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View Full Version : I love D-Rose, but could he be a little overrated?



cyph34
03-20-2012, 12:01 AM
I'm starting to wonder, as the Bulls have been playing fairly well without D-Rose this season, which is very apparent as of late with a win over the Heat and a blowout win over the Magic. Tibs' system is absolutely diesel. Not saying that the other players can't play as clearly Deng/Noah/Boozer can ball, so D-Rose may be getting too much credit. And after this, I think CP3 should be first team.

justinnum1
03-20-2012, 12:01 AM
No.

NoahH
03-20-2012, 12:05 AM
D-Rose edges out Paul by a nose

stawka
03-20-2012, 12:05 AM
Inb4JBwritesa168,865,875,352wordessay

MJ-BULLS
03-20-2012, 12:06 AM
DRose is not overrated. One of the main reasons as to why they are winning is our depth. we are a deep team, and we have lucas Lightning up other teams.

Fnom11
03-20-2012, 12:07 AM
Rose is a helluva player. Definitely up there in the top5(everyone's list varies but he's at least top 5 guaranteed).

Kuya_Clive
03-20-2012, 12:07 AM
first CP3 and now Rose. What's next, Lebron?

Fnom11
03-20-2012, 12:07 AM
DRose is not overrated. One of the main reasons as to why they are winning is our depth. we are a deep team, and we have lucas Lightning up other teams.

Before he went off on the Heat I recall dozens of Bulls fans hating the guy(Lucas).

MJ-BULLS
03-20-2012, 12:09 AM
Before he went off on the Heat I recall dozens of Bulls fans hating the guy(Lucas).

lucas has been bad in past years, but this year he is shooting great from the 3 point line and is shooting a much better FG the last couple of games. he is playing like our mini JJ barea. small, but is quick and can score.

Raps08-09 Champ
03-20-2012, 12:10 AM
**** Rose.

Sox72
03-20-2012, 12:16 AM
Before he went off on the Heat I recall dozens of Bulls fans hating the guy(Lucas).

I still hate him.

esterrke
03-20-2012, 12:17 AM
Inb4JBwritesa168,865,875,352wordessay http://www.bicidi.info/jpg1Bwritesa168,865,875,352wordessay

Fnom11
03-20-2012, 12:17 AM
I still hate him.

Me too :(

72 Wins
03-20-2012, 12:23 AM
Fck this thread.

ramz.n
03-20-2012, 12:23 AM
heart and soul player who playing for his hometown doesn't seem like he'll ever be titled as an overrated player.

Silent
03-20-2012, 12:24 AM
holy **** Rose getting alot of love from the heat fans the world is gonna end

ManRam
03-20-2012, 12:24 AM
He's not overrated...

His cast/team is, and hopefully was (past tense), underrated. There might not be a great #2 option, but that team is just so perfectly constructed.


The team playing well without him doesn't make him any less of the player that he so obviously is...

lavilevi23
03-20-2012, 12:27 AM
Maybe slightly overrated since he's not a pure PG and doesn't shoot or pass as well as Paul, but he's still the best PG in the league at getting to the rim and one of the best slashers in the nba. I'd take Wade ahead of Kobe for 1st team all nba and put Rose or Paul at the 2nd guard spot.

Silent
03-20-2012, 12:29 AM
Maybe slightly overrated since he's not a pure PG and doesn't shoot as well as Paul, but he's still the best PG in the league in getting to the rim and one of the best slashers in the nba. I'd take Wade ahead of Kobe for 1st team all nba and put Rose or Paul at the 2nd guard spot.

If kobe is even mentioned for first team it will be disrespect to wade kobe been playing kobe ball no team game what so ever

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 12:29 AM
If you watch Lucas, there is no lane ever because he doesn't demand an isolation. When Rose is on the court, everyone gets open because everyone has to keep an eye in case of he comes near because he demands a double team. Just like LBJ, one on one you can't stop him.

Lucas has shot the ball great this year but overall he's not a very good player. I am just glad to see the bulls are playing good without D Rose and if anyone deserves more credit it's Thibs.

davids22
03-20-2012, 12:31 AM
Well he's not a pure PG and can't shoot the ball as well as CP3, but he is a great slasher and can get to the rim. Chris Paul is a better POINT GUARD but Derrick Rose is a better BASKETBALL PLAYER, as in he has more of an impact on his team (IMO).

He's hella good, Chicago fans over-rate the hell out of him, but that doesn't mean he's not top 5 in the NBA.

Oh, and I also can't wait to read JB's essay lol.

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 12:31 AM
Wade>>>>>>>>>Kobe at this stage of their careers.

As much as I dislike Wade, he would NEVER go 3-20 from the field. He has one of the purest shots in basketball.

ManRam
03-20-2012, 12:32 AM
The term "pure point guard" is such a silly term.

Give me a PG that can score AND pass selflessly on a team that moves the ball as fluidly and selflessly as the Bulls do any day of the week. I'll take that offense over any offense that relies on one player to do all the play-making.

Hell, he's 8th in assists per 36 minutes...that's good enough. He does what he needs to make his team win, so who cares about labels like "pure" or "scoring" or whatever??


Jon Lucas has just been draining shots...and not really anything else. Him doing well is also no reason to smear Rose.

lavilevi23
03-20-2012, 12:34 AM
Kobe chucks too much

Raph12
03-20-2012, 12:34 AM
I still got CP3 ahead of him, but Rose is top 7 in my book... He's really good, but the Bulls fans overrated him because they thought he was the only factor in their success last season.

ThunderousDemon
03-20-2012, 12:37 AM
D-Rose is a straight up beast, he's the best PG in the NBA in my opinion.

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 12:40 AM
I still got CP3 ahead of him, but Rose is top 7 in my book... He's really good, but the Bulls fans overrated him because they thought he was the only factor in their success last season.

As a bulls fan, I know how much Thibs is one of the main reason this team wins. Rose has some AWFUL nights but the players have bought into the system and play well in it.

Rose was insane last year, but look what rookie coach broke the record in wins and won coach of the year?

Thibs is almost as vital to this team as Rose is. Both are REALLY good when it comes to the game of basketball.

cyph34
03-20-2012, 12:41 AM
Agreed Wade 1st team, Kobe 2nd

justinnum1
03-20-2012, 12:43 AM
Agreed Wade 1st team, Kobe 2nd

for sure

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 12:46 AM
Kobe's fg percentage is really bad. Anyone in the league can chuck 27 shots a night and score 30 points.

effen5
03-20-2012, 12:47 AM
So last year rose had no help against the heat but now he's overrated because the team is doing well without him? :facepalm:

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 12:51 AM
Just like th Heat.....Bulls had a new coach and new system. Now playing together for over a year, they are just a better team. Not surprising they can win without Rose some nights. They are just a better team because the system is really working for all of them.

Bulls don't have the star power, but they have a really good overall staff and team.

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 12:53 AM
PS.......Heat are a much better team then last year as well, no denying that at all. Of all the nba teams in the league, that team could turn a 10 point difference within a minute. With their deadly shooters and defense, no lead is EVER safe against them.

CrazyCrackar
03-20-2012, 01:05 AM
Crazy world we live in. People expect too much. As soon as someone is labeled great, people build up these crazy expectations, and as soon as they fall short they immediately throw out "hes overrated." These guys are human, even MJ had off nights. Rose aint perfect(no one is), but hes definitely GREAT.That goes for guys like Lebron, Kobe, Melo, the typical people who PSD seems to try and hate on.(had to throw Melo in being a knick fan :rolleyes: )

RSA27
03-20-2012, 01:13 AM
Bulls have a .8235 win pct when rose plays this season, they have a .7142 win pct when he doesn't play, if those numbers were reversed I might agree that he is overrated.

kozelkid
03-20-2012, 01:16 AM
I still got CP3 ahead of him, but Rose is top 7 in my book... He's really good, but the Bulls fans overrated him because they thought he was the only factor in their success last season.

Last year he had a MUCH bigger effect on our team's success than this year. Our offense has been at a whole different level this season as evident from our jump in o-rating from 12th to 2nd this season. Thibs made a few key adjustments along with Boozer and Noah finally being healthy and learning to play off one another.

Bottom line, scoring wise Rose was absolutely critical and kept us from being terrible offensively last season. This season, however, with our ball movement and spacing, and again, Boozer and Noah finally building chemistry with one another, is a different story.

And seriously, stop putting words in a fanbase mouth. No rational Bulls fan EVER said that Rose was the only reason the Bulls were good. We ALWAYS talked about how much of a genius coach Thibs is.

jim51990
03-20-2012, 01:19 AM
d - will is the best pg
then cp3
then rose and westbrook are neck and neck id take westy

smiddy012
03-20-2012, 01:25 AM
I don't think he's as good of a lay as some Bulls fan's wet dreams might lead you to believe, otherwise I say he's not overated.

Statistically he doesn't have the advantage Wade has, namely another super-star player to open things up for you, nor does he even have a Bosh (Boozer is comparable on one of his good nights, against a non-elite team, to Bosh but is relatively inconsistent). But on the flip side he defenitely has more to work with than Kobe, who really doesn't have another quality perimeter player to play off of. Give, hypothetically, all 3 guys the same tools to work with and I'd say they'd be quite comparable, it would be a crap shoot as to who's first, second, third between those three on a given night. Obviously Rose hasn't payed his dues as a young 23 yr old like the other two, so I'd be comfortable saying he's number 3, its just hard to put a ceiling on his capabilities, even when we're just talking this season.

smiddy012
03-20-2012, 01:27 AM
d - will is the best pg
then cp3
then rose and westbrook are neck and neck id take westy

First bad/ignorant post in this thread. I got to hand it to the posters here so far for keeping things rational.

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 01:30 AM
Westy over Rose? =/

abe_froman
03-20-2012, 01:32 AM
so it cant be that rose is really great but also has a good/great team around him,it must be one or the other? ....when has anyone ever been held to that logic?

this type of thinking annoys the hell out of me,because its impossible to have a great player on a great team?(except 5 teams every year since the bringing of the league.kd must be overrated since thunder would still be good without him,lebron must suck because heat would still be good without him:rolleyes: )

Kuya_Clive
03-20-2012, 01:34 AM
Last year he had a MUCH bigger effect on our team's success than this year. Our offense has been at a whole different level this season as evident from our jump in o-rating from 12th to 2nd this season. Thibs made a few key adjustments along with Boozer and Noah finally being healthy and learning to play off one another.

Bottom line, scoring wise Rose was absolutely critical and kept us from being terrible offensively last season. This season, however, with our ball movement and spacing, and again, Boozer and Noah finally building chemistry with one another, is a different story.

And seriously, stop putting words in a fanbase mouth. No rational Bulls fan EVER said that Rose was the only reason the Bulls were good. We ALWAYS talked about how much of a genius coach Thibs is.

Great to see these guys able to play together this year. Last year, they didn't really play together a whole lot due to injuries and when they did, one of them played well while the other did not. These guys, actually the whole team, has really developed amazing chemistry and I love it.

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 01:34 AM
Because the rest of the bulls, including their coach aren't good.

Also, Rose is overrated.

Wait, wut?

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 01:35 AM
That's the whole thing, a year and a half playing together in the same system and Boozer and Noah(out of all people) have stayed healthy.

I've never liked Noah as a person, but the guy is playing great this year.

Raph12
03-20-2012, 02:51 AM
As a bulls fan, I know how much Thibs is one of the main reason this team wins. Rose has some AWFUL nights but the players have bought into the system and play well in it.

Rose was insane last year, but look what rookie coach broke the record in wins and won coach of the year?

Thibs is almost as vital to this team as Rose is. Both are REALLY good when it comes to the game of basketball.

Need more posters like you posting on behalf of Bulls fans, Rose has actually played better this season, more efficient and doing less has helped his team play a lot better.


Last year he had a MUCH bigger effect on our team's success than this year. Our offense has been at a whole different level this season as evident from our jump in o-rating from 12th to 2nd this season. Thibs made a few key adjustments along with Boozer and Noah finally being healthy and learning to play off one another.

Bottom line, scoring wise Rose was absolutely critical and kept us from being terrible offensively last season. This season, however, with our ball movement and spacing, and again, Boozer and Noah finally building chemistry with one another, is a different story.

And seriously, stop putting words in a fanbase mouth. No rational Bulls fan EVER said that Rose was the only reason the Bulls were good. We ALWAYS talked about how much of a genius coach Thibs is.

Actually Rose has has a bigger impact on your team this season. By turning the ball over less, passing more and moving the ball more on offense instead of the iso game he ran last season, your team's offense is much improved. Thibs let Rose facilitate the offense to his will last season, Rose seems much more poised and disciplined this season, playing under control more.

As for the "putting words in a fanbase mouth" comment, three seperate posters had told me that the Bulls would be a lottery team without Rose... That's how badly they underrated his supporting cast.

...

Like I said, I got him ranked 6th/7th in my personal rankings (behind Lebron, Dwight, Durant, Wade and CP3; tied with Kobe), some have him a bit higher and I heard some people claim he was the best player in the league last season.

#just saying

Sadds The Gr8
03-20-2012, 02:59 AM
Last year he had a MUCH bigger effect on our team's success than this year. Our offense has been at a whole different level this season as evident from our jump in o-rating from 12th to 2nd this season. Thibs made a few key adjustments along with Boozer and Noah finally being healthy and learning to play off one another.

Bottom line, scoring wise Rose was absolutely critical and kept us from being terrible offensively last season. This season, however, with our ball movement and spacing, and again, Boozer and Noah finally building chemistry with one another, is a different story.

And seriously, stop putting words in a fanbase mouth. No rational Bulls fan EVER said that Rose was the only reason the Bulls were good. We ALWAYS talked about how much of a genius coach Thibs is.

actually alot of Bulls fans said this last year when people argued against him for being MVP.

naps
03-20-2012, 03:02 AM
Rose is a fantastic player. He's not overrated by NBA fans. I am sure everyone realizes he's a special player. I don't like the Bulls but I am not dumb not to see his greatness. However, most Bulls fans overrate the hell out of him. Bulls have been consistently beating top class teams without Rose. That proves that Bulls are an amazingly built team as opposed to what most Bulls fans tend to believe just to hand all the credits to Rose. But does that mean they will beat a team like Heat without Rose in the playoffs? Hell NO. Rose is their most important player but Tibs is the most important catalyst of Bulls success.

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 03:05 AM
A huge factor in the bulls success this year is that Noah is not only getting his rebounds, he has become somewhat a scoring threat. He has really improved on his jumper and is actually trying to dunk a lot. Boozer is money with his jumpshot, it's ugly but it works. If he could find it in him to dunk the ball or take it to the whole they would even become a better team. Don't know what happened to him, but he's scared to take it to the hole. Regardless, Boozer is playing a lot better this year and is healthy.

The rest of the team is playing a lot better as well on both sides of the court. Taj is one of the better backup pf's in the game and Watson/Asik/Korver can always help out on either side of the court, well Korver and Watson can't play a lick of d.

Rip will be the guy that will give them a chance to beat the heat if he is ready to go. He has played well when healthy and he's the key. That is of course is Rose/Deng are also healthy.

Interesting year, I can't wait for the playoffs.

D1JM
03-20-2012, 03:46 AM
I'm starting to wonder, as the Bulls have been playing fairly well without D-Rose this season, which is very apparent as of late with a win over the Heat and a blowout win over the Magic. Tibs' system is absolutely diesel. Not saying that the other players can't play as clearly Deng/Noah/Boozer can ball, so D-Rose may be getting too much credit. And after this, I think CP3 should be first team.

it's not that we don't give credit to the rest of the players, but it's because rose makes everyone better because of the attention he demands. it helps also that everyone has a year together, they understand each other better and most importantly trust each other.

metsbulls1025
03-20-2012, 03:50 AM
Before he went off on the Heat I recall dozens of Bulls fans hating the guy(Lucas).

When he first came in he was god awful. He is still a chucker, but he is hitting his shots now. When we played the Heat the first time he was taken out after 3 minutes because he couldn't handle the game. He never was put back in and Rose played the rest of the game. He has learned the system, still chucks, the only different is he is making his shots.

nitric
03-20-2012, 04:27 AM
How can people say Rose didn't deserve the MVP after tonights game and then turn around and claim Dwight Howard should have won when his team got blown out by a Rose-less Bulls..

D1JM
03-20-2012, 04:48 AM
Rose is a fantastic player. He's not overrated by NBA fans. I am sure everyone realizes he's a special player. I don't like the Bulls but I am not dumb not to see his greatness. However, most Bulls fans overrate the hell out of him. Bulls have been consistently beating top class teams without Rose. That proves that Bulls are an amazingly built team as opposed to what most Bulls fans tend to believe just to hand all the credits to Rose. But does that mean they will beat a team like Heat without Rose in the playoffs? Hell NO. Rose is their most important player but Tibs is the most important catalyst of Bulls success.

agreed here. we can win regular season games without him, but once playoffs come, we need him.

JJ_JKidd
03-20-2012, 05:04 AM
Define "overrated" please? :facepalm:

MOST
03-20-2012, 05:27 AM
I'm still thinking about the Laker fans saying they didn't want our trash for gasol. Love our depth so far

MOST
03-20-2012, 05:28 AM
Playoffs hopefully were healthy is all that really matters

MOST
03-20-2012, 05:37 AM
Should of took scalabrine lol jk

Champology
03-20-2012, 06:52 AM
Thread should be changed to are the Heat and Majic overrated? They are the teams at full strength that lost to the Bulls without Rose.

BULLSFAN0810
03-20-2012, 08:56 AM
I'm starting to wonder, as the Bulls have been playing fairly well without D-Rose this season, which is very apparent as of late with a win over the Heat and a blowout win over the Magic. Tibs' system is absolutely diesel. Not saying that the other players can't play as clearly Deng/Noah/Boozer can ball, so D-Rose may be getting too much credit. And after this, I think CP3 should be first team.



BAIT...but i will reply...(I DONT KNOW IF YOUR TEAM HAS WON, iT SEEMS NO) but a championship team to be considered a good team MUST BE ABLE TO PLAY AT THE SAME CLIP FOR A PERIOD OF TIME TO BE CONSIDERED WORTHY WITHOUT THERE BEST PLAYERS OTHERWISE THEY ARENT GOOD...IE TAKE AWAY 1 OF MIAMIs BIG 3 THEY STILL PLAY WELL...THE FACT YOU SHOULD BE AMAZED AT IS THE GENERALS SITTING THE FOOT SOLIDERS ARE HOLDING FORT...NOT SOME BAIT THREAD PINING OVER SOME PG WHO WAS...WAS....WAS...WAS THE BEST PG;AND TO COMPARE CP3 AND ROSE CP3 MUST BE A MVP TYPE PLAYER...NOT HAVING A YEAR OR 2 OF MVP LIKE PLAY.. I MEAN BACK TO BACK ...WHEN THAT HAPPENS YOU TALK CP3 THEN OTHERWISE YOU SEEM SO SMALL AND UNINTELLIGENT.TRYING TO SAY THE TEAM STEPPING UP IS REASON WHY ROSE ISNT GOOD AS THOUGHT...BULL-SKYPE. JORDAN SAT OUT...THE B TEAM WOULD CRUSH YOU..DOES THAT MEAN MJ IS LESSER? NO...IT MEANS HE GOT HIS PPL IN ORDER..AND THEYRE SENDING A MESSAGE TO THE NBA..

gaughan333
03-20-2012, 09:17 AM
Before he went off on the Heat I recall dozens of Bulls fans hating the guy(Lucas).

Many of us still hate him

Ezio
03-20-2012, 09:36 AM
I still hate Lucas. He makes shots sure but most of the time he dribbles out the clock thinking he's Nash and then throws up a fade away 3 :pity:

barreleffact
03-20-2012, 09:39 AM
Wade>>>>>>>>>Kobe at this stage of their careers.

As much as I dislike Wade, he would NEVER go 3-20 from the field. He has one of the purest shots in basketball.

Nobody has disected this post yet? Did everyone just ignore it? Wade is obviously a terrible shooter and has always been one. He has a decent mid range shot, but the majority of his scoring is from FTs, dunks, shots around the rim, etc. He will not have the graceful decline kobe is having once his athleticism declines.

Is he better than Kobe? Perhaps, but PURE shooter? Never

pacofunk64
03-20-2012, 09:40 AM
DRose for DHoward straight up! For 1 game, then you will see why DRose was the MVP. That Magic team is terrible.

celtNYpatsHeels
03-20-2012, 09:43 AM
I have been saying this for 2 years now. Yes Rose is a very good player, but he gets too much credit. The Bulls have the best defense in the NBA and have the deepest rotation in the NBA. They are a complete team, they have slashers, shooters, size, defense and depth. They dont miss a beat when Rose is out (and he does miss his fair share of time).

Rose gets way too much credit. Even when he has his games where he will throw up 25-30 shots and makes 8 of them, his team backs him up with offensive rebounds and defensive stops to bail him out. Yet he will get credit because he will make a highlight play in the 4th quarter that makes sports center.

Rose is a nice player, but definitely is overrated

Ty Fast
03-20-2012, 09:45 AM
he's not over rated. just like d-wade isnt over rated. just because teams win without their good players dosnt mean they are over rated.

Cal827
03-20-2012, 09:48 AM
All right a thread just ripe for baiting.... Just like the Aaron Rodgers thread:


Derek Rose is overrated. He is just a product of the system of the coach. You could literally take anybody in the NBA, put him in Rose's position and the team would still win. Hell, they could pick Eddy Curry up from a Buffet in Miami, make him the point guard for the night, and still win easily. The fact that he's is considered an MVP candidate is laughable and speaks to how clueless a fanbase could be.

Just joking around with ya Bulls fans :D... Thibs is definitely one of the best coaches in the NBA though.

jp611
03-20-2012, 09:53 AM
No hes not overrated, but the bulls supporting cast is underrated and I don't wanna hear the trolls say the bulls are nothing without rose anymore

LongIslandIcedZ
03-20-2012, 09:54 AM
I suppose he could be a little overrated from the standpoint that some Bulls fans think he is the best player in the NBA. Aside from that, no he isnt really overrated, dude is a stud.

1-800-STFU
03-20-2012, 09:54 AM
I'd trade him for Iman Shumpert and Jeremy Lin

Lin
Shumpert
Deng
Loozer
Noah

CHAMPIONSHIP

jp611
03-20-2012, 09:58 AM
I suppose he could be a little overrated from the standpoint that some Bulls fans think he is the best player in the NBA. Aside from that, no he isnt really overrated, dude is a stud.

I honestly don't think theres any logical bulls fan that thinks he's the best player in the league

LongIslandIcedZ
03-20-2012, 10:05 AM
I honestly don't think theres any logical bulls fan that thinks he's the best player in the league

Key word

Unfortunately, like NY, a big market like Chicago is bound to have a group of illogical fans. Like the ones who think Shumpert is the best rookie in the NBA

1-800-STFU
03-20-2012, 10:10 AM
Key word

Unfortunately, like NY, a big market like Chicago is bound to have a group of illogical fans. Like the ones who think Shumpert is the best rookie in the NBA

You'll be burned at the stake for your blasphemy

Greet
03-20-2012, 10:11 AM
DRose is not overrated. One of the main reasons as to why they are winning is our depth. we are a deep team, and we have lucas Lightning up other teams.

Which is exactly why he's overrated.

You sub in an average PG for Rose, and they're still a playoff team.

Rose isn't as valuable to the Bulls as people think. Besides from the market, of course.

justinnum1
03-20-2012, 10:13 AM
DRose for DHoward straight up! For 1 game, then you will see why DRose was the MVP. That Magic team is terrible.

:confused: And you think rose can help that magic team?


Anyways, ECF cant come soon enough

1-800-STFU
03-20-2012, 10:16 AM
Which is exactly why he's overrated.

You sub in an average PG for Rose, and they're still a playoff team.

Rose isn't as valuable to the Bulls as people think. Besides from the market, of course.

Eh but a middle of the road one. Having a go to scorer will be paramount in the playoffs.

Without rose you're looking at those Skiles teams of old that played great defense and commonly lead the league in opponent FG% but didn't have a single go to scorer. As a result, they didn't do jack ****

Greet
03-20-2012, 10:19 AM
Eh but a middle of the road one. Having a go to scorer will be paramount in the playoffs.

Without rose you're looking at those Skiles teams of old that played great defense and commonly lead the league in opponent FG% but didn't have a single go to scorer. As a result, they didn't do jack ****

Look at the Sixers. They don't have any stars, sure Iggy is a borderline star but that team is all depth. You give the Bulls lets say a Devin Harris type player, and they're a playoff team.

ahigbee
03-20-2012, 10:24 AM
I think derrick rose brings more good then bad. He isnt a terrific shooter, though he has improved. He isnt the best passer, but again he has improved. But when he wants, he can get to the rim as good as anyone. The bulls I think in spurts can survive without rose if they have Lucas playing, he is more of a traditional PG. However, in the long run, Rose is clutch Offensively and Defensively. I think they may need to cut his minutes to almost save him from himself. The way he plays the game, it worries me that he might break down sooner then later. Example Tracy McGrady.

haggis
03-20-2012, 10:25 AM
Which is exactly why he's overrated.

You sub in an average PG for Rose, and they're still a playoff team.

Rose isn't as valuable to the Bulls as people think. Besides from the market, of course.


Look at the Sixers. They don't have any stars, sure Iggy is a borderline star but that team is all depth. You give the Bulls lets say a Devin Harris type player, and they're a playoff team.


Right. The Bulls are good, we know that.

But, with Rose, they are a serious championship contender, not just a 'playoff team'.

BullySixChicago
03-20-2012, 10:27 AM
[QUOTE=cyph34;21427897]I'm starting to wonder, as the Bulls have been playing fairly well without D-Rose this season, which is very apparent as of late with a win over the Heat and a blowout win over the Magic. Tibs' system is absolutely diesel. Not saying that the other players can't play as clearly Deng/Noah/Boozer can ball, so D-Rose may be getting too much credit. And after this, I think CP3 should be first team.[/QUOTE

Lol you love Rose please you don't love Rose to make the suggestion that the Bulls would be just as good without him.

To say that Paul should be first team is a kick in the face to Rose who you supposed love.

Rose getting to much credit lol I am going to put this comment of yours in respect.

Take your girl friend or wife you love them but you are wondering if they are overrated how can you love someone and think they are over rated?

Now you are questioning his importance to the Bulls please you are no more in love with Rose as you would be with a can of do do .

DaBUU
03-20-2012, 10:27 AM
I have been saying this for 2 years now. Yes Rose is a very good player, but he gets too much credit. The Bulls have the best defense in the NBA and have the deepest rotation in the NBA. They are a complete team, they have slashers, shooters, size, defense and depth. They dont miss a beat when Rose is out (and he does miss his fair share of time).

Rose gets way too much credit. Even when he has his games where he will throw up 25-30 shots and makes 8 of them, his team backs him up with offensive rebounds and defensive stops to bail him out. Yet he will get credit because he will make a highlight play in the 4th quarter that makes sports center.

Rose is a nice player, but definitely is overrated

you are still very wrong , as usual

justinnum1
03-20-2012, 10:31 AM
I have been saying this for 2 years now. Yes Rose is a very good player, but he gets too much credit. The Bulls have the best defense in the NBA and have the deepest rotation in the NBA. They are a complete team, they have slashers, shooters, size, defense and depth. They dont miss a beat when Rose is out (and he does miss his fair share of time).

Rose gets way too much credit. Even when he has his games where he will throw up 25-30 shots and makes 8 of them, his team backs him up with offensive rebounds and defensive stops to bail him out. Yet he will get credit because he will make a highlight play in the 4th quarter that makes sports center.

Rose is a nice player, but definitely is overrated
:facepalm:

Sinestro
03-20-2012, 10:33 AM
Is Dwayne Wade overrated? I seem to remember the Heat doing well without him as well, point is both teams stepped up, there's a reason they are 2 of the best teams

Chi City23
03-20-2012, 10:33 AM
Rose makes his teammates better and the game comes a lot easier for them when he plays. Look at the Portland game where they lost it in the 4th when no one on the team could do anything! The Magic were playing a back to back and the previous game was against the Heat.

Rose is not overrated.

chitown85
03-20-2012, 10:35 AM
:confused: And you think rose can help that magic team?


Anyways, ECF cant come soon enough

Who knows,LMFAO. This whole thread is a bait thread. The real question should be is Dwight flipping Howard overrated? I love me some Dwight, but to get blown out by 27 points at home by a Roseless Bulls...The funny thing is that once Rose and Rip (we'll see) recover fully; then all of the haters will get to see how good the Bulls REALLY are this season...as if beating up on the Magic on the road without either doesn't show you the Bulls got a little something. D Rose has a 40 inch vertical, breaks down coverage, slashes to the rim, breaks ankles, plays at a different level than most players around him;sometimes opposing defenders seem to be moving in slow motion;), IS A HELL OF A CLASSY INDIVIDUAL, and is becoming more and more of a leader...overrated?

Kyben36
03-20-2012, 10:39 AM
heart and soul player who playing for his hometown doesn't seem like he'll ever be titled as an overrated player.

disagree for one huge reason, he hits huge shots when it counds, and only the greats can do that consistantly.

I would agree with you that CP3 is probably a better PG, in the fact he is able to pass the ball on a much higher level, but rose has the finshing ability of lebron at the rim, and clutchness of kObe.

justinnum1
03-20-2012, 10:41 AM
Who knows,LMFAO. This whole thread is a bait thread. The real question should be is Dwight flipping Howard overrated? I love me some Dwight, but to get blown out by 27 points at home by a Roseless Bulls...The funny thing is that once Rose and Rip (we'll see) recover fully; then all of the haters will get to see how good the Bulls REALLY are this season...as if beating up on the Magic on the road without either doesn't show you the Bulls got a little something. D Rose has a 40 inch vertical, breaks down coverage, slashes to the rim, breaks ankles, plays at a different level than most players around him;sometimes opposing defenders seem to be moving in slow motion;), IS A HELL OF A CLASSY INDIVIDUAL, and is becoming more and more of a leader...overrated?

Magic live and die by the 3...just look at the last game you guys played when they were hot...

UPRock
03-20-2012, 10:41 AM
He's up there with Rose as the best Point Guards in the NBA, definitely 1A & 1B.

chitown85
03-20-2012, 10:43 AM
Magic live and die by the 3...just look at the last game you guys played when they were hot...

Okay friend, I like how you just picked a sentence that was more of a joke than anything and missed the whole damn point of my post:clap:

mudvayne387
03-20-2012, 10:49 AM
Yes, Rose is slightly overrated. The Bulls would still be a force in the East if you replaced him with an average PG.

Elite shooter ? No

Elite defender ? No

Elite passer ? No

Elite free throw shooter ? No

But he does do everything well, and that translates into one very solid (borderline star) of a player.

He and Russel Westbrook are in the same category.

smith&wesson
03-20-2012, 10:53 AM
most superstars are over hyped with out a question. BUT over rated ? rose is a great player. right up there with the best of them in the league.

Vincent
03-20-2012, 10:55 AM
Rose is a superstar.

But he does get a lion share of the credit because he's the "lone" superstar of the team. Which is probably not fair.

But, Derrick defers the credit to his teammates EVERY game. So it's not like it's his fault that people see things incorrectly.

Noah has been a beast overall this year.
Boozer has been very efficient offensively.
Taj has been better, CJ Watson and John Lucas have stepped up.
Deng WAS playing excellent before the injury.
Ronnie Brewer has done a fine job starting most of the games this year.

Tom Thibodeau is an elite coach.

Yet, all those guys are for the most part excellent role players. Which is why their leader is being glorified.

smith&wesson
03-20-2012, 10:57 AM
Yes, Rose is slightly overrated. The Bulls would still be a force in the East if you replaced him with an average PG.

Elite shooter ? No

Elite defender ? No

Elite passer ? No

Elite free throw shooter ? No

But he does do everything well, and that translates into one very solid (borderline star) of a player.

how bout the ability to get to the rim at will ? or the ability to take over games ? leader ship? heart ?

PhillyFaninLA
03-20-2012, 10:59 AM
I want to ask a question to Bulls fans and this is not meant to be a criticism and attack or anything more then asking a fan base that cares the most and watches the most of Rose.

Is Derek Rose more than a speed guy? Let me explain what I mean when I watch him it seems like most of what he does is because you can't match his speed and/or athleticism. Hypothetically if he lost half a step to a step would he go from one of the best PG's to average?

Vincent
03-20-2012, 11:02 AM
Yes, Rose is slightly overrated. The Bulls would still be a force in the East if you replaced him with an average PG.

Elite shooter ? No

Elite defender ? No

Elite passer ? No

Elite free throw shooter ? No

But he does do everything well, and that translates into one very solid (borderline star) of a player.

He and Russel Westbrook are in the same category.

So... is Kobe a solid (borderline star)?
Paul Pierce?

Because I would say neither of those guys really fit your criteria.

Vincent
03-20-2012, 11:05 AM
I want to ask a question to Bulls fans and this is not meant to be a criticism and attack or anything more then asking a fan base that cares the most and watches the most of Rose.

Is Derek Rose more than a speed guy? Let me explain what I mean when I watch him it seems like most of what he does is because you can't match his speed and/or athleticism. Hypothetically if he lost half a step to a step would he go from one of the best PG's to average?

He's still 23 and hasn't had to make that adjustment in his career so we probably don't know (kind of like how LeBron never has had to adjust his speed or athleticism).

But he has made strides in his jumper and his post game. And his floater is one of the best in the league.

1-800-STFU
03-20-2012, 11:06 AM
Look at the Sixers. They don't have any stars, sure Iggy is a borderline star but that team is all depth. You give the Bulls lets say a Devin Harris type player, and they're a playoff team.

The sixers aren't contending for a title....

The Bulls would be a playoff team with Devin Harris....just not a very good one.

There is a big leap from the NBA hell of being an alright playoff team (think Jazz with Deron and Boozer), and being a championship contender which the Bulls are today with Rose.

Without him they would be in the NBA hell of a team good enough to be the 3-6 seed, but never good enough to win it all.

mudvayne387
03-20-2012, 11:07 AM
how bout the ability to get to the rim at will ? or the ability to take over games ? leader ship? heart ?

Tim Tebow has leadership abilities and heart , is he elite ?

I am not bashing Rose, I would die to have him on my team. I am just saying at this point in his career, he doesn't do one single thing extraordinary. But he does do a number of things extremely well.

sargon21
03-20-2012, 11:10 AM
^ except win, which is the most important thing.

Ray
03-20-2012, 11:12 AM
in 1992-1993 season(the season before Jordan's first retirement), the bulls went 57-25. 1993-1994 season(without Jordan) they went 55-27.

I guess Jordan was overrated too....

effen5
03-20-2012, 11:19 AM
I'm just going to end this right here.

Rose is elite....same category as Lebron, Wade, Durant, etc elite.

Why? People are saying hes not an elite shooter, elite defender, etc....

Well guess what, Rose can do what only a handful of players do...take over a game and score at will.

Lebron can do it, Wade can do it, Durant can do it, and so can Rose.

How many times have we seen where the Bulls needed a bucket desperately and Rose would just score at will?

You put Devin Harris on this team and we would be the Philly 6ers....why? They have no go to guy at the end of the game. They don't have that one player they can rely on at the end of the game.

Bulls not only play their ***** off but they get some luck on their way.

If the Bulls struggle on offense, who would they go to for consistent offense? Noah? Deng? Boozer? Come on now....this thread is a big joke.

Chronz
03-20-2012, 11:21 AM
The sixers aren't contending for a title....

The Bulls would be a playoff team with Devin Harris....just not a very good one.

There is a big leap from the NBA hell of being an alright playoff team (think Jazz with Deron and Boozer), and being a championship contender which the Bulls are today with Rose.

Without him they would be in the NBA hell of a team good enough to be the 3-6 seed, but never good enough to win it all.

Thats how you know you have a stacked team, when without you its comparable to a team with 2 stars like Deron/Boozer

1-800-STFU
03-20-2012, 11:21 AM
i'm just going to end this right here.

Rose is elite....same category as lebron, wade, durant, etc elite.

Why? People are saying hes not an elite shooter, elite defender, etc....

Well guess what, rose can do what only a handful of players do...take over a game and score at will.

Lebron can do it, wade can do it, durant can do it, and so can rose.

How many times have we seen where the bulls needed a bucket desperately and rose would just score at will?

You put devin harris on this team and we would be the philly 6ers....why? They have no go to guy at the end of the game. They don't have that one player they can rely on at the end of the game.

Bulls not only play their ***** off but they get some luck on their way.

if the bulls struggle on offense, who would they go to for consistent offense? Noah? Deng? Boozer? Come on now....this thread is a big joke.
JL3

BAM. ARGUMENT SHATTERED. What now?

Sox72
03-20-2012, 11:21 AM
I want to ask a question to Bulls fans and this is not meant to be a criticism and attack or anything more then asking a fan base that cares the most and watches the most of Rose.

Is Derek Rose more than a speed guy? Let me explain what I mean when I watch him it seems like most of what he does is because you can't match his speed and/or athleticism. Hypothetically if he lost half a step to a step would he go from one of the best PG's to average?

His speed is ridiculous. However, it's his ability to finish that impresses me so much. It seems like as long as he can get anywhere near the rim, he's going to score.

Also, speed would be useless without the ability to completely control the ball.

effen5
03-20-2012, 11:21 AM
Tim Tebow has leadership abilities and heart , is he elite ?

I am not bashing Rose, I would die to have him on my team. I am just saying at this point in his career, he doesn't do one single thing extraordinary. But he does do a number of things extremely well.

Are you seriously comparing Tebow to Rose?

Tebow has heart but he can't take over a game....he just gets lucky in the 4th quarter.

Rose can take over a game starting from the beginning. I've seen teams double and triple team him from minute one. I've seen teams trap him constantly.

You're telling me teams aren't trying to prepare for Rose?

effen5
03-20-2012, 11:27 AM
Thats how you know you have a stacked team, when without you its comparable to a team with 2 stars like Deron/Boozer

What about last year? People act like he didn't deserve the MVP award when it was clearly his.

Boozer was injured then Noah was injured then Boozer was injured then Noah was injured.

Our offense was a complete mess last year when Boozer and Noah always being injured and them not having time to gel and Bogans as our SG.

Rose WAS our offense last year. He opened up looks for Denger and Bogans. We didn't have the ball movement last year like we do this year.

Its amazing how much deadlier our team looks when Booz and Noah are actually healthy. If Booz and Noah were completely healthy last year and played like how they are playing now, last year, we could have made the Heat series a lot closer.

But our offense was a mess because nobody wanted the ball last year besides Rose.

theheatles
03-20-2012, 11:31 AM
do I think rose is rated higher than he should be? yeah. does that make him a little overrated? sure.

Losoway
03-20-2012, 11:32 AM
your bugging

d.rose has turned chicago around and put heart in that team

ChitownSports16
03-20-2012, 11:34 AM
this thread is just to funny...

Chronz
03-20-2012, 11:48 AM
What about last year? People act like he didn't deserve the MVP award when it was clearly his.
I couldnt disagree more, I can agree that he was worthy, but for the MVP to CLEARLY be his he would have needed a much stronger case.


Boozer was injured then Noah was injured then Boozer was injured then Noah was injured.

Yea, thats where superb depth like Taj, Asik, KT come into play. For the most part atleast one of either Noah/Boozer was around, Boozer is playing better this year coincidentally its come with him sharing the court less with Rose. Which is abit troubling, hes both scoring more and more effectively without Rose on the court this year. Last year it was much of the same, the 2 have to build the kind of chemistry that he and Deron had in order for the Bulls to maximize their investment. If its not possible then at least hes healthy this year.



Our offense was a complete mess last year when Boozer and Noah always being injured and them not having time to gel and Bogans as our SG.

Rose WAS our offense last year. He opened up looks for Denger and Bogans. We didn't have the ball movement last year like we do this year.

The problem with that is that other players carried the load for their teams on BOTH ends more than Rose carried his teams offense.



Its amazing how much deadlier our team looks when Booz and Noah are actually healthy. If Booz and Noah were completely healthy last year and played like how they are playing now, last year, we could have made the Heat series a lot closer.

But our offense was a mess because nobody wanted the ball last year besides Rose.

Well that works both ways, the Heat are a better team as well. They dont have the depth you guys have and in a lockout year that counts for more than it usually does, but come playoff time it should be a war. Hell last year was a war, the Heat just closed each game out. The 4-1 result doesnt come close to showing what a competitive series it was.

Mr.ATLHawks
03-20-2012, 11:55 AM
I dont think Rose over rated, however, when he is not playing the Bulls move the ball better and play better tema ball. You cant have one player dominate the ball ala Wade, Kobe, Melo, Rose, etc. When your team sucks they get a pass bc you need them to create but I think the Bull shave gotten to a point where I would like to see Rose facilitate more and take over when needed. This is so similar to the NYK when Lin popped in and Melo was out and then came back and they sucked again. Some of these superstars need to learn they cant win by themselves and its a team game. Everybody wants to be Michael Jordan and have the glory themselves, but when the Bulls where winning championships alot of the great highlights were Jordan kicking it out to *insert white boy 3 point shooter* for key buckets.

Bullsfan22
03-20-2012, 11:56 AM
Yes, he has a lot of help defensively and it's obvious that is the case when he doesn't play. we practically win off defense and ball movement alone.

for the people that blindly want to bring up our record to discredit Rose is idiots. we've beat a couple playoffs teams without him, and even that is fools gold because it's the regular season. When the playoff gets underway role player crack, the Bulls' defense won't but the John Lucas' won't hit fade away jumpers over Lebron, Korvers jumper may dwindle away (see last years playoffs), Boozer might be bothered by length and the high post jumper not fall (see last years playoffs again).

Our defense is our second option offensively believe it or not. That could be a blessing or a curse. The blessing is your team will be amazingly consistent and won't depend on individual players. The curse is when your team face off against another elite defensive team (cough cough Heat cough cough) and they completely smother Rose and our role players doesn't step up when the pressure is highest.

Lebron and Wade will score against teams despite great defense That's the advantage of having duel superstars. They can be beat by a team like the Bulls don't get me wrong, but we are like a machine with a bunch of moving parts that can break. And when one breaks (offensively) Rose has to make up for it.

Despite what the series count said the Pacers gave us every ****ing thing we could handle. why? Because they got hot and our defensive advantage dwindled. Great defense will consistently win you games but when boozer, deng, korver, brewer aren't playing well offensively and a team get hot like the Pacers did at moments in games the pressure falls on Derrick Rose's shoulders. He's our loan security blanket.

Heediot
03-20-2012, 11:57 AM
The MVP is looking more iffy as the Bulls continue to win without him. Thib's system should be the MVP.

Heediot
03-20-2012, 12:02 PM
He's not overrated...

His cast/team is, and hopefully was (past tense), underrated. There might not be a great #2 option, but that team is just so perfectly constructed.


The team playing well without him doesn't make him any less of the player that he so obviously is...

That's an over-statement, but they are built very nicely. Exceptional team defense and very good chemistry.

Vincent
03-20-2012, 12:04 PM
You guys see two games against tired teams coming off back-to-back without Derrick Rose and you think this team plays BETTER without him?

Go look at what happened AT HOME to Portland.
Go look at the blow out AT HOME to the lowly Nets.
How about that massacre during MLK day to the Grizzles.

The Bulls have great ball movement with or without Rose, but Rose is leader of the Bulls. He takes the tough shots, and he puts his body on the line every night.

Thibs deserves a ton of credit, but even he would say the reason why the Bulls are who they are is in large part to Derrick Rose donning that Bulls jersey.

Kashmir13579
03-20-2012, 12:08 PM
He's a little overrated. Great player no-doubt.

cubbies7177
03-20-2012, 12:10 PM
Before he went off on the Heat I recall dozens of Bulls fans hating the guy(Lucas).

Well, I still don't like him per say. He's not a PG. He's an undersized 2, playing the 1 that can't pass. So, he's either incredibly effective (if he's hitting his shots) and horribly ineffective (if he's not). He's been hot as of late, but I've learned not to be too results orientated (or in other words, I am not a Knicks fan).

In the end, come Playoff time, it comes down to consistency and ability to perform in big situations. Lucas is not consistently effective as a PG (He would be much more effective if he was 5 or 6 inches taller and could play SG), so against heightened defense in the Playoffs, I don't know if I would want to use him.

REMEMBER. DO NOT BE RESULTS ORIENTATED. A FEW GOOD GAMES MEANS NOTHING. WATCH HIM PLAY AND - MORE IMPORTANTLY - SEE HOW HE CREATES FOR OTHERS. A PG THAT CAN ONLY CREATE HIS OWN SHOT IS NOT WORTH THAT MUCH - especially since EVERYONE in the NBA goes on cold streaks.

Heediot
03-20-2012, 12:10 PM
For a guys his age, he is ****ing sick.

gaughan333
03-20-2012, 12:12 PM
Tim Tebow has leadership abilities and heart , is he elite ?

I am not bashing Rose, I would die to have him on my team. I am just saying at this point in his career, he doesn't do one single thing extraordinary. But he does do a number of things extremely well.

Tebow doesn't have the other things to go along with those. Your argument is stupid. You add intangibles to a solid skill set and you get a good player. Tebow has size I guess? But no arm playing a position that requires it. Yes you are right, heart and leadership can only take you so far, but a player like rose has those to go along with skills

gaughan333
03-20-2012, 12:17 PM
I dont think Rose over rated, however, when he is not playing the Bulls move the ball better and play better tema ball. You cant have one player dominate the ball ala Wade, Kobe, Melo, Rose, etc. When your team sucks they get a pass bc you need them to create but I think the Bull shave gotten to a point where I would like to see Rose facilitate more and take over when needed. This is so similar to the NYK when Lin popped in and Melo was out and then came back and they sucked again. Some of these superstars need to learn they cant win by themselves and its a team game. Everybody wants to be Michael Jordan and have the glory themselves, but when the Bulls where winning championships alot of the great highlights were Jordan kicking it out to *insert white boy 3 point shooter* for key buckets.

You don't watch many bulls games do you?

MonroeFAN
03-20-2012, 12:18 PM
DRose for DHoward straight up! For 1 game, then you will see why DRose was the MVP. That Magic team is terrible.

um? So wouldn't that make Dwight the most valuable player in the league?

:facepalm:

I don't think Rose is overrated, his team is great, and he's putting up great numbers in the process. I don't think he should have won MVP last season, but it's not really up to me, and it wasn't a horrible decision.

effen5
03-20-2012, 12:30 PM
That magic team with Dwight is horrible.

Mr.ATLHawks
03-20-2012, 12:33 PM
You don't watch many bulls games do you?

I watch enough..Rose is a great player. I am not discrediting him at all. i am simply stating he needs to stop trying to be everything and be a true PG. I know this is the era of the hybrid PG like Westbrook, Wall, Rose, Holliday, Monta Ellis, Stephon Curry, where these SG are being converted. I could look up stats and all that crap about Usage percentage, etc. or I can go off what I see physically with my eyes. Joe Johnson was the same way. He dominated the ball for years when we didnt have anything else viable. Now that we have viable weapons like Josh, Al, etc. he has to be more of a team player. When its crunchtime, no doubt, you want th eball in Rose's hands. I just think they can benefit more in the playoofs if he develops that facilitating chemistry in the reg season. Players will always run harder, defend harder, with a PG like Nash, CP3 b/c they know they will get the ball. Once again, im not saying Rose is garabge and that he hogs the ball, i just think he could benefit more in the long run by picking his spots.

MonroeFAN
03-20-2012, 12:35 PM
Whatever, that was still beyond ********.

chicago lulz
03-20-2012, 01:17 PM
I watch enough..Rose is a great player. I am not discrediting him at all. i am simply stating he needs to stop trying to be everything and be a true PG. I know this is the era of the hybrid PG like Westbrook, Wall, Rose, Holliday, Monta Ellis, Stephon Curry, where these SG are being converted. I could look up stats and all that crap about Usage percentage, etc. or I can go off what I see physically with my eyes. Joe Johnson was the same way. He dominated the ball for years when we didnt have anything else viable. Now that we have viable weapons like Josh, Al, etc. he has to be more of a team player. When its crunchtime, no doubt, you want th eball in Rose's hands. I just think they can benefit more in the playoofs if he develops that facilitating chemistry in the reg season. Players will always run harder, defend harder, with a PG like Nash, CP3 b/c they know they will get the ball. Once again, im not saying Rose is garabge and that he hogs the ball, i just think he could benefit more in the long run by picking his spots.
Stats show Rose is being used less this year. Also looking at the assists, in the past few games without Rose, the Bulls have averaged less assists than their season average. So I don't know if you have an argument that they've been moving the ball better without Rose.

DaBUU
03-20-2012, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by mudvayne387
Tim Tebow has leadership abilities and heart , is he elite ?

I am not bashing Rose, I would die to have him on my team. I am just saying at this point in his career, he doesn't do one single thing extraordinary. But he does do a number of things extremely well.

I would say the way he is able to attack the rim with his speed, size, and strength along with incredible body control, is pretty extraordinary. Not sure the NBA has ever seen a PG like this. He's able to play the point and average 8 assists, not to mention all of the open looks he gets his teammates that they miss, and practically be another big man with the way he is able to get into the paint at will. And personally, i dont mind his efficiency numbers, cuz when he's on the court he's usually always the best offensive option for the Bulls.

D1JM
03-20-2012, 01:55 PM
Bulls should amnesty Rose. Let's see how many teams put in an offer for him

Shmontaine
03-20-2012, 02:10 PM
I dont think Rose over rated, however, when he is not playing the Bulls move the ball better and play better tema ball. You cant have one player dominate the ball ala Wade, Kobe, Melo, Rose, etc. When your team sucks they get a pass bc you need them to create but I think the Bull shave gotten to a point where I would like to see Rose facilitate more and take over when needed. This is so similar to the NYK when Lin popped in and Melo was out and then came back and they sucked again.

This shows that you have no clue what you're talking about, there are absolutely zero similarities to what the knicks are going through this year.. the bulls have a higher winning percentage with rose playing than with him out... how the hell are you comparing him to melo and the knicks??? when rose is out, the bulls are winning less, and have less total assists... again, what are you watching???


Some of these superstars need to learn they cant win by themselves and its a team game.

i would agree with this.... i don't think rose fits into this category, neither do wade or lj..


Everybody wants to be Michael Jordan and have the glory themselves, but when the Bulls where winning championships alot of the great highlights were Jordan kicking it out to *insert white boy 3 point shooter* for key buckets.

a lot?? there were a few instances (paxson in the 4th quarter of one finals game, game winner against phx) (Kerr in one shot of the finals)... the majority of the 'great highlights' of the jordan era are of jordan...


I watch enough..Rose is a great player. I am not discrediting him at all. i am simply stating he needs to stop trying to be everything and be a true PG.

ummm... no... he's doing what his team needs him to do, and the second he tries to fit your mold of what he should be doing, it will hurt his team... he's not trying to be 'everything', he's just doing what his team needs... do you remember the beginning of the season, when he was being your molded 'true' point guard, and the bulls were starting games sluggishly and having to fight back into games... to the point where drose came out and said (not sure of the exact quote), "it's not working, i have to be more aggressive earlier on in games i guess, 'cause this isn't working."


I know this is the era of the hybrid PG like Westbrook, Wall, Rose, Holliday, Monta Ellis, Stephon Curry, where these SG are being converted.

Please tell me when wall, rose, holliday and curry were SG and then converted to pg... they have been PGs their entire bball careers... the new nba rules about not being able to check pgs has led to aggressive pgs being able to dominate... there will only be more of your so-called 'hybrids'... i call them pgs...


I could look up stats and all that crap about Usage percentage, etc. or I can go off what I see physically with my eyes.

i could use your analysis based off of what you perceive to see, or i could choose to look at reality, and results...


Joe Johnson was the same way. He dominated the ball for years when we didnt have anything else viable. Now that we have viable weapons like Josh, Al, etc. he has to be more of a team player.

JJ is not a pg... a good pg would solve a lot of ATL problems.. an aggressive pg that demands attention and possibly a double team. that would help out the hawks much more than trying to change JJ into a player he's never been...


When its crunchtime, no doubt, you want th eball in Rose's hands. I just think they can benefit more in the playoofs if he develops that facilitating chemistry in the reg season.

it's a matter of the rest of the players having the confidence to step up in the playoffs and deliver when rose passes them the ball, or when rose is having a bad game... this stretch without drose is giving the rest of the guys just that... hopefully, they continue their aggressive play when drose returns, knowing they don't have to rely solely on drose's aggressiveness to succeed... (on offense of course, defensively, everybody is okay. even boozer is better lately on d)


Players will always run harder, defend harder, with a PG like Nash, CP3 b/c they know they will get the ball. Once again, im not saying Rose is garabge and that he hogs the ball, i just think he could benefit more in the long run by picking his spots.

how many rings do nash and cp3 have again??? i wouldn't say their style of play is the recipe for success in the postseason... drose is doing exactly what his team needs from him... while it may not be what you would call a 'true' or 'pure' pg play, the league is determining that aggressive scoring pgs (or having two of the top 5-7 players in the league, miami fans) are the most helpful to team success...

ChitownSports16
03-20-2012, 02:10 PM
Bulls should amnesty Rose. Let's see how many teams put in an offer for him

no body would... he be a FA and fans will never want him..

lvlheaded
03-20-2012, 02:15 PM
Derek Rose is the second best player on the planet right now IMO, so to answer the question, hell no

LongIslandIcedZ
03-20-2012, 02:18 PM
Overrated can be such a relative term.

What if Joe Bulls fan thinks Derrick Rose is the 3rd best player in the NBA. Meanwhile I think Rose is the 7th bset player in the NBA. In that sense Rose is overrated.

If the question was whether or not the Bulls are better without Rose and that makes him overrated, I would say you're crazy.

Jabears85
03-20-2012, 02:22 PM
Its threads like this and the CP3 thread make this website more and more of a joke

Cfrey
03-20-2012, 02:26 PM
Rose is overrated just because all analysts act as if he does it ALL for the Bulls...

like I swear I don't know how many times I've heard a reporter or analyst say Rose does everything for the Bulls and he's the MVP because the Bulls have no one on his team hahahahaha it literally makes me laugh

their record without him goes to show that he is overrated in that case, yes.

Shmontaine
03-20-2012, 02:29 PM
Rose is overrated just because all analysts act as if he does it ALL for the Bulls...

like I swear I don't know how many times I've heard a reporter or analyst say Rose does everything for the Bulls and he's the MVP because the Bulls have no one on his team hahahahaha it literally makes me laugh

their record without him goes to show that he is overrated in that case, yes.

i'd guess 0 times... because that's bs... link to any reporter/analyst saying these things this season... please...

doing multiple things for a team (scoring, rebounding, assisting) doesn't equate to that team's success being only because of that players play... ie, lebron does it all for the heat, but he's not the only reason for the heat's success...

Vincent
03-20-2012, 02:31 PM
Rose is overrated just because all analysts act as if he does it ALL for the Bulls...

like I swear I don't know how many times I've heard a reporter or analyst say Rose does everything for the Bulls and he's the MVP because the Bulls have no one on his team hahahahaha it literally makes me laugh

their record without him goes to show that he is overrated in that case, yes.

National Analysts are awful.

They only see and acknowledge players that are putting up headlines or highlight reels.

I appreciate the commentary from a lot of in-game analysis (Hubie Brown, Steve Kerr, Chris Webber). They give a lot of credit to the cast and coaching staff around the Bulls. Rather than just single praise of Derrick.

Vincent
03-20-2012, 02:32 PM
i'd guess 0 times... because that's bs... link to any reporter/analyst saying these things this season... please...

doing multiple things for a team (scoring, rebounding, assisting) doesn't equate to that team's success being only because of that players play... ie, lebron does it all for the heat, but he's not the only reason for the heat's success...

I've heard it a few times. But they're usually just awful.

Shmontaine
03-20-2012, 02:37 PM
I've heard it a few times. But they're usually just awful.

i've never heard any analyst this season say the bulls have nothing outside drose, and this team is all drose...

i've heard some say drose 'does it all' for the bulls, but that's not the same thing as the what this guy is claiming, and can be attributed to multiple players on many teams...

if anything, they are praising the bench, boozer, noah, & deng a lot more than last year...

Vincent
03-20-2012, 02:41 PM
i've never heard any analyst this season say the bulls have nothing outside drose, and this team is all drose...

i've heard some say drose 'does it all' for the bulls, but that's not the same thing as the what this guy is claiming, and can be attributed to multiple players on many teams...

if anything, they are praising the bench, boozer, noah, & deng a lot more than last year...

Earlier, before the injury, everyone was harping on "Derrick is the only star on the team." "He needs help." "Can't do it alone."

That's a pretty big knock on the rest of the guys on his team... lol

effen5
03-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Rose is overrated just because all analysts act as if he does it ALL for the Bulls...

like I swear I don't know how many times I've heard a reporter or analyst say Rose does everything for the Bulls and he's the MVP because the Bulls have no one on his team hahahahaha it literally makes me laugh

their record without him goes to show that he is overrated in that case, yes.

The only time I hear that is from the nba forum

justinnum1
03-20-2012, 02:56 PM
This thread is getting old quick...he's not overrated.

/thread

Cant we just get back to dumping on the knicks?:D

mudvayne387
03-20-2012, 03:00 PM
Better Yet:

Bulls fans will say: He's not overrated, he is a top 5 player. (As they should, he is their star)

Non Bulls fans will say: The Bulls could survive without him, hes a great player but slightly overrated.

Cub_StuckinSTL
03-20-2012, 03:01 PM
No. The bulls winning games as of late have been because of Lucas playing out of his mind. That being said you cant count on that and most fans still dont want lucas as anything but the 3rd string PG

justinnum1
03-20-2012, 03:11 PM
How many injuries does rose have?

-The toe issue.
-Back issue
-and now a groin issue, that can come back at any time(see; Rip)

They need him healthy.

Shmontaine
03-20-2012, 03:14 PM
How many injuries does rose have?

-The toe issue.
-Back issue
-and now a groin issue, that can come back at any time(see; Rip)

They need him healthy.

yes, the bulls need him healthy...

but resting due to the groin will allow the toe and back to heal more so than if he never had the groin injury...

just trying to find the silver lining here, but i'm a little concerned.... only a month till playoffs and the bulls are still nicked up..

cyph34
03-20-2012, 03:17 PM
Better Yet:

Bulls fans will say: He's not overrated, he is a top 5 player. (As they should, he is their star)

Non Bulls fans will say: The Bulls could survive without him, hes a great player but slightly overrated.

This.

Cub_StuckinSTL
03-20-2012, 03:21 PM
How many injuries does rose have?

-The toe issue.
-Back issue
-and now a groin issue, that can come back at any time(see; Rip)

They need him healthy.

From what I understand from reading a few things it all stems from the toe injury. When you're an explosive player like him and you hurt your lower leg it requires another part of your body to absorb the impact that you take.

raiderNlakerfan
03-20-2012, 03:24 PM
I think he is overrated. Does that mean he isnt great? No. I just think he is overrated tho

Rawbee Peasy
03-20-2012, 03:36 PM
Overrated ?!?! come on man the dude is a stone cold killer in the 4th he has the killer gene like Kobe...sorry Lebron... He is the undeniable leader of his squad holds himself and his team accountable even when he doesnt play..and whats with this Chris Paul talk please D Rose killed him at the Staples this year beat him on his own floor check the stats

Kuya_Clive
03-20-2012, 03:41 PM
From what I understand from reading a few things it all stems from the toe injury. When you're an explosive player like him and you hurt your lower leg it requires another part of your body to absorb the impact that you take.

good old kinetic chain reactions...

Lidz
03-20-2012, 03:51 PM
He's not overrated nor are the Bulls so "deep" that they can in without him. One word. DEFENSE. When you have amazing defense like the Bulls have, you can win ANY game on ANY night by ANY margin. It seems nearly impossible to score on those guys.

utl768
03-20-2012, 04:03 PM
softest player in the nba this season at least

dude misses a game every week it seems like this year

he needs to step it up

tredigs
03-20-2012, 04:04 PM
The fact that many fans and the media scoff at the thought of him and Westbrook having essentially the same impact on a team epitomizes why I do think he is indeed overrated. Or RW underrated, however you want to look at it. Put Westbrook on the Bulls last season and KD on the Thunder and the Bulls have the #1 record and Westbrook is in a very good position for MVP.

I do think Rose is a better player than Westbrook (mostly for his mentality being slightly superior), but the similarities far outweigh the differences and the continual winning we see from Chi this year goes to prove MANY fans wrong from last year (who absolutely insisted the Bulls could not win consistently without Rose, and that they would likely miss the playoffs).

Overrated? Last season, yes.

Incredible player and top 7 in the league? Yes.

haggis
03-20-2012, 04:04 PM
softest player in the nba this season at least

dude misses a game every week it seems like this year

he needs to step it up

Fantasy player?

Crackadalic
03-20-2012, 04:05 PM
Idk how you can call a guy who accomplished so much in his short time in his NBA career overrated

Marlin234
03-20-2012, 04:40 PM
Love how the forums is on d rose and people manage a way to put lebrons name into this thread.

Mr Costanza
03-20-2012, 07:28 PM
Love how the forums is on d rose and people manage a way to put lebrons name into this thread.

Kobe's name was mentioned as well. Why aren't the laker fans complaining?

:rolleyes:

SteveNash
03-20-2012, 08:12 PM
Rose was correctly rated, by me, last season. Rose winning the MVP was joke, just as I said. Dirk deserved the MVP. Rose isn't even the Bulls MVP.

TheRunKiller
03-20-2012, 10:33 PM
well Bulls should start losing just cuz Rose is out.

Shammyguy3
03-20-2012, 10:43 PM
The term "pure point guard" is such a silly term.

Give me a PG that can score AND pass selflessly on a team that moves the ball as fluidly and selflessly as the Bulls do any day of the week. I'll take that offense over any offense that relies on one player to do all the play-making.

Hell, he's 8th in assists per 36 minutes...that's good enough. He does what he needs to make his team win, so who cares about labels like "pure" or "scoring" or whatever??


Jon Lucas has just been draining shots...and not really anything else. Him doing well is also no reason to smear Rose.


This.


A .... well Korver and Watson can't play a lick of d.

Interesting year, I can't wait for the playoffs.

Watson's a very good defender, i have no clue what you're talking about


I dont think Rose over rated, however, when he is not playing the Bulls move the ball better and play better tema ball. You cant have one player dominate the ball ala Wade, Kobe, Melo, Rose, etc. When your team sucks they get a pass bc you need them to create but I think the Bull shave gotten to a point where I would like to see Rose facilitate more and take over when needed. This is so similar to the NYK when Lin popped in and Melo was out and then came back and they sucked again. Some of these superstars need to learn they cant win by themselves and its a team game. Everybody wants to be Michael Jordan and have the glory themselves, but when the Bulls where winning championships alot of the great highlights were Jordan kicking it out to *insert white boy 3 point shooter* for key buckets.

Wrong, the Bulls average more assists in games he plays in.
Hell, Derrick Rose's ast% this season is 40.0% with only a 12.3tov%. He's averaging 8 assists a game. And the next player on the Bulls team with the highest ast% is Watson at only 26.9%. His ast/tov ratio is 2.73 this season, the highest of his career.


I watch enough..Rose is a great player. I am not discrediting him at all. i am simply stating he needs to stop trying to be everything and be a true PG. I know this is the era of the hybrid PG like Westbrook, Wall, Rose, Holliday, Monta Ellis, Stephon Curry, where these SG are being converted. I could look up stats and all that crap about Usage percentage, etc. or I can go off what I see physically with my eyes. Joe Johnson was the same way. He dominated the ball for years when we didnt have anything else viable. Now that we have viable weapons like Josh, Al, etc. he has to be more of a team player. When its crunchtime, no doubt, you want th eball in Rose's hands. I just think they can benefit more in the playoofs if he develops that facilitating chemistry in the reg season. Players will always run harder, defend harder, with a PG like Nash, CP3 b/c they know they will get the ball. Once again, im not saying Rose is garabge and that he hogs the ball, i just think he could benefit more in the long run by picking his spots.

Chris Paul's assists numbers this year:
41.4ast% 11.3tov% 8.4apg with an incredible 3.96ast/tov ratio.

Rose this year:
40.0ast% 12.3tov% 8.0apg and a 2.73ast/tov ratio (all career bests).

Rose has never picked his spots better.


Rose is overrated just because all analysts act as if he does it ALL for the Bulls...

like I swear I don't know how many times I've heard a reporter or analyst say Rose does everything for the Bulls and he's the MVP because the Bulls have no one on his team hahahahaha it literally makes me laugh

their record without him goes to show that he is overrated in that case, yes.

The Bulls have gone 10-4 without Rose. Teams they've played:

Washington ... Win
Memphis (w/o Randolph) ... Loss
Phoenix ... Win
Cleveland ... Win
Charlotte x2 ... Both wins
Boston x2... Split
Sacramento ... Win
New Jersey ... Loss
Miami ... Win
Portland ... Loss
Philly .... Win
Orlando ... Win

They're only impressive wins were against Boston (at home), Miami (at home), Philly (at home), and Orlando (on the road).

They've lost to New Jersey at home, Portland at home, Boston on the road.

The rest of their wins were against ****** teams.


softest player in the nba this season at least

dude misses a game every week it seems like this year

he needs to step it up

:facepalm: you realize players do get hurt right? Injured, in fact?
He has one of the best clutch numbers in the league this season. He's stepped it up more than ever before. And he's played in 34 games this year. For comparison's sake, Wade's played in 35.


Rose was correctly rated, by me, last season. Rose winning the MVP was joke, just as I said. Dirk deserved the MVP. Rose isn't even the Bulls MVP.

lol, you still post here?

Sinestro
03-20-2012, 10:54 PM
Shammy laying some nice info down!

beasted86
03-20-2012, 10:57 PM
Newsflash... if a contending team cannot win regular season games with 1 guy injured, they aren't a contending team. This isn't the playoffs we are talking about or winning a title, just winning regular season games.

The Bulls are obviously a true contender. Common sense here folks... I don't know why this thread is still open.

northsider
03-20-2012, 11:58 PM
Call him what you want but, I couldn't be more thrilled he suits up for the team I root for.

jam
03-21-2012, 12:43 AM
Thibs is the best coach in the assoc. He gets the most out of a very deep roster. Every player on the bulls roster goes full tilt. They actually remind me a college squad sometimes with their effort level, which basically never happens in the regular season.


I'm starting to wonder, as the Bulls have been playing fairly well without D-Rose this season, which is very apparent as of late with a win over the Heat and a blowout win over the Magic. Tibs' system is absolutely diesel. Not saying that the other players can't play as clearly Deng/Noah/Boozer can ball, so D-Rose may be getting too much credit. And after this, I think CP3 should be first team.

Cfrey
03-21-2012, 12:50 AM
i'd guess 0 times... because that's bs... link to any reporter/analyst saying these things this season... please...

doing multiple things for a team (scoring, rebounding, assisting) doesn't equate to that team's success being only because of that players play... ie, lebron does it all for the heat, but he's not the only reason for the heat's success...

its not BS at all.. you think i have tabs on when ive heard people say those specific things?? lol not at all

and someone said something about how analysts are terrible and yes where did I say they were good?

point is i said rose is overrated in the sense that he is portrayed as the lone wolf on the bulls

chitown85
03-21-2012, 01:46 AM
Shammy came out with some serious knowledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTBuyF0yCcg

After watching this video^ And pondering the topic of this ridiculous Colin Cowterdesque thread. Maybe, Rose is overrated...:rolleyes:

Raph12
03-21-2012, 02:09 AM
Like I said before, Rose has played much better this year; by turning the ball over less, passing and moving the ball more on offense instead of the predictable iso game he ran to death last season, the Bulls team's offense is much improved. Thibs let Rose facilitate the offense to his will last season, Rose seems much more poised and disciplined this season, playing under control more and running more sets instead of "me-ball"... He continues to get better, now if he could get that shot down, watch out.

Vincent
03-21-2012, 11:35 AM
Rose was correctly rated, by me, last season. Rose winning the MVP was joke, just as I said. Dirk deserved the MVP. Rose isn't even the Bulls MVP.

Just like how Steve Nash wasn't the MVP of those Suns teams right?

Bullsfan22
03-21-2012, 12:33 PM
People on this forum speak of Derrick Rose not being a pure point guard as if he averages 5 assist on 4 turnovers. He's a very good point and happens to be a scorer. He averages 8 ****ing assist a game.

justinnum1
03-21-2012, 12:43 PM
People on this forum speak of Derrick Rose not being a pure point guard as if he averages 5 assist on 4 turnovers. He's a very good point and happens to be a scorer. He averages 8 ****ing assist a game.

Easy with the language

willabeast77
03-21-2012, 02:47 PM
Bulls fans overrated him. He isn't the MVP this season. That is nonsense.

Kuya_Clive
03-21-2012, 03:00 PM
Bulls fans overrated him. He isn't the MVP this season. That is nonsense.

Most Bulls fans will tell you that Rose really has no chance to repeat because he's missed too many games and Lebron is just ****ing ballin'.

northsider
03-21-2012, 03:03 PM
Bulls fans overrated him. He isn't the MVP this season. That is nonsense.

No **** sherlock please bless us with more capt. obvious. I really don't see Bulls fans pushing for him to be MVP this year.

LOOTERX9
03-21-2012, 03:48 PM
Yeah The bulls are just as good without Rose, so yes I think Rose has been overrated. He's been exposed

Brad IBCB
03-21-2012, 03:49 PM
Yeah The bulls are just as good without Rose, so yes I think Rose has been overrated. He's been exposed

Just as good? lol k

TheRunKiller
03-21-2012, 03:53 PM
Yeah The bulls are just as good without Rose, so yes I think Rose has been overrated. He's been exposed

stop putting PCP in that kush

DaBUU
03-21-2012, 04:03 PM
Yeah The bulls are just as good without Rose, so yes I think Rose has been overrated. He's been exposed

pass that ***t over here

Kuya_Clive
03-21-2012, 04:17 PM
pass that ***t over here

time out chief, I'm ****ing blazed man. The spirits have got me. Chief, the spirits have got me!

xILLN355
03-21-2012, 04:25 PM
a hairline fraction bit teeny weeny overrated

KB-Pau-DH2012
03-21-2012, 04:27 PM
He's sat out way too many games this season. I understand it's a strained groin, but seriously, it's been almost like 2 weeks now.


I really applaud Kobe for the injuries he plays through. No one like him. I wonder how these young guys who are sitting out games now react when their bodies have been through 15+ yrs of beating 10 yrs from now.

sammid21
03-21-2012, 04:36 PM
He's sat out way too many games this season. I understand it's a strained groin, but seriously, it's been almost like 2 weeks now.


I really applaud Kobe for the injuries he plays through. No one like him. I wonder how these young guys who are sitting out games now react when their bodies have been through 15+ yrs of beating 10 yrs from now.

You are talking about 2 different styles of playing. Rose depends on his speed and quickness, a strained groin will stop a player like him. Kobes a warrior but he can rely on his jumpshot and other people feeding him the ball.

Ladies Man
03-21-2012, 04:44 PM
We may be playing good without him but in the playoffs we will need Rose

TheRunKiller
03-21-2012, 04:45 PM
34-6 with rose in the lineup no matter who else was out...yep he's overrated

poleandreel
03-21-2012, 04:53 PM
Way overrated. Great player but bulls fans praise him to no end. He inherited a team that barely missed the playoffs and they have built upon that and have on of the best coaches in the league.

I attribute approximately 20% of their success to him. As opposed to 95% of clevelands success all those years was bc of lebron and same thing with wade in miami or CP3 in NOLA and even so in LA.

Vincent
03-21-2012, 04:53 PM
He's sat out way too many games this season. I understand it's a strained groin, but seriously, it's been almost like 2 weeks now.


I really applaud Kobe for the injuries he plays through. No one like him. I wonder how these young guys who are sitting out games now react when their bodies have been through 15+ yrs of beating 10 yrs from now.

Huh?

It's been a week... He played last against the Knick last Monday.

And the Bulls are being extra cautious with him, and why put him in jeopardy when the team is winning games without him anyways?

I'm sure if the Bulls playoffs chances were in question, he'd be out there playing at less than 100%

Vincent
03-21-2012, 04:57 PM
Way overrated. Great player but bulls fans praise him to no end. He inherited a team that barely missed the playoffs and they have built upon that and have on of the best coaches in the league.

I attribute approximately 20% of their success to him. As opposed to 95% of clevelands success all those years was bc of lebron and same thing with wade in miami or CP3 in NOLA and even so in LA.

Since Rose was drafted, there is only one player still left on the roster that was on the Bulls since his rookie season (Luol Deng).

That team was completely dismantled and wasn't even close to reaching the playoffs that year. And he "inherited" Vinny Del Negro as his head coach (who btw sucks major ***). Yet, he carried that team to a playoff berth two consecutive years.

Nice job in pulling something completely out of your ***.

MJ-BULLS
03-21-2012, 05:01 PM
people still saying he's overrated. :laugh:

man, they are some moronic fans out there.

72 Wins
03-21-2012, 05:02 PM
Since Rose was drafted, there is only one player still left on the roster that was on the Bulls since his rookie season (Luol Deng).

That team was completely dismantled and wasn't even close to reaching the playoffs that year. And he "inherited" Vinny Del Negro as his head coach (who btw sucks major ***). Yet, he carried that team to a playoff berth two consecutive years.

Nice job in pulling something completely out of your ***.


QFTMFT. :clap:

poleandreel
03-21-2012, 05:06 PM
Since Rose was drafted, there is only one player still left on the roster that was on the Bulls since his rookie season (Luol Deng).

That team was completely dismantled and wasn't even close to reaching the playoffs that year. And he "inherited" Vinny Del Negro as his head coach (who btw sucks major ***). Yet, he carried that team to a playoff berth two consecutive years.

Nice job in pulling something completely out of your ***.

33-49 the year he was drafted.
41-41 The next year
41-41 again

Wow, what a huge increase in wins. Oh wait, the year he was drafted luol deng, drew gooden, ben wallace (all of whom were starters) missed 20+ games.

So the 8 win difference is probably not even attributable to him and more-so, to health.

Also, i never said there were still players on this team from those years. I said, he inherited a good team and not still has a good team. Meaning, he has never had to put up with the **** teams that CP3, Deron,Lebron,Wade,Durant all had to when they were young.

No one knows what DRose would do with a **** team. But to say he is the reason for all of the bulls success, or even most of it, is completely and utterly false.

EDIT: also,noah was on the team before Rose was drafted so sick knowledge of your team. 2/5 starters have been the same. Thats a huge component of a team.

Blah Blah Blah
03-21-2012, 05:07 PM
He's sat out way too many games this season. I understand it's a strained groin, but seriously, it's been almost like 2 weeks now.


I really applaud Kobe for the injuries he plays through. No one like him. I wonder how these young guys who are sitting out games now react when their bodies have been through 15+ yrs of beating 10 yrs from now.

:facepalm:

Having a groin injury means u can't run, and if u can't run, u can't play basketball well. Kobe had broken fingers and a torn wrist ligament. You can still play with those injuries, not with a groin injury. your motions of your wrist are still intact for the most part and still have pretty much your range of motion despite all that. plus, his trigger fingers were still fine i think which means, his shot wasn't effected too much. Obviously you have no sense of anything related to the human body.

justinnum1
03-21-2012, 05:08 PM
the real question is between all these injuries; toe, back, groin...will he be healthy enough in the playoffs?

SteveNash
03-21-2012, 05:09 PM
Just like how Steve Nash wasn't the MVP of those Suns teams right?

Nash didn't deserve those MVP's, but he was and is far superior to Rose.


Since Rose was drafted, there is only one player still left on the roster that was on the Bulls since his rookie season (Luol Deng).

That team was completely dismantled and wasn't even close to reaching the playoffs that year. And he "inherited" Vinny Del Negro as his head coach (who btw sucks major ***). Yet, he carried that team to a playoff berth two consecutive years.

Nice job in pulling something completely out of your ***.

Joakim Noah? They got Taj by trading Thabo. And they moved their assets to clear cap space so they could sign Scal/Boozer/Brewer/Korver/Watson/.

Bulls had plenty of assets compared to most #1 picks. Rose did little to turn their fortune around.

Blah Blah Blah
03-21-2012, 05:11 PM
33-49 the year he was drafted.
41-41 The next year
41-41 again

Wow, what a huge increase in wins. Oh wait, the year he was drafted luol deng, drew gooden, ben wallace (all of whom were starters) missed 20+ games.

So the 8 win difference is probably not even attributable to him and more-so, to health.

Also, i never said there were still players on this team from those years. I said, he inherited a good team and not still has a good team. Meaning, he has never had to put up with the **** teams that CP3, Deron,Lebron,Wade,Durant all had to when they were young.

No one knows what DRose would do with a **** team. But to say he is the reason for all of the bulls success, or even most of it, is completely and utterly false.

EDIT: also,noah was on the team before Rose was drafted so sick knowledge of your team. 2/5 starters have been the same. Thats a huge component of a team.

:facepalm:

who says that? you won't hear any bulls fans say he's the full reason bulls are successful. obviously they can win without him, but in no way in hell, are they going to have any chance at a title without him. You can't win a title when your best ****ing player is missing no matter who it is.

DaBear
03-21-2012, 05:12 PM
Can someone close this bait thread already?

DaBear
03-21-2012, 05:13 PM
Nash didn't deserve those MVP's, but he was and is far superior to Rose.



Joakim Noah? They got Taj by trading Thabo. And they moved their assets to clear cap space so they could sign Scal/Boozer/Brewer/Korver/Watson/.

Bulls had plenty of assets compared to most #1 picks. Rose did little to turn their fortune around.

:facepalm:

poleandreel
03-21-2012, 05:18 PM
:facepalm:

who says that? you won't hear any bulls fans say he's the full reason bulls are successful. obviously they can win without him, but in no way in hell, are they going to have any chance at a title without him. You can't win a title when your best ****ing player is missing no matter who it is.

And no one is saying that the bulls are not better with him. Never have I once read that. People are saying he is overrated because the media, many bulls fans, think he is the reason behind everything. Hence, the reason he won MVP last year.

With that said, you can be overrated but the team can still be better off having you. Overrated also doesn't mean that you are not good or great, it means that you are given to much credit for things.

The knicks are better with Amare starting at PF over someone like tyrus thomas but it does not mean Amare is not overrated.

ChitownSports16
03-21-2012, 05:20 PM
lmfao............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....

all people are doing in this thread is talking nonsense!

Vincent
03-21-2012, 05:38 PM
33-49 the year he was drafted.
41-41 The next year
41-41 again

Wow, what a huge increase in wins. Oh wait, the year he was drafted luol deng, drew gooden, ben wallace (all of whom were starters) missed 20+ games.

So the 8 win difference is probably not even attributable to him and more-so, to health.

Also, i never said there were still players on this team from those years. I said, he inherited a good team and not still has a good team. Meaning, he has never had to put up with the **** teams that CP3, Deron,Lebron,Wade,Durant all had to when they were young.

No one knows what DRose would do with a **** team. But to say he is the reason for all of the bulls success, or even most of it, is completely and utterly false.

EDIT: also,noah was on the team before Rose was drafted so sick knowledge of your team. 2/5 starters have been the same. Thats a huge component of a team.

My mistake, I forgot about Noah.

But to be fair, Noah was bench player his rookie year before Rose was drafted, and only started 55 games in 2008-2009 (Rose's rookie year) and was for the most part a non-factor his first two years (outside of the playoff series with Boston).

Gooden, Nocioni was traded at the trading deadline for Salmons and Miller and that's pretty much why the Bulls made a big run in the second half of the season (along with improved play by Derrick Rose and the diminishing role of Kirk Hinrich).

Selfolsha for Taj was after Rose was on the team (@ SteveNash).

I just don't understand how you can say that Rose doesn't have a major hand in the Bulls recent success when he's the focal point of the Bulls offense and leader in the locker room. He's the face of the franchise and is a big reason (not all of the reason) why the Bulls had the best record last season and the best record this season.

Vincent
03-21-2012, 05:40 PM
Nash didn't deserve those MVP's, but he was and is far superior to Rose.



Joakim Noah? They got Taj by trading Thabo. And they moved their assets to clear cap space so they could sign Scal/Boozer/Brewer/Korver/Watson/.

Bulls had plenty of assets compared to most #1 picks. Rose did little to turn their fortune around.

That's like saying Tim Duncan did little to turn their franchise around.

SteveNash
03-21-2012, 05:40 PM
:facepalm:

What's the facepalm for? Rose having a 10% gap in FG% compared to Nash?

SteveNash
03-21-2012, 05:41 PM
That's like saying Tim Duncan did little to turn their franchise around.

Truth

Blah Blah Blah
03-21-2012, 05:42 PM
And no one is saying that the bulls are not better with him. Never have I once read that. People are saying he is overrated because the media, many bulls fans, think he is the reason behind everything. Hence, the reason he won MVP last year.

With that said, you can be overrated but the team can still be better off having you. Overrated also doesn't mean that you are not good or great, it means that you are given to much credit for things.

The knicks are better with Amare starting at PF over someone like tyrus thomas but it does not mean Amare is not overrated.

The reason he won mvp was due to the bulls record being the best in the league. It's the unwritten rule it seem to win the mvp. the reason boston didn't win it when they had a great record is because they had the 'big 3'. Basically, a lot of it has to do with the bulls having the best record in the league.

Vincent
03-21-2012, 05:43 PM
Truth

But you don't deny that Tim Duncan is a great player right?

SteveNash
03-21-2012, 05:44 PM
My mistake, I forgot about Noah.

But to be fair, Noah was bench player his rookie year before Rose was drafted, and only started 55 games in 2008-2009 (Rose's rookie year) and was for the most part a non-factor his first two years (outside of the playoff series with Boston).

Gooden, Nocioni was traded at the trading deadline for Salmons and Miller and that's pretty much why the Bulls made a big run in the second half of the season (along with improved play by Derrick Rose and the diminishing role of Kirk Hinrich).

Selfolsha for Taj was after Rose was on the team (@ SteveNash).

I just don't understand how you can say that Rose doesn't have a major hand in the Bulls recent success when he's the focal point of the Bulls offense and leader in the locker room. He's the face of the franchise and is a big reason (not all of the reason) why the Bulls had the best record last season and the best record this season.

Because Bulls are winning primarily due to a change in defense, something Rose plays little part in.

Blah Blah Blah
03-21-2012, 05:44 PM
What's the facepalm for? Rose having a 10% gap in FG% compared to Nash?

And when has nash ever learned to play any kind of defense? seriously him and calderon have got to be the two worst ****ing perimeter defenders i have ever seen in my life. hence y opposing pgs have big games against them.

The bulls scheme on defense is a team oriented one. They don't have great one on one defenders outside of maybe deng/brewer...maybe even noah. just like how boston was great on defense, they didn't have great one on one defenders either outside of kg. And how the **** are u to talk about defense when supporting nash at all. That boy will go ringless, er sorry...already has.

Vincent
03-21-2012, 05:46 PM
Because Bulls are winning primarily due to a change in defense, something Rose plays little part in.

Naw, he's a fine defender.

haggis
03-21-2012, 05:50 PM
Because Bulls are winning primarily due to a change in defense, something Rose plays little part in.

Prove that.

SteveNash
03-21-2012, 05:52 PM
And when has nash ever learned to play any kind of defense? seriously him and calderon have got to be the two worst ****ing perimeter defenders i have ever seen in my life. hence y opposing pgs have big games against them.

The bulls scheme on defense is a team oriented one. They don't have great one on one defenders outside of maybe deng/brewer...maybe even noah/gibson. just like how boston was great on defense, they didn't have great one on one defenders either outside of maybe kg. And how the **** are u to talk about defense when supporting nash at all. That boy will go ringless, er sorry...already has.

I don't know why Bulls fans continue to bring up Nash's defense. Find me one instance where I say Nash is a good defender.

Complaining about Nash's defense, really is just you trying to deflect criticism from Rose, who is also a bad defender, but has the luxury of a great team defense behind him.

haggis
03-21-2012, 05:55 PM
Rose, who is also a bad defender.

Prove that.

D1JM
03-21-2012, 05:58 PM
is stevenash ralph12's ***** for life or what? he's had that signature for a long a time

Blah Blah Blah
03-21-2012, 06:06 PM
I don't know why Bulls fans continue to bring up Nash's defense. Find me one instance where I say Nash is a good defender.

Complaining about Nash's defense, really is just you trying to deflect criticism from Rose, who is also a bad defender, but has the luxury of a great team defense behind him.

Rose isn't a bad defender. He's not a great one either. I went thru the 'team oriented' defense already. The reason i mentioned nash is cuz, of you saying how nash is still better than rose right now. yes, nash has better court vision, but rose is a much much much better defender than nash, and can take over games unlike nash.

mc_9
03-21-2012, 07:24 PM
This.



Watson's a very good defender, i have no clue what you're talking about



Wrong, the Bulls average more assists in games he plays in.
Hell, Derrick Rose's ast% this season is 40.0% with only a 12.3tov%. He's averaging 8 assists a game. And the next player on the Bulls team with the highest ast% is Watson at only 26.9%. His ast/tov ratio is 2.73 this season, the highest of his career.



Chris Paul's assists numbers this year:
41.4ast% 11.3tov% 8.4apg with an incredible 3.96ast/tov ratio.

Rose this year:
40.0ast% 12.3tov% 8.0apg and a 2.73ast/tov ratio (all career bests).

Rose has never picked his spots better.



The Bulls have gone 10-4 without Rose. Teams they've played:

Washington ... Win
Memphis (w/o Randolph) ... Loss
Phoenix ... Win
Cleveland ... Win
Charlotte x2 ... Both wins
Boston x2... Split
Sacramento ... Win
New Jersey ... Loss
Miami ... Win
Portland ... Loss
Philly .... Win
Orlando ... Win

They're only impressive wins were against Boston (at home), Miami (at home), Philly (at home), and Orlando (on the road).

They've lost to New Jersey at home, Portland at home, Boston on the road.

The rest of their wins were against ****** teams.



:facepalm: you realize players do get hurt right? Injured, in fact?
He has one of the best clutch numbers in the league this season. He's stepped it up more than ever before. And he's played in 34 games this year. For comparison's sake, Wade's played in 35.



lol, you still post here?

Quoted for the truth.

Furthermore Bulls with Rose = 28 - 6 and without Rose = 10 - 4. Based on some simple maths if Rose had been out the entire season we would more then likely be sitting around 4th spot at around .600.

Rose takes the Bulls from being a good team, to a championship contender.

Shammyguy3
03-21-2012, 07:36 PM
Because Bulls are winning primarily due to a change in defense, something Rose plays little part in.

:laugh2: Rose is one of the best defensive point guards in the league. You're either blind or ignorant.



The bulls scheme on defense is a team oriented one. They don't have great one on one defenders outside of maybe deng/brewer...maybe even noah. just like how boston was great on defense, they didn't have great one on one defenders either outside of kg. And how the **** are u to talk about defense when supporting nash at all. That boy will go ringless, er sorry...already has.

Deng/Brewer/Asik/Gibson are absolutely phenomenal defensively.
Noah/Rose/Watson are really good defensively.
Korver/Rip average
Boozer below average.

The team is stacked with defenders.

AIRMAR72
03-21-2012, 10:24 PM
BASING it on his IQ for the game, yes the man is overrated and erratic

DaBear
03-21-2012, 10:31 PM
What's the facepalm for? Rose having a 10% gap in FG% compared to Nash?

Nash has zero defense, and is not near the playmaker Rose is. Keep on bashing Rose's FG%. You're obviously not bright enough to realize Rose takes a lot more shots per game than Nash does. Hater.

DaBear
03-21-2012, 10:34 PM
I don't know why Bulls fans continue to bring up Nash's defense. Find me one instance where I say Nash is a good defender.

Complaining about Nash's defense, really is just you trying to deflect criticism from Rose, who is also a bad defender, but has the luxury of a great team defense behind him.

And you continue to show how stupid you are..

justinnum1
03-21-2012, 10:42 PM
Nash has zero defense, and is not near the playmaker Rose is. Keep on bashing Rose's FG%. You're obviously not bright enough to realize Rose takes a lot more shots per game than Nash does. Hater.

I agree with everything but you saying nash is not near the playmaker rose is...care to back that up?

Nash is leading the league in assists...

If you are referring to rose's highlight plays, then yea, nash cant do that stuff.

MJ-BULLS
03-21-2012, 10:56 PM
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110410144509/icarly/images/a/ae/Don%27t_feed_the_trolls.jpg

Team*Chicago
03-21-2012, 11:18 PM
This thread was started by a hater, Derrick isn't no where near overrated. People on here was saying this team was a 1 man show and it wasn't nothing without Rose now this hater wants to credit the Bulls and Tom's defensive coaching.


I'm starting to wonder, as the Bulls have been playing fairly well without D-Rose this season, which is very apparent as of late with a win over the Heat and a blowout win over the Magic. Tibs' system is absolutely diesel. Not saying that the other players can't play as clearly Deng/Noah/Boozer can ball, so D-Rose may be getting too much credit. And after this, I think CP3 should be first team.

:facepalm:

smiddy012
03-21-2012, 11:34 PM
I don't know why Bulls fans continue to bring up Nash's defense. Find me one instance where I say Nash is a good defender.

Complaining about Nash's defense, really is just you trying to deflect criticism from Rose, who is also a bad defender, but has the luxury of a great team defense behind him.

Yeah the guy who single-handedly shut down CP3 the last two times he faced him... what a horrible defender that guy is :facepalm:

Whatever credibility you might have had before that statement is absolutely gone.

smiddy012
03-21-2012, 11:37 PM
I agree with everything but you saying nash is not near the playmaker rose is...care to back that up?

Nash is leading the league in assists...

If you are referring to rose's highlight plays, then yea, nash cant do that stuff.

Nash is a better passer no doubt. But there are only a select hand-full of players in the league who can single-handedly will their team to win and Rose is one of them.

D Roses Bulls
03-21-2012, 11:55 PM
when even Miami fans think this is bs, you know this thread is bait magnet.

justinnum1
03-21-2012, 11:56 PM
Nash is a better passer no doubt. But there are only a select hand-full of players in the league who can single-handedly will their team to win and Rose is one of them.

For sure, i just didnt know if he meant playmaking passing, or taking over a game/highlight type stuff.

Gram
03-22-2012, 12:03 AM
I think D Rose is rated fine. :shrug: Some over the top Bull fans do over rate him, but I don't talk to many Bull fans after they shunned me from their forum. :'(

Cal827
03-22-2012, 12:10 AM
Too high rated. 92 in NBA 2k12? Usually have to bring him down one or two points and Increase Scalabraine's to 99.

DaBear
03-22-2012, 04:33 AM
I agree with everything but you saying nash is not near the playmaker rose is...care to back that up?

Nash is leading the league in assists...

If you are referring to rose's highlight plays, then yea, nash cant do that stuff.

That's what I meant. He can't take over a game the way Rose does. The only thing Nash really has on Rose is passing IMO.

Ovratd1up
03-22-2012, 04:54 AM
Rose isn't overrated, you just weren't actually supposed to bring up Nash. Don't objectively compare anyone to Nash, he's secretly still the best offensive pg in the league.

JiffyMix88
03-22-2012, 06:15 AM
PSD hates when ppl enjoy their team and favorite players.