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View Full Version : The Denver GM is a genius...



FlawlessVictory
03-15-2012, 07:00 PM
Does anyone seriously question the thread title?

Somehow he has managed to put the following roster together:

Long term deals:

Ty Lawson**
Aaron Affalo
Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler**
Ken Faried
Al Harrington
Kosta Koufos
Chris Anderson
Jordan Hamilton

* Strongly rumoured to be signing for a 5 year deal in the region of $30 million.
** Lawson is virtually guaranteed to get a big long term extension when the time comes (He is contracted until the end of the 2013/2014 season with his rookie deal)

Short to medium term deals:

Corey Brewer
Rudy Fernandez
Timofey Mozgov

Expiring this year:

Andre Miller - Become a unrestricted free agent
Ronny Turiaf - Becomes a unrestricted free agent
Javale McGee - Becomes a restricted free agent

===========================================

I think they will look to give Mozgov a new deal and one out of Brewer and Fernandez. As for McGee; Whether or not they keep him long term will depend on how he performs the rest of this season and if the bidding for him doesn't get out of control in the off season.

Overall, it looks as though the Denver GM has locked up some great young talent long term and all within the projected ~$60 million cap over the next few years. Worst case scenario they go $5-$10 million over if they decide to pay McGee decent money along with Lawsons inevitable big deal.

They turned a potential mess of a situation created by Melo and come out of it with one of the most talented, deepest and youngest rosters in the league.... impressive.

The big question surrounding them will be whether you can win a conference title without a legit 'star' that most pundits and fans are obsessed with. I hope they do it as it would be great for the NBA imo.

Philapsychosis
03-15-2012, 07:11 PM
Really made the best out of that whole Melo mess, and legitimately improved that team.

FlawlessVictory
03-15-2012, 07:14 PM
No doubt,

For the rest of this season, I reckon we see the following lineup a lot:

Lawson
Affalo
Chandler
Gallinari
McGee

Young, great on the fast break and lots of 3 point shooting.

If they are up against the Lakers for example, they can take out Chandler and insert Faried at PF. So many options moving forward.

justinnum1
03-15-2012, 07:15 PM
mad props to denver

Gram
03-15-2012, 07:15 PM
I love most a the players on that team.

king_of_limbs
03-15-2012, 07:16 PM
Remember when everyone was complaining about Denver trying to milk out the Melo drama and get as many good players as possible, and now they have gotten significantly better without him. Only issue is cap space means nothing when free agents have no desire to sign there.

FuNny how this year you guys complained about the Magic not trying to milk out the Dwight drama. I will drink your crocodile tears and spit it in your face

Dade County
03-15-2012, 07:17 PM
nasty ... but this lineup can take you only so far.

nycericanguy
03-15-2012, 07:19 PM
Remember when everyone was complaining about Denver trying to milk out the Melo drama and get as many good players as possible, and now they have gotten significantly better without him. Only issue is cap space means nothing when free agents have no desire to sign there.

FuNny how this year you guys complained about the Magic not trying to milk out the Dwight drama. I will drink your crocodile tears and spit it in your face

I like what DEN has done, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Melo had that team winning 50+ games year in and year out. I'm not so sure they are a 50 win team as currently constituted.

John Walls Era
03-15-2012, 07:20 PM
Give him some respect by mentioning his name: Masai Ujiri. I think he worked for the Raptors before getting the gig.

ellisgw
03-15-2012, 07:22 PM
I like what DEN has done, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Melo had that team winning 50+ games year in and year out. I'm not so sure they are a 50 win team as currently constituted.

they just have so many ways to imporve and get better.

shep33
03-15-2012, 07:26 PM
They have a huge TPE from that trade. Brilliant job Ujri (is that how you say his name)

FlawlessVictory
03-15-2012, 07:30 PM
One interesting thing about them is the rising impact of Faried... the guy is a beast and his upside is scary imo.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/farieke01.html

His per 36 minutes is 16 points, 13 rebounds and 2 blocks...

The combination of his emergence and the pending signing of Chandler made the decision to get rid of Nene easy imo.

Iodine
03-15-2012, 07:33 PM
The Ghost of Dean Oliver.

PurpleJesus
03-15-2012, 07:58 PM
He's done a good job, but regarding Melo, the only place he was going to go was NYK, which is how he ended up with most of his assets. If he was trading Melo in an open trading market, who knows what scenario he would have chosen. Nice talent evaluation for grabbing Kenneth Farried late, in what was considered a weak draft class.

PurpleJesus
03-15-2012, 08:00 PM
Another thing to commend him for, is realizing the mistake of signing Nene to that giant contract. A lot of GM's would not admit the mistake, and would hope the player would prove them right...Denver didnt take long to realize the contract was ridiculous, an they moved on.

FarOutIos
03-15-2012, 08:01 PM
Genius? I'm not quite sure I'd go that far...

The list of players he has put together is pretty good... but NONE of them really have that wow factor. They can all play good together, which is good. Team basketball is important. But who is the true superstar of the team?

At some point, in the playoffs, your chances are much better if you have at least one of the elite players on your team. With so many pieces on the team, why didn't they try and upgrade in a trade?

In all, I think they are maximizing their potential as a team... but could really do better by making a move for a star player.

BigBlueCrew
03-15-2012, 08:04 PM
nasty ... but this lineup can take you only so far.

bingo

maybe he can do a movie MoneyBall 2: The Basketball Version

mavwar53
03-15-2012, 08:05 PM
nasty ... but this lineup can take you only so far.

same thought here, they can be good but they will not win championships, no real take over the game type players. just a lot of good/above average players. Maybe the Philly of the West? But this year is the best year for the extreme amount of depth since the games are all bunched together.

Rio2011
03-15-2012, 08:08 PM
Yeah, he is a genius...he got rid of Melo & Nene. He is a true wizard.

IgglesFanInCO
03-15-2012, 08:09 PM
He looks so much better when you realize the specific things he has done, outside of the nene deal(which doesnt matter anymore) he has consistently signed players for 15% cheaper than expected at least and has gotten maximum trade value out of everything, not only what he did in the melo trade but the rudy fernandez and corey brewer for a 2nd rounder? if they dont retain McGee, and let miller walk, they will have PLENTY of cap space to go after a superstar in FA, they have more trade assets than any team in the league, and budding potential superstars in Lawson, Gallinari, Chandler, Faried, and debate-ably Mcgee

Bravo95
03-15-2012, 08:11 PM
Yep, he is getting it done. Swallowing pride and doing what's best for that franchise.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-15-2012, 08:13 PM
Just hope some of his genius rubs on McGee.

FlawlessVictory
03-15-2012, 08:15 PM
same thought here, they can be good but they will not win championships, no real take over the game type players. just a lot of good/above average players. Maybe the Philly of the West? But this year is the best year for the extreme amount of depth since the games are all bunched together.


bingo

maybe he can do a movie MoneyBall 2: The Basketball Version


Genius? I'm not quite sure I'd go that far...

The list of players he has put together is pretty good... but NONE of them really have that wow factor. They can all play good together, which is good. Team basketball is important. But who is the true superstar of the team?

At some point, in the playoffs, your chances are much better if you have at least one of the elite players on your team. With so many pieces on the team, why didn't they try and upgrade in a trade?

In all, I think they are maximizing their potential as a team... but could really do better by making a move for a star player.

All fair points. Outside of Detroit, it has proved close to impossible to win a title without a true 'superstar' in the last 20+ years.

In the first or second episode of the Association documentary on the Nuggets, Karl said their strategy is to build a team with a top 10 player at every position and have a deep bench... Only time will tell if it proves effective.

NYY 26 to 7
03-15-2012, 08:15 PM
How is Denver better and how is the gm a genious? Is the goal to be an 8 seed? They just traded perhaps their best player for McGee who might not be back next year. So they have cap space ? The all mighty cap space. Wonderful what does this do for them besides the hope tht they can get better players. I honestly don't get the move at all they just tried so hard to sign nene to that deal. Your assuming chandler is getting a deal. The assumption that they are better without melo just isn't holding true. Those teams were 50+ win teams lets not just think about last year. Does anyone really think about the past and look before they make these claims?

akagiredsuns
03-15-2012, 08:19 PM
I like what DEN has done, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Melo had that team winning 50+ games year in and year out. I'm not so sure they are a 50 win team as currently constituted.

So what? 50+ wins doesn't mean anything. The Suns were winning 50+ a year with Nash, Stoudamire, Diaw, Bell, Marion & Barbosa. Don't mean a damn thing. How many NBA Finals did Melo go to all those years in Denver? NONE. Suns were no different. Point is, as long as you get into the playoffs is what you do in the postseason that matters. Cavs won 66 & 62 with Lebron in '09 & '10. ZERO NBA Finals. You get the point. 50 wins is just a stat. ;)

Go_NUGGETS
03-15-2012, 08:19 PM
How is Denver better and how is the gm a genious? Is the goal to be an 8 seed? They just traded perhaps their best player for McGee who might not be back next year. So they have cap space ? The all mighty cap space. Wonderful what does this do for them besides the hope tht they can get better players. I honestly don't get the move at all they just tried so hard to sign nene to that deal. Your assuming chandler is getting a deal. The assumption that they are better without melo just isn't holding true. Those teams were 50+ win teams lets not just think about last year. Does anyone really think about the past and look before they make these claims?

"Perhaps" our best player? No No No, just NO!

NYY 26 to 7
03-15-2012, 08:21 PM
He looks so much better when you realize the specific things he has done, outside of the nene deal(which doesnt matter anymore) he has consistently signed players for 15% cheaper than expected at least and has gotten maximum trade value out of everything, not only what he did in the melo trade but the rudy fernandez and corey brewer for a 2nd rounder? if they dont retain McGee, and let miller walk, they will have PLENTY of cap space to go after a superstar in FA, they have more trade assets than any team in the league, and budding potential superstars in Lawson, Gallinari, Chandler, Faried, and debate-ably Mcgee

But when was the last time a star was like man I really want to go to Denver. They are trying to build the pistons and I just don't think it's likely. I'm a fan of Gallo but I don't see this roster as anything special. Maybe like a hawks west or now sixers where their ceiling seems to be a 4 but they can't get over those top teams in the playoffs.

FlawlessVictory
03-15-2012, 08:22 PM
How is Denver better and how is the gm a genious? Is the goal to be an 8 seed? They just traded perhaps their best player for McGee who might not be back next year. So they have cap space ? The all mighty cap space. Wonderful what does this do for them besides the hope tht they can get better players. I honestly don't get the move at all they just tried so hard to sign nene to that deal. Your assuming chandler is getting a deal. The assumption that they are better without melo just isn't holding true. Those teams were 50+ win teams lets not just think about last year. Does anyone really think about the past and look before they make these claims?
Eh... did you bother to read the thread?

Firstly, by moving Nene they are in a position to sign Chandler to a long term deal, give Ty Lawson a big contract AND have the option of keeping McGee long term; all this and manage to stay within the cap or only go over by $5-$10 million.

Secondly, whats the 8 seed comment about? They are currently in 6th with the same amount of wins as the Clippers who are in 4th... they got into this position with Nene missing the majority of the season, Gallinari being out for 10+ games, injuries to Affalo, Fernandez, Lawson which kept them out for more than one game and without having Chandler on the roster...

A fully healthy roster and they are easily pushing for a top 3 seed in the West imo.

One final note; Getting a legit superstar is pretty much 100% luck. Even if you completely go into tank mode you are guaranteed absolutely nothing... Just look at Portland, they just waived Greg Oden today.

I think Denver has gone about this the right way; It's the NBA system that is f...ed up imo, not Denvers attitude to building a team.

NYY 26 to 7
03-15-2012, 08:23 PM
"Perhaps" our best player? No No No, just NO!

I will admit I haven't been able to watch many games this year I'm going on the past. But it just really shocked me today since you just resigned him. This has been a weird year for many players too with no camp and guys not in bball shape.

NYY 26 to 7
03-15-2012, 08:28 PM
Eh... did you bother to read the thread?

Firstly, by moving Nene they are in a position to sign Chandler to a long term deal, give Ty Lawson a big contract AND have the option of keeping McGee long term; all this and manage to stay within the cap or only go over by $5-$10 million.

Secondly, whats the 8 seed comment about? They are currently in 6th with the same amount of wins as the Clippers who are in 4th... they got into this position with Nene missing the majority of the season, Gallinari being out for 10+ games, injuries to Affalo, Fernandez, Lawson which kept them out for more than one game and without having Chandler on the roster...

A fully healthy roster and the are easily pushing for a top 3 seed in the West imo.

Yea I did just really don't think much of McGee he is lazy and his head just seems to rarely in the game. And chandler I'm not a huge fan either. Cap space isn't some great player. It's interesting what they are trying to do well see how it works. I don't think it's anywhere near a contending team and I'm entitled to my opinion.

crewfan13
03-15-2012, 08:30 PM
I don't know if I'd quite say genius either. He's made some good moves, but it helps quite a bit that he inherited an extremely valuable trade asset in Melo. Say what you want about Melo's game, but there's no denying he was a valuable commodity at the time of his trade. That's where they acquired some of their better peices. Now Denver has made some good moves beyond that, but getting value out of a superstar doesn't make him a genius. Having cap space to get a disgruntled Rudy and slightly overpaid Brewer was a good move, but its not like it was the move of the century. Basically, they've drafted pretty well and maximized Melo's trade value. He's done a good job, but its not like he's pulling off these ridiculous moves that no one else would have thought of.

nycericanguy
03-15-2012, 08:31 PM
Eh... did you bother to read the thread?

Firstly, by moving Nene they are in a position to sign Chandler to a long term deal, give Ty Lawson a big contract AND have the option of keeping McGee long term; all this and manage to stay within the cap or only go over by $5-$10 million.

Secondly, whats the 8 seed comment about? They are currently in 6th with the same amount of wins as the Clippers who are in 4th... they got into this position with Nene missing the majority of the season, Gallinari being out for 10+ games, injuries to Affalo, Fernandez, Lawson which kept them out for more than one game and without having Chandler on the roster...

A fully healthy roster and they are easily pushing for a top 3 seed in the West imo.

One final note; Getting a legit superstar is pretty much 100% luck. Even if you completely go into tank mode you are guaranteed absolutely nothing... Just look at Portland, they just waived Greg Oden today.

I think Denver has gone about this the right way; It's the NBA system that is f...ed up imo, not Denvers attitude to building a team.

They could have signed Chandler regardless, they had his rights and he was restricted.

Fresno
03-15-2012, 08:34 PM
They could have signed Chandler regardless, they had his rights and he was restricted.
No. The problem is the amount of money Chandler wants which is in the range of $7-9 Million per year or he's willing to sign in Italy and become a Restricted Free Agent this summer.

Denver didn't want to make longterm committments to Chandler when they were already paying Nene $67 Million.

Now they have 1 less huge contract to worry about.

da ThRONe
03-15-2012, 08:35 PM
This is less about Denver's GM brilliance and more about James Dolan ignorance. He should have let Walsh handle the Melo situation without interference.

FlawlessVictory
03-15-2012, 08:35 PM
They could have signed Chandler regardless, they had his rights and he was restricted.
Yes, but by doing so, it would have impacted on their ability to pay Lawson big money down the line.... by moving Nene, they can now do that and sign Chandler.

Bravo95
03-15-2012, 08:36 PM
But when was the last time a star was like man I really want to go to Denver. They are trying to build the pistons and I just don't think it's likely. I'm a fan of Gallo but I don't see this roster as anything special. Maybe like a hawks west or now sixers where their ceiling seems to be a 4 but they can't get over those top teams in the playoffs.
They're building a team, and still have plenty of movable assets. The goal for all teams should be to get rid of coach killers and bad contracts, not acquire them -- though some fans (and front offices) don't recognize that if all they pay attention to is how many points a guy scored or how much ESPN talks about him.

IgglesFanInCO
03-15-2012, 08:37 PM
I will admit I haven't been able to watch many games this year I'm going on the past. But it just really shocked me today since you just resigned him. This has been a weird year for many players too with no camp and guys not in bball shape.

Like I said, as someone who has watched every game he has played this year start to finish, he is at best the 4th best player on that team, one of the more overrated players in the league by other teams fans its baffling really, getting rid of his contract was win enough getting value for him was just a bonus

nycericanguy
03-15-2012, 08:38 PM
Yes, but by doing so, it would have impacted on their ability to pay Lawson big money down the line.... by moving Nene, they can now do that and sign Chandler.

Not really, they have Lawson's rights also to extend him this summer.

Only way it really would have affected that is if their owner is cheap and didn't want to pay.

I'm not too familiar with DEN's owner and whether he spends or not, but DEN could have signed Lawson & Chandler and kept Nene. They had the rights to all those guys.

Ladies Man
03-15-2012, 08:38 PM
One of my favorite teams for awhile now. I didn't know what was going to happen after the Carmelo fiasco but they have a better chance of winning a championship without him than with him.

samus
03-15-2012, 08:41 PM
Yea I did just really don't think much of McGee he is lazy and his head just seems to rarely in the game. And chandler I'm not a huge fan either. Cap space isn't some great player. It's interesting what they are trying to do well see how it works. I don't think it's anywhere near a contending team and I'm entitled to my opinion.

Reading your posts I'm assuming your a Knicks fan who doesnt watch the Nuggets at all. Saying melo had 50 wins with the nuggets, yeah he did that, but this season only has 62? games and spot 4-13 in West are 2-4 games between each team, there are a lot of really good teams in the west, the East does not even compare! Melo plays good when offense is run through him, and proves he cant shine when its shared around.

This trade i guess adds more depth, but I havent seen McGee play... I assume hes still very rookyish... however

Ty Lawson / Andy miller /
Afflalo / Rudy Fernandez / Corey Brewer
Gallonari/ Chandler /
K Farried / Al Harrington / Ronny Turiaf
JaV McGee / Mosgov / Birdman

Thats 13 solid players!!! I cant believe it! And Jordan Hamilton / Julyian Stone/ Koufos on bench too.

Deepest Team in the league? I just question will they all be effective sharing minutes or are some of these players not going to play at all. Knowing Karl usually never plays his Rooks unless he has to.

FlawlessVictory
03-15-2012, 08:46 PM
Yes, but by doing so, it would have impacted on their ability to pay Lawson big money down the line.... by moving Nene, they can now do that and sign Chandler.

Not really, they have Lawson's rights also to extend him this summer.

Only way it really would have affected that is if their owner is cheap and didn't want to pay.

I'm not too familiar with DEN's owner and whether he spends or not, but DEN could have signed Lawson & Chandler and kept Nene. They had the rights to all those guys.

Huh?

Lawson is not eligible for an extension for a few years yet... By that time the new massive luxury tax changes will have come into force... Every team in the Nba are adapting their long term strategies to deal with that, not just Denver.

Just because you have a players rights, doesnt mean you can keep all of them... Technically you can, but in reality, with the new luxury tax system, you cant.

As crazy as it sounds, OKC are probably going to have to let either Harden or Ibaka go because of the new lux tax system.

samus
03-15-2012, 08:47 PM
and you may have the best blocking team in the west with McGee/Birdman/Turiaf/Faried

however its a shame to see Nene go, BUT Nuggets fans have something to be excited for,

nycericanguy
03-15-2012, 08:51 PM
Huh?

Lawson is not eligible for an extension for a few years yet... By that time the new massive luxury tax chances will have come into force... Every team in the Nba are adapting their long term strategies to deal with that, not just Denver.

Just because you have a players rights, doesnt mean you can keep all of them... Technically you can, but in reality, with the new luxury tax system, you cant.

Not sure where you're getting that info, Lawson has been in the league 3 years now, you're saying a player isn't eligible for an extension until at least 6 years? That's not the case, its year 4, he's eligible this summer or in the beginning of next year, not sure which.

DEN's cap was at $51m with Nene next year, figuring $13-15m for Lawson & Chandler would have put them a bit over the cap but not at the luxury tax level. And they had Birdman's $5m and Brewers $4m coming off the books in another year as well.

Bottom line is DEN didn't need to do this deal to sign Chandler or Lawson as you state.

Raph12
03-15-2012, 08:56 PM
Al Harrington, Kosta Koufos, Chris Anderson and Jordan Hamilton to long term contracts wasn't really genius, but yes, overall he has done a great job with trading his star.

numba1CHANGsta
03-15-2012, 09:04 PM
They are still a Superstar away from being championship contenders

Fresno
03-15-2012, 09:10 PM
This is less about Denver's GM brilliance and more about James Dolan ignorance. He should have let Walsh handle the Melo situation without interference.

1. Walsh physically/mentally couldnt handle the job anymore.

2. James Dolan lost all faith in Donnie after he was unable to bring LeBron to the Knicks.

Do you honestly believe Melo would've opted out of his contract and took far less money this past offseason to join the Knicks as a Free Agent? He would've been a New Jersey Net. The Knicks had no clue Deron Williams was available as Kevin O'Connor only took a call from the Nets regarding him just a few hours before the Trade deadline.

Jarvo
03-15-2012, 09:14 PM
Way to go Denver !

BallIsAll
03-15-2012, 09:18 PM
Superstar is a word thrown around by fans who hardly watch basketball. **** superstars, lebron and wade lost to a superstar-less bulls team when rose was out. There are literally only 2 superstars in the league. Masai is destroying and raping other GMs and we cause match up problems to every team in the league thanks to him. The Knicks have 2 "superstars" and are hot garbage.

TeamGoku
03-15-2012, 09:23 PM
i love the nuggets the way they are set up now NO so called superstar NO huge over blown ego's solid team defense and lots oof fast breaks

Tony_Starks
03-15-2012, 09:25 PM
He's a good GM but I refuse to call anyone who traded for McGee is genius. Im all for shedding Nene's contract but IMO they could've got a much better quality player.

da ThRONe
03-15-2012, 09:41 PM
1. Walsh physically/mentally couldnt handle the job anymore.

2. James Dolan lost all faith in Donnie after he was unable to bring LeBron to the Knicks.

Do you honestly believe Melo would've opted out of his contract and took far less money this past offseason to join the Knicks as a Free Agent? He would've been a New Jersey Net. The Knicks had no clue Deron Williams was available as Kevin O'Connor only took a call from the Nets regarding him just a few hours before the Trade deadline.

Gutting the Knicks to acquire Melo was a clear mistake one Walsh was well aware of. They were clearly in the driver seat in that situation. Denver had no chance to retain Anthony and Anthony only wanted the Knicks and every team knew that Melo only wanted to be a Knick. Carmelo opened his mouth being greedy, Dolan panicked, then the Knicks successfully out bidded themselves.

Blueballz
03-15-2012, 10:19 PM
I dont remember the guys name, but I remember another GM turned them down cause the pay was too small. Masai was picked up at a bargin price, so yes the owner of the Nuggets is cheap. Although it is the owner (owners son) and Masai who work out the deals.

The best part of the Carmelo trade as all the piece Denver got, and Carmelo could of just walked at the end of the season and signed with NY.

The best part of the Nene trade is now George Karl will have to give Faried more minutes, very excited about that!

PatsSoxKnicks
03-15-2012, 10:26 PM
The Ghost of Dean Oliver.

Totally. He drafted Lawson, and was behind the afflalo trade too. I'm pretty sure he had something to do with drafting Faried too as he was with the Nuggets during the year.

DR_1
03-15-2012, 10:28 PM
Well done Ujiri, lots of props and respect. That Melodrama was not an easy thing to handle.

010957
03-15-2012, 10:35 PM
Wow mad respect for Ujiri, consistently keeps on winning in trades....

beasted86
03-15-2012, 10:41 PM
Can that core win a championship?

Then I wouldn't call it genius. But he's surely a good GM.

AsfanSince99
03-15-2012, 10:59 PM
I like what Denver has done. Good job getting back good pieces and ridding yourselves of Nene's contract.

king4day
03-15-2012, 11:44 PM
I don't get why Chandler isn't testing free agency.
I'd give him 8mil at the least. Denver got a major discount.

MrfadeawayJB
03-16-2012, 12:07 AM
Sounds like a good video game team too

KingOf215
03-16-2012, 12:18 AM
The goal of every GM should be to build a team that wins championships. The Nuggets did very good considering that they lost their best player, but this team isn't fooling anybody... they aren't going to be contending for an NBA championship. They have a good start, but they aren't done. Being that team that consistently makes the playoffs as the 3rd, 4th or 5th seed only to get eventually knocked out by the big dogs gets old after awhile. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out either.

JayHunter
03-16-2012, 04:48 AM
I love what Denver is doing

DenButsu
03-16-2012, 05:15 AM
I just wrote this big-*** blog post about why I think this was a good trade. It's a bit long, so click at your own risk. :cool:

Trading Nene for JaVale McGee: Why Ujiri and Kroenke Were Right to Do It (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=703972)

(That^ is in the Nuggs forum - you can click the "24" up there ↗ to see it at the blog page)

--------------------------------------------------

The Ghost of Dean Oliver.

Ujiri had pretty well established himself as a skilled scout before his first tenure with the Nuggets (as a scout), but there's definitely a lot of truth to this. Dean Oliver had a major influence on the culture of the Nuggets organization, and he and Ujiri worked directly together for several years before the latter moved on to Toronto's front office. Unfortunately, Dean moved on, too, but he was a big part of shaping the Nuggets' prowess at finding efficient, slightly under the radar players (Lawson, Afflalo, Faried, ...)

Losoway
03-16-2012, 06:10 AM
That lineup will never come out of the second round . LOL

people give denver way too much credit ...ok they have a bunch of role players bravo bravo

DenButsu
03-16-2012, 06:51 AM
That lineup will never come out of the second round . LOL

people give denver way too much credit ...ok they have a bunch of role players bravo bravo

If you think this trade was about getting beyond the 2nd round this season, then I'm sorry, but you really have no concept of what just happened on Denver's side of this trade, or its implications over the next five years.

The Wizards were seeking immediate changes. The whole team culture was pretty much rotting from within. Time will tell, but they may have just taken a pretty big step towards cleaning up that mess.

For the Nuggets, on the other hand, this was entirely about engineering a team for the future, and when you take ALL aspects into consideration (you appear not to have) such as stockpiling assets (including picks and trade exceptions), creating flexibility and options moving forward, etc. (not just star power), Denver definitely comes out a winner in this trade (which is not to imply that any of the other teams came out losers).

In 2014-15, when the inevitable "Top 10 Worst Contracts" thread pops up again, open it up and you'll find Nene's name there. (Follow the link in my post above to see some stats about how far Nene has dropped off this season).

IBleedPurple
03-16-2012, 09:36 AM
Al Harrington, Kosta Koufos, Chris Anderson and Jordan Hamilton to long term contracts wasn't really genius, but yes, overall he has done a great job with trading his star.

While I agree that Harrington was questionable at the time, he has been a top 3 sixth man this year.

As for Birdman, Ujiri wasn't here yet.

Koufos has been surprising, and definitely has upside. Good signing.

And since you didn't know, Hamilton is a rookie.

Rentzias
03-16-2012, 10:24 AM
Ujiri has been great at maneuvering out of tough situations, but he was also behind the signing of Nene in the first place, and if it comes to it, perhaps paying Arron Afflalo more than Wilson Chandler for much less of a result.
I do think he has put us in some good positions, but a lot of those came out of tough situations as well, the last of which he put us in. He deserves a lot of credit for being able to maintain, and as others have pointed out, recognize a mistake and resolve it.

NYK4L
03-16-2012, 10:35 AM
This is less about Denver's GM brilliance and more about James Dolan ignorance. He should have let Walsh handle the Melo situation without interference.

True dat!

mudvayne387
03-16-2012, 10:52 AM
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

Denver will never win a championship with its current roster, this is a star driven league.The Pistons were the last team to win a championship with all B players and they had some of the best defensive teams in NBA history.

And lets be honest, this thread was created not only to praise the Nuggets, but to provide a subtle opportunity for posters to bash the Knicks for the Melo trade...

KnickFanSince91
03-16-2012, 12:19 PM
A high scoring team of role players that don't play any defense? Where have I seen this before....

BallIsAll
03-16-2012, 12:28 PM
A high scoring team of role players that don't play any defense? Where have I seen this before....

I have noticed its mostly NY fans hating throughout the thread so i will quote myself.


Superstar is a word thrown around by fans who hardly watch basketball. **** superstars, lebron and wade lost to a superstar-less bulls team when rose was out. There are literally only 2 superstars in the league. Masai is destroying and raping other GMs and we cause match up problems to every team in the league thanks to him. The Knicks have 2 "superstars" and are hot garbage.

A team full of above average players would do a lot better than a team with

2 wannabe superstars
1 hyped up Asian
1 defender
1 shot happy, hard headed wannabe thug
and a whole bunch of players either rejected by other teams or unworthy of mentioning.


Ill take

Lawson - Miller
Afflalo - Rudy
Gallo - Chandler
Faried - Harrington
McGee - Mozgov

over

Lin - Davis
Fields - Smith
Melo - Novak
A'mare - Jeffries
Chandler - ???

any day of the week

DenButsu
03-16-2012, 12:29 PM
And lets be honest, this thread was created not only to praise the Nuggets, but to provide a subtle opportunity for posters to bash the Knicks for the Melo trade...

Project much?

Funny, because seems to me that it actually stayed on topic until Knicks fans started trying to make it about the Knicks.

Things I'll never understand: Why Knicks fans grew to hate the Nuggets through the whole Melo ordeal. You can't say a damn thing about Denver in the NBA forum without Knicks fans swarming it with hater posts.

Not saying it's all Knicks fans (or even a majority of them), but they sure come out of the woodwork. What the hell is up with that? If someone says anything complimentary about Denver it's guaranteed an NYK fan (or several) will jump in to bash it. Because....?

I still don't get it.

mudvayne387
03-16-2012, 01:19 PM
Its really not much of a prediction, history is well on my side.

I feel no different about the Nuggets now than I did before the Melo trade. I am simply stating the facts. This team will never win a championship the way the NBA is currently set-up. They are the 8th seed in the west, its not like this team is made up of a bunch of rookies. Its primarily a veteran team with B level talent.

What is going to propel them to the next level ?







Project much?

Funny, because seems to me that it actually stayed on topic until Knicks fans started trying to make it about the Knicks.

Things I'll never understand: Why Knicks fans grew to hate the Nuggets through the whole Melo ordeal. You can't say a damn thing about Denver in the NBA forum without Knicks fans swarming it with hater posts.

Not saying it's all Knicks fans (or even a majority of them), but they sure come out of the woodwork. What the hell is up with that? If someone says anything complimentary about Denver it's guaranteed an NYK fan (or several) will jump in to bash it. Because....?

I still don't get it.

mudvayne387
03-16-2012, 01:27 PM
Since 2000:

Do you honestly feel any player on the current Nuggets team will ever come close to anyone of the mentioned players I've mentioned ?

Quit kidding yourselves ... Once again, this is a star driven league. The Nuggets do not have one single star. Ill bet my house that they will never win a championship with their current makeup of players.


2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk
2010 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe
2009 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe
2008 - Boston Celtics - Big Three
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - Duncan
2006 - Miami Heat -Wade/Shaq
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - Defense (Exception)
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Duncan / Robinson
2002 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe/Shaq
2001 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe/Shaq
2000 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe/Shaq

KnickFanSince91
03-16-2012, 01:30 PM
I have noticed its mostly NY fans hating throughout the thread so i will quote myself.



A team full of above average players would do a lot better than a team with

2 wannabe superstars
1 hyped up Asian
1 defender
1 shot happy, hard headed wannabe thug
and a whole bunch of players either rejected by other teams or unworthy of mentioning.


Ill take

Lawson - Miller
Afflalo - Rudy
Gallo - Chandler
Faried - Harrington
McGee - Mozgov

over

Lin - Davis
Fields - Smith
Melo - Novak
A'mare - Jeffries
Chandler - ???

any day of the week

Well if you quote yourself and say it twice, it must be true.

The bottom line is Denver put together a nice squad that should be exciting to watch, but any honest basketball fan will tell you that's not a roster that will contend for an NBA championship. It's not "hate" to allude to the fact that they don't play defense so it will be interesting to see how their approach will succeed in the playoffs where D'Antoni's Suns teams (similar philosophy and parts) ultimately failed.

DenButsu
03-16-2012, 01:31 PM
Its really not much of a prediction, history is well on my side.

I feel no different about the Nuggets now than I did before the Melo trade. I am simply stating the facts. This team will never win a championship the way the NBA is currently set-up. They are the 8th seed in the west, its not like this team is made up of a bunch of rookies. Its primarily a veteran team with B level talent.

What is going to propel them to the next level ?

You may want to double check the Nuggets roster.


Jordan Hamilton 21
Kosta Koufos 22
Kenneth Faried 22
Julyan Stone 23
D. Gallinari 23
W. Chandler 24
Ty Lawson 24
JaVale McGee 24
Timofey Mozgov 25
Corey Brewer 25
Rudy Fernandez 26
Arron Afflalo 26
Al Harrington 31
Chris Andersen 33
Andre Miller 35

After the McGee trade and signing Chandler, they're probably one of the youngest teams in the league.

DenButsu
03-16-2012, 01:36 PM
So it's pretty much like this:

Any NBA fan: "The Nuggets did something good."

Knicks fan: "NOOOOO! The Knicks are BETTERRRRRR!!!!!"


(^Usually when the topic has nothing to do with the Knicks)

mudvayne387
03-16-2012, 01:46 PM
This is the NBA, you can be 23 years old and have played for 3+ seasons. They aren't rookies , they aren't sophomores, then what are they ? Veterans...



You may want to double check the Nuggets roster.


Jordan Hamilton 21
Kosta Koufos 22
Kenneth Faried 22
Julyan Stone 23
D. Gallinari 23
W. Chandler 24
Ty Lawson 24
JaVale McGee 24
Timofey Mozgov 25
Corey Brewer 25
Rudy Fernandez 26
Arron Afflalo 26
Al Harrington 31
Chris Andersen 33
Andre Miller 35

After the McGee trade and signing Chandler, they're probably one of the youngest teams in the league.

mudvayne387
03-16-2012, 01:52 PM
And recheck those stats, they end up having one of the older rosters in the NBA.

And no I didn't exlude Harrington or Miller, they are part of their roster !

DenButsu
03-16-2012, 01:56 PM
This is the NBA, you can be 23 years old and have played for 3+ seasons. They aren't rookies , they aren't sophomores, then what are they ? Veterans...

Wow, you're really splitting hairs, dude. All of those players are still young, improving and developing their games. That's the freakin point. Sheesh.

I really don't ****ing get what so many people have against a team attempting to have some success with a solid, balanced roster (as Karl puts it, atop 10 player at every position) but no cream of the crop elite superstars. Where the **** does the resentment against that come from?

It's almost like an insecurity that if we don't validate the importance of your stars, then it's something akin to a slap in the face to your team.

No, it's just a different approach. Instead of saying things such as that your prediction is a fact, why not actually be patient, see what happens, see if the Nuggs can have success with this strategy or not.

DenButsu
03-16-2012, 02:01 PM
And recheck those stats, they end up having one of the older rosters in the NBA.

And no I didn't exlude Harrington or Miller, they are part of their roster !

You're really just trolling now.

80% of their roster is 26 years of age or younger. Over half the roster is 24 or younger. If you want to say that the presence of 3 old dudes on that team makes it "one of the oldest in the league" because their ages average out to x amount and it helps you sleep better at night, then don't fight the feeling, I guess.

rhymeratic
03-16-2012, 02:07 PM
That lineup looks great in NBA 2k12.. but that lineup don't win Championships...

BallIsAll
03-16-2012, 02:16 PM
That lineup looks great in NBA 2k12.. but that lineup don't win Championships...

Same could be said of the Knicks lineup, except they might not even be good for the playoffs.

monzternipz12
03-16-2012, 02:28 PM
Agree with everyone saying its a good roster, but not championship caliber. But mad props to the GM. Took a bad situation and came out on top.

waveycrockett
03-16-2012, 02:31 PM
Agree with everyone saying its a good roster, but not championship caliber. But mad props to the GM. Took a bad situation and came out on top.

Lets see what they look like with Wilson Chandler and Javalee McGee. I think they are going to be legit.

monzternipz12
03-16-2012, 02:37 PM
I like chandler. He's solid. And although javale can make some boneheaded plays, his skillset is too rare to pass up I think. If he matures, look out.

BGeer091
03-16-2012, 02:39 PM
As a Knick fan i'm jealous! As are alot of my fellow Knicks fans. Denver is pretty much what we wanted to get last year. We wanted to get McGee, and draft Faried. I'm not saying all of my fellow Knicks fans wanted that but id say a majority. While having Gallo, Ill Will, and Mozgov...

I say great job Denver. While they will never ever be my favorite team, I do follow them alot! I enjoy the way they play. I like what that front office has done. Im not bashing my front office either. I like what both front offices have done lol.

Great job Denver and good luck to all of their fans :-)

mudvayne387
03-16-2012, 02:46 PM
You're really just trolling now.

80% of their roster is 26 years of age or younger. Over half the roster is 24 or younger. If you want to say that the presence of 3 old dudes on that team makes it "one of the oldest in the league" because their ages average out to x amount and it helps you sleep better at night, then don't fight the feeling, I guess.

Its not trolling, its having a debate about sports. Thats what this site is for, I for one thoroughly enjoy keeping homer fans like you in check :)

d nuggets fan
03-16-2012, 03:28 PM
Genius is a little over the top, but nice moves. Solid core and flexibility. Still fun basketball to watch. Can't wait to see what they do with all those draft picks too!!!

5ass
03-16-2012, 03:44 PM
Im hoping with the addition of Mcgee and resigning Chandler their defense improves a bit.

JEDean89
03-16-2012, 04:00 PM
the nuggs now have a chance to make a move for a superstar and still have the deepest team in the league. i don't know what league you guys have been watching, but i watch every knicks and every nuggets game. the nuggets are by far the more fun team to watch, and are much closer to a championship then the knicks. the knicks can work on being a playoff team first, then talk to me about the importance of having multiple "superstars". i love melo and i love amare, but they aren't winning games and they have had the easiest schedule in the league. the nuggets are in the toughest division in the league and are doing well. they can trade there many assets that are of no value to them anymore (brewer, hamilton, harrington, birdman, koufus, fernandez and there stockpile of picks) for a chance at getting a lottery pick in this years stacked draft. gallo is a fringe all star, so is lawson. afflalo can be a good third option and chandler is better than nene at every aspect of the game. they are young despite some of the bonehead comments i've read and they have cap flexibility. if they can't go too far with this core, guess what? they can do something about it. the knicks? if there roster isn't enough? who is going to take on amare's contract? melo is more moveable but then what? back to square one with no draft picks. hate on the nuggs all you want but here are only 3 or 4 teams that can win a championship this year, for the rest of the teams, it's doing the best you can with what you got and masai has done a great job with what he has.

samus
03-16-2012, 07:40 PM
hey i dont get why the knicks fans are bashing the nuggets so much. there 8th seed "in the WEST!!!" not 9th seed struggling to make playoffs in the East!!! your the laughing stock of the nba especially if you dont make playoffs
:facepalm:

haha denver are a 1+1/2 game off 4th seed your 4 +1/2 off 7th seed...

i have this feeling there may be jealousy among knicks fans so dont worry
Den Butsu these guys will always have a chip on there shoulder. its what happens when you have a team that continues to disappoint

anywhooo

im not sure ive seen a team as deep as this but i question your post scoring? nuggets might need another year i recon but ill be rooting for them and watching there games in the playoffs.

samus
03-16-2012, 07:46 PM
Its not trolling, its having a debate about sports. Thats what this site is for, I for one thoroughly enjoy keeping homer fans like you in check :)

well your debating skills suck. you sound like a 9 year old girl whose lost the argument but will continue argueing anyways.

mudvayne387
03-16-2012, 07:52 PM
well your debating skills suck. you sound like a 9 year old girl whose lost the argument but will continue argueing anyways.

Hahaha

Coming from a Miami fan , a city made up of retired people and illegal immigrants...

You probably didn't even know what basketball was until the big 2 1/2 were formed.

BallIsAll
03-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Hahaha

Coming from a Miami fan , a city made up of retired people and illegal immigrants... How'd you guys make out in the finals last year ?

Your obviously hurt

samus
03-16-2012, 08:01 PM
@mudvayne

i dont no what your trying to say. i doubt you no either

started watchng Miami n 2007 and after big 2 and i watch 76ers games

no your place

DenButsu
03-16-2012, 08:48 PM
Its not trolling, its having a debate about sports. Thats what this site is for, I for one thoroughly enjoy keeping homer fans like you in check :)

:rolleyes:

When you bend over backwards to make ridiculous arguments (the Nuggets are one of the oldest teams in the league) or silly assertions (it's a fact that my prediction is true) because you don't really have any legit points to make but you basically want to say "Your team sucks!" -- that's trolling.


Anyhow, I was getting irritated before, don't want to be making blanket statements about all NYK fans. The ones I know better here (SI, giaps, Broadway Joe, etc.) are good people and I'm sure that's the case for most of you guys. But that certain percentage is really aggro (it was a real problem in the Nuggs forum during the Melo crap). So my patience tends to get a little strained.


--------------------------------------------------
Anyhow, more to the point and on topic, to all of those saying this team isn't designed to win championships, you really don't understand what the Nuggets are doing.

The Nuggets front office has no illusions about winning a championship this season. And that's exactly why they pulled this trade. That's the entire point. If you think that it would be absurd for the Nuggets to think they've built a ready-to-go contender by doing this trade, you're right.

But that's not what they think.

They know they're in a transitional, rebuilding phase, and that's why they felt this was a season they could afford to shake the tree. If they thought they were in contention for a ring, do you think they would have traded Nene? What sense would that make?

All of this is about setting things up for the future.

But don't take my word for it. Here's Masai Ujiri himself (http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/ujiri_transcript_03_16_2012.html), some of what he said at the presser announcing the trade:


Transcript: Nuggets executive VP of basketball ops Masai Ujiri


General Statement
"We are excited. We felt that we needed someone athletic, somebody that can protect the paint a little bit. We’re happy, we’re happy that we were able to get JaVale McGee. He just turned 24 years old. We know it’s the last year of his deal coming up this summer. We felt that rather than doing something this summer, we felt that we wanted to see him for a couple of months on our roster and then we can really evaluate his talent. I think if there is a year where you want to experiment a little bit I think this is the year.

"It has been plenty of ups-and-downs, injuries, and all the factors that have gone into the up-and-down season. During the year where we had a few guys injured, a few of our young guys got to play and we got to see some of the upside that we can have and some of the excitement that they bring, what we’re kind of looking for and what kind of inspired the organization.

"Josh [Kroenke] and I had been talking about it for a while - maybe to go younger and try and build. This opportunity came and we know sometimes you have to do drastic things like this, but we felt that if we had waited maybe we lose this player in the summer, so we decided to jump on it now." "It’s a very tough day for, I know, the Kroenkes (and) the organization. This deal came kind of out of the blue, but it is something we thought about and the big picture of things going forward. We have to compete with those other teams, athletically; this player gives us this opportunity.


On whether the Nuggets are concerned about making a big move in the midst of a playoff run:
“Yes we are. But it is during year when we can afford to do that. Young guys, throw them in and go out and play and maybe get your face kicked a little bit but get some experience and then we know who they are. This is a year that we can afford to do that. We didn’t do it in the intention of not making the playoffs. We did it with the intention of big picture, make the team better and that’s kind of how we feel.”


On Kenneth Faried’s play being an influencing decision:
“It was a factor. We felt like it was some of his play there that gave us confidence. Faried can play the game and contribute. When we look at JaVale McGee, he is a young player; it is almost how we looked at [Danilo] Gallinari and a couple of the guys that we got in the trade last year. They are young but they got a couple years of NBA experience, so we can build from that and teach them our culture; they can play under a great system with George Karl. Historically, guys that come here get better and if we look at the progress that [Kosta] Koufos and [Timofey] Mozgov, even if it is this little, that they have made from last year to this year we can’t wait to see what progress JaVale McGee will make in a year, even if it is that little with a player that is that athletic and that big that likes to run the floor and will protect the rim. I think we will see a good player.”


On the confidence of “taming” McGee:
“One-hundred percent. We have done our homework. We have talked to tons of people. And we all do crazy stuff, and I think he will grow up. I think he is really excited about the new opportunity to come here and come play on a team that runs, that plays a style that he likes, and just a new home.”


On how this affects cap space:
“Going forward, yes we saved some money, but we did it for the talent and going into the summer, obviously McGee is going to be free so we will have to figure that out. Next year is Ty Lawson’s year or Mozgov’s year going forward so good flexibility is what I think we got with our team.”