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View Full Version : Would you put Steve Nash in the top 4 MVP voting discussions if...



king4day
03-12-2012, 05:30 PM
1. The Suns finish the Season above .500
&
2. Make the playoffs

- Right now, Phoenix is playing its best basketball of the season, having won 7 of 10 and sitting only 2 games out of the playoffs (based on record alone).
- Nash is working with the least talented team he's played with since returning to Phoenix.

PG: Nash/Telfair/Price
SG: Dudley/Brown/Redd
SF: Hill/Childress
PF: Frye/Morris/Warrick
C: Gortat/Lopez

- Gortat is the only player that resembles an all-star for the Suns outside of Nash. The rest are role players (Dudley, Frye, Hill), rookies (Morris), or misfits (Brown, Telfair, Childress...pretty much everyone else).

- Nash is averaging 13.6pts and 11 assists with this group of players.

- Lastly, Nash leads the league in assists by 1 full assist. This means he is leading some of the least appealing names in the NBA to more success than most, including myself, could have imagined this year.

I'm not asking if he should win it because the award isn't given to players on bad teams. If we were a top 5 team in the league right now, there's no argument he would be the clear cut favorite simply because of his supporting cast he's surrounded with. Durant, Rose, and Lebron will be in the conversation to win the award (and should be) and I see no way Nash gets ahead of them.
But to see Nash amongst the finalists has to be a victory in itself.

Do you think that can happen?

nickdymez
03-12-2012, 05:32 PM
You have to have top 3 best records in the league for that I think.

King41
03-12-2012, 05:34 PM
Nash is a very good player love to see him, but no chance for the top 4 mvp

king4day
03-12-2012, 05:36 PM
I should have stated 4th in voting. Saying top 4 sounds too much like I'm asking if he could win or get 2nd or 3rd. I'm gonna leave it. Too late now.

Raph12
03-12-2012, 05:48 PM
1. Lebron
.
.
.
2. Durant
.
3. Dwight
4. Rose
5. CP3
.
6-to-Infinite. No chance

ManningToTyree
03-12-2012, 05:55 PM
I love Nash, but no way.

Lakeshow24KB
03-12-2012, 05:56 PM
1. Lebron
.
.
.
2. Durant
.
3. Dwight
4. Rose
5. CP3
.
6-to-Infinite. No chance

Hmmm....is the reason you have kobe out of that list because of his shot attempts?

llemon
03-12-2012, 05:57 PM
If Nash were still a 'go-to guy', I'd say yes.

But if Nash was still a 'go-to guy', Suns would have 10 more victories.

So I'll have to vote no.

KnicksorBust
03-12-2012, 05:58 PM
Sadly no. Do you, as a Suns fans, want to see him play out his twilight years with Dudley and Frye?

ManRam
03-12-2012, 05:59 PM
He's having a great season...and has nothing around him (for real nothing). I just don't think I could imagine that scenerio would be enough to put him over LeBron, Durant, Rose, Howard or Paul. Unless the Clippers keep sucking really bad, and some how the Suns finished with a better record than them...then maybe him over Paul.

I think the fact that most are aware that he's a liability defensively also hurts him. When he won these awards I think most voters cared a bit less...

An 8th seed might get him a 7th place vote or so...

Lake_Show2416
03-12-2012, 06:01 PM
No, team record matters, not necessarily to me but thats been the criteria the MVP voters have shown

king4day
03-12-2012, 06:03 PM
Sadly no. Do you, as a Suns fans, want to see him play out his twilight years with Dudley and Frye?

We've been fighting with this topic all year in the Suns forum.
The Suns go on a run of a few wins and we are all saying, 'ok let's see what this team can do'. Then we lose 4 straight and say, 'ok let's trade nash, tank, and draft high'.

I want him to win a ring but he doesn't want to leave.
The owner won't trade him.

So with that, if we're going to keep him, I'd rather see us play this year out, sign him for 2 more, and go after a gerald wallace, Batum, or eric gordon type this offseason.
We won't be elite with them but we'll compete. Then, who knows. Maybe we find a trade that snags us a superstar for a miracle run.

I didn't create this thread with a 'homer' mind.
This is a really bad team. "Hard to watch" bad. The fact that we may make the playoffs is a tribute to just how valuable this guy is.
He's the oldest PG ever to make the all-star game. The best part of that was, he deserved it.

ManRam
03-12-2012, 06:04 PM
There's no doubt that if he finishes in the top 10 that there will be no player there with as terrible of a supporting cast as what he has...

I still don't think he's having great enough of an individual season to get him above those 5 guys. He is having a tremendous year, and I think it gets lost a bit, but top 4 would be pushing it...unless they finished a good amount above .500.

king4day
03-12-2012, 06:17 PM
There's no doubt that if he finishes in the top 10 that there will be no player there with as terrible of a supporting cast as what he has...

I still don't think he's having great enough of an individual season to get him above those 5 guys. He is having a tremendous year, and I think it gets lost a bit, but top 4 would be pushing it...unless they finished a good amount above .500.

Nice post. Good argument.

It's surreal that he's still doing this for so long. What could have been.

Raph12
03-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Hmmm....is the reason you have kobe out of that list because of his shot attempts?

Record, shot attempts, declining efficiency, Bynum's emergence and Pau's continued strong play...

Iodine
03-12-2012, 06:40 PM
If there was a 36 and up MVP he would run away with it, probably even historically for a 38 year old PG to lead the league in assists and shoot over 50%. I want him on a contender so bad :(

ManRam
03-12-2012, 07:10 PM
Nice post. Good argument.

It's surreal that he's still doing this for so long. What could have been.

I agree. He's tremendous. You'd think a guy of his size would slow down a bit. Come to Orlando Stevie!

theLgndKllr35
03-12-2012, 07:14 PM
He's definitely playing with a terrible team, but unfortunately, team record reflects a lot in the voting process, so hard to say he would.

Probably top 4 of importance to his team, but in this contest, not likely.

sunsfan88
03-12-2012, 11:29 PM
Sadly no. Do you, as a Suns fans, want to see him play out his twilight years with Dudley and Frye?

Better that than play in NY with ball hogs like 'Melo.

HoodedSB
03-13-2012, 06:20 AM
yeah in the discussion. his team is truly horseshyte

naps
03-13-2012, 06:50 AM
Unfortunately, no. His team record won't let him be into top 5 but he's absolutely having an MVP type season. What Nash has been doing I don't think any player in the history could do at 38. He's arguably having his best season or at least one of the best seasons with bunch of nobodies. How could someone average 11 assists a game at age 38 playing with the likes of Childress, Dudley, Frye is beyond me.

Law25
03-13-2012, 07:24 AM
Record, shot attempts, declining efficiency, Bynum's emergence and Pau's continued strong play...

Kobe's leading the league in scoring. His Lakers are third in the West with a new coach and a new bench that is currently the worst in the leauge and without his team having a true training camp. His Lakers can very well move up to second place their only 3 games behind the Spurs. His effciency is his only negative even then he's only 0.2 off his career average. If youve seen Pau play this year you would see he's declining and though Bynum has great numbers he's still developing and learning doubles. Thats pretty damn good for an 16year vet whos played through multiple injuries this year that would have set down most players.

Lebron, Rose, Dwight, and Durant all have the same coach and team for the most part from last year which has been a huge advantage for them and its showing in their record. If your gonna complain about Kobe having Pau and Bynum than Lebron should be nowhere near your discussion for MVP for obvious reasons. :rolleyes:

But to the Op's question Nash though great has stolen enough MVP's and should not be in conversation for one this year. With that being said I would be impressed if he got them to the playoffs.

MrfadeawayJB
03-13-2012, 12:05 PM
To answer your question, no. But if the suns got HCA then possibly. LeBron is just on a whole different level this season. I am amazed at how well Nash is playing even at this stage in his career!

Delusional
03-13-2012, 12:08 PM
Considering Nash is carrying the team on his back, and has gotten them in realistic range of a playoff berth, yes he should be an MVP consideration.

Raph12
03-13-2012, 02:46 PM
Kobe's leading the league in scoring. His Lakers are third in the West with a new coach and a new bench that is currently the worst in the leauge and without his team having a true training camp. His Lakers can very well move up to second place their only 3 games behind the Spurs. His effciency is his only negative even then he's only 0.2 off his career average. If youve seen Pau play this year you would see he's declining and though Bynum has great numbers he's still developing and learning doubles. Thats pretty damn good for an 16year vet whos played through multiple injuries this year that would have set down most players.

Lebron, Rose, Dwight, and Durant all have the same coach and team for the most part from last year which has been a huge advantage for them and its showing in their record. If your gonna complain about Kobe having Pau and Bynum than Lebron should be nowhere near your discussion for MVP for obvious reasons. :rolleyes:

But to the Op's question Nash though great has stolen enough MVP's and should not be in conversation for one this year. With that being said I would be impressed if he got them to the playoffs.

Yes the Lakers record isn't too bad considering they lost PJ, Odom, Shannon and have to get accustomed to a new coaching scheme. But, with that being said, Lebron, Durant, Dwight, Rose and CP3 have been the clear-cut best players on their teams, with better records and all have put up better stats than Kobe while doing it... Kobe has not seperated himself from his teammates.

nickdymez
03-13-2012, 02:52 PM
Record, shot attempts, declining efficiency, Bynum's emergence and Pau's continued strong play...


Dont site the fact that he has good players on his team as your argument. Lebron has Wade and Bosh

Ebbs
03-13-2012, 03:04 PM
Yea I would say give or take 7th/8th

Blitzbolt
03-13-2012, 03:08 PM
Just Like Kevin Love who cares as long as you are losing you should not get one single MVP vote.

And 2 or 3 games over .500 is not winning.

Raph12
03-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Dont site the fact that he has good players on his team as your argument. Lebron has Wade and Bosh

Lebron has outplayed Wade and Bosh easily; Kobe has not done the same.

dodie53
03-13-2012, 09:15 PM
nope,
sorry.

More-Than-Most
03-13-2012, 09:33 PM
will he? no...should he? yes in my opinion...No other pg does more with less.

Bos_Sports4Life
03-14-2012, 01:17 AM
Kobe's leading the league in scoring. His Lakers are third in the West with a new coach and a new bench that is currently the worst in the leauge and without his team having a true training camp. His Lakers can very well move up to second place their only 3 games behind the Spurs. His effciency is his only negative even then he's only 0.2 off his career average. If youve seen Pau play this year you would see he's declining and though Bynum has great numbers he's still developing and learning doubles. Thats pretty damn good for an 16year vet whos played through multiple injuries this year that would have set down most players.

Lebron, Rose, Dwight, and Durant all have the same coach and team for the most part from last year which has been a huge advantage for them and its showing in their record. If your gonna complain about Kobe having Pau and Bynum than Lebron should be nowhere near your discussion for MVP for obvious reasons. :rolleyes:


Both Gasol AND Bynum have a higher total win share, winshares/48, ORtg and both have a better DRtg...

Kobe has 2 guys down low averaging 16.85 ppg/11.55 Rebounds with a TS% of .598.

Kobe has the luxury of 2 talented 7 footers, he should be using them more.

More-Than-Most
03-14-2012, 01:25 AM
I am starting to think the guy will average 20/20 when he hits 50

Mr_Jones
03-14-2012, 01:38 AM
I love Steve.

SmartestGuyHere
03-14-2012, 01:41 AM
I think Steve Nash has enough NBA MVP trophies. He stole at least 1 from Kobe. I have no pity for a player who had Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Amare Stoud and STILL unable to win a ring. 4 all stars on 1 team isn't enough? LOL

Shortys4711
03-14-2012, 01:54 AM
I think Steve Nash has enough NBA MVP trophies. He stole at least 1 from Kobe. I have no pity for a player who had Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Amare Stoud and STILL unable to win a ring. 4 all stars on 1 team isn't enough? LOL

To bad you selected the wrong user name for yourself. If you actually watched the suns during those years you would know they actually had a lot of bad luck and also came up against a great team in the Spurs.

alexander_37
03-14-2012, 01:55 AM
I love Nash, but no way.

This. Even with this guys sig I agree with him, that is saying a lot.

Law25
03-14-2012, 01:56 AM
Okay just realized how many Kobe haters there really are on PSD. Wade is better than Lebron when it counts and going by last years finals so is bosh. Lebron has two franchise prime allstars yet Kobe has more? Durant and Rose being better this year is b.s and there team being better is a result of comin in with there same team and coach as i posted earlier. Using advance stats to say his teammates are better is also crap. Watch the games!!! and stop hating. I hate when people try and downplay him. You dont have to root or like the guy but give him his credit.

alexander_37
03-14-2012, 02:00 AM
Okay just realized how many Kobe haters there really are on PSD. Wade is better than Lebron when it counts and going by last years finals so is bosh. Lebron has two franchise prime allstars yet Kobe has more. Durant and Rose is being better this year is b.s and there team being better is a result of comin in with there same team and coach as i posted earlier. Using advance stats to say his teammates are better is also crap. Watch the games!!! and stop hating. I hate when people try and downplay him. You dont have to root or like the guy but give him his credit.

I forgot how many people think that Kobe has a magical dick so if they ride it hard enough they wont be wrong about him.

Law25
03-14-2012, 07:19 AM
I forgot how many people think that Kobe has a magical dick so if they ride it hard enough they wont be wrong about him.

Wow really? Okay where am I dick riding? lol. I say he's had more to overcome this year to get his team where there at (which is third in the West and still improving) than Lebron, Durant, and Rose who are the supposed front runner, and should be in the mix as a possible canidate and Im a dick rider for stating facts and truth. Some guy says Kobe isnt because of the emergence of Bynum, and because Pau has decent numbers, but thinks Lebron should be in it with Wade and Bosh as his teammates, and thats okay? Miss me with that foolishness.

Another thing to youngin (if not in age than I'm just referring to your mentality) if i was a dick rider and thats a big if. It wouldnt be for a guy who falls apart on the big stage, or a guy who depends on another guy to create him easy looks, I'll leave Rose out of it becuase i like him alot, but you get my point. Oh and grow up with the dick riding stuff it makes you look young and dumb.

SaimuKala
03-14-2012, 07:49 AM
Okay just realized how many Kobe haters there really are on PSD. Wade is better than Lebron when it counts and going by last years finals so is bosh. Lebron has two franchise prime allstars yet Kobe has more? Durant and Rose being better this year is b.s and there team being better is a result of comin in with there same team and coach as i posted earlier. Using advance stats to say his teammates are better is also crap. Watch the games!!! and stop hating. I hate when people try and downplay him. You dont have to root or like the guy but give him his credit.


The funny thing is that if Kobe plays for their favourite team then he's top3 in MVP race.

alexander_37
03-14-2012, 10:55 AM
I forgot how many people think that Kobe has a magical dick so if they ride it hard enough they wont be wrong about him.

Wow really? Okay where am I dick riding? lol. I say he's had more to overcome this year to get his team where there at (which is third in the West and still improving) than Lebron, Durant, and Rose who are the supposed front runner, and should be in the mix as a possible canidate and Im a dick rider for stating facts and truth. Some guy says Kobe isnt because of the emergence of Bynum, and because Pau has decent numbers, but thinks Lebron should be in it with Wade and Bosh as his teammates, and thats okay? Miss me with that foolishness.

Another thing to youngin (if not in age than I'm just referring to your mentality) if i was a dick rider and thats a big if. It wouldnt be for a guy who falls apart on the big stage, or a guy who depends on another guy to create him easy looks, I'll leave Rose out of it becuase i like him alot, but you get my point. Oh and grow up with the dick riding stuff it makes you look young and dumb.

Kobe is shooting worse %'s than Derrick ****ing Rose EVEN FROM 3!!!

He cant sniff the efficiency of KD Paul Lebron Wade or several other players. When you shoot that poorly all you are doing is hurting your team. Kobe is not in my top 8 as of right now.

If you honestly think Kobe is even in the race #1 or even #5 you are 10x more dumb than you make me out to be...

IndiansFan337
03-14-2012, 11:01 AM
He is having a tremendous season and doing with so with very little talent around him, but he is not a top 4 MVP candidate this year.

Guys like LeBron, Durant, Love, Kobe, Paul, Howard, etc will all be above him in the voting. I can even see guys like Dirk, Parker, Wade, Griffin and Westbrook receiving votes over Nash. So that likely leaves Nash even outside of the top 10. That really shows how strong of a season the NBA is having this year, even amidst the condensed schedule.

Law25
03-14-2012, 11:47 AM
Kobe is shooting worse %'s than Derrick ****ing Rose EVEN FROM 3!!!

He cant sniff the efficiency of KD Paul Lebron Wade or several other players. When you shoot that poorly all you are doing is hurting your team. Kobe is not in my top 8 as of right now.

If you honestly think Kobe is even in the race #1 or even #5 you are 10x more dumb than you make me out to be...

I see what ur saying about his efficiency, but alot of his shots are bailout against the clock shots and have been for most of his career that why his a career 45% shooter. To say he's hurting more than he's helping is absurb. Maybe two times a game he will actually take a crap shot its not like hes comin down court just launching any thing up lol. Im not making an excuses for him i wish he would shoot an higher percentage but than he wouldnt be Kobe. If he worried about every shot he threw up or every miss he'll probaly never when another ring. He's a risk taker and when it counts being that is what more times than not put him over the top. If he gets near his career percentages and maintain his numbers is he still not in the conversation, he's only .2 off his career fg% lol the guys 33 averaging 29pts 5.7rebs and nearly 5ast at 4.8ast. He's Leading his team in Points, Assists, and Steals, his team could still #2 in the west with no real training camp, a new coach, and a new bench which is the worst in the league. Can you truley say he's not in the discussion because he's not as efficient as you would like, again he's .2 off his careerfg% with over 20 games to make it up.

Im done with this subject it feels pointless. It will take Ultra efficient Lebron to choke or lose again in the finals, before people let go of their advance stats and crap. Taking risks are apart of the game and i rather have Kobe trying to bail his team out at 45% than Lebron running from the shot at 55%. Im using Lebron becuase he is regarded many as the standard right now and pegged by many as the best on the planet.

willabeast77
03-14-2012, 12:51 PM
I dont think he'll make an all-nba team this season.

alexander_37
03-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Kobe is shooting worse %'s than Derrick ****ing Rose EVEN FROM 3!!!

He cant sniff the efficiency of KD Paul Lebron Wade or several other players. When you shoot that poorly all you are doing is hurting your team. Kobe is not in my top 8 as of right now.

If you honestly think Kobe is even in the race #1 or even #5 you are 10x more dumb than you make me out to be...

I see what ur saying about his efficiency, but alot of his shots are bailout against the clock shots and have been for most of his career that why his a career 45% shooter. To say he's hurting more than he's helping is absurb. Maybe two times a game he will actually take a crap shot its not like hes comin down court just launching any thing up lol. Im not making an excuses for him i wish he would shoot an higher percentage but than he wouldnt be Kobe. If he worried about every shot he threw up or every miss he'll probaly never when another ring. He's a risk taker and when it counts being that is what more times than not put him over the top. If he gets near his career percentages and maintain his numbers is he still not in the conversation, he's only .2 off his career fg% lol the guys 33 averaging 29pts 5.7rebs and nearly 5ast at 4.8ast. He's Leading his team in Points, Assists, and Steals, his team could still #2 in the west with no real training camp, a new coach, and a new bench which is the worst in the league. Can you truley say he's not in the discussion because he's not as efficient as you would like, again he's .2 off his careerfg% with over 20 games to make it up.

Im done with this subject it feels pointless. It will take Ultra efficient Lebron to choke or lose again in the finals, before people let go of their advance stats and crap. Taking risks are apart of the game and i rather have Kobe trying to bail his team out at 45% than Lebron running from the shot at 55%. Im using Lebron becuase he is regarded many as the standard right now and pegged by many as the best on the planet.
Saying it's 2% off his career average does not change the fact that all these other players are just way more efficient than him half the players in the NBA could put up 30 ppg with enough shots. The fact that you are ignoring this is proving your ignorance. Also it is a regular season award it does not make ANY difference how badly Lebron chokes in the playoffs it should not even be a contest it's between Lebron and KD IMO.

NetsPaint
03-16-2012, 01:23 AM
What's most impressive about Nash and the Suns' victories after the All-Star break is that he's not looking to score much at all.

mdm692
03-16-2012, 01:35 AM
I think Steve Nash has enough NBA MVP trophies. He stole at least 1 from Kobe. I have no pity for a player who had Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Amare Stoud and STILL unable to win a ring. 4 all stars on 1 team isn't enough? LOL

hmmmm 2004-05 playoffs their key wing player got hurt(joe johnson) with no really good bench players other than barbosa. 05-06 stat was hurt all year nash carried the entire team with a supporting cast of diaw, bell, marion(the only other star), barbosa, and thomas. I assure you had the suns been 100% healthy both years they would of won at least 1 ring.

sunsfan88
03-17-2012, 07:05 PM
Suns one game out of #8 seed....Nash 17 assists, 5 pts yesterday..

Shortys4711
03-17-2012, 10:18 PM
Suns one game out of #8 seed....Nash 17 assists, 5 pts yesterday..

Nice Sig man, I cant believe that dunk didnt make the espn or nba top ten.

sunsfan88
03-17-2012, 11:06 PM
Nice Sig man, I cant believe that dunk didnt make the espn or nba top ten.

Thanks bro. Yea of course it wouldn't be on ESPN, you think they would do something to hurt their media boy Blake Griffin? Nahhhhh

But if this was in reversal and Griffin dunked on Morris instead you would be hearing about how its dunk of the year, etc.