PDA

View Full Version : What happened to the shooting guard position?



ddent12
03-15-2012, 05:06 AM
Lets give the trade talk a break.

What has happened to the "True" shooting guard position. I can't even name half the shooting guards on most of the teams. What defines a shooting guard? Back in the 90's each team had a solid player in that position. Reggie, Starks, Hornecek, Clyde, A. houston, Ray Allen. Now a days we got this combo guard situation going on. Did we loose our atheletic 6'-6' guys to the football wide receiver position?

Chime in ...........

PistonsFan14
03-15-2012, 05:08 AM
I agree. Kobe, Wade and Rip Hamilton come to mind for current guys. Ray Allen as well that you mention, but that breed does seem to be fading away.

We now have 6'3 "combo guards". Monta Ellis, Eric Gordon, ect..

Even Tyreke Evans who is 6'6 doesn't play like a pure SG. Combo Guard for sure.

krrys11
03-15-2012, 05:16 AM
There is still Kobe, Wade, Allen, Harden.
But many teams are looking more and more into combo guards, Monta Ellis, Stuckey.

ddent12
03-15-2012, 05:19 AM
The shooting guard suppose to move without the ball, and free himself for the open shot. Now a days everybody wants the ball in their hands. Even Wade and Kobe are starting to change. In fact they have, due to not having a true point guard on their team.

Bruno
03-15-2012, 05:29 AM
hm. probably because there are a lot of guys between 6'2-6'4 who should have been PGs, who grew up watching and wanting to be MJ. That's where we see this combo guard thing come from IMO. Those guys should have been studying tape of Stockton, but everyone wants to be like Mike.

as far as the 6'5-6'7 players who identify as SGs, I think we have just as many as there were in the 90's. it just doesn't seem so because of how many combo guards there are.

Since 2000: Bryant, Wade, Ginobli, Roy, Allen, McGrady, Carter, J. Johnson, Harden, Kevin Martin, Hamilton. I'd say that holds up well with any era of SG's. you could argue that two of the top three all time are from this generation. at the very worst, two of the top four.

ddent12
03-15-2012, 05:51 AM
Here's somthing to laugh at .... How many shooting guards can actually catch and shoot or have a mid range game?

JJ_JKidd
03-15-2012, 05:54 AM
Combo guards abound.. Not even a true pass-first PG nowadays :(

faridk89
03-15-2012, 06:02 AM
Combo guards abound.. Not even a true pass-first PG nowadays :(

truth

Bruno
03-15-2012, 06:08 AM
Combo guards abound.. Not even a true pass-first PG nowadays :(


truth

Rondo? Nash? Kidd? Calderon?

kblo247
03-15-2012, 06:09 AM
Kobe out lasted all those mother****ers is what happened lol

That was the glory position back in 05 with Kobe, Iverson, McGrady, Allen, Rip, Manu, Vince, Joe, and a blossoming Wade. Hell Pierce when he was younger was getting some time in there and doing work.

tcav701
03-15-2012, 06:19 AM
Shoot first PGs and isolation basketball happened.

abe_froman
03-15-2012, 06:19 AM
i think wistfulness has gotten the better of the op and posters in this thread, highlight the good but ignore the bad ones .not everyone had a mj or reggie

and to the people *****ing about high scoring pg's ,you clearly dont remember the 90's( kj,timmy,penny anyone?)

i guess the past was "uglier" than you choose to remember

Yunqn
03-15-2012, 06:21 AM
hm. probably because there are a lot of guys between 6'2-6'4 who should have been PGs, who grew up watching and wanting to be MJ. That's where we see this combo guard thing come from IMO. Those guys should have been studying tape of Stockton, but everyone wants to be like Mike.

as far as the 6'5-6'7 players who identify as SGs, I think we have just as many as there were in the 90's. it just doesn't seem so because of how many combo guards there are.

Since 2000: Bryant, Wade, Ginobli, Roy, Allen, McGrady, Carter, J. Johnson, Harden, Kevin Martin, Hamilton. I'd say that holds up well with any era of SG's. you could argue that two of the top three all time are from this generation. at the very worst, two of the top four.


harden came way late.. but crazy how you leave out iverson ..
martin was never really talked about because he was injured almost everyday..

it was

kobe,iverson,mcgrady,carter,wade,allen,ginobli,roy ,hamilton,joe johnson,michael redd,roy,michael finley,jason richardson,kevin martin i guess, but even jason terry when he was with atl.. even ben gordon & etc..


the shooting guard slot was loaded.. im forgetting so many other names.. im just trying to remember the great 2's from the 2000s til now off the head..


i use to make my created player in nba live a shooting guard all the time..

Yunqn
03-15-2012, 06:22 AM
i can understand why the center spot has fallen..

oden:injured, bynum:injured, bogut:injured, yao:retired, shaq:retired, wallace:retiring lopez:lazy and kaman had potiential and the talent but just was in the wrong situation and didnt get it mentally..

but really the game moved to small ball and then it never came back.. its slowly coming back though.. talented bigs dont want to be superstars and be two way players.. theres no more dominate 2 way guys like duncan, garnett& even rasheed wallace..just guys that want to be cute and shoot and do nothing else..see lopez

but the center spot isnt as weak as people think.. its a deep position its just the guys who were suppose to be among the best arent playing nightly so the guys like noah and gasol are among the top by default..

KnicksorBust
03-15-2012, 06:24 AM
Forget shooting guards. 90s Centers >>>>>>>>>>>>> Today's Centers

For some reason there are a million good PGs in this generation though.

kblo247
03-15-2012, 06:25 AM
harden came way late.. but crazy how you leave out iverson ..
martin was never really talked about because he was injured almost everyday..

it was

kobe,iverson,mcgrady,carter,wade,allen,ginobli,roy ,hamilton,joe johnson,michael redd,roy,michael finley,jason richardson,kevin martin i guess, but even jason terry when he was with atl.. even ben gordon & etc..


the shooting guard slot was loaded.. im forgetting so many other names.. im just trying to remember the great 2's from the 2000s til now off the head..


i use to make my created player in nba live a shooting guard all the time..

Don't forget that Mobley had some damn good years with Francis and that Eddie Jones was also a baller

koreancabbage
03-15-2012, 07:06 AM
harden came way late.. but crazy how you leave out iverson ..
martin was never really talked about because he was injured almost everyday..

it was

kobe,iverson,mcgrady,carter,wade,allen,ginobli,roy ,hamilton,joe johnson,michael redd,roy,michael finley,jason richardson,kevin martin i guess, but even jason terry when he was with atl.. even ben gordon & etc..


the shooting guard slot was loaded.. im forgetting so many other names.. im just trying to remember the great 2's from the 2000s til now off the head..


i use to make my created player in nba live a shooting guard all the time..

i dunno about Iverson, he had the ball in his hand 90% of the time and he created plays for everyone else, he was a combo guard, but one of the best.

JJ_JKidd
03-15-2012, 07:07 AM
Rondo? Nash? Kidd? Calderon?

Calderon the King of Dribbling? :confused:

RaiderLakersA's
03-15-2012, 10:51 AM
Shoot first PG's is what happened to the SG. As a result, the really good SG's decided that if they wanted to touch the ball at all, they'd better transition to combo guards.

Should we consider this evolution or a major step backwards as far as the game is concerned?

LAKobeBryant
03-15-2012, 10:53 AM
kevin martin is the closest thing i can think of right now for a true sg next to ray allen currently in the nba

AI4MVP
03-15-2012, 10:57 AM
it became the point guard position

Blitzbolt
03-15-2012, 11:08 AM
it became the point guard position

I agree Rose,Wesbrick and even Dwill are combo guards playing the point.

Is hard to find a true PG like Nash,CP3 or rubio now a days.

Da Knicks
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
I have seen a couple of youngins who im high on right now for the future- Marshon Brooks, Iman Shumpert, Harden, K. Leonard, Derozan, Afflalo, Mayo i still think if traded could flourish!

Raph12
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
Even if you count the guys playing the SG position, outside of Wade, Kobe, Manu, Harden, (I know I'm missing someone), the position is very weak... Weakest position in the league and yes, that includes centers.

Baller1
03-15-2012, 11:22 AM
Even if you count the guys playing the SG position, outside of Wade, Kobe, Manu, Harden, (I know I'm missing someone), the position is very weak... Weakest position in the league and yes, that includes centers.

I don't know about that... But I guess it'd be a good argument. I still think the center position is lacking talent the most.

Raph12
03-15-2012, 11:31 AM
I don't know about that... But I guess it'd be a good argument. I still think the center position is lacking talent the most.

What I posted in a different thread:


Noah is overrated and Horford is a PF... Like I said, Dwight stands above them all; then you got Big Al, Bynum, Monroe, Cousins, MGasol, Hibbert, BLopez, Gortat, Chandler and possibly Pekovic (have to see how he plays for the rest of the season) all have a case for #2-10.

PS: For everyone talking about how weak the center position is; it seems pretty strong when compared to the SG position;

1. Wade
2. Kobe
(dropoff)

3. Ginobli
4. Harden
(dropoff)

5. Monta
6. Iggy
7. KMart
8. JoeJohnson
9. Tyreke
10. Rayray?

After that second dropoff there is a significant difference between the #5 player (Monta) and those listed before him. Each and every center I listed (and a couple of "hon. mentions" I left out) are putting up better numbers than all of the SGs listed after James Harden... Looks like we found our new, weakest position; ladies and gentlemen, the SG.

From 5th and on, if you're talking numbers, the centers have the SGs beat easily... Easily.

sp1derm00
03-15-2012, 11:39 AM
Kobe, Wade, Harden, Manu, Iguodala, Ray, JJ, Kmart, JR Smith, Marshon Brooks, Landry Fields...

Not sure if Wade counts as a true SG as he's 6'4, but he's got a huuuuge wingspan which basically puts him on the level of the 6'5/6'6 SG's.

What's interesting is that before MJ changed the position forever, 6'3/6'4 guards like Monta Ellis were a lot more common at the SG position.

Baller1
03-15-2012, 11:43 AM
What I posted in a different thread:



From 5th and on, if you're talking numbers, the centers have the SGs beat easily... Easily.

It's tough to compare numbers of different positions though, but I guess I can get on board with SG's being the weakest position. It's really hard to judge because it's impossible to figure who is even a shooting guard these days. As far as finding star power with pure SG's, they're almost extinct it seems.

I'd say there's two elite centers, and two elite SG's as of now. But I think Manu can be considered elite if he could just stay healthy, and Harden is rapidly approaching that territory. Meanwhile, I think after Bynum and Dwight, there's no center even sniffing elite territory.

I don't know, it makes for a good argument, that's for sure.

Baller1
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
Kobe, Wade, Harden, Manu, Iguodala, Ray, JJ, Kmart, JR Smith, Marshon Brooks, Landry Fields...

Not sure if Wade counts as a true SG as he's 6'4, but he's got a huuuuge wingspan which basically puts him on the level of the 6'5/6'6 SG's.

What's interesting is that before MJ changed the position forever, 6'3/6'4 guards like Monta Ellis were a lot more common at the SG position.

Wade is a definitely a SG, 100%.

sp1derm00
03-15-2012, 11:46 AM
Wade is a definitely a SG, 100%.

Yea, he has the size, length, and strength of the taller guards thanks to his build. He also plays like a SG, able to play off the ball. I counted him in because of that despite him coming in the league as a combo guard.

Master Mind
03-15-2012, 11:48 AM
The game has evolved. PGs are more valuable than bigs now, sad but true.

PrettyBoyJ
03-15-2012, 11:52 AM
I think ppl jus stop growing up to 6'6 lol idk but a lot of 6'6 players end up playing out of position in college if they don't go to a big time school, then end up playing TE on the football team

Baller1
03-15-2012, 11:54 AM
Yea, he has the size, length, and strength of the taller guards thanks to his build. He also plays like a SG, able to play off the ball. I counted him in because of that despite him coming in the league as a combo guard.

Yeah, while he's definitely got the skills and abilities to be a combo guard, he's widely considered a SG; and rightfully so.

WaltonSystem
03-15-2012, 11:54 AM
It's like people forgot about Ginobli in here on there lists as well..




Which leads me to my question.

How many teams since 1996 have won an NBA Championship with one of these combo 6'3-'6'4 guards? (assuming D-Wade doesn't fit this mold but is a true SG)

**Does having a true SG give you an edge as a contender?**

Raph12
03-15-2012, 11:54 AM
It's tough to compare numbers of different positions though, but I guess I can get on board with SG's being the weakest position. It's really hard to judge because it's impossible to figure who is even a shooting guard these days. As far as finding star power with pure SG's, they're almost extinct it seems.

I'd say there's two elite centers, and two elite SG's as of now. But I think Manu can be considered elite if he could just stay healthy, and Harden is rapidly approaching that territory. Meanwhile, I think after Bynum and Dwight, there's no center even sniffing elite territory.

I don't know, it makes for a good argument, that's for sure.

I'd say Manu and Harden are on a lesser level than Wade and Kobe; with that being said, Bynum has been vastly overrated, Big Al Jefferson is playing just as well but hasn't gotten any credit because he doesn't play in LA next to Kobe... I'd say the SG position has more "top" guys (bigger elite class), but the center position has the better mean and median.

Baller1
03-15-2012, 12:02 PM
I'd say Manu and Harden are on a lesser level than Wade and Kobe; with that being said, Bynum has been vastly overrated, Big Al Jefferson is playing just as well but hasn't gotten any credit because he doesn't play in LA next to Kobe... I'd say the SG position has more "top" guys (bigger elite class), but the center position has the better mean and median.

I whole-heatedly dislike Bynum, but I don't think you're giving him enough credit. He's been dominating this season, and I think it's because he's finally been consistently healthy. I fully consider him an elite center at this point.

celtNYpatsHeels
03-15-2012, 12:05 PM
guys are so athletic now that they are just as good at handling the ball.... hence combo guards.

Also i feel like noone works on their jumper and outside game. everyone just want to poster people in the lane. The high schoolers and 1 and done in college also doesnt allow for players to really develop before coming to the NBA

celtNYpatsHeels
03-15-2012, 12:07 PM
The game has evolved. PGs are more valuable than bigs now, sad but true.

Really? The last stud PG to win a ring was Isaiah Thomas

The Final Boss
03-15-2012, 12:08 PM
hm. probably because there are a lot of guys between 6'2-6'4 who should have been PGs, who grew up watching and wanting to be MJ. That's where we see this combo guard thing come from IMO. Those guys should have been studying tape of Stockton, but everyone wants to be like Mike.



Those people are referred to as clowns.

sp1derm00
03-15-2012, 12:18 PM
hm. probably because there are a lot of guys between 6'2-6'4 who should have been PGs, who grew up watching and wanting to be MJ. That's where we see this combo guard thing come from IMO. Those guys should have been studying tape of Stockton, but everyone wants to be like Mike.

as far as the 6'5-6'7 players who identify as SGs, I think we have just as many as there were in the 90's. it just doesn't seem so because of how many combo guards there are.

Since 2000: Bryant, Wade, Ginobli, Roy, Allen, McGrady, Carter, J. Johnson, Harden, Kevin Martin, Hamilton. I'd say that holds up well with any era of SG's. you could argue that two of the top three all time are from this generation. at the very worst, two of the top four.

Before MJ, not many SG's were 6'6+. 6'4 was a very common SG height back then.

sp1derm00
03-15-2012, 12:26 PM
I'd say Manu and Harden are on a lesser level than Wade and Kobe; with that being said, Bynum has been vastly overrated, Big Al Jefferson is playing just as well but hasn't gotten any credit because he doesn't play in LA next to Kobe... I'd say the SG position has more "top" guys (bigger elite class), but the center position has the better mean and median.

You are dead wrong.

Bynum outperforms Al Jefferson by a good margin...

Bynum gets 12.4 FGA/gm, scoring 18ppg.

Jefferson takes 17.2 FGA/gm to score 19ppg.

Bynum grabs 19.9% of all rebounds available. Jefferson grabs 16.4%.

Bynum is also a superior defender to Al Jefferson. He alters so many attempts per game and clogs up the lane better, being so huge.

The thing that impresses me the most about Bynum is his patience with his offense. He is maturing into a very smart player. Just by watching the two, you can see a difference in talent level.

KingPosey
03-15-2012, 12:39 PM
I'd say Manu and Harden are on a lesser level than Wade and Kobe; with that being said, Bynum has been vastly overrated, Big Al Jefferson is playing just as well but hasn't gotten any credit because he doesn't play in LA next to Kobe... I'd say the SG position has more "top" guys (bigger elite class), but the center position has the better mean and median.

He is playing pretty well, but he clearly isnt playing AS well. There is a chasm between their fg % and rebounding.

Pretty much if you dive into more advanced stats, its really not close. Thats not a knock of Big Al, he just isnt playing nearly on the same level.