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View Full Version : Derrick Rose's Shooting in the Clutch



Melo4MVP2012
03-04-2012, 01:13 PM
1. In 2011-12, in the regular season and playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 5 points, sorted by descending Field Goals.

58.3 FG% (7 FGM - 12 FGA, 9-2 record)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...l=&order_by=fg


2. In 2011-12, in the regular season and playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 0:24 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -3 and -1 point, shot to tie or take lead, sorted by descending Field Goals.

50.0 FG% (2 FGM - 4 FGA, 4-1 record)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...l=&order_by=fg


3. In 2011-12, in the regular season and playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -3 and 3 points, sorted by descending Field Goals.

54.5 FG% (6 FGM - 11 FGA, 9-1 record)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...l=&order_by=fg


4. In 2011-12, in the regular season and playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 1:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -3 and -1 point, shot to tie or take lead, sorted by descending Field Goals.

50.0 FG% (3 FGM - 6 FGA, 5-1 record)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...l=&order_by=fg


5. In 2011-12, in the regular season and playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 1:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -3 and 3 points, sorted by descending Field Goals.

50.0 FG% (4 FGM - 8 FGA, 7-1 record)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...l=&order_by=fg




I just went through checking this season's numbers for now, but thought I'd share. The last Spurs game wasn't included in these numbers, so I went in and added the numbers in the situations it applied.
__________________


Re-post from Chicago Bulls forum

but how many of you would seriously take Rose over players like Carmelo, and Lebron in clutch situations?

Gram
03-04-2012, 01:15 PM
Derrick Tulip. Derrick Dandelion. Derrick Petunia. Derrick Lily. Derek Rose. Derrick Rose.

jp611
03-04-2012, 01:18 PM
Carmelo and Kobe have proven over time that they are clutch players... Rose has been amazing this year in the clutch and the best part is that he loves those situations, he takes it upon himself to win his team the ball game... He will be on their level eventually... He is also a clutch defender too, a lot of those times that he's made a clutch shot there has been time left on the clock and he has played superb defense on the PG to force a bad play on the other end... The best stat is the W-L though, Rose wills his team to victory in those circumstances more often than not

And why did you put Lebron and clutch in the same sentence?

Melo4MVP2012
03-04-2012, 01:19 PM
Carmelo and Kobe have proven over time that they are clutch players... Rose has been amazing this year in the clutch and the best part is that he loves those situations, he takes it upon himself to win his team the ball game

And why did you put Lebron and clutch in the same sentence?

because he was supposed to sign with the knicks in 2012 but didnt

CHANGO
03-04-2012, 01:21 PM
THIS SEASON, between superstars he is TOP 3 or 2 considering shot attempts and %.

The best superstars are.

In 2011-12, in the regular season, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 1:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 5 points, requiring Field Goal Attempts >= 5, sorted by descending Field Goals.

Bosh - 3-5FG, 60%, 1-1 3P
Wade - 4-7FG, 57%
Rose - 5-9FG, 56%

But the best of the best, of the best, of the best.

Is Aldridge... 6-7FG, 86% CLUTCH!!

celtNYpatsHeels
03-04-2012, 01:28 PM
it depends on the situation.... if the play is to take it to the rim then rose should be up there with lebron and wade

but if the play/situation calls for an outside jumper or 3pointer then i think rose is last on my list of guys like lebron wade durant kobe melo or even pierce or ray

jp611
03-04-2012, 01:30 PM
it depends on the situation.... if the play is to take it to the rim then rose should be up there with lebron and wade

but if the play/situation calls for an outside jumper or 3pointer then i think rose is last on my list of guys like lebron wade durant kobe melo or even pierce or ray

http://youtu.be/_V-zqQ8Zio8

And I know that's just one game, but one of his trademarks in those situations is his mid-range jumper... He just hit a mid-range jumper for the win against the Hornets the other night

jp611
03-04-2012, 01:35 PM
Clutch free throws are his big struggle... He will improve at it though

justinnum1
03-04-2012, 01:37 PM
DRose does seem to make a lot more of his jumpers in 4th quarter clutch situations. He's got some kind of super concentration Jedi mind powers...

just don't ask him to make clutch free throws, he doesn't like that.

very true

PatsSoxKnicks
03-04-2012, 01:38 PM
Too small of a sample size to legitimately use those results. At the very least, you have to see over 20 shot attempts to even consider using any type of data like that which is why you need to look at more years.

Also, whoever said Kobe has proven he's a clutch player time in and time again, well he really hasn't. His %'s in most clutch situations are around league average. He's not unclutch, he's just not particularly clutch either.

Greet
03-04-2012, 01:40 PM
Too small of a sample size to legitimately use those results. At the very least, you have to see over 20 shot attempts to even consider using any type of data like that which is why you need to look at more years.

Also, whoever said Kobe has proven he's a clutch player time in and time again, well he really hasn't. His %'s in most clutch situations are around league average. He's not unclutch, he's just not particularly clutch either.

Yeah. The thing about Kobe is that when you search for his game winners, you see some amazing shots. They just don't show you the ones he missed.

Personally, I would take Melo or Durant in any clutch situation.

thekmp211
03-04-2012, 01:44 PM
at PG i'll take cp3 in the clutch, nothing he can't do with the ball in his hands.

Melo4MVP2012
03-04-2012, 01:46 PM
at PG i'll take cp3 in the clutch, nothing he can't do with the ball in his hands.

wrong thread sweetie

jp611
03-04-2012, 01:48 PM
Too small of a sample size to legitimately use those results. At the very least, you have to see over 20 shot attempts to even consider using any type of data like that which is why you need to look at more years.

Also, whoever said Kobe has proven he's a clutch player time in and time again, well he really hasn't. His %'s in most clutch situations are around league average. He's not unclutch, he's just not particularly clutch either.

52 percent in that category in his last 4 years... CLUTCH

ChitownSports16
03-04-2012, 01:48 PM
http://youtu.be/_V-zqQ8Zio8

And I know that's just one game, but one of his trademarks in those situations is his mid-range jumper... He just hit a mid-range jumper for the win against the Hornets the other night

That was cold.....

BULLSFAN0810
03-04-2012, 01:48 PM
Kobe...rose...melo....durrant....love...yes love....allen....wade....in that order....for me atleast

KnicksR4Real
03-04-2012, 01:48 PM
Anyone else thinking why the hell Stoudemire is on this poll?

jp611
03-04-2012, 01:50 PM
Anyone else thinking why the hell Stoudemire is on this poll?

:laugh:

Melo4MVP2012
03-04-2012, 01:51 PM
Anyone else thinking why the hell Stoudemire is on this poll?

Because "The Knicks are Back!"

thekmp211
03-04-2012, 01:53 PM
wrong thread sweetie

? under 2 minutes i'll take paul over rose. ?

tredigs
03-04-2012, 01:54 PM
All your links are busted so I can't tell what you're using, but I found much different results. I have him as 5 for 10 this year when the game is +/- 5 with 2 minutes to go in the 4th or overtime. Here's the link descending from field goals (I set the field goal attempts at greater or equal to 10 attempts to wield out the anomalies, and Rose just made the cut).

Overall, given attempts & FG% both Durant AND Westbrook along with Monta Ellis and Rudy Gay have been the best. As much as I knock certain aspects of his game (much less so these days though), not surprising at all for me to see Monta there; he's quietly dominant over here in the Bay with the game on the line. Always has been.







Rk Player Season Tm G FG FGA FG% FGX 3P 3PA 3P% 3PX eFG% Ast'd %Ast'd
1 Kevin Durant 2011-12 OKC 12 17 37 .459 20 3 12 .250 9 .500 5 .294
2 Monta Ellis 2011-12 GSW 10 12 20 .600 8 3 8 .375 5 .675 2 .167
3 Carmelo Anthony 2011-12 NYK 10 12 32 .375 20 2 7 .286 5 .406 2 .167
4 R. Westbrook 2011-12 OKC 12 12 22 .545 10 3 5 .600 2 .614 4 .333
5 Rudy Gay 2011-12 MEM 11 11 20 .550 9 0 1 .000 1 .550 4 .364
6 Chris Paul 2011-12 LAC 12 10 29 .345 19 1 5 .200 4 .362 0 .000
7 B. Jennings 2011-12 MIL 15 10 34 .294 24 1 13 .077 12 .309 3 .300
8 Paul Millsap 2011-12 UTA 9 9 16 .563 7 2 5 .400 3 .625 4 .444
9 Jason Terry 2011-12 DAL 12 9 19 .474 10 3 10 .300 7 .553 3 .333
10 Jamal Crawford 2011-12 POR 11 8 22 .364 14 1 7 .143 6 .386 0 .000


Here's the rest of the list, D. Rose comes in 30th. So I'm not sure where this thread is coming from: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

tredigs
03-04-2012, 01:58 PM
Anyone else thinking why the hell Stoudemire is on this poll?

I just looked at the poll. Wow. And I'm glad it was a Knick fan who said it.

Stoudemire has been the #1 most disappointing player of the 2012 season for me given his expectations; a lot of people thought he'd be MVP, and I'm not sure he's a top 5 PF going forward.

DaLakerz Rulz
03-04-2012, 01:59 PM
Didnt we just have a similar thread about this with Monta Ellis? Again, I think that these so called "clutch" arguments are pointless. Why choose the criteria that was chosen. I can change them around to make random players look clutch. Not saying Rose isn't a good crunch time player. Just don't see the point in having a new thread everyday saying "x player is clutch" using the search function on basketball reference...

waveycrockett
03-04-2012, 02:01 PM
No argument from me. He and Durant are the most clutch players in the league by far.

Melo4MVP2012
03-04-2012, 02:02 PM
i wonder what rose's numbers are with shumpert guarding him:cool:

kingbrentg
03-04-2012, 02:04 PM
All your links are busted so I can't tell what you're using, but I found much different results. I have him as 5 for 10 this year when the game is +/- 5 with 2 minutes to go in the 4th or overtime. Here's the link descending from field goals (I set the field goal attempts at greater or equal to 10 attempts to wield out the anomalies, and Rose just made the cut).

If you click on the original posting in the Bulls forum that I posted (where this guy copied this from), you'll see the links.

And I also stated at the bottom of the post that the site wasn't updated for the game against the Spurs where he was 2/2 in the final 2:00.

kingbrentg
03-04-2012, 02:08 PM
Also, my original thread had nothing to do with stating him as the most clutch player in the league. It was just a quick look at how well he [and the team (defensively)] have performed in the clutch so far this season.

tredigs
03-04-2012, 02:14 PM
If you click on the original posting in the Bulls forum that I posted (where this guy copied this from), you'll see the links.

And I also stated at the bottom of the post that the site wasn't updated for the game against the Spurs where he was 2/2 in the final 2:00.

Gotchya. I'm still wondering how he came to the conclusion that Rose was #1 in these situations? Basically the thread title is flat wrong, is all I'm saying.

jp611
03-04-2012, 02:15 PM
The thread title is very misleading... Maybe a mod could change it

justinnum1
03-04-2012, 02:18 PM
All your links are busted so I can't tell what you're using, but I found much different results. I have him as 5 for 10 this year when the game is +/- 5 with 2 minutes to go in the 4th or overtime. Here's the link descending from field goals (I set the field goal attempts at greater or equal to 10 attempts to wield out the anomalies, and Rose just made the cut).

Overall, given attempts & FG% both Durant AND Westbrook along with Monta Ellis and Rudy Gay have been the best. As much as I knock certain aspects of his game (much less so these days though), not surprising at all for me to see Monta there; he's quietly dominant over here in the Bay with the game on the line. Always has been.







Rk Player Season Tm G FG FGA FG% FGX 3P 3PA 3P% 3PX eFG% Ast'd %Ast'd
1 Kevin Durant 2011-12 OKC 12 17 37 .459 20 3 12 .250 9 .500 5 .294
2 Monta Ellis 2011-12 GSW 10 12 20 .600 8 3 8 .375 5 .675 2 .167
3 Carmelo Anthony 2011-12 NYK 10 12 32 .375 20 2 7 .286 5 .406 2 .167
4 R. Westbrook 2011-12 OKC 12 12 22 .545 10 3 5 .600 2 .614 4 .333
5 Rudy Gay 2011-12 MEM 11 11 20 .550 9 0 1 .000 1 .550 4 .364
6 Chris Paul 2011-12 LAC 12 10 29 .345 19 1 5 .200 4 .362 0 .000
7 B. Jennings 2011-12 MIL 15 10 34 .294 24 1 13 .077 12 .309 3 .300
8 Paul Millsap 2011-12 UTA 9 9 16 .563 7 2 5 .400 3 .625 4 .444
9 Jason Terry 2011-12 DAL 12 9 19 .474 10 3 10 .300 7 .553 3 .333
10 Jamal Crawford 2011-12 POR 11 8 22 .364 14 1 7 .143 6 .386 0 .000


Here's the rest of the list, D. Rose comes in 30th. So I'm not sure where this thread is coming from: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

very interesting

tredigs
03-04-2012, 02:21 PM
The thread title is very misleading... Maybe a mod could change it

Yeah, gonna have to agree with this. 'Best performers in the clutch this season: KD & Monta on top' or something to that effect.

As of now it's just wrong. Even with this updated title, why are we focusing on "Derrick Rose's shooting in the clutch" in the NBA forum when he hasn't been top 5 in the league at it?

kingbrentg
03-04-2012, 02:23 PM
Gotchya. I'm still wondering how he came to the conclusion that Rose was #1 in these situations? Basically the thread title is flat wrong, is all I'm saying.

I don't know either. Perhaps it was just to draw attention or create controversy.



As of now it's just wrong. Even with this updated title, why are we focusing on "Derrick Rose's shooting in the clutch" in the NBA forum when he hasn't been top 5 in the league at it?

I just made it what the thread was actually about. :shrug:

LGhost
03-04-2012, 02:25 PM
very true


very interesting

Very post worthy

jp611
03-04-2012, 02:25 PM
very interesting

:laugh:

BULLSFAN0810
03-04-2012, 02:26 PM
so is this list saying Durrant is clutch and everyone else is just as good as he? or is it saying Durrant is clutch and everyone else is chuckers? i see a list of volume shooters.

justinnum1
03-04-2012, 02:26 PM
Who would have thought jennings is ranked in the top 10 of that list

Kashmir13579
03-04-2012, 02:26 PM
Mods are asleep at the wheel. The OP is a troll.

kingbrentg
03-04-2012, 02:27 PM
Who would have thought jennings is ranked in the top 10 of that list

Yeah, but look at the FG%


The more you shoot, the more you're eventually going to make.

tredigs
03-04-2012, 02:28 PM
very interesting

And I just checked to see where Lebron was on the list and he JUST made it at #50. 1/10 overall in these situations.

I defend Lebron a lot but to see him that terrible and Durant that good in those situations is the first tangible thing I can point to at this point that maybe Kevin Durant DOES have a legitimate case for MVP over Lebron. For me Lebron's unreal D still separates the two, but that's an interesting line. Also, those stats are a slap in the face to a guy like Skip Bayless who says KD should be taking all the late shots rather than Westbrook; Russ has been equally dominant.



:laugh:

Did you think he was being sarcastic? I didn't.

jp611
03-04-2012, 02:35 PM
If there is anything he can downplay Derrick Rose with, he will

ChiSox219
03-04-2012, 02:35 PM
And I just checked to see where Lebron was on the list and he JUST made it at #50. 1/10 overall in these situations.

I defend Lebron a lot but to see him that terrible and Durant that good in those situations is the first tangible thing I can point to at this point that maybe Kevin Durant DOES have a legitimate case for MVP over Lebron. For me Lebron's unreal D still separates the two, but that's an interesting line. Also, those stats are a slap in the face to a guy like Skip Bayless who says KD should be taking all the late shots rather than Westbrook; Russ has been equally dominant.


Did you think he was being sarcastic? I didn't.

Where's the "like" button? :)

kingbrentg
03-04-2012, 02:36 PM
Now, if you sort that link by FG% and not just FGM, it looks pretty different.


Rk Player Season Tm G FG FGA FG% ▾ FGX 3P 3PA 3P% 3PX eFG% Ast'd %Ast'd
1 Monta Ellis 2011-12 GSW 10 12 20 .600 8 3 8 .375 5 .675 2 .167
2 David West 2011-12 IND 7 6 10 .600 4 0 0 0 .600 3 .500
3 Paul Millsap 2011-12 UTA 9 9 16 .563 7 2 5 .400 3 .625 4 .444
4 Rudy Gay 2011-12 MEM 11 11 20 .550 9 0 1 .000 1 .550 4 .364
5 R Westbrook 2011-12 OKC 12 12 22 .545 10 3 5 .600 2 .614 4 .333
6 Gary Neal 2011-12 SAS 7 6 11 .545 5 3 5 .600 2 .682 2 .333
7 Ricky Rubio 2011-12 MIN 8 6 11 .545 5 3 4 .750 1 .682 1 .167
8 Devin Harris 2011-12 UTA 7 5 10 .500 5 1 6 .167 5 .550 2 .400
9 Derrick Rose 2011-12 CHI 5 5 10 .500 5 0 0 0 .500 1 .200
10 Tim Duncan 2011-12 SAS 6 5 10 .500 5 0 0 0 .500 3 .600

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


Rose's 58.3 FG% adjusted after the Spurs game would put him #3 after Ellis and West.

tredigs
03-04-2012, 02:41 PM
Now, if you sort that link by FG% and not just FGM, it looks pretty different.


Rk Player Season Tm G FG FGA FG% ▾ FGX 3P 3PA 3P% 3PX eFG% Ast'd %Ast'd
1 Monta Ellis 2011-12 GSW 10 12 20 .600 8 3 8 .375 5 .675 2 .167
2 David West 2011-12 IND 7 6 10 .600 4 0 0 0 .600 3 .500
3 Paul Millsap 2011-12 UTA 9 9 16 .563 7 2 5 .400 3 .625 4 .444
4 Rudy Gay 2011-12 MEM 11 11 20 .550 9 0 1 .000 1 .550 4 .364
5 R Westbrook 2011-12 OKC 12 12 22 .545 10 3 5 .600 2 .614 4 .333
6 Gary Neal 2011-12 SAS 7 6 11 .545 5 3 5 .600 2 .682 2 .333
7 Ricky Rubio 2011-12 MIN 8 6 11 .545 5 3 4 .750 1 .682 1 .167
8 Devin Harris 2011-12 UTA 7 5 10 .500 5 1 6 .167 5 .550 2 .400
9 Derrick Rose 2011-12 CHI 5 5 10 .500 5 0 0 0 .500 1 .200
10 Tim Duncan 2011-12 SAS 6 5 10 .500 5 0 0 0 .500 3 .600

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


Rose's 58.3 FG% adjusted after the Spurs game would put him #3 after Ellis and West.


Still a smaller sample size than Westbrook and Monta (about half as many shots made), and about a third as many as KD. That matters. Also, you're assuming everyone else in the league stayed the same or got worse. Also matters.

I think that only goes until the end of February. There'll be a number of games updated tomorrow.

justinnum1
03-04-2012, 02:41 PM
Now, if you sort that link by FG% and not just FGM, it looks pretty different.


Rk Player Season Tm G FG FGA FG% ▾ FGX 3P 3PA 3P% 3PX eFG% Ast'd %Ast'd
1 Monta Ellis 2011-12 GSW 10 12 20 .600 8 3 8 .375 5 .675 2 .167
2 David West 2011-12 IND 7 6 10 .600 4 0 0 0 .600 3 .500
3 Paul Millsap 2011-12 UTA 9 9 16 .563 7 2 5 .400 3 .625 4 .444
4 Rudy Gay 2011-12 MEM 11 11 20 .550 9 0 1 .000 1 .550 4 .364
5 R Westbrook 2011-12 OKC 12 12 22 .545 10 3 5 .600 2 .614 4 .333
6 Gary Neal 2011-12 SAS 7 6 11 .545 5 3 5 .600 2 .682 2 .333
7 Ricky Rubio 2011-12 MIN 8 6 11 .545 5 3 4 .750 1 .682 1 .167
8 Devin Harris 2011-12 UTA 7 5 10 .500 5 1 6 .167 5 .550 2 .400
9 Derrick Rose 2011-12 CHI 5 5 10 .500 5 0 0 0 .500 1 .200
10 Tim Duncan 2011-12 SAS 6 5 10 .500 5 0 0 0 .500 3 .600

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


Rose's 58.3 FG% adjusted after the Spurs game would put him #3 after Ellis and West.
That looks better, i was wondering why jennings was top 10 lol

BULLSFAN0810
03-04-2012, 02:44 PM
Now, if you sort that link by FG% and not just FGM, it looks pretty different.


Rk Player Season Tm G FG FGA FG% ▾ FGX 3P 3PA 3P% 3PX eFG% Ast'd %Ast'd
1 Monta Ellis 2011-12 GSW 10 12 20 .600 8 3 8 .375 5 .675 2 .167
2 David West 2011-12 IND 7 6 10 .600 4 0 0 0 .600 3 .500
3 Paul Millsap 2011-12 UTA 9 9 16 .563 7 2 5 .400 3 .625 4 .444
4 Rudy Gay 2011-12 MEM 11 11 20 .550 9 0 1 .000 1 .550 4 .364
5 R Westbrook 2011-12 OKC 12 12 22 .545 10 3 5 .600 2 .614 4 .333
6 Gary Neal 2011-12 SAS 7 6 11 .545 5 3 5 .600 2 .682 2 .333
7 Ricky Rubio 2011-12 MIN 8 6 11 .545 5 3 4 .750 1 .682 1 .167
8 Devin Harris 2011-12 UTA 7 5 10 .500 5 1 6 .167 5 .550 2 .400
9 Derrick Rose 2011-12 CHI 5 5 10 .500 5 0 0 0 .500 1 .200
10 Tim Duncan 2011-12 SAS 6 5 10 .500 5 0 0 0 .500 3 .600

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


Rose's 58.3 FG% adjusted after the Spurs game would put him #3 after Ellis and West.

Like in everything in life..the best when its on the line arent the "BEST." its usually the players who surround them...its just the fact the the real "CLUTCH" ppl cant get their own shot usuallyand they depend on someone getting them their shot.

kingbrentg
03-04-2012, 02:45 PM
Still a smaller sample size than Westbrook and Monta (about half as many shots made), and about a third as many as KD. That matters. Also, you're assuming everyone else in the league stayed the same or got worse. Also matters.

Of course, but I'll take the guys that are hitting those shots at a higher clip than the likes of Jennings being in there simply because of his high volume of shots.

And adjusting everyone else over the last 3 days, I'd still say Rose would be right there at the top in that category still. Though I get your point, I just don't have the patience to go through and check everyone else's numbers that weren't updated.

And there will obviously be variables no matter how we look at this. Such as who is creating their own shot, how much they're guarded, etc.

justinnum1
03-04-2012, 02:48 PM
If there is anything he can downplay Derrick Rose with, he will

:shrug: hes shooting 50% from clutch, thats impressive

thekmp211
03-04-2012, 03:09 PM
Of course, but I'll take the guys that are hitting those shots at a higher clip than the likes of Jennings being in there simply because of his high volume of shots.

And adjusting everyone else over the last 3 days, I'd still say Rose would be right there at the top in that category still. Though I get your point, I just don't have the patience to go through and check everyone else's numbers that weren't updated.

And there will obviously be variables no matter how we look at this. Such as who is creating their own shot, how much they're guarded, etc.

appreciate your passion for sports debate, but as someone else has said as a mod posting IN this thread i think it's safe to say you need to do something about OP who is trolling all over the forum right now.

jp611
03-04-2012, 03:36 PM
How is he trolling, maybe I missed something

naps
03-04-2012, 03:49 PM
I want Dwyane Wade over anyone in post Michael Jordan era.

madvillian9
03-04-2012, 03:52 PM
How is he trolling, maybe I missed something

Agreed. Not seeing it.

thekmp211
03-04-2012, 07:46 PM
How is he trolling, maybe I missed something


Agreed. Not seeing it.

the banhammer saw things my way it seems. he was def a troll, bulls fan hating on knicks fans or something. you never know with these idiots.

jp611
03-04-2012, 07:50 PM
Was it in another thread or something? I honestly didn't see it in here

ThePooH_1_
03-04-2012, 07:52 PM
lol, who voted for Lebron James? You guys really like to lose, don't you? :D I voted for Kobe, dude is cold as ice..

Furymaker
03-04-2012, 07:53 PM
I want Dwyane Wade over anyone in post Michael Jordan era.

even over B-Roy at his best ? I know I wouldn't .
Rose is impressive when it matters , D or O , he will get it for you , you almost can feel his will for winning in these kind of situations .

thekmp211
03-04-2012, 07:54 PM
but how many of you would seriously take Rose over players like Carmelo, and Lebron in clutch situations?



Was it in another thread or something? I honestly didn't see it in here

yeah he made like 7 of varying stupidity, this one was the most subtle. but if you presume that he is a bulls fan, then you can see how his name and then this thread are troll-y.

jp611
03-04-2012, 07:57 PM
but how many of you would seriously take Rose over players like Carmelo, and Lebron in clutch situations?



Was it in another thread or something? I honestly didn't see it in here

yeah he made like 7 of varying stupidity, this one was the most subtle. but if you presume that he is a bulls fan, then you can see how his name and then this thread are troll-y.

Probably a dupe

jp611
03-04-2012, 10:48 PM
Well, he was 1/1 in those situations tonight so make that 8/13 on the season :clap:

smiddy012
03-04-2012, 11:01 PM
Rose scored 2 quarter-ending buzzer-beaters tonight, one was a 3. And then sealed the win in the 4th in the teens with a wrist shot behind the back-board... against Philly...

If he can carry this into the post-season that will be a very scary thing.

quade36
03-04-2012, 11:06 PM
Why are two Knicks on this list? That seems silly. Every other player is on a team with a winning record. How clutch can you be if you've lost more games than you won?

quade36
03-04-2012, 11:06 PM
.

DLeeicious
03-04-2012, 11:08 PM
No sample size for a season is going to be enough to show anything concrete. I will say this though, I sure as hell am happy Rose is on my team when the game is close.

Bruno
03-04-2012, 11:18 PM
Rose is bad man w/ the game on the line. bulls fans have a lot to be proud of.

it's nice to see some cold-blood return to united center.

Gritz
03-04-2012, 11:39 PM
Where is Pierce?

LGhost
03-04-2012, 11:41 PM
Probably getting some rest, he had a game today

justinnum1
03-04-2012, 11:44 PM
Where is Pierce?

Pierce is one of a few i would want taking the shot at the last second

ghettosean
03-04-2012, 11:59 PM
I voted Kobe and really thought hard about voting for Durant but in all honesty (people will hammer me for saying this) but if we are just talking who I want the ball in the hands after thinking about it I'll say Steve Nash (Kill me now people with comments... LOL). If I had to put the ball in the hands of a player who I know 100% will make the right decision (not just take the shot) I'll say Steve Nash.

Cool007
03-05-2012, 12:35 AM
Rose is bad man w/ the game on the line. bulls fans have a lot to be proud of.

it's nice to see some cold-blood return to united center.


+1.

Rose really felt terrible after the series vs Heat last year and he took that upon himself to improve.

Well, this year he has been nothing short of big time impressive. Just this past week his clutch gene was the huge reason Bulls put the teams away (Hornets/Spurs and now Sixers).

It all started with the very first game vs Lakers and he hasn't disappointed us so far.

Still though, if he keeps this up in the playoffs, that's when he will be remembered the most. I can't wait.

chitown815
03-05-2012, 12:50 AM
Tomorrow Rose has a vengeance over the way the pacers handled themselves, he usually doesn't call ppl out so i can't wait

Bigbadmoffo
03-05-2012, 12:55 AM
Question, why would you put amare on the list? How about someone like CP3?

justinnum1
03-05-2012, 12:56 AM
Question, why would you put amare on the list? How about someone like CP3?

its a flawed list...stat but not wade:rolleyes::confused:

Bruno
03-05-2012, 01:13 AM
+1.

Rose really felt terrible after the series vs Heat last year and he took that upon himself to improve.

Well, this year he has been nothing short of big time impressive. Just this past week his clutch gene was the huge reason Bulls put the teams away (Hornets/Spurs and now Sixers).

It all started with the very first game vs Lakers and he hasn't disappointed us so far.

Still though, if he keeps this up in the playoffs, that's when he will be remembered the most. I can't wait.

that's where the greats make their mark. any all-star can beat up on .500 teams for 41 games in a regular season. the GOATs make their marks against the stacked competition of the deep playoffs.

x2.

JRisdabest
03-05-2012, 01:29 AM
cp3

chitown815
03-05-2012, 01:55 AM
its a flawed list...stat but not wade:rolleyes::confused:

Yeah, i thought the same thing

OaklandsFinest
03-05-2012, 02:24 AM
CP3 best clutch player in the league!! After him I'll take Rose or Lebron. Chris Paul's teams routinely lead the league in 4th quarter offensive efficiency. Lakers are near the bottom with Kobe being the lead reason, he has horrible 4th quarter possessions.

JJ_JKidd
03-05-2012, 03:27 AM
Ugh, clutch eh? ECF Chi-Mia? :facepalm:

JJ_JKidd
03-05-2012, 03:29 AM
Under 2 minutes left, who do you want the ball in the hands of?

Melo
Stoudemire
Rose
Lebron
Durant
Kobe

:confused::facepalm::confused::facepalm:

LGhost
03-05-2012, 04:10 AM
Ugh, clutch eh? ECF Chi-Mia? :facepalm:

You don't have to hide your face

sargon21
03-05-2012, 04:16 AM
Ugh, clutch eh? ECF Chi-Mia? :facepalm:

He's 22. Relax.

smiddy012
03-05-2012, 04:29 AM
He's 22. Relax.

He's 23, he'll turn 24 October 4th. C'mon you should know this by heart!

JJ_JKidd
03-05-2012, 04:30 AM
As much as I hate Lebron and his circus show, until Rose leads Chi-Town to the Finals (which I hope he will), maybe the clutch thing should wait for now.

smiddy012
03-05-2012, 04:31 AM
As much as I hate Lebron and his circus show, until Rose leads Chi-Town to the Finals (which I hope he will), maybe the clutch thing should wait for now.

Which is why Kobe's the clutchest player in the NBA, even though he's stinking it up in the fourth this season statistically.

LGhost
03-05-2012, 04:41 AM
As much as I hate Lebron and his circus show, until Rose leads Chi-Town to the Finals (which I hope he will), maybe the clutch thing should wait for now.

You must have not read this whole thread. This thread was created by a dupe who was trolling, trying to bait for responses similar to yours. Luckily you were the only one to fall for it. The original post is in the Bulls forum and he was only pointing out how Derrick is doing this year in the clutch. There is nothing to argue about here as no one is saying Rose is the most clutch player. He has improved this year though if you cared...

Evolution23
03-05-2012, 04:59 AM
Gimme Melo, Kobe, Pierce, Dirk, Durant. Any of those guys.

JJ_JKidd
03-05-2012, 05:16 AM
You must have not read this whole thread. This thread was created by a dupe who was trolling, trying to bait for responses similar to yours. Luckily you were the only one to fall for it. The original post is in the Bulls forum and he was only pointing out how Derrick is doing this year in the clutch. There is nothing to argue about here as no one is saying Rose is the most clutch player. He has improved this year though if you cared...

Thread itself is misleading :confused: says "Derrick Rose Shooting in the Clutch" and there was a poll on "Under 2 minutes left, who do you want the ball in the hands of?."

Im not arguing who is the MOST CLUTCH. For me,,,,,,,,,,,,,, clutch should be defined WHEN IT MATTERS MOST (PLAYOFFS) and not AT THIS POINT OF THE SEASON. Thats my point.

But yeah, I care if he has improved a lot coz I want the Bulls to regain their Championship glory years. He just needs to pace himself a bit, though, so as to save some energy for the playoffs.

Champology
03-05-2012, 07:27 AM
Because "The Knicks are Back!"

NY is under .500....18-19....thats Chicago Cub like

jp611
03-07-2012, 11:30 PM
And he does it again, kid is a cold blooded killer

dnewguy
03-07-2012, 11:31 PM
Is Rose back as favorite for MVP? That game winner is astounding, he's been doing it all season.

bholly
03-07-2012, 11:33 PM
aren't this and your kobe thread both just the sort of things that the game threads are designed for?

justinnum1
03-07-2012, 11:33 PM
aren't this and your kobe thread both just the sort of things that the game threads are designed for?

+1

Marlin234
03-07-2012, 11:34 PM
And he does it again, kid is a regular season cold blooded killer

fixed

Cubby
03-07-2012, 11:37 PM
Not yet, but he'd definitely in consideration. He has to be.

effen5
03-07-2012, 11:38 PM
Mod should take ops ability to create new threads away

jp611
03-07-2012, 11:39 PM
And he does it again, kid is a regular season cold blooded killer

fixed

That's Lebron, nice attempt at baiting, if you're gonna do that, at least don't be a Lebron fan lol, you're asking to get hammered on for that

CHANGO
03-07-2012, 11:43 PM
That's Lebron, nice attempt at baiting, if you're gonna do that, at least don't be a Lebron fan lol, you're asking to get hammered on for that

Not really. Lebron was more clutch in the playoffs last season. :)

But he was trolling. Agree!

Marlin234
03-07-2012, 11:44 PM
That's Lebron, nice attempt at baiting, if you're gonna do that, at least don't be a Lebron fan lol, you're asking to get hammered on for that

Lebrons has accomplished more than rose. Let me save you from your next reply I already know what it is.

"Lebron is older so stfu"... Lmao the fact is Lebron has done more end of story.

I'll admit I am trolling because I despise the bulls arrogant fan base on this website. But I'm not saying nothing that is not true or disrespectful.

Bullsfan22
03-07-2012, 11:45 PM
I guess the sample size is starting to grow.

jp611
03-07-2012, 11:46 PM
That's Lebron, nice attempt at baiting, if you're gonna do that, at least don't be a Lebron fan lol, you're asking to get hammered on for that

Lebrons has accomplished more than rose. Let me save you from your next reply I already know what it is.

"Lebron is older so stfu"... Lmao the fact is Lebron had done more end of story.

Lebron hasn't ever been this clutch in his career, keep trolling lol

NoahH
03-07-2012, 11:48 PM
Rose just clutched up there

NoahH
03-07-2012, 11:48 PM
Lebron hasn't ever been this clutch in his career, keep trolling lol

Hey! He sank the magic in game 5!

jp611
03-07-2012, 11:49 PM
9/14 when the game is within 5 points with 2 minutes left or less in a game... CLUTCH

Marlin234
03-07-2012, 11:50 PM
9/14 when the game is within 5 points with 2 minutes left or less in a game... CLUTCH

How many in the playoffs?

quade36
03-07-2012, 11:52 PM
Silly bickering.

bears88
03-07-2012, 11:52 PM
jpro just ignore this Troll that is called " Marlin234" if you don't respond he will go away. Besides just place him on you ignore list.

ChitownSports16
03-07-2012, 11:54 PM
How many in the playoffs?

Lol

Sinestro
03-07-2012, 11:54 PM
How many in the playoffs?

How about Lebron's in the Finals?

jp611
03-07-2012, 11:55 PM
This guy

MJ-BULLS
03-07-2012, 11:56 PM
DRose

Marlin234
03-07-2012, 11:57 PM
How about Lebron's in the Finals?

That's the only argument ppl have against Lebron. At least he made it twice. Sucks he didn't win any.. But he's made MANY clutch shots in the playoffs to atleast make it there.

Idk about you but I prefer my star being clutch in the playoffs than regular season.

jp611
03-07-2012, 11:58 PM
D-Rose>14 year old heat troll

jp611
03-07-2012, 11:59 PM
How about Lebron's in the Finals?

That's the only argument ppl have against Lebron. At least he made it twice. Sucks he didn't win any.. But he's made MANY clutch shots in the playoffs to atleast make it there.

Idk about you but I prefer my star being clutch in the playoffs than regular season.

He's 23 years old, he was clutch against Indiana and Atlanta, was out of steam by the time Miami rolled around and he failed, he's back though and ready

CHANGO
03-08-2012, 12:00 AM
Lebron hasn't ever been this clutch in his career, keep trolling lol


9/14 when the game is within 5 points with 2 minutes left or less in a game... CLUTCH

Lebron James
29-48, 60% in 2005-2006
25-58, 43% in 2006-2007
35-79, 44% in 2007-2008
17-34, 50% in 2008-2009
32-72, 44% in 2009-2010
20-43, 47% in 2010-2011

Without the playoffs stats...

Baller1
03-08-2012, 12:01 AM
Honest answer... Rose, KD, and Dirk are the three I would want in the final two minutes.

CHANGO
03-08-2012, 12:01 AM
Anyways, nice shot Rose. He's clutch this year.

I'm not a hater and this isn't about Lebron.

Byeee! I'm dead right now! :sleep: :faint:

Marlin234
03-08-2012, 12:03 AM
He's 23 years old, he was clutch against Indiana and Atlanta, was out of steam by the time Miami rolled around and he failed, he's back though and ready

Like I said.. Howd I know you were going to pull the "he's 23 years" old card. I'm not ignorant, rose will be great and a half of famer. But right night Lebron is better and proved himself more than rose in the playoffs (I keep mentioning playoffs because reg. season don't mean jack ****)

jp611
03-08-2012, 12:04 AM
No one said rose is better than Lebron, you came in and discredited him being a troll

kozelkid
03-08-2012, 12:05 AM
Like I said.. Howd I know you were going to pull the "he's 23 years" old card. I'm not ignorant, rose will be great and a half of famer. But right night Lebron is better and proved himself more than rose in the playoffs (I keep mentioning playoffs because reg. season don't mean jack ****)

That's awesome.

So why did you bring up Lebron again while people were talking about Rose's accomplishments tonight? I don't see why you enjoy being a spiteful troll.

LGhost
03-08-2012, 12:06 AM
That's the only argument ppl have against Lebron. At least he made it twice. Sucks he didn't win any.. But he's made MANY clutch shots in the playoffs to atleast make it there.

Idk about you but I prefer my star being clutch in the playoffs than regular season.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/108/728/Oprah_umad.gif


He's 23 years old, he was clutch against Indiana and Atlanta, was out of steam by the time Miami rolled around and he failed, he's back though and ready

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/031/854/1260710343244.jpg

Marlin234
03-08-2012, 12:06 AM
No one said rose is better than Lebron, you came in and discredited him being a troll

Lol, I was being a smart *** forgive me. It Was sick shot from rose NGL. Truce :)

jp611
03-08-2012, 12:08 AM
It was an attempt at baiting that was sniffed out and destroyed, me 1, you 0

Marlin234
03-08-2012, 12:10 AM
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/108/728/Oprah_umad.gif



http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/031/854/1260710343244.jpg

Lol that's cute.. Did you steal that from someone after they sent it to you, after the ECF last year?

Cubby
03-08-2012, 12:10 AM
He's clutch, I don't see how anyone can dispute that.

Marlin234
03-08-2012, 12:11 AM
It was an attempt at baiting that was sniffed out and destroyed, me 1, you 0

Lol if that's what helps you sleep at night then sure you won :)

LGhost
03-08-2012, 12:17 AM
Lol that's cute.. Did you steal that from someone after they sent it to you, after the ECF last year?

You know your mad, just admit it

Marlin234
03-08-2012, 12:19 AM
You know your mad, just admit it

Extremely .. Lol what I be mad at about? Are you serious..

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:21 AM
Rose under a minute down by at least 2 and no more than 5, 35%
Rose under 24 seconds down by 2 or 3 16.6%
Rose under 24 seconds down by 2 or 3 from at least 15 feet away 9%

kozelkid
03-08-2012, 12:24 AM
Rose under a minute down by at least 2 and no more than 5, 35%
Rose under 24 seconds down by 2 or 3 16.6%
Rose under 24 seconds down by 2 or 3 from at least 15 feet away 9%

You've already made up stats before, so you better post a damn link if you are going to post stats.

What's the scenario here because it certainly isn't for this season where he has been very efficient in the clutch.

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:25 AM
You've already made up stats before, so you better post a damn link if you are going to post stats.

What's the scenario here because it certainly isn't for this season where he has been very efficient in the clutch.

When did I ever "make up stats"? check it yourself those are career numbers

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:25 AM
Yeah, you're right. Derrick Rose sucks. All those clutch game winning plays everybody saw him make the past 2 years were just hallucinated.

Simply posting numbers.. I didn't say he sucked...

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:26 AM
D.Rose makes a game winning step back fade away jumper....QUICK, THINK OF HOW WE CAN MAKE HIM LOOK BAD!

I'm a DRose fan... tonight's shot isn't in the stats.

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:30 AM
Yeah right, so the Bulls space the floor and give the ball to Derrick for an ISO every time in close game situations because he's so bad in the clutch.

If he's so bad in closing situations why does Thibs let him go ISO every time we need a game winning/saving basket?

I don't know, I'm just giving you the numbers.. stop *****ing at me because he isn't shooting over 35%... those numbers don't just include ISO.. I'll recalculate later removing all desperation shots from 30+ feet IF there are any...

LGhost
03-08-2012, 12:30 AM
Extremely .. Lol what I be mad at about? Are you serious..

Extremely serious... I don't know what you be mad about, figure it out yourself.

Maybe if you didn't spend so much time trolling and baiting, it would help you figure it out :shrug:

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:33 AM
What about including clutch assists and clutch foul getting/shooting.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find free throw %'s and or assists late in games. I've just been looking at shooting the ball. I'll investigate more later

kozelkid
03-08-2012, 12:35 AM
When did I ever "make up stats"? check it yourself those are career numbers

Show the link then.

And when have you made up numbers? I'm glad you asked.

Only recently you mentioned...


22 games with under 10 or less points
15 games with under 10 rebounds
15 games shooting under 50%
12 games shooting under 70% from the free throw line
15 games without a block
20 games without a steal
Only 5 games without a turnover

That's pretty inconsistent...

With my good buddy Shammy debunking your so-called "stats"...


I love seeing posts like this one. Especially when they're incorrect.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01/gamelog/2012/

* Noah's had only 19 games with < 10 points. Not 22. And he's had 20 games games where he scores >10 points.

* Noah's had only 11 games with < 10 rebounds. Not 15. And he's had 18 games with 10-14 rebounds and 6 games with 15-19 rebounds.

* What's with the free throw line bit? :laugh2: he's shooting a career high 74.8% from the free throw line as a center, that gets there 3.3 times a game. Nice try skewing the numbers though champ.

* Blocks are overrated. If so, he's had 19 games with 1-2 and 5 games with 3-4. Soooo that's consistent, again.

* Steals? Really? As a center? Again you're wrong... he's had only 15 games without a steal. Not 20. He's also had 19 games with 1 or 2 steals and two games with more than 2.


So not only were you wrong about everything, you were really ****ing wrong.

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:37 AM
Show the link then.

And when have you made up numbers? I'm glad you asked.

Only recently you mentioned...



With my good buddy Shammy debunking your so-called "stats"...

He calculated under 10 I clearly said 10 AND UNDER
Also there are obviously 15 GAMES with UNDER 10 rebounds.. nothing I said was a lie.. look at it yourself..

Cool007
03-08-2012, 12:39 AM
Just this season alone, D-Rose has been EXTREMELY clutch. The only time he disappointed this year was when he missed those free throws vs Heat (but it was definitely mental) and I am pretty positive that if that happened again, he would calmly knock it down.

It all started from the very first game vs Lakers and he hasn't disappointed us (other than 1 game).

I am so glad he is on my team. I would go to war against anyone knowing he is on my team. He gives me that comfort zone even though the game is close, I know he will bail us out. Even if it's not just game winning shot, he has made huge passes and even huge defensively stopping the other team's PG.

ackar
03-08-2012, 12:40 AM
Rose for the win....yes its good. Chest bumps and fist pounds for all!

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:41 AM
Also the point of that was SHOWING that Noah doesn't dominate on a gamely basis..

kozelkid
03-08-2012, 12:41 AM
He calculated under 10 I clearly said 10 AND UNDER

Do you know what the word "under" means? It means it doesn't include the value that it's under. In which case, you need to use better language to explain yourself.

And please. Since when does someone use blocks, steals and "inconsistent" ft% to prove a player being inconsistent. Seems like you were looking for agenda. Not to mention, that still doesn't explain you being 5 games off with games without a steal.

Again, show the link of Rose's career clutch numbers. I've yet to see it.

JBears79
03-08-2012, 12:41 AM
No one this year had been more clutch then D-Rose. Sure there are other guys like Kobe with a bigger sample size but just look at what he has done in the 4th this year. Guy is Cold Blooded and not afraid to take the last shot.

JBears79
03-08-2012, 12:42 AM
How does Lebron have any votes in this? He is the definition of Anti-Clutch. Hes a great player but I think he fears failure.

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:43 AM
Do you know what the word "under" means? It means it doesn't include the value that it's under. In which case, you need to use better language to explain yourself.

And please. Since when does someone use blocks, steals and "inconsistent" ft% to prove a player being inconsistent. Seems like you were looking for agenda. Not to mention, that still doesn't explain you being 5 games off with games without a steal.

Again, show the link of Rose's career clutch numbers. I've yet to see it.

THAT'S WHY I SAID 10 AND ****ING UNDER.. Learn to ****ing read god damnit.. and the other guy needs to learn to count..

chicago lulz
03-08-2012, 12:44 AM
Do you know what the word "under" means? It means it doesn't include the value that it's under. In which case, you need to use better language to explain yourself.

And please. Since when does someone use blocks, steals and "inconsistent" ft% to prove a player being inconsistent. Seems like you were looking for agenda. Not to mention, that still doesn't explain you being 5 games off with games without a steal.

Again, show the link of Rose's career clutch numbers. I've yet to see it.

I got the real stats

Rose under a minute down by at least 2 and no more than 5, 100%
Rose under 24 seconds down by 2 or 3 100%
Rose under 24 seconds down by 2 or 3 from at least 15 feet away 100%
Don't worry about a link. This is what the website said.

BULLSFAN0810
03-08-2012, 12:45 AM
Im at the point where it is useless to argue with ppl on Rose...The guy comes in wins a MVP,he is a chucker...He is the only scoring option on a team,he is Over rated offensively....Cant play D,on the best D playing team....isnt clutch,2 or 3 game winners this month....isnt the best PG,dominates all other PGs...Its useless,pointless;because you cant really call ppl haters;they may really believe who ever is better ,even if its clear its not true. NOT THE BEST PLAYER...33-8 with no real standalone 2 option....PPL hurt all the time,ship stays afloat..DROSE IS THE BEST

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:47 AM
I got the real stats

Don't worry about a link. This is what the website said.

Go onto shot finder. and calculate them yourselves as I'm the only person to have so far. also before you comeback and blast the **** out of me.. read the circumstances I wrote.. because that wouldn't be the first time you guys have done it obviously...

LAKobeBryant
03-08-2012, 12:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri25xvLgp7w&feature=g-u-u&context=G2f0d729FUAAAAAAABAA

kozelkid
03-08-2012, 12:48 AM
THAT'S WHY I SAID 10 AND ****ING UNDER.. Learn to ****ing read god damnit.. and the other guy needs to learn to count..

You said under 10 or less. Learn how to ****ing type and read what you typed your ****ing self. Seriously, I have it quoted RIGHT in front of you.


22 games with under 10 or less points

**** man...

In case you are wondering, under and less mean the same ****ing thing.


I got the real stats

Don't worry about a link. This is what the website said.

No kidding. I'd say it's as credible as the stuff he pulled out of his ***.

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:48 AM
LOL at some people in this thread. If you want to talk about how Noah sucks, you might not want to do it the day he goes for 20/10.

If you want to talk about how D.Rose sucks at making game winning shots, you might not want to do it on the day he makes one.

I was talking about consistency... and I'M A ****ING ROSE FAN.. but even if I wasn't... It wouldn't change the numbers

23dragonzord
03-08-2012, 12:48 AM
THAT'S WHY I SAID 10 AND ****ING UNDER.. Learn to ****ing read god damnit.. and the other guy needs to learn to count..

just stop, youre making a scene. and youre embarrassing yourself :p

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:49 AM
You said under 10 or less. Learn how to ****ing type and read what you typed your ****ing self. Seriously, I have it quoted RIGHT in front of you.

**** man...



No kidding. I'd say it's as credible as the stuff he pulled out of his ***.

oops you're right I ****ed up on the wording.. my bad.. but the rebounding numbers were correct.. go count them

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:51 AM
5 seconds and under DROSE 18.8%
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/
Go **** yourselves PSDers

kozelkid
03-08-2012, 12:56 AM
5 seconds and under DROSE 18.8%
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/
Go **** yourselves PSDers

Who cares. As the article itself mentioned, we're talking last second shots here. Many that could have been heaves as well. The parameters are WAY too small imo to judge a player as "clutch" or not. I'm MUCH more interested in how a player is shooting in last 2 or even 5 minutes. Where plays involve more than some crazy low percentage fadeaway or inbounds play in the wading seconds or the game.

Sactown
03-08-2012, 12:56 AM
That says Kevin Durant is a worse clutch shooter than Derrick Rose.

hmm, learn something new on PSD every day. Derrick Rose and Durant suck in the clutch.

Are you saying the numbers lie... :eyebrow:

Sactown
03-08-2012, 01:01 AM
Who cares. As the article itself mentioned, we're talking last second shots here. Many that could have been heaves as well. The parameters are WAY too small imo to judge a player as "clutch" or not. I'm MUCH more interested in how a player is shooting in last 2 or even 5 minutes. Where plays involve more than some crazy low percentage fadeaway or inbounds play in the wading seconds or the game.

THAT'S what I'm trying to investigate... Roses numbers get as time increases from the finish.

Sactown
03-08-2012, 01:04 AM
Numbers can be misleading, yeah, for sure.

I've seen D.Rose make game winning plays constantly. If it's not a shot then its a game winning assist or a game winning foul taken and free throws or a block...There's a reason a close game in the final minutes has been dubbed "MVP time". Because you give the ball to Derrick and watch him take over.

and Durant is arguably the best pure scorer in the league, I would trust him to take the final shot every time.

These are of the last 3 seasons maybe he had an off year.. to easily influenced by one year that's why I've been looking at the last 5 and his 2 or 3rd season in the league he had a horrible number

Shammyguy3
03-08-2012, 01:08 AM
I got the real stats

Don't worry about a link. This is what the website said.

:laugh:

justinnum1
03-08-2012, 01:09 AM
that was only the 3rd time in the last 10 years a bull hit a buzzer winner.

Hell of a shot, difficulty level 10.

alew510
03-08-2012, 01:41 AM
Kyrie Irving

WadeKobe
03-08-2012, 02:26 AM
Like in everything in life..the best when its on the line arent the "BEST." its usually the players who surround them...its just the fact the the real "CLUTCH" ppl cant get their own shot usuallyand they depend on someone getting them their shot.

:clap: This is the best post in the thread.

Good basketball = high percentage FGA

If you have a dominant player who can create their own high% shot, you give them the ball and let them go. If they draw a double team or a shooter breaks open, they should pass the ball. They can only shoot if its a high-percentage shot or there are no options.

Everyone is hating on LeBron for passing the ball when he drew a double team because he passed to Haslem who missed a shot that Haslem probably shouldn't have been taking. What most people don't realize is that because LeBron drew the double team, he forced a 3-on-2 for his teammates. Once he swung the ball to Haslem there was 4 seconds still on the clock. Chalmers' defender was rotating over to close out on Haslem and Mario Chalmers - a fantastic shooter - was wide open. Haslem should have kicked the ball right to Chalmers and the Heat win the game and LeBron looks like a genius for starting a beautiful play, drawing a double team, and kicking it out and getting his teammate a wide open game winner.

northsider
03-08-2012, 02:38 AM
that was only the 3rd time in the last 10 years a bull hit a buzzer winner.

Hell of a shot, difficulty level 10.

And 2 of them have happened by Rose in the last 2 years.

BULLSFAN0810
03-08-2012, 03:54 AM
:clap: This is the best post in the thread.

Good basketball = high percentage FGA

If you have a dominant player who can create their own high% shot, you give them the ball and let them go. If they draw a double team or a shooter breaks open, they should pass the ball. They can only shoot if its a high-percentage shot or there are no options.

Everyone is hating on LeBron for passing the ball when he drew a double team because he passed to Haslem who missed a shot that Haslem probably shouldn't have been taking. What most people don't realize is that because LeBron drew the double team, he forced a 3-on-2 for his teammates. Once he swung the ball to Haslem there was 4 seconds still on the clock. Chalmers' defender was rotating over to close out on Haslem and Mario Chalmers - a fantastic shooter - was wide open. Haslem should have kicked the ball right to Chalmers and the Heat win the game and LeBron looks like a genius for starting a beautiful play, drawing a double team, and kicking it out and getting his teammate a wide open game winner.

I really had no issue w LBJ and that play. I thought he was gonna force the jumper bc the Allstar game. It was a good play.imo he couldve forced it and tried to score.I think he needs to understand his team needs him to carry them in those situations.It was a good play,but imo he shouldve took it to the rack. He need to prove to us.Never have i felt this way about a player,but i wanna see him achieve the difficult. They said this guy was the real deal,and i see him no better than Grant Hill....I see the game but he seems to be affraid of it. Thats why i love Rose,he capitalized on LBJs ALLSTAR hiccup. Rose came out ,hit a game winner and then said " i wanna take the last shot"...jab..jab...uppercut(LBJ better than WHO?)

WadeKobe
03-08-2012, 06:07 AM
I really had no issue w LBJ and that play. I thought he was gonna force the jumper bc the Allstar game. It was a good play.imo he couldve forced it and tried to score.I think he needs to understand his team needs him to carry them in those situations.It was a good play,but imo he shouldve took it to the rack. He need to prove to us.Never have i felt this way about a player,but i wanna see him achieve the difficult. They said this guy was the real deal,and i see him no better than Grant Hill....I see the game but he seems to be affraid of it. Thats why i love Rose,he capitalized on LBJs ALLSTAR hiccup. Rose came out ,hit a game winner and then said " i wanna take the last shot"...jab..jab...uppercut(LBJ better than WHO?)

He's really proven just about everything people could want, but people are irrational. He played as well as anyone ever has in the history of the NBA in 2009, but his team sucked and they got beat. It isn't his fault he didn't win a championship in Cleveland. It's just a shame the world hates him for it. LBJ is clearly, clearly, clearly better than DRose. It really isn't close.

jp611
03-08-2012, 07:46 AM
In an argument, why would you EVER use 11 as a barometer of success unless trying to skew the stats... You know you were saying less than 10 and got owned

redwhitenblue
03-08-2012, 08:11 AM
THAT'S WHY I SAID 10 AND ****ING UNDER.. Learn to ****ing read god damnit.. and the other guy needs to learn to count..
Actually your grammar is what caused the problem, as you didn't say 10 and under. You said under 10 and less. And with rebounds you just said under 10.

Perhaps you should reread.

BULLSFAN0810
03-08-2012, 09:10 AM
He's really proven just about everything people could want, but people are irrational. He played as well as anyone ever has in the history of the NBA in 2009, but his team sucked and they got beat. It isn't his fault he didn't win a championship in Cleveland. It's just a shame the world hates him for it. LBJ is clearly, clearly, clearly better than DRose. It really isn't close.

He has proven alot,but when youre hyped like he is/was ppl expect more. See thats where he and Rose differ and Rose takes over. Unlike James you can turn on the TV read on sites and read,hear ppl say Rose isnt as good,or doesnt deserve. Then you look at James;he steps in gets all the praise...aint won ish! We all see the skill but nothing materialized from it.He blamed his Team for failure when in reality..and MIAMIANS can and should testify to this...HE HAS NO GAME(I MEAN HAS NO GO TO MOVES,POST GAME. ITS STRAIGHT FOWRD HEAD DOWN). James blamed everyone but himself for the losing in the finals,bolted Clevland saying the best TEAM in the regular season,isnt atleast a contender?! AND YOU ALL BOUGHT IT. I was disturbed because as i saw it,that team was made PERFECTLY for james. It let him do what he did best...DRIBBLE,PASS,MAKE ISH HAPPEN;All James had to do is develop...James had no low post game. Why? Because,James didnt develop a post game.No One better than he to develop one. James deffered from last second shots and when he did take them in Clev he became decent,but somewhere imo he decided he doesnt want that duty as i see it..I CALL IT THE SHEED RULE...SHEED WAS SOOO GOOOD IN PORTLAND,THEY WANTED TO MAKE HIM THE FOCUS OF OFFENSE.SHEED SAID NO,PORTLAND TRADED HIM. SHEED SAID HE'D RATHER PLAY ON A TEAM WHERE ALL SHARE WORKLOAD....PRESSURE! (THINK ABOUT IT) Clevland made a MJ type team for James whom we found out why the MJ-like team didnt pan out for James...He isnt MJ-like. We can go on and onn about the Rose/James debate. I guess its who you prefer. I prefer a Dominate player who is a leader and isnt scared to take last shots, man up over failures and constanly improves,and Rose fits the build.

ChicagoJ
03-08-2012, 11:58 AM
People can criticize all they want, but rose hitting the game winner yesterday after missing some closing shots last year in the playoffs just shows his development as a player. He's going to be one of those guys who takes the last shot and will deliver more times than not. He's got that edge where he wants the ball for the final shot and his confidence doesn't seem to wane. All the great closers have that and we are watching D rose develop that right now.

raiderfaninTX
03-08-2012, 12:10 PM
I just see a list of player who are no going to the finals this year outside of durant and lebron

and a list of players who were not in the finals last year ouside of lebron, so what does it matter?

WadeKobe
03-08-2012, 12:35 PM
People can criticize all they want, but rose hitting the game winner yesterday after missing some closing shots last year in the playoffs just shows his development as a player.

I'm not hating on Rose, I promise. i just need to point out why I hate talking sports with people who don't understand logic, specifically sports logic and the philosophy behind mathematical uses of statistics. I suggest this book as a help: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728.

Regardless, his having made 5 shots, with a high percentage, this regular season doesn't show us anything. Because...

1) It is too small of a sample size to mean anything.

2) Different defensive variables in this sample size.

(a)The shots he missed were against an elite, 6'8'' defender who is not only 6'8'', but also more athletic than Rose.
(b) The shots he has made and missed this year were against varying defenses and varyhing defenders.

3) The most recent shot, against Milwaukee, is nothing more than a random spike. Players don't start shooting better on final shots. They shoot as well as they would in any situation, often worse. Rose had not made a jump shot all day. So, the law of large numbers dictates that as he keeps shooting he will regress (or improve) towards his mean. If he shoots 40% from that area, and he is 0-7 on the day, the odds begin to favor him making that shot at some point. It may take until shot 40, but eventually he will regress (or improve) towards the mean. Meaning, it was nothing more than a make which fits into his pattern of shooting makes and misses.

It doesn't actually prove or show anything beyond that.



He's going to be one of those guys who takes the last shot and will deliver more times than not. He's got that edge where he wants the ball for the final shot and his confidence doesn't seem to wane. All the great closers have that and we are watching D rose develop that right now.

The key here is that you said he will "deliver more times than not." This is very likely completely untrue. This is not a vague statement without meaning to it. In the world of last-second shots it can mean only 1 thing:

- Derrick Rose will shoot higher than 50% for his career on such shots.

I can almost guarantee you he will not. Kobe hasn't. Jordan didn't. Both were better jump shooters than Rose. I would bet you $1,000 and give you 10:1 odds he does not shoot higher than 50% for his career.

But this is what happens in sports. We get emotional and we run our mouths and say really, really silly things which make no sense just because we fall into the pit of believing and perpetuating myths.

WadeKobe
03-08-2012, 12:38 PM
He has proven alot,but when youre hyped like he is/was ppl expect more. See thats where he and Rose differ and Rose takes over. Unlike James you can turn on the TV read on sites and read,hear ppl say Rose isnt as good,or doesnt deserve. Then you look at James;he steps in gets all the praise...aint won ish! We all see the skill but nothing materialized from it.He blamed his Team for failure when in reality..and MIAMIANS can and should testify to this...HE HAS NO GAME(I MEAN HAS NO GO TO MOVES,POST GAME. ITS STRAIGHT FOWRD HEAD DOWN). James blamed everyone but himself for the losing in the finals,bolted Clevland saying the best TEAM in the regular season,isnt atleast a contender?! AND YOU ALL BOUGHT IT. I was disturbed because as i saw it,that team was made PERFECTLY for james. It let him do what he did best...DRIBBLE,PASS,MAKE ISH HAPPEN;All James had to do is develop...James had no low post game. Why? Because,James didnt develop a post game.No One better than he to develop one. James deffered from last second shots and when he did take them in Clev he became decent,but somewhere imo he decided he doesnt want that duty as i see it..I CALL IT THE SHEED RULE...SHEED WAS SOOO GOOOD IN PORTLAND,THEY WANTED TO MAKE HIM THE FOCUS OF OFFENSE.SHEED SAID NO,PORTLAND TRADED HIM. SHEED SAID HE'D RATHER PLAY ON A TEAM WHERE ALL SHARE WORKLOAD....PRESSURE! (THINK ABOUT IT) Clevland made a MJ type team for James whom we found out why the MJ-like team didnt pan out for James...He isnt MJ-like. We can go on and onn about the Rose/James debate. I guess its who you prefer. I prefer a Dominate player who is a leader and isnt scared to take last shots, man up over failures and constanly improves,and Rose fits the build.

If you were taking a class on logic, your professor would give you one of these... :eyebrow:...

And then send you home.

However, most people are not very skilled or trained in logic, and they therefore try to psychoanalyze players they know nothing about and then fit their ad hoc psychoanalysis into their very unscientific equation and then pass it off as logic.

Sorry, sir, but nothing you said actually made sense.

85BearsDefense
03-08-2012, 12:50 PM
LBJ is afraid to fail, he needs to shoot clutch shots with confidence.

WadeKobe
03-08-2012, 12:55 PM
LBJ is afraid to fail, he needs to shoot clutch shots with confidence.

No he's not. He's shot tons of them. He prefers to make the right basketball play as opposed to take stupid low% shots.

But, again, we like to pretend we're able to psychoanalyze players then use it against them. :facepalm:

Cool007
03-08-2012, 02:05 PM
People are still making a big deal for LeBron passing it to Haslem (who was WIDE OPEN) for game winning shot?

Come on, even greatest player in Jordan has passed it to Bill wennington, Paxson, Kerr etc to win the game.

At the end of the day, LeBron was double teamed and he made the right play. Yes, he could have tried splitting the double team but it could have gone wrong way (turnover, poor shot etc).

IMO, Rose did the right thing last night (since Bucks didn't send double team - Stupid I know) while LeBron did the right thing by passing it to Haslem while LeBron was getting doubled.

People make big things out of nothing. It's not like Kobe hasn't passed it to Fisher for open shot or something.

ChicagoJ
03-08-2012, 06:37 PM
I'm not hating on Rose, I promise. i just need to point out why I hate talking sports with people who don't understand logic, specifically sports logic and the philosophy behind mathematical uses of statistics. I suggest this book as a help: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728.

The topic isn't always mathematical usage of statistics as it applies to sports logic. Perhaps you should clarify the topic when talking sports with some of the people that are getting to you or just not talk with them. How a player may develop is subjective, and selective statistics don't necessarily prove what will or will not happen. Also, assuming what someone knows about logic is..well a fallacy since you can never really know what someone else knows. :eyebrow:


Regardless, his having made 5 shots, with a high percentage, this regular season doesn't show us anything. Because...

1) It is too small of a sample size to mean anything.

2) Different defensive variables in this sample size.

(a)The shots he missed were against an elite, 6'8'' defender who is not only 6'8'', but also more athletic than Rose.

I wouldn't agree with the athleticism difference, but yes the sample size is too small to mean much if that's all you want to go on. What I said is more about his confidence in taking the last shot and how I think he will become a closer like other great closers. No one knows if he will or not, but that's why most people talk and debate sports. If everything was mathematical there wouldn't be much to talk about and outcomes could be predicted.


(b) The shots he has made and missed this year were against varying defenses and varyhing defenders.


3) The most recent shot, against Milwaukee, is nothing more than a random spike. Players don't start shooting better on final shots. They shoot as well as they would in any situation, often worse. Rose had not made a jump shot all day. So, the law of large numbers dictates that as he keeps shooting he will regress (or improve) towards his mean. If he shoots 40% from that area, and he is 0-7 on the day, the odds begin to favor him making that shot at some point. It may take until shot 40, but eventually he will regress (or improve) towards the mean. Meaning, it was nothing more than a make which fits into his pattern of shooting makes and misses.

It doesn't actually prove or show anything beyond that.

The key here is that you said he will "deliver more times than not." This is very likely completely untrue. This is not a vague statement without meaning to it. In the world of last-second shots it can mean only 1 thing:

- Derrick Rose will shoot higher than 50% for his career on such shots.

I can almost guarantee you he will not. Kobe hasn't. Jordan didn't. Both were better jump shooters than Rose. I would bet you $1,000 and give you 10:1 odds he does not shoot higher than 50% for his career.

Sure, he probably won't shoot more than 50% which means he won't make more times than not. So, I was off on that. However, the point was D rose will be a player who wants to take that last shot and I think he will be a great closer. Again, this isn't based on numbers. It's based on his character and everything I've seen from him spanning the past 2 seasons. So, the key was the point I was making, not whether or not he shoots greater than 50% in last final shots.


But this is what happens in sports. We get emotional and we run our mouths and say really, really silly things which make no sense just because we fall into the pit of believing and perpetuating myths.

Vincent
03-08-2012, 06:59 PM
I dunno why this discussion turned to LeBron, and it's sad that it did.

Derrick has done a fantastic job in late game situations this year (and he did so last year as well).

But he's also a 6'3 guard compared to other closers in the league like Kobe 6'6, Durant 6'10, Dirk 7'1, LeBron 6'8.

This wouldn't be a problem, but his way of getting separation is his use of speed and his ability to get to the hole. In late game situations, everyone is going to shut down the lane and force you to shoot from the perimeter.

Last night was encouraging because he took a long jumper to down the Bucks, however, prior to that point he's been pretty hesitant to do so (like in the playoffs against Miami last year).

He has the athleticism to create separation on a drive, but 90% will be met with resistance in the lane. He also has the ability to fake going to the lane and take that step-back jumper, but so far in career has yet to prove that he has the confidence to do it consistently.

Hopefully he can develop enough confidence to pop that jumper whenever the defense closes the lane, because it's truly an unguardable shot.

Doogolas
03-08-2012, 07:07 PM
That's the only argument ppl have against Lebron. At least he made it twice. Sucks he didn't win any.. But he's made MANY clutch shots in the playoffs to atleast make it there.

Idk about you but I prefer my star being clutch in the playoffs than regular season.

For the record with 2 minutes or less to play +/-5 in the playoffs Rose is 8/21 for 38% and LeBron is 37/87 for 42.5%.

:shrug: Neither number is very good.

Doogolas
03-08-2012, 07:13 PM
When did I ever "make up stats"? check it yourself those are career numbers

Nobody is particularly good in those situations, but Rose is 28% with under 24 seconds less and down between 1 and 3. Not 9% or 16% or whatever ridiculousness you posted.

http://bkref.com/tiny/3rsez

And again, pretty much everyone sucks in those situations. I can post more guys numbers if you don't believe me, but I'm feeling lazy at the moment.

Doogolas
03-08-2012, 07:22 PM
3) The most recent shot, against Milwaukee, is nothing more than a random spike. Players don't start shooting better on final shots. They shoot as well as they would in any situation, often worse. Rose had not made a jump shot all day. So, the law of large numbers dictates that as he keeps shooting he will regress (or improve) towards his mean. If he shoots 40% from that area, and he is 0-7 on the day, the odds begin to favor him making that shot at some point. It may take until shot 40, but eventually he will regress (or improve) towards the mean. Meaning, it was nothing more than a make which fits into his pattern of shooting makes and misses.


This is complete and utter ********. You cannot treat a human being like a computer. People are capable of actually having "off" days, where they simply are not as good as their averages, and they are also capable of having "on" days, where they are better than their averages. Come on man, you are preaching the proper use of statistics while you're very obviously misusing them. Talking about people like their numbers are absolutes and at all times true is insane. Just because someone is a 44% average shooter from a spot does not mean, in any fashion, that every shot he puts up from there has a 44% chance of going in. Nor does a guy being off mean that he's due for a shot to fall. People do not work that way.

CudiOnMyiPod
03-08-2012, 07:48 PM
How do you not put Dirk is the poll...

How do you put Amare in the poll....

WadeKobe
03-08-2012, 07:51 PM
This is complete and utter ********.

No it's not, I'll explain why...


You cannot treat a human being like a computer. People are capable of actually having "off" days, where they simply are not as good as their averages, and they are also capable of having "on" days, where they are better than their averages.


Agreed. This is one of the reasons why FG% varies from year to year. More hot days, less cold days, etc.



Come on man, you are preaching the proper use of statistics while you're very obviously misusing them. Talking about people like their numbers are absolutes and at all times true is insane. Just because someone is a 44% average shooter from a spot does not mean, in any fashion, that every shot he puts up from there has a 44% chance of going in. Nor does a guy being off mean that he's due for a shot to fall. People do not work that way.

Actually, it does work that way. Even a player having an off day is more likely to shoot 15% from 20 feet than 0% from 20 feet. If he's a 40% shooter from that location, the longer his drought, the more likely he is to hit a shot. He may not hit that shot, but shots fall for people who can shoot 40% from a spot.

A 40% shooter who is 0-8 is due to hit a shot. If his shot is off for the day, it may not be as high a chance as on an on day, or even a normal day, but the fact is that the shooter is due to hit a shot.

CudiOnMyiPod
03-08-2012, 07:51 PM
I just see a list of player who are no going to the finals this year outside of durant and lebron

and a list of players who were not in the finals last year ouside of lebron, so what does it matter?

Dirk had 62 points in the 4th quarter in the Finals, hit 2 game winners, hit a huge 3 in game 2, and closed out game 6 at Miami to win the Finals. Still gets no respect. We're here talking about garbage like Carmelo and Amare...

WadeKobe
03-08-2012, 08:24 PM
Dirk had 62 points in the 4th quarter in the Finals, hit 2 game winners, hit a huge 3 in game 2, and closed out game 6 at Miami to win the Finals. Still gets no respect. We're here talking about garbage like Carmelo and Amare...

Yup. If I have to choose one super star, I'm picking in this order:

1) Dirk
2) LeBron
3) Dirk

CudiOnMyiPod
03-08-2012, 08:26 PM
Yup. If I have to choose one super star, I'm picking in this order:

1) Dirk
2) LeBron
3) Dirk

Yay a knowledgeable poster. But seriously... Amare freaking Stoudemire is on the poll...

barreleffact
03-08-2012, 09:33 PM
Where is Paul on this list?

Also, serious question. Why do people assume Durant is clutch? He is too skinny to fight though good defenders to clear space and I am unable to recall any big shots he has made. Thinking last years playoffs he shot an ill advised shot over Marion that was feet out from the arc. Why? I know that is just one series, but where are the series or moments that validate his worth of the title?

29$JerZ
03-08-2012, 11:52 PM
Missed a FT that would have made the game a 3pt game

jp611
03-08-2012, 11:57 PM
Missed a FT that would have made the game a 3pt game

He was bad tonight

justinnum1
03-08-2012, 11:57 PM
Missed a FT that would have made the game a 3pt game

He was tired. But he does need to work on clutch FT's.

SportsFanatic10
03-09-2012, 12:02 AM
amare gets my vote since that poll is a joke. seriously...no dirk/wade/cp3/pierce/dwill? hell monte should be on there over amare lol.

29$JerZ
03-09-2012, 12:11 AM
He was tired. But he does need to work on clutch FT's.

Been like this since College