentioned because many people are bringing up his name), James Harden both increased production AND efficiency. Monroe went from shooting 55.1% from the field to 51.5% from the field. His ft shooting going from sorry to a respectable 76% keeps the TS% from only taking a slight dip however, so that's good on him. His PER raised as well (largely due to an increase in Usage% and PPG, which PER loves), but his O-rating went from 120 to 110. Polar opposite situation as with Harden. Again, these are facts.

It's not like I have ill will towards Monroe or the Pistons. Frankly they're mostly irrelevant to me and the league as a whole at this point.

:facepalm::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: Homer comment of the year. The Warriors are a mess. Monroe is 21 years old and already better than Bogut. Bogut is damaged goods anyway. Decent player but will never last because he's made of glass. Even the fans in San Francisco are a mess.

Baller1
03-23-2012, 07:39 PM
:facepalm::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: Homer comment of the year. The Warriors are a mess. Monroe is 21 years old and already better than Bogut. Bogut is damaged goods anyway. Decent player but will never last because he's made of glass. Even the fans in San Francisco are a mess.

It's a rare occurrence these days, but when Bogut is healthy your statement is absolutely false. Bogut is probably the third best center in the NBA when healthy.

Monroe is a great player that will be a great player soon enough, but he is not better than a healthy Bogut.

Also, there's no need for the attacks on Golden State and the fans.

fadedmario
03-23-2012, 07:44 PM
Uh... what?

#1: I was really happy with Udoh and wish to hell he was still with the team.

#2: In losing him we got a center who I will take all day every day ahead of Monroe. Broken bones don't scare me going forward (bad ankles on the other hand...).

#3: I was stating facts. "UNLIKE Monroe" (who I mentioned because many people are bringing up his name), James Harden both increased production AND efficiency. Monroe went from shooting 55.1% from the field to 51.5% from the field. His ft shooting going from sorry to a respectable 76% keeps the TS% from only taking a slight dip however, so that's good on him. His PER raised as well (largely due to an increase in Usage% and PPG, which PER loves), but his O-rating went from 120 to 110. Polar opposite situation as with Harden. Again, these are facts.

[B]It's not like I have ill will towards Monroe or the Pistons. Frankly they're mostly irrelevant to me and the league as a whole at this point.[=QUOTE

:laugh2: - The Warriors have had 1 playoff appearance in the last 18 Years.

The Pistons have had 12 playoff appearances, 6 division titles, 2 conference titles, 1 NBA title in the same span. Sorry if we have to rebuild. Anyone that has watched us play lately realizes the Pistons are a decent player away from being a playoff team (2012 Top 10 pick???). Our future looks fine to me. We also still have our amnesty clause and didn't use it on Charlie Bell :laugh:

The Golden State Warriors are the epitome of irrelevancy. #Winning

tredigs
03-23-2012, 07:47 PM
Detroit homers, I'm not going to derail the argument and engage you kids too thoroughly. I assure you that you can't and won't get under my skin. Your team is healthy/trying and still has a worse record than the W's. It's sad basketball over there in Detroit, and despite Monroe's impressive per-game numbers, his lack of commitment to D has them no better off when he's on the court. Hence: Them being terrible and poised for another lotto pick. These are facts. http://www.82games.com/1112/1112DET.HTM

More to the point, do you actually think his case is stronger than James Harden? Only argument I can see you resting your argument on would be that he's their focal point offensively and his decrease in efficiency is a result of that. Which is fair enough, but if that's going to be his role going forward it's something he'll have to get used to.

fadedmario
03-23-2012, 07:49 PM
It's a rare occurrence these days, but when Bogut is healthy your statement is absolutely false. Bogut is probably the third best center in the NBA when healthy.

Monroe is a great player that will be a great player soon enough, but he is not better than a healthy Bogut.

Also, there's no need for the attacks on Golden State and the fans.

How is the truth considered an attack? Golden State fans want to call the Pistons irrelevant when the Warriors have had one playoff appearance in 18 years. I'll defend my team when someone is spitting nonsense on here. The truth hurts - don't it? But it is clearly not an attack. Just a response to ignorant comment..

Baller1
03-23-2012, 07:53 PM
How is the truth considered an attack? Golden State fans want to call the Pistons irrelevant when the Warriors have had one playoff appearance in 18 years. I'll defend my team when someone is spitting nonsense on here. The truth hurts - don't it? But it is clearly not an attack. Just a response to ignorant comment..

Instead of talking about Bogut/Monroe, you decide to talk about my last comment. I didn't even mean anything offensive by it, it was just my two cents.

Gators123
03-23-2012, 07:54 PM
More to the point, do you actually think his case is stronger than James Harden? Only argument I can see you resting your argument on would be that he's their focal point offensively and his decrease in efficiency is a result of that. Which is fair enough, but if that's going to be his role going forward it's something he'll have to get used to.

I LOVE Harden, If he wins I wouldn't be mad at all. Hes a ****ing beast.

And I'm sure Monroe will get used to it because hes only 21 and in his second year.

tredigs
03-23-2012, 07:54 PM
How is the truth considered an attack? Golden State fans want to call the Pistons irrelevant when the Warriors have had one playoff appearance in 18 years. I'll defend my team when someone is spitting nonsense on here. The truth hurts - don't it? But it is clearly not an attack. Just a response to ignorant comment..

Fan*, I don't represent a fan base bud. And I'm living in the present, where they are absolutely irrelevant. As are the Warriors. But, we don't have 2/5ths of the starting lineup and are tanking... in the west at that. Detroit's guys are healthy and trying. I'm not seeing the comparison.

Enough with that nonsense though. You can have the last bait -- >

fadedmario
03-23-2012, 07:55 PM
Yeah On-topic - my choice is Harden or Anderson. Bynum has been a different player this year too.

Kashmir13579
03-23-2012, 08:00 PM
Pek or Lin.

itsripcity32
03-23-2012, 08:11 PM
Fan*, I don't represent a fan base bud. And I'm living in the present, where they are absolutely irrelevant. As are the Warriors. But, we don't have 2/5ths of the starting lineup and are tanking... in the west at that. Detroit's guys are healthy and trying. I'm not seeing the comparison.

Enough with that nonsense though. You can have the last bait -- >

What a joke comparison. Warriors just started "tanking." btw. Good thing you guys aren't getting a pick cus u guys would just screw up and pick some dude like UDOH, while some dude like Monroe is on the board ;)

NBA-GMaster
03-23-2012, 08:11 PM
JEREMY LIN =) from being the 12th man or reserve player into a starting PG..

Phenomenonsense
03-23-2012, 08:15 PM
I like Pekovic, but I think he might be due to Rubio. I really like Ersan but he's only done it more recently so I don't know if it will drop off, if not he's my top 3. Him and Anderson. I won't say anything about Monroe in the spirit of this thread, but I must wonder about the Bogut/Monroe argument. Didn't Monroe put up 32 and 16 on Bogut this year?

I'm sorry, but you don't take Bogut over Monroe right now period. There is a 7 year difference in age I believe and it is not in Bogut's favor.

tredigs
03-23-2012, 08:30 PM
I don't think people realize how impactful of a team defender Udoh is. His +/- both his years for GS wasn't a fluke. http://www.82games.com/1112/1112GSW.HTM. The dude has ridiculous bbiq on that end and has a motor that rivals anyone in the league. I have a feeling Skiles is going to realize that and give let him log big minutes sooner than later. Ultimate guy who you can't tell the impact of if you're just a box-score fan. Loved the pick and hated losing him in the trade. He's essentially the anti Tyreke Evans (fun numbers, but worthless team player and has little to no positive impact in winning games for Sac. Which in turn is a big reason why they rarely win games).

Only plus side of losing him is that now when I tout how much of a help a guy like him is on your team, it won't be looked at as homer talk.

tredigs
03-23-2012, 08:36 PM
@Phenom, I suppose that depends on your teams makeup. Do you have scorers and less than elite defensive talent around them? If so, take Bogut. If you have a lack of scoring and elite defensive wings ala Miami, I like the argument for Monroe. One head to head game (where Bogut had a stinger and had to sit the next game as a result) means literally nothing. Bucks won it, btw.

And Bogut's what, 27? Essentially prime for a center. Being that Monroe will likely dip out from Detroit the first chance he gets (Bogut too possibly), I'm not sure age is a huge factor there. Teams score at will against Monroe in the paint. Not the case with Bogut. That's why I want them. Winning type player.

Why am I still responding to that? Alright, now I'm done.

fadedmario
03-23-2012, 08:39 PM
@Phenom, I suppose that depends on your teams makeup. Do you have scorers and less than elite defensive talent around them? If so, take Bogut. If you have a lack of scoring and elite defensive wings ala Miami, I like the argument for Monroe. One head to head game (where Bogut had a stinger and had to sit the next game as a result) means literally nothing. Bucks won it, btw.

And Bogut's what, 27? Essentially prime for a center. Being that Monroe will likely dip out from Detroit the first chance he gets (Bogut too possibly), I'm not sure age is a huge factor there. Teams score at will against Monroe in the paint. Not the case with Bogut. That's why I want them. Winning type player.

Why am I still responding to that? Alright, now I'm done.

:facepalm: - back-handed baiting is still baiting

ManRam
03-23-2012, 08:41 PM
Anderson has always had this ability, and has always shown it. He's just getting the minutes now. Is that improving? IDK.

I mean, he has a whopping .237 WS/48 this year, but last year it was .217. That's not bad at all. Look at his per 36 minute numbers, they're identical. His percentages: about the same.

Minutes...he's just getting more of them so people are now noticing. He's improved a little, but not drastically.

Most everyone on this list has actually gotten better. Harden the most IMO. My vote is for him.

I love Monroe too...so I'd vote for him as well if I could. Dude was robbed from the AS game.

Lim
03-23-2012, 11:52 PM
according to PSD he's overrated and brook lopez is better. Lopez isn't even a top 5 center.

lol whoever said that is half ********

tyfreaks brotha
03-24-2012, 12:30 AM
Jason Thompson. If you've seen the Kings play you'll agree with me...

Phenomenonsense
03-24-2012, 12:37 AM
@Phenom, I suppose that depends on your teams makeup. Do you have scorers and less than elite defensive talent around them? If so, take Bogut. If you have a lack of scoring and elite defensive wings ala Miami, I like the argument for Monroe. One head to head game (where Bogut had a stinger and had to sit the next game as a result) means literally nothing. Bucks won it, btw.

And Bogut's what, 27? Essentially prime for a center. Being that Monroe will likely dip out from Detroit the first chance he gets (Bogut too possibly), I'm not sure age is a huge factor there. Teams score at will against Monroe in the paint. Not the case with Bogut. That's why I want them. Winning type player.

Why am I still responding to that? Alright, now I'm done.

You have no idea "defensively" what Monroe does. He doesn't jump, he doesn't block shots. He takes charges. He plays strong post D and on Man D. Boozer will score on him, he plays well against Howard. Our problem is team Defense and rotations. Monroe often rotates to someone who beat Ben Gordon/Bynum/Knight and no one rotates to his man. Maxiell's Defense is primarily blocked shots, not subtle movements. Not saying Monroe doesn't have defensive lapses, but he doesn't get credit for what he does do.

Mr_Amaziing
03-24-2012, 01:41 AM
James Harden

FEAR The BEARD

Teeboy1487
03-24-2012, 01:58 AM
Between Ryan Anderson and James Harden.

Fireworld
03-24-2012, 02:44 AM
Andrew Bynum with Kyle Lowry a close second.

AntiG
03-24-2012, 02:50 AM
Lin by far. The guy was playing in the D-League last year and now has developed into one of the better starting PGs in the league.

LAOwnsAll15
03-24-2012, 03:29 AM
Lin by far. The guy was playing in the D-League last year and now has developed into one of the better starting PGs in the league.

:speechless: the ****

Hawkeye15
03-24-2012, 11:07 AM
Lowry and Pekovic are the 2 that I think have the claim to the award, but Lowry has missed a lot of time due to injury/illness, and Pek same thing, along with not getting a lot of playing time the first 20 games. This years MIP will be a boring one imo. I would guess Lin gets it, though Pek and Lowry have shown all star potential (remember, all star potential at the center position is 18-10 which Pek is capable of obviously), versus Lin showing he is going to be a capable starting PG.

NYMetros
03-24-2012, 11:23 AM
Bynum

KnicksR4Real
03-24-2012, 11:35 AM
Of course its Lin

torocan
03-24-2012, 12:04 PM
Given the MIP vote is partially popularity vs stat based and the votes are by Sportswriters (notice how many great players are omitted from perennial top 5/10 lists), and Lin isn't eligible for nomination under Rookie of the Year, assuming Lin doesn't completely meltdown in the last stretch of the season I find it hard to believe that Lin wouldn't end up winning it.

While alot of sportswriters may not give Lin the #1 vote, he'll probably get enough #1's (5 points), #2's (3 points) and #3's (1 point) that he'll end up winning it.

He may get it simply because he's the biggest NBA story of the year so far and will stay near the top of the consciousness of the voters.

BradfordIsElite
03-24-2012, 12:45 PM
Of the players mentioned, the best is Andrew Bynum. Only difference was, if he hadn't gone through so many knee injuries prior, he would've probably already been at this level heading into the season.

Nonetheless, Monroe and Ryan Anderson are the obv choices for me.
Harden hasn't come off as much a surprise, we knew he had the ability in him and he already has had success at this level.

UPRock
03-24-2012, 01:04 PM
Jeremy Lin.

DR_1
03-24-2012, 01:09 PM
I can see everyone but Illyasova on this list winning the award.

Baller1
03-24-2012, 01:44 PM
I can see everyone but Illyasova on this list winning the award.

Ilyasova is arguably the most deserving.

kdspurman
03-24-2012, 02:16 PM
Like every other award in the NBA this will be a popularity contest. Not to the one who really deserves it

Deemerc
03-24-2012, 02:33 PM
Lin most improved, shumpert rookie of the year, toss up between amare and melo for MVP

lakersiznumber1
03-24-2012, 02:49 PM
andrew bynum

ManRam
03-24-2012, 02:57 PM
I can see everyone but Illyasova on this list winning the award.

Statistically he is one of the 2 to 3 most deserving IMO. The improvement he's made is amazing. Also, unlike guys like Lin, Pekovic etc. who are just sophomores hitting their strides after slow rookie seasons...he's been in the league for a while now, and just hasn't been very good until this year...and this year he's been amazing.

ManRam
03-24-2012, 03:01 PM
I'd argue that Bynum hasn't really improved all that much, he's just getting minutes + staying healthy. His game is only a little bit better than what it was last year...and at the very least the gap isn't close to the gap between last year and this year for guys like Harden, Ersan, and a good bunch of the other guys...

metsfan99999
03-24-2012, 03:15 PM
It is Lin and it is not even close. He went from a fringe NBA player to Linsanity. How is this even an argument?

Teeboy1487
03-24-2012, 03:22 PM
Bynum should have received this award 3-4 years ago. I'm not surprised he has played so well. He has been playing well since 07/08 when he should have received this award if he did not get injured.

Trueblue2
03-24-2012, 03:56 PM
Homer pick: Sessions

Non Homer pick: Bynum

Wisdom Listens
03-24-2012, 04:13 PM
Kevin Love for most improved most improved player.

CoffeeJanitor
03-24-2012, 05:08 PM
Lin will almost assuredly win, but only because of his story. His play as of late isn't all that crazy, it was more that 7 game stretch, and even then it was only because he was the first option and finally got PT.

I'd give my vote to Pekovic.

FarOutIos
03-24-2012, 05:30 PM
Seems to me like everyone picking bynum and monroe are just being homers...

The amount that a player has to improve to be considered for the award is a little more drastic than their stats have shown. Bynum, for example, has had flashes of being very good, but just could not stay healthy.

I think lin is the only sure bet for the award. Going from being barely on a team... to starting and creating such a buzz... That's what this award is about. Some of the other players do deserve some recognition... but as of now... 90% of answers should be lin.

tredigs
03-24-2012, 06:44 PM
Seems to me like everyone picking bynum and monroe are just being homers...

The amount that a player has to improve to be considered for the award is a little more drastic than their stats have shown. Bynum, for example, has had flashes of being very good, but just could not stay healthy.

I think lin is the only sure bet for the award. Going from being barely on a team... to starting and creating such a buzz... That's what this award is about. Some of the other players do deserve some recognition... but as of now... 90% of answers should be lin.

A 2nd year player (basically rookie) who was never given a chance to start and truly showcase his capabilities is not "most improved" by any definition I know. Just best at taking advantage of the opportunity.

Upon further review, I still think the best choice is Ilyasova. Came out of nowhere to have a really solid season. Everything from per-game stats, %'s and Advanced stats have him better than ever.

I still don't like the idea of this award for a 2nd or even 3rd year player - especially if their improvement was expected.

mRc08
03-24-2012, 07:06 PM
Ronnie brewer has a case. Stepped up for the all the injuries and has played great, the best of his career. Homer pick, and there may be others more deserving, but he has improved tremendously

NYMetros
03-24-2012, 07:17 PM
Bynum should have received this award 3-4 years ago. I'm not surprised he has played so well. He has been playing well since 07/08 when he should have received this award if he did not get injured.

That's the thing with him, he gets hurt every year. I really just want to see him put together a full 80 (or in this case 66) game season. He has the potential to be the best center in the game if he can put these injuries behind him.

FarOutIos
03-24-2012, 07:24 PM
A 2nd year player (basically rookie) who was never given a chance to start and truly showcase his capabilities is not "most improved" by any definition I know. Just best at taking advantage of the opportunity.

Upon further review, I still think the best choice is Ilyasova. Came out of nowhere to have a really solid season. Everything from per-game stats, %'s and Advanced stats have him better than ever.

I still don't like the idea of this award for a 2nd or even 3rd year player - especially if their improvement was expected.

The award by nature is given to players who take advantage of a situation... I really don't see how bynum can be considered... as he had a strong year in 07-08 as well... then he just had a couple of off years.

Also, many of the players people have been naming have actually had worse shooting percentages, rebounds per minute or assist per minute numbers. If a player is "truly" improved... those numbers should be going up as well.

For example... Greg Monroe shot 55% last year... but only 51% this year... Improved?

Thus, a "truly improved" player should have improved %s... and totals.

IF that's the case... then I could be a homer and name Demarcus Cousins for the award. In only 2 more minutes a game, he as a better shooting % than last year... a better FT % than last year... better rebounds... more points... more blocks... more steals... fewer turnovers...

Only thing he has regressed in is assists.

But... this is not a "true" most improved player award... it usually coincides with opportunity. And the NBA marketing plans. So... Lin it is.

sunsfan88
03-24-2012, 07:38 PM
I voted Pekovic but I'm shocked that there's no Marcin Gortat on the list!

Kings&BucsFan
03-25-2012, 12:31 AM
Jason Thompson. If you've seen the Kings play you'll agree with me...

No. Quit being a homer.

NBAfan4life
03-25-2012, 12:47 AM
Pekovic

If he played for New York he would be considered as good as Howard by New York fans

LakersIn5
03-25-2012, 01:46 AM
kobe should have won MIP in 07 from 27 ppg to 36 ppg. :p

tyfreaks brotha
03-25-2012, 02:47 AM
Jason Thompson. If you've seen the Kings play you'll agree with me...

No. Quit being a homer. How about you watch the Kings play and then talk to me. He's had several games where he's gone 9/10 15 boards. Before today he was averaging 65%.

Just keep trollin

Knicks21
03-25-2012, 03:03 AM
It has to be Jeremy Lin, other players have a case, but he has made to big of a jump to not win the award.

Losoway
03-25-2012, 04:10 AM
lol wow this dude posted a whole essay

but to be short and simple ryan anderson

smiddy012
03-25-2012, 04:17 AM
John Lucas the Turd.

BKdoubleStacker
03-25-2012, 04:37 AM
how does lin even qualify???

he hardly played last year at all

todu82
03-25-2012, 09:37 AM
James Harden

GiantsSwaGG
03-25-2012, 09:44 AM
Steve Novak

Furymaker
03-25-2012, 10:04 AM
pekovic

ATLPRIMETIME21
03-25-2012, 01:23 PM
I'm gonna have to go with Josh Smith. He has really gone from the 2nd or 3rd best player on the Hawks to the go to guy. Last night he put up 32 points 17 reb and 3 blocks oh and 5 assists. I guess this is the year he will finally live up to his potential

FraziersKnicks
03-25-2012, 01:45 PM
The media will probably give it to Lin because they're still wrapped up in all the hype.

I really like Monroe for it though. Not usually a fan of a 2nd year guy getting MIP because the improvement should be expected, but I think he's demonstrated this season that he's already among the best centers in the league.

Anderson, Harden and Bynum are all good options who deserve recognition as well. Good season for vastly improving players.

Lakeshow24KB
03-25-2012, 01:57 PM
Marcin Gortat

JWO35
03-25-2012, 03:39 PM
I would love to see Monroe get it since I watched him grow from a a guy who got "DNP-Coaches Decisions" for about 2 months to getting a chance and getting everything he put up sent back in his face....to now a legit Big averaging 16/9, all in 1yrs progress.

lakersfan01
03-25-2012, 03:51 PM
Bynum.

Lin is a hell of a surprise, but he isn't necessarily improved, he's just getting playing time now. It's not like he played enough last year to "improve" from.

torocan
03-25-2012, 04:07 PM
Bynum.

Lin is a hell of a surprise, but he isn't necessarily improved, he's just getting playing time now. It's not like he played enough last year to "improve" from.

Well, except for this part...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/sports/basketball/the-evolution-of-jeremy-lin-as-a-point-guard.html?pagewanted=all

and this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLzrLXQIbwM

Kid's been a worker his whole life.

The fame happened overnight. His play didn't.

cyph34
03-31-2012, 06:12 PM
MIP is a little weird because Lin and Gortat just didn't get minutes. They did improve, but it's more on playing time.

beasted86
03-31-2012, 06:15 PM
Lin will be the runaway favorite unless he just collapses over the last set of games.

kjoke
03-31-2012, 06:19 PM
Lin will be the runaway favorite unless he just collapses over the last set of games.

WTF beasted, AS YOU SAY THIS, ESPN reports Lin is out 6 weeks with torn meniscus

beasted86
03-31-2012, 06:37 PM
WTF beasted, AS YOU SAY THIS, ESPN reports Lin is out 6 weeks with torn meniscus

Oops, then nevermind, he might not have played enough games to qualify.

FraziersKnicks
03-31-2012, 06:40 PM
Lin will be the runaway favorite unless he just collapses over the last set of games.

Curse you.. :mad:

Seriously though, Lin probably would've got it.. Undeservedly in my opinion. The whole Linsanity and ESPN rimming him would've been enough. As a Knicks fan I can genuinely say I don't think he is the most deserving.

I don't really like giving it to 2nd year players because they should be improving substantially, although Cousins and Monroe both have extremely good cases. Ryan Anderson and Marcin Gortat also have strong cases, and probably a few others I'm forgetting.

Iodine
03-31-2012, 06:48 PM
No second year player should get it, Lin is an anomaly for that, but still.

Gimme Ryno

thekmp211
03-31-2012, 06:52 PM
Anderson is probably the most appropriate choice. i would have been fine with lin winning it, cousins and gortat were already good imo. gortat in particular just needed a chance. cousins needed to not be coached by paul westphal.

fadedmario
03-31-2012, 06:57 PM
lol at Cousins

Iodine
03-31-2012, 07:04 PM
lol at Cousins

Another timeless post by you.
Your probably just sad he didnt post a four thousand piece on why Greg Monroe is the greatest player ever conceived.

avrpatsfan
03-31-2012, 07:53 PM
Cousins

waveycrockett
03-31-2012, 08:09 PM
Hell no to cousins. This guy is shooting 44%. That is pathetic for a big man whose game isnt behind the arc.

metsfanssince05
03-31-2012, 08:46 PM
Doubt this would happen but Novak should be in this talk. Shooting lights out for a while now.

FraziersKnicks
03-31-2012, 08:52 PM
James Harden absolutely deserves consideration as well

69centers
04-01-2012, 12:40 AM
Ersan Ilyasova is the clear choice to me. Dude has just stepped up his game all over. Scoring, rebounding, efficiency - it's all finally coming together for him. Especially in these past couple months.

Count my vote for Ersanity, too.

torocan
04-01-2012, 12:43 AM
The field is probably wide open again with Lin injured.

Ryan Anderson has a decent case, as do the others.

Rest of the season will probably give us a better idea.

THE MTL
04-01-2012, 12:55 AM
Definitely Jeremey Lin. He went from zero to hero. He didnt even have stats from previous seasons lol to staring PG for the Knicks and doing a damn good job at it too.

Andrew Bynum has already shown flashes and actually already had good seasons that were hampered by injury.

James Harden while he has improved, I dont think the improvement curve is that high for him to be MIP.

Now, I'll make a case for Kyle Lowery cause he has truly elevated his game to stardom. Ryan Anderson is another true candidate. He has completely elevated his game and the improvement curve is very high for him

However, no one has improvement more from last season to this season, more than Jeremy Lin.

topdog
04-01-2012, 01:01 AM
Kevin love

Darn! Beat me to it :mad:

Raph12
04-01-2012, 03:56 AM
I got Harden here, I don't know why he's not getting more votes, dude has played at an AS level all season...

tredigs
04-01-2012, 04:09 AM
I got Harden here, I don't know why he's not getting more votes, dude has played at an AS level all season...

Because he was a projected breakout star is why I didn't.

Ilyasova on the other hand? That's a true/random MIP.

Baller1
04-01-2012, 06:33 AM
Ersan definitely deserves more votes.

69centers
04-01-2012, 09:09 AM
However, no one has improvement more from last season to this season, more than Jeremy Lin.

It's not really an improvement when you play less than 10 minutes your first year. Any player in the NBA who goes from playing 9 MPG to 27 MPG is going to show an improvement. Also, he hasn't played enough games this season to be considered.