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View Full Version : When its all said and done, where do you think Howard will be ranked all-time?



kjoke
03-19-2012, 09:42 PM
Dwight Howard for clarification.

KnicksorBust
03-19-2012, 09:55 PM
His accolades are going to look remarkably impressive at the end of his career. He'll have plenty of All-NBA 1st teams and a record amount of DPOY awards. He'll be the best rebounder and defensive player for an entire decade. His lack of post season success will hold him back but he'll definately slide into the Top 50 of all-time with a solid mid/low 20s ceiling. I don't see him climbing higher than that.

Swashcuff
03-19-2012, 09:56 PM
Where ever Alonzo Mourning is just above him so I'd say top 50 for certain.

Raph12
03-19-2012, 10:54 PM
A lot can change in the next 10 years, hard to say... It's like asking where DRose, Durant, CP3, etc end up, you can't predict the future.

Fnom11
03-19-2012, 11:54 PM
Not high, where he should be. Dude really isn't that good. He just brings a lot to the table size and athletic wise. Plus he's going against the weakest era for centers ever.

Cfrey
03-19-2012, 11:56 PM
he's awful

5ass
03-20-2012, 12:06 AM
Where ever Alonzo Mourning is just above him so I'd say top 50 for certain.

I can agree with that. Could crack top 30 depending on what happens next, he's still young.

Fnom11
03-20-2012, 12:09 AM
I can agree with that. Could crack top 30 depending on what happens next, he's still young.

I'd take a prime Alzono over a prime Howard. Maybe that's my homerism though :confused:

5ass
03-20-2012, 12:14 AM
I'd take a prime Alzono over a prime Howard. Maybe that's my homerism though :confused:

u could definitely make a case for him, i just disagree.. Also we're not really sure what a prime howard is.

esterrke
03-20-2012, 12:16 AM
I can agree with that. Could crack top 30 depending on what happens next, he's still young. http://www.bicidi.info/jpg1I can agree with that. Could crack top 30 depending on what happens next

Fnom11
03-20-2012, 12:16 AM
u could definitely make a case for him, i just disagree.. Also we're not really sure what a prime howard is.

To be fair, we haven't really seen Dwight's prime yet. Or at least he's still in it. I feel like he could develop such a better offensive game. Dude could go down top 25 if he had a somewhat dominant offensive game.

Rndy
03-20-2012, 12:16 AM
He should start doing FT granny style who cares how it looks he'd be unstoppable. But he won't because these guys actually care what other people think.

Bruno
03-20-2012, 12:19 AM
His accolades are going to look remarkably impressive at the end of his career. He'll have plenty of All-NBA 1st teams and a record amount of DPOY awards. He'll be the best rebounder and defensive player for an entire decade. His lack of post season success will hold him back but he'll definately slide into the Top 50 of all-time with a solid mid/low 20s ceiling. I don't see him climbing higher than that.

i'd agree with this. But if he strings a decades worth of PERs above 24.0 along with 6-7+ DPOYS with 2-4 championships/Finals MVP he could crack top twenty.

shep33
03-20-2012, 12:23 AM
I would agree with the Alonzo Mourning statement. Although he can move ahead if his ppg dramatically increase

ManRam
03-20-2012, 12:27 AM
He's got some work to do to really climb up the rankings...

Rings...not even just that, just showing he can lead a team offensively and be a true go-to scorer...or a "closer" like he wants to be, but just isn't. Also, just a more polished offensive game, stronger leadership presence...

He's got a lot of time left to carve his legacy.

numba1CHANGsta
03-20-2012, 12:29 AM
Wayy too soon to talk about this right now

Young2Kinsler
03-20-2012, 12:30 AM
Josh Howard will probably be long forgotten

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 12:34 AM
Top 50......REALLY?


He has no jump shot and is half of what Shaq ever was. One of the most overrated players right now because lack of centers. Honestly, I think Bynum can be better with his overall game and I'm not joking.

Hate the lakers btw.

Raph12
03-20-2012, 12:37 AM
I'd take a prime Alzono over a prime Howard. Maybe that's my homerism though :confused:

Zo is overrated. if Dwight wins a single ring, he eclipses Zo already

UnWantedTheory
03-20-2012, 12:38 AM
Top 50......REALLY?


He has no jump shot and is half of what Shaq ever was. One of the most overrated players right now because lack of centers. Honestly, I think Bynum can be better with his overall game and I'm not joking.

Hate the lakers btw.

I might actually agree with this take. He is a badass, but is also a bit overrated.

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 12:43 AM
At times Howard looks unstoppable, he truly does. But unlike Shaq, he takes nights off. Howard is very good, but not even top 100 of all time thus far. He's young and has plenty of time but I don't know how much better he can get. He has been using his same game from the start of his career and it's like Shaq's except Shaq was night in and night out crushing dunks and mauling people.

The Shaq/Kobe era might have been one of the best teams ever.

last stand
03-20-2012, 12:59 AM
anyone who watched 90s basketball would tell you that dwight isn't even in the same stratosphere as any of the 90s centers. and thats ignoring the 80s, 70s and 60s centers who also are way ahead of howard

howard would have gotten beyond embarrassed in the 90s. he would have been made to look like a child. he wouldn't have even been able to crack 10 points against dennis rodman let alone the centers of the 90s

cutiepie80
03-20-2012, 01:02 AM
Hakeem, Shaq, Admiral, Ewing, just to name a few that were light years better.

Lakersfan2483
03-20-2012, 01:23 AM
Hard to say right now. Top 30 to 40 maybe??

LA_Raiders
03-20-2012, 01:31 AM
Top 25 for sure. His Numbers will be amazing when he is done... Too bad he wont get a ring...

Raph12
03-20-2012, 02:52 AM
Hakeem, Shaq, Admiral, Ewing, just to name a few that were light years better.

Ewing is also overrated, I can agree with the rest...

kArSoN RyDaH
03-20-2012, 03:27 AM
I'd say somewhere 30-40. NO higher.

AsfanSince99
03-20-2012, 04:06 AM
Dwight Howard for clarification.

wit his buddy Josh howard, both scrubs.

AnthonyTyrael
03-20-2012, 09:45 AM
Too early to tell, but he has to come up with something. Years back, most centers around, they would eat and spit him out asap. He has grace, he has somewhat of a physical presence talking about todays meanings (one could argue with steriods in the past now) but compared to the greats, he's just a yummy cake.

RLundi
03-20-2012, 10:03 AM
Top 50......REALLY?


He has no jump shot and is half of what Shaq ever was. One of the most overrated players right now because lack of centers. Honestly, I think Bynum can be better with his overall game and I'm not joking.

Hate the lakers btw.

I agree with this. He's a smidgen overrated, coming from a Magic fan. The impact he has on the game with the right coach and system is unquestionable though.

I do agree Bynum can be better from an offensive standpoint (he might be there already) but Dwight will always have more of an impact on the game, especially on the defensive end.

ManningToTyree
03-20-2012, 10:24 AM
Too early to really know, but top 50 for sure. Ceiling around 20.

nickdymez
03-20-2012, 12:14 PM
I'd take a prime Alzono over a prime Howard. Maybe that's my homerism though :confused:

It is your Homerism

valade16
03-20-2012, 12:30 PM
I keep hearing people say things like "once he develops his offense" and I have to laugh, this is his 8th NBA season. At this point it is not when but if he will ever develop an offensive post game.

Heck his FTs and post game have barely improved in 8 years, I'm not holding my breath in season 9...

As far as Center's go, it would take a miracle to surpass Wilt, KAJ or Russell, likewise he probably won't ever pass Hakeem Olajuwan, Shaq, or David Robinson. You could argue guys like Alonzo or Ewing but I think he'll surpass them by the time it's all said and done, which still leaves him at best the 7th best Center, and that's if I haven't forgotten anybody...

last stand
03-20-2012, 01:13 PM
Ewing is also overrated, I can agree with the rest...


If Ewing is overrated what is dwight.

CoffeeJanitor
03-20-2012, 02:18 PM
Top 100 probably.

KB-Pau-DH2012
03-20-2012, 02:57 PM
Howard Eisley was a beast for the Utah Jazz back in the late 90's.

nycsports2
03-20-2012, 03:09 PM
top 10 center ever

AIMelo=KillaDUO
03-20-2012, 03:21 PM
Alonzo Mourning, David Robinson area. Dwight is a straight up beast.

Rockwilderz
03-20-2012, 03:24 PM
Mourning > Dwight

Ewing > Dwight

KnicksorBust
03-20-2012, 03:39 PM
At times Howard looks unstoppable, he truly does. But unlike Shaq, he takes nights off. Howard is very good, but not even top 100 of all time thus far. He's young and has plenty of time but I don't know how much better he can get. He has been using his same game from the start of his career and it's like Shaq's except Shaq was night in and night out crushing dunks and mauling people.

The Shaq/Kobe era might have been one of the best teams ever.

Not the best comparison. Shaq took entire regular seasons off.

In regards to Howard not being top 100 of all-time, I don't think you've ever really sat down and looked at his body of work:

6 NBA All-Star (20072012)
4 All-NBA First Team (20082011)
3 NBA Defensive Player of the Year (20092011)

You'd be hard pressed to find 50 guys with more impressive resumes.


I keep hearing people say things like "once he develops his offense" and I have to laugh, this is his 8th NBA season. At this point it is not when but if he will ever develop an offensive post game.

Heck his FTs and post game have barely improved in 8 years, I'm not holding my breath in season 9...

As far as Center's go, it would take a miracle to surpass Wilt, KAJ or Russell, likewise he probably won't ever pass Hakeem Olajuwan, Shaq, or David Robinson. You could argue guys like Alonzo or Ewing but I think he'll surpass them by the time it's all said and done, which still leaves him at best the 7th best Center, and that's if I haven't forgotten anybody...

If you think he still doesn't have an offensive post game, then you don't watch him play. He'll never be Hakeem but he's more than just a dunker. I don't buy that rep anymore.

valade16
03-20-2012, 04:13 PM
If you think he still doesn't have an offensive post game, then you don't watch him play. He'll never be Hakeem but he's more than just a dunker. I don't buy that rep anymore.

I'd go a bit further. If Hakeem Olajuwan had ceased learning any new post moves once he finished college his Post game would still be far better than Howards, that's how big the disparity is.

Howard has a post game? Groovy for him. Is it anywhere near the best in the league? Absolutely not. In fact, it's not in the same stratosphere as guys like Bynum, Aldridge, or Pau Gasol...

you don't have to "buy the rep". The fact remains, in his 8 years as a pro, his offensive game has improved from freakishly athletic to ... still freakishly athletic.

Crackadalic
03-20-2012, 04:18 PM
Top 50 when its all said and done

CoffeeJanitor
03-20-2012, 04:19 PM
I'd go a bit further. If Hakeem Olajuwan had ceased learning any new post moves once he finished college his Post game would still be far better than Howards, that's how big the disparity is.

Howard has a post game? Groovy for him. Is it anywhere near the best in the league? Absolutely not. In fact, it's not in the same stratosphere as guys like Bynum, Aldridge, or Pau Gasol...

you don't have to "buy the rep". The fact remains, in his 8 years as a pro, his offensive game has improved from freakishly athletic to ... still freakishly athletic.Freaking KLove has a better post game than Howard. Its ridiculous.

Raph12
03-20-2012, 04:25 PM
If Ewing is overrated what is dwight.

Underrated, significantly.

Rockwilderz
03-20-2012, 04:28 PM
Underrated, significantly.


Please explain how Dwight is "underrated"? :eyebrow:

Raph12
03-20-2012, 04:59 PM
Please explain how Dwight is "underrated"? :eyebrow:

Saying stuff like "Top 100" when it's said and done; or Kevin Love has better post moves; or how about my favorite "Bynum is better than Dwight now"... Dwight is already past "Top 100", his postmoves are much improved (up-and-unders, dreamshakes, running hook with both hands, power moves, spin moves, baseline drive, etc) and he's on a completely different level than Andrew Bynum... When he retires, he'll have about 6-7 DPOY awards, 10+ AS appearances, 10+ All-NBA accolades and who knows, maybe even a ring/MVP or two. No way he's "Top 100" or even Top 50 at best.

valade16
03-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Saying stuff like "Top 100" when it's said and done; or Kevin Love has better post moves; or how about my favorite "Bynum is better than Dwight now"... Dwight is already past "Top 100", his postmoves are much improved (up-and-unders, dreamshakes, running hook with both hands, power moves, spin moves, baseline drive, etc) and he's on a completely different level than Andrew Bynum... When he retires, he'll have about 6-7 DPOY awards, 10+ AS appearances, 10+ All-NBA accolades and who knows, maybe even a ring/MVP or two. No way he's "Top 100" or even Top 50 at best.

:laugh:

You make it sound like he is good at all those things. Because he one time did the dream shake doesn't mean he's good at it.

He does not have a very good post game for an all-time great at all.

Other than that, I agree with what you said.

Raph12
03-20-2012, 05:26 PM
:laugh:

You make it sound like he is good at all those things. Because he one time did the dream shake doesn't mean he's good at it.

He does not have a very good post game for an all-time great at all.

Other than that, I agree with what you said.

Actually if you watch him in his last 20 games or so, he's been doing those things very often. Just yesterday against the Bulls, he did an up-and-under, a dreamshake, a running left-handed hook, right-handed hook on the right block over his left shoulder, left-handed hook on the left block over his right shoulder and a spin move when Noah was trying to front him... He's been doing stuff like this for a while now, you guys just don't watch him as much as we do.

5ass
03-20-2012, 05:29 PM
no doubt howards offensive game is still very underrated.

BULLSFAN0810
03-20-2012, 05:39 PM
Not a top 10 center.....thats where he'll rank

king2218
03-20-2012, 05:40 PM
i'd agree with this. But if he strings a decades worth of PERs above 24.0 along with 6-7+ DPOYS with 2-4 championships/Finals MVP he could crack top twenty.

If he finishes with 6 DPOY & 2 championships, he could end in the top 10 easily...maybe even surpass Hakeem with those accolades...cause when its all said and done Howard probably will end up with NBA's rebounds and blocks record.

THE GIPPER
03-20-2012, 05:49 PM
no doubt howards offensive game is still very underrated.

I agree. I think his offensive game has become a bit underrated because he looks really awkward at times. If he can start making free throws it would help a lot too.

5ass
03-20-2012, 05:50 PM
If he finishes with 6 DPOY & 2 championships, he could end in the top 10 easily...maybe even surpass Hakeem with those accolades...cause when its all said and done Howard probably will end up with NBA's rebounds and blocks record.

I dont think howard will ever pass hakeem, but thats partially because i think very highly of hakeem

BULLSFAN0810
03-20-2012, 05:50 PM
If he finishes with 6 DPOY & 2 championships, he could end in the top 10 easily...maybe even surpass Hakeem with those accolades...cause when its all said and done Howard probably will end up with NBA's rebounds and blocks record.

Then you better tell him...as of now he is actually a joke. he is like LBJ. They talk all this i wanna win a ship speech. But they arent Dominate as they should be and 7 years into thier NBA LIFESPAN they havent progressed pass a 3rd year guy... They wanna ball with their friends,party,have a skype load of children...if you fhucking,you def not practicing...this fool got 5 baby mommas ...thats my indicator. As of now its him...HE had a good team at one point,and like LBJ instead of saying i wasnt good enough...i couldnt post good and be dominate to make my team mates job easier...he blamed his team and organization...SCREW HOWARD

5ass
03-20-2012, 05:51 PM
I agree. I think his offensive game has become a bit underrated because he looks really awkward at times. If he can start making free throws it would help a lot too.

look for his FT shooting to improve next season after a full offseason with Marc Price. I dont expect him to be a great FT shooter, just good enough

5ass
03-20-2012, 05:54 PM
Then you better tell him...as of now he is actually a joke. he is like LBJ. They talk all this i wanna win a ship speech. But they arent Dominate as they should be and 7 years into thier NBA LIFESPAN they havent progressed pass a 3rd year guy... They wanna ball with their friends,party,have a skype load of children...if you fhucking,you def not practicing...this fool got 5 baby mommas ...thats my indicator. As of now its him...HE had a good team at one point,and like LBJ instead of saying i wasnt good enough...i couldnt post good and be dominate to make my team mates job easier...he blamed his team and organization...SCREW HOWARD

lol tell that to kobe.

Rndy
03-20-2012, 05:55 PM
Howard has really improved in the Post game. I think he needs to demand the ball more and he needs to continue to repost after he passes the ball. With his athletic ability and size nobody should be able to match up against him.

THE GIPPER
03-20-2012, 05:56 PM
look for his FT shooting to improve next season after a full offseason with Marc Price. I dont expect him to be a great FT shooter, just good enough

Yeah hopefully. Its just strange that his FT% was best during his rookie year, then every year after it dropped about 8% to just under 60% from the line. And now this year its gotten even worse at just under 50%.

Raph12
03-20-2012, 05:56 PM
Then you better tell him...as of now he is actually a joke. he is like LBJ. They talk all this i wanna win a ship speech. But they arent Dominate as they should be and 7 years into thier NBA LIFESPAN they havent progressed pass a 3rd year guy... They wanna ball with their friends,party,have a skype load of children...if you fhucking,you def not practicing...this fool got 5 baby mommas ...thats my indicator. As of now its him...HE had a good team at one point,and like LBJ instead of saying i wasnt good enough...i couldnt post good and be dominate to make my team mates job easier...he blamed his team and organization...SCREW HOWARD

This is why the Bulls fanbase gets a bad name, what a joke of a post, dissing arguably the two best players in the league...

Bishnoff
03-20-2012, 05:59 PM
Top 50.

BULLSFAN0810
03-20-2012, 06:13 PM
lol tell that to kobe.

Kobe has rings...Kobe has dropped 81...NO ONE QUESTIONS HIS DEDICATION. Even if he is jacking 30000 shoots...Howard doesnt ask for the ball,so to me he isnt dominate even as a leader on his own squad where he is clearly the leader.

BULLSFAN0810
03-20-2012, 06:30 PM
This is why the Bulls fanbase gets a bad name, what a joke of a post, dissing arguably the two best players in the league...

LOOK...If they are the 2 best in the game, the game is in shakey hands...And if your fan base was like ours youd prob do better... We dont take too much skype......you guys let this guy run all over you and the ppl of the city...he and LBJ they did ppl like skype...you better take notes on CLev and how he did them before and aftr he left. You guys brought in WHOEVER he wanted, OVER PAID for RASHARD LEWIS for this guy...Brought in Arenas , he still wasnt happy....brought in VC...brought back Turkglu...none of it panned out but ORl had his back...I look at him. He talks all the LEADER SKYPE but doesnt demand the ball so that tells me your not a leader,bc even in pick up ball we all now who the best is and he normally takes all the shots or delegates shots...Howard cant/doesnt/wont...I was wishing as we blew Orl out Howard would Begg for the ball and go SHAQ...HE CANT/HE ISNT SHAQ. SO you guys kiss this dude butt...look at his game it took him 7 years to START TO DEVELOP IT...WHAT WAS HE DOING HIS 1st 6 years? He doesnt demand a double team...BYNUM DOES...BYNUM ON A KOBE LED TEAM DROPS 30 And gets doubled:facepalm:

Swashcuff
03-20-2012, 06:54 PM
If he finishes with 6 DPOY & 2 championships, he could end in the top 10 easily...maybe even surpass Hakeem with those accolades...cause when its all said and done Howard probably will end up with NBA's rebounds and blocks record.

I've been on Dwight's side all through this argument but there is no chance in hell of him ending up in the top 10 much less ahead of the most skilled big man the game has ever produced. Hakeem was better than Dwight in every single aspect of basketball. All Dwight has on the Dream is athleticism and nothing else. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

Swashcuff
03-20-2012, 06:57 PM
As for Dwight being underrated I fully agree. Dwight is already one of the most efficient scorers ever despite the fact that he has one of the least polished offensive games of the great Cs that the NBA has produced. Despite being limited offensively he's been extremely efficient on that end throughout his career even without an actual all star calibre #2.

For someone to say Dwight is barely top 100 when its all said and done just proves that that person knows nothing about the history of the NBA so I won't necessarily say ignorance such as that makes him underrated. Dwight is already top 100 there is not questioning that.

Raph12
03-20-2012, 07:00 PM
LOOK...If they are the 2 best in the game, the game is in shakey hands...And if your fan base was like ours youd prob do better... We dont take too much skype......you guys let this guy run all over you and the ppl of the city...he and LBJ they did ppl like skype...you better take notes on CLev and how he did them before and aftr he left. You guys brought in WHOEVER he wanted, OVER PAID for RASHARD LEWIS for this guy...Brought in Arenas , he still wasnt happy....brought in VC...brought back Turkglu...none of it panned out but ORl had his back...I look at him. He talks all the LEADER SKYPE but doesnt demand the ball so that tells me your not a leader,bc even in pick up ball we all now who the best is and he normally takes all the shots or delegates shots...Howard cant/doesnt/wont...I was wishing as we blew Orl out Howard would Begg for the ball and go SHAQ...HE CANT/HE ISNT SHAQ. SO you guys kiss this dude butt...look at his game it took him 7 years to START TO DEVELOP IT...WHAT WAS HE DOING HIS 1st 6 years? He doesnt demand a double team...BYNUM DOES...BYNUM ON A KOBE LED TEAM DROPS 30 And gets doubled:facepalm:

Dwight didn't ask for Shard to be signed, nor was he happy when Shard was traded for Arenas (he grew attached to Arenas after the trade, not prior). He was pissed when Lee was traded for VC and getting Turk back was Otis' idea.

Bynum sucks, he gets doubled because he can't pass worth a damn, doubling Bynum ensures he messes up; hell he has a 16+% turnover rate in post plays. If Dwight could shoot FTs even remotely well (70%), he could easily be a 25-30ppg player, he avged 23ppg last season while shooting only 59% from the line... Please don't bring up Bynum, he's the worst post option of the big 3 (Kobe-Pau-Bynum), yet he gets the most post plays run for him of the group.

We aren't delusional Cavs fans who think we'll retain him no matter what, and to be honest, if we can't build a contending team around him, we know he's going to leave and I'm pretty sure most of our fans have made peace with that. We're just happy to have him play for us for another season and chances are, we get a better offer next season than we would've at this deadline.

Swashcuff
03-20-2012, 07:01 PM
At times Howard looks unstoppable, he truly does. But unlike Shaq, he takes nights off. Howard is very good, but not even top 100 of all time thus far. He's young and has plenty of time but I don't know how much better he can get. He has been using his same game from the start of his career and it's like Shaq's except Shaq was night in and night out crushing dunks and mauling people.

The Shaq/Kobe era might have been one of the best teams ever.

Outside of the obvious (lets go with PSD's top 50 even though some of those are debatable you can find the link here (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=635088) can you name those players who are keeping Dwight out of the top 100?

last stand
03-20-2012, 07:15 PM
Underrated, significantly.

did you watch 90s basketball at all? dwight couldn't touch any of the 90s centers. i'm just talking eye test. i don't want to bring stats into it because that'll embarrass dwight and i don't find that necessary

Raph12
03-20-2012, 07:22 PM
did you watch 90s basketball at all? dwight couldn't touch any of the 90s centers. i'm just talking eye test. i don't want to bring stats into it because that'll embarrass dwight and i don't find that necessary

Dwight's stats are better than Zo's and Ewing's, if you mean Dwight isn't better than Shaq, DRob and Dream, I agree with you, but those guys are all top 5 centers of all-time in my book (1. Kareem, 2. Wilt, 3. Shaq, 4. Dream and 5. DRob/Russell)... The 90s was the era of the center, he'd be top 3 at worst in any other era, at worst.

UPRock
03-20-2012, 07:24 PM
He's young as hell, I can't say.

BULLSFAN0810
03-20-2012, 07:39 PM
Dwight didn't ask for Shard to be signed, nor was he happy when Shard was traded for Arenas (he grew attached to Arenas after the trade, not prior). He was pissed when Lee was traded for VC and getting Turk back was Otis' idea.

Bynum sucks, he gets doubled because he can't pass worth a damn, doubling Bynum ensures he messes up; hell he has a 16+% turnover rate in post plays. If Dwight could shoot FTs even remotely well (70%), he could easily be a 25-30ppg player, he avged 23ppg last season while shooting only 59% from the line... Please don't bring up Bynum, he's the worst post option of the big 3 (Kobe-Pau-Bynum), yet he gets the most post plays run for him of the group.

We aren't delusional Cavs fans who think we'll retain him no matter what, and to be honest, if we can't build a contending team around him, we know he's going to leave and I'm pretty sure most of our fans have made peace with that. We're just happy to have him play for us for another season and chances are, we get a better offer next season than we would've at this deadline.

YOU STILL DONT GET IT...What im say is ...ORLANDO MOVED HEAVEN AND EARTH FOR THIS GUY...He isnt a leader,he cant rally no troops. He made it to the finals and still *****ing,but he cant shoot freethrows,but thats not bad...whats bad is as an outsider,i feel bad for your team...all he did was prolong the idea of him leaving. what can you do with that roster in a year thatll put it over Miami,Chicago? Better yet what can you do to catch up to the Knicks,Pacers etc? SKYPE!!! He pulling your chain..your being DHICK TEASED. He is setting it up for the next big FA pool. Bynum gets doubled bc he is scoring..you dont leave a man to double unless said guy with ball is scoring. Im not saying Bynum is much better...i just believe a TAD better..with all the Physically tools howard has Bynum is more polished BIGGER AND MORE HUNGRIER...ALL YOU GOTTA DO IS WATCH THE GAME. Ill take a hungry big man in the post over a 7 foot Blake Griffen.

last stand
03-20-2012, 08:17 PM
Dwight's stats are better than Zo's and Ewing's, if you mean Dwight isn't better than Shaq, DRob and Dream, I agree with you, but those guys are all top 5 centers of all-time in my book (1. Kareem, 2. Wilt, 3. Shaq, 4. Dream and 5. DRob/Russell)... The 90s was the era of the center, he'd be top 3 at worst in any other era, at worst.

how is he statistically better than ewing. ewing had dwight in points, blocks, steals, assists, free throw shooting

all dwight has ewing on is rebounding and FG%

KnicksorBust
03-20-2012, 08:26 PM
I'd go a bit further. If Hakeem Olajuwan had ceased learning any new post moves once he finished college his Post game would still be far better than Howards, that's how big the disparity is.

Howard has a post game? Groovy for him. Is it anywhere near the best in the league? Absolutely not. In fact, it's not in the same stratosphere as guys like Bynum, Aldridge, or Pau Gasol...

you don't have to "buy the rep". The fact remains, in his 8 years as a pro, his offensive game has improved from freakishly athletic to ... still freakishly athletic.

I say this without any intent to bait you. I just don't honestly believe you watch him play.


Saying stuff like "Top 100" when it's said and done; or Kevin Love has better post moves; or how about my favorite "Bynum is better than Dwight now"... Dwight is already past "Top 100", his postmoves are much improved (up-and-unders, dreamshakes, running hook with both hands, power moves, spin moves, baseline drive, etc) and he's on a completely different level than Andrew Bynum... When he retires, he'll have about 6-7 DPOY awards, 10+ AS appearances, 10+ All-NBA accolades and who knows, maybe even a ring/MVP or two. No way he's "Top 100" or even Top 50 at best.

It's easier to just quote a Magic fan to prove my point here.

valade16
03-20-2012, 08:52 PM
I say this without any intent to bait you. I just don't honestly believe you watch him play.

It's easier to just quote a Magic fan to prove my point here.

Quote him all you like, saying things like "Dream Shake" doesn't mean that Dwight Howard is any good at it.

I can say 3-point shot, dribble drive, crossover.... doesn't mean Dwight is any good at those either.

I've seen Dwight get pretty good at that hop-step into the lane where he kind of hooks it in with his right hand, I've also seen him bull his way to a dunk. Other than that you see the occasional post move by dwight.

But do you really think he has a good post game or that he has a large repetoire of post moves? I'd really like to know if you think that.

Swashcuff
03-20-2012, 08:57 PM
how is he statistically better than ewing. ewing had dwight in points, blocks, steals, assists, free throw shooting

all dwight has ewing on is rebounding and FG%

Why try to engage in a statistical debate when you're going to be selective and not look at the bigger picture?

valade16
03-20-2012, 09:13 PM
Why try to engage in a statistical debate when you're going to be selective and not look at the bigger picture?

Bigger picture? Patrick Ewing has had a higher Defensive Win Share in a season that Dwight. He's had a higher Offensive win share than Dwight before. He has a lower TOV%, a slightly higher BLCK%, slightly higher AST%, and essentially the same STL%.

And I think a very telling point is that Ewing's Usage Rate was higher than Dwights (28 to 23.5) even in peak years (31.5 to 27.2).

The Advanced stats aren't as black/white in favor of Dwight as many seem to think.

Apparently the fact that Howard rebounds at a higher clip and shoots a higher % is enough to sway stats like WS/48 and PER way to Dwight's side but I'm not buying that Dwight was a clearly better player than Ewing based on PER.

Dom A N8 U
03-20-2012, 09:13 PM
Dwight didn't ask for Shard to be signed, nor was he happy when Shard was traded for Arenas (he grew attached to Arenas after the trade, not prior). He was pissed when Lee was traded for VC and getting Turk back was Otis' idea.

Bynum sucks, he gets doubled because he can't pass worth a damn, doubling Bynum ensures he messes up; hell he has a 16+% turnover rate in post plays. If Dwight could shoot FTs even remotely well (70%), he could easily be a 25-30ppg player, he avged 23ppg last season while shooting only 59% from the line... Please don't bring up Bynum, he's the worst post option of the big 3 (Kobe-Pau-Bynum), yet he gets the most post plays run for him of the group.

We aren't delusional Cavs fans who think we'll retain him no matter what, and to be honest, if we can't build a contending team around him, we know he's going to leave and I'm pretty sure most of our fans have made peace with that. We're just happy to have him play for us for another season and chances are, we get a better offer next season than we would've at this deadline.


Ralph, shut up already with Bynum being the 3rd best post option on the lakers, you dont watch the games, turn on a laker game already or just shut up, Bynum is dominating the post right now, 2 nights ago Shaq even stated, this Kid may end up with his Jersey in the Rafters some day, and trust me, Shaq does not give any center props, he has always hated Bynum.

Raps08-09 Champ
03-20-2012, 09:16 PM
Depends who else is there.

There could be like 20 people better than him in the next 20 years. So he'd have to compete with people already in the top 50 and the 20 or more players that might not even be in the NBA yet.

willabeast77
03-20-2012, 09:19 PM
Top 10 Centre of alltime

Sactown
03-20-2012, 09:21 PM
Ralph, shut up already with Bynum being the 3rd best post option on the lakers, you dont watch the games, turn on a laker game already or just shut up, Bynum is dominating the post right now, 2 nights ago Shaq even stated, this Kid may end up with his Jersey in the Rafters some day, and trust me, Shaq does not give any center props, he has always hated Dwight Howard.

fixed

Raph12
03-21-2012, 01:25 AM
Ralph, shut up already with Bynum being the 3rd best post option on the lakers, you dont watch the games, turn on a laker game already or just shut up, Bynum is dominating the post right now, 2 nights ago Shaq even stated, this Kid may end up with his Jersey in the Rafters some day, and trust me, Shaq does not give any center props, he has always hated Bynum.

Bynum is overrated by you and the rest of the Lakers fans, yes he's the second best center in the league, but not by much. And the difference between him and Dwight is great, I really don't care what you think you're watching, Bynum's stats in the post are worse than both Kobe and Pau. Oh and Shaq loves Bynum, he's called him the best big in the league time and time again. Shaq hates Dwight, not Bynum, yet he still admitted that he only said stuff like that (about Bynum) because he was trying to "motivate another great big man"... Cry me a river dude, I'll say what I want, when I want.

JPS
03-21-2012, 01:55 AM
Not sure if he ends up top 10 center but he will be close. Right now I take Wilt/ Russell/ Kareem/Moses/Hakeem/Admiral/ Ewing/Shaq/Morning/ Mikkan over Howard. I think he could be 9 or 10 now actually. List was not an order just the order I remembered them. On the Ewing debate I would take Ewing over Howard on the eye test. Ewing was huge and the only person I can remeber him getting beat by was when Shaq just physically dominatied him. I don't think Howard has the size to do that.

Champology
03-21-2012, 06:44 AM
He woulda got smashed against any good center back in da day...NO Mental toughness...all athelete no heart

Swashcuff
03-21-2012, 09:31 AM
Not sure if he ends up top 10 center but he will be close. Right now I take Wilt/ Russell/ Kareem/Moses/Hakeem/Admiral/ Ewing/Shaq/Morning/ Mikkan over Howard. I think he could be 9 or 10 now actually. List was not an order just the order I remembered them. On the Ewing debate I would take Ewing over Howard on the eye test. Ewing was huge and the only person I can remeber him getting beat by was when Shaq just physically dominatied him. I don't think Howard has the size to do that.

Lets not ignore Bill Walton one of the greatest peaks ever. Howard is better than Mikan but relative to era Mikan was more valuable than Howard. Dwight can possibly get ahead of Morning and Ewing I don't really see him being ahead of the others that you mentioned.

D-Leethal
03-21-2012, 09:48 AM
I think the thing with Dwight and his back to the basket game is that, while he may have improved some moves here and there he doesn't look comfortable at all or patient at all when he gets the ball. He still looks like a fish out of water when he posts guys up and he does not have a soft touch at all around the hoop. The key to being a beast in the post is being comfortable, patient, reading the defense around you and passing out of it to open cutters and shooters. Dwight still doesn't do that.

I am dissapointed in how little Dwight has improved his fundamental offensive skills since coming into the league. I have nothing against the guy and hes one of the best defenders and rebounders of all time, super nice guy and a good role model. But I call it like I see it, and I don't think he is very tough mentally. Seems to quit too easily.

rapjuicer06
03-21-2012, 11:46 AM
did you watch 90s basketball at all? dwight couldn't touch any of the 90s centers. i'm just talking eye test. i don't want to bring stats into it because that'll embarrass dwight and i don't find that necessary

Did you watch basketball in the 90's? Did you see how physical the game was? Who does that favor?

90's early 2000 era was one of the most physical era's ever

2007 or so to present is one of the biggest ***** era's of all time. You put Dwight in the 90's, I bet he would be just as physical as all of them. He can't be physical now. Once he gets physical and tries to back his way to the hoop, someone will flop and he gets called for a charge. Shaq would lift people off of him as he bulldozed his way to the hoop. I remember a play when Matumbo was guarding Shaq in the finals, and was pretty much leaning completely on Shaq, and Shaq just backed his way to the rim. You do that now, the guy flops like a fish and gets the call.

The sad thing is no one will know how good Dwight is until he gets another guy with him. The best player Dwight has had play with him is either Lewis or Hedo...Neither are/were great by any means of the word. Give Dwight ANYONE and it'll change. Give Dwight Iggy/Wallace/Gay/Granger/....any SF/SG that isn't elite, but can still play some sort of defense and slash to the hoop, and I bet Dwight would put up much better numbers and probably win a championship. Hell Dwight took a team of Hedo/Lewis/Alston/Nelson/Gortat/Pietrus/Lee/Battie to the finals, and hung with the Lakers. You swap out Pietrus or Lee with Iggy/Wallace/Gay/Granger and the Magic could DEF. have won that series. Howard is in the worst possible situation offensively than any other player in the league. Being on a team that all 4 other players look to shoot first before they get him the ball, thats just ridiculous.