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View Full Version : Derrick Rose a volume shooter vs top level talent



Bic Boi
03-13-2012, 08:01 AM
it seems that every time the bulls play either a top 5 team, or a talented NBA team(shumperts knicks) he has to take a ton of shots just to stat in the game:

against orlando: 6-22

against NY-12-29

milwalkee: 8-22

indiana: 5-16

sanantonio: 10-23

atlanta: 8-18

NY: 12-26

MIA: 11-28

BOS: 9-21

ORL: 7-18

against top level talent this season, he cant even hit 45% most of the itme

this means either 1 of 3 things:

he has the shot selection of j.r smith

he doesnt get the calls that a "superstar" should

the bulls need a second option desperately if the yhave any hope of beating the knicks,indiana or heat in a playoff series without having rose being exhausted

quade36
03-13-2012, 08:05 AM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha. I guess he sucks. Maybe the bulls should play john Lucas instead of him. Maybe the should bring back the goat mike James. Their chances might be better.

Hahahhahahaaaa

Silly thread

Btw you should add Milwaukee to this list. I am not sure the Knicks will even make the playoffs but the bulls based on your analysis would have a very hard time beating great teams like the bucks.

chi-townlove1
03-13-2012, 08:06 AM
Two and three sound about right

Bic Boi
03-13-2012, 08:14 AM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha. I guess he sucks. Maybe the bulls should play john Lucas instead of him. Maybe the should bring back the goat mike James. Their chances might be better.

Hahahhahahaaaa

Silly thread

Btw you should add Milwaukee to this list. I am not sure the Knicks will even make the playoffs but the bulls based on your analysis would have a very hard time beating great teams like the bucks.


of course not, but you have to admit, stats dont lie, he is just another monta ellis, he is far from a superstar, cant even play efficiently on top level talent

dont hate the op hate the facts

i presented facts, the thread isnt silly

quade36
03-13-2012, 08:21 AM
yes it is. Its obviously a hate thread and the fact that you researched this on a player you don't like means you have a lot of time on your hands. Look, Kobe Bryant is a career 45% FG shooter. Is he bad???

Also if you want to bash him, why don't you get his 4th quarter numbers against those teams? I mean you have already wasted your time researching some stats. Go all out.

Anyways, regardless of the ridiculous thread, its okay to have your thoughts. Its okay to believe the Bulls won't get past the first round. Its okay to think Derrick Rose sucks. That is your choice. A lot, if not most people would disagree. But again its your choice.

Also it is my opinion to say that you shouldn't include Milwaukee and NY in this thread if you were trying to prove a silly point. They aren't even close to elite teams. Just because they are hovering around the 8th seed doesn't mean they stand a chance against any good team.

Rndy
03-13-2012, 08:35 AM
Derrick Rose has to be aggressive for the Bulls to win. Whether he's making them Or Noah/Boozer are getting tip ins. It's really our best offense with out Rip and Deng.

justinnum1
03-13-2012, 08:39 AM
Derrick Rose has to be aggressive for the Bulls to win. Whether he's making them Or Noah/Boozer are getting tip ins. It's really our best offense with out Rip and Deng.

This...how many games have the bulls won when rose takes less than 15 shots?

tullyctn
03-13-2012, 08:45 AM
Derrick Rose has to be aggressive for the Bulls to win. Whether he's making them Or Noah/Boozer are getting tip ins. It's really our best offense with out Rip and Deng. http://www.bicidi.info/jpg1
Whether he's making them Or Noah/Boozer are getting tip ins.

jp611
03-13-2012, 08:47 AM
Troll thread :laugh:

monzternipz12
03-13-2012, 08:48 AM
I knew someone would make a thread about this. We're without deng, Hamilton, and Watson. Defenses are focused mainly on him and stopping his drives yet he still puts points on the board and involves his teammates. Yeah he puts up shots, but we're winning aren't we? Dumb thread.

justinnum1
03-13-2012, 08:51 AM
it seems that every time the bulls play either a top 5 team, or a talented NBA team(shumperts knicks) he has to take a ton of shots just to stat in the game:

against orlando: 6-22

against NY-12-29

milwalkee: 8-22

indiana: 5-16

sanantonio: 10-23

atlanta: 8-18

NY: 12-26

MIA: 11-28

BOS: 9-21

ORL: 7-18

against top level talent this season, he cant even hit 45% most of the itme

this means either 1 of 3 things:

he has the shot selection of j.r smith

he doesnt get the calls that a "superstar" should

the bulls need a second option desperately if the yhave any hope of beating the knicks,indiana or heat in a playoff series without having rose being exhausted
obvious troll thread...obvious

Rndy
03-13-2012, 08:51 AM
I knew someone would make a thread about this. We're without deng, Hamilton, and Watson. Defenses are focused mainly on him and stopping his drives yet he still puts points on the board and involves his teammates. Yeah he puts up shots, but we're winning aren't we? Dumb thread.

I'd be jealous to if a team the last two years keeps dominating injured. There isn't a team in the NBA that is good enough to withstand what the Bulls have had to go through.

LGhost
03-13-2012, 08:53 AM
Too quick to get comfortable, I call it a dupe

haggis
03-13-2012, 08:54 AM
:laugh2:

This is rich. Great stuff OP.

justinnum1
03-13-2012, 08:58 AM
I'd be jealous to if a team the last two years keeps dominating injured. There isn't a team in the NBA that is good enough to withstand what the Bulls have had to go through.

:confused: Why would anyone be jealous? who cares about the regular season

BULLSFAN0810
03-13-2012, 08:59 AM
it seems that every time the bulls play either a top 5 team, or a talented NBA team(shumperts knicks) he has to take a ton of shots just to stat in the game:

against orlando: 6-22

against NY-12-29

milwalkee: 8-22

indiana: 5-16

sanantonio: 10-23

atlanta: 8-18

NY: 12-26

MIA: 11-28

BOS: 9-21

ORL: 7-18

against top level talent this season, he cant even hit 45% most of the itme

this means either 1 of 3 things:

he has the shot selection of j.r smith

he doesnt get the calls that a "superstar" should

the bulls need a second option desperately if the yhave any hope of beating the knicks,indiana or heat in a playoff series without having rose being exhausted



You just answered it. He doesnt get the calls he should. This guy has to be team defended and he doesnt get hacked? Driving pass his man (REACH,HACK) the 2 help defenders(HACK,HACK)The Center(Block Attempt*potential HACK)

Rndy
03-13-2012, 09:01 AM
:confused: Why would anyone be jealous? who cares about the regular season

You do until it goes against your argument. Did you really just say that? Go through your posts and see if you care or not. The fact that you will spend hours in our forum during games show you obviously give a **** weirdo.

THE_G.O.A.T.
03-13-2012, 09:08 AM
I never thought about it, but you are right, I would trade last night's win for a better shooting percentage from D-Rose. In fact the Bulls should void his new contract, and so should adidas. I would rather Rose shoot better and not win one game this season! Thats what really matters damnit!

The Bulls are without two starters and the backup point guard and he still puts up 30, and more importantly the Bulls win again! And in the end thats all that should matter.

MVP...

Bulls_fan90
03-13-2012, 09:11 AM
:confused: Why would anyone be jealous? who cares about the regular season

You seem to care a fair bit. Keep seeing you in all our game threads. Trolololol.


Quality thread.

Rndy
03-13-2012, 09:12 AM
You seem to care a fair bit. Keep seeing you in all our game threads. Trolololol.


Quality thread.

Nope he doesn't care. Wait until the playoffs when he really cares he stays up for weeks and never leaves our forum.

ilstubirds
03-13-2012, 09:28 AM
Derrick's problem is that he is TOO respectful of the officials. You look around the league at some of the superstars that just complain about EVERYTHING, you don't get that with D-Rose; he shuts up and continues to play.

If he complained like LeBron and Kobe, who want EVERY call, he probably would start getting them. That's just not how he is. Until he learns that, he's gonna have some FG% struggles because they aren't giving him favorable MVP calls.

Maybe that's what you get from growing up in a tough neighborhood like Rose, you shutup and play. Did Kobe and LeBron come from the streets? I don't think so.

daricoliver
03-13-2012, 09:55 AM
Here is what people seem to forget about Rose. He does not give a **** about his stats. This is why you see him chucking up shots at the end of quarters from three quarter court. He cares about one thing and that is winning. When you have half of your starting line up out and you have only played a handful of games with them the whole season, he knows he has to score in order for them to win. This is why he has seemed to change his mindset from distributor to scorer. The beginning of the year when people were healthy, he was much closer to 20 and 10. Now he has gone to about 25 and 7. He has been tremendous during the fourth quarters of almost every game except just a couple. Dumb *** Thread

swirl54
03-13-2012, 09:57 AM
:confused: Why would anyone be jealous? who cares about the regular season

Regular season does matter.... Until the playoffs start. LOL

ichitownclowni
03-13-2012, 09:59 AM
Lol this is fun

turnaround3
03-13-2012, 09:59 AM
94% No.

One of the two yes votes is presumably OP.

Unnecessary poll is unnecessary.

monzternipz12
03-13-2012, 10:02 AM
Funny how ppl can't read sarcasm correctly.

Kuya_Clive
03-13-2012, 10:07 AM
it seems that every time the bulls play either a top 5 team, or a talented NBA team(shumperts knicks) he has to take a ton of shots just to stat in the game:

against orlando: 6-22

against NY-12-29

milwalkee: 8-22

indiana: 5-16

sanantonio: 10-23

atlanta: 8-18

NY: 12-26

MIA: 11-28

BOS: 9-21

ORL: 7-18

against top level talent this season, he cant even hit 45% most of the itme

this means either 1 of 3 things:

he has the shot selection of j.r smith

he doesnt get the calls that a "superstar" should

the bulls need a second option desperately if the yhave any hope of beating the knicks,indiana or heat in a playoff series without having rose being exhausted

You mad the Bulls beat your teams or something

LongIslandIcedZ
03-13-2012, 10:07 AM
This is why you cant just look at numbers and judge. At first glance they look like volume shooter, but their not, the dude is a stud and a top level talent. If he could improve his jumper and his on ball D I think he'll have reached success at success at success #kobesystem

pacofunk64
03-13-2012, 10:10 AM
Ya this just doesn't have any legs to it. Look at other players like Iverson (career 41% shooter), Bryant (career 45% shooter), heck even Westbrook takes more shots than Rose per game and he has a legit #1.

celtNYpatsHeels
03-13-2012, 10:21 AM
I have been saying this going on three years now. Rose is a chucker. That doesnt mean I think he sucks.... I mean look at Kobe. Some players can get away with it, others cant. I think the rebounding ability and overall depth of the Bulls team allows for Rose to take so many shots and get away with it. But this is part of the reason why I think Rose is so overrated. Ive always said, with Rose taking 25 shots per game (esp if he makes 10 or less) the Bulls will not win a championship.

Nice win for the Bulls last night though... Quiet double double from Gibson. He played great

Kashmir13579
03-13-2012, 10:22 AM
He's no more efficient than Monta or 'Melo. But he is constantly driving, callapsing the defense, kicking it to the open man, and other great things. I'm done hating on Rose. The kid is the real deal.

Sinestro
03-13-2012, 10:23 AM
Derrick Rose has to be aggressive for the Bulls to win. Whether he's making them Or Noah/Boozer are getting tip ins. It's really our best offense with out Rip and Deng.

Pretty much this although even as a Bulls fan Rose is far too happy shooting 3s

DaBUU
03-13-2012, 10:23 AM
Dont some of you guys get sick of trolling? Or is it your life's mission?

Kashmir13579
03-13-2012, 10:24 AM
Pretty much this although even as a Bulls fan Rose is far too happy shooting 3s

If hes open i want him taking it. I don't want him looking for the 3, but when it falls in his lap he might as well.

jp611
03-13-2012, 10:26 AM
Derrick Rose - TS% - .548
eFG% - .489

Monta Ellis - TS% - .516
eFG% - .469

Carmelo Anthony - TS% - .500
eFG% - .431

Yes, he is more efficient than Monta Ellis and Carmelo Anthony

Sinestro
03-13-2012, 10:33 AM
If hes open i want him taking it. I don't want him looking for the 3, but when it falls in his lap he might as well.

I don't mind when he's open, it when he's cold and he's not open that he kind of needs to cut back on

rapjuicer06
03-13-2012, 10:36 AM
I think he is just a glorified Ellis...but I think Ellis is a stud as well. Rose is a glorified all-star which makes him a superstar.

The one thing I do not understand is everyone says if Rose doesn't do it, no one else on the Bulls will. Same goes for Ellis, while he doesn't win as much for the Warriors (doesn't have the supporting cast Rose has) he still is the heartbeat of the team and they wouldn't be in any game if it weren't for him. Rose is just better at it so Rose is a superstar while Ellis is a stud all-star. Again, just my opinion on it

Kashmir13579
03-13-2012, 10:36 AM
Derrick Rose - TS% - .548
eFG% - .489

Monta Ellis - TS% - .516
eFG% - .469

Carmelo Anthony - TS% - .500
eFG% - .431

Yes, he is more efficient than Monta Ellis and Carmelo Anthony

He is not more efficient than Monta Ellis and Carmelo have been in previous seasons.

Edit: Looking at the numbers it seems Monta is worse than i thought. :laugh2: he's still had 2 seasons of Derrick Rose-like efficiency.

beerman28
03-13-2012, 10:39 AM
This guy is obviously an idiot.. 4 post troll..

Kashmir13579
03-13-2012, 10:39 AM
I don't mind when he's open, it when he's cold and he's not open that he kind of needs to cut back on

I only see Rose play about 10-15 times a year so i can't speak to his shooting habits. We both agree that his open 3 isn't a problem.

DaBUU
03-13-2012, 10:47 AM
Derrick Rose has never been super-efficient. He's not the type of player that cares about his stats. He's taken a ton of half court heaves for example and if you factor those out of his %'s, his 3pt% would go from 31 to 34.5%.

I wish Derrick would concentrate more on his mid range jumpers. He used to have that part of his game down, now I feel like he's not as confident in his jumper as he once was. Everything is either a 3 or a floater or a difficult reverse layup.

Rose was 12/29 because those layups weren't falling for him yesterday. If they did fall, he would have been efficient. It was just a bad game for him. When Deng and Rip and CJ were healthy, Rose could hang back all game and only had to shoot like 13 times. You'd see stats like 6/13 from him all the time and you'd know this was a good game.

Bulls need to get healthy, thats it. Derrick doesn't WANT to shoot 30 times.

Fonz may be my favorite new poster here on PSD

Kashmir13579
03-13-2012, 10:48 AM
Derrick Rose has never been super-efficient. He's not the type of player that cares about his stats. He's taken a ton of half court heaves for example and if you factor those out of his %'s, his 3pt% would go from 31 to 34.5%.

I wish Derrick would concentrate more on his mid range jumpers. He used to have that part of his game down, now I feel like he's not as confident in his jumper as he once was. Everything is either a 3 or a floater or a difficult reverse layup.

Rose was 12/29 because those layups weren't falling for him yesterday. If they did fall, he would have been efficient. It was just a bad game for him. When Deng and Rip and CJ were healthy, Rose could hang back all game and only had to shoot like 13 times. You'd see stats like 6/13 from him all the time and you'd know this was a good game.

Bulls need to get healthy, thats it. Derrick doesn't WANT to shoot 30 times.

great post. With all the guys The bulls have out the line-up right now, defenses are paying more attention to Rose AND he needs to shoot more than he normally would.

thebet
03-13-2012, 10:53 AM
I have been saying this going on three years now. Rose is a chucker. That doesnt mean I think he sucks.... I mean look at Kobe. Some players can get away with it, others cant. I think the rebounding ability and overall depth of the Bulls team allows for Rose to take so many shots and get away with it. But this is part of the reason why I think Rose is so overrated. Ive always said, with Rose taking 25 shots per game (esp if he makes 10 or less) the Bulls will not win a championship.

Nice win for the Bulls last night though... Quiet double double from Gibson. He played great

I really cant wrap my head around this argument. How can anyone possibly think Derrick Rose is overrated. They don't just hand out MVP's.
(and there's a difference between chucking and getting to the basket) A lot of his "misses" are on fouls and missed layup tip-ins.

Kashmir13579
03-13-2012, 10:53 AM
But Derrick did actually raise his efficiency substantially this year before all the injuries hit. He was on his way to a 57% TS%, up two percentage points from last year. A product of the Bulls team offense getting better, overall.

I noticed that, too.

Blitzbolt
03-13-2012, 11:16 AM
Yay!!!! another Bulls topic just what we need :(

Baller1
03-13-2012, 11:17 AM
I will say this... He set his personal bar really high with his great season last year. That's not helping either. But that doesn't mean he's an inefficient player. This thread is bad news though so I'm just going up stay away.

He's a superstar, franchise player; simple as that.

Shmontaine
03-13-2012, 11:24 AM
Derrick Rose has never been super-efficient. He's not the type of player that cares about his stats. He's taken a ton of half court heaves for example and if you factor those out of his %'s, his 3pt% would go from 31 to 34.5%.

I wish Derrick would concentrate more on his mid range jumpers. He used to have that part of his game down, now I feel like he's not as confident in his jumper as he once was. Everything is either a 3 or a floater or a difficult reverse layup.

Rose was 12/29 because those layups weren't falling for him yesterday. If they did fall, he would have been efficient. It was just a bad game for him. When Deng and Rip and CJ were healthy, Rose could hang back all game and only had to shoot like 13 times. You'd see stats like 6/13 from him all the time and you'd know this was a good game.

Bulls need to get healthy, thats it. Derrick doesn't WANT to shoot 30 times.

i agree with this... except for the bolded...

teams are respecting his mid-range much more than they did his first two years... teams no longer sag off him and give him space as much as they used to... I see times where he just walked into a mid range and drains it, or gets a good pick and is left wide open for an easy jumper... maybe it's just me, though...

Chronz
03-13-2012, 11:35 AM
D-Rose has an Offensive RTG of 115 people, hes as efficient as Bron/Wade were last year, Bron has regained his Cleveland form now that he knows his teammates but that still elite.


He is not more efficient than Monta Ellis and Carmelo have been in previous seasons.

Edit: Looking at the numbers it seems Monta is worse than i thought. :laugh2: he's still had 2 seasons of Derrick Rose-like efficiency.

When?

Hawkeye15
03-13-2012, 12:03 PM
Rose has a simple rating of 11.1, right in the Gasol, Nash, Durant area. His offensive rating is 115, which is elite. Sure he may be forcing things a bit with his other scorers out on the perimeter, but to compare him to a Monta Ellis should be illegal.

Rose is a top 5-6 player.

MrfadeawayJB
03-13-2012, 12:30 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha. I guess he sucks. Maybe the bulls should play john Lucas instead of him. Maybe the should bring back the goat mike James. Their chances might be better.

Hahahhahahaaaa

Silly thread

Btw you should add Milwaukee to this list. I am not sure the Knicks will even make the playoffs but the bulls based on your analysis would have a very hard time beating great teams like the bucks.


this would work, book it

EYDI819
03-13-2012, 12:38 PM
Rose is the heart of the team. If he starts backing off on shots and not be aggressive, his team mates just dies down too. In order for the bulls to win, they feed off of Rose's aggressiveness. If Rose is not aggressive, Bulls are not aggressive. Simple as that. If he's not aggressive, who do you think will carry the team? I dont even consider him as a chucker just because he hasnt even shot more that 30 attempts. Kobe did it 5 times this year. Rose none.

effen5
03-13-2012, 01:00 PM
Strong thread backfire

justinnum1
03-13-2012, 01:03 PM
Strong thread backfire

it's a derrick rose thread in the nba forum...

no different than a lin thread or a lebron thread

lets just continue to ignore the facts and draw unsubstantiated opinions:)

ManRam
03-13-2012, 01:07 PM
It's all three. His shot selection is not as good as it could be. Deng is a nice #2 option, but not a great one. Luckily for the Bulls they have a lot more depth than any other team. Him not getting super star calls? Myth. Sometimes he does avoid contact though.

The common trend: they can win all these games when he's not shooting well. Their defense, their bench, their rebounding (last night especially) keep them in every game. They've shown they can win without him, and when he's off. This isn't a one man team, this is just a great overall TEAM...a team that plays the right way and does everything amazingly well.

ManRam
03-13-2012, 01:07 PM
But calling him a glorified Monta Ellis?? That's crazy. Monta couldn't hold his jock.

Patman
03-13-2012, 01:10 PM
Rose has a simple rating of 11.1, right in the Gasol, Nash, Durant area. His offensive rating is 115, which is elite. Sure he may be forcing things a bit with his other scorers out on the perimeter, but to compare him to a Monta Ellis should be illegal.

Rose is a top 5-6 player.

Yeah he is pretty efficient for a guy with a USG% of 30 and a PG at that. Rose collapses the opposing defense regularly and finds the open man or can finish it, his 8 APG and 40 Assist percentage are more then decent.

I agree that he's forcing it a bit, but that's understandable if you take a look at the injuries on the bulls, like you said. The only PG that i would really put over Rose at the moment is Pau,l the guy is just unreal.

Hustlenomics
03-13-2012, 01:14 PM
This...how many games have the bulls won when rose takes less than 15 shots?

they just beat Utah with him taking 13 shots and getting 13 assists

Raph12
03-13-2012, 01:16 PM
He's not Monta, but he's definitely a volume scorer against good defensive teams... He's young, he'll learn to be more efficient as the years go by.

ManRam
03-13-2012, 01:21 PM
This...how many games have the bulls won when rose takes less than 15 shots?

Under 15 shots, they are 8-1 if my counting skills are correct.

6-1 if you don't count those two games in early February where he was kinda banged up and only played 11 and 22 minutes respectively.

15-4 if you include games he didn't play at all (so, technically 0 shots...or less than 15 shots regardless of whether he played/how many minutes).

However, they are also 11-2 when he shoots it 20+ times. SO I don't know if there's really a correlation between Rose's shot attempts and the Bulls success.

justinnum1
03-13-2012, 01:27 PM
true...i was just trying to say that his team needs him to take more shots for them to succeed, but based on those numbers^ i guess it doesn't really matter

AceMan
03-13-2012, 01:30 PM
Oh my god PSD is the most ****ing jaded cynical site on the whole internet. This is clearly NOT a troll thread. Know why? The guy is presenting a reasonable argument backed up by stats. Rather than just laughing at him and calling him a troll maybe you should go find stats to dispute what he is saying. Other than the last sentence everything the OP said is true.

LongIslandIcedZ
03-13-2012, 01:31 PM
The way the team is set up, kind of reminds me of the Iverson Sixers back in the day. Not they are neccessarily similar players, but the team is designed around his style of offense. He's got a bunch of solid defenders around him that hold down the fort while he torches the opposing defense. I have never been much of a fan of Rose, but the dude is a stud and a top player in the league. He just hasnt acheived success at success at success. #kobesystem

Raph12
03-13-2012, 01:33 PM
Under 15 shots, they are 8-1 if my counting skills are correct.

6-1 if you don't count those two games in early February where he was kinda banged up and only played 11 and 22 minutes respectively.

15-4 if you include games he didn't play at all (so, technically 0 shots...or less than 15 shots regardless of whether he played/how many minutes).

However, they are also 11-2 when he shoots it 20+ times. SO I don't know if there's really a correlation between Rose's shot attempts and the Bulls success.

And BOOM goes the dynamite... There isn't a noticable correlation between Rose's shot attempts and the Bulls success, because they win games with their defense, not their offense.

uptown0364
03-13-2012, 01:49 PM
Oh my god PSD is the most ****ing jaded cynical site on the whole internet. This is clearly NOT a troll thread. Know why? The guy is presenting a reasonable argument backed up by stats. Rather than just laughing at him and calling him a troll maybe you should go find stats to dispute what he is saying. Other than the last sentence everything the OP said is true.

Derrick Rose's PER (Player Efficiency Rating) this year is 24.88. If he were to finish his career with a 24.88 PER he would finish 9th all time and 4th among guards ALL TIME......I think I'll take that for a team that is currently 35-9 and 1st overall in the NBA

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

ManRam
03-13-2012, 01:52 PM
And BOOM goes the dynamite... There isn't a noticable correlation between Rose's shot attempts and the Bulls success, because they win games with their defense, not their offense.

I agree. Their defense and their rebounding are what makes them the best. That's greater than any single player's impact.

Kashmir13579
03-13-2012, 01:53 PM
Chronz, i guess i just wasn't paying attention. Rose's offensive rating is better than 'Melo's has really ever been. My mistake was making an assumption based off FGA and %s.

CubZwin38
03-13-2012, 01:56 PM
We often say stuff like, "Do you even watch games?" and this one of the few times where it is plainly obvious that the OPer does not.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-13-2012, 02:03 PM
derrick rose is better than monta ellis in every aspect of the game.

eddiev22
03-13-2012, 02:19 PM
Another Derrick Rose hater... must be from Miami or NewYork, half the team has been hurt all season, he has no choice but to shoot, even after being doubled teamed, who else is going to shoot the ball? Lucas? hey Bulls got the best record in the NBA, as long as the bulls keep winning he can take all the shots he wants.

chicago lulz
03-13-2012, 02:20 PM
And BOOM goes the dynamite... There isn't a noticable correlation between Rose's shot attempts and the Bulls success, because they win games with their defense, not their offense.


I agree. Their defense and their rebounding are what makes them the best. That's greater than any single player's impact.

Is there a stat that shows how many offensive rebounds are off of Rose's shots? You would have to think based on the statement, rebounding is an aspect that makes the Bulls who they are, and Rose being double teamed leaves a player open for that rebound. Anytime he drives he causes defense to collapse, allowing a teammate a better chance at nabbing a rebound. Bulls are ranked 2nd behind SAC in offensive rebounds.

I just don't agree the Bulls win solely on their defense. Especially since their offense improved from last year and the Bulls are ranked 6th offensively (I believe). That's not to take away from their defense, which is ranked 1st? Just saying their offense has helped a lot more this season compared to last.

Shmontaine
03-13-2012, 02:28 PM
Is there a stat that shows how many offensive rebounds are off of Rose's shots? You would have to think based on the statement, rebounding is an aspect that makes the Bulls who they are, and Rose being double teamed leaves a player open for that rebound. Anytime he drives he causes defense to collapse, allowing a teammate a better chance at nabbing a rebound. Bulls are ranked 2nd behind SAC in offensive rebounds.

I just don't agree the Bulls win solely on their defense. Especially since their offense improved from last year and the Bulls are ranked 6th offensively (I believe). That's not to take away from their defense, which is ranked 1st? Just saying their offense has helped a lot more this season compared to last.

stacey and neil always comment on how those drose misses are almost like assists, because he draws so much attention that the bigs can crash the boards regularly while their defender is helping on rose, creating easy put backs...

daricoliver
03-13-2012, 02:35 PM
Is there a stat that shows how many offensive rebounds are off of Rose's shots? You would have to think based on the statement, rebounding is an aspect that makes the Bulls who they are, and Rose being double teamed leaves a player open for that rebound. Anytime he drives he causes defense to collapse, allowing a teammate a better chance at nabbing a rebound. Bulls are ranked 2nd behind SAC in offensive rebounds.

I just don't agree the Bulls win solely on their defense. Especially since their offense improved from last year and the Bulls are ranked 6th offensively (I believe). That's not to take away from their defense, which is ranked 1st? Just saying their offense has helped a lot more this season compared to last.

There is something else important about Rose being double teamed and his ability to attack defenses differently this year. In the past, he was a Bull in a china shop and was still too big, too fast, and too good and would often score or get fouled (of which a good number were not called) This year, he is able to get double teamed and he is able to either score/get fouled or pass effectively out of them. This is the reason why Noahs assists have improved, especially in games where he is the release valve. There have been games where Brewer and Rip have had a good number of assists because of this. This in part explains why the Bulls are a much better offense. They move the ball exceptionally well and they are forced too, but it is predicated on Rose ability to break down the defense. If the Bulls had a legit number 2 option, can you imagine where his numbers would be. They would be unreal.

Revolu7i9n
03-13-2012, 02:36 PM
He just talked about how he's not getting enough calls. Went to the FT line less than 10 times last night despite living in the lane in the first half. Rocked the mid range game in the second half and still killed it.

72 Wins
03-13-2012, 02:55 PM
This is why you see him chucking up shots at the end of quarters from three quarter court.

Great point. I think last year there was a stat I found on how much better his shooting % would be if he didn't take these low % shots. Whereas you have other players in the league intentionally shooting the ball when they clearly know they clock has expired.

72 Wins
03-13-2012, 02:59 PM
Rose was 12/29 because those layups weren't falling for him yesterday. If they did fall, he would have been efficient.

THIS. People fail to recognize that many of the shots he's missed (that's contributed to his shooting %) over the last few games were missed layups. He's simply not getting the calls on those hard drives.

Blitzbolt
03-13-2012, 03:00 PM
Rose keeps crying to much first the Pacers game and now crying for calls I'm losing respect for him.

72 Wins
03-13-2012, 03:00 PM
Nice win for the Bulls last night though... Quiet double double from Gibson. He played great

I don't think it was quiet at all. ESPN was all over how Gibson was playing. I was thinking he had 30+ rebounds the way ESPN was hyping it.

72 Wins
03-13-2012, 03:02 PM
Rose keeps crying to much first the Pacers game and now crying for calls I'm losing respect for him.

"Crying too much?" Really? So you basically have no respect for the top tier players in the NBA? I think the vast consensus is that he is not crying ENOUGH.

Raph12
03-13-2012, 03:03 PM
^^^I'm not saying they "only" win because of their defense, I'm saying they rely on that defense moreso than the offense... Oh and you're right in saying that offensive rebounding plays a big part, they're #1 in the league in ORB%.

redwhitenblue
03-13-2012, 03:05 PM
^^^I'm not saying they "only" win because of their defense, I'm saying they rely on that defense moreso than the offense... Oh and you're right in saying that offensive rebounding plays a big part, they're #1 in the league in ORB%.
Well when you're a top 2 defense, you probably rely on that defense more. But they're no slouch offensively. They're much better than last year offensively.

Sactown
03-13-2012, 03:12 PM
Every Bulls fan knows that they need another player who can consistently create for others and more importantly for themselves.. when you only have Rose who can create his own shot, this is what happens, great defenses will make him force things and the result won't always be the best. They need a legit #2 option before they'll be able to compete with Miami.
Same reason Lebron couldn't get by the Celtics as a Cav. They just loaded up on him and made other players beat them, and they couldn't the only difference is Rose has some elite defenders and has a decent post scorer.

Shmontaine
03-13-2012, 03:13 PM
Well when you're a top 2 defense, you probably rely on that defense more. But they're no slouch offensively. They're much better than last year offensively.

#2 defense, #3 offense... all with rose scoring and shooting less than last year...

i think last year the bulls were somewhere like #11 or #12 offense...

justinnum1
03-13-2012, 03:14 PM
Every Bulls fan knows that they need another player who can consistently create for others and more importantly for themselves.. when you only have Rose who can create his own shot, this is what happens, great defenses will make him force things and the result won't always be the best. They need a legit #2 option before they'll be able to compete with Miami.
Same reason Lebron couldn't get by the Celtics as a Cav. They just loaded up on him and made other players beat them, and they couldn't the only difference is Rose has some elite defenders and has a decent post scorer.

everyone knows this but the bulls FO...they are putting a huge gamble on rip, and i dont see him being 100% healthy by the ECF..

Jabears85
03-13-2012, 03:14 PM
Trolll! such a troll thread

Meaze_Gibson
03-13-2012, 03:15 PM
it seems that every time the bulls play either a top 5 team, or a talented NBA team(shumperts knicks) he has to take a ton of shots just to stat in the game:

against orlando: 6-22

against NY-12-29

milwalkee: 8-22

indiana: 5-16

sanantonio: 10-23

atlanta: 8-18

NY: 12-26

MIA: 11-28

BOS: 9-21

ORL: 7-18

against top level talent this season, he cant even hit 45% most of the itme

this means either 1 of 3 things:

he has the shot selection of j.r smith

he doesnt get the calls that a "superstar" should

the bulls need a second option desperately if the yhave any hope of beating the knicks,indiana or heat in a playoff series without having rose being exhausted

you left off

lakers 9-13
clippers 8-14
philly 12-23
other milwaukee game 14-24
other indiana game 9-19
other philly game 8-17

jp611
03-13-2012, 03:17 PM
How is this thread even open still? It's clearly a bait thread

Raph12
03-13-2012, 03:17 PM
Well when you're a top 2 defense, you probably rely on that defense more. But they're no slouch offensively. They're much better than last year offensively.

Well they're all in great shape and they've kept the same core together. Not trying to take away from them, but the lockout has affected every team differently... But I do agree they're playing a better, more well-rounded offense.

justinnum1
03-13-2012, 03:19 PM
you left off

lakers 9-13
clippers 8-14
philly 12-23
other milwaukee game 14-24
other indiana game 9-19
other philly game 8-17

i wonder why he left those out :laugh2:

this thread is a big fail, next time do it for mēlo

Blitzbolt
03-13-2012, 03:19 PM
it seems that every time the bulls play either a top 5 team, or a talented NBA team(shumperts knicks) he has to take a ton of shots just to stat in the game:

against orlando: 6-22

against NY-12-29

milwalkee: 8-22

indiana: 5-16

sanantonio: 10-23

atlanta: 8-18

NY: 12-26

MIA: 11-28

BOS: 9-21

ORL: 7-18

against top level talent this season, he cant even hit 45% most of the itme

this means either 1 of 3 things:

he has the shot selection of j.r smith

he doesnt get the calls that a "superstar" should

the bulls need a second option desperately if the yhave any hope of beating the knicks,indiana or heat in a playoff series without having rose being exhausted

28 shots vs Miami is what pops out at me that's Kobe numbers way to many shots.

HrtHustleNMscle
03-13-2012, 03:20 PM
Honestly. this thread is clearly a bait thread. Bulls fans, we are better off ignoring some of these knuckleheads.

yoseppii12
03-13-2012, 03:22 PM
1. Rose is a PG-
They inherently should have worse shooting percentages then guys bigger than them. Look at the averages at each position I bet it gets progressively better as you get taller.

2. Volume Shooter- Yes but...
Makes a lot of crucial shots and has to be. When he first came into the league he was passive and literally forced by VDN and Bulls Management to shoot. Plus All those games where you say Rose shot a lot, who do you think should shoot instead?

3. What defines Top Level Talent?
Does All-Star appearances? Does MVPs? Does Wins? Does hitting game winning shots? Does hitting acrobatic shots?

Whats a top level talent? I am confused, name the top level talents in the league there's got to be at least 15 guys right?

HrtHustleNMscle
03-13-2012, 03:23 PM
#2 defense, #3 offense... all with rose scoring and shooting less than last year...

i think last year the bulls were somewhere like #11 or #12 offense...

not to mention all the injuries. But Thibs can only coach D, and I believe we are one of the highest assists teams as well, not sure on the number so I will not just throw one out there but I know we are near the top.

DaBear
03-13-2012, 03:29 PM
It's funny how the troll OP got owned in his own thread.

SchyGuy11
03-13-2012, 03:35 PM
Yeah no way he can be a superstar until he wins an MVP like Monte Ellis...

redwhitenblue
03-13-2012, 03:38 PM
Well they're all in great shape and they've kept the same core together. Not trying to take away from them, but the lockout has affected every team differently... But I do agree they're playing a better, more well-rounded offense.
They're all in great shape? They've had 60 missed games by starters? That was a ridiculous statement.


BTW, to the OP, what's the Bulls record in those games?

redwhitenblue
03-13-2012, 03:39 PM
28 shots vs Miami is what pops out at me that's Kobe numbers way to many shots.
No Deng in that game, and Rose failed on two FT's late to put the Bulls ahead, so they were in position to take that game with him shooting 28 shots.

Shmontaine
03-13-2012, 03:41 PM
not to mention all the injuries. But Thibs can only coach D, and I believe we are one of the highest assists teams as well, not sure on the number so I will not just throw one out there but I know we are near the top.

you are correct.. the bulls lead the league is assists per game... even with that ball hogging chucker drose...

slamfan4life
03-13-2012, 03:41 PM
When Rose's teammates are injured or just not getting it done he has no choice but to go off; btw he's avg 8apg so i dont think he's just a glorified chucker...

CudiOnMyiPod
03-13-2012, 04:02 PM
Every thread always has to specifically point out the Knicks in the original post. It gets so annoying. "A talented NBA team like Shumpert's Knicks" lol...

Raph12
03-13-2012, 04:03 PM
They're all in great shape? They've had 60 missed games by starters? That was a ridiculous statement.


BTW, to the OP, what's the Bulls record in those games?

They're in great physical shape, the injuries aren't stress-related, stamina is not an issue among the core players.