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latinofire21
03-03-2012, 11:39 AM
I am not a Lebron fan in the slightest but I am a fan of the game. Its starting to become epidemic for his game that he refuses to take the big shot. The All Star game was blown out of proportion in my opinion because that game in meaningless but the regular season to the Jazz?

I watched the highlights and he hits a circus 3 pointer right before the final play he passed up but doesn't want the ball in his hands for the final shot? How you can score 35 points hit a crazy 3 which should have built your confidence, (Although I dont think its a confidence thing with Lebron, His EGO is HUGEEE) and then pass up the final shot to Haslem?

Is he really that effected by the media roasting him for his inabilities in the 4th or is he a legitimate Robin and never wants to be a Batman? Discuss

Gritz
03-03-2012, 11:48 AM
I think it may have gotten to him a little bit that if he misses the shot he will never hear the end of it. Since he came into the league and embraced the nickname "King" then this is the kind of target you put on your back. Problem is I think he worries too much what people think, just be like Kobe and not give a **** lol

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 11:51 AM
I think it may have gotten to him a little bit that if he misses the shot he will never hear the end of it. Since he came into the league and embraced the nickname "King" then this is the kind of target you put on your back. Problem is I think he worries too much what people think, just be like Kobe and not give a **** lol

I agree but I think thats his fault. He has an entourage like this is the WWE and he does all the dancing and showboating to make fans think of him as a King. If he cant handle all the spotlight I dont think he should really try and glamor his game soo much to create that kind of hype.

I also think that he shouldnt worry what others think and he should grow a pair and start taking those shots. The game on the line I dont want Haslem taking the final shot even if he is open. If I have 35 points I am taking that final shot.

pd1dish
03-03-2012, 11:53 AM
the pass he made last night was the right play 99% of the time. however, down by 1 with the ball, Lebron needs to take the shot or at worst, give it up to D Wade.

i also think the play was poorly drawn up. it was obvious that the Jazz were going to double team Lebron, and since Haslem ran the pick and pop with Lebron, Haslem was the one who got open on the double team. let Wade get the ball on an inbounds play, then have Lebron set the pick, and if they stay with Wade, then give it to Lebron for a spot up jumper, or let Wade go to the basket if he gets it one-on-one. thats just my opinion though.

ThePooH_1_
03-03-2012, 11:56 AM
Seriously, this guy should NEVER be compared to MJ again... MJ was cold as ice he hit the game winning shot or at least took them, but Lebron?? This isn't the first time. He did it in Cleveland in the Finals and did it again in Miami again in the finals. Now he even can't take the final shot in the REGULAR SEASON and let Haslem take the winning shot.. :rolleyes:

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:00 PM
the pass he made last night was the right play 99% of the time. however, down by 1 with the ball, Lebron needs to take the shot or at worst, give it up to D Wade.

i also think the play was poorly drawn up. it was obvious that the Jazz were going to double team Lebron, and since Haslem ran the pick and pop with Lebron, Haslem was the one who got open on the double team. let Wade get the ball on an inbounds play, then have Lebron set the pick, and if they stay with Wade, then give it to Lebron for a spot up jumper, or let Wade go to the basket if he gets it one-on-one. thats just my opinion though.

I agree I didnt like that Wade was not even involved in the play but with all the calls Lebron gets a drive to the rim would have either been a score or a trip to the line. To pass off to Haslem and put the game in his hands was pretty funny in my opinion. You force up a circus 3 the play before and then pass up a drive to your backup PF?

Master Mind
03-03-2012, 12:01 PM
Here's to the many psychologist on PSD :cheers:


:eyebrow:

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:02 PM
Seriously, this guy should NEVER be compared to MJ again... MJ was cold as ice he hit the game winning shot or at least took them, but Lebron?? This isn't the first time. He did it in Cleveland in the Finals and did it again in Miami again in the finals. Now he even can't take the final shot in the REGULAR SEASON and let Haslem take the winning shot.. :rolleyes:

He lost the right to that comparison when he took his talents to South Beach. MJ would have never copped out like that.

Kashmir13579
03-03-2012, 12:04 PM
Lebron = best player in NBA.

Master Mind
03-03-2012, 12:05 PM
He lost the right to that comparison when he took his talents to South Beach. MJ would have never copped out like that.

Yada yada yada...Because Jordan isn't the consummate team player and his ego makes him that much more of a douche. Was he a great player without a doubt but Lebron's great in his own right, you can't say you've seen the likes of Lebron before Lebron and no not even Jordan...

godolphins
03-03-2012, 12:06 PM
I'm not surprise to see you start a thread after a Heat loss.

Yanks All Day
03-03-2012, 12:12 PM
It was the correct pass. Haslem was wide open for a spot up shot. I'd rather that shot than a double teamed fallaway jumper. If Haslem hits the shot, no one is questioning the decision. Last night's loss was far from LeBron's fault. D-Wade fouled a jumpshooter twice in the last 2 minutes. Inexcusable.

raiderfaninTX
03-03-2012, 12:13 PM
I was critical of the all star game shot

but this one nope

he made the right play double teamed and no look passed it to the open guy and the guy missed

how can you complain about that.

its a no win for lebron and a win win for lebron haters

if lebron would of shot and missed this same thread would of been made about how he took a stupid shot while he was double teamed and should of passed to the open man. lol

Corey
03-03-2012, 12:16 PM
Lebron found a wide open teammate for a shot that he would make 9 out of 10 times.

What a terrible player!

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:17 PM
Yada yada yada...Because Jordan isn't the consummate team player and his ego makes him that much more of a douche. Was he a great player without a doubt but Lebron's great in his own right, you can't say you've seen the likes of Lebron before Lebron and no not even Jordan...

I never really understood the comparisons between Jordan and Lebron other then the averages when they started out their careers. Lebron doesnt have the winning mentality or the clutch gene that Jordan had. Jordan also did people dirty in a time where the defense was much tougher. The only guy you can compare Jordan to is Kobe.

I think Lebron is a great number 2 option. He will never be the man again in my opinion. He defers too much in those moments that a number 1 guy needs to take over.

1-800-STFU
03-03-2012, 12:17 PM
It was a good play, Haslem is money from that range. I dont see the issue here.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 12:19 PM
I never really understood the comparisons between Jordan and Lebron other then the averages when they started out their careers. Lebron doesnt have the winning mentality or the clutch gene that Jordan had. Jordan also did people dirty in a time where the defense was much tougher. The only guy you can compare Jordan to is Kobe.

I think Lebron is a great number 2 option. He will never be the man again in my opinion. He defers too much in those moments that a number 1 guy needs to take over.

How many times are you going to repeat the same thing? You hate the guy, its obvious.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:20 PM
How many times are you going to repeat the same thing? You hate the guy, its obvious.

Why are you getting so upset over my analysis. It really shouldnt effect you either way. I wish their was a statistic for clutch gene. I would be interested to see how Lebron fairs with the real go to guys in the league.

Corey
03-03-2012, 12:22 PM
I think Lebron is a great number 2 option. He will never be the man again in my opinion. He defers too much in those moments that a number 1 guy needs to take over.

Wooooooow.

Career averages of 27/7/7

Career playoff averages of 28/8.5/7

Career WS/48 of .232 (Which is absurdly good)

Yeah, he's definitely not a number one option :rolleyes:

Baller1
03-03-2012, 12:23 PM
God the hate for Lebron is soooooo ****ing annoying.

4 POINT PLAY LJ
03-03-2012, 12:23 PM
Does it really matter? It's only the regular season. They built the big 3, to get a championship. But you cant deny the fact that LeBron James is the best player in the league.

lvlheaded
03-03-2012, 12:24 PM
LeBron is the best player in the world till the lights are shinning their brightest. He just doesn't seem to have that killer instinct like MJ or Kobe, he seems as if he doesn't wanna be the guy when the game is on the line and people will always attack him for that until he proves them wrong

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:26 PM
Wooooooow.

Career averages of 27/7/7

Career playoff averages of 28/8.5/7

Career WS/48 of .232 (Which is absurdly good)

Yeah, he's definitely not a number one option :rolleyes:

You forgot fading out in the 4th and not finishing games when it matters. Can you check your reports please thanks.

Sym_
03-03-2012, 12:26 PM
So easy to spot a bron hater...that was the right play PERIOD. His teammate had a wide open shot. This particular decision should not be be questioned at all.

Slug3
03-03-2012, 12:26 PM
Why are you getting so upset over my analysis. It really shouldnt effect you either way. I wish their was a statistic for clutch gene. I would be interested to see how Lebron fairs with the real go to guys in the league.

No, posters are getting annoyed at how you do nothing but post threads bashing lebron. Where we're you the last 3 weeks when the heat were winning?

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:26 PM
lebron is the best player in the world till the lights are shinning their brightest. He just doesn't seem to have that killer instinct like mj or kobe, he seems as if he doesn't wanna be the guy when the game is on the line and people will always attack him for that until he proves them wrong

+1

Corey
03-03-2012, 12:27 PM
You forgot fading out in the 4th and not finishing games when it matters. Can you check your reports please thanks.

Since 2000, Lebron is shooting 46% in clutch situations. (Playoffs included)

Clutch situations are defined as: the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points

Your argument: Invalid.

g'day.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:28 PM
No, posters are getting annoyed at how you do nothing but post threads bashing lebron. Where we're you the last 3 weeks when the heat were winning?

I was here. How many of those wins resulted in a game winning shot from Lebron? I am pretty sure most of those wins were double digit victories. When the game is on the line the guy falls apart. Its pretty evident. Its not bashing when its the same cycle over and over. Its something worth discussing in my opinion. The only people who dont seem to like this thread all that much are the ones who like the heat/lebron.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-03-2012, 12:28 PM
Lebron found a wide open teammate for a shot that he would make 9 out of 10 times.

What a terrible player!

Exactly. The hate for LeBron hasn't gone way too far on this site.

4 POINT PLAY LJ
03-03-2012, 12:29 PM
Does anybody remember that LeBron is the reason it was a clutch game? But the question is: would you want Lebron on your team?

GottaLoveCubs
03-03-2012, 12:30 PM
As a Bulls fan, I would be PISSED if he passed the ball to let Gibson take the last shot of the game. I don't care how wide open he was! The only time I'd not want Rose taking the last shot is if we needed a 3, or he found someone for an easy lay up/dunk. Other than that, I want him taking those shots. If he misses, so be it, but he is our best chance to win.
And I'm using Gibson because he is in comparison to haslem as they are both back up PF.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:30 PM
Since 2000, Lebron is shooting 46% in clutch situations. (Playoffs included)

Clutch situations are defined as: the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points

Your argument: Invalid.

g'day.

Does it also have a stat as to how many times he deferred in those situations instead of actually shooting. If hes 46% shooting when he takes the shot. How many shots does he pass up?

basketfan4life
03-03-2012, 12:31 PM
Lebron found a wide open teammate for a shot that he would make 9 out of 10 times.

What a terrible player!

it's true, but he was enormously hot and he took and made 8 out of 9 very very very difficult shots...At that point of the game any shot lebron would take was better than anyones wide open shot IMO.

He didn't prefer the right basketball play back to back before that shot, and he decided to do it in the last play? For the first time in my life i wanted to see lebron take that shot and hit it, then he remembered me why i don't like him all that much.

Corey
03-03-2012, 12:32 PM
Since 2000, Lebron is shooting 46% in clutch situations. (Playoffs included)

Clutch situations are defined as: the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points

Your argument: Invalid.

g'day.

I'll even take it a step further.

Since 2006, no player in the NBA has converted as many 'clutch time' baskets as Lebron James.

A step further: Since 2006, Lebron James is shooting 46.6% in 'clutch time' situations....Which is best in the league in that time span. He's also make more baskets than any player in the NBA since 2006 in clutch situations.

Best percentage, most makes.

Yep, he sucks alright.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 12:33 PM
As a Bulls fan, I would be PISSED if he passed the ball to let Gibson take the last shot of the game. I don't care how wide open he was! The only time I'd not want Rose taking the last shot is if we needed a 3, or he found someone for an easy lay up/dunk. Other than that, I want him taking those shots. If he misses, so be it, but he is our best chance to win.
And I'm using Gibson because he is in comparison to haslem as they are both back up PF.

lol, gibson hasnt made a tenth of the clutch shots haslem has in his career, horrible example.

MTL_123
03-03-2012, 12:35 PM
As a Bulls fan, I would be PISSED if he passed the ball to let Gibson take the last shot of the game. I don't care how wide open he was! The only time I'd not want Rose taking the last shot is if we needed a 3, or he found someone for an easy lay up/dunk. Other than that, I want him taking those shots. If he misses, so be it, but he is our best chance to win.
And I'm using Gibson because he is in comparison to haslem as they are both back up PF.

but the difference is that if rose took it n missed it nothing is wrong but if lebron missed it 10+threads about lebron n how **** he is n can never hit a game winning shot for ****

Master Mind
03-03-2012, 12:37 PM
Without Lebron the game wouldn't even have come down to a last second shot, in fact it shouldn't have Bron did enough to get the win--Wade blew it...

Avenged
03-03-2012, 12:37 PM
Eventually the excuses will have to stop.

He's great, and is the best player in the game but it's been too many times he's passed up on that shot. Wide open or not, great players take over down the stretch. They want the ball in their hand, they want that final shot.

Not saying what Lebron is doing is wrong but passing the ball in the final seconds hasn't really been working and since he's their best player, the team would be better off with him taking that final shot especially when he's so damn efficient.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:38 PM
As a Bulls fan, I would be PISSED if he passed the ball to let Gibson take the last shot of the game. I don't care how wide open he was! The only time I'd not want Rose taking the last shot is if we needed a 3, or he found someone for an easy lay up/dunk. Other than that, I want him taking those shots. If he misses, so be it, but he is our best chance to win.
And I'm using Gibson because he is in comparison to haslem as they are both back up PF.

The guy you pay the big bucks too needs to be taking that shot. The play needs to be made for that player. I guess it could be an identity crisis in Miami since they structured their deals to almost being identical. They arent really sure who needs the ball in their hands for those final moments. A championship team needs to learn how to win close games. I also guarantee you that if Wade had the ball in his hands for that final shot he would have drived and at least got to the line if he missed.

Corey
03-03-2012, 12:40 PM
Eventually the excuses will have to stop.

He's great, and is the best player in the game but it's been too many times he's passed up on that shot. Wide open or not, great players take over down the stretch. They want the ball in their hand, they want that final shot.

Not saying what Lebron is doing is wrong but passing the ball in the final seconds hasn't really been working and since he's their best player, the team would be better off with him taking that final shot especially when he's so damn efficient.
Since 2000, Lebron is shooting 46% in clutch situations. (Playoffs included)

Clutch situations are defined as: the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points.


Since 2006, no player in the NBA has converted as many 'clutch time' baskets as Lebron James.

A step further: Since 2006, Lebron James is shooting 46.6% in 'clutch time' situations....Which is best in the league in that time span. He's also make more baskets than any player in the NBA since 2006 in clutch situations.

Best percentage, most makes.

He shot better percentages than Kobe, with more makes in both time spans.

What excuses, exactly?

He found a wide open team mate in his sweet spot, and Haslem makes that shot FAR more often than not.

marj987
03-03-2012, 12:40 PM
I just watched the highlights in nba.com and as soon he gave it Haskem I really just laughed my freaking *** off. And Haslem didnt even shoot the it yet.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:41 PM
lol, gibson hasnt made a tenth of the clutch shots haslem has in his career, horrible example.

I dont think you can really make that type of comparison. Haslem isnt a clutch player. He proved that last night.

Master Mind
03-03-2012, 12:41 PM
I never really understood the comparisons between Jordan and Lebron other then the averages when they started out their careers. Lebron doesnt have the winning mentality or the clutch gene that Jordan had. Jordan also did people dirty in a time where the defense was much tougher. The only guy you can compare Jordan to is Kobe.

I think Lebron is a great number 2 option. He will never be the man again in my opinion. He defers too much in those moments that a number 1 guy needs to take over.

:laugh2: @ the notion of Lebron being a number 2 option. You think teams are saying "yeah let's throw the kitchen sink at the #2 option and let the #1 option beat us"...Lebron's #1, period.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 12:43 PM
Since 2000, Lebron is shooting 46% in clutch situations. (Playoffs included)

Clutch situations are defined as: the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points.


Since 2006, no player in the NBA has converted as many 'clutch time' baskets as Lebron James.

A step further: Since 2006, Lebron James is shooting 46.6% in 'clutch time' situations....Which is best in the league in that time span. He's also make more baskets than any player in the NBA since 2006 in clutch situations.

Best percentage, most makes.

He shot better percentages than Kobe, with more makes in both time spans.

What excuses, exactly?

He found a wide open team mate in his sweet spot, and Haslem makes that shot FAR more often than not.

Dont bother, haters aren't going to acknowledge that. They want to compare him to MJ, let them, its stupid. He doesnt want to be mj, he doesnt try to be mj, he makes the right plays all the time, gets criticized no matter what he does.

Im just going to laugh my *** off after they win the championship.

ChitownSports16
03-03-2012, 12:44 PM
but the difference is that if rose took it n missed it nothing is wrong but if lebron missed it 10+threads about lebron n how **** he is n can never hit a game winning shot for ****

And that's because hes suppose to be the best NBA player... Your comparing 2 types of different super stars my man... More then half this world (including me) dislikes bron bron and love to see him fail once again. And again he brought it all to himself! Well maybe a few heat fans helped as well but it was all him.

DerekRE_3
03-03-2012, 12:45 PM
This is stupid. He made the right basketball play. The double came, if he had kept driving left he wouldn't have gotten a high percentage shot and didn't have time to drive all the way to the rim. I don't like LeBron, but that pass was the right play.

And the whole "he doesn't have the guts to shoot the last shot" is such ********. I'd argue it takes more balls to do what he did seeing that everyone gives him so much **** for it when he doesn't.

I've seen Kobe Bryant take so many forced, bad shots at the end of games. Maybe that's why he shoots like 29% on them. But hey, at least he has the "guts" to make those bad offensive plays in the clutch.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 12:45 PM
I dont think you can really make that type of comparison. Haslem isnt a clutch player. He proved that last night.

So you base performance on one shot? Your lack of basketball knowledge is overwhelming in this thread. The knicks will never beat the heat then.

Keep digging the hole.

GottaLoveCubs
03-03-2012, 12:45 PM
There's an article about this on the front page of PSD! So this guy made the thread about it to discuss it. Sure it probably felt a little good to him because he probably doesn't care for Lebron that much, but still why not discuss it.
And there were posts about the heat winning. Remember that one in here: Can anyone beat the heat? And it was talking about how no one is going to come close to them come playoff time. They are going to destroy every team.
And to the guy who said that gibson and haslem don't compare, I wasn't talking about past basketball. Haslem has been in the league for 15 years, of course he has more big shots than Taj. But this year, they are both back up PF. So this year, they are probably pretty equal to compare them to each other.

ChitownSports16
03-03-2012, 12:46 PM
Let me put it this way... If MJ played now and was doing the same **** LBJ did/does fans be all over him as well.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:46 PM
I'll even take it a step further.

Since 2006, no player in the NBA has converted as many 'clutch time' baskets as Lebron James.

A step further: Since 2006, Lebron James is shooting 46.6% in 'clutch time' situations....Which is best in the league in that time span. He's also make more baskets than any player in the NBA since 2006 in clutch situations.

Best percentage, most makes.

Yep, he sucks alright.

He was forced to be the man in Cleveland. What are his stats since joining Miami? You keep quoting statistics that are relatiely old since the whole dynamic has changed for Lebron James. He doesnt have Boobie and Varejao anymore.

mdm692
03-03-2012, 12:47 PM
Without Lebron the game wouldn't even have come down to a last second shot, in fact it shouldn't have Bron did enough to get the win--Wade blew it...

exactly though lebron takes it upon himself to put a team on his back then he decides to pass up on the game winner. Stat and numbers aside you need your superstar to man up when the game is on the line it doesnt matter he is 1-9 on game tying/winning shots since coming to MIA

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:48 PM
There's an article about this on the front page of PSD! So this guy made the thread about it to discuss it. Sure it probably felt a little good to him because he probably doesn't care for Lebron that much, but still why not discuss it.
And there were posts about the heat winning. Remember that one in here: Can anyone beat the heat? And it was talking about how no one is going to come close to them come playoff time. They are going to destroy every team.
And to the guy who said that gibson and haslem don't compare, I wasn't talking about past basketball. Haslem has been in the league for 15 years, of course he has more big shots than Taj. But this year, they are both back up PF. So this year, they are probably pretty equal to compare them to each other.

+1 - Unless the thread is about the Heat being a lock to the ECF, your not supposed to talk about them at all.

CubZwin38
03-03-2012, 12:51 PM
Yada yada yada...Because Jordan isn't the consummate team player and his ego makes him that much more of a douche. Was he a great player without a doubt but Lebron's great in his own right, you can't say you've seen the likes of Lebron before Lebron and no not even Jordan...

Invalid argument. Magic said the same thing. He wouldn't go play with other greats. Does that mean Magic was a douche and not a team player?

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:51 PM
So you base performance on one shot? Your lack of basketball knowledge is overwhelming in this thread. The knicks will never beat the heat then.

Keep digging the hole.

Your quite defensive its pretty halarious. Haslem has been in the league how many more years then Gibson. The poster was correct when comparing the two. Haslem isnt regarded around the league as the most clutch back up power forward in NBA history. He proved it last night. Hes a streaky shooter at best from foul line extended. The game isnt put into his hands on a regular basis for you to just throw out that Haslem is soo overwhelmingly clutch he shouldnt be mentioned in the same breath as Gibson lol.

Cfrey
03-03-2012, 12:53 PM
who remembers dwade missing the free throw??

who remembers dwade fouling harris to go down by 1??

without lebron the heat dont even have a shot at winning that game last night.. its getting ridiculous... where is all the heat on wade ? (no pun intended)

CubZwin38
03-03-2012, 12:53 PM
I just can't believe that the whole conversation last night and today is basically about the play when it should really be about what Lebron said after the game. The guy doesn't need a PR guy. He doesn't need an entourage. He needs professional counseling.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:54 PM
:laugh2: @ the notion of Lebron being a number 2 option. You think teams are saying "yeah let's throw the kitchen sink at the #2 option and let the #1 option beat us"...Lebron's #1, period.

He hasnt taken the role of the number 1 player. He defers in the biggest moments. Clearly he feels more comfortable playing Robin instead of Batman.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 12:55 PM
I just can't believe that the whole conversation last night and today is basically about the play when it should really be about what Lebron said after the game. The guy doesn't need a PR guy. He doesn't need an entourage. He needs professional counseling.

What did he say after the game I missed that.

godolphins
03-03-2012, 12:56 PM
As a Bulls fan, I would be PISSED if he passed the ball to let Gibson take the last shot of the game. I don't care how wide open he was! The only time I'd not want Rose taking the last shot is if we needed a 3, or he found someone for an easy lay up/dunk. Other than that, I want him taking those shots. If he misses, so be it, but he is our best chance to win.
And I'm using Gibson because he is in comparison to haslem as they are both back up PF.

Haslem's game winning/game tying shots:

This looks very similar. He had someone all over him and still managed to make that jumper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eraQmLe99zo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZWKjezEDIs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMOnbSB-mM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5zxOR0HcY4&feature=related

Avenged
03-03-2012, 12:58 PM
Since 2000, Lebron is shooting 46% in clutch situations. (Playoffs included)

Clutch situations are defined as: the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points.


Since 2006, no player in the NBA has converted as many 'clutch time' baskets as Lebron James.

A step further: Since 2006, Lebron James is shooting 46.6% in 'clutch time' situations....Which is best in the league in that time span. He's also make more baskets than any player in the NBA since 2006 in clutch situations.

Best percentage, most makes.

He shot better percentages than Kobe, with more makes in both time spans.

What excuses, exactly?

He found a wide open team mate in his sweet spot, and Haslem makes that shot FAR more often than not.

I'm not talking 5 mins left into the game.

I'm talking final seconds.

He's great, what you just posted only proves that he should be the one taking that final shot.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:00 PM
Jeremy Lin has bigger cojones then LeBron ... and, like, triple the size.

But more importantly, anyone who wants to know how to beat the Heat ,,,, offensive rebounding with your guards.

Stops their break, puts them in a half court set.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-03-2012, 01:01 PM
Wow, Skip's even defending LeBron...

Skip Bayless ‏ @RealSkipBayless Reply Retweet Favorite Open
So LeBron made safe, defensible basketball play: Nice bounce pass to Haslem for open 18-fter. Miss. WHERE WAS DWADE? Ran to corner. DECOY!

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:01 PM
When Michael Jordan would pass up the game winning shot he would make sure to give it to a wide open dead-eye shooter. Not Udonis Haslem.

DerekRE_3
03-03-2012, 01:01 PM
I'm not talking 5 mins left into the game.

I'm talking final seconds.

He's great, what you just posted only proves that he should be the one taking that final shot.

He should make the right play, which isn't always taking the final shot.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 01:02 PM
Jeremy Lin has bigger cojones then LeBron ... and, like, triple the size.

But more importantly, anyone who wants to know how to beat the Heat ,,,, offensive rebounding with your guards.

Stops their break, puts them in a half court set.

Good thing heat are #1 team in half court offense:cool:

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:02 PM
Haslem's game winning/game tying shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZWKjezEDIs
This looks very similar. He had someone all over him but still managed to make that jumper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eraQmLe99zo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMOnbSB-mM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5zxOR0HcY4&feature=related


LOL you brought youtube clips to prove Haslem is Clutch lol. You found 4 examples in 566 career games. Hes been clutch in .0070601 of his professional career. As clutch as they come.

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:03 PM
LOL you brought youtube clips to prove Haslem is Clutch lol. You found 4 examples in 566 career games. Hes been clutch in .0070601 of his professional career. As clutch as they come.

:eyebrow:

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:04 PM
Yada yada yada...Because Jordan isn't the consummate team player and his ego makes him that much more of a douche. Was he a great player without a doubt but Lebron's great in his own right, you can't say you've seen the likes of Lebron before Lebron and no not even Jordan...

On LeBron best day he is 7 inches and 2 pounds smaller then Jordan.

Please, the comparisons need stop. LeBron is more Magic then Jordan and that is OK. Jordan, to me is, GOAT. Only guys to even enter this discussion are Russell, Wilt, Kareem.

Only reason Magic did not score more is he played with a few HOF guys and a wonderful supporting cast. But when Magic wanted to dominate (like Bird) he could from any place on the court (unlike LeBron).

Avenged
03-03-2012, 01:04 PM
He should make the right play, which isn't always taking the final shot.

I don't know I just prefer my star players to take the shot when passing the ball for the final shot isn't working.

I'd much rather lose with our best player getting that shot up (higher chance it goes in) than a role player.

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:05 PM
I'm not talking 5 mins left into the game.

I'm talking final seconds.

He's great, what you just posted only proves that he should be the one taking that final shot.

Bull.

He's great, so that means he should take a contested jump shot, rather than hitting a wide open teammate?

I absolutely disagree.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:06 PM
Good thing heat are #1 team in half court offense:cool:

Huh? You are delusional.

Without the break, Heat don't get 90 points a game.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 01:08 PM
Huh? You are delusional.

Without the break, Heat don't get 90 points a game.

dont be mad at the facts, Heat are #1 in half court offense(synergy sports)

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:08 PM
And guys, LeBron is great. Not doubt. Not arguing that but not even top ten all time IMHO.

raiderfaninTX
03-03-2012, 01:08 PM
This is really weird, I keep seeing that the comparisons to jordan need to stop with lebron

LOL

The only people comparing lebron to jordan are the people saying the comparisons need to stop.

That is some crazy **** its like they are talking to themselves

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:09 PM
Huh? You are delusional.

Without the break, Heat don't get 90 points a game.

Dont respond to him. Hes just trying to derail the thread. This isnt about half court offenses. This thread is about Lebron not being Clutch at all since joining the Heat.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:09 PM
dont be mad at the facts, Heat are # in half court offense(synergy sports)

How is a statement a fact? Much like Dynasty 7/2010?

Sorry but if your half court where anywhere as good as you claim, 4-2, DALLAS WINS would never have happened.

Avenged
03-03-2012, 01:10 PM
Bull.

He's great, so that means he should take a contested jump shot, rather than hitting a wide open teammate?

I absolutely disagree.

This guy is contested throughout the whole game, he sees double and triple teams all the time and still manages to put up 27ppg. He does all that at a very high, efficient rate. Being contested is nothing new when he easily scores at will.

But in the final seconds all of that gets thrown out the window and suddenly he has to pass because he's contested? Doesn't seem right to me when he proves game in and game out he can handle any type of defense.

DerekRE_3
03-03-2012, 01:11 PM
I don't know I just prefer my star players to take the shot when passing the ball for the final shot isn't working.

I'd much rather lose with our best player getting that shot up (higher chance it goes in) than a role player.

Like Corey just said, I'll take an open Haslem mid range jumper (a shot he's made a lot in his career) over a contested fadeaway every time. Haslem has made 39% of his 16-23 foot field goals this season (48% last year,45% the two years before that). Not a great percentage, but I'd be willing to bet a contested off balance jumper has a lower chance of going in.

Star players like LeBron James should absolutely have the ball in their hands at the end of games. That doesn't mean they always have to shoot, especially if the shot is not there.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:11 PM
How is a statement a fact? Much like Dynasty 7/2010?

Sorry but if your half court where anywhere as good as you claim, 4-2, DALLAS WINS would never have happened.

I think the Dallas series was more of the Heat unable to close out games and no clutch play from Lebron James in the 4th. Another great example of fizzling when the lights are brightest.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:12 PM
This guy is contested throughout the whole game, he sees double and triple teams all the time and still manages to put up 27ppg. He does all that at a very high, efficient rate. Being contested is nothing new when he easily scores at will.

But in the final seconds all of that gets thrown out the window and suddenly he has to pass because he's contested? Doesn't seem right to me when he proves game in and game out he can handle any type of defense.

^^^ Bingo.

godolphins
03-03-2012, 01:12 PM
LOL you brought youtube clips to prove Haslem is Clutch lol. You found 4 examples in 566 career games. Hes been clutch in .0070601 of his professional career. As clutch as they come.
Passing the ball to a wide open Haslem was the right thing to do.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 01:12 PM
Passing the ball to a wide open Haslem was the right thing to do.

Dont bother with him, he's a self proclaimed heat and lebron hater

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 01:13 PM
How is a statement a fact? Much like Dynasty 7/2010?

Sorry but if your half court where anywhere as good as you claim, 4-2, DALLAS WINS would never have happened.

:facepalm:this just shows how little you know. miamis offenseive system is completely different than last year, nice try tho:facepalm:

Longhornfan1234
03-03-2012, 01:13 PM
Lebron's fault that Wade fouled Harris on that 3 point attempt. Lebron's fault that Wade fouled Harris on that floater. Lebron's fault that he passed to a wide open Haslem when he was doubled. A shot which is within Haslem's range. Definitely all Lebron's fault...

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:14 PM
Like Corey just said, I'll take an open Haslem mid range jumper (a shot he's made a lot in his career) over a contested fadeaway every time. Haslem has made 39% of his 16-23 foot field goals this season (48% last year,45% the two years before that). Not a great percentage, but I'd be willing to bet a contested off balance jumper has a lower chance of going in.

Star players like LeBron James should absolutely have the ball in their hands at the end of games. That doesn't mean they always have to shoot, especially if the shot is not there.

I dont understand why everyone assumes it is going to be a ridiculous contested fadaway. They were down 1. Kobe makes those shots so please lets not compare Kobe to Lebron. Lebrons play is a play he has done a lot of times in his career when he was the MAN on the Cavs. Anyone remember the series verse the wizards in the playoffs? A drive to the rim and finish at the hole. I would take that over defering to a bench player. Ever since Lebron has joined the Heat he has played great for long stretches of the game but when the game is on the line he whithers. Its a shame really.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:14 PM
I think the Dallas series was more of the Heat unable to close out games and no clutch play from Lebron James in the 4th. Another great example of fizzling when the lights are brightest.

Dallas had a great half court offense with multiple options and one "MAN."

I don't get LeBron frankly. The guy hit fadeaway 3's from 25 feet and does so in bunches but he can't get himself a slightly better shot down by 1 with 5 seconds?

Don't buy it.

Kucka
03-03-2012, 01:15 PM
I could imagine the reaction if he didnt pass and missed the shot cause he had no lane to the basket. Haslem was wide open at the free throw line, seemed like good court vision to me.

If he passed it to Wade or if Bosh was playing no one would probably care.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 01:15 PM
Lebron's fault that Wade fouled Harris on that 3 point attempt. Lebron's fault that Wade fouled Harris on that floater. Lebron's fault that he passed to a wide open Haslem when he was doubled. A shot which is within Haslem's range. Definitely all Lebron's fault...

dont bother, even tho you hate wade, you making good points here, but others refuse to acknowledge them.

Becks2307
03-03-2012, 01:16 PM
This guy is contested throughout the whole game, he sees double and triple teams all the time and still manages to put up 27ppg. He does all that at a very high, efficient rate. Being contested is nothing new when he easily scores at will.

But in the final seconds all of that gets thrown out the window and suddenly he has to pass because he's contested? Doesn't seem right to me when he proves game in and game out he can handle any type of defense.

Exactly.

Look if Lebron was always about making the right basketball play then cool. But here he is going absolutely bananas on the Jazz hitting shots left and right and crazy off balance jumpers...then he passes?

I Would MUCH rather my superstar take a contested shot than pass the ball up

Here is a good example, and before you people start bashing this has nothing to do with Melo but look at this game tying shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzh6r3tln7A

Thats what i want to see my superstar do, esp if he has been doing it for a whole minute before without fail.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:19 PM
Passing the ball to a wide open Haslem was the right thing to do.

I dont put the game in anyones hands but my own in that type of situation. Haslem hasnt proven that hes a clutch player. The examples you gave me are over 3 years old and 2 of them happened in 2007. My problem with the game last night was regardless of what happened to make it the 1 point game he still had a chance to win it. He hit all these tough circus shots before the final seconds and chose to defer instead of win the game.

Spo made a terrible play out of the timeout not including wade in it. Spo made a terrible play call not setting up for something at the rim. Lebron is bigger and stronger then everyone he plays at his position the smart play is to drive to the hoop and instead he defers to a bench warmer. No balls whatsoever.

tredigs
03-03-2012, 01:19 PM
This guy is contested throughout the whole game, he sees double and triple teams all the time and still manages to put up 27ppg. He does all that at a very high, efficient rate. Being contested is nothing new when he easily scores at will.

But in the final seconds all of that gets thrown out the window and suddenly he has to pass because he's contested? Doesn't seem right to me when he proves game in and game out he can handle any type of defense.

He also averages 7 assists per game. Like a point guard. And he gets many of those assists when defenses try to cheat and begin to collapse on him, just like what was happening on that play.

For better or worse, Lebron just takes what the defense throws at him and plays the final play similar to any other; trying to find the best shot for the team. He doesn't have the mentality where "this shot is MINE!" like some other superstars in the league, and if that ends up in a pass and the teammate misses, then there you have it. He'll take the blame apparently.

And I know short term memory is King, but let's not pretend that Lebron has not taken countless game tying/winning shots though people.

Older video here, and not even close to all of them, but here's some to refresh people's memories a bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk

Still rather see him take that shot last night just being a selfish fan and wanting to have him cap off a RIDICULOUS 4th quarter comeback (that Wade unfortunately ruined), but obviously he doesn't care what you or I or anybody else wants to see. And really why should he.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:20 PM
:facepalm:this just shows how little you know. miamis offenseive system is completely different than last year, nice try tho:facepalm:

Emoticons do nothing to prove your point.

Heat offense is predicated on forcing teams to last second shots, rebound and getting out on the break. When other teams sink their shots, Miami does not win game.

In fact, if I am a coach to beat Miami I do the following :

1) Send your Guards to O Rebound and if not trap and attack the rebounder.
2) Get your Wings and Center back to defend the break. Foul, foul hard and rely on the bench.
3) Take your shots early on the shot clock. Miami D get "stiffer" under the 10 second mark. They do this on purpose and it makes sense. If you push the ball up, and take the first OK look and speed up the game Miami's D will struggle.

Miami relies on team's slowing down the game to drive the half court D which is great and then running off long misses. Miami wants to play fast break and get you into half court Offense.

To beat Miami.

You need to reverse it, speed up your Offense and try to slow down theirs.

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:21 PM
More fun facts:

In the playoffs since 2000, Lebron is 5-12 (41%) in clutch shots in the final 24 seconds of the game.

In the same situations, Kobe is 6-21 (28.6%) and Wade is 2-5 (40%)

Since 2000, in the final MINUTE of playoff games, Lebron is 10-20 (50%) in clutch situations. Wade is 3-10 (30%) and Kobe is 10-31 (31%) in the same situation.

Since 2000, overall in the playoffs, Lebron is 70-154 (45.5%) in clutch situations.

Wade is 39-102 (38.2%) and Kobe is 81-203 (39.9%) in the same scenario.

Lebron wins.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:22 PM
Just one game ... even if Wade risky D strategies cost them the game.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:23 PM
blah blah blah .... Lebron wins.

Actually he doesn't -- 0-2 in the Finals. Folding the cards twice in the playoffs versus the Celtics.

JasonJohnHorn
03-03-2012, 01:25 PM
I am not a LBJ fan at all (though I respect his talent and work ethic), but even I think this is getting blown out or proportion. He moved the ball to the open player. That is what you are supposed to do. I dont see a problem. Jordan passed to Paxon. Jordan passed to Kerr. Kobe passed to Fisher. Basketball is a team sport and you are supposed to make the extra pass to the open man. Yes, he could have forced the issue and try to draw the foul, but there was an open man. I dont see what the bfd is here?

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 01:25 PM
More fun facts:

In the playoffs since 2000, Lebron is 5-12 (41%) in clutch shots in the final 24 seconds of the game.

In the same situations, Kobe is 6-21 (28.6%) and Wade is 2-5 (40%)

Since 2000, in the final MINUTE of playoff games, Lebron is 10-20 (50%) in clutch situations. Wade is 3-10 (30%) and Kobe is 10-31 (31%) in the same situation.

Since 2000, overall in the playoffs, Lebron is 70-154 (45.5%) in clutch situations.

Wade is 39-102 (38.2%) and Kobe is 81-203 (39.9%) in the same scenario.

Lebron wins.
great stuff:clap:

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:26 PM
Actually he doesn't -- 0-2 in the Finals. Folding the cards twice in the playoffs versus the Celtics.

Lets completely ignore his 28-8-7 playoff averages :rolleyes:

tredigs
03-03-2012, 01:26 PM
More fun facts:

In the playoffs since 2000, Lebron is 5-12 (41%) in clutch shots in the final 24 seconds of the game.

In the same situations, Kobe is 6-12 (28.6%) and Wade is 2-5 (40%)

Since 2000, in the final MINUTE of playoff games, Lebron is 10-20 (50%) in clutch situations. Wade is 3-10 (30%) and Kobe is 10-31 (31%) in the same situation.

Since 2000, overall in the playoffs, Lebron is 70-154 (45.5%) in clutch situations.

Wade is 39-102 (38.2%) and Kobe is 81-203 (39.9%) in the same scenario.

Lebron wins.

Gotta link to that Corey? I'm always looking for updated versions of these stats and the ones I have on tap aren't current. Also Kobe's FG/FGA's and %'s aren't jiving right there.

Becks2307
03-03-2012, 01:27 PM
More fun facts:

In the playoffs since 2000, Lebron is 5-12 (41%) in clutch shots in the final 24 seconds of the game.

In the same situations, Kobe is 6-12 (28.6%) and Wade is 2-5 (40%)

Since 2000, in the final MINUTE of playoff games, Lebron is 10-20 (50%) in clutch situations. Wade is 3-10 (30%) and Kobe is 10-31 (31%) in the same situation.

Since 2000, overall in the playoffs, Lebron is 70-154 (45.5%) in clutch situations.

Wade is 39-102 (38.2%) and Kobe is 81-203 (39.9%) in the same scenario.

Lebron wins.


So i have to ask because you seem very adamant,

lebron is a great clutch player to you?
Then why all the media scrutiny?
are we all wrong in wanting more from lebron in the clutch?
If as you claim these stats are so relevant, why do people criticize him so much, is it blind hate?

Do you truly believe he is more clutch than kobe as you seem to be insinuating?

DerekRE_3
03-03-2012, 01:29 PM
So i have to ask because you seem very adamant,

lebron is a great clutch player to you?
Then why all the media scrutiny?
are we all wrong in wanting more from lebron in the clutch?
If as you claim these stats are so relevant, why do people criticize him so much, is it blind hate?

Do you truly believe he is more clutch than kobe as you seem to be insinuating?

You really have to ask that question? Because talking about LeBron James gets ratings and sells advertising. That's why.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:30 PM
More fun facts:

In the playoffs since 2000, Lebron is 5-12 (41%) in clutch shots in the final 24 seconds of the game.

In the same situations, Kobe is 6-12 (28.6%) and Wade is 2-5 (40%)

Since 2000, in the final MINUTE of playoff games, Lebron is 10-20 (50%) in clutch situations. Wade is 3-10 (30%) and Kobe is 10-31 (31%) in the same situation.

Since 2000, overall in the playoffs, Lebron is 70-154 (45.5%) in clutch situations.

Wade is 39-102 (38.2%) and Kobe is 81-203 (39.9%) in the same scenario.

Lebron wins.

First stat sounds wrong. Second bolded I am ok with. They try to win the games for their teams they dont defer. Again your pulling stats out that are irrelevant to Lebron because hes on A NEW TEAM. He has changed his style since joining this NEW TEAM. In Cleveland his shooting guard was Mo williams and Boobie Gibson not Dewayne Wade. His power forward was Varejao not Bosh. Since joining forces with superstars he has shy away from being clutch. He lost his killer mentality and he fizzles when the lights are the brightest. Hes been eating crow since his championship proclamations and clearly it looks like the media has worn him out to the point hes afraid to make a mistake. He isn't the same Lebron from the Cavs.

Now I know your going to pull out his stats saying this is his best statistical year of his career yada yada yada. I would hope his numbers get better playing with Wade and Bosh. Teams cant focus on him as much with all that fire power on the floor.

I am unsure if the statistic is true or not but if he is really 1-9 in clutch situations while with Miami thats a more telling fact then all these statistics dating back to his days in Cleveland.

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:31 PM
So i have to ask because you seem very adamant,

lebron is a great clutch player to you?
Then why all the media scrutiny?
are we all wrong in wanting more from lebron in the clutch?
If as you claim these stats are so relevant, why do people criticize him so much, is it blind hate?

Do you truly believe he is more clutch than kobe as you seem to be insinuating?

Im not insinuating anything, the stats I just posted show pretty much everything in terms of success in late game situations in the playoffs.

Neither Lebron or Kobe are great pure shooters, but both are great scorers. Since he has been in the league, Lebron has posted better averages in clutch playoff situations.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:31 PM
Lets completely ignore his 28-8-7 playoff averages :rolleyes:

I remember Magic Johnson winning 2 rings and 2 finals MVP being questioned for finals losses in 1983/84 and his not playing "as well" as he did in 1980 and 1982.

So, LeBron and his Fannie boys can wipe their bung hole with those stats. As meaningless as they come for a HOF type player.

Putting down point is expected for a guy like LeBron but winning when it counts matters more.

DerekRE_3
03-03-2012, 01:31 PM
I dont understand why everyone assumes it is going to be a ridiculous contested fadaway. They were down 1. Kobe makes those shots so please lets not compare Kobe to Lebron. Lebrons play is a play he has done a lot of times in his career when he was the MAN on the Cavs. Anyone remember the series verse the wizards in the playoffs? A drive to the rim and finish at the hole. I would take that over defering to a bench player. Ever since Lebron has joined the Heat he has played great for long stretches of the game but when the game is on the line he whithers. Its a shame really.

Kobe shoots like 29% on potential game winning shots. Hmm...maybe a big part of that is since he insists on being the last guy to take the shot...he shoots low percentage shots. Maybe, oh I dunno, contested fallaway jumpers?

Supa
03-03-2012, 01:31 PM
Since 2000, Lebron is shooting 46% in clutch situations. (Playoffs included)

Clutch situations are defined as: the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points

Most people define clutch shot as the last shot taken with score tie or behind; it's the shot that can determine winning or losing.

Lebron clearly doesn't have problem with the last 5 min of the game, it's the last shot he is having problem with (or problem facing).

As someone would say, if you don't try, you can't fail, right?

Questions are, what is his percentage for the last shot? And how many has he passed up?

---

DerekRE_3
03-03-2012, 01:32 PM
People are also confusing being clutch with just being able to shoot and make a final shot. Being clutch can be making the right play at a pivotal moment in the game. It's sad that this is being described as "passing up" a chance to win the game. I guess that makes sense, the NBA is a "me me me" league.

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:32 PM
First stat sounds wrong.

That's because it was a typo.

6-21, not 6-12.

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:34 PM
Most people define clutch shot as the last shot taken with score tie or behind; it's the shot that can determine winning or losing.

Lebron clearly doesn't have problem with the last 5 min of the game, it's the last shot he is having problem with (or problem facing).

As someone would say, if you don't try, you can't fail, right?

Questions are, what is his percentage for the last shot? And how many has he passed up?

---
You must have missed:

More fun facts:

In the playoffs since 2000, Lebron is 5-12 (41%) in clutch shots in the final 24 seconds of the game.

In the same situations, Kobe is 6-21 (28.6%) and Wade is 2-5 (40%)

Since 2000, in the final MINUTE of playoff games, Lebron is 10-20 (50%) in clutch situations. Wade is 3-10 (30%) and Kobe is 10-31 (31%) in the same situation.

Since 2000, overall in the playoffs, Lebron is 70-154 (45.5%) in clutch situations.

Wade is 39-102 (38.2%) and Kobe is 81-203 (39.9%) in the same scenario.

Lebron wins.

I dont have stats for how many times he has assisted or passed in last second situations. It's hard enough to get stats for shots in a certain time period.

tredigs
03-03-2012, 01:35 PM
Most people define clutch shot as the last shot taken with score tie or behind; it's the shot that can determine winning or losing.

Lebron clearly doesn't have problem with the last 5 min of the game, it's the last shot he is having problem with (or problem facing).

As someone would say, if you don't try, you can't fail, right?

Questions are, what is his percentage for the last shot? And how many has he passed up?

---

In a similar vein, I would LOVE to see a stat on how many times Lebron has had the ball in the last seconds with the game tied or behind and his team won the game. Same stat for Kobe, and the other superstars. Who took the last shot being irrelevant.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:36 PM
Kobe shoots like 29% on potential game winning shots. Hmm...maybe a big part of that is since he insists on being the last guy to take the shot...he shoots low percentage shots. Maybe, oh I dunno, contested fallaway jumpers?

You completely missed the whole comment I was trying to convey to you so I will repeat for you.

Lebron is a monster. He can attack the rim whenever he feels like it. He did it almost every game in the Wizards Cavs playoff series to win them that series. If you even insinuate his move in that final second was a shot Kobe would take your sadly mistaken. Kobe likes those shots because thats HIS SHOT. Lebrons final second move is a slash to the basket and converting with contact. Its not a fadeaway jumper. If Lebron had any intention of taking that last shot he wouldnt have been bullshitting around the perimeter waiting to defer. He would have went to the hole and finished the game himself. He fizzles when the game is on the line.

Aust
03-03-2012, 01:37 PM
Watch as all the NBA analysts on ESPN defend Lebron as if their lives are on the line. It seems as though everytime something percieved as negative has something to do with him all the NBA analysts are jumping to his rescue.

DerekRE_3
03-03-2012, 01:37 PM
I'd love to see the game footage of those 21 game winning attempts Kobe has had since 2000. I'd bet a lot of them are low percentage shots. Kobe fans should hope they are, because if they were quality looks than Kobe must be a choker, missing so many easy shots like that.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:39 PM
I am sure ESPN will get the statistic we are all looking for. How many last second situations has Lebron passed up the final shot instead of taking it himself since joining the Miami Heat.

Bringing in stats when he was in Cleveland doesnt support the trend in Miami because its two different teams. He lost his killer instinct since being paired with Wade and Bosh.

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:40 PM
If Lebron had any intention of taking that last shot he wouldnt have been bullshitting around the perimeter waiting to defer.
He wasn't.

Rewatch the final play.

He caught the inbound off a screen and was two steps ahead of the person guarding him (Josh Howard). When he saw that he was a step ahead of his man, he took two dribbles to the hoop.

At which point, Millsap came over to help off of Haslem. If Millsap didn't come over to help, Lebron has a clear line to the hoop with only Gordon Hayward on the far block, unlikely to get over to help.

Millsap DID come over to help, blocking off the path, which allowed for Haslem to be wide open for a jumper.

carruthers32
03-03-2012, 01:40 PM
Lebron = best player in NBA.

x2

jiggin
03-03-2012, 01:43 PM
can't be considered "not clutch" if you never put yourself in the position to take the clutch shot...

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:44 PM
can't be considered "not clutch" if you never put yourself in the position to take the clutch shot...

+1 Unless we are counting clutch assists.

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:46 PM
Michael Jordan:

"You miss 100% of the clutch shots you don't take."

LeBron James

"You don't miss 100% of the clutch shots you let others take."

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:47 PM
Michael Jordan:

"You miss 100% of the clutch shots you don't take."

LeBron James

"You don't miss 100% of the clutch shots you let others take."

+100 lol

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:47 PM
Totally. Jeremy Lin is such an undervalued SUPERSTAR two way player and he gets NO positive media attention!

Lebron meanwhile has average games at best and somehow stat pads enough to average 28/8/7 on 55% shooting (thanx to wade and bosh!) and plays average D and then sucks all 4th quarter and then the media and fans do nothing but PRAISE HIM LEFT AND RIGHT ALL DAY!

Such bs man TOTALLY agreed@!

Your comment ignores the thread.

Point is ESPN analysts always come to LBJ defense while other players get killed.

Given the KING James title ...... you expect a little more. Ya know?

kjoke
03-03-2012, 01:48 PM
Corey I feel sorry for you. You are the only one here putting up stats, yet people still refuse to accept them. Its a shame when people go with gut feelings than the truth in the numbers.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 01:49 PM
Your comment ignores the thread.

Point is ESPN analysts always come to LBJ defense while other players get killed.

Dont you remember the whole Decision? Lebrons entourage layed the ground rules down on how to handle Lebron James media attention. If they want anymore 1 on 1 interviews they needed to follow the rules. They have.

tredigs
03-03-2012, 01:49 PM
LOL your funny. You cant argue that Lebron was better when he was on the Cavs then when he joined the heat. He has taken a backseat way too much since joining Miami.

Definitely. He's clearly a shell of the player he used to be (defense is worse, playmaking is worse and WHERE IS HE IN THESE 4TH QUARTERS HELLO!?!). Such a pathetic failure in the playoffs last year too. He's lucky Wade and Bosh carried him enough to close out the Celtics series and take out Chicago in 5 games. If they did not bail him out we'd be singing a WAY different tune my man!

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:50 PM
Corey I feel sorry for you. You are the only one here putting up stats, yet people still refuse to accept them. Its a shame when people go with gut feelings than the truth in the numbers.
It's the NBA forum, it's expected at this point, unfortunately.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 01:50 PM
Your comment ignores the thread.

Point is ESPN analysts always come to LBJ defense while other players get killed.

Given the KING James title ...... you expect a little more. Ya know?

and your off topic, this thread has nothing to do with espn analysts, who by the way make up probably 2% of all media

Supa
03-03-2012, 01:51 PM
You must have missed:

I dont have stats for how many times he has assisted or passed in last second situations. It's hard enough to get stats for shots in a certain time period.

I guess it depends on how you pick the stat. Apparently, ESPN is reporting:

"You can understand why LeBron James passed up a chance for the game winner. Since joining the Heat he is just 1-9 in the last 24 seconds of the 4th quarter or overtime with a chance to tie or take the lead. What he should have done is pass the ball to Dwyane Wade who is 3-7 in those situations in the last 2 seasons."

---

sb123
03-03-2012, 01:53 PM
Jeremy Lin has one more game winner this year then LeBron.
.
.
.
.
in fact in the last two years, they are tied.
.
.
.
.
Here is the best LeBron stat, 0-2.

NYMetropolitans
03-03-2012, 01:55 PM
eh, the dude had an incredible game...mind you I am a LeBron hater...give him a break. He made the right play in the situation and trusted his teammate to make an open jumper he often makes in any other situation.

Corey
03-03-2012, 01:56 PM
You must have missed:

I dont have stats for how many times he has assisted or passed in last second situations. It's hard enough to get stats for shots in a certain time period.

I guess it depends on how you pick the stat. Apparently, ESPN is reporting:

"You can understand why LeBron James passed up a chance for the game winner. Since joining the Heat he is just 1-9 in the last 24 seconds of the 4th quarter or overtime with a chance to tie or take the lead. What he should have done is pass the ball to Dwyane Wade who is 3-7 in those situations in the last 2 seasons."

---
The stats I posted are aggregated over the span of his career in the playoffs. I'd personally rather use something that paints the whole picture of the player than something from a season and a half.

To each his own.

Master Mind
03-03-2012, 01:59 PM
Jeremy Lin has bigger cojones then LeBron ... and, like, triple the size.

But more importantly, anyone who wants to know how to beat the Heat ,,,, offensive rebounding with your guards.

Stops their break, puts them in a half court set.

Ok coach :eyebrow:

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 02:03 PM
It's the NBA forum, it's expected at this point, unfortunately.

The stats are skewed thats why I am not accepting them. You cant count his accomplishments in Cleveland when arguing his recent shortcomings with the Heat. Its two different timespans. In Cleveland he was the team. In Miami he still hasnt figured out what his role is down the stretch in last second scenarios. It looks like hes not trying to step on anyones toes and he just makes himself look like a coward out there.

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:05 PM
Seriously, this guy should NEVER be compared to MJ again... MJ was cold as ice he hit the game winning shot or at least took them, but Lebron?? This isn't the first time. He did it in Cleveland in the Finals and did it again in Miami again in the finals. Now he even can't take the final shot in the REGULAR SEASON and let Haslem take the winning shot.. :rolleyes:

Some Bulls fans are short-sighted and ignorant. Does anyone remember Michael Jordan passing the ball to: John Paxston, Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, and Toni Kukoc to win big games in the regular season and in Paxston and Kerr's case - the NBA Playoffs/Finals?

I guess Kobe never passes the ball to Derek Fisher or Robert Horry either.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:06 PM
Would Larry Bird refuse to take a a fade away 20 footer with a double coming in order to give the ball to Cedric Maxwell 15 feet from the basket with 2 seconds left in a tied game?

tredigs
03-03-2012, 02:07 PM
Some Bulls fans are short-sighted and ignorant. Does anyone remember Michael Jordan passing the ball to: John Paxston, Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, and Toni Kukoc to win big games in the regular season and in Paxston and Kerr's case - the NBA Playoffs/Finals?

I guess Kobe never passes the ball to Derek Fisher or Robert Horry either.

Yewww get yer revisionist history outta heya yew sonuva!!!

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:08 PM
Would Larry Bird refuse to take a a fade away 20 footer with a double coming in order to give the ball to Cedric Maxwell 15 feet from the basket with 2 seconds left in a tied game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib72ipcfdA

Bird to Mchale for the win.

tredigs
03-03-2012, 02:09 PM
You take the last shot! Period! That is how our media and fans likes it becuz that is how we remember past greats and thats what kobes do so that is how it is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Master Mind
03-03-2012, 02:10 PM
Would Larry Bird refuse to take a a fade away 20 footer with a double coming in order to give the ball to Cedric Maxwell 15 feet from the basket with 2 seconds left in a tied game?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib72ipcfdA

Bird to Mchale for the win.

TheJesus for the win

CubbySwag313
03-03-2012, 02:11 PM
Why is this still being talked about. My god this is getting ridiculous...And the off topic discussions that keep changing left and right is so damn annoying..... I'll be the first person to tell you how much I hate Lebron and what he stands for and love to see him fail......That being said.....The heat were coming off a back to back game (I believe) in a very hostile arena in Utah being down 15 or so in the 3rd and LEBRON himself brought that team back. Do I think he should of took the last shot instead of garbage *** Udonis...yes....but for some reason he didnt. Lebron has always been a drive and dish player when it comes to the closing seconds of a game. Hes always been like this since day one. The only reason he gets chewed out now is because of what he did 2 off seasons ago with the DECISION....During his Cavs days everytime he would drive and dish to close out a game, everyone would praise him for being a selfless player and being a team guy.....This is how its always been and always will be. Im surprised people keep talking about this....You may hate Lebron like I do, but I guarantee you would want him on your team. I sure wish he was on the Bulls thats for sure.

tredigs
03-03-2012, 02:11 PM
Alright I've wasted my energy feeding the trolls here. You kids have fun.

And remember, only Lebron can start forest fires.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:11 PM
LOL YOUR MAKING ME CRY RIGHT NOW. OMG LOL

Dan LeBatard: Hey Lebron its Saturday. Can I tickle the shaft and swallow the gravy?

I knew LeBatard was JOTO when after a Knicks loss last year and STAT had a bad game he was deifying the foul machine Joel Anthony.

Corey
03-03-2012, 02:12 PM
It's the NBA forum, it's expected at this point, unfortunately.

The stats are skewed thats why I am not accepting them. You cant count his accomplishments in Cleveland when arguing his recent shortcomings with the Heat. Its two different timespans. In Cleveland he was the team. In Miami he still hasnt figured out what his role is down the stretch in last second scenarios. It looks like hes not trying to step on anyones toes and he just makes himself look like a coward out there.
They're skewed because they don't back up your side of the argument.

Everything I posted is completely accurate and valid.

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:12 PM
Honestly, people have to understand that when you're on a GREAT team, you forego taking stupid shots and find the open man to win games. This is what Lebron used to do when he HAD to do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtf7kQZC6gw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OEl8uZ3N50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkvTLOhm-TQ

Yet now he can't close?

Haters.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib72ipcfdA

Bird to Mchale for the win.

Are you equating Udonis Haslem as a last second option to Kevin HOF McHale????????????????????

You do understand LeBron's issue is not just he refusal to take it but also who he passed it to.

Notice, I said, Bird to Cornbread Maxwell with no jump shoot. Udonis no jump shot.

If LBJ had kicked it to Mike Miller ... ok, I get it. Not quite Kevin HOF McHale. But, Udonis????

Children, children ..... sheesh.

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:16 PM
Are you equating Udonis Haslem as a last second option to Kevin HOF McHale????????????????????

You do understand LeBron's issue is not just he refusal to take it but also who he passed it to.

Notice, I said, Bird to Cornbread Maxwell with no jump shoot.

Children, children ..... sheesh.

Bird to DJ for the Win

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0vwJlvB-Po

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:17 PM
Bird to DJ for the Win

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0vwJlvB-Po

Another HOFer.

Funny how Bird passes for games winner are to HOF players.

Not Jerry Schitcing.

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:18 PM
Seriously? You think he knew DJ was a hall of famer then? Or are you just a Lebron Hater at all costs?

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:19 PM
You know, if LeBron has dribble penetrated and gotten Bosh and open J. Miller. Chalmers. Even Wade.

No, Udonis Haslem. Dude having a horrid shooting seasons.

Might as well has thrown the alley oop to Joel Anthony.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:20 PM
Seriously? You think he knew DJ was a hall of famer then? Or are you just a Lebron Hater at all costs?

Uh, yeah. When he went to the Celtic he already had a ring. Mutliple All Star Games, 1st Team ALL D.

DJ was a great player from very early on.

You really show your ignorance and lack of historical perspective on that one.

Find me Larry throwing a pass to a guy who should not be shooting the ball with the game on the line.

Dare you to find one.....

Teeboy1487
03-03-2012, 02:21 PM
It must feel good to be Wade since he gets a free pass from losing games. He lost that game imo. Lebron should have took the shot but he saw that he had a wide open teammate. Even Kobe pass to Artest when he was open for a clutch shot and he is the worst shooter ever. Still, does Wade negative plays count?

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cS5uDMErOE

Jordan to Kerr for the win.

Jamiecballer
03-03-2012, 02:23 PM
he had a huge game and made the right pass. it just didn't go in.

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:23 PM
Uh, yeah. When he went to the Celtic he already had a ring.

You really show your ignorance and lack of historical perspective on that one.

Find me Larry throwing a pass to a guy who should not be shooting the ball with the game on the line.

Dare you to find one.....

I'm sure it exists. Because you know what youtube doesn't have? Highlights of players missing. I'm just tired of people like you who constantly get on Lebron for passing the ball when other LEGENDS passed the ball off all the time.

I don't care if it's McHale or DJ. Even if Lebron passes it to Wade everyone starts questioning his legacy. Lebron will never make you happy. Unless he opts out and saves a sorry Celtic franchise. Then he would be the Black Bird right?

king4day
03-03-2012, 02:24 PM
lol a thread was created about this? It was the right decision. All experts say it was the right decision to pass. Anyone who saw it without viewing this through their "I hate Lebron" glasses would know this. Why is this a thread?

YoungOne
03-03-2012, 02:26 PM
Lebron found a wide open teammate for a shot that he would make 9 out of 10 times.

What a terrible player!

not this season, haslems midrange shot is of all season

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:27 PM
Then it's Spoelstra's fault. You don't put a player on the floor who can't hit that shot. Period. Not with the game on the line. Lebron trusted his teammate.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cS5uDMErOE

Jordan to Kerr for the win.

Dead eye shooter. Paxson too. You are proving my point.

Not Udonis freaking Haslem!!!!!!!!!!! You coward!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shot the f*c*ing ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Show me Jordan passing to Pippen for a 20 footer at the buzzer.

sager729
03-03-2012, 02:28 PM
I equate last nights game to if Jordan passed the ball to Horace Grant. Chicago would be so pissed if Jordan made that pass.

Fact is that the facts point to LeBron not wanting to take the big shots at the end of games. If it happened once or twice, then fine I would accept that pass. But it is over and over. He is the best player in the NBA for 47 minutes a game.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:29 PM
Then it's Spoelstra's fault. You don't put a player on the floor who can't hit that shot. Period. Not with the game on the line. Lebron trusted his teammate.

The smartest defense I have heard in 10 pages.

Take out the non-shooters, go Mike Dantoni Offense, put in 2 shooters elbow extended (Miller and Chalmers), two slashers on the baseline (Cole and Wade) and LeBron at the top of the key.

Start the play.

Corey
03-03-2012, 02:31 PM
Lebron found a wide open teammate for a shot that he would make 9 out of 10 times.

What a terrible player!

not this season, haslems midrange shot is of all season
Statistical anomaly.

He's been more than solid from that portion of the court his whole career

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:31 PM
Dead eye shooter. Paxson too. You are proving my point.

Not Udonis freaking Haslem!!!!!!!!!!! You coward!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shot the f*c*ing ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Show me Jordan passing to Pippen for a 20 footer at the buzzer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XlplFLJ_gM

CHANGO
03-03-2012, 02:31 PM
lol a thread was created about this? It was the right decision. All experts say it was the right decision to pass. Anyone who saw it without viewing this through their "I hate Lebron" glasses would know this. Why is this a thread?

Cause is Lebron.

Now imagine if the roles were reversed, Wade being Lebron, Lebron being Wade. Wade leads the 17-point comeback, and his team is infront by two points. LeBron commits the foul on the 3pointer(on Harris), and then the 2 +1 in Harris again. Wade then passes the ball to Haslem and he miss.

What would be the title of this thread?

Lebron costing his team the match!!!!!
That's why Wade is better than Lebron!!!!

It's the new fashion.

TheJesus
03-03-2012, 02:33 PM
I equate last nights game to if Jordan passed the ball to Horace Grant. Chicago would be so pissed if Jordan made that pass.

Fact is that the facts point to LeBron not wanting to take the big shots at the end of games. If it happened once or twice, then fine I would accept that pass. But it is over and over. He is the best player in the NBA for 47 minutes a game.

I'm pretty much done with this conversation. This is like reverse-Tim Tebow syndrome. Hate Lebron at all costs.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XlplFLJ_gM

Jordan did not pas him the ball even ONCE.

No doubles on Pippen ever once.

You are proving my point that LeBron is a coward and not as basketball smart as you say.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:34 PM
Statistical anomaly.

He's been more than solid from that portion of the court his whole career

Not anymore.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 02:34 PM
They're skewed because they don't back up your side of the argument.

Everything I posted is completely accurate and valid.

How does lumping stats when he was the Man and was accepted that he was the team in Cleveland work in arguing why hes being cowardly in Miami after pairing up with 2 superstars?

If you can answer me that then your right. Its two different scenarios.

Ill break it down for you.

Problem: Why does Lebron pass the ball in the final seconds of the game all the time?

Subject: Lebron James decision making in final seconds while member of the Miami Heat.

Hypothesis: He doesnt play with a killer instinct anymore because he rather be second fiddle and defer to other superstars.

Evidence to form conclusion: Lebron James has shot 1 - 9 in clutch situations while playing for the Miami Heat. Lebron James has deferred in many clutch moments since playing for the Miami heat. One being last night in the Jazz. Another being in the All Star game of THIS SEASON. (while being a member of the heat).

Corey's Perspective:

Problem: Why does Lebron pass the ball in the final seconds of the game all the time?

Subject: Lebron James decision making in final seconds while member of the Miami Heat.

Hypothesis: Lebron James is more clutch then said players around the league.

Evidence to form conclusion: Stats from playoff atmosphere settings where he hit game winners during the lifespan of 2000 - Current. Including statistics where he was on the Cavaliers.

My Science teacher would tell me I have a flawed arguement because I am using statistics with a completely different element to argue the pros on said subject.

Using statistics from a team where he was the team surrounded by all role players and lumping them in with a team that is built around 3 superstars and watered down talent around them is completely different.

Its like saying why wont my Tomato Plant grow in the sand? It can grow in the soil and both are on the ground. As long as I water the sand It should very well grow. Doesnt work that way.

Master Mind
03-03-2012, 02:36 PM
I'm just saying :shrug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njvMyzGLdwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eraQmLe99zo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMOnbSB-mM&feature=related

jbeezy
03-03-2012, 02:37 PM
Its because in crunch time he has no balls. So when he has the ball at those times he feels weird and has to pass it to someone else.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:37 PM
I'm pretty much done with this conversation. This is like reverse-Tim Tebow syndrome. Hate Lebron at all costs.

Let me get you a couple of Youtubes which dis-spell your argument, bolster mine, and then cry about it.

So Jordan dribbles, draws doubles and hit dead-eye spot shooters for wins.

Scottie wins a game going one-on-one b/c they won't double him and Jordan is completely out of the play. That is to say Jordan draws the Defense to himself and gives Pippen space to do his thing.

LeBron draws doubles and then passes to the worst shooter on the floor.

Great.

Jonathan2323
03-03-2012, 02:39 PM
The only reason the HEAT were in the game because of LeBrons clutch shots in the 4th. The only way he going to get people off his back is to perform great in the finals and win.

Nobody is playing better than LeBron right now and its not even close.

He made the right play but I some what agree he should have taken that shot.

sb123
03-03-2012, 02:42 PM
The only reason the HEAT were in the game because of LeBrons clutch shots in the 4th. The only way he going to get people off his back is to perform great in the finals and win.

Nobody is playing better than LeBron right now and its not even close.

He made the right play but I some what agree he should have taken that shot.

LeBron is great but he hates the pressure of the transaction.

Like a golfer who can't squeeze that putt on the 18th.

The Greg Norman of Pro Basketball.

Play well when out in front.

Plays well when coming back.

Chokes hard as shaaaat when it is close and time in running down.

Cano4prez
03-03-2012, 02:42 PM
Didn't read through the thread so this might have been said already but if he missed that shot double teamed people would complaining that Haslem was wide open. You guys are pathetic

SwatTeam
03-03-2012, 02:55 PM
Where's Gregg Williams when you need em? Put some bounties up on anyone who makes a Lebron thread. Then Terry Tate the office linebacker nails you on your coffee break for wasting everyone's time.

LakersMaster24
03-03-2012, 03:03 PM
Lebron passes the ball: PSD = "LEBRON IS AFRAID TO TAKE THE LAST SHOT!!!

Lebron takes the shot but misses: PSD = "LEBRON CHOKED AGAIN!!!"

Lebron takes the shot and makes it: PSD = "Who says he is not clutch??"

:laugh2: Classic.

Chi StateOfMind
03-03-2012, 03:10 PM
Lebron passes the ball: PSD = "LEBRON IS AFRAID TO TAKE THE LAST SHOT!!!

Lebron takes the shot but misses: PSD = "LEBRON CHOKED AGAIN!!!"

Lebron takes the shot and makes it: PSD = "Who says he is not clutch??"

:laugh2: Classic.

This. You forgot if he wins a ring= cuz he has Wade and Bosh. No matter what LeBron will always get crap from everyone. Yesterday he made the right play, I just feel he brought them back so finish them. Totally fine with his decision because it was a wide open shot. But you guys cant get upset that he at least didnt take the shot or if the coach didnt draw him up a play.

Chi StateOfMind
03-03-2012, 03:11 PM
Nice sig LakerMaster24.

Hawkeye15
03-03-2012, 03:15 PM
LeBron made 2 tough shots (one of them ridiculous) with under a minute, was double teamed leaving Haslem WIDE OPEN from 17. It was the right basketball play.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Of course it would have been nice to see him take the last shot, but lets be real here, the same trolls in this thread would just be saying its a regular season game :bla:

But to criticize him for making the right basketball play, typical hater rhetoric.

Sadds The Gr8
03-03-2012, 03:19 PM
this surprises people? Lechoke's been doing this since he's joined Miami.

shizzle09
03-03-2012, 03:22 PM
you guys are so petty. PSD gets worse and worse by the days. He gave Haslem a WIDE open shot with nobody within 5 feet of him and you create a thread bashing him for not taking the final shot because you guys want him to take it. Turn your computer off and get a life for real. you guys spend so much time with LBJ on your tongue its hilarious.

shizzle09
03-03-2012, 03:23 PM
LeBron made 2 tough shots (one of them ridiculous) with under a minute, was double teamed leaving Haslem WIDE OPEN from 17. It was the right basketball play.

perfectly said. Only people who "hate" Lebron would even create this thread. He did exactly what your supposed to do when double teamed.

Chi StateOfMind
03-03-2012, 03:27 PM
The LeBron hate is getting old. Its like people only wait for him to mess up and then bash him. I pray the Bulls win it all cuz if Miami wins it, Bulls fans will never hear the end of it. Either way tho, LeBron is by far the best player on the planet.

netsgiantsyanks
03-03-2012, 03:27 PM
the nba forum never ceases to amaze me.

lebron decided that it was best for him to pass to haslem who has a decent jumper and on a good day that shot would be money. **** happens, not everything pans out the way you want it to. haslem missed the shot, they lost, end of story. that doesn't make lebron any lesser of a player, he is the best player in the nba besides kobe. he is a ultimate game changer, he makes any roster a good roster. with cleveland he won 66 games the year before he left. he left and the same roster, just without him, had one of the worst records in the nba. if that doesn't say something, then i don't know what does. he can shoot, he can defend, he can pass, he can take it to the rim, there is nothing this man can't do. and stop trying to compare him to jordan, it's only going to make you think lesser of him, lebron is lebron, michael is michael.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-03-2012, 03:30 PM
Lebron passes the ball: PSD = "LEBRON IS AFRAID TO TAKE THE LAST SHOT!!!

Lebron takes the shot but misses: PSD = "LEBRON CHOKED AGAIN!!!"

Lebron takes the shot and makes it: PSD = "Who says he is not clutch??"

:laugh2: Classic.

This. When your the best, people need to nit pick your tiniest flaws.

Love the sig

t_money25
03-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Another Lebron hate thread...SMH...by am I not surprised?

CHANGO
03-03-2012, 03:40 PM
Lebron passes the ball: PSD = "LEBRON IS AFRAID TO TAKE THE LAST SHOT!!!

Lebron takes the shot but misses: PSD = "LEBRON CHOKED AGAIN!!!"

Lebron takes the shot and makes it: PSD = "Is another Regular Season game, let's talk when he makes that in a playoff game"

:laugh2: Classic.

Correction ;)

:laugh:

t_money25
03-03-2012, 03:43 PM
you guys are so petty. PSD gets worse and worse by the days. He gave Haslem a WIDE open shot with nobody within 5 feet of him and you create a thread bashing him for not taking the final shot because you guys want him to take it. Turn your computer off and get a life for real. you guys spend so much time with LBJ on your tongue its hilarious.

Lol I agree.....if I'm Haslem and Lebron takes that shot, I'm pissed and I let him know that. Lebron made the right play. Any basketball coach will tell you that. The Lebron hate and the serious lack of basketball knowledge in this thread is insane.

swirl54
03-03-2012, 03:43 PM
Really does my LeBron hatin self need to defend his pass? Really? Get off the mans ball sack. Haslem was wide wide open for an easy J it was the right call and a perfect pass. Look it's easy to hate the way the guy acts on and off the court but to question his ability because of a good pass at the right time to an open man who hits those shots all day is wrong.

tr3ymill3r
03-03-2012, 03:43 PM
I don't think anyone is disputing if it was the right play, our gripe is that he wants to be called the KING or compared to Jordan, you can't be the best unless you are going to step up and take those big shots.

waveycrockett
03-03-2012, 03:45 PM
LeBron made the right play. Best player in the league hands down.

monzternipz12
03-03-2012, 03:46 PM
I hate lebron but the guy gets way too much hate. If it wasn't for him they wouldn't even be in the position to win the game. First, the play was poorly drawn out. Second, he made the right play by passing in that situation. He was doubled n the open man is capable of hitting that mid range shot. Also, total double standard for Bron. He takes the shot but misses we label him as a choker. He passes we label him too scared to take the last shot. If it was any other star it wouldn't be that big an issue. As a huge bulls fan even I can admit he gets a lot of hate.

JNA17
03-03-2012, 03:46 PM
I honestly don't blame Lebron for that. He was carrying the team in that 4th quarter and made the correct pass to an wide open free throw line shot player.

...ugh cant believe I'm actually defending this guy -_-.

monzternipz12
03-03-2012, 03:49 PM
I don't think anyone is disputing if it was the right play, our gripe is that he wants to be called the KING or compared to Jordan, you can't be the best unless you are going to step up and take those big shots.

I agree but even MJ passed when needed. Maybe Bron should have taken initiative n told spoelstra to draw up a play that would isolate him better. The heat need better plays in those situations.

shizzle09
03-03-2012, 03:50 PM
finally some posters with some sense these last few pages.

Dade County
03-03-2012, 03:54 PM
Go HEAT... I hope they win it all this year! :clap:

monzternipz12
03-03-2012, 03:54 PM
I think the weakest link for the heat is the coach. Draw up a play that leads Bron into a double team n ur leak out is Haslem??? Wade, miller, chalmers could have been better options. Why even put Haslem in if u have better shooters with obviously the last shot??

swirl54
03-03-2012, 03:54 PM
What he needs to do is take the next step do what the heck you want then tell the haters to f off. Coming from a hater of bron bron I feel it's just a matter of time before he finally gets it and goes for broke everytime no matter what haters and press will say. Seriously get some Kobe blood in ya system.

monzternipz12
03-03-2012, 03:55 PM
I take that back. Spoelstra keep doing what ur doing.

ghettosean
03-03-2012, 04:02 PM
LOL... I'm one of the biggest Lebron haters on this forum but this is getting a little out of control. He passed the ball to an open teammate who missed... I almost think that if Haslem made the shot that we would still be bashing him in here.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 04:05 PM
I think the weakest link for the heat is the coach. Draw up a play that leads Bron into a double team n ur leak out is Haslem??? Wade, miller, chalmers could have been better options. Why even put Haslem in if u have better shooters with obviously the last shot??

This is a typical comment from someone with no knowlege of the heat team or there history. They dont get much more clutch than haslem from 15 feet. He hasnt been great this year, but thats his shot. I personally dont think he knew the ball was coming to him lol, regardless, he missed, next game, we move on. Was it a bad play? no, was it a good play? yes, he just missed a wide open 15 footer. was it the right play? maybe, maybe not. he makes that shot and its all a different story

Pakman
03-03-2012, 04:12 PM
Kobe would have taken the shot. Ice in his veins. Maybe 1 day bron bron....doubt it

GiantsSwaGG
03-03-2012, 04:16 PM
LeBron sucks!











When he's under pressure

PatsSoxKnicks
03-03-2012, 04:17 PM
It's amazing how many people in this thread don't understand basketball at all. Or at least team basketball. Everything has to be one on one apparently. I mean whats the higher % play- Lebron taking a fadeaway jumper over 2 defenders or Haslem taking a wide open jump shot?

Baller1
03-03-2012, 04:22 PM
It's amazing how many people in this thread don't understand basketball at all. Or at least team basketball. Everything has to be one on one apparently. I mean whats the higher % play- Lebron taking a fadeaway jumper over 2 defenders or Haslem taking a wide open jump shot?

But psk, it's Lebron!

basketfan4life
03-03-2012, 04:24 PM
He also averages 7 assists per game. Like a point guard. And he gets many of those assists when defenses try to cheat and begin to collapse on him, just like what was happening on that play.

For better or worse, Lebron just takes what the defense throws at him and plays the final play similar to any other; trying to find the best shot for the team. He doesn't have the mentality where "this shot is MINE!" like some other superstars in the league, and if that ends up in a pass and the teammate misses, then there you have it. He'll take the blame apparently.

And I know short term memory is King, but let's not pretend that Lebron has not taken countless game tying/winning shots though people.

Older video here, and not even close to all of them, but here's some to refresh people's memories a bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk

Still rather see him take that shot last night just being a selfish fan and wanting to have him cap off a RIDICULOUS 4th quarter comeback (that Wade unfortunately ruined), but obviously he doesn't care what you or I or anybody else wants to see. And really why should he.

Those ridiculosly clear turnover game winners on wizards, their fans are probably still hurted, lol at how much this league protected lebron james, of course he would be egomaniac.

PatsSoxKnicks
03-03-2012, 04:25 PM
But psk, it's Lebron!

Yeah, my mistake :laugh2:. Sorry, Lebron sucks and he is the worst basketball player to ever play. Do I get a cookie now?

Baller1
03-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Yeah, my mistake :laugh2:. Sorry, Lebron sucks and he is the worst basketball player to ever play. Do I get a cookie now?

Haha, yeah that's better.

But seriously, no matter what this guy does, he's scrutinized. I feel bad for him in that aspect, quite honestly.

PatsSoxKnicks
03-03-2012, 04:29 PM
Haha, yeah that's better.

But seriously, no matter what this guy does, he's scrutinized. I feel bad for him in that aspect, quite honestly.

Yeah and even if Haslem made that shot, I'm sure people would still be criticizing him. Frankly, I'm not sure that most PSD posters understand that basketball is actually played 5 vs. 5 as opposed to 1 vs. 5.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-03-2012, 04:30 PM
Lebron passes the ball: PSD = "LEBRON IS AFRAID TO TAKE THE LAST SHOT!!!

Lebron takes the shot but misses: PSD = "LEBRON CHOKED AGAIN!!!"

Lebron takes the shot and makes it: PSD = "Who says he is not clutch??"

:laugh2: Classic.


Correction ;)

:laugh:

Lebron passes the ball: PSD = "LEBRON IS AFRAID TO TAKE THE LAST SHOT!!!

Lebron takes the shot but misses: PSD = "LEBRON CHOKED AGAIN!!!"

Lebron takes the shot and makes it: PSD = "Is another Regular Season game, let's talk when he makes that in a finals game 7 to win the ship"


Fixed it for both of you. ;)

monzternipz12
03-03-2012, 04:36 PM
Haslem is clutch?? That's funny. When u have wade on the team u think Haslem is a good option if Bron gets doubled. Wow

Kutchie03
03-03-2012, 04:38 PM
Haslem had a handful of game winners with the HEAT. the guys are confident that he'll hit the open jumper at the buzzer, there's no way you can criticize LeBron for passing to a proven clutch player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njvMyzGLdwU&feature=fvst vs 76ers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMOnbSB-mM vs Pistons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZWKjezEDIs vs Wizards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=eraQmLe99zo vs Nets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypEzvt6fIck go ahead and game winner all in last 45 seconds vs Hornets

CubZwin38
03-03-2012, 04:38 PM
I am not a LBJ fan at all (though I respect his talent and work ethic), but even I think this is getting blown out or proportion. He moved the ball to the open player. That is what you are supposed to do. I dont see a problem. Jordan passed to Paxon. Jordan passed to Kerr. Kobe passed to Fisher. Basketball is a team sport and you are supposed to make the extra pass to the open man. Yes, he could have forced the issue and try to draw the foul, but there was an open man. I dont see what the bfd is here?

THe bfd is Lebron's comments after the game. "I can't win". Just like his comments after K Perk's comments on him. Making everything about him. Continuing to talk like the whole world hates him and crying about everything. Even if the whole world hates him and even if he can't win it just sounds like he's crying all the time. Last night was no different.

basketfan4life
03-03-2012, 04:39 PM
Statistical anomaly.

He's been more than solid from that portion of the court his whole career

are youn an expert of "probability and statistics" ? do you know how to comprehend these stats? it might seem like an anomaly but it gives more view on his last 3 months. You are completely wrong on this one.

CubZwin38
03-03-2012, 04:40 PM
What he needs to do is take the next step do what the heck you want then tell the haters to f off. Coming from a hater of bron bron I feel it's just a matter of time before he finally gets it and goes for broke everytime no matter what haters and press will say. Seriously get some Kobe blood in ya system.

Exactly the point I keep trying to make. But the Lebron lovers can't keep from arguing with the "Lebron is terrible" group enough to see what we're saying. Lebron's biggest problem is not on the court. It's off the court.

toovey107
03-03-2012, 04:42 PM
:laugh2: @ people trying to defend Lebron's clutchness. He's great up until the game is on the line for a last second shot. Doesn't have the killer instinct.

LeBron is 0/13 the last three years (1/17 the last 4) He's 9/52= 17%. (24seconds or less)

That number sucks in case anyone doesn't know/care.

monzternipz12
03-03-2012, 04:43 PM
I never said Haslem is bad. My point is the play drawn up should have had a better 2nd option. I'm not blaming any player. I'm blaming the coach. There are better options on that team after Bron if he gets doubled. I like Haslem n I know he can hit that shot. But as a coach, u need to recognize ur personnel. U have 2 superstars. Ur first two options should be the 2 superstars.

gotoHcarolina52
03-03-2012, 04:46 PM
Haslem had a handful of game winners with the HEAT. the guys are confident that he'll hit the open jumper at the buzzer, there's no way you can criticize LeBron for passing to a proven clutch player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njvMyzGLdwU&feature=fvst vs 76ers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMOnbSB-mM vs Pistons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZWKjezEDIs vs Wizards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=eraQmLe99zo vs Nets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypEzvt6fIck go ahead and game winner all in last 45 seconds vs Hornets

Great post. Haslem has been clutch time and time again. His jumper hasn't been the same this season, but he's still a guy you trust to knock down a 15ft foot jumper when needed, especially if he's wide open.

smith&wesson
03-03-2012, 04:47 PM
i think its pretty simple.. lebron is not a closer.

he is many things. he is great at passing, driving to the net, posting up, finding guys for open looks, great vision, great in game dunker, good shooting, great speed for his size. he can defend positions 1-4. 2 way player, makes players around him better.. he does alot of things great.

he just isnt a closer. big deal.

UPRock
03-03-2012, 04:49 PM
When Skip Bayless is defending LeBron you'll know that he made the right decision, and he did. He found a wide open Haslem that missed the shot, a good mid range shooter that has some mid range clutch shots in his resume. People that says that he made a bad decision by passing the ball to Haslem in the clutch proves that you'll know nothing about the Heat, and probably began watching basketball little while ago. If it wasn't for LeBron they could've lost by double digits, but haters gonna hate.

monzternipz12
03-03-2012, 04:51 PM
I agree he's not a closer... For now... If he gets it n he gets that killer instinct. Totally unstoppable. Even though he's been in the league for this long n still hasn't gotten it, he's still young n u never know. Hes almost the perfect player. Outside of not having that killer instinct, there's no flaw to his game n that sucks coming from a bulls fan.

PinnacleFlash
03-03-2012, 04:51 PM
Lebron just didn't want to hurt his FG%, it's obvious.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 04:52 PM
i think its pretty simple.. lebron is not a closer.

he is many things. he is great at passing, driving to the net, posting up, finding guys for open looks, great vision, great in game dunker, good shooting, great speed for his size. he can defend positions 1-4. 2 way player, makes players around him better.. he does alot of things great.

he just isnt a closer. big deal.

I would agree with you, but i saw the guy single handily close the semis and ECF last season. Is he good at last second game winning shots? no, his record is pretty bad there, but thats ok. He will get over it.

toovey107
03-03-2012, 04:55 PM
I can recall at least two times against the Bulls where he just wrecklessly drove into the lane and threw up some pathetic shot to end the game. If I'm a team I'm laughing at Lebron with the ball with the game on the line. He obviously cannot handle the pressure.

Still have no idea how Wade isn't that guy every time.

mjt20mik
03-03-2012, 04:55 PM
He passed the ball to an open player, who shot it from this sweet spot. Tell me how in the world is that a bad play. Haslem makes those jumpers in his sleep. He just missed that one.

YEDN90
03-03-2012, 04:56 PM
Guy cannot catch a break.

I dont like him or the team, but people need to relax. If Haslem hits the shot, the majority would be slobbing LeBron's knob for being "heads up".

He made the right call.

PS Im a Bulls fan

CubZwin38
03-03-2012, 04:59 PM
Guy cannot catch a break.

I dont like him or the team, but people need to relax. If Haslem hits the shot, the majority would be slobbing LeBron's knob for being "heads up".

He made the right call.

PS Im a Bulls fan

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

toovey107
03-03-2012, 05:01 PM
Haslem should have been called for an illegal screen anyways but I digress. It wasn't even like it was a close range shot either. You cannot pass the ball to Udonis ****ing Haslem for a game winner at the top of the key. Man up.

PinnacleFlash
03-03-2012, 05:03 PM
Yup you Lebron nut-riders are correct, Lebrno made the correct play.

Lets pass it to the guy who airballed his last mid-range shot and had 4 points the entire game, I mean the dude was on fire right? Idiots.

Corey
03-03-2012, 05:06 PM
LeBron made 2 tough shots (one of them ridiculous) with under a minute, was double teamed leaving Haslem WIDE OPEN from 17. It was the right basketball play.

Been saying the same all day.

We avoid using logic here in the NBA forum.

Corey
03-03-2012, 05:07 PM
Yup you Lebron nut-riders are correct, Lebrno made the correct play.

Lets pass it to the guy who airballed his last mid-range shot and had 4 points the entire game, I mean the dude was on fire right? Idiots.

Right, because it's smarter to take a contested jumpshot with Millsap right in his face, and Howard in his back pocket?

THATS the right play to make, huh?

Haslem was wide open, and Lebron hit him. It was the right play.

PinnacleFlash
03-03-2012, 05:08 PM
Right, because it's smarter to take a contested jumpshot with Millsap right in his face, and Howard in his back pocket?

THATS the right play to make, huh?

Haslem was wide open, and Lebron hit him. It was the right play.

Who said he had to take a jump shot? Why couldn't he just attack the basket like Lebron in Cleveland would do? Why couldn't he just split the double?

Even if he was double teamed, he was making and taking shots in the 4th while being doubled anyways so why is this situation any different?

LeBron is scared. Best player in the league? I don't think so.

justinnum1
03-03-2012, 05:10 PM
Who said he had to take a jump shot? Why couldn't he just attack the basket like Lebron in Cleveland would do? Why couldn't he just split the double?

Even if he was double teamed, he was making and taking shots in the 4th while being doubled anyways so why is this situation any different?

LeBron is scared. Best player in the league? I don't think so.

Then you cant be taken seriously.

Corey
03-03-2012, 05:12 PM
LeBron is scared. Best player in the league? I don't think so.

Right, he's definitely not putting up one of the better seasons of all time right now :rolleyes:

PinnacleFlash
03-03-2012, 05:12 PM
Then you cant be taken seriously.

Give me Durant, Kobe, Wade, Howard, and Rose over LeBron, thanks.

PinnacleFlash
03-03-2012, 05:13 PM
Right, he's definitely not putting up one of the better seasons of all time right now :rolleyes:

Based on what? Numbers? 09 and 10 LeBron will always be LeBron's two best seasons.

You can go jerk off to as many Hollinger numbers as you like but if you watch the games you would know that 09 and 10 Lebron are better and always will be.

samus
03-03-2012, 05:13 PM
^ hahaha

poor Lebron shoulda just taken the shot ...

I wouldn't be angry If he missed. Espec. if he was hot and already just had hit two ******** shots

Ill21
03-03-2012, 05:15 PM
LeBron made the right decision.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 05:17 PM
haslem is clutch?? That's funny. When u have wade on the team u think haslem is a good option if bron gets doubled. Wow

+1

Corey
03-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Based on what? Numbers? 09 and 10 LeBron will always be LeBron's two best seasons.

You can go jerk off to as many Hollinger numbers as you like but if you watch the games you would know that 09 and 10 Lebron are better and always will be.

28 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists on 55% shooting overall while playing arguably the best defense at his position.

.345 WS/48, which is unheard of.

.628 TS% and .576 eFG%, which are numbers most centers dont even average.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 05:20 PM
are youn an expert of "probability and statistics" ? do you know how to comprehend these stats? it might seem like an anomaly but it gives more view on his last 3 months. You are completely wrong on this one.

Its an anomaly because it discredits his claim.

PinnacleFlash
03-03-2012, 05:20 PM
28 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists on 55% shooting overall while playing arguably the best defense at his position.

.345 WS/48, which is unheard of.

.628 TS% and .576 eFG%, which are numbers most centers dont even average.

Cool story bro.

Lebron in 2009 and 2010 is still better, like i said, you can jerk off to as many Hollinger numbers as you like, Me? The stat I like is called AWTG, it's called Actually watching the games, maybe you try that stat sometime.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 05:21 PM
i think its pretty simple.. Lebron is not a closer.

He is many things. He is great at passing, driving to the net, posting up, finding guys for open looks, great vision, great in game dunker, good shooting, great speed for his size. He can defend positions 1-4. 2 way player, makes players around him better.. He does alot of things great.

He just isnt a closer. Big deal.

+1

Corey
03-03-2012, 05:21 PM
Its an anomaly because it discredits his claim.
No, it's an anomaly because it's completely out of the realm of normalcy based on his career averages.

Dont put words in my mouth.

Corey
03-03-2012, 05:22 PM
Cool story bro.

Lebron in 2009 and 2010 is still better, like i said, you can jerk off to as many Hollinger numbers as you like, Me? The stat I like is called AWTG, it's called Actually watching the games, maybe you try that stat sometime.

Actually, this year is his best year so far.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 05:23 PM
i can recall at least two times against the bulls where he just wrecklessly drove into the lane and threw up some pathetic shot to end the game. If i'm a team i'm laughing at lebron with the ball with the game on the line. He obviously cannot handle the pressure.

Still have no idea how wade isn't that guy every time.

+1

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-03-2012, 05:24 PM
I can recall at least two times against the Bulls where he just wrecklessly drove into the lane and threw up some pathetic shot to end the game. If I'm a team I'm laughing at Lebron with the ball with the game on the line. He obviously cannot handle the pressure.

Still have no idea how Wade isn't that guy every time.

Because he wasn't clutch in the first three rounds of the playoffs last season or anything...

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 05:25 PM
Been saying the same all day.

We avoid using logic here in the NBA forum.

Your not using logic. I gave you the counter arguement on page 12 and you still havent responded to it. Its skewed statistics that your using.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-03-2012, 05:26 PM
Your not using logic. I gave you the counter arguement on page 12 and you still havent responded to it. Its skewed statistics that your using.

His stats are true. Not really sure how an opinion can be more correct than facts but it looks like you believe that.

samus
03-03-2012, 05:27 PM
Right, because it's smarter to take a contested jumpshot with Millsap right in his face, and Howard in his back pocket?

THATS the right play to make, huh?

Haslem was wide open, and Lebron hit him. It was the right play.

For the last and most crucial play of the game Lebron should of

1. Created own shot
2. Pass to shooter for last shot

i dont thin spo had wrote a play for Haslem to hit the last shot.

A good play in the middle of the game. he successfully set up haslem for near-open shot. last play of game. not the best possesion

Unfortunate for Lebron but he woosed out on the opportunity to hit a dagger.

latinofire21
03-03-2012, 05:27 PM
who said he had to take a jump shot? Why couldn't he just attack the basket like lebron in cleveland would do? Why couldn't he just split the double?

Even if he was double teamed, he was making and taking shots in the 4th while being doubled anyways so why is this situation any different?

lebron is scared. Best player in the league? I don't think so.

+2