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xxplayerxx23
03-03-2012, 11:20 PM
Bascally doing this thread because of an arguement when it comes to brook Lopez, so for this year, and I guess to get lopez into the discussion go back to last year and the 4 games this year lol

*Silver&Black*
03-03-2012, 11:22 PM
Can we add Horford, or is this just for this year, and then Horford will just be inserted back in next year?

Edit: Well since you are talking about Lopez, I guess Horford is included too.

xxplayerxx23
03-03-2012, 11:24 PM
oh my bad yeah I guess since I want lopez included then hofard and bogut should be too

*Silver&Black*
03-03-2012, 11:37 PM
this is just my opinion (and based off of the NBA's respect towards the players, all-star selections, etc):

1. Howard
2. Bynum (I still question this, though Laker fans would jump me on here if I didn't put him here)
3. Horford (2 time all-star center, that has yet to be on a team that allows him to even be a 2nd option.)
4. Lopez
5. Gasol
6. Gortat
7. Bogut
8. Noah
9. Al Jefferson
10. Nene

Edit: forgot Hibbert. He should be around the 6-7 mark.

KJ21.the.truth
03-03-2012, 11:37 PM
Dwight
Bynum
Bogut
Lopez
Horford
Chandler
Marc
Nene
Hibbert
Noah
Gortat
Jefferson
Mcgee



Top 13, order isnt set in any stone but these r obviously the top guys.

CubZwin38
03-03-2012, 11:42 PM
Dwight
Bynum
Bogut
Lopez
Horford
Chandler
Marc
Nene
Hibbert
Noah
Gortat
Jefferson
Mcgee



Top 13, order isnt set in any stone but these r obviously the top guys.

Don't forget about the young guy in Detroit, Greg Monroe.

Lakers + Giants
03-03-2012, 11:44 PM
If I had to make my own list in which i rank centers 1-10 based on who I think are the best centers in the league RIGHT NOW.

1. Dwight

2. Bynum
3. Lopez
4. Marc Gasol

5. Monroe
6. Horford
7. Cousins
8. Hibbert
9. Nene
10. Chandler

Bogut, Gortat, Pekovic and Noah are also centers who play like top 10 centers every so often.

ball4reel
03-03-2012, 11:57 PM
Dwight

Bynum
Marc G
Chandler
Lopez
Hibbert
Horford
Nene

llemon
03-04-2012, 12:08 AM
If I had to make my own list in which i rank centers 1-10 based on who I think are the best centers in the league RIGHT NOW.

1. Dwight

2. Bynum
3. Lopez
4. Marc Gasol

5. Monroe
6. Horford
7. Cousins
8. Hibbert
9. Nene
10. Chandler

Bogut, Gortat, Pekovic and Noah are also centers who play like top 10 centers every so often.

Just out of curiousity, what makes you rate Gasol, Monroe, Cousins, Hibbert, T. Chandler, Gortat, Pekovic and Noah below Brook Lopez?

Horford and Nene I understand, as they are PFs.

fadedmario
03-04-2012, 12:09 AM
1 Dwight Howard
2 Marc Gasol
3 Greg Monroe
4 DeMarcus Cousins
5 Andrew Bynum
6 Tyson Chandler
7 Roy Hibbert
8 Joakim Noah
9 Andrew Bogut
10 Al Horford
11 Nene
12 Nikola Pekovic
13 Brook Lopez
14 Marcin Gortat
15 Al Jefferson

If I had to choose right now going forward , this is my list.

LTBaByyy
03-04-2012, 12:12 AM
Lopez is not better than Howard, Bynum, Gasol, Horford, Chandler, Cousins, Hibbert, and even Gortat and Bogut (Healthy)

Lopez doesn't play defense or rebound

He scores, should be a PF

Raph12
03-04-2012, 12:13 AM
Dwight Howard stands above them all; then Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Greg Monroe, DeMarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Brook Lopez, Marcin Gortat and Nikola Pekovic, not in any specific order...

llemon
03-04-2012, 12:18 AM
1 Dwight Howard
2 Marc Gasol
3 Greg Monroe
4 DeMarcus Cousins
5 Andrew Bynum
6 Tyson Chandler
7 Roy Hibbert
8 Joakim Noah
9 Andrew Bogut
10 Al Horford
11 Nene
12 Nikola Pekovic
13 Brook Lopez
14 Marcin Gortat
15 Al Jefferson

If I had to choose right now going forward , this is my list.

Why Nene?

And why Gortat and Al Jeff below Lopez?

Lakeshow24KB
03-04-2012, 12:18 AM
1 Dwight Howard
2 Marc Gasol
3 Greg Monroe
4 DeMarcus Cousins
5 Andrew Bynum
6 Tyson Chandler
7 Roy Hibbert
8 Joakim Noah
9 Andrew Bogut
10 Al Horford
11 Nene
12 Nikola Pekovic
13 Brook Lopez
14 Marcin Gortat
15 Al Jefferson


If I had to choose right now going forward , this is my list.

Cousins and Monroe over Bynum? :facepalm:

fadedmario
03-04-2012, 12:23 AM
Cousins and Monroe over Bynum? :facepalm:

If I was starting a team right now. I'd take both over Bynum. Cousins/Monroe are only 21 years old and already dominant. Also, Bynum is always injured and I don't like his ghetto attitude.

I know Cousins has some issues too, but he seems more balanced playing for Keith Smart.

Lakeshow24KB
03-04-2012, 12:31 AM
If I was starting a team right now. I'd take both over Bynum. Cousins/Monroe are only 21 years old and already dominant. Also, Bynum is always injured and I don't like his ghetto attitude.

I know Cousins has some issues too, but he seems more balanced playing for Keith Smart.

Why does age matter in this situation? Drew is just 24 years old. And so far this year he has been fine injury wise and Andrew Bynum is already dominant. And saying that Bynum has more of a ghetto attitude than Cousins is false.

Anyways, Bynum is averaging 16 and 13, and possibly much much more on the right team.

Cousins is averaging 16 and 11, and he too could average much better stats if on the right team.

Greg Monroe is averaging 16 and 10.

But Andrew Bynum is much better down low in the post is playing really good defense this year. He is also a terrific passer. But right now, if you really want to pick those two over Bynum, then you would be missing out IMO

Jesse2272
03-04-2012, 12:34 AM
Tyson is killing it this year in eff

Top 3?

JWO35
03-04-2012, 12:36 AM
In all honesty, this is pretty hard...its arguably the weakest of all the positions
1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Marc Gasol
4. Al Horford
5. Greg Monroe
T6. Roy Hibbert
T6. DeMarcus Cousins
8. Al Jefferson
9. Tyson Chandler
10. Joakim Noah

fadedmario
03-04-2012, 12:39 AM
Why does age matter in this situation? Drew is just 24 years old. And so far this year he has been fine injury wise and Andrew Bynum is already dominant. And saying that Bynum has more of a ghetto attitude than Cousins is false.

Anyways, Bynum is averaging 16 and 13, and possibly much much more on the right team.

Cousins is averaging 16 and 11, and he too could average much better stats if on the right team.

Greg Monroe is averaging 16 and 10.

But Andrew Bynum is much better down low in the post is playing really good defense this year. He is also a terrific passer. But right now, if you really want to pick those two over Bynum, then you would be missing out IMO

Fair enough. You may be right. Bynum is having a hell of a season.

NetSymptom
03-04-2012, 12:42 AM
I'd probably go with:

1- Dwight Howard
2- Andrew Bynum
3- Marc Gasol
4- Tyson Chandler
5- Brook Lopez
6- Demarcus Cousins
7- Greg Monroe
8- Roy Hibbert
9- Joakim Noah
10- Al Jefferson

*Edit- If you are wondering why Nene or Horford aren't on the list, that is because I consider them PFs playing out of position. If I had done this list a few years ago, I would have said the same thing about Amar'e when he was playing Center for the Suns.

llemon
03-04-2012, 12:43 AM
I'd probably go with:

1- Dwight Howard
2- Andrew Bynum
3- Marc Gasol
4- Tyson Chandler
5- Brook Lopez
6- Demarcus Cousins
7- Greg Monroe
8- Roy Hibbert
9- Joakim Noah
10- Al Jefferson

That's because you are a Net fan.

Jesse2272
03-04-2012, 12:45 AM
^^^ I agree with this list

fadedmario
03-04-2012, 12:45 AM
Why Nene?

And why Gortat and Al Jeff below Lopez?

Yeah, you're right. Switch Al Jeff and Lopez.

NetSymptom
03-04-2012, 12:49 AM
That's because you are a Net fan.

I'll move Monroe and Cousins ahead of Lopez when they've done it for one more season. Simple as that.

I haven't watched enough of Hibbert to make an accurate assessment, so you got me there.

Joakim Noah is meh to me. I appreciate the hustle and defense, but I prefer a guy who can get me two points in the paint when I need it.

I appreciate the feedback, and would love to provide some if you venture to make your own list.

xILLN355
03-04-2012, 12:52 AM
If I had to make my own list in which i rank centers 1-10 based on who I think are the best centers in the league RIGHT NOW.

1. Dwight

2. Bynum
3. Lopez
4. Marc Gasol

5. Monroe
6. Horford
7. Cousins
8. Hibbert
9. Nene
10. Chandler

Bogut, Gortat, Pekovic and Noah are also centers who play like top 10 centers every so often.

basically this

llemon
03-04-2012, 12:53 AM
I'll move Monroe and Cousins ahead of Lopez when they've done it for one more season. Simple as that.

I haven't watched enough of Hibbert to make an accurate assessment, so you got me there.

Joakim Noah is meh to me. I appreciate the hustle and defense, but I prefer a guy who can get me two points in the paint when I need it.

I appreciate the feedback, and would love to provide some if you venture to make your own list.

If Nets were a good team, Lopez would draw much more attention, and those two points in the paint would become more difficult, especially as Brook is somewhat less than a decent passer.

And I don't make lists. The NBA is a game-to-game league, in case you hadn't noticed.

xxplayerxx23
03-04-2012, 01:01 AM
If Nets were a good team, Lopez would draw much more attention, and those two points in the paint would become more difficult, especially as Brook is somewhat less than a decent passer.

And I don't make lists. The NBA is a game-to-game league, in case you hadn't noticed.

But lopez can consitantly hit the 15 footer, And he is very strong in the paint, Cant double him when you have williams morrow and brooks on the outside, It makes no sense if the nets were good he would draw more attention, It would be now where he would, He has a decent team, thats right I called the nets decent, if they were healthy they would be in the race for the 8 seed, Anyway Lopez is def better then Noah like I said in the other thread to you And you laughed, He is a very good Center, and Healthy is top 5-7 center

NetSymptom
03-04-2012, 01:01 AM
If Nets were a good team, Lopez would draw much more attention, and those two points in the paint would become more difficult, especially as Brook is somewhat less than a decent passer.

And I don't make lists. The NBA is a game-to-game league, in case you hadn't noticed.

I disagree strongly with both points, but would prefer not to derail the thread further.

No sense in the few Nets fans around fighting amongst ourselves. Feel free to PM if you think I'm just trying to avoid a debate, but if not have a good night. I hope the Nets get Dwight/championship team together soon to appease the longtime suffering fans such as yourself.

shep33
03-04-2012, 01:08 AM
I'd probably go with:

1- Dwight Howard
2- Andrew Bynum
3- Marc Gasol
4- Tyson Chandler
5- Brook Lopez
6- Demarcus Cousins
7- Greg Monroe
8- Roy Hibbert
9- Joakim Noah
10- Al Jefferson

*Edit- If you are wondering why Nene or Horford aren't on the list, that is because I consider them PFs playing out of position. If I had done this list a few years ago, I would have said the same thing about Amar'e when he was playing Center for the Suns.

I like this list. Cousins a bit lower though

llemon
03-04-2012, 01:11 AM
But lopez can consitantly hit the 15 footer, And he is very strong in the paint, Cant double him when you have williams morrow and brooks on the outside, It makes no sense if the nets were good he would draw more attention, It would be now where he would, He has a decent team, thats right I called the nets decent, if they were healthy they would be in the race for the 8 seed, Anyway Lopez is def better then Noah like I said in the other thread to you And you laughed, He is a very good Center, and Healthy is top 5-7 center

I'm not in here to shatter a young Net fans dreams.

Believe what you will, and good luck to you and our Nets.

Bulls_fan90
03-04-2012, 01:12 AM
I see Gortat is not getting any respect. Easily a top 10 center. Why is Lopez suddenly so high on so many lists? Dude gets less rebounds than Rondo.

Joshtd1
03-04-2012, 01:15 AM
Shame Splitter doesn't get 30+ minutes a night which he deserves, would be a top 10 center.

xxplayerxx23
03-04-2012, 01:16 AM
I'm not in here to shatter a young Net fans dreams.

Believe what you will, and good luck to you and our Nets.

Are you kidding me Im not a nets fan :speechless::speechless::speechless::speechless::s peechless:

Lakeshow24KB
03-04-2012, 01:18 AM
Fair enough. You may be right. Bynum is having a hell of a season.

Monroe and Cousins have huge potential though and they will be te beat centers when they fully blossom.

Lakeshow24KB
03-04-2012, 01:19 AM
I see Gortat is not getting any respect. Easily a top 10 center. Why is Lopez suddenly so high on so many lists? Dude gets less rebounds than Rondo.

Lol Gortat is kicking *** this season.

Lakersfan2483
03-04-2012, 01:22 AM
1. D. Howard
2. A. Bynum
3. M. Gasol
4. Nene
5. R. Hibbert
6. A. Jefferson
7. J. Noah
8. T. Chandler
9. B. Lopez
10. A. Horford/A. Bogut/Cousins/Monroe

UPRock
03-04-2012, 01:23 AM
1: Dwight Howard
2: Dwight Howard
3: Dwight Howard
4: Dwight Howard
5: Byron Mullens
and the rest...

Chacarron
03-04-2012, 01:30 AM
1) Howard
2) Bynum
3) M. Gasol
4) Horford
5) Lopez
6) Monroe
7) Hibbert
8) Chandler
9) Bogut
10) Gortat

metsfan99999
03-04-2012, 01:33 AM
1. Howard
2. Bynum
3. Gasol
4. Chandler
5. Monroe
6. Horford
7. Bogut
8. Noah
9. Jefferson
10. Lopez

Silent
03-04-2012, 01:39 AM
Howard
Hibbert
Noah
Bynum
Cousins
Chandler
Gasol
Pek
Jefferson
Bogut
Gortat

Avenged
03-04-2012, 01:49 AM
Dwight
Bynum
Marc Gasol

make my top 3 for sure.

Then

Monroe/Hibbert/Tyson/Noah/Lopez/Jefferson/Cousins

in any order.

Lopez is kind of hard to rank due to his lack of rebounds.. He only averaged 6 rpg last season, and in the 4 games he's played this season is averaging 3.. He's a big offensive threat (perhaps the biggest in terms of Centers) but I like my centers to be able to do what they're suppose to which is rebound.

xxplayerxx23
03-04-2012, 01:52 AM
Dwight
Bynum
Marc Gasol

make my top 3 for sure.

Then

Monroe/Hibbert/Tyson/Noah/Lopez/Jefferson/Cousins

in any order.

Lopez is kind of hard to rank due to his lack of rebounds.. He only averaged 6 rpg last season, and in the 4 games he's played this season is averaging 3.. He's a big offensive threat (perhaps the biggest in terms of Centers) but I like my centers to be able to do what they're suppose to which is rebound.

I agree, but I think lopez would rebound more if hump wasnt there, I thnk once he getsfully heathy and into the flow this year he will average 18-22 and 6.5-8.5 rebounds

RipCity32
03-04-2012, 01:52 AM
1.Howard
2.Bynum
3.Gasol
4.Jefferson
5.Gortat (he has been really good this year)
6.Monroe
7.Cousins
8.Lopez
9.Hibbert
10.Horford
(If Bogut could stay healthy he would be top five)

Kings Faithful
03-04-2012, 02:44 AM
Cousins is being underrated on alot of your guys list... his stats are the 3rd best out of every center in the league... and the two guys ahead of him average 5 minutes more a game...those guys being Howard and Bynum. Not to mention Cousins has dominated alot of the premier centers in the league in their matchups, the only guy i've seen give cousins fits so far was Samuel Dalembert.

Raph12
03-04-2012, 03:58 AM
Noah is overrated and Horford is a PF... Like I said, Dwight stands above them all; then you got Big Al, Bynum, Monroe, Cousins, MGasol, Hibbert, BLopez, Gortat, Chandler and possibly Pekovic (have to see how he plays for the rest of the season) all have a case for #2-10.

PS: For everyone talking about how weak the center position is; it seems pretty strong when compared to the SG position;

1. Wade
2. Kobe
(dropoff)

3. Ginobli
4. Harden
(dropoff)

5. Monta
6. Iggy
7. KMart
8. JoeJohnson
9. Tyreke
10. Rayray?

After that second dropoff there is a significant difference between the #5 player (Monta) and those listed before him. Each and every center I listed (and a couple of "hon. mentions" I left out) are putting up better numbers than all of the SGs listed after James Harden... Looks like we found our new, weakest position; ladies and gentlemen, the SG.

Rndy
03-04-2012, 04:34 AM
Why would you say Noah is overrated just curious. I think he's pretty underated he's not a great scorer but his Rebounding, Passing, Ability to out run most Centers on fast breaks and his perimeter defense is pretty great. His post defense still needs work but it has improved this year but his help defense and switching is fantastic in my opinion. I think Center is a pretty weak and outside of Howard, Gasol, Bynum the rest are pretty close.

Lopez in my opinion is overrated how does a 7 foot center have a career 504 efg% and a 12.9 trb%.

PacersForLife
03-04-2012, 04:35 AM
1. Howard
2. Bynum
3. Gasol
4. Hibbert
5. Lopez
6. Monroe
7. Cousins
8. Chandler
9. Noah
10. Gortat

PacersForLife
03-04-2012, 04:38 AM
Noah is overrated and Horford is a PF... Like I said, Dwight stands above them all; then you got Big Al, Bynum, Monroe, Cousins, MGasol, Hibbert, BLopez, Gortat, Chandler and possibly Pekovic (have to see how he plays for the rest of the season) all have a case for #2-10.

PS: For everyone talking about how weak the center position is; it seems pretty strong when compared to the SG position;

1. Wade
2. Kobe
(dropoff)

3. Ginobli
4. Harden
(dropoff)

5. Monta
6. Iggy
7. KMart
8. JoeJohnson
9. Tyreke
10. Rayray?

After that second dropoff there is a significant difference between the #5 player (Monta) and those listed before him. Each and every center I listed (and a couple of "hon. mentions" I left out) are putting up better numbers than all of the SGs listed after James Harden... Looks like we found our new, weakest position; ladies and gentlemen, the SG.

Monta is a better scorer than Harden and Ginobili and Iggy isn't an SG. You are right though, the SG is quietly very star-lacking.

Ovratd1up
03-04-2012, 04:39 AM
Noah is overrated and Horford is a PF... Like I said, Dwight stands above them all; then you got Big Al, Bynum, Monroe, Cousins, MGasol, Hibbert, BLopez, Gortat, Chandler and possibly Pekovic (have to see how he plays for the rest of the season) all have a case for #2-10.

PS: For everyone talking about how weak the center position is; it seems pretty strong when compared to the SG position;

1. Wade
2. Kobe
(dropoff)

3. Ginobli
4. Harden
(dropoff)

5. Monta
6. Iggy
7. KMart
8. JoeJohnson
9. Tyreke
10. Rayray?

After that second dropoff there is a significant difference between the #5 player (Monta) and those listed before him. Each and every center I listed (and a couple of "hon. mentions" I left out) are putting up better numbers than all of the SGs listed after James Harden... Looks like we found our new, weakest position; ladies and gentlemen, the SG.

I agree about positional weakness. PG and PF are clearly the strongest positions we have (and Brandon Jennings sucks).

In what regard is Noah overrated?

Ovratd1up
03-04-2012, 04:41 AM
Monta is a better scorer than Harden and Ginobli and Iggy isn't an SG. You are right though, the SG is quietly very star-lacking.

They are extremely hard to compare because of their roles... in games the latter two score MUCH more easily and efficiently than Monta, but both have been third or second options and not been forced upon shots as has Ellis.

Raph12
03-04-2012, 04:47 AM
I agree about positional weakness. PG and PF are clearly the strongest positions we have (and Brandon Jennings sucks).

In what regard is Noah overrated?

Overrated by posters putting him above any of these centers: Big Al, Bynum, Monroe, Cousins, MGasol, Hibbert, BLopez, Gortat, Chandler and possibly Pekovic (have to see how he plays for the rest of the season)... If you're debating only defense and rebounding, he may be higher on the list, but all of those guys are better "all-around" players.

PacersForLife
03-04-2012, 04:51 AM
They are extremely hard to compare because of their roles... in games the latter two score MUCH more easily and efficiently than Monta, but both have been third or second options and not been forced upon shots as has Ellis.

That is true, but it just depends on the team the guy is on I guess. Because I'm a Pacers fan the player that comes to mind is Danny Granger. He was one of the better scorers in the league when his team sucked. Now that his team is good he is more of an all-around player.

Ovratd1up
03-04-2012, 05:00 AM
Overrated by posters putting him above any of these centers: Big Al, Bynum, Monroe, Cousins, MGasol, Hibbert, BLopez, Gortat, Chandler and possibly Pekovic (have to see how he plays for the rest of the season)... If you're debating only defense and rebounding, he may be higher on the list, but all of those guys are better "all-around" players.

Don't mean to sound snarky (holy **** what does that even mean? I've never used that word before) but I asked in what regard he was overrated, not by whom. What about him, which facets of his game, are overrated?

Pakman
03-04-2012, 05:12 AM
1 Dwight Howard
2 Marc Gasol
3 Greg Monroe
4 DeMarcus Cousins
5 Andrew Bynum
6 Tyson Chandler
7 Roy Hibbert
8 Joakim Noah
9 Andrew Bogut
10 Al Horford
11 Nene
12 Nikola Pekovic
13 Brook Lopez
14 Marcin Gortat
15 Al Jefferson

If I had to choose right now going forward , this is my list.Lmfao Monroe and cousins over Bynum.

Raph12
03-04-2012, 05:14 AM
Don't mean to sound snarky (holy **** what does that even mean? I've never used that word before) but I asked in what regard he was overrated, not by whom. What about him, which facets of his game, are overrated?

Well that's the thing, people tend to make their rankings all "willy-nilly" (if you're going to use "snarky", we might as well "prep it up"), they don't actually compare and contrast between the players. They tend to just follow popular belief/the media, whenever they are comparing players... For example, not many people know that Big Al has been playing good ball in Utah, carrying that young team and leading them to a near 500 record. Players in smaller markets are overlooked often, so when I see a name like Noah or Chandler in the Top 5 in a list like this, it makes one believe said player is overrated.

Oh and just for the sake of arguement; his defense is overrated, he's a very weak post defender (gives up 0.96PPP which is good for 127th in the league), despite popular belief.

Rndy
03-04-2012, 05:17 AM
Well that's the thing, people tend to make their rankings all "willy-nilly" (if you're going to use "snarky", we might as well "prep it up"), they don't actually compare and contrast between the players. They tend to just follow popular belief/the media, whenever they are comparing players... For example, not many people know that Big Al has been playing good ball in Utah, carrying that young team and leading them to a near 500 record. Players in smaller markets are overlooked often, so when I see a name like Noah or Chandler in the Top 5 in a list like this, it makes one believe said player is overrated.

Oh and just for the sake of arguement; his defense is overrated, he's a very weak post defender (gives up 0.96PPP which is good for 127th in the league), despite popular belief.

I love Big AL on my fantasy team! Noah does need to improve his post defense. Defensive stats are something I'm not great with. But how much do you think it factors in that he has to constantly help because of Boozer. Any Bulls fan who watches the games can tell you Noah struggles with the Bigger Centers in the post. His defense is considered better because of his perimeter and help defense. And his rebounding is good.

I still think Lopez gets overrated on these forums. Must be the flavor of the month. I just don't find his rebounding acceptable. Kris takes a lot of his rebounding oppurunity but that doesn't stop a guy like Noah on boards with Boozer who also is a good rebounder. I'm not sure what exactly all around means to you. But all around Noah is def a lot higher of a Center in that reguard. Consider he's one of the better rebounders and passers. He's good at a lot of things. To say Chandler is more of an all around player I just don't agree with that. I say that as someone who has watched both of those guys since they got into the league. My opinion of course.

my top 5
Howard

Gasol
Bynum
Jefferson-Monroe

DaBear
03-04-2012, 05:23 AM
Brook Lopez is the most overrated C. He scores, but can't rebound for ****.

Rndy
03-04-2012, 05:31 AM
He's not even efficient. I don't understand it at all.

Ovratd1up
03-04-2012, 05:35 AM
Well that's the thing, people tend to make their rankings all "willy-nilly" (if you're going to use "snarky", we might as well "prep it up")

To be completely honest, I understand none of these three terms :laugh2:


they don't actually compare and contrast between the players. They tend to just follow popular belief/the media, whenever they are comparing players... For example, not many people know that Big Al has been playing good ball in Utah, carrying that young team and leading them to a near 500 record. Players in smaller markets are overlooked often, so when I see a name like Noah or Chandler in the Top 5 in a list like this, it makes one believe said player is overrated.


Yeah, this much is evident. I wonder how many people realize just to what extent these rankings tend to be superficial and hollow, but yeah, the process that should invoke somewhat complex and critical analysis turns out to be just simple enough to be molded by popular opinion and left to the further shaped others, subject to the same institutional forces that have alread... oh ****, I'm rambling. You get the point, I don't think many others do.


Oh and just for the sake of arguement; his defense is overrated, he's a very weak post defender (gives up 0.96PPP which is good for 127th in the league), despite popular belief.

Yeah, this is pretty well known too though (I'm predicting a shift in about a year in which more than 50% recognize Noah's post defense as overrated, and it thereafter becomes underrated). But practically every other aspect of Noah's game is, if not underrated, overlooked, instead bottled and labeled by terms like "hustle," "dirty work," and "intangibles." They might be unquantifiable for the time being, but their effect on the game is definitely tangible. If these aspects were more closely inspected, I'd have to think that we'd find them to be more important and contribute more to basketball for Noah, and the league as a whole, than most of the catch-all terms brought up in threads like these.

Raph12
03-04-2012, 05:37 AM
I love Big AL on my fantasy team! Noah does need to improve his post defense. Defensive stats are something I'm not great with. But how much do you think it factors in that he has to constantly help because of Boozer. Any Bulls fan who watches the games can tell you Noah struggles with the Bigger Centers in the post. His defense is considered better because of his perimeter and help defense. And his rebounding is good.

That may be a factor as to why he gives up more points than he should, but considering the fact that Dwight has played with guys like Shard, Bass and Ryan Anderson in the past 4-5 years, and still led the league most of those years in all related defensive categories; I think it is doable. But considering most of the stats from Synergy Sports pretty accurately captures the moment (so if he's recovering off of help, it may be under "spotup" or "cut" defense, and not under "post plays"), I doubt that would affect his numbers in postup situations... He can cover a lot of floor and is probably second to Dwight among centers in guarding other positions, but don't be fooled, Thibideau's system helps to pad those stats team-wide (making all of his team's players look better than they really are).


I still think Lopez gets overrated on these forums. Must be the flavor of the month. I just don't find his rebounding acceptable. Kris takes a lot of his rebounding oppurunity but that doesn't stop a guy like Noah on boards with Boozer who also is a good rebounder.

His rebounding numbers do take a hit due to Humphries (who loves to pad his numbers), but his injury has also affected him and it seems he prefers to dedicate himself to offense and defense instead of to the glass. He's shown he can rebound respectively (8.6rpg in his sophmore season) when motivated, but he'll never be the rebounder a guy like Noah is... He's always been better than Noah overall and always among the Top 10 centers, how he plays out the rest of the season will tell us more about his rank though.

Raph12
03-04-2012, 05:48 AM
To be completely honest, I understand none of these three terms :laugh2:

I'm not going to lie, I know of these terms, wouldn't use them (unless I'm around my profs) but I figured that if you can do it, so can I lol.


Yeah, this much is evident. I wonder how many people realize just to what extent these rankings tend to be superficial and hollow, but yeah, the process that should invoke somewhat complex and critical analysis turns out to be just simple enough to be molded by popular opinion and left to the further shaped others, subject to the same institutional forces that have alread... oh ****, I'm rambling. You get the point, I don't think many others do.

Exactly. The thought-process tends to consist of "hmm what can I say that would get the least hate overall"... Lazy.


Yeah, this is pretty well known too though (I'm predicting a shift in about a year in which more than 50% recognize Noah's post defense as overrated, and it thereafter becomes underrated). But practically every other aspect of Noah's game is, if not underrated, overlooked, instead bottled and labeled by terms like "hustle," "dirty work," and "intangibles." They might be unquantifiable for the time being, but their effect on the game is definitely tangible. If these aspects were more closely inspected, I'd have to think that we'd find them to be more important and contribute more to basketball for Noah, and the league as a whole, than most of the catch-all terms brought up in threads like these.

That's what tends to happen, whenever something becomes the "popular belief", people run with it, they blow it up and it becomes much bigger than it is.

As for "intangibles", they are immeasurable and I can't honestly say I watch enough games to objectively analyze his impact on the game. So until stats like that become available, we have to work with what we have; ergo, Noah is not a Top 10 center.

Rndy
03-04-2012, 05:53 AM
That may be a factor as to why he gives up more points than he should, but considering the fact that Dwight has played with guys like Shard, Bass and Ryan Anderson in the past 4-5 years, and still led the league most of those years in all related defensive categories; I think it is doable. But considering most of the stats from Synergy Sports pretty accurately captures the moment (so if he's recovering off of help, it may be under "spotup" or "cut" defense, and not under "post plays"), I doubt that would affect his numbers in postup situations... He can cover a lot of floor and is probably second to Dwight among centers in guarding other positions, but don't be fooled, Thibideau's system helps to pad those stats team-wide (making all of his team's players look better than they really are).



His rebounding numbers do take a hit due to Humphries (who loves to pad his numbers), but his injury has also affected him and it seems he prefers to dedicate himself to offense and defense instead of to the glass. He's shown he can rebound respectively (8.6rpg in his sophmore season) when motivated, but he'll never be the rebounder a guy like Noah is... He's always been better than Noah overall and always among the Top 10 centers, how he plays out the rest of the season will tell us more about his rank though.

Yeah I understand what you're saying, with Howard playing with less talent front court players he's such a freak of an athlete it's alot easier for him to recover. I'm still not sure Lopez will ever be a great rebounder trb% has always been pretty hard on him. I don't really get it he's so tall and such a good athlete I don't know if he just doesn't read the ball well while trying to get rebounds or if he's just kinda lazy on the boards.

I will say if he ever gets a full year with Deron he could end up being a top 5. Deron is so great at passing he gives guys easy looks. Boozers efficiency in Utah was helped a great deal by a guy like Deron who's much better in pick and roll then Rose. Although I'll give Rose credit he's gotten better but he's more of a pick and pop.

UnWantedTheory
03-04-2012, 05:55 AM
They are extremely hard to compare because of their roles... in games the latter two score MUCH more easily and efficiently than Monta, but both have been third or second options and not been forced upon shots as has Ellis.

As a Spurs fan I can say this is false in regards to Gino. He has been our number one guy the last couple of years and if healthy is still our best player at age 34. Gino can score as good as anyone and is definitely a more well rounded player and a great facilitator compared to Monta. I will take a 34 y/o Gino over Monta the chucker everyday.

Ovratd1up
03-04-2012, 05:56 AM
As for "intangibles", they are immeasurable and I can't honestly say I watch enough games to objectively analyze his impact on the game. So until stats like that become available, we have to work with what we have; ergo, Noah is not a Top 10 center.

Yeah, just viewership is one of the biggest issues. I must admit that I watch nowhere near enough basketball to truly feel confident in a list that I wrote. From what I see of Noah as a Bulls fan, and the other centers in the league, I do think that Noah could be considered among the ten best in the league... but I watch him much more than I do others, which brings the issues that the Bulls defense hinders other centers, and that viewership lends itself to homerism, even if I think myself to be impartial.





As a Spurs fan I can say this is false in regards to Gino. He has been our number one guy the last couple of years and if healthy is still our best player at age 34. Gino can score as good as anyone and is definitely a more well rounded player and a great facilitator compared to Monta. I will take a 34 y/o Gino over Monta the chucker everyday.


Yeah he's a better player, but in only talking about scoring you do have to take into account how much easier Manu's team, system, coach, players, make his job, as opposed to Monta's. I still like Manu, but it's blurry and hard to compare because you drag entire settings and circumstances into the comparison.

Raph12
03-04-2012, 06:06 AM
Yeah I understand what you're saying, with Howard playing with less talent front court players he's such a freak of an athlete it's alot easier for him to recover. I'm still not sure Lopez will ever be a great rebounder trb% has always been pretty hard on him. I don't really get it he's so tall and such a good athlete I don't know if he just doesn't read the ball well while trying to get rebounds or if he's just kinda lazy on the boards.

I will say if he ever gets a full year with Deron he could end up being a top 5. Deron is so great at passing he gives guys easy looks. Boozers efficiency in Utah was helped a great deal by a guy like Deron who's much better in pick and roll then Rose. Although I'll give Rose credit he's gotten better but he's more of a pick and pop.

Agreed Dwight is very athletically gifted, he has deceptively quick hands and feet, so he covers a lot of ground; but his defensive IQ is also second to none. He's always in the right place at the right time, he knows when to attempt the block and when to let it go and he's very disciplined now (used to jump on every fake).

I agree Lopez will never be an elite rebounder or even a good/great one, but he can be respectable. I think it would be best suited if he's matched up with a defensive-minded/rebounding frontcourt mate, who could allow him to just focus on playing his man/boxing out.

Deron can make bigs look a lot better than they are, he's a great passing PG and demands a lot of attention; so he's great at creating easy looks for his bigs. I think Rose needs a big who could create for himself, Boozer has always been a good finisher, but he's not a guy who just setup on the block over and over. Rose is good at attacking and then dishing, but he's not good at trying to find his bigs in positions to score, he sort of just tries to read the situation.


Yeah, just viewership is one of the biggest issues. I must admit that I watch nowhere near enough basketball to truly feel confident in a list that I wrote. From what I see of Noah as a Bulls fan, and the other centers in the league, I do think that Noah could be considered among the ten best in the league... but I watch him much more than I do others, which brings the issues that the Bulls defense hinders other centers, and that viewership lends itself to homerism, even if I think myself to be impartial.

We all have biases, if we didn't, we wouldn't be human; but we need to try and be as objective as possible.


Yeah he's a better player, but in only talking about scoring you do have to take into account how much easier Manu's team, system, coach, players, make his job, as opposed to Monta's. I still like Manu, but it's blurry and hard to compare because you drag entire settings and circumstances into the comparison.

I think it's the system that is holding Manu back, playing limited minutes in that 6th man role has hurt his production and held him back overall. Manu with the green light is easily better than Monta has ever been IMO.

...

I need to get some sleep, post your responses and I'll talk to you guys later.

Ovratd1up
03-04-2012, 06:11 AM
Oh ****, it'd 4 a.m. over here. :sigh: I agree on Manu's potential beasthood if given free reign, but he's definitely more efficient in his present role. I'm sleeping...

Rndy
03-04-2012, 06:14 AM
I'd easily take Manu over Ellis. Ellis has been so poor efficency this year. Teams best players will always have the ball a lot. He's got a 30 usg% which is high but there are a lot of players with that because they are there best player. But his 461 efg% is pretty poor.

I would love a guy like Manu on the Bulls someone who can play without the ball and with the ball. If Rip is healthy Bulls have a guy who fits that mold. For a long term solution the Bulls really need a guy who can run the offense as a SG at times. Derrick Rose is so good moving without the ball it would do wonders to play off the ball to change things up during the games.

JOhnnyTHaJet
03-04-2012, 06:24 AM
Howard
Bynum
Horford
Lopez
Gasol
Hibbert
Bogut
Nene
Monroe
Joakim Noah

PurpleJesus
03-04-2012, 06:53 AM
right now, all there is, is Dwight #1, then a bunch of decent centers, and a bunch of PF's playing C, vying for the 2-15 spot.

Clocian
03-04-2012, 07:11 AM
Howard
Bynum
Horford
Lopez
Gasol
Hibbert
Bogut
Nene
Monroe
Joakim Noah

noah being criminally underrated

lopez? plays no defense and doesnt rebound. the kris humphries excuse is weak because noah grabs 10+ rebounds with deng, boozer, taj, and asik who are all great rebounders.

bogut? when's the last time he's played? can't stay healthy if his life depended on it.

nene and horford? they are PFs.

chandler? what does he do better than noah? noah can pass, and handle the ball on fastbreaks.

noah had a slow start but he's back to his play where he left off at the start of last year

dwight
bynum
gasol
hibbert
noah
gortat
cousins
chandler
bogut
monroe

noodle
03-04-2012, 07:36 AM
Chandler ***** on most of these guys on these lists.

jp611
03-04-2012, 07:40 AM
Chandler is overrated... He can't do anything other than dunk, he's a good defender, but Knicks fans overrate everyone

4 POINT PLAY LJ
03-04-2012, 09:58 AM
Tyson Chandler is the only person on the list that actually worked for a ring. Cause Andrew Bynum won 2 or whatever but got injured and didnt play. Tyson Chandler sh*ts on these guys. Haha

waveycrockett
03-04-2012, 10:07 AM
Pekovic has been good for about 2 weeks and suddenly he is a top-10 center??? LOLOLOL

I Rock Shaqs
03-04-2012, 10:41 AM
Why Is There No love For Al Jefferson, best post player in the game.

waveycrockett
03-04-2012, 10:58 AM
Why Is There No love For Al Jefferson, best post player in the game.

stop

FriedTofuz
03-04-2012, 11:37 AM
1 Dwight Howard
2 Marc Gasol
3 Greg Monroe
4 DeMarcus Cousins
5 Andrew Bynum
6 Tyson Chandler
7 Roy Hibbert
8 Joakim Noah
9 Andrew Bogut
10 Al Horford
11 Nene
12 Nikola Pekovic
13 Brook Lopez
14 Marcin Gortat
15 Al Jefferson

If I had to choose right now going forward , this is my list.

Really? you have greg monroe over roy hibert? Greg monroe is on a losing team and even cousins has bettter stats. Are you sure that wasnt just a homer pick on your call? you have all jefferson last, yet he has better stats then monroe. This is truely a homer pick.

FriedTofuz
03-04-2012, 11:41 AM
If I was starting a team right now. I'd take both over Bynum. Cousins/Monroe are only 21 years old and already dominant. Also, Bynum is always injured and I don't like his ghetto attitude.

I know Cousins has some issues too, but he seems more balanced playing for Keith Smart.

That is not a proper way to look at it but okay. It was just a homer pick n your part.

DR_1
03-04-2012, 11:47 AM
LOL Lopez flat out sucks, not even a top 10 center let alone a top 5.

Here are mine

1. Dwight Howard

2. Andrew Bynum

3. Tim Duncan
4. Andrew Bogut

5. Joakim Noah
6. Al Horford
7. Marc Gasol
8. Roy Hibbert
9. Nene
10. Greg Monroe

Gators123
03-04-2012, 12:05 PM
Really? you have greg monroe over roy hibert? Greg monroe is on a losing team and even cousins has bettter stats. Are you sure that wasnt just a homer pick on your call? you have all jefferson last, yet he has better stats then monroe. This is truely a homer pick.

No, not really.


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Greg Monroe 2011-12 21 38 1248 23.0 .557 .507 14.2 23.3 18.5 15.2 2.1 1.5 14.7 24.5 110 104 3.0 1.2 4.1 .159
2 Al Jefferson 2011-12 27 33 1083 22.5 .503 .476 7.8 25.0 16.3 12.1 1.4 3.6 6.2 27.0 108 103 2.2 1.2 3.4 .148
3 DeMarcus Cousins 2011-12 21 35 1029 21.4 .495 .438 16.3 26.8 21.2 6.7 2.0 3.1 13.7 28.6 101 103 1.1 1.1 2.2 .104
4 Roy Hibbert 2011-12 25 35 1044 19.7 .540 .509 12.9 22.9 17.9 10.4 0.7 4.7 15.2 22.1 106 98 1.7 1.8 3.5 .162

jp611
03-04-2012, 12:05 PM
Greg Monroe is better than Hibbert though, it doesnt matter if he's on a winning team or not, it isnt his fault he has crappy players on his team

Greg Monroe TS% .557
Roy Hibbert TS% .540

Greg Monroe TRB% 18.5
Roy Hibbert TRB% 17.9

Greg Monroe AST% 15.2
Roy Hibbert AST% 10.4

Greg Monroe TOV% 14.7
Roy Hibbert TOV% 15.2

Greg Monroe eFG% .507
Roy Hibbert eFG% .509

Greg Monroe PER - 23
Roy Hibbert PER - 19.7

Monroe is a better rebounder, passer, turns the ball over more, they are similar scorers and Monroe is more efficient with a higher TS%... Monroe is simply the better player, he really was a major snub in the all star game

waveycrockett
03-04-2012, 12:16 PM
Greg Monroe was a major allstar snub? That has to be a joke. His team is horrid and last time I checked that was a good enough reason to leave Brook Lopez out 2 years ago.

Blink
03-04-2012, 12:16 PM
Cry baby Howard
Bad knees Bynum
Beat him with a loaf of bread Gasol
Whoreford
Beat him with a loaf of bread Lopez

There are my top 5.

jp611
03-04-2012, 12:18 PM
Greg Monroe was a major allstar snub? That has to be a joke. His team is horrid and last time I checked that was a good enough reason to leave Brook Lopez out 2 years ago.

How is it his fault that his team isnt good? That has no bearing on his all star level play... He is simply better than Roy Hibbert... I don't oppose Hibbert going to the all star game because Indiana probably deserved one all star, but the stats don't lie... Monroe>Hibbert

Blink
03-04-2012, 12:19 PM
Greg Monroe was a major allstar snub? That has to be a joke. His team is horrid and last time I checked that was a good enough reason to leave Brook Lopez out 2 years ago.

Josh Smith was snub #1
An argument can be made Monroe was #2

FriedTofuz
03-04-2012, 12:30 PM
No, not really.


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Greg Monroe 2011-12 21 38 1248 23.0 .557 .507 14.2 23.3 18.5 15.2 2.1 1.5 14.7 24.5 110 104 3.0 1.2 4.1 .159
2 Al Jefferson 2011-12 27 33 1083 22.5 .503 .476 7.8 25.0 16.3 12.1 1.4 3.6 6.2 27.0 108 103 2.2 1.2 3.4 .148
3 DeMarcus Cousins 2011-12 21 35 1029 21.4 .495 .438 16.3 26.8 21.2 6.7 2.0 3.1 13.7 28.6 101 103 1.1 1.1 2.2 .104
4 Roy Hibbert 2011-12 25 35 1044 19.7 .540 .509 12.9 22.9 17.9 10.4 0.7 4.7 15.2 22.1 106 98 1.7 1.8 3.5 .162

Oh you want to bring advanced stats into this? There is no reason why monroe should be ranked as the 3rd best center. There are many centers on that list with a better advaned stats than monroe. Here is bynums.
2011-12
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bynuman01.html#advanced::none
Bynum has an overall WS of .187
Therefore, Monroe is not a 3rd best center.

Gators123
03-04-2012, 12:34 PM
Why are you bringing up Bynum? I never mentioned him...

Gram
03-04-2012, 12:41 PM
noah being criminally underrated

lopez? plays no defense and doesnt rebound. the kris humphries excuse is weak because noah grabs 10+ rebounds with deng, boozer, taj, and asik who are all great rebounders.

bogut? when's the last time he's played? can't stay healthy if his life depended on it.

nene and horford? they are PFs.

chandler? what does he do better than noah? noah can pass, and handle the ball on fastbreaks.

noah had a slow start but he's back to his play where he left off at the start of last year

dwight
bynum
gasol
hibbert
noah
gortat
cousins
chandler
bogut
monroe

Noah is rated fine. Not under rated at all.

Avenged
03-04-2012, 12:43 PM
Greg Monroe was a major allstar snub? That has to be a joke. His team is horrid and last time I checked that was a good enough reason to leave Brook Lopez out 2 years ago.

Yes but there are other reasons as well as to why Lopez didn't make the all star team simply because he isn't.

Gram
03-04-2012, 12:46 PM
Greg Monroe was a major allstar snub? That has to be a joke. His team is horrid and last time I checked that was a good enough reason to leave Brook Lopez out 2 years ago.

A big lol@you for this. :laugh2: I hate the excuse that if a team's not good that their best player shouldn't be an All Star. Monroe is better than Hibbert. It's about the player, it shouldn't be about the team he's on.

As for Lopez, tell him to play some D, and rebound the basketball.

jp611
03-04-2012, 01:08 PM
Oh you want to bring advanced stats into this? There is no reason why monroe should be ranked as the 3rd best center. There are many centers on that list with a better advaned stats than monroe. Here is bynums.
2011-12
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bynuman01.html#advanced::none
Bynum has an overall WS of .187
Therefore, Monroe is not a 3rd best center.

You said Monroe was not better than Hibbert, well he is... Not sure why Bynum was brought up in the first place, the argument was simply that Monroe is better than Hibbert, and well... He is

Cubby
03-04-2012, 01:20 PM
Overrated by posters putting him above any of these centers: Big Al, Bynum, Monroe, Cousins, MGasol, Hibbert, BLopez, Gortat, Chandler and possibly Pekovic (have to see how he plays for the rest of the season)... If you're debating only defense and rebounding, he may be higher on the list, but all of those guys are better "all-around" players.

You mention well rounded, but include Lopez above Noah? If you go by well rounded wouldn't Lopez be behind him considering literally all he can do is score? I've come to the conclusion that you just hate the guy and the Bulls in all honesty.

Blink
03-04-2012, 01:35 PM
Thing I love about Monroe is that he doesn't b**** or moan because things arnt going his way. And he doesn't get injured.
let's see:
Howard complains
Bynum complains and gets injured
Noah gets injured
Horford I like alot but he just got injured
Lopez is just coming back from an injury
Pau cries because they might trade him...boo fu***** hoo you make millions
Chandler is always getting injured
Monroes just better than Hibbert so no complaint there
Bogut always injured

The only big man I would want over Monroe is Dwight Howard and only if he is on a extended contract

sunsfan88
03-04-2012, 02:51 PM
Gortat is far better Nene, Chandler and Noah. I dont see how he's not on anyone's top 10 list.

Poolthief
03-04-2012, 02:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUPDwI72xPk
This guy is going to shoot up that chart fast. Top 3-5 in three seasons or less.

njnets825
03-04-2012, 03:13 PM
You mention well rounded, but include Lopez above Noah? If you go by well rounded wouldn't Lopez be behind him considering literally all he can do is score? I've come to the conclusion that you just hate the guy and the Bulls in all honesty.

Noah's offense is worse than Lopez's rebounding. Easier to find rebounding centers than a scoring one.

Silent
03-04-2012, 03:32 PM
Cousins is being underrated on alot of your guys list... his stats are the 3rd best out of every center in the league... and the two guys ahead of him average 5 minutes more a game...those guys being Howard and Bynum. Not to mention Cousins has dominated alot of the premier centers in the league in their matchups, the only guy i've seen give cousins fits so far was Samuel Dalembert.

The reason he's underrated cause he's a headache, If he gets his head on str8 he will be a top 3 center. I still can't believe how Noah is so dam underrated on this board

jp611
03-04-2012, 03:34 PM
Noah's offense is worse than Lopez's rebounding. Easier to find rebounding centers than a scoring one.

No it's not, Lopez's rebounding is pathetic for a 7 footer, Noah's offense isnt as bad as people want to say it is... He is a 5th option on the Bulls and isnt relied on to score, he gets a lot of tip ins and he's been making his jumper more this season... He is also awesome in transition and is one of the best passing big men in the game

PhillyFinezt
03-04-2012, 03:35 PM
If you go by points then here are the top 5:
Howard 20.5
Monroe 16.7
Bynum 16.3
Gortat 16.0
M Gasol 15.4

Rebounds:
Howard 15.0
Bynum 12.8
Gortat 10.4
Monroe 10.1
M Gasol 9.9

Cant argue that these guys aren't the top 5 by the numbers but I guess I don't watch enough Suns to see Gortat, can't imagine he's this good.

My top 5 would be Dwight (by far), Bynum, Monroe, M Gasol, Cousins (has everything to become amazing just needs to fix his ego). Then Gortat, B Lopez, Noah, Hibbert, Chandler

EDIT: Forgot Horford... ****

FriedTofuz
03-04-2012, 03:48 PM
You said Monroe was not better than Hibbert, well he is... Not sure why Bynum was brought up in the first place, the argument was simply that Monroe is better than Hibbert, and well... He is

Stop dwelling on the past. My point was that MONROE IS NOT A TOP 3 CENTER. I brought up exampls of players such as hibbery and cousins because cousins has better stats on a losing team and hibbert is an all star. Thats why I brought them up. Bynum is just another example of another player who is better than monroe and who has better stats. Thats why he was brought up. Monroe is not a top 3 center, so get over it.

FriedTofuz
03-04-2012, 03:52 PM
You said Monroe was not better than Hibbert, well he is... Not sure why Bynum was brought up in the first place, the argument was simply that Monroe is better than Hibbert, and well... He is

Whos an allstar and who leads their team to a better record?

alew510
03-04-2012, 04:02 PM
1 Dwight Howard - no explanation needed
2 Andrew Bynum - clear #2 nobody besides dwight can match his size/athleticism combo
3 Greg Monroe - averaging a double double and nowhere near ceiling yet
4 DeMarcus Cousins - great offensive game - could very well end up being #2 scoring center for years to come
5 Joakim Noah - averaging 12 and 12 last month and second best defensive center in league
6 Brook Lopez - already making prescence felt with two big games already - needs to reound and play defense better and could move up list quickly
7 Marc Gasol - great offensive player and passer (just like bro) could improve drastically on defens though
8 Roy Hibbert - having a great year needs to put on little more muscle though to compete with top centers
9 Marcin Gortat - points benefiting from playing with nash but a great defender - believe he has reached ceiling
10 Nene/Bogut/Jefferson - all very good but inconsistent

I truly believe Pekovic can move up to the 8-9 spot soon if he continues his play.

Rndy
03-04-2012, 05:29 PM
Whos an allstar and who leads their team to a better record?

An all star game is your argument? Thats a ****ing joke lol. Hibberts team is better because they have more talent not all because of Hibbert. Get real you were wrong.

It amazes me how someone can be proven wrong and still talk out of there ***.

69centers
03-04-2012, 05:45 PM
I got Cousins over Monroe. Monroe's stats are similar to Cousins, but Cousins plays less minutes, and has more rebounds.

Delusional
03-04-2012, 05:48 PM
1. Dwight Howard - Yeah.
2. Andrew Bynum - Has the best overall talent at center.
3. DeMarcus Cousins - Guy is putting up 17-12 while only playing 29 minutes per game.
4. Greg Monroe - Has a nice balance of rebounding and scoring.
5. Marcin Gortat - He's putting up very good numbers in the pick and roll offense and is a very strong defender.
6. Joakim Noah - Lacking in offense, but makes up for it on the defensive side of the ball.
7. Brook Lopez - Pretty weak defender and rebounder, but his presence is known offensively.
8. Marc Gasol - Another poor defender, but might be the best passing center in the league to go along with a nice offensive game.
9. Al Horford - When he's healthy, the Hawks have a very talented scoring center.
10. Roy Hibbert - He's overrated in my book, but he's more consistent at staying healthy or scoring than Andrew Bogut or Tyson Chandler, my other two considerations for this last spot.

jp611
03-04-2012, 05:53 PM
Whos an allstar and who leads their team to a better record?

An all star game is your argument? Thats a ****ing joke lol. Hibberts team is better because they have more talent not all because of Hibbert. Get real you were wrong.

It amazes me how someone can be proven wrong and still talk out of there ***.

:laugh2:

I know, he started arguing that he was Hibbert was better, I proved him wrong with the stats and he turns it around saying he was arguing he wasn't top 3 when I said nothing about that... Gotta love the NBA forum

Meatmypet
03-04-2012, 05:58 PM
If I had to make my own list in which i rank centers 1-10 based on who I think are the best centers in the league RIGHT NOW.

1. Dwight

2. Bynum
3. Lopez
4. Marc Gasol

5. Monroe
6. Horford
7. Cousins
8. Hibbert
9. Nene
10. Chandler

Bogut, Gortat, Pekovic and Noah are also centers who play like top 10 centers every so often.

You have Lopez ahead of Chandler and Hotford. LOL.

FriedTofuz
03-04-2012, 06:20 PM
An all star game is your argument? Thats a ****ing joke lol. Hibberts team is better because they have more talent not all because of Hibbert. Get real you were wrong.

It amazes me how someone can be proven wrong and still talk out of there ***.
It is a joke but yet not every player can do it right? if its a joke why cant everyone be in it. Its only the best of the best are named all stars even if the all star game is a joke. your logic makes no sense but okay. gotta love the nba forum . :laugh2:

:laugh2:

I know, he started arguing that he was Hibbert was better, I proved him wrong with the stats and he turns it around saying he was arguing he wasn't top 3 when I said nothing about that... Gotta love the NBA forum

you didnt prove me wrong and you fail to comprehend english. My point was that greg monroe isnt a top 3 center. I merely used examples such as hibbert who is an all star and a similar exmaple of a player who plys on a bad team but still produces statistically in demarcus cousins. Therefore, you did not proove me wrong. I already explained that it was just an example and I brought up bynum to proove my point. Gotta love the nba forum :laugh2:

M.Bibby2.0
03-04-2012, 06:20 PM
If you go by points then here are the top 5:
Howard 20.5
Monroe 16.7
Bynum 16.3
Gortat 16.0
M Gasol 15.4

Rebounds:
Howard 15.0
Bynum 12.8
Gortat 10.4
Monroe 10.1
M Gasol 9.9

Cant argue that these guys aren't the top 5 by the numbers but I guess I don't watch enough Suns to see Gortat, can't imagine he's this good.

My top 5 would be Dwight (by far), Bynum, Monroe, M Gasol, Cousins (has everything to become amazing just needs to fix his ego). Then Gortat, B Lopez, Noah, Hibbert, Chandler

EDIT: Forgot Horford... ****

You forgot Cousins. he's around 16.5 and 11.5. A lot of sites have him listed at the 4 which is silly because he's been playing the vast majority of his minutes at the 5.

jp611
03-04-2012, 06:26 PM
Really? you have greg monroe over roy hibert? Greg monroe is on a losing team and even cousins has bettter stats. Are you sure that wasnt just a homer pick on your call? you have all jefferson last, yet he has better stats then monroe. This is truely a homer pick.


Greg Monroe is better than Hibbert though, it doesnt matter if he's on a winning team or not, it isnt his fault he has crappy players on his team

Greg Monroe TS% .557
Roy Hibbert TS% .540

Greg Monroe TRB% 18.5
Roy Hibbert TRB% 17.9

Greg Monroe AST% 15.2
Roy Hibbert AST% 10.4

Greg Monroe TOV% 14.7
Roy Hibbert TOV% 15.2

Greg Monroe eFG% .507
Roy Hibbert eFG% .509

Greg Monroe PER - 23
Roy Hibbert PER - 19.7

Monroe is a better rebounder, passer, turns the ball over more, they are similar scorers and Monroe is more efficient with a higher TS%... Monroe is simply the better player, he really was a major snub in the all star game


It is a joke but yet not every player can do it right? if its a joke why cant everyone be in it. Its only the best of the best are named all stars even if the all star game is a joke. your logic makes no sense but okay. gotta love the nba forum . :laugh2:


you didnt prove me wrong and you fail to comprehend english. My point was that greg monroe isnt a top 3 center. I merely used examples such as hibbert who is an all star and a similar exmaple of a player who plys on a bad team but still produces statistically in demarcus cousins. Therefore, you did not proove me wrong. I already explained that it was just an example and I brought up bynum to proove my point. Gotta love the nba forum :laugh2:

Doesn't look like that's what happened, I proved you wrong lol

PhillyFinezt
03-04-2012, 06:41 PM
You forgot Cousins. he's around 16.5 and 11.5. A lot of sites have him listed at the 4 which is silly because he's been playing the vast majority of his minutes at the 5.

I got all that from yahoo sports and they have some guys like Iguodala only listed under Guard Forward. Not SG or SF so yeah it's easy to miss players

FriedTofuz
03-04-2012, 06:46 PM
Doesn't look like that's what happened, I proved you wrong lol

If reiterating what you keep saying makes you feel better, so be it. Whatever helps you sleep man.

jp611
03-04-2012, 06:48 PM
Doesn't look like that's what happened, I proved you wrong lol

If reiterating what you keep saying makes you feel better, so be it. Whatever helps you sleep man.

Whatever man, you got destroyed in that argument and looked foolish by backing away from it

cubbiefan_est88
03-04-2012, 06:52 PM
You guys are nuts noah is the 2nd best center in the east. He just doesnt get the glamour stat of scoring 15 a game like the others.

LA_Raiders
03-04-2012, 07:41 PM
Dwight Howard stands above them all; then Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Greg Monroe, DeMarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Brook Lopez, Marcin Gortat and Nikola Pekovic, not in any specific order...

Agree

tyfreaks brotha
03-04-2012, 07:45 PM
Howard
Bynum
Gasol
Cousins
Monroe
Lopez
Horford
Chandler
Nene
Noah

Jenceman
03-04-2012, 08:07 PM
I don't think Cousins needs to fix his ego. He needs to fix his turnovers and FG%

fadedmario
03-04-2012, 10:18 PM
Whatever man, you got destroyed in that argument and looked foolish by backing away from it

:laugh2:

smiddy012
03-04-2012, 11:13 PM
1. Dwight Howard - Yeah.
2. Andrew Bynum - Has the best overall talent at center.
3. DeMarcus Cousins - Guy is putting up 17-12 while only playing 29 minutes per game.
4. Greg Monroe - Has a nice balance of rebounding and scoring.
5. Marcin Gortat - He's putting up very good numbers in the pick and roll offense and is a very strong defender.
6. Joakim Noah - Lacking in offense, but makes up for it on the defensive side of the ball.
7. Brook Lopez - Pretty weak defender and rebounder, but his presence is known offensively.
8. Marc Gasol - Another poor defender, but might be the best passing center in the league to go along with a nice offensive game.
9. Al Horford - When he's healthy, the Hawks have a very talented scoring center.
10. Roy Hibbert - He's overrated in my book, but he's more consistent at staying healthy or scoring than Andrew Bogut or Tyson Chandler, my other two considerations for this last spot.

I like this list a lot. Especially with Cousins at #3, he has crazy talent and determination when he puts his heart into it. Not too sure if Noah's the 6th best center in the league but he's definitely top ten and definitely ahead of Lopez. Although Noah has gotten it together of late, I'm still antsy to see where his ceiling is come playoffs. I'd also prolly have Tyson in my top ten, even though all he can do is dunk, he's probably a top 3 center defensively (although I could be wrong).

FriedTofuz
03-05-2012, 01:51 AM
Whatever man, you got destroyed in that argument and looked foolish by backing away from it

that isnt getting destroyed. I soupported my argument that greg monroe is not the 3rd best center in the nba with examples to soupport my opinions(demarcus,hibbert). I counter argued my point by using another example with andrew bynum when you tried defending that monroe was better than those two players and as if he was the 3rd center overall. That isnt getting destroyed. You are being childish, you simply just want to have the satisfaction of feeling like you destroy and beat someone in an argument? how pathetic. Like I said, if you just want satisifcation to think you beat someone in an argument. Then think that, whatever raises your self esteeem and helps you feel better about yourself.

itsripcity32
03-05-2012, 01:58 AM
Monroe> Cousins
Monroe >> Hibbert

Rndy
03-05-2012, 09:33 AM
You didn't support your argument you said he was voted in the all star game which doesn't make him better. Stats showed you were wrong. How about instead of making yourself look foolish you learn something.

Rndy
03-05-2012, 09:50 AM
Greg Monroe has a higher TS% Efg% trb%a nice 15 ast% and even his per game stat are higher. But hey Hibbert made the all star game so that makes up for losing in every stat!

I disagree with JPRO about him being 3rd though Howard Bynum-Gasol Jefferson-Monroe

jp611
03-05-2012, 11:09 AM
I didn't say he was third best, I was only arguing that Monroe is better than Hibbert, which was the argument, he just won't accept the fact

CostanzaNumba0
03-05-2012, 11:42 AM
If we're talking stats tyson chandler is the third best and its not really close 6th overall is ws/48, 5th overall in w/s (both 1st overall amongst centers), 11th overall in defensive w/s, 1st in the league in true shooting %, hes having a stud season but gets hate because hes a knick

tyfreaks brotha
03-05-2012, 11:59 AM
I don't think Cousins needs to fix his ego. He needs to fix his turnovers and FG%

Only reason he has so many Turnovers and a low FG% is because almost every time he's in the paint and he misses, he'll grab his own rebound they he may lose the ball. Sometimes, I wish he would pass it out, especially be double or even triple teamed, but I'm happy with him. With how much he has grown talent wise and maturity.

ManningToTyree
03-05-2012, 12:21 PM
I cannot believe how underrated Chandler is in this thread. Some lists don't even have him. This is madness. He is leading the league in FG% while playing dominant defense and grabbing ten boards a night

Noah is also being underrated pretty bad in here.

Lopez is being overrated. How can you be a top 5 center if you don't rebound or play Defense?

Howard
Bynum
Gasol
Chandler
Hibbert
Noah
Monroe
Lopez
Cousins
Gortat?

Eagles4Lyfe
03-05-2012, 12:24 PM
when in lord debtnas name did brook lopez become better than marc gasol?? Am i missing something??

D1JM
03-05-2012, 02:17 PM
If we're talking stats tyson chandler is the third best and its not really close 6th overall is ws/48, 5th overall in w/s (both 1st overall amongst centers), 11th overall in defensive w/s, 1st in the league in true shooting %, hes having a stud season but gets hate because hes a knick

Would be kinda sad if he had an efg% of .500 when all he does is dunk.

Marco22
03-05-2012, 02:40 PM
We will see Tuesday if Monroe is better then Bynum! Also Bynum destroyed that B---h Cousins the other day! Monroe is next.

KingPosey
03-05-2012, 02:53 PM
I'll move Monroe and Cousins ahead of Lopez when they've done it for one more season. Simple as that.

I haven't watched enough of Hibbert to make an accurate assessment, so you got me there.

Joakim Noah is meh to me. I appreciate the hustle and defense, but I prefer a guy who can get me two points in the paint when I need it.

I appreciate the feedback, and would love to provide some if you venture to make your own list.

Because Brook has such a long history of success lol?

And I like Brook, Im a Standford fan.

D1JM
03-05-2012, 03:31 PM
We will see Tuesday if Monroe is better then Bynum! Also Bynum destroyed that B---h Cousins the other day! Monroe is next.

Monroe has a lot of flaws defensively. Even he admits that's an area that he should improve on, but I guess since he rebounds it somehow correlates to defense.

mike44
03-05-2012, 03:42 PM
Horford is so underrated, ive got him at number 3 after dwight and bynum. Sucks hes injured this year but the two years prior he put up 15 and 10 shooting 55% as the third option. Plays good defense, shoots ft's well and is a good passer for his position. He is also playing out of position.

CostanzaNumba0
03-05-2012, 04:02 PM
Would be kinda sad if he had an efg% of .500 when all he does is dunk.

your comment would be less ridiculous if he wasn't leading the league in that too, but he is

MonroeFAN
03-05-2012, 08:36 PM
Howard
Gasol
Bynum
Noah
Monroe/Cousins
Gortat
Hibbert
Chandler
Bogut

Sactown
03-05-2012, 08:41 PM
Cousins when playing at least 32 minutes averages 20.7 points 15.4 boards 1.1 steals 1.3 blocks 55% shooting. Suppppppp

MonroeFAN
03-05-2012, 09:44 PM
^?

impressive numbers.

ChitownSports16
03-05-2012, 11:32 PM
Howard
Gasol
Bynum
Noah
Monroe/Cousins
Gortat
Hibbert
Chandler
Bogut

This... Like this order.

JEDean89
03-06-2012, 12:12 AM
tyson is being under rated

jp611
03-06-2012, 09:09 AM
Noah **** on Hibbert last night

Marlin234
03-06-2012, 09:26 AM
Is this a serious thread? Clearly the top 4 are:

1. Dexter Pittman
2. Joel Anthony
3. Eddy curry
4. Juwon Howard








Before anyone gets crrazy with me. That's my sarcasm for how frustrated I am with the Heat center rotation.

theheatles
03-06-2012, 10:38 AM
1. Dwight
2. Bynum
3. Gasol
4. Chandler
5. Bogut
6. Nene
7. Jefferson
8. Hibbert
9. Horford
10. Noah

Lakerfan In NY
03-06-2012, 12:07 PM
You guys are rating these centers with one catalogue. A lot of these centers you list are very one dimensional like T Chandler. Very good defensive center but canít score on his own to save his life.
Top means on both ends of the floor, even though they maybe better at one end.
1. D. Howard
2. A. Bynum
3. Nene
4. B. Lopez
5. M. Gasol
6. A. Horford
7. A. Jefferson
8. R. Hibbert
9. J. Noah
10. A. Bogut/Chandler
Up & coming stars
Cousins, Monroe

Rockice_8
03-06-2012, 12:16 PM
I'm sorry but arguably the most complete offensive center in the league is Lopez and to see some people not even have him in the top ten cause he's a below average rebounder is crazy.

He actually boxes out really well and contests shots at the rim due to his sheer size and length so while not an all defensive player he does contribute on the defensive end.

Tier 1
Dwight

Tier 2
Bynum
M. Gasol

Tier 3
Lopez
Hibbert
Chandler

Tier 4
Cousins
Monroe
Jefferson
Bogut (if healthy probably a tier 3 guy)
Gortat
Nene
Noah

Horford is a PF so I left him off.

Jetsguy
03-06-2012, 12:36 PM
Wow Tyson getting so slept on right now. 4-6 range easy.

DragonJaii
03-06-2012, 12:55 PM
You guys are rating these centers with one catalogue. A lot of these centers you list are very one dimensional like T Chandler. Very good defensive center but canít score on his own to save his life.
Top means on both ends of the floor, even though they maybe better at one end.
1. D. Howard
2. A. Bynum
3. Nene
4. B. Lopez
5. M. Gasol
6. A. Horford
7. A. Jefferson
8. R. Hibbert
9. J. Noah
10. A. Bogut/Chandler
Up & coming stars
Cousins, Monroe

Brook lopez number 4? lol

Rockice_8
03-06-2012, 12:59 PM
Brook lopez number 4? lol

That's not laughable because I got him in the 4-6 range. Let me guess Noah is way better.

Dwight, Bynum, M. Gasol I got ahead of him and then guys like Hibbert, Chandler, and Lopez are in the next grouping so yeah 4-6.

DragonJaii
03-06-2012, 01:02 PM
That's not laughable because I got him in the 4-6 range. Let me guess Noah is way better.

Dwight, Bynum, M. Gasol I got ahead of him and then guys like Hibbert, Chandler, and Lopez are in the next grouping so yeah 4-6.

Yup Noah is way better.

Rockice_8
03-06-2012, 01:03 PM
Yup Noah is way better.

I knew it. :facepalm:

DragonJaii
03-06-2012, 01:08 PM
I knew it. :facepalm:

sorry

ManningToTyree
03-06-2012, 01:17 PM
You guys are rating these centers with one catalogue. A lot of these centers you list are very one dimensional like T Chandler. Very good defensive center but canít score on his own to save his life.
Top means on both ends of the floor, even though they maybe better at one end.
1. D. Howard
2. A. Bynum
3. Nene
4. B. Lopez
5. M. Gasol
6. A. Horford
7. A. Jefferson
8. R. Hibbert
9. J. Noah
10. A. Bogut/Chandler
Up & coming stars
Cousins, Monroe

LMAO since when does Brook play defense?

Chandler as the tenth best center is laughable. You say he can't score to save his life and yet he is averaging 11ppg with a ton of other scorers on the roster and is shooting 70% from the field

D1JM
03-06-2012, 01:28 PM
LMAO since when does Brook play defense?

Chandler as the tenth best center is laughable. You say he can't score to save his life and yet he is averaging 11ppg with a ton of other scorers on the roster and is shooting 70% from the field

So 7 out of 10 times Chandler doesn't miss a dunk?

uprightciti
03-06-2012, 01:28 PM
1. Howard
2. Hibbert
3. Horford
4. Bynum
5. Chandler
6. Lopez
7. Monroe
8. Cousins
9. Noah
10. Petrovic

NYsFinest
03-06-2012, 01:42 PM
So 7 out of 10 times Chandler doesn't miss a dunk?

I'd rather have my Center dunk 10 times a game and make 7, than take 20 15 foot jump shots (Lopez) and make 9.

mRc08
03-06-2012, 01:50 PM
mine

1. howard
2. bynum
3. horford
4. lopez (when healthy)
5. Marc G.
6. Hibbert
7. Noah (Has played outa his mind recently)
8. Jefferson
9. Nene
10. Greg M.

This is just my list. Some might put joakim lower, but he has a huge impact on the bulls sucess without being a top three option. IMO best defensive center in the NBA outside of howard.

Rockice_8
03-06-2012, 02:46 PM
I'd rather have my Center dunk 10 times a game and make 7, than take 20 15 foot jump shots (Lopez) and make 9.

You have no idea what you're talking about. LOL at Knicks fans saying both ends when Chandler only plays one end.

I got Chandler/Lopez ranked around the same area of 4-6 they're just outside the top 3 of Dwight, Bynum, and M. Gasol.

njnets825
03-06-2012, 02:47 PM
I'd rather have my Center dunk 10 times a game and make 7, than take 20 15 foot jump shots (Lopez) and make 9.

Throw the ball into the post and let chandler work. 70% would not be the case.

Yunqn
03-06-2012, 03:12 PM
i not even being a homer..
but theres no way horford is better that much better than noah the way you guys are making it..

using the excuse that he made the allstar twice makes zero sense because it was the same two years noah got injured and it threw him off when he was leading the votes.. he had better stats and was on a better team.. noah was leading it for both years..

and not to be a homer again but hibbert isnt having this incredible season to get there had noah not had start off sluggish because of the contract and had horford been healthy hibbert wouldnt have even been there..

my list

if all healthy

1 dwight


2 bynum (i think bynum is cleary the 2nd best and the reason theres a gap between him and the rest is because imo i go by whos closest to taking #1 )

3 bogut
4 lopez
5 gasol
6 noah
7 horford
8 cousins (moving up nxt yr into top 3-4 if he continues and lopez keeps getting hurt)
9 hibbert
10 chandler ( but its really a toss up at this pick after all the clear players that deserve to be top 10 are in.. i say chandler because of the year hes having but his spot can easily be taken)

didnt forget.
monroe gortat & nene... saying pekovic should be anywhere that high means your overrating him ..monroe is a pf..nene has been hit by injures and i wouldve had him in the list.. and gortat is growing but his play doesnt seem to be like a guy who can make a allstar team..

Yunqn
03-06-2012, 03:19 PM
LMAO since when does Brook play defense?

Chandler as the tenth best center is laughable. You say he can't score to save his life and yet he is averaging 11ppg with a ton of other scorers on the roster and is shooting 70% from the field

you do know that because of these same scorers hes being left wide open right? no big is getting better looks than chandler.. the guy deserves credit yeah but to say he is higher when you actually looking at the list doesnt make sense...

BIG worm
03-06-2012, 03:37 PM
lot of people over rating chandler. still riding that finals run i guess.

Pacerlive
03-06-2012, 03:47 PM
i not even being a homer..
but theres no way horford is better that much better than noah the way you guys are making it..

using the excuse that he made the allstar twice makes zero sense because it was the same two years noah got injured and it threw him off when he was leading the votes.. he had better stats and was on a better team.. noah was leading it for both years..

and not to be a homer again but hibbert isnt having this incredible season to get there had noah not had start off sluggish because of the contract and had horford been healthy hibbert wouldnt have even been there..

my list

if all healthy

1 dwight


2 bynum (i think bynum is cleary the 2nd best and the reason theres a gap between him and the rest is because imo i go by whos closest to taking #1 )

3 bogut
4 lopez
5 gasol
6 noah
7 horford
8 cousins (moving up nxt yr into top 3-4 if he continues and lopez keeps getting hurt)
9 hibbert
10 chandler ( but its really a toss up at this pick after all the clear players that deserve to be top 10 are in.. i say chandler because of the year hes having but his spot can easily be taken)

didnt forget.
monroe gortat & nene... saying pekovic should be anywhere that high means your overrating him ..monroe is a pf..nene has been hit by injures and i wouldve had him in the list.. and gortat is growing but his play doesnt seem to be like a guy who can make a allstar team..

I look at Noah and Chandler as close to being one and the same. I would give the edge to Noah but basically you got a two defensive players with very little offense that rebound well and block shots.

The goods
03-06-2012, 04:18 PM
If I had to make my own list in which i rank centers 1-10 based on who I think are the best centers in the league RIGHT NOW.

1. Dwight

2. Bynum
3. Lopez
4. Marc Gasol

5. Monroe
6. Horford
7. Cousins
8. Hibbert
9. Nene
10. Chandler

Bogut, Gortat, Pekovic and Noah are also centers who play like top 10 centers every so often.

Pretty much this laker fan or not howard is atleast 2 levels above everyone else but bynum is number 2 people are standing to finally see how good bynum is instead of saying laker fans are hyping him up or maybe bynum is just stepping like we knew he could.

mike44
03-06-2012, 04:48 PM
i not even being a homer..
but theres no way horford is better that much better than noah the way you guys are making it..

using the excuse that he made the allstar twice makes zero sense because it was the same two years noah got injured and it threw him off when he was leading the votes.. he had better stats and was on a better team.. noah was leading it for both years..



I would take Horford over Noah, the all-star games don't matter to me since it is a flawed system anyways, I just think he is better. Noah is the better defender and rebounder but its pretty close. Horford is a much better offensive player. The two years before this year when he got injured he has put up 15 pts on about 56% shooting close to 80% FT and close to 60 TS%. He had two consecutive 10+ WS seasons and has been the most important player on his team for about 3 years now. I like Noah for what he brings but Horford's offensive abilities outway Noah's defensive imo.

Lakerfan In NY
03-06-2012, 05:24 PM
LMAO since when does Brook play defense?

Chandler as the tenth best center is laughable. You say he can't score to save his life and yet he is averaging 11ppg with a ton of other scorers on the roster and is shooting 70% from the field

Is lopez a defensive monster. No. but he is a fair defender. As for Chandler. Have you seen Chandler shoot a jumper? Or do a post move & score. NO! Chandler needs someone to make his shots for him. Your looking at 11 pts worth of J. Lin assist, alleys & put backs. Not top ten. Sorry.

JasonJohnHorn
03-06-2012, 06:16 PM
This is a tough question, not only because of the mediocrity that exists at this position, but also because some great centers are playing at PF. Pao Gasol is by nature a center, and if he were on the Nets and not having his time with the ball take a big hit because he is on a deep team with Bynum and Bryant, then he would be posting a higher scoring average than Lopez. Kevin Love is also a center, though the T-Wolves play him at PF. I would put either of these talents ahead of Lopez.

Obviously Bynum and Howard are in over Lopez, and I would say because of his rebounding and defence, so is Chandler. In five games this season, Lopez has averaged 3.6 rebounds per. THAT IS DISGUSTING!!!! I know he's just come back from injury, but lets put last season's average up there, when he was healthy. That would be 6.0 a game. THAT IS EMBARASSING!!!!!! Does the guy even box out? Seriously? Bargnani is better than that and he's one of the softest guys in the league!

Ok, let's put his career high up, assuming he can remember how to box out. That is 8.6 (5 more than he's currently averaging). Where would that rank among the league leaders right now? 23rd in the league. Tim Duncan is having the WORST season of his career and he is still matching Lopez's best number. There are currently 14 centers, not including Love and Pao Gasol, who are averaging more rebounds than that.

Howard
Bynum
Varejao
Cousins
Gortat
Noah
Monroe
Marc Gasol
Chandler
Hibbert
Jefferson
Camby (who is 38 years old and posting a better rebounding average at 38 years of age than Lopez has ever posted).
Jordan
McGee

Those are just the are averaging more rebounds this season than Lopez's career best. If you want a list of centers that are averaging more than Lopez this season, then you will have to pay me to type out that list, because that is how long it is. It would actually be easier to type out a list of centers who are averaging less than he is.

I think, at the end of the day, that you would be hard pressed to get any of the teams who the aforementioned centers play for, to give up their center for Lopez.

So if the question is: Is Lopez a top ten center? My answer is no. When he learns to work, and box out, and jump, then he will be a top ten center. And I dont want to hear about his scoring average. Just about anybody in the league can score 20 a game if you give them as many shots as Lopez gets. And 20 points in a losing effort doesn't impres me much.

tcav701
03-06-2012, 07:32 PM
D12
Bynum
Chandler
Gasol
Lopez
Monroe
Noah
Hibbert
Varejo
Big Al

Monta is beast
03-06-2012, 08:06 PM
1. Howard
2. Bynum
3. Chandler
4. Gasol
5. Hibbert
6. Varejo
7. Noah
8. Jefferson
9. Cousins
10. Monroe
11. McGee
12. Pekovic

ManningToTyree
03-06-2012, 09:25 PM
Is lopez a defensive monster. No. but he is a fair defender. As for Chandler. Have you seen Chandler shoot a jumper? Or do a post move & score. NO! Chandler needs someone to make his shots for him. Your looking at 11 pts worth of J. Lin assist, alleys & put backs. Not top ten. Sorry.

Lopez is atrocious on Defense.

So because he is getting set up well those points don't count? 11 points is 11 points and no one is doing it more efficiently than him right now.

If you don't think he is a top 10 center I have to question if you have ever seen him play. His defense alone gets him in the top 10.

ManningToTyree
03-06-2012, 09:27 PM
So 7 out of 10 times Chandler doesn't miss a dunk?

It's better than noah's 5/10

ManningToTyree
03-06-2012, 09:31 PM
you do know that because of these same scorers hes being left wide open right? no big is getting better looks than chandler.. the guy deserves credit yeah but to say he is higher when you actually looking at the list doesnt make sense...

I think ranking him anywhere from 3-7 is reasonable. The original poster I quoted said he wasn't in the top 10 which is down right stupid.

Sactown
03-07-2012, 12:28 AM
Big Cuz

the rest