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Longhornfan1234
03-05-2012, 08:54 PM
Kevin Garnett is now in the top 20 in points (18th, 23,823), rebounds (13th, 13,087), blocks (19th, 1,883) and steals (20th, 1,638).


The only other player to do that is Hakeem Olajuwon".

The greatest powerforward of all-time. :worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy:

CudiOnMyiPod
03-05-2012, 08:56 PM
Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley and Dirk Nowitzki are all ahead.

Dirk and KG are interchangeable.

NoahH
03-05-2012, 08:57 PM
Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley and Dirk Nowitzki are all ahead.

Dirk and KG are interchangeable.

I'd take KG over Dirk by an inch. As for the other 3, yes they are superior to KG

ManRam
03-05-2012, 08:57 PM
Duncan is better hands down. Malone and Chuck probably, but I actually think it's really, really close.

Sucks he was stuck on such a poor team for so long. But considering today's NBA players, you gotta give him some respect for that. He was amazing in his prime...and I think a lot of people tend to overlook that, especially since he never won a ring in Minny, and people are obsessed with team success when discussing individual players.

Gibby
03-05-2012, 08:58 PM
Top 5 power forward

Lakeshow24KB
03-05-2012, 08:59 PM
Timmy D>KG

CudiOnMyiPod
03-05-2012, 09:01 PM
I'd take KG over Dirk by an inch. As for the other 3, yes they are superior to KG

That's why I said they were interchangeable.

Garnett is the better overall player with defense standing out.

Dirk is the better offensive and clutch player.

People would look at rebounding and say Garnett absolutely blows Dirk out of the water but Dirk has averaged 8-9 rpg his career.

Garnett didn't do a whole lot in terms of winning with the Wolves and finally won with Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo.

Dirk stuck with his team bunch of old veterans and led them to a championship last year.

I'd say Dirk and KG are 4a and 4b.

Longhornfan1234
03-05-2012, 09:01 PM
Timmy D>KG

KG is the better passer, defender, rebounder, shot blocker, defender, ball hawk, and jump shooter.

1. KG
2. Duncan
3. Karl
4. Sir Charles

D1JM
03-05-2012, 09:10 PM
Kevin Garnett is now in the top 20 in points (18th, 23,823), rebounds (13th, 13,087), blocks (19th, 1,883) and steals (20th, 1,638).


The only other player to do that is Hakeem Olajuwon".

The greatest powerforward of all-time. :worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy:

:clap: :clap: :clap: his stock keeps going up.

Chronz
03-05-2012, 09:12 PM
As far as true PF's go hes prolly the best, Barkley was a freak SF capable of playing the 4 while Duncan was a Center who played the 4. So yea I can buy KG as the best if those 2 arent competing.

Cal827
03-05-2012, 09:19 PM
That's why I said they were interchangeable.

Garnett is the better overall player with defense standing out.

Dirk is the better offensive and clutch player.

People would look at rebounding and say Garnett absolutely blows Dirk out of the water but Dirk has averaged 8-9 rpg his career.

Garnett didn't do a whole lot in terms of winning with the Wolves and finally won with Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo.

Dirk stuck with his team bunch of old veterans and led them to a championship last year.

I'd say Dirk and KG are 4a and 4b.

couldn't write up a better summary. Fully this. :clap:

GiantsSwaGG
03-05-2012, 09:22 PM
Tim Duncan is better!

Becks2307
03-05-2012, 09:27 PM
1v1 prime garnett>prime duncan...too bad duncan won all those rings, therefore garnett will never pass him

thekmp211
03-05-2012, 09:33 PM
Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley and Dirk Nowitzki are all ahead.

Dirk and KG are interchangeable.

so dirk isn't really "ahead"?

KG's defense propels him over dirk, chuck and malone in my mind. as an unabashed KG fan (despite his descent into madness) i have my biases when comparing him to duncan. it all went down the way it did, but both guys were such amazing 2 way players i think people generally assume it to be much more lopsided than it is.

KG's mvp season is one of the best i ever bore witness to. the guy could do anything, at 7'1. it was insane. he is the solid number 2 to me. i like chuck at 3, and dirk at 4 with an argument for the opposite being valid. i consider mailman overrated, as well as an idiot. but i do like the games of the other 4 better than him.

fwiw, i mentioned this on the game thread yesterday, KG has quietly been playing great ball recently. over his last 10 he is averaging 19 and 10, 1.6 blocks 1.6 steals per game on 54% shooting. He has looked very good, very not done.

5ass
03-05-2012, 09:49 PM
let me just say this, put a prime KG on last seasons championship team instead of dirk
Kidd
Terry
Marion
Garnett
Chandler

can u imagine how good that defense would be?
KG>Dirk

iamsteel
03-05-2012, 09:49 PM
McFail did make bad moves for the wolves, but some of those bad contracts were because KG wanted certain guys to stay around him (Trenton Hassell, Troy Hudson). Plus his contract took up most of the cap. But they really messed up when they broke up the team that had the best record in the west, and KG was the league MVP. It was all downhill from there. Duncan always had better players and coaches around him.

Fnom11
03-05-2012, 10:14 PM
so dirk isn't really "ahead"?

KG's defense propels him over dirk, chuck and malone in my mind. as an unabashed KG fan (despite his descent into madness) i have my biases when comparing him to duncan. it all went down the way it did, but both guys were such amazing 2 way players i think people generally assume it to be much more lopsided than it is.

KG's mvp season is one of the best i ever bore witness to. the guy could do anything, at 7'1. it was insane. he is the solid number 2 to me. i like chuck at 3, and dirk at 4 with an argument for the opposite being valid. i consider mailman overrated, as well as an idiot. but i do like the games of the other 4 better than him.

fwiw, i mentioned this on the game thread yesterday, KG has quietly been playing great ball recently. over his last 10 he is averaging 19 and 10, 1.6 blocks 1.6 steals per game on 54% shooting. He has looked very good, very not done.

+214413249234

People are undervaluing defense. Dirk has literally no defense. KG had the best defense in the league for a PF for years.

utl768
03-05-2012, 10:14 PM
he is really having a good season

SmartestGuyHere
03-05-2012, 10:55 PM
Prime KG > Tim Duncan
KG>>>Dirk.

Dankster
03-05-2012, 11:15 PM
LOL What?? Duncan is the greatest PF, and resume wise, it's not even close. I saw the Mailman play since the late 80's and I'd rank him 2nd.

What I found most impressive with Karl is how much work he put into his game offensively to become such an incredible scorer. He was an atrocious FT and perimeter shooter when he first came into the league and I'm pretty sure in his latter years in Utah, he averaged around 80% from the line and worked hard to evolve an excellent post game and jumpshot out to 18 feet. That guy was an absolute monster in his prime (around 91/92)

Greet
03-05-2012, 11:19 PM
let me just say this, put a prime KG on last seasons championship team instead of dirk
Kidd
Terry
Marion
Garnett
Chandler

can u imagine how good that defense would be?
KG>Dirk

Can you imagine how bad offensively that team would be?

Gritz
03-05-2012, 11:33 PM
Tha faaa?

macc
03-05-2012, 11:36 PM
People who rate KG 4th best pf or lower never watched him in his prime. At one point he was arguably the best player in the NBA. His team just hid how great people see him today. The best team he ever had prior to Boston was post prime Cassel and post prime Spreewell and they got the the WCF.

Garnet is a 1a/1b w/ Duncan aruablly better then him, and when I think about it, KG was more talented then Duncan but Duncan is rated higher because of all his success, though KG never had a David Robinson to park by when he got into the league.

Though I saw Malone and Barkley in their prime and they were right there with KG talent wise. I put KG above these two because KG was a better defender and could rebound and pass a tad bit better then the other two.

Malone average 21 ppg when he was 39 years old. That's crazy. People forget how good these guys were.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 12:22 AM
As far as true PF's go hes prolly the best, Barkley was a freak SF capable of playing the 4 while Duncan was a Center who played the 4. So yea I can buy KG as the best if those 2 arent competing.

Ugh, this to an extent. I am a known Wolves fan, therefore everyone here should know my opinion on KG is of the highest level. But Duncan and Barkley are better. KG is #3. Imho.

Becks2307
03-06-2012, 12:28 AM
Can you imagine how bad offensively that team would be?

what??

kg was an offensive beast in his prime as well.

24ppg 14reb 5ast 2blks 1.5 stl

in 2003

thesparky33
03-06-2012, 01:04 AM
I'm a biased Wolves fan, but no way is Dirk ahead of Garnett. I need explanations.

Knicks21
03-06-2012, 02:22 AM
let me just say this, put a prime KG on last seasons championship team instead of dirk
Kidd
Terry
Marion
Garnett
Chandler

can u imagine how good that defense would be?
KG>Dirk

They would struggle to score.

Knicks21
03-06-2012, 02:23 AM
what??

kg was an offensive beast in his prime as well.

24ppg 14reb 5ast 2blks 1.5 stl

in 2003

We talking about 2011 KG, not an offensive beast.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 02:28 AM
I'm a biased Wolves fan, but no way is Dirk ahead of Garnett. I need explanations.

no way you can rank Dirk ahead of KG.

Cfrey
03-06-2012, 02:31 AM
The great thing is that when Love's career is over I get to say I watched two of the greatest PFs of all time on my Minnesota Timberwolves.

Sadds The Gr8
03-06-2012, 02:37 AM
#3 behind Duncan and Barkley

eugene
03-06-2012, 02:48 AM
Malone
Duncan
KG
Dirk
Barkley
My order...

Raph12
03-06-2012, 03:07 AM
Duncan>Barkley>=Malone>Garnett>=Dirk

Becks2307
03-06-2012, 03:09 AM
We talking about 2011 KG, not an offensive beast.

he said a PRIME KG

DaVille
03-06-2012, 03:17 AM
KG is 1b Greatest PF of all time, Duncan is 1a

DaVille
03-06-2012, 03:24 AM
We talking about 2011 KG, not an offensive beast.

Defensive beast still. 17 years in the NBA, KG remains best Defensive PF in the NBA. Defense is after all one/half of basketball game. Kevin Garnett did it on both ends scoring and defending.

magichatnumber9
03-06-2012, 03:31 AM
I'll take a prime Garnett over any power forward in the history of the league.

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 03:44 AM
I'll take a prime Garnett over any power forward in the history of the league.

You do that. I would take prime Duncan and win championships. People who rate KG over Duncan are insane. People act as if Duncan was surrounded by great players his whole career. DRob was already exiting his prime when Duncan came into the league and these "better" players(Gino, Parker, SJax) were nowhere near as good at that time as they ended up being. Duncan was surrounded by either really green players or old vets. Some tend to forget he wasn't a monster athletically like KG, but did more with less talent due to fundamentals, leadership, and intelligence.

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 03:47 AM
I also dont think KG is too far ahead of TD stats wise, considering he has played 2 years longer.

NJBASEBALL22
03-06-2012, 04:06 AM
From what I saw, TD and KG were two different type of PF's. TD was a better scorer down low while KG was a better all-around offensive player, he wasn't as good in the post (not bad by any means though) but he shoot up to 19 ft., put the ball on the floor, and pass. He was a better rebounder than TD and a better defender than any other PF of his era. KG routinely avg 22/12.5/5 1.5 steals, 2 blocks on 50%/80% shooting. TD was more of only a post player, post offense and post D. KG played like a small forward on offense and could guard anyone 6'6 and up.

The KG vs. TD debate almost reminds me off the Hakeem vs. Ewing battle. KG being Hakeem... much more athletic, able to go to the perimeter on D, able to pass, put the ball on the floor and be more than an area rebounder. TD being Ewing... not an athlete, a guy how played the blocks and took slow, fundament jumpers.

Cfrey
03-06-2012, 04:37 AM
KG is better than duncan and its simply because duncan had a better supporting cast than KG ever did lets face it

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 04:39 AM
kg is better than duncan and its simply because duncan had a better supporting cast than kg ever did lets face it

bs

Cfrey
03-06-2012, 04:41 AM
bs?? you wanna tell me the best player KG ever had next to him?? please go ahead give it a shot and then laugh once you realize who it was

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 04:55 AM
bs?? you wanna tell me the best player KG ever had next to him?? please go ahead give it a shot and then laugh once you realize who it was

I meant it was a BS excuse. Look at some of the rosters Duncan had. See all of these "better" players he had around him during his prime and then look at their stats and ages. It wasn't as if he was surrounded with greatness. Sure Duncan had some better teams, but it wasn't as if they were great by any means. Either way I hate the BS argument of who had better teams, blah, blah, blah. That leads nowhere in a hurry because you could attempt to discount almost every championship team to have won. Bottom line is that Tim Duncan made those around him better and he lead them to victory. I wouldn't necessarily say the same for KG. There is always a reverse to every argument though. For example....If KG's teams were sooo terrible, is it possible he was just talented enough to have padded stats as he was the only one to be worth a damn? Not many would believe that, nor do many who know the game, think KG is better than Duncan. TD is widely regarded as the best PF to ever play the game. Live with it.

DaVille
03-06-2012, 05:18 AM
I meant it was a BS excuse. Look at some of the rosters Duncan had. See all of these "better" players he had around him during his prime and then look at their stats and ages. It wasn't as if he was surrounded with greatness. Sure Duncan had some better teams, but it wasn't as if they were great by any means. Either way I hate the BS argument of who had better teams, blah, blah, blah. That leads nowhere in a hurry because you could attempt to discount almost every championship team to have won. Bottom line is that Tim Duncan made those around him better and he lead them to victory. I wouldn't necessarily say the same for KG. There is always a reverse to every argument though. For example....If KG's teams were sooo terrible, is it possible he was just talented enough to have padded stats as he was the only one to be worth a damn? Not many would believe that, nor do many who know the game, think KG is better than Duncan. TD is widely regarded as the best PF to ever play the game. Live with it.

you sir are full of ****.

David Robinson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Steve Kerr, Brent Barry, Nazr Mohammed, Brent Barry, Robert Horry, Beno Udrih, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Malik Rose.

looka09
03-06-2012, 05:24 AM
Best PF in history imho.

DaVille
03-06-2012, 05:30 AM
I'll take a prime Garnett over any power forward in the history of the league.

KG had one of the greatest primes in NBA history. I wish he found his way to Celtics sooner. He was too loyal to Timberwolves franchise. They were wasting his best years teammates like Michael Olowokandi.

CudiOnMyiPod
03-06-2012, 05:44 AM
bs?? you wanna tell me the best player KG ever had next to him?? please go ahead give it a shot and then laugh once you realize who it was

....

You have got to be one of the biggest homers on this site.

First you said that Kevin Love could go down as the greatest PF of all time and now you say that KG is easily better than Tim Duncan?

Winning is a primary facotr in greatness and Duncan did it, way more than KG. Garnett was more talented but Duncan was the better player. Not even close...

I have a few questions I want you to answer honestly:

1. Where do you rank Nikola Pekovic among centers today and where will he be in a few years?

2. What is Ricky Rubio's potential? Greatest PG? Top5? Top20? Top 50?

3. Is Derrick Williams a potential top 20 player in the NBA?

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 05:54 AM
you sir are full of ****.

David Robinson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Steve Kerr, Brent Barry, Nazr Mohammed, Brent Barry, Robert Horry, Beno Udrih, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Malik Rose.

Robinson, Elliot, Horry were exiting their primes or already out of them. It took several years for Parker and Gino to become the players they are now....and that started when Tim was already in the league quite some time. SJax only played less than a season and a half and that was before he became what he did. Bowen I will give you as a great defender. Avery & Kerr were out of their prime and were never great to begin with. Nazr stayed for less than a year and a half. Why would you include Beno? During that time he wasn't too great for the Spurs as that is why they got rid of him. Do you want to include Glenn Robinson and his 9 games played with the Spurs? The only great players TD had around him were DRob when he was already coming out of his prime Tim's rookie season at age 32, Gino who hit his prime when TD was already in the league for 8 years, and Parker who is still in his prime with Timmy about to be 36. Bowen was a great defender so if you want to include him go ahead. I still think he deserved at least one DPOY award. Again, TD had good teams, not great. I understand what you were doing and i can give you a few like Robsinson, Gino, etc. But why would you ever lump Avery, Kerr, Barry, Beno, Malik, Nazr as great players he played with?

CudiOnMyiPod
03-06-2012, 05:58 AM
you sir are full of ****.

David Robinson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Steve Kerr, Brent Barry, Nazr Mohammed, Brent Barry, Robert Horry, Beno Udrih, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Malik Rose.

If you are going to name Kerr, Barry, Mohammed, Udrih, Johnson and Rose then for KG I will name

Latrell Sprewell
Chauncey Billups
Wally Szczerbiak
Terrell Brandon
Joe Smith
Troy Hudson
Rasho Nesterovic
Sam Cassell
Ricky Davis

Szczerbiak averaged 18.7 ppg, 17.6 ppg, 15.5 ppg, and 20.1 ppg in a few seasons with Garnett.

Davis averaged nearly 20 ppg with Garnett one season.

Cassell averaged 20 and 7 one year with Garnett.

Sprewell averaged 17 one year with Garnett.


Garnett actually has had good talent around him. He has had many scorers around him, a big reason why he averages around 5 apg for his career.

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 06:07 AM
If you are going to name Kerr, Barry, Mohammed, Udrih, Johnson and Rose then for KG I will name

Latrell Sprewell
Chauncey Billups
Wally Szczerbiak
Terrell Brandon
Joe Smith
Troy Hudson
Rasho Nesterovic
Sam Cassell
Ricky Davis

Szczerbiak averaged 18.7 ppg, 17.6 ppg, 15.5 ppg, and 20.1 ppg in a few seasons with Garnett.

Davis averaged nearly 20 ppg with Garnett one season.

Cassell averaged 20 and 7 one year with Garnett.

Sprewell averaged 17 one year with Garnett.


Garnett actually has had good talent around him. He has had many scorers around him, a big reason why he averages around 5 apg for his career.

If we are just throwing names then dont forget Marbury, Gugliotta, Laettner, Rider, Mitchell or Terry Porter.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 10:34 AM
KG is better than duncan and its simply because duncan had a better supporting cast than KG ever did lets face it

dude, chill on the homerism. I can try and make a case for KG better than anyone most likely, but it still doesn't change the fact that Duncan had a more accomplished career. If you switch TD and KG on their respective teams, is KG the better PF? Maybe. But that is all speculation at this point. KG shrunk in the playoffs compared to TD and Barkley, so I have a tough time putting him over either, though a case can be made that KG's defensive dominance puts him ahead of Chuck. We are also talking about one of the greatest #2 options ever. KG shrunk in so many 4th quarters over his career, and rarely just took the game over late, something Wolves fans complained about forever. Hell, Kevin Love has 10x the killer instinct KG did. He was my favorite player for over a decade, but he had his faults.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 10:38 AM
I meant it was a BS excuse. Look at some of the rosters Duncan had. See all of these "better" players he had around him during his prime and then look at their stats and ages. It wasn't as if he was surrounded with greatness. Sure Duncan had some better teams, but it wasn't as if they were great by any means. Either way I hate the BS argument of who had better teams, blah, blah, blah. That leads nowhere in a hurry because you could attempt to discount almost every championship team to have won. Bottom line is that Tim Duncan made those around him better and he lead them to victory. I wouldn't necessarily say the same for KG. There is always a reverse to every argument though. For example....If KG's teams were sooo terrible, is it possible he was just talented enough to have padded stats as he was the only one to be worth a damn? Not many would believe that, nor do many who know the game, think KG is better than Duncan. TD is widely regarded as the best PF to ever play the game. Live with it.


I don't agree with pretty much everything you are saying here. Duncan had more help than anyone not named Kobe over his career, while KG had 1 season with the help Duncan routinely enjoyed. Not making excuses for KG, he was part of the problem with the front office. But don't act like there wasn't a huge talent difference in the roster, coaching staff, and front office between the two.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 10:41 AM
If you are going to name Kerr, Barry, Mohammed, Udrih, Johnson and Rose then for KG I will name

Latrell Sprewell
Chauncey Billups
Wally Szczerbiak
Terrell Brandon
Joe Smith
Troy Hudson
Rasho Nesterovic
Sam Cassell
Ricky Davis

Szczerbiak averaged 18.7 ppg, 17.6 ppg, 15.5 ppg, and 20.1 ppg in a few seasons with Garnett.

Davis averaged nearly 20 ppg with Garnett one season.

Cassell averaged 20 and 7 one year with Garnett.

Sprewell averaged 17 one year with Garnett.


Garnett actually has had good talent around him. He has had many scorers around him, a big reason why he averages around 5 apg for his career.

And you can list Parker, Robinson, and Ginobli's seasons one by one (that is what you are doing here), and it will dwarf your post. KG never had the continuity that Duncan enjoyed with 2 HOF's next to him his whole career, and 1 HOF early. KG did not have Popovich, or the continued level of role players like Elliot, Horry, and the rest of the revolving door of guys only asked to play a role.

The roster support debate is a dying argument. You guys probably want to leave it alone.

theheatles
03-06-2012, 10:42 AM
Timmy D > KG it's debatable...




...but it really isn't

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 10:44 AM
Timmy D > KG it's debatable...




...but it really isn't

that is what I mean. I can argue you until I am blue in the face that KG is better, and I may even sell it to some. But the fact is, its going to be impossible to prove Kevin Garnett had a better individual career than Tim Duncan. I always wonder what happens if you switch teams on them, but that is pure speculation. Who knows.

kgformvp21
03-06-2012, 11:18 AM
Those were the days though when watching those to match up! Even though Duncan is great i still find him extremly boring to watch........like its not even fun...rather watch my 4 year old son on his fisher price hoop...hell of a jumpshot!

thekmp211
03-06-2012, 11:28 AM
You do that. I would take prime Duncan and win championships. People who rate KG over Duncan are insane. People act as if Duncan was surrounded by great players his whole career. DRob was already exiting his prime when Duncan came into the league and these "better" players(Gino, Parker, SJax) were nowhere near as good at that time as they ended up being. Duncan was surrounded by either really green players or old vets. Some tend to forget he wasn't a monster athletically like KG, but did more with less talent due to fundamentals, leadership, and intelligence.

what are you talking about? that sentence makes no sense. you're either good or you aren't. manu and parker are probably future hall of fame players and were essential to the spurs' success. Not to mention duncan has had pop coaching him his whole career. flip saunders was the cream of the crop in minnesota.

"did more with less talent" is just laughable. you can have your opinion that duncan is better, fine, but now you're just misinterpreting history. the difference between the spurs and the timberwolves over the course of KG and Duncans careers might as well be turned into a book called "how to run a mid-market basketball franchise." honestly, i don't think i've ever heard someone say that KG's wolves were more talented than the spurs. pretty hilarious.

thekmp211
03-06-2012, 11:35 AM
If you are going to name Kerr, Barry, Mohammed, Udrih, Johnson and Rose then for KG I will name

Latrell Sprewell
Chauncey Billups
Wally Szczerbiak
Terrell Brandon
Joe Smith
Troy Hudson
Rasho Nesterovic
Sam Cassell
Ricky Davis

Szczerbiak averaged 18.7 ppg, 17.6 ppg, 15.5 ppg, and 20.1 ppg in a few seasons with Garnett.

Davis averaged nearly 20 ppg with Garnett one season.

Cassell averaged 20 and 7 one year with Garnett.

Sprewell averaged 17 one year with Garnett.


Garnett actually has had good talent around him. He has had many scorers around him, a big reason why he averages around 5 apg for his career.

spree played for one year, and bolted
cassell had one good season, and was traded for jaric
wally sczcerbiak is not a good basketball player
terrell brandon suffered through injuries his whole career
joe smith...are you serious? a number 1 overall bust who cost them additional picks
troy hudson had one good playoff series in his career
rasho nesterovic...again really?
ricky davis is a cancer and moron, i don't care how many points he averaged with kg. he sucks

that isn't "good talent". that's pretty bad talent, and downright atrocious when you consider it represents the best of his teammates. now let me ad some other names to the list...

olowakandi. earving johnson. ndudi ebi. trenton hassell. mark madsen. anthony peeler. randy foye. i could go on forever.

an aging drob is better than anyone on that list. parker and ginobili are light-years ahead of anyone on that list. stephen jackson, bruce bowen, malik rose, robert horry, kurt thomas ... those are championship level role players. the difference is immense. there really is no debating it.

it doesn't mean you can definitively argue KG was better, but that minnesota was a terribly run franchise during his tenure there is not up for debate.

CudiOnMyiPod
03-06-2012, 11:52 AM
And you can list Parker, Robinson, and Ginobli's seasons one by one (that is what you are doing here), and it will dwarf your post. KG never had the continuity that Duncan enjoyed with 2 HOF's next to him his whole career, and 1 HOF early. KG did not have Popovich, or the continued level of role players like Elliot, Horry, and the rest of the revolving door of guys only asked to play a role.

The roster support debate is a dying argument. You guys probably want to leave it alone.

I'm not saying that he had Parker or Ginobili. I'm saying that it wasn't Garnett and a bunch of scrubs. He had some good players around him.

The same thing can be said for Dirk.

He led a team to the Finals with Terry starting at PG, Devin Harris who was a rookie playing PG, Josh Howard as the #2 who was one of the biggest chuckers in the league, Erick Dampier starting at center and role players like an aging Stackhous, Diop, Devean George, and Marquis Daniels.

Even this past season, it is amazing that Dirk led a team with Terry as the primary #2 to a Championship.

corky831
03-06-2012, 11:54 AM
^ This, what thekmp11 said. You can never judge anyone based off of championships....you gonna try and say Troy Aikmann is better than Marino then bc of his championships? stupid argument

thekmp211
03-06-2012, 11:55 AM
I'm not saying that he had Parker or Ginobili. I'm saying that it wasn't Garnett and a bunch of scrubs. He had some good players around him.

The same thing can be said for Dirk.

He led a team to the Finals with Terry starting at PG, Devin Harris who was a rookie playing PG, Josh Howard as the #2 who was one of the biggest chuckers in the league, Erick Dampier starting at center and role players like an aging Stackhous, Diop, Devean George, and Marquis Daniels.

Even this past season, it is amazing that Dirk led a team with Terry as the primary #2 to a Championship.


again, the mavericks rosters >>>>>> timberwolves rosters. he had "some" "decent" players around him, but no steve nash, no finley, no terry, no marion, no jamison, no stack, no marquis daniels, no josh howard, no antoine walker .. the difference between having players like that and having sczcerbiaks and hudsons is hugely, immesely, humungous. dirk and duncan have more comparable supporting casts than kg and dirk o kg and duncan. kg's best comp in terms of surrounding talent is lebrons tenure in cleveland.

you can make terry, harris and howard sound bad as much as you want...the fact is they were solid nba players, borderline all-stars. nothing like the supporting cast in minny.

corky831
03-06-2012, 11:56 AM
Garnett never had the talent that Duncan had....

Hugbees
03-06-2012, 12:05 PM
KG is the better passer, defender, rebounder, shot blocker, defender, ball hawk, and jump shooter.

1. KG
2. Duncan
3. Karl
4. Sir Charles

Does your name happen to be Ric Bucher?

Vee-Rex
03-06-2012, 12:27 PM
Rings, leadership, and basketball IQ.

Those are the only reasons why I can say that Duncan is the best PF of all time. Its funny I say that because charles barkley was my favorite player since I was 4 years old until he retired. Kevin garnett is my favorite player and has been since sir charles retired. Yet I have to give it to Timmy but kg is really really close. Kg was a beast in his prime and he still is good defensively.

Sactown
03-06-2012, 12:43 PM
Nobody can win 4 rings with a sub par roster.. Duncan had great help lol.. I still give the nod by a bit to Duncan. Although KG will always linger in the shadows because he wasn't in a big market and winning multiple championships. Sad that a top 4 all time PF practically went unnoticed

DragonJaii
03-06-2012, 02:47 PM
All time leader in illegal screens also.

kdspurman
03-06-2012, 03:13 PM
Do we think if Garnett had the same squad as Duncan did his championship years he has 4 titles?

Do we really think he would've had the mental toughness and killer instinct that Timmy did in 03 vs the Lakers when they were so dominant? Or in Game 7 vs the Pistons? Stats aside, and teams aside, Timmy always came through in big moments with a basket, block, assist, something.

KG (similarly to Malone) saw a dip in his production in the playoffs several years. How can you make a case for that when Tim's numbers went up?

I don't deny KG's greatness, but when you have 2 guys who are both great, and 1 shines in the post season and the other doesn't how can you make a case for the guy who doesn't?

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 03:52 PM
I'm not saying that he had Parker or Ginobili. I'm saying that it wasn't Garnett and a bunch of scrubs. He had some good players around him.

The same thing can be said for Dirk.

He led a team to the Finals with Terry starting at PG, Devin Harris who was a rookie playing PG, Josh Howard as the #2 who was one of the biggest chuckers in the league, Erick Dampier starting at center and role players like an aging Stackhous, Diop, Devean George, and Marquis Daniels.

Even this past season, it is amazing that Dirk led a team with Terry as the primary #2 to a Championship.

No, Dirk and Duncan were given championship level talent for multiple years. KG for 1. I really think its a losing battle trying to sell me, or any fan, the notion that KG ever had near the help Duncan or Dirk did. Hell, add Malone and Barkley to that list. KG finally got championship help again later in his career, and he won a ring. If you are one of those guys who only looks at their #2-3 options versus the whole roster and coach, the Spurs STILL crush the Wolves teams KG had.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 03:55 PM
Do we think if Garnett had the same squad as Duncan did his championship years he has 4 titles?

Do we really think he would've had the mental toughness and killer instinct that Timmy did in 03 vs the Lakers when they were so dominant? Or in Game 7 vs the Pistons? Stats aside, and teams aside, Timmy always came through in big moments with a basket, block, assist, something.

KG (similarly to Malone) saw a dip in his production in the playoffs several years. How can you make a case for that when Tim's numbers went up?

I don't deny KG's greatness, but when you have 2 guys who are both great, and 1 shines in the post season and the other doesn't how can you make a case for the guy who doesn't?

This is exactly what I mean. I can build you a 50 page case on why KG may have been the better player. But the fact is, Duncan had robotic stat line consistency, and was given the roster support to help him play a ton of playoff games through his prime, something KG did not do. So now we enter speculation world when trying to build a case for KG. Something I am not comfortable with, even as a die hard Wolves fan.

Your last line is true as well. KG's numbers dipped in the playoffs, Duncans stayed the same, some years better. Barkley may also be ahead of KG because of the same thing. The disparity in rebounding and defense is just too much for Dirk to move over KG.

Duncan
KG/Barkley
Malone
Dirk

smith&wesson
03-06-2012, 04:15 PM
duncan
barkley
garnet
dirk
malone

Cfrey
03-06-2012, 04:18 PM
dude, chill on the homerism. I can try and make a case for KG better than anyone most likely, but it still doesn't change the fact that Duncan had a more accomplished career. If you switch TD and KG on their respective teams, is KG the better PF? Maybe. But that is all speculation at this point. KG shrunk in the playoffs compared to TD and Barkley, so I have a tough time putting him over either, though a case can be made that KG's defensive dominance puts him ahead of Chuck. We are also talking about one of the greatest #2 options ever. KG shrunk in so many 4th quarters over his career, and rarely just took the game over late, something Wolves fans complained about forever. Hell, Kevin Love has 10x the killer instinct KG did. He was my favorite player for over a decade, but he had his faults.



How can you tell me to chill on the homerism?? This isn't about who had the better career because obviously Duncan is more accomplished but when judging the better player I take other things into account BECAUSE winning is not a one man accomplishment.. I'm sorry.

It would be one thing if this couldn't even be an argument.. but the fact of the matter is that IT CAN.

Duncan was LOADED with talent and I can't believe someone was trying to say Wally, Hudson, Latrell, Cassel, and others were relatable to the likes of Manu, Parker, Robinson, Horry, Barry and all the other help Duncan had hahahahahhahaha thats literally laughable.

Meaze_Gibson
03-06-2012, 04:39 PM
Do we think if Garnett had the same squad as Duncan did his championship years he has 4 titles?

Do we really think he would've had the mental toughness and killer instinct that Timmy did in 03 vs the Lakers when they were so dominant? Or in Game 7 vs the Pistons? Stats aside, and teams aside, Timmy always came through in big moments with a basket, block, assist, something.

KG (similarly to Malone) saw a dip in his production in the playoffs several years. How can you make a case for that when Tim's numbers went up?

I don't deny KG's greatness, but when you have 2 guys who are both great, and 1 shines in the post season and the other doesn't how can you make a case for the guy who doesn't?

Case Closed. I watched kg many of times pass up shots he should take. He didnt have the consistency a rookie parker or ginobli would have needed to develop. He is no doubt a great pf but I personally dont think he would have had the rings because he shrunk in the moment

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 04:42 PM
what are you talking about? that sentence makes no sense. you're either good or you aren't. manu and parker are probably future hall of fame players and were essential to the spurs' success. Not to mention duncan has had pop coaching him his whole career. flip saunders was the cream of the crop in minnesota.

"did more with less talent" is just laughable. you can have your opinion that duncan is better, fine, but now you're just misinterpreting history. the difference between the spurs and the timberwolves over the course of KG and Duncans careers might as well be turned into a book called "how to run a mid-market basketball franchise." honestly, i don't think i've ever heard someone say that KG's wolves were more talented than the spurs. pretty hilarious.

This is why typing an argument sucks at times. I meant he did more with less individual talent. He was nowhere near as talented athletically as KG, but is the better player for several reasons.

Big Time Titan
03-06-2012, 04:52 PM
Tim Duncan is better than Kevin Garnett for a number or reasons. Tim has more rings, MVPs, and he aint no loud mouth punk like KG is. Tim is humble and has played the game with class.

KG is also great but he's not in Tim's class.

Joshtd1
03-06-2012, 04:52 PM
1999 Championship team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/1999.html
There was no one "great" around him at the time except for Robinson, and even then he was already 4 years from retirement.

2003 Championship team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html
This time Duncan has a Robinson in the last year of his career, a Parker that is starting to blossom but not close to a star yet. A rookie Manu who is unknown. Stephen Jackson who was solid but not a star or anything. Bruce Bowen as the lockdown defender. Everyone else was a role player that wasn't that good. Still solid, but not great help at the time.

2005 Championship team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2005.html

Duncan has Parker starting to hit his prime and a Manu who is probably in his prime. Bowen still as a great defender. Everyone else on the team is a role player.

2007 Championship team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html
Again the big 3 are together, and Bowen is still there. He has solid role players around the team, but nothing great.

Duncan has had some help, but it's not all that great like some people want to make it out to be. Only 2 of his championships have come with TP/Manu being studs. Not denying he has had no help, but still..hasn't been great. IMO anyway.

Joshtd1
03-06-2012, 04:58 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=duncati01&y1=2012&p2=garneke01&y2=2012

KG and Duncan career wise. So not only does Duncan average more PPG/RPG, better FG/TS/EFG%, BPG, higher PER, only one less point lower for ORTG, but 4 better D rtg, better playoff stats, he's won more.

Sorry I don't think KG can be rated higher then Duncan

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 05:09 PM
No, Dirk and Duncan were given championship level talent for multiple years. KG for 1. I really think its a losing battle trying to sell me, or any fan, the notion that KG ever had near the help Duncan or Dirk did. Hell, add Malone and Barkley to that list. KG finally got championship help again later in his career, and he won a ring. If you are one of those guys who only looks at their #2-3 options versus the whole roster and coach, the Spurs STILL crush the Wolves teams KG had.

Of course Duncan had better teams, but they were mostly a revolving door of aged role players. It isn't as if they were all Scottie Pippens. Apparently, you had to be there to see some of those teams. You had to see the growing pains of TP & Gino and you had to see DRob on his last leg, or how bad defensively Brent Barry was, or that TD didn't have much in terms of a decent bigman next to him after DRob retired,(possibly Nazr for that 1 year, but dont even try to give arguments about Rasho, Fab,old Dice, or old KT), etc. The name on the jersey doesn't always equate to what should have been shown on the floor. But either way, and once again, of course Duncan had the superior teams, coaching staff, organization, hot dog stand, etc. I was stating it was a BS argument to use as to who is the better player IMO. From there on in I thought I was being sarcastic when one of the posters attempted to put Avery, Malik, etc. as these great players he had around him. Hell if you ask me, KG should have been that more dominant due to the fact he was surrounded by worse teams. Either way TD lead and willed his team to victory, whereas that could never be said of KG. Put KG on any Spurs team Duncan was on and I am not sure KG wins more than one ring. He was a fake tough guy who disappeared when it counted. But I will say that KG has aged better than Duncan.....

Joshtd1
03-06-2012, 05:15 PM
Of course Duncan had better teams, but they were mostly a revolving door of aged role players. It isn't as if they were all Scottie Pippens. Apparently, you had to be there to see some of those teams. You had to see the growing pains of TP & Gino and you had to see DRob on his last leg, or how bad defensively Brent Barry was, or that TD didn't have much in terms of a decent bigman next to him after DRob retired,(possibly Nazr for that 1 year, but dont even try to give arguments about Rasho, Fab,old Dice, or old KT), etc. The name on the jersey doesn't always equate to what should have been shown on the floor. But either way, and once again, of course Duncan had the superior teams, coaching staff, organization, hot dog stand, etc. I was stating it was a BS argument to use as to who is the better player IMO. From there on in I thought I was being sarcastic when one of the posters attempted to put Avery, Malik, etc. as these great players he had around him. Hell if you ask me, KG should have been that more dominant due to the fact he was surrounded by worse teams. Either way TD lead and willed his team to victory, whereas that could never be said of KG. Put KG on any Spurs team Duncan was on and I am not sure KG wins more than one ring. He was a fake tough guy who disappeared when it counted. But I will say that KG has aged better than Duncan.....

I think that part depends on how you're defining aged. In terms of production over the last couple of years they have been about even. I would have expected KG to though since he was primarily a jumpshooter his whole career and wouldn't have taken as much of a beating as Tim did.

ewing
03-06-2012, 05:26 PM
TD and KG are/were great 2 way basketball players. I dont think you ever could run and offensive through KG like you could though TD. Duncan could score from the post, distribute from the post, and control game tempo from the post. I dont think an offensive system could revolve around KG the way it did around Duncan when the Spurs needed it to. Nod TD

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 05:34 PM
How can you tell me to chill on the homerism?? This isn't about who had the better career because obviously Duncan is more accomplished but when judging the better player I take other things into account BECAUSE winning is not a one man accomplishment.. I'm sorry.

It would be one thing if this couldn't even be an argument.. but the fact of the matter is that IT CAN.

Duncan was LOADED with talent and I can't believe someone was trying to say Wally, Hudson, Latrell, Cassel, and others were relatable to the likes of Manu, Parker, Robinson, Horry, Barry and all the other help Duncan had hahahahahhahaha thats literally laughable.

Its been listed. Come playoffs, Duncan's game grew bigger, KG's shrank. That has nothing to do with their help, I am speaking of them individually. Their regular season numbers mirror each other, defensively as well, on a comparative level. But the playoffs separates their numbers.

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 05:37 PM
I think that part depends on how you're defining aged. In terms of production over the last couple of years they have been about even. I would have expected KG to though since he was primarily a jumpshooter his whole career and wouldn't have taken as much of a beating as Tim did.

Pretty much why.



As far as how well they aged I am going to ignore the stats and just go by what I see out of TD now. His numbers are decent, but he labors at times. He is visibly slowed down from what he was 3 years ago. The last 2 years is just another example of his will, leadership, and intelligence. He may not be as efficient as he once was, but he is still capable of big nights at times, and is still a quality big. I have only seen KG a handful of times this season, so perhaps I spoke out of my ***, but from what hear, he has had a nice superior stretch as of late. Then again, Duncan has looked better this year than he did the last.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 05:37 PM
Of course Duncan had better teams, but they were mostly a revolving door of aged role players. It isn't as if they were all Scottie Pippens. Apparently, you had to be there to see some of those teams. You had to see the growing pains of TP & Gino and you had to see DRob on his last leg, or how bad defensively Brent Barry was, or that TD didn't have much in terms of a decent bigman next to him after DRob retired,(possibly Nazr for that 1 year, but dont even try to give arguments about Rasho, Fab,old Dice, or old KT), etc. The name on the jersey doesn't always equate to what should have been shown on the floor. But either way, and once again, of course Duncan had the superior teams, coaching staff, organization, hot dog stand, etc. I was stating it was a BS argument to use as to who is the better player IMO. From there on in I thought I was being sarcastic when one of the posters attempted to put Avery, Malik, etc. as these great players he had around him. Hell if you ask me, KG should have been that more dominant due to the fact he was surrounded by worse teams. Either way TD lead and willed his team to victory, whereas that could never be said of KG. Put KG on any Spurs team Duncan was on and I am not sure KG wins more than one ring. He was a fake tough guy who disappeared when it counted. But I will say that KG has aged better than Duncan.....


I have watched almost every Wolves game in their history, and I can tell you the majority of what Kevin Garnett played with was overpaid role players. He had some help in 03-04' championship help. But its not comparable to Duncan't help over the course of his career in the slightest.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 05:39 PM
1999 Championship team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/1999.html
There was no one "great" around him at the time except for Robinson, and even then he was already 4 years from retirement.

2003 Championship team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html
This time Duncan has a Robinson in the last year of his career, a Parker that is starting to blossom but not close to a star yet. A rookie Manu who is unknown. Stephen Jackson who was solid but not a star or anything. Bruce Bowen as the lockdown defender. Everyone else was a role player that wasn't that good. Still solid, but not great help at the time.

2005 Championship team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2005.html

Duncan has Parker starting to hit his prime and a Manu who is probably in his prime. Bowen still as a great defender. Everyone else on the team is a role player.

2007 Championship team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html
Again the big 3 are together, and Bowen is still there. He has solid role players around the team, but nothing great.

Duncan has had some help, but it's not all that great like some people want to make it out to be. Only 2 of his championships have come with TP/Manu being studs. Not denying he has had no help, but still..hasn't been great. IMO anyway.


compare that to other championship teams, you will find that Tim had plenty of great help. Not every single season, but during their championship runs, he sure did. The other thing being left out continually by some of you guys is a man named Greg Popovich.

Joshtd1
03-06-2012, 05:43 PM
compare that to other championship teams, you will find that Tim had plenty of great help. Not every single season, but during their championship runs, he sure did. The other thing being left out continually by some of you guys is a man named Greg Popovich.

If you don't mind, could you list some of the championship teams? Pretty much every championship team is going to have some help. I don't think he's had great help though. Good yes

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 05:45 PM
I have watched almost every Wolves game in their history, and I can tell you the majority of what Kevin Garnett played with was overpaid role players. He had some help in 03-04' championship help. But its not comparable to Duncan't help over the course of his career in the slightest.

Thats great. I am simply stating that everyone tends to exaggerate the level of talent that TD has had and the fact that it is a poor argument on how you compare the 2 players.

You have stated the fact that their stats mirror each other, but KG shrunk when it counted and TD thrived. That in itself should be enough for most. Factor in that KG and TD's numbers are so similar and KG was the only dominant force on his teams and still couldn't surpass those stat lines and it seals the deal for me.

UnWantedTheory
03-06-2012, 05:47 PM
compare that to other championship teams, you will find that Tim had plenty of great help. Not every single season, but during their championship runs, he sure did. The other thing being left out continually by some of you guys is a man named Greg Popovich.

Your right that TD has had a great coach. Pop made Duncan and Duncan made Pop. It is a great relationship.

Leftcoast_yg
03-06-2012, 05:59 PM
let me just say this, put a prime KG on last seasons championship team instead of dirk
Kidd
Terry
Marion
Garnett
Chandler

can u imagine how good that defense would be?
KG>Dirk

And would be the worst 4th qt offensive lineup, have u ever seen KG make a big time shot late in the 4th qt since he left minny???
1.Duncan
2Malone
3.Mchale
4.Dirk
5.KG

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 06:13 PM
Thats great. I am simply stating that everyone tends to exaggerate the level of talent that TD has had and the fact that it is a poor argument on how you compare the 2 players.

You have stated the fact that their stats mirror each other, but KG shrunk when it counted and TD thrived. That in itself should be enough for most. Factor in that KG and TD's numbers are so similar and KG was the only dominant force on his teams and still couldn't surpass those stat lines and it seals the deal for me.

Name me one player other then Kobe who has enjoyed as much talent around him as Duncan since he came into the league. Good luck. And honestly, that part should only be used when talking about Duncan's winning, not a comparison between the two. Its a mute point.

Yes, the difference is, Duncan's game gets better in the playoffs, KG's shrinks. Case closed. I honestly don't defend KG like I used to, I think he is a douche, but as a Wolves fan, I have to appreciate what he did for us and how good he really was.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 06:16 PM
Greg Popovich. Just wanted to throw that name out there one more time. Who do you thinks gets more out of lesser players of the following coaches?

Flip Saunders
Kevin McHale
Dwane Casey
Randy Wittman

Greg Popovich

Who would you rather run the front office?

McHale
R.C. Buford

Hawkeye15
03-06-2012, 06:17 PM
And would be the worst 4th qt offensive lineup, have u ever seen KG make a big time shot late in the 4th qt since he left minny???
1.Duncan
2Malone
3.Mchale
4.Dirk
5.KG

I think Kevin Love may pass him on game winners any day. KG never took last second shots, he ran the other way. Biggest criticism Wolves fans had of him.

Joshtd1
03-06-2012, 06:22 PM
Pop has to get more from lesser players because no studs ever want to play here so we have to find diamonds in the rough.

KingPosey
03-06-2012, 06:38 PM
That's why I said they were interchangeable.

Garnett is the better overall player with defense standing out.

Dirk is the better offensive and clutch player.

People would look at rebounding and say Garnett absolutely blows Dirk out of the water but Dirk has averaged 8-9 rpg his career.

Garnett didn't do a whole lot in terms of winning with the Wolves and finally won with Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo.

Dirk stuck with his team bunch of old veterans and led them to a championship last year.

I'd say Dirk and KG are 4a and 4b.
You cant do that just because Dirk didnt win with all the stacked teams the Mavs had in the past, and he eventually got there with last year's team. Dirk played on some stacked teams.

UnWantedTheory
03-07-2012, 12:24 AM
Name me one player other then Kobe who has enjoyed as much talent around him as Duncan since he came into the league. Good luck. And honestly, that part should only be used when talking about Duncan's winning, not a comparison between the two. Its a mute point.

Yes, the difference is, Duncan's game gets better in the playoffs, KG's shrinks. Case closed. I honestly don't defend KG like I used to, I think he is a douche, but as a Wolves fan, I have to appreciate what he did for us and how good he really was.

Why do I care about other teams talent when I consider that particular argument comparing TD and KG individually complete BS?
Since we finally agree that it is a moot point there is no reason to continue.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2012, 12:49 AM
Pop has to get more from lesser players because no studs ever want to play here so we have to find diamonds in the rough.

Well, your team drafted great, and had great management for 15 years. That is how small markets win.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2012, 12:50 AM
Why do I care about other teams talent when I consider that particular argument comparing TD and KG individually complete BS?
Since we finally agree that it is a moot point there is no reason to continue.

agreed, I was just enamored that anyone would suggest they had even remotely equal talent (KG's Wolves tenure only).

But yes, the separation comes from their playoff numbers being different.

ewing
03-07-2012, 01:48 AM
Greg Popovich. Just wanted to throw that name out there one more time. Who do you thinks gets more out of lesser players of the following coaches?

Flip Saunders
Kevin McHale
Dwane Casey
Randy Wittman

Greg Popovich

Who would you rather run the front office?

McHale
R.C. Buford


You know who else makes role players better? Tim Duncan

MGB
03-07-2012, 02:34 AM
As far as true PF's go hes prolly the best, Barkley was a freak SF capable of playing the 4 while Duncan was a Center who played the 4. So yea I can buy KG as the best if those 2 arent competing.

This.

I'd agree that KG is probably arguably the best PF of all time. TD shouldn't be looked at as a 4 though; for all intents and purposes, he's a 5.

UnWantedTheory
03-07-2012, 03:33 AM
This.

I'd agree that KG is probably arguably the best PF of all time. TD shouldn't be looked at as a 4 though; for all intents and purposes, he's a 5.

Well if you want to look at it that way, its ok by me. TD is still the better player.

Patman
03-07-2012, 05:07 AM
You can bend it every way you want to, but career wise Duncan is ahead of Garnett period. Duncan has higher PPG/RPG/BPG/FG%/TS%/EFG%/TRB%/PER/DRTG/DWS/ WS48. He leads Garnett in nearly all relevant statistics, Garnett avarages 1 more assist and 0.5 stl more then duncan that's it.

So opposed to some opinions here Duncan was/is the better Rebounder, shotblocker and Defender.

They are close but then you check their playoff stats and Duncan just pulls away. I just don't see it honestly even without the accolades.

naps
03-07-2012, 05:43 AM
I see people here underrate Malone (may be because most of them never seen him play). Or may be the fact that he never won a ship also plays a role in it since a lot of people think if you have rings you are still the best even if you are on your 15th+ year.

Anyway, my top 4 would be:

Duncan
Malone
Barkley
Garnett

69centers
03-07-2012, 08:55 AM
As far as true PF's go hes prolly the best, Barkley was a freak SF capable of playing the 4 while Duncan was a Center who played the 4. So yea I can buy KG as the best if those 2 arent competing.

Agreed


Tim Duncan is better!


Well if you want to look at it that way, its ok by me. TD is still the better player.

TD is fundamentally better, but KG is more athletic, vocal, and energetic. A much better team leader. A much better player for a fan to watch, too. TD is probably the most boring all time great of all time.

surf and turf
03-07-2012, 09:20 AM
Duncan ..Malone..Garnette..Dirk..i struggle to put Barkley top 5. He was short. Could not shoot very well. Got a little better later in his career but all those other guys were incredible shooters and besides Dirk were better finishers at the rim. Barkley was a handful in transition. Sort of like Lebron is now. If he got the ball full speed people got out of the way. And he was decent on defense there was no zone then. So he got posted up alot by guys much bigger then him.

surf and turf
03-07-2012, 09:25 AM
Agreed





TD is fundamentally better, but KG is more athletic, vocal, and energetic. A much better team leader. A much better player for a fan to watch, too. TD is probably the most boring all time great of all time.

Saying Duncan was boring was like saying Kevin McChale. and .Hakeem were boring. They all lived off the turn around /up and under. Its a lost art from HS to the pros now adays. I have a 6th grader im trying to work on his post game. He thinks its easier to put the shoulder down and jump stop.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-07-2012, 09:36 AM
I think Duncan is better.


But Garnett is top 3, IMO.

kdspurman
03-07-2012, 10:15 AM
Agreed





TD is fundamentally better, but KG is more athletic, vocal, and energetic. A much better team leader. A much better player for a fan to watch, too. TD is probably the most boring all time great of all time.

This shows me either 1. You just started watching basketball a couple years ago, or 2. You just don't understand basketball all too well.

What makes KG a "better player" for a fan to watch? Cause he beats his chest after he does something? What am I missing? Did you not watch Tim Duncan in his prime?

What makes KG a "Much better team leader"? His ability to make teammates cry? :D Is KG the type of guy who makes his teammates better? Or get the best out of them? Tim Duncan leads by example. His selflessness, consistency, and will to win carried throughout his teammates. He is virtually ego-less and is probably one of the best leaders to play the game. KG is not close to his level in that department.

Athletic (again this is debatable as Tim was very athletic in his prime)
Vocal (again Timmy was a lead by example kind of guy. Always has his teammates respect. CAn you say the same for KG?)
Energetic (See athletic response)

Some of you guys are making respectable comparisons. Some of the arguments are complete garbage. KG can definitely have a case for #2 and the argument can be made for #1. But the evidence just does not support it. BTW no one should be putting Dirk ahead of KG. (Barely top 5 of all time)

NYKnicks4511
03-07-2012, 10:43 AM
KG is the better passer, defender, rebounder, shot blocker, ball hawk, and jump shooter.


Yes, maybe, no, no, ?, yes.

4 rings > 1. 'Nuff said. Tim Duncan is the GOAT of PFs.

ManningToTyree
03-07-2012, 11:05 AM
Duncan, Malone and Barkley are all better.

BULLSFAN0810
03-07-2012, 11:39 AM
I swear ppl on here are dumb as PHIZZUCK! NOT ONLY IS KG SUPERIOR HE IS UNDER RATED......KG ON BAD TEAM HIS WHOLE LIFESPAN ALMOST. EVEN WITH A BAD LEG AND PPL SAYING KG IS DONE IS PLAYING HARDER AND HAS MORE OF A ROLE THAN DUNCAN NOW. DUNCAN BENFITTED FROM MANU & PARKER OF WHOM I DONT LIKE BUT I CAN SAY IS A GAMER...IMO IF YOUR 27 AND YOUNGER YOU SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT A PLAYER 5 YEARS AND OLDER,BECAUSE IN MOST CASES

1. YOU DONT KNOW WTF YOURE TALKING ABOUT

2.YOU HAVENT EVEN SEEN THE PLAYER HIS WHOLE LIFSPAN IN THE NBA...I.E PPL SAYING WADE IS BETTER THAN KOBE...KOBE DROPPED 81..GOT RINGS...LBJ IS GOD...BUT GRANT HILL STATISTICALLY AND GAME WISE WAS BETTER IMO...HALF THE PPL ON HERE CANT REFRENCE 10 YEARS BACK..OR EVEN 5,SO DEBATING THEM IS UNPRODUCTIVE.

omdigga
03-07-2012, 11:50 AM
its a good debate..

i used to like KG better (when on the wolves) and still one of my favorite players, but have to admit would pick TD over him. You win either way, but Duncan is the unltimate professional.

kdspurman
03-07-2012, 12:15 PM
I swear ppl on here are dumb as PHIZZUCK! NOT ONLY IS KG SUPERIOR HE IS UNDER RATED......KG ON BAD TEAM HIS WHOLE LIFESPAN ALMOST. EVEN WITH A BAD LEG AND PPL SAYING KG IS DONE IS PLAYING HARDER AND HAS MORE OF A ROLE THAN DUNCAN NOW. DUNCAN BENFITTED FROM MANU & PARKER OF WHOM I DONT LIKE BUT I CAN SAY IS A GAMER...IMO IF YOUR 27 AND YOUNGER YOU SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT A PLAYER 5 YEARS AND OLDER,BECAUSE IN MOST CASES

1. YOU DONT KNOW WTF YOURE TALKING ABOUT

2.YOU HAVENT EVEN SEEN THE PLAYER HIS WHOLE LIFSPAN IN THE NBA...I.E PPL SAYING WADE IS BETTER THAN KOBE...KOBE DROPPED 81..GOT RINGS...LBJ IS GOD...BUT GRANT HILL STATISTICALLY AND GAME WISE WAS BETTER IMO...HALF THE PPL ON HERE CANT REFRENCE 10 YEARS BACK..OR EVEN 5,SO DEBATING THEM IS UNPRODUCTIVE.

:speechless:

I knew you looked familiar. You're the same guy who said Sheed, C-Webb and Timmy are equals. :laugh:

and Timmy wasn't better than McHale


ugh..see you guys call troll but cant read..never said better..said just as good or better

and yes i think KG is BETTER, OR BARKLEY...HELL, i THINK SHEED AND TIMMY ARE EQUALS...TRADE SHEED FOR TIMMY IN S.A POP STILL WINS THE SAME AMOUNT OF SHIPS..DO YOU GET IT? HIS COACH IS A WINNER.MALONE IMO SHOULD GET YOU BANNED IF YOU SAY THE GUY WHO TRAILED MJ ALMOST 20 YEARS IN SCORING WHO HAD THE BEST PG GETTING HIM FREEBIES ISNT BETTER THAN DUNCAN..i just think DUNCAN is TOP TEN BUT NOT 1..

HELL DUNCAN ISNT BETTER THAN KEVIN MCHALE....TOP THAT!



1.Duncan had Robinson ...2 seven footers with Elliot at sf(one of the better sf in his day)..Ellie at sg..an elite defender at his time...Bruce Bowen,Tony Parker..Manu..Stephen Jackson...yeah Timmy ALWAYS HAD HELP AT MORE THAN ONE POSITION. MAlone had Stockton,and hornacek..IN UTAH..LOST TO THE DREAM KILLER MICHEAL JORDAN...IF MJ WASNT AROUND MALONE WAS THE BEST IN THE GAME..LOOK AT REB,PTS LEADER..FOR 10 plus years you see MJ 1, Malone 2..rebounding etc...in UTAH

2.KG was in Minnesota,they killed sooo much of his carreer. the year they got an old Sam Cassell, And SPREEWELL,they went 1 game from finals..with a little help KG was very formidable...So as i see it IMO KG was better than Duncan..dude was for years almost at a triple double 20 10 6 at PF...IN MINESOTA

3.Barkley was not great defender..but he was a awesome rebounder and scorer...dude was AN LBJ FASTBREAK B4 LBJ WAS BORN..Barkley would rebound,and go coast to coast for the dunk...Dreams shattered by dream killer MJ.

4.And....IF YOU SAY WEBBER ISNT GREAT...IM SORRY YOURE A HATER..HIS RESUME WITHOUT AN SHIP IS GREAT...FAB 5...CHANGED NBA FROM COLLEGE...CHANGED THE GAME PERIOD..EVEN TILL THIS DAY..LITTLE KIDS DONT GET WHY THEY TRY TO DRESS UP WHILE HOOPING....FAB 5...CHRIS WEBBER..LONG SHORTS,BLACK SOCKS , BlackShoes..But even if that not the topic..every level he was a starter and the main man on his team...he was a franchise player...his team every year was in the mix to win it...but they ran into the dream killer 2.0 KOBE/Shaq..you can compare the stats.

BUT WITH THAT ALL TYPED...HERE ARE THE CONSTANTS: MJ/SHAQ/KOBE KILLED ALOTTA PPLS DREAMS....DUNCAN NEVER WENT THROUGH L.A AND WON IT ALL..SO HOW IS HE BETTER THAN ANY OF THE FORMENTIONED PFs...THEY WERE BEAT BY L.A ALL THE OTHER GUYS LOST IN MOST CASES TO MJ/SHAQ/KOBE DIRECTLY ..WHILE DUNCAN AVOIDED SHAQ...WHO MADE DUNCAN AND ALL ON THIS LIST NULL..SO IMO DUNCAN GETS THE BENEFIT OF WINNING BUT DIDNT DIRECTLY KILL HIS ENEMY..HE NEVER OVER CAME SHAQ.

BULLSFAN0810
03-07-2012, 02:07 PM
:speechless:

I knew you looked familiar. You're the same guy who said Sheed, C-Webb and Timmy are equals. :laugh:

and Timmy wasn't better than McHale


yeah...i can said it....you can plug in any of the names you stated and you can see the outcome prob wont change...plug in Sheed with Robinson ...outcome ...id guess SAME

CWEBB...SAME...

YOU DONT GET HOW GOOD ROBINSON IS/WAS ...TOP 50 PLAYER..OR ARE YOU TOOO YOUNG TO REMEMBER THAT?

And as far as McHALE ..ask any players 80s until mid 90s who was best post scorer or hardest to guard....answer go

Hakeem Olajuwan...Kevin McHale

You ask the same players most IMO better than Duncan why,theyd say so...footwork agility and lenght along with skill...All you hear is Duncan is fundamentally sound....Im not knocking Duncan Skill. But the 90s was filled with decent guys fundamentally sound... I cant ever remember a top tier player ,playing another top tier player and get dominated like Duncan has on occassion by other players,sometimes lesser


I.E. STAT DID HIM IN.....PF from THE GRIZZ BOMB HIM AND TOLD HIM...Yeah Timmy is OLD BUT he shouldnve ever let Stat or Grizz PF kill him repeatedly without no get back.....NO GET BACK

kdspurman
03-07-2012, 02:19 PM
yeah...i can said it....you can plug in any of the names you stated and you can see the outcome prob wont change...plug in Sheed with Robinson ...outcome ...id guess SAME

CWEBB...SAME...

YOU DONT GET HOW GOOD ROBINSON IS/WAS ...TOP 50 PLAYER..OR ARE YOU TOOO YOUNG TO REMEMBER THAT?

And as far as McHALE ..ask any players 80s until mid 90s who was best post scorer or hardest to guard....answer go

Hakeem Olajuwan...Kevin McHale

You ask the same players most IMO better than Duncan why,theyd say so...footwork agility and lenght along with skill...All you hear is Duncan is fundamentally sound....Im not knocking Duncan Skill. But the 90s was filled with decent guys fundamentally sound... I cant ever remember a top tier player ,playing another top tier player and get dominated like Duncan has on occassion by other players,sometimes lesser


I.E. STAT DID HIM IN.....PF from THE GRIZZ BOMB HIM AND TOLD HIM...Yeah Timmy is OLD BUT he shouldnve ever let Stat or Grizz PF kill him repeatedly without no get back.....NO GET BACK

I've been watching basketball 20+ years man. I know how good Robinson was. NO get back? Did you see the numbers Timmy put up on the Suns during their battles? Shows you have no clue what you're talking about. And Tim was the only one who defended Zach/Marc well. They were feasting on Bonner/Blair. BTW, neither of them would have had that much success during his prime. Those guys are in their prime now. You can't look at that.

I'm really starting to question if maybe you JUST started watching basketball like last year. You can talk about Hakeem and McHale all you want, but my guess is you've never watched either of them other than whatever YouTube videos you found.

BULLSFAN0810
03-07-2012, 02:30 PM
I've been watching basketball 20+ years man. I know how good Robinson was. NO get back? Did you see the numbers Timmy put up on the Suns during their battles? Shows you have no clue what you're talking about. And Tim was the only one who defended Zach/Marc well. They were feasting on Bonner/Blair. BTW, neither of them would have had that much success during his prime. Those guys are in their prime now. You can't look at that.

I'm really starting to question if maybe you JUST started watching basketball like last year. You can talk about Hakeem and McHale all you want, but my guess is you've never watched either of them other than whatever YouTube videos you found.

OK..Me and you feel diffrent about Duncan. I feel he is top 10. I feel KG is more dynamic. I feel neither REALLY is better than other,but ID go with KG bc his versatily,and in his youth DEFENSIVELY could guard PG to C. Im not saying Duncan is wack but his rivals either played in a more competitive era or where just as SKILLED.But if youre going off just SHIPs,then yeah. Im going off SKILL,and i take in to accountability of SHIPs.Sothere wher our thought process seems to collide.But to each its on .

Meaze_Gibson
03-07-2012, 02:35 PM
C webb had like 5 good playoff years. Duncan had 10. and dont front like cwebb aint have help too.

And shame on you for mentioning Sheed. (who also had help)
Sheed only averaged more than 20 points 1 time in his career and never averaged more than 9 boards in any season. He is nowhere near Duncan in terms of scoring, rebounding, and consistency. And you say he would have had all the rings Duncan has? The same Tim Duncan who beat the dreamkillers 2.0

Name me a playoff in Tim Duncan's rookie year through his prime where he didnt show up at all. I'll wait.

BULLSFAN0810
03-07-2012, 02:51 PM
C webb had like 5 good playoff years. Duncan had 10. and dont front like cwebb aint have help too.

And shame on you for mentioning Sheed. (who also had help)
Sheed only averaged more than 20 points 1 time in his career and never averaged more than 9 boards in any season. He is nowhere near Duncan in terms of scoring, rebounding, and consistency. And you say he would have had all the rings Duncan has? The same Tim Duncan who beat the dreamkillers 2.0

Name me a playoff in Tim Duncan's rookie year through his prime where he didnt show up at all. I'll wait.


look....im not saying duncan is wack...but he is a 7 foot pf. I dont know about you guys but to me thats really center.Not because his height,but because his build. I view Duncan as Center. He played majority of his game LOW POST. When he played Shaq...he went HIGH POST(SHAQ WAS THAT DOMINATE....THINK ABOUT IT). Centers score on the block, PF shoot 15-18 footers(Not Saying its law but thats how it usually goes). So when i see Duncan I see him as A VERY VERY fundamentallyy sound player,a HOFer. Not better than Ewing, Shaq, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, KG..EQUAL TO SHEED...Sheed JUST PLAYED ENOUGH JUST LIKE DUNCAN DOES NOW!

Meaze_Gibson
03-07-2012, 02:52 PM
Imma fan of kg but td was just another monster..

2002-3003 playoffs
Tim Duncan
25 pts 15 brds 5 assists 53%

Tony Parker
15 pts 4brds 2 ast 40%

Steven Jackson
12 pts 4bds 2ast 41%

Ginobli
9pts 4bds 3 ast 38%

David Robinson
8pts 6brds 1 ast 54%

...yet he had outrageous help, right? Please

Kg will go down as the 2-4th best pf ever though

BULLSFAN0810
03-07-2012, 02:56 PM
C webb had like 5 good playoff years. Duncan had 10. and dont front like cwebb aint have help too.

And shame on you for mentioning Sheed. (who also had help)
Sheed only averaged more than 20 points 1 time in his career and never averaged more than 9 boards in any season. He is nowhere near Duncan in terms of scoring, rebounding, and consistency. And you say he would have had all the rings Duncan has? The same Tim Duncan who beat the dreamkillers 2.0

Name me a playoff in Tim Duncan's rookie year through his prime where he didnt show up at all. I'll wait.



SHEED was soo cold...his post game was butter,he got to the point where he started shooting threes like Dirk and hitting them at a good clip for his size and position.Sheed was ALMOST a case of the VINCE CARTERS

BULLSFAN0810
03-07-2012, 03:04 PM
Imma fan of kg but td was just another monster..

2002-3003 playoffs
Tim Duncan
25 pts 15 brds 5 assists 53%

Tony Parker
15 pts 4brds 2 ast 40%

Steven Jackson
12 pts 4bds 2ast 41%

Ginobli
9pts 4bds 3 ast 38%

David Robinson
8pts 6brds 1 ast 54%

...yet he had outrageous help, right? Please

Kg will go down as the 2-4th best pf ever though

in basket ball.......ONCE A DOMINATE PLAYER LOSES HIS PRESSENCE HE THEN IS USELESS AS A PLAYER. Im not saying Duncan is wack,NOR am i saying Robinson is GOD. What im saying is this....ROBINSON,GOT ALL THE REBOUNDS(PRESSENCE) Duncan Scored all the points. Robinson knew,he was good enough to still effectively protect the rim,and with another 7 footer as good as Duncan it would be easier...Robinson still had pressence..Pressence is reflexes the ability to still do your duty. And what goes along with pressence is respect. Robinson was a respected shot blocker,ELITE IF YOU WILL.So ROBINSON DID IT LIKE THIS...i GOT IT DOWN HERE ON THE BOARDS YOU SCORE THE POINTS...LET THE YOUNG BOY CARRY THE LOAD AND I know I CAN BACK HIM UP.Duncan is great,but as i see it i veiw him as a center who played PF,and if i put him against other PF in same class i dont see him as better.And no matter the box score that was the thought process. Its sorta what Duncan is doing now.

Lakersfan2483
03-07-2012, 03:05 PM
KG is a top 5 forward of all time. I have him behind Duncan, Malone, Barkley and Petit.

thedfactor
03-07-2012, 03:28 PM
Those are definitely impressive stats without a doubt. I feel though there are better PFs in NBA history for sure. I'd go Tim Duncan as better and Dirk and KG amazing in their own way about equal.

Joshtd1
03-07-2012, 03:35 PM
look....im not saying duncan is wack...but he is a 7 foot pf. I dont know about you guys but to me thats really center.Not because his height,but because his build. I view Duncan as Center. He played majority of his game LOW POST. When he played Shaq...he went HIGH POST(SHAQ WAS THAT DOMINATE....THINK ABOUT IT). Centers score on the block, PF shoot 15-18 footers(Not Saying its law but thats how it usually goes). So when i see Duncan I see him as A VERY VERY fundamentallyy sound player,a HOFer. Not better than Ewing, Shaq, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, KG..EQUAL TO SHEED...Sheed JUST PLAYED ENOUGH JUST LIKE DUNCAN DOES NOW!

Please stop.

You saying Duncan is = to Sheed just ruins any argument you have. Sheed could have been great, but that was his own fault for not being great.

Webber was a damn stud, but he had a **** load of help as well and couldn't win the big one.

Duncan is better than Ewing.

Shaq and Hakeem are debatable, but that's not the debate here, its between him and KG.

Barkley no.

Bos_Sports4Life
03-07-2012, 03:40 PM
KGi s the 2nd best PF of all time..

He ran the freaking point in Minn at times and than posted up..dude was expected to do EVERYTHING..

BULLSFAN0810
03-07-2012, 08:14 PM
KGi s the 2nd best PF of all time..

He ran the freaking point in Minn at times and than posted up..dude was expected to do EVERYTHING..

+1 with Malone being 1 by body of work and level of comp

BULLSFAN0810
03-07-2012, 08:24 PM
Please stop.

You saying Duncan is = to Sheed just ruins any argument you have. Sheed could have been great, but that was his own fault for not being great.

Webber was a damn stud, but he had a **** load of help as well and couldn't win the big one.

Duncan is better than Ewing.

Shaq and Hakeem are debatable, but that's not the debate here, its between him and KG.

Barkley no.

Ewing was a very formidible Center..Damn ppl down talk Ewing bc he has no ring? WOW! look at Ewings skill.In High school he was the best polished game of ANY HIGH SCHOOLER EVER ...EVEN TIL THIS DAY,LBJ INCLUDED.Im from Chicago,and i even respect his game...Ewing was a defensive beast that became a low scoring monster,then he added a 15 footer...do you know how skilled Ewing really was compared to Duncan or do you just see rings?


IMO Sheed won a ring,he is the convo...why is Dirk in the convo with him being soft for years? Any player that wins usually gets put in the convo of rank but Sheed isnt?! why his tude? because skill for skill he was a hard cover.

Shaq and Hakeem imo isnt debateable...Duncan couldnt guard Shaq..point blank...Never stood up chest to chest...couldnt stand up to SHAQ...Hakkem out played Shaq in the finals.....Hakeem>Shaq<Duncan_<Sheed...._<= Greater than or equal to

Chronz
03-07-2012, 09:20 PM
Saying Duncan was boring was like saying Kevin McChale. and .Hakeem were boring. They all lived off the turn around /up and under. Its a lost art from HS to the pros now adays. I have a 6th grader im trying to work on his post game. He thinks its easier to put the shoulder down and jump stop.

Hakeem was far from boring, he played more like a guard than those guys did.

raiderfaninTX
03-07-2012, 09:37 PM
hmm KG had to leave his team and go join 2 other all stars to win hmmm I wonder where ive heard this argument before

haha the nba forum is funny

so we only hold it against lebron no one else.

but its ok kg is the best ever at his position with one of the best 3pt shooters at his side and another hof player

but duncan did it with manu and parker

kdspurman
03-07-2012, 09:39 PM
Hakeem was far from boring, he played more like a guard than those guys did.

Definitely. But Timmy was far from boring too. He was a beast in his prime. Guys are boring cause they don't beat their chests or scream, or all that other foolishness. It's a shame how people think stuff like that.

Joshtd1
03-07-2012, 10:11 PM
Ewing was a very formidible Center..Damn ppl down talk Ewing bc he has no ring? WOW! look at Ewings skill.In High school he was the best polished game of ANY HIGH SCHOOLER EVER ...EVEN TIL THIS DAY,LBJ INCLUDED.Im from Chicago,and i even respect his game...Ewing was a defensive beast that became a low scoring monster,then he added a 15 footer...do you know how skilled Ewing really was compared to Duncan or do you just see rings?

Yes I know how good Ewing was, Im not disupting his skill. Him not winning a ring certainly hurts his stock as who is better though. The way you make it seem as if Duncan is average.


IMO Sheed won a ring,he is the convo...why is Dirk in the convo with him being soft for years? Any player that wins usually gets put in the convo of rank but Sheed isnt?! why his tude? because skill for skill he was a hard cover.

Ok Sheed won a ring, but that doesn't make him better or = to then Duncan. Or KG. Or Dirk. Or Malone or Barkeley or any other all time great PF. Sheed could have been up there, but was too much of a head case and was lazy. Didn't put it all together.


Shaq and Hakeem imo isnt debateable...Duncan couldnt guard Shaq..point blank...Never stood up chest to chest...couldnt stand up to SHAQ...Hakkem out played Shaq in the finals.....Hakeem>Shaq<Duncan_<Sheed...._<= Greater than or equal to

Duncan couldn't guard Shaq. No one could really guard Shaq in his prime, what's your point? Duncan out played Wallace in the finals, who beat Shaq the year before so by your logic that should mean he's better.

BULLSFAN0810
03-08-2012, 04:38 AM
hmm KG had to leave his team and go join 2 other all stars to win hmmm I wonder where ive heard this argument before

haha the nba forum is funny

so we only hold it against lebron no one else.

but its ok kg is the best ever at his position with one of the best 3pt shooters at his side and another hof player

but duncan did it with manu and parker


LBJ LEFT HIS HOME TEAM AT THE AGE OF 25-26.It was excepted,at the age of 29 ish a player who didnt win and LED a team then left and sought a ring elsewhere wasnt frowned upon. It was ok for Barkley bc he was in his late 20s,he tried to lead Philly.Philly was a bad franchise. LBJ left a 60 win team,it wasnt like the team was as bad as ppl made it. The team was built for him and his skill set. Surround him w stand still shooters,high energy guys,and on outlet player that could assume some of the duties.LBJ failed in Clev bc he didnt progress skill wise like he is "TRYING" to do in Miami.


Duncan did it with Robinson too...Hell, duncan came into a team already Playoff/West conf finals ready.Spurs,just got lucky and Robinson was hurt the year prior and Duncan fell to them. The squad wasnt bad.

UnWantedTheory
03-08-2012, 06:16 AM
Ewing was a very formidible Center..Damn ppl down talk Ewing bc he has no ring? WOW! look at Ewings skill.In High school he was the best polished game of ANY HIGH SCHOOLER EVER ...EVEN TIL THIS DAY,LBJ INCLUDED.Im from Chicago,and i even respect his game...Ewing was a defensive beast that became a low scoring monster,then he added a 15 footer...do you know how skilled Ewing really was compared to Duncan or do you just see rings?


IMO Sheed won a ring,he is the convo...why is Dirk in the convo with him being soft for years? Any player that wins usually gets put in the convo of rank but Sheed isnt?! why his tude? because skill for skill he was a hard cover.

Shaq and Hakeem imo isnt debateable...Duncan couldnt guard Shaq..point blank...Never stood up chest to chest...couldnt stand up to SHAQ...Hakkem out played Shaq in the finals.....Hakeem>Shaq<Duncan_<Sheed...._<= Greater than or equal to

You are making yourself look more childish and foolish with every post. It is quite obvious you are ignorant in regards to basketball, but it also seems apparent you are quite young and haven't actually seen some of these guys suit up. Just leave it be little one.

Patman
03-08-2012, 06:23 AM
You are making yourself look more childish and foolish with every post. It is quite obvious you are ignorant in regards to basketball, but it also seems apparent you are quite young and haven't actually seen some of these guys suit up. Just leave it be little one.

Why even acknowledge that Troll? That with Rasheed is a dead giveaway that he just want's to stir up **** and nothing more.