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View Full Version : Source: Blue Jays Pursuing RHP Gavin Floyd



TO Rapz
03-12-2012, 03:22 PM
Jon Morosi ‏ @jonmorosi
Sources: #BlueJays pursuing #WhiteSox RHP Gavin Floyd. Story with @Ken_Rosenthal at FOXSports.com: bit.ly/zgC0wc @MLBONFOX

TO Rapz
03-12-2012, 03:25 PM
Very interesting, Morosi is a very reliable source, and we did work out a Santos deal with them already, I wonder what happens, Floyd would all of a sudden make our rotation a bit more reliable.

The_Jet11
03-12-2012, 03:30 PM
would look good behind Romero and Morrow. I wonder what it would take to get him.

Cecil could then slide down to the 4th spot, Alvarez to the 5th, and we could make Dusty our long man out of the bull-pen. I love McGowan, but I think any way we can save his bullets is a good thing. I doubt our long man would get regular use, so he'd have a few days off between outings and Villanueva can also throw multiple innings.

Should be interesting to see how this unfolds.

Farsight
03-12-2012, 03:33 PM
would look good behind Romero and Morrow. I wonder what it would take to get him.

Cecil could then slide down to the 4th spot, Alvarez to the 5th, and we could make Dusty our long man out of the bull-pen. I love McGowan, but I think any way we can save his bullets is a good thing. I doubt our long man would get regular use, so he'd have a few days off between outings and Villanueva can also throw multiple innings.

Should be interesting to see how this unfolds. If Cecil does not improve his velocity by the end of spring training (consistently sits at 86-88) i want him no where close to our rotation as his stuff is not over powering, nor is his command great

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 03:45 PM
What would you guys give up for Floyd? I like him and all, but I don't think I wanna give up any high upside specs for 2 years of him at 7M and 9.5M. I'd maybe do Mcguire straight up for him or maybe Thames + Jenkins for him. Definitely wouldn't give any of our elite prospects such D'Arnaud, Gose, Marisnick or Hutchison.

rapsjaysfan88
03-12-2012, 03:46 PM
dusty is a starter or not with the team

rapsjaysfan88
03-12-2012, 03:46 PM
whats floyds stuff mph and pitches?

jaysnraptors44
03-12-2012, 03:49 PM
did he not have the whole incident with Bautista or was that someone else

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 03:52 PM
whats floyds stuff mph and pitches?
Low 90's fastball with a good cutter and curve, and I think he's got a decent change.

did he not have the whole incident with Bautista or was that someone else
That was Danks

rapsjaysfan88
03-12-2012, 03:55 PM
aa never makes things public so I dought this is legit

bartron_44
03-12-2012, 03:56 PM
according to fangraphs, Flloyd throws:

pitch : avg velocity

2 seam FB: 91
cutter: 85
Curve:79
change:85


not an overpowering guy, and he hasn't had an ERA under 4 in the West since 2008. But he has made 30+ starts the past 4 seasons. He would log innings, but I don't think he is much of an improvement over whomever he replaces.

adid727
03-12-2012, 03:57 PM
Gavin Floyd would be great. he has been pretty consistent over the past 4 years.

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 04:02 PM
according to fangraphs, Flloyd throws:

pitch : avg velocity

2 seam FB: 91
cutter: 85
Curve:79
change:85


not an overpowering guy, and he hasn't had an ERA under 4 in the West since 2008. But he has made 30+ starts the past 4 seasons. He would log innings, but I don't think he is much of an improvement over whomever he replaces.

Like Morrow, his results hasn't matched his FIP. He's got very similar BB/9, K/9 and GB% to John Danks yet hasn't been able to get the results. So there's definitely room for upside there. Definitely an improvement over Cecil and more likely to log 200 innings than Mcgowan.

wagnall
03-12-2012, 04:11 PM
Like Morrow, his results hasn't matched his FIP. He's got very similar BB/9, K/9 and GB% to John Danks yet hasn't been able to get the results. So there's definitely room for upside there. Definitely an improvement over Cecil and more likely to log 200 innings than Mcgowan.



agree with the Cecil comparison, and does log 200 innings, as for McGowan I 'm still stumped as to what he is. Seems we can't rely on him as a starter, and frankly I don't see room for him in the pen. I'm not sure where he fits. We only have so many spots. Do we have enough for someone who really has no defined role. :confused:

phillipmike
03-12-2012, 04:19 PM
Why not if it is at a reasonable price. Sox are looking for some younger players and perhaps they can work with Cecil...

Cecil plus a mid-tier prospect for Floyd.

If they are looking for our top guys like D'Arnaud, Gose, Syndergaard, Hutch etc. then i move on.

But if some of our mid-tier guys can get it done then i am all for it. Maybe they will be after some of our international guys like how Paddy was high on Nestor Molina.

Eagles4Lyfe
03-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Wth why man I rather give guys like Drabek a chance or McGowan, this is just weird.

TO Rapz
03-12-2012, 04:32 PM
Wth why man I rather give guys like Drabek a chance or McGowan, this is just weird.

Who says Drabek doesn't get a chance? This isn't weird at all lol, the only two guy set in stone are Morrow and Romero. Cecil's velocity is worse then the Colts from last season, Drabek had control issues last year, McGowan has the injury history we all know about, and then there's Henderson Alvarez.

So essentially..our options are.

1) Ricky Romero
2) Brandon Morrow.

These two for sure.

Then we have...

RHP: Kyle Drabek
RHP: Dustin McGowan
RHP: Henderson Alvarez
LHP: Brett Cecil
RHP: Carlos Villanueva

3 of these 5 guys will make our rotation I'd imagine, where are we going with this? If Morrow doesn't match his peripherals again, we're in trouble.

Thing about Gavin Floyd is, I saw one poster compared how his FIP and xFIP don't matchup with his ERA much like Morrow does, problem is Morrow's GB% rate has been 40.4 and 36% respectively over the last two years (when he first became a constant SP and his first year here for us). Floyd's GB% has been 44.3, 49.9, 43.7 specifically over the last 3 years. It's quite a bit higher then Morrows, and last year he didn't have a great year, but then again what White Sox really did?

Atleast Floyd has logged 206, 193, 187.1, and 193.2 innings over the last 4 years, he gives us another reliable arm. This would leave us with:

Romero, Morrow and Floyd as locks for the rotation. Villanueva would be sent to the pen where he won't hurt himself by pitching too many innings, and the last 2 spots can be fought out by Drabek, McGowan, Cecil and Alvarez.

Having too many good pitchers who throw the ball well and eat innings is never a bad problem in the MLB, and if the price is right, I support this move from Alex Anthopolous.

Sanyo
03-12-2012, 04:38 PM
Meh, Jays are already backlogged with pitching this year -- McGuire and Jenkins have been very good in the few outings they've had. Hutch has been good as well, not as good as the other two but he's still younger.

Floyd has one more year left and he's only pitched 200 innings once in his career. I would rather give a kid like Deck or Jenkins a shot at the 5th slot than Floyd. I think Mcgowan will put up better number than Floyd as well. He's not worth $7 mil when McGowan will be paid $600k.

Sanyo
03-12-2012, 04:41 PM
Wth why man I rather give guys like Drabek a chance or McGowan, this is just weird.

Im with you 110%.

You got Romero and Morrow.

Then you have a number of Cecil, McGowan, Alvarez, Drabek, Jenkins, Deck, Hutch, heck even Laffey -- not sure why the Jays would be desperate enough for a $7 million 4th starter. Jays have pitched very well in the spring, unless Im missing something I dont see the point...

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 04:51 PM
Meh, Jays are already backlogged with pitching this year -- McGuire and Jenkins have been very good in the few outings they've had. Hutch has been good as well, not as good as the other two but he's still younger.

Those guys have pitched what a grand total of 3-4 innings thus far against what no one would call major league lineups. This is a proven major league starter here to just assume those guys will step in and be as good as Gavin Floyd right away is wishful thinking.


Floyd has one more year left and he's only pitched 200 innings once in his career. I would rather give a kid like Deck or Jenkins a shot at the 5th slot than Floyd. I think Mcgowan will put up better number than Floyd as well. He's not worth $7 mil when McGowan will be paid $600k.
Your not getting Floyd to be a 5th starter your getting him in the hopes he can be a solid #3 starter. He has the peripheral stats to be a solid #3.

Im with you 110%.

You got Romero and Morrow.

Then you have a number of Cecil, McGowan, Alvarez, Drabek, Jenkins, Deck, Hutch, heck even Laffey -- not sure why the Jays would be desperate enough for a $7 million 4th starter. Jays have pitched very well in the spring, unless Im missing something I dont see the point...

Your missing the fact its spring training. None of the above mentioned guys have pitched against major league lineups or pitched through the order a 2nd time when pitchers usually start to get hit.

Sanyo
03-12-2012, 05:13 PM
^^ Who cares! If Gavin Floyd is available now, he will be available in the middle of the season if the Jays really need him....all those guys eventually need the experience (Jenkins, Deck, Hutch). Its not like the Jays are planning on contending this year, so if your going with youth, stick with youth! Deck is pretty much ready I think for mlb batters, same with Jenkins. I really dont know what else they can learn now in the minors. Its time to get them out there and see what they got.

Anyways whats the point of arguing, we all know when these rumors comes out, it usually never ends up happening anyways....

StealingSigns
03-12-2012, 05:15 PM
hahaha love the comments in the White Sox forum..


Jesus, **** off Toronto.


Yea AA probably oiling up KW for a rape thats coming. I hope not though.


KW better not be stupid

:D

Tmath
03-12-2012, 05:19 PM
Don't believe, like AA says, if you heard about it, its not likely to happen.

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 05:25 PM
^^ Who cares! If Gavin Floyd is available now, he will be available in the middle of the season if the Jays really need him....all those guys eventually need the experience (Jenkins, Deck, Hutch). Its not like the Jays are planning on contending this year, so if your going with youth, stick with youth! Deck is pretty much ready I think for mlb batters, same with Jenkins. I really dont know what else they can learn now in the minors. Its time to get them out there and see what they got.

Anyways whats the point of arguing, we all know when these rumors comes out, it usually never ends up happening anyways....

He'll be available at higher price in the middle of the season when more teams realize they need starting pitching and suffer injuries. I'm not saying make a stupid trade here, I'm saying if you can take advantage of Kenny Williams again for Floyd you do it, regardless of whether you have minor league depth. Floyd is solid starter who's capable of producing better numbers than he has thus far and would easily slot in as the 3rd best pitcher in our rotation right now. I don't know about you but I think the Jays are competing this year, there's 5 playoff spots now.

Sanyo
03-12-2012, 05:33 PM
Im still iffy -- you have the core Romero, Morrow, Cecil, McGowan and Alvarez. You still have Drabek looking from the outside. Laffey as well. Then you got Jenkins and Deck who could start the year in AA/AAA and then have them ready if any pitcher underperforms/gets injured. Jenkins and Deck should be ready to go soon, if not to start the year. Heck even Carlos Villenueuva can start if you really need too. I think they are ambitious with Hutch though to potentially start the year in the Majors, I think he needs a good half season of polishing in the minors before consideration.

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 05:40 PM
Im still iffy -- you have the core Romero, Morrow, Cecil, McGowan and Alvarez. You still have Drabek looking from the outside. Laffey as well. Then you got Jenkins and Deck who could start the year in AA/AAA and then have them ready if any pitcher underperforms/gets injured. Jenkins and Deck should be ready to go soon, if not to start the year. Heck even Carlos Villenueuva can start if you really need too. I think they are ambitious with Hutch though to potentially start the year in the Majors, I think he needs a good half season of polishing in the minors before consideration.

Seriously Laffey and Villaneuva is stopping you from pulling the trigger for Floyd? That's Aaron Laffey the owner of a career 4.46 K/9 and 3.59 BB/9. Cecil is currently throwing 86MPH so I'm skeptical about him regaining 2010 form and lets face it the odds are stacked against Mcgowan making it through the season. So I'd say that core definitely has its weaknesses. Jenkins and Deck are close to ready, but what are their ceilings? Can't be much higher than Gavin Floyd, so why not get the sure thing if the price is right. If you can trade for Floyd without losing any high upside guys you do it as you can always trade your depth to improve at other positions.

Sanyo
03-12-2012, 05:52 PM
Let's see who they trade for him -- IF it even happens -- knowing AA he's probably calling SF about Bumgarner and pulling a fast one on all of us!

Farsight
03-12-2012, 05:52 PM
Seriously Laffey and Villaneuva is stopping you from pulling the trigger for Floyd? That's Aaron Laffey the owner of a career 4.46 K/9 and 3.59 BB/9. Cecil is currently throwing 86MPH so I'm skeptical about him regaining 2010 form and lets face it the odds are stacked against Mcgowan making it through the season. So I'd say that core definitely has its weaknesses. Jenkins and Deck are close to ready, but what are their ceilings? Can't be much higher than Gavin Floyd, so why not get the sure thing if the price is right. If you can trade for Floyd without losing any high upside guys you do it as you can always trade your depth to improve at other positions. I actually wouldnt mind packaging McGuire and someone else for Floyd. Floyd is one of those players, much like Morrow, who has great peripherals, and is more than likely in some way going to improve on their performance. this is a perfect time to buy partially low on him

Dol-Fan
03-12-2012, 05:56 PM
hahaha love the comments in the White Sox forum..





:D

Awesome :D

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 06:10 PM
I actually wouldnt mind packaging McGuire and someone else for Floyd. Floyd is one of those players, much like Morrow, who has great peripherals, and is more than likely in some way going to improve on their performance. this is a perfect time to buy partially low on him

My thoughts exactly, Floyd is pretty much John Danks without the price tag. If Santos can be had for Molina straight up wouldn't be surprised if Floyd can be had for Deck straight up.

DeRozan10
03-12-2012, 06:39 PM
Depends what we would give up for him of course

wamco
03-12-2012, 06:41 PM
floyd would be a welcomed addition. A proven SP in his prime at below market salary? sign me up. Underrated arm. I think the year his era was inflated, metrics showed he was better than that as well. MCG was told his arm won't hold up in the bullpen, not sure why it keeps getting suggested. It's gonna take more than Cecil. I'd do drabek for him for sure. I'd think the name came up earlier in discussions between the 2 (we heard that right?) And prob came up in santos discussions. I'd think they were far apart then though or a move would have been made then. However, KW prob shopped him all winter and overplayed his hand hence making him available with spring training about to start (and at a lower asking price if he wants to move him).

I personally never got over the Wells-Sirotka (homer bush in there too?) deal they ripped us off on and I'd love to see AA to the cleaners on floyd.

statquo
03-12-2012, 06:43 PM
floyd would be a welcomed addition. A proven SP in his prime at below market salary? sign me up. Underrated arm. I think the year his era was inflated, metrics showed he was better than that as well. MCG was told his arm won't hold up in the bullpen, not sure why it keeps getting suggested. It's gonna take more than Cecil. I'd do drabek for him for sure. I'd think the name came up earlier in discussions between the 2 (we heard that right?) And prob came up in santos discussions. I'd think they were far apart then though or a move would have been made then. However, KW prob shopped him all winter and overplayed his hand hence making him available with spring training about to start (and at a lower asking price if he wants to move him).

I personally never got over the Wells-Sirotka (homer bush in there too?) deal they ripped us off on and I'd love to see AA to the cleaners on floyd.

+1... as one of the White Sox posters said in their forum, I'd like to see AA oil up Kenny and rape the **** out of them. Floyd's averaged a 4 WAR the last three seasons.

jaysfan4ever
03-12-2012, 06:45 PM
My thoughts exactly, Floyd is pretty much John Danks without the price tag. If Santos can be had for Molina straight up wouldn't be surprised if Floyd can be had for Deck straight up.

Probably. But I think Deck is worth more than 2 years of Floyd. With Floyd at 29 years old, you know what you're getting. Deck could break out, and is very cost-effective. Give 'em Jenkins/Cecil and a prospect outside our top-20. I think the White Sox still want salary relief.

I'd be up for trading for Floyd if we don't have to deal any "upside prospects". Since we have money to spend this year, might as well add a starter now and take advantage of the 3rd WC. Heck, Jenkins and McGowan might work for them.

scottythegreat1
03-12-2012, 06:46 PM
Why Not? Weve raided their bullpen, lets raid their starting pitching too!!!

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 07:00 PM
Probably. But I think Deck is worth more than 2 years of Floyd. With Floyd at 29 years old, you know what you're getting. Deck could break out, and is very cost-effective. Give 'em Jenkins/Cecil and a prospect outside our top-20. I think the White Sox still want salary relief.

I'd be up for trading for Floyd if we don't have to deal any "upside prospects". Since we have money to spend this year, might as well add a starter now and take advantage of the 3rd WC. Heck, Jenkins and McGowan might work for them.

I like Hutchison, Nicolino and Syndergaard better long term than Deck, and since I think Deck's upside is probably Gavin Floyd, I'll take the sure thing. A rotation of Romero, Morrow, Floyd, Alvarez and Cecil/Mcgowan I like opening day with Hutchison or Drabek swooping in to take a spot if anyone goes down. Two years down the road if you can't extend Floyd hopefully one of Nicolino, Syndergaard and Sanchez are ready to step in.

mike_noodles
03-12-2012, 07:05 PM
I don't care for Gavin Floyd at all, especially when you could have gotten Edwin Jackson without giving up assets. In his career he's only gone over 200 IP once, and only once had an ERA under 4. If he comes I hope he can perform, but realistically this guy is a #4 or #5 on a decent team, nothing more.

Dol-Fan
03-12-2012, 07:09 PM
I don't care for Gavin Floyd at all, especially when you could have gotten Edwin Jackson without giving up assets. In his career he's only gone over 200 IP once, and only once had an ERA under 4. If he comes I hope he can perform, but realistically this guy is a #4 or #5 on a decent team, nothing more.

I don't mind Floyd, but this is my issue with the interest as well. Why not sign Edwin Jackson outright, who is a better player IMO, rather than giving up an asset or two for Floyd? I do think Floyd is more of a 3-4, just like Jackson, but the assets make a difference here.

phillipmike
03-12-2012, 07:25 PM
I don't mind Floyd, but this is my issue with the interest as well. Why not sign Edwin Jackson outright, who is a better player IMO, rather than giving up an asset or two for Floyd? I do think Floyd is more of a 3-4, just like Jackson, but the assets make a difference here.

Jackson wanted to go to the Nats. He turned down several multi-year deals to sign with them to get back on the open market. Teams dont simply sign players they need to want to come here.

craigerlee
03-12-2012, 07:30 PM
I don't mind Floyd, but this is my issue with the interest as well. Why not sign Edwin Jackson outright, who is a better player IMO, rather than giving up an asset or two for Floyd? I do think Floyd is more of a 3-4, just like Jackson, but the assets make a difference here.

Maybe Edwin didn't wanna come to Toronto and pitch in the AL East. You really can't compare the two situations cause you don't know what it would of taken to land Edwin Jackson. Maybe it would of cost 15M to change Jackson's mind. Floyd cost 7M plus a prospect cause you have the club option for 2012 on him so you don't count that. In terms of assets it really depends on the prospect, but say Jackson wanted 15M to come to Toronto, that hypothetical 8M cost savings can get you a pretty decent asset right there.

darius
03-12-2012, 07:38 PM
Why not if it is at a reasonable price. Sox are looking for some younger players and perhaps they can work with Cecil...

Cecil plus a mid-tier prospect for Floyd.

If they are looking for our top guys like D'Arnaud, Gose, Syndergaard, Hutch etc. then i move on.

But if some of our mid-tier guys can get it done then i am all for it. Maybe they will be after some of our international guys like how Paddy was high on Nestor Molina.

I'd totally unload Cecil + someone like Thames for Floyd. It'd be great to sign him to an extra year, making it a three year deal.

mike_noodles
03-12-2012, 07:39 PM
Okay, maybe Jackson doesn't wanna come, but I would still rather roll the dice with McGowan as our #5.

Halladay
03-12-2012, 07:43 PM
Floyd is pretty meh across the board but with how many young, unpredictable arms it wouldn't be a terrible option to have a reliable third starter. This is assuming the price is right, there's no way I give up much for him.

Dol-Fan
03-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Jackson wanted to go to the Nats. He turned down several multi-year deals to sign with them to get back on the open market. Teams dont simply sign players they need to want to come here.

You could have said the same thing without the smartass comment attached to the end. I had never heard any stories that he turned down multiple multi-year offers, and being that Washington isn't exactly a prime FA destination, I assumed that the big offers weren't there.

BlueJayFanDan
03-12-2012, 09:24 PM
I would give up Jenkins and maybe a lower tier outfield prospect. Would be nice to get a good innings eater in our rotation like Floyd.

Toxeryll
03-12-2012, 09:27 PM
Id give up Mcguire/Jenkins and Sierra/Cooper.

bomber0104
03-12-2012, 09:31 PM
Not a huge fan of Floyd simply because he probably won't be much better than anything we have.. I wouldn't mind getting him though if he cost little, very little

wamco
03-12-2012, 10:05 PM
Okay, maybe Jackson doesn't wanna come, but I would still rather roll the dice with McGowan as our #5.


makes no sense

:facepalm::facepalm:

phillipmike
03-12-2012, 10:28 PM
You could have said the same thing without the smartass comment attached to the end. I had never heard any stories that he turned down multiple multi-year offers, and being that Washington isn't exactly a prime FA destination, I assumed that the big offers weren't there.

Nothing smartass about it. Its simple; fans always claim why give up assets in a trade for a player when you can sign someone. Not saying you said it but a lot of posters claimed the Jays should have sign Jonathan Papelbon or one of the many other closers on the market instead of giving up Molina for Santos.

Its very common to hear from fans but players need to want to sign somewhere for them to sign here or anywhere. The Jays were rumored to have offered Beltran a 3 year deal worth more than the two year deal that St. Louis offered which he took. Beltran like some players did not want to be a DH or play on turf (State of Franchise).

Same goes for any team, Cliff Lee took less money and term to sign with the Philles than with the Yankees. Has nothing to do with that you can offer in terms of a contract - players need to want to come here.

I thought it was well know that Jackson turned down several multi-year deals for the 1 year in Washington.


Asked what led Edwin Jackson to take a one-year deal with the Nationals, Boras said, "In Edwin's case, it was choice. We had multiyear deals, a number of them. We really felt that it was best for him, at his age, to be with a particular team at a particular time and then go into the free agent market next year." I was curious as to whether Boras thought Jackson would improve his market position with a better 2012 performance, and the agent explained, "Our metrics, our analysis, we felt that his evolution as a pitcher is coming. I think he was developing certain pitches as his season went on. We really felt it was best for him to do a one-year contract rather than a three-year deal."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/boras-on-edwin-jackson-damon-mike-gonzalez.html


The Pirates made Edwin Jackson a substantial three-year offer, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (Twitter links). Pittsburgh offered a three-year deal in the range of $10MM per season, but Jackson signed with the Nationals for $11MM. The Pirates also made a one-year offer worth less than $11MM, Rosenthal reports.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/quick-hits-pirates-verlander-camp.html


Jackson turned down a three-year, $30MM offer to sign his one-year deal with Washington, tweets Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/quick-hits-jackson-fielder-rollins-hall.html


Okay, maybe Jackson doesn't wanna come, but I would still rather roll the dice with McGowan as our #5.

I agree. But it appears the problem is not McGowan rather Cecil. He is throwing 86-88 MPH on average on his fastball in ST which is terrible for a starter in the AL East let alone a major leaguer. It looks like AA is looking to add depth for that reason. McGowan actually looks great in ST.

But on a side note to address both posters. Sometime things dont work out the way you want it to. Cecil was probably being relied on more than Alvarez and McGowan due to his history and recent past in the majors. McGowan is coming off of various serious injuries and Alvarez only pitched 63 innings last year (his MLB career). So in my opinion Cecil was the least of your worries, he was a former 1st round pick who had a decent rookie year, a good 2nd year and not so good 3rd year. But he improved near the end, lost 33 pounds in the off-season and came to ST early. So i am sure he was a lock to make the rotation.

However, things change and change often as nothing is for certain. Cecil was 'safe' bet or safer than others before most guys signed (i.e. Jackson plus others) now he is showing red flags. Nothing AA can do now as he cant go back in time as Jackson signed before Cecil was showing areas of concern. Plus add in the fact the uncertainty of the additional playoff spot was added after Jackson signed. Many people thought it was going to be instituted next year not this year. So things change drastically even in a short period of time. Maybe AA thinks this is a playoff team with Cecil and now without him he is looking to add a reliable arm.

You got to deal with the cards that you are dealt with. Hence why AA is possibly (not known for certain) looking for options (i.e. Floyd and Blanton) now as opposed to before.

2009mvp
03-12-2012, 11:23 PM
Not a huge fan of Floyd simply because he probably won't be much better than anything we have.. I wouldn't mind getting him though if he cost little, very little

Explain how Romero is significantly (if at all) better than Floyd. He'd immediately be the second most productive pitcher on the roster if he were brought in, under contract at a very reasonable 16.5M over the next two years. I don't know about you but I don't see anyone on the farm making the kind of strides that would make them better options than Floyd by next season either.

dballss
03-12-2012, 11:26 PM
dont we have enough 4+ era starters?

StealingSigns
03-12-2012, 11:34 PM
I think this trade might happen. What will be interesting is to see the response from Jays Nation when someone deemed to be significant from the farm system is included in prying him from the Sox. Then again, we are talking about KW here...

Still, as 2009mvp stated, Floyd is useful. He has averaged 4.1 WAR the past three seasons, has a shiny 3.6xish xFiP to go with it. If this trade goes down, someone of significance is going the other way. AA can't have his way with KW everytime... right???

StealingSigns
03-12-2012, 11:36 PM
dont we have enough 4+ era starters?

ERA? Really?

You must be one of the ones who thinks Brandon Morrow sucks.

Toxeryll
03-12-2012, 11:37 PM
i figure if we give them jenkins, hell crack their top 5 lol

StealingSigns
03-12-2012, 11:59 PM
This could be the quote of the year...


With the track history KW has with the Bluejays, no wonder AA is trying to get something done. Maybe we should refer to KW as KY instead....since he always seems to be getting ****ed...

phillipmike
03-13-2012, 12:13 AM
This could be the quote of the year...

I will second this.

2009mvp
03-13-2012, 12:20 AM
A - 7.12 K/9, 3.20 BB/9, 54.7 GB%
B - 7.02 K/9, 2.09 BB/9, 43.7 GB%

The groundballs should be the dead giveaway, but yeah, you get the point. Floyd is really good.

craigerlee
03-13-2012, 12:49 AM
A - 7.12 K/9, 3.20 BB/9, 54.7 GB%
B - 7.02 K/9, 2.09 BB/9, 43.7 GB%

The groundballs should be the dead giveaway, but yeah, you get the point. Floyd is really good.

I will say getting more games against Twins, Indians, Royals and Tigers definitely helps out Floyd when comparing him to Romero. So I definitely have Romero by a wide margin. However I agree Floyd is pretty darn good and I can't understand why people are calling him a 4th or 5th starter. He's #3 and probably has #2 potential.

jaysnraptors44
03-13-2012, 12:56 AM
Explain how Romero is significantly (if at all) better than Floyd. He'd immediately be the second most productive pitcher on the roster if he were brought in, under contract at a very reasonable 16.5M over the next two years. I don't know about you but I don't see anyone on the farm making the kind of strides that would make them better options than Floyd by next season either.

are you really comparing Romero to Floyd lol Romero is for sure better ten floyd

jaysnraptors44
03-13-2012, 12:59 AM
ERA? Really?

You must be one of the ones who thinks Brandon Morrow sucks.

era = earned runs allowed so i don't see what's wrong at looking at that stat .. so I'm Guessing you think Aj burnett and John lackey haven't been **** these past past year just by looking at they're era ?

statquo
03-13-2012, 01:22 AM
What are Floyd's stats against the AL East the last few years?

StealingSigns
03-13-2012, 02:04 AM
era = earned runs allowed so i don't see what's wrong at looking at that stat .. so I'm Guessing you think Aj burnett and John lackey haven't been **** these past past year just by looking at they're era ?

haha I know what ERA is bud. And the pitchers you mentioned are terrible.

The past three seasons:

AJ Burnett had a 4.19 xFiP with the Yankees.
John Lackey has a 4.24 xFiP over the same time period. (and he was good once upon a time)

Gavin Floyd has an xFiP of 3.68 during that same time frame.

ChongInc.
03-13-2012, 03:03 AM
I see something built around:
Floyd + international signing budget room
For
Cecil + _____

We won't lose here. Trust.
Does Floyd have one or two years left on his contract? Any draft pick compensation possible when his contracts over? If he only has one year left and AA is hoping he'll being us a draft pick, then expect the deal to be sealed before the season starts. I don't think the new CBA allows for draft pick compensation for players acquired mid-season.

StealingSigns
03-13-2012, 03:16 AM
I see something built around:
Floyd + international signing budget room
For
Cecil + _____

We won't lose here. Trust.
Does Floyd have one or two years left on his contract? Any draft pick compensation possible when his contracts over? If he only has one year left and AA is hoping he'll being us a draft pick, then expect the deal to be sealed before the season starts. I don't think the new CBA allows for draft pick compensation for players acquired mid-season.

4 years/$15.5M (2009-12), plus 2013 club option

jaysfan4ever
03-13-2012, 06:22 AM
I like Hutchison, Nicolino and Syndergaard better long term than Deck, and since I think Deck's upside is probably Gavin Floyd, I'll take the sure thing. A rotation of Romero, Morrow, Floyd, Alvarez and Cecil/Mcgowan I like opening day with Hutchison or Drabek swooping in to take a spot if anyone goes down. Two years down the road if you can't extend Floyd hopefully one of Nicolino, Syndergaard and Sanchez are ready to step in.

Agreed about Deck's upside. However, Deck is one of those high floor guys, so he's a good bet to be a dirt-cheap #4 starter for his first 4 years, saving the team a lot of money. Granted, the Jays are loaded with arms like this, but if I'm the White Sox, I gladly take Deck straight up for Floyd. I think we can get 1 year of Floyd for less than Deck, especially considering how little it took to get Carlos Quentin.

Halladay
03-13-2012, 06:37 AM
No way in hell I trade Deck for Floyd. If I'm dealing one of those prospects I'd want a younger pitcher with more upside than Floyd.

the_jon
03-13-2012, 06:41 AM
I have a feeling that Kenny Williams is as high on our farm as we are and is ready to drop his pants. Wouldn't be overly shocked if we got him very cheap. Cecil + mid to low tier prospects seems possible here.

the_jon
03-13-2012, 06:43 AM
No way in hell I trade Deck for Floyd. If I'm dealing one of those prospects I'd want a younger pitcher with more upside than Floyd.
He's a pretty reliable arm actually. Not saying I'd give up Deck or even a top 10 guy for him, but he'd provide quality innings for us.

Halladay
03-13-2012, 07:41 AM
He's a pretty reliable arm actually. Not saying I'd give up Deck or even a top 10 guy for him, but he'd provide quality innings for us.

He'd be a nice pickup no doubt but dealing a top prospect for a mid-rotation(average) starter doesn't make sense unless AA has aspirations to make immediate noise this season with the playoffs. I just think we could do a little better for a top prospect.

bartron_44
03-13-2012, 08:32 AM
Give us Gavin Flloyd and Matt Thorton and I would give them Deck and Jimenez :)

North Yorker
03-13-2012, 09:06 AM
What are Floyd's stats against the AL East the last few years?

He has done great vs Boston and Tampa Bay, struggled a bit vs the Yanks (but he did have one great start vs them in Yankee Stadium) the last 3 years.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/5922/type/pitching3/gavin-floyd

Nels@Ryerson
03-13-2012, 09:18 AM
He has done great vs Boston and Tampa Bay, struggled a bit vs the Yanks (but he did have one great start vs them in Yankee Stadium) the last 3 years.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/5922/type/pitching3/gavin-floyd

if he does come to toronto.. he sure will be happy not to have to face us.. thats for sure!

North Yorker
03-13-2012, 09:21 AM
if he does come to toronto.. he sure will be happy not to have to face us.. thats for sure!

haha yep. We lit him up early and often

wamco
03-13-2012, 09:50 AM
knew it sounded too good to be true...

CBS Sports' Jon Heyman reports that "there's no evidence of ongoing talks" between the White Sox and Blue Jays involving right-handed starter Gavin Floyd.
Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports heard Monday that the Jays were "still in pursuit" of Floyd and had been discussing a trade with the Pale Hose since the start of spring training. But perhaps there's no fire to that smoke. Floyd, 28, posted a 4.37 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 193 2/3 innings last season. He's owed $7.5 million this year.

mike_noodles
03-13-2012, 09:52 AM
makes no sense

:facepalm::facepalm:

Facepalm all you you want. What makes no sense would be giving up anything of any value for this guy. We have guys in our system right now that can give us the exact same thing as Floyd, lots of them.

And for those of you that want to know, apparently it's a done deal, check out Wilner's twitter page.

phillipmike
03-13-2012, 09:55 AM
Facepalm all you you want. What makes no sense would be giving up anything of any value for this guy. We have guys in our system right now that can give us the exact same thing as Floyd, lots of them.

And for those of you that want to know, apparently it's a done deal, check out Wilner's twitter page.

What's a done deal?

North Yorker
03-13-2012, 10:29 AM
Could we work a package around Thames I wonder? They're not exactly stacked in the OF.

TO Rapz
03-13-2012, 10:34 AM
Wilner's twitter doesn't say it's a done deal..

masTOR_shake1
03-13-2012, 10:39 AM
"Mike Wilner‏@Wilnerness590Reply
Retweet

Favorite
Open

Just spoke to Alex Anthopoulos. He said: "We're getting Floyd now? Who are we giving up?" #bluejays #jays"


haaaardly a done deal, people need to understand context. wilner was saying that when he saw A.A, A.A said "oh, so we are getting flyod, who are we giving up?". alex was being sarcastic by asking a member of the media about a baseless rumor that is going around, implying that alex has no knowledge of this "done" deal and that it probably doesn't have legs in an "i geuss the press would know more about it than i do", smartass way.

mike_noodles
03-13-2012, 11:04 AM
What's a done deal?

Sorry, misread it, didn't see the question mark.

bomber0104
03-13-2012, 11:24 AM
Explain how Romero is significantly (if at all) better than Floyd. He'd immediately be the second most productive pitcher on the roster if he were brought in, under contract at a very reasonable 16.5M over the next two years. I don't know about you but I don't see anyone on the farm making the kind of strides that would make them better options than Floyd by next season either.

Really?? One is a guy that posted a sub 3 ERA in the AL East while the other is a guy that has posted one sub 4 ERA in the AL Central playing against KC, Cle, and Minn

I know ERA is no the greatest stat but a full run difference in a much weaker division is pretty significant none the less

Farsight
03-13-2012, 11:27 AM
Really?? One is a guy that posted a sub 3 ERA in the AL East while the other is a guy that has posted one sub 4 ERA in the AL Central playing against KC, Cle, and Minn

I know ERA is no the greatest stat but a full run difference in a much weaker division is pretty significant none the less Romero is better than Floyd, there is no doubt about that. FIP values strike outs, but it also tends to undervalue ground ball pitchers as they rely more on defense (which is not a sure thing). If they all pitch to their peripherals, than Gavin Floyd should be a better pitcher... but you can say the same thing about Morrow. The only issue is that one has actually performed better than expect, and one has not

You have to remember that strike out pitchers are less prone to having a higher ERA. You can look at the progression of Roy Halladays career when he was purely pitching to contact, than changed his approach as he started to strike out significantly more player. In general, his performance is better when he pitched to less contact. So its understandable to see why FIP and other stats value strike outs more than ground ball outs.

wamco
03-13-2012, 11:33 AM
Sorry, misread it, didn't see the question mark.


:facepalm:

StayOnBoard
03-13-2012, 11:37 AM
Sorry, misread it, didn't see the question mark.


:facepalm:

Careful he doesn't like facepalms, you might be on the hit list lol

mike_noodles
03-13-2012, 11:41 AM
:facepalm:

Wow, made a mistake, somebody need some cranberry juice this morning?

sager729
03-13-2012, 11:41 AM
It would take more than you guys are talking about to get Floyd at this moment. The Sox are in no hurry to trade him, so it would be up to the Jays to overpay. I personally think the Jays are a team with another SP like Floyd, could easily be better than the Red Sox and fight the Angels for that 2nd wildcard spot. But waiting until the trade deadline is a risky move, seeing as you may not be close enough to the race to make a move. He is only owed $16.5 million over the next two seasons. Guys like that are going for $12-$15 million per year on the open market. So he is a good deal. An interesting name to look for could be Travis Snider.

mike_noodles
03-13-2012, 11:41 AM
Careful he doesn't like facepalms, you might be on the hit list lol

Why you gotta bring up old stuff? It wasn't the facepalm that bothered me, it was the name calling that went along with it.

Eagles4Lyfe
03-13-2012, 12:06 PM
Why even waste assets trying to get these kinds of guys when we can put those assets in a package to acquire a high end ace

jester00
03-13-2012, 12:09 PM
It would take more than you guys are talking about to get Floyd at this moment. The Sox are in no hurry to trade him, so it would be up to the Jays to overpay. I personally think the Jays are a team with another SP like Floyd, could easily be better than the Red Sox and fight the Angels for that 2nd wildcard spot. But waiting until the trade deadline is a risky move, seeing as you may not be close enough to the race to make a move. He is only owed $16.5 million over the next two seasons. Guys like that are going for $12-$15 million per year on the open market. So he is a good deal. An interesting name to look for could be Travis Snider.


sager, while I understand that the Whitesox are in no need of trading Floyd, that trade that you proposed over on your blog is absolutely insane. You think the Jays would need to offer Snider, Snydergaard, Cardona and Wojo for Floyd? That is so far beyond ridiculous, I don't even know where to start. For those wondering what I'm refering to, see this:

http://www.rantsports.com/chicago-white-sox/2012/03/13/gavin-floyds-trade-value/

Floyd would be an upgrade for us and I know that the Sox don't need to trade him, but that proposal is just silly. Everyone overvalues their own players, I guess some more than others. Wow, just wow

Farsight
03-13-2012, 12:15 PM
sager, while I understand that the Whitesox are in no need of trading Floyd, that trade that you proposed over on your blog is absolutely insane. You think the Jays would need to offer Snider, Snydergaard, Cardona and Wojo for Floyd? That is so far beyond ridiculous, I don't even know where to start. For those wondering what I'm refering to, see this:

http://www.rantsports.com/chicago-white-sox/2012/03/13/gavin-floyds-trade-value/

Floyd would be an upgrade for us and I know that the Sox don't need to trade him, but that proposal is just silly. Everyone overvalues their own players, I guess some more than others. Wow, just wow That is a lot. That is two top 10 prospects, 1 top 20 prospects, and a player with really good potential in a deep farm. That would be a HUGE overpayment. The best offer i think toronto would offer for Floyd is Mcguire and AJ Jiminez, and those are our mid level prospects (who on other teams, are their higher end prospects). Or i can see a package centred around Thames and Deck with MAYBE a C prospect

phillipmike
03-13-2012, 01:51 PM
sager, while I understand that the Whitesox are in no need of trading Floyd, that trade that you proposed over on your blog is absolutely insane. You think the Jays would need to offer Snider, Snydergaard, Cardona and Wojo for Floyd? That is so far beyond ridiculous, I don't even know where to start. For those wondering what I'm refering to, see this:

http://www.rantsports.com/chicago-white-sox/2012/03/13/gavin-floyds-trade-value/

Floyd would be an upgrade for us and I know that the Sox don't need to trade him, but that proposal is just silly. Everyone overvalues their own players, I guess some more than others. Wow, just wow

Floyd is definitely a good player.

Yeah but this guy is clearly nuts why not ask for Drabek too. I would assume that one or two of those players should get the deal done not 4. To be honest i wouldnt trade Snider or Syndergaard.

Cardona and Wojo would be possibilities but i just dont see the Jays looking to add starting pitching. As bad as KW as a GM in trades i dont think he can screw up dealing Floyd as the market for starting pitching is sky high. Hence i do not think AA will make a deal for a starter. Unless AA knows something i do know in regards to us being a legit contender then i dont see the need to add a pitcher. Even with Cecil having a bad ST the Jays have a lot of options that could fill in. Drabek, Deck, Hutch and Laffy would be the next in line. I would be willing to see what these guys have first before expending valuable assets for another starter.

At some point the Jays will need to drop some of their players in the water to see if they will sink or float.

Bob_at_york
03-13-2012, 01:59 PM
I would trade Thames and a pitcher for him.

Muttman73
03-13-2012, 02:39 PM
KW will probably trade him to you guys for a 12 pack of Molson.

wagnall
03-13-2012, 03:14 PM
KW will probably trade him to you guys for a 12 pack of Molson.



I'll give him a 24, out of my own pocket. Done :cheers:

wagnall
03-13-2012, 03:22 PM
Too much talk going on means this ain't happenning. :)

wamco
03-13-2012, 03:45 PM
will drabek ever be as good as floyd?

Twitchy
03-13-2012, 04:29 PM
Apparently not everybody at this Rant Sports (http://www.rantsports.com/toronto-blue-jays/2012/03/13/are-the-toronto-blue-jays-interested-in-gavin-floyd/) seems to agree with him about Floyd's value.

scotttube
03-13-2012, 09:48 PM
will drabek ever be as good as floyd?

6 years of Drabek for likely less than $10 million is better than 2 years and $16.5 million of Floyd.

scotttube
03-13-2012, 09:52 PM
Remember that it took Zach Stewart and Frasor and taking on a disastrous contract in Teahen to get 3 months of Edwin Jackson so it's going to take more than just Drabek or Deck McGuire to get 2 seasons of Floyd.

jaysfan4ever
03-14-2012, 02:33 AM
Apparently not everybody at this Rant Sports (http://www.rantsports.com/toronto-blue-jays/2012/03/13/are-the-toronto-blue-jays-interested-in-gavin-floyd/) seems to agree with him about Floyd's value.

Yeah, seems like solid reasoning. We can afford a Deck for Floyd swap straight-up with our million arms, but it would be an overpayment.


Remember that it took Zach Stewart and Frasor and taking on a disastrous contract in Teahen to get 3 months of Edwin Jackson so it's going to take more than just Drabek or Deck McGuire to get 2 seasons of Floyd.

First off, it's 3 months of Edwin Jackson plus Type-B compensation (supplementary 1st rounder), vs. Frasor probably accepting arbitration. Add in a high deadline price, and Floyd probably costs no more than Edwin Jackson did.

Stewart was rated as a B/B- prospect by John Sickels, comparable to AJ Jimenez or Asher Woj. Frasor clearly wasn't worth much, as we got him back for nothing. And Teahen cost us $7.2M.

http://soxbronzetitan.wordpress.com/2011/07/27/scouting-reports-on-newest-sox-prospect-rhp-zach-stewart/

I'm thinking AJ Jimenez and Chad Jenkins gets it done.

wamco
03-14-2012, 09:14 AM
6 years of Drabek for likely less than $10 million is better than 2 years and $16.5 million of Floyd.

who was talking about finances?

Twitchy
03-14-2012, 10:32 AM
Remember that it took Zach Stewart and Frasor and taking on a disastrous contract in Teahen to get 3 months of Edwin Jackson so it's going to take more than just Drabek or Deck McGuire to get 2 seasons of Floyd.

Stewart and Frasor aren't nearly as valuable as McGuire or Drabek though. And I hate Drabek, so I'm not overstating his value here.

nithanyo
03-14-2012, 04:14 PM
Snider + Cecil for Floyd

wagnall
03-14-2012, 04:25 PM
^ respectfully NO