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StealingSigns
03-17-2012, 03:31 PM
The last one filled up pretty quick...

es0terik
03-17-2012, 03:45 PM
JP Arencibia with a bomb in the Phillies game :)

Farsight
03-17-2012, 03:54 PM
JP Arencibia with a bomb in the Phillies game :) Where you able to get the streams on MLB.TV?

Bombtista
03-17-2012, 03:59 PM
Clutch homer by Bocock there in the 9th to give us the lead. Sucks we snapped the winning streak though with the Atlanta loss

rapsjaysfan88
03-17-2012, 04:05 PM
man i really hope rasmus can have a good season because he hasnt been impressive so far this spring

the_jon
03-17-2012, 05:41 PM
Sure hope this carries over into the regular season. Nice to see 12-4 next to that new Jays logo though, even if it's just spring training.

es0terik
03-17-2012, 05:47 PM
Where you able to get the streams on MLB.TV?

Nah I didnt try. I had the stream torrent link for the Phillies game.

I kinda had a feeling since yesterday that because it was a split squad game against the Braves and Phillies, we'd lose both of em. Still saw some good stuff by the Jays. One thing I really noted was how the Jays ran up the pitch counts on the Phillies guys. That's something we didn't do last year.

Stupid 3-11 Braves beat us :(

the_jon
03-18-2012, 09:01 AM
Jays game on sportsnet today :jumpy:

ILDD
03-18-2012, 10:20 AM
First TV game today so I'll be at my usual bar with my friends.

We run a Blue Jays pool so we sit around drinking and thinking of questions like "first rbi of the season, highest HR total (excluding Bautista), how many round trips Vegas does Mike McCoy make"

I can't wait, it's like Christmas morning!

Dol-Fan
03-18-2012, 10:57 AM
Gose hit a triple yesterday. BlueBirdBanter says "Wow, is he fast. Flew around the bases"

Hope we get a chance to watch this kid this afternoon.

fatkev78
03-18-2012, 11:48 AM
Gregor Chisholm‏
#BlueJays pitchers for today are: Cecil (four innings), Villanueva (2), Frasor, Janssen, Cordero.


#BlueJays d'Arnaud, McGuire, McDade and Gil have been sent to Minor League camp.


Lawrie (left groin) said he continues to feel better and it's not anything serious but better to take cautious approach. still classified as day to day. As expected he will get another day off today and won't travel to Fort Myers on Tuesday.


Blue Jays-Official
Today's Line-up: Escobar SS, Vizquel 3B, Bautista RF, Lind 1B, Encarnacion LF, Francisco DH, Davis CF, McCoy 2B, Gomes C.

Farsight
03-18-2012, 11:52 AM
. Im not really thrilled to see the pitcher pitch

Bombtista
03-18-2012, 12:29 PM
Im not really thrilled to see the pitcher pitch

yeahh.... Still we get to see Cordero. If he can pitch well we have one hell of a bullpen

And as much as we hate on him I think Cecil can handle 4 innings a lot better than 6 or 7

StealingSigns
03-18-2012, 02:14 PM
haha McCoy with some trickery there. Nice bunt

Sanyo
03-18-2012, 02:21 PM
Yan Gomes looks eerily like JP Arencibia.

wagnall
03-18-2012, 02:22 PM
Gomes still swinging a big stick. Looks good out there. Plays 1st as well. Nice to see.

treeleaf
03-18-2012, 02:27 PM
Its funny but every time i look, EE is on base. He must be one of our top 3 bats.

phillipmike
03-18-2012, 02:34 PM
Yan Gomes looks eerily like JP Arencibia.

Thats who i thought it was.

Apparently they are both Cuban and went to the same HS in Tennessee.

bomber0104
03-18-2012, 02:40 PM
so Pat Hentgen really likes Syndergaard

wagnall
03-18-2012, 02:42 PM
How did Lind get on base, changed channel, wasn't a hit. Just surprised me he was actually on base.

wagnall
03-18-2012, 02:43 PM
so Pat Hentgen really likes Syndergaard


no kidding, sounds like he wants him now!!!:cool:

wagnall
03-18-2012, 02:46 PM
Vizquel is just a nice guy, and as a switch hitter, and getting his hits, see no problem with his def. at 2nd , SS and 3rd. Really hope he is the extra INF back up.

Sanyo
03-18-2012, 02:55 PM
People forget JP Arencibia can also speak Spanish -- so he has his crew like Lawrie and Snider but can also hang out easily with guys like Escobar and Alvarez, which is a big bonus!

Sanyo
03-18-2012, 02:55 PM
Syndergaard is my future slotted ace of the team...

the_jon
03-18-2012, 02:56 PM
Vizquel is just a nice guy, and as a switch hitter, and getting his hits, see no problem with his def. at 2nd , SS and 3rd. Really hope he is the extra INF back up.
I don't think you can go wrong with him or Valbuena. Even if he doesn't make it, you can send him to AAA to work with Hech and still get your moneys worth. He's valuable to us as a mentor.

Eagles4Lyfe
03-18-2012, 02:56 PM
Who the heck is this gomes guy he's pretty solid. Who needs mathis this guy can be our backup catcher.

the_jon
03-18-2012, 02:57 PM
Syndergaard is my future slotted ace of the team...
:pray:

the_jon
03-18-2012, 02:59 PM
Who the heck is this gomes guy he's pretty solid. Who needs mathis this guy can be our backup catcher.
Yeah I'm not sure I've heard of him either. His swing looks pretty smooth, very Arencibia-like. I don't really want Mathis anywhere near our roster anyways so why not give this guy a shot?

the_jon
03-18-2012, 03:00 PM
Wow Bautista homered during the commercial :laugh:

Eagles4Lyfe
03-18-2012, 03:02 PM
:laugh2: :laugh2:
I seriously am out of words to describe Bautista, he's just something else its like anytime he doesn't hit a home run its a huge fail now. This guys a machine why the hell couldn't we get him an amazing backup hitter :(

I can see it now he's going to get walked every single time and linds going to **** it up

wagnall
03-18-2012, 03:03 PM
Bautista gets his bomb, alls well in Mudville

es0terik
03-18-2012, 03:05 PM
Who the heck is this gomes guy he's pretty solid. Who needs mathis this guy can be our backup catcher.

Gomes should have been written in as our backup catcher a while back. I don't know why they picked Jeroloman over Gomes. He was very solid in the AFL this year, had a near .400 average (397) in 63 at-bats down there.


#BlueJays d'Arnaud, McGuire, McDade and Gil have been sent to Minor League camp.

I don't know if that means much anymore. I know a couple of guys that were "sent to the minor camps" were still playing today and I definitely know I saw d'Arnaud in the dugout.

Eagles4Lyfe
03-18-2012, 03:07 PM
Thanks eso keep on feeding me info but it doesn't seem like he'll be up with our team this year anyways. Maybe an injury call up I guess at catcher

es0terik
03-18-2012, 03:08 PM
Gomes with three doubles on the day, Bautista with another BOMB. It was a moonshot.

es0terik
03-18-2012, 03:10 PM
Thanks eso keep on feeding me info but it doesn't seem like he'll be up with our team this year anyways. Maybe an injury call up I guess at catcher

Yeah.. kinda sucks. The guy's like 24 years old, he's just being wasted away in the minors. We have too much catching depth, which when all is said and done is still a great problem to have. We still have Travis d'Arnaud, AJ Jimenez and Carlos Perez in the minors and you have to assume that if there's an injury, d'Arnaud will easily get the nod.

wagnall
03-18-2012, 03:16 PM
Diaz having another good game. Boy he's a tiny little guy. Looks like a minature McCoy.

es0terik
03-18-2012, 03:18 PM
Jays taking a dump on the Phillies today. Getting revenge for the last two losses.

Sanyo
03-18-2012, 03:23 PM
Yan Gomes will catch in Triple A this year with Travis D'Arnaud. AJ Jimenez will move to Double A. Carlos Perez in Single A -- should be able to get some good assets back for a few of them.

wagnall
03-18-2012, 03:24 PM
Any chance we see Santos, or Oliver or Cordero in the 9th.

Sanyo
03-18-2012, 03:25 PM
Santos I think

Bombtista
03-18-2012, 03:32 PM
Lots of positives coming from this game.

Bautista had 4 good at bats and hit the ball like we know he can. I don't think there is any doubt that he can keep it up. Keeping up his level of production from the past 2 years is the biggest thing for this team.

I also really like Visquel as our utility man. Seems like the guy has a plan in terms of helping guys like Hech and Escobar and probably more than a couple other guys.

Gomes had a big game. Still he needs his reps in the minors before we make any hasty decisions. Seems like a waste giving the job to Mathis when we have multiple viable options in the minors but really we will see what we can get out of him this season anyway.

Also liked what I saw from our pitching. Especially Cecil. I really believe he will hold his own this year if he can stay healthy.

Not to mention Lawrie with the best spring in baseball we have a good club this year

Bombtista
03-18-2012, 03:32 PM
Any chance we see Santos, or Oliver or Cordero in the 9th.

I believe Cordero

jackstar
03-18-2012, 03:41 PM
Who is the blue jays bullpen coach this year?

wagnall
03-18-2012, 03:59 PM
Good game, like Gomes's bat and our pitching was good again. A little shakey with Cordero, but no worries.

Bauts is a beast and Lind goes 0 for 4, once again making his pitch to be the #4 hitter a no brainer :bang: Maybe he comes alive in the 2nd 1/2 of camp.

Escobar getting that back bat. Nice to see, and I hope Vizquel makes the roster.

Cannot wait for the regular season. :)

ah nuts
03-18-2012, 04:35 PM
Seems like a waste giving the job to Mathis when we have multiple viable options in the minors but really we will see what we can get out of him this season anyway.

Mathis "D" can come in handy in late innings when the jays are leading, besides his knowledge and etc he brings.

And can you really expect any front line catcher to take backup playtime?

Bombtista
03-18-2012, 04:56 PM
Mathis "D" can come in handy in late innings when the jays are leading, besides his knowledge and etc he brings.

And can you really expect any front line catcher to take backup playtime?

I would hardly say Yan Gomes is regarded as a front line catcher, especially within this organization.

Pat Hentgen said earlier during the game that the time he spent in the pen when he was first called up was great for his career based on the the things you can learn around major league players compared to starting in the minors. Maybe it's not exactly the same with positional players but that experience could be a positive setting for lots of guys.

I would think any of these catchers could put up a better slash line than Mathis' .194/.257/.301 if given that opportunity and im sure we are going to become frustrated with Mathis lack of production during this season if he puts up those numbers.

If he can make up for that with his D/ game calling then thats fine but if we want to maximize our potential Jeff Mathis doesn't add too much.

GNick
03-18-2012, 04:57 PM
Nice game today...Jays have so many talented young ball players, reminds me of Jays during spring of '83. Young players with speed and power who bring energy and excitement to the team. Great job done by Anthopoulos, rather be this way instead of signing the mega contracts like Wells, Burnett or Ryan. Jays must have learned thru their mistakes because this year when the Paplebons, Fielders and Lewis were available Jays weren't so fierce to bite.

jmoney23
03-18-2012, 05:00 PM
Who is the blue jays bullpen coach this year?

It's Pete Walker. My family knows him and his brother, and he became their BP coach in mid-November I believe.

AA09-?
03-18-2012, 07:57 PM
Yan Gomes will catch in Triple A this year with Travis D'Arnaud. AJ Jimenez will move to Double A. Carlos Perez in Single A -- should be able to get some good assets back for a few of them.

Catcher is definitely one of biggest strengths in our system. Gotta love what AA has done.

adid727
03-18-2012, 08:50 PM
Jeff Mathis has great "D". Probably the best in the game. You guys will see what good "D" from a catcher can do in a ball game next year. If you guys remember the game last year where the jays lost to the angels in extra innings thanks to the bad call by bob davidson, mathis was the catcher for the angels. If he was not catching that game the jays would have won easily. Jason Bulger for the angels pitched 2.1 scoreless innings throwing 85 way out of the zone, and mathis was literary playing like a soccer goal keeper out there. Bulger had 4 BB in his 2.1 innings of work but somehow escaped without giving a run. That's what jeff mathis can do in a game and that's why the jays got him.

Farsight
03-18-2012, 08:54 PM
Jeff Mathis has great "D". Probably the best in the game. You guys will see what good "D" from a catcher can do in a ball game next year. If you guys remember the game last year where the jays lost to the angels in extra innings thanks to the bad call by bob davidson, mathis was the catcher for the angels. If he was not catching that game the jays would have won easily. Jason Bulger for the angels pitched 2.1 scoreless innings throwing 85 way out of the zone, and mathis was literary playing like a soccer goal keeper out there. Bulger had 4 BB in his 2.1 innings of work but somehow escaped without giving a run. That's what jeff mathis can do in a game and that's why the jays got him. Mathis is an average defensive catcher from all the metrics, studies, and reports i've seen. Mike Scioscia had a man crush on Mathis and played him over Napoli, he had to justify it some way.

ah nuts
03-18-2012, 09:03 PM
I would hardly say Yan Gomes is regarded as a front line catcher, especially within this organization.
.

I didn't say that. My point is, there is only a certain ceiling you can expect for a back up(or bench player).

So when evaluating Mathis' worth, it's wise to measure his worth relative to a back up or bench player not to a front line player.

And when you do that, his special "D" and game calling ability can be a huge value for this young pitching staff.

Again :clap: AA

ah nuts
03-18-2012, 09:09 PM
Mathis is an average defensive catcher from all the metrics, studies, and reports i've seen. Mike Scioscia had a man crush on Mathis and played him over Napoli, he had to justify it some way.

many praise Mathis "D" and haven't seen or heard anyone say elsewise.(but I'm sure there is alway one. ie. AA on the hot seat as GM)

Farsight
03-18-2012, 10:12 PM
many praise Mathis "D" and haven't seen or heard anyone say elsewise.(but I'm sure there is alway one. ie. AA on the hot seat as GM) Im a little confused if you are agreeing with me or not. However, just because people "say so" doesnt mean its so. Ricky Romero and other jays player/media say that Arencibia has been good defensively, which is not true. Same can be said about some people calling Bautista a good fielder, which is also not true. When AA signed Mathis, im sure most of us were wondering what the... I would not mind the signing if it was catching depth in the minors, but when you are statistically one of the worst offensive players, and a average defender, than it raises questionmarks

craigerlee
03-18-2012, 10:23 PM
Im a little confused if you are agreeing with me or not. However, just because people "say so" doesnt mean its so. Ricky Romero and other jays player/media say that Arencibia has been good defensively, which is not true. Same can be said about some people calling Bautista a good fielder, which is also not true. When AA signed Mathis, im sure most of us were wondering what the... I would not mind the signing if it was catching depth in the minors, but when you are statistically one of the worst offensive players, and a average defender, than it raises questionmarks

The reason Mathis was brought here has to be that AA believes that Mathis brings some intangibles such as game calling, which could very well be true.

Farsight
03-18-2012, 10:58 PM
The reason Mathis was brought here has to be that AA believes that Mathis brings some intangibles such as game calling, which could very well be true. Im not saying that AA is wrong, but to say that Mathis is a great defensive catcher is incorrect. Mathis might be a great game caller, and that might be his only intangible, as he is below average to outright putrid in almost every other aspect of his game. I dont think Mathis deserve any at bats at the major league level, as he is that detrimental ofensively.Im just shocked to think that a former great defensive player/coach could not achieve the same thing, if the goal of bringing in Mathis is to help Arencibia and his game calling.

es0terik
03-18-2012, 11:13 PM
Im not saying that AA is wrong, but to say that Mathis is a great defensive catcher is incorrect. Mathis might be a great game caller, and that might be his only intangible, as he is below average to outright putrid in almost every other aspect of his game. I dont think Mathis deserve any at bats at the major league level, as he is that detrimental ofensively.Im just shocked to think that a former great defensive player/coach could not achieve the same thing, if the goal of bringing in Mathis is to help Arencibia and his game calling.

How do you know that Mathis is a bad defender? How many games have you seen him play? Or are you going off of what a number told you? You know, there's a limit and a point where you have to say **** the metrics. It's getting tiring seeing people literally just google a number and then go around pretending to be experts about a certain player because a number told them something. You know how inaccurate defensive metrics are? The guys who MADE those metrics will tell you that. I always hear people quoting UZR as a prime defensive metric; did you know that UZR tells us that Ken Griffey Jr was a horrible defender? Do you honestly believe that? Because UZR says so, it must be true? Not only are defensive metrics inaccurate right off the bat, look at the position we are talking about. This is CATCHING. Do you even know how these numbers are calculated, and the formulas used? There are so many intangibles about catching that you won't even see in any of these metrics. Up until last year, nobody even knew about pitch framing, and suddenly we find out that the guys that do it best save their teams 2 wins a year. TWO WINS. These managers and general managers obviously see something in a player, you can't just refute that with a number you don't even know much about.

craigerlee
03-18-2012, 11:25 PM
Im not saying that AA is wrong, but to say that Mathis is a great defensive catcher is incorrect. Mathis might be a great game caller, and that might be his only intangible, as he is below average to outright putrid in almost every other aspect of his game. I dont think Mathis deserve any at bats at the major league level, as he is that detrimental ofensively.Im just shocked to think that a former great defensive player/coach could not achieve the same thing, if the goal of bringing in Mathis is to help Arencibia and his game calling.

I'm not a Mathis fan as I think his bat is awful enough that whatever he brings elsewhere doesn't make up for it, but he clearly must have some talents, as I can't imagine well respected managers and highly praised GM's could be this wrong. That's all I was saying is that we can't just say AA and Scoscia are crazy, he obviously brings something to the table that stats just don't capture, and I imagine his bat will play a bit better in the AL East as Anaheim is a tough place to hit, VW can attest to that.

Its not just to help JP its to help the staff as well, a catcher that can call a good game has to be helpful to the young pitchers.

craigerlee
03-18-2012, 11:34 PM
How do you know that Mathis is a bad defender? How many games have you seen him play? Or are you going off of what a number told you? You know, there's a limit and a point where you have to say **** the metrics. It's getting tiring seeing people literally just google a number and then go around pretending to be experts about a certain player because a number told them something. You know how inaccurate defensive metrics are? The guys who MADE those metrics will tell you that. I always hear people quoting UZR as a prime defensive metric; did you know that UZR tells us that Ken Griffey Jr was a horrible defender? Do you honestly believe that? Because UZR says so, it must be true? Not only are defensive metrics inaccurate right off the bat, look at the position we are talking about. This is CATCHING. Do you even know how these numbers are calculated, and the formulas used? There are so many intangibles about catching that you won't even see in any of these metrics. Up until last year, nobody even knew about pitch framing, and suddenly we find out that the guys that do it best save their teams 2 wins a year. TWO WINS. These managers and general managers obviously see something in a player, you can't just refute that with a number you don't even know much about.


Well Griffey was a bad defender from his Cincinnati days until retirement as he was injured, but I'm pretty sure UZR tells us he was good when he was in Seattle.

As for the catching metrics they look at passed balls/wild pitches, caught stealing and errors and quantitate them into runs saved, its pretty easy to understand. So they do measure defensive ratings as best they can, but absolutely there's a lot of intangibles it doesn't take into account.

Farsight
03-19-2012, 12:22 AM
How do you know that Mathis is a bad defender? How many games have you seen him play? Or are you going off of what a number told you? You know, there's a limit and a point where you have to say **** the metrics. It's getting tiring seeing people literally just google a number and then go around pretending to be experts about a certain player because a number told them something. You know how inaccurate defensive metrics are? The guys who MADE those metrics will tell you that. I always hear people quoting UZR as a prime defensive metric; did you know that UZR tells us that Ken Griffey Jr was a horrible defender? Do you honestly believe that? Because UZR says so, it must be true? Not only are defensive metrics inaccurate right off the bat, look at the position we are talking about. This is CATCHING. Do you even know how these numbers are calculated, and the formulas used? There are so many intangibles about catching that you won't even see in any of these metrics. Up until last year, nobody even knew about pitch framing, and suddenly we find out that the guys that do it best save their teams 2 wins a year. TWO WINS. These managers and general managers obviously see something in a player, you can't just refute that with a number you don't even know much about.


Im not just looking at UZR, there are many reports published on how good a catcher is at different aspects. (Even though most would admit that UZR is the best defensive metric in the game, however it does have many more limitations when it comes to 1B, and Catcher. It still, however, give you a general idea of how good a player is defensively, less so as a catcher/1b) If i was just looking at UZR, i would of said "oh, JPA is not that bad defensively", when in actuality, many of the reports you are talking about, state that he is one of the worst catchers in the game. There was also a recent study done (which i cant find at the moment, but when i do i will edit my post), that showed Molina as one of the worst catchers at protecting the plate and keeping the ball infront of him, so realistically that 2 run saved advantage would be reduced by other aspects of his play.

So im not sure what your angry about. I never claimed im an expert, but Mathis is an average to above average defensive catcher. Can he be possibly one of the best game callers? yes, does that mean that other aspects of his defensive game are at that level? not always. Maybe craigerlee is correct when saying that he brings other intangibles, and that the pitchers would like a catcher who is a supposed game caller, and im sure that is what AA would say as well. Im sure as the year goes on, we will see how he handles the pitching staff in comparison with JPA, and get an idea of how good his game calling is.

And just on another note, yes i know most sabermetric stats and how they are calculated and what they represent. Should i probably have explained myself better and expanded when i posted? yes, i should have... but for you to make personal attacks, really, come on. During my 6 year tenure on PSD (4 years posting) I never made anything personal, nor have i ever attacked a poster personally, so please show respect and try not to get angry at someone

Also on a different note, just because AA goes out and signs someone, doesnt mean that a person has to agree with that signing... For example, i fully hate the Mathis signing, as i think we probably could of got an all around better player than him who brings the same/better intangibles, that is not as big of a liability offensivel.I like AA as much as the next person, but to just nod my head and agree with everything he does would make me a "yes man" essentially.

Sanyo
03-19-2012, 12:42 AM
One guy who's definitely trying to get a backup job is Jonathan Diaz -- leads the Jays in runs scored with 7 so far. He has average speed and is decent with the glove but the man can get on base! -- has a very good bb/so ratio! This seems like a great guy who can play across the diamond in the infield. Not sure, maybe if not this year definitely a shot for next year since Vizquel may get the upper hand purely on defense at this point...but Diaz has definitely impressed so far...

JermanJaysFan
03-19-2012, 02:13 AM
One guy who's definitely trying to get a backup job is Jonathan Diaz -- leads the Jays in runs scored with 7 so far. He has average speed and is decent with the glove but the man can get on base! -- has a very good bb/so ratio! This seems like a great guy who can play across the diamond in the infield. Not sure, maybe if not this year definitely a shot for next year since Vizquel may get the upper hand purely on defense at this point...but Diaz has definitely impressed so far...
I'm sure the Jays brass don't give two ***** about how many runs any of their players score in ST (or at any point during the season, I'd hope).

And while he has done alright for himself in his 23ABs so far, I find it pretty unlikely that the Jays would value whatever he might do in the ~40 ABs he gets this spring, no matter how good, over his fairly putrid 1702 minor league ABs. I like his OBP but that is the extent of it.

Bombtista
03-19-2012, 02:45 AM
I wouldnt say his minor league career has been putrid, in fact he has been fairly consistent. OBP is in my mind the most important stat to look at and the guy has done that at an above average level since he was drafted.

Im obviously not arguing that he should replace any of our starters but he has the makings of a good bench player. From what we have seen he is relatively versatile and I think could do a better job than Mike McCoy.

2009mvp
03-19-2012, 10:10 AM
^^Check McCoy's minor league OBP's and see if you still have the same opinion.

JermanJaysFan
03-19-2012, 10:24 AM
I wouldnt say his minor league career has been putrid, in fact he has been fairly consistent. OBP is in my mind the most important stat to look at and the guy has done that at an above average level since he was drafted.

Im obviously not arguing that he should replace any of our starters but he has the makings of a good bench player. From what we have seen he is relatively versatile and I think could do a better job than Mike McCoy.
I agree, OBP is very important, and he is solid in that regard. But aside from that, it doesn't seem like he has a single offensive tool worth talking about. He'll take a walk, but he isn't even really a singles hitter, let alone an XBH guy.

If this kid steps to the dish in a big league game, he'll just get challenged by the pitchers who know he can't hit a lick. He'll either stand there being baffled or just ground out to short all day.


^^Check McCoy's minor league OBP's and see if you still have the same opinion.
Yeah- McCoy is better across the board in the triple slash categories than this kid, and we've all seen what that translates to at the big league level.

Twitchy
03-19-2012, 11:03 AM
Diaz has great plate discipline for sure. But look at his power numbers - they're non-existent. There's a reason he's a career 228 hitter. He just doesn't have any power. Guys in the majors would have no problem busting him inside pitch after pitch because he wouldn't be able to hurt them.

At the end of the day, his best case scenario is John McDonald. All the plate discipline in the world doesn't mean a thing if you can't hit the ball and drive it.

There's a reason he's 26 and has a career 641 OPS in AAA and no at bats in the majors. He's a career backup.

OBP is important in the minors, but so is the ability to hit for average (contact is an essential skill for minor leaguers) and so is power. You generally need at least two out of three (and preferably one of those being contact) in order to have success in the majors.

OBP is important for production and run scoring, but it wouldn't be the first thing I look at in the minors.

Bombtista
03-19-2012, 02:16 PM
^^Check McCoy's minor league OBP's and see if you still have the same opinion.

McCoy has a .375 minor league OBP compared to Diaz' .363. Pretty similar players. I guess Vegas has boosted that number for both guys but McCoy just hasn't showcased that ability very well at all in the Majors.

What I liked most about Diaz in ST good baseball sense and ability to get on base which are two big tools. Not to mention he is 26 so its not like we would be stunting his development or anything. Having such a deep farm and potentially being on the cusp of contention I was mostly looking for minor league options that could help add a couple more wins to our club


I agree, OBP is very important, and he is solid in that regard. But aside from that, it doesn't seem like he has a single offensive tool worth talking about. He'll take a walk, but he isn't even really a singles hitter, let alone an XBH guy.

If this kid steps to the dish in a big league game, he'll just get challenged by the pitchers who know he can't hit a lick. He'll either stand there being baffled or just ground out to short all day.



Having absolutely no power was another obvious red flag and im sure big league pitchers would take advantage of that better that what he sees in Vegas.

JermanJaysFan
03-19-2012, 02:27 PM
McCoy has a .375 minor league OBP compared to Diaz' .363. Pretty similar players. I guess Vegas has boosted that number for both guys but McCoy just hasn't showcased that ability very well at all in the Majors.

What I liked most about Diaz in ST good baseball sense and ability to get on base which are two big tools. Not to mention he is 26 so its not like we would be stunting his development or anything. Having such a deep farm and potentially being on the cusp of contention I was mostly looking for minor league options that could help add a couple more wins to our club

Having absolutely no power was another obvious red flag and im sure big league pitchers would take advantage of that better that what he sees in Vegas.
The good OBPs are where the similarities start and end in terms of their hitting. Mike McCoy more power and better contact than Diaz in the minors, and also has much better speed on the basepaths.

It's great that Diaz can draw a walk, but the guy really cannot swing the bat. Even if the guy is an excellent defender, it would take a miracle for him to be anything much more than replacement level in the bigs. As far as I can tell, he wouldn't even really be useful as a pinch runner (or at least- not as useful as McCoy).

edit- posted this before you added in the reply to my post you quoted

JermanJaysFan
03-19-2012, 02:34 PM
Not sure if this has been posted, but I like the sounds of having this guy on our bench:


Can we get Omar Vizquel on every Toronto Blue Jays broadcast this season? The veteran infielder is in camp as a possible utility player/unofficial coach/resource for the Blue Jays’ young Latin infielders. He’s also refreshingly frank, eschewing the blarney so many others sow when talking on TV.

Great example during Sunday’s Blue Jays-Phillies game when the 44-year-old Vizquel was a guest with Sportsnet’s Buck Martinez and Pat Tabler during the top of the sixth inning. In a wide-ranging discussion, Tabler asked Vizquel about the Blue Jays’ talented shortstop, Yunel Escobar. Most baseball types would have rhapsodized about Escobar’s talents as if he were the next Ozzie Smith.

Vizquel cut to the chase. “He has to improve the mental game a bit,” Vizquel said. “The shortstop position, you have to dominate the game in so many different aspects. He has to communicate, has to be a presence out there for the pitchers. I’m going to try to keep him more in the game. He loses his head out there when he’s 0 for 3, 0 for 4. He’s thinking about his [at-bats] and that’s something we cannot do when we play the infield.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/bruce-dowbiggin/jays-vizquel-wields-unusual-candour/article2373226/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Baseball&utm_content=2373226

es0terik
03-19-2012, 03:36 PM
Im not just looking at UZR, there are many reports published on how good a catcher is at different aspects. (Even though most would admit that UZR is the best defensive metric in the game, however it does have many more limitations when it comes to 1B, and Catcher. It still, however, give you a general idea of how good a player is defensively, less so as a catcher/1b) If i was just looking at UZR, i would of said "oh, JPA is not that bad defensively", when in actuality, many of the reports you are talking about, state that he is one of the worst catchers in the game. There was also a recent study done (which i cant find at the moment, but when i do i will edit my post), that showed Molina as one of the worst catchers at protecting the plate and keeping the ball infront of him, so realistically that 2 run saved advantage would be reduced by other aspects of his play.

So im not sure what your angry about. I never claimed im an expert, but Mathis is an average to above average defensive catcher. Can he be possibly one of the best game callers? yes, does that mean that other aspects of his defensive game are at that level? not always. Maybe craigerlee is correct when saying that he brings other intangibles, and that the pitchers would like a catcher who is a supposed game caller, and im sure that is what AA would say as well. Im sure as the year goes on, we will see how he handles the pitching staff in comparison with JPA, and get an idea of how good his game calling is.

And just on another note, yes i know most sabermetric stats and how they are calculated and what they represent. Should i probably have explained myself better and expanded when i posted? yes, i should have... but for you to make personal attacks, really, come on. During my 6 year tenure on PSD (4 years posting) I never made anything personal, nor have i ever attacked a poster personally, so please show respect and try not to get angry at someone

Also on a different note, just because AA goes out and signs someone, doesnt mean that a person has to agree with that signing... For example, i fully hate the Mathis signing, as i think we probably could of got an all around better player than him who brings the same/better intangibles, that is not as big of a liability offensivel.I like AA as much as the next person, but to just nod my head and agree with everything he does would make me a "yes man" essentially.
I'm not angry or trying to make it personal, my point is just that the whole idea of trying to use advanced stats as the be-all-end-all of every discussion on these boards has gotten old. Maybe that's not what you yourself were doing, my point wasn't 100% directed at you anyways. I was speaking in a somewhat general sense and I was trying to point out the same thing that you just admitted to and the same thing that craigerlee posted above: there are an infinite amount of intangibles in this game. So many of which are still not calculated in statistics, and even more of which probably never will be. There will never be an accurate stat to rate game calling. There will never be a stat to tell us how psychologically intelligent a player is. Even stats like UZR, which people consider the 'best defensive metric' are still hugely flawed. I've actually heard that UZR hurts players with great range, is that true? I'm not certain.

I'm not going to act like a guru on advanced stats because I'm not, I don't know a lot about them. What I do know is that this game is still baseball and stats and projections will take you only a fraction of the way when making judgement. If stats gave us the whole story it would be pretty damn easy to put together a good baseball team. But every year you will have the Hanley Ramirez's and Jayson Werth's who will randomly decline and every now and again you'll have the Ellsbury, Kemp's and Bautista's who will come out of nowhere. There's no statistic that tells us where a player's head is at, there is no statistic that can flat out tell us if a player has or doesn't have problems in his mechanics. These are all huge intangibles and at a certain point you have to just let it go and not try to dissect every single move your team makes before you even know the result of it. Maybe next offseason if Mathis was still beneath the Mendoza Line we could have this discussion, but right now? Seriously? There's this much of a debate over whether or not the backup catcher that AA signed for 1.5M is going to be a boom or a bust? I'm not saying we have to agree with every move AA makes, that would be ignorant. I admit I too feel like there were better options on the market, Kelly Shoppach is a great example of one. But I'm not going to sit here and argue with people for days that I know for a fact that Shoppach is going to be more valuable to his team than Mathis will be to his in this upcoming season. I don't know that. And there is literally and absolutely no merit in doing that. So I'd like to just say one last time that I'm not angry or upset about these things, I just find it surprising that so many people on these boards spend so much time and go so far into a debate over which player is 'better' JUST so that a year from now they can MAYBE get a chance to say 'I told you so', probably when nobody will actually care about it anymore.

None of us know more than these scouts, coaches and GMs. Who the heck are we to say whether a player is going to be good or not? If you want to show your disapproval about a move or a trade or an acquisition, why don't you at least give it a season and actually SEE what happens. I have no problem complaining about the Frank Francisco and Jon Rauch acquisitions but that is because I know now that they were bad moves. But how much can I complain about a low cost bench acquisition (that didn't even cost us anything) before I even see the end result. I feel like I've written enough on this, so that's all I'm going to say on this topic. I just hope you know that I'm not upset at you and it was never my intention to make it personal. Sorry if I came off that way.

wagnall
03-19-2012, 03:54 PM
As much as I like what Diaz is doing, its really just good ST talk. Hes' done well but I surly won't keep him over Vizquel. Omar has more to offer the team in this 1 year in both expierence and his abilitiy to help out with certain players while still being a great D guy who can play the left side.

es0terik
03-19-2012, 03:56 PM
Anybody hear what happened to Miguel Cabrera in the Tigers/Phillies game?


CLEARWATER, Fla. -- Just when Miguel Cabrera's return to third base seemed to be going swimmingly, the reigning American League batting champion was injured by a Hunter Pence hard-hopper that hit him in the face and knocked him out of Monday's Grapefruit League game against the Phillies. The Tigers led at the time, 1-0, with one out in the first inning.

A towel covered the bloodied right side of his face as Cabrera left the game. He received stitches at Bright House Field before undergoing precautionary X-rays, according to the Tigers.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120319&content_id=27410802&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Gnarly..

DeRozan10
03-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Anybody hear what happened to Miguel Cabrera in the Tigers/Phillies game?



Gnarly..


Man really hope he is okay

town123
03-19-2012, 05:37 PM
Anybody hear what happened to Miguel Cabrera in the Tigers/Phillies game?



Gnarly..

That'll teach the Tigers for moving him over to 3B instead of to Toronto.

JermanJaysFan
03-19-2012, 06:06 PM
That'll teach the Tigers for moving him over to 3B instead of to Toronto.
Can you imagine if the Tigers had done that? Signed Fielder, then trade Cabrera to us for prospects :laugh2:. Everyone would be chewing their heads off.

treeleaf
03-19-2012, 07:15 PM
As much as I like what Diaz is doing, its really just good ST talk. Hes' done well but I surly won't keep him over Vizquel. Omar has more to offer the team in this 1 year in both expierence and his abilitiy to help out with certain players while still being a great D guy who can play the left side.

I also think that omar will out produce a guy like diaz. He probably knows a shitload about oposing pitchers

bomber0104
03-20-2012, 12:19 AM
But so far at least, people who know him think what they're seeing is more than an act.

It starts with the newfound work ethic, a regimen that didn't just begin this spring. Ramirez went home to the Dominican Republic, after the worst year of his career, and sought out a man he says has been "a big inspiration to me," Toronto's Jose Bautista, and let Bautista push him to places he'd never been before.

"I never worked that much," Ramirez said. "But I knew that I needed it because I didn't play the whole season. The other years, I always played over 150 games, so I just went back, got some rest and started [working out] in January. But after what happened last year, I knew I needed to work harder to get back soon on the field."

ESPN Article

Nice to see all the respect people have for Jose. It could help us attract some latin talent in the future

es0terik
03-20-2012, 01:40 AM
I wish it had attracted the man that that article is about.

the_jon
03-20-2012, 08:24 AM
I wish it had attracted the man that that article is about.
I don't. Where would he even play for us?

JermanJaysFan
03-20-2012, 09:57 AM
I don't. Where would he even play for us?
Second or CF would be good options. But I doubt Hanley would have been a big fan of that.

2009mvp
03-20-2012, 10:54 AM
:laugh2: Am I the only one who totally thought that was about Manny? Everything in that little blurb would apply to him too, no?

the_jon
03-20-2012, 11:01 AM
:laugh2: Am I the only one who totally thought that was about Manny? Everything in that little blurb would apply to him too, no?
Nope I did too :laugh2:

heusy_79
03-20-2012, 11:56 AM
:laugh2: Am I the only one who totally thought that was about Manny? Everything in that little blurb would apply to him too, no?

Glad I wasn't the only one, I guess Manny is still the more popular Ramirez.

wagnall
03-20-2012, 12:04 PM
:laugh2: Am I the only one who totally thought that was about Manny? Everything in that little blurb would apply to him too, no?


:laugh2:
I too thought it was Manny. I was wondering why Bauts would be hanging around with Manny.

wagnall
03-20-2012, 12:10 PM
Second or CF would be good options. But I doubt Hanley would have been a big fan of that.



Ya, I think its SS or nothing. Thats why he's still pissed because he's not playing SS. Seems people here getting a little fed up with his attitude.
I agree I think anywhere but SS he won't come. :)

lexecutioner
03-20-2012, 12:49 PM
:laugh2: Am I the only one who totally thought that was about Manny? Everything in that little blurb would apply to him too, no?

weird but for me I thought it was Aramis Ramirez lol. I think he needs more help than Hanley:facepalm:

wagnall
03-20-2012, 03:16 PM
weird but for me I thought it was Aramis Ramirez lol. I think he needs more help than Hanley:facepalm:


Sorry but, but that would have really been a long shot. :) They should put a rule in as to how players named Ramirez can play in the league.. :rolleyes:

wagnall
03-20-2012, 04:12 PM
Sure glad to be coming back to TO in couple weeks, it is dead down here. Marlins Spring Training Thread has a whole 7 posts. Amazing staduim, but want to get back to Rogers and my comfy seats.. :up:

Toxeryll
03-20-2012, 05:46 PM
:laugh2: Am I the only one who totally thought that was about Manny? Everything in that little blurb would apply to him too, no?

:laugh2: i thought it was manny too

bomber0104
03-20-2012, 07:34 PM
Bard loads the bases and Snider doubles down the 3rd base line .. nice solid contact the other way

bomber0104
03-20-2012, 07:39 PM
i dunno why they are trying Bard in the rotation.. the guy is all straight fastballs

jon32
03-20-2012, 07:40 PM
Anybody with MLB.tv find theres a difference in video qualitly between PS3 and Computer ? Just wondering cuz this is the first time I bought it and I watched some of last years games on the PS3 and the quality was **** but on my laptop its unreal .

Sanyo
03-20-2012, 07:50 PM
Why did Laffey get the start over Drabek? -- rather see Drabek get 4 innings to start...

bartron_44
03-20-2012, 07:53 PM
It worked out having him where he is in hindsight, but is anyone else frustrated that Thames is hitting cleanup today over Snider? Snider is mashing the ball so far in spring training, yet he get relegated to the 7 slot..

not that I dislike Thames, but it looks like Thames still has the edge over snider in Farrells mind to me...

jon32
03-20-2012, 08:04 PM
^^ Im hoping that they are doing this on purpose to make Snider go balls out to prove hes better. And when he himself sees what hes capable of doing he stays with the team and mashes with Joey. But thats just me hopin haha

jackstar
03-20-2012, 08:07 PM
^^ Im hoping that they are doing this on purpose to make Snider go balls out to prove hes better. And when he himself sees what hes capable of doing he stays with the team and mashes with Joey. But thats just me hopin haha

This is also my exact hope.

Sanyo
03-20-2012, 08:17 PM
Travis Snider is the Rodney Dangerfield of baseball -- no matter how good, just gets no respect...

jaysalltheway89
03-20-2012, 08:25 PM
Is there a stream for the game?

es0terik
03-20-2012, 08:38 PM
Sorry guys, was busy. I'm here now, if anyone wants a stream, pm me.

es0terik
03-20-2012, 08:38 PM
Quality ain't great at all but it isn't slow or laggy and the audio quality is clean.

es0terik
03-20-2012, 08:41 PM
I swear when I watch this stream it looks exactly as if the Jays are playing the Sox at Fenway.

jon32
03-20-2012, 08:41 PM
Travis Snider is the Rodney Dangerfield of baseball -- no matter how good, just gets no respect...

hahaha so true

Toxeryll
03-20-2012, 08:41 PM
any stream that isnt streamtorrent??

Krylian
03-20-2012, 08:48 PM
Snider will be moved and will go on to be a stud elsewhere and win an MVP award.

es0terik
03-20-2012, 08:49 PM
Cooper drives in Thames from second base.

es0terik
03-20-2012, 08:50 PM
Snider's facial hair doesn't look as bad when his hair is short. He just looks like a perverted frenchman now, as opposed to an unemployed pedofile when he has long hair.

es0terik
03-20-2012, 08:54 PM
Mathis drives in Rasmus from second.

Kak
03-20-2012, 08:57 PM
Snider will be moved and will go on to be a stud elsewhere and win an MVP award.

Snider has an ugly *** swing...so stiff

DeRozan10
03-20-2012, 09:22 PM
Snider has an ugly *** swing...so stiff

I agree. I've watched him look so ugly hacking at breaking balls too many times

Sanyo
03-20-2012, 09:46 PM
Anyway to convert Snider or Thames to 2nd base and get rid of Kelly Johnson? -- he's been horrible..
...

JMac4PM
03-20-2012, 10:17 PM
I'd convert Snider to a CFer and get rid of Rasmus before I got rid of Johnson.

JermanJaysFan
03-20-2012, 10:31 PM
Anyway to convert Snider or Thames to 2nd base and get rid of Kelly Johnson? -- he's been horrible..
...
They are both lefthanded.

EDIT- :facepalm: Thames throws right. But I hate his glove in left, it would be uglier at second.

Sanyo
03-20-2012, 10:35 PM
They are both lefthanded.

EDIT- :facepalm: Thames throws right. But I hate his glove in left, it would be uglier at second.

i was kinda half joking tho lol i know it would be hard to get them to be converted...but the best three players at the plate this spring has been snider/thames and edwin. it will suck to send either snider/thames down since both have batted well in the spring...

JermanJaysFan
03-20-2012, 10:35 PM
I'd convert Snider to a CFer and get rid of Rasmus before I got rid of Johnson.
A year ago, the guy was coming off a season where he posted the best OPS of any CFer and was third to only Josh Hamilton and CarGo in wOBA and wRC+ at age 23.

Go manage the Yankees, I'm begging ya.

JermanJaysFan
03-20-2012, 10:36 PM
i was kinda half joking tho lol i know it would be hard to get them to be converted...but the best three players at the plate this spring has been snider/thames and edwin. it will suck to send either snider/thames down since both have batted well in the spring...
Haha, sorry I didn't pick up on it, haha. Sometimes it's hard to tell, the way things go in this forum...

Jays52
03-20-2012, 11:05 PM
If AA is looking to trade Snider as some have speculated, I'd be looking at San Diego as a dance partner with Quentin going down. AA could try to raid the cupboard.

henderson56
03-20-2012, 11:43 PM
i was kinda half joking tho lol i know it would be hard to get them to be converted...but the best three players at the plate this spring has been snider/thames and edwin. it will suck to send either snider/thames down since both have batted well in the spring...

Brett Lawire has been undoubtably the best player at the plate this spring.

wagnall
03-21-2012, 01:06 AM
Don't jump on me about this just asking a question regarding Thames's

defence. Prior to the season a report on Thames said he realized his weekness

was at Def. which he worked on all winter. I have not heard 1 report out of

TC that he has any defensive problems rather the opposite, So my question is

that everyone here critizes his D but has any of us actually seen a game this

year with Thames in LF., or are we all just remembering his problems from last

year, which would be a unfair to him. :confused:

I'm not favouring him over Snider, but are we sure that

Thames's D is really that bad. If someone has seen him play then please

correct me. :)

Because, I cannot say with certainty whether his D is like last year or whether he's fixed that problem and it is no longer that big an issue.

Can anyone else say yes or no if we haven't even seen him play this TC. :):)

Toxeryll
03-21-2012, 01:13 AM
Don't jump on me about this just asking a question regarding Thames's

defence. Prior to the season a report on Thames said he realized his weekness

was at Def. which he worked on all winter. I have not heard 1 report out of

TC that he has any defensive problems rather the opposite, So my question is

that everyone here critizes his D but has any of us actually seen a game this

year with Thames in LF., or are we all just remembering his problems from last

year, which would be a unfair to him. :confused:

I'm not favouring him over Snider, but are we sure that

Thames's D is really that bad. If someone has seen him play then please

correct me. :)

Because I can't say for certainty that his D has not gotten much better. :):)

yes, its really that bad, notably his range. i think it was 2 games ago, there was a high popup to left field and he missed it by a mile.. if he becomes at least average in defense, im ok if he gets the nod in LF but so far, i have not seen the improvement theyre talking about

wagnall
03-21-2012, 01:25 AM
^ Thanks Tox for the update, I've been so busy getting ready to finally move back to TO in time for the home openner that all I"ve seen are the recaps on the computer. Have not seen him on the tube yet.

Also sorry I was editing my post while you answered it, so it is just a little different, but nothing big! :o

2009mvp
03-21-2012, 01:27 AM
He'd be on some magical **** to show up considerably better than last season. I mean, you'd expect some improvement just based on getting some big league experience given that he's a pretty athletic dude, but I find it hard to believe the issues with getting good reads/jumps on balls will all of a sudden be solved overnight. I don't think he's a total lost cause out there, but I also can't imagine him ever being more than an average-ish left fielder, which means he has to hit a ton to remain a starter.

The_Jet11
03-21-2012, 01:28 AM
Thames' bat speed gives off a Gary Sheffield vibe for me, he's got really quick hands, and I feel like he could be a heck of a DH for us. Give him a few reps in LF, but let him DH. He's super strong too, so I would imagine that his short stroke would eventually put up some pretty respectable power numbers for a DH.

All told, we have a number of "good problems" to sort out as to who plays where

es0terik
03-21-2012, 02:10 AM
I'm not surprised Johnson isn't doing great, did anyone see him today? His stance is so fricken awkward... was it always like that? His hands were so high it feels like they're up near the umpire's head.

1hardcore
03-21-2012, 02:23 AM
David cooper seems to be doing well. If that guy can go in the bigs and put up mark grace like numbers like he did in AAA then i'm all for it and then Lind can be traded :)

JMac4PM
03-21-2012, 07:52 AM
Cooper will likely be the one traded if he does find success... I got no problem with that as long as we get a half decent asset back in return. I just got a feeling that Cooper will find a spot somewhere I just hope we get rewarded for developing him.

JMac4PM
03-21-2012, 07:58 AM
A year ago, the guy was coming off a season where he posted the best OPS of any CFer and was third to only Josh Hamilton and CarGo in wOBA and wRC+ at age 23.

Go manage the Yankees, I'm begging ya.

Dont need the insult at the end just because I dont agree with you, tough guy.

I dont care what he did for the Cardinals... I care about what hes gonna do for the Blue Jays. I just dont think he has the mental make up to be successful long term. Once he goes in a tail spin (like he did last year) its gonna be a prolonged struggle and its going to get worst as it goes. If he can pull out of it he will have a long stretch where he rakes but once he starts struggling again everything will fall apart.

I say he is kinda like Dustin Penner, when he is feeling good he can dominate for an entire season. Once he starts struggling he can flunk out for 1-2 years.

AA09-?
03-21-2012, 10:00 AM
Thames' bat speed gives off a Gary Sheffield vibe for me, he's got really quick hands, and I feel like he could be a heck of a DH for us. Give him a few reps in LF, but let him DH. He's super strong too, so I would imagine that his short stroke would eventually put up some pretty respectable power numbers for a DH.

All told, we have a number of "good problems" to sort out as to who plays where

I see what you're saying but he really needs to get on base at a much higher clip to even be a fraction of what Sheff was.

JaysFan87
03-21-2012, 11:42 AM
anyway to convert snider or thames to 2nd base and get rid of kelly johnson? -- he's been horrible..
...


i'd convert snider to a cfer and get rid of rasmus before i got rid of johnson.

march 21!!!

JaysFan87
03-21-2012, 11:44 AM
i was kinda half joking tho lol i know it would be hard to get them to be converted...but the best three players at the plate this spring has been snider/thames and edwin. it will suck to send either snider/thames down since both have batted well in the spring...

it would be impossible for Snider to play second.

Farsight
03-21-2012, 12:58 PM
If Lind struggles, you will probably see Encarnacion at 1b, Thames DH, and Snider LF

2009mvp
03-21-2012, 01:19 PM
Wait it's still an 'if' Lind struggles? So weird that KJ/Rasmus get shredded but Lind gets a pass. Guess it's just the RBIeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz.

Dol-Fan
03-21-2012, 01:35 PM
He'd be on some magical **** to show up considerably better than last season. I mean, you'd expect some improvement just based on getting some big league experience given that he's a pretty athletic dude, but I find it hard to believe the issues with getting good reads/jumps on balls will all of a sudden be solved overnight. I don't think he's a total lost cause out there, but I also can't imagine him ever being more than an average-ish left fielder, which means he has to hit a ton to remain a starter.

It's funny, Thames talks about how he needed to improve his D and went out and did it, but the only thing he talks about is having improved his arm. That wasn't the main problem at all...improving his arm won't help him get to more balls.

wagnall
03-21-2012, 02:46 PM
Lets see, so far today

Vizquel 2 for 3, he keeps hitting really wants that spot

Jpa another bomb [4]

Lind the usual 0'fer

Gomes playing 3rd, and gets another hit. This guy also plays 1st.

And Drabek, not a great 3 innings, but at least he's being given a chance.

See how rest of game goes.

Farsight
03-21-2012, 03:30 PM
Wait it's still an 'if' Lind struggles? So weird that KJ/Rasmus get shredded but Lind gets a pass. Guess it's just the RBIeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz. Woah, im one of the posters that hates Lind, and have been arguing for a long time he should be gone. When i stated "if" i was being optimistic... It probably would of been better if i said "if and when Lind falters, than Encarnacion should be moved to first"If he cant be a reasonable first basemen who can be above average, than i'd rather have him gone. Moreover, I've stated repeatedly how i liked the acquisition of Rasmus and Kelly, and both can get top 7 at their position. Also you should know that im more of a sabr person, so im not sure why you took that shot at me

Sanyo
03-21-2012, 04:37 PM
The sad thing is the guys who are doing well are the guys who are not likely to make the 25 man roster and near the top in batting -- Jonathan Diaz, Brian Bocock, Yan Gomes, AJ Jimenez. Lawrie was a monster before he got injured.

Then near the bottom are the guys who are likely making the roster: Jeff Mathis, Kelly Johnson, Adam Lind, Ben Francisco, Colby Rasmus

I dont know -- its spring training but kinda screwed up.

And then one of Snider or Thames will also be sent to Triple A. ahhhh!

jamjar
03-21-2012, 06:21 PM
i wish AA would just pull off a trade or two so we can get all this **** straightened out.

LechWalesa
03-21-2012, 08:29 PM
I'm starting to think that AA is really butchering this left field thing in the way he has handled it. I think it is fine if he decides he would prefer Thames... but I do think that if he does, the competition should not have been framed as an open one, as it has been. I say this because Snider has outclassed Thames in almost every statistical category aside from SO and AVG this ST. I really don't know what else AA expects from the guy.

craigerlee
03-21-2012, 09:03 PM
Woah, im one of the posters that hates Lind, and have been arguing for a long time he should be gone. When i stated "if" i was being optimistic... It probably would of been better if i said "if and when Lind falters, than Encarnacion should be moved to first"If he cant be a reasonable first basemen who can be above average, than i'd rather have him gone. Moreover, I've stated repeatedly how i liked the acquisition of Rasmus and Kelly, and both can get top 7 at their position. Also you should know that im more of a sabr person, so im not sure why you took that shot at me

Didn't seem like he was taking a shot at you, seemed like he was taking a shot at the people who have been shredding Rasmus and KJ. I can't imagine he believes its set in stone that Lind will fail again.

2009mvp
03-21-2012, 11:36 PM
Didn't seem like he was taking a shot at you,

Correct.


seemed like he was taking a shot at the people who have been shredding Rasmus and KJ.

Yup. Looking at you Jeff Blair and your callers.


I can't imagine he believes its set in stone that Lind will fail again.

Define 'fail.' I think he'll be better than he has been the past two years (granted it'd be tough to be worse), but any better than say .270/.330/.480? Doubt it.

craigerlee
03-21-2012, 11:59 PM
Correct.



Yup. Looking at you Jeff Blair and your callers.



Define 'fail.' I think he'll be better than he has been the past two years (granted it'd be tough to be worse), but any better than say .270/.330/.480? Doubt it.

Ya but I'll take that if the HR's are there, especially at 5M a year. You can definitely win with that type of production at 1B, see the Rangers and Rays. Somehow he took a decent amount of walks in 2009 and made good contact, so if he could ever get to that level again where he's got a 8.9% walk rate and 16.8% K rate and keeps the power than I definitely think he's gonna outperform that .270/.330/.480 line. Seems like the last 2 years he's been swinging at a lot more pitches out of the strike zone. I'm definitely highly doubtful he ever returns to that type of level, but I don't think its set in stone that he's gonna be a failure this year. Trying to be optimistic here.

2009mvp
03-22-2012, 12:37 AM
Very optimistic lol. Bringing up the Rays ignores their phenomenal run prevention and the Rangers the fact that they get above average offensive production from virtually everywhere else on the diamond, which is why both can succeed despite their lack of production from that position. I'm trying to pull back on the 'Lind's a total bum' stuff too, but yeah, I can't say I ever see him eclipsing a low .800 OPS again. 2009 was as simple as a career year.

es0terik
03-22-2012, 01:37 PM
Define 'fail.' I think he'll be better than he has been the past two years (granted it'd be tough to be worse), but any better than say .270/.330/.480? Doubt it.

I would take that every single day of the week with Lind.

es0terik
03-22-2012, 01:38 PM
Commentators say that Morrow had a great first inning, battling command issues in second inning. Still got out of the second with a man left on base with 'no runs, no hits', so I'd assume the baserunner got on with a walk.

es0terik
03-22-2012, 01:44 PM
Cliff Lee is tearing up the Jays and taking a crap on their remains... five strikeouts in two innings...

Bombtista
03-22-2012, 01:51 PM
Morrow 3 IP no hits but also no strikeouts. He did say he was working on pitching to contact better.

bartron_44
03-22-2012, 01:51 PM
3 shutout frames for Morrow so far...4 ground balls, 3 pop ups and only 2 fly balls. He does have 2 walks, but pretty solid so far..I wonder what his velocity is like?

Eagles4Lyfe
03-22-2012, 01:59 PM
Morrow always does good in spring I wouldnt take this serious. He was such a beast last spring and everyone thought he was going to be our best SP last year and he busted big time to peoples expectations.

the_jon
03-22-2012, 02:16 PM
Morrow always does good in spring I wouldnt take this serious. He was such a beast last spring and everyone thought he was going to be our best SP last year and he busted big time to peoples expectations.
According to peripherals, he was our best pitcher...If you believe that stuff.

bartron_44
03-22-2012, 02:18 PM
Morrow always does good in spring I wouldnt take this serious. He was such a beast last spring and everyone thought he was going to be our best SP last year and he busted big time to peoples expectations.

He also strained his forearm just before the season started and missed the first few weeks of the season...

Not sure what people expect from him, the only thing I expected from him last year was a tonne of K's...which he had. I did think he would post an ERA closer to 4 then 5 though.

I still think his best days are ahead of him. I see him with an ERA around 4 and over 200 K's in 2012. He pitched well enough to win around 16 games last year, but only was rewarded with 11 W's. I think he could pitch well enough to win 18-20 times this year if he can make 32+ starts...which should allow him to get to 15 wins with our revamped bullpen.

wagnall
03-22-2012, 02:59 PM
Bautista 2 for 3 another good day.

HOLD THE PRESSES.........Lind gets a hit and drives in Bautista.

KJ having tough time on the bases...steals 1 yay, gets caught once, and gets picked off at 1st by Lee. But he did get 2 hits, hopefully getting reved up for the season, esp. since AA has seemed to hand the #2 spot to him, better get on base and don't think of getting pick off with Bauts at the dish.

JMac4PM
03-22-2012, 03:00 PM
anybody know if theres a radio stream for todays game?

wagnall
03-22-2012, 03:03 PM
Really good pitching agian today. Probably Olivers best inning this spring.

1 run lead wonder if we see Santos for the close?

wagnall
03-22-2012, 03:11 PM
Johnson another hit 3 for 4 and a rbi. 2 -0 top of ninth, who's in for us, Frasor. He needs the work to get back in the groove I guess! Dissapointed not to see Santos just 1 time with the game close.

wagnall
03-22-2012, 03:19 PM
Frasor gets the save and Morrow a well done win for him.

Bats quiet today only 6 hits, Johnson 3, Bautista 2 and Lind, yes Lind, gets the other.

Eagles4Lyfe
03-22-2012, 03:19 PM
According to peripherals, he was our best pitcher...If you believe that stuff.
haha nice one.
I wasn't basing it of numbers I was going of from what i had saw from start to start. He wasn't as consistant as I thought he'd be.

He also strained his forearm just before the season started and missed the first few weeks of the season...

Not sure what people expect from him, the only thing I expected from him last year was a tonne of K's...which he had. I did think he would post an ERA closer to 4 then 5 though.

I still think his best days are ahead of him. I see him with an ERA around 4 and over 200 K's in 2012. He pitched well enough to win around 16 games last year, but only was rewarded with 11 W's. I think he could pitch well enough to win 18-20 times this year if he can make 32+ starts...which should allow him to get to 15 wins with our revamped bullpen.

Ya but even late into the season he could've shown some signs of that form he had in spring but it was an overall struggle but I'm still willing to give him a pass. I just hope he comes hard this year

urban legend
03-22-2012, 11:06 PM
I know its only st and everything.But Im starting to feel really optimistic about this team and season. The hitting and pitching looks strong overall to me. I think we may be competitve this yr. But chances are we start out strong and then start to falter by June or July as always

riderfan60
03-22-2012, 11:23 PM
Cliff Lee is tearing up the Jays and taking a crap on their remains... five strikeouts in two innings...

Morrow outpitches Lee to lead Blue Jays over Phililes
TSN Headline March 22, 2012

Not sure why you were so "meh" on Morrrow today when he didn't allow a run and pitched very well by all accounts, yet Cliff Lee pitches well, (gives up a run), and " is tearing up the Jays and taking a crap on their remains."

Hope you're actually a Jays fan.

Bombtista
03-22-2012, 11:47 PM
Morrow outpitches Lee to lead Blue Jays over Phililes
TSN Headline March 22, 2012

Not sure why you were so "meh" on Morrrow today when he didn't allow a run and pitched very well by all accounts, yet Cliff Lee pitches well, (gives up a run), and " is tearing up the Jays and taking a crap on their remains."

Hope you're actually a Jays fan.

He wasn't hard on Morrow. He said Lee dominated our hitting which he pretty much did.

es0terik
03-23-2012, 11:36 AM
Morrow outpitches Lee to lead Blue Jays over Phililes
TSN Headline March 22, 2012

Not sure why you were so "meh" on Morrrow today when he didn't allow a run and pitched very well by all accounts, yet Cliff Lee pitches well, (gives up a run), and " is tearing up the Jays and taking a crap on their remains."

Hope you're actually a Jays fan.

Did you even check what time I posted that? That was two innings into the game, and Lee had five strikeouts in the first two innings. So yes, he was decimating the Jays. Additionally, when did I say ANYTHING about Morrow? And Cliff Lee did go on to have a great outing against the Jays. Giving up a run doesn't mean anything, especially in Spring Training.

StealingSigns
03-23-2012, 04:47 PM
Since nstojic is taking a breather, I'll attempt to fill in for him...

Fangraphs looks at Yan Gomes' ST


Meaningless Spring Stats: The Yan Gomes Example

Every year it happens in spring training: A previously unknown (by the general fan population and mainstream media) minor league player posts dazzling statistics in spring training and everyone starts singing the praises of said player.

This year it happens to be catcher Yan Gomes, 24, in the Toronto Blue Jays’ spring camp. After Tuesday’s game he was hitting .474 with a slugging percentage of .842 in 19 at-bats. A very impressive performance but this is also a very small-sample size. Check out the Twitter love for Gomes as fans interact with Toronto sports radio personality Mike Wilner.

You’re kidding, right? @CharliePride78: @julianmktr The Jays would be STUPID if they don’t at least put Gomes on roster, as bench plyr!!!

Sample size, please. @CharliePride78: @Wilnerness590 @julianmktr The guy can play 3-4 different positions, he seems 2 be a gr8 hitter!!!

To get a better read on the backstop we have to look to his minor league career, as well as his scouting report. The problem with Gomes, who was drafted out of division II Barry University in the 10th round in ’09, is not his raw ability as much as it is in his approach. His mentality at the plate is what I like to call ‘hack-tastic.’ In his first full season in pro ball in ’10 he walked just 12 times in 259 at-bats. On the plus side he more than doubled that in 2011 at double-A (hitting just .250) but it remains to be seen if the approach sticks.

read on... (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/meaningless-spring-stats-the-yan-gomes-example/)

StealingSigns
03-23-2012, 04:54 PM
Not really Jays news, but AL East newsworthy.


New York Yankees relief pitcher Joba Chamberlain suffered an open dislocation of his right ankle while playing with his son on Thursday.

"As we understand, they were at, they have these kids places where you jump on trampolines and stuff like that," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said Friday.

Chamberlain had surgery on Thursday night at St. Joseph's Hospital, and is expected to remain in the hospital for several days for the injury, which resulted in an open flesh wound around the ankle. Manager Joe Girardi was at the hospital early Friday morning.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7727304/2012-spring-training-new-york-yankees-joba-chamberlain-suffers-severe-field-ankle-dislocation

Curt Schilling, talking from personal experience, states that it could take up to two years to recover, if he ever comes back 100%.

Meanwhile, the Red Sox got their own relief pitching headache news:


Boston Red Sox relief pitcher Bobby Jenks was arrested early Friday morning and charged with five misdemeanors, including driving under the influence and leaving the scene of a crash involving damage to property, according to the Lee County, Fla., sheriff's office.


Jenks
The police report indicated Jenks was booked at 3:43 a.m. and released on $4,250 bail at 8:45 a.m. Jenks also was charged with three counts of DUI and damage to property. He is tentatively scheduled to appear in court on April 9.

According to the police report, Jenks was pulled over in his white Mercedes SUV around 11:50 p.m. Thursday because he was driving erratically. When asked by the officer why he was all over the road, Jenks said it was because he "took too many muscle relaxers," according to the report. The officer observed Jenks was "shaking uncontrollably and had a difficult time speaking" and described him as "unsteady on his feet" with glassy eyes, dilated pupils and slurred speech.

The 31-year-old Jenks agreed to a field sobriety test but said, according to the report, "I'm going to fail it." During the test, Jenks indicated he couldn't complete it because he was "messed up." Jenks was then arrested, according to the report.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7727477/2012-spring-training-bobby-jenks-arrested-charges-driving-influence

wagnall
03-23-2012, 04:57 PM
Heard Zaun yesterday, seems to be back tracking a bit on the Jays outlook. But he talked of Romero, Alverez and Mcgowan being our top 3 pitchers. I missed what he said about Morrow, just caught that he's not sold on him.

Anyways just some fodder from Zaun, make what you want of it.

As for Gomes, time may run out on him before he gets it. 12 walks in 259 ABS, YIKES, thats Lind territory! :(

wagnall
03-23-2012, 05:01 PM
Not really Jays news, but AL East newsworthy.



http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7727304/2012-spring-training-new-york-yankees-joba-chamberlain-suffers-severe-field-ankle-dislocation

Curt Schilling, talking from personal experience, states that it could take up to two years to recover, if he ever comes back 100%.

Meanwhile, the Red Sox got their own relief pitching headache news:



http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7727477/2012-spring-training-bobby-jenks-arrested-charges-driving-influence


Maybe Jenks was on more than "muscle relaxers"??? what a dummy. :speechless:

StealingSigns
03-23-2012, 05:01 PM
Not sure if you guys have checked out RantSports yet (some fellow posters from PSD submit articles for the site).

Here is an article on Lawries expected return date:

http://network.yardbarker.com/mlb/article_external/brett_lawrie_still_not_ready_return_set_for_saturd ay/10380742

Check the site out, some pretty humorous videos (the 2012 Phoenix Open video is pretty funny!)

wagnall
03-23-2012, 05:17 PM
Seems like Sat. for Lawrie, good article. I looked for 2012 Phoenix, but clicked on 2012 March WAGness girl, then forgot about my life for few minutes there. :o

town123
03-23-2012, 05:54 PM
Not sure if you guys have checked out RantSports yet (some fellow posters from PSD submit articles for the site).

Here is an article on Lawries expected return date:

http://network.yardbarker.com/mlb/article_external/brett_lawrie_still_not_ready_return_set_for_saturd ay/10380742

Check the site out, some pretty humorous videos (the 2012 Phoenix Open video is pretty funny!)

Thx for DH'ing for Nj who's on the DL.

wagnall
03-23-2012, 06:16 PM
:offtopic: As Stealing noted... Chamberlain out for a while when he fell off his kids trampoline. Lots of wierd injuries. Whats next, someone gets hit by a plane??

StealingSigns
03-23-2012, 06:37 PM
Seems like Sat. for Lawrie, good article. I looked for 2012 Phoenix, but clicked on 2012 March WAGness girl, then forgot about my life for few minutes there. :o

There is lots of eye candy on that site ;)


Thx for DH'ing for Nj who's on the DL.

:D

Just keeping his seat warm.

StealingSigns
03-23-2012, 06:50 PM
Jose needs some love here...

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=706126

bartron_44
03-23-2012, 07:51 PM
I wonder what happened to Francisco, he left after half an inning today (replaced by Gose in who is now in the 3 hole..:) )

Geez, we have our second unit playing the rays starters tonight. The only regular starter I see in the game is EE (and he is our DH)...Interesting to see that Snider is in this lineup and not Thames.

Cecil now has 3 walks over his first 1.1 innings.....not looking very good.

bartron_44
03-23-2012, 07:52 PM
and a wild pitch by Cecil ......after a walk to put a man in scoring position.

bartron_44
03-23-2012, 07:56 PM
and then back to back walks to walk in a run......dear lord get him out of there.

bartron_44
03-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Geez, Carpenter comes on and strikes out the first 4 batters he faces...not too shabby.
we can't get much going off of price though..

BBB
03-23-2012, 10:13 PM
Getting the word from @rozon590 - #Bluejays down 5-3 to #Rays headed to 9th, Ben Francisco out with what seems to be a yanked hammy. #jays

Via Wilner (https://twitter.com/#!/Wilnerness590/status/183375566274166784)

treeleaf
03-23-2012, 10:26 PM
Put that man in the lineup!

BBB
03-23-2012, 10:36 PM
Gomes wow

Toxeryll
03-24-2012, 12:04 AM
Geez, Carpenter comes on and strikes out the first 4 batters he faces...not too shabby.
we can't get much going off of price though..

what does he throw??

Sanyo
03-24-2012, 02:28 PM
I guess no one following the game today -- 8-0 Jays already in the 5th. Lind having a great game with 4 rbis and 2 hits. Alvarez shining with a one hit shutout through 5 innings. Jays about to go 18-4-1 in Spring Training (I just wish this could be their real season record when they start)...

Dol-Fan
03-24-2012, 02:33 PM
I guess no one following the game today -- 8-0 Jays already in the 5th. Lind having a great game with 4 rbis and 2 hits. Alvarez shining with a one hit shutout through 5 innings. Jays about to go 18-4-1 in Spring Training (I just wish this could be their real season record when they start)...

I have been following, just not updating...

Alvarez has 4 Ks and 0 BBs as well, 7:5 GO:FO

Lind has a triple and an HR

KJ has a 3 RBI double

Vizquel with 2 singles

Esco with a single and a walk

Rasmus 1-3

Thames 2-3 with a 2B

Arencibia 1-3

Snider 0-3, 2 K

Dol-Fan
03-24-2012, 02:36 PM
Nice to see Santos get into the game, Ks the first batter he sees.

bomber0104
03-24-2012, 02:42 PM
hopefully the injury means we dont see Ben on the opening day roster

es0terik
03-24-2012, 02:43 PM
Goddamnit, Cecil yesterday... 2.2 Innings Pitched... 4 hits, 4 runs, 4 earned runs, 5 WALKS, 3 Ks.

Jays taking a crap on the Braves today.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 02:43 PM
hopefully the injury means we dont see Ben on the opening day roster

Maybe it's just me but that's kind of a pretty f'ed up thing to say.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 02:46 PM
A homer and a triple for Adam Lind so far today. Nice work.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Bautista with a line drive RBI double.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 02:52 PM
I know it doesn't matter, but if the Tigers lose today, Jays will be first place for the first time this spring :)

wagnall
03-24-2012, 02:56 PM
I have been following, just not updating...

Alvarez has 4 Ks and 0 BBs as well, 7:5 GO:FO

Lind has a triple and an HR

KJ has a 3 RBI double

Vizquel with 2 singles

Esco with a single and a walk

Rasmus 1-3

Thames 2-3 with a 2B

Arencibia 1-3

Snider 0-3, 2 K

I was going to note some performances but you did all the work.:)

Thames keeps hitting and Snider keeps striking out.

Nice to see Lind getting good ABS finally. Hope this is not a once in a while thing, but good on ya Lind.

Vizquel keeps getting hits, cannot see this guy not being on the bench. He's been best by far of the 3.

And our pithching is looking very good again.

Missed last nights game but see Cecil had a bad start, but Hutch put up a nice 4 innings.

Dol-Fan
03-24-2012, 02:58 PM
I was going to note some performances but you did all the work.:)

Thames keeps hitting and Snider keeps striking out.

Nice to see Lind getting good ABS finally. Hope this is not a once in a while thing, but good on ya Lind.

Vizquel keeps getting hits, cannot see this guy not being on the bench. He's been best by far of the 3.

And our pithching is looking very good again.

Missed last nights game but see Cecil had a bad start, but Hutch put up a nice 4 innings.

Lind just walked :speechless:

adid727
03-24-2012, 02:58 PM
This is why i want thames to be in our LF instead of snider. Snider does not walk. With the 2 strikeouts today, he has 16 and is tied for 2nd in the league so far this spring training. Only 2nd to jai Miller who has 68 career mlb at bats over three seasons and to Adam Loewen who is a former pitcher and was with the jays last season. They both have 17 SO. His BB to SO is really bad. 5:16. He's been up in the big leagues since 2008 and he hasn't shown any signs of improvement. While Thames has 4:8 so:bb ratio. Don't tell me snider is producing against some of these minor league pitchers. Once regular season starts, and he faces only mlb pitchers, we will see pitchers throw curve balls in the dirt and see him swing over the top of it just like we have since 2008. I predict that Thames will get the job, not only because he has shown the most improvement this spring, but also because snider has one more option left and he does not look ready to be an everyday player.

wagnall
03-24-2012, 03:00 PM
Anyone else wondering why it seems every game now Johnson is leading off ahead of Esc. Whats the deal with this, or is it just nothing.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 03:01 PM
Lind takes a walk, having a great day.

Dol-Fan
03-24-2012, 03:02 PM
Anyone else wondering why it seems every game now Johnson is leading off ahead of Esc. Whats the deal with this, or is it just nothing.

Farrell just trying things out

here is some of his rationale, if you're interested:


To the fact that for the second game in a row he’d moved Kelly Johnson into the leadoff spot, with incumbent leadoff man Yunel Escobar hitting second, Farrell simply said he was “taking a look.” He added that he felt that Escobar can use the whole field, and has “the ability to hit the hole” a little more [no, you turn six], while Johnson is more of a dead pull hitter. In other words, with a runner on he likes Escobar’s ability to get the ball through infielders playing at double play depth, plus the advantage he can provide on a hit and run.

stolen from DJF, stolen from a Farrell interview

es0terik
03-24-2012, 03:04 PM
God these Braves commentators are so DUMB... They think Fernando Hernandez (an Oakland prospect) is in the Jays right field... As opposed to Marcus Knecht, who's name they apparently they don't know. They're literally going off what I think is appearance.

wagnall
03-24-2012, 03:07 PM
Farrell just trying things out

here is some of his rationale, if you're interested:



stolen from DJF, stolen from a Farrell interview



Thanks for the info. :):)

Lind having a nice day, and takes a walk. Wonder how long this lasts, would be nice if this was a turn around, but I fear just a good game in ST. :(

es0terik
03-24-2012, 03:13 PM
God these Braves commentators are so DUMB... They think Fernando Hernandez (an Oakland prospect) is in the Jays right field... As opposed to Marcus Knecht, who's name they apparently they don't know. They're literally going off what I think is appearance.

Actually, it can't be appearance, given that Knecht is a white outfielder and Hernandez is a latino pitcher :facepalm:

wagnall
03-24-2012, 03:18 PM
^ Okay , when you start answering your own posts, its time to take a breath...:):):)

:rimshot:

es0terik
03-24-2012, 03:21 PM
^ Okay , when you start answering your own posts, its time to take a breath...:):):)

:rimshot:

I don't like editing posts :o . The little 'this post has been edited' thing is so ugly.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 03:36 PM
Lol wow... Tigers go into the bottom of the ninth losing 2-0. Then they homer and load the bases with an intentional walk to Ryan Raburn... Looks like Tigers are gonna walk off the Yankees.

Dol-Fan
03-24-2012, 03:39 PM
our most important relievers all pitched scoreless innings

Santos 1 H 1 BB 2 K
Oliver 1 BB
Janssen 1 H
Cordero 1 K

Janssen and Oliver all groundouts, Santos and Cordero induced only fly outs.

wagnall
03-24-2012, 03:44 PM
The guy I've been a little worried about was Oliver as he has had some bad outings, But his last 2 have been near perfect. Good to see. Maybe it just takes the older guys more time to get it going. :o

wagnall
03-24-2012, 03:50 PM
Lol wow... Tigers go into the bottom of the ninth losing 2-0. Then they homer and load the bases with an intentional walk to Ryan Raburn... Looks like Tigers are gonna walk off the Yankees.


Tigers will be monsters this year. Seems everyone can hit, and thier pitching is solid. Wondering if Martinez will be back at all this year, will make them even more scarier.

Of course Cabrera may not work at 3rd., he gets pissed and wants back to 1st. Big fight, they trade him to us for McCoy..... :)

town123
03-24-2012, 03:53 PM
Tigers will be monsters this year. Seems everyone can hit, and thier pitching is solid. Wondering if Martinez will be back at all this year, will make them even more scarier.

Of course Cabrera may not work at 3rd., he gets pissed and wants back to 1st. Big fight, they trade him to us for McCoy..... :)

If it would help.....I'll keep talking McCoy up here in the D.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 04:11 PM
Yankees score two clutch runs in the top of the 10th off a Dewayne Wise double :)

Tigers lose 4-2 and the Jays have the #1 Spring Training record in the MLB :)

adid727
03-24-2012, 04:31 PM
Yankees score two clutch runs in the top of the 10th off a Dewayne Wise double :)

Tigers lose 4-2 and the Jays have the #1 Spring Training record in the MLB :)

nice :)

LanceUpperCut
03-24-2012, 04:34 PM
I know it's only Spring training but my two favorite teams the Jays and the A's are both in first. The Jays along with the Raptors covering the spread have been money makers for me in the last couple weeks.

adid727
03-24-2012, 05:34 PM
wow Ryan Madson is out with an elbow injury. this is why AA does not sign free agent closers to a large contract

adid727
03-24-2012, 05:36 PM
Will this mean that joey votto will be available some time this season? i hope the jays would get him.

Iggy
03-24-2012, 06:12 PM
wow Ryan Madson is out with an elbow injury. this is why AA does not sign free agent closers to a large contract

I can remember lots of people in this forum complaining that AA did not sign Madson

I would never pay big money to free agent closers ... too risky

wagnall
03-24-2012, 06:34 PM
I can remember lots of people in this forum complaining that AA did not sign Madson

I would never pay big money to free agent closers ... too risky



add Soria to that list of thank you for not signing him.:)

es0terik
03-24-2012, 06:55 PM
add Soria to that list of thank you for not signing him.:)

EXACTLY. Everybody cried so hard when AA didn't sign Madson and the same thing happened when trade talks fell through with Soria. This just goes to show you how risky the reliever market is. Imagine giving away a top prospect like Gose to get Soria and have him benched for a year. I'd have loved for AA to have gotten Holland from the Royals instead, but I'm happy with Santos.


I know it's only Spring training but my two favorite teams the Jays and the A's are both in first. The Jays along with the Raptors covering the spread have been money makers for me in the last couple weeks.

Oakland may fall a few notches though, they're going to be in Japan for like a week playing exhibition games and then two early regular season games against the Mariners.

es0terik
03-24-2012, 07:05 PM
Holy **** LOL. Last I checked Tampa Bay was twied with the Twins 2-2. I check again and they lost 4-19...

es0terik
03-24-2012, 07:06 PM
I guess it was just that day for has-been first basemen... Morneau with 5 RBIs, Lind with 4. How does Mauer get 4 at bats in a 19 run win and not get a single RBI.

adid727
03-24-2012, 07:18 PM
I hope Morneau gets back to hitting well again this season. He is a great player and a great role model for all Canadians who want to make it in the big league.

bomber0104
03-24-2012, 09:53 PM
on another note.. glad we didn't sign Madson after all

StealingSigns
03-24-2012, 10:03 PM
on another note.. glad we didn't sign Madson after all

Yep, or trade for Soria.

BlueJayFanDan
03-25-2012, 12:11 AM
I'm really happy Lind had such a good day. I hope he can keep it up and get some momentum headed to the regular season. Also, good outing from Alvarez today. I expect big things from him this year, assuming he makes the rotation as I expect.

es0terik
03-25-2012, 02:20 AM
I doubt one spring training game means anything for Lind. Patterson went like 9 for 10 over two days last season. Until Lind learns to take a pitch, he'll stay a crappy, useless scrub.

1hardcore
03-25-2012, 04:18 AM
I guess it was just that day for has-been first basemen... Morneau with 5 RBIs, Lind with 4. How does Mauer get 4 at bats in a 19 run win and not get a single RBI.

it's weird sometimes but that's the way it goes.
maybe he lead off a couple of times and they drove him in

JMac4PM
03-25-2012, 09:47 AM
How does Mauer get 4 at bats in a 19 run win and not get a single RBI.

Maybe Joe Mauer was actually Colby Rasmus in disguise?

treeleaf
03-25-2012, 11:57 AM
Is there any audio/video feeds online for the game today? If so pm me.

bomber0104
03-25-2012, 02:21 PM
another good day for Lind with a 2B and HR

wagnall
03-25-2012, 02:39 PM
Lind raking 2 games in a row. Hopefully he's found something and carries this into the reg. season. Tough day for Laffey. Other than Lind, bats pretty quite so far.

Toxeryll
03-25-2012, 02:45 PM
good thing Laffey didnt do well. i dont want him near our rotation, we already have cecil

rapsjaysfan88
03-25-2012, 02:53 PM
red soxs trying to hurt jose...

wagnall
03-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Bautista nails a guy at 3rd., and then they have a DP, Bauts/Lawrie. Was that on the same play?

rapsjaysfan88
03-25-2012, 02:57 PM
jose was hit in the hand, hopefully he's alright.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 02:59 PM
Clear the benches. Okay Lind here's when you need to shine, when Bautista gets on base.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:02 PM
Davis in for Bauts., expected him to come out, hope it has nothing to do with his hand. Davis gets to 3rd, and they walk Lind. Not sure if it was intentional walk, would make sence with a guy on 3rd.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:04 PM
EE brings in Davis, Cooper to 3rd. EE swinging a nice bat this TC. :)

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:07 PM
Anyone know who Ricardo Nanita is who's pinch running for EE. Can't say I've heard this guys name this TC.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:22 PM
Hopen that Snider would have put 1 out with 2 on, but grounded out but got the tying RBI.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:26 PM
Vill. another good inning and Frasor 3 up 3 down all SO. He's been doing better lately as well.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:31 PM
Perez in now, bases loaded and 1 out, game tied.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:33 PM
DP, he gets out of it. Don't want another tie. Bailey in for Boston , see what they paid for?

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:38 PM
Davis gets a single then steals 2nd again. This guy can run, and his bat seems to be getting better. But last TC he was a monster, then that was it.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:42 PM
Bailey gets out of it Davis caught at home and the rest get out. Wonder who's coming in for the 9th. as probaly last inning regardless.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:46 PM
I guess they will play a 10th if needed, Philly and the Orioles are 3-3 after 9 and playing the 10th.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:47 PM
Hoey a 1 -2 -3 9th. Lets win it now.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:52 PM
Alas Snider strikes out again.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 03:59 PM
Clint Everts ??? replaces Hoey top of 10. Another guy I haven't heard much about.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 04:05 PM
Sox 2nd and 3rd with 1 out. It appears there T Ball players are playing ours!

wagnall
03-25-2012, 04:08 PM
Bases juiced for Boston, we get out of it with a DP. Bottom 10th, I assume last inning.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 04:13 PM
Davis another bunt single, Valuena at 2nd 2 on 0 outs. Lets win it for number 19.

wagnall
03-25-2012, 04:14 PM
Cooper walks , bases loaded 0 outs. Looks like win 19.

1hardcore
03-25-2012, 04:26 PM
19 in the books ...

Great spring , but still huge question marks on the starting 5 (4th , 5th)IMO

wagnall
03-25-2012, 04:28 PM
And Nanita drives in winning run...19 - 4 .

wagnall
03-25-2012, 04:30 PM
19 in the books ...

Great spring , but still huge question marks on the starting 5 (4th , 5th)IMO


Very true. Romero, Morrow and Alverez have been solid. Still waiting to see who grabs 4 and 5. :)

Toxeryll
03-25-2012, 04:58 PM
Very true. Romero, Morrow and Alverez have been solid. Still waiting to see who grabs 4 and 5. :)

yup, im still hoping AA trades for a starting pitcher. cecil, mcgowan and laffey dont excite me

rapsjaysfan88
03-25-2012, 07:05 PM
id love 2 see drabek and hutch grab those spots

Sanyo
03-25-2012, 08:17 PM
id love 2 see drabek and hutch grab those spots

I would love Hutch as well but I think they give him some more time at Double A and give McGowan and Drabek another shot. I see Hutch up at the first sign of trouble mid-season -- and you also have Jenkins and McGuire -- I am so pumped this year is going to be crazy!