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View Full Version : Grunwald Turned Down Vince Carter For Nowitzki, Steve Nash Trade When With Raptors



JordansBulls
03-10-2012, 09:21 PM
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/sports/article/192559--watch-raptors-could-have-had-nash-dirk



John Shannon shocked listeners of Prime Time Sports Friday saying Raps GM Glen Grunwald said 'no' to a trade that would’ve sent Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash to Toronto for Vince Carter and Antonio Davis.

In hindsight, such a trade looks like a huge missed opportunity for the Raptors since Nash is the greatest basketball player to ever come out of Canada and has since gone on to win back-to-back MVPs for the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons.

Nowitzki won an MVP himself in the 2006-07 season and has more recently won an NBA championship with the Dallas Mavericks in 2011 while taking the Finals MVP honours.

Though Vince Carter is an eight-time all-star and was a budding super star at the time of this proposed trade, "Vinsanity" has slowed down and has been criticized for not playing to his potential.

Fresno
03-10-2012, 09:32 PM
I can agree with Toronto not making this move at that time.

At one point before the injuries, Vince Carter was a Top 10 player in the NBA and was the most exciting player to watch in the league. From a PR standpoint that would've been a bad move, because I'm sure Mark Cuban realized how much money that Vince Carter would've made the Dallas Mavericks in ticket sales/merchandise.

Dirk didn't really become a "true" Superstar until a few years later, same for Nash.

Punk
03-10-2012, 09:33 PM
I always have said on here that the Raptors can attract superstar but their management's track record and current track record is hurting their franchise from attracting anyone.

I can't even hate Grunwald because he was the one who signed Lin and Novak. So, I'm just glad he redeemed him self somewhat and I hope to god, he pulls the trigger on any Dwight trade that is available.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-10-2012, 09:34 PM
You should have put in the article how this was in early 2000 when Carter was mainstream and better than Dirk at the time.

You should know better JB.

ACanadian
03-10-2012, 09:42 PM
You should have put in the article how this was in early 2000 when Carter was mainstream and better than Dirk at the time.

You should know better JB.

Yea JB :mad:
LOL

Iodine
03-10-2012, 09:43 PM
Man, Grunwald should have been able to see in the future perfectly!

homestarunner93
03-10-2012, 09:46 PM
If Dirk Nowitzki and Vince Carter switched places, how would their teams have fared...I feel a thread coming on.

spreadeagle
03-10-2012, 09:46 PM
plz as if that is better then getting the great Aaron Williams the superstar Erik Williams and a half retired,wants nothing to do with you Alonzo Mourning

netsgiantsyanks
03-10-2012, 09:54 PM
never mind, this was early on in vc's career.

Slimsim
03-10-2012, 10:04 PM
Can't blame him at the time VC was big But god dam that must sting a little if I'm a raptors fan

spreadeagle
03-10-2012, 10:07 PM
Can't blame him at the time VC was big But god dam that must sting a little if I'm a raptors fan

Nothing at all shocks me about the Raptors..they consistanly do weird bizzare trades and drafts or in this case dont do although Carter probably made the millions and millions in jersey and tix sales so cant blame em. With Coach Casey and Jonas Valanciunas I think they may be finally getting it together

BigBongTheory
03-10-2012, 10:10 PM
Wow.

netsgiantsyanks
03-10-2012, 10:12 PM
yeah though, that could of been crazy.

Corey
03-10-2012, 10:15 PM
Hindsight.

Vince was better at the time.

knicks=love
03-10-2012, 10:31 PM
glen made the right move at the time. if he knew what would happen in the future, then it'd be different.

waveycrockett
03-10-2012, 10:37 PM
Yeah Vince was still a superstar at this point and very young too

knicks=love
03-10-2012, 10:43 PM
grunwald is a smart dude. although right now this deal looks like he lost, at the time he knew what he was doing.

jailedgiantsfan
03-10-2012, 10:44 PM
way to early in VC's career to make that trade...but if only there was a way to go back in time :eyebrow:

waveycrockett
03-10-2012, 10:51 PM
This like saying the Thunder are dumb because they wouldnt trade Durant for Wall and Vessely because 8 years from both those guys will be better. How are you supposed to know that?

Fresno
03-10-2012, 10:53 PM
way to early in VC's career to make that trade...but if only there was a way to go back in time :eyebrow:

Blast from the past:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHG1g8IFbQk

Yeah I wouldn't trade that beast for an unproven Dirk & above average Steve Nash.

The excitement factor for Raptors games at that moment in time probably is unmatched.

Oh how I miss the old Sportscenter days with their old intro music and them showcasing VC's dunks in Toronto, Shaq's dominance in LA, AI's crossovers in Philly, and White Chocolate's ridiculous passes in Sacramento.

Donk'E'Dic
03-10-2012, 10:56 PM
Swing and a miss

Ebbs
03-10-2012, 10:59 PM
Oh my lord.... The Raptors would have actually been relevent

rockbottom2010
03-10-2012, 11:00 PM
the raptors made alot of money cuz of vince carter alone.....if it weren't for him...the raptors would have been relocated to a different city...juss like the grizzlies did

LAKobeBryant
03-10-2012, 11:03 PM
why didn't toronto just accept because their getting a canadian, for that reason only they should of accepted!!

rockbottom2010
03-10-2012, 11:35 PM
Oh my lord.... The Raptors would have actually been relevent

u know that banner u have....it would have prolly been the raptors by now :P

spreadeagle
03-10-2012, 11:37 PM
the raptors made alot of money cuz of vince carter alone.....if it weren't for him...the raptors would have been relocated to a different city...juss like the grizzlies did

yup

Bruno
03-10-2012, 11:39 PM
that stings like lemons in the eye. wow.

Abdul Mutalib
03-10-2012, 11:48 PM
in 02' this woulda been an easy decline on grunwald's part despite any stats of nash and dirk. The notion of a demise of carter was more unprecedented than the rise of nash & dirk in that particular period of time.

JordansBulls
03-10-2012, 11:55 PM
You should have put in the article how this was in early 2000 when Carter was mainstream and better than Dirk at the time.

You should know better JB.

Why would I put in the article something that was not mentioned? Not to mention the fact all you have to do is know when Vince played in Toronto to figure it out.

Sssmush
03-11-2012, 12:13 AM
they are Toronto

lavilevi23
03-11-2012, 01:01 AM
wow

CudiOnMyiPod
03-11-2012, 01:30 AM
Toronto probably would have had a championship by now.

Gram
03-11-2012, 01:31 AM
I still can't believe what Carter got Toronto from the Nets lol.

lakers4sho
03-11-2012, 01:34 AM
cuban offered this trade, yet rejected a Nowitzki+Nash for Shaq swap? :eyebrow:

IndyRealist
03-11-2012, 12:34 PM
You should have put in the article how this was in early 2000 when Carter was mainstream and better than Dirk at the time.

You should know better JB.

Buy low, sell high. It's not a novel concept.

North Yorker
03-11-2012, 12:39 PM
Buy low, sell high. It's not a novel concept.

Hindsight is 20/20, but no GM would have pulled the trigger on that deal at the time. It would be like OKC selling high on Durant right now, just non-sense.

VC was arguably better than Kobe when this was proposed. No one could have perceived VC's injuries and attitude going so bad so quickly in Toronto.

Iron24th
03-11-2012, 12:55 PM
Vince was an upcoming MJ clone at the time while Dirk and Nash were nobody.

naps
03-11-2012, 01:01 PM
Young people are gonna be surprised. JB, what are you trying to prove here? That was a no-brainer at that time. Vince was the most exciting superstar and Dirk and Nash were not Dirk and Nash we have known for last 7/8 years. Ridiculous thread. You are playing with young posters emotion and judgement here.

KnicksorBust
03-11-2012, 01:08 PM
I would be interested to know the exact date of this offer. By his 2nd season Dirk had already proved he was legit. You still couldn't trade Vince Carter though.

KnicksorBust
03-11-2012, 01:09 PM
Wade for Love/Rubio last season. Who bites?
Wade for Love/Rubio this season. Who bites?

Cal827
03-11-2012, 02:49 PM
Why don't mods get infractions for trying to troll/bait fan bases? :D

The goods
03-11-2012, 03:15 PM
Hindsight is 20/20,so its hard to complain about it now.

IndyRealist
03-11-2012, 04:37 PM
Hindsight is 20/20, but no GM would have pulled the trigger on that deal at the time. It would be like OKC selling high on Durant right now, just non-sense.

VC was arguably better than Kobe when this was proposed. No one could have perceived VC's injuries and attitude going so bad so quickly in Toronto.

Durant plays defense and they're winning. With Carter they only finished above .500 three times (once was 42-40), with 2 first round and 1 second round playoff exits. That's a really, really bad comparison.

Eagles4Lyfe
03-11-2012, 05:00 PM
It was the offseason after he missed that shot against the sixers in the playoffs after his college graduation debacle.

Not to mention why are people saying VC was a beast so it wasn't worth doing?? Are people forgetting Nash showed just as high a potential and dirk looked like he could be something special too.

gwrighter
03-11-2012, 05:39 PM
It was the offseason after he missed that shot against the sixers in the playoffs after his college graduation debacle.

Not to mention why are people saying VC was a beast so it wasn't worth doing?? Are people forgetting Nash showed just as high a potential and dirk looked like he could be something special too.

you have the most marketable player in the NBA who looks to be on the rise for all-time greatness. Why give that up for someone on the rise who you hope will reach where Vince was?

North Yorker
03-11-2012, 05:53 PM
Durant plays defense and they're winning. With Carter they only finished above .500 three times (once was 42-40), with 2 first round and 1 second round playoff exits. That's a really, really bad comparison.
No, it's a perfect comparison.

Carter was 23, a franchise player, pretty much the face of not only Toronto but the NBA, just signed a 6 yr extension iirc , and putting up 27/5/4. Not to mention the Raps were just coming off a franchise high 47 win season.

If that doesnt compare to Durant I'm not sure what does.

Considering the last billion titles have been won by teams with top 50 all-time players(exception being the Pistons), it would have been absolutely insane to do this deal when you have one of the top 5 players in the game at 23.

No one in their right mind would have done this deal. Plain and simple.

JJ_JKidd
03-11-2012, 09:42 PM
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/sports/article/192559--watch-raptors-could-have-had-nash-dirk

Wince Carter. Guys gets bumped, acts like he got hit by a sledge hammer :facepalm:

Daze9900
03-11-2012, 09:59 PM
Not only was Vince better at the time he was "Air Canada" on oh yeah he had his cousin Mcgrady there with him as well.

Bob_at_york
03-11-2012, 10:01 PM
Yeah I wouldn't trade that beast for an unproven Dirk & above average Steve Nash.
Was Dirk unproven? Was he scoring in the high teens or over 20 ppg?

Burkey3472
03-11-2012, 10:16 PM
VC was a top 10 player that was under 25.....I can't blame him for not pulling the trigger.

RiLoc
03-12-2012, 04:55 PM
That was over a decade ago. Vince Carter was 27.6ppg/5.5reb/3.9ast/25.0per guy. Second only to Shaq in PER. Nowitzki was 21.8ppg/9.2rpg/2.1ast/22.8per and Nash was 15.6ppg/3.2rpg/7.9ast/19.6per. Excellent offer, but the Raptors probably felt they had the player of his generation and they couldn't let it slip away.

I think the only the reason that should've made them think twice is that it would've been easier to keep Dirk/Nash for a long time. Especially when you consider the Canadian taxes.